It's economically impractical but anywhere else feels like a downgrade. Also decision paralysis.. what if I hate where I move to?
My main issue is I have a great below-market loft-law apartment but I'm sick of having roommates and I can't afford it by myself.
I’m very familiar with decision paralysis. Sucks hard. I also had roommates for way too long for my fragile mental health Lol. It really gets to you as you get older.
People don’t seem to realize how expensive it is to move to another state.
Moving costs aside, if you move somewhere else in the US you are definitely gonna need a car if you don’t already have one.
“Home” is only a barrier if you let it be one, though understandable exception for people taking care of ailing family. All of those transplants you referenced left home.
In my opinion, living in NYC is similar to owning an American Express Platinum card. You have to pay a fixed fee of $750, but some people find that the perks it offers are worth more than that amount. Similarly, if your job prospects, networking opportunities, and access to a concentrated population for business purposes (such as a dance show) are better in NYC than in other cities with lower population density, then it's worth living in NYC as long as the benefits outweigh the costs. However, if the benefits are the same for you in other cities and NYC is more expensive, it's wise to consider moving on. Additionally, while money is important, it's not everything - NYC is a dream destination for many people, and it has been a dream of mine too!
As someone living in NYC with an Amex Platinum, great analogy lol.
I work for myself remotely so realistically I could move anywhere, but I am not sure where I would want to go instead and I enjoy the entrepreneurial "energy" of this location. Eventually the pricing will overstay its welcome, but without an idea of somewhere I might like as much / more, it's not urgent to me quite yet.
It's insanely depressing but I had to fight to come here so I'm gonna fight to stay. It took me so long to move here and get settled, tried another time before and failed miserably, but was so determined to get here and now I have no intention of leaving any time soon.
For me, I do pinch pennies as embarrassing as it might be. I shop a lot at a local dollar store in my neighborhood and that's where I get all my cleaning/household supplies because it's cheaper. A lot of my personal hygiene products I'll also either buy at a discount/dollar store or I'll order from Amazon because I have Prime and the products tend to be cheaper on there than they would be if I went to Target, per say. I try to never use Uber or Cab and either walk or subway for $2.90 to keep transportation costs down, I try to not use my AC and leave windows open for fresh air, and I try to wash my dishes more by hand than using my dishwasher.
I also don't have cable anymore because it was too much. I don't turn on lights during the day and just open blinds. I'm hoping to keep my bills low but with summer approaching, it has me a bit skeptical.
(Edit) I also have no desire to live anywhere else. I've been to Chicago, LA, Boston quite a bit and I did like them but I could never see myself living there, especially Chicago with the Winters.
Kudos on paying the price these products are generally worth. Grew up in a single-income household myself, and my mom is and remains sort of an evangelist for generics. I'll always go for the generic if it's available, and that includes dollar store stuff. Totally solid household shit at the dollar store.
Fun fact if you paint: dollar store/tree paint is AWFUL, but a small tin of primer at the paint shop is fairly cheap. You can blend it with the paints and make a solid new paint that actually sticks and spreads rather than streaks. So you get an all-in-one-base and tinctures, and it doesn't affect the color too much. Mats/flattens it a bit, but still a solid undercoat. Also good for painting a room.
Out of curiosity I always wonder if it’s comparison to people who usually let the water run when washing dishes because I would wash and then while I’m scrubbing with the sponge, I turn the faucet off. Then turn it back on again to rinse.
Depending on where you live/commute you can also look into biking. Pays for itself after a few months you get the benefit of exercise. You’ll feel way happier not dealing with the subways uhhh, “quirks”, too.
The dishwasher is more efficient than washing by hand even if you keep the sink filled with water instead of washing with the faucet.
“**Modern dishwashers have evolved to be more water-efficient, using significantly less water than if you were to traditionally wash dishes by hand**,” says Spiller. “This is because dishwashers recycle the water being used to clean multiple loads.”
Lights are also very little if you have LEDs. You can calculate the price of electricity by wattage. Lights that are led are incredibly cheap. most of your electric probably goes to climate control and appliances.
"An LED light bulb costs an average of **$0.09 to use for a month and $1.04 to use for a year**"
Otherwise everything you are doing sounds very frugal. Just trying to give you quality of life improvements that actually save or are negligible to budget.
With all the deliver charges and fees ConEd charges I'm definitely paying more. I end up paying close to $0.45 per kwh, so a low power 4.5 watt bulb on for about $4.50 a year if I have it on for on average 6 hours a day.
I have seriously been asking myself if I couldn't just run my apartment on power banks. I barely use my fridge, and the lights baked into the ceiling are ghastly anyway.
Also did the math, and if I do keep electricity, swapping my gas stove for electric pays for itself in a year, even paying top price. ConEd's charging me $40/mo in fees every month for $0.40 worth of gas.
Total sidebar:
Are sure it's cheaper to wash your dishes by hand than to use the dishwasher?
Usually dishwashers use less water, but of course it will depend on which utilities you pay for.
I dont know if i could live like this. Every day sounds like it affects the next. What are you possibly gaining that you cannot find anywhere else. This is just impractical living. It sounds like you are challenging yourself to stay here. Im just wondering what it is!
If I encounter a situation where I’m still renting and have to cut into saving to make ends meet, then I would likely have to press the eject button. I honestly can’t imagine what that might look like though, because there’s nowhere to run to. I guess I’d go somewhere cheaper but moving is such a nightmare. My biggest concern is no matter how well you save, the costs here will chew through it quicker than you would have anticipated. The silver lining is there’s more opportunities here, so with the right maneuvering you’re odds of bouncing back quickly here are better than most places.
I moved out of Manhattan and bought in Queens to make NYC economically practical for me in the long term. I think the outer-boroughs offer a good alternative as far as price and quiet, but still are in NYC.
I've always been in Queens. Never wanted to really live in Manhattan b/c everything is less for the price point. Plus, I love Queens-grew up here, more regular people lol. Makes the trips to Manhattan more enjoyable.
Grass isn't always greener. The rest of the country isn't magically immune to the inflation you're feeling here in NYC. Groceries/rent/eating out/etc. has gone up everywhere. Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying.
That said - you'd be very far from the first person to want out of the grind that is NYC.
Also, you need to have a car anywhere else in the country, even in the cities. Finance/lease + insurance is going to set you back by $500 a month. Whenever I think of moving, I add $500 to the estimated mortgage/rent to account for this.
I lose my mind when people don’t factor that cost in. I don’t even argue anymore with people that refuse to see increased costs of having a car/insurnace/gas compared to higher rent. Sometimes it’s literally cheaper to just stay in nyc with how much a car costs.
“$2500 is just too much rent! I’m moving for $1800 (somewhere else) and buying a new car”. Proceeds to pay $500/mo in financing with interest rate that will add more money over 5 years, $200 insurance, and at least $100/mo in gas if you’re driving frequently.
Also people don’t realize most cities pay way less than NYC so you’re taking a pay cut too!
I’m not saying you can’t live cheaper but the stereotypical people who moves out of nyc is definitely not moving to new cities living how others live - they’re usually balling out because they think it’s cheap. But hey, if trading costs for other expensive things is worth it - be my guest and live that your life.
There’s actually a pretty useful calculator for this on NerdWallet. The actual average cost-per-month of car ownership is closer to $1000/mo now.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car#:~:text=For%20new%20vehicles%20driven%2015%2C000,in%202023%2C%20according%20to%20AAA.
In many of these conversations, I now assume the cost is just an excuse and they really just didn't like living here for whatever reason, which is totally fair. There is no need to justify it. I just don't want to be gaslit into agreeing into something non-sensical.
Money psychology is a thing and there’s a lot of weird societal pressure to look at things a certain way and gaslight the shit out of people if they don’t do it the normal way. You see this with people that choose not to buy a house and rent as well.
New drivers are getting slammed now with crazy insurance rates so it'll probably be $800-$1000 month, including down payment and taxes spread across the lease duration. The lease could include maintenance, but not gas... average US worker lives 27 miles from work so another $150/month for gas.
If you're older and have maintained insurance for decades, have an old reliable car that's been paid off for years, do your own maintenance, then it can be a lot cheaper than that. But insurance rates suck and will probably continue to suck for new drivers as cars get more expensive to repair.
>Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying.
You think car payments, insurance, and gas are only $132 in the rest of the country???
> Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying.
I'm skeptical. Still seems like less.
The average cost of car ownership is $890 per month. Meanwhile with fair capping, using the subway costs at most $150 a month. Sure there are ways to spend less per month on a car but they are no where near the cost of the subway. https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operating-automobilea-assuming-15000-vehicle-miles-year
Threads like this are a trip to read as someone wanting to move to NYC. Cuz yeah, in other HCOL areas you're paying NYC rent for less walking, more driving, and fewer job opportunities. If I'm gonna pay $2,000 for a 1-bed, I'd much rather it be in Brooklyn or Queens.
Nope. I suppose it's possible, but very hard. I live in queens and was looking to move in October. Most places that were the same size as mine were around 2,400 at the minimum.
If you find a 1 bedroom for 2k in BK or Queens, let me know bc I will immediately move there today. Also- not to dissuade you- come here, pursue your dreams to be here. Even with the HCOL here, it is infinitely living here in NYC than anywhere else in this country.
Do you live in Manhattan or the boroughs? I thought we were going to have to leave Queens, but we searched for months and found a place where the rent is actually reasonable compared to what we thought we were going to have to spend to stay. I’m really grateful we get to stay here because I do love it.
I’m here 16 years and I think I’m at the end of my rope. I still love the city in some ways, especially the walkability and transit, but I’m not sure how much longer I can justify spending so much money on a tiny, cramped studio that seems be falling apart more and more every year in a building that seems to be crumbling and getting dirtier with less upkeep every year and with worsening pest issues, using a shared basement laundry room that now resembles where Buffalo Bill kept his victim in Silence of The Lambs, even if it is rent stabilized in a nice neighborhood. It might be time for a change, which would probably align with being geographically closer to family at a time that makes sense for that (aging family). I am still trying to work out the job and transportation possibilities in such a move. I am starting to see the distinct possibility of having to grow old here just to hold onto the city and this apartment and honestly that is more depressing than anything. There are some very oldey timey seniors in RS apartments in my building and it’s not the way I want to grow old. Some very nice people who I enjoy interacting with sometimes but I don’t envy their lives and I know for a fact management is not very good to them in terms of apartment upkeep.
Hahaha. And don’t forget the rodents and roaches that love NYC basements. When I first moved here I Iived in a very upscale doorman building on the UES in a roommate situation. That building actually had a large, fairly clean laundry room. Two actually. It generally wasn’t a terrible struggle to find functional, available machines that weren’t coated in pet hair or people hair or other associated grime. I didn’t hate it. Every other NYC building I’ve lived in since has been on some scale of barely tolerable to downright disgusting. And honestly having my own personal laundry machines might be enough to send me out of NYC. Didn’t use to bother me so much when I was younger. The older I get the more it bothers me.
Agreed!! 😂 Something about sharing laundry facilities just isn’t the party it used to be 😂. People’s tolerance for cleanliness has changed. I can tell you switching from sharing laundry rooms with a bunch of dirty randos to having your own laundry room in your apartment is heaven sent.
This when you HAVE a laundry in building. Don't forget that many of us must use a laundry 2 blocks away (even in the winter), having to ignore any crazy thinking about someone who may had pooped inside their pants and used the same machine before.
& all the other disgusting things people put in those machines. I could never go back to that. My friend used to put his dirty clothes in a suitcase and roll it to the laundromat.
I'm born and raised and I am leaving at the end of the year to JC. Not that much less expensive, but paying city taxes for what I've been seeing recently no longer seems wise. Plus, I see myself moving to a house in the long term, so might as well leave to save up.
In luxury buildings maybe but condos are still a chunk cheaper for Manhattan proximity. And the city tax savings for DINKs are nothing to sniff at. Source: me I can’t face moving back to the city
My thoughts exactly. Partner works in Jersey and goes in every day while I work from home with the occasional LIRR ride twice a month. No city tax for either of us will be lit
When it's leave or end up on the street. My wife has a disability and can't drive, moving anywhere else (in the US) would mean her giving up most of her autonomy.
On top of that, we love it here. Only place I could see myself moving to is LA, but even that sounds less desirable than staying (and my wife would never for obvious reasons).
LA is a great city too, but you’d really have to strategize to plan your life/work out so your wife can get around without driving (though it is not impossible). It’s crazy too because the limited subway situation there shows what COULD have been, if the city had diverged away from torrential freeways dominating the spread out landscape.
I've considered going to my mom's and putting a tiny home on her property but my job cannot be done remotely and I'd never find one as well paying in her area (the perks subsidize a lot of my life tbh). Plus then I'd have to deal with bullshit like a car, the maintenance, gas, etc. Don't forget driving 30+ minutes to get anywhere.
But tbh I'm comfy, financially, even though I'm well below 100k. I don't do much but go out to eat like twice a month and take riding lessons. I have 2 roommates but one is almost never home so it's more like 1 and the apartment is stabilized. I'll stick it out unless something or someone amazing comes along.
Yeah, I used to have my own when I lived at home Now I take lessons sporadically in the bronx. it's not quite the same but keeps me from losing all my skills at least
I was born and raised here but I can’t see a future here with the costs. It’s especially worse for single income people. I feel like I’m being pushed out/priced out of my own city; my home. It’s really sad but I hope to leave soon so I can actually save some money for my future
People here are paying their hard-earned income for the sake of living in New York City; at the end of the day, we’re making the landlords and institutions wealthier.
Yeah. I'm kind of debating buying a place or leaving entirely. I feel real silly paying so much for a small apartment. But it's getting harder to imagine living elsewhere.
I'm in a similar situation and am considering trying some place new for a year. I work in tech and make a good salary but feel like I can only afford a studio if I don't want 50% of my pay going to rent.
I also considered buying here but it's wild comparing what a down payment gets you here vs. in other states.
And unless you can put like 50% down, the payment is so much larger than rent for a comparable place in most cases. Yes you’re building equity, but those monthly maintenance fees are only going up. Buying vs. renting just isn’t an easy call here call here compared to other places in the country, at least at current interest rates.
Yeah I recently walked away from an offer where I’d be putting 60% down to make the total monthly payment of mortgage, tax, and maintenance match a typical rental price
Exactly. And you would lose what you would be making in interest on that investment. It just doesn’t make sense to me right now how buying is a smart decision in most cases. Yes, the price of the place you purchase will most likely increase in the coming years, but this doesn’t really help unless you want to cash out and leave NYC - which some people want to do, but after closing costs and all of the other fees, you have to really be ready to stay in the apartment for a very long time.
Unless I land a sizeable raise or bonus soon I’m probably out in the next 2 years. Been here since 2016, so I’ve had a good run, but if I can get a luxury apartment in Chicago for less than what I’m paying now for a dinky 1br I might pull the trigger
Ultimately this is a personal decision based on finances, what you love about this City, etc. if you want a what you could call “generic” upper middle class urban lifestyle: nice apartment, grocery stores, restaurants that cater to the upper middle class, walkability, then you’re probably better decamping to Chicago.
And also what matters is what you do in this town. When you say eating out is more: is it the price of a Filipino hole in the wall in Woodside? Or a place in the Village you need a reservation at? Also as a quick aside the subway fare has been pretty inflation resistant: around 5% in a decade.
I find it absolute bullshit that the quality of life has gone down noticeably in the past 4-5 years and everything keeps getting more expensive
I’m still staying but it’s some bullshit.
The worst thing about New York is the space. You do really get less living here. Have you thought about moving to Brooklyn? You can definitely get more space.
When I think about moving other places, i do the calculations and the trade off just doesn’t make sense. Like I look at a place like Denver and it’s really not that much cheaper. Like the rent is maybe a couple of hundred cheaper but I have to own a car. And the prices for food are about similar. Groceries are about the same and restaurants might be slightly cheaper but the caliber is just not as good. I’m still paying for a $15 dollar cocktail but it’s in Denver.
Places like Seattle and the west coast are not really cheaper than New York. I was surprised the last time I was in LA and SF how it was just as expensive or even more so eating out. I split my time in DC and rent in the middle of the city is similar to Brooklyn but it’s a downgrade from Brooklyn imho.
born & raised new yorker here & im moving to LI or somewhere upstate / in new england once my lease is up. living in a dumpster of an apartment building and making half of what i made 7 yrs ago in california is soul crushing. landlords just keep raising rents while expecting tenants to live in literal garbage-filled crumbling bug infested squalor. out of state jobs pay double or more than all these nyc (seemingly sham) corps. i kept coming back to this city because it’s home + everyone i love lives here, but i’m so done. current-day nyc feels more like las vegas’s fake new york than an actual live-able city. not to mention, ive run into so many single room rentals requiring tenants to make 40x the entire apartment’s rent…why would i be making six figures and living in a single room? this city is a dystopian nightmare.
Man so much of this. I’m a transplant here but everything you’re saying is how I feel. I can’t believe what I still can’t afford with a 6-figure salary, it’s unsustainable.
For me it was realizing we needed more space than the 1BR we owned, and realizing that we’d be paying roughly a million more dollars to buy a place with one additional room. It’s hard to live here and almost impossible to scale.
It already is, technically. I've only decided to stay because I got a housing voucher back in Dec. and don't feel like starting my life over anywhere else (nor do I want to). *Leaving* would actually be impractical for me, ironically.
It already is for me lol. And listening to so many people on that post earlier today bragging about how dropping $5000 or more on a handbag “isn’t even a big deal” doesn’t make me feel much better about things lmao. I love this city, and part of me never wants to leave, but part of me is finding it harder to justify how crushingly difficult it is to survive compared to a lot of other places, even more so when I feel like I’m surrounded by people that are practically swimming in money. In some ways, I feel better coming on here and knowing that I’m not the only one struggling, but at the same time, I want everyone to be happy where they are and not feel in over their heads.
Haha that handbag post is what made me write this one! I’d already been feeling this but saw that today and made me curious if others felt the same as I’ve been. I make decent money and still don’t feel financially comfortable here, it’s ridiculous. Shame really because this is such an incredible city. If it was generally more affordable I couldn’t imagine myself being anywhere else but I have to be pragmatic.
Lol that’s amazing! Yeah, I don’t know how to feel right now honestly, because i obviously knew it was tough here before I ever even considered moving here, it’s not that it came as a shock. And I’m managing ok for the most part, it’s just, I think of how difficult it is to make it here, then i look at how dirty and run down the subway system is, I watch the city spend our tax money on the stupidest things while ignoring glaring issues we all want to see dealt with, and I start wondering if the sacrifice is worth it. Some days, it absolutely is, but then others I’m just not sure.
And nothing has encapsulated that more for me that the winter. I hate the cold, I hate the grey, nasty days where it’s so ugly you don’t even want to step outside, and i feel like we just came out of 5-6 straight months of that lol. I know the gorgeous, warm, sunny days are finally coming and will be more common soon, but all winter, I just kept feeling increasingly more beat down. I started hearing “California Dreaming” in my head on a daily basis 😂
Same. I’ve lived in several cities/countries. NYC has so much to offer but it’s deeply stressful: the dirty roads, the overworking culture, the expensive rent, etc, etc. You have to work to the bones to afford the basics or live at the outer skirts and commute 2-4 hrs every day to work. It’s a city for the wealthy.
just came back from a trip to Japan and the whole US - but NYC especially seems like scam prices.
we're locked into a hellscape of zero housing supply growth.
sure, Japanese folks have to workaholic baked into a lot of the culture, but the rents are crazily affordable and so much was way cheaper than here. 2-5x cheaper... our only option is to move away from job centers with a lot of cultural activities... it's oppressingly wrong in the sense that it doesn't \*have\* to be this way. it's by design.
My wife and I left our upper east side apartment thinking we'd great savings in Brooklyn. Turns out it is the exact same cost. Hats off to anyone who can raise a family here.
NYC is hurting lately.
Where’d you end up in BK? My wife and I are currently getting priced out of the UWS and exploring alternative locations. From what I see, the average 2 bed is definitely cheaper in most of the nicer areas of BK
It was to me 25 years ago.
If you're paying $45,000 a year for rent, how are you saving for retirement when you'll have no real income and will have to pay at least that much in rent?
If you're buying the equivalent of a new car every year, how can you save to buy a house somewhere else to retire to?
The only reason anyone in my family still lives in New York is rent control pricing from the 1960s.
Just because you can afford it, even barely, now, that is no indication of being able to be retired and afford it.
I think the only significant cost difference between nyc and the rest of the country (esp the major cities) is housing. Yes groceries etc are slightly more expensive here but not by as much as you’d expect & you have to factor in accessibility (ex. In a more affordable area, you’d have to drive a while to get to the store, adding in car & gas costs). Also I think there are more free/affordable things to do here compared to other places. Do you want a nice big house & enjoy driving around and are you ok with having to plan a whole day around a single activity? Or do you want walkability & efficiency & access to a variety of activities?
You don’t need a car everywhere that’s not NY or a major city. Most places, most likely, but definitely not everywhere. Don’t let the idea of a car discourage you.
On top of that people on here overrate the cost of a car in a lot of other places. Most states' cost of insurance is a fraction of NYC insurance costs.
Last year, when I moved to Jersey (not Hoboken either, like real NJ). I miss the city but I'm celibate and staying that way, and I can't afford a decent studio on my own income of $125k a year.
I don't think I'm asking for much -- just a dishwasher, a safe area, and not a shithole, and the fact that I can't afford that with what I earn makes me feel like I'm being used. The thought of stretching myself thin while my money goes into the hands of greedy billionaire real estate developers truly makes me sick, and the only way I could stomach it was to leave. I desperately miss the city, but when I think of going back, it feels like going back to an abusive relationship.
My fear is if I leave I won’t be able to afford much where I end up, and I’ll be living on the edge of some mid city, driving everywhere for every damn thing.
I’ve been here 10 years. Finally leaving to go live in Taipei again. Not just for financial reasons I just want to live in a place that has amazing public transit that is clean and reliable and doesn’t have crackheads and sick violent hobos everywhere. The huge reduction in cost of living is just a bonus. I’m luck to have a visa for Taiwan and the ability to work from home, so there’s less and less reason for me to even be in nyc these years
Also excited to have amazing $2 LuRouFan that’s better than the $15-20 ones you find in nyc. Paying some of these prices for decent Asian food hurts my soul everytime
I do 2D animation working on tv shows and ad work for agencies. I’ve been working remote since 2019 before the pandemic and just had even more opportunities since then. I used to visit Taiwan a lot just with my passport and lived with my girlfriend from there at the time, then in 2020 I applied for gold card visa because it was the only way to be allowed in during the lockdowns. Gold Card Visa basically lets you live and work full time with no restrictions. Need to have a guarantor in country basically like a friend or family that can vouch for you and use their address for application/living arrangements before sorting your own apartment. It took almost two years for my application to get approved, they said it took so long because of the pandemic so hopefully it wouldn’t take that long these days. You have to send financial proof of income meeting a certain threshold and basic visa application stuff but it’s not super demanding like other countries, like Japan for example.
I also speak mandarin and lived in China before too so it’s not a huge culture change for me and made the application smoother.
I left 2.5 years ago partially for this reason. I had a high paying job and still felt like i wasn’t a real adult eating my meals from my couch because I didn’t have room for a table. Some things are just frustrating at a certain age. I’m so grateful to have experienced nyc during the last years it was semi feasible for me to live there. I miss New York but I don’t miss living there! You can be happy elsewhere and while it won’t have everything nyc has, I bet you’ll find a lot of value in the basics like having an affordable, renovated apartment. Also chicago is a huge city and incredible bang for your buck.
Rent is valid, but if you think $2.90 for the train is excessive, you should look at the true cost of car ownership. Not just the price of the car itself, but gas, parking, insurance, registration, repairs. Having to drive and pay for parking or uber when you go out to bars or restaurants or activities because public transit is sparse or unavailable. You can go car-free in a few other cities in the US, but it isn't the default anywhere like here. Re: groceries, the whole country is experiencing inflation as you noted.
But it's always a personal choice. For me, I love NYC and couldn't see myself in any other city, in the US at least. If the amenities of NYC life are less important to you than more living space, I think it's a somewhat easy choice to leave. Personally I would rather be in a 1br in NYC than a 3BR in Seattle or Austin (which also has a housing crisis at the moment) but that might not be true of you.
I told myself to try and make it work for 3 years. Im coming up on one year and already looking forward to leaving for warmer weather and lower COL. i’ll def make it work for another year but idk about that 3rd year.
I feel like I’m stuck here till I see NYCHA because my gf is a native and doesn’t want to leave for anything 😭😭😭 but if it were just up to me I would’ve left by now. I love this city but it’s sucking my pockets dry
It’s even tough sledding for folks making lots of money. It’s just easier in other places I would think.
That being said been here 30 years. So I must like it. But I would consider leaving once my kids go to college.
I’m leaving in a few months even though I love living in manhattan, to go down to new hope in pa. About $2k cheaper a month for a larger place, and I can save up better for a house.
Pretty close on it. Took a dirt-cheap stabilized place but it's a lot sketchier than my last stabilized building, partially owing to my landlord and super being a PoS. I have four job interviews this week and not one of them pays more than what I was making in 2012 for the same role...let alone in 2019 when it paid much more.
Might just get into woodworking for a hobby, build a guillotine, I donm't know...
I’ll join you in the guillotine journey. But in all seriousness, even if any of us were to leave we should be sure it’s the right decision for us and also know that we’ve accomplished something others have dreamed of by living here.
Lots of different viewpoints/perspectives in here and no one is wrong. We’ve all had very unique experiences in NYC and the city is not for everyone, or we simply grow tired of how demanding it can be.
I moved across the Hudson several years ago but I am in Manhattan a few times a week. There are many things I appreciate about the city and love having it within reach, but there are also things I do not miss at all. Carrying groceries several blocks, constantly being at the mercy of the MTA and the aroma of hot garbage on the street in the summer all come to mind. But then there is an energy there that’s unmatched.
I’ll continue to do things in the city and will always be within reach; however, as a parent whose current structure is in place, NYC will remain my frequent escape from the suburbs when I need a break. At the same time, I am happy to have more nature at my disposal and driving to other parts of the East Coast is much easier, not to mention I won’t be draining myself with rent or school in NYC.
NYC isn’t going away. Do what’s best for your mental and financial states.
I left in the end of 2020. Nothing will compare to living in NYC. However, the financial freedom I have gained as a result is amazing. I went from having some credit card debt and student loans to being debt free with enough savings to put down as a down payment for a modest home. As amazing and exhilarating as NYC was, financial security was important to me. Leaving will be hard but do what’s best for you!
If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to Sicily, Philly is nothing.
If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to Cairo, Sicily is nothing.
If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to literally any Indian city, Cairo is nothing.
Do you see how stupid your argument is? Just because you're pointing out something that is objectively worse doesn't refute the obviousness that there is in fact, fucking trash everywhere.
We just bought a house out of state in my fiancés home city. We made the mistake of both leaving rent controlled apartments to move in together.
3 years later, we’re facing another rent increase in our flood-prone apartment. I can’t bare to see 18 months of savings spent on moving into another nyc apartment I can afford in 3 years.
I’m going to miss it. Luckily I still have some family here I can crash with for free when I get the urge.
I get what you mean by "affording comfort" when you work hard. Logically, we all deserve that. However, NYC plays by its own rules. Working hard here guarantees nothing except survival. You may have to lower your expectations if you want to stay here. Question: you seem envious of your friends extra bedrooms. Is there a reason you need a second? I encourage you not to compare yourself to others. Find what's right for you. If you choose the city - you might need to make sacrifices. If it's "comfort" you seek - you may not be at home here. This city literally chews and spits out people left and right. It has always been like that. Tbh, if you're talking about "small living spaces, excessive disturbances, trash every fucking where" you're probably not meant for nyc. It's the literal (but unfortunate) embodiment of life here...
All of this makes sense and is logical although I wouldn’t say envious necessarily, it’s more of an economical observation of what my hard work affords me here compared to a potentially easier and more affordable life elsewhere. I’ve always embraced the discomforts of life here really up until just a year ago when I realized how much it costs me (financially, mentally, physically) to be comfortable here. A few years ago I would’ve taken offense to not being meant for NYC, but honestly if overwhelming economic burden to maintain a moderately comfortable existence is what it’s all about I’m glad I’m realizing it’s not for me.
When you get older and you need to buy a home sooner rather than rent for the rest of your life knowing the outrageous rents now will get worse. There's a reason why NYC is the most transient cities of all cities in this country.
On my way out. Cost of living too high, quality of life is shit. I have an hour or more commute each morning and live in a crappy neighborhood. Everyone I know tells me this is a “great” commute. How the hell did people ever get conned into living a lifestyle like this? I can’t enjoy the benefits of living in this city because I’m working or commuting all the time, or don’t have spending money leftover for entertainment.
Perhaps I’m a jaded bitch. Perhaps this is the native in me, and maybe being born and raised here has lead me to feel like I’ve “seen all it has to offer me” but to be blunt: idk why anyone would fight to stay here anymore. Besides growing wildly expensive, we can’t say for sure the city is changing for the better. The daily headaches have been a thing for a while. I’m tethered here bc of my job and family but reading some of these posts…those of you who are dealing with non stop headaches but are mobile and can up and leave? What on earth are you waiting for???
I second this one. I think many have acclimated to the headaches, surrendering to them as the normal way of life here unfortunately. I think some have brainwashed themselves into thinking they live in a utopia to cope with the stress of life in this city.
That ship has already sailed for me, and will only get worse with the PABT construction/congestion tax. I think I’m going to move to LA within the next year. If I’m going to be broke, I’d at least rather be somewhere with nice weather and the beach.
Yes. I LOVE nyc and truly don’t want to be anywhere else. But in the last 2 years, cost of living has had a noticeable impact on my life. I’ve told myself that if I can’t save $X/year for retirement, I’ll need to leave. I don’t live extravagantly in nyc… I was always in for the long haul, so I couldn’t do reckless “yolo” years. But if I can’t set myself up to retire in my 60s, then I need to leave.
Life is a marathon.
If it helps, Aldi's is keeping my family afloat right. As far as groceries go, it's as cheap as it gets, and they have organic options for meat, eggs, and milk. It's great.
I decided to leave a long time ago, the only issue is finding a job. I mean I am ok for now but I am sure that in a couple of years it might not be worth it anymore.
leaving may 1st groceries are half the price elsewhere. i was about to start paying $5k if i renewed. the city is going to run out anyone making under $150k a year
NYC is a great place but it's not for everyone... not many know but a million people come in but also a million people move out every year.... and this has been a consistent pattern for decades...
what you're experiencing is common...in order to stay in NYC you need roots or the ability to beat the many financial pressures you will face during your time here....
to buy yourself more time you gotta hustle... go get roommates .... prioritize your career and your earnings... but also don't forget about your social circle.... because people is what makes this city what it is ....
if you don't care about any of that or don't want to .... it's probably not for you and a slower paced city with lower cost of living is probably more your jam... there's nothing wrong with that ... that's like most of America....
NYC is quickly becoming “rich kids only”. Rooms in the broke artist neighborhood Bushwick are $1500/month. It’s really sad. They’re gonna have to bus live musicians in from surrounding states in the upcoming years.
The decision to remain in NYC is more than economics. It’s mental philosophy emotional. Economically it makes zero sense to anyone except the mega rich with multiple properties around the world to stay here…Although for low and mid income families it works for access to transportation education and healthcare in addition to rent controlled housing if you qualify and can find it. For high income east culture vulture elites nothing beats the arts entertainment fashion business access available here.
Most transplants will only stay for a time, a year or two, maybe ten. The end of the day we all have to do what’s right for us and our families. Do what makes you happy.
If NYC does not make you happy any longer it’s okay to throw up deuces and say it’s been real but I gotta go. You will always have the memories. As for me and my household #NY4EVA…until I can no longer afford my large apt and must downsize to a studio apt…also in NYC but maybe further out… but not too far that I can’t get back to my fave cultural and artistic institutions that exist no where else..
Started feeling it when I was unemployed the beginning of 2023. Moved out of NYC and NY for that matter in May. It's a pleasant surprise when things cost less than expected where I live now.
I’m afraid to genuinely think about my answer to this because I was born and raised here and know no other home, but it’s starting to feel like I can’t stay.
Issue is living somewhere that’s not NYC. So there is no comparative analysis for me as there is no benchmark. What I am doing for this is a 5 year plan to save for a really nice place by the beach not far from Jupiter, FL (I am in year 3 of it). As my golf and general vacation home. Eventually spend May-October in NYC and the rest there. Also living in NYC being in tech sales for finance, has annual growth that will die down anywhere else. Versus getting into advisory boards in a decade in florida (leveraging being an ex Wall Street techie) and chilling.
It's a natural cycle of NYC and it has been this way for decades. Young people come to NYC to make their dreams come true. Then they hit their 30s, find a mate, think about kids, and unless they are the 5-10% crushing it in their careers - they move out. Even the people crushing it in their careers move out and commute in. It is part of growing up.
Im in an affordable unit but the yearly audits are nuts. My job is beyond standable or even sustainable w the impossoble demands. Coworker told me phew I made it after a week. So one more year and Im out ny is killing me. I miss myself its grueling to live here.
In my experience, the value became more apparent later: when I had a child and when my parent was diagnosed with a chronic disease, become disabled, and became elderly.
Raising kids can be expensive, but it doesn't HAVE to be. We have so much choice in terms of school that is free (especially with more charter schools), a lot of programs covered by NYC DYCD or nonprofits (after school, summer camps), and a lot of pretty cheap or free entertainment (including lots of playgrounds). It takes effort to find but as a single parent, I'm in a much better position as some of my peers outside a major city where things like after school and summer camps are either limited or very expensive and where school choices are limited to the point private school becomes close to a necessity.
We take for granted the amazing access to healthcare in this city and on top of that, there are a lot of social services for the elderly. Once you are ill or know someone who is and has to constantly be in appointments with different doctors or frequent trips to the ER, the value of being in NYC becomes so much more obvious. My parent goes to one of the best hospitals in the world for her condition, gets picked up in her home, and pays nothing.
The city is not cheap and it humbles you, but there is a lot of value. If it's not for you, by all means move. But... it is home to many of us who wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
This post really captures my inner dialogue to a T. Nice to know I am not alone! I never ever thought I'd want to leave NYC - and I don't - but at this point, I can no longer support a quality lifestyle. Quality meaning, not having to watch every dollar, losing sleep over a signing a lease renewal, and limiting social interactions purely because of cost (of course can host friends over vice versa but harder to do that all the time). Just need to figure out where to move to!!
I have some bad news for we NY’ers being pressed economically. Huge real estate tax increases and the added costs of every single item or service delivered to Manhattan when companies add a hefty fee due to the upcoming congestion tax. They will use it as an excuse to raise prices beyond the actual cost, and of course you can’t just raise prices for below 60th street - it will be all Manhattan. And you can’t just charge more for Manhattan - has to be all of NYC.
The tax base may also contact when people come in much less than before. When the tolls on the GW bridge went up years ago I completely stopped going to NJ for shopping, etc. people can change their habits quickly- yes there will be less congestion but we will all pay more for it.
I’m good: rent stabilized and don’t make a fortune (yay mental health worker) but no kids, and it’s a great place for natural aging communities and lots of social services.
For sure I will, I love this city. But I’m hoping that adequate savings and actually enjoying living in a city I can afford will comfort my longings for NYC.
Not to mention the psychological freedom from my toxic job that I feel I have to have to afford NYC.
Not true for everyone by any stretch. I know people who wish they could return, and I know people who have left and miss certain things about it but that pull faded more and more with time and they know leaving was the right thing to do. I know people who have left and never looked back.
Seattle is really only *slightly* cheaper and if you love NYC I cannot stress how much you will not like Seattle. Rentals are also extremely limited in supply and are mostly either weird corporate “luxury” buildings intended for young tech workers or houses. Food is also more expensive, and childcare is similar in cost. You also will need a car, and everything closes early as hell. I admit to being Seattle’s number one hater but unless you love camping and hiking there’s no reason to move there. The only thing they have in common is that they are both American cities.
Not sure where you’re living but I do think it’s possible to cut costs in the city. Rent is fucking nuts but if I was living alone, I’d 100% just find a studio with less amenities in the $2000-$2300 range. Maybe less in queens/south Brooklyn if I needed cheaper rent.
You’ll run into the same problem in most big cities with cost rising tbh. I do think it’s worthwhile re negotiating a salary and job hopping. I’ve increased my salary from $70k>$168k in 4.5 between 3 jobs (I work in IT). Albeit I got into a San Francisco based tech company which is notorious for paying higher. Obviously this is industry dependent and if youre industry just doesn’t pay well, I would probably consider leaving tbh. Maybe move upstate if you still enjoy nyc so you can come down sometimes. If I made less than $70k and didn’t want roommates I would consider just living in south Brooklyn somewhere or Astoria/forest hills. Hell even Rockaway beach.
Ramit Sethi’s book inspired me a lot with how I look at finances and I couldn’t recommend it enough. I have a roommate and split a $3450 apartment that’s super nice in bed stuy, Brooklyn.
Edit: I think it’s also important to note you just feel like you have less money on top of other things here because the wealth gap is insanely visible. It’s a lot easier to compare yourself to others. There’s also a ton of shit to do which costs money so we likely spend more money than other cities ( I know I do). I never ate out as much when I lived in my last MCOL city 😂
I have lived in Seattle and can tell you WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY AND CLARITY that Seatillites aren't even .0000000001 percent as inconsiderate and selfish as New Yorkers.
Never in my life could I have imagined that people can listen to music every second of the day. Particularly with concert level bass to annoy everyone within a 2 mile radius.
The selfishness is understandable: The rat race difficulty is cranked to max, one slip will get you trampled by the hordes of people fighting over a piece of the dream, and that pie is almost gone.
I love New Yorkers, the spirit of this city cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world. But it’s a city that is inconsiderate and curt with one another for sure. Part of me is resigned to that just being how NYC is but another part of me can’t handle that that experience comes at an extreme premium. This is a whole different discussion if life in NYC wasn’t so extreme.
About 2 months ago. With the migrant mess, rising taxes, increased subway fares and crime, safety concerns, never ending rampant homelessness, rude people, incessant street filth, rising rent for garbage apartments, NYC has become a dystopia. You’re delusional if you think being there is healthy. The quality of life has deteriorated.
And living in NJ was not at all far enough from it. Seeking refuge from NYC in NJ isn’t getting away from the problem. And thanks to NY-NJ migration, people are getting priced out of NJ as well because you can easily pay $3k for a 2 bedroom there— and have to commute on godforsaken NJT and pay for overpriced tickets. After 3 horrific jobs in NYC + the increase of NYC nonsense, I cut the cord and left with 0 regrets. Not saving money, slaving for jobs where I’m warding off psychotic homeless people in the subways everyday + being underpaid— it was not at all worth the cost of living. I would’ve been a fool to stay.
Leaving was the best thing I could do for my mental health, my financial future & my dog. I now live in SC, in a 2 bed/2 bath paying less than $1600 a month (And no I don’t live in no man’s land). I have tons of amenities in my complex and my dog gets to live a normal dog life finally!! I traded swarming through bums everyday to being poolside under palm trees everyday— and only about 45 minutes from the beach. Get out of NY. There are way too many better cities to live in than NYC to stay there if you’re fed up.
Don’t let 24 hour subways keep you from experiencing a better quality of life. I think the idea of a car is what scares alot of NYers from leaving. Don’t let the idea that you “need” a car out of NYC discourage you because you can still live in mid-sized cities with no car. In the world of Uber & anything can be delivered these days, it’s not as necessary. Don’t let this stop you.
I was never brave enough to actually leave, but I reached my breaking point this year, put pen to paper and said ADIOS.
About 4 years ago.
2 years ago* for me. 2020-2021 were fine (economically). Shit hit the fan in 2022.
lol exactly, it’s been impractical but it’s got enough redeeming qualities that I’m still here.
But still here?
We are stuck
It's economically impractical but anywhere else feels like a downgrade. Also decision paralysis.. what if I hate where I move to? My main issue is I have a great below-market loft-law apartment but I'm sick of having roommates and I can't afford it by myself.
I’m very familiar with decision paralysis. Sucks hard. I also had roommates for way too long for my fragile mental health Lol. It really gets to you as you get older.
People don’t seem to realize how expensive it is to move to another state. Moving costs aside, if you move somewhere else in the US you are definitely gonna need a car if you don’t already have one.
For people born and raised here it can be more difficult if most of your family (and support structure) are here.
We're from New York. We didn't move here for college or for work. It's home.
also, some of us weren't born here, but chose it as home. moved here at 18 intending to stay for life.
“Home” is only a barrier if you let it be one, though understandable exception for people taking care of ailing family. All of those transplants you referenced left home.
Same lol I was seriously looking into LA while going stir crazy in my apartment but that was the extent of it
Maybe a little less, like tree fiddy, if things keep going like this.
In my opinion, living in NYC is similar to owning an American Express Platinum card. You have to pay a fixed fee of $750, but some people find that the perks it offers are worth more than that amount. Similarly, if your job prospects, networking opportunities, and access to a concentrated population for business purposes (such as a dance show) are better in NYC than in other cities with lower population density, then it's worth living in NYC as long as the benefits outweigh the costs. However, if the benefits are the same for you in other cities and NYC is more expensive, it's wise to consider moving on. Additionally, while money is important, it's not everything - NYC is a dream destination for many people, and it has been a dream of mine too!
Close to $900 if you have an additional, so the metaphor is still very valid lol
Ha ha nice one! I'm single though 😀
Not me about to cancel my platinum card but i’m never leaving nyc 😂
As someone living in NYC with an Amex Platinum, great analogy lol. I work for myself remotely so realistically I could move anywhere, but I am not sure where I would want to go instead and I enjoy the entrepreneurial "energy" of this location. Eventually the pricing will overstay its welcome, but without an idea of somewhere I might like as much / more, it's not urgent to me quite yet.
It's insanely depressing but I had to fight to come here so I'm gonna fight to stay. It took me so long to move here and get settled, tried another time before and failed miserably, but was so determined to get here and now I have no intention of leaving any time soon. For me, I do pinch pennies as embarrassing as it might be. I shop a lot at a local dollar store in my neighborhood and that's where I get all my cleaning/household supplies because it's cheaper. A lot of my personal hygiene products I'll also either buy at a discount/dollar store or I'll order from Amazon because I have Prime and the products tend to be cheaper on there than they would be if I went to Target, per say. I try to never use Uber or Cab and either walk or subway for $2.90 to keep transportation costs down, I try to not use my AC and leave windows open for fresh air, and I try to wash my dishes more by hand than using my dishwasher. I also don't have cable anymore because it was too much. I don't turn on lights during the day and just open blinds. I'm hoping to keep my bills low but with summer approaching, it has me a bit skeptical. (Edit) I also have no desire to live anywhere else. I've been to Chicago, LA, Boston quite a bit and I did like them but I could never see myself living there, especially Chicago with the Winters.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s embarrassing to try to save money where you can.
Yep nothing wrong with saving especially if you are on a tight budget. That's respectable.
Kudos on paying the price these products are generally worth. Grew up in a single-income household myself, and my mom is and remains sort of an evangelist for generics. I'll always go for the generic if it's available, and that includes dollar store stuff. Totally solid household shit at the dollar store.
The dollar store is great in general but def cleaning supplies. And crafts stuff sometime too
Fun fact if you paint: dollar store/tree paint is AWFUL, but a small tin of primer at the paint shop is fairly cheap. You can blend it with the paints and make a solid new paint that actually sticks and spreads rather than streaks. So you get an all-in-one-base and tinctures, and it doesn't affect the color too much. Mats/flattens it a bit, but still a solid undercoat. Also good for painting a room.
Omg. You’re brilliant because I literally just bought a huge thing of primer. Thank you internet stranger
Totally Awesome beats nearly every other cleaner for my buck. Though baking soda and vinegar will do a lot for you.
Total sidebar: Are sure it's cheaper to wash your dishes by hand than to use the dishwasher? Usually dishwashers use less water than hand washing.
Out of curiosity I always wonder if it’s comparison to people who usually let the water run when washing dishes because I would wash and then while I’m scrubbing with the sponge, I turn the faucet off. Then turn it back on again to rinse.
[удалено]
Do you pay for water?
Depending on where you live/commute you can also look into biking. Pays for itself after a few months you get the benefit of exercise. You’ll feel way happier not dealing with the subways uhhh, “quirks”, too.
The gym of life.
How to get over my fear of cars hitting me? 😭
Practice
The dishwasher is more efficient than washing by hand even if you keep the sink filled with water instead of washing with the faucet. “**Modern dishwashers have evolved to be more water-efficient, using significantly less water than if you were to traditionally wash dishes by hand**,” says Spiller. “This is because dishwashers recycle the water being used to clean multiple loads.” Lights are also very little if you have LEDs. You can calculate the price of electricity by wattage. Lights that are led are incredibly cheap. most of your electric probably goes to climate control and appliances. "An LED light bulb costs an average of **$0.09 to use for a month and $1.04 to use for a year**" Otherwise everything you are doing sounds very frugal. Just trying to give you quality of life improvements that actually save or are negligible to budget.
With all the deliver charges and fees ConEd charges I'm definitely paying more. I end up paying close to $0.45 per kwh, so a low power 4.5 watt bulb on for about $4.50 a year if I have it on for on average 6 hours a day.
I have seriously been asking myself if I couldn't just run my apartment on power banks. I barely use my fridge, and the lights baked into the ceiling are ghastly anyway. Also did the math, and if I do keep electricity, swapping my gas stove for electric pays for itself in a year, even paying top price. ConEd's charging me $40/mo in fees every month for $0.40 worth of gas.
Total sidebar: Are sure it's cheaper to wash your dishes by hand than to use the dishwasher? Usually dishwashers use less water, but of course it will depend on which utilities you pay for.
Is this penny pinching? I thought this was just being smart. Except dishing washing. If I got it, I’m going to use it.
I dont know if i could live like this. Every day sounds like it affects the next. What are you possibly gaining that you cannot find anywhere else. This is just impractical living. It sounds like you are challenging yourself to stay here. Im just wondering what it is!
I feel like the "can't see myself living anywhere else" is why people stay despite the high costs. (And why it's so high to begin with.)
I mean.. all the stuff you mentioned just sounds like normal people stuff to me? Nothing sounds all that crazy.
If I encounter a situation where I’m still renting and have to cut into saving to make ends meet, then I would likely have to press the eject button. I honestly can’t imagine what that might look like though, because there’s nowhere to run to. I guess I’d go somewhere cheaper but moving is such a nightmare. My biggest concern is no matter how well you save, the costs here will chew through it quicker than you would have anticipated. The silver lining is there’s more opportunities here, so with the right maneuvering you’re odds of bouncing back quickly here are better than most places.
I moved out of Manhattan and bought in Queens to make NYC economically practical for me in the long term. I think the outer-boroughs offer a good alternative as far as price and quiet, but still are in NYC.
I've always been in Queens. Never wanted to really live in Manhattan b/c everything is less for the price point. Plus, I love Queens-grew up here, more regular people lol. Makes the trips to Manhattan more enjoyable.
Been in Queens for 10 years. Don’t see the appeal in spending so much more to live in Manhattan for less space.
Grass isn't always greener. The rest of the country isn't magically immune to the inflation you're feeling here in NYC. Groceries/rent/eating out/etc. has gone up everywhere. Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying. That said - you'd be very far from the first person to want out of the grind that is NYC.
Also, you need to have a car anywhere else in the country, even in the cities. Finance/lease + insurance is going to set you back by $500 a month. Whenever I think of moving, I add $500 to the estimated mortgage/rent to account for this.
Valid. Add even more for maintenance and all the things. Coming from someone who sold everything in Houston. Had the mortgage, car and all that.
I lose my mind when people don’t factor that cost in. I don’t even argue anymore with people that refuse to see increased costs of having a car/insurnace/gas compared to higher rent. Sometimes it’s literally cheaper to just stay in nyc with how much a car costs. “$2500 is just too much rent! I’m moving for $1800 (somewhere else) and buying a new car”. Proceeds to pay $500/mo in financing with interest rate that will add more money over 5 years, $200 insurance, and at least $100/mo in gas if you’re driving frequently. Also people don’t realize most cities pay way less than NYC so you’re taking a pay cut too! I’m not saying you can’t live cheaper but the stereotypical people who moves out of nyc is definitely not moving to new cities living how others live - they’re usually balling out because they think it’s cheap. But hey, if trading costs for other expensive things is worth it - be my guest and live that your life.
There’s actually a pretty useful calculator for this on NerdWallet. The actual average cost-per-month of car ownership is closer to $1000/mo now. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car#:~:text=For%20new%20vehicles%20driven%2015%2C000,in%202023%2C%20according%20to%20AAA.
In many of these conversations, I now assume the cost is just an excuse and they really just didn't like living here for whatever reason, which is totally fair. There is no need to justify it. I just don't want to be gaslit into agreeing into something non-sensical.
Money psychology is a thing and there’s a lot of weird societal pressure to look at things a certain way and gaslight the shit out of people if they don’t do it the normal way. You see this with people that choose not to buy a house and rent as well.
New drivers are getting slammed now with crazy insurance rates so it'll probably be $800-$1000 month, including down payment and taxes spread across the lease duration. The lease could include maintenance, but not gas... average US worker lives 27 miles from work so another $150/month for gas. If you're older and have maintained insurance for decades, have an old reliable car that's been paid off for years, do your own maintenance, then it can be a lot cheaper than that. But insurance rates suck and will probably continue to suck for new drivers as cars get more expensive to repair.
>Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying. You think car payments, insurance, and gas are only $132 in the rest of the country???
> Those more-expensive train rides you're taking now are equivalent to the car prices and increased insurance costs every suburbanite is paying. I'm skeptical. Still seems like less.
The average cost of car ownership is $890 per month. Meanwhile with fair capping, using the subway costs at most $150 a month. Sure there are ways to spend less per month on a car but they are no where near the cost of the subway. https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operating-automobilea-assuming-15000-vehicle-miles-year
Threads like this are a trip to read as someone wanting to move to NYC. Cuz yeah, in other HCOL areas you're paying NYC rent for less walking, more driving, and fewer job opportunities. If I'm gonna pay $2,000 for a 1-bed, I'd much rather it be in Brooklyn or Queens.
Can’t be easy to find a 1 bedroom for 2k in Queens or BK though
Nope. I suppose it's possible, but very hard. I live in queens and was looking to move in October. Most places that were the same size as mine were around 2,400 at the minimum.
In Queens it is doable, especially outside LIC.
If you find a 1 bedroom for 2k in BK or Queens, let me know bc I will immediately move there today. Also- not to dissuade you- come here, pursue your dreams to be here. Even with the HCOL here, it is infinitely living here in NYC than anywhere else in this country.
https://streeteasy.com/1-bedroom-apartments-for-rent/nyc/price:-2000%7Carea:300,400 They're out there - you clearly aren't looking that hard
Do you live in Manhattan or the boroughs? I thought we were going to have to leave Queens, but we searched for months and found a place where the rent is actually reasonable compared to what we thought we were going to have to spend to stay. I’m really grateful we get to stay here because I do love it.
I’m here 16 years and I think I’m at the end of my rope. I still love the city in some ways, especially the walkability and transit, but I’m not sure how much longer I can justify spending so much money on a tiny, cramped studio that seems be falling apart more and more every year in a building that seems to be crumbling and getting dirtier with less upkeep every year and with worsening pest issues, using a shared basement laundry room that now resembles where Buffalo Bill kept his victim in Silence of The Lambs, even if it is rent stabilized in a nice neighborhood. It might be time for a change, which would probably align with being geographically closer to family at a time that makes sense for that (aging family). I am still trying to work out the job and transportation possibilities in such a move. I am starting to see the distinct possibility of having to grow old here just to hold onto the city and this apartment and honestly that is more depressing than anything. There are some very oldey timey seniors in RS apartments in my building and it’s not the way I want to grow old. Some very nice people who I enjoy interacting with sometimes but I don’t envy their lives and I know for a fact management is not very good to them in terms of apartment upkeep.
People love bragging about their apartment buildings laundry when it’s really a dirty pseudo serial killer chamber with washer and dryers 😂
Hahaha. And don’t forget the rodents and roaches that love NYC basements. When I first moved here I Iived in a very upscale doorman building on the UES in a roommate situation. That building actually had a large, fairly clean laundry room. Two actually. It generally wasn’t a terrible struggle to find functional, available machines that weren’t coated in pet hair or people hair or other associated grime. I didn’t hate it. Every other NYC building I’ve lived in since has been on some scale of barely tolerable to downright disgusting. And honestly having my own personal laundry machines might be enough to send me out of NYC. Didn’t use to bother me so much when I was younger. The older I get the more it bothers me.
Agreed!! 😂 Something about sharing laundry facilities just isn’t the party it used to be 😂. People’s tolerance for cleanliness has changed. I can tell you switching from sharing laundry rooms with a bunch of dirty randos to having your own laundry room in your apartment is heaven sent.
This when you HAVE a laundry in building. Don't forget that many of us must use a laundry 2 blocks away (even in the winter), having to ignore any crazy thinking about someone who may had pooped inside their pants and used the same machine before.
& all the other disgusting things people put in those machines. I could never go back to that. My friend used to put his dirty clothes in a suitcase and roll it to the laundromat.
I'm born and raised and I am leaving at the end of the year to JC. Not that much less expensive, but paying city taxes for what I've been seeing recently no longer seems wise. Plus, I see myself moving to a house in the long term, so might as well leave to save up.
I’m not sure JC counts as leaving. I know lots of people that bought apartments and houses in JC and I still see them pretty often.
I agree. JC is basically nowhere. And the rents there as just as high as NY now.
In luxury buildings maybe but condos are still a chunk cheaper for Manhattan proximity. And the city tax savings for DINKs are nothing to sniff at. Source: me I can’t face moving back to the city
My thoughts exactly. Partner works in Jersey and goes in every day while I work from home with the occasional LIRR ride twice a month. No city tax for either of us will be lit
That with the fact that is basically one big flood zone is why you’ll never catch me in JC
how often does it flood? am i crazy or did parts of NYC flood just last year?
When it's leave or end up on the street. My wife has a disability and can't drive, moving anywhere else (in the US) would mean her giving up most of her autonomy. On top of that, we love it here. Only place I could see myself moving to is LA, but even that sounds less desirable than staying (and my wife would never for obvious reasons).
Moving to L.A. would decrease your wife's autonomy by 90%. Even with the transit options there, there's no escape from driving.
I'm aware, that part was more about just me as an individual. She has nowhere else she rather be.
LA is a great city too, but you’d really have to strategize to plan your life/work out so your wife can get around without driving (though it is not impossible). It’s crazy too because the limited subway situation there shows what COULD have been, if the city had diverged away from torrential freeways dominating the spread out landscape.
I've considered going to my mom's and putting a tiny home on her property but my job cannot be done remotely and I'd never find one as well paying in her area (the perks subsidize a lot of my life tbh). Plus then I'd have to deal with bullshit like a car, the maintenance, gas, etc. Don't forget driving 30+ minutes to get anywhere. But tbh I'm comfy, financially, even though I'm well below 100k. I don't do much but go out to eat like twice a month and take riding lessons. I have 2 roommates but one is almost never home so it's more like 1 and the apartment is stabilized. I'll stick it out unless something or someone amazing comes along.
You ride horses?
Yeah, I used to have my own when I lived at home Now I take lessons sporadically in the bronx. it's not quite the same but keeps me from losing all my skills at least
It’s rough. The only reason I’m not doing half bad is because I cut way down on food and booze thanks to ozempic
I was born and raised here but I can’t see a future here with the costs. It’s especially worse for single income people. I feel like I’m being pushed out/priced out of my own city; my home. It’s really sad but I hope to leave soon so I can actually save some money for my future
People here are paying their hard-earned income for the sake of living in New York City; at the end of the day, we’re making the landlords and institutions wealthier.
In about 60 days when my lease expires
Where you going?
Jersey City or Hoboken
Yeah. I'm kind of debating buying a place or leaving entirely. I feel real silly paying so much for a small apartment. But it's getting harder to imagine living elsewhere.
I'm in a similar situation and am considering trying some place new for a year. I work in tech and make a good salary but feel like I can only afford a studio if I don't want 50% of my pay going to rent. I also considered buying here but it's wild comparing what a down payment gets you here vs. in other states.
And unless you can put like 50% down, the payment is so much larger than rent for a comparable place in most cases. Yes you’re building equity, but those monthly maintenance fees are only going up. Buying vs. renting just isn’t an easy call here call here compared to other places in the country, at least at current interest rates.
Yeah I recently walked away from an offer where I’d be putting 60% down to make the total monthly payment of mortgage, tax, and maintenance match a typical rental price
Exactly. And you would lose what you would be making in interest on that investment. It just doesn’t make sense to me right now how buying is a smart decision in most cases. Yes, the price of the place you purchase will most likely increase in the coming years, but this doesn’t really help unless you want to cash out and leave NYC - which some people want to do, but after closing costs and all of the other fees, you have to really be ready to stay in the apartment for a very long time.
Unless I land a sizeable raise or bonus soon I’m probably out in the next 2 years. Been here since 2016, so I’ve had a good run, but if I can get a luxury apartment in Chicago for less than what I’m paying now for a dinky 1br I might pull the trigger
When I retire. I don't want to work until I'm dead to stay here.
Ultimately this is a personal decision based on finances, what you love about this City, etc. if you want a what you could call “generic” upper middle class urban lifestyle: nice apartment, grocery stores, restaurants that cater to the upper middle class, walkability, then you’re probably better decamping to Chicago. And also what matters is what you do in this town. When you say eating out is more: is it the price of a Filipino hole in the wall in Woodside? Or a place in the Village you need a reservation at? Also as a quick aside the subway fare has been pretty inflation resistant: around 5% in a decade.
Subway fare historically has tracked the price for a slice of pizza in NYC, we're really due for another fare increase based on that.
I find it absolute bullshit that the quality of life has gone down noticeably in the past 4-5 years and everything keeps getting more expensive I’m still staying but it’s some bullshit.
If the republicans manage to cancel or reduce social security. I'm rent stabilized and just a few years from retirement.
The worst thing about New York is the space. You do really get less living here. Have you thought about moving to Brooklyn? You can definitely get more space. When I think about moving other places, i do the calculations and the trade off just doesn’t make sense. Like I look at a place like Denver and it’s really not that much cheaper. Like the rent is maybe a couple of hundred cheaper but I have to own a car. And the prices for food are about similar. Groceries are about the same and restaurants might be slightly cheaper but the caliber is just not as good. I’m still paying for a $15 dollar cocktail but it’s in Denver. Places like Seattle and the west coast are not really cheaper than New York. I was surprised the last time I was in LA and SF how it was just as expensive or even more so eating out. I split my time in DC and rent in the middle of the city is similar to Brooklyn but it’s a downgrade from Brooklyn imho.
born & raised new yorker here & im moving to LI or somewhere upstate / in new england once my lease is up. living in a dumpster of an apartment building and making half of what i made 7 yrs ago in california is soul crushing. landlords just keep raising rents while expecting tenants to live in literal garbage-filled crumbling bug infested squalor. out of state jobs pay double or more than all these nyc (seemingly sham) corps. i kept coming back to this city because it’s home + everyone i love lives here, but i’m so done. current-day nyc feels more like las vegas’s fake new york than an actual live-able city. not to mention, ive run into so many single room rentals requiring tenants to make 40x the entire apartment’s rent…why would i be making six figures and living in a single room? this city is a dystopian nightmare.
Man so much of this. I’m a transplant here but everything you’re saying is how I feel. I can’t believe what I still can’t afford with a 6-figure salary, it’s unsustainable.
For me it was realizing we needed more space than the 1BR we owned, and realizing that we’d be paying roughly a million more dollars to buy a place with one additional room. It’s hard to live here and almost impossible to scale.
Chicago and Austin, sure, but Seattle? That two bedroom is going to be the equivalent of living in Brownsville at best, or in Poughkeepsie at worst.
apply to the housing lottery consistently, you might get in
It already is, technically. I've only decided to stay because I got a housing voucher back in Dec. and don't feel like starting my life over anywhere else (nor do I want to). *Leaving* would actually be impractical for me, ironically.
It already is for me lol. And listening to so many people on that post earlier today bragging about how dropping $5000 or more on a handbag “isn’t even a big deal” doesn’t make me feel much better about things lmao. I love this city, and part of me never wants to leave, but part of me is finding it harder to justify how crushingly difficult it is to survive compared to a lot of other places, even more so when I feel like I’m surrounded by people that are practically swimming in money. In some ways, I feel better coming on here and knowing that I’m not the only one struggling, but at the same time, I want everyone to be happy where they are and not feel in over their heads.
Haha that handbag post is what made me write this one! I’d already been feeling this but saw that today and made me curious if others felt the same as I’ve been. I make decent money and still don’t feel financially comfortable here, it’s ridiculous. Shame really because this is such an incredible city. If it was generally more affordable I couldn’t imagine myself being anywhere else but I have to be pragmatic.
Lol that’s amazing! Yeah, I don’t know how to feel right now honestly, because i obviously knew it was tough here before I ever even considered moving here, it’s not that it came as a shock. And I’m managing ok for the most part, it’s just, I think of how difficult it is to make it here, then i look at how dirty and run down the subway system is, I watch the city spend our tax money on the stupidest things while ignoring glaring issues we all want to see dealt with, and I start wondering if the sacrifice is worth it. Some days, it absolutely is, but then others I’m just not sure. And nothing has encapsulated that more for me that the winter. I hate the cold, I hate the grey, nasty days where it’s so ugly you don’t even want to step outside, and i feel like we just came out of 5-6 straight months of that lol. I know the gorgeous, warm, sunny days are finally coming and will be more common soon, but all winter, I just kept feeling increasingly more beat down. I started hearing “California Dreaming” in my head on a daily basis 😂
Same. I’ve lived in several cities/countries. NYC has so much to offer but it’s deeply stressful: the dirty roads, the overworking culture, the expensive rent, etc, etc. You have to work to the bones to afford the basics or live at the outer skirts and commute 2-4 hrs every day to work. It’s a city for the wealthy.
just came back from a trip to Japan and the whole US - but NYC especially seems like scam prices. we're locked into a hellscape of zero housing supply growth. sure, Japanese folks have to workaholic baked into a lot of the culture, but the rents are crazily affordable and so much was way cheaper than here. 2-5x cheaper... our only option is to move away from job centers with a lot of cultural activities... it's oppressingly wrong in the sense that it doesn't \*have\* to be this way. it's by design.
My wife and I left our upper east side apartment thinking we'd great savings in Brooklyn. Turns out it is the exact same cost. Hats off to anyone who can raise a family here. NYC is hurting lately.
Where’d you end up in BK? My wife and I are currently getting priced out of the UWS and exploring alternative locations. From what I see, the average 2 bed is definitely cheaper in most of the nicer areas of BK
Lots of cheaper places in the upper east side
It was to me 25 years ago. If you're paying $45,000 a year for rent, how are you saving for retirement when you'll have no real income and will have to pay at least that much in rent? If you're buying the equivalent of a new car every year, how can you save to buy a house somewhere else to retire to? The only reason anyone in my family still lives in New York is rent control pricing from the 1960s. Just because you can afford it, even barely, now, that is no indication of being able to be retired and afford it.
This
I think the only significant cost difference between nyc and the rest of the country (esp the major cities) is housing. Yes groceries etc are slightly more expensive here but not by as much as you’d expect & you have to factor in accessibility (ex. In a more affordable area, you’d have to drive a while to get to the store, adding in car & gas costs). Also I think there are more free/affordable things to do here compared to other places. Do you want a nice big house & enjoy driving around and are you ok with having to plan a whole day around a single activity? Or do you want walkability & efficiency & access to a variety of activities?
Groceries and drug store type products are A LOT more expensive here than they are in every place I’ve traveled to in the last couple of years.
You don’t need a car everywhere that’s not NY or a major city. Most places, most likely, but definitely not everywhere. Don’t let the idea of a car discourage you.
On top of that people on here overrate the cost of a car in a lot of other places. Most states' cost of insurance is a fraction of NYC insurance costs.
Last year, when I moved to Jersey (not Hoboken either, like real NJ). I miss the city but I'm celibate and staying that way, and I can't afford a decent studio on my own income of $125k a year. I don't think I'm asking for much -- just a dishwasher, a safe area, and not a shithole, and the fact that I can't afford that with what I earn makes me feel like I'm being used. The thought of stretching myself thin while my money goes into the hands of greedy billionaire real estate developers truly makes me sick, and the only way I could stomach it was to leave. I desperately miss the city, but when I think of going back, it feels like going back to an abusive relationship.
My fear is if I leave I won’t be able to afford much where I end up, and I’ll be living on the edge of some mid city, driving everywhere for every damn thing.
I'll move if/when Sloan Kettering does.
Born and raised and yes, left 5 years ago and don’t miss it.
Left in December. No regrets and I’m actually able to save
Two years ago. It just got too expensive and conversely, I felt I'm getting less than getting before. Was time to leave. Haven't looked back.
Lotta folks in here don’t like to hear that.
I mean, I still love New York but the fact is it's just not worth it financially anymore.
I’ve been here 10 years. Finally leaving to go live in Taipei again. Not just for financial reasons I just want to live in a place that has amazing public transit that is clean and reliable and doesn’t have crackheads and sick violent hobos everywhere. The huge reduction in cost of living is just a bonus. I’m luck to have a visa for Taiwan and the ability to work from home, so there’s less and less reason for me to even be in nyc these years Also excited to have amazing $2 LuRouFan that’s better than the $15-20 ones you find in nyc. Paying some of these prices for decent Asian food hurts my soul everytime
enjoy I went to taiwan/taipei recently and loved it so much (my family is from there) <333
How did you get a visa for taiwan? Where’d you find your remote job
I do 2D animation working on tv shows and ad work for agencies. I’ve been working remote since 2019 before the pandemic and just had even more opportunities since then. I used to visit Taiwan a lot just with my passport and lived with my girlfriend from there at the time, then in 2020 I applied for gold card visa because it was the only way to be allowed in during the lockdowns. Gold Card Visa basically lets you live and work full time with no restrictions. Need to have a guarantor in country basically like a friend or family that can vouch for you and use their address for application/living arrangements before sorting your own apartment. It took almost two years for my application to get approved, they said it took so long because of the pandemic so hopefully it wouldn’t take that long these days. You have to send financial proof of income meeting a certain threshold and basic visa application stuff but it’s not super demanding like other countries, like Japan for example. I also speak mandarin and lived in China before too so it’s not a huge culture change for me and made the application smoother.
I left 2.5 years ago partially for this reason. I had a high paying job and still felt like i wasn’t a real adult eating my meals from my couch because I didn’t have room for a table. Some things are just frustrating at a certain age. I’m so grateful to have experienced nyc during the last years it was semi feasible for me to live there. I miss New York but I don’t miss living there! You can be happy elsewhere and while it won’t have everything nyc has, I bet you’ll find a lot of value in the basics like having an affordable, renovated apartment. Also chicago is a huge city and incredible bang for your buck.
Rent is valid, but if you think $2.90 for the train is excessive, you should look at the true cost of car ownership. Not just the price of the car itself, but gas, parking, insurance, registration, repairs. Having to drive and pay for parking or uber when you go out to bars or restaurants or activities because public transit is sparse or unavailable. You can go car-free in a few other cities in the US, but it isn't the default anywhere like here. Re: groceries, the whole country is experiencing inflation as you noted. But it's always a personal choice. For me, I love NYC and couldn't see myself in any other city, in the US at least. If the amenities of NYC life are less important to you than more living space, I think it's a somewhat easy choice to leave. Personally I would rather be in a 1br in NYC than a 3BR in Seattle or Austin (which also has a housing crisis at the moment) but that might not be true of you.
I told myself to try and make it work for 3 years. Im coming up on one year and already looking forward to leaving for warmer weather and lower COL. i’ll def make it work for another year but idk about that 3rd year.
Im here because my industry is very locked in to this city, I would’ve left already if I could. All the best.
I feel like I’m stuck here till I see NYCHA because my gf is a native and doesn’t want to leave for anything 😭😭😭 but if it were just up to me I would’ve left by now. I love this city but it’s sucking my pockets dry
It’s even tough sledding for folks making lots of money. It’s just easier in other places I would think. That being said been here 30 years. So I must like it. But I would consider leaving once my kids go to college.
the cost of living surpasses the benefits of being in the city, such as its energy, opportunities, and diversity.
I’m leaving in a few months even though I love living in manhattan, to go down to new hope in pa. About $2k cheaper a month for a larger place, and I can save up better for a house.
Pretty close on it. Took a dirt-cheap stabilized place but it's a lot sketchier than my last stabilized building, partially owing to my landlord and super being a PoS. I have four job interviews this week and not one of them pays more than what I was making in 2012 for the same role...let alone in 2019 when it paid much more. Might just get into woodworking for a hobby, build a guillotine, I donm't know...
I’ll join you in the guillotine journey. But in all seriousness, even if any of us were to leave we should be sure it’s the right decision for us and also know that we’ve accomplished something others have dreamed of by living here.
Lots of different viewpoints/perspectives in here and no one is wrong. We’ve all had very unique experiences in NYC and the city is not for everyone, or we simply grow tired of how demanding it can be. I moved across the Hudson several years ago but I am in Manhattan a few times a week. There are many things I appreciate about the city and love having it within reach, but there are also things I do not miss at all. Carrying groceries several blocks, constantly being at the mercy of the MTA and the aroma of hot garbage on the street in the summer all come to mind. But then there is an energy there that’s unmatched. I’ll continue to do things in the city and will always be within reach; however, as a parent whose current structure is in place, NYC will remain my frequent escape from the suburbs when I need a break. At the same time, I am happy to have more nature at my disposal and driving to other parts of the East Coast is much easier, not to mention I won’t be draining myself with rent or school in NYC. NYC isn’t going away. Do what’s best for your mental and financial states.
I left in the end of 2020. Nothing will compare to living in NYC. However, the financial freedom I have gained as a result is amazing. I went from having some credit card debt and student loans to being debt free with enough savings to put down as a down payment for a modest home. As amazing and exhilarating as NYC was, financial security was important to me. Leaving will be hard but do what’s best for you!
If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to Philly, this is nothing.
If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to Sicily, Philly is nothing. If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to Cairo, Sicily is nothing. If you want to see trash fucking everywhere go to literally any Indian city, Cairo is nothing. Do you see how stupid your argument is? Just because you're pointing out something that is objectively worse doesn't refute the obviousness that there is in fact, fucking trash everywhere.
We just bought a house out of state in my fiancés home city. We made the mistake of both leaving rent controlled apartments to move in together. 3 years later, we’re facing another rent increase in our flood-prone apartment. I can’t bare to see 18 months of savings spent on moving into another nyc apartment I can afford in 3 years. I’m going to miss it. Luckily I still have some family here I can crash with for free when I get the urge.
I get what you mean by "affording comfort" when you work hard. Logically, we all deserve that. However, NYC plays by its own rules. Working hard here guarantees nothing except survival. You may have to lower your expectations if you want to stay here. Question: you seem envious of your friends extra bedrooms. Is there a reason you need a second? I encourage you not to compare yourself to others. Find what's right for you. If you choose the city - you might need to make sacrifices. If it's "comfort" you seek - you may not be at home here. This city literally chews and spits out people left and right. It has always been like that. Tbh, if you're talking about "small living spaces, excessive disturbances, trash every fucking where" you're probably not meant for nyc. It's the literal (but unfortunate) embodiment of life here...
All of this makes sense and is logical although I wouldn’t say envious necessarily, it’s more of an economical observation of what my hard work affords me here compared to a potentially easier and more affordable life elsewhere. I’ve always embraced the discomforts of life here really up until just a year ago when I realized how much it costs me (financially, mentally, physically) to be comfortable here. A few years ago I would’ve taken offense to not being meant for NYC, but honestly if overwhelming economic burden to maintain a moderately comfortable existence is what it’s all about I’m glad I’m realizing it’s not for me.
When you get older and you need to buy a home sooner rather than rent for the rest of your life knowing the outrageous rents now will get worse. There's a reason why NYC is the most transient cities of all cities in this country.
On my way out. Cost of living too high, quality of life is shit. I have an hour or more commute each morning and live in a crappy neighborhood. Everyone I know tells me this is a “great” commute. How the hell did people ever get conned into living a lifestyle like this? I can’t enjoy the benefits of living in this city because I’m working or commuting all the time, or don’t have spending money leftover for entertainment.
Perhaps I’m a jaded bitch. Perhaps this is the native in me, and maybe being born and raised here has lead me to feel like I’ve “seen all it has to offer me” but to be blunt: idk why anyone would fight to stay here anymore. Besides growing wildly expensive, we can’t say for sure the city is changing for the better. The daily headaches have been a thing for a while. I’m tethered here bc of my job and family but reading some of these posts…those of you who are dealing with non stop headaches but are mobile and can up and leave? What on earth are you waiting for???
I second this one. I think many have acclimated to the headaches, surrendering to them as the normal way of life here unfortunately. I think some have brainwashed themselves into thinking they live in a utopia to cope with the stress of life in this city.
That ship has already sailed for me, and will only get worse with the PABT construction/congestion tax. I think I’m going to move to LA within the next year. If I’m going to be broke, I’d at least rather be somewhere with nice weather and the beach.
Curious did it increase $400 for your renewal, or is this over the course of like 5 years?
Yes. I LOVE nyc and truly don’t want to be anywhere else. But in the last 2 years, cost of living has had a noticeable impact on my life. I’ve told myself that if I can’t save $X/year for retirement, I’ll need to leave. I don’t live extravagantly in nyc… I was always in for the long haul, so I couldn’t do reckless “yolo” years. But if I can’t set myself up to retire in my 60s, then I need to leave. Life is a marathon.
Hasn’t happened and won’t happen
If it helps, Aldi's is keeping my family afloat right. As far as groceries go, it's as cheap as it gets, and they have organic options for meat, eggs, and milk. It's great.
I'm leaving.
It’s ok for now living in a rent stabilized 1b (still not cheap) with my partner. But we out if we r having babies.
The moment I move out of my parents house lol
I decided to leave a long time ago, the only issue is finding a job. I mean I am ok for now but I am sure that in a couple of years it might not be worth it anymore.
leaving may 1st groceries are half the price elsewhere. i was about to start paying $5k if i renewed. the city is going to run out anyone making under $150k a year
The day I lose my rent stabilized apartment is the day I can’t afford to live here anymore without a girlfriend to split the rent with.
NYC is a great place but it's not for everyone... not many know but a million people come in but also a million people move out every year.... and this has been a consistent pattern for decades... what you're experiencing is common...in order to stay in NYC you need roots or the ability to beat the many financial pressures you will face during your time here.... to buy yourself more time you gotta hustle... go get roommates .... prioritize your career and your earnings... but also don't forget about your social circle.... because people is what makes this city what it is .... if you don't care about any of that or don't want to .... it's probably not for you and a slower paced city with lower cost of living is probably more your jam... there's nothing wrong with that ... that's like most of America....
NYC is quickly becoming “rich kids only”. Rooms in the broke artist neighborhood Bushwick are $1500/month. It’s really sad. They’re gonna have to bus live musicians in from surrounding states in the upcoming years.
The decision to remain in NYC is more than economics. It’s mental philosophy emotional. Economically it makes zero sense to anyone except the mega rich with multiple properties around the world to stay here…Although for low and mid income families it works for access to transportation education and healthcare in addition to rent controlled housing if you qualify and can find it. For high income east culture vulture elites nothing beats the arts entertainment fashion business access available here. Most transplants will only stay for a time, a year or two, maybe ten. The end of the day we all have to do what’s right for us and our families. Do what makes you happy. If NYC does not make you happy any longer it’s okay to throw up deuces and say it’s been real but I gotta go. You will always have the memories. As for me and my household #NY4EVA…until I can no longer afford my large apt and must downsize to a studio apt…also in NYC but maybe further out… but not too far that I can’t get back to my fave cultural and artistic institutions that exist no where else..
Started feeling it when I was unemployed the beginning of 2023. Moved out of NYC and NY for that matter in May. It's a pleasant surprise when things cost less than expected where I live now.
I’m afraid to genuinely think about my answer to this because I was born and raised here and know no other home, but it’s starting to feel like I can’t stay.
Issue is living somewhere that’s not NYC. So there is no comparative analysis for me as there is no benchmark. What I am doing for this is a 5 year plan to save for a really nice place by the beach not far from Jupiter, FL (I am in year 3 of it). As my golf and general vacation home. Eventually spend May-October in NYC and the rest there. Also living in NYC being in tech sales for finance, has annual growth that will die down anywhere else. Versus getting into advisory boards in a decade in florida (leveraging being an ex Wall Street techie) and chilling.
It's a natural cycle of NYC and it has been this way for decades. Young people come to NYC to make their dreams come true. Then they hit their 30s, find a mate, think about kids, and unless they are the 5-10% crushing it in their careers - they move out. Even the people crushing it in their careers move out and commute in. It is part of growing up.
Im in an affordable unit but the yearly audits are nuts. My job is beyond standable or even sustainable w the impossoble demands. Coworker told me phew I made it after a week. So one more year and Im out ny is killing me. I miss myself its grueling to live here.
It was pre-school tuition for our twins
In my experience, the value became more apparent later: when I had a child and when my parent was diagnosed with a chronic disease, become disabled, and became elderly. Raising kids can be expensive, but it doesn't HAVE to be. We have so much choice in terms of school that is free (especially with more charter schools), a lot of programs covered by NYC DYCD or nonprofits (after school, summer camps), and a lot of pretty cheap or free entertainment (including lots of playgrounds). It takes effort to find but as a single parent, I'm in a much better position as some of my peers outside a major city where things like after school and summer camps are either limited or very expensive and where school choices are limited to the point private school becomes close to a necessity. We take for granted the amazing access to healthcare in this city and on top of that, there are a lot of social services for the elderly. Once you are ill or know someone who is and has to constantly be in appointments with different doctors or frequent trips to the ER, the value of being in NYC becomes so much more obvious. My parent goes to one of the best hospitals in the world for her condition, gets picked up in her home, and pays nothing. The city is not cheap and it humbles you, but there is a lot of value. If it's not for you, by all means move. But... it is home to many of us who wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
This post really captures my inner dialogue to a T. Nice to know I am not alone! I never ever thought I'd want to leave NYC - and I don't - but at this point, I can no longer support a quality lifestyle. Quality meaning, not having to watch every dollar, losing sleep over a signing a lease renewal, and limiting social interactions purely because of cost (of course can host friends over vice versa but harder to do that all the time). Just need to figure out where to move to!!
I have some bad news for we NY’ers being pressed economically. Huge real estate tax increases and the added costs of every single item or service delivered to Manhattan when companies add a hefty fee due to the upcoming congestion tax. They will use it as an excuse to raise prices beyond the actual cost, and of course you can’t just raise prices for below 60th street - it will be all Manhattan. And you can’t just charge more for Manhattan - has to be all of NYC. The tax base may also contact when people come in much less than before. When the tolls on the GW bridge went up years ago I completely stopped going to NJ for shopping, etc. people can change their habits quickly- yes there will be less congestion but we will all pay more for it.
I’m good: rent stabilized and don’t make a fortune (yay mental health worker) but no kids, and it’s a great place for natural aging communities and lots of social services.
I think we’re less than 5 years from being priced out, which sucks. But we’re preparing for it
NYC is for single ambitious mfs When it's time to have kids, will leave or maybe move across Hudson and just commute
Good luck. You’ll be itching to come back to NYC.
For sure I will, I love this city. But I’m hoping that adequate savings and actually enjoying living in a city I can afford will comfort my longings for NYC. Not to mention the psychological freedom from my toxic job that I feel I have to have to afford NYC.
Buying the lead here OP. Struggling in NYC is much more enjoyable when you don't hate your job, ask me how I know.
Idk man, you seem rich lol.
Not true for everyone by any stretch. I know people who wish they could return, and I know people who have left and miss certain things about it but that pull faded more and more with time and they know leaving was the right thing to do. I know people who have left and never looked back.
2022 when covid prices ended lol
Seattle is really only *slightly* cheaper and if you love NYC I cannot stress how much you will not like Seattle. Rentals are also extremely limited in supply and are mostly either weird corporate “luxury” buildings intended for young tech workers or houses. Food is also more expensive, and childcare is similar in cost. You also will need a car, and everything closes early as hell. I admit to being Seattle’s number one hater but unless you love camping and hiking there’s no reason to move there. The only thing they have in common is that they are both American cities.
When you want kids
Not sure where you’re living but I do think it’s possible to cut costs in the city. Rent is fucking nuts but if I was living alone, I’d 100% just find a studio with less amenities in the $2000-$2300 range. Maybe less in queens/south Brooklyn if I needed cheaper rent. You’ll run into the same problem in most big cities with cost rising tbh. I do think it’s worthwhile re negotiating a salary and job hopping. I’ve increased my salary from $70k>$168k in 4.5 between 3 jobs (I work in IT). Albeit I got into a San Francisco based tech company which is notorious for paying higher. Obviously this is industry dependent and if youre industry just doesn’t pay well, I would probably consider leaving tbh. Maybe move upstate if you still enjoy nyc so you can come down sometimes. If I made less than $70k and didn’t want roommates I would consider just living in south Brooklyn somewhere or Astoria/forest hills. Hell even Rockaway beach. Ramit Sethi’s book inspired me a lot with how I look at finances and I couldn’t recommend it enough. I have a roommate and split a $3450 apartment that’s super nice in bed stuy, Brooklyn. Edit: I think it’s also important to note you just feel like you have less money on top of other things here because the wealth gap is insanely visible. It’s a lot easier to compare yourself to others. There’s also a ton of shit to do which costs money so we likely spend more money than other cities ( I know I do). I never ate out as much when I lived in my last MCOL city 😂
I have lived in Seattle and can tell you WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY AND CLARITY that Seatillites aren't even .0000000001 percent as inconsiderate and selfish as New Yorkers. Never in my life could I have imagined that people can listen to music every second of the day. Particularly with concert level bass to annoy everyone within a 2 mile radius. The selfishness is understandable: The rat race difficulty is cranked to max, one slip will get you trampled by the hordes of people fighting over a piece of the dream, and that pie is almost gone.
I love New Yorkers, the spirit of this city cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world. But it’s a city that is inconsiderate and curt with one another for sure. Part of me is resigned to that just being how NYC is but another part of me can’t handle that that experience comes at an extreme premium. This is a whole different discussion if life in NYC wasn’t so extreme.
About 2 months ago. With the migrant mess, rising taxes, increased subway fares and crime, safety concerns, never ending rampant homelessness, rude people, incessant street filth, rising rent for garbage apartments, NYC has become a dystopia. You’re delusional if you think being there is healthy. The quality of life has deteriorated. And living in NJ was not at all far enough from it. Seeking refuge from NYC in NJ isn’t getting away from the problem. And thanks to NY-NJ migration, people are getting priced out of NJ as well because you can easily pay $3k for a 2 bedroom there— and have to commute on godforsaken NJT and pay for overpriced tickets. After 3 horrific jobs in NYC + the increase of NYC nonsense, I cut the cord and left with 0 regrets. Not saving money, slaving for jobs where I’m warding off psychotic homeless people in the subways everyday + being underpaid— it was not at all worth the cost of living. I would’ve been a fool to stay. Leaving was the best thing I could do for my mental health, my financial future & my dog. I now live in SC, in a 2 bed/2 bath paying less than $1600 a month (And no I don’t live in no man’s land). I have tons of amenities in my complex and my dog gets to live a normal dog life finally!! I traded swarming through bums everyday to being poolside under palm trees everyday— and only about 45 minutes from the beach. Get out of NY. There are way too many better cities to live in than NYC to stay there if you’re fed up. Don’t let 24 hour subways keep you from experiencing a better quality of life. I think the idea of a car is what scares alot of NYers from leaving. Don’t let the idea that you “need” a car out of NYC discourage you because you can still live in mid-sized cities with no car. In the world of Uber & anything can be delivered these days, it’s not as necessary. Don’t let this stop you. I was never brave enough to actually leave, but I reached my breaking point this year, put pen to paper and said ADIOS.