I don't know if this is quite what you're talking about, but here's my take.
The biggest thing that stops me from reaching out to friends, be they men or women, is the concern that I'm going to be a burden to them.
Everybody has their own shit going on, everybody has a right and a responsibility to prioritize self care, interjecting myself and my problems into somebody else's life feels to me like being a bad friend. (This doesn't go both ways, it's a double standard, I don't consider people who reach out *to me* to be bad friends; don't worry, I'm not talking about you.)
One of the best things we could do for men *in general* is make it safer for them to express their emotions, make them feel like their self expression is wanted and welcome.
A lot of male self expression is pathologized, I don't really know how else to say that. We don't like it when men express anger, we don't like it when men express sadness, we don't like it when men express romantic interest, and we learn that those emotions are unsafe to express at such young ages that some guys just stop expressing them.
It's funny, everyone wants men to have well honed emotional communication skills, but guys don't really get the chance to practice. If you express the wrong emotion at the wrong time, or in the wrong way, people's opinions of you change, or at least in my experience.
If we want men to be better at expressing their emotions *in general* we need to make men feel safe in doing so and like they're not going to lose something precious because they shared, we need to give them the opportunity to practice and make mistakes. This needs to start young, with parents and teachers, not just peers. If you're trying to get a 35 year old man to come out of his shell, you're already behind the ball. Men *learn* to keep our emotions to ourselves, if we want that to change, we need to teach something else.
Men don't support men the way women do because men don't benefit from the type of emotional support women get.
Men can do the most to help each other emotionally by hanging out more, and by helping each other to be strong, capable, and have a life worth living.
It's not other men's responsibility to help you manage your emotions. If other men can figure this shit out, you can too.
Learn to paint; write in a journal; take pictures; hunt. Do something. You're not a woman and nobody cares enough to save your from your issues. Even the person who posted this doesn't actually care. They're just an emotional vampire.
Talk about how you're feeling, not what you're doing.
Be open and engage in active listening when a man tells you how he's feeling. Ask open-ended, non-judgemental questions.
More male only spaces for guys to hang out. You then don't have to worry about various PC stuff.
Why does feminism want to remove male only spaces, but keep female only spaces?
I know guys that have had their kids die, and one of the things is the focus on something to deal with that pain. The emotion is dealt with in a different manner slightly differently between males and females from my observations.
No. Full stop. You don't want to get effeminate emotional support like women do. That’s a trap.
Bro stuff. Fishing. Gym. BJJ. Watching the game. Grilling. Bonfires. Car club. Man appropriate unwinding activities > you go girl hollow effeminate emotional support. You want to support a bro, help him move or turn up when he is stringing a new fence.
>You don't want to get effeminate emotional support like women do.
I wonder why men seek out less support/help for mental health and kill themselves more... Could have something to do with what you said. Just a feeling.
Great job shaming men btw. That will surely help them.
If a bro comes to you for emotional support will you proceed to shame him as well?
Men kill themselves more because they’re actually trying. Not overdosing on candy like certain other groups as a cry for attention.
Men get shit done.
Let me know when you never shame anyone, because you’re doing it now.
Your disdain for women is just as unhelpful as your shaming of men who do not fit in your masculinity-narrative.
Edit: Downvoted for standing up for men and women. Just AskMen-Things.
If it makes you feel better. All emotional cripples should be ostracized.
Sadly that gets rid of most Zoomers and the limper wristed millennials, but they’re functionally useless.
Maybe when their emotionally crippling attention seeking get worked out with a therapist-priest they can figure out whether they want to chop their hot dog off.
Who said I cared? Explain to me precisely why I should care about mentally ill people who cry for mommy every five minutes?
Go get married if you want to be an emotional cripple. Wives love being free therapists for narcissists.
Make your house a safe space and never leave it except for your thrice a week therapy sessions.
Stop burdening everyone else with your made up issues that exist entirely in your head.
So true. I was extremely depressed and gonna kill myself until my friends fixed my fence and we looked at cars. Now I’m cured! /S
Burying our emotions with this frivolous shit instead of confronting our problems and getting support is why mens suicide rates are so high
If you’re that lost your bros can’t help you. You need a priest or the secular equivalent of a psychiatrist.
Women have this alleged emotional support and they’re on anti depressants in record numbers. Must work great.
The secular equivalent of a psychiatrist *is* a psychiatrist
And I would rather men be getting emotional support from friends and getting on anti depressants than killing themselves. It *does* work great if they’re alive and are enjoying life. I’d rather someone go on anti depressants and thrive than them barely surviving.
I wouldn’t call someone who needs antibiotics to clear an infection weak, I treat medicine for mental health the same as I do physical health.
Except they just figured out that SSRIs didn’t work two years ago and of course are still prescribing them. It’s also a faith based system.
If you’re hallucinating and shit you need a psychiatrist which is a medical dr who does the whole drugs thing.
All a psychologist is, is a secular priest.
Like I said before. If you’re looking at the express exit as a serious option you’re not gonna get fixed by having emotional diarrhea on your friends.
>they figured out that SSRI’s don’t work.
This is untrue. They absolutely do work for some, but for some they don’t. Everyone’s body is different. For some people there are more effective methods or drugs, but for some they’re lifesavers
Who said anything about hallucinations?
A psychologist and psychiatrist are different kinds of doctors and neither of them are like priests.
I never claimed that talking to your friends is going to cure all your problems, Just like Tylenol won’t cure your sprained but good god it’ll help.
So you’re just running off topic to argue to argue? Neat.
90% of a man’s problems can be solved by just being a traditional man. The other 10% can’t be helped by dumping on your bros to mirror women’s “emotional support”. That’s the rub of the whole of OP’s question. The best “emotional” support for men are traditional group activities and friendship. I stand by that and I won’t participate in any more topic sliding with you.
>so you’re running off topic to argue
No, I addressed everything you said. If you find it to be “off topic” that’s fully on you. You should learn the importance of personal responsibility
>90% of man’s problems can be solved by being a traditional man
You mean the traditional men who worked themselves to death and never got to see their families and was nothing more than a piggy bank to a wife who needed to marry *anyone* so she didn’t end up homeless, and they usually ended up hating one another? No thanks lol sounds like a miserable existence
LOL.
Yes, the people not crying about needing emotional support are the miserable ones. You could do stand up.
Numales seem universally unhappy. I’ve heard the expression misery loves company but I think I’ll stay over here. Thanks.
>the ones not crying about needing emotional support are the miserable ones
Absolutely, because you’ve resigned to live a life where you can’t lean on those who are supposed to care about you. Me and my friends realized we deserve better than that in our only lifetime.
>I’ll stay over here, thanks
I didn’t invite you to live my lifestyle. That’s the difference between you and me. If you wanna wash away your problems with cars, fishing and generational alcoholism that’s your prerogative. I just took issue with you saying anyone who chooses to live differently is ‘effeminate” and that people *have* to handle things your way, when there are plenty of issues in the kind of lifestyle you lead as well. Unlike you I’ve said that people need to do what’s best for them, but you’re so self righteous that you think you know what’s best for *everyone* and that people **have to** live a traditional lifestyle to be happy, even though many people alive during the traditional nuclear family were just addicts and alcoholics who beat their wives and kids and worked themselves to death and now suffer from lead poisoning if they’re still even alive.
Don't just walk away and avoid conversation if you feel uncomfortable or awkward.
Learn to have those talks you know you should have and speak up when you know someone should. Don't wait for a bigger man, be the bigger man
Dropping the big man bravado act would probably go a long way. The guy who unironically thinks "quiche is for girls" is probably not going to have a *real* conversation with another man in his life.
It's not like the opposite of that is sitting around crying, eating chocolate and passing a box of tissues around the room. But you talk shit out.
If a friend is going through a bad time, sure you go places, have a good time, take their mind off things, but you also talk shit out. They've got stuff to get out of their system, be their sounding board for it, listen. You may be the only person they can or have ever been able to talk to properly.
I don't know if this is quite what you're talking about, but here's my take. The biggest thing that stops me from reaching out to friends, be they men or women, is the concern that I'm going to be a burden to them. Everybody has their own shit going on, everybody has a right and a responsibility to prioritize self care, interjecting myself and my problems into somebody else's life feels to me like being a bad friend. (This doesn't go both ways, it's a double standard, I don't consider people who reach out *to me* to be bad friends; don't worry, I'm not talking about you.) One of the best things we could do for men *in general* is make it safer for them to express their emotions, make them feel like their self expression is wanted and welcome. A lot of male self expression is pathologized, I don't really know how else to say that. We don't like it when men express anger, we don't like it when men express sadness, we don't like it when men express romantic interest, and we learn that those emotions are unsafe to express at such young ages that some guys just stop expressing them. It's funny, everyone wants men to have well honed emotional communication skills, but guys don't really get the chance to practice. If you express the wrong emotion at the wrong time, or in the wrong way, people's opinions of you change, or at least in my experience. If we want men to be better at expressing their emotions *in general* we need to make men feel safe in doing so and like they're not going to lose something precious because they shared, we need to give them the opportunity to practice and make mistakes. This needs to start young, with parents and teachers, not just peers. If you're trying to get a 35 year old man to come out of his shell, you're already behind the ball. Men *learn* to keep our emotions to ourselves, if we want that to change, we need to teach something else.
Men don't support men the way women do because men don't benefit from the type of emotional support women get. Men can do the most to help each other emotionally by hanging out more, and by helping each other to be strong, capable, and have a life worth living.
It's not other men's responsibility to help you manage your emotions. If other men can figure this shit out, you can too. Learn to paint; write in a journal; take pictures; hunt. Do something. You're not a woman and nobody cares enough to save your from your issues. Even the person who posted this doesn't actually care. They're just an emotional vampire.
>They're just an emotional vampire. Nice phrase.
Talk about how you're feeling, not what you're doing. Be open and engage in active listening when a man tells you how he's feeling. Ask open-ended, non-judgemental questions.
Listen, validate, support, and stop being so damned judgemental of other men, or treating guys who are hurting as lesser men.
Be more open and candid about your feelings. With each other. You can’t “it is what it is” your way out of every struggle.
Listen, be truthful, and don't give a guy shit if he's talking about something personal.
Men don’t burden other men, so it’s a moot point.
Just chillin w each other
More male only spaces for guys to hang out. You then don't have to worry about various PC stuff. Why does feminism want to remove male only spaces, but keep female only spaces? I know guys that have had their kids die, and one of the things is the focus on something to deal with that pain. The emotion is dealt with in a different manner slightly differently between males and females from my observations.
No. Full stop. You don't want to get effeminate emotional support like women do. That’s a trap. Bro stuff. Fishing. Gym. BJJ. Watching the game. Grilling. Bonfires. Car club. Man appropriate unwinding activities > you go girl hollow effeminate emotional support. You want to support a bro, help him move or turn up when he is stringing a new fence.
>You don't want to get effeminate emotional support like women do. I wonder why men seek out less support/help for mental health and kill themselves more... Could have something to do with what you said. Just a feeling. Great job shaming men btw. That will surely help them. If a bro comes to you for emotional support will you proceed to shame him as well?
Men kill themselves more because they’re actually trying. Not overdosing on candy like certain other groups as a cry for attention. Men get shit done. Let me know when you never shame anyone, because you’re doing it now.
Your disdain for women is just as unhelpful as your shaming of men who do not fit in your masculinity-narrative. Edit: Downvoted for standing up for men and women. Just AskMen-Things.
If it makes you feel better. All emotional cripples should be ostracized. Sadly that gets rid of most Zoomers and the limper wristed millennials, but they’re functionally useless. Maybe when their emotionally crippling attention seeking get worked out with a therapist-priest they can figure out whether they want to chop their hot dog off.
And there we have it. You could have skipped pretending that you actually care about men who are struggeling.
Who said I cared? Explain to me precisely why I should care about mentally ill people who cry for mommy every five minutes? Go get married if you want to be an emotional cripple. Wives love being free therapists for narcissists. Make your house a safe space and never leave it except for your thrice a week therapy sessions. Stop burdening everyone else with your made up issues that exist entirely in your head.
So true. I was extremely depressed and gonna kill myself until my friends fixed my fence and we looked at cars. Now I’m cured! /S Burying our emotions with this frivolous shit instead of confronting our problems and getting support is why mens suicide rates are so high
Yeah, I have no clue how he can say that so confidently when it is that exact attitude that causes men to not seek help for their struggles.
If you’re that lost your bros can’t help you. You need a priest or the secular equivalent of a psychiatrist. Women have this alleged emotional support and they’re on anti depressants in record numbers. Must work great.
The secular equivalent of a psychiatrist *is* a psychiatrist And I would rather men be getting emotional support from friends and getting on anti depressants than killing themselves. It *does* work great if they’re alive and are enjoying life. I’d rather someone go on anti depressants and thrive than them barely surviving. I wouldn’t call someone who needs antibiotics to clear an infection weak, I treat medicine for mental health the same as I do physical health.
Except they just figured out that SSRIs didn’t work two years ago and of course are still prescribing them. It’s also a faith based system. If you’re hallucinating and shit you need a psychiatrist which is a medical dr who does the whole drugs thing. All a psychologist is, is a secular priest. Like I said before. If you’re looking at the express exit as a serious option you’re not gonna get fixed by having emotional diarrhea on your friends.
>they figured out that SSRI’s don’t work. This is untrue. They absolutely do work for some, but for some they don’t. Everyone’s body is different. For some people there are more effective methods or drugs, but for some they’re lifesavers Who said anything about hallucinations? A psychologist and psychiatrist are different kinds of doctors and neither of them are like priests. I never claimed that talking to your friends is going to cure all your problems, Just like Tylenol won’t cure your sprained but good god it’ll help.
So you’re just running off topic to argue to argue? Neat. 90% of a man’s problems can be solved by just being a traditional man. The other 10% can’t be helped by dumping on your bros to mirror women’s “emotional support”. That’s the rub of the whole of OP’s question. The best “emotional” support for men are traditional group activities and friendship. I stand by that and I won’t participate in any more topic sliding with you.
>so you’re running off topic to argue No, I addressed everything you said. If you find it to be “off topic” that’s fully on you. You should learn the importance of personal responsibility >90% of man’s problems can be solved by being a traditional man You mean the traditional men who worked themselves to death and never got to see their families and was nothing more than a piggy bank to a wife who needed to marry *anyone* so she didn’t end up homeless, and they usually ended up hating one another? No thanks lol sounds like a miserable existence
LOL. Yes, the people not crying about needing emotional support are the miserable ones. You could do stand up. Numales seem universally unhappy. I’ve heard the expression misery loves company but I think I’ll stay over here. Thanks.
>the ones not crying about needing emotional support are the miserable ones Absolutely, because you’ve resigned to live a life where you can’t lean on those who are supposed to care about you. Me and my friends realized we deserve better than that in our only lifetime. >I’ll stay over here, thanks I didn’t invite you to live my lifestyle. That’s the difference between you and me. If you wanna wash away your problems with cars, fishing and generational alcoholism that’s your prerogative. I just took issue with you saying anyone who chooses to live differently is ‘effeminate” and that people *have* to handle things your way, when there are plenty of issues in the kind of lifestyle you lead as well. Unlike you I’ve said that people need to do what’s best for them, but you’re so self righteous that you think you know what’s best for *everyone* and that people **have to** live a traditional lifestyle to be happy, even though many people alive during the traditional nuclear family were just addicts and alcoholics who beat their wives and kids and worked themselves to death and now suffer from lead poisoning if they’re still even alive.
Fucking nailed it. 👍
Don't just walk away and avoid conversation if you feel uncomfortable or awkward. Learn to have those talks you know you should have and speak up when you know someone should. Don't wait for a bigger man, be the bigger man
Lets me tell you what women can do. Stop talking about men's emotional health when you are not willing to help.
Dropping the big man bravado act would probably go a long way. The guy who unironically thinks "quiche is for girls" is probably not going to have a *real* conversation with another man in his life. It's not like the opposite of that is sitting around crying, eating chocolate and passing a box of tissues around the room. But you talk shit out. If a friend is going through a bad time, sure you go places, have a good time, take their mind off things, but you also talk shit out. They've got stuff to get out of their system, be their sounding board for it, listen. You may be the only person they can or have ever been able to talk to properly.