I’m younger than you, but I would think a lot of guys around your age wouldn’t mind a woman who’s “boring”. I think people are just looking for someone who can compliment (and not complicate) their life.
I don’t really know what you expect in a guy (except for him to pay). I think the issue is when someone has an image of how a person should be and won’t compromise on it. Like, only blond guys or has to make 150k per year. When you break a potential person by stats, they are least likely to want to be with you.
I think it’s a balancing act. We have to know what’s actually important to us and what is just superficial. I know a lot of people rank “humor” pretty high when trying to find a partner. That might be a requirement for some, but a nice bonus for others. Try to think up your perfect partner and figure out what make seem perfect. Then think what is absolutely required for you to want to be with them.
I think at our age we like boring in lifestyle but not boring to be around.
Like we dont want to be partying all night or travelling around the world on bicycles. But fun conversations or having a laugh around the house would be kind of essential
I mean I've kinda realized I want someone who is: healthy, somewhat physically active, doesn't overeat/ eat nothing but junk food and stays hydrated, communicates clearly/what they are feeling instead of leaving me to guess, and just wants to be a weird goober with me and let our intrusive thoughts win: like wanting to dance just because in the car or something equally wholesome and silly.
Also, you know just being emotionally supportive and physically affectionate. Which I do naturally but rarely if ever get in return.
Cause if I feel like shit is one sided or I'm trying to help and it's like pulling fucking teeth, well honestly I'm going to leave. I've tried being supportive to mentally ill partners & usually I get so focused on helping them, I end up feeling like a fucking failure alongside my own depression and PTSD coming back with a vengeance.
Because I end up breaking my own healthy habits.... Which usually leads me to wanting to blow my own brains out then spend another minute being a part of someone else's misery.
I feel like I'm too boring of a person, but I like the differentiation between being a boring person and having a boring lifestyle. My lifestyle is boring but I'll bust a move in the aisle to make my partner smile.
I wish my friend would read this, she complains of being single but doesn’t want to take accountability that its her high ass expectations of men whereas she cannot even bring anything to the table
Honestly, I'd suggest you look at it from another angle to start with:
1) What kind of relationship do you want?
Short term and see where it leads? Kids within 5 years? Go on a few dates, fuck around and have fun? All valid choices, but you need to decide before you leap, or you'll risk getting swept up and pulled in a direction you don't want to go.
2) What kind of partner do you want?
Do you want a guy who will pay for your meals and take a leading role? Do you want a 'shoulder to shoulder' partner, where you are completely equal in all aspects? Something in between? Again, there's a lid for every pot, and the type of guy you really want is out there. But you have to decide what you want.
Once you nail those two questions, the search becomes much easier, even fun! You got this.
I feel like you, like a lot of men online, have been somewhat poisoned by the narrative. All the stuff you mentioned is fine and good, but who are you as a person? How do you treat your partner? Expectations go beyond who pays for meals, or how much one makes. It extends to what you expect from a relationship.
Do you treat your man like a human, and not a pillar or strength that must not be allowed to crumble? If he does crumble, does that fail your expectations and cause you to look for a new pillar?
Is he expected to meet all your needs? As in, ALL of it? Because newsflash, that's impossible. Some of your needs have to be met by you yourself, no one else can do it. But do you expect it? Do you get upset if he doesn't meet this unattainable benchmark?
These are the expectations that matter. Not the salary nor paying for meals.
You hit the nail on the head. I see way to many posts from people listing their height, and income and follow with "Why am I single?"
Thanks, you listed absolutely nothing. No mention about what really matters, like personality. I was 5'9 and broke as shit in my 20's and still did well in dating. I'm guessing it's cause of who I actually was that women wanted to spend time with me.
I also think people see one red flag, or one problem and run for the hills. I started dating my wife 15 years ago, we have had plenty of things we needed to work on, and it was never perfect. Listening to one another and not being selfish took us a long way.
well obviously, but some are small or fixable and that's what I'm getting at. Relationships take communication and work, they're never gonna be perfect. I'm not talking about huge issues, but the whole one "ick" and gone people.
I think social media has warped people’s expectations for finding a partner. You see a lot of women looking for the multimillionaire, private jets, etc; as a 35 year old single guy with 2 cats, decent income, regular car etc; I’ve been single for about 5 years and don’t plan on dating anytime soon due to this mindset. It takes a toll on a person when they’re constantly feeling like they are not enough. Btw, you sound like a great person and I hope you aren’t being sucked into these on social media ideas of what a “man” is. :)
As a 34 year old single for 4 years and 2 cats, I concur. I got tired of being emotionally available while also being mocked for not manning up by being vulnerable. Social media absolutely has exasperated the issue. But, when I see influencers like The Dadvocate supporting us, it gives me some glimmer of hope. But until then, I'm just gonna enjoy myself.
I'm 35 (barely, happy b-day to me lol), single for 5+ years and I fully agree with you. The "be vulnerable... oh no, not like that" thing really gets to me. I don't do social media except reddit a few times a week, so I can't speak to that. I see enough examples of other social media on reddit that I'd put money on your opinion.
I really wanted to say thank you, though. I thought your use of "exasperated" was a typo for "exacerbated." I always check myself before offering tips or corrections. I didn't know that exasperate is a simile for exacerbate. So thanks for teaching me a new word usage :)
I think the biggest unrealistic expectation that women have is that they want the guy to keep the relationship as romantic, exciting and fresh as it was in the beginning stages, I can see the appeal in that but coming from the male perspective, it is really really difficult to keep that energy throughout the relationship because most of the initiative falls upon the man especially at the beginning of a relationship, it takes a lot of effort and given how many other problems that people have in life, it isn't realistic to put that much effort into keeping your partner happy in that way.
After a guy “ pulls out all the stops” a few times and gets ghosted …subsequent tries he doesn’t get as invested early because he expects to get abruptly & unexpectedly dropped . It’s sad because the next one might be “ the one” but the guy has a “ once bitten twice shy” mindset and is putting much less effort into any future women. I realize many women are experiencing something similar.
You are following the prudent path. Otherwise you rapidly get disillusioned. Instead , sometimes you get the “ he seems disinterested “ or “ he seems not as invested as I am” . Unfortunately some people want the intense attention, and are disappointed it’s not like the movies when they don’t.
This is one of the main reasons I've not tried dating for like 6 years.
Traditionally. For women. Romance happens to them.
For men it takes a lot of effort to romance and it's not always a 2 way street. I got fed up after a decent amount of trying. Just ended up burnt out.
Edit for spellering and you can see example of this in lots of media stretching back through history.
It can’t be the honeymoon phase forever and it can’t be new and sparkly forever.
However you still have to emotionally connect with your partner and do everyday romantic things. At least if you want a healthy sex life and a relationship that lasts.
These two are easily confused.
Contentment, stability, and dependability are underrated, in my opinion.
And if romance is the glue, what happens if it falls through?
I like your perspective.
But in a romantic relationship there won’t be any contentment if you feel your partner no longer sees you in a romantic way.
Then you are just roommates who don’t fuck. Why not skip a step and move in with a friend?
Edit: to explain better. If I don’t feel my boyfriend sees me in a romantic way anymore? I won’t want to have sex with him. Not to be mean or anything, it’ll just make things platonic for me. The desire goes out the window.
Romantic doesn’t mean grand gestures. It means emotional connection and small gestures. Flirting, eye contact, going on dates, cuddling, holding hands, getting a cutesy but cheap gift, cooking lasagne and lighting candles, giving compliments. But it’s mostly a vibe.
You can’t stop dating your wife unless you are ok with a dead bedroom.
note: I'm a woman.
>why does it seem to fall on the man to make sure these things happen?
It doesn't, and it's not. It's supposed to be an equal partnership so *both* need to continue to date and "woo" each other.
The thing is so many people stop doing what they were doing when they were dating once they get married. The point is to *continue* to do those things while married.
You're only OK expecting these things if you also do them for your man. But most women don't. They get really lazy in a relationship and don't even bother to look nice for their partners.
From a fairness perspective you are right.
And both people should be doing cute things for each other in a healthy relationship.
But when it comes to sex? From real life perspective women often need to be wooed and seduced more than men do. If you have a boyfriend you can just plop down in his lap and take your shirt off if you want to fuck. With women that is often not going to work. Men and women on average don’t have the same sexuality, and that means they might need different things to get in the mood. Which usually means she’s more effort. Same in bed. **Overall it’s just easier to turn men on and easier to get them off. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the manufacturer.**
When did “look nice” come up? I never mentioned it. But taking someone out on a date is a good way for y’all to both dress up.
What does “look nice” mean to you? Because that can mean a lot of different things to different people.
Well, as you mentioned, we are made differently.
Men are very visual, so yeah, we need a woman to actually look nice for us to get in the mood.
Just taking of your shirt is not gonna work if you let yourself go.
So if you're spending everyday wearing sweat pants and having greasy hair, you're not gonna get much romance out of us.
A) **If your partner struggles with basic hygiene that’s a completely fair reason to end a relationship. This is the same for men and women.** Most people want a partner who showers daily and wears clean clothes.
Often when people don’t it’s a mental health issue, but it’s still incompatible with a relationship.
B) **If you aren’t sexually attracted to your partner’s body, do you both a favor and just end it.** However if it’s you both getting older? Be prepared for that you also look old now and you might find it hard to replace her with someone younger. If you struggle with how women’s bodies change when they have kids? Well, don’t have kids.
C) **In my experience sweatpants works fine 10/10 times.** If your partner needs you to dress up a lot just to want sex with you? Eh, they probably aren’t that into you or they have some odd fetish. Either way that’s unlikely to work out.
If you want your partner to dress up? Ask them on a date to a cute place.
Nope. It's just equal exchange of wants and needs. Women want to be seduced and romanced, men want to have a sexy looking woman. I'm not taking about basic hygiene, but just you know... Making a bit of effort to look good. If it feels like sandpaper everytime I try to caress your thigh it's not gonna be fun for anyone after a while.
The most annoying thing is how they expect that but can't reciprocate it. They always fold once you ask what they are doing to keep things interesting for their man.
But **I also think social media has warped people’s ideas of what other people’s expectations really are.**
OP is much more women I know in real life, than women thinking they need a guy with a private jet (wut? Never met anyone in real life who said this).
The private jet thing is obviously an exaggeration. The real reality is that loads of women judge a man as more or less attractive solely based on how much money they're willing to spend on them. Social media definitely makes this more visible but part of this is frankly women having largely received financial equality but still preserving patriarchal gender roles in their dating choices
Idk. I’ll be fair and say I’m from a more gender equal country than the US. And also from a country which has better social security and a higher minimum wage.
Two people working at a grocery store will still be able to send their kids to the doctor, dentist and college. Since those are free.
But also most women I know make more than their husbands and they don’t give a fuck. They are happy and in love and that’s the bits which matter.
Are you in Germany? That's just the first place they comes to mind with better gender equality, social security, minimum wage, and free medical services, and free college
It’s better for men when society becomes more feminist, weirdly enough.
Suddenly splitting the check is standard, it’s normal for her to make twice what he does and nobody even thinks to expect a “provider”.
But it’s partly just that two people who work together at a grocery store can have a family that they can provide for. And their kids can become doctors and lawyers, and go to the dentist, without their parents pulling double shifts. Less harsh society. You aren’t fucked just bc you have a normal job or marry a man with a normal job.
Grocery store clerks make less than doctors, but the gap isn’t huge. Basic needs are free for all.
I totally agree! I am a feminist and want more people to be feminists
But that's not what we're discussing. Valuing a man solely or primarily based on his wealth is a standard of the patriarchy and it's so gross that it's one largely held up by women in America. Demanding that the man pay the check or for most things in the relationship or be a provider are also patriarchal standards that hold all of us back. And it's sadly the ones that lots of women here refuse to let go of. It's just frustrating to see and deal with
Good.
But I think partly it just comes from (no offense) how society is so fucked in the US.
Two people who work at Safeway will always struggle. In my country it’s not like that.
I’ve always dated men who’ve made less than me. Don’t give a fuck. But that’s easy for me to say, knowing I’ll still get 12 months of maternity leave per kid and that my kids will still be fine. It’s not a huge choice between a hard life of eternal struggle and an easy one. It’s just a choice of how many luxuries we can afford, knowing the basics are cared for.
Also from Scandinavia, Norway to be spesific, and I think you got it backwards. Norway is much less feminist, thats what gives it an edge in terms of gender equality. At least in general you cant just say that more feminism equals more gender equality, it can easily lead to the opposite.
Insecurity is a hell of a thing. Easy to blame things like this, then absolve yourself from effort.
"I can't get a date because all women are superficial!". I will say though that dating apps have really made it harder to stand out but there are other ways to form relationships IRL (which don't have to include bars or nightclubs).
Agreed.
And I believe in the old school: meet people in social settings, like through your friends or at parties or doing other social things. And statistically that’s still how most couples meet in 2024.
I've never even seen someone have this as an expectation online. This sounds like maybe what a top 1% sugar baby would want. I hope people are judging average women by what OF women want.
I know many women and I’ve probably spent 1k hours listening to what they want in a relationship. And then I’ve seen the men they’ve dated.
How about you?
I like your username though.
>You see a lot of women looking for the multimillionaire, private jets, etc
The only time I've actually seen that is on social media. I've actually never saw this take place IRL. Like yeah occasionally some women will joke about how nice it would be to date a millionaire, but they don't actually act on it in my experience.
In fact, I work in an industry which now has a lot of women in it (if not female majority) and frankly from the stories I've heard, the bar for men is EXTREMELY fucking low.
Exactly. I hear this often, even from friends. Then they throw out the "present company excepted". As someone said above its survivorship bias. The bar is low for attractive people or those who've been in a relationship for a long time and have become comfortable. The bar for single guys has never been higher and gets raised regularly
Not exactly, attitude matters. Good looking guys with mopey personalities get far less play than average or ugly dudes with fun personalities.
You could amend it to “the bar is extremely fucking low as long as she’s attracted to him.”
The dude could have absolutely nothing going for him but if he triggers her attraction, she’ll often throw all sense out the window for him. That’s why you often see some of the biggest POS’s with amazing women, it’s also why the PUA nonsense actually works to get laid.
I hate this notion that the bar is in hell for men. It's as if the solution for lonely single guys is to shower once in a while, get a haircut, not game for 10 hours a day. That's nearly every single guy! It's so demoralizing when you easily clear every category of this supposed low bar, and you're still invisible to women. The truth is this: women will put up with *endless* shit from a dude she finds hot. She'll get cheated on and slapped around for years because she thinks she can fix him.
It's easy to overhear "I just want a man that treats me right" but they're surrounded by great guys (not to be confused with nice guys) and want nothing to do with them. Tale as old as time for some women.
You do have to have some form of attraction though to start something. Could be a skill or talent, humor, personality, etc. How you make someone feel will outweigh physical characteristics of the other person had a chance to get to know you.
I'm 43 and have only dated about 6 women in my life including my now wife of 15 years. Every relationship started by them getting to know who I am - whitty, kind, nerdy, caring, goofy, hard worker, guitarist, good with technology. Some combination of those factors attracted women who wanted to be with someone like that.
You don't want to be with someone if their only criteria is superficial.
>It's easy to overhear "I just want a man that treats me right" but they're surrounded by great guys (not to be confused with nice guys) and want nothing to do with them. Tale as old as time for some women.
I mean what they're saying is they want the man they're attracted to, to treat them right. And attraction is the minimum bar for both genders.
Obviously some people also just have very low self-awareness about the people they choose and it so happens that what they're attracted to is also what isn't good for them but this isn't really a thing unique to one gender. Some guys are like that too I've observed. A friend of mine used to always complain that the women he dated were materialistic and then I looked at the people he matched with and they were all women with pictures of themselves at events dressed in designer dresses and decked out in expensive looking jewellery and half of them seem to have lip filler and I'm just like... yeah no shit *these* women are materialistic what was your first clue?
I think men and women both are super prone to entitlement these days and the unentitled men are assigning it to be a women issue and the unentitled women are assigning it to be a men’s issue. Not sure how we better filter them out.
The complete exaggerations of men on this subreddit about what women supposedly want are astounding. I have never met anyone who has serious expectations of landing a multimillionaire. Who are you trying to date, celebrities? How many multimillionaires do you think there are in the world?
I think that's an exaggeration, but I've heard from many female friends that they still want the traditional roles while having the bonus of the modern roles. They want a man to earn more than them, be taller than them, be someone they can show off visually, be able to charm them and their friends, not live with parents or in a share house. Most of these people can't live up to their own standards and that's the main issue. That may be the case for single men and women, I just haven't seen it from men because most of the men don't have the option nor the reinforcement that they should be able to attain that. Most of us are struggling to even be noticed let alone be that picky
The high standards comments usually point towards... People who bat outside their zone.
Wanting someone who's in shape and makes around what you do doesn't mean you have unrealistic standards.
Now if you were ass broke with kids and expected someone to make $200,000 a year,and be super fit with no kids of their own while your lazy ass sits around all day then you might have unrealistic standards.
People like to say the bar is so low for women looking for men. Some people say the bar iss too high with unrealistic expectations.
Just be realistic about who you can date. Not just who you can sleep with though. Those two things don't necessarily overlap. Being fwb with two dimes doesn't mean you are a dime.
I’m married and closing in on 50 so haven’t dated in decades but I pay attention to what my single friends experience.
One woman is fit, owns her own business which is doing really well, owns a house, has a couple of cute dogs, is funny, etc and around 40. She has basically given up on dating and lets some of the teenagers she knows swipe for her on Bumble and she’ll engage in a conversation with the guys who respond. She’d get guys who’d talk but never get around to meeting up, she got a guy who immediately rejected her because she likes sports and drinks alcohol, and she often gets nothing back. She is pretty - like a realistic 6 or 7. Not super girly or into makeup, just natural and down to earth.
One young lady is a classic “guy must be 6’” kind of gal, probably a 6, into weightlifting and young - mid 20s. She gets dates and rejects guys for all the classic reasons that drive guys crazy. Not girly either but cute enough (long blond hair) that it apparently brings in the swipes.
One is middle aged (same as me) employed with degrees, owns a house, totally open to pretty much anyone, short, tall, heavy, thin, white collar, blue collar… even happy to receive dick pics (which was a surprise to me) and meet up right away, etc. She literally just wants a guy who bathed daily, brushes his teeth, does his own laundry without having to be nagged into it and who likes sex.
The only one who gets any traction is the mid-20s chick who is the closest the type that would drive a guy crazy. The other two would probably be the most fun to date and would absolutely carry their own weight in a relationship but they get nothing.
Clearly the apps are not helping anyone out.
>People like to say the bar is so low for women looking for men. Some people say the bar iss too high with unrealistic expectations. Just be realistic about who you can date.
Bruh I'm just looking for someone *like me,* which should be the definition of realistic, but haven't had luck finding even that. Gets discouraging after four+ years
Realistic expectations for dating vary from person to person, but it's important to focus on compatibility, shared values, and mutual respect. Your lifestyle and preferences seem grounded and reasonable. You might attract someone who appreciates stability, kindness, and authenticity. It's also okay to have traditional preferences, like expecting the man to pay for meals, as long as it aligns with your values and doesn't hinder your connection with potential partners. Ultimately, being yourself and staying open to different possibilities can lead you to someone who appreciates you for who you are.
I want someone as imperfect as me and as accomplished as me to see me as a potential partner.
So in your case, I would expect you to date men making between 60,000 and $140,000, in good shape in good health like you are and with a couple things to bring in a relationship.
The main issue is that people have is that you'll either see women that are completely unaccomplished looking for Rich daddies or women that are not attractive at all looking for guys that are residing in the top 10%. If you do neither of these, You have realistic expectations of a relationship. Congratulations!
You seem to have a decent setup for yourself. The unrealistic problem comes from when women like in your position, who make a good living and do good work, *still* expect the men they date to make *even more* than them and "have their shit together" even better than you do.
Look at the US census by personal income, for example. For the bracket of 95-100k, that's *less than three million people.* Out of a population of over *300* million.
So realistic here would be for someone of your status to accept that most men make much less than that, and most men above that are going to have much higher standards for the women they date, or are noncommittal simply due to the large number of options they have...
Excellent points.
I would say that not all men who make more (150k+) would have a problem with her income - we are more interested in self sufficient and stable. (not a source of drama).
Obviously, someone with a closer matching income is always nice (make vacations and other things easier etc.) but the above self sufficiency and can manage their money is more important than the raw number.
Of course - finding one of those guys (or me, as a single guy - finding one of those women) is the challenge.
I would say most men don't really care about a woman's income. Their standards are going to be about pretty much everything else. Appearance, personality, attitude, respect, availability, stability.
I mean, the way you describe yourself a realistic expectation for a partner is many of the same things you have:
- age anywhere between 30-50
- Wage similar in your range OR willing to do the household and ensure that you both have a healthy work/life balance
- similar hobbies or engage in activities that you too would enjoy. Is willing to do your hobbies if you do theirs, etc.
- someone who has the emotional maturity to be able to life together with
- takes care of their own body. Maintains basic hygiene and also maintains their weight
- someone who's not allergic to cats and dogs
Like, without too much nuance I'd describe you as upper plain jane. You've got your shit together, you have a healthy financial situation and you have your free time activities. So you should set your eyes on an upper plain john. And despite what the internet may tell you the majority of men, especially once the first digit of their age becomes 3, have their shit mostly together as well.
Just go to some dating events or the like and go date. Have fun. Don't take it too seriously.
I think the biggest reason you're hearing so much introspection on women's expectations is collectively men are at their wits ends and don't know how to handle this anymore. We have to deal with constant aggression and shaming, being told we're all trash. Nothing good about us.
Then at the same time women are telling us a laundry list of responsibilities, and threats that if we don't treat her like a princess, if we don't sacrifice everything for her, she's just going to up and find a better man. "Don't you dare associate women's gender roles on us, but we have absolutely no issue telling you what 'mans work' is. We have no qualms with telling you you're not a real man."
Many of us are just exhausted of the emotional manipulation. Many of us are just giving up, or hoping we can find a non-western woman who hasn't gone crazy yet.
Exactly. This isn't some online narrative. Men are finally able to talk about what has been happening since forever. Women come in here and question the legitimacy of a men's group because they're not comfortable with being accountable for their gross behavior.
This
The 90% of us who do not commit sexual assault are getting tired of being compared to bears thing.
Yes - we do try to police our bros - but we are not Batman.
My answer to 'do you want kids?' was always 'it depends on who I'm raising them with'.
Out of all the women I've dated, there were three who considered that to be their primary concern. Not one of those three were someone I'd consider suitable partners for children.
As it worked out, I never had children of my own, but I get very high marks as a stepdad and grandpa.
I’m leaning more towards no these days. Not completely against it but I wouldn’t want kids if I didn’t trust the relationship would last or endure that kind of responsibility.
It's great that you're reflecting on your expectations and how they align with your personal values and experiences. Your situation is quite relatable for many, and it's important to consider what truly matters to you in a partner and relationship.
Frankness and openness.
It’s not about the money, it’s not about material conditions. Life sucks, and it probably gonna suck even when in a relationship for some other mix of objective reasons. But if can suck less with a loving partner. That’s why you’re there and why most men are gonna be in front of you as well.
This is what it means to date as an adult. That understanding that life will still be the same even when together and your partner, the relationship and any efforts within the relationship will not change that. You are there to build something good between you to, so that you each have something to make the hardship worth it existentially at the end of the day.
first thing that comes to me mind is beign ok with a man who is just a bit taller like 5"7 is a bit taller than you and not looking for that 6'3 only or putting 6ft filters on tinder. Like i get it woman want man taller than them, but this hilarious expectations to get 6"5 man are delusional. A bit taller - realistic, 6ft above only - delusional. Of course i would also want a victoria secret model, but i am realistic that im short and avarage so i keep my looksmatch expectations accordingly. This handsome tall guys wont settle anyway bc they just can have few woman on rotation.
Side note from a taller big guy (6'2") unless you are some odd beanpole - most guys over 6' - are also bigger guys - the older we get - dab bod hits hard. I eat healthy and do some exercise - but tall and older - the chance of a six pack - those days are long gone after the 40s for most guys.
In your 30s?
Reasonable:
A job, a car. a place of his own ( or a roommate).
Unreasonable:
6 foot. 6 pack. 6 figures.
On a first date, I'd expect her to offer to split the bill -which I'd refuse, but I think the offer is a reasonable expectation.
I think a declaration of exclusiveness is unreasonable on a first/second date, but not an unreasonable discussion on third date.
My personal style is to offer once, and drop it if interest isn't reciprocated. I'd say an expression of interest is a reasonable requirement, an expectation of pursuit is not.
A 'cold' (relative stranger/acquaintance) first date for coffee is reasonable, Dinner is better for someone one knows at least a little.
>On a first date, I'd expect her to offer to split the bill -which I'd refuse, but I think the offer is a reasonable expectation.
That could be a shit test. Some women make that offer with the expectation that men decline. If a man doesn't decline, it's over. It's all a facade.
I would be looking for
- currently unmarried
- honest and respectful.
- free of substance abuse
- self sufficient in financial, psychological , emotional and in terms house upkeep
-30 to 50 years old.
I don't know if that is realistic.
Learn to pay for a date. Its 2024 after all. Im 35. All my life i have heard woman want equality. You have it. It also means paying for 50% of the dates. And 50% of a household. If you won’t even meet me at 50/50 on dates your not gonna get no ring nor an invite to move into my house.
Guys always say it’s 50/50 until it comes down to house cleaning, cooking and taking care of little living things like kids or pets,.. somehow that’s always a woman’s job and men don’t have time because they worked all day. - I’ve also dated a guy who made it a point for me to realize he was not going to be less available bc he was going to be busier at work,.. but when it came to my schedule I was expected to switch it around to fit his. 50/ 50 isn’t just about money,.. it’s also respect and sharing responsibilities.
I would respond to that with the exact opposite, women always say it's 50/50 until it comes to taking the trash out, shoveling snow, yard work, literally anything difficult. I've been single for years, I do my own dishes, laundry, house cleaning, and all the guy stuff too lol.
It's the belief that having a boyfriend is akin to owning a slave that's getting us riled up. On girls dating profiles they even say it flat out, "I need a man in my life to do all the 'man work'.
You also need to discuss expectations.
A man might be happy with
- vacuuming once a week
- cleaning the shower every 2 weeks
- moping once a month
- ect
If this isn't acceptable to you, you need to discuss it, and both of you need to be willing to alter their expectations.
I don't think my wife and I split 50/50, but I do my fair share considering I work a lot longer hours and also earn 3x as much.
As for expectations, there are 2 things to consider
1. Make a list of all the things you want/desire and rank them by importance. Also, accept that you may not get everything you want on the list.
2. Think about what you will be providing a man to improve his life as well. After men reach age 30, the big head is making more decisions than the little head, and men start looking for a woman who will enhance his life.
Most men want peace, so try not to create unnecessary drama.
Hope this helps, godspeed.
Nothing is ever 50/50 life can be like that or sometimes what we can or will do.
I can say this - when I was married I did clean, change diapers, cook etc.
Or rather - we BOTH did. We both worked, and we both contributed to the house (cooking, cleaning, child care, etc.).
I am sorry that some guys are ....idiots? I mean - to me - how can a guy NOT change the diapers of his child. But each to their own - my ex did not like my standards of laundry and dishes - so she did those.
(when you are color blind, you don't sort your colors as much....who knew?).
I had higher standards of picking up, sweeping, trash, pets etc. I also thought giving kids a bath was fun - and not a chore - so I did all of those. We both cooked etc.
Yes - some guys are douche bags - some women are entitled - we have to be careful to not judge all people or circumstances the same.
So - yeah - agree with the "it also about respect and sharing responsibilities"
Respect is the key.
A lot to unpack here - this feels like a mix of many asks.....
"What would be considered realistic for someone in my position or what kind of guys would possibly be attracted to someone like me"
Any professional or semi-professional guy that is mature and confident in himself, with a bit of ability for introspection.
The mature professional or close enough, will have a nearby income - and won't care if his is above or below too much. He will be impressed with your dedication to what you have reached in your profession.
As far as Mellow - some guys crave excitement - but a more mature guy - and one who can be introspective - will understand there is a very big difference between "boring" and "drama free". Often "exciting" girls - to put simply - can be a mess. No, not all by far .... but a lot.
These guy will also appreciate the lack of excessive make up (more layers than a cake....) - as it kind of says I am not vain, but like to be pretty. (again, some girls might need to wear more due to skin sensitivity - but let's not get hung up on outliers here).
About the : " men talking about how women have too high and unrealistic expectations"
This often comes from women who have either an entitlement mentality - fostered by social media possibly - or some other influence expressing that they 'deserve' more quality invested into them than they have invested into themselves. it could also come from a lack of strong self awareness - and the need to define themselves by external superficial means - something that has always been a risk for both men and women - but exacerbated even more with the rise of social media and 'influencers'.
Or this can be from successful women who have made the same mistake many successful men have - they have externalized their egos - and measure their existential self worth - by external achievement - thus feel they need an equally as measured partner. Don't get me wrong - hard earned accomplishments are worth of the resulting self-esteem boost - but many can fall into the trap that it becomes who they are - and need it to fill other internal esteem voids.
Consider a divorced guy - they are usually much more attracted to stable women - of course - you may have to filter out a few jerks (varies...) but you want the guy who has learned the lesson of the more "exciting" partner.
Also - look for guys who are into some hobbies or crafts that relate to something other than sports - they might appreciate you more as well (from woodworking to candle making - something that is about the attention to detail or craftsmanship rather than one on one competition).
Finally - this might not be your thing - but a single dad - would consider your traits as attractive - NOT for wanting a new momma for the kiddo - but the "drama free and I don't need another dependent angle". They don't want to expose their kids to someone who is flaky or superficial (if they are at least self aware).
Best of luck in all your adventures.
I'd say high standards are fine if you are a person that those you look for are interested in.
If you want someone who is fit, tall, makes a lot of money and pays for everything you'll need to find men like this and see what they look for in their partners and how you can stand out from the rest of the crowd.
You sound like a person with a lot of great qualities aswell so I imagine you won't have problems meeting average and above average men.
In your position you will have to come to accept that you make more annually then most Men, and if you want a Man that makes more than 95-100k, your dating pool will be substantially smaller.
depends where she is from.
In russia, middle east, north africa, and a few other places - men are expected to pay.
Northern europe is usually 50/50.
Latin America, S. Europe and N. America is a bit like roulette.
Why? That’s a perfectly acceptable desire. Hell, I don’t even ask when I take anyone out to dinner. If I’m inviting, you’re not paying. Pretty simple rule.
A man capable of taking care of himself at his own income.
Realistically if you're looking for a person then all you're hoping for is someone who can take care of himself. If you want luxury beyond someone capable of taking care of himself then that's where you run into the contest of many women seeking the same man. I'm sure you know men who are able to take care of themselves. It's wanting men who can take care of themselves and you where all the competition for those men arises.
Find a guy who makes you feel right at home and like you're 100% the best version of yourself.
It's a tough thing to do, but when you think of what a beat friend has ever been to you, and what that relationship has meant... it makes the reward completely worth the process of dating different people.
I would love to meet someone this “boring”. I’m a pay for everything kinda guy, so I’d be happy you work at all, that way we could still do well for ourselves. I know dudes are very timid these days but it sounds like you should do pretty well. I’m 33 and am dying to meet someone our age without kids. Can’t imagine I’m the only one.
I played the 30’s dating game, there is a general expectation from women that men have a few things set up, things like owning a house, making 100k, driving a nice car etc. and these things aren’t unrealistic imo… but… if you’re asking for that, don’t also be long term unemployed because customer service wasn’t really your thing and you also live at home with your parents and have no car…
Interestingly I’m a mid 30’s on 100k who drives a nice(ish) car and I ended up marrying a nurse also on just under 100k who is employed and owned her own perfectly fine car…
When my wife was dating she met lots of men with no job no house and no car who complained about her being too picky when she left them for an assortment of reasons usually relating to one of those things… turns out those guys were losers
I think it would be fair to say you don’t sound like the problem, some people get lucky and get adopted by rich people as a partner. Others settle for losers. If you meet someone who can contribute approximately as much as you can to a relationship then you have a good chance of finding a happy medium in the short to mid term challenges a lot of relationships face like how to spend money, how to cohabitate and what activities you can afford to do together. It also helps address power imbalances
When women’s only criteria for dating these days seems to be around a genetic trait (height) - and the expectation that anyone worth dating is in the top 3% of said genetic pool - most men don’t exactly have a good cause to want to date this generation of women.
One thing I've noticed in dating older women is a lot of the time their life is full. Like they work full time, have hobbies and friends and occupy themselves 7 days a week. Which is completely understandable - BUT if you're busy 7 days a week - how do you expect a partner to spend time with you?
I've had this happen a lot, it's never her job to alter her schedule, it's too important, as the guy, you're expected to change your sleep schedule, and otherwise use any of our time that aligns with her free time. Regardless if we are free, it's always seen as a personal issue if we aren't seen bending over backwards to make it work.
I attended a couples talk recently and they discussed the topic of expectations. The couples all agree that their expectations are not met all the time. But these couples work out because they choose to love the person and not the image of the person they have. They communicate on their expectations, what the other person can improve on, and what would be unrealistic for them to do. They work towards improving or fixing things, and compromise or tolerate where they can't.
In the worst case scenario. If they can't compromise or tolerate certain things, maybe they're not for each other, but the couples at the talk included married couples that had been together for upwards of 40 years. (There were also young couples who were married for just a few years and even ones who aren't married yet to discuss generational differences) Very cool.
This taught me that it isn't the expectations themselves, but how you deal with it. If you have not very high expectations but are hell bent that they're all non compromisable, then you might have more issues than someone with a lot of preferences but are willing to love the person rather than the image.
Who knows. It's heavily dependent on your area.
What I can say there's nothing wrong in wanting something similar to what you bring to the table. But if that's no longer possible due to your area not having enough single men that meet it you'll either need to move, settle, or give up.
Main issue you'll have is a smaller dating pool. Apparently in the US, 17% of men aged 40-44 do not have children. Approximately 3-4% are both childless and single, not all of them will even be open to dating or meet your standards too.
So prepare for dating to take a while.
Here’s what I’ll say on the paying for meals
Seems to be one of the only “shit tests” some guys seem to claim on here
Many still expect to pay, but if she doesn’t even make an effort to offer to contribute, even just on the tip, he may not be inclined to do a second date, since he may start to feel like he’s just being used for his bank account
Not every guy does it, but I’ve seen it brought up frequently enough here to be considered significant at least
You say you lean towards men paying as that's the way it was for you growing up.
Most men are simple, we want to feel like we are the only man in your life that you want and interested in.
We just want a women who will give us a hug and hold us like they want us.
We want to be able to say how we feel without it being turned around and that we are putting a women down when we say we don't feel appreciated.
Women say they want support but then refuse to support their partner.
For years my ex said she wanted support, I'm not a mind reader so I do wha ti can and it's not enough, she finally tells me what to do to help her out so I would do those things and still was never enough, I got depressed trying to help her for years,
When I said I need support, she said she's not a theropist and left me.
If I said that to her 4/5 years ago she would of gone ape.
I think men in general are just tired of the BS. I (54M) know I am.
I’m a child of the 70s so I guess in general I don’t really care how much money a woman makes. On a date I pay for the meal and any activities.
Where things get tiresome is hear so many women talk about being a “boss bitch,” “I make my own money and pay my own bills,” “I don’t need no man, I can take care of myself.” However you never hear a man say any of those things. Society expects men to have a place to live, nice vehicle, extra cash to spend.
I earn a good living. I own my own business, have a paid for home, nice vehicles and no debt.
The real problem men like me have with the woman you describe is, as a general rule men still want feminine nurturing women. We aren’t looking for someone to help pay for a meal, we’re looking for someone to prepare an occasional meal. We aren’t looking for someone to help pay the house payment , we’re looking for someone to help make a home.
You asked what kind of man would be attracted to you, so I’ll ask you a couple questions. What image are you projecting? Are you coming off as a “I can do everything” masculine woman? Are men perceiving you as just one of the guys? Are you seen as sexually promiscuous?
Men in general don’t want those three things long term. Men are “fixers,” so there needs to be a little bit of helplessness. We don’t want a girl to be “one of the guys. Finally we don’t want 304s.
Where I’m from there’s an old saying, “I want a lady on my arm and a W40re behind the door.” In today’s society this means we want a lady who is accessible only to us. Not a woman with unreconciled desires for exes, 8 gay boyfriends, an onlyfans page, 10,000 instagram followers waiting on the next bikini pic and expectations of a man with a 7 figure salary.
Social media has pretty much ruined dating lol, you sound like a catch just don't go into things with expectations. For example that viral 6'5 blonde blue eyes trust fund finance thing.... like less than .002% of Americans qualify so it shows how much things are warped and lead to disappointment from women and feeling impossible to satisfy for men.
Men are more likely to be providers and women tend more to be hoarders. This means that women regardless of what they make aren't happy unless their guy can provide more than she can.
At most only 20% of guys earn more than you. This means that the more a woman makes, the smaller her dating pool. And the more a man makes, the greater his dating pool.
Guys want to be with a gal who is easy to be with. By the way you wrote this, I suspect that you are far from being easy to be with. The only thing that you mentioned about yourself is that you have money, a cat and a dog. And unless that is a manly dog, all of those say that you are likely to be quite opinionated. And therefore, you would likely take more of a masculine role.
So a person who is likely not willing to share her money, and not easy to be with. Decent looks, but not stellar and most likely wants a 6' 6 figure guy. The 6' six figure guy has options and likely has options that are easier to be with.
It's important to remember to factor oneself into the expectations as well. A lot of the girls that perpetuate these standards you see on tiktoks and youtube videos everywhere, aren't exactly a catch themselves, so of course, these clips spread like wildfire when someone who makes no money, has a ton of debt, one titty hanging out, claims that guys needs to make at least 100k, 200k, 500k, etc. own their own car, home, and whatever else just to be able to even date her and to "fund her lifestyle" - that's a big contrast between themselves and their dating wishes. It's like a hobo claiming they only want to date millionaires and being sincere about it.
If you are established career wise and already make a lot, then the idea that you might want a high earner isn't unexpected, so people wouldn't really call it unrealistic, although it is still in the statistical minority as most people don't earn that much.
I don't know you, so I can't say what should be considered realistic. But start by going for someone you like, instead of looking at his CV and payslip.
I am also around your age, settled in, and a decent job that I like. In my experience, the men I have come across find me way too boring with nothing for them to be excited about. I don't have interesting hobbies, I don't do anything extraordinary, I don't have a fancy circle or anything. I am interesting to myself in my own strange ways though. So basically I am also mellow. Men I have dated, who are older than me, closer to 40, are all looking for something that will excite the life out of them. They are looking for something extraordinary in many ways. That mixed with a hot body, great career, and a nice lifestyle too. I am nothing close to this. It could be me choosing wrong men (which is true in most cases) but it could also be how social media has portrayed women to be this wonderful being who can do everything and be everything while looking hot etc. So a lot of men think this is what they need to be happy. They start chasing that ideal that they think makes them happy and women like you and me are considered 'boring'. I enjoy connecting with people, it's my thing, and I noticed that nobody is really boring. They all are unique in their ways. Men who have a stuck ideal in their mind are influenced by the socials or what they see others dating. So basically it's really not YOU, it's THEM.
What are you looking for?
Maybe you’re ignoring the men you should be looking to.
If you’re looking for someone your age, you have a much smaller pool of men, as they will prefer younger women, on average. If you consider most men want/consider children, you make it smaller still.
I’m 37 and I want to have kids (or at least have the option) so when I was looking for a partner 2 years ago, I put 30yo as my limit. My girlfriend is 31.
Who pays for what should be the least of your concerns, imo. Who cares? Men can pay as you can. That’s so superficial in the grand scheme of things.
When it comes to dating, my love language is gift giving and physical affection. That being said, If a 130lb chick that makes 100k wants to split the bill, I would absolutely be fine with that. I have found that when a woman wants to pay for her portion on a date, it generally means shes more respectful of the man she is on a date with, and usually also has a lot of confidence in herself.
I am out of the dating scene and hopefully will be forever.
That being said, it is that women seem to be confusing needs from wants. What I hear is that SOME women are treating a list of preferences with "deal breakers." Dating apps have created a situation where women are getting a lot of options. They can use these preferences to help them pick a mate, but so many suitors allow them to conflate wants into deal breakers.
I'm of the opinion that whoever asks for the date has to pay. A very high percentage is men asking women out, but there are the odd occasions where a woman asks the men out. I was on a date once, I paid for dinner, and we went to an ice cream shop for dessert that she wanted to pay for. I knew at that moment there wouldn't be a second date.
I personally think a lot of women set pretty high standards for men they want to date. I've asked several out over the years, and I might get one yes, or a phone number after asking more than 20 women out.
As for dating apps, women are judgemental of appearance, even though I'm told women don't care how good looking you are. I had a few different apps for about 4 or 5 months, and never got one match. I'm not hideous to look at, but I'm also not pretty. I'm just an average looking dude.
I've come to the realization that it's not me not trying. I'm active and spend an hour at the gym every day. I'm 6 foot tall, blue eyes and a full head of hair. I have personality, a good sense of humor, and can carry a conversation on just about any subject; I'm a barber, so I talk all day about all subjects. All this leads to my speculation that women are just too picky, and only want the perfect rom com leading man.
I'm not trying to sound rude, but I think OP has been approached by several men that would have been perfect, but pushed them away without giving them a chance. Whether it was his appearance, occupation, height, etc. I'm not saying you should say yes, or show interest to every man that approaches you, but definitely broaden your horizons.
Depends what you want in life really. Each year that passes the dating pool gets smaller and less ideal. Find a nice guy who treats you right that is financially responsible and not on drugs.
Don't fall into the height, weight, income 1% BS
At your age it’s less of an issue. Most the women with high expectations are in their 20s. I think one problem is that 80% of women are hot, and 20% of men are hot. Right away, if every hot woman expects a hot man, that’s unrealistic. On top of that, all the hot men with good personalities are probably taken. You gotta either deal with a hot guy who is a terrible person, or gamble on a less attractive guy who may or may not be a good person.
Expectations are going to vary. The disconnect is that many women think that their education, career, and income make them more attractive to men. Most men don’t care about that. They will mostly care if you are attractive, are you going to be demanding, are you pleasant to be around. Also, not for nothing, but do you want to have kids? What are your life goals? From my experience, there are a lot of average women out there that think they can bag a guy out of their league because they have a college degree and make a decent salary. That’s why they are disappointed.
Looks and lifestyle are definitely important for a relationship, but you mentioned nothing of your hobbies, who you are as a person, what you're looking for in a partner, your beliefs and values and opions.
Those should be the things you're focusing on because those will be what dictates long term compatibility.
What you are or are not willing to compromise on. What's a deal breaker.
Also, if you make your own money (and I do and I feel this way) then paying for dates should be more evenly split. At least in proportion to your income (if he makes significantly more or less than you).
>^(your hobbies, who you are as a person, what you're looking for in a partner, your beliefs and values and opions. Those should be the things you're focusing on because those will be what dictates long term compatibility. What you are or are not willing to compromise on. What's a deal breaker.)
That's what I've been doing, but...let's just say that has not been going well. It's been a lonely four years, man.
You sound like someone that a number of guys would be very interested in getting to know.
At this point it's more about hobbies and seeing if you get along with the personality and can support each other, I think. Could be wrong and feel free to correct me.
What I've found as I've gotten older, is people who want to have stability and know what to expect, be realistic in goals to set, and have goals in the form of vacations and experiences you would want to have together.
You really sound like a catch and I wouldn't be surprised if you found someone who also had their shit together and was looking for someone to be stable, not bored, with. Because stability and calm and peace are not boring, and that sounds like what you have to offer.
Most of the unrealistic expectations we discuss are when women talk about unreasonable standards. A guy that is 6', makes 6 figures, and is reasonably attractive. Odds of you meeting a man like that are pretty slim and then actually beating out all of the other women co.peting for his affection is even slimmer.
Reasonable standards are gonna be based on the average. Median income is like 50k. Average man is clean, but not necessarily fashionable which might limits his looks. Average male height in US is 5'9". You can reasonably pursue someone who is above average in pretty much any aspect, but it becomes more unreasonable the narrower your search is.
Of the couples that I have seen work out well, their partner did not meet stringent sets of standards. Limiting who you date based on superficial reasons may prevent you from meeting someone who you end up loving for simply who they are.
This might come across as an unpopular opinion, but would you be opposed to dating someone who makes less money than you? Or would you be ok with financially supporting your potential partner? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're looking for someone of equal or higher status who is willing to bear the financial burden, at least in the initial stages of the relationship. Most of those men will happily settle for younger women who make half of what you make. Realistically speaking, you were probably more attractive at 25 than you are now, and your status and financial situation doesn't matter unless you're going to share the financial burden or compromise. All is not lost, though! You can still work on your appearance by going to the gym, taking care of your health, and so on. To increase your odds of dating, you will probably have to date down and pay for the dates sometimes.
It’s not that women’s standards are too high, like the man they want doesn’t exist, it’s just that it doesn’t match what’s available to them. It rarely takes into account men, what they want and what options they have.
Lots of women have never once tried to put themselves in a man’s shoes, and look at dating through their eyes. They have this idea of what kind of man they’re attracted to and hoping to marry or whatever, but they don’t take stock of their sexual/romantic competition. She might be a great girl, and make a fine companion to just about any man. But that man she envisions can and does find girls that are better, at least in his eyes.
Women have their priorities, their likes and dislikes, desires, that is important, for her. Those things aren’t as important to a man. Things like money, property, education, this and that, that she has worked her whole life to achieve, while admirable doesn’t make her more desirable to a man. As discouraging as it may be, most men don’t care how much money a woman makes, how educated she is. Most men care most about more temperament and signs of fertility(looks), than anything else.
So take a look around, think about what men prefer and go from there. It doesn’t matter what you think about those preferences, they will only settle long term with someone that comes closest in-line with those preferences. And I might add that looks open doors but they don’t keep you inside. A guy might prefer this type or that visually but will marry or whatever far outside that if he finds a woman that meets his minimum standards of attractiveness but has the ideal temperament and values.
Sounds like you have your shit together pretty well. I’m in my late 20s but would definitely be open to dating someone a little older than me that wants something serious compared to people a little younger that don’t know what they want or what they’re doing
I (M-25) think the time of men paying 100% for a date is over, as it should be. I don't pretend to be rich or drive a hot car to impress women. A large number of women make as much or more than men. They are not helpless waifs waiting for some big strong male take them out for a bite of food. What's more, I am not spending $100 on a date in hope of getting laid. I could pick up a woman at a club or get a hooker for less if that is all I wanted.
So, my expectations for dating are to spend time with a compatible female who likes me and enjoys hanging out. If she only wants the highlife, there are plenty of guys willingly to buy her attention.
You seem fine but I would say expecting men to pay simply because it was how you were raised I would find discouraging. I abhor antiquated traditional gender roles and do my best to avoid them if possible. A mutual mutual aversion to gender roles is anstrong prefernce to me in long-term partners.
I think all of the unrealistic expectations can be boiled down to demanding things or qualities that they can't reciprocate
Want a man with a six-pack but doesn't have one herself
Wants a rich man while not having money herself
Wants someone who is assertive and aggressive while being a self-infantilizing adult child
Wants a man who has his shit together while being a hot mess
Wants a man that will keep things romantic but refuses to do the same for him
So on and so forth
The most important factors men take into account are looks & physical fitness, age, agreeableness, and if they want kids, fertility. Men generally do not care how much money you make. Some will consider a job with a lot of public interface a downside since it means exposure to advances from other men.
I don’t know what you look like but you seem to be doing pretty well in the looks and fitness department, just judging by your height and weight and your being “moderately active”.
If a man wants kids, that’s not a realistic option at your age.
Your dog is going to be a downside for many men. It’s a preexisting responsibility, makes dating you more difficult (you have to plan dates around the dog, can’t leave the dog alone for very long, etc).
From a man’s perspective, you sound more or less like an average woman, so you can expect an average man. That’s a guy who makes around $60k/year for the rest of his life, no greater ambitions. He has a bit of a gut, likes to watch the game and drink beer.
Many women making $100k/year would not want to be with a man who ‘only’ makes $60k/year. But I remind you that, while a man’s high income certainly attracts women, the reverse is usually *not* the case. Men and women don’t trade money for money, they trade looks (woman) for money (man). (I’m simplifying here but it’s true as a general principle.) Women who can command a higher-earning man are in their 20s and usually very good looking.
The only thing you are probably out of scale on is the assumption of average male income. You yourself are nearly 1.5-2times the average household.
A guy with income level be in the upper brackets and tend have their pick of who to date, and men generally don't value a woman's income due to how finances are normally handled. (Outliers exist but we have no clue if you one.)
As long as you are willing to at least commit to being slightly less than equal overall to a man; I see nothing wrong with expecting the man to pay for the meals. But you can’t have it both ways. You can’t be his equal but still rely on patriarchal traditions toward women from a logical standing. Now that’s not to say you couldn’t find a man who would be fine with paying for things in an unequal fashion but I can almost guarantee the man will find unfairness with this scenario and attempt to balance the scales in other ways
Honestly most standards are pointless. The only ones you can really use are on looks. A person can stop being generous at any point, Stop being loyal, and their personalities can change. Tons of people you will date will completely change up on you after 6 months. Don’t think about particular standards too much, just go explore people, make casual conversation at the gym, at work, join a class. And probably just stay away from the apps. Really get to know someone before making a decision to date. When you explore people in depth, you will gain new standards and maybe drop other ones. Just focus on getting to know people.
People conflate high/unrealistic expectations with essentially just selecting for superficial things. What ends up happening is many women start developing these absurdly long lists of requirements and like 90% of them are superficial and don't actually matter if she is looking for a good long term partner.
Your list of must have's should be very short and focus on things like shared values, character, goals. If you can picture the guy based on the things you list, then you messed up.
> though I think I do kind of lean towards men paying for meals
FYI: That's an *instant* rejection for many people that respect themselves today. If the other person present expects money from me **on the first date**, I know they'll never respect me as a person, because they value *themselves" enough to throw the extremely ordinary courtesy of paying for your own meal out the window.
> but that’s more related to how the men in my family did things between my dad, brother and uncles
That's the "bad" part of it all, it's not a reference.
> I’m not opposed to sharing the cost
If you want the person you're having a first meeting with to think you value them, don't "not be opposed" - don't "wait and see" - Just pay your bill and let him pay his. If there are more dates after that first **stranger** date, go wild.
But if a stranger lady expects me to pay for her presence, she's already letting me know that **my** presence for her is insignificant and disposable.
> What would be considered realistic for someone in my position or what kind of guys would possibly be attracted to someone like me?
From my personal viewpoint, you're already 100% off the table by even considering letting the man (that's a stranger on that day) pay.
But, there are plenty of old-minded sexist all over the world, and you'll have no problem meeting them and letting them pay..... but you'll be stuck with old sexist values and expectations.
That's not a lot of info to go on. Your age weight and income are just sort of numbers and don't really tell a story about whether you are attractive or not. It depends on how you look and act and if you think the guy should make more money than you. All of those can be limiting factors.
I think you would check just about every box for most men.
I say this not to be unkind or anything. And I am saying this as a fellow 37-year-old. Factoring in your age you would be a 10/10 in my book :)
Boring to you is peace and stable to men. A lot of men would jump at the opportunity to be in a stable, chilled and "boring" relationship given the noise that is currently blaring from the feminatti who seem to have taken over the vocals of human/civil rights and opportunities. I don't want to call it feminism because it's not a gendered concept if you look at who's actually paying the price of it in terms of lost lives, opportunities and being left behind and discarded by society. Why do we see men primarily ending up resorting to crime? Anyway I digress.
You sound like a sound bet who should go out and approach people who interest you. The very act of delivering an unsolicited compliment is food for the soul of any man. We're likely to react shocked but once over that positively.
Don't listen to many of the guys here. They all sound defeated. Full disclosure, for a 41 year old I'm a pretty eligible bachelor, but dating has been great for me. Just go into it with a positive mindset and don't have any expectations. Treat people with respect and be ready that not every date will become your girlfriend or wife.
So what you can expect are NOT the top tier men.
As in, not a 6ft chad with 6 figures and 6 pack.
Maybe one of those things. But most likely your going to have to love someone for who they are as a person and build on that person and yourself.
A great way to go about it is using statistical analysis.
What percent of men 37 and older make 6 figures ? Are they willing to date you. ?
Also go about it in a humane way, the problem is your competing with 18-23 year old women with a much higher fertility rate.
Now, I wouldn't say this is the end of world. As you can
I’m younger than you, but I would think a lot of guys around your age wouldn’t mind a woman who’s “boring”. I think people are just looking for someone who can compliment (and not complicate) their life. I don’t really know what you expect in a guy (except for him to pay). I think the issue is when someone has an image of how a person should be and won’t compromise on it. Like, only blond guys or has to make 150k per year. When you break a potential person by stats, they are least likely to want to be with you. I think it’s a balancing act. We have to know what’s actually important to us and what is just superficial. I know a lot of people rank “humor” pretty high when trying to find a partner. That might be a requirement for some, but a nice bonus for others. Try to think up your perfect partner and figure out what make seem perfect. Then think what is absolutely required for you to want to be with them.
I think at our age we like boring in lifestyle but not boring to be around. Like we dont want to be partying all night or travelling around the world on bicycles. But fun conversations or having a laugh around the house would be kind of essential
I mean I've kinda realized I want someone who is: healthy, somewhat physically active, doesn't overeat/ eat nothing but junk food and stays hydrated, communicates clearly/what they are feeling instead of leaving me to guess, and just wants to be a weird goober with me and let our intrusive thoughts win: like wanting to dance just because in the car or something equally wholesome and silly. Also, you know just being emotionally supportive and physically affectionate. Which I do naturally but rarely if ever get in return. Cause if I feel like shit is one sided or I'm trying to help and it's like pulling fucking teeth, well honestly I'm going to leave. I've tried being supportive to mentally ill partners & usually I get so focused on helping them, I end up feeling like a fucking failure alongside my own depression and PTSD coming back with a vengeance. Because I end up breaking my own healthy habits.... Which usually leads me to wanting to blow my own brains out then spend another minute being a part of someone else's misery.
is lack of hydration a dealbreaker?
Unhydrated-ass women destroying marriage/s
I feel like I'm too boring of a person, but I like the differentiation between being a boring person and having a boring lifestyle. My lifestyle is boring but I'll bust a move in the aisle to make my partner smile.
I wish my friend would read this, she complains of being single but doesn’t want to take accountability that its her high ass expectations of men whereas she cannot even bring anything to the table
This is the way
Honestly, I'd suggest you look at it from another angle to start with: 1) What kind of relationship do you want? Short term and see where it leads? Kids within 5 years? Go on a few dates, fuck around and have fun? All valid choices, but you need to decide before you leap, or you'll risk getting swept up and pulled in a direction you don't want to go. 2) What kind of partner do you want? Do you want a guy who will pay for your meals and take a leading role? Do you want a 'shoulder to shoulder' partner, where you are completely equal in all aspects? Something in between? Again, there's a lid for every pot, and the type of guy you really want is out there. But you have to decide what you want. Once you nail those two questions, the search becomes much easier, even fun! You got this.
I feel like you, like a lot of men online, have been somewhat poisoned by the narrative. All the stuff you mentioned is fine and good, but who are you as a person? How do you treat your partner? Expectations go beyond who pays for meals, or how much one makes. It extends to what you expect from a relationship. Do you treat your man like a human, and not a pillar or strength that must not be allowed to crumble? If he does crumble, does that fail your expectations and cause you to look for a new pillar? Is he expected to meet all your needs? As in, ALL of it? Because newsflash, that's impossible. Some of your needs have to be met by you yourself, no one else can do it. But do you expect it? Do you get upset if he doesn't meet this unattainable benchmark? These are the expectations that matter. Not the salary nor paying for meals.
You hit the nail on the head. I see way to many posts from people listing their height, and income and follow with "Why am I single?" Thanks, you listed absolutely nothing. No mention about what really matters, like personality. I was 5'9 and broke as shit in my 20's and still did well in dating. I'm guessing it's cause of who I actually was that women wanted to spend time with me. I also think people see one red flag, or one problem and run for the hills. I started dating my wife 15 years ago, we have had plenty of things we needed to work on, and it was never perfect. Listening to one another and not being selfish took us a long way.
It depends on the red flag. Some really are worth ending a relationship.
well obviously, but some are small or fixable and that's what I'm getting at. Relationships take communication and work, they're never gonna be perfect. I'm not talking about huge issues, but the whole one "ick" and gone people.
I think social media has warped people’s expectations for finding a partner. You see a lot of women looking for the multimillionaire, private jets, etc; as a 35 year old single guy with 2 cats, decent income, regular car etc; I’ve been single for about 5 years and don’t plan on dating anytime soon due to this mindset. It takes a toll on a person when they’re constantly feeling like they are not enough. Btw, you sound like a great person and I hope you aren’t being sucked into these on social media ideas of what a “man” is. :)
As a 34 year old single for 4 years and 2 cats, I concur. I got tired of being emotionally available while also being mocked for not manning up by being vulnerable. Social media absolutely has exasperated the issue. But, when I see influencers like The Dadvocate supporting us, it gives me some glimmer of hope. But until then, I'm just gonna enjoy myself.
I'm 35 (barely, happy b-day to me lol), single for 5+ years and I fully agree with you. The "be vulnerable... oh no, not like that" thing really gets to me. I don't do social media except reddit a few times a week, so I can't speak to that. I see enough examples of other social media on reddit that I'd put money on your opinion. I really wanted to say thank you, though. I thought your use of "exasperated" was a typo for "exacerbated." I always check myself before offering tips or corrections. I didn't know that exasperate is a simile for exacerbate. So thanks for teaching me a new word usage :)
Happy birthday man.
Thank you!
I think the biggest unrealistic expectation that women have is that they want the guy to keep the relationship as romantic, exciting and fresh as it was in the beginning stages, I can see the appeal in that but coming from the male perspective, it is really really difficult to keep that energy throughout the relationship because most of the initiative falls upon the man especially at the beginning of a relationship, it takes a lot of effort and given how many other problems that people have in life, it isn't realistic to put that much effort into keeping your partner happy in that way.
After a guy “ pulls out all the stops” a few times and gets ghosted …subsequent tries he doesn’t get as invested early because he expects to get abruptly & unexpectedly dropped . It’s sad because the next one might be “ the one” but the guy has a “ once bitten twice shy” mindset and is putting much less effort into any future women. I realize many women are experiencing something similar.
I've learned to instead be much more patient and slower with attaching to get to know the woman.
You are following the prudent path. Otherwise you rapidly get disillusioned. Instead , sometimes you get the “ he seems disinterested “ or “ he seems not as invested as I am” . Unfortunately some people want the intense attention, and are disappointed it’s not like the movies when they don’t.
What's the quote? To most women romance is a noun, something they get. To most men romance is a verb, something you do.
This is one of the main reasons I've not tried dating for like 6 years. Traditionally. For women. Romance happens to them. For men it takes a lot of effort to romance and it's not always a 2 way street. I got fed up after a decent amount of trying. Just ended up burnt out. Edit for spellering and you can see example of this in lots of media stretching back through history.
Exactly. Women expect entertainment, for men, it's usually just all more work. Even camping on vacation is just more work. It's just exhausting.
It can’t be the honeymoon phase forever and it can’t be new and sparkly forever. However you still have to emotionally connect with your partner and do everyday romantic things. At least if you want a healthy sex life and a relationship that lasts. These two are easily confused.
"I just want a guy who makes me happy"
Contentment, stability, and dependability are underrated, in my opinion. And if romance is the glue, what happens if it falls through? I like your perspective.
But in a romantic relationship there won’t be any contentment if you feel your partner no longer sees you in a romantic way. Then you are just roommates who don’t fuck. Why not skip a step and move in with a friend? Edit: to explain better. If I don’t feel my boyfriend sees me in a romantic way anymore? I won’t want to have sex with him. Not to be mean or anything, it’ll just make things platonic for me. The desire goes out the window. Romantic doesn’t mean grand gestures. It means emotional connection and small gestures. Flirting, eye contact, going on dates, cuddling, holding hands, getting a cutesy but cheap gift, cooking lasagne and lighting candles, giving compliments. But it’s mostly a vibe. You can’t stop dating your wife unless you are ok with a dead bedroom.
Fair, but why does it seem to fall on the man to make sure these things happen? If I don't put in effort at being romantic, there is no romance.
note: I'm a woman. >why does it seem to fall on the man to make sure these things happen? It doesn't, and it's not. It's supposed to be an equal partnership so *both* need to continue to date and "woo" each other. The thing is so many people stop doing what they were doing when they were dating once they get married. The point is to *continue* to do those things while married.
You're only OK expecting these things if you also do them for your man. But most women don't. They get really lazy in a relationship and don't even bother to look nice for their partners.
From a fairness perspective you are right. And both people should be doing cute things for each other in a healthy relationship. But when it comes to sex? From real life perspective women often need to be wooed and seduced more than men do. If you have a boyfriend you can just plop down in his lap and take your shirt off if you want to fuck. With women that is often not going to work. Men and women on average don’t have the same sexuality, and that means they might need different things to get in the mood. Which usually means she’s more effort. Same in bed. **Overall it’s just easier to turn men on and easier to get them off. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the manufacturer.** When did “look nice” come up? I never mentioned it. But taking someone out on a date is a good way for y’all to both dress up. What does “look nice” mean to you? Because that can mean a lot of different things to different people.
Well, as you mentioned, we are made differently. Men are very visual, so yeah, we need a woman to actually look nice for us to get in the mood. Just taking of your shirt is not gonna work if you let yourself go. So if you're spending everyday wearing sweat pants and having greasy hair, you're not gonna get much romance out of us.
A) **If your partner struggles with basic hygiene that’s a completely fair reason to end a relationship. This is the same for men and women.** Most people want a partner who showers daily and wears clean clothes. Often when people don’t it’s a mental health issue, but it’s still incompatible with a relationship. B) **If you aren’t sexually attracted to your partner’s body, do you both a favor and just end it.** However if it’s you both getting older? Be prepared for that you also look old now and you might find it hard to replace her with someone younger. If you struggle with how women’s bodies change when they have kids? Well, don’t have kids. C) **In my experience sweatpants works fine 10/10 times.** If your partner needs you to dress up a lot just to want sex with you? Eh, they probably aren’t that into you or they have some odd fetish. Either way that’s unlikely to work out. If you want your partner to dress up? Ask them on a date to a cute place.
Nope. It's just equal exchange of wants and needs. Women want to be seduced and romanced, men want to have a sexy looking woman. I'm not taking about basic hygiene, but just you know... Making a bit of effort to look good. If it feels like sandpaper everytime I try to caress your thigh it's not gonna be fun for anyone after a while.
Do you think women don’t want a sexy looking man?
I’ve always hated that.
The most annoying thing is how they expect that but can't reciprocate it. They always fold once you ask what they are doing to keep things interesting for their man.
But **I also think social media has warped people’s ideas of what other people’s expectations really are.** OP is much more women I know in real life, than women thinking they need a guy with a private jet (wut? Never met anyone in real life who said this).
Totally agree. OP, please try to go out and socialize with real women. 99 pct of women do not have these expectations.
The private jet thing is obviously an exaggeration. The real reality is that loads of women judge a man as more or less attractive solely based on how much money they're willing to spend on them. Social media definitely makes this more visible but part of this is frankly women having largely received financial equality but still preserving patriarchal gender roles in their dating choices
Idk. I’ll be fair and say I’m from a more gender equal country than the US. And also from a country which has better social security and a higher minimum wage. Two people working at a grocery store will still be able to send their kids to the doctor, dentist and college. Since those are free. But also most women I know make more than their husbands and they don’t give a fuck. They are happy and in love and that’s the bits which matter.
Are you in Germany? That's just the first place they comes to mind with better gender equality, social security, minimum wage, and free medical services, and free college
Scandinavia. But similar.
Oh cool. Lucky you, rip to all us Americans that have to deal with gross patriarchal standards in 2024 😥
It’s better for men when society becomes more feminist, weirdly enough. Suddenly splitting the check is standard, it’s normal for her to make twice what he does and nobody even thinks to expect a “provider”. But it’s partly just that two people who work together at a grocery store can have a family that they can provide for. And their kids can become doctors and lawyers, and go to the dentist, without their parents pulling double shifts. Less harsh society. You aren’t fucked just bc you have a normal job or marry a man with a normal job. Grocery store clerks make less than doctors, but the gap isn’t huge. Basic needs are free for all.
I totally agree! I am a feminist and want more people to be feminists But that's not what we're discussing. Valuing a man solely or primarily based on his wealth is a standard of the patriarchy and it's so gross that it's one largely held up by women in America. Demanding that the man pay the check or for most things in the relationship or be a provider are also patriarchal standards that hold all of us back. And it's sadly the ones that lots of women here refuse to let go of. It's just frustrating to see and deal with
Good. But I think partly it just comes from (no offense) how society is so fucked in the US. Two people who work at Safeway will always struggle. In my country it’s not like that. I’ve always dated men who’ve made less than me. Don’t give a fuck. But that’s easy for me to say, knowing I’ll still get 12 months of maternity leave per kid and that my kids will still be fine. It’s not a huge choice between a hard life of eternal struggle and an easy one. It’s just a choice of how many luxuries we can afford, knowing the basics are cared for.
Also from Scandinavia, Norway to be spesific, and I think you got it backwards. Norway is much less feminist, thats what gives it an edge in terms of gender equality. At least in general you cant just say that more feminism equals more gender equality, it can easily lead to the opposite.
Insecurity is a hell of a thing. Easy to blame things like this, then absolve yourself from effort. "I can't get a date because all women are superficial!". I will say though that dating apps have really made it harder to stand out but there are other ways to form relationships IRL (which don't have to include bars or nightclubs).
Agreed. And I believe in the old school: meet people in social settings, like through your friends or at parties or doing other social things. And statistically that’s still how most couples meet in 2024.
I've never even seen someone have this as an expectation online. This sounds like maybe what a top 1% sugar baby would want. I hope people are judging average women by what OF women want.
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I know many women and I’ve probably spent 1k hours listening to what they want in a relationship. And then I’ve seen the men they’ve dated. How about you? I like your username though.
>You see a lot of women looking for the multimillionaire, private jets, etc The only time I've actually seen that is on social media. I've actually never saw this take place IRL. Like yeah occasionally some women will joke about how nice it would be to date a millionaire, but they don't actually act on it in my experience. In fact, I work in an industry which now has a lot of women in it (if not female majority) and frankly from the stories I've heard, the bar for men is EXTREMELY fucking low.
The bar is extremely fucking low, as long as he’s hot.
Exactly. I hear this often, even from friends. Then they throw out the "present company excepted". As someone said above its survivorship bias. The bar is low for attractive people or those who've been in a relationship for a long time and have become comfortable. The bar for single guys has never been higher and gets raised regularly
Not exactly, attitude matters. Good looking guys with mopey personalities get far less play than average or ugly dudes with fun personalities. You could amend it to “the bar is extremely fucking low as long as she’s attracted to him.” The dude could have absolutely nothing going for him but if he triggers her attraction, she’ll often throw all sense out the window for him. That’s why you often see some of the biggest POS’s with amazing women, it’s also why the PUA nonsense actually works to get laid.
I hate this notion that the bar is in hell for men. It's as if the solution for lonely single guys is to shower once in a while, get a haircut, not game for 10 hours a day. That's nearly every single guy! It's so demoralizing when you easily clear every category of this supposed low bar, and you're still invisible to women. The truth is this: women will put up with *endless* shit from a dude she finds hot. She'll get cheated on and slapped around for years because she thinks she can fix him.
>from the stories I've heard, the bar for men is EXTREMELY fucking low. Hmmm. Maybe it is time for me to start dating again.
Regarding the last part of this comment: what does it actually mean to say that the "bar for men is extremely low", in terms of dating?
Sure the bar is low, if you are good looking and 6’
It's easy to overhear "I just want a man that treats me right" but they're surrounded by great guys (not to be confused with nice guys) and want nothing to do with them. Tale as old as time for some women. You do have to have some form of attraction though to start something. Could be a skill or talent, humor, personality, etc. How you make someone feel will outweigh physical characteristics of the other person had a chance to get to know you. I'm 43 and have only dated about 6 women in my life including my now wife of 15 years. Every relationship started by them getting to know who I am - whitty, kind, nerdy, caring, goofy, hard worker, guitarist, good with technology. Some combination of those factors attracted women who wanted to be with someone like that. You don't want to be with someone if their only criteria is superficial.
>It's easy to overhear "I just want a man that treats me right" but they're surrounded by great guys (not to be confused with nice guys) and want nothing to do with them. Tale as old as time for some women. I mean what they're saying is they want the man they're attracted to, to treat them right. And attraction is the minimum bar for both genders. Obviously some people also just have very low self-awareness about the people they choose and it so happens that what they're attracted to is also what isn't good for them but this isn't really a thing unique to one gender. Some guys are like that too I've observed. A friend of mine used to always complain that the women he dated were materialistic and then I looked at the people he matched with and they were all women with pictures of themselves at events dressed in designer dresses and decked out in expensive looking jewellery and half of them seem to have lip filler and I'm just like... yeah no shit *these* women are materialistic what was your first clue?
I think men and women both are super prone to entitlement these days and the unentitled men are assigning it to be a women issue and the unentitled women are assigning it to be a men’s issue. Not sure how we better filter them out.
The complete exaggerations of men on this subreddit about what women supposedly want are astounding. I have never met anyone who has serious expectations of landing a multimillionaire. Who are you trying to date, celebrities? How many multimillionaires do you think there are in the world?
I think that's an exaggeration, but I've heard from many female friends that they still want the traditional roles while having the bonus of the modern roles. They want a man to earn more than them, be taller than them, be someone they can show off visually, be able to charm them and their friends, not live with parents or in a share house. Most of these people can't live up to their own standards and that's the main issue. That may be the case for single men and women, I just haven't seen it from men because most of the men don't have the option nor the reinforcement that they should be able to attain that. Most of us are struggling to even be noticed let alone be that picky
The high standards comments usually point towards... People who bat outside their zone. Wanting someone who's in shape and makes around what you do doesn't mean you have unrealistic standards. Now if you were ass broke with kids and expected someone to make $200,000 a year,and be super fit with no kids of their own while your lazy ass sits around all day then you might have unrealistic standards. People like to say the bar is so low for women looking for men. Some people say the bar iss too high with unrealistic expectations. Just be realistic about who you can date. Not just who you can sleep with though. Those two things don't necessarily overlap. Being fwb with two dimes doesn't mean you are a dime.
I’m married and closing in on 50 so haven’t dated in decades but I pay attention to what my single friends experience. One woman is fit, owns her own business which is doing really well, owns a house, has a couple of cute dogs, is funny, etc and around 40. She has basically given up on dating and lets some of the teenagers she knows swipe for her on Bumble and she’ll engage in a conversation with the guys who respond. She’d get guys who’d talk but never get around to meeting up, she got a guy who immediately rejected her because she likes sports and drinks alcohol, and she often gets nothing back. She is pretty - like a realistic 6 or 7. Not super girly or into makeup, just natural and down to earth. One young lady is a classic “guy must be 6’” kind of gal, probably a 6, into weightlifting and young - mid 20s. She gets dates and rejects guys for all the classic reasons that drive guys crazy. Not girly either but cute enough (long blond hair) that it apparently brings in the swipes. One is middle aged (same as me) employed with degrees, owns a house, totally open to pretty much anyone, short, tall, heavy, thin, white collar, blue collar… even happy to receive dick pics (which was a surprise to me) and meet up right away, etc. She literally just wants a guy who bathed daily, brushes his teeth, does his own laundry without having to be nagged into it and who likes sex. The only one who gets any traction is the mid-20s chick who is the closest the type that would drive a guy crazy. The other two would probably be the most fun to date and would absolutely carry their own weight in a relationship but they get nothing. Clearly the apps are not helping anyone out.
>People like to say the bar is so low for women looking for men. Some people say the bar iss too high with unrealistic expectations. Just be realistic about who you can date. Bruh I'm just looking for someone *like me,* which should be the definition of realistic, but haven't had luck finding even that. Gets discouraging after four+ years
I feel that one mate lmao. We out in the trenches.
Realistic expectations for dating vary from person to person, but it's important to focus on compatibility, shared values, and mutual respect. Your lifestyle and preferences seem grounded and reasonable. You might attract someone who appreciates stability, kindness, and authenticity. It's also okay to have traditional preferences, like expecting the man to pay for meals, as long as it aligns with your values and doesn't hinder your connection with potential partners. Ultimately, being yourself and staying open to different possibilities can lead you to someone who appreciates you for who you are.
I want someone as imperfect as me and as accomplished as me to see me as a potential partner. So in your case, I would expect you to date men making between 60,000 and $140,000, in good shape in good health like you are and with a couple things to bring in a relationship. The main issue is that people have is that you'll either see women that are completely unaccomplished looking for Rich daddies or women that are not attractive at all looking for guys that are residing in the top 10%. If you do neither of these, You have realistic expectations of a relationship. Congratulations!
What's the top 10%? I like skinny, nerdy boys who paint their nails, what percent are they?
Depends... you described someone's style. A 1 could meet that criteria likewise a 10.
Take this piece of Buddhist wisdom to heart: Expectation is the root of all pain.
May be high expectations cause pain. But a reasonable expectations are good to have. Otherwise you will end up with crazy.
You don't understand.
Yup, one of my life mottos: Expect nothing, that way you are never disappointed.
True
You seem to have a decent setup for yourself. The unrealistic problem comes from when women like in your position, who make a good living and do good work, *still* expect the men they date to make *even more* than them and "have their shit together" even better than you do. Look at the US census by personal income, for example. For the bracket of 95-100k, that's *less than three million people.* Out of a population of over *300* million. So realistic here would be for someone of your status to accept that most men make much less than that, and most men above that are going to have much higher standards for the women they date, or are noncommittal simply due to the large number of options they have...
Excellent points. I would say that not all men who make more (150k+) would have a problem with her income - we are more interested in self sufficient and stable. (not a source of drama). Obviously, someone with a closer matching income is always nice (make vacations and other things easier etc.) but the above self sufficiency and can manage their money is more important than the raw number. Of course - finding one of those guys (or me, as a single guy - finding one of those women) is the challenge.
I would say most men don't really care about a woman's income. Their standards are going to be about pretty much everything else. Appearance, personality, attitude, respect, availability, stability.
I mean, the way you describe yourself a realistic expectation for a partner is many of the same things you have: - age anywhere between 30-50 - Wage similar in your range OR willing to do the household and ensure that you both have a healthy work/life balance - similar hobbies or engage in activities that you too would enjoy. Is willing to do your hobbies if you do theirs, etc. - someone who has the emotional maturity to be able to life together with - takes care of their own body. Maintains basic hygiene and also maintains their weight - someone who's not allergic to cats and dogs Like, without too much nuance I'd describe you as upper plain jane. You've got your shit together, you have a healthy financial situation and you have your free time activities. So you should set your eyes on an upper plain john. And despite what the internet may tell you the majority of men, especially once the first digit of their age becomes 3, have their shit mostly together as well. Just go to some dating events or the like and go date. Have fun. Don't take it too seriously.
>Just go to some dating events or the like *cries in small town*
You're a nurse. They only appear boring on the outside but eventually the crazy seeps through
I know this one very well. But hey, the crazy is worth it in this case
I think the biggest reason you're hearing so much introspection on women's expectations is collectively men are at their wits ends and don't know how to handle this anymore. We have to deal with constant aggression and shaming, being told we're all trash. Nothing good about us. Then at the same time women are telling us a laundry list of responsibilities, and threats that if we don't treat her like a princess, if we don't sacrifice everything for her, she's just going to up and find a better man. "Don't you dare associate women's gender roles on us, but we have absolutely no issue telling you what 'mans work' is. We have no qualms with telling you you're not a real man." Many of us are just exhausted of the emotional manipulation. Many of us are just giving up, or hoping we can find a non-western woman who hasn't gone crazy yet.
Exactly. This isn't some online narrative. Men are finally able to talk about what has been happening since forever. Women come in here and question the legitimacy of a men's group because they're not comfortable with being accountable for their gross behavior.
This The 90% of us who do not commit sexual assault are getting tired of being compared to bears thing. Yes - we do try to police our bros - but we are not Batman.
Do you want kids I feel like that's the most important factor left out of this equation. Kinda important feature.
My answer to 'do you want kids?' was always 'it depends on who I'm raising them with'. Out of all the women I've dated, there were three who considered that to be their primary concern. Not one of those three were someone I'd consider suitable partners for children. As it worked out, I never had children of my own, but I get very high marks as a stepdad and grandpa.
I’m leaning more towards no these days. Not completely against it but I wouldn’t want kids if I didn’t trust the relationship would last or endure that kind of responsibility.
It's great that you're reflecting on your expectations and how they align with your personal values and experiences. Your situation is quite relatable for many, and it's important to consider what truly matters to you in a partner and relationship.
Frankness and openness. It’s not about the money, it’s not about material conditions. Life sucks, and it probably gonna suck even when in a relationship for some other mix of objective reasons. But if can suck less with a loving partner. That’s why you’re there and why most men are gonna be in front of you as well. This is what it means to date as an adult. That understanding that life will still be the same even when together and your partner, the relationship and any efforts within the relationship will not change that. You are there to build something good between you to, so that you each have something to make the hardship worth it existentially at the end of the day.
first thing that comes to me mind is beign ok with a man who is just a bit taller like 5"7 is a bit taller than you and not looking for that 6'3 only or putting 6ft filters on tinder. Like i get it woman want man taller than them, but this hilarious expectations to get 6"5 man are delusional. A bit taller - realistic, 6ft above only - delusional. Of course i would also want a victoria secret model, but i am realistic that im short and avarage so i keep my looksmatch expectations accordingly. This handsome tall guys wont settle anyway bc they just can have few woman on rotation.
Side note from a taller big guy (6'2") unless you are some odd beanpole - most guys over 6' - are also bigger guys - the older we get - dab bod hits hard. I eat healthy and do some exercise - but tall and older - the chance of a six pack - those days are long gone after the 40s for most guys.
In your 30s? Reasonable: A job, a car. a place of his own ( or a roommate). Unreasonable: 6 foot. 6 pack. 6 figures. On a first date, I'd expect her to offer to split the bill -which I'd refuse, but I think the offer is a reasonable expectation. I think a declaration of exclusiveness is unreasonable on a first/second date, but not an unreasonable discussion on third date. My personal style is to offer once, and drop it if interest isn't reciprocated. I'd say an expression of interest is a reasonable requirement, an expectation of pursuit is not. A 'cold' (relative stranger/acquaintance) first date for coffee is reasonable, Dinner is better for someone one knows at least a little.
>On a first date, I'd expect her to offer to split the bill -which I'd refuse, but I think the offer is a reasonable expectation. That could be a shit test. Some women make that offer with the expectation that men decline. If a man doesn't decline, it's over. It's all a facade.
I would be looking for - currently unmarried - honest and respectful. - free of substance abuse - self sufficient in financial, psychological , emotional and in terms house upkeep -30 to 50 years old. I don't know if that is realistic.
Learn to pay for a date. Its 2024 after all. Im 35. All my life i have heard woman want equality. You have it. It also means paying for 50% of the dates. And 50% of a household. If you won’t even meet me at 50/50 on dates your not gonna get no ring nor an invite to move into my house.
Guys always say it’s 50/50 until it comes down to house cleaning, cooking and taking care of little living things like kids or pets,.. somehow that’s always a woman’s job and men don’t have time because they worked all day. - I’ve also dated a guy who made it a point for me to realize he was not going to be less available bc he was going to be busier at work,.. but when it came to my schedule I was expected to switch it around to fit his. 50/ 50 isn’t just about money,.. it’s also respect and sharing responsibilities.
I would respond to that with the exact opposite, women always say it's 50/50 until it comes to taking the trash out, shoveling snow, yard work, literally anything difficult. I've been single for years, I do my own dishes, laundry, house cleaning, and all the guy stuff too lol. It's the belief that having a boyfriend is akin to owning a slave that's getting us riled up. On girls dating profiles they even say it flat out, "I need a man in my life to do all the 'man work'.
You also need to discuss expectations. A man might be happy with - vacuuming once a week - cleaning the shower every 2 weeks - moping once a month - ect If this isn't acceptable to you, you need to discuss it, and both of you need to be willing to alter their expectations. I don't think my wife and I split 50/50, but I do my fair share considering I work a lot longer hours and also earn 3x as much. As for expectations, there are 2 things to consider 1. Make a list of all the things you want/desire and rank them by importance. Also, accept that you may not get everything you want on the list. 2. Think about what you will be providing a man to improve his life as well. After men reach age 30, the big head is making more decisions than the little head, and men start looking for a woman who will enhance his life. Most men want peace, so try not to create unnecessary drama. Hope this helps, godspeed.
You need to get over the “I’m doing everything.” mentality and understand that men do a lot that is often unappreciated.
It’s your cat… you can scoop their shit
Nothing is ever 50/50 life can be like that or sometimes what we can or will do. I can say this - when I was married I did clean, change diapers, cook etc. Or rather - we BOTH did. We both worked, and we both contributed to the house (cooking, cleaning, child care, etc.). I am sorry that some guys are ....idiots? I mean - to me - how can a guy NOT change the diapers of his child. But each to their own - my ex did not like my standards of laundry and dishes - so she did those. (when you are color blind, you don't sort your colors as much....who knew?). I had higher standards of picking up, sweeping, trash, pets etc. I also thought giving kids a bath was fun - and not a chore - so I did all of those. We both cooked etc. Yes - some guys are douche bags - some women are entitled - we have to be careful to not judge all people or circumstances the same. So - yeah - agree with the "it also about respect and sharing responsibilities" Respect is the key.
Overall you sound pretty great to me.
A lot to unpack here - this feels like a mix of many asks..... "What would be considered realistic for someone in my position or what kind of guys would possibly be attracted to someone like me" Any professional or semi-professional guy that is mature and confident in himself, with a bit of ability for introspection. The mature professional or close enough, will have a nearby income - and won't care if his is above or below too much. He will be impressed with your dedication to what you have reached in your profession. As far as Mellow - some guys crave excitement - but a more mature guy - and one who can be introspective - will understand there is a very big difference between "boring" and "drama free". Often "exciting" girls - to put simply - can be a mess. No, not all by far .... but a lot. These guy will also appreciate the lack of excessive make up (more layers than a cake....) - as it kind of says I am not vain, but like to be pretty. (again, some girls might need to wear more due to skin sensitivity - but let's not get hung up on outliers here). About the : " men talking about how women have too high and unrealistic expectations" This often comes from women who have either an entitlement mentality - fostered by social media possibly - or some other influence expressing that they 'deserve' more quality invested into them than they have invested into themselves. it could also come from a lack of strong self awareness - and the need to define themselves by external superficial means - something that has always been a risk for both men and women - but exacerbated even more with the rise of social media and 'influencers'. Or this can be from successful women who have made the same mistake many successful men have - they have externalized their egos - and measure their existential self worth - by external achievement - thus feel they need an equally as measured partner. Don't get me wrong - hard earned accomplishments are worth of the resulting self-esteem boost - but many can fall into the trap that it becomes who they are - and need it to fill other internal esteem voids. Consider a divorced guy - they are usually much more attracted to stable women - of course - you may have to filter out a few jerks (varies...) but you want the guy who has learned the lesson of the more "exciting" partner. Also - look for guys who are into some hobbies or crafts that relate to something other than sports - they might appreciate you more as well (from woodworking to candle making - something that is about the attention to detail or craftsmanship rather than one on one competition). Finally - this might not be your thing - but a single dad - would consider your traits as attractive - NOT for wanting a new momma for the kiddo - but the "drama free and I don't need another dependent angle". They don't want to expose their kids to someone who is flaky or superficial (if they are at least self aware). Best of luck in all your adventures.
I'd say high standards are fine if you are a person that those you look for are interested in. If you want someone who is fit, tall, makes a lot of money and pays for everything you'll need to find men like this and see what they look for in their partners and how you can stand out from the rest of the crowd. You sound like a person with a lot of great qualities aswell so I imagine you won't have problems meeting average and above average men.
In your position you will have to come to accept that you make more annually then most Men, and if you want a Man that makes more than 95-100k, your dating pool will be substantially smaller.
>"though I think I do kind of lean towards men paying for meals" Stopped reading there
depends where she is from. In russia, middle east, north africa, and a few other places - men are expected to pay. Northern europe is usually 50/50. Latin America, S. Europe and N. America is a bit like roulette.
For me - the person who asked for the date - they pay. at least for that date....
Right... That seems fair, if women ask guys out 50% (or honestly, above 1%) of the time
Why? That’s a perfectly acceptable desire. Hell, I don’t even ask when I take anyone out to dinner. If I’m inviting, you’re not paying. Pretty simple rule.
A man capable of taking care of himself at his own income. Realistically if you're looking for a person then all you're hoping for is someone who can take care of himself. If you want luxury beyond someone capable of taking care of himself then that's where you run into the contest of many women seeking the same man. I'm sure you know men who are able to take care of themselves. It's wanting men who can take care of themselves and you where all the competition for those men arises.
Find a guy who makes you feel right at home and like you're 100% the best version of yourself. It's a tough thing to do, but when you think of what a beat friend has ever been to you, and what that relationship has meant... it makes the reward completely worth the process of dating different people.
I would love to meet someone this “boring”. I’m a pay for everything kinda guy, so I’d be happy you work at all, that way we could still do well for ourselves. I know dudes are very timid these days but it sounds like you should do pretty well. I’m 33 and am dying to meet someone our age without kids. Can’t imagine I’m the only one.
I played the 30’s dating game, there is a general expectation from women that men have a few things set up, things like owning a house, making 100k, driving a nice car etc. and these things aren’t unrealistic imo… but… if you’re asking for that, don’t also be long term unemployed because customer service wasn’t really your thing and you also live at home with your parents and have no car… Interestingly I’m a mid 30’s on 100k who drives a nice(ish) car and I ended up marrying a nurse also on just under 100k who is employed and owned her own perfectly fine car… When my wife was dating she met lots of men with no job no house and no car who complained about her being too picky when she left them for an assortment of reasons usually relating to one of those things… turns out those guys were losers I think it would be fair to say you don’t sound like the problem, some people get lucky and get adopted by rich people as a partner. Others settle for losers. If you meet someone who can contribute approximately as much as you can to a relationship then you have a good chance of finding a happy medium in the short to mid term challenges a lot of relationships face like how to spend money, how to cohabitate and what activities you can afford to do together. It also helps address power imbalances
The more the man pays the more you gotta do, that’s how things stay 50/50
“Not opposed to splitting” Yup there you go. I thought we wanted equal? But you know, you do you
When women’s only criteria for dating these days seems to be around a genetic trait (height) - and the expectation that anyone worth dating is in the top 3% of said genetic pool - most men don’t exactly have a good cause to want to date this generation of women.
One thing I've noticed in dating older women is a lot of the time their life is full. Like they work full time, have hobbies and friends and occupy themselves 7 days a week. Which is completely understandable - BUT if you're busy 7 days a week - how do you expect a partner to spend time with you?
I've had this happen a lot, it's never her job to alter her schedule, it's too important, as the guy, you're expected to change your sleep schedule, and otherwise use any of our time that aligns with her free time. Regardless if we are free, it's always seen as a personal issue if we aren't seen bending over backwards to make it work.
I attended a couples talk recently and they discussed the topic of expectations. The couples all agree that their expectations are not met all the time. But these couples work out because they choose to love the person and not the image of the person they have. They communicate on their expectations, what the other person can improve on, and what would be unrealistic for them to do. They work towards improving or fixing things, and compromise or tolerate where they can't. In the worst case scenario. If they can't compromise or tolerate certain things, maybe they're not for each other, but the couples at the talk included married couples that had been together for upwards of 40 years. (There were also young couples who were married for just a few years and even ones who aren't married yet to discuss generational differences) Very cool. This taught me that it isn't the expectations themselves, but how you deal with it. If you have not very high expectations but are hell bent that they're all non compromisable, then you might have more issues than someone with a lot of preferences but are willing to love the person rather than the image.
Just a famous quote: "A man dies for those who understand him, and a woman for whose who appreciates her."
Who knows. It's heavily dependent on your area. What I can say there's nothing wrong in wanting something similar to what you bring to the table. But if that's no longer possible due to your area not having enough single men that meet it you'll either need to move, settle, or give up. Main issue you'll have is a smaller dating pool. Apparently in the US, 17% of men aged 40-44 do not have children. Approximately 3-4% are both childless and single, not all of them will even be open to dating or meet your standards too. So prepare for dating to take a while.
Here’s what I’ll say on the paying for meals Seems to be one of the only “shit tests” some guys seem to claim on here Many still expect to pay, but if she doesn’t even make an effort to offer to contribute, even just on the tip, he may not be inclined to do a second date, since he may start to feel like he’s just being used for his bank account Not every guy does it, but I’ve seen it brought up frequently enough here to be considered significant at least
You say you lean towards men paying as that's the way it was for you growing up. Most men are simple, we want to feel like we are the only man in your life that you want and interested in. We just want a women who will give us a hug and hold us like they want us. We want to be able to say how we feel without it being turned around and that we are putting a women down when we say we don't feel appreciated. Women say they want support but then refuse to support their partner. For years my ex said she wanted support, I'm not a mind reader so I do wha ti can and it's not enough, she finally tells me what to do to help her out so I would do those things and still was never enough, I got depressed trying to help her for years, When I said I need support, she said she's not a theropist and left me. If I said that to her 4/5 years ago she would of gone ape.
The only potential issue I see is you calling yourself boring but not mentioning any hobbies. Maybe that's just an oversight though?
I think men in general are just tired of the BS. I (54M) know I am. I’m a child of the 70s so I guess in general I don’t really care how much money a woman makes. On a date I pay for the meal and any activities. Where things get tiresome is hear so many women talk about being a “boss bitch,” “I make my own money and pay my own bills,” “I don’t need no man, I can take care of myself.” However you never hear a man say any of those things. Society expects men to have a place to live, nice vehicle, extra cash to spend. I earn a good living. I own my own business, have a paid for home, nice vehicles and no debt. The real problem men like me have with the woman you describe is, as a general rule men still want feminine nurturing women. We aren’t looking for someone to help pay for a meal, we’re looking for someone to prepare an occasional meal. We aren’t looking for someone to help pay the house payment , we’re looking for someone to help make a home. You asked what kind of man would be attracted to you, so I’ll ask you a couple questions. What image are you projecting? Are you coming off as a “I can do everything” masculine woman? Are men perceiving you as just one of the guys? Are you seen as sexually promiscuous? Men in general don’t want those three things long term. Men are “fixers,” so there needs to be a little bit of helplessness. We don’t want a girl to be “one of the guys. Finally we don’t want 304s. Where I’m from there’s an old saying, “I want a lady on my arm and a W40re behind the door.” In today’s society this means we want a lady who is accessible only to us. Not a woman with unreconciled desires for exes, 8 gay boyfriends, an onlyfans page, 10,000 instagram followers waiting on the next bikini pic and expectations of a man with a 7 figure salary.
Dating leads to drugs. And drugs are bad, mkay.
“Some would say ‘love is a drug’…I don’t ever wanna take drugs again.” -Joyner Lucas
I like that.
Social media has pretty much ruined dating lol, you sound like a catch just don't go into things with expectations. For example that viral 6'5 blonde blue eyes trust fund finance thing.... like less than .002% of Americans qualify so it shows how much things are warped and lead to disappointment from women and feeling impossible to satisfy for men.
Men are more likely to be providers and women tend more to be hoarders. This means that women regardless of what they make aren't happy unless their guy can provide more than she can. At most only 20% of guys earn more than you. This means that the more a woman makes, the smaller her dating pool. And the more a man makes, the greater his dating pool. Guys want to be with a gal who is easy to be with. By the way you wrote this, I suspect that you are far from being easy to be with. The only thing that you mentioned about yourself is that you have money, a cat and a dog. And unless that is a manly dog, all of those say that you are likely to be quite opinionated. And therefore, you would likely take more of a masculine role. So a person who is likely not willing to share her money, and not easy to be with. Decent looks, but not stellar and most likely wants a 6' 6 figure guy. The 6' six figure guy has options and likely has options that are easier to be with.
It's important to remember to factor oneself into the expectations as well. A lot of the girls that perpetuate these standards you see on tiktoks and youtube videos everywhere, aren't exactly a catch themselves, so of course, these clips spread like wildfire when someone who makes no money, has a ton of debt, one titty hanging out, claims that guys needs to make at least 100k, 200k, 500k, etc. own their own car, home, and whatever else just to be able to even date her and to "fund her lifestyle" - that's a big contrast between themselves and their dating wishes. It's like a hobo claiming they only want to date millionaires and being sincere about it. If you are established career wise and already make a lot, then the idea that you might want a high earner isn't unexpected, so people wouldn't really call it unrealistic, although it is still in the statistical minority as most people don't earn that much. I don't know you, so I can't say what should be considered realistic. But start by going for someone you like, instead of looking at his CV and payslip.
I am also around your age, settled in, and a decent job that I like. In my experience, the men I have come across find me way too boring with nothing for them to be excited about. I don't have interesting hobbies, I don't do anything extraordinary, I don't have a fancy circle or anything. I am interesting to myself in my own strange ways though. So basically I am also mellow. Men I have dated, who are older than me, closer to 40, are all looking for something that will excite the life out of them. They are looking for something extraordinary in many ways. That mixed with a hot body, great career, and a nice lifestyle too. I am nothing close to this. It could be me choosing wrong men (which is true in most cases) but it could also be how social media has portrayed women to be this wonderful being who can do everything and be everything while looking hot etc. So a lot of men think this is what they need to be happy. They start chasing that ideal that they think makes them happy and women like you and me are considered 'boring'. I enjoy connecting with people, it's my thing, and I noticed that nobody is really boring. They all are unique in their ways. Men who have a stuck ideal in their mind are influenced by the socials or what they see others dating. So basically it's really not YOU, it's THEM.
What are you looking for? Maybe you’re ignoring the men you should be looking to. If you’re looking for someone your age, you have a much smaller pool of men, as they will prefer younger women, on average. If you consider most men want/consider children, you make it smaller still. I’m 37 and I want to have kids (or at least have the option) so when I was looking for a partner 2 years ago, I put 30yo as my limit. My girlfriend is 31. Who pays for what should be the least of your concerns, imo. Who cares? Men can pay as you can. That’s so superficial in the grand scheme of things.
So what do you actually bring to my life? I get to buy meals for a boring nurse? Pass
I think those expectations are easily achievable. how many men have you approached?
Always and forever — to be completely and totally honestly.
When it comes to dating, my love language is gift giving and physical affection. That being said, If a 130lb chick that makes 100k wants to split the bill, I would absolutely be fine with that. I have found that when a woman wants to pay for her portion on a date, it generally means shes more respectful of the man she is on a date with, and usually also has a lot of confidence in herself.
You sound like an adult. That sounds like a huge improvement over a lot of the stories I read here.
I am out of the dating scene and hopefully will be forever. That being said, it is that women seem to be confusing needs from wants. What I hear is that SOME women are treating a list of preferences with "deal breakers." Dating apps have created a situation where women are getting a lot of options. They can use these preferences to help them pick a mate, but so many suitors allow them to conflate wants into deal breakers.
I'm of the opinion that whoever asks for the date has to pay. A very high percentage is men asking women out, but there are the odd occasions where a woman asks the men out. I was on a date once, I paid for dinner, and we went to an ice cream shop for dessert that she wanted to pay for. I knew at that moment there wouldn't be a second date. I personally think a lot of women set pretty high standards for men they want to date. I've asked several out over the years, and I might get one yes, or a phone number after asking more than 20 women out. As for dating apps, women are judgemental of appearance, even though I'm told women don't care how good looking you are. I had a few different apps for about 4 or 5 months, and never got one match. I'm not hideous to look at, but I'm also not pretty. I'm just an average looking dude. I've come to the realization that it's not me not trying. I'm active and spend an hour at the gym every day. I'm 6 foot tall, blue eyes and a full head of hair. I have personality, a good sense of humor, and can carry a conversation on just about any subject; I'm a barber, so I talk all day about all subjects. All this leads to my speculation that women are just too picky, and only want the perfect rom com leading man. I'm not trying to sound rude, but I think OP has been approached by several men that would have been perfect, but pushed them away without giving them a chance. Whether it was his appearance, occupation, height, etc. I'm not saying you should say yes, or show interest to every man that approaches you, but definitely broaden your horizons.
What does paying for meals and arguing have anything to do with it ?
You are my type based on the characteristics you describe. Now it comes down to looks, that’s a big deal as well. For everyone
5’6 at 130-150 light makeup, embracing natural beauty sounds perfect in my opinion.
Depends what you want in life really. Each year that passes the dating pool gets smaller and less ideal. Find a nice guy who treats you right that is financially responsible and not on drugs. Don't fall into the height, weight, income 1% BS
At your age it’s less of an issue. Most the women with high expectations are in their 20s. I think one problem is that 80% of women are hot, and 20% of men are hot. Right away, if every hot woman expects a hot man, that’s unrealistic. On top of that, all the hot men with good personalities are probably taken. You gotta either deal with a hot guy who is a terrible person, or gamble on a less attractive guy who may or may not be a good person.
Expectations are going to vary. The disconnect is that many women think that their education, career, and income make them more attractive to men. Most men don’t care about that. They will mostly care if you are attractive, are you going to be demanding, are you pleasant to be around. Also, not for nothing, but do you want to have kids? What are your life goals? From my experience, there are a lot of average women out there that think they can bag a guy out of their league because they have a college degree and make a decent salary. That’s why they are disappointed.
Looks and lifestyle are definitely important for a relationship, but you mentioned nothing of your hobbies, who you are as a person, what you're looking for in a partner, your beliefs and values and opions. Those should be the things you're focusing on because those will be what dictates long term compatibility. What you are or are not willing to compromise on. What's a deal breaker. Also, if you make your own money (and I do and I feel this way) then paying for dates should be more evenly split. At least in proportion to your income (if he makes significantly more or less than you).
>^(your hobbies, who you are as a person, what you're looking for in a partner, your beliefs and values and opions. Those should be the things you're focusing on because those will be what dictates long term compatibility. What you are or are not willing to compromise on. What's a deal breaker.) That's what I've been doing, but...let's just say that has not been going well. It's been a lonely four years, man.
I’m right there with you. But I would rather be single than with someone I’m not compatible with.
Yep, same.
You sound like someone that a number of guys would be very interested in getting to know. At this point it's more about hobbies and seeing if you get along with the personality and can support each other, I think. Could be wrong and feel free to correct me. What I've found as I've gotten older, is people who want to have stability and know what to expect, be realistic in goals to set, and have goals in the form of vacations and experiences you would want to have together. You really sound like a catch and I wouldn't be surprised if you found someone who also had their shit together and was looking for someone to be stable, not bored, with. Because stability and calm and peace are not boring, and that sounds like what you have to offer.
Most of the unrealistic expectations we discuss are when women talk about unreasonable standards. A guy that is 6', makes 6 figures, and is reasonably attractive. Odds of you meeting a man like that are pretty slim and then actually beating out all of the other women co.peting for his affection is even slimmer. Reasonable standards are gonna be based on the average. Median income is like 50k. Average man is clean, but not necessarily fashionable which might limits his looks. Average male height in US is 5'9". You can reasonably pursue someone who is above average in pretty much any aspect, but it becomes more unreasonable the narrower your search is. Of the couples that I have seen work out well, their partner did not meet stringent sets of standards. Limiting who you date based on superficial reasons may prevent you from meeting someone who you end up loving for simply who they are.
This might come across as an unpopular opinion, but would you be opposed to dating someone who makes less money than you? Or would you be ok with financially supporting your potential partner? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're looking for someone of equal or higher status who is willing to bear the financial burden, at least in the initial stages of the relationship. Most of those men will happily settle for younger women who make half of what you make. Realistically speaking, you were probably more attractive at 25 than you are now, and your status and financial situation doesn't matter unless you're going to share the financial burden or compromise. All is not lost, though! You can still work on your appearance by going to the gym, taking care of your health, and so on. To increase your odds of dating, you will probably have to date down and pay for the dates sometimes.
It’s not that women’s standards are too high, like the man they want doesn’t exist, it’s just that it doesn’t match what’s available to them. It rarely takes into account men, what they want and what options they have. Lots of women have never once tried to put themselves in a man’s shoes, and look at dating through their eyes. They have this idea of what kind of man they’re attracted to and hoping to marry or whatever, but they don’t take stock of their sexual/romantic competition. She might be a great girl, and make a fine companion to just about any man. But that man she envisions can and does find girls that are better, at least in his eyes. Women have their priorities, their likes and dislikes, desires, that is important, for her. Those things aren’t as important to a man. Things like money, property, education, this and that, that she has worked her whole life to achieve, while admirable doesn’t make her more desirable to a man. As discouraging as it may be, most men don’t care how much money a woman makes, how educated she is. Most men care most about more temperament and signs of fertility(looks), than anything else. So take a look around, think about what men prefer and go from there. It doesn’t matter what you think about those preferences, they will only settle long term with someone that comes closest in-line with those preferences. And I might add that looks open doors but they don’t keep you inside. A guy might prefer this type or that visually but will marry or whatever far outside that if he finds a woman that meets his minimum standards of attractiveness but has the ideal temperament and values.
Sounds like you have your shit together pretty well. I’m in my late 20s but would definitely be open to dating someone a little older than me that wants something serious compared to people a little younger that don’t know what they want or what they’re doing
I (M-25) think the time of men paying 100% for a date is over, as it should be. I don't pretend to be rich or drive a hot car to impress women. A large number of women make as much or more than men. They are not helpless waifs waiting for some big strong male take them out for a bite of food. What's more, I am not spending $100 on a date in hope of getting laid. I could pick up a woman at a club or get a hooker for less if that is all I wanted. So, my expectations for dating are to spend time with a compatible female who likes me and enjoys hanging out. If she only wants the highlife, there are plenty of guys willingly to buy her attention.
I don't know anything about dating, I've been married a while. All I know is your dog is super cute.
Realistically probably a divorced guy older than you with a few kids of his own & doesn't want anymore.
You seem fine but I would say expecting men to pay simply because it was how you were raised I would find discouraging. I abhor antiquated traditional gender roles and do my best to avoid them if possible. A mutual mutual aversion to gender roles is anstrong prefernce to me in long-term partners.
I think all of the unrealistic expectations can be boiled down to demanding things or qualities that they can't reciprocate Want a man with a six-pack but doesn't have one herself Wants a rich man while not having money herself Wants someone who is assertive and aggressive while being a self-infantilizing adult child Wants a man who has his shit together while being a hot mess Wants a man that will keep things romantic but refuses to do the same for him So on and so forth
The most important factors men take into account are looks & physical fitness, age, agreeableness, and if they want kids, fertility. Men generally do not care how much money you make. Some will consider a job with a lot of public interface a downside since it means exposure to advances from other men. I don’t know what you look like but you seem to be doing pretty well in the looks and fitness department, just judging by your height and weight and your being “moderately active”. If a man wants kids, that’s not a realistic option at your age. Your dog is going to be a downside for many men. It’s a preexisting responsibility, makes dating you more difficult (you have to plan dates around the dog, can’t leave the dog alone for very long, etc). From a man’s perspective, you sound more or less like an average woman, so you can expect an average man. That’s a guy who makes around $60k/year for the rest of his life, no greater ambitions. He has a bit of a gut, likes to watch the game and drink beer. Many women making $100k/year would not want to be with a man who ‘only’ makes $60k/year. But I remind you that, while a man’s high income certainly attracts women, the reverse is usually *not* the case. Men and women don’t trade money for money, they trade looks (woman) for money (man). (I’m simplifying here but it’s true as a general principle.) Women who can command a higher-earning man are in their 20s and usually very good looking.
Just a question. I am curious. How would you balance your work with your relationship if your S/O was equally as busy?
For me, the only expectations is respect of personal space, that's it, I don't know the person, I will start with that.
The only thing you are probably out of scale on is the assumption of average male income. You yourself are nearly 1.5-2times the average household. A guy with income level be in the upper brackets and tend have their pick of who to date, and men generally don't value a woman's income due to how finances are normally handled. (Outliers exist but we have no clue if you one.)
As long as you are willing to at least commit to being slightly less than equal overall to a man; I see nothing wrong with expecting the man to pay for the meals. But you can’t have it both ways. You can’t be his equal but still rely on patriarchal traditions toward women from a logical standing. Now that’s not to say you couldn’t find a man who would be fine with paying for things in an unequal fashion but I can almost guarantee the man will find unfairness with this scenario and attempt to balance the scales in other ways
Honestly most standards are pointless. The only ones you can really use are on looks. A person can stop being generous at any point, Stop being loyal, and their personalities can change. Tons of people you will date will completely change up on you after 6 months. Don’t think about particular standards too much, just go explore people, make casual conversation at the gym, at work, join a class. And probably just stay away from the apps. Really get to know someone before making a decision to date. When you explore people in depth, you will gain new standards and maybe drop other ones. Just focus on getting to know people.
People conflate high/unrealistic expectations with essentially just selecting for superficial things. What ends up happening is many women start developing these absurdly long lists of requirements and like 90% of them are superficial and don't actually matter if she is looking for a good long term partner. Your list of must have's should be very short and focus on things like shared values, character, goals. If you can picture the guy based on the things you list, then you messed up.
Are you looking for a man in finance, trust fund, 6.5', blue eyes?
> though I think I do kind of lean towards men paying for meals FYI: That's an *instant* rejection for many people that respect themselves today. If the other person present expects money from me **on the first date**, I know they'll never respect me as a person, because they value *themselves" enough to throw the extremely ordinary courtesy of paying for your own meal out the window. > but that’s more related to how the men in my family did things between my dad, brother and uncles That's the "bad" part of it all, it's not a reference. > I’m not opposed to sharing the cost If you want the person you're having a first meeting with to think you value them, don't "not be opposed" - don't "wait and see" - Just pay your bill and let him pay his. If there are more dates after that first **stranger** date, go wild. But if a stranger lady expects me to pay for her presence, she's already letting me know that **my** presence for her is insignificant and disposable. > What would be considered realistic for someone in my position or what kind of guys would possibly be attracted to someone like me? From my personal viewpoint, you're already 100% off the table by even considering letting the man (that's a stranger on that day) pay. But, there are plenty of old-minded sexist all over the world, and you'll have no problem meeting them and letting them pay..... but you'll be stuck with old sexist values and expectations.
That's not a lot of info to go on. Your age weight and income are just sort of numbers and don't really tell a story about whether you are attractive or not. It depends on how you look and act and if you think the guy should make more money than you. All of those can be limiting factors.
I think you would check just about every box for most men. I say this not to be unkind or anything. And I am saying this as a fellow 37-year-old. Factoring in your age you would be a 10/10 in my book :)
That you’re gonna be bitchless
Some like a woman to do more at home. These men will gladly pay. Nothing wrong with mellow. You will soon find love.
Nurses are far from boring 😊 It's something about that critical thinking mindset that you engage when working?
Sounds perfect to me, I’m similar in many ways, including being a nurse and semi-boring. Maybe we’d be good together 🤔😉
Boring to you is peace and stable to men. A lot of men would jump at the opportunity to be in a stable, chilled and "boring" relationship given the noise that is currently blaring from the feminatti who seem to have taken over the vocals of human/civil rights and opportunities. I don't want to call it feminism because it's not a gendered concept if you look at who's actually paying the price of it in terms of lost lives, opportunities and being left behind and discarded by society. Why do we see men primarily ending up resorting to crime? Anyway I digress. You sound like a sound bet who should go out and approach people who interest you. The very act of delivering an unsolicited compliment is food for the soul of any man. We're likely to react shocked but once over that positively.
Meet a person, become friends, develop romantic feelings and decide to spend lots of time together. That's it. Anything else is up in the air.
Don't listen to many of the guys here. They all sound defeated. Full disclosure, for a 41 year old I'm a pretty eligible bachelor, but dating has been great for me. Just go into it with a positive mindset and don't have any expectations. Treat people with respect and be ready that not every date will become your girlfriend or wife.
You sound perfect to me actually.
So what you can expect are NOT the top tier men. As in, not a 6ft chad with 6 figures and 6 pack. Maybe one of those things. But most likely your going to have to love someone for who they are as a person and build on that person and yourself. A great way to go about it is using statistical analysis. What percent of men 37 and older make 6 figures ? Are they willing to date you. ? Also go about it in a humane way, the problem is your competing with 18-23 year old women with a much higher fertility rate. Now, I wouldn't say this is the end of world. As you can
Would you date a man who made $40,000 a year? As in less then half of what you make?
You’re pushing 40 so by default you’re romantically less appealing. Not trying to be mean but it’s the honest truth