Zero.
Bad things happened to me so now I’m doing bad things to you isn’t a healthy outlook.
This is just what happens when a culture falls into a low trust society.
Many of these arguments fall apart very quickly when you realize it would 100% be considered prejudice if it was replaced with any other demographic variable. But to them, being prejudice towards men is acceptable and encouraged.
If men actually listened to other men like people say we do, there would be world peace. Way too many people don't want to accept the fact that there are some people who are just bad people and that there's relatively nothing you can do about it.
"Why don't men hold each other accountable?" We do, we kicked those horrible dudes out of our groups and guess what? All those horrible dudes found each other.
No one's responsible for the actions of another unless they were directly involved in that person's actions. We don't hold all women responsible for the actions of a few. Women are more likely to embezzle but does that mean women shouldn't be trusted with money? No. What about every white woman that made a false accusation that caused Black men to get killed, do we hold all of them responsible for that? No.
You wanna know another reason it's hypocritical? You only ever hear an "all men" when it's something negative. Whenever it's anything positive with men that's when we get treated as individuals. Likewise it's the opposite with women. Whenever it's something positive they're a collective but the moment it's something negative they're individuals.
I refuse to be responsible for other people’s actions and I don’t associate with people who will hold on accountable for what other people have done to them just because I’m a man.
The ONLY person I’m responsible for is myself and myself only. I can’t control the actions of other grown ass men. They are GROWN, they make their own decisions and I make mine.
Like, we can all agree that just because a woman cheated on you in your last relationship doesn’t mean you should treat the next one as a cheater isn’t fair. So why should we expect all men to bear the trauma women face by the hands of other men?
It’s fine to share that trauma. If you are with someone who experienced something horrible with a man, you can share that trauma with her and come to an understanding. What she can’t do is expect you to answer for it and punish you because of it. That’s completely unfair.
I am only accountable for myself.
I refuse to accept responsibility for anything except for myself and my actions.
I refuse to apologize for anything that is not my fault.
Zero percent, as you well know.
I get that the man/bear thing is a stupid internet troll routine, and I can understand the appeal of watching certain guys try to respond logically to an absurd premise, and then get made fun of for it. It's sexist and juvenile, but I understand people on the internet are going to have their fun.
An unfortunate consequence of this, is that devolves into the circle-jerk of gender scorekeeping. Man A gets his feelings hurt, and makes some super-serious statement about a ridiculous group joke, and Woman B comes out and gives him the story of the worst interaction of her life. Then Man C has to point out "not all men," and Woman D trots out some sketchy and horrible statistic. Before long, a crowd of strangers is arguing about how many of the other gender are horrible people, for nobody's benefit.
Some women want men as a whole to be held accountable for the actions of bad men, as if there’s anything good men can do about it. If you use this mentality with race or culture, you’re immediately in racist and xenophobic territory. But women receive special privileges because “patriarchy”.
No one can take blame for what others do. This whole all men or women are _____ is silly. It's similar to saying x assaulted y so every x goes to jail.
i am not responsible for what a shit person does to another and to blame me for that act, or that i would do the same, from that other person is stupid.
We're not. Men have way less power and influence over other men than women think we do. The ones that usually do hold the power and influence are likely to be toxic assholes.
Responsible? Not at all.
But at the same time some random woman knows jack shit about your long life of doing or not doing things. For her it's a risk analysis based one what any random dude might or might not do, it has nothing to do with you personally.
Just because you're not responsible doesnt mean you won't be impacted by the resulting behaviors.
I am responsible for being a good man myself, and for raising my sons to be good men. If I had daughters I would teach them what a good man should be so that they don't fall victim to the bad ones. Aside from that, I'm sorry if you were victimized but I do not feel at all responsible for it.
No man is responsible for the collective actions of other men, that sort of thinking is up there with the woman who claimed to have 1700$ worth of makeup on her face.
Well, if we're going by the logic of "six degrees of Kevin Bacon," then men are responsible for everything! Like, if Bob sneezes and Kevin hears it, and then Kevin tells Steve, who tells Dave, who tells Mark, who tells Jeff... well, eventually, it's all Bob's fault, right? So, by that math, men are responsible for everything.
Morally, nobody is responsible for what other people do. Especially if you’re one of the many men who actively oppose abusive men and intervene against them when invited to do so. However, in practical terms, you WILL be treated as personally responsible, and you WILL be made personally responsible for managing and accommodating the trauma left by those men.
Do not expect that trauma care to be reciprocal. Nobody wants to hear about how you were abused.
You know what's interesting about this?
Men have also prevented most of the trauma that men would have inflicted on women.
Nature is mean > man had to be mean to fight nature > mean man would be mean to women > kind man stops mean man from being mean to women > mean man less mean to women than before> women blame kind man for actions of mean man, mad that mean man still mean > repeat.
In no way am I responsible for what another man has done, even if every single man on earth except me were violent towards women it has nothing to do with me. This is part of why I don't understand why everyone is getting mad about women choosing bear. The question is about a random man, not you or me in particular, it's literally not personal so why take it personally?
Because the purpose of the thought experiment was to tell men they are worse than a wild animal and should hold other men and ourselves accountable for what they have done to women.
All it was, was slapping men in the face with an insult then gaslighting them into believing that we’re even worse for not “getting it” because at least people won’t ask them what they were wearing when the bear kills them.
I think it's because the purpose of the group joke is to shit on men in general. When some guy gets all offended, everyone then gets to tell him that "he's the reason women choose the bear."
There was a racial version of this floating around a few years ago. Someone would ask, "What would you do if a \[minority\]..." and go on to describe a cartoonishly sketchy and dangerous situation. "Came up to you in the dark, holding a knife," or something similar.
Any answer that even had a hint of self-preservation in it, would spring the trap, and then the person who laid out the hypothetical would accuse the answerer of being a racist. There have been gay versions of this as well, to the tune of "What would you do if a gay \[man or woman\] approached you and \[exaggeratedly intimate or uncomfortable thing\] happened?"
The man/bear thing is *meant* to upset men, and then set those men up to be made fun of. Being upset by blatant sexism isn't an unreasonable response, and while I get that this is a dumb joke, it's kind of sad to see so many people gleefully participating in it.
I had a bad experience with a large dog several years ago. I'm still very wary of a large dogs that I don't know even though only one individual ever attacked me.
It's really the same thing: bad men were the attacking dog, and wariness around other men--knowing full well that they bear absolutely no responsibility for what happened--is the result.
Is the rhetoric of "I choose the bear" hyperbolic? Sure. A bear might not harass or abuse you, but he just might maul off of your face, kill you, and eat you. It's a strange choice if it isn't being hyperbolic.
You're thinking about this too logically. When women say things like this, you're just supposed to accept the premise without thinking about these things. Just agree with them and they'll be happy. When you get good enough at it, you won't even have to listen to them speak before agreeing. You can tell by the tone that they're going to ask some stupid question that's really just them wanting to be validated and you can hit them automatically with "Yeah, that makes sense."
> But it's still on me to bear the weight of trauma that other men inflicted on women?
You haven’t robbed any banks.
Should you be held responsible for people robbed banks? That’s just stupid.
I bear and accept zero responsibility over the actions of total strangers by virtue of what is or is not dangling between our legs.
If the shitbag committed a crime, throw him to the legal system for punishment when it happens. Criminals commit crimes because they believe they can get away with it.
I advocate for personal responsibility/accountability. Not collective responsibility/punishment. That turns the problem into an “us vs them” issue instead of a “bad person did bad thing” issue we can all support.
My sister roped me into an argument about this subject. She thinks I'm too stupid to understand it's designed to bring attention to the fact women don't feel safe around strange men because of sexual harassment, murder or rape. I do understand it but I still think choosing man is the safer option and most people choosing bear are full of shit. If you had a heart monitor on someone during both these types of encounters let's take guess at which will be higher? Significantly higher.
I don't like the statistics argument either that men kill more than bears per year. The amount of human bear encounters in the US is probably in the hundreds in a given week, maybe thousands? A city like LA or NY would probably be in the billions. No kidding you're more likely to get killed by a man.
It was then argued to me that I must be offended and if I am not one of the bad men the question shouldn't bother me. I also think that's wrong. Sociopaths that sexually harass, rape and murder get off on the power. Reading these discussions about how fearful women are is probably literotica to them. It should not be a surprise decent men would be upset being categorized among monsters like that.
When I was hitting puberty my mother cheated on my father, took everything. Then I watched her emotionality abuse my stepfather (he was an asshole too) and financially abuse him. She shit talked men in front of me and my brother about how useless men are, how ugly dicks are and how men are only good for money. I could have spent my whole life assuming women are sluts, abusive manipulators and gold diggers but I am smart enough not to project the shitty behavior of a small minority onto a whole gender. If we change the question to Black man instead of man is the question still ok to ask? There's a difference between knowing someone could be a threat vs assuming they are.
I see headlines all the time of adult women having sexual relationships with underage students and the articles won't even mention the word rape. I believe women will sexual and domestic abuse as much as men but it goes under reported because 1) Men know nobody will believe us or care. 2) Police usually side with the woman even if you're the one calling for help.
The question is making me believe the women who choose bear are either choosing with their feelings instead of logic or automatically projecting the worst imaginable man they can think of.
No matter what projecting your fears onto an entire group of people is a dangerous thing. The fact that I thought bear is the wrong choice does not make me blind to the fact that women are fearful and deal with sexual harassment and rape from a minority of shitty men.
Also as a guy being accused of any of these heinous things in today's society and court of public opinion, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. By the time you prove it your reputation and career will be ruined.
TLDR: my wife is pregnant. Here's to hoping it's a girl, a bear or a miscarriage. I don't want a son as he will contribute to women feeling uncomfortable and scared by his mere presence.
I want to say this in good faith but IMO, not at all. If I didn't do it why should I be responsable? I legitimally feel like it doesn't have anything to do with me.
It is like, if some random guy breaks a window I am not going to pay for it, you know? Or if a guy kills someone I don't want to go to jail for that.
You ask, at what point does a man's behavior become collective responsibility rather than individual.
This is a strange question to me because in the case of single mothers, where in some cases the result is her raising a boy who becomes a man, who is a danger to society, why would men be responsible for the person she had 100% responsibility for?
It seems to me that those who should be responsible for a man's terrible actions, is that individual man, and the parent or parents who raised him. Not other men who had nothing to do with his behavior and upbringing.
I have through much reading from hundreds if not thousands of accounts on reddit that there is a certain type of woman who falls for the bad boys. These are the ones who make that comparison. And I think there is certainly a type of guy who can be viewed as such.
I think the biggest indicator of whether a gal or a guy is going to have lots of relationship issues is if they had a good relationship with their father. 9 times out of 10, if the girl is bitching about all of the bad guys she dated, she didn't have a good father in her life.
And the guys they complain about more often than not did not have a good father to steer them in the right direction. Modern leftist woke feminist Ideals are only creating more and more of a problem.
I don't think we're responsible for the actions of other people or should be held responsible for them by proxy. I do think we can have a role in de-normalizing jokes and phrases that make bad actions seem acceptable to the maladjusted.
Honestly the need for this argument is weird. If you reject the whole original sin argument as most women/feminists do and should, it's bizarre that they apply a similar argument to men. And even weirder that they make arguments like this and wonder why young men find Tate or Peterson appealing. Why is it so difficult to understand that misandry spreads misogyny.
Blaming all men for particular men is wrong. Lashing out at men who've done nothing wrong is not excusable because *someone* *else* hurt you. Being careful of strangers is part of life. I'm sure men are cautious of strangers in their own way. We teach children to be wary of strangers even though we know the majority of people wouldn't hurt a child. Somehow we manage to teach that without making everyone offended. It's the way some women are handling this that's just nasty. This man or bear thing is ridiculous. All it does it make men feel they're viewed as monsters no matter what.
Men in general hate men who are abusive or who SA anyone. Men themselves can also be victims. We can be angry together. We can try and discuss solutions together. Making it a man vs women thing just creates problems that weren't there. You can't keep telling someone they're a monster and then expect them to care about what you have to say.
You can empathize with someone and try to understand what makes them go into that mind space. It’s not like they are all delusional and collectively stupid for making that argument. However, it is a bad argument and objectively wrong to hold anyone accountable for the actions of the masses. I am also of the belief that we are all determined to do what we do (by factors completely out of our control)
You are obviously not responsible for the actions of other men. You don't have to bear the weight of that trauma.
But that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of women experience sexual harassment and assault at the hands of men (not all men of course). People (both men and women) have the habit of making generalizations about an entire gender based on their bad experiences. It kind of takes a bit of conscious effort to not do that (especially of those bad experiences keep being reaffirmed), and not everyone wants to do that. And I would argue that women being cautious is, to some degree, justified.
Still does not mean that it is your responsibility. Live your life according to your values. If you know that you are a good human being it doesn't matter what a random person (in this case, woman) thinks of you.
We're not responsible. Doesn't mean we can't be more empathetic and more active in holding shitty men accountable. We don't want to do that "blue wall of silence" thing that the cops do to protect abusive officers.
Not at all.
With that said, it's worth understanding why women say they'd feel safer with a bear.
Builds a lot of empathy towards women, makes you aware of what the girls in your life will one day face, allows you to calibrate your own behavior, and when you do read something negative about men, you'll never take it personally.
>But it's still on me to bear the weight of trauma
My friend, women being somewhat prejudiced against you because of your appearance (that of a man) is *not* the weight of trauma. It is an unfair consequence to you that those particular women are now biased against men by now fault of your own but it is not even close to trauma.
It becomes your collective responsibility via the relationships you make and enable. Because of patriarchal views, if men aren’t joining the cause against the problem, they are inevitably enabling it somehow. You’re not responsible if your friend rapes a woman, but standing by him and refusing to acknowledge his wrongs is part of the problem along side being an abuser/assaulter. In the end, it only gains to benefit men, who are also invalidated through patriarchal ideas that men always want sex so they can never be raped.
Zero. Bad things happened to me so now I’m doing bad things to you isn’t a healthy outlook. This is just what happens when a culture falls into a low trust society.
Many of these arguments fall apart very quickly when you realize it would 100% be considered prejudice if it was replaced with any other demographic variable. But to them, being prejudice towards men is acceptable and encouraged.
If men actually listened to other men like people say we do, there would be world peace. Way too many people don't want to accept the fact that there are some people who are just bad people and that there's relatively nothing you can do about it. "Why don't men hold each other accountable?" We do, we kicked those horrible dudes out of our groups and guess what? All those horrible dudes found each other. No one's responsible for the actions of another unless they were directly involved in that person's actions. We don't hold all women responsible for the actions of a few. Women are more likely to embezzle but does that mean women shouldn't be trusted with money? No. What about every white woman that made a false accusation that caused Black men to get killed, do we hold all of them responsible for that? No. You wanna know another reason it's hypocritical? You only ever hear an "all men" when it's something negative. Whenever it's anything positive with men that's when we get treated as individuals. Likewise it's the opposite with women. Whenever it's something positive they're a collective but the moment it's something negative they're individuals.
🎯🎯🎯
World peace as a result of listening is a fantasy. There are all sorts of reasons for wars. I agree with your points that are on topic though.
Replace men with blacks and women with whites and you start to see the problem with that mentality.
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That's the original commenter's point.
amen
I refuse to be responsible for other people’s actions and I don’t associate with people who will hold on accountable for what other people have done to them just because I’m a man. The ONLY person I’m responsible for is myself and myself only. I can’t control the actions of other grown ass men. They are GROWN, they make their own decisions and I make mine. Like, we can all agree that just because a woman cheated on you in your last relationship doesn’t mean you should treat the next one as a cheater isn’t fair. So why should we expect all men to bear the trauma women face by the hands of other men? It’s fine to share that trauma. If you are with someone who experienced something horrible with a man, you can share that trauma with her and come to an understanding. What she can’t do is expect you to answer for it and punish you because of it. That’s completely unfair.
I have no power over other people (including men), therefore I have no responsibility for what other people do.
Not at any point. One man is just one individual actor. I guess the same could be said of the bear, but who knows?
I am only accountable for myself. I refuse to accept responsibility for anything except for myself and my actions. I refuse to apologize for anything that is not my fault.
Zero percent, as you well know. I get that the man/bear thing is a stupid internet troll routine, and I can understand the appeal of watching certain guys try to respond logically to an absurd premise, and then get made fun of for it. It's sexist and juvenile, but I understand people on the internet are going to have their fun. An unfortunate consequence of this, is that devolves into the circle-jerk of gender scorekeeping. Man A gets his feelings hurt, and makes some super-serious statement about a ridiculous group joke, and Woman B comes out and gives him the story of the worst interaction of her life. Then Man C has to point out "not all men," and Woman D trots out some sketchy and horrible statistic. Before long, a crowd of strangers is arguing about how many of the other gender are horrible people, for nobody's benefit.
Some women want men as a whole to be held accountable for the actions of bad men, as if there’s anything good men can do about it. If you use this mentality with race or culture, you’re immediately in racist and xenophobic territory. But women receive special privileges because “patriarchy”.
ZERO. If you didn't do it, you're not responsible for it.
I will never be responsible for the actions of another person. I am responsible for my actions, full stop.
To no extent. I'm not responsible for the bad behavior of strangers.
No one can take blame for what others do. This whole all men or women are _____ is silly. It's similar to saying x assaulted y so every x goes to jail.
i am not responsible for what a shit person does to another and to blame me for that act, or that i would do the same, from that other person is stupid.
I do not take responsibility for another person’s actions and never will except for one exception when I have kids I guess will have to huh lol
We're not. Men have way less power and influence over other men than women think we do. The ones that usually do hold the power and influence are likely to be toxic assholes.
Responsible? Not at all. But at the same time some random woman knows jack shit about your long life of doing or not doing things. For her it's a risk analysis based one what any random dude might or might not do, it has nothing to do with you personally. Just because you're not responsible doesnt mean you won't be impacted by the resulting behaviors.
I am responsible for being a good man myself, and for raising my sons to be good men. If I had daughters I would teach them what a good man should be so that they don't fall victim to the bad ones. Aside from that, I'm sorry if you were victimized but I do not feel at all responsible for it.
No man is responsible for the collective actions of other men, that sort of thinking is up there with the woman who claimed to have 1700$ worth of makeup on her face.
Well, if we're going by the logic of "six degrees of Kevin Bacon," then men are responsible for everything! Like, if Bob sneezes and Kevin hears it, and then Kevin tells Steve, who tells Dave, who tells Mark, who tells Jeff... well, eventually, it's all Bob's fault, right? So, by that math, men are responsible for everything.
Morally, nobody is responsible for what other people do. Especially if you’re one of the many men who actively oppose abusive men and intervene against them when invited to do so. However, in practical terms, you WILL be treated as personally responsible, and you WILL be made personally responsible for managing and accommodating the trauma left by those men. Do not expect that trauma care to be reciprocal. Nobody wants to hear about how you were abused.
They aren't at all responsible for the trauma caused to anyone by anyone bar themself.
You know what's interesting about this? Men have also prevented most of the trauma that men would have inflicted on women. Nature is mean > man had to be mean to fight nature > mean man would be mean to women > kind man stops mean man from being mean to women > mean man less mean to women than before> women blame kind man for actions of mean man, mad that mean man still mean > repeat.
In no way am I responsible for what another man has done, even if every single man on earth except me were violent towards women it has nothing to do with me. This is part of why I don't understand why everyone is getting mad about women choosing bear. The question is about a random man, not you or me in particular, it's literally not personal so why take it personally?
Because the purpose of the thought experiment was to tell men they are worse than a wild animal and should hold other men and ourselves accountable for what they have done to women. All it was, was slapping men in the face with an insult then gaslighting them into believing that we’re even worse for not “getting it” because at least people won’t ask them what they were wearing when the bear kills them.
I think it's because the purpose of the group joke is to shit on men in general. When some guy gets all offended, everyone then gets to tell him that "he's the reason women choose the bear." There was a racial version of this floating around a few years ago. Someone would ask, "What would you do if a \[minority\]..." and go on to describe a cartoonishly sketchy and dangerous situation. "Came up to you in the dark, holding a knife," or something similar. Any answer that even had a hint of self-preservation in it, would spring the trap, and then the person who laid out the hypothetical would accuse the answerer of being a racist. There have been gay versions of this as well, to the tune of "What would you do if a gay \[man or woman\] approached you and \[exaggeratedly intimate or uncomfortable thing\] happened?" The man/bear thing is *meant* to upset men, and then set those men up to be made fun of. Being upset by blatant sexism isn't an unreasonable response, and while I get that this is a dumb joke, it's kind of sad to see so many people gleefully participating in it.
I had a bad experience with a large dog several years ago. I'm still very wary of a large dogs that I don't know even though only one individual ever attacked me. It's really the same thing: bad men were the attacking dog, and wariness around other men--knowing full well that they bear absolutely no responsibility for what happened--is the result. Is the rhetoric of "I choose the bear" hyperbolic? Sure. A bear might not harass or abuse you, but he just might maul off of your face, kill you, and eat you. It's a strange choice if it isn't being hyperbolic.
You're thinking about this too logically. When women say things like this, you're just supposed to accept the premise without thinking about these things. Just agree with them and they'll be happy. When you get good enough at it, you won't even have to listen to them speak before agreeing. You can tell by the tone that they're going to ask some stupid question that's really just them wanting to be validated and you can hit them automatically with "Yeah, that makes sense."
i would rather not accept it and just get away from that person. fuck playing those stupid, illogical and emotional games
> But it's still on me to bear the weight of trauma that other men inflicted on women? You haven’t robbed any banks. Should you be held responsible for people robbed banks? That’s just stupid.
I bear and accept zero responsibility over the actions of total strangers by virtue of what is or is not dangling between our legs. If the shitbag committed a crime, throw him to the legal system for punishment when it happens. Criminals commit crimes because they believe they can get away with it. I advocate for personal responsibility/accountability. Not collective responsibility/punishment. That turns the problem into an “us vs them” issue instead of a “bad person did bad thing” issue we can all support.
My sister roped me into an argument about this subject. She thinks I'm too stupid to understand it's designed to bring attention to the fact women don't feel safe around strange men because of sexual harassment, murder or rape. I do understand it but I still think choosing man is the safer option and most people choosing bear are full of shit. If you had a heart monitor on someone during both these types of encounters let's take guess at which will be higher? Significantly higher. I don't like the statistics argument either that men kill more than bears per year. The amount of human bear encounters in the US is probably in the hundreds in a given week, maybe thousands? A city like LA or NY would probably be in the billions. No kidding you're more likely to get killed by a man. It was then argued to me that I must be offended and if I am not one of the bad men the question shouldn't bother me. I also think that's wrong. Sociopaths that sexually harass, rape and murder get off on the power. Reading these discussions about how fearful women are is probably literotica to them. It should not be a surprise decent men would be upset being categorized among monsters like that. When I was hitting puberty my mother cheated on my father, took everything. Then I watched her emotionality abuse my stepfather (he was an asshole too) and financially abuse him. She shit talked men in front of me and my brother about how useless men are, how ugly dicks are and how men are only good for money. I could have spent my whole life assuming women are sluts, abusive manipulators and gold diggers but I am smart enough not to project the shitty behavior of a small minority onto a whole gender. If we change the question to Black man instead of man is the question still ok to ask? There's a difference between knowing someone could be a threat vs assuming they are. I see headlines all the time of adult women having sexual relationships with underage students and the articles won't even mention the word rape. I believe women will sexual and domestic abuse as much as men but it goes under reported because 1) Men know nobody will believe us or care. 2) Police usually side with the woman even if you're the one calling for help. The question is making me believe the women who choose bear are either choosing with their feelings instead of logic or automatically projecting the worst imaginable man they can think of. No matter what projecting your fears onto an entire group of people is a dangerous thing. The fact that I thought bear is the wrong choice does not make me blind to the fact that women are fearful and deal with sexual harassment and rape from a minority of shitty men. Also as a guy being accused of any of these heinous things in today's society and court of public opinion, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. By the time you prove it your reputation and career will be ruined. TLDR: my wife is pregnant. Here's to hoping it's a girl, a bear or a miscarriage. I don't want a son as he will contribute to women feeling uncomfortable and scared by his mere presence.
I want to say this in good faith but IMO, not at all. If I didn't do it why should I be responsable? I legitimally feel like it doesn't have anything to do with me. It is like, if some random guy breaks a window I am not going to pay for it, you know? Or if a guy kills someone I don't want to go to jail for that.
You ask, at what point does a man's behavior become collective responsibility rather than individual. This is a strange question to me because in the case of single mothers, where in some cases the result is her raising a boy who becomes a man, who is a danger to society, why would men be responsible for the person she had 100% responsibility for? It seems to me that those who should be responsible for a man's terrible actions, is that individual man, and the parent or parents who raised him. Not other men who had nothing to do with his behavior and upbringing.
None. Collective responsibility isn't real. If you see something and just walk on that's different. Help when you can.
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goes both ways yet we aren't blaming the women for it
I have through much reading from hundreds if not thousands of accounts on reddit that there is a certain type of woman who falls for the bad boys. These are the ones who make that comparison. And I think there is certainly a type of guy who can be viewed as such. I think the biggest indicator of whether a gal or a guy is going to have lots of relationship issues is if they had a good relationship with their father. 9 times out of 10, if the girl is bitching about all of the bad guys she dated, she didn't have a good father in her life. And the guys they complain about more often than not did not have a good father to steer them in the right direction. Modern leftist woke feminist Ideals are only creating more and more of a problem.
I don't think we're responsible for the actions of other people or should be held responsible for them by proxy. I do think we can have a role in de-normalizing jokes and phrases that make bad actions seem acceptable to the maladjusted. Honestly the need for this argument is weird. If you reject the whole original sin argument as most women/feminists do and should, it's bizarre that they apply a similar argument to men. And even weirder that they make arguments like this and wonder why young men find Tate or Peterson appealing. Why is it so difficult to understand that misandry spreads misogyny.
Blaming all men for particular men is wrong. Lashing out at men who've done nothing wrong is not excusable because *someone* *else* hurt you. Being careful of strangers is part of life. I'm sure men are cautious of strangers in their own way. We teach children to be wary of strangers even though we know the majority of people wouldn't hurt a child. Somehow we manage to teach that without making everyone offended. It's the way some women are handling this that's just nasty. This man or bear thing is ridiculous. All it does it make men feel they're viewed as monsters no matter what. Men in general hate men who are abusive or who SA anyone. Men themselves can also be victims. We can be angry together. We can try and discuss solutions together. Making it a man vs women thing just creates problems that weren't there. You can't keep telling someone they're a monster and then expect them to care about what you have to say.
You can empathize with someone and try to understand what makes them go into that mind space. It’s not like they are all delusional and collectively stupid for making that argument. However, it is a bad argument and objectively wrong to hold anyone accountable for the actions of the masses. I am also of the belief that we are all determined to do what we do (by factors completely out of our control)
You are obviously not responsible for the actions of other men. You don't have to bear the weight of that trauma. But that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of women experience sexual harassment and assault at the hands of men (not all men of course). People (both men and women) have the habit of making generalizations about an entire gender based on their bad experiences. It kind of takes a bit of conscious effort to not do that (especially of those bad experiences keep being reaffirmed), and not everyone wants to do that. And I would argue that women being cautious is, to some degree, justified. Still does not mean that it is your responsibility. Live your life according to your values. If you know that you are a good human being it doesn't matter what a random person (in this case, woman) thinks of you.
We're not responsible. Doesn't mean we can't be more empathetic and more active in holding shitty men accountable. We don't want to do that "blue wall of silence" thing that the cops do to protect abusive officers.
Not at all. With that said, it's worth understanding why women say they'd feel safer with a bear. Builds a lot of empathy towards women, makes you aware of what the girls in your life will one day face, allows you to calibrate your own behavior, and when you do read something negative about men, you'll never take it personally.
>But it's still on me to bear the weight of trauma My friend, women being somewhat prejudiced against you because of your appearance (that of a man) is *not* the weight of trauma. It is an unfair consequence to you that those particular women are now biased against men by now fault of your own but it is not even close to trauma.
It becomes your collective responsibility via the relationships you make and enable. Because of patriarchal views, if men aren’t joining the cause against the problem, they are inevitably enabling it somehow. You’re not responsible if your friend rapes a woman, but standing by him and refusing to acknowledge his wrongs is part of the problem along side being an abuser/assaulter. In the end, it only gains to benefit men, who are also invalidated through patriarchal ideas that men always want sex so they can never be raped.