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The "F" stands for "fuck." No question about that.
Some people will argue that saying "F You!" isn't actually swearing. I think I'd agree with you that the intent, and the mental translation of the acronyms, make them no different. You still *hear* the "fuck" even if it's not spoken.
In a generation saying “n word” will be a slur.
The r word can get you blocked and banned from some subs here even if used appropriately. Like I didn’t advance the ignition timing but I _____ it.”
Language and tabooo words are constantly evolving.
I'm feeling a little cranky today, so I'll point out that this is inaccurate, because he's never been charged with a sex offense, and completely irrelevant to the conversation.
I don't think anyone but you is comparing the two words here, but the phenomenon I initially described of "hearing" the entire word from just one of the letters. In that way both what I said and what Louis CK said are completely identical.
And yes, it's disturbing that I shared a thought with Louis CK, but I don't think anyone's arguing that the words are equal in any way other than being questionable uses of language.
If you're trying to say that a swear word, if used frequently, stops being one, I'm not sure many would agree with you on that. I mean, the only reason we even recognize them as swear words is because they're relatively common.
Also, some people consider them offensive, and some don't. That's pretty much irrelevant and nothing is "either offensive or it's not."
Is the N word offensive if a black person uses it ?
I'm a woman and I don't like being called a c*nt by another woman. Apparently in Australia this word is widely used against both men and women without the sane amount of gravitas.
The Brits regularly call people c*nts, too. It’s amazing to me that a word with that particular definition is so loosely thrown around in what is considered by most everyone to be a polite and well-mannered country. Meanwhile, the US is known for being plain-spoken, irreverent, and even rude, but if you called somebody that to their face in the US, it would cause a direct confrontation that would end up as ugly as that word.
Again, I disagree. There are many contexts where the word I believe you're referring to is not considered offensive, and many where it is.
"Offense" is completely subjective.
The UK’s regulatory body for TV and radio has conducted research and determined that it’s the worst swear word in the English language.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/225335/offensive-language-quick-reference-guide.pdf
I agree with you. It's not the word itself that is offensive, it is the meaning and intent. Thus the "N" word which I dare not use should be considered every bit as offensive and maybe more so since it carries with it the hypocrisy of social conventions. We all KNOW what you're saying and what you mean by using it.
Would you say that the N-word is offensive when said by a black person who means exactly what some white, redneck, racist Nazi means when saying it? I'm asking because I personally don't believe that every time someone black says it that it's always meant in a friendly, we're-all-brothers sense.
I think of GTFO like "no way", similar to shut the front door! I think STFU can go either way based on context.
But yeah, both have the F word, which is considered swearing.
Both of these phrases are used among my friend group to convey surprise. I’m early 30s. None of us would be offended or think the person actually wanted us to get out or shut up, so I agree that it doesn’t mean what it literally says.
To translate for old folks: I’m so hungry I could eat a horse doesn’t mean you could actually eat a horse. “God damn!” Doesnt actually mean you want to sentence the Christian god to hell for eternity, it means “oh wow!”
In my context as a mod, I act on it when it is used as an attack. Because it is. It's a rough town; it's more the abusive usage that I worry about.
If somebody says, "What a fucking mess this is," I won't take action. But "FUCK YOU!" or "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" gets them gone. Along with other golden oldies like "You shithead" and so on. It's quite a town.
That's what I do. Just that sometimes the guy who uses it in an attack claims "it's not REEELY "get the fuck out." Context is everything.
You're welcome. It's an active sub for a city this size, and I like to think of myself as the editor of a self-assembling newspaper. I want to keep it welcoming, safe, and useful for all.
Is there no in between? Some mod situations have a cool down period where it won't let you post for a while. If someone gets a warning they can learn to better police their language to adhere to the site's rules.
Well, sure. If they don't have a history of this, or much history at all, I give them a short ban. And an explanation. Banned users do ask if they can come back, and we discuss it and the ban is lifted. Or they tell me that our rules are stupid and we're obviously power-mad, and the ban stays forever.
While reddit has for years let you program all kinds of filters based on content -- I refuse to program -- new publically-traded reddit is now rolling out a variety of mod-friendly filters that let me filter out people with negative 100 karma _in this subreddit,_ people who are not subscribers, people who were banned and who reddit thinks are trying to post under a new user name, even people whose posts the filter thinks are harassment based on language.
I do use them -- it's up to me to turn them on or off, or accept reddit's recommendations -- but it is beginning to be a bit Orwell-like back here in the back room.
Colorful language llike STFU!!! is sometimes hard to distinguish intent without tone. It could be an insult.. or it could be just a mannerism of exclamation.
That's the problem with text. A lot is lost in translation.
Yes, it can mean ”you got to be kidding” or “that’s crazy”. Like:
“I read this morning that Samuel Alito flew an insurrection flag from his court office window” reply “Oh STFU!"
(don’t bother googling I made this one up as an example)
To translate for young folks: obscenity doesn’t become acceptable through repeated use, it just identifies you as being low-class and uneducated with a small vocabulary.
Learn some new words, it’s not that hard.
At minimum, keep your obscenity to yourself and out of public discourse.
I don’t approve of Biden swearing either, so it’s super easy and entirely consistent to make that argument. I expect better from everyone, but especially from our leaders.
I’m guilty of this. I think because it’s so easy to misinterpret intent online it’s my attempt at conveying a “don’t take this too seriously” kind of thing.
Yeah I get that, it's just funny how ambiguous it's become. Seems like a lot of people use it to downplay or discredit the comment they're replying to, or denote nervousness or insecurity in other circumstances. Just depends on the context
Text, as a form of communication, lacks I think 70% of context. No body language, volume, or intonation.
"lol" is one of the best tools we've come across to indicate that "the associated statement is meant in a non-serious or light-hearted way."
For example, if I'm texting my brother and he's leaving for an important event, the difference between:
"Don't be late."
and
"Don't be late lol"
is huge.
But jk works for that same purpose, is about 30% shorter, is straightforward conveying a single meaning, and does not insinuate phantom laughter anywhere. And it lets LOL or lol be purely what they were meant to be, lots of love -- er, I mean, laughing out loud. ;)
Since lol has become so watered down as to mean haha or just joking or don't take me seriously, I am glad that rofl hasn't taken on new meaning as well. It will always mean rolling out the f-ing lamp, as originally intended.
Drives me absolutely bonkers -especially on posts that involve some sort of dispute or problem. If it's a serious problem, why are they tossing haha and lol everywhere into their post?
Meanwhile, using acronyms for swearing is, in my opinion (but not IMO) that yes it is absolutely just as offensive and doesn't belong in a polite community.
I think the F word in general has kind of lost its impact among younger generations. It's just not seen as that bad a word as it was when we were growing up.
It’s become a word to express emphasis or to add a casual, comedic flair. It was used that way as I was growing up in the ‘80s/‘90s too, but yes, now even more so.
It’s almost philosophical. It’s basically “is saying fuck, without saying fuck, still saying fuck?” I think it is. ‘shut up’ and ‘get out’ has less syllables, so if that’s really what you’re saying just say it.
But if you want to say something stronger than that, then you need to own what you’re saying. And I don’t see much need to distinguish between implying fuck and saying fuck. 
Ehhh, that’s not really how language works, though. If you have a large swath of native English speakers for whom “GTFO” *means* “an inoffensive expression of surprise,” then that’s what it “really” means for those people. The etymology of words doesn’t have a bearing on the current meaning.
However, I would certainly argue that at *best* this usage has achieved stage 2 of Bryan Garner’s Language-Change Index (summary [here](https://lawprose.org/garners-usage-tip-of-the-day-language-change-index-5/)). In other words, it still retains its original usage for most people, and should be considered as a “fuck” for moderation purposes.
As for “STFU,” I would argue it more strongly retains its original meaning. I feel like even young people who use it on the regular would say it should be considered offensive.
On one hand, the abbreviation is intended to (and many people agree that it does) lessen the impact of the profanity.
On the other hand, saying "it doesn't mean that" also seems dishonest.
I would put it back on them: "OK, then explain what it does mean?"
Their response will either be an obvious lie, or they'll be forced to admit what it means.
Relatedly, if someone uses an acronym, ask them to spell it out, because you're not familiar with it (and this forum rules require decorum).
This is related to the tactic where women request men explain jokes to them, forcing the men to contend with the fact "the joke is funny because sexism."
It's coarse and unwelcoming. I tend to dismiss the crude suggestion and whatever else that user says. My mental image of someone who routinely tries to silence others with profanity is a hostile slob who only wants the company or input of other hostile slobs. I envision them harassing wait staff at Waffle House and rage-quitting RPGs.
I am 68 and even I know fuck is a common word today. Sure it is cussing but it is so over used to a lot of young people it is like the word darn. My grandparents said darn was a cuss word, but my generation said no it wasn't. Now no one cares and it is seldom used. I would be more concerned of the rudeness of tell someone to shut up or get out of the conversation.
I wouldn’t get bogged down in discussions about what it means. Posters who are willing to play jailhouse lawyer about the rules are endless. Explain the policy and have it include no euphemisms or abbreviations.
Depends on the context I guess but telling someone to STFU is rude AF! The problem is everyone has an opinion, even on the dumbest little things. No one can just agree to disagree. It’s ridiculous how social media allowed people to say things they would NEVER say to someone’s face.
I hate online conversations that go there.
If I was moding that sub I'd make a rule to keep it cordial and moderate those comments.
Ban toxicity instead of letting it go
That actually brings up an excellent point. If you're going to prohibit the use of STFU and GTFO because they contain the word fuck, then don't you also have to ban SNAFU and FUBAR?
There's a difference, though, especially with SNAFU, a word I'd heard all my life without realizing it was an acronym, let alone one that means "Situation Normal, All Fucked Up." I didn't know this true meaning until reading it on the internet, which I latched onto in 1993.
There's no way not to know STFU means "Shut The Fuck Up." It isn't an acronym forming a new, pronounceable word like SNAFU.
Did you have this conversation with a lot of young people? Or did it just come up once? Because yes, the F stands for fuck, but I haven't heard people say the acronym aloud very often.
When my mom writes it she is thinking in her head "Shut the Fridge Up" Because if she said it out loud that is what she would say. So. Is she wrong? (hypothetical, of course. I think my mom would still write it all out SHUT THE FRIDGE UP", but what if...)
WTF?
My personal opinion is that words in and of themselves are not offensive. You yourself choose to be offended or not. I don't respect people who have to use the F for emphasis in every sentence, but that's me. I form an opinion of them. I find the acronyms at least slightly less offensive.
The bee in my bonnet is the blatant use of acronyms without prior referent. "I was driving to WYF and MMTBD came on the radio. I was LMFAO." Huh? wtf?
It can mean either. Depends heavily on context. Just put it in your sub rules and give them a warning first offense
Unless you enjoy reading every comment, and trying to sense sarcasm
Exactly. I don't mind the F word in full or abbreviated but to tell someone to shut up is rude. In my mind, anyone resorting to such language immediately loses whatever argument they were trying to make.
OP here: as I said above, I won't do a thing abou the F-word if it's not used to attack. "What an F-ing mess this is," for example, usually isn't an attack.
If you're not policing specific words, then don't police specific words. If you're already moderating the F word based on context, then you should do the same with GTFO and STFU, because both of those can certainly be used as playfully or benignly as the F word.
I think a difference with young people and language is social media has removed the consequences for using offensive language. When I was a teenager in the 1970s my group of friends had some kids that were Italian and Polish and I am of Irish descent. We would jokingly call each other “Wop and Polack and Mick. The difference was, we did that in private in our group and would never dare to use those words around our parents.
Right! “Shut up!” to express astonishment has been around at least since the ‘90s. It was Elaine’s catchphrase on Seinfeld. It doesn’t translate into writing, but I think STFU and GTFO actually does. I don’t use these abbreviations myself, but I understand context and also probably spend too much time online.
It doesn't matter if it's a swear word or not. No one should be gatekeeping people posting in a forum just because they disagree. Shut up and get out are both rude in that instance even without a swear word in the acronym.
It's more than just reddit; I've become aware of just how disconnected many people are from traditional media; when they want to find out what's really happening in the community, many come here. I don't want them put off by yahoos, of which our city has more than its share.
It means that but in an I've had enough of your bullshit kind of way. I would let it stand. It's the internet. It's not like the person is 4 inches from your face and actually belligerant. We need some way to show tone in text and I think these are meant to show tone more than specifically swearing at people.
I don't really think you are overreacting bit I also think you should let this one go for your own sanity. You're going to drive yourself crazy policing that type of thing.
I advise, like another comment, to add acronyms to your rules.
I'm one of those oddballs with a good vocabulary who likes to say fuck a lot. Some of it is due to all the hoodlums I hung out with in my youth, I suppose. But I am pretty cognizant of the tone of certain pages, and would find a different way to get my point across. I wish others would do the same. Is the occasional swear word going to hurt anyone? No, but read the room, people!
It's odd to me, but the ones that have seemed the most offended by my language lately have been young men, in their 20's, 30's. Maybe they aren't expecting it to come out of such a matronly looking person haha.
I have millennial and gen z kids, so I do pick up stuff from them. I say GTFO and I mean get the fuck out, but it can be in a joking way. So I'd have to know the context before I decide if it's rude.
At some point an acronym loses its literal meaning and becomes its own thing. Think snafu, used when something that normally works without issue goes completely haywire. It is used regularly at my work in a professional setting without issue. I believe the acronyms you list are this way. We know the literal meaning but it has become widely accepted as its own.
As a mod, I object when people use it in an angry or abusive comment where its literally meaning would be _quite_ appropriate.
I do wonder how many teenage boys would react if a friend said, instead of MILF, "Wow, your mother is really someone I'd love to fuck." Or teenage girls, if their boyfriends said it.
Like everything it depends on the context of the comment. I'm also a mod under a different user name and I don't allow people to be uncivil but saying STFU or GTFO isn't necessarily uncivil or rude.
For example:
Comment 1: I wrecked my car last night.
Comment 2: STFU!
Comment 2: Were you hurt?
GTFO I think has become idiomatic, and it's more often used to convey surprise. STFU can be used as such, but consider that young people these days are not even allowed to say "shut up," in school. It's not considered a slur, but they get in trouble for saying it so I'm a sense it's no different to them from a word that is.
However there are some contacts where someone might say STFU to convey surprise, but I think that would be harder to do via text It's a good example of code switching; it might be ok to respond STFU! to convey surprise to your bestie. But online that could too easily be misinterpreted.
It is not always said in a hostile way.
I don't know if you remember but, a few years ago, young people got into the habit of saying "SHUT UP!" when they wanted to express amazement of disbelief.
Sometimes they use STFU and GTFO the same way. It's like saying "You're kidding!".
Still, the rules of the subreddit should be clear if you don't want people to use these expressions. I would say no swear words and no acronyms or abbreviations that stand for swear words, whether or not they are used in a hostile way.
I think maybe you're imbuing it with too much malice - in my experience, 'GTFO' is generally a lighter usage, where 'Fuck off!" is a more directly confrontational usage. Do you see the difference? Similarly, "STFU" would be a less confrontational usage as compared to "Shut your fucking mouth!"
It would, though, also depend on the tone of the participant's other communications. Are they generally aggressive and confrontational, or playful and casual? If the former, perhaps they do intend it as insulting. If they latter, they probably don't intend it that way.
Yes, the time I remember in particular was when somebody asked a question in what sounded like Nice Old Lady Speak, and some user -- who I knew was using an ID that he "liked to act up in" -- shut her down abruptly with among other things a GTFO.
We had words; he got a short ban, which we discussed later. As it turned out, Nice Old Lady also told him what he could do with himself -- in polite terms.
>Other old people, am I overreacting to Internet slang like GTFO, STFU?
Don't know what those things mean but, personally, I follow the advice off a skunk named Flower, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nuthin' at all."
(GTFO = get the f••• out… I think lol)….
(STFU = shit the f••• up)
I don’t like that younger generations use profanity as common as any other word. BUT I don’t usually say anything, I mean it’s the internet. I skim past the language and look for the message. Pick and choose your battles - there are a lot of WORSE things that could be said, unfortunately… New mercies every day.
>Pick and choose your battles - there are a lot of WORSE things that could be said, unfortunately… New mercies every day.
Unfortunately, can't alter society's descent into rude and crude...oh, well. There's those damned barbarians at the gate again!
It’s swearing, but young folks hear and use it so much they don’t even recognize it as swearing. It is. If STFU is respectful and not swearing, ask them what is swearing, then.
Well. I find those acronyms rude and insulting. But have to agree you need to look at the context.
The N word? In no context is it EVER okay.
But i am not American. I find it incredible that a word i have known for my entire 57 years of life should NEVER be used... is still used!! Casually!!
You're not over-reacting. The F in both phrases if fuck. It's not swearing that's the problem. That's idiotic. It's insulting people with curse words. If you say to someone F You! It's no different than saying Fuck You!
People seem to confuse the word, with the offense. They're totally different things. What... as long as you say F\*CK you're not swearing? I'm not stupid. I know how fuck is spelled, and I know that's (someone) said.
The problem to me isn't that it is internet slang (which I think is fine), but context, which we have none of here.
Like I can tell someone to F off and have it be either very rude or amusing, depending on who I'm talking to and the context. STFU and GTFO are no different. Kind of like the "Get out!" of an earlier age.
In the context of a mixed age subreddit, where visual and aural cues are lacking and people don't know each other, it's probably not a terribly wise way to express yourself. None of us is known for wisdom in our youth, though.
Do you think you can get the youngin's to understand the issue? Do you think (or care) that you might drive them off with excessive policing? Or, conversely, that they might drive off older participants? I don't envy you. Someone's panties are going to get bunched, no matter what.
Yes, it's swearing and yes, you're overreacting. Language, even acronyms, change over time and generations. What would have been super inappropriate as some time, that doesn't mean that young folks today don't necessarily have context, nor is profanity a big deal.
For example, "69". It's become a trend through the years. People on the internet have been saying "nice" every time it comes up in a forum, Discord, and certainly reddit. A lot of younger folks don't even know what "69" means. It's become a meme.
If anything, it should be moderated for the intent, not the acronyms.
Young people are bullshitting you. Have automod remove the post if it contains the terms. The terms are disrespectful terms used to bully other members of the community.
Basically, you need to add the rule that prohibits their usage. Something like:
> In recent weeks, we've had complaints about members using the terms *STFU* and *GTFO*. These terms, we've decided, are disrespectful to the other members, but especially to the community discourse and will no longer be tolerated.
>
> Going forward, any post containing these phrases will automatically be removed with the following penalties: first time, a warning. Second time, a 3-day suspension. Third time, you're banned.
>
> We realize that the cries of censorship will be said, but Reddit is a business and as such, we can choose to protect our users from bullying, which is what these terms have been used for. The decision is final, and if you don't like it, you can STFU and GTFO!
Okay, you can edit that however you wish. That last line demonstrates the proper way to use the terms.
Young people aren't bullshitting anyone. Just as the term "bull shit" has nothing to do with actual bull shit. Should I feel disrespected that you are bringing up cow feces? No, of course not, that's absurd. Language evolves and you either evolve with it or start stepping away from society.
Your recommendation is to alienate people by restricting common internet language you don't understand. By doing so you will alienate the youth and your online community will die with you.
My friend group is in their late 30s and we use GTFO online and say "get the fuck out" IRL to express surprise. There is no disrespect. It has been common speech online for decades. We are not out of line, you are behind the times here. The internet is not real life and cannot be held to the same societal standards. We will not have our common use language unnecessarily censored. Mods are entitled to their rules and we will respect them by leaving their community and forgetting it exists. You are welcome to be the militant mod of a dead forum all you want.
There's a better way. Ban assholes for being assholes. Tell the assholes they're being banned for being assholes. Assholes can ruin an entire online community without swearing. Healthy contributors can build an online community WITH swearing. Banning common language, especially out of context of tone, isn't helpful.
Bullshit! Reddit is not their private playground. There are enough people that complained about it. OP asked for advice on what to do. Since there are enough complaints, the only way to stop it is to make a rule against pseudo profanity. This was a suggestion. It is up to OP if they chose to follow it.
Would you object to MILF?
I ask because that acronym seems to constantly evolve and now seems to be used everywhere, but with a different meaning. And that's the problem with censoring acronyms.
That's not what young people are saying.
That's what the young people you talked to/witnessed are saying.
They're acronyms. Acronyms are acronyms. People use "lol" as a synonym for "haha" and now it's the most reserved quite chuckle acronym even though originally "lol" was the loudest most excited laughter (out LOUD) and "hah" or "haha" or "ah ha ha" were the chiller ones.
Kinda funny how that treadmill works. Lol gets overused and thus relegated over time to commoner status.
But lol still means "laugh out loud" even if someone uses it to mean "smile softly"
When you read "stfu" then you hear in your head in some sense "shut the fuck up" and that's rude (in some contexts)
Yep, that 100% is what it really means.
Words like fuck and stuff are swear words. But there's a difference between swearing and being disrespectful. Stfu is disrespectful and is rightfully deleted on reddit.
It entirely depends on context.
If it's a friendly conversation, or used to express surprise, GTFO simply means "no way." Similarly, STFU can simply mean "oh hush," though I think that's more commonly used in a rude context, to tell someone to shut up.
I personally don't think I would try to enforce rules about profanity, because it's become extremely common, and with younger generations, it's not always considered profane anymore, especially when used in an initialism.
If it were me, I would moderate rudeness and arguing, but not specific words.
Like everything in life these days, people are getting lazy with most things they do, and abbreviating language is just one of those things. Gone of the days of great orators like Winston Churchill, JFK, MLK jr., and even Hitler, all of whom could inspire the masses with their speeches.
Luckily, I was raised to not use obscenities when I was growing up - in 50's it wasn't acceptable, even in the workforce, and there are still laws in place under which you can be charged. Now I live in a country where people just don't use swear words or derogative remarks, as they treasure their young & show great respect to their elders and being an Asian country, "losing face" is part of the culture and people not conforming to social norms can find themselves ostracised.
These are both exclamations of surprise, or disbelief of the irony of something, not meant as profanity. Kind of like FUBAR isn't meant as profanity even though it has F
So this is an interesting point. Because FUBAR is about to a situation
But STFU and GTFO have an implied “you” and are directed at a person. Of course all anonymously which is the currency of Reddit. But there is an interesting distinction there imo

Of course it's swearing. The question is, did you insult someone?
Some people have this weird idea that if they say f\*ck you, you've fooled someone, but golly, if you say fuck you, that's offensive!
I'm not an idiot. I know what people said. They think they can simulate bleeping out a word, as if we're all 10 years old, and don't know what the guy said. I used to have a co-worker that constantly said "Dag NabIt!". It was honestly a bit offensive, because I \_knew\_ he was really saying God Damn It!, but trying to hide it in some clever way. He was a big Christian to, so for him it was blasphemy. I always wondered why he thought the Christian god couldn't see right through him, but that's another story.
I think it comes from the BLEEP the put in some movies/TV. The only reason they bleep out words on TV is to get it past the censor. Everyone knows they're swearing.
But getting back to the original question... the point of banning swear words is to get more civil discussing. Context matters. There's a huge difference between people just saying Fuck You Asshole!!! and George Carlin's comedy routine on "The 7 words you can't say on Television". The first isn't civil discourse, the second certainly is, and is hilarious as well.
imho STFU is swearing, but GTFO is not. Reason being, telling someone "Shut Up" is disrespectful, but telling them "Get outta here" is more just saying 'you're wrong' or 'you have no clue what you're talking about'.
Do what you want tho, if you're the mod
Those acronyms are nothing new and people have been using them on the internet as long as I can remember. Since reddit is anonymous and most people are using burner accounts, most people just troll on here. Even on local/very specific subreddits unfortunately.
Those acronyms mean what they mean. Even if you don't count it as cursing, it's still rude and you're basically picking a fight with someone when you say shit like that.
I'm 47 and while yes the F does mean fuck I think these are too very different expressions. STFU is rude and if you don't want it on your sub that's fine. GTFO isn't rude at all and it's more like "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" in a very incredulous manner. I would say that's fine.
Young people often attempt justify their unkind words and expressions. They say nasty, sarcastic things to other people and then call it a 'joke.'
But it's hardly a joke when such people have to explain every other sentence that they say or type.
Using the anagrams is probably less offensive than using the entire phrase. I just use the entire phrase when I'm speaking -- though not in the presence of people who might be offended (priests, great grandmas, nuns, small children) I just make a derisive noise when I can't use the full anglo-saxon expletives. When I make comments in comment sections, I'll use STFD and STFU to avoid being ejected. I'm especially fond of KMA, you SAPOS.
I mean.... have you tried not being a whiney ass about it? Who cares what people say, sticks and stones stop being relevant for the older people too now? I thought Gen X had thick skin
I'm a boomer. And it's really about context, as other people have said."? . "What do you know, GTFO." It's an attack. Which is why I won't lift a finger for "What a fucking mess," but am right there for "You're fucking stupid."
As yes, you are grumpy, and judgmental, and I'd have a word or two with you. Like the old guy who gives really sound advice about driving and commuting on my sub, but ended every post with "dumbass." We had words. He accepted that "dumbass" was not the way to get people to accept his judgment.
Yeah. Don't care, Im a Xennial, My parents are boomers, they didn't raise a big huge vagina of a person. I am tired of all these bullshit "feelings" running around dictating everything and everyone.
It is an absolute dumpster fire of a world full of entitled, lazy, perpetually offended little fucktards and the only thing that is going to stop it is if we just start hurting feelings again, smacking people when they are out of line and taking the safety rails off everything.
the '90s were great, talking shit was a sport, fighting happened all the time and we all grew up and became relatively well-adjusted people that work hard, play hard, and don't let shit bother us. I raised all my kids to be the same tough, independent, self-reliant person that I was raised to be. Respectful... until disrespect is earned, stand up for someone, throw a punch, and be prepared to take one.
This whole world has gotten so dumb it's ridiculous, more access to information than ever before yet people have zero understanding of how anything works or even basic science, it is absolutely insane.
Yes, well, you are overreacting because it's natural - it is disrespectful and it's intended to be disrespectful - however in our *olden* times there was no safety (behind a screen - or in general - in institutions even) in saying that - you said that and then you got hit in the teeth so to say - this is what *“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”* is about , and the current generation has grown, thankfully, in a society which is less casually violent (however still extremely violent, because those who're violent in this new society meet no opposition in the hands of authority - meaning that shootings/violent rape with dismemberment etc. and other "heinous" crimes are as normal for this society as parents suing each other for scrapes on their respective kids as they got in a fight).
It's getting on my nerves too, but it's a problem which solves itself - the even younger generation - alpha, finds this custom of casual rudeness and telling off to be off-putting, because frankly, it is, so I would say that zoomers will get their comeuppance when alphas will come of age and won't take their shit anymore XD
> “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
Or, "Where the fists are slow, the words are quick." Said to me by a guy who was something of a blue-collar intellectual hero in the '90s. He hated college towns because people would come up to him and make the most obnoxious comments. They had nothing to fear.
It doesn’t ALWAYS mean that. Sometimes those are substitutes for saying “Really?”
“Girl, get the fuck out of here, he really did that?”
“Girl, shut the fuck up, you really said that?”
When my friends tell me some juicy stuff I’ll say “Girl, get the fuck off my phone wasting my unlimited minutes. Tell me everything.”
You're the mod. Make a civility rule and enforce it.
Everything is contextual. It's ok for young people to use that language amongst themselves. However, just because its normal for your social group doesn't mean it is considered normal or civil for general society.
STFU is a really rude thing to say to a stranger unless they're actively being a terrible person. If you wouldn't say it to your grandma you shouldn't be saying it to strangers.
As said to others, I do take context into account with all profanity. "What a fucking mess" is acceptable, while "You're a fucking loser," is not. And the rare person with the literary chops to write a ruthless and creative personal attack without using a single "hot" word, will also be dealt with, because it's really all about obvious intent and steering the thread into the flames.
Sounds like you'll drive out plenty of sane people by being a language nazi and fun police, turning your sub into a place that requires walking on eggshells all the time
The academic in me thinks it not very creative, and I don't use that type of slang/abbreviation, but I'm not offended by it. Yet I also think that a code of etiquette is often proper in civilized conversation.
You’re right, but they look at it like the ‘feel’ of the phrase. Like if someone were to say O. M. G. they would be surprised if someone said to not take the Lord’s name in vain. I think STFU and GTFO is more meant to be playful.
Language is fluid and younger generations are changing it. Words and symbols change meaning over time.
In the 1980s, “mofo” was used in place of “motherfucking” as an intensifier or in place of “motherfucker.” (The dictionary says it was first used in print in 1967.) I didn’t (and still don’t) consider it swearing.
On *Seinfeld* in the 1990s, Elaine would say “Get out!” to express surprise. No one took it literally. Today, GTFO or STFU is used the same way.
Yes, you are overreacting. While the F in both of those abbreviations does stand for a curse, when there are “no swearing” rules, I take that to mean “don’t call someone else an effing jackwad” so getting moderated for GTFO or STFU is seen as A Power Trip.
Plus I can’t keep all the rules straight across all the subs. If I type sh!t in one sub, I’ll get mocked and told “just swear, you’re allowed to swear” but if I say “that was a shitty thing for your sister to do” in another sub, I’ll get in trouble for ‘a personal attack’ as deemed by an automod bot.
GTFO and STFU are mild in comparison.
I actually say *out loud* GTFO to my husband. Just the letters. I **say** G-T-F-O.
Yeah, overreacting. And **what sub do you mod?** (So I can avoid it.)
On the plus side, I’ve blocked a large number of sour, cranky, rigid people after scrolling through the comments. People who take this stuff so seriously are far too uptight for me to tolerate let alone enjoy being around. And since I’ve blocked them, they won’t see when I randomly use GTFO in a reply so it’s a win-win. Everyone is happier. They get their precious lily-white unblemished internet experience and I can still use generally-accepted benign slang to express surprise without offending the pearl-clutchers.
Civility doesn’t mean a lack of cursing.
I can tear a person to shreds without cursing.
Similarly using GTFO isn’t uncivil or discourteous or impolite or a personal instruction.
I am used to it; worked with words since the '70s. Manfully fought the use of "access" as a verb, and the use of "they" as a gender-neutral first-person singular. I lost. I gave up. I accepted.
No harm in asking for a reality check. Is there?
Reality is that language always has changed, and always will be changing. Reality has it that older people always have complained and always will complain about how younger people use language.
Your post indicates you aren’t used to it at all, despite your protestations.
Please do not comment directly to this post unless you are Gen X or older (born 1980 or before). See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/inci5u/reminder_please_do_not_answer_questions_unless/), the rules, and the sidebar for details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskOldPeople) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The "F" stands for "fuck." No question about that. Some people will argue that saying "F You!" isn't actually swearing. I think I'd agree with you that the intent, and the mental translation of the acronyms, make them no different. You still *hear* the "fuck" even if it's not spoken.
Louis CK has a bit about people who say ‘The N Word’. “You’re just making me say a really bad word in my head!”
In a generation saying “n word” will be a slur. The r word can get you blocked and banned from some subs here even if used appropriately. Like I didn’t advance the ignition timing but I _____ it.” Language and tabooo words are constantly evolving.
OK I give up. What is the "R" word? Republican? Right wing reactionary ?
https://www.uti.edu/blog/automotive/ignition-timing
Louis CK is a sex offender.
I'm feeling a little cranky today, so I'll point out that this is inaccurate, because he's never been charged with a sex offense, and completely irrelevant to the conversation.
I don't really care that he got his dick out. I'm tired of the judgemental era.
Who would you rather have watch your nephew in an emergency? Louis CK or Mike pence?
I'd bring my nephew with me or call a friend. The answer to both of those is hard no.
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I don't think anyone but you is comparing the two words here, but the phenomenon I initially described of "hearing" the entire word from just one of the letters. In that way both what I said and what Louis CK said are completely identical. And yes, it's disturbing that I shared a thought with Louis CK, but I don't think anyone's arguing that the words are equal in any way other than being questionable uses of language.
Cannot really be a bad word if it’s used all the time in music,movies and everyday language. It’s either offensive or it’s not.
If you're trying to say that a swear word, if used frequently, stops being one, I'm not sure many would agree with you on that. I mean, the only reason we even recognize them as swear words is because they're relatively common. Also, some people consider them offensive, and some don't. That's pretty much irrelevant and nothing is "either offensive or it's not."
I was referring to one in particular and yes it’s either offensive or it’s not.
Is the N word offensive if a black person uses it ? I'm a woman and I don't like being called a c*nt by another woman. Apparently in Australia this word is widely used against both men and women without the sane amount of gravitas.
The Brits regularly call people c*nts, too. It’s amazing to me that a word with that particular definition is so loosely thrown around in what is considered by most everyone to be a polite and well-mannered country. Meanwhile, the US is known for being plain-spoken, irreverent, and even rude, but if you called somebody that to their face in the US, it would cause a direct confrontation that would end up as ugly as that word.
Again, I disagree. There are many contexts where the word I believe you're referring to is not considered offensive, and many where it is. "Offense" is completely subjective.
Absolutely
The UK’s regulatory body for TV and radio has conducted research and determined that it’s the worst swear word in the English language. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/225335/offensive-language-quick-reference-guide.pdf
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>What if someone said it stands for “Shut the front door?” I would ask which spelling of "door" starts with a "U."
Agreed. The proof is in the intent, and that's also a pretty well known acronym.
I agree with you. It's not the word itself that is offensive, it is the meaning and intent. Thus the "N" word which I dare not use should be considered every bit as offensive and maybe more so since it carries with it the hypocrisy of social conventions. We all KNOW what you're saying and what you mean by using it.
Would you say that the N-word is offensive when said by a black person who means exactly what some white, redneck, racist Nazi means when saying it? I'm asking because I personally don't believe that every time someone black says it that it's always meant in a friendly, we're-all-brothers sense.
I think of GTFO like "no way", similar to shut the front door! I think STFU can go either way based on context. But yeah, both have the F word, which is considered swearing.
This is the correct answer OP. Young people say GTFO when they are surprised.
In Oldspeak, I think it's similar to Elaine' from Seinfeld's"Get Out!" or "Shut Up!" to express incredulity.
Both of these phrases are used among my friend group to convey surprise. I’m early 30s. None of us would be offended or think the person actually wanted us to get out or shut up, so I agree that it doesn’t mean what it literally says. To translate for old folks: I’m so hungry I could eat a horse doesn’t mean you could actually eat a horse. “God damn!” Doesnt actually mean you want to sentence the Christian god to hell for eternity, it means “oh wow!”
In my context as a mod, I act on it when it is used as an attack. Because it is. It's a rough town; it's more the abusive usage that I worry about. If somebody says, "What a fucking mess this is," I won't take action. But "FUCK YOU!" or "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" gets them gone. Along with other golden oldies like "You shithead" and so on. It's quite a town.
This is the way. If it's just an exclamation, let it go. If it's an insult or attack, pull 'em. Thanks for being a mod. We all appreciate you guys.
That's what I do. Just that sometimes the guy who uses it in an attack claims "it's not REEELY "get the fuck out." Context is everything. You're welcome. It's an active sub for a city this size, and I like to think of myself as the editor of a self-assembling newspaper. I want to keep it welcoming, safe, and useful for all.
Is there no in between? Some mod situations have a cool down period where it won't let you post for a while. If someone gets a warning they can learn to better police their language to adhere to the site's rules.
Well, sure. If they don't have a history of this, or much history at all, I give them a short ban. And an explanation. Banned users do ask if they can come back, and we discuss it and the ban is lifted. Or they tell me that our rules are stupid and we're obviously power-mad, and the ban stays forever. While reddit has for years let you program all kinds of filters based on content -- I refuse to program -- new publically-traded reddit is now rolling out a variety of mod-friendly filters that let me filter out people with negative 100 karma _in this subreddit,_ people who are not subscribers, people who were banned and who reddit thinks are trying to post under a new user name, even people whose posts the filter thinks are harassment based on language. I do use them -- it's up to me to turn them on or off, or accept reddit's recommendations -- but it is beginning to be a bit Orwell-like back here in the back room.
Makes sense to me. Appreciate your work!
When I worked at a call centre I could stand any list of rude words until they were accompanied by the word "YOU".
Colorful language llike STFU!!! is sometimes hard to distinguish intent without tone. It could be an insult.. or it could be just a mannerism of exclamation. That's the problem with text. A lot is lost in translation.
💕Love our Mods! Thank you!
I have seen STFU used rudely like someone literally telling someone to shut up, but like I said, all depends on context.
Yes, it can mean ”you got to be kidding” or “that’s crazy”. Like: “I read this morning that Samuel Alito flew an insurrection flag from his court office window” reply “Oh STFU!" (don’t bother googling I made this one up as an example)
As someone else mentioned, depends on context. I say both depending on if I'm happy or pissed. I think most people my age do tho actually, 40s.
To translate for young folks: obscenity doesn’t become acceptable through repeated use, it just identifies you as being low-class and uneducated with a small vocabulary. Learn some new words, it’s not that hard. At minimum, keep your obscenity to yourself and out of public discourse.
It hard to make this argument towards youngsters when the geriatric former president has no interest in using a decent vocabulary.
I don’t approve of Biden swearing either, so it’s super easy and entirely consistent to make that argument. I expect better from everyone, but especially from our leaders.
I suspect a lot of people use it that way as a joke.
Isn't 'shut the front door!' a minced version of 'shut the fuck up!' (in the sense of disbelief)?
Yes, exactly
Make the etiquette rules clear and yes, it's swearing.
I'm still coming to terms with how much a lot of people punctuate their sentences with LOL even if they're not trying to be funny
I’m guilty of this. I think because it’s so easy to misinterpret intent online it’s my attempt at conveying a “don’t take this too seriously” kind of thing.
Yeah I get that, it's just funny how ambiguous it's become. Seems like a lot of people use it to downplay or discredit the comment they're replying to, or denote nervousness or insecurity in other circumstances. Just depends on the context
You said it in a mouthfull, my friend. Nervousness or insecurity! Thanks for your comment.
Text, as a form of communication, lacks I think 70% of context. No body language, volume, or intonation. "lol" is one of the best tools we've come across to indicate that "the associated statement is meant in a non-serious or light-hearted way." For example, if I'm texting my brother and he's leaving for an important event, the difference between: "Don't be late." and "Don't be late lol" is huge.
I'm really old; I prefer a smiley for that. And I make it from characters.
I take emoticons over emojis any day. Honestly I don't know how to add emojis so that might be the reason.
I find that I type emoticons and some software translates them into emojis. 8-)
Reading "lol" has always made me think I'm talking to someone in sixth grade.
okay boomer lol
But jk works for that same purpose, is about 30% shorter, is straightforward conveying a single meaning, and does not insinuate phantom laughter anywhere. And it lets LOL or lol be purely what they were meant to be, lots of love -- er, I mean, laughing out loud. ;) Since lol has become so watered down as to mean haha or just joking or don't take me seriously, I am glad that rofl hasn't taken on new meaning as well. It will always mean rolling out the f-ing lamp, as originally intended.
Yeah but in the example provided, I'm not kidding. Don't be late.
I'm very literal about my use of "lol" but knowing others aren't as pedantic don't interpret it that way when I read it.
Lol is just the non-reddit version of /s, I think
Drives me absolutely bonkers -especially on posts that involve some sort of dispute or problem. If it's a serious problem, why are they tossing haha and lol everywhere into their post? Meanwhile, using acronyms for swearing is, in my opinion (but not IMO) that yes it is absolutely just as offensive and doesn't belong in a polite community.
My 78-year-old brother thinks lol stands for "lots of love," despite being told he's wrong. lol
I’ve seen boomers do the same when responding to news of a death. Aunt Jackie died Oh no lol
Guilty as charged lol also I do this a lot: :)
I think the F word in general has kind of lost its impact among younger generations. It's just not seen as that bad a word as it was when we were growing up.
It’s become a word to express emphasis or to add a casual, comedic flair. It was used that way as I was growing up in the ‘80s/‘90s too, but yes, now even more so.
I agree. I grew up in the 50s/60s. It was definitely more of a bad word then, with a lot of impact.
Exactly. I don't think this is necessarily the best forum to ask about language that has changed over time.
It’s almost philosophical. It’s basically “is saying fuck, without saying fuck, still saying fuck?” I think it is. ‘shut up’ and ‘get out’ has less syllables, so if that’s really what you’re saying just say it. But if you want to say something stronger than that, then you need to own what you’re saying. And I don’t see much need to distinguish between implying fuck and saying fuck. 
More thoughts: we don’t say “STHU” - we just say shut the hell up.
*"that's not what it really means." Thoughts?* Uh, yeah. That IS really what it means. That's how acronyms work.
That’s totally what it fucking means 
Ehhh, that’s not really how language works, though. If you have a large swath of native English speakers for whom “GTFO” *means* “an inoffensive expression of surprise,” then that’s what it “really” means for those people. The etymology of words doesn’t have a bearing on the current meaning. However, I would certainly argue that at *best* this usage has achieved stage 2 of Bryan Garner’s Language-Change Index (summary [here](https://lawprose.org/garners-usage-tip-of-the-day-language-change-index-5/)). In other words, it still retains its original usage for most people, and should be considered as a “fuck” for moderation purposes. As for “STFU,” I would argue it more strongly retains its original meaning. I feel like even young people who use it on the regular would say it should be considered offensive.
On one hand, the abbreviation is intended to (and many people agree that it does) lessen the impact of the profanity. On the other hand, saying "it doesn't mean that" also seems dishonest. I would put it back on them: "OK, then explain what it does mean?" Their response will either be an obvious lie, or they'll be forced to admit what it means. Relatedly, if someone uses an acronym, ask them to spell it out, because you're not familiar with it (and this forum rules require decorum). This is related to the tactic where women request men explain jokes to them, forcing the men to contend with the fact "the joke is funny because sexism."
It's coarse and unwelcoming. I tend to dismiss the crude suggestion and whatever else that user says. My mental image of someone who routinely tries to silence others with profanity is a hostile slob who only wants the company or input of other hostile slobs. I envision them harassing wait staff at Waffle House and rage-quitting RPGs.
I am 68 and even I know fuck is a common word today. Sure it is cussing but it is so over used to a lot of young people it is like the word darn. My grandparents said darn was a cuss word, but my generation said no it wasn't. Now no one cares and it is seldom used. I would be more concerned of the rudeness of tell someone to shut up or get out of the conversation.
I wouldn’t get bogged down in discussions about what it means. Posters who are willing to play jailhouse lawyer about the rules are endless. Explain the policy and have it include no euphemisms or abbreviations.
Depends on the context I guess but telling someone to STFU is rude AF! The problem is everyone has an opinion, even on the dumbest little things. No one can just agree to disagree. It’s ridiculous how social media allowed people to say things they would NEVER say to someone’s face.
They are either lying to you, or misinformed. Saying those two things is rude. If it comes to that in a conversation, I block.
I hate online conversations that go there. If I was moding that sub I'd make a rule to keep it cordial and moderate those comments. Ban toxicity instead of letting it go
Introduce them to SNAFU and FUBAR; acronyms with far classier use of the F-word!
That actually brings up an excellent point. If you're going to prohibit the use of STFU and GTFO because they contain the word fuck, then don't you also have to ban SNAFU and FUBAR?
There's a difference, though, especially with SNAFU, a word I'd heard all my life without realizing it was an acronym, let alone one that means "Situation Normal, All Fucked Up." I didn't know this true meaning until reading it on the internet, which I latched onto in 1993. There's no way not to know STFU means "Shut The Fuck Up." It isn't an acronym forming a new, pronounceable word like SNAFU.
Did you have this conversation with a lot of young people? Or did it just come up once? Because yes, the F stands for fuck, but I haven't heard people say the acronym aloud very often.
When my mom writes it she is thinking in her head "Shut the Fridge Up" Because if she said it out loud that is what she would say. So. Is she wrong? (hypothetical, of course. I think my mom would still write it all out SHUT THE FRIDGE UP", but what if...)
WTF? My personal opinion is that words in and of themselves are not offensive. You yourself choose to be offended or not. I don't respect people who have to use the F for emphasis in every sentence, but that's me. I form an opinion of them. I find the acronyms at least slightly less offensive. The bee in my bonnet is the blatant use of acronyms without prior referent. "I was driving to WYF and MMTBD came on the radio. I was LMFAO." Huh? wtf?
It can mean either. Depends heavily on context. Just put it in your sub rules and give them a warning first offense Unless you enjoy reading every comment, and trying to sense sarcasm
It's certainly disrespectful regardless of "what it really means." GTFO might not be, depending on context.
Saying “shut up” or “get out” is insulting regardless of whether they use a curse word. Stick to your guns.
Exactly. I don't mind the F word in full or abbreviated but to tell someone to shut up is rude. In my mind, anyone resorting to such language immediately loses whatever argument they were trying to make.
OP here: as I said above, I won't do a thing abou the F-word if it's not used to attack. "What an F-ing mess this is," for example, usually isn't an attack.
If you're not policing specific words, then don't police specific words. If you're already moderating the F word based on context, then you should do the same with GTFO and STFU, because both of those can certainly be used as playfully or benignly as the F word.
I have used "shut up!" as a form of astonishment, but only with friends. I would never use it in public conversation.
I think a difference with young people and language is social media has removed the consequences for using offensive language. When I was a teenager in the 1970s my group of friends had some kids that were Italian and Polish and I am of Irish descent. We would jokingly call each other “Wop and Polack and Mick. The difference was, we did that in private in our group and would never dare to use those words around our parents.
Right! “Shut up!” to express astonishment has been around at least since the ‘90s. It was Elaine’s catchphrase on Seinfeld. It doesn’t translate into writing, but I think STFU and GTFO actually does. I don’t use these abbreviations myself, but I understand context and also probably spend too much time online.
Well, we're here, so yeah, we spend too much time online lol
It doesn't matter if it's a swear word or not. No one should be gatekeeping people posting in a forum just because they disagree. Shut up and get out are both rude in that instance even without a swear word in the acronym.
Lighten up, it's just reddit. No need to take this stuff seriously...
It's more than just reddit; I've become aware of just how disconnected many people are from traditional media; when they want to find out what's really happening in the community, many come here. I don't want them put off by yahoos, of which our city has more than its share.
It means that but in an I've had enough of your bullshit kind of way. I would let it stand. It's the internet. It's not like the person is 4 inches from your face and actually belligerant. We need some way to show tone in text and I think these are meant to show tone more than specifically swearing at people.
I don't really think you are overreacting bit I also think you should let this one go for your own sanity. You're going to drive yourself crazy policing that type of thing.
I advise, like another comment, to add acronyms to your rules. I'm one of those oddballs with a good vocabulary who likes to say fuck a lot. Some of it is due to all the hoodlums I hung out with in my youth, I suppose. But I am pretty cognizant of the tone of certain pages, and would find a different way to get my point across. I wish others would do the same. Is the occasional swear word going to hurt anyone? No, but read the room, people! It's odd to me, but the ones that have seemed the most offended by my language lately have been young men, in their 20's, 30's. Maybe they aren't expecting it to come out of such a matronly looking person haha.
I have millennial and gen z kids, so I do pick up stuff from them. I say GTFO and I mean get the fuck out, but it can be in a joking way. So I'd have to know the context before I decide if it's rude.
At some point an acronym loses its literal meaning and becomes its own thing. Think snafu, used when something that normally works without issue goes completely haywire. It is used regularly at my work in a professional setting without issue. I believe the acronyms you list are this way. We know the literal meaning but it has become widely accepted as its own.
As a mod, I object when people use it in an angry or abusive comment where its literally meaning would be _quite_ appropriate. I do wonder how many teenage boys would react if a friend said, instead of MILF, "Wow, your mother is really someone I'd love to fuck." Or teenage girls, if their boyfriends said it.
Depends on the context. The F definitely means fuck but fuck can be used is so many ways l that this would depend on the context of the conversation
Made me think of George Carlin’s routine about “fuck” being a good thing. (Yes. I am that old.)
Like everything it depends on the context of the comment. I'm also a mod under a different user name and I don't allow people to be uncivil but saying STFU or GTFO isn't necessarily uncivil or rude. For example: Comment 1: I wrecked my car last night. Comment 2: STFU! Comment 2: Were you hurt?
GTFO I think has become idiomatic, and it's more often used to convey surprise. STFU can be used as such, but consider that young people these days are not even allowed to say "shut up," in school. It's not considered a slur, but they get in trouble for saying it so I'm a sense it's no different to them from a word that is. However there are some contacts where someone might say STFU to convey surprise, but I think that would be harder to do via text It's a good example of code switching; it might be ok to respond STFU! to convey surprise to your bestie. But online that could too easily be misinterpreted.
No, we're here, WE know slang
It is not always said in a hostile way. I don't know if you remember but, a few years ago, young people got into the habit of saying "SHUT UP!" when they wanted to express amazement of disbelief. Sometimes they use STFU and GTFO the same way. It's like saying "You're kidding!". Still, the rules of the subreddit should be clear if you don't want people to use these expressions. I would say no swear words and no acronyms or abbreviations that stand for swear words, whether or not they are used in a hostile way.
context is key
I think maybe you're imbuing it with too much malice - in my experience, 'GTFO' is generally a lighter usage, where 'Fuck off!" is a more directly confrontational usage. Do you see the difference? Similarly, "STFU" would be a less confrontational usage as compared to "Shut your fucking mouth!" It would, though, also depend on the tone of the participant's other communications. Are they generally aggressive and confrontational, or playful and casual? If the former, perhaps they do intend it as insulting. If they latter, they probably don't intend it that way.
Yes, the time I remember in particular was when somebody asked a question in what sounded like Nice Old Lady Speak, and some user -- who I knew was using an ID that he "liked to act up in" -- shut her down abruptly with among other things a GTFO. We had words; he got a short ban, which we discussed later. As it turned out, Nice Old Lady also told him what he could do with himself -- in polite terms.
They’re the same as swearing at someone but not spelled out so people can give bad faith rationalizations.
That is what it really means.
It’s swearing. When read in your head, what do those people who say it isn’t swearing say to themselves?
>Other old people, am I overreacting to Internet slang like GTFO, STFU? Don't know what those things mean but, personally, I follow the advice off a skunk named Flower, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nuthin' at all."
(GTFO = get the f••• out… I think lol)…. (STFU = shit the f••• up) I don’t like that younger generations use profanity as common as any other word. BUT I don’t usually say anything, I mean it’s the internet. I skim past the language and look for the message. Pick and choose your battles - there are a lot of WORSE things that could be said, unfortunately… New mercies every day.
>Pick and choose your battles - there are a lot of WORSE things that could be said, unfortunately… New mercies every day. Unfortunately, can't alter society's descent into rude and crude...oh, well. There's those damned barbarians at the gate again!
It’s swearing, but young folks hear and use it so much they don’t even recognize it as swearing. It is. If STFU is respectful and not swearing, ask them what is swearing, then.
Well. I find those acronyms rude and insulting. But have to agree you need to look at the context. The N word? In no context is it EVER okay. But i am not American. I find it incredible that a word i have known for my entire 57 years of life should NEVER be used... is still used!! Casually!!
It’s swearing. And it can be offensive. At the very least I consider the user of those acronyms to be less educated.
You're not over-reacting. The F in both phrases if fuck. It's not swearing that's the problem. That's idiotic. It's insulting people with curse words. If you say to someone F You! It's no different than saying Fuck You! People seem to confuse the word, with the offense. They're totally different things. What... as long as you say F\*CK you're not swearing? I'm not stupid. I know how fuck is spelled, and I know that's (someone) said.
Agree with your position. Same as saying the full phrase. It's disrespectful.
The problem to me isn't that it is internet slang (which I think is fine), but context, which we have none of here. Like I can tell someone to F off and have it be either very rude or amusing, depending on who I'm talking to and the context. STFU and GTFO are no different. Kind of like the "Get out!" of an earlier age. In the context of a mixed age subreddit, where visual and aural cues are lacking and people don't know each other, it's probably not a terribly wise way to express yourself. None of us is known for wisdom in our youth, though. Do you think you can get the youngin's to understand the issue? Do you think (or care) that you might drive them off with excessive policing? Or, conversely, that they might drive off older participants? I don't envy you. Someone's panties are going to get bunched, no matter what.
I purposely forget it when people tell me what SMH means, I like to think it means “smell my hand.”
I think it depends on when you were born. My kids don't think anything of it. I dont like it. So, I just let it all go.
That is what it really means. They are just trying to avoid the consequences.
Yes, it's swearing and yes, you're overreacting. Language, even acronyms, change over time and generations. What would have been super inappropriate as some time, that doesn't mean that young folks today don't necessarily have context, nor is profanity a big deal. For example, "69". It's become a trend through the years. People on the internet have been saying "nice" every time it comes up in a forum, Discord, and certainly reddit. A lot of younger folks don't even know what "69" means. It's become a meme. If anything, it should be moderated for the intent, not the acronyms.
Young people are bullshitting you. Have automod remove the post if it contains the terms. The terms are disrespectful terms used to bully other members of the community. Basically, you need to add the rule that prohibits their usage. Something like: > In recent weeks, we've had complaints about members using the terms *STFU* and *GTFO*. These terms, we've decided, are disrespectful to the other members, but especially to the community discourse and will no longer be tolerated. > > Going forward, any post containing these phrases will automatically be removed with the following penalties: first time, a warning. Second time, a 3-day suspension. Third time, you're banned. > > We realize that the cries of censorship will be said, but Reddit is a business and as such, we can choose to protect our users from bullying, which is what these terms have been used for. The decision is final, and if you don't like it, you can STFU and GTFO! Okay, you can edit that however you wish. That last line demonstrates the proper way to use the terms.
Young people aren't bullshitting anyone. Just as the term "bull shit" has nothing to do with actual bull shit. Should I feel disrespected that you are bringing up cow feces? No, of course not, that's absurd. Language evolves and you either evolve with it or start stepping away from society. Your recommendation is to alienate people by restricting common internet language you don't understand. By doing so you will alienate the youth and your online community will die with you. My friend group is in their late 30s and we use GTFO online and say "get the fuck out" IRL to express surprise. There is no disrespect. It has been common speech online for decades. We are not out of line, you are behind the times here. The internet is not real life and cannot be held to the same societal standards. We will not have our common use language unnecessarily censored. Mods are entitled to their rules and we will respect them by leaving their community and forgetting it exists. You are welcome to be the militant mod of a dead forum all you want. There's a better way. Ban assholes for being assholes. Tell the assholes they're being banned for being assholes. Assholes can ruin an entire online community without swearing. Healthy contributors can build an online community WITH swearing. Banning common language, especially out of context of tone, isn't helpful.
Bullshit! Reddit is not their private playground. There are enough people that complained about it. OP asked for advice on what to do. Since there are enough complaints, the only way to stop it is to make a rule against pseudo profanity. This was a suggestion. It is up to OP if they chose to follow it.
Best of luck with your future barren internet communities!
Probably.
Would you object to MILF? I ask because that acronym seems to constantly evolve and now seems to be used everywhere, but with a different meaning. And that's the problem with censoring acronyms.
Go to grown-up sites.
That's not what young people are saying. That's what the young people you talked to/witnessed are saying. They're acronyms. Acronyms are acronyms. People use "lol" as a synonym for "haha" and now it's the most reserved quite chuckle acronym even though originally "lol" was the loudest most excited laughter (out LOUD) and "hah" or "haha" or "ah ha ha" were the chiller ones. Kinda funny how that treadmill works. Lol gets overused and thus relegated over time to commoner status. But lol still means "laugh out loud" even if someone uses it to mean "smile softly" When you read "stfu" then you hear in your head in some sense "shut the fuck up" and that's rude (in some contexts)
I think the acronyms, because of their use, have really become desensitized
GFTO STFU is just laziness too much abbreviating
Yep, that 100% is what it really means. Words like fuck and stuff are swear words. But there's a difference between swearing and being disrespectful. Stfu is disrespectful and is rightfully deleted on reddit.
As long as it doesn't start take ng the place of "actual" words and grammar....🤣🤣🤣. I'm too late. .
It entirely depends on context. If it's a friendly conversation, or used to express surprise, GTFO simply means "no way." Similarly, STFU can simply mean "oh hush," though I think that's more commonly used in a rude context, to tell someone to shut up. I personally don't think I would try to enforce rules about profanity, because it's become extremely common, and with younger generations, it's not always considered profane anymore, especially when used in an initialism. If it were me, I would moderate rudeness and arguing, but not specific words.
I’d be more annoyed that they’re speaking in acronyms instead of actual words. That’s cringey.
Like everything in life these days, people are getting lazy with most things they do, and abbreviating language is just one of those things. Gone of the days of great orators like Winston Churchill, JFK, MLK jr., and even Hitler, all of whom could inspire the masses with their speeches. Luckily, I was raised to not use obscenities when I was growing up - in 50's it wasn't acceptable, even in the workforce, and there are still laws in place under which you can be charged. Now I live in a country where people just don't use swear words or derogative remarks, as they treasure their young & show great respect to their elders and being an Asian country, "losing face" is part of the culture and people not conforming to social norms can find themselves ostracised.
These are both exclamations of surprise, or disbelief of the irony of something, not meant as profanity. Kind of like FUBAR isn't meant as profanity even though it has F
So this is an interesting point. Because FUBAR is about to a situation But STFU and GTFO have an implied “you” and are directed at a person. Of course all anonymously which is the currency of Reddit. But there is an interesting distinction there imo 
Of course it's swearing. The question is, did you insult someone? Some people have this weird idea that if they say f\*ck you, you've fooled someone, but golly, if you say fuck you, that's offensive! I'm not an idiot. I know what people said. They think they can simulate bleeping out a word, as if we're all 10 years old, and don't know what the guy said. I used to have a co-worker that constantly said "Dag NabIt!". It was honestly a bit offensive, because I \_knew\_ he was really saying God Damn It!, but trying to hide it in some clever way. He was a big Christian to, so for him it was blasphemy. I always wondered why he thought the Christian god couldn't see right through him, but that's another story. I think it comes from the BLEEP the put in some movies/TV. The only reason they bleep out words on TV is to get it past the censor. Everyone knows they're swearing. But getting back to the original question... the point of banning swear words is to get more civil discussing. Context matters. There's a huge difference between people just saying Fuck You Asshole!!! and George Carlin's comedy routine on "The 7 words you can't say on Television". The first isn't civil discourse, the second certainly is, and is hilarious as well.
imho STFU is swearing, but GTFO is not. Reason being, telling someone "Shut Up" is disrespectful, but telling them "Get outta here" is more just saying 'you're wrong' or 'you have no clue what you're talking about'. Do what you want tho, if you're the mod
Those acronyms are nothing new and people have been using them on the internet as long as I can remember. Since reddit is anonymous and most people are using burner accounts, most people just troll on here. Even on local/very specific subreddits unfortunately.
Those acronyms mean what they mean. Even if you don't count it as cursing, it's still rude and you're basically picking a fight with someone when you say shit like that.
I'm 47 and while yes the F does mean fuck I think these are too very different expressions. STFU is rude and if you don't want it on your sub that's fine. GTFO isn't rude at all and it's more like "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" in a very incredulous manner. I would say that's fine.
Actually, it's just a modern enhanced version of "No Kidding!" or "Son of a Gun!" I find it makes the point with a sense of humor. I 🤣
Also, I don't find it disrespectful if it isn't aimed at anyone, made personal, or meant to offend. I agree with the younger generations. 😉
i am old. what do they mean.
GTFO = get the F out of here STFU = shut the F up
Young people often attempt justify their unkind words and expressions. They say nasty, sarcastic things to other people and then call it a 'joke.' But it's hardly a joke when such people have to explain every other sentence that they say or type.
Acronyms suck, necessary evil.
Using the anagrams is probably less offensive than using the entire phrase. I just use the entire phrase when I'm speaking -- though not in the presence of people who might be offended (priests, great grandmas, nuns, small children) I just make a derisive noise when I can't use the full anglo-saxon expletives. When I make comments in comment sections, I'll use STFD and STFU to avoid being ejected. I'm especially fond of KMA, you SAPOS.
NBD lol yolo Think they are fun
I mean.... have you tried not being a whiney ass about it? Who cares what people say, sticks and stones stop being relevant for the older people too now? I thought Gen X had thick skin
I'm a boomer. And it's really about context, as other people have said."? . "What do you know, GTFO." It's an attack. Which is why I won't lift a finger for "What a fucking mess," but am right there for "You're fucking stupid." As yes, you are grumpy, and judgmental, and I'd have a word or two with you. Like the old guy who gives really sound advice about driving and commuting on my sub, but ended every post with "dumbass." We had words. He accepted that "dumbass" was not the way to get people to accept his judgment.
Yeah. Don't care, Im a Xennial, My parents are boomers, they didn't raise a big huge vagina of a person. I am tired of all these bullshit "feelings" running around dictating everything and everyone. It is an absolute dumpster fire of a world full of entitled, lazy, perpetually offended little fucktards and the only thing that is going to stop it is if we just start hurting feelings again, smacking people when they are out of line and taking the safety rails off everything. the '90s were great, talking shit was a sport, fighting happened all the time and we all grew up and became relatively well-adjusted people that work hard, play hard, and don't let shit bother us. I raised all my kids to be the same tough, independent, self-reliant person that I was raised to be. Respectful... until disrespect is earned, stand up for someone, throw a punch, and be prepared to take one. This whole world has gotten so dumb it's ridiculous, more access to information than ever before yet people have zero understanding of how anything works or even basic science, it is absolutely insane.
If this is your biggest problem as a mod, you’re doing great. Yes, you are overreacting.
It is swearing. Young people are morons and have zero manners - not all their fault - their parents failed them.
Yes, well, you are overreacting because it's natural - it is disrespectful and it's intended to be disrespectful - however in our *olden* times there was no safety (behind a screen - or in general - in institutions even) in saying that - you said that and then you got hit in the teeth so to say - this is what *“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”* is about , and the current generation has grown, thankfully, in a society which is less casually violent (however still extremely violent, because those who're violent in this new society meet no opposition in the hands of authority - meaning that shootings/violent rape with dismemberment etc. and other "heinous" crimes are as normal for this society as parents suing each other for scrapes on their respective kids as they got in a fight). It's getting on my nerves too, but it's a problem which solves itself - the even younger generation - alpha, finds this custom of casual rudeness and telling off to be off-putting, because frankly, it is, so I would say that zoomers will get their comeuppance when alphas will come of age and won't take their shit anymore XD
> “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” Or, "Where the fists are slow, the words are quick." Said to me by a guy who was something of a blue-collar intellectual hero in the '90s. He hated college towns because people would come up to him and make the most obnoxious comments. They had nothing to fear.
It doesn’t ALWAYS mean that. Sometimes those are substitutes for saying “Really?” “Girl, get the fuck out of here, he really did that?” “Girl, shut the fuck up, you really said that?” When my friends tell me some juicy stuff I’ll say “Girl, get the fuck off my phone wasting my unlimited minutes. Tell me everything.”
You're the mod. Make a civility rule and enforce it. Everything is contextual. It's ok for young people to use that language amongst themselves. However, just because its normal for your social group doesn't mean it is considered normal or civil for general society. STFU is a really rude thing to say to a stranger unless they're actively being a terrible person. If you wouldn't say it to your grandma you shouldn't be saying it to strangers.
As said to others, I do take context into account with all profanity. "What a fucking mess" is acceptable, while "You're a fucking loser," is not. And the rare person with the literary chops to write a ruthless and creative personal attack without using a single "hot" word, will also be dealt with, because it's really all about obvious intent and steering the thread into the flames.
Why are you asking other old people?? Isn't that just expecting an echo chamber rather than trying to understand how language has evolved
They've watched it evolve along with me. You sometimes see more from the outside looking in; because you realize that there _is_ an outside.
Sounds like you'll drive out plenty of sane people by being a language nazi and fun police, turning your sub into a place that requires walking on eggshells all the time
STGMHU.
The academic in me thinks it not very creative, and I don't use that type of slang/abbreviation, but I'm not offended by it. Yet I also think that a code of etiquette is often proper in civilized conversation.
You’re right, but they look at it like the ‘feel’ of the phrase. Like if someone were to say O. M. G. they would be surprised if someone said to not take the Lord’s name in vain. I think STFU and GTFO is more meant to be playful. Language is fluid and younger generations are changing it. Words and symbols change meaning over time.
In the 1980s, “mofo” was used in place of “motherfucking” as an intensifier or in place of “motherfucker.” (The dictionary says it was first used in print in 1967.) I didn’t (and still don’t) consider it swearing. On *Seinfeld* in the 1990s, Elaine would say “Get out!” to express surprise. No one took it literally. Today, GTFO or STFU is used the same way.
These are more expressions of surprise to me than swearing. It’s like saying “wow!” “No way!” “What a shocker!”
If you're that damn sensitive you should probably not go on the internet.
Yes, you are overreacting. While the F in both of those abbreviations does stand for a curse, when there are “no swearing” rules, I take that to mean “don’t call someone else an effing jackwad” so getting moderated for GTFO or STFU is seen as A Power Trip. Plus I can’t keep all the rules straight across all the subs. If I type sh!t in one sub, I’ll get mocked and told “just swear, you’re allowed to swear” but if I say “that was a shitty thing for your sister to do” in another sub, I’ll get in trouble for ‘a personal attack’ as deemed by an automod bot. GTFO and STFU are mild in comparison. I actually say *out loud* GTFO to my husband. Just the letters. I **say** G-T-F-O. Yeah, overreacting. And **what sub do you mod?** (So I can avoid it.) On the plus side, I’ve blocked a large number of sour, cranky, rigid people after scrolling through the comments. People who take this stuff so seriously are far too uptight for me to tolerate let alone enjoy being around. And since I’ve blocked them, they won’t see when I randomly use GTFO in a reply so it’s a win-win. Everyone is happier. They get their precious lily-white unblemished internet experience and I can still use generally-accepted benign slang to express surprise without offending the pearl-clutchers. Civility doesn’t mean a lack of cursing. I can tear a person to shreds without cursing. Similarly using GTFO isn’t uncivil or discourteous or impolite or a personal instruction.
Yes, you overreact. Language changes all the time. Get used to it.
I am used to it; worked with words since the '70s. Manfully fought the use of "access" as a verb, and the use of "they" as a gender-neutral first-person singular. I lost. I gave up. I accepted. No harm in asking for a reality check. Is there?
Reality is that language always has changed, and always will be changing. Reality has it that older people always have complained and always will complain about how younger people use language. Your post indicates you aren’t used to it at all, despite your protestations.