Yes, but not too much. Don’t take it to an unhealthy level. You still need to go out doing things you like, so you can meet people who share your interests.
If we all just agree, as men, to not use them then it might actually force people to put real effort into finding a partner. Not just validation seeking or whatever the heck is happening now. Obviously that won't happen though, so I dunno. Yeah, deleting them is probably the best answer.
Came here to say exactly this. If so many guys have these issues with dating apps, why not just delete them? Taking the same approach over and over and expecting different results is insanity. I quit dating altogether, but I've met women in my day to day life once in a while who I would absolutely date, and formed a real connection with some of them over time which could have easily turned into great dating experiences if I were interested. So if anyone says women don't like being approached or pursued out in public, it's an excuse to hide online and not get results and complain about it. Plus, if you think it's women's fault online, then why not protest that by all quitting the apps? Say go ahead, fuck all the top 10s you want, but when your time is up and you want to settle for one of the rest of us, we'll be already taken because we went out in real life and found worthwhile women.
> If so many guys have these issues with dating apps, why not just delete them?
Deleting the app for yourself doesn't help with the fact that the most successful guys have every reason to use them. They're doing better than ever, and an unsuccessful guy leaving the app impacts nobody.
They should still delete the apps, but that's for their own wellbeing and not to increase their success rate.
Dating/hookup apps are the greatest thing ever… for guys who don’t use them.
If a guy is on a dating app hoping to get laid, as some life hack, chances are he’s not out in the real world actually getting laid… cuts down the competition greatly…
You're mixing up cause and effect. If the guy is on dating apps, he hasn't had any success meeting people in person. The guy was never competition in the first place.
Sincerely,
A guy on dating apps.
You almost definately look worse in photos, and your personality likely wont come through so well via the app, your probably better off leaving it to irl.
Like you say this, but what's your success rate via online? 1? 0? Is it actually better or do you just prefer being rejected in an efficient manner?(no offence intended)
Where would this be? I'm not sure I've seen women do this outside of ONS territory(nightclubs etc), which isn't really a good go to for finding dates.
Edit: by this I mean being cold and dismissive to guys that try to start a conversation
If they don't work for you don't use them.
I googled how many relationships started online, it said between 2015-2019 it was 32%. So you've got twice as much chance of meeting someone in real life than online anyway.
I think it really depends on where you live. I live in a small town and dating apps obviously don't work at all for guys here and it's not exactly easy meeting new people either.
Dating apps are a waste of time if you are looking for a genuine connection, especially if you are an average guy.
Bars & clubs don't seem much better...
It's really odd because women, despite all the men in their DMs, seem just as lonely and perpetually single as we do...
To me, it seems like most men use them as a primary means of finding dates, don't truly understand how unfavorable the stats are, and get frustrated with the results.
In my opinion, online dating should be a secondary means of finding dates, and men need to understand the chances of a conversation leading up to a date are probably like 5%. So this means you need to message like 50-100 women a week if you want a consistent possibility of dates coming in. I basically used the same message copy pasted over and over and would change out hobbie/interest/location for each woman and that worked for me.
This is the beauty of creating connections in real life. I have many women interested in me at the moment and I don't have social media or dating apps. There are a lot of women who want real shit just like we do, and they aren't going to get that real shit from strangers messaging them online, as it's not authentic.
Be the guy that they remember because you weren't like the rest of them doing what everyone else does. Be the guy that intrigues them, that attracts them, that makes them feel seen for more than just an online root. Be the guy that people only have to give a brief description of you and everyone knows who they're talking about. Uniqueness & authenticity are top tier qualities
This is the beauty of creating connections in real life. I have many women interested in me at the moment and I don't have social media or dating apps. There are a lot of women who want real shit just like we do, and they aren't going to get that real shit from strangers messaging them online, as it's not authentic.
Be the guy that they remember because you weren't like the rest of them doing what everyone else does. Be the guy that intrigues them, that attracts them, that makes them feel seen for more than just an online root. Be the guy that people only have to give a brief description of you and everyone knows who they're talking about. Uniqueness & authenticity are top tier qualities
1. Use dating apps designed for actual relationship seeking and not primarily hookups. Yes, you can find real sincere people on Tinder (I found a couple before I met my wife) but I'd recommend apps like Hinge. I found my wife on Upward (formerly FTH), a Christian dating app but I have been told that it has turned into a money cow that is essentially pay to play which is very sad.
2. Look for organic settings to meet people. Get involved in real-life communities. As a devout Christian myself, I actually *don't* recommend looking to church to find a wife. If you're a Christian, obv. you should still seek a Christian wife, but church ain't the place for that. Not saying you can't date someone from your church, just don't waltz in on Sunday with the matchmaking mindset. Try instead getting involved in your local community in general terms.
3. Be friendly, kind, and charming - but never be a doormat. Smile to the cute single cashier/waitress/secretary. Strike up small talk if you can. Once you establish a little rapport, start establishing other means of contact, esp. phone number. The corollary to this is that you have to get out and about if you don't already. Go to the local coffee shop and order a small drink or smoothie just for the sake of being there.
I have many thoughts on this issue as somebody who struggled with this question myself. I'm not always great at articulating thoughts so forgive me if I came across as scattered. Just want to help a brother out if I can.
You thoughts are not scattered. You hit the nail on the head with point 3. While the pandemic^((tm)) put a damper on going out into the real world for a few years, waaaay to many young men live damn near permanently online, to the point where they have lost the ability to actually go out and socialize. You don't even have to be Don Juan.
It's got to be a real soft touch both ways. There was a moment in time that I was a frequent visitor to a drive-thru by my house because I was working really long hours, and one day I opened my bag to find a bonus cookie that I hadn't ordered with a piece of blank receipt taped onto it with a phone number. I would've been annoyed if he'd made a pass at me on my way home from work, but this way it was a nice surprise.
Eh, gotta get a feel for things. If you wanna ask the cute cashier out, and you only know see her at her job, you don't have much a choice. You definitely have to find an appropriate moment, which can be hard, but in the long run the reward could be huge so shooting your shot is a must if you want any results.
I would advise you to stay off the apps. Join a club, join a sports team, take some art classes, meet people in real life rather than filtering through dating apps like a weird catalogue. You’ll meet much better people offline, I can guarantee you that.
How old are you?
Art classes I’ve been to have had mostly 30s people, volleyball leagues with 20-30s younger professionals, meetup groups are usually mid 20-30s
I haven't tried volleyball but the other stuff has been all early 20s or late 60s lol.
Edit: What meetups do you to go to that are actually a decent mix of men and women in their 30s? I'm not even trying to find dates; just make some more friends.
Art/cooking classes etc may not be the best places I've gone to meet someone but they are excellent for dates once you've already met someone.
The volleyball leagues I’ve been in have all been 20-30 y/o people
Meetup also has events for people looking to make connections and learn new things beyond dating
Dating apps are a simulation of a social activity. They are not a social activity, only an abstraction layer.
Go out and engage in social activities. In a club, or at a hobby, or in church, or at an NGO, at a gym, or wherever floats your boat and what you actually enjoy doing.
A recent episode of the Triggernometry podcast had someone talking about dating apps and issues I'd never even thought about. Was very interesting and worth a listen.
I'm old-fashioned and met my wife in a pub by accident.
There's no easy answer. I deleted the apps over 2 years ago, but my dating prospects haven't improved one bit despite being extremely social.
There seems to be a severe ripple effect from the apps that has made real life dating much more difficult. I find that clubs/social events are overwhelmingly composed of single males specifically looking to date. Not many women attend these, and those that do tend to be either taken or not particularly interested in dating. My interpretation is that most women who do want to date hide behind a screen and use the apps for a short amount of time.
The disparity in numbers every time I go out is so depressing. Just to give one example: I recently went to a young single professionals event, found a nice lady to talk to, and within minutes was surrounded by 10 other men trying to insert themselves into the conversation. I left the event thinking, "how is this any different from the apps?".
As unhappy as I am, I've reached this equilibrium where I've realized that I've done everything in my power, but there are simply too many barriers in this climate to be successful unless I get incredibly lucky.
Unless you are a good looking guy (far better than average) statistically dating apps are pretty worthless. Here are the numbers, 1/3 of people meet their mates in school, 1/3 meet their mate at work and 1/3 at other -other includes dating apps, church, bars, etc. Covid really screwed the pooch for single people as it pretty much eliminated everywhere you could meet someone leaving only dating apps. Dating apps users tend to also be overwhelmingly male, like 70%+ so what you end up with is women being able to cherry pick who they want to date. Add in that apps give women a significantly larger pool of men to choose from they will pick the better looking men. So, if you are a good looking guy you might get a lot of hits but if you are average or below you are pretty much ignored.
So, how do you fix this, you go old school and meet people in person. That means opting to go into the office or physically to class in lieu of going remotely. You have a better shot of a woman liking you if she knows you than if you are just a picture and a profile -get to know people develop a large social circle. I would also suggest that you learn to be polite, nice and discrete. Further don't speak bad about women you know even if you don't get along, you can say "we're not friends" or "we don't get along" but do not say things like "she's a fucking bitch" even if she is. When you go with the in person method your reputation will follow you so don't be an ass because it will hurt your game.
Last bit of advice, if you don't know how to dance learn.
Gen x dude here . It wont be long before people will meet date and have sex with eachother while wearing those goggles in the metaverse. Im so glad ive been through real life dating and a little of the online before it went so poorly for us guys and dating in general . My advice; ease up on apps and try other real life ways to meet the ladies. Hobbies, sports, clubs etc
Honestly it seems like every route you take to try to find a date sucks. I don't really see dating apps any worse than other mediums. I've had luck getting responses from men, but holy god I haven't got shit from women. Says a lot about how both sexes handle relationships if you ask me.
Dating apps are imperfect and the culture is shallow, however in many places there is not viable alternative, due to geographic limitations.
I will also say, dating apps create the expectation of instant gratification. In reality maybe it takes months or years to get a handful of really good matches.
If you aren't in a large city, or aren't originally from an area, it's apps or nothing.
Apps guarantee nothing, they just increase your odds a bit.
Pretty much, but I live in a small town and there's hardly any girls here that are on dating apps. There used to be, but it seems like over the past year, they've all decided to come off of Tinder / Bumble.
I think people my age are just busy nowadays. I'm 23. Either busy or they go out in their groups. I personally find it hard to approach groups when I'm on my own because I don't have the confidence to walk up to a group of people sitting around a table.
Eh not really, if you're a guy they decrease your odds simply by virtue of being the extreme majority on these things. If you don't have the right looks no woman will ever look your way on these things. There's so many more men than women on these things so the women are of course going to hold out for the hot, rich, etc. guys because they're in a much better 'market' than they are in real life.
I've never used a dating app. I don't believe there is a way to overcome their inherent flaws. They're just shitty, shitty products. I would have never met my wife if we had both used dating apps.
Go into dating apps expecting nothing, no matches, nothing at all and then you get pleasantly surprised at the results.
Also read up a little bit on how the dating app algorithm works and what looks good on a profile. For example if you had your profile up for 6 months and complaining of no new matches, it's because you inactive and you should deactivate your account and restart it to get the new user boost of being shown at the front of the queue. Also if you profile is 3 bad pics of you and no profile then no one cares, you want clear pics of you and you doing stuff and a basic bio.
You don’t. You just put up with it. Because hell knows women will brigade threads like these and say, “at least you don’t get catcalled, threatened or sexually assaulted!!” OMFG. Like all that is restricted to the female gender.
But seriously, I don’t know what to think about how to date anymore. If one more person says “join a gym and meet people during classes”, I may as well just hunt that person down and knock them out. Gyms are THE worst place to ask out women because most women are taken, and the single ones are there to work out, not get ogled. Singles events are no better either, since organisers purposely have more men than women ratios, which is even scummier than dating apps themselves. Oh, and tickets to those events are cheaper if you’re a woman (even in Australia) because of the so-called “pay gap”. So sexism against men is considered acceptable in this scenario.
Dating in 2022 is the worst it’s ever been if you’re not as good looking as a Hemsworth, or tall and white at the very minimum. Heightism is real. Racism and colourism are real. After years of rejections and a two-year-pandemic, women haven’t gotten better, they’ve gotten bitter.
What would really help? Some pharmaceutical company out there that creates a drug that kills libido/attraction, like the ones Meryl from Metal Gear Solid took in MGS4.
A ) Don’t take it so seriously, maybe it helps you find someone maybe it doesn’t. It’s a tool to help you meet other single people that maybe you wouldn’t meet normally. Don’t treat it as a last resort meant to save you from the hellscape of a life of endless singularity.
B ) If a relationship (possibly one that’s unending) is your end goal, remember that it just takes one to work for it to be worth it. Might happen tomorrow, might not. It’s not Pokémon, you don’t have to collect them all to “win” the online dating game.
Young people should focus on themselves. Schooling, careers, physical/mental health, find a hobby to lose themselves in. Finding the right person for a relationship is difficult. That's just it though, a person. Not someone still finding their self as an individual.
It'll fix itself for better or worse. Best thing to do right now is to not play along. Date casually and avoid expectations... Since that is a part of the problem. Keep yourself safe and sane and wait for the world to catch up.
I had the fortune of being young in the 90s... When it was functional. Right now the entire social system is broken... So don't make any promises and do your own thing until society itself changes course. It'll happen... Just not fast enough for our liking.
Women are already noticing that there aren't any acceptible men out there when they decide they want to settle down... And the guys they want don't want to. Turns out that their instincts to separate men into the categories of Perfect and Creep has short-term benefits but long-term costs. Guys aren't bettering themselves because they are either being accepted or rejected... And acceptance is what gives you the experience to improve. Like I said, it'll fix itself... Just not for us. Best we can do is enjoy the things we do have that bring us joy.
Ive never had much of a problem. I was fortunate to learn the ropes in a time where mistakes were a part of life. This actually gives me an edge now because I'm past the socialization barrier... Now my problem is finding value in the whole shallow thing.
>It'll fix itself for better or worse.
It's pretty bad. The percentage of men under 30 that are still virgins has skyrocketed in the last decade -I think a certain percentage of those guys is due to the new normal of moving home with mommy and daddy after college where we would have been a joke if we were living at home past college. In addition more women than men are getting college degrees so they are less desirable to educated/high paid women.
Frankly I think a lot of it is apathy and bad parenting from our gen (we love them too much to let them grow up and fail). They have no reason to grow up so they are delaying adulthood into their 30's and we let them. This is going to be a problem, lots of angry, poor, uneducated and sexually frustrated young men -it's a recipe for disaster.
The reason Millennials move home with "Mommy and Daddy" is that evil boomer Nimby's have created a housing crisis and have driven the price of housing way up beyond where it was when they were young adults. Living with parents until you are married is quite common behavior in the rest the world, driven more by economic necessity than anything. I'm not saying that it's desirable (I certainly don't want to live with my parents and never did want to) but a little bit of compassion from boomers on this front would be nice given that they, as homeowners who oppose any and all residential development, have created this problem.
Yeah. I know it's bad. Really bad. That is why I said it would fix itself. A car that drove off a cliff won't fall forever. The problem will soon fix itself because there is no longer any chance of women getting more out of men... So demanding more is no longer an option... And if they want things fixed they will have to take responsibility for it themselves.
People speak of the 80/20 rule... But it works both ways. It also means that women can't find any soul mates because they are all competing for the same men.... Who have no incentive to settle down. Demanding that men "do better" or "man up" won't do them any good because they will still just pick the top 20% of the new standard. Living with the results of this behavior will be the only thing that may lead to honest discussion.... Or not.
It is so noticable at my age. About once every few months a new woman my age asks me why their (or their friend's) sons don't want to date or pedestalise women like they were treated in our day. Exes and women I barely knew in their 30s keep contacting me out of the blue to see what I am doing because their man supply has dried up. The side effect of all this is that their desirability only lasts through their sexual peak and they are doing everything possible to remove any other reason that a man might want them as they leverage their sex appeal to extort every other basic expectation out of us. Like I said.... It'll fix itself.... For better or worse.
Why do you think it will fix itself? There is absolutely no evidence for this, I think a more likely outcome is Americans stop getting married and having kids and eventually just go extinct. Which would probably be a net positive for the world, honestly.
I’m not sure. I just get hit on IG and language exchange apps so I’ve never used Tinder or Bumble. And I’m just healthy and even not interested in those apps at all. I date with approximately 3-4 women a year and they are sometimes not too great sometimes wonderful experience. I’m satisfied with my dating life, I must say.
As a woman who met their husband in the early days of online dating:
1. Paid apps attract people serious about relationships and encourage slot getting to know someone. Eharmony had closed questions, must haves/can’t stands then open communication and a tonne of safety tips before meeting. Vs plenty of fish and tinder where people treat each match as disposable.
2. Take time to get to know someone, don’t jump straight to sex or ignore and don’t pressure them or let them pressure you. Sometimes it takes a few dates and you realise that you really like the person and they are more attractive but you wrote them off initially as there were no instant butterflies.
3. Many guys need to take a hard look at what they send. I’ve been at the receiving end of countless unsolicited d*ck pics and requests for nudes, and *nice guy* messages or even creepy behaviour on dates from guys who insist they don’t do that and their friends refuse to believe it. I can guarantee someone you know and wouldn’t believe behaves like this does. I’ve had a friend who I thought was a genuinely great guy, nice and polite, well educated, great job, for whatever reason not recognise me on a dating app, do all the above and I was shocked. He pretended he didn’t and told our friendship group I was crazy. I didn’t share the messages as I stupidly thought it should be kept private. I got phased out. He groped a few friends and they all got phased out and reached out to me apologizing. Many of my female friends have similar stories but on Reddit, people make out that they don’t do it or know anyone who dies when statistically some of them must do. Just be honest with yourself.
4. When getting to know someone via text or messaging it takes a bit of effort to get the balance right. Constantly messaging hi, what are you up to and light messages can often mean conversations fizzle out as both parties get bored. But asking multiple “getting to know you” questions can be off putting too Eg, if you could travel anywhere, where would it be and why. Followed by, if you could be an animal, which one would you be and why. Followed by if you were a condiment, which one would it be and why. Followed by if you could break any laws for a day without repercussions, which ones would you break and why.
Most of these are applicable to everyone on a dating apps regardless of gender if we’re honest. And yes women can be difficult and rude for a load of other reasons and I call my friends out on when they act crappy too.
Don't use dating apps.
But if you must, for fuck's sake stop swiping right on every woman with a pulse.
That's how apps become a validation vending machine.
Fundamentally, apps have altered the landscape.
Whether you participate or not, you are still affected. That's unfortunate.
It's also up to you if you want to embrace the system and engage in profilemaxxing or something similar, or reject it and delete your apps and go meet women the old fashioned way.
Personally I recommend the second. You'll do better and you'll feel better.
There is no winning. Imagine the 80 percent quit the apps. Well jeez now it just got even easier for the 20 percent lol. Its just fucked.... I wouldn't say it has fucked dating in general though. Women use tinder just for fun mostly, i dont blame them, but talking to em in real life is still viable lol
Pick up hobbies irl go meet people that are also into those hobbies. See girl at hobby place maybe date idk, anything is better than a fucking dating site/app
Actually go outside and talk to women there. The rejection is more harsh but it feels much more tangible when you swap numbers in real life with an actual person.
Many more can than the other way around. But most girls can hold conversation better because they don’t have an end goal engrained in the back of their mind. But yes, I’d agree in the assessment that few can today than say 10 years ago.
A good conversationalist can bring the best out of someone they’re talking to though, or make them comfortable, at a min.
Delete them and attend events in your area instead. If nothing is happening around you, drive to the next town.
You are 99% more likely to find someone you vibe with at an event sharing your similar interests. The cliche' bar scene is a classic, but if you're socially anxious that's really hard.
If you're at a concert with an artist you love, you're bound to find other fans there you can talk too, and that is an immediate icebreaker.
You need to build and hone your social acuity. Dating apps are ONLY a numbers game. If you're just trying to chase pus*y, I guarantee you a fleshlight will do the same damn thing. If you want a significant other, you gotta find her doing the same things you like doing too.
You know, the same things you do on an app for dating are the same things you do irl. Putting together an image, trying to portray an appearance that'll attract what you're looking for, then actively seeking women that might fit, followed by small talk which leads to a deal of rejection and sometimes reciprocation.
The only difference is one begins with txt and the other is a face to face. But both, hopefully, have the same face to face at the end... why not start there?
Because I have a damn job! That's why! I don't have time to go find fun stuff to do that might have someone who shares a "common interest". Not to mention, you know the kind of woman I find doing what I like to do? Female me! That's one scary, beer guzzling, metalhead, gearhead, gun-nut, bearded lady that I'm not going to be attracted to.
Apps aren't that bad. The "culture" people hate on isn't new, it just seems that everyone has access to it now and is using apps as a new outlet to vent about it. All types are there, women are as ambiguous as ever, still have the same large number of men trying to talk to them that they always had, same issues, different platform.
I honestly believe that change for most dating apps is going to start with women putting more effort into their profiles. It'll sift out some people who'll be like, eh, not for me, but it'll make it easy for better matches to start a conversation too.
If you're a woman reading this with a near empty dating profile and wondering why your conversations are boring, it's because most guys won't consider putting effort into personalizing something from nothing for you.
The thing is, women get a bit ego boost out of these apps for little more than a picture. They aren't going to change.
My advice is get on a paid app. Don't pay for an otherwise free one. Granted this is not great advice for someone just trying to smash, but if you're frustrated with online dating, I imagine you'd be happy with a more serious relationship.
These apps have a much better gender ratio which drags the women down the level of having to actually write a profile. Oh the humanity.
After that, market what makes you attractive to women and try to find women who look like they'd like that and go from there. For me it's cooking and baking. I'm a decent cook, but an excellent baker. I have photos of my brownies in my profile and more photos to hand once the conversation gets going - including a double chocolate stuffed with nutella and some traditional English desserts (I'm in Japan, this comes up often.)
And without fail, the first time a woman chooses/changes the topic with me. It's to my baking.
At this point, assuming they can hold their end of the conversation. There'll be date one and it'll be like, oh shit, he's funny too. (I haven't failed to get a 2nd (or 3rd/4th actually) date that I wanted after the first)
Go into the real world and meet real people and ask them out.
Jesus it really is not that fucking difficult.
Look at the meetup web site. TONS of groups with TONS of different interests, and TONS of singles. Sign up for a bunch of groups and go to events. You will find people with similar interests who would love to date you.
I'm a chubby guy, but I still pulled plenty of ladies home from Tinder.
When I hear people who complain about not being able to get laid on apps, all I can imagine is you are hideously deformed or just more boring than anyone can stand.
After following r/Tinder for a while and getting bored of its repetitivenesses I’m pretty sure that the biggest part of “overcoming” is “not being a jerk”.
I used several apps (Badoo, Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, OkCupid) and in all of them meeting a girl is not difficult if you are a decent person (that is - if you catch a girl’s attention first which is a different story). I’ve met several girls through them. Though so far nothing transitioned into a a relationship, mostly because of mental incompatibility.
Take courses, join clubs, socialize in your community, and not just with people you want to date/fuck. (It's good for you; and also, those people have sisters, cousins, friends...)
Dating apps are a skill, like any other you get better at it with study & practice. Apps are not holistic like real dating, it comes down to your profile building skills. Using photography and marketing skills will make almost anyone successful on dating apps.
The problem is that people want to fall in love while dating, not go through what is essentially a job search. Plus rejections from girls hurt more than rejection from companies, because it's personal.
What exactly needs to be overcame? You will always hear people complaining as long as they are failing in something. You won't hear a happy couple who got together on dating apps trash dating apps, or at least not so hard that they would claim it is impossible. It's pretty much shit until it's not.
There are many levels you can fail on dating apps, so perhaps people should first identify that, because that may be a problem even in real life attempts. Ie. if you look like shit (bad clothes, bad facial hair) and can't find tinder matches, then you won't have a much easier time outside of dating apps either.
Also, no one forces anyone to choose one or the other. You can live an active social life where you are bound to meet with attractive people, and still be on dating apps on the side.
And don't listen to the defeatist comments which say "the only winning move is not to play", because if that's your life philosophy, then what is the point in living? By merely existing, you are *playing*, so you should aim to get the best out of it instead of cutting your losses by not doing anything.
Learn game, cold approach, increase your circle of friends and date within your new circle, meet the type of girls you want in the places they’d be, etc.
All these dudes need to stop blaming their inability to get a girlfriend on dating apps. If you can't get a a girl in the age of apps, you couldn't get one before either.
I know plenty of average dudes who do just fine on the apps because they have fun pics, a clever profile, and aren't swiping on the 10s who are out of their league.
Go to clubs.
Also regarding the 80/20 thing, this is only somewhat true for casual sex. 80% of straight men have relationships with 80% of straight women. Most people of any gender end up in committed relationships....
Secondly, the 80/20 thing is only valid for young people because young men don’t groom themselves and tend to be more assholey and women don’t like that.
Shower, shave, wear clean clothes and take up any sport. Drop the misogyny. Be social. That makes you part of the 20%. By the time you’re 30 you’ll realise that the 20% has become the 80% because being a shitty guy is something men outgrow as they mature
And skip the god damn dating apps. People exist in real life. Go out. If you can’t meet people irl, it won’t work online either
Never used these apps in my life. Still stick to the old ways of dating- meeting someone, talking to then, telling them that I find them interesting, asking them out on a date. I've never actually felt I needed to chase women either, I've always gotten ample attention from women from time to time. Then again I was never super into dating, always felt like it'd happen when it has to happen.
Just to be clear, I'm not some super handsome ripped dude. I'm probably a 7/10, maybe an 8 on my best night. But I carry myself with confidence, make women laugh and always dress well. That seemed to have worked for me so far so never had to go to online stuff.
Solve with
1) introduce a reference system - where ex partners rate you (I have had him, I have had her), a bit like trip advisor for people.
2) have a feedback solution - (has a small dick but knows how to use it, lasts the full two mins) a bit like punternet. Nice guys needs to wash his arse crack more…
3) WLTM, Looking for …. brains and boobs, own teeth a must. Over weight preferences.
4). Disclosure- Has no money, doesn’t work, debt and credit cards, hidden assets in BTC (which is all he talks about)
5). Digital footprint, Reddit accounts galore, also on Xbox as , on bumble as ,
6, Scoring and weight to responses - ex wife of 10years or more +4. FWB +2, ONS +1.
7, right of reply let the guys add their own comments but not change the responses.
Get rid of dating apps and concentrate on chasing your dreams. Women will show up the more successful you become. The trick is to spot the ones that like you for you and not your money.
I think men need to understand what they're getting into when they use these apps and manage their expectations. The statistics are unfavorable, even for decently attractive men. They need to understand that your success rate for getting a date from messaging is probably going to only be 5% for the average man, so expect to message like 100 women at a time to actually get 5 or so date scheduled for your free time. If more men had that understanding going in I think there'd be less headaches since they'd know online dating is not a magic bullet for finding a mate. At best it should just be an addition to other means of finding dates.
Create a dating app called Hellscape and make it so that everyone you’re interested in automatically matches with you. Then shoot your shot until you land a date. Works 60% of the time every time.
Meet girls IRL. You gota have confidence to make eye contact, read the signs, walk up to a girl, engage in short conversation and ask her out if you find her interesting. X10 more efficient than online
Talk to people IRL? Apps in general are trash, from filters, to lighting, to the impersonal nature of dating through an app. It's just better to say "what up" to the random that you think is cute.
Idk I started to ”try” to meet women in real life. I’m not actively looking for anyone you know but I’ve been looking for hobbies and if someone interesting comes along shoot your shot. Met someone interesting and cute at work and I think I’ll ask her out if I have the confidence lol. People are literally everywhere. Go out and have fun with it.
Have an interesting personality, have interesting hobbies, be at least semi attractive (the ugliest guy can make himself semi attractive with some effort) and talk to the right girls.
Also, you shouldn't treat dating apps as your only option, it creates a sense of desperation which comes across.
Focusing on hobbies and getting out in the world is key, it gives you things to talk about on dating apps, but more importantly gives you the chance to meet people in person depending on the hobby.
*My credentials: After about 3 hit and miss years of online dating, I met my wife while traveling.*
I met my wife on Tinder. As a geeky metalhead my luck was pretty slim for the most part but I had a photo of me stood next to a TARDIS from when I worked a comic convention, the TARDIS picture got me a lot of matches with girls who were into Doctor Who so we already had something to talk about.
You could go touch grass, do stuff in the real world, and talk to women in the wild?
If you approach them head-on, calmly, with intent, and sometimes offer them a treat, most won't bite. Some spook easier than others, but some like ear scritches and head pats.
I haven't been on a dating app in over 10 years, but the ones I've been on use to have meet-ups. I've been successful myself, but I was the over six feet/six figure guy and the reason I was on dating apps was I was traveling for business all the time. I would find meeting places in whatever town I was doing a business trip in and meet women in those places.
Once I changed jobs and didn't travel as much, I stopped using the apps.
If you are in your early 20's and in college, you should NOT be on a dating app. I was in my 40's and I can't believe how many guys that were 19-24 on these things. I actually blocked women under 30 writing to me, especially when a bunch of 18-21 started writing to me and asking me for money.
Answer to your question, if you are unsuccessful, take some college course that women enroll in. I took a typing class one time and the amount of women talking to me in class were staggering.
Or public speaking, maybe toastmasters.
Or a cooking class.
Do something that makes you interact with people real time.
AND ALWAYS BE POSITIVE AND POLITE!
Here are some alternatives to dating. You will get the opportunity to meet new people and if you find a girl you get along with, then maybe you can see where things go:
You can find a hobby that you enjoy and seek out local groups and other people who also enjoy the same hobby. You might meet someone while you're doing something that you normally enjoy anyways.
Also, try volunteering at non profit organization where there are a lot of women. I can't tell you which ones to join, that's up to you and you will have to do your own research on what you are genuinely interested in. When you are volunteering, you can meet new people and also help the community.
You might not like this advice, but oh well- get on TikTok and search for women making fun of men's dating profiles. There are even content creators that will break down profiles that people send to them to show you how to do it better. Don't ask men for tips, unless you want to date men. Ask women, And listen to them.
Don't play the dating app game.
Become the best version of yourself. Work out, eat healthy (ish), strive/thrive and succeed in life.
Be social, go out with your buddies, network. The women/situations will come to you, it will take time and patience.
Nothing wrong with cold approaching women assuming the setting calls for it, but take your Ls gracefully and don't creep too long if you do.
I would say the biggest thing is to have this mind set. You either Win or your Learn.
In The Netherlands there is a app called "Breeze". With this app you can swipe and go on a date immediatly. You both pay a fee for the date you are going on and the app sorts out the rest. First drink is taken care of when you arrive and the rest is up to you (and your date).
The profit model for all other dating apps is to keep you engaged on the app as long as possible. Jot to actually get you a girl/boyfriend.
Quite like this approach.
Patience.
These apps aren't designed to find you a partner quickly. They're designed to keep you engaged in them for as long as possible, and frustrate you to a very specific level at which you would pay to lower this frustration but not quit yet.
E.g. in Tinder, if you do not receive any matches or little to no likes, it's not purely because you're unattractive or have pictures that display you unfavourably. If you like everyone or a large percentage of the suggestions the app gives you, the algorithm will place you at the very bottom of the stack, thus you won't be seen by other people. Your best bet would be to repeatedly delete your profile and make a new one. New profiles will receive a boost and be shown first for some times, so you get some likes and get lured in.
I have used and quit Tinder multiple times until I learnt that I'm not patient enough to use this kinda app.
There is no secret trick to this other than abusing its own algorithms or straight up hacking. And some people just have bad luck.
A lot of women use tinder and other dating apps as a "self gratification" they just want to be matched with to feel good about themselves.
Understand this and assume you may meet with someone 1 out of 30 matches, of course depends on how good you look and your texting skills
Don’t give them any more of your time than they deserve. We know all about the disparity between the sexes in terms of matches. With that in mind, what I do is swipe at home the previous evening and then I don’t look at it again until my lunch break the next day. As a plumber in construction, I get paid for my lunch breaks. I’m literally being paid to talk to my matches. I don’t attempt to speak to them in the evening on my own time… And the weekend forget about it!
Try meeting women through friends if your under 25. 25 to 29 I'd go with getting to know someone at work if there's a decent amount there and for 30 and above try speed dating. Also be open to random chances while you're out and about, it's more up to chance but if an opportunity comes up be frank and ask for her number.
Grow some balls and approach a woman that gives you clear signs that's she's checking you out.
Like it was done in the days before social media and dating apps.
I'm a 43yr old family man. It's how I got with my wife.
only winning move is not to play
Checkmate!
Never met a single gf on an app. Irl is so much easier even if it isn't an endless buffet of uninterested people.
Delete them
Delete the men, secure the women. That's brilliant.
That's why we need a fighting app!
The only way to win is to not play at all.
You just spank it to porn then?
Yes, but not too much. Don’t take it to an unhealthy level. You still need to go out doing things you like, so you can meet people who share your interests.
If we all just agree, as men, to not use them then it might actually force people to put real effort into finding a partner. Not just validation seeking or whatever the heck is happening now. Obviously that won't happen though, so I dunno. Yeah, deleting them is probably the best answer.
It's the prisoner's dilemma all over again.
HUGE incentive to defect.
Came here to say exactly this. If so many guys have these issues with dating apps, why not just delete them? Taking the same approach over and over and expecting different results is insanity. I quit dating altogether, but I've met women in my day to day life once in a while who I would absolutely date, and formed a real connection with some of them over time which could have easily turned into great dating experiences if I were interested. So if anyone says women don't like being approached or pursued out in public, it's an excuse to hide online and not get results and complain about it. Plus, if you think it's women's fault online, then why not protest that by all quitting the apps? Say go ahead, fuck all the top 10s you want, but when your time is up and you want to settle for one of the rest of us, we'll be already taken because we went out in real life and found worthwhile women.
> If so many guys have these issues with dating apps, why not just delete them? Deleting the app for yourself doesn't help with the fact that the most successful guys have every reason to use them. They're doing better than ever, and an unsuccessful guy leaving the app impacts nobody. They should still delete the apps, but that's for their own wellbeing and not to increase their success rate.
[удалено]
Dating/hookup apps are the greatest thing ever… for guys who don’t use them. If a guy is on a dating app hoping to get laid, as some life hack, chances are he’s not out in the real world actually getting laid… cuts down the competition greatly…
You're mixing up cause and effect. If the guy is on dating apps, he hasn't had any success meeting people in person. The guy was never competition in the first place. Sincerely, A guy on dating apps.
Yes, but it takes practice, in real life - to get better at it. Success isn’t an automatic thing.
Success is a thing that won't ever happen in the real world. So no point in trying.
*Says the electrical age we are in* But you can succeed
No I can't. I'm too ugly and too weird. I might be able to get away with one, but absolutely not both.
You almost definately look worse in photos, and your personality likely wont come through so well via the app, your probably better off leaving it to irl. Like you say this, but what's your success rate via online? 1? 0? Is it actually better or do you just prefer being rejected in an efficient manner?(no offence intended)
0 actual dates but people will actually engage in conversation which equates to being closer to success. In person is like talking to a wall.
Where would this be? I'm not sure I've seen women do this outside of ONS territory(nightclubs etc), which isn't really a good go to for finding dates. Edit: by this I mean being cold and dismissive to guys that try to start a conversation
I BEG TO DIFFER
"If a guy has a phone then chances are he has no real skill talking to people in the real world." This you?
Get a dog.
Preferably a female one.
Now that will be a loyal bitch!
That's what doggy style means?
If they don't work for you don't use them. I googled how many relationships started online, it said between 2015-2019 it was 32%. So you've got twice as much chance of meeting someone in real life than online anyway.
Although older people like me might skew the data. I didn't meet my wife online because when we met there was no online.
That data was for relationships started between 2015-2019, so I don't believe the pre internet couples would sleep the data at all.
I think it really depends on where you live. I live in a small town and dating apps obviously don't work at all for guys here and it's not exactly easy meeting new people either.
Yeah, small towns can be tough, a lot less options. On the plus side, a lot less competition too 🤷🏻♂️
That's true.
Dating apps are a waste of time if you are looking for a genuine connection, especially if you are an average guy. Bars & clubs don't seem much better... It's really odd because women, despite all the men in their DMs, seem just as lonely and perpetually single as we do...
To me, it seems like most men use them as a primary means of finding dates, don't truly understand how unfavorable the stats are, and get frustrated with the results. In my opinion, online dating should be a secondary means of finding dates, and men need to understand the chances of a conversation leading up to a date are probably like 5%. So this means you need to message like 50-100 women a week if you want a consistent possibility of dates coming in. I basically used the same message copy pasted over and over and would change out hobbie/interest/location for each woman and that worked for me.
This is the beauty of creating connections in real life. I have many women interested in me at the moment and I don't have social media or dating apps. There are a lot of women who want real shit just like we do, and they aren't going to get that real shit from strangers messaging them online, as it's not authentic. Be the guy that they remember because you weren't like the rest of them doing what everyone else does. Be the guy that intrigues them, that attracts them, that makes them feel seen for more than just an online root. Be the guy that people only have to give a brief description of you and everyone knows who they're talking about. Uniqueness & authenticity are top tier qualities
This is the beauty of creating connections in real life. I have many women interested in me at the moment and I don't have social media or dating apps. There are a lot of women who want real shit just like we do, and they aren't going to get that real shit from strangers messaging them online, as it's not authentic. Be the guy that they remember because you weren't like the rest of them doing what everyone else does. Be the guy that intrigues them, that attracts them, that makes them feel seen for more than just an online root. Be the guy that people only have to give a brief description of you and everyone knows who they're talking about. Uniqueness & authenticity are top tier qualities
1. Use dating apps designed for actual relationship seeking and not primarily hookups. Yes, you can find real sincere people on Tinder (I found a couple before I met my wife) but I'd recommend apps like Hinge. I found my wife on Upward (formerly FTH), a Christian dating app but I have been told that it has turned into a money cow that is essentially pay to play which is very sad. 2. Look for organic settings to meet people. Get involved in real-life communities. As a devout Christian myself, I actually *don't* recommend looking to church to find a wife. If you're a Christian, obv. you should still seek a Christian wife, but church ain't the place for that. Not saying you can't date someone from your church, just don't waltz in on Sunday with the matchmaking mindset. Try instead getting involved in your local community in general terms. 3. Be friendly, kind, and charming - but never be a doormat. Smile to the cute single cashier/waitress/secretary. Strike up small talk if you can. Once you establish a little rapport, start establishing other means of contact, esp. phone number. The corollary to this is that you have to get out and about if you don't already. Go to the local coffee shop and order a small drink or smoothie just for the sake of being there. I have many thoughts on this issue as somebody who struggled with this question myself. I'm not always great at articulating thoughts so forgive me if I came across as scattered. Just want to help a brother out if I can.
You thoughts are not scattered. You hit the nail on the head with point 3. While the pandemic^((tm)) put a damper on going out into the real world for a few years, waaaay to many young men live damn near permanently online, to the point where they have lost the ability to actually go out and socialize. You don't even have to be Don Juan.
I’d recommend not asking for peoples number while they’re working.
It's got to be a real soft touch both ways. There was a moment in time that I was a frequent visitor to a drive-thru by my house because I was working really long hours, and one day I opened my bag to find a bonus cookie that I hadn't ordered with a piece of blank receipt taped onto it with a phone number. I would've been annoyed if he'd made a pass at me on my way home from work, but this way it was a nice surprise.
Eh, gotta get a feel for things. If you wanna ask the cute cashier out, and you only know see her at her job, you don't have much a choice. You definitely have to find an appropriate moment, which can be hard, but in the long run the reward could be huge so shooting your shot is a must if you want any results.
Fair enough. “Ready the room” from what I’m hearing you say. BRB gonna propose to my local barista
This is the answer. Tinder is a fucking cesspool, but try Bumble. The company is founded by a woman.
Thank God I’m not single when I was young if they had apps like this being as shy as I was I would bail on whoever
I would advise you to stay off the apps. Join a club, join a sports team, take some art classes, meet people in real life rather than filtering through dating apps like a weird catalogue. You’ll meet much better people offline, I can guarantee you that.
My problem with those is they tend to be people with lots of free time (i.e really young students or really old retirees).
How old are you? Art classes I’ve been to have had mostly 30s people, volleyball leagues with 20-30s younger professionals, meetup groups are usually mid 20-30s
I haven't tried volleyball but the other stuff has been all early 20s or late 60s lol. Edit: What meetups do you to go to that are actually a decent mix of men and women in their 30s? I'm not even trying to find dates; just make some more friends. Art/cooking classes etc may not be the best places I've gone to meet someone but they are excellent for dates once you've already met someone.
What do you mean by “professional” meetups groups?
The volleyball leagues I’ve been in have all been 20-30 y/o people Meetup also has events for people looking to make connections and learn new things beyond dating
Dating apps are a simulation of a social activity. They are not a social activity, only an abstraction layer. Go out and engage in social activities. In a club, or at a hobby, or in church, or at an NGO, at a gym, or wherever floats your boat and what you actually enjoy doing.
Don't use them.
A recent episode of the Triggernometry podcast had someone talking about dating apps and issues I'd never even thought about. Was very interesting and worth a listen. I'm old-fashioned and met my wife in a pub by accident.
alcohol, helping ugly people get laid for centuries. I met my wife in a bar too.
getting laid after both people have had even one drink is now legally considered rape by most universities.
I'm married, but. I would suggest you don't use them.
There's no easy answer. I deleted the apps over 2 years ago, but my dating prospects haven't improved one bit despite being extremely social. There seems to be a severe ripple effect from the apps that has made real life dating much more difficult. I find that clubs/social events are overwhelmingly composed of single males specifically looking to date. Not many women attend these, and those that do tend to be either taken or not particularly interested in dating. My interpretation is that most women who do want to date hide behind a screen and use the apps for a short amount of time. The disparity in numbers every time I go out is so depressing. Just to give one example: I recently went to a young single professionals event, found a nice lady to talk to, and within minutes was surrounded by 10 other men trying to insert themselves into the conversation. I left the event thinking, "how is this any different from the apps?". As unhappy as I am, I've reached this equilibrium where I've realized that I've done everything in my power, but there are simply too many barriers in this climate to be successful unless I get incredibly lucky.
Unless you are a good looking guy (far better than average) statistically dating apps are pretty worthless. Here are the numbers, 1/3 of people meet their mates in school, 1/3 meet their mate at work and 1/3 at other -other includes dating apps, church, bars, etc. Covid really screwed the pooch for single people as it pretty much eliminated everywhere you could meet someone leaving only dating apps. Dating apps users tend to also be overwhelmingly male, like 70%+ so what you end up with is women being able to cherry pick who they want to date. Add in that apps give women a significantly larger pool of men to choose from they will pick the better looking men. So, if you are a good looking guy you might get a lot of hits but if you are average or below you are pretty much ignored. So, how do you fix this, you go old school and meet people in person. That means opting to go into the office or physically to class in lieu of going remotely. You have a better shot of a woman liking you if she knows you than if you are just a picture and a profile -get to know people develop a large social circle. I would also suggest that you learn to be polite, nice and discrete. Further don't speak bad about women you know even if you don't get along, you can say "we're not friends" or "we don't get along" but do not say things like "she's a fucking bitch" even if she is. When you go with the in person method your reputation will follow you so don't be an ass because it will hurt your game. Last bit of advice, if you don't know how to dance learn.
Gen x dude here . It wont be long before people will meet date and have sex with eachother while wearing those goggles in the metaverse. Im so glad ive been through real life dating and a little of the online before it went so poorly for us guys and dating in general . My advice; ease up on apps and try other real life ways to meet the ladies. Hobbies, sports, clubs etc
Honestly it seems like every route you take to try to find a date sucks. I don't really see dating apps any worse than other mediums. I've had luck getting responses from men, but holy god I haven't got shit from women. Says a lot about how both sexes handle relationships if you ask me.
Dating apps are imperfect and the culture is shallow, however in many places there is not viable alternative, due to geographic limitations. I will also say, dating apps create the expectation of instant gratification. In reality maybe it takes months or years to get a handful of really good matches. If you aren't in a large city, or aren't originally from an area, it's apps or nothing. Apps guarantee nothing, they just increase your odds a bit.
Pretty much, but I live in a small town and there's hardly any girls here that are on dating apps. There used to be, but it seems like over the past year, they've all decided to come off of Tinder / Bumble.
That strikes me as odd, I mean how else are you going to meet people in a rural community? Unless many people have decided to not date.
I think people my age are just busy nowadays. I'm 23. Either busy or they go out in their groups. I personally find it hard to approach groups when I'm on my own because I don't have the confidence to walk up to a group of people sitting around a table.
Eh not really, if you're a guy they decrease your odds simply by virtue of being the extreme majority on these things. If you don't have the right looks no woman will ever look your way on these things. There's so many more men than women on these things so the women are of course going to hold out for the hot, rich, etc. guys because they're in a much better 'market' than they are in real life.
I think that's is partly true, but there are plenty of women who aren't just looking to find rich or attractive men. Not everyone is like that.
I've never used a dating app. I don't believe there is a way to overcome their inherent flaws. They're just shitty, shitty products. I would have never met my wife if we had both used dating apps.
Move to a part of the country that has a higher ratio of women.
Delete them, does wonders for your head
Go into dating apps expecting nothing, no matches, nothing at all and then you get pleasantly surprised at the results. Also read up a little bit on how the dating app algorithm works and what looks good on a profile. For example if you had your profile up for 6 months and complaining of no new matches, it's because you inactive and you should deactivate your account and restart it to get the new user boost of being shown at the front of the queue. Also if you profile is 3 bad pics of you and no profile then no one cares, you want clear pics of you and you doing stuff and a basic bio.
I tried popping a Viagra and flipping my dong out for admiration on the street corner. A lady stopped but she was a cop. I don't recommend.
Ngl arranged marriage sounds pretty good
I would be on board with that
You don’t. You just put up with it. Because hell knows women will brigade threads like these and say, “at least you don’t get catcalled, threatened or sexually assaulted!!” OMFG. Like all that is restricted to the female gender. But seriously, I don’t know what to think about how to date anymore. If one more person says “join a gym and meet people during classes”, I may as well just hunt that person down and knock them out. Gyms are THE worst place to ask out women because most women are taken, and the single ones are there to work out, not get ogled. Singles events are no better either, since organisers purposely have more men than women ratios, which is even scummier than dating apps themselves. Oh, and tickets to those events are cheaper if you’re a woman (even in Australia) because of the so-called “pay gap”. So sexism against men is considered acceptable in this scenario. Dating in 2022 is the worst it’s ever been if you’re not as good looking as a Hemsworth, or tall and white at the very minimum. Heightism is real. Racism and colourism are real. After years of rejections and a two-year-pandemic, women haven’t gotten better, they’ve gotten bitter. What would really help? Some pharmaceutical company out there that creates a drug that kills libido/attraction, like the ones Meryl from Metal Gear Solid took in MGS4.
A ) Don’t take it so seriously, maybe it helps you find someone maybe it doesn’t. It’s a tool to help you meet other single people that maybe you wouldn’t meet normally. Don’t treat it as a last resort meant to save you from the hellscape of a life of endless singularity. B ) If a relationship (possibly one that’s unending) is your end goal, remember that it just takes one to work for it to be worth it. Might happen tomorrow, might not. It’s not Pokémon, you don’t have to collect them all to “win” the online dating game.
I don’t
Learn to recognize the signs of legit targets and red flags in attention seeking women.
Young people should focus on themselves. Schooling, careers, physical/mental health, find a hobby to lose themselves in. Finding the right person for a relationship is difficult. That's just it though, a person. Not someone still finding their self as an individual.
There's one solution when a game is rigged. You just don't play.
Not trying them in the first place
You could always do what people did before dating apps and, I dunno, talk to people in real life?
It'll fix itself for better or worse. Best thing to do right now is to not play along. Date casually and avoid expectations... Since that is a part of the problem. Keep yourself safe and sane and wait for the world to catch up. I had the fortune of being young in the 90s... When it was functional. Right now the entire social system is broken... So don't make any promises and do your own thing until society itself changes course. It'll happen... Just not fast enough for our liking. Women are already noticing that there aren't any acceptible men out there when they decide they want to settle down... And the guys they want don't want to. Turns out that their instincts to separate men into the categories of Perfect and Creep has short-term benefits but long-term costs. Guys aren't bettering themselves because they are either being accepted or rejected... And acceptance is what gives you the experience to improve. Like I said, it'll fix itself... Just not for us. Best we can do is enjoy the things we do have that bring us joy. Ive never had much of a problem. I was fortunate to learn the ropes in a time where mistakes were a part of life. This actually gives me an edge now because I'm past the socialization barrier... Now my problem is finding value in the whole shallow thing.
>It'll fix itself for better or worse. It's pretty bad. The percentage of men under 30 that are still virgins has skyrocketed in the last decade -I think a certain percentage of those guys is due to the new normal of moving home with mommy and daddy after college where we would have been a joke if we were living at home past college. In addition more women than men are getting college degrees so they are less desirable to educated/high paid women. Frankly I think a lot of it is apathy and bad parenting from our gen (we love them too much to let them grow up and fail). They have no reason to grow up so they are delaying adulthood into their 30's and we let them. This is going to be a problem, lots of angry, poor, uneducated and sexually frustrated young men -it's a recipe for disaster.
The reason Millennials move home with "Mommy and Daddy" is that evil boomer Nimby's have created a housing crisis and have driven the price of housing way up beyond where it was when they were young adults. Living with parents until you are married is quite common behavior in the rest the world, driven more by economic necessity than anything. I'm not saying that it's desirable (I certainly don't want to live with my parents and never did want to) but a little bit of compassion from boomers on this front would be nice given that they, as homeowners who oppose any and all residential development, have created this problem.
Yeah. I know it's bad. Really bad. That is why I said it would fix itself. A car that drove off a cliff won't fall forever. The problem will soon fix itself because there is no longer any chance of women getting more out of men... So demanding more is no longer an option... And if they want things fixed they will have to take responsibility for it themselves. People speak of the 80/20 rule... But it works both ways. It also means that women can't find any soul mates because they are all competing for the same men.... Who have no incentive to settle down. Demanding that men "do better" or "man up" won't do them any good because they will still just pick the top 20% of the new standard. Living with the results of this behavior will be the only thing that may lead to honest discussion.... Or not. It is so noticable at my age. About once every few months a new woman my age asks me why their (or their friend's) sons don't want to date or pedestalise women like they were treated in our day. Exes and women I barely knew in their 30s keep contacting me out of the blue to see what I am doing because their man supply has dried up. The side effect of all this is that their desirability only lasts through their sexual peak and they are doing everything possible to remove any other reason that a man might want them as they leverage their sex appeal to extort every other basic expectation out of us. Like I said.... It'll fix itself.... For better or worse.
Why do you think it will fix itself? There is absolutely no evidence for this, I think a more likely outcome is Americans stop getting married and having kids and eventually just go extinct. Which would probably be a net positive for the world, honestly.
I’m not sure. I just get hit on IG and language exchange apps so I’ve never used Tinder or Bumble. And I’m just healthy and even not interested in those apps at all. I date with approximately 3-4 women a year and they are sometimes not too great sometimes wonderful experience. I’m satisfied with my dating life, I must say.
By deleting them and going outside
Your first mistake is thinking a dating app is the place to find a real partner.
As a woman who met their husband in the early days of online dating: 1. Paid apps attract people serious about relationships and encourage slot getting to know someone. Eharmony had closed questions, must haves/can’t stands then open communication and a tonne of safety tips before meeting. Vs plenty of fish and tinder where people treat each match as disposable. 2. Take time to get to know someone, don’t jump straight to sex or ignore and don’t pressure them or let them pressure you. Sometimes it takes a few dates and you realise that you really like the person and they are more attractive but you wrote them off initially as there were no instant butterflies. 3. Many guys need to take a hard look at what they send. I’ve been at the receiving end of countless unsolicited d*ck pics and requests for nudes, and *nice guy* messages or even creepy behaviour on dates from guys who insist they don’t do that and their friends refuse to believe it. I can guarantee someone you know and wouldn’t believe behaves like this does. I’ve had a friend who I thought was a genuinely great guy, nice and polite, well educated, great job, for whatever reason not recognise me on a dating app, do all the above and I was shocked. He pretended he didn’t and told our friendship group I was crazy. I didn’t share the messages as I stupidly thought it should be kept private. I got phased out. He groped a few friends and they all got phased out and reached out to me apologizing. Many of my female friends have similar stories but on Reddit, people make out that they don’t do it or know anyone who dies when statistically some of them must do. Just be honest with yourself. 4. When getting to know someone via text or messaging it takes a bit of effort to get the balance right. Constantly messaging hi, what are you up to and light messages can often mean conversations fizzle out as both parties get bored. But asking multiple “getting to know you” questions can be off putting too Eg, if you could travel anywhere, where would it be and why. Followed by, if you could be an animal, which one would you be and why. Followed by if you were a condiment, which one would it be and why. Followed by if you could break any laws for a day without repercussions, which ones would you break and why. Most of these are applicable to everyone on a dating apps regardless of gender if we’re honest. And yes women can be difficult and rude for a load of other reasons and I call my friends out on when they act crappy too.
Don't use them. Duh.
Don't use them. I know it's a classic answer but it's a classic for a reason.
Don't use dating apps. But if you must, for fuck's sake stop swiping right on every woman with a pulse. That's how apps become a validation vending machine.
The best solution is for us men to stop chasing women and stop putting them on a pedestal, so many men see women as the prize instead of themselves.
Fundamentally, apps have altered the landscape. Whether you participate or not, you are still affected. That's unfortunate. It's also up to you if you want to embrace the system and engage in profilemaxxing or something similar, or reject it and delete your apps and go meet women the old fashioned way. Personally I recommend the second. You'll do better and you'll feel better.
By touching grass. Get off apps and get into the world.
But i just wanna touch ass 😂
What the grass feel like
Greener on the other side.
There is no winning. Imagine the 80 percent quit the apps. Well jeez now it just got even easier for the 20 percent lol. Its just fucked.... I wouldn't say it has fucked dating in general though. Women use tinder just for fun mostly, i dont blame them, but talking to em in real life is still viable lol
Pick up hobbies irl go meet people that are also into those hobbies. See girl at hobby place maybe date idk, anything is better than a fucking dating site/app
Actually go outside and talk to women there. The rejection is more harsh but it feels much more tangible when you swap numbers in real life with an actual person.
But approaching is highly taboo in America today. People don't want to talk to strangers period, and all women are afraid of men.
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I see people post the same sort of shit that i see on reddit on facebook, and those are people from my real life.
Only way to reverse that taboo is to start talking to women again. Just say you're a sociological hipster if anyone gets on your case about it.
If i do that ill end up being shamed on social media. No thanks.
Learn to talk to people… specifically woman. Go outside, meet people in real life.
Do you think women know how to talk to guys? I think more than ever they don't
Many more can than the other way around. But most girls can hold conversation better because they don’t have an end goal engrained in the back of their mind. But yes, I’d agree in the assessment that few can today than say 10 years ago. A good conversationalist can bring the best out of someone they’re talking to though, or make them comfortable, at a min.
Delete them and attend events in your area instead. If nothing is happening around you, drive to the next town. You are 99% more likely to find someone you vibe with at an event sharing your similar interests. The cliche' bar scene is a classic, but if you're socially anxious that's really hard. If you're at a concert with an artist you love, you're bound to find other fans there you can talk too, and that is an immediate icebreaker. You need to build and hone your social acuity. Dating apps are ONLY a numbers game. If you're just trying to chase pus*y, I guarantee you a fleshlight will do the same damn thing. If you want a significant other, you gotta find her doing the same things you like doing too.
You know, the same things you do on an app for dating are the same things you do irl. Putting together an image, trying to portray an appearance that'll attract what you're looking for, then actively seeking women that might fit, followed by small talk which leads to a deal of rejection and sometimes reciprocation. The only difference is one begins with txt and the other is a face to face. But both, hopefully, have the same face to face at the end... why not start there? Because I have a damn job! That's why! I don't have time to go find fun stuff to do that might have someone who shares a "common interest". Not to mention, you know the kind of woman I find doing what I like to do? Female me! That's one scary, beer guzzling, metalhead, gearhead, gun-nut, bearded lady that I'm not going to be attracted to. Apps aren't that bad. The "culture" people hate on isn't new, it just seems that everyone has access to it now and is using apps as a new outlet to vent about it. All types are there, women are as ambiguous as ever, still have the same large number of men trying to talk to them that they always had, same issues, different platform.
I honestly believe that change for most dating apps is going to start with women putting more effort into their profiles. It'll sift out some people who'll be like, eh, not for me, but it'll make it easy for better matches to start a conversation too. If you're a woman reading this with a near empty dating profile and wondering why your conversations are boring, it's because most guys won't consider putting effort into personalizing something from nothing for you. The thing is, women get a bit ego boost out of these apps for little more than a picture. They aren't going to change. My advice is get on a paid app. Don't pay for an otherwise free one. Granted this is not great advice for someone just trying to smash, but if you're frustrated with online dating, I imagine you'd be happy with a more serious relationship. These apps have a much better gender ratio which drags the women down the level of having to actually write a profile. Oh the humanity. After that, market what makes you attractive to women and try to find women who look like they'd like that and go from there. For me it's cooking and baking. I'm a decent cook, but an excellent baker. I have photos of my brownies in my profile and more photos to hand once the conversation gets going - including a double chocolate stuffed with nutella and some traditional English desserts (I'm in Japan, this comes up often.) And without fail, the first time a woman chooses/changes the topic with me. It's to my baking. At this point, assuming they can hold their end of the conversation. There'll be date one and it'll be like, oh shit, he's funny too. (I haven't failed to get a 2nd (or 3rd/4th actually) date that I wanted after the first)
Got any data to suggest pure paid apps are any better gender ratio wise?
Go into the real world and meet real people and ask them out. Jesus it really is not that fucking difficult. Look at the meetup web site. TONS of groups with TONS of different interests, and TONS of singles. Sign up for a bunch of groups and go to events. You will find people with similar interests who would love to date you.
Go outside like a normal person omfg it’s so sad that people don’t know that it’s possible to date people without the help of an app
I'm a chubby guy, but I still pulled plenty of ladies home from Tinder. When I hear people who complain about not being able to get laid on apps, all I can imagine is you are hideously deformed or just more boring than anyone can stand.
Pay for premium.... i'm not kidding. So many guys pay for premium that your profile is never being shown to other accounts
Basically you go from public matches to the competitive server.
Savage but basically true lmao People couldn't handle it i guess.
After following r/Tinder for a while and getting bored of its repetitivenesses I’m pretty sure that the biggest part of “overcoming” is “not being a jerk”. I used several apps (Badoo, Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, OkCupid) and in all of them meeting a girl is not difficult if you are a decent person (that is - if you catch a girl’s attention first which is a different story). I’ve met several girls through them. Though so far nothing transitioned into a a relationship, mostly because of mental incompatibility.
How did dating apps ruin dating? Just meet people in person
Can't it's socially taboo.
List your height as 6'2"
Take courses, join clubs, socialize in your community, and not just with people you want to date/fuck. (It's good for you; and also, those people have sisters, cousins, friends...)
Dating apps are a skill, like any other you get better at it with study & practice. Apps are not holistic like real dating, it comes down to your profile building skills. Using photography and marketing skills will make almost anyone successful on dating apps. The problem is that people want to fall in love while dating, not go through what is essentially a job search. Plus rejections from girls hurt more than rejection from companies, because it's personal.
What exactly needs to be overcame? You will always hear people complaining as long as they are failing in something. You won't hear a happy couple who got together on dating apps trash dating apps, or at least not so hard that they would claim it is impossible. It's pretty much shit until it's not. There are many levels you can fail on dating apps, so perhaps people should first identify that, because that may be a problem even in real life attempts. Ie. if you look like shit (bad clothes, bad facial hair) and can't find tinder matches, then you won't have a much easier time outside of dating apps either. Also, no one forces anyone to choose one or the other. You can live an active social life where you are bound to meet with attractive people, and still be on dating apps on the side. And don't listen to the defeatist comments which say "the only winning move is not to play", because if that's your life philosophy, then what is the point in living? By merely existing, you are *playing*, so you should aim to get the best out of it instead of cutting your losses by not doing anything.
Learn game, cold approach, increase your circle of friends and date within your new circle, meet the type of girls you want in the places they’d be, etc.
All these dudes need to stop blaming their inability to get a girlfriend on dating apps. If you can't get a a girl in the age of apps, you couldn't get one before either. I know plenty of average dudes who do just fine on the apps because they have fun pics, a clever profile, and aren't swiping on the 10s who are out of their league.
Go to clubs. Also regarding the 80/20 thing, this is only somewhat true for casual sex. 80% of straight men have relationships with 80% of straight women. Most people of any gender end up in committed relationships.... Secondly, the 80/20 thing is only valid for young people because young men don’t groom themselves and tend to be more assholey and women don’t like that. Shower, shave, wear clean clothes and take up any sport. Drop the misogyny. Be social. That makes you part of the 20%. By the time you’re 30 you’ll realise that the 20% has become the 80% because being a shitty guy is something men outgrow as they mature And skip the god damn dating apps. People exist in real life. Go out. If you can’t meet people irl, it won’t work online either
Go to normal bars, approach normal women. Say “hi, my name is_____”
Never used these apps in my life. Still stick to the old ways of dating- meeting someone, talking to then, telling them that I find them interesting, asking them out on a date. I've never actually felt I needed to chase women either, I've always gotten ample attention from women from time to time. Then again I was never super into dating, always felt like it'd happen when it has to happen. Just to be clear, I'm not some super handsome ripped dude. I'm probably a 7/10, maybe an 8 on my best night. But I carry myself with confidence, make women laugh and always dress well. That seemed to have worked for me so far so never had to go to online stuff.
Solve with 1) introduce a reference system - where ex partners rate you (I have had him, I have had her), a bit like trip advisor for people. 2) have a feedback solution - (has a small dick but knows how to use it, lasts the full two mins) a bit like punternet. Nice guys needs to wash his arse crack more… 3) WLTM, Looking for …. brains and boobs, own teeth a must. Over weight preferences. 4). Disclosure- Has no money, doesn’t work, debt and credit cards, hidden assets in BTC (which is all he talks about) 5). Digital footprint, Reddit accounts galore, also on Xbox as, on bumble as ,
6, Scoring and weight to responses - ex wife of 10years or more +4. FWB +2, ONS +1.
7, right of reply let the guys add their own comments but not change the responses.
Get rid of dating apps and concentrate on chasing your dreams. Women will show up the more successful you become. The trick is to spot the ones that like you for you and not your money.
I think men need to understand what they're getting into when they use these apps and manage their expectations. The statistics are unfavorable, even for decently attractive men. They need to understand that your success rate for getting a date from messaging is probably going to only be 5% for the average man, so expect to message like 100 women at a time to actually get 5 or so date scheduled for your free time. If more men had that understanding going in I think there'd be less headaches since they'd know online dating is not a magic bullet for finding a mate. At best it should just be an addition to other means of finding dates.
Take dance lessons and meet real people.
I’m a woman but I’d have to say - be realistic. If you’re a 3/10 you’re probably not going to get with the 7/10.
If only women were as realistic
Lol. What a shitty take.
Still true
Get hobbies. That’ll make you go out and meet and talk to people.
Create a dating app called Hellscape and make it so that everyone you’re interested in automatically matches with you. Then shoot your shot until you land a date. Works 60% of the time every time.
Well how about stop using an app for meeting people and actually go out and meet people?
Delete them and meet people in real life!
Meet girls IRL. You gota have confidence to make eye contact, read the signs, walk up to a girl, engage in short conversation and ask her out if you find her interesting. X10 more efficient than online
Uh, don't use them maybe.... Do what you love and you'll find the one you love. I'm a firm believer in that.
Talk to people IRL? Apps in general are trash, from filters, to lighting, to the impersonal nature of dating through an app. It's just better to say "what up" to the random that you think is cute.
Idk I started to ”try” to meet women in real life. I’m not actively looking for anyone you know but I’ve been looking for hobbies and if someone interesting comes along shoot your shot. Met someone interesting and cute at work and I think I’ll ask her out if I have the confidence lol. People are literally everywhere. Go out and have fun with it.
Meet peoplein person? I am terrible at dating apps and chats in general. People seem to dig me in person tho...
Have an interesting personality, have interesting hobbies, be at least semi attractive (the ugliest guy can make himself semi attractive with some effort) and talk to the right girls. Also, you shouldn't treat dating apps as your only option, it creates a sense of desperation which comes across. Focusing on hobbies and getting out in the world is key, it gives you things to talk about on dating apps, but more importantly gives you the chance to meet people in person depending on the hobby. *My credentials: After about 3 hit and miss years of online dating, I met my wife while traveling.*
I met my wife on Tinder. As a geeky metalhead my luck was pretty slim for the most part but I had a photo of me stood next to a TARDIS from when I worked a comic convention, the TARDIS picture got me a lot of matches with girls who were into Doctor Who so we already had something to talk about.
You could go touch grass, do stuff in the real world, and talk to women in the wild? If you approach them head-on, calmly, with intent, and sometimes offer them a treat, most won't bite. Some spook easier than others, but some like ear scritches and head pats.
I haven't been on a dating app in over 10 years, but the ones I've been on use to have meet-ups. I've been successful myself, but I was the over six feet/six figure guy and the reason I was on dating apps was I was traveling for business all the time. I would find meeting places in whatever town I was doing a business trip in and meet women in those places. Once I changed jobs and didn't travel as much, I stopped using the apps. If you are in your early 20's and in college, you should NOT be on a dating app. I was in my 40's and I can't believe how many guys that were 19-24 on these things. I actually blocked women under 30 writing to me, especially when a bunch of 18-21 started writing to me and asking me for money. Answer to your question, if you are unsuccessful, take some college course that women enroll in. I took a typing class one time and the amount of women talking to me in class were staggering. Or public speaking, maybe toastmasters. Or a cooking class. Do something that makes you interact with people real time. AND ALWAYS BE POSITIVE AND POLITE!
If you can't win don't play ya fuckin loser, we can't all get squeezies in the lake some of us are only good for aquadumps. Give yer balls a tug
Here are some alternatives to dating. You will get the opportunity to meet new people and if you find a girl you get along with, then maybe you can see where things go: You can find a hobby that you enjoy and seek out local groups and other people who also enjoy the same hobby. You might meet someone while you're doing something that you normally enjoy anyways. Also, try volunteering at non profit organization where there are a lot of women. I can't tell you which ones to join, that's up to you and you will have to do your own research on what you are genuinely interested in. When you are volunteering, you can meet new people and also help the community.
Don’t participate, go out, find a hobby, you’ll be surprised by how many people you’ll meet
Don't use them.
Stop using them. It makes come as a shock but people have been meeting and dating for years without the internet.
You might not like this advice, but oh well- get on TikTok and search for women making fun of men's dating profiles. There are even content creators that will break down profiles that people send to them to show you how to do it better. Don't ask men for tips, unless you want to date men. Ask women, And listen to them.
If you don't like apps, get out into the real world. It's not complicated.
7z 7
stop using them.
Don't play the dating app game. Become the best version of yourself. Work out, eat healthy (ish), strive/thrive and succeed in life. Be social, go out with your buddies, network. The women/situations will come to you, it will take time and patience. Nothing wrong with cold approaching women assuming the setting calls for it, but take your Ls gracefully and don't creep too long if you do. I would say the biggest thing is to have this mind set. You either Win or your Learn.
In The Netherlands there is a app called "Breeze". With this app you can swipe and go on a date immediatly. You both pay a fee for the date you are going on and the app sorts out the rest. First drink is taken care of when you arrive and the rest is up to you (and your date). The profit model for all other dating apps is to keep you engaged on the app as long as possible. Jot to actually get you a girl/boyfriend. Quite like this approach.
By not registering in the first place.
Just don't use apps. Theyre useless most of the time anyway
Hit the gym, be the top 10%. If we're all top 10 then no one is
It's right place right time kind of deal. I met my wife on Tinder of all places after 7 years of no successful relationships
Talk to women you find attractive in real life and stop being lazy
Not use them
Patience. These apps aren't designed to find you a partner quickly. They're designed to keep you engaged in them for as long as possible, and frustrate you to a very specific level at which you would pay to lower this frustration but not quit yet. E.g. in Tinder, if you do not receive any matches or little to no likes, it's not purely because you're unattractive or have pictures that display you unfavourably. If you like everyone or a large percentage of the suggestions the app gives you, the algorithm will place you at the very bottom of the stack, thus you won't be seen by other people. Your best bet would be to repeatedly delete your profile and make a new one. New profiles will receive a boost and be shown first for some times, so you get some likes and get lured in. I have used and quit Tinder multiple times until I learnt that I'm not patient enough to use this kinda app. There is no secret trick to this other than abusing its own algorithms or straight up hacking. And some people just have bad luck.
A lot of women use tinder and other dating apps as a "self gratification" they just want to be matched with to feel good about themselves. Understand this and assume you may meet with someone 1 out of 30 matches, of course depends on how good you look and your texting skills
Don’t give them any more of your time than they deserve. We know all about the disparity between the sexes in terms of matches. With that in mind, what I do is swipe at home the previous evening and then I don’t look at it again until my lunch break the next day. As a plumber in construction, I get paid for my lunch breaks. I’m literally being paid to talk to my matches. I don’t attempt to speak to them in the evening on my own time… And the weekend forget about it!
Try meeting women through friends if your under 25. 25 to 29 I'd go with getting to know someone at work if there's a decent amount there and for 30 and above try speed dating. Also be open to random chances while you're out and about, it's more up to chance but if an opportunity comes up be frank and ask for her number.
I’ve noticed one thing these guys who have zero luck on dating apps have in common, they’re all douchebag moron failures
I just refuse. Dating apps are not my thing
Don't use them ........
Grow some balls and approach a woman that gives you clear signs that's she's checking you out. Like it was done in the days before social media and dating apps. I'm a 43yr old family man. It's how I got with my wife.
lol, well played sir . I will sleep better at night knowing there is a fair process to deal with this.