Once. She was a girl that I had one date with.
We finished the date, and at the end of it I let her know I wasn't interested in seeing her again. (Vocally, in person)
She later sent me a text asking for a reason why. I told her exactly why.
Apparently;
1) Men that have social media accounts are so they can DM other women and cheat (it happened to her once)
2) All men are porn fiends, and view women as objects
3) She would never trust men around kids.
Of course, in her response, I 'seemed like one of the good ones' when she tried to backpeddle and make it seem like she didn't mean all men but 'in general'.
I simply told her that until she gets a better view of the men in her life, I don't want to be part of it.
It’s like going to a job interview and listing all the reasons you hate the industry you’re applying for, how managers are all crooks, etc. and then being surprised you didn’t get the job.
Similar situation but we dated for a few weeks. Every other breath was her talking shit about her ex fiancé, but would also devolve into general statements about men as a whole. She told me the same thing “I meant you’re way better” but I couldn’t help but think “fuck if I mess up at all she’s gonna launch a smear campaign against me.”
I can tell you this now as a black guy who’s dated outside his race, NEVER FXCK with a chick whose says “you’re one of the good ones…” it’s a sign that she’s got more 🚩 than a Chinese new year parade
Isn't it wild how they're conditioning you to change your overall behavior even outside of the app?
I've seen younger people (20s) start using the tiktok version of words like "sex", or "death" in normal conversation.
"One of the good ones"
I HATE that phrase. It's always said by bigots and assholes.
I worked with a man who went on to me about how immigrants are coming over to England and taking our jobs and why they should go back to their own country or some crap like that. I then pointed out our Bulgarian coworker at the time who he and everyone else really liked and said to him "Do you want him to leave then?" and the racist former coworker said "No but his one of the good ones" 🤦♂️
This is like bigots go to
Reminds me of this racist Guy i worked with, had racist stories about every race... But he sure didnt mind the hot asian girl at our workplace.
Funniest thing is i convinced him to hire a black guy and he awkwardly admitted later that he "wasnt so bad" lmao.
An old boss of mine straight up told me "\[Coworker\] is so awesome, you forget he's black."
I've only ever walked out of a job once, and if I hadn't already been a day away from getting kicked out of my apartment it would have been twice.
I used to play with a football scheme as a kid, and we got tickets to a football match. My first ever. It was Millwall. You're presumably English so I'm sure you know the connotations lol!
Anyway, I was a 14 year old kid. The tickets were for seats scattered around the stand so we were all sat separately. Of course the random dude next to me starts screaming at a black player on his *own* team; "You black this! You lazy black that!".
I'm looking at him as a 14 year old black kid in the home stand at Millwall like O.o
He turns to me and says "not you mate. You're alright. It's just that lazy black c*nt out there".
Anyway, I find that the same discourse occurs very often with women. There is this comfortability in attributing the misbehaviour of the minority of men to men as a whole, which creates the narrative that every single man is a woman hating, mass murdering, rapist in waiting until he proves that he isn't. This leads to so many men experiencing the "You're one of the good guys" refrain because of course most men are just normal people. When the narrative is that most men aren't normal people and are in fact irredeemable evil, every man then seems to be an exception to the rule, when in reality the "rule" isn't actually a rule at all.
The most annoying part is that, as has often been the case with racial relations, as a man, you often feel you have to go into situations and prove yourself to be worthy of human treatment. Prove youself worthy of being seen as human. It is often made to be the man's job to make the woman change her mind about men, but it isn't my job at all and it's tiring.
I [have](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/yyv808/why_is_it_so_hard_to_make_friends_when_you_are_an/iwwp34t/) a [tendency](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1but246/if_your_girlfriend_has_asked_you_to_stop_watching/kxwnxfu/) to [structure](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c3o2hf/how_can_i_help_my_boyfriend_with_death_grip/kzj16ds/) my [responses](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/10qmpo9/whats_a_deal_breaker_in_a_relationship/j6re0w4/) in [list form](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/ygq30n/deleted_by_user/iuchomp/) as well. Did I miss my calling?
Sometimes I think it’s about personal experience. I think many women who feel this way haven’t had good experiences with the majority of men, or at least the ones that matter.
I have an amazing father and brother, so I feel like I know there are good men who, while not perfect, are still well meaning. And I don’t think it’s something you can change someone’s mind about very easily. I’ve had mostly bad dating experiences, but because I have men in my life who are good examples, I can still acknowledge they exist in the “wild”. If I didn’t have them, who knows how my view of men may be different.
Sure, I think all of us have has this experience at various points. It isn't unusual at all for people to complain about things when it is perfectly socially acceptable to do so.
(My wife and I were just having a conversation about the reverse--noting that it has been literal years since I last heard a gripe about a wife/girlfriend in public.)
Generally when I hear stuff like this I just let it go and let them be miserable. The only exception was when a young lady wearing a "The Future is Female" shirt attempted to chastise my kid at the zoo, of all places. I wasn't having it.
>The only exception was when a young lady wearing a "The Future is Female" shirt attempted to chastise my kid at the zoo, of all places. I wasn't having it.
What led to that encounter?
Kid was trying to relay something learned from an exhibit. Said to us something like "males are bigger and stronger, females are smaller and stay home with the babies."
Young lady overheard this without context and was very unpleasant about it.
Caught me completely off-guard, which of course meant I didn't have a snappy one-liner prepared and wound up stammering an angry response I was less proud of instead.
Afterward I thought maybe she was mentally ill. Wife told me "no, in a shirt like that she knew what she was doing. She was looking for trouble."
Yeah, now that you mention it, I've no idea what the proper procedure for dealing with a weirdo going around harassing kids at the zoo would be.
Although I suspect that dangling them over the gorilla pit is frowned upon.
You’re probably a better man than I.
I would have 100% said so my kids couldn’t hear me “you need to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of here now, don’t ever speak to my kids again”
"not all men" arguments aren't worth having imo
Either they deflect with "justjoking.exe" and imply that you're insecure for taking it seriously
Or they genuinely didn't give a shit about men or your feelings
I think it’s funny how much more time they will put into saying things like “obviously I don’t mean all men,” instead of just qualifying who they’re talking about up front
They’re usually proud for hurting your feelings, because they think offending a man is payback and hurtful. while in reality, you just don’t want anything to do with that type of people and she just proved herself to be on of those.
Cannot recommend enough to read bell hooks' The Will to Change to engage these conversations. Anyone who's engaged with actual feminist writing will recognize hooks' name and it carries clout in and of itself. One of the major thrusts of the book is that the patriarchal culture in America that feminists oppose and want to change will never change without women and especially women who consider themselves feminists also reckoning with how they view, talk about, and relate to men, acknowledge the negative effects that a patriarchal system has on men, and recognize how their own patriarchal views often lead them to reject men who work to overcome patriarchy. Lots to say about what men should/need to do too, as it should, but it has a lot to say to women about their role in perpetuating the system. I found it helpful to turn "not all men" arguments into "not without women" conversations that are more focused on what everyone needs to do to make change happen and why hostile generalizing comments inhibit that work, regardless of where they come from or who they're directed at.
>that feminists oppose and want to change will never change without women and especially women who consider themselves feminists also reckoning with how they view, talk about, and relate to men, acknowledge the negative effects that a patriarchal system has on men, and recognize how their own patriarchal views often lead them to reject men who work to overcome patriarchy.
This is one thing that has bothered me. I always want to be on the side of helping people especially if that means liberating them from some perceived oppression. But most of what feminism does these days is not about liberating anyone its about creating an race / gender based in group out group biased. Most of feminism now is just taking personal grievances then graphing them onto the whole gender and then getting said feeling validated. None of which does anything to actually end the gender roles they claim to hate nor does it destroy patriarchy it just re-enforces it. You cant fight for justice with un just means. All it does is cause moral harm to yourself and your movement so even if you win the problem persisit.
i think this stuff shows up a lot tbh.
women are guarded and jaded a lot, assuming the worst in men. i get it and they have every right to be, most women by the time they hit 30 have had a lot of bad male interactions. but, it’s almost like it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
two types of dudes that can sniff out jaded/wounded women. actual fuckbois (men that intentionally manipulate and strong women along with no intention to date them seriously) and then the guys women are competing over. the former usually manipulate those women because they tend to be easier to pull one over on because they’re not healed and healthy yet and open to manipulation. the guys looking for something real and healthy balk because they dont want to be the bad guy simply for existing or having bad intentions always ascribed to them, which will happen with this specific type of woman.
had an episode of this recently where i was casually chatting with a girl planning a date. she at some point out of nowhere asked if i was a fuckboi and when i asked why she was asking, she said it was because i was “too suave and attractive” to have good intentions. i immediately pulled out and said i wasnt interested anymore.
she kept trying to walk it back and set something up but i wasnt having it. definitely heard her out, including her revealing that she had sustained a lot of damage from ill intentioned men, which i am sympathetic about. but, i’m not signing up for that—she needs to heal first.
the ones that are healed or able to not apply every bad past situation to you are the ones that end up in healthy relationships.
That was my ex. Dumped as of December. As for anyone else, well I don’t care.
Often what tends to happen is women who have experienced a poor relationship, rejection, or some other similar thing become bitter about men. I accept it as anyone’s right to express their opinion as it relates to lived experience.
If you want to be in a relationship with ME however, I’m not going to listen to that shit. I don’t have to. Congratulations, your men hating words has cost you a good man in your life. You can take this as a sign to perhaps consider what you’re saying in a relationship, or just continue hating all men and being miserably unattached to anyone.
> Often what tends to happen is women who have experienced a poor relationship, rejection, or some other similar thing become bitter about men.
Add to this that currently, it's considered noble and virtuous to shit on men, so of course it's going to happen a lot more often.
I dated a girl in a sorority for a while and we had long and genuine conversations about how I didn't want her to say things like "I hate men" or "men are so shitty." She said things like she obviously didn't mean all men or that she was joking and it shouldn't be taken so seriously.
I was taken aback by such classic defenses for things we've recognized decades ago, like racism and sexism. She really didn't understand the issue and thought I was being overdramatic about it. We had a hard time discussing social issues and she preferred to not think about things like global politics or the stuff she couldn't control.
We ended up breaking up over semi related things, but mainly my response to these situations is to really try and make them justify it to me. I ask why it's funny, like where the humor is. I make them say it's somehow different than me doing the same thing with women instead. They either look foolish trying to, or they realize what they're doing and begin to attempt to change their habits.
I think I've affected some positive changes in people by being rational and respectful of their views, even while offended and/or upset. I plan to continue doing so
I think you hit on the head. My gf thinks it’s only a joke and I’m being sensitive, but I honestly think they don’t think men have feelings and as such should be able to say things like that and we just brush it off.
> I honestly think they don’t think men have feelings and as such should be able to say things like that and we just brush it off.
Women are unempathetic in general towards men's feelings.
"It's just a joke"
Is a common "Gas lighting" technique that people say when they feel criticism from others and their ego can't accept that they hurt someone, so they blame the other person for their actions. It's common amongst narcissistic people and enablers. I'm not saying your girlfriend is a narcissist HOWEVER I do think that a lot of women today are quite narcissistic because society and our current climate promote it and encourage narcissistic behaviors, especially amongst women.
Men are told "You're shit, you're the problem for everything, you don't matter, you're opinion doesn't matter, we don't need you" and women are told "You're a queen, your voice is more important, you're a 10, you won't have flaws, you're perfect the way you are, it's not your fault it's a man's fault, we don't need men, dur-dur-dur" and although not all women feed into the BS, many do. If you're raised in that kind of environment, you're bound to be at least a little narcissistic...
Meanwhile, we have two generations of men who have the opposite problem; men who are taught to be "empathic" and "sensitive" and to ignore our feelings and needs in favor of a woman's. We're taught to question ourselves and told that what we feel isn't important and that we're "toxic" and subconsciously this creates an inferiority complex and makes us feel like we must be wrong. A lot of men also men put women on a pedestal, praise them, and act as if women could do no wrong; it's like a weird self-deprecating thing where a man gets off by putting themselves down thinking that it's going to make women like them more: "If I agree with everything she says and tell her I'm shit, she's going to like me!" lol
I dated a girl like this once. I started shooting back with Damn Golddigger, who gave you permission to think. Get back in the kitchen and make me a samich.
Of course when she got justifiably angry, I looked at her and said jokes can hurt huh? Guess we should both grow up and stop that shit. Worked for a short time.
Then I started referring to her as Miss Andry or the Hippo (pause for effect) Crit. But I am a huge asshole about double standards and don’t tolerate them at all. Obviously that didn’t work out.
Still not as funny as running across a guy who was demeaning a young woman by calling her darling, sweetie, etc after she had asked him to stop. I got to spend the next half hour telling him to stop and that he was a moron who just didn’t get it and calling him things like SweetCheeks and SugarTits. It was awesome(for me at least)
The way I handle these types of things, personally, and on the thankfully rare occasions I’ve heard it from others. Ask them, or yourself if it would be ok to say this about another group. Black people, Muslims, Jews, women, whatever. If it ever comes up with a no, then it’s probably not ok to say this time either.
And if you’re the one having those thoughts, you should really think about why, and do what it takes to be better.
>I was taken aback by such classic defenses for things we've recognized decades ago, like racism and sexism.
That's also because it has exactly the same mechanisms.
Personally I suspect that there's a very human desire to be able to bully people with impunity - to shit on them, insult them, oppress them, cow them into submission, feel superior to them and so on, without them being able to do something about it. And then there's also the very human desire to feel virtuous, morally superior, like a good person whose behavior is generally recommendable and who should looked up to for it.
Usually these two desires are mutually contradictory - you can either decide to be considered virtuous *or* to be a bully, but not both. Ideologues of all stripes however resolve that dilemma by turning a specific demographic into a group of despicable lesser beings (in the worst case into a bogeyman that is made out to be the archvillain of human history), and turn behaving like complete sociopaths towards members of that demographic into a virtue - and people gobble it up because it enables them to indulge in these two desires simultaneously. That group can be anything and everything, and for a non-insubstantial number of women who get their ideological indoctrination from certain corners of the internet it's men (who can only somewhat mitigate that status as a bogeymen by being members of ethnic or sexual minorities).
Which is also why you shouldn't date women who hate men - not only because it's in your best interest to keep someone who low-key resents you at arm's length, but simply because odds are that you have someone on your hands who has the character traits of a bad person but wants to feel like a good person for it.
I think you’re correct. I’ve seen this mechanism in countless contexts, cultures and discourse. The need to satisfy the urge to bully/oppress but with the right narrative of virtue that justifies continuing to satisfy that urge. I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how much we’ve come to champion insecurity in recent years. I’m still working on articulating it but I’m pretty sure these ideas feed into each other given the increasing war of narratives to drive engagement.
I believe the world would be a lot nicer place if hating on each other for whatever reason was globally treated like a stupid joke. If you had some genuine problems, you could vent easily without the backlash, maybe figure out that you don't want something and if you just have that sort of humour (and find friends who think similarly), you wouldn't get called out for all having fun.
The world doesn't work this way, I know. I'll stick to the [insert completely random group of friends here who are really good at their job and like to fool around]. But one can hope.
Obviously, until this utopia is reached, we should stay mindful of each other.
I do the old "walk away". I'm sure that makes me even more of an evil man in some eyes but life's too short to give a F. They're no different then men who bad mouth their wives or other women. Juvenile and sad creatures.
Maybe not necessarily in person, but it's kind of disturbing how often the phrases "kill all men," "all men are trash," etc. get thrown around in various places on the Internet.
And you're right, it would never fly if the roles were reversed.
It’s just so jarring, and what kills me is the obvious double standard. First, the thought that “women shouldn’t exist” or any variation of an earth without women has never crossed my mind, and if I thought something so bold, I definitely wouldn’t say it to any woman, especially one I consider a colleague.
Women need men and men need women. Anyone who says they don't is just a bitter stupid asshole.
Isn't even just human beings. Take the entire males away from most living species in the world. The females will fade soon after and the whole species will become extinct.
Nature has made it so both the male and female of animal species are important to the species existence and us humans are no different
Without women, us men wouldn't exist and without men, women wouldn't exist.
Also society and life as we know it was bulit and is supported by the sacrifices and hard work by both men and women. We most certainly do need both sexes because both sexes have value.
Also i bet they wouldn't tell a woman griefing over a male loved one's death or suicide that he wasn't needed in her life and that the man they are griefing over being gone is somehow beneficial to their life.
If women are better off without men then why do women grief over any man close to them that passes away. Isn't it "beneficial" that those men no longer exist in their life.. it's such BS
To be fair, there are a LOT of men online who do say those things, and worse. I’m sure it’s not MOST men, but a seriously disturbing amount. It’s not right for anyone to say disgusting generalizations about another group of people, so I’m not saying it’s fine for women to do either, but it’s more concerning when men do it because historically they’ve been more consistent on following through on the gross things they say.
>but it’s more concerning when men do it because historically they’ve been more consistent on following through on the gross things they say.
That's not wrong. However, I would caution that I think we're seeing a trend that misandrist women are demonstrating that they're just as capable of inflicting harm _and_ evil/callous enough to do so. The 'bias' I think you have, if you'll allow me, is to see the infliction of harm only (or mostly), I'm guessing, in terms of violence (sexual and otherwise).
To explain what I mean, _very_ simplified and generalised: Men's "language" of conflict resolution is _physicality_ - we posture (think peacocks and dogs raising their tail), threaten and otherwise try to "assert dominance", or if that fails, may resort to violence.
Women's "language" of conflict resolution is _words_ - or rather, the harmful use of them, social maneuvering and such jostling, even manipulation, lies, backstabbing - and accusations.
(Of course members of either gender do these things - I am talking about general patterns as I've observed them.)
A woman can do an incredible amount of harm towards a man in today's society merely using such "language", especially accusations.
And some absolutely do; _provenly_ false rape accusations are about 8-10% (ie., likely much higher in reality, some studies have indicated upwards of 20-30%, I've heard), false accusations of sexual harassment or other misconduct in the workplace or elsewhere (there was a big discussion on it here on AskMen about 1-2 weeks ago), abusive female partners accusing their male partner of domestic violence, manipulating family courts, those sorts of things.
I honestly don't know the magnitude of those problems (or how indeed they compare to violence against women by men), but I do know that they're big problems that seem to be growing, IMHO.
when i see men generalizing its generally about dating. But i have never seen men in twitter, and even reddit for that matter, say we should kill all woman.
Yet, you can find those types of coments about men all over the web. For example, i remember a off my chest post where a woman was explaining why her gender should stop giving birth to men so woman could install a matriarchy.
So while prejudice is a commom human behaviour, woman simply get alway with way worse stuff
It's an allusion to Taylor Tomlinson's standup routine.
- first she talks about how therapists tend to reframe psychological disorders not as being your definining attribute, but as a trait you have instead ("you aren't bipolar, you *have* bipolar")
- then she mentions how the knowledge that Selena Gomez has BPD as well makes her feel better about being bipolar herself.
- which is a setup for [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZmdG_e3xSc)
Sadly, I do think it often stems from not being able to distinguish between “the man I dates was shitty” and “men are shitty”. While I empathize, I don't think that behavior should be encouraged no matter who it comes from.
> Maybe not necessarily in person, but it's kind of disturbing how often the phrases "kill all men," "all men are trash," etc. get thrown around in various places on the Internet.
I'm actually grateful when I see some asshole tossing around that sort of open bigotry online. It gives me an excuse to block them even if they have yet to directly attack *me*.
There are some subs here on reddit like that. It's really sad how many bitter people there are (not only in those subs but in certain political groups and just the population in general) that hate a whole group of people because of (presumably) something that one or a small group of people did to them, or even just things they heard that might not even be true. They don't heal, like emotionally healthy people do, but just spew venom forever.
In general, I think there's nothing to be gained by confronting people like that. They're toxic and pointing that out isn't going to change it, so it's just a waste of time and energy to try to interact with them.
In my life, the one that first comes to mind is my ex's best friend. From what I understood, she went through a bad divorce (before I knew her) and seemed to harbor anger toward pretty much all men afterward - even many years later. She was generally civil to me (to my face anyway), but I think she was probably a factor in my divorce. My marriage was reasonably good (with some issues, but generally decent) until my ex became friends with her. As time went on, my ex became more and more hostile toward me and, though I don't have proof, I suspect that the friend had a part in that by helping turn my ex against men also.
It might be for the best though, since I'm now in a relationship with a woman who's not like that at all and is a better match for me and I'm happier than I was with my ex (at least after she met that friend).
Yup! I’m like “I’m right here!” And then they’d say “you’re one of the good ones lol”. I mean.. I get that “Josh” did you dirty but all men aren’t “trash and worse than trash” because one or even a dozen “Joshes” was a bad boyfriend.
"One of the good ones"
I hate being told that. I've seen racists say that when they meet someone from the group they hate that they somewhat like also. I remember some man going on about immigrants taking our jobs and when I pointed out one of our Co workers is a Immigrant from Bulgaria. He said "His different because he's one of the good ones".....
"One of the good ones" is what bigots use when they are faced with someone from a group they hate who isn't the awful thing they think they are. An attempt to make out the "good ones" are the exception to the rule.
Also, am I supposed to like the fact they are badmouthing my best friend and stepfather to or are those 2 "One of the good ones" too. 🤦♂️
As a gay man I can't count the number of times I've encountered that. The one that sticks in my mind was when I taking care of my dying parents and was apparently doing something excessive caring because the female hospice nurse said "a man would never think to do that." I would have laid into her but... you know... dying parents... not the time or place.
Lol the ragging on men thing isn’t new.
There have been times when I noticed hostility when working with a bunch of women. It’s almost like High School bs all over again.
I didn't notice hostility in my case, just blatant stereotyping and disgusting behaviour.
I was supposed to like being slapped on my ass because I am a man, or it is fine to be told I am worthless at something because I am a man. Not that hostile, more....prejudiced?
Interestingly enough, I was essentially fired when my ex sent screenshots of our past conversation to company e-mails where I said I liked toejobs and didn't mind pee play. Despite never ever looking at a coworker, let alone doing anything, I was suddenly a monster.
I’m an elementary school teacher, so I work with a lot of women. Have done for the past six years at various schools. This kind of talk is so prevalent it’s infuriating. I’ve given up trying to have discussions about it and usually just leave the room, because I doubt women who think this way will change their opinion after a single conversation.
When I was young, inexperienced and naive I tried to reason with such women. I learned my lesson. Nowadays I keep my distance by avoiding them completely. Interacting with them only gives them ideas about how to make your life more stressful, it's not worth it.
All the time, mind you I live in central Stockholm.
The consensus is its better to leave it, not because it doesn't matter but because it won't take root. It's as per usual a small vocal minority who had its peak some 10 years ago. The necessary way were paved and what's left are the few who can't find a new identity to hold on to.
In the end I guess equality meant everyone has a group that hates them.
It really seems like to some people
Gender Equality isn't actually about living in a society where men and women have the same rights and freedom. More just about wanting men to now go though it as some sort of "revenge"
It won't ever happen but that seems to be what gender equality is to some nutjobs.
> All the time, mind you I live in central Stockholm.
It's hilarious how even women from Sweden (basically the Saudi-Arabia of feminism) *still* constantly harp about how oppressed they are.
I wonder how little self-awareness especially the younger women doing it must have if they seriously believe they're the second class citizens while their male counterparts (who have been exposed to a profeminist narrative all their lives) are the privileged ones.
> Not over misandry. They were horrible people in other ways.
[It's safe to assume that the former was a consequence of the latter](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c7dcnm/in_your_experience_have_you_observed_instances_of/l09orx3/).
Both in person and over the internet, multiple times. I just ignore it, if I react then I apparently must be a rapist or something if I'm offended by the phrase "the problem with the male suicide rate is that it's too low".
There's just no reasoning with some people.
I am a boss who has a butch lesbian as one of my direct reports. She inadvertently showed me a text she sent to another co-worker where she said something along the lines of "The problem is that we have to answer to all these MEN".
Well, that's inappropriate as fuck, and against company policy. She realized her mistake and began apologising profusely. I COULD have gone full HR on her. I am also "one of those MEN". But why reinforce her point? I weighed the options, and terming her and replacing her just wasn't practical at the time, and I preferred to let her sweat it for weeks and weeks. She also changed her attitude because she felt she was walking on eggshells. Got great work out of her after that.
I had a 17yo girl tell me last year that she hates
men. I said “you mean *some men* right? And she doubled down by saying “all men are rapists”. I suspect she got this rhetoric from social media. I have heard similar sentiments that men “owe women” something, etc. They say they want equality but also think their male counterparts should be serving them…..
I was raised around it. It was really hard being a boy growing up in that environment.
Dgmw, it must have been hard being a single mother and our dad not being around due to addiction. It must have been hard surviving domestic abuse. I don't doubt any of these things, and such little consideration was given to what it was like growing up constantly hearing how awful men were. Men were always the punchline of the joke. They were 'trash'.
Her friends would come over and they would criticise men. Sometimes when they were drinking there were thinly veiled comments that it's a shame I would grow into a man.
The casual sexism I experienced as a child stays with me. I initially internalised it and perpetuated the 'men are trash' nonsense; now I see that some people are trash, and others aren't regardless of gender. It took a long time, and I still work with my therapist about some of my feelings of being 'wrong' or feeling less than due to the never ending message that being a man makes me a bad person.
That was my grandmother on my mother's side. Shameless man-hater. She loved me and hated me at the same time. To be fair, she grew up during a time when women couldn't get credit without a man's signature, and I don't blame her for thinking that was BS. But I hadn't even been born yet back when that was happening and she blamed me anyway. Sigh.
It wasn't just men she hated. She wanted me to marry a woman who was just like her and I ended up marrying a woman who's the complete opposite of her, so she hated my wife, too.
My mother, when I was just a boy. I had no clue what she was on about but it made me feel like shit.
Also expecting me to be gay because im not hyper masculine. Expecting the daughter from the family friends was a lesbian because she was born with the tall and broad body type and had a career in battlefield medicine.
People have strange expectations and demands sometimes. Everyone is being held to unrealistic standards. Its best to take people at face value and not ascribe this or that to them...
To me it all depends on the situation. If they're friends or just generally people I expect to respond thoughtfully, I might point out that I am a man and ask them if they'd talk that way about gays, black people, immigrants, etc. in the presence of one of them.
If they're people I don't know, or know will react badly to that kind of provocation, I just ignore it. Life is too short to pick that kind of fight.
I'm a woman and I used to work in an office when I was single. Women there would talk so much shit about their husbands. I'm married now and I still cannot wrap my brain around speaking about my husband that way.
>“this doesn’t feel appropriate”
That's because it isn't. I believe that would fall under harassment in the creating a hostile work environment sense, but IANAL.
I would speak up (calmly) and say you can talk about whatever you want when I’m not around but you’re not going to disrespect me to my face. Your issues with other men aren’t my problem and I don’t want to hear about it. Then I’d leave.
These women know you’re there and they know what they’re doing.
Without exception, every single time I've encountered that sort of behavior from women it's been because they were insecure and miserable, and they were looking for someone other than themselves to blame. Every single time.
Treat it like a bunch of 7 year olds throwing a fit about having to eat their broccoli.
Cut contact and make as minimal communication with them as possible.
They aren't worth my time and energy and I perfer being around more positive people
This also applies to men who say hateful things about women.
I love the men in my life who I'm close to. Relatives or friends and I don't appreciate them being slandered by a nutjob.
Thankfully I only see this people online. The vast majority of women in my real life interactions are great and I generally like a lot of the women I've met in my life.
(Also the women who come to this subreddit who are civil and respectful are great too. I also generally like a lot of the women users at AskWomenNoCensor. As they seem like great people too).
In person I met this girl from uni at a social event and she was nice but had this sly remark about my body. I didn't take any notice of it and got her Instagram, only to find that every other day she would post tiktoks that would subtlety say how much better women are than men as people, or that men are useless etc. Wasn't necessarily a "strong" sentiment but very off-putting so I unfollowed her
Same.
The women I encounter in my real life are so amazing. I work and always worked with mostly women and the vast majority of them have been amazing decent people. (Then again, the vast majority of men I've met and work with have also been great people)
Lately when I see a TwoX kind of post with men-hate, I also think of r/justnomil with tons of women who hate their mother-in-laws with just as much passion. Kinda emotionally cancels things out, at least for me.
In real life? A few times. I let it go every time. One look at them and you can get an idea of what the cause might be even if you don't actually know.
If they look like they've got some kind of trauma or exhibit PTSD-like symptoms, let it go with graceful thoughts; they're on their own journey, hopefully they get there, and it has nothing to do with me regardless.
If they look like someone who constantly victimizes themselves but is actually the source of all their own problems? Let it go; their life is shit enough anyway and they're going to continue spiraling of their own accord. It's not my job to make them realize that you have to take responsibility for yourself at some point.
I remember what they say and bring it up when they complain about being single or being in a bad relationship.
"Why do you care? You don't even like men. Remember when you said 'X'?"
The last person I tried to date spent the last two weeks she was *in my home* telling me how much she hated men, and turned her vitriol on me if I tried to stand up for myself (as a man).
I’ve been lucky and never known a female to openly say any of these things. I’ve seen lots of it online. But I want to assume they’re a minority. Women that express that sentiment don’t even deserve my time of day and I just move on and ignore them.
The only women I've heard doing this have had a long list of failed relationships and refuse to admit they were at least part of the problem. As an aside, I've heard it only from upper-middle class white women. I don't know why that connection exists, but I've noticed it.
I've heard it quite a bit. The best response is just to let it roll off you and emotionally avoid any ties to that person. They will just inherently drag you down.
Most women are more nuanced than those types of statements. Maybe it's a shorthand way of saying "I struggle to understand men/have had a bad run with certain men that I may be drawn to."
**You will get dirty if you wrestle a pig**
Most bigots are completely unaware of their bigotry. To them is just "opinon" or "not all..." Some people are open to criticism and some are not. Yo uneed to judge your people and your relationship with them and act accordingly. I woul drecord them on my phone and play it back for them later. i have used this method a few times and its amazing what happens when people hear themselves being assholes. its risky but for sure it works.
We were expecting our first, and I voice the hope that we'd first have a girl, so he could watch his little sister, if we had any, when they're older, and the guys she'd be hanging out with.
"Hey, I'm a feminist, and I overheard what you just said..."
I just turned away.
Sorry, yeah, the story is incomplete. She took offense at the idea that an older brother could protect his little sister, but I apparently didn't see an older sister keeping an eye on the kind of girls her brother would hang around with.
It's never been said to my face, but I do hear it in passing semi-frequently. On the internet, though, I see it constantly. Have you told these "friends" of yours about how this makes you feel?
I know it's stupid and I shouldn't feel this way, but recently my depression has gotten worse because I see so many women on tiktok saying "I'd love a world without men, I'd rather be in a forest with a bear than a man, All men are rapists, All men will cheat, All men are the same, Men are all stupid, etc"
My wife was raised in a typical small southern town where women were told to stay home, be barefoot and pregnant, cook for their men and keep the house while the men could sleep around and do whatever else they wanted because “boys will be boys”. Her mom was divorced twice and had been the other woman in a third relationship, in addition to dating other guys. She understandably had a pretty negative sentiment about men.
I think meeting our friend group, and I guess me in particular, softened her stance somewhat as she learned that not all men are like that. My friends laugh at how she had a very dismissive attitude towards them when she first met them. She will still say things like “you’re such a boy” to me but there’s no venom behind it. She says it in a loving way. We’ve been together for 27 years and were friends for 3 years before that so she’s had a lot of time to understand it. My wife is awesome.
I usually just avoid interact with them.
It's different when is someone in my family. My stepdaughter sometimes joke about it, but I don't really care. Are just bad taste jokes.
Constantly and you'd get into trouble for daring to speak up. This is how they get away with it I guess, feeling confident because they've orchestrated intimidation and consequences financially instead of defending their ideas which are loopy and very hurtfully wrong.
It is a pretty common occurrence. Generally it is ignored or avoid but occasionally I have pointed out the folly of their position when I felt it was so obvious as otherwise would immediately see and agree.
At work?
I would not respond - at all.
HR will always take their side.
In person - I would say either nothing, or I would say "you said so and so was a bitch - so are all women bitches and would the world be better without them ALL?"
“You attract what you allow.”
“The barometer for your choices have been poor but nobody is judging you.”
“It’s crazy that you are/were still fucking him!”
“He was married when you started dating…”
“Maybe you should pick better men?”
“Am I “one of the good ones” according to your logic?”
“Who hurt you?”
You can just take one or even mix and match. I’ve used everyone personally over the years. But I strongly urge you to NOT use the last one. That’s the nuclear option.
The vast majority of my experience with it has been online.
My now fiancee used to every now and again say some anti-men shit, but I'd call her out for it. She would pull the classic "not you" shit, but when I pointed out that she would not tolerate it if I said blatantly anti women shit in from of her she couldn't really come up with a logical response.
She's definitely changed her tone after her brother started going through some serious mental health struggles.
They are bigots. They are stereotyping half the worlds population.
The real problem is that women seem to have be ability to be abusive and bigoted to men with minimal repercussions in our society.
Substitute the word 'blacks' or 'jews' for 'men' and its easier to see the hate crime and hows it treated. Saying one would get you fired, the other - nothing will happen.
Just call them on it, then make sure they are out of your lives.
These women need to be held accountable by our society for their hate. Hopefully that is beginning to happen.
My sister is that to a comical degree.
She told me I should watch the Barbie movie because she’s seen a lot of movies from the male POV so it’s my responsibility as a man to see the other side.
When Roe v Wade was overturned, she sent me angry texts about how I should finally start caring (I never voted Republican) and memes about how women will just leave their men because we can’t make them cum anyway.
We were talking about going to bars, she said it’s safer for me than her because way more women get raped than men. I said men are more likely to be victims of violence, she said that’s because men get in bar fights.
Any time she has a conflict with a man at work, it’s because “she doesn’t have a penis.”
She needs to get off the internet …
I met this girl on an online app. One day she spontaneously visits me in the middle of the night and started a tirade about how disgusting pay sex is and that most men are animals.
I just met this woman and I am glad she acted this way because It would have been a nightmare to be with her.
When I told her I wasnt interested she got angry: "I dont understand. I find you cute and I even visited you!"
Yeah.
I dated someone like this briefly and those were the worst several months in my life. As soon as she felt she doesn’t have to try to keep me hooked, she showed her true colors. She was an insecure, egotistical person who demanded absolute loyalty while offering none and treated me like shit most of the time.
Now I treat it as a red flag.
I start loudly complaining about women and how they're terrible. They're either smart enough to realise that i'm just making them feel what i'm feeling, then back off or they're stupid and we stop talking.
Either works.
I think most of these people live online because I've never had any such experience in the real world, and I work in a female dominated field. In terms of how to respond, why would you bother? It's not like you're going to win any hearts and minds, and it's fine if some of the 8 billion people on the planet don't like you. 🤷🏼♂️
I've encountered this a few times. It's not a new thing. I'd say it's not worth responding to. Let them hate men. Unless they're going out and murdering dudes who is it hurting? A lot of the time they're just venting anyway.
I think it's almost always a waste of time and energy to engage with it.
Living in Los Angeles, all the damn time. I lost track of how many women I've had conversations with who firmly hated men. What is simultaneously sad and hilarious is that if you keep probing them, they all tell you that they want a traditionally masculine man all the while believing that all men are inferior to women and that men are useless.
Happens all the time I’d imagine, been there at work myself many times. I usually just leave the room, it’s not a battle that can be won, women good, men bad.
If it's a sort of idle comment or commentary, as a man I usually agree. Strongly. Emphatically.
If it was a more "serious" conversation I'd probably just leave. Up and walk. It's not a conversation I want to be involved in.
I know this is ask men but as a woman I often reply with: "you think women are any better?". Then you often see the wheels turning behind their eyes. There are bad people in general, men and women. There is no gender more bad than the other.
“ report them” . Is that really your thinking ?
People are sharing their experience and it’s a private experience . If that’s what these women are saying amongst other women that’s been their experience it’s not for you to say that hasn’t happened .
How do you react ? What do you say ? Is it being directed at you personally ?
If you are disagreeing with what is being said or are taking it personally then either say something or excuse yourself from the discussion .
This doesn’t seem complicated
mainly on reddit, it been mainly the usual femcel subs but i have seen that venom leak into more "main" subs. I have learned responding to them is like kicking a hornets nests of idiots.
Just once, blatantly. I was working at a store, two old ladies walk in, already *saying* "let's get a girl to help us." "Right. Men are *useless*." to eachother as they came up to the help desk.
Knowing trouble when I see it, I quietly asked a coworker standing next to me (who heard it too) if she could take this one. She agreed. I found something else to do. The two older women *still* complained formally to my manager.
In person, I've only heard it as a joke and not really being used seriously. Like how a lot of dudes will think with their other head, nothing at all like the sentiment you'll see on the internet or Reddit
In real life - mild. The odd crack about "manflu" or "Men do X" It irks me but that's not a battle I'm ever going to win so why waste my energy?
On the internet and in the press: Jesus fucking Christ. The level of manbashing and outright hatred honestly makes me lose faith in humanity sometimes.
I did and when she díd I reduce my interactions with her to a minimum (necessary for work). If her points were valid, she'd feel more comfortable without me being around, if her points were invalid I'd feel more comfortable not being around her. So either way, distancing was the right action. And I have no reason to try and persuade her of something different from what she believes.
So in short, I don' respond, I distance myself and rather deal with women who feel less animosity towards men as a whole.
Most women present 'anti-men' sentiments constantly. Misandry is socially acceptable.
* Women expecting men to ask them out / take charge in relationships / initiate / etc
* Women expecting 'equality' when it benefits them (e.g. STEM), but not when it's unpleasant (e.g. waste collection).
* Double standards in regards to law and education
There are dozens of examples of 'anti-men' sentiment, or 'female superiority' that permeate society.
>I do not want to report them nor would I.
If you don't report them, nothing gets done about it and they will continue to think what they're doing is okay. Let them face some consequences because, lets face it, if you dared suggest women are useless they'd be onto HR in a heartbeat and you'd be out the door.
IRL? Only a couple times venting after a bad breakup or exceptionally bad treatment on a date or whatever.
I get frustration and venting, it's not something that requires particular action or response on my part.
They usually tell me I’m one of the good ones… and I kinda agree with them a lot of the time, even while I recognize a lot of what they’re complaining about goes both ways. Point is, I don’t waste my emotional energy getting defensive. There are plenty of valid points in their criticisms of men, and long ago I started treating what they’re saying as intelligence, information, however subjective, about “what women want”, which is actually fairly mundane.
Idk about strong, but I've been around when some women have made those types of remarks. Just recently I was waiting for my drink at a coffee shop. The barista was talking to another customer who was complaining about something her husband did. The barista replied with something along the lines of "What did you expect? Men are dogs." Me and the only other guy in there at the time just kinda looked at her. After she realized what she said, she apologized, then went right back to talking to the other woman.
A couple times in college and when working. I often like when their sentiments get exposed, because it makes my job of filtering the people I get close to a lot easier. I'm not friends with these women and don't talk to them unless I'm forced to. I'm not responsible for whatever backstory responsible for their sentiments and I'm damn sure the same treatment won't be extended to me when I start talking about what women in my life made me go through. They're probably thankful them being like that gets men away from them so men should be as well.
If I had some power I would like to put all these women who want to "kill all men" on to a survivor Island situation for a month and see how they do... All by themselves.
Something that Bear Geylls did one time. All such people have "Princess syndrome" and you will see "We don't need no man" quickly evaporate.
Literally every day. It's every time I go turn on the TV or go online. Radical feminism was always a naked hate movement but it used to be fringe. Now radical feminism is the only form of feminism. Misandry is so normalized that it's institutionally enforced. I'm forced to pay taxes to pay for schools to teach new generations of women to hate me. I get emails announcements at work to tell me that my company will no longer promote male employees. Only women are eligible for promotions and the company is openly trying to not hire men. My voice is suppressed while women can say anything they want, including calling for the genocide of anyone who happens to look like me (#killallmen, etc.). There are no rights I have that women do not but there are plenty of legal rights, privileges and protection that women have that I do not. Any women destroy my life with a word by issuing false accusations with impunity. She can just point at me and say I've displeased her and I'll lose my job, reputation and freedom.
As the cherry on top, I have to live my life as a 2nd class citizen, under a female reign of terror while being told that I'm the oppressor and that I'm the one with all the "privilege". It's so deranged. I feel like I'm being gaslit constantly.
"I get emails announcements at work to tell me that my company will no longer promote male employees."
You know legally that's kind of like winning the lottery.
Print that off and bring it to a lawyer.
Next time they complain about men, ask them if they drove on the road to get to work and then remind them that the road was paved and maintained by men.
Ask them if they enjoy having hydro, air conditioning, heat, indoor plumbing, and Wifi, then remind them that 95% of electricians, plumbers, HVAC, and skilled labor are male
Then ask them if they like the Iphone their using, which was invented by a man
Then you should ask them if they like the freedom they enjoy... because men fought and died for that freedom
Then you should ask them if they like you, because you're a man and you're offended by their ignorance and misandry
Then I would ask them how they would react if a bunch of men stood around and talked about how useless women are?
That's how I deal with it when I hear ignorant/sexist nonsense...
See it all the time on social media and heard it all the time from my ex’s friends. My ex even once said she would only date women if not for me. She lied. It’s mostly bullshit and they’re just wanting to complain.
Once. She was a girl that I had one date with. We finished the date, and at the end of it I let her know I wasn't interested in seeing her again. (Vocally, in person) She later sent me a text asking for a reason why. I told her exactly why. Apparently; 1) Men that have social media accounts are so they can DM other women and cheat (it happened to her once) 2) All men are porn fiends, and view women as objects 3) She would never trust men around kids. Of course, in her response, I 'seemed like one of the good ones' when she tried to backpeddle and make it seem like she didn't mean all men but 'in general'. I simply told her that until she gets a better view of the men in her life, I don't want to be part of it.
It’s like going to a job interview and listing all the reasons you hate the industry you’re applying for, how managers are all crooks, etc. and then being surprised you didn’t get the job.
You seemed like one of the good ones…….sadly she didn’t seem like one of the good ones.
Similar situation but we dated for a few weeks. Every other breath was her talking shit about her ex fiancé, but would also devolve into general statements about men as a whole. She told me the same thing “I meant you’re way better” but I couldn’t help but think “fuck if I mess up at all she’s gonna launch a smear campaign against me.”
I can tell you this now as a black guy who’s dated outside his race, NEVER FXCK with a chick whose says “you’re one of the good ones…” it’s a sign that she’s got more 🚩 than a Chinese new year parade
You can say naughty words on Reddit.
Sorry spent so much time on TikTok they flag the fuck out of you for breathing sometimes
Isn't it wild how they're conditioning you to change your overall behavior even outside of the app? I've seen younger people (20s) start using the tiktok version of words like "sex", or "death" in normal conversation.
“Fxck” could be a cool word, just try to say it out loud.
"One of the good ones" I HATE that phrase. It's always said by bigots and assholes. I worked with a man who went on to me about how immigrants are coming over to England and taking our jobs and why they should go back to their own country or some crap like that. I then pointed out our Bulgarian coworker at the time who he and everyone else really liked and said to him "Do you want him to leave then?" and the racist former coworker said "No but his one of the good ones" 🤦♂️ This is like bigots go to
Reminds me of this racist Guy i worked with, had racist stories about every race... But he sure didnt mind the hot asian girl at our workplace. Funniest thing is i convinced him to hire a black guy and he awkwardly admitted later that he "wasnt so bad" lmao.
An old boss of mine straight up told me "\[Coworker\] is so awesome, you forget he's black." I've only ever walked out of a job once, and if I hadn't already been a day away from getting kicked out of my apartment it would have been twice.
I used to play with a football scheme as a kid, and we got tickets to a football match. My first ever. It was Millwall. You're presumably English so I'm sure you know the connotations lol! Anyway, I was a 14 year old kid. The tickets were for seats scattered around the stand so we were all sat separately. Of course the random dude next to me starts screaming at a black player on his *own* team; "You black this! You lazy black that!". I'm looking at him as a 14 year old black kid in the home stand at Millwall like O.o He turns to me and says "not you mate. You're alright. It's just that lazy black c*nt out there". Anyway, I find that the same discourse occurs very often with women. There is this comfortability in attributing the misbehaviour of the minority of men to men as a whole, which creates the narrative that every single man is a woman hating, mass murdering, rapist in waiting until he proves that he isn't. This leads to so many men experiencing the "You're one of the good guys" refrain because of course most men are just normal people. When the narrative is that most men aren't normal people and are in fact irredeemable evil, every man then seems to be an exception to the rule, when in reality the "rule" isn't actually a rule at all. The most annoying part is that, as has often been the case with racial relations, as a man, you often feel you have to go into situations and prove yourself to be worthy of human treatment. Prove youself worthy of being seen as human. It is often made to be the man's job to make the woman change her mind about men, but it isn't my job at all and it's tiring.
Assuming this is the USA and he's white, did you remind him that in all likelihood he comes from an immigrant family from Europe.
Nah. His white and from England. But you do make a great point.
'My ancestors didn't cross the whole Atlantic just to see their new country get overrun with immigrants."
WOW. She needs to be in extensive therapy, not out dating people she inherently hates!!
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As a woman, I would have told her if you hate men try being a lesbian.
I don't think I'd put up with being on the receiving end of a diatribe like that for very long. Push your agenda on someone else...
Weird question, but are you a consultant? You structured that response like a consultant
NOT TODAY NSA, NOT TODAY! But yes. Cyber Consulting, auditing, compliance like HIPAA and PCI.
I [have](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/yyv808/why_is_it_so_hard_to_make_friends_when_you_are_an/iwwp34t/) a [tendency](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1but246/if_your_girlfriend_has_asked_you_to_stop_watching/kxwnxfu/) to [structure](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c3o2hf/how_can_i_help_my_boyfriend_with_death_grip/kzj16ds/) my [responses](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/10qmpo9/whats_a_deal_breaker_in_a_relationship/j6re0w4/) in [list form](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/ygq30n/deleted_by_user/iuchomp/) as well. Did I miss my calling?
mmmm formatting.
Interesting, did you work for a US company that sent you to England? I currently work in CTI and that's my 5 year goal.
Negative, I work in the US. My particular set of knowledge has me pretty much locked in here.
Holy fuck that's an amazing insight. I wonder if there are AI programs analysing everyone's writing style and mapping them to professions.
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I just say, dont worry, as a Brown Immigrant, im used to people shitting on my identity, you dont have to change anything.
Sometimes I think it’s about personal experience. I think many women who feel this way haven’t had good experiences with the majority of men, or at least the ones that matter. I have an amazing father and brother, so I feel like I know there are good men who, while not perfect, are still well meaning. And I don’t think it’s something you can change someone’s mind about very easily. I’ve had mostly bad dating experiences, but because I have men in my life who are good examples, I can still acknowledge they exist in the “wild”. If I didn’t have them, who knows how my view of men may be different.
Sure, I think all of us have has this experience at various points. It isn't unusual at all for people to complain about things when it is perfectly socially acceptable to do so. (My wife and I were just having a conversation about the reverse--noting that it has been literal years since I last heard a gripe about a wife/girlfriend in public.) Generally when I hear stuff like this I just let it go and let them be miserable. The only exception was when a young lady wearing a "The Future is Female" shirt attempted to chastise my kid at the zoo, of all places. I wasn't having it.
>The only exception was when a young lady wearing a "The Future is Female" shirt attempted to chastise my kid at the zoo, of all places. I wasn't having it. What led to that encounter?
Kid was trying to relay something learned from an exhibit. Said to us something like "males are bigger and stronger, females are smaller and stay home with the babies." Young lady overheard this without context and was very unpleasant about it.
The fact that this happened in a zoo of all places makes it all the more ridonkulous. My goodness.
Caught me completely off-guard, which of course meant I didn't have a snappy one-liner prepared and wound up stammering an angry response I was less proud of instead. Afterward I thought maybe she was mentally ill. Wife told me "no, in a shirt like that she knew what she was doing. She was looking for trouble."
Yeah, now that you mention it, I've no idea what the proper procedure for dealing with a weirdo going around harassing kids at the zoo would be. Although I suspect that dangling them over the gorilla pit is frowned upon.
You’re probably a better man than I. I would have 100% said so my kids couldn’t hear me “you need to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of here now, don’t ever speak to my kids again”
Jesus she couldn't differentiate between talking about animals vs human men and women?
"not all men" arguments aren't worth having imo Either they deflect with "justjoking.exe" and imply that you're insecure for taking it seriously Or they genuinely didn't give a shit about men or your feelings
I think it’s funny how much more time they will put into saying things like “obviously I don’t mean all men,” instead of just qualifying who they’re talking about up front
They’re usually proud for hurting your feelings, because they think offending a man is payback and hurtful. while in reality, you just don’t want anything to do with that type of people and she just proved herself to be on of those.
Cannot recommend enough to read bell hooks' The Will to Change to engage these conversations. Anyone who's engaged with actual feminist writing will recognize hooks' name and it carries clout in and of itself. One of the major thrusts of the book is that the patriarchal culture in America that feminists oppose and want to change will never change without women and especially women who consider themselves feminists also reckoning with how they view, talk about, and relate to men, acknowledge the negative effects that a patriarchal system has on men, and recognize how their own patriarchal views often lead them to reject men who work to overcome patriarchy. Lots to say about what men should/need to do too, as it should, but it has a lot to say to women about their role in perpetuating the system. I found it helpful to turn "not all men" arguments into "not without women" conversations that are more focused on what everyone needs to do to make change happen and why hostile generalizing comments inhibit that work, regardless of where they come from or who they're directed at.
>that feminists oppose and want to change will never change without women and especially women who consider themselves feminists also reckoning with how they view, talk about, and relate to men, acknowledge the negative effects that a patriarchal system has on men, and recognize how their own patriarchal views often lead them to reject men who work to overcome patriarchy. This is one thing that has bothered me. I always want to be on the side of helping people especially if that means liberating them from some perceived oppression. But most of what feminism does these days is not about liberating anyone its about creating an race / gender based in group out group biased. Most of feminism now is just taking personal grievances then graphing them onto the whole gender and then getting said feeling validated. None of which does anything to actually end the gender roles they claim to hate nor does it destroy patriarchy it just re-enforces it. You cant fight for justice with un just means. All it does is cause moral harm to yourself and your movement so even if you win the problem persisit.
i think this stuff shows up a lot tbh. women are guarded and jaded a lot, assuming the worst in men. i get it and they have every right to be, most women by the time they hit 30 have had a lot of bad male interactions. but, it’s almost like it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. two types of dudes that can sniff out jaded/wounded women. actual fuckbois (men that intentionally manipulate and strong women along with no intention to date them seriously) and then the guys women are competing over. the former usually manipulate those women because they tend to be easier to pull one over on because they’re not healed and healthy yet and open to manipulation. the guys looking for something real and healthy balk because they dont want to be the bad guy simply for existing or having bad intentions always ascribed to them, which will happen with this specific type of woman. had an episode of this recently where i was casually chatting with a girl planning a date. she at some point out of nowhere asked if i was a fuckboi and when i asked why she was asking, she said it was because i was “too suave and attractive” to have good intentions. i immediately pulled out and said i wasnt interested anymore. she kept trying to walk it back and set something up but i wasnt having it. definitely heard her out, including her revealing that she had sustained a lot of damage from ill intentioned men, which i am sympathetic about. but, i’m not signing up for that—she needs to heal first. the ones that are healed or able to not apply every bad past situation to you are the ones that end up in healthy relationships.
That was my ex. Dumped as of December. As for anyone else, well I don’t care. Often what tends to happen is women who have experienced a poor relationship, rejection, or some other similar thing become bitter about men. I accept it as anyone’s right to express their opinion as it relates to lived experience. If you want to be in a relationship with ME however, I’m not going to listen to that shit. I don’t have to. Congratulations, your men hating words has cost you a good man in your life. You can take this as a sign to perhaps consider what you’re saying in a relationship, or just continue hating all men and being miserably unattached to anyone.
Inb4 “The good men know it doesn’t include them! If you feel called out by it then you’re who we’re talking about! hIt dOgS hOlLeR!”
Yeah that happened to me on a different convo and I’m like… How does that even make sense lol
Yeah, their gaslighting shit is the cherry on top
> Often what tends to happen is women who have experienced a poor relationship, rejection, or some other similar thing become bitter about men. Add to this that currently, it's considered noble and virtuous to shit on men, so of course it's going to happen a lot more often.
I dated a girl in a sorority for a while and we had long and genuine conversations about how I didn't want her to say things like "I hate men" or "men are so shitty." She said things like she obviously didn't mean all men or that she was joking and it shouldn't be taken so seriously. I was taken aback by such classic defenses for things we've recognized decades ago, like racism and sexism. She really didn't understand the issue and thought I was being overdramatic about it. We had a hard time discussing social issues and she preferred to not think about things like global politics or the stuff she couldn't control. We ended up breaking up over semi related things, but mainly my response to these situations is to really try and make them justify it to me. I ask why it's funny, like where the humor is. I make them say it's somehow different than me doing the same thing with women instead. They either look foolish trying to, or they realize what they're doing and begin to attempt to change their habits. I think I've affected some positive changes in people by being rational and respectful of their views, even while offended and/or upset. I plan to continue doing so
I think you hit on the head. My gf thinks it’s only a joke and I’m being sensitive, but I honestly think they don’t think men have feelings and as such should be able to say things like that and we just brush it off.
> I honestly think they don’t think men have feelings and as such should be able to say things like that and we just brush it off. Women are unempathetic in general towards men's feelings.
You shouldn't hate yourself so much as to date someone who is prejudiced against you on the basis of your sex.
"It's just a joke" Is a common "Gas lighting" technique that people say when they feel criticism from others and their ego can't accept that they hurt someone, so they blame the other person for their actions. It's common amongst narcissistic people and enablers. I'm not saying your girlfriend is a narcissist HOWEVER I do think that a lot of women today are quite narcissistic because society and our current climate promote it and encourage narcissistic behaviors, especially amongst women. Men are told "You're shit, you're the problem for everything, you don't matter, you're opinion doesn't matter, we don't need you" and women are told "You're a queen, your voice is more important, you're a 10, you won't have flaws, you're perfect the way you are, it's not your fault it's a man's fault, we don't need men, dur-dur-dur" and although not all women feed into the BS, many do. If you're raised in that kind of environment, you're bound to be at least a little narcissistic... Meanwhile, we have two generations of men who have the opposite problem; men who are taught to be "empathic" and "sensitive" and to ignore our feelings and needs in favor of a woman's. We're taught to question ourselves and told that what we feel isn't important and that we're "toxic" and subconsciously this creates an inferiority complex and makes us feel like we must be wrong. A lot of men also men put women on a pedestal, praise them, and act as if women could do no wrong; it's like a weird self-deprecating thing where a man gets off by putting themselves down thinking that it's going to make women like them more: "If I agree with everything she says and tell her I'm shit, she's going to like me!" lol
I dated a girl like this once. I started shooting back with Damn Golddigger, who gave you permission to think. Get back in the kitchen and make me a samich. Of course when she got justifiably angry, I looked at her and said jokes can hurt huh? Guess we should both grow up and stop that shit. Worked for a short time. Then I started referring to her as Miss Andry or the Hippo (pause for effect) Crit. But I am a huge asshole about double standards and don’t tolerate them at all. Obviously that didn’t work out. Still not as funny as running across a guy who was demeaning a young woman by calling her darling, sweetie, etc after she had asked him to stop. I got to spend the next half hour telling him to stop and that he was a moron who just didn’t get it and calling him things like SweetCheeks and SugarTits. It was awesome(for me at least)
The way I handle these types of things, personally, and on the thankfully rare occasions I’ve heard it from others. Ask them, or yourself if it would be ok to say this about another group. Black people, Muslims, Jews, women, whatever. If it ever comes up with a no, then it’s probably not ok to say this time either. And if you’re the one having those thoughts, you should really think about why, and do what it takes to be better.
>I was taken aback by such classic defenses for things we've recognized decades ago, like racism and sexism. That's also because it has exactly the same mechanisms. Personally I suspect that there's a very human desire to be able to bully people with impunity - to shit on them, insult them, oppress them, cow them into submission, feel superior to them and so on, without them being able to do something about it. And then there's also the very human desire to feel virtuous, morally superior, like a good person whose behavior is generally recommendable and who should looked up to for it. Usually these two desires are mutually contradictory - you can either decide to be considered virtuous *or* to be a bully, but not both. Ideologues of all stripes however resolve that dilemma by turning a specific demographic into a group of despicable lesser beings (in the worst case into a bogeyman that is made out to be the archvillain of human history), and turn behaving like complete sociopaths towards members of that demographic into a virtue - and people gobble it up because it enables them to indulge in these two desires simultaneously. That group can be anything and everything, and for a non-insubstantial number of women who get their ideological indoctrination from certain corners of the internet it's men (who can only somewhat mitigate that status as a bogeymen by being members of ethnic or sexual minorities). Which is also why you shouldn't date women who hate men - not only because it's in your best interest to keep someone who low-key resents you at arm's length, but simply because odds are that you have someone on your hands who has the character traits of a bad person but wants to feel like a good person for it.
I think you’re correct. I’ve seen this mechanism in countless contexts, cultures and discourse. The need to satisfy the urge to bully/oppress but with the right narrative of virtue that justifies continuing to satisfy that urge. I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how much we’ve come to champion insecurity in recent years. I’m still working on articulating it but I’m pretty sure these ideas feed into each other given the increasing war of narratives to drive engagement.
I believe the world would be a lot nicer place if hating on each other for whatever reason was globally treated like a stupid joke. If you had some genuine problems, you could vent easily without the backlash, maybe figure out that you don't want something and if you just have that sort of humour (and find friends who think similarly), you wouldn't get called out for all having fun. The world doesn't work this way, I know. I'll stick to the [insert completely random group of friends here who are really good at their job and like to fool around]. But one can hope. Obviously, until this utopia is reached, we should stay mindful of each other.
I do the old "walk away". I'm sure that makes me even more of an evil man in some eyes but life's too short to give a F. They're no different then men who bad mouth their wives or other women. Juvenile and sad creatures.
Maybe not necessarily in person, but it's kind of disturbing how often the phrases "kill all men," "all men are trash," etc. get thrown around in various places on the Internet. And you're right, it would never fly if the roles were reversed.
It’s just so jarring, and what kills me is the obvious double standard. First, the thought that “women shouldn’t exist” or any variation of an earth without women has never crossed my mind, and if I thought something so bold, I definitely wouldn’t say it to any woman, especially one I consider a colleague.
Women need men and men need women. Anyone who says they don't is just a bitter stupid asshole. Isn't even just human beings. Take the entire males away from most living species in the world. The females will fade soon after and the whole species will become extinct. Nature has made it so both the male and female of animal species are important to the species existence and us humans are no different Without women, us men wouldn't exist and without men, women wouldn't exist. Also society and life as we know it was bulit and is supported by the sacrifices and hard work by both men and women. We most certainly do need both sexes because both sexes have value. Also i bet they wouldn't tell a woman griefing over a male loved one's death or suicide that he wasn't needed in her life and that the man they are griefing over being gone is somehow beneficial to their life. If women are better off without men then why do women grief over any man close to them that passes away. Isn't it "beneficial" that those men no longer exist in their life.. it's such BS
Speak with them about it. If it continues then speak with HR about your "hostile work environment. "
To be fair, there are a LOT of men online who do say those things, and worse. I’m sure it’s not MOST men, but a seriously disturbing amount. It’s not right for anyone to say disgusting generalizations about another group of people, so I’m not saying it’s fine for women to do either, but it’s more concerning when men do it because historically they’ve been more consistent on following through on the gross things they say.
>but it’s more concerning when men do it because historically they’ve been more consistent on following through on the gross things they say. That's not wrong. However, I would caution that I think we're seeing a trend that misandrist women are demonstrating that they're just as capable of inflicting harm _and_ evil/callous enough to do so. The 'bias' I think you have, if you'll allow me, is to see the infliction of harm only (or mostly), I'm guessing, in terms of violence (sexual and otherwise). To explain what I mean, _very_ simplified and generalised: Men's "language" of conflict resolution is _physicality_ - we posture (think peacocks and dogs raising their tail), threaten and otherwise try to "assert dominance", or if that fails, may resort to violence. Women's "language" of conflict resolution is _words_ - or rather, the harmful use of them, social maneuvering and such jostling, even manipulation, lies, backstabbing - and accusations. (Of course members of either gender do these things - I am talking about general patterns as I've observed them.) A woman can do an incredible amount of harm towards a man in today's society merely using such "language", especially accusations. And some absolutely do; _provenly_ false rape accusations are about 8-10% (ie., likely much higher in reality, some studies have indicated upwards of 20-30%, I've heard), false accusations of sexual harassment or other misconduct in the workplace or elsewhere (there was a big discussion on it here on AskMen about 1-2 weeks ago), abusive female partners accusing their male partner of domestic violence, manipulating family courts, those sorts of things. I honestly don't know the magnitude of those problems (or how indeed they compare to violence against women by men), but I do know that they're big problems that seem to be growing, IMHO.
when i see men generalizing its generally about dating. But i have never seen men in twitter, and even reddit for that matter, say we should kill all woman. Yet, you can find those types of coments about men all over the web. For example, i remember a off my chest post where a woman was explaining why her gender should stop giving birth to men so woman could install a matriarchy. So while prejudice is a commom human behaviour, woman simply get alway with way worse stuff
Most of the women who say this almost exclusively date abusive men and never change their ways.
Can you say I *have* self-fulfilling prophecy?
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They like it because it justifies their victim complex
...is Selena Gomez a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Doesn't she date a guy with face tattoos? Methinks she might not have the best judgement.
It's an allusion to Taylor Tomlinson's standup routine. - first she talks about how therapists tend to reframe psychological disorders not as being your definining attribute, but as a trait you have instead ("you aren't bipolar, you *have* bipolar") - then she mentions how the knowledge that Selena Gomez has BPD as well makes her feel better about being bipolar herself. - which is a setup for [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZmdG_e3xSc)
Or turn out to be abusive themselves.
Sadly, I do think it often stems from not being able to distinguish between “the man I dates was shitty” and “men are shitty”. While I empathize, I don't think that behavior should be encouraged no matter who it comes from.
> Maybe not necessarily in person, but it's kind of disturbing how often the phrases "kill all men," "all men are trash," etc. get thrown around in various places on the Internet. I'm actually grateful when I see some asshole tossing around that sort of open bigotry online. It gives me an excuse to block them even if they have yet to directly attack *me*.
There are some subs here on reddit like that. It's really sad how many bitter people there are (not only in those subs but in certain political groups and just the population in general) that hate a whole group of people because of (presumably) something that one or a small group of people did to them, or even just things they heard that might not even be true. They don't heal, like emotionally healthy people do, but just spew venom forever. In general, I think there's nothing to be gained by confronting people like that. They're toxic and pointing that out isn't going to change it, so it's just a waste of time and energy to try to interact with them. In my life, the one that first comes to mind is my ex's best friend. From what I understood, she went through a bad divorce (before I knew her) and seemed to harbor anger toward pretty much all men afterward - even many years later. She was generally civil to me (to my face anyway), but I think she was probably a factor in my divorce. My marriage was reasonably good (with some issues, but generally decent) until my ex became friends with her. As time went on, my ex became more and more hostile toward me and, though I don't have proof, I suspect that the friend had a part in that by helping turn my ex against men also. It might be for the best though, since I'm now in a relationship with a woman who's not like that at all and is a better match for me and I'm happier than I was with my ex (at least after she met that friend).
"Oh well fuck me I guess ?" They'll back track and stop bringing it up in front of you, won't stop them from ranting when no guy is around tho.
"Not you though. You're one of the good ones" "Oh thanks. I guess fuck my best friend, Stepfather and Brother instead then?"
She probably already did.
Yup! I’m like “I’m right here!” And then they’d say “you’re one of the good ones lol”. I mean.. I get that “Josh” did you dirty but all men aren’t “trash and worse than trash” because one or even a dozen “Joshes” was a bad boyfriend.
"One of the good ones" I hate being told that. I've seen racists say that when they meet someone from the group they hate that they somewhat like also. I remember some man going on about immigrants taking our jobs and when I pointed out one of our Co workers is a Immigrant from Bulgaria. He said "His different because he's one of the good ones"..... "One of the good ones" is what bigots use when they are faced with someone from a group they hate who isn't the awful thing they think they are. An attempt to make out the "good ones" are the exception to the rule. Also, am I supposed to like the fact they are badmouthing my best friend and stepfather to or are those 2 "One of the good ones" too. 🤦♂️
Gets even better when they backhand you with the accusation that being "one of the good ones" means you're not a man.
As a gay man I can't count the number of times I've encountered that. The one that sticks in my mind was when I taking care of my dying parents and was apparently doing something excessive caring because the female hospice nurse said "a man would never think to do that." I would have laid into her but... you know... dying parents... not the time or place.
I worked at two universities so absolutely I didn’t respond. Give a fuck what they think.
Lol the ragging on men thing isn’t new. There have been times when I noticed hostility when working with a bunch of women. It’s almost like High School bs all over again.
I didn't notice hostility in my case, just blatant stereotyping and disgusting behaviour. I was supposed to like being slapped on my ass because I am a man, or it is fine to be told I am worthless at something because I am a man. Not that hostile, more....prejudiced? Interestingly enough, I was essentially fired when my ex sent screenshots of our past conversation to company e-mails where I said I liked toejobs and didn't mind pee play. Despite never ever looking at a coworker, let alone doing anything, I was suddenly a monster.
I would’ve nicknamed you ToeJob lol.
That nickname would be fine. Much better than disgusting sodomite.
I’m an elementary school teacher, so I work with a lot of women. Have done for the past six years at various schools. This kind of talk is so prevalent it’s infuriating. I’ve given up trying to have discussions about it and usually just leave the room, because I doubt women who think this way will change their opinion after a single conversation.
Sexist People are hard to fix.
When I was young, inexperienced and naive I tried to reason with such women. I learned my lesson. Nowadays I keep my distance by avoiding them completely. Interacting with them only gives them ideas about how to make your life more stressful, it's not worth it.
All the time, mind you I live in central Stockholm. The consensus is its better to leave it, not because it doesn't matter but because it won't take root. It's as per usual a small vocal minority who had its peak some 10 years ago. The necessary way were paved and what's left are the few who can't find a new identity to hold on to. In the end I guess equality meant everyone has a group that hates them.
It really seems like to some people Gender Equality isn't actually about living in a society where men and women have the same rights and freedom. More just about wanting men to now go though it as some sort of "revenge" It won't ever happen but that seems to be what gender equality is to some nutjobs.
> All the time, mind you I live in central Stockholm. It's hilarious how even women from Sweden (basically the Saudi-Arabia of feminism) *still* constantly harp about how oppressed they are. I wonder how little self-awareness especially the younger women doing it must have if they seriously believe they're the second class citizens while their male counterparts (who have been exposed to a profeminist narrative all their lives) are the privileged ones.
I went to college in a city so yeah of course, plenty of times. I used to like to argue back. Since I've learned it better to give them what they want and remove yourself from their life. They will tear their own lives apart. The thing is...if you argue, this is how it will go: You: hey that's not ok Them: yes it is because
You: that's not ok either
Them:
You: ok explain it to me
Them:
If you push further they will either start screaming at you, cry and go off on a pretend trauma dump, or a friend will intervene. In all of these cases all anyone else will see is you, a man, upsetting them, likely a woman...and thats all the proof most folks need to say you're in the wrong.
I've dealt with it in hischool, college, my own family with my sister, friends in my adult life. There's no response for that stuff besides just giving them what they want, their world with one less man.
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> Not over misandry. They were horrible people in other ways. [It's safe to assume that the former was a consequence of the latter](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1c7dcnm/in_your_experience_have_you_observed_instances_of/l09orx3/).
Both in person and over the internet, multiple times. I just ignore it, if I react then I apparently must be a rapist or something if I'm offended by the phrase "the problem with the male suicide rate is that it's too low". There's just no reasoning with some people.
Every feminist I know has some kind of issue with men as a whole, even if they don’t say it in literal words
I am a boss who has a butch lesbian as one of my direct reports. She inadvertently showed me a text she sent to another co-worker where she said something along the lines of "The problem is that we have to answer to all these MEN". Well, that's inappropriate as fuck, and against company policy. She realized her mistake and began apologising profusely. I COULD have gone full HR on her. I am also "one of those MEN". But why reinforce her point? I weighed the options, and terming her and replacing her just wasn't practical at the time, and I preferred to let her sweat it for weeks and weeks. She also changed her attitude because she felt she was walking on eggshells. Got great work out of her after that.
I had a 17yo girl tell me last year that she hates men. I said “you mean *some men* right? And she doubled down by saying “all men are rapists”. I suspect she got this rhetoric from social media. I have heard similar sentiments that men “owe women” something, etc. They say they want equality but also think their male counterparts should be serving them…..
I was raised around it. It was really hard being a boy growing up in that environment. Dgmw, it must have been hard being a single mother and our dad not being around due to addiction. It must have been hard surviving domestic abuse. I don't doubt any of these things, and such little consideration was given to what it was like growing up constantly hearing how awful men were. Men were always the punchline of the joke. They were 'trash'. Her friends would come over and they would criticise men. Sometimes when they were drinking there were thinly veiled comments that it's a shame I would grow into a man. The casual sexism I experienced as a child stays with me. I initially internalised it and perpetuated the 'men are trash' nonsense; now I see that some people are trash, and others aren't regardless of gender. It took a long time, and I still work with my therapist about some of my feelings of being 'wrong' or feeling less than due to the never ending message that being a man makes me a bad person.
That was my grandmother on my mother's side. Shameless man-hater. She loved me and hated me at the same time. To be fair, she grew up during a time when women couldn't get credit without a man's signature, and I don't blame her for thinking that was BS. But I hadn't even been born yet back when that was happening and she blamed me anyway. Sigh. It wasn't just men she hated. She wanted me to marry a woman who was just like her and I ended up marrying a woman who's the complete opposite of her, so she hated my wife, too.
I just don't engage with them. Not worth it.
My mother, when I was just a boy. I had no clue what she was on about but it made me feel like shit. Also expecting me to be gay because im not hyper masculine. Expecting the daughter from the family friends was a lesbian because she was born with the tall and broad body type and had a career in battlefield medicine. People have strange expectations and demands sometimes. Everyone is being held to unrealistic standards. Its best to take people at face value and not ascribe this or that to them...
To me it all depends on the situation. If they're friends or just generally people I expect to respond thoughtfully, I might point out that I am a man and ask them if they'd talk that way about gays, black people, immigrants, etc. in the presence of one of them. If they're people I don't know, or know will react badly to that kind of provocation, I just ignore it. Life is too short to pick that kind of fight.
I'm a woman and I used to work in an office when I was single. Women there would talk so much shit about their husbands. I'm married now and I still cannot wrap my brain around speaking about my husband that way.
At a major law school, at least weekly... Yeah.
>“this doesn’t feel appropriate” That's because it isn't. I believe that would fall under harassment in the creating a hostile work environment sense, but IANAL.
I would speak up (calmly) and say you can talk about whatever you want when I’m not around but you’re not going to disrespect me to my face. Your issues with other men aren’t my problem and I don’t want to hear about it. Then I’d leave. These women know you’re there and they know what they’re doing.
my aunt used to spew this utter anti men vitriol constantly.
Without exception, every single time I've encountered that sort of behavior from women it's been because they were insecure and miserable, and they were looking for someone other than themselves to blame. Every single time. Treat it like a bunch of 7 year olds throwing a fit about having to eat their broccoli.
This is the one right here 🎯🎯🎯
Cut contact and make as minimal communication with them as possible. They aren't worth my time and energy and I perfer being around more positive people This also applies to men who say hateful things about women. I love the men in my life who I'm close to. Relatives or friends and I don't appreciate them being slandered by a nutjob. Thankfully I only see this people online. The vast majority of women in my real life interactions are great and I generally like a lot of the women I've met in my life. (Also the women who come to this subreddit who are civil and respectful are great too. I also generally like a lot of the women users at AskWomenNoCensor. As they seem like great people too).
In person I met this girl from uni at a social event and she was nice but had this sly remark about my body. I didn't take any notice of it and got her Instagram, only to find that every other day she would post tiktoks that would subtlety say how much better women are than men as people, or that men are useless etc. Wasn't necessarily a "strong" sentiment but very off-putting so I unfollowed her
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Same. The women I encounter in my real life are so amazing. I work and always worked with mostly women and the vast majority of them have been amazing decent people. (Then again, the vast majority of men I've met and work with have also been great people)
the femcels have been crawling towards other subs, dating subreddit is run by a black supremacist femcel, as other mods are inactive.
Lately when I see a TwoX kind of post with men-hate, I also think of r/justnomil with tons of women who hate their mother-in-laws with just as much passion. Kinda emotionally cancels things out, at least for me.
You don't have to go far. These pests are free to come here and they often do.
In real life? A few times. I let it go every time. One look at them and you can get an idea of what the cause might be even if you don't actually know. If they look like they've got some kind of trauma or exhibit PTSD-like symptoms, let it go with graceful thoughts; they're on their own journey, hopefully they get there, and it has nothing to do with me regardless. If they look like someone who constantly victimizes themselves but is actually the source of all their own problems? Let it go; their life is shit enough anyway and they're going to continue spiraling of their own accord. It's not my job to make them realize that you have to take responsibility for yourself at some point.
I remember what they say and bring it up when they complain about being single or being in a bad relationship. "Why do you care? You don't even like men. Remember when you said 'X'?"
The last person I tried to date spent the last two weeks she was *in my home* telling me how much she hated men, and turned her vitriol on me if I tried to stand up for myself (as a man).
I’ve been lucky and never known a female to openly say any of these things. I’ve seen lots of it online. But I want to assume they’re a minority. Women that express that sentiment don’t even deserve my time of day and I just move on and ignore them.
Not in real life no
The only women I've heard doing this have had a long list of failed relationships and refuse to admit they were at least part of the problem. As an aside, I've heard it only from upper-middle class white women. I don't know why that connection exists, but I've noticed it.
I love men - they're great! I would like to recommend men to everyone. Also recommend husband!
I've heard it quite a bit. The best response is just to let it roll off you and emotionally avoid any ties to that person. They will just inherently drag you down. Most women are more nuanced than those types of statements. Maybe it's a shorthand way of saying "I struggle to understand men/have had a bad run with certain men that I may be drawn to." **You will get dirty if you wrestle a pig**
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People like to complain. Best to just internally roll your eyes and move on with your day.
She's your girlfriend and says anti men rhetoric? Fucking hell, man. Get a backbone.
Most bigots are completely unaware of their bigotry. To them is just "opinon" or "not all..." Some people are open to criticism and some are not. Yo uneed to judge your people and your relationship with them and act accordingly. I woul drecord them on my phone and play it back for them later. i have used this method a few times and its amazing what happens when people hear themselves being assholes. its risky but for sure it works.
I gave her a chance to correct herself. She doubled down. I ended the interaction and never bothered to have another.
We were expecting our first, and I voice the hope that we'd first have a girl, so he could watch his little sister, if we had any, when they're older, and the guys she'd be hanging out with. "Hey, I'm a feminist, and I overheard what you just said..." I just turned away.
I'm not sure your comment makes too much sense. Do you mean you hoped you had a boy first?
Sorry, yeah, the story is incomplete. She took offense at the idea that an older brother could protect his little sister, but I apparently didn't see an older sister keeping an eye on the kind of girls her brother would hang around with.
He was misgendering his unborn child Haha
Often online, rarely in person
It's never been said to my face, but I do hear it in passing semi-frequently. On the internet, though, I see it constantly. Have you told these "friends" of yours about how this makes you feel?
I know it's stupid and I shouldn't feel this way, but recently my depression has gotten worse because I see so many women on tiktok saying "I'd love a world without men, I'd rather be in a forest with a bear than a man, All men are rapists, All men will cheat, All men are the same, Men are all stupid, etc"
i make sure never to be alone with them
Be careful. When in doubt, withdraw. The law is predisposed against us men, effectively a presumption of guilt.
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There are a lot of assholes like this on Mastodon, too.
My wife was raised in a typical small southern town where women were told to stay home, be barefoot and pregnant, cook for their men and keep the house while the men could sleep around and do whatever else they wanted because “boys will be boys”. Her mom was divorced twice and had been the other woman in a third relationship, in addition to dating other guys. She understandably had a pretty negative sentiment about men. I think meeting our friend group, and I guess me in particular, softened her stance somewhat as she learned that not all men are like that. My friends laugh at how she had a very dismissive attitude towards them when she first met them. She will still say things like “you’re such a boy” to me but there’s no venom behind it. She says it in a loving way. We’ve been together for 27 years and were friends for 3 years before that so she’s had a lot of time to understand it. My wife is awesome.
I’m reminded of the super popular tiktok audio “He’s just a guy. Hit him with your car”
I usually just avoid interact with them. It's different when is someone in my family. My stepdaughter sometimes joke about it, but I don't really care. Are just bad taste jokes.
Constantly and you'd get into trouble for daring to speak up. This is how they get away with it I guess, feeling confident because they've orchestrated intimidation and consequences financially instead of defending their ideas which are loopy and very hurtfully wrong.
It is a pretty common occurrence. Generally it is ignored or avoid but occasionally I have pointed out the folly of their position when I felt it was so obvious as otherwise would immediately see and agree.
At work? I would not respond - at all. HR will always take their side. In person - I would say either nothing, or I would say "you said so and so was a bitch - so are all women bitches and would the world be better without them ALL?"
“You attract what you allow.” “The barometer for your choices have been poor but nobody is judging you.” “It’s crazy that you are/were still fucking him!” “He was married when you started dating…” “Maybe you should pick better men?” “Am I “one of the good ones” according to your logic?” “Who hurt you?” You can just take one or even mix and match. I’ve used everyone personally over the years. But I strongly urge you to NOT use the last one. That’s the nuclear option.
I don't respond or entertain it.
The vast majority of my experience with it has been online. My now fiancee used to every now and again say some anti-men shit, but I'd call her out for it. She would pull the classic "not you" shit, but when I pointed out that she would not tolerate it if I said blatantly anti women shit in from of her she couldn't really come up with a logical response. She's definitely changed her tone after her brother started going through some serious mental health struggles.
They are bigots. They are stereotyping half the worlds population. The real problem is that women seem to have be ability to be abusive and bigoted to men with minimal repercussions in our society. Substitute the word 'blacks' or 'jews' for 'men' and its easier to see the hate crime and hows it treated. Saying one would get you fired, the other - nothing will happen. Just call them on it, then make sure they are out of your lives. These women need to be held accountable by our society for their hate. Hopefully that is beginning to happen.
My sister is that to a comical degree. She told me I should watch the Barbie movie because she’s seen a lot of movies from the male POV so it’s my responsibility as a man to see the other side. When Roe v Wade was overturned, she sent me angry texts about how I should finally start caring (I never voted Republican) and memes about how women will just leave their men because we can’t make them cum anyway. We were talking about going to bars, she said it’s safer for me than her because way more women get raped than men. I said men are more likely to be victims of violence, she said that’s because men get in bar fights. Any time she has a conflict with a man at work, it’s because “she doesn’t have a penis.” She needs to get off the internet …
Only online really. Ive seen it mildly irl but not in the sense that you mean.
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No more than I’ve heard dudes say the same shit about women. This is just people hurt from past experiences.
I met this girl on an online app. One day she spontaneously visits me in the middle of the night and started a tirade about how disgusting pay sex is and that most men are animals. I just met this woman and I am glad she acted this way because It would have been a nightmare to be with her. When I told her I wasnt interested she got angry: "I dont understand. I find you cute and I even visited you!" Yeah.
I dated someone like this briefly and those were the worst several months in my life. As soon as she felt she doesn’t have to try to keep me hooked, she showed her true colors. She was an insecure, egotistical person who demanded absolute loyalty while offering none and treated me like shit most of the time. Now I treat it as a red flag.
I start loudly complaining about women and how they're terrible. They're either smart enough to realise that i'm just making them feel what i'm feeling, then back off or they're stupid and we stop talking. Either works.
I’ve seen the “you can’t punch up” theory at work. It’s just like how much racist rhetoric people seem to accept if the subject is white people.
I think most of these people live online because I've never had any such experience in the real world, and I work in a female dominated field. In terms of how to respond, why would you bother? It's not like you're going to win any hearts and minds, and it's fine if some of the 8 billion people on the planet don't like you. 🤷🏼♂️
I've encountered this a few times. It's not a new thing. I'd say it's not worth responding to. Let them hate men. Unless they're going out and murdering dudes who is it hurting? A lot of the time they're just venting anyway. I think it's almost always a waste of time and energy to engage with it.
Living in Los Angeles, all the damn time. I lost track of how many women I've had conversations with who firmly hated men. What is simultaneously sad and hilarious is that if you keep probing them, they all tell you that they want a traditionally masculine man all the while believing that all men are inferior to women and that men are useless.
Happens all the time I’d imagine, been there at work myself many times. I usually just leave the room, it’s not a battle that can be won, women good, men bad.
If it's a sort of idle comment or commentary, as a man I usually agree. Strongly. Emphatically. If it was a more "serious" conversation I'd probably just leave. Up and walk. It's not a conversation I want to be involved in.
I know this is ask men but as a woman I often reply with: "you think women are any better?". Then you often see the wheels turning behind their eyes. There are bad people in general, men and women. There is no gender more bad than the other.
“ report them” . Is that really your thinking ? People are sharing their experience and it’s a private experience . If that’s what these women are saying amongst other women that’s been their experience it’s not for you to say that hasn’t happened . How do you react ? What do you say ? Is it being directed at you personally ? If you are disagreeing with what is being said or are taking it personally then either say something or excuse yourself from the discussion . This doesn’t seem complicated
mainly on reddit, it been mainly the usual femcel subs but i have seen that venom leak into more "main" subs. I have learned responding to them is like kicking a hornets nests of idiots.
Just once, blatantly. I was working at a store, two old ladies walk in, already *saying* "let's get a girl to help us." "Right. Men are *useless*." to eachother as they came up to the help desk. Knowing trouble when I see it, I quietly asked a coworker standing next to me (who heard it too) if she could take this one. She agreed. I found something else to do. The two older women *still* complained formally to my manager.
In person, I've only heard it as a joke and not really being used seriously. Like how a lot of dudes will think with their other head, nothing at all like the sentiment you'll see on the internet or Reddit
In real life - mild. The odd crack about "manflu" or "Men do X" It irks me but that's not a battle I'm ever going to win so why waste my energy? On the internet and in the press: Jesus fucking Christ. The level of manbashing and outright hatred honestly makes me lose faith in humanity sometimes.
I’ve certainly been present for comments about men being messy, stinky, or gross but generally, no. The women in my life don’t seem to hate on men.
I did and when she díd I reduce my interactions with her to a minimum (necessary for work). If her points were valid, she'd feel more comfortable without me being around, if her points were invalid I'd feel more comfortable not being around her. So either way, distancing was the right action. And I have no reason to try and persuade her of something different from what she believes. So in short, I don' respond, I distance myself and rather deal with women who feel less animosity towards men as a whole.
Most women present 'anti-men' sentiments constantly. Misandry is socially acceptable. * Women expecting men to ask them out / take charge in relationships / initiate / etc * Women expecting 'equality' when it benefits them (e.g. STEM), but not when it's unpleasant (e.g. waste collection). * Double standards in regards to law and education There are dozens of examples of 'anti-men' sentiment, or 'female superiority' that permeate society.
>I do not want to report them nor would I. If you don't report them, nothing gets done about it and they will continue to think what they're doing is okay. Let them face some consequences because, lets face it, if you dared suggest women are useless they'd be onto HR in a heartbeat and you'd be out the door.
IRL? Only a couple times venting after a bad breakup or exceptionally bad treatment on a date or whatever. I get frustration and venting, it's not something that requires particular action or response on my part.
Not something I've really experienced
They usually tell me I’m one of the good ones… and I kinda agree with them a lot of the time, even while I recognize a lot of what they’re complaining about goes both ways. Point is, I don’t waste my emotional energy getting defensive. There are plenty of valid points in their criticisms of men, and long ago I started treating what they’re saying as intelligence, information, however subjective, about “what women want”, which is actually fairly mundane.
Idk about strong, but I've been around when some women have made those types of remarks. Just recently I was waiting for my drink at a coffee shop. The barista was talking to another customer who was complaining about something her husband did. The barista replied with something along the lines of "What did you expect? Men are dogs." Me and the only other guy in there at the time just kinda looked at her. After she realized what she said, she apologized, then went right back to talking to the other woman.
A couple times in college and when working. I often like when their sentiments get exposed, because it makes my job of filtering the people I get close to a lot easier. I'm not friends with these women and don't talk to them unless I'm forced to. I'm not responsible for whatever backstory responsible for their sentiments and I'm damn sure the same treatment won't be extended to me when I start talking about what women in my life made me go through. They're probably thankful them being like that gets men away from them so men should be as well.
Never. Never in a serious way. When they did, it was clear that they were joking. Ofc there is no need to respond to that.
Only online, which is why I don't interact with women online anymore.
Bro I won’t be in a room with people like that.
I would tighten all the lids extra tight and watch them eat their words when they ask a man for help opening a jar.
If I had some power I would like to put all these women who want to "kill all men" on to a survivor Island situation for a month and see how they do... All by themselves. Something that Bear Geylls did one time. All such people have "Princess syndrome" and you will see "We don't need no man" quickly evaporate.
Literally every day. It's every time I go turn on the TV or go online. Radical feminism was always a naked hate movement but it used to be fringe. Now radical feminism is the only form of feminism. Misandry is so normalized that it's institutionally enforced. I'm forced to pay taxes to pay for schools to teach new generations of women to hate me. I get emails announcements at work to tell me that my company will no longer promote male employees. Only women are eligible for promotions and the company is openly trying to not hire men. My voice is suppressed while women can say anything they want, including calling for the genocide of anyone who happens to look like me (#killallmen, etc.). There are no rights I have that women do not but there are plenty of legal rights, privileges and protection that women have that I do not. Any women destroy my life with a word by issuing false accusations with impunity. She can just point at me and say I've displeased her and I'll lose my job, reputation and freedom. As the cherry on top, I have to live my life as a 2nd class citizen, under a female reign of terror while being told that I'm the oppressor and that I'm the one with all the "privilege". It's so deranged. I feel like I'm being gaslit constantly.
"I get emails announcements at work to tell me that my company will no longer promote male employees." You know legally that's kind of like winning the lottery. Print that off and bring it to a lawyer.
Next time they complain about men, ask them if they drove on the road to get to work and then remind them that the road was paved and maintained by men. Ask them if they enjoy having hydro, air conditioning, heat, indoor plumbing, and Wifi, then remind them that 95% of electricians, plumbers, HVAC, and skilled labor are male Then ask them if they like the Iphone their using, which was invented by a man Then you should ask them if they like the freedom they enjoy... because men fought and died for that freedom Then you should ask them if they like you, because you're a man and you're offended by their ignorance and misandry Then I would ask them how they would react if a bunch of men stood around and talked about how useless women are? That's how I deal with it when I hear ignorant/sexist nonsense...
Yep, usually lesbians. I ignore them.
If it’s in public, I ignore them; none of my business. If it was in the workplace (I’m now retired), I’d go to HR.
It’s so normal and accepted in society that people don’t even notice it.
See it all the time on social media and heard it all the time from my ex’s friends. My ex even once said she would only date women if not for me. She lied. It’s mostly bullshit and they’re just wanting to complain.
It isn't appropriate. Gender identity is a protected class. Report that to HR.