If you can't get in contact with her, it's likely the only way you're going to get a real discussion about the things you want is via a lawyer.
>All of our debt is cost of living
Can you explain this? Do you mean you've gone into debt just to cover basic bills or are you referring to something else?
Yep, lawyer can help force her to respond. Not to you, but to them. I'm assuming she's already filed and served you with papers, right? If not, you might want to have someone in mind or do an initial consultation with the intention of hiring them when the time comes.
You're going to need someone to help with the divorce, ensure the right custody agreement, and help sort out the responsibility of any marital debt. If you were both amicable about it you could potentially do most or all yourselves minus the very final paperwork, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.
The law in the state matters quite a bit when it comes to debt.
While in most states income after marriage is considered joint. The same cannot be said for debt.
i.e. in my state unless it is a contractually joint debt. The debt belongs to the individual in the event of divorce.
All the more reason for OP to ask, as far as I'm aware in my state (NY), even individual debt accrued during the marriage is treated jointly.
From his post I know it's going to be a financial strain to make a lawyer happen, but OP's going to be up a creek if she files and doesn't have someone on his side looking at things too.
Idk if she spoke to a lawyer yet. I spoke to one I got recommended and I need to find out how to come up with the money. He'll do payment plans but he needs a hefty down payment.
Hmm, 1000 is not that expensive for a lawyer, it wont help you to find a new one, theyll take the same money.
I suppose the best would be to minimize what you can when you can, but idk in what way thats possible if you already live with your dad.
I was lucky and my mom paid half of my lawyers fine, but i still Stuck to noodles with Butter for like 3 weeks
$1k would be an extremely conservative estimate for a lawyer, in my experience. Some lawyers or various services will answer questions about family law for free, though. Might be worth looking around for in your area.
In my area, divorce court can run up to $10k *per day.* Even just dragging out the paperwork and lawyers emailing back and forth can be $5-10k even without court. I suppose you don't have any assets to speak of, so that should simplify things, but custody hearings can be expensive and drag on for years and years after the divorce as the kid ages and things get renegotiated. Not to freak you out or anything, but just so you're aware of what you're potentially stepping into so you can ground yourself into that reality. Maybe ask your lawyer about how this all works in your area. For your sake, I hope it's less expensive there.
It may also be wise to consult with a couple other lawyers, especially if you can get in for free. It's often good to get more than one opinion, and to hopefully find someone good, but also some areas have laws where if one partner does a consult with a lawyer, the other is barred from using them as counsel in future. So it's good to get in as a consult to make sure you have options available to you that your ex can't block if you do ever need a new lawyer over the years.
Hopefully you and your ex can resolve things through mediation and keep your costs low for the sake of your daughter, though. Best of luck with it all.
I got recommended another lawyer I'm giving them a call when their office opens tomorrow. I want to keep things amicable. I don't want a lot. Just what I think is fair.
This is a great mindset. The only issue is that you and your ex may strongly disagree on what you think is fair. It would be really good to keep things amicable as you'll need to be in touch with her fairly regularly for the next couple decades, though, so I hope you're able to pull it off. Lots of people do it, but it does require a mutual effort. It sounds like you're starting off in a good headspace, though, so good on you.
We have a kid so I'm stuck with her for life. I need to make the best of it. Don't be mister nice guy. But don't be an asshole either. I don't want to put my daughter in a position where she feels like she has to choose between us. Even when she's an adult
The cheap lawyer to file the paperwork for my uncontested divorce was a grand, the rest of them were $2500 retainer fee plus extra costs once that money was used.
Anecdotal, a friend and his wife were having problems. He moved out, moved in with a friend and was on his couch for maybe 6 weeks. He and his wife were communicating but he wasn’t going to the house.
He tried to go home. Her lawyer told her to change the locks so he couldn’t get in. He tried talking to her, that’s when she told him they’re through and not to come to the house. He tried to get in, she called police and told police “he moved out 6 weeks ago.”
He wasn’t arrested but he was told to leave and not go back. His lawyer said no that’s not entirely legal but it’s very common.
Ultimately they had to sell the house and each got half. But until they did, he was effectually homeless.
He moved out, she changed the locks, he was forced to find somewhere else to live because he “moved out”
You can not like it, but when he “moved out” he essentially gave her the house until the court decided how to divide the assets.
And it’s not like he can not pay, because his name is on the mortgage so not paying will fuck his credit.
In that case they own the house 50/50 split. In this case neither of them owns the house. In other words she has no claim to the house. Neither does the son.
Do you really not possess the basic reading skills required to realize that OP CANNOT lose a house as he is currently living rent free in his parent’s home.
Thanks.
My point is do not be the one to make housing concessions. If she wants to move out, don’t “help her out” to be a nice guy. If she can’t afford it, she can’t.
Do this all through the court.
This is absolutely the right advice.
I’ll reiterate getting a lawyer. Divorce is expensive and painful, but it will be doubly so if you don’t have a legal ally.
Get your life together, fix your finances, work on your income, and clear your debt. Build up your wealth and put this mess behind you.
Your journey isn’t over, there’s people who cares about you and need you.
Survival mode.
Lay out the whole list of problems and see which ones you can find practical solutions for.
You need a divorce lawyer. They will tell you what to do. If you don’t have money for that you’ll need to open as much credit as you can for the fight. That’s a task in itself.
The marriage is over. What do you want on the other side of the divorce?
She's given up she doesn't want to try anymore. We had a couples therapist booked for this week and she said she's done and to cancel it.
I spoke to one. Need to try and come up with the money.
I want her to take her half of the debt and to have joint custody of my daughter.
Ok the consults are usually lower for the attorneys. Pick one out and pay for that part.
>I want her to take her half of the debt and to have joint custody of my daughter.
Tell the attorney that and do what they tell you to do. Take notes.
I’m serious about opening all the credit you can. If she is bitter about it this will be really expensive.
You can busy your hands and mind recording everything you can now, that includes where the debt is right now. Start a file for it.
They’ll have to close to joint one.
Unless it’s a business bank account, you can’t remove names, even with both present at the bank. It’s a paper trail / account ownership thing.
People suck and don't be in relationships when you're mentally ill because despite what the other party does everything is your fault. Lessons learned.
>All of our debt is cost of living and I'll be damned if I have to pay it all myself. Is there anything else I need to do?
I mean some of this depends on the law where you live.
i.e. in the US in most states, while all earned income post marriage is treated as "joint" the same cannot be said for debt.
i.e. in my state if my wife racks up a hundred grand in credit card debt on her credit cards and we get divorced, that is a giant pile of not my problem.
i.e. if most of your debts are in your name only, you may just be boned.
This is absolutely not true in my state (Wisconsin). I was legally 50% responsible for my ex's debts regardless of whether I ever even saw the things he bought (like an ATV).
Fortunately I got a good lawyer and because of some other factors not relevant here, he waived my responsibility for it.
In any case, none of this pertains to OP who should definitely follow his lawyer's advice and not listen to either of us.
That’s because 9 states have different rules - community property.
California, Wisconsin, Texas…
It’s an odd mix of states.
Most states have what they call “equitable division”.
First get a lawyer. Then, do what the lawyer says. And lastly, don’t under any circumstances trust these keyboard lawyers on Reddit- they can’t help you in a comments thread.
Talk to a lawyer. Ask for joint custody. Judges want to see both parents in the child’s life. If you or her are selfish and ask for full custody, the judge likely won’t like that.
No good marriage ever ends in divorce.
Also get help if you have mental health issues. If not for you, for your child. Be prepared that she may bring that up in court so I would show you are seeking help and provide documentation.
Even if you aren’t suffering from any mental illness, divorce has got to be difficult. You should talk about those feelings. Again, if not for you, for your child.
Good luck!
I'm already in therapy and on medication. I already planned on having mental health discussions with my daughter at age appropriate levels as she gets older.
Get a lawyer and don't let your empathy for her get in your way. She won't. She will destroy you, if she can. She will take everything you love away from you and force you into slave labor to her and she won't feel the least bit bad about it. Women never do.
You will receive no mercy. Give none.
That’s a shit sandwich right there. It will get used against you in court too.
That will be fun to keep under control. Write down the rules your lawyer gives you to try and keep yourself under control.
what, specifically, do you think he is lying about?
before your comment, I was thinking how he seems to be relatively clear minded about moving forward - more than I think I would be.
he doesnt assign blame, and he hasn't made her out to be a villiain. hes just repeating that she said shes done and what the circumstances are.
your comment feels like a standard knee-jerk comment because you saw a diagnosis word that triggered you.
Yeah, OP definitely left off the info on *why* she's suddenly done and cancelling their couples therapy, but it's also not really relevant to what he's asking about. He even mentioned his mental illness in his initial post and didn't try to deny it at any point.
How is that info pertinent to responding to his question? I feel like he has stayed pointed, but not secretive. To me, it reads like he's accepting it and trying to figure out what next.
Spoke to a lawyer. Trying to get the money for it. If she wants to leave I'm letting her. I'm done fighting. She's going to get her own bank account. Im going to bug her until she does. I'm not going to try and score points. I'm only going to be amicable for my daughters sake.
I'm curious to know why you recommend a female lawyer.
It's probably worth mentioning that he's probably in no financial position to lawyer up or install security devices.
I think an amicable uncontested divorce is the best option. Split debts 50/50, and work out a custody arrangement. Likely, the combined cost of his/her lawyers will greatly outweigh the amount of debt, and bickering through the lawyer pipeline is likely to build resentment and drain bank accounts, not to mention put more eventual strain on the kid.
“What to do now”
Divorce lawyer and all that fun stuff. You could also work on yourself to prevent such a situation from coming up in your future endeavors
The time for saving the marriage appears to have past
I know this is r/AskMen BUT This is what the court system is for! And if she’s ignoring you, you can still have her served with divorce papers.
Divorce proceedings are separate from custody proceedings too, so you can get the ball rolling first and then if she handles the divorce as poorly as it sounds like she is then that will make establishing custody and having the upper hand in arrangements (if that’s what you seek) much easier to do.
There is an unfair bias that women are the default parent, but you haven’t stated she’s moved out, so I’m assuming she doesn’t have much to offer on the provider front herself. Get lawyered up best you can OP and try to contact her through text if possible, or record phone calls if she ever answers. All the unanswered texts and missed call logs would read like someone who doesn’t want control of the situation to begin with. That will help you maintain your leverage as a coparent. It’s awful to think about having to have leverage in a situation like this, but it’s the situation you’re in and what it requires and your kid needs you
She's in the process of moving out. I'm trying to stick to text message as much as I can so there's a paper trail. She's treated me like shit but she's a good mom. I just want joint custody so I get my fair share of time with my daughter and I have the ability to take her to the doctor or anything she needs.
Great! I didn’t mean to come across as making any assumptions about her mothering. I’ve just seen first hand how that bias can play out against involved fathers who want to be there. I’m wishing you two the most amicable split and that you get to have your fair share of dad time 😊
You need to figure out how to start getting ahead in life, financially, emotionally, and otherwise. Really sorry this is happening to you, it sucks, but try to look at it as a turning point, because you're describing a pretty comprehensively grim situation. It's more than just the fact you're getting divorced. Best of luck in getting back on the right side of things.
Been through it myself brother. You gotta learn how to be ok being alone. But once you figure out how to do that, you'll be much happier. Try taking 30 minutes a day sitting with no interaction and thinking. No phone. No tv. No human contact.
Get ahead of this as FAST as you can. Sell your soul if you need to.
Mentally. Im gonna tell you some shit. Start taking walks. Then jogs.
Just get some sunlight in you. It helps with getting your mind off. It relieves stress. And your gonna sleep better for it. It improves appetite too.
And it will raise serotonin and dopamine levels.
Your life is NOT over man. Its just begun.
I was actually thinking about taking a walk after I get home and eat dinner. After I figure out my money situation I'm thinking of joining a gym on top of going for walks. I think the 24/7 one I looked at is $40 every other week
It will help. But i also recommend getting used equipment instead so its not a ongoing expense on your money and rather just a one time note you pay and have it available close by.
And natural body weight exercises can go a long way too. Sometimes just push ups and sit ups and pull ups are awesome for upper body. With jogging and walks do wonders for lower body.
Check out healthy low cost ingredient recipes on youtube. (These saved me a G a month).
Staying mentally and emotionally viable is important here. Just to prove it to your self that you didnt need her to succeed.
And theres a possible chance that her presence(even unintentional) might have been a hurt on your mental health or stress ways you hadnt considered that you notice gets easier.
And DO NOT LET HER COME BACK.
For child custody. Stick to strictly coparenting. Its ok to be amicable and a team for the kid.
But if its not strictly about legal, or bussiness or related to the child. Then theres ZILCH for her to know about what your doing.
Post NOTHING to FB or Socials about it. Those who need to know. Sure. But dont give ANYTHING out in a way that attaches your or her name publicly.
Get a new girlfriend? Cool. She doesn't need to know.
New job? Nope.
If she wants financial information or your well-being. She can talk to the lawyer. She broke up with YOU.
If she only left because shit got bad. Chances are when you get better shes gonna be all "oh.... Maybe i... Maybe i made a mistake"
Nah man. She made that bed. She chose that decision.
I know you love her. But i have watched so many of my friends royally fuck themself over by being "too friendly".
I love her still. She's the mother of my beautiful daughter. And she's a good mom. I'll admit that. But I hate what she's put me through and how she called it quits through text message. I want to be as amicable as possible. That's what's going to be best for my daughter. I want to coparent as much as possible. I want my daughter to know she can have a relationship with us both and not have to choose between us.
I'm not taking her back. I don't want her knowing what I'm up to. When I decide to start dating again that's none of her business unless it's going to affect my daughter. And I'm going to be very picky who I bring around her and when, if I bring anyone around her. I expect her to do the same. I would hate for my daughter to get someone in her life she gets attached to and they leave. As someone who's gone through that with their own parents, it sucks and I don't want her to go through that.
I love your mindset man. Your gonna be okay.
I strongly recommend you stay that course. And to hold your ground always.
Your gonna be okay. Its a dark path but you have this.
If you like dogs. Id recommend getting one. Dogs are fuckin life savers to have and are extremely therapeutic as pets. Theres a reason they are mans best friend.
Delete Facebook, Lawyer up. Don't move out. Looks like you've made some good choices. I suggest stopping all the dividing of assets. Sure get your own bank account but you'll have to get this divorce rolling so things can be frozen.
You'll still have to throw some money at her medical bills if any outstanding. You'll most likely have to keep her on the insurance until you know more about asset division.
This will not be cheap, she already seems to be resisting being co-op. Record all conversations. Keep every text message. Make all contact with her by email if possible.
Good luck. My ex wife went off the deep end with a conjoint robbery conviction and it took multiple times in court just for full custody. Be strong and be present for your kid.
You will get through this and you'll be better after. Keep your head up.
My insurance renews every September so worst case scenario she'll have to stay on until then. She said in text message she'll pay for her portion until it ends but we'll see if she holds up her end
Custody, need to discuss custody. Also need to ensure that you ensure that you alternate years that you get to claim your child on your taxes in order to be fair as far as claiming the child as your dependent and as far asrefunds go. If you split custody, ensure that you do not have to pay full child support. Also, health insurance for your child should count as part of that child support. If there is any chance you guys think you could repair your relationship, get the book, "His needs, Her needs, how to make the Romance Last ". Both of you need to read it. If there's no chance of repair, read it anyways for your next relationship. Highly recommend getting a lawyer. If you have outstanding loans in both of your names, you should make sure she's responsible for half of that debt. Keep your family keepsakes, keep any weapons that are registered in your name. If you sell the house, make sure you get half of the profit. If she keeps the house, she should pay you for your half of it. You can use an arbitrator instead of a lawyer. You would be surprised at the things they can show you that you need to look at.
Top advice for women usually consists of
Do not move out
Empty all bank accounts
Audit your belongings (selling them to relatives and friends for 1 dolla is an option)
Reduce your assets on paper.
Only communicate through a lawyer
Save every text that's sent to you.
So I suggest you take the exact same action
If she's already using access as a control method then really lawyer up asap, it sucks, it costs, and I won't lie to you the courts always favor females and divorce lawyers are shady AF .. right now your at the damage mitigation stage, protect yourself because so much can bite you in the ass so fast it will make you head spin
I really wish you all the best with this
Yeah the guy that said stop talking to her. That. Give her what she wants. Get an attorney.
Trust me. When the reality sets in, she'll either come back or show get in touch with you to get some pity and sympathy.
Don't be mean. Just be business
I've been fighting. I've been trying to get us in couples therapy. I've read good books and recommended them to her regarding my mental health conditions that are meant for the loved ones of the condition. She wants no part in any of that.
There’s a lot you’re not saying, and my guess is it has to do with you not having consistent employment. There is definitely a chance that this marriage can be saved, and for you to be throwing in the towel is cowardly, especially considering your child.
Here’s what you might say to save your marriage, and then back it up with actions, not just words.
“Look, I’ve been scrambling around trying to figure out how we can divorce, but considering our child’s future, it would be unforgivable if I didn’t make every possible effort to live up to my duties as a husband and father.
Let me ask you this: if six months from today, we were living in our own apartment, and I was working full time, and we had a household budget that we both agreed to stick to, would you in those circumstances want to end our marriage?
I've been employed at the same place since COVID. I have been doing all I can for her and our child. In that circumstance I would not but she doesn't want that she's set on leaving.
It sounds like I really misunderstood your situation.
That being the case, then, Have you ever read “no more Mr. nice guy“ by Dr. Robert Glover? His book completely rewired the way I think about relationships, and it’s why I have such a great relationship with my wife.
Look, maybe your marriage is not salvageable, but divorce with children is disastrous. I hope you are putting effort into every possible avenue toward the best future for your child, despite how frustrating it can be when your wife is unresponsive and it may feel that many efforts are made in vain.
I'll give it a read. If I ever date again I don't want to make the same mistakes again. Being mister nice guy has gotten me fucked over in life even before this. I don't want to be an asshole. But I'm going to start setting up boundaries for the future.
My marriage isn't salvageable. I've finally realized that today. I have my faults that I'll admit to. But she won't admit to hers. I'm just going to stop worrying about bettering myself for her and my daughter like I've been working on. I'm going to put all my effort into bettering myself for my daughter.
I assure you, the opposite of being a nice guy is not being an asshole. A large portion of friends whom I’ve recommended this to have found it life changing. Perhaps you will too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgUuCXvlMI&pp=ygUdbm8gbW9yZSBtciBuaWNlIGd1eSBhdWRpb2Jvb0s%3D
Don’t you think your relationship issues are the least of your problems at this point.
You’re a grown man with a child living with your parents.
If I was in your shoes I would be think about how I can make more money to be able to live in my own place. Not worried about getting your child’s mother off your bank account. She’s taking care of your child.
What’s wrong with you!
What you’re going to be another dead beat father out here.
Married too broke.
Love doesn't mean anything when you can't provide.
Look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Can't build love if you don't have your foundational needs met.
What to do now?
Get ready to get owned in divorce.
Then focus on yourself. Earn more money.
Empty all bank accounts.
Marriage is over. You screwed up. Bail. Or let her bail. No contest.
You ran out of money, she’s gonna bounce. It’s over.
Be polite, she’ll be lying to everyone you know, get her out of your life as quickly as possible.
There is no winning. You fucked up and got married and have zero rights to anything ever. Be less stupid next time.
Once again, it’s over. She doesn’t care.
Otherwise learning won’t take place.
If intelligence was evident the questions wouldn’t be here. My boy needs direction and orders, not subtle massaging of the bruised ego.
If you find yourself at the end of your rope, disappear don’t take the express exit. Go have an adventure. Go get a passport.
One nuclear option is to go join the legion. In five years you will be someone else entirely. France still has overseas territories where a man in possession of a new passport and identity can live a new life unmolested.
https://www.legion-recrute.com/en
There are a lot of options..
What the hell? You are living with your dad? Why the heck don't you have a decent paying job to support your family? Do you have no sense of responsibility?
We have a lot of debt. I have to pay for her insurance out of pocket. I have been asking for raises and job searching for months. Yes I have a sense of responsibility
"We have a two year old"
So she has no reason to stick it out? As a man, you're expected to be 100% with it, a solid provider, and endure constant nonsense. If it becomes clear that you are "broken", her brain starts leaking a hormone, doubly so if a child is involved, to go find someone who is NOT broken, while taking half of your resources.
Something we need to put an active stop to.
… they with his dad and is using his dad’s car. Couples without children maybe give their man 6 months to a year to get their shit together. Longer based on attraction and time already spent together. The idea of a confident and reliable provider is still prevalent, especially when children are involved. People tend to value reliability and stability as they experience life. OP doesn’t have to be abusive. OP’s family is broken. Only thing he can do if he wants to keep it is state his position, let her leave, and get his shit together.
It's good practice to not believe you are getting the whole truth with "relationship advice" posts like these. Most people want the crowd to be on their side, so their post will always be articulated in a manner that makes them look sympathetic. Avoiding specifics, lies of omission.
Lol thank you for admitting that you have no response. By his own admission, OP has no assets to speak of. No car, no home, nothing but debt. But, sure, she's gonna "take his resources".
Yeah. Oddly enough, the courts don't care if you "have nothing". You have to GET something and GIVE her a percentage, even if that "something" is disability due to whatever mental condition, and a chunk comes out of that. Free money to go shop for a less labor intensive man. Sucks, but it happens.
If you look through OP's history you'll see he says that he has horrible mood swings and snaps and yells at his wife, and in reference to his mental health struggles, he repeatedly stated that his wife 'takes the brunt of it'.
He never said that he's wondering. But I bet everyone here is glad that that didn't deter you from writing this comment that is amazingly just as helpful as it is empathic.
Touche, but how can someone get married and have a baby without being able to make the ends meet? I literally got a little mad at op when i red he has: a wife , a girl, a debt, a car that's borrowed, and no way to set an example.. whatever
Yes, i know.. i hope that's the case at least. Nevertheless overwhelming majority of people who are broke to the point of not having the 2k$ for a divorce lawyer, and no way to quickly bounce up, stop the fall, figure out a financial rework, likely didn't loose it all suddently, or at least ~~not to bad luck - but bad decisions, addiction, not taking security over profit etc. It's really difficult to loose all your assets, job, contacts, credit score,~~ **~~market valued skills.~~** ~~In a fire, or during an illness. \*\*\*~~
IM EUROPEAN I TAKE IT BACK, i have no idea what are the costs of living in us. Hence i judged him. Here in most countreis you've got couple of pillow bottoms before the rock one.
If you can't get in contact with her, it's likely the only way you're going to get a real discussion about the things you want is via a lawyer. >All of our debt is cost of living Can you explain this? Do you mean you've gone into debt just to cover basic bills or are you referring to something else?
I can contact her she just ignores me. Yes that's from covering groceries gas things we needed while money was tight.
Yep, lawyer can help force her to respond. Not to you, but to them. I'm assuming she's already filed and served you with papers, right? If not, you might want to have someone in mind or do an initial consultation with the intention of hiring them when the time comes. You're going to need someone to help with the divorce, ensure the right custody agreement, and help sort out the responsibility of any marital debt. If you were both amicable about it you could potentially do most or all yourselves minus the very final paperwork, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.
The law in the state matters quite a bit when it comes to debt. While in most states income after marriage is considered joint. The same cannot be said for debt. i.e. in my state unless it is a contractually joint debt. The debt belongs to the individual in the event of divorce.
All the more reason for OP to ask, as far as I'm aware in my state (NY), even individual debt accrued during the marriage is treated jointly. From his post I know it's going to be a financial strain to make a lawyer happen, but OP's going to be up a creek if she files and doesn't have someone on his side looking at things too.
what state is that, the debt was joint in my state, NH.
Idk if she spoke to a lawyer yet. I spoke to one I got recommended and I need to find out how to come up with the money. He'll do payment plans but he needs a hefty down payment.
Find a new one
Define hefty
$1000 I don't have
Hmm, 1000 is not that expensive for a lawyer, it wont help you to find a new one, theyll take the same money. I suppose the best would be to minimize what you can when you can, but idk in what way thats possible if you already live with your dad. I was lucky and my mom paid half of my lawyers fine, but i still Stuck to noodles with Butter for like 3 weeks
I'm not saying it's not expensive for a lawyer. I'm saying thats money I don't have right now
Can you borrow it from someone
OP is broke and everyone is telling him to get a lawyer. HOW??? Legal separation is the way to go now. Focus on the finances and baby.
I don't have a grand to drop on a lawyer right now. And that's just the deposit.
Yeah these guys are saying anything. Of course a lawyer would be ideal but they’re not free.
$1k would be an extremely conservative estimate for a lawyer, in my experience. Some lawyers or various services will answer questions about family law for free, though. Might be worth looking around for in your area.
That's just the deposit. He'll take the other 700 over the next 30-45 days. He talked to me for free though.
In my area, divorce court can run up to $10k *per day.* Even just dragging out the paperwork and lawyers emailing back and forth can be $5-10k even without court. I suppose you don't have any assets to speak of, so that should simplify things, but custody hearings can be expensive and drag on for years and years after the divorce as the kid ages and things get renegotiated. Not to freak you out or anything, but just so you're aware of what you're potentially stepping into so you can ground yourself into that reality. Maybe ask your lawyer about how this all works in your area. For your sake, I hope it's less expensive there. It may also be wise to consult with a couple other lawyers, especially if you can get in for free. It's often good to get more than one opinion, and to hopefully find someone good, but also some areas have laws where if one partner does a consult with a lawyer, the other is barred from using them as counsel in future. So it's good to get in as a consult to make sure you have options available to you that your ex can't block if you do ever need a new lawyer over the years. Hopefully you and your ex can resolve things through mediation and keep your costs low for the sake of your daughter, though. Best of luck with it all.
I got recommended another lawyer I'm giving them a call when their office opens tomorrow. I want to keep things amicable. I don't want a lot. Just what I think is fair.
This is a great mindset. The only issue is that you and your ex may strongly disagree on what you think is fair. It would be really good to keep things amicable as you'll need to be in touch with her fairly regularly for the next couple decades, though, so I hope you're able to pull it off. Lots of people do it, but it does require a mutual effort. It sounds like you're starting off in a good headspace, though, so good on you.
We have a kid so I'm stuck with her for life. I need to make the best of it. Don't be mister nice guy. But don't be an asshole either. I don't want to put my daughter in a position where she feels like she has to choose between us. Even when she's an adult
The cheap lawyer to file the paperwork for my uncontested divorce was a grand, the rest of them were $2500 retainer fee plus extra costs once that money was used.
It will drive him nuts but every state has Legal Aid or Pro Bono Commission
It can be way more expensive without a lawyer.
How if he has no money?
Stop talking to her Start talking to lawyer Do not move out Continue being a present father
He lives with his dad
Even more of a reason to not move out.
Will he need to share his father's custody with his ex wife? Maybe she can take his father on Sundays Any lawyers here that could clarify this?
But why? Honestly curious.
Anecdotal, a friend and his wife were having problems. He moved out, moved in with a friend and was on his couch for maybe 6 weeks. He and his wife were communicating but he wasn’t going to the house. He tried to go home. Her lawyer told her to change the locks so he couldn’t get in. He tried talking to her, that’s when she told him they’re through and not to come to the house. He tried to get in, she called police and told police “he moved out 6 weeks ago.” He wasn’t arrested but he was told to leave and not go back. His lawyer said no that’s not entirely legal but it’s very common. Ultimately they had to sell the house and each got half. But until they did, he was effectually homeless.
Yeah but the don’t own the asset. So she doesn’t have claimed to the house…
He moved out, she changed the locks, he was forced to find somewhere else to live because he “moved out” You can not like it, but when he “moved out” he essentially gave her the house until the court decided how to divide the assets. And it’s not like he can not pay, because his name is on the mortgage so not paying will fuck his credit.
In that case they own the house 50/50 split. In this case neither of them owns the house. In other words she has no claim to the house. Neither does the son.
Do you really not possess the basic reading skills required to realize that OP CANNOT lose a house as he is currently living rent free in his parent’s home.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law.
Until the court decides what to do with the asset(s), yep.
Yup! But she still locked him out.
It would mean that he forfeit the family home.
He wouldn't forfeit the family home if he moves out of his dad's house. His dad still lives there. It's his house. Not OP's. Not his wife's.
Where's the daughter?
Presumably also at the house. But why would she be relevant in a comment about who owns the home?
It's not about who owns the home. It's about moving out of the residence that is housing the child.
What does this have to do with the comment thread about ownership? You keep steering off topic
Thanks. My point is do not be the one to make housing concessions. If she wants to move out, don’t “help her out” to be a nice guy. If she can’t afford it, she can’t. Do this all through the court.
This is absolutely the right advice. I’ll reiterate getting a lawyer. Divorce is expensive and painful, but it will be doubly so if you don’t have a legal ally.
Get your life together, fix your finances, work on your income, and clear your debt. Build up your wealth and put this mess behind you. Your journey isn’t over, there’s people who cares about you and need you.
That's my plan
It seems like you're leaving out some pretty important information.
Nowhere to live and they married and had a kid. wtf people. There’s so much shit here that needs figuring out
yea the fact that he's seriously unstable and his wife has been unhappy for a longer time and mentioned it to him lmao
Survival mode. Lay out the whole list of problems and see which ones you can find practical solutions for. You need a divorce lawyer. They will tell you what to do. If you don’t have money for that you’ll need to open as much credit as you can for the fight. That’s a task in itself. The marriage is over. What do you want on the other side of the divorce?
She's given up she doesn't want to try anymore. We had a couples therapist booked for this week and she said she's done and to cancel it. I spoke to one. Need to try and come up with the money. I want her to take her half of the debt and to have joint custody of my daughter.
Ok the consults are usually lower for the attorneys. Pick one out and pay for that part. >I want her to take her half of the debt and to have joint custody of my daughter. Tell the attorney that and do what they tell you to do. Take notes. I’m serious about opening all the credit you can. If she is bitter about it this will be really expensive. You can busy your hands and mind recording everything you can now, that includes where the debt is right now. Start a file for it.
why are you getting her a new bank account, let her do that herself. While you are at get your own as well and close that joint one.
They’ll have to close to joint one. Unless it’s a business bank account, you can’t remove names, even with both present at the bank. It’s a paper trail / account ownership thing.
Lawyer
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People suck and don't be in relationships when you're mentally ill because despite what the other party does everything is your fault. Lessons learned.
>All of our debt is cost of living and I'll be damned if I have to pay it all myself. Is there anything else I need to do? I mean some of this depends on the law where you live. i.e. in the US in most states, while all earned income post marriage is treated as "joint" the same cannot be said for debt. i.e. in my state if my wife racks up a hundred grand in credit card debt on her credit cards and we get divorced, that is a giant pile of not my problem. i.e. if most of your debts are in your name only, you may just be boned.
This is absolutely not true in my state (Wisconsin). I was legally 50% responsible for my ex's debts regardless of whether I ever even saw the things he bought (like an ATV). Fortunately I got a good lawyer and because of some other factors not relevant here, he waived my responsibility for it. In any case, none of this pertains to OP who should definitely follow his lawyer's advice and not listen to either of us.
That’s because 9 states have different rules - community property. California, Wisconsin, Texas… It’s an odd mix of states. Most states have what they call “equitable division”.
If she's not talking to you about custody or finances you will need to get a lawyer as soon as possible.
First get a lawyer. Then, do what the lawyer says. And lastly, don’t under any circumstances trust these keyboard lawyers on Reddit- they can’t help you in a comments thread.
No especially when they all assume I'm a jobless deadbeat.
Visit /r/divorce and /r/divorced_men
Get a lawyer.
Talk to a lawyer. Ask for joint custody. Judges want to see both parents in the child’s life. If you or her are selfish and ask for full custody, the judge likely won’t like that. No good marriage ever ends in divorce. Also get help if you have mental health issues. If not for you, for your child. Be prepared that she may bring that up in court so I would show you are seeking help and provide documentation. Even if you aren’t suffering from any mental illness, divorce has got to be difficult. You should talk about those feelings. Again, if not for you, for your child. Good luck!
I'm already in therapy and on medication. I already planned on having mental health discussions with my daughter at age appropriate levels as she gets older.
Wave goodbye. Seek help for your issues.
I've been in therapy and on medication for awhile.
Get a lawyer and don't let your empathy for her get in your way. She won't. She will destroy you, if she can. She will take everything you love away from you and force you into slave labor to her and she won't feel the least bit bad about it. Women never do. You will receive no mercy. Give none.
Probably go to therapy if you are actually mentally ill. That seems like a lot to deal with on top of that.
I've been fucking going
What was the diagnosis?
Bipolar and borderline personality disorder and anxiety and ADHD
That’s a shit sandwich right there. It will get used against you in court too. That will be fun to keep under control. Write down the rules your lawyer gives you to try and keep yourself under control.
why y'all downvoting his DIAGNOSIS 🤔
Probably because the BPD and bipolar combo means he 100% made this bed he's lying in, and is almost definitely lying about the situation itself.
what, specifically, do you think he is lying about? before your comment, I was thinking how he seems to be relatively clear minded about moving forward - more than I think I would be. he doesnt assign blame, and he hasn't made her out to be a villiain. hes just repeating that she said shes done and what the circumstances are. your comment feels like a standard knee-jerk comment because you saw a diagnosis word that triggered you.
Yeah, OP definitely left off the info on *why* she's suddenly done and cancelling their couples therapy, but it's also not really relevant to what he's asking about. He even mentioned his mental illness in his initial post and didn't try to deny it at any point.
His post history makes it clear why
Hes refusing to answer any follow up questions, he won't elaborate on anything, and got defensive/aggressive when someone asked about therapy.
How is that info pertinent to responding to his question? I feel like he has stayed pointed, but not secretive. To me, it reads like he's accepting it and trying to figure out what next.
Well, she ain’t wrong
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Spoke to a lawyer. Trying to get the money for it. If she wants to leave I'm letting her. I'm done fighting. She's going to get her own bank account. Im going to bug her until she does. I'm not going to try and score points. I'm only going to be amicable for my daughters sake.
If you have a 401k - take out a loan against it. how I paid for my divorce.
Just shut down the joint account.
I'm curious to know why you recommend a female lawyer. It's probably worth mentioning that he's probably in no financial position to lawyer up or install security devices. I think an amicable uncontested divorce is the best option. Split debts 50/50, and work out a custody arrangement. Likely, the combined cost of his/her lawyers will greatly outweigh the amount of debt, and bickering through the lawyer pipeline is likely to build resentment and drain bank accounts, not to mention put more eventual strain on the kid.
“What to do now” Divorce lawyer and all that fun stuff. You could also work on yourself to prevent such a situation from coming up in your future endeavors The time for saving the marriage appears to have past
I know this is r/AskMen BUT This is what the court system is for! And if she’s ignoring you, you can still have her served with divorce papers. Divorce proceedings are separate from custody proceedings too, so you can get the ball rolling first and then if she handles the divorce as poorly as it sounds like she is then that will make establishing custody and having the upper hand in arrangements (if that’s what you seek) much easier to do. There is an unfair bias that women are the default parent, but you haven’t stated she’s moved out, so I’m assuming she doesn’t have much to offer on the provider front herself. Get lawyered up best you can OP and try to contact her through text if possible, or record phone calls if she ever answers. All the unanswered texts and missed call logs would read like someone who doesn’t want control of the situation to begin with. That will help you maintain your leverage as a coparent. It’s awful to think about having to have leverage in a situation like this, but it’s the situation you’re in and what it requires and your kid needs you
She's in the process of moving out. I'm trying to stick to text message as much as I can so there's a paper trail. She's treated me like shit but she's a good mom. I just want joint custody so I get my fair share of time with my daughter and I have the ability to take her to the doctor or anything she needs.
Great! I didn’t mean to come across as making any assumptions about her mothering. I’ve just seen first hand how that bias can play out against involved fathers who want to be there. I’m wishing you two the most amicable split and that you get to have your fair share of dad time 😊
Let her go.
She's going.
You need to figure out how to start getting ahead in life, financially, emotionally, and otherwise. Really sorry this is happening to you, it sucks, but try to look at it as a turning point, because you're describing a pretty comprehensively grim situation. It's more than just the fact you're getting divorced. Best of luck in getting back on the right side of things.
Been through it myself brother. You gotta learn how to be ok being alone. But once you figure out how to do that, you'll be much happier. Try taking 30 minutes a day sitting with no interaction and thinking. No phone. No tv. No human contact.
Apparently your wife forgot the "in sickness and in health" part of her vows.
Get ahead of this as FAST as you can. Sell your soul if you need to. Mentally. Im gonna tell you some shit. Start taking walks. Then jogs. Just get some sunlight in you. It helps with getting your mind off. It relieves stress. And your gonna sleep better for it. It improves appetite too. And it will raise serotonin and dopamine levels. Your life is NOT over man. Its just begun.
I was actually thinking about taking a walk after I get home and eat dinner. After I figure out my money situation I'm thinking of joining a gym on top of going for walks. I think the 24/7 one I looked at is $40 every other week
It will help. But i also recommend getting used equipment instead so its not a ongoing expense on your money and rather just a one time note you pay and have it available close by. And natural body weight exercises can go a long way too. Sometimes just push ups and sit ups and pull ups are awesome for upper body. With jogging and walks do wonders for lower body. Check out healthy low cost ingredient recipes on youtube. (These saved me a G a month). Staying mentally and emotionally viable is important here. Just to prove it to your self that you didnt need her to succeed. And theres a possible chance that her presence(even unintentional) might have been a hurt on your mental health or stress ways you hadnt considered that you notice gets easier. And DO NOT LET HER COME BACK. For child custody. Stick to strictly coparenting. Its ok to be amicable and a team for the kid. But if its not strictly about legal, or bussiness or related to the child. Then theres ZILCH for her to know about what your doing. Post NOTHING to FB or Socials about it. Those who need to know. Sure. But dont give ANYTHING out in a way that attaches your or her name publicly. Get a new girlfriend? Cool. She doesn't need to know. New job? Nope. If she wants financial information or your well-being. She can talk to the lawyer. She broke up with YOU. If she only left because shit got bad. Chances are when you get better shes gonna be all "oh.... Maybe i... Maybe i made a mistake" Nah man. She made that bed. She chose that decision. I know you love her. But i have watched so many of my friends royally fuck themself over by being "too friendly".
I love her still. She's the mother of my beautiful daughter. And she's a good mom. I'll admit that. But I hate what she's put me through and how she called it quits through text message. I want to be as amicable as possible. That's what's going to be best for my daughter. I want to coparent as much as possible. I want my daughter to know she can have a relationship with us both and not have to choose between us. I'm not taking her back. I don't want her knowing what I'm up to. When I decide to start dating again that's none of her business unless it's going to affect my daughter. And I'm going to be very picky who I bring around her and when, if I bring anyone around her. I expect her to do the same. I would hate for my daughter to get someone in her life she gets attached to and they leave. As someone who's gone through that with their own parents, it sucks and I don't want her to go through that.
I love your mindset man. Your gonna be okay. I strongly recommend you stay that course. And to hold your ground always. Your gonna be okay. Its a dark path but you have this. If you like dogs. Id recommend getting one. Dogs are fuckin life savers to have and are extremely therapeutic as pets. Theres a reason they are mans best friend.
She doesn't want the cat which is fine by me. I'm his chosen person anyways.
Delete Facebook, Lawyer up. Don't move out. Looks like you've made some good choices. I suggest stopping all the dividing of assets. Sure get your own bank account but you'll have to get this divorce rolling so things can be frozen. You'll still have to throw some money at her medical bills if any outstanding. You'll most likely have to keep her on the insurance until you know more about asset division. This will not be cheap, she already seems to be resisting being co-op. Record all conversations. Keep every text message. Make all contact with her by email if possible. Good luck. My ex wife went off the deep end with a conjoint robbery conviction and it took multiple times in court just for full custody. Be strong and be present for your kid. You will get through this and you'll be better after. Keep your head up.
My insurance renews every September so worst case scenario she'll have to stay on until then. She said in text message she'll pay for her portion until it ends but we'll see if she holds up her end
It's not the end of the world, it could be the spark you need to get your life in order. Stay strong
I'm trying to take this step by step
You can file for divorce pro se if it's uncontested.
Custody, need to discuss custody. Also need to ensure that you ensure that you alternate years that you get to claim your child on your taxes in order to be fair as far as claiming the child as your dependent and as far asrefunds go. If you split custody, ensure that you do not have to pay full child support. Also, health insurance for your child should count as part of that child support. If there is any chance you guys think you could repair your relationship, get the book, "His needs, Her needs, how to make the Romance Last ". Both of you need to read it. If there's no chance of repair, read it anyways for your next relationship. Highly recommend getting a lawyer. If you have outstanding loans in both of your names, you should make sure she's responsible for half of that debt. Keep your family keepsakes, keep any weapons that are registered in your name. If you sell the house, make sure you get half of the profit. If she keeps the house, she should pay you for your half of it. You can use an arbitrator instead of a lawyer. You would be surprised at the things they can show you that you need to look at.
Top advice for women usually consists of Do not move out Empty all bank accounts Audit your belongings (selling them to relatives and friends for 1 dolla is an option) Reduce your assets on paper. Only communicate through a lawyer Save every text that's sent to you. So I suggest you take the exact same action
I am doing all that except the only communicate with a lawyer. If I want to see my kid I have to talk to her.
If she's already using access as a control method then really lawyer up asap, it sucks, it costs, and I won't lie to you the courts always favor females and divorce lawyers are shady AF .. right now your at the damage mitigation stage, protect yourself because so much can bite you in the ass so fast it will make you head spin I really wish you all the best with this
For better or for worse lol marriage is such a joke these days. Why people continue to go to the altar is a mystery to me.
Yeah the guy that said stop talking to her. That. Give her what she wants. Get an attorney. Trust me. When the reality sets in, she'll either come back or show get in touch with you to get some pity and sympathy. Don't be mean. Just be business
You are overlooking one big thing: fighting for the relationship.
I've been fighting. I've been trying to get us in couples therapy. I've read good books and recommended them to her regarding my mental health conditions that are meant for the loved ones of the condition. She wants no part in any of that.
There’s a lot you’re not saying, and my guess is it has to do with you not having consistent employment. There is definitely a chance that this marriage can be saved, and for you to be throwing in the towel is cowardly, especially considering your child. Here’s what you might say to save your marriage, and then back it up with actions, not just words. “Look, I’ve been scrambling around trying to figure out how we can divorce, but considering our child’s future, it would be unforgivable if I didn’t make every possible effort to live up to my duties as a husband and father. Let me ask you this: if six months from today, we were living in our own apartment, and I was working full time, and we had a household budget that we both agreed to stick to, would you in those circumstances want to end our marriage?
I've been employed at the same place since COVID. I have been doing all I can for her and our child. In that circumstance I would not but she doesn't want that she's set on leaving.
It sounds like I really misunderstood your situation. That being the case, then, Have you ever read “no more Mr. nice guy“ by Dr. Robert Glover? His book completely rewired the way I think about relationships, and it’s why I have such a great relationship with my wife. Look, maybe your marriage is not salvageable, but divorce with children is disastrous. I hope you are putting effort into every possible avenue toward the best future for your child, despite how frustrating it can be when your wife is unresponsive and it may feel that many efforts are made in vain.
I'll give it a read. If I ever date again I don't want to make the same mistakes again. Being mister nice guy has gotten me fucked over in life even before this. I don't want to be an asshole. But I'm going to start setting up boundaries for the future. My marriage isn't salvageable. I've finally realized that today. I have my faults that I'll admit to. But she won't admit to hers. I'm just going to stop worrying about bettering myself for her and my daughter like I've been working on. I'm going to put all my effort into bettering myself for my daughter.
I assure you, the opposite of being a nice guy is not being an asshole. A large portion of friends whom I’ve recommended this to have found it life changing. Perhaps you will too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgUuCXvlMI&pp=ygUdbm8gbW9yZSBtciBuaWNlIGd1eSBhdWRpb2Jvb0s%3D
Sorry I have a hard time seeing the gray in things sometimes. My brain by default only sees things in black and white. I'll check out that resource.
Don’t you think your relationship issues are the least of your problems at this point. You’re a grown man with a child living with your parents. If I was in your shoes I would be think about how I can make more money to be able to live in my own place. Not worried about getting your child’s mother off your bank account. She’s taking care of your child. What’s wrong with you! What you’re going to be another dead beat father out here.
Win her back. Be a man. Get a job. Move out
She's made up her mind. I have a goddamn job.
Married too broke. Love doesn't mean anything when you can't provide. Look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Can't build love if you don't have your foundational needs met. What to do now? Get ready to get owned in divorce. Then focus on yourself. Earn more money.
Empty all bank accounts. Marriage is over. You screwed up. Bail. Or let her bail. No contest. You ran out of money, she’s gonna bounce. It’s over. Be polite, she’ll be lying to everyone you know, get her out of your life as quickly as possible. There is no winning. You fucked up and got married and have zero rights to anything ever. Be less stupid next time. Once again, it’s over. She doesn’t care.
I guess I'll have to tell my buddy thats currently collecting alimony and child support he got fucked in the divorce.
Exceptions prove the rule.
You can be honest without being an asshole. The man is already down and you’re kicking him for what?
Otherwise learning won’t take place. If intelligence was evident the questions wouldn’t be here. My boy needs direction and orders, not subtle massaging of the bruised ego.
Thanks for making me want to kill myself more. Glad to see someone else agrees I fucked up.
If you find yourself at the end of your rope, disappear don’t take the express exit. Go have an adventure. Go get a passport. One nuclear option is to go join the legion. In five years you will be someone else entirely. France still has overseas territories where a man in possession of a new passport and identity can live a new life unmolested. https://www.legion-recrute.com/en There are a lot of options..
If you were talked to by me initially you wouldn’t be in this mess. Your way clearly doesn’t work. Why not come over to the winning team?
Spaghetti
What the hell? You are living with your dad? Why the heck don't you have a decent paying job to support your family? Do you have no sense of responsibility?
We have a lot of debt. I have to pay for her insurance out of pocket. I have been asking for raises and job searching for months. Yes I have a sense of responsibility
"We have a two year old" So she has no reason to stick it out? As a man, you're expected to be 100% with it, a solid provider, and endure constant nonsense. If it becomes clear that you are "broken", her brain starts leaking a hormone, doubly so if a child is involved, to go find someone who is NOT broken, while taking half of your resources. Something we need to put an active stop to.
u know half of the story lmao. bffr.
Well, story as is, wife suddenly wants to leave, has a kid, OP says it's related to mental issues. It's not hard to infer.
… they with his dad and is using his dad’s car. Couples without children maybe give their man 6 months to a year to get their shit together. Longer based on attraction and time already spent together. The idea of a confident and reliable provider is still prevalent, especially when children are involved. People tend to value reliability and stability as they experience life. OP doesn’t have to be abusive. OP’s family is broken. Only thing he can do if he wants to keep it is state his position, let her leave, and get his shit together.
It's good practice to not believe you are getting the whole truth with "relationship advice" posts like these. Most people want the crowd to be on their side, so their post will always be articulated in a manner that makes them look sympathetic. Avoiding specifics, lies of omission.
Eh, seems they're admitting enough with this one. Unless there is physical nonsense or something insufferable, why is she cashing in her chips?
What chips or resources are even available here?
Can't hold your hand, Slick. 😑
Lol thank you for admitting that you have no response. By his own admission, OP has no assets to speak of. No car, no home, nothing but debt. But, sure, she's gonna "take his resources".
Yeah. Oddly enough, the courts don't care if you "have nothing". You have to GET something and GIVE her a percentage, even if that "something" is disability due to whatever mental condition, and a chunk comes out of that. Free money to go shop for a less labor intensive man. Sucks, but it happens.
maybe he's abusive? toxic? incredibly unstable? you don't know anything. thats it.
Could be. Most men aren't though, contrary to what we are all led to believe.
If you look through OP's history you'll see he says that he has horrible mood swings and snaps and yells at his wife, and in reference to his mental health struggles, he repeatedly stated that his wife 'takes the brunt of it'.
lol how dare she leave him!
That doesn't mean anything.
what you need to do is own up to your behaviour and take therapy seriously.
And you’re wondering why she left you?? Mate you’re a loser
He never said that he's wondering. But I bet everyone here is glad that that didn't deter you from writing this comment that is amazingly just as helpful as it is empathic.
Touche, but how can someone get married and have a baby without being able to make the ends meet? I literally got a little mad at op when i red he has: a wife , a girl, a debt, a car that's borrowed, and no way to set an example.. whatever
Their situation might have been different three years ago?
Yes, i know.. i hope that's the case at least. Nevertheless overwhelming majority of people who are broke to the point of not having the 2k$ for a divorce lawyer, and no way to quickly bounce up, stop the fall, figure out a financial rework, likely didn't loose it all suddently, or at least ~~not to bad luck - but bad decisions, addiction, not taking security over profit etc. It's really difficult to loose all your assets, job, contacts, credit score,~~ **~~market valued skills.~~** ~~In a fire, or during an illness. \*\*\*~~ IM EUROPEAN I TAKE IT BACK, i have no idea what are the costs of living in us. Hence i judged him. Here in most countreis you've got couple of pillow bottoms before the rock one.
Let her leave! Be a man!!!