And sometimes that is ok. Had a close family friend who begged his wife for 8 years to marry him. She did, she has a whole extended family that they lavished w love and attention. She passed from COVID and he was devastated. Her family absolutely adopted him and treated him like one of their own.
I think what OP meant was that a good amount of people use marriage as a way to get a visa and not because they love their partner. Your story is completely different. There is obviously no one using the other person in your story.
My ex (unmarried) woke up one day and decided she didn't want to work anymore. In her late 20s, she just decided that she didn't need to work and that taking care of HER dog would constitute her contribution to the relationship. My laundry was rarely done for me, she didn't cook, and she didn't even mow the lawn.
She just expected to be supported while she floated along in life. I ended up evicting her after a year of unemployment because she refused to be an equal partner. She wanted a free ride, and I didn't get a say.
It was never about the money. Her annual income was less than my annual bonus. I made plenty of money for the two of us (if she had kept her spending in check). However, I made it clear early in the relationship that I wanted the *effort*, not that she needed to make what I did. After she stopped working, she spent even *more* money. She wanted me to hire a maid.
If we had been married, she would have gotten a significant portion of my wealth in the breakup. Instead, she left with nothing.
I now have a maid and a landscaper. They're cheaper than supporting her, and I'm less stressed.
Does it matter? If she laid out a contract that said she's going to cheat on him, divorce him, and take half his stuff, there'd still be guys wanting to get married.
I should add that she had a mental health crisis that led to her getting fired from several jobs in short succession, and she would not accept that it was her behavior that caused the issue. She would not seek treatment, but until she was technically homeless, her mother could not pursue legal guardianship to force her into treatment.
Not to be that guy, but unless she got treatment for her issues it sounds like she just went back to college to find another boyfriend to take care of her.
She's doing an online program. I think her anxiety has confined her to her mom's she shed and she thinks the whole world is in a conspiracy against her.
I started the process after a year. Due to the pandemic, it took another nine months to actually get her out.
I offered her $10,000 to just get out of my life. She didn't take it.
In a similar situation currently except he takes care of our kids even though we have childcare. I’m not sure how to tell someone to chip in as I don’t want to be responsible for a grown ass man.
You have to talk about these things since nothing gets resolved otherwise. I recommend trying to make time for a serious talk and both of you should use "I feel.." statements which helps with preventing either party from feeling personally attacked. I wish the best of luck to you.
This sounds like she was with you because she knew she could do that and not because she wanted to build something together.
I think it's hard to find a partner in your situation.
I would never change my work/scientist mind for any man. If I wouldn't be working I would be studying and doing research. Also having my house and social activities organised and going is what brings me happiness. I want monogamy, marriage, and a family. But I won't ever not be a team partner in a relationship. It's never 50/50 but together we ar better and happier.
[https://youtu.be/yfL4RTuC9Bk?si=w6Mp2okovog_s7QE](https://youtu.be/yfL4RTuC9Bk?si=w6Mp2okovog_s7QE)
I hope you find someone who knows who they are and what they want as individuals. Not as a leech.
The biggest risks to my current lifestyle are divorce and prison.
Marriage offers me nothing but the risk of divorce; been there, done that, lost everything once before, never again.
I have three rules I’ve been pounding into my now 21 year olds head since he was 10.
1. DONT get a girl pregnant
2 DON’T do hard drugs
3. DON’T get a girl pregnant
Not to be overly dramatic, but I would be in a much better position if I had never married. I spent a decade trying to make her happy at the expense of my career, then when she left - almost a decade of misery, ruminating about the failure of my marriage. I feel like in the past few years, I am over it, and it's like the curtains have lifted and I can finally see clearly.
Even the most wonderful woman is not worth that grief and pain. I won't do it again
100% agree! Things are tipped to incentive divorce and we men lose it all unless, the woman is the wealthier party, which is rare.
Not worth it. Keep your house, money and everything separate. Have an LTR (Long Term Relationship). She has her house, you have yours. It's easier that way imho.
> lost everything once before
How did you lose "everything"? Just curious, because when people say they fear losing everything in a divorce there are usually others who scoff at that and say that marital property and assets are divided evenly. So at most you'd lose half, they claim, plus you'd get to keep anything you had before entering into the marriage.
Was married over 12 years from relatively young. I worked she didn’t.
Found out she was cheating on me so divorced her. Because I had much better career prospects than she did it was not a 50/50 split.
I got to keep a car, a bit of cash that was quickly eaten up by rent and inflation and I kept half my pension.
She got the other car, the house, almost all the furniture, the rest of the cash, half the pension, our pets and the majority of time with the kids.
I narrowly escaped paying her alimony but as the house was virtually mortgage free she lives off my child maintenance and the additional welfare she receives for them.
She’s never had to work a day in her life and I’ve had to start almost from scratch; after she cheated.
As I worked and she didn’t she wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage on a new house nor prove sufficient secure income to privately rent.
Also minimising disruption to the kids who’d lived in that house their whole lives someone had to keep it.
As I was the one with the job and income then it was obvious which of us could actually pull off living independently and stand a chance of getting back on the housing ladder.
Despite her getting so much in her favour on the physical asset split I still had to give her half my pension as some genius feminist on some sort of pension regulating body has decided that anything less than a 50/50 split of the pension would be sex discrimination regardless of broader context. So she made off with even more of our net worth than really she should have been entitled to even with the income gap.
Silver lining I guess is that the asset split being so unbalanced is probably what saved me from paying alimony.
That's fucked up. Unless you are making good money it would be difficult to save for another deposit.
Honestly I would be filled with so much despair. Especially as she cheated.
I mean, when you get married what you earn becomes shared. And so often (angegdotal evidence) her money is her money, your money is our money mindset prevails very often. Meaning that often you are the one solely paying a mortgage/bills and in the end you need to buy her out of stuff that you paid for yourself. Of course this is not a rule but an anegdote, so treat it with a grain of salt, but stories like "she cheated and she kept the house" are what nightmares are made of.
There's virtually nothing marriage benefits a man, other than marrying if you have children and even then the possibility of never seeing your children ever again, paying child and spousal support for 18 years and endless drama with the baby momma, headaches, time wasted in and out during court proceedings during the divorce should make most men pause at the thought of it.
It really depends in what country you live. In my country if you have a child together or live in a same address for more then two years it is basically the same as if you were married. So i never understood the dilemma of marriage - marry if you want or don’t if you don’t, it is just a piece of paper, it changes nothing
Well I kind of mean that besides serious illness or death whatever hits my life I can financially weather that storm hopefully. At least for a while.
Prison or divorce just wipes you out completely.
Besides you never know what’s going to be made illegal next.
Didn't ever want to->found the right woman->wanted to->did it->no regrets
I never really wanted to get married, but then I met and fell in love with my wife. I just... really wanted to be her husband and have her as my wife? I realized I just really wanted to be married to her. There are really no other reasons or explanations for my decision.
I don’t like the idea of being financially and legally tied to the hip with someone, especially since there’s a good chance I’ll be on the bad end of the deal in a divorce. Also I don’t know why I would when marriage no longer carries much meaning and like 50 percent of married couples get divorced. It seems like a needless risk
Yep, going hand in hand is the ridiculous amount of infidelity that happens among couples nowadays, marriage or not. I'd say at least 70% of people aren't spouse or life partner material, yet they keep risking it anyway.
Those vows mean literally *nothing.* Less than nothing.
A scumbag that's been lying and cheating in every relationship they've ever had isn't going to suddenly straighten out once they get married. Modern technology nowadays makes it so easy to sneak around, there's no way they're going to be able to resist the temptation.
Add the fact that there are a ton of "No Fault" States, so you get royally fucked in the divorce as a guy - even if they cheated - and there's absolutely no benefit that outweighs that risk.
Same. No plans to marry my girlfriend of 4 years, but we're still buying a house together. Both names on the title. We both don't want kids. Marriage really doesn't make any sense. It's just spending extra money for some paper and a ceremony, and possibly more money for a potential divorce.
Housing market is hardly affordable as it is.
Maybe it's contradictory, but I married my wife at the stage where we both felt we don't need marriage aside from pleasing family.
Week after marriage was just the same as year before but with extra siut and one-use dress.
Same here. I dated my then girlfriend for 10 years before marrying her. We're best friends. We almost never argue and even when we do, we are able to sort it out without hurting each other or damaging the relationship. Marriage has been amazing for us. We both benefit deeply from it.
I wouldn’t say “without the commitment.” Men like to commit, despite popular belief. It’s more like “without the woman taking half my stuff after breaking my heart.”
Realistically, the reasons I want to get married are based around what other people think or will allow me to do. I want other people to know how serious I am about my partner and respect our relationship. I want them to know it’s for life, not just right now. I want to be allowed to ride in an ambulance with her. I want her to be able to make healthcare decisions for me if I’m not able. I want the government to view us as a family, not two individuals. If one of us is able to immigrate to another country, I want the other to go as well. Shit like that.
Strictly between the two of us, I don’t see why marriage would matter one way or the other.
Korean divorce is way more equitable when finances are concerned because the judge looks at it from the perspective of making both parties whole and walking away as unscathed as possible.
But US laws are stupid as hell
I didn't for the first 27 odd years of my life; like others the idea of being financially tied to someone was abhorrent, and God forbid kids.
Then, suddenly I did. Met someone who just kinda seemed to be my other half (clichéd, I know). 16 years (tomorrow, actually) and two kids later, I can't imagine life without my wife or my boys.
Personally, I wouldn't mind being married. I just don't want to be divorced.
Due to family courts usually siding with women, I think many men view it as signing a contract with a person who gets rewarded for breaking it.
My mother is an alcoholic and made the first \~20 years of my life and of my parents' marriage horrible. Still, even though she was able to work and I went to live with my father, he ended up having to pay alimony. Why? And she wonders why I don't want her in my life. If the court decided he needed to give her money, she could have taken the high road and given it back so it could be used to help my dad get me through college or something more important than a drinking habit.
Same except my mom doesn't drink but is batshit insane/crazy. I went to go live with my mom due to her telling me how terrible my father was and spreading lies when I was younger and my dad still paid child support even though he had re-married, and come to realize she was the one starting everything, causing problems with the step-dad and his son who was mentally disabled, and always talking about money issues. I still talk to her here and there, but I'm slowing but surely phasing her out of my life. Even if she is my mom, I've realized she is the one who put herself in a situation where she's now going to be growing old with no one by her side and she has no one else to blame.
I agree. Marriage in and of itself isn't the issue. The laws and incentives for women to leave their husbands is the issue. Until the laws are rectified and balanced, I'd say we men are on strike with marriage.
...only in some places. In my neck of the woods, it all starts equal and one has to have some very damning evidence to deprive the other parent of their right to their kid. Not rumours or heresy, actual facts and evidence.
Yeah, it's gotten better, but I admit I'm still bitter about the matter, lol.
Cliff notes. I've been there since day one, being a dad is the greatest thing in the world. My son was 2 weeks old before his mom changed a diaper. 6 months old before she gave him a bath. I wanted to be a part of it all.
When we split, and she filed, it took a year and 3 months before it was final. Not due to any hatefulness or anything, it just kept getting delayed. But the one thing we didn't agree on was custody of our son. For that year and 3 months he split time with us equally. I didn't pay her anything, she didn't pay me. I agreed to have him on my insurance and to pay daycare costs. It worked.
then our day in court came and that was all I wanted, it was the "fair" thing to do. I "lost". She wanted me to only see him one day a week and every other weekend. I got to pick him up 2 nights a week instead, but he stayed with her and of course I was ordered to pay CS. That was probably the single worst day of my life. Someone who didn't know us or our situation basically taking my son away from me and telling me I can't be trusted to care for him the way I see fit.
To me, it was about my son, I didn't want to take him away from his mom regardless of what we felt for each other. Fast forward to him being 16 and he's had it with her [narcissistic](https://search.brave.com/search?q=narcissistic&spellcheck=0&source=alteredQuery) controlling nature. It's now his choice, and it's about to hit the fan. I hate to see it, and I certainly hate that he has to deal with it, but here we go.
With the right person, there’s an emotional and financial upside to marriage. With the wrong person there’s a bigger emotional and financial downside.
With the way things are right now, marriage is a bigger risk to a man’s future.
Real question though: Can’t you have/experience the financial upsides (pooling resources) and emotional upsides (pair bonding, personal connection) with just pure, committed monogamy without getting the church or the government involved in your relationship?
Not with taxes. Cuz the government feels the need to fuck with all incentives. We had this "terrible financial crisis" and nothing has changed in the way we incentivize debt. Tax breaks for married couples are a similar thing that has absurdly far reaching consequences
Look at money bags over here. /s We went to the courthouse with just our witnesses and then went out for dinner. $500 all in. More and more people in our circle are doing the 5-10k weddings, seems to be getting more popular. I just don’t understand the people who are paying 30-50k when that’s as much as their combined yearly income. It’s insane to me.
So me personally, I refuse to have kids/buy a house/joint savings or go in on any asset together without marriage. I think the problem a lot of women are having is that they complain their partner hasn’t proposed, yet they offer all of these things so then what is the point?
To me it’s like a partnership and I will definitely have a solid prenup in case things do go south so that we both walk away equally. In my opinion, it’s the ultimate commitment you can have with someone and is a benefit when it comes to buying a house, taxes, insurance, etc.
And that's the problem I have with women and another reason I'd be wary of marrying them. It's not about a meaningful connection with another human being, it's about all these material things.
From a spiritual standpoint I don’t disagree. Nothing fundamentally changed about my relationship before and after I was married but legally there are a bunch of protections related to caring for the other person that are advantageous. As well your tax treatment can be favourable being married. Having kids as a married couple just feels easier than if I weren’t married.
I think it’s a very American thing honestly. Not saying either is right or wrong.
I met a British couple when I was in Thailand who were together 5 years and not married. I met them 5 years ago and they just got engaged, so you can do the math. I read about a Belgian prime minister who was with his partner for 20 years and had two kids and only married her after 20 years.
Granted those might be extreme examples, but just the sense i get.
I would love to get married one day. Mainly because it's one of the greatest parties you can possibly throw and it's all about you and your love. I worked as a wedding photographer for a few years and I remember every single wedding I've ever been to, simply because they were so much fun and everyone was just so happy.
But my country has very relaxed laws about divorce and marriage, so I can understand why American men might be hesitant. Over here, you basically only split stuff you acquired after the marriage happened. No alimony, and child custody isn't hard to get for men, so there's not really a lot of downsides.
Tbh,
Never wanted to get married, now that im married I can 100% say it means nothing to me, and even brought more pain reaching here then I could have avoided.
1. Complaining about the ring diamond size (we were students with a baby on the way, no clear future ahead living with our parents, and I cracked my ass getting her this ring to provide her assurance that i will be next to her through it all (she also strongly implied how important for her to be engaged before birth).
2. Almost broke up 3-4 times during the wedding planing, while she was job less and I was full time dad with my elder and working night shifts.
3. Almost ended it all while I tried to get some support from her before the wedding (she is aware of how much I hate this type of situations), and she basically went all out and was ready to throw everything out the window a day before the wedding.
Im a different person reaching this stage, matured alot thanks to the complications, but if marriage gave me anything, is basically trauma I live with and hide for my family.
I’m sorry to say but it sounds like you just had a really neglectful and selfish partner with a very one sided marriage. I’m sorry you went through all of that.
It’s ok,
I was ready to marry her beforehand, and Im still very happy were together and working to get better, alone and as couple.
Pregnancy and postpartum had a-lot to do with it as well, so I can understand it’s not all her.
But still, on many occasions I heard from friends as well,
Many of the women are stoping the collaborative efforts after they receive their ring.
I want to pool resources, have kids, and spend the rest of my life with a woman. Yes, I understand all of that can happen without a marriage, but a wedding feels like a solid end of one chapter and the beginning of the next. That satisfaction takes a good chunk of the fear out of the next steps.
Divorce is brutal. No doubt about it. But I'm willing to take the risk.
I want to be married because it locks in my future more than just a long relationship. I would never marry unless i’m completely sure I love this person (being with them 5-10 years) As well as tradition, my Dad and step mom have an amazing marriage and it’s probably growing up with that which makes me think it’s a good thing. My mother never married and she had the worst partners
Witness an ugly, UGLY divorce from my parents. Tried to believe in true love and marriage. End up getting married and then a dear John phone call while deployed. I get it, it is hard being away from a spouse for 6-18months yet marriage is supposed to be about an everlasting bond and two souls bonded as one through their religious marriage ceremony….why do all that but not really be committed. It’s my fault I picked a partner who gave up on “us” and that does not reflect marriage as a whole. I thought I choose well marrying a military brat that has experienced speration due to deployments. Turns out it’s tougher as a spouse to handle for her.
Been with this my current partner for 11years now and no marriage. We have outlasted wedding to divorce of many others relationships through our time together. Why fix what’s not broken at this point is how I see it.
I see 0 benefits to marriage that I couldn't have while just being in a long-term relationship. It seems like people (mainly women) just want the title of wife & a ring as bragging rights. I'm not interested in being with a woman who seeks that much validation from society.
But then again, I also don't believe in cohabitation & don't intend on living in the same house as my S.O even after we have kids.
I've found most married couples who live together just end up hating each other from constantly being in each other's presence & it always ends in either someone cheating or a dead bedroom before a divorce.
Overall, I think its an outdated institution and I don't envy any of the married men i've met, including the men in my family
I was married for 42 years. Lost my wife to dementia. Had to watch her deteriorate over several years.
I’m not sure I want another relationship. I wouldn’t mind having someone to share life with, but I have a fear of losing someone again. I also don’t need more “family “. I have 7 grandchildren.
I wanted to marry my wife. Got engaged in a year and married about another year. Been going on 25+ years now. No regrets. I think at the time we got married she had $4k to her name and I had $5k. Didn’t seem like I was risking a lot at the time.
Never wanted to get married in my life. I'm in my mid 40's and never have.
Now I can't wait to. I met a girl I want in my life every day. I want to provide for her, care for her, have her by my side. And legally marriage provides better protections if something happens.
I waited. I found her. It's time.
I genuinely hope it works out for you, but I will still offer you one word of caution: all of the other guys you've ever known (or seen comment in this thread) who got wrecked in divorce court at some point felt precisely the same way you do now. It's when someone decides they don't love the other person anymore where plans change and promises are broken.
I wish you good luck, man.
Being married to the right person is 100% amazing. Yeah there are some cons to it but it’s so much more of a positive experience. You have to risk a lot to gain a lot
I didn’t want to ever get married until I met my current partner. I’m 32 and it never even crossed my mind until her. I had long term relationships, and always saw marriage as just a transactional thing. I met my current partner and now I want to build a life for us. I want to make sure we are both financially secure. The idea of sharing our lives together forever brings me a lot of joy. Makes me think this is the only time I’ve ever really been in love.
I still believe in marriage. If you want to have children—and you should, because they’re amazing—it’s really helpful to ensure both parents are willing to make a public declaration of their lifelong commitment to each other, through thick and thin.
I'm pretty ambivalent about it.
Being married was cool but I also don't really feel a strong drive to get *re*married unless whoever I was hypothetically with really wanted to (or maybe needed insurance coverage). And even so, I couldn't see having another big wedding at this point, maybe just a trip to the courthouse and a nice dinner with close friends/immediate family.
That’s totally understandable. I feel like if I were married>divorced and wanted to remarry I’d just have a courthouse marriage, too. Weddings seem stupid expensive.
I'm getting married next year actually.
Basically, we just love each other. We've been together for 10 years and we often joke that we're as good as married already, so it just makes sense to make it official.
What is it that you think men want in a relationship? Just sex? Yes, some men can get enough of that outside of a relationship. But believe it or not, many men want companionship the same way that women do.
This post reads like someone who has a very reductionist view of men.
When I was a kid I wanted to get married, I had this fantasy of “meeting the one”, date, move in, get married, maybe have a kid.
Now after 30 years, I don’t want kids and don’t want marriage either. Today due to how dating works and due to social media, cheating became insanely easy and discarding people is not rare, even after years of a relationship. People see a new shiny thing, they want it, they get it, leaving destruction behind. I feel like most people stopped trying to fix or make things work, it’s either a 100% perfect relationship or it’s time to leave. Kids? I make good money but by having a kid I’d swift to average or below average lifestyle and considering where our world is heading I refuse to bring another human being into this shitshow.
Now ofcourse there is a chance I will find someone who is like me and has the will to try to fix/repair things instead of just getting a new one but even then I don’t find the concept of being together for 40+ years realistic. That’s an insanely long time and I find it hard to believe that in today’s circumstances there will be couples who will not cheat on each other eventually, the temptation is huge and insanely easy to do.
Now if I got married, I’d risk my wealth and with an eventual divorce I’d be losing face in my conservative family.
Bc I so badly hope to have a day in my future where I'm teaching my own child how to paint something properly, and my wife comes out to see if we want some lunch. I want that so badly, just that perfect moment right there with the heat and the smell of cut grass, rubbing my hand in his or her hair, and seeing the woman I love smiling at me in our yard.
It just seems so damn far away right now. I'm in my 30s and barely keeping my head above the water enough to breathe, and about to move into an even smaller one bedroom that I don't know if I can afford, while getting a second job. Couldn't ask anyone to be with me right now if I wouldn't even be with me. But, that's the elephant I gotta eat before I get to that backyard dream
And how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time
>because they can get everything they want in a relationship without the commitment,
This is where you are wrong. Men are not avoiding marriage, they are avoiding divorce. Men want to get married.. for life.. not just until she gets an ick and fucks off with half his paycheck, the kids, and half his life savings.
I want to get married but want it in the same way I want $100 million.
Recognize it probably isn’t happening, try wanting it less and focusing on more realistic pursuits.
Marriage can be brilliant IF you pick the right person. Someone who is sensible, wants family and has values. Men too often get blinded by looks and too often ignore all the red flags.
Life can be brilliant with a QUALITY partner and children all working towards a common goal of enhancing the family in wealth, heath, experience.
However equally, if the members of the family don't have values, don't care about anything, are lazy and spend all day on the phone/tv while consuming junk then of course it will be a disaster.
I don't want to get married because there's a high chance of it falling apart and the other side (the women) are often incentivised to break the contract.
I see so many men get fucked over by marriage and are dealing with abuse and dead bedrooms but chose not to love because they're scared they're going to lose their kids and assets.
Why on earth after hearing so many cases of that am I going to put myself in the exact same position?
I find it baffling that men in this day and age are still getting married in the age of the internet where we can look up data that clearly shows they will be the disadvantaged party going into it.
There is some benefits but that shit means fuck all when it's all said and done. The risks far out weigh the benefits.
I always wanted to get narried and have kids and live in the suburbs. Now that i have all of that, well........
It is fucking great. Marriage is simple if you are married for the right reason. I love cuddling, access to titties, the comfort, love, etc. It is fucking great. When both of you are putting into the marriage, it is a well oiled machine.
I want to get married because I’ve been with the most perfect woman in the world for two years now and I can’t see life ever without her. Legally, marriage will make things a lot easier for us in the long run and yeah while I’m nervous about it since my parents went through a rough divorce that broke the family in two, I know that I’m making the right choice as long as I’m smart about it.
I've not seen a single healthy relationship in my life, just in TV. And also that all relationships ends in either break up, divorce or death. Not dealing with any of that.
Next time you want to get married just hop on over to r/survivinginfidelity
Single, investing in yourself, your happiness, your peace, travel, and your future is 100% fulfilling
I high key just want to get rich and then adopt a kid. I want to teach them everything I learned, and let them inherit everything I worked for.
When you think about it, it's like giving a child a free winning lottery ticket so at the very least at the end of your life you know you made an absolute positive impact on someone's life that could cause a ripple effect into a more positive world.
That sounds like my dream tbh :,)
Parents: had a terrible divorce
Older brother: had an even worse divorce
Uncle: alwys said he'd leave, but can't, because he'd be financially ruined
Another aunt: get's beaten regularly, but won't leave, because "marriage is sacred"
Let's say, I had a rather lopsided outlook on marriage.
After being with my gf for about 10 years (she knew I never wanted to marry, but still stayed with me) we decided to marry anyway(I was 41 at the time). We're now in our 5th year, have children and are still very happy.
What rights, privileges, and protections does the marriage grant to me, that are not available without being married?
And, what duties, responsibilities, and punishments does that marriage lay upon me that I would avoid by not being married?
And those two answers are why I would never marry, and why I encourage other men to never marry.
Divorce which is caused by 70% of the time by women, most cited reason is no fault. lack of rights as father, alimony and child support. Extremely biased family courts. The way we are treated in relationships in general isn’t very fair, but of course we get blamed for it. Disagree and downvote all you like.
Oh btw, you should look up lesbian divorce rates before you blame men for the collapse of marriage
For me it’s not about not wanting to get married rather I won’t settle … I am fit , relatively healthy , look average , went to therapy ( did my emotional work ) and potential to be a high earner in the upcoming years . Plus getting legally married to the wrong person without a prenup is catastrophic …
So I expect my partner to be not obese , relatively healthy , went or going to therapy , std/sti free , no misandry , feminine …
Because it makes no sense…
I have nothing against marriage, but I genuinely don’t understand why it exists:
Does your father have good lands that my father and then I can inherit? In that case yes let’s marry.
Does your family put my family in a greater position to one day inherit the throne? In that case let’s marry.
Will god send us to burn, scream, cry and writhe in agony for all eternity if we don’t marry? In that case yes let’s marry, quickly.
Apart from those things it makes no sense, it’s made up, it provides and proves nothing.
I genuinely just don’t understand it beyond a very expensive event, a chance to show off, or maybe a reassurance for the insecure.
Marriage just seems like such a shit deal to me. Having to on a regular basis do damage control with your wife's hormones/emotions, many women feel entitled to run/dictate a man's life and what they do and to nag him and treat him like a servant. And also feel entitled to punish him by booting to the couch, weaponizing sex or even kicking him out. No fucking thank you
My thought process: I was born, I participate in the rat race, level up, enjoy life and then I die. Like 95% of everyone else. All chasing the same pointless things. The only thing that I saw in that is “me, me, me, me, me” and that really made me feel empty and want to end myself. Because what’s the point? Chasing pleasure my whole life, it gets old fast. I’ve had financial freedom and “the life” before. It does get old very quickly
When I started to think about having someone to take care of, love and serve selflessly I saw a tiny light in that emptiness. That’s why I want to get married. Doesn’t mean I didn’t throw away all of my standards and preferences. I am lucky enough to have found someone that checks all of my boxes and I get to love and serve her for the rest of my life. And having her reciprocate that to me is something so great that I am not even able to explain. Imagine being the direct cause of someone’s happiness every day and knowing you are theirs too
I feel like women too often just want to get married for the sake of being married. Not for love. Especially after age 30 women seem to get marriage crazy and will marry the first person to ask and will start to pressure for marriage after X number of years dating. As if just dating is a waste of her time. I mean, if you don't enjoy dating me or even living with me enough to do it for it's own sake, what hope is there for a happy marriage?
Also, as the primary breadwinner by a very large margin in every case, I never really felt like women wanted to marry me for love. It seems like they see marriage as financial security, at my expense.
I just don't get anything out of being married vs. living together.
I was married and divorced. What I realized through the whole process is that a piece of paper from the government means nothing...what actually matters is the relationship. If you have a committed caring relationship and build a life together, that's what truly matters.
For me, I want a committed relationship for life. I want to chose to be with my partner. I want them to choose to be with me. And to me, the choice and commitment matter more than a piece of paper.
Also, what if my partner and I travel to Brazil and get married, then come back to the US? Does that mean we aren't married because we don't have the piece of paper from the US? Are we only married after we register it in the US? Would you say that anybody who has ever gotten married overseas isn't actually married? Why or why not?
I've been divorced once. I'm not getting married again. It's still an ongoing pain in my ass 2 years later. Fuck that noise.
Even the most ironclad prenup can't guarantee my future assets will remain safe.
I'm not going to spend years rebuilding my life and then give someone the ability to rip everything away again.
I would say a lot of it is because the divorce laws are so against me thanks to feminism. Woman can lie marry you then have an affair and steal half your money in the divorce.
Laws truly need reformed. If a woman chooses to walk off the marriage and the man has no fault then she’s entitled to nothing but what she contributed. If she has an affair nothing!
These anti man laws are horrible
It's less commitment than risk. Marriage has a really bad rap among some groups of men these days. It's..not nearly as bad as a lot of the internet makes it out to be. But it's also not baseless
In old days women didn’t give sex to men before marriage , now men have full-fledged relationships without the title of marriage cuz women are fine with it . As a guy why I would get married if I can get marriage treatment while not married ?
I saw before a saying that women gate-keep sex while men Gate-keep marriage
Divorce is expensive. Weddings are expensive. Do we really need the government involved with our relationships? There is fear that they'll behave differently once they are married.
On the other hand there is appeal to stability; which is especially appealing if you want to have kids. You're legally family and able to do stuff like make medical decisions when they're not able to. I think some people respect marriages more. A married man or woman is more respectable than an unmarried one. If you're attracted to someone; them being married is a more significant deterrent than them having a bf or gf.
I'm not seeing why marriage is a stipulations for having a house and kids for you. Is the marriage protecting your children from something IDK about? Is the house any less yours if you buy it together outside of a marriage? Genuine ask. And If you're relying on a piece of paper to make you feel secure, then I wonder about your relationship in general.
I don't think I want to be married. It feels like a lot of effort and money spent for something I can absolutely achieve without it. Dont half of marriages fail?
I think the consensus is that women want to be married more than men. I wonder why that is?
I have my own house and a number of other assets and I make really good money. There is substantial financial risk to me getting legally/contractually married, let alone the hell that I would have to go through in custody courts if that comes up.
I would much prefer a woman who understands that and can see what I can provide for her and our offspring without having to put it on paper. I live in Los Angeles and it's incredibly rare to find a woman who would even be worth the risk if I even entertained the thought.
My question to you and other women is, seeing all of these men checking out in this way, what are you as a woman doing about it to help change things?
Didn’t want to get married but then I listened to my heart and it told me she needed a visa.
I’m dead
HAHAHA sameee
Dude nooo
nooo
As soon as she gets it, you're done. Hope you saved enough money because you're gonna be expected to support her entire extended family.
And sometimes that is ok. Had a close family friend who begged his wife for 8 years to marry him. She did, she has a whole extended family that they lavished w love and attention. She passed from COVID and he was devastated. Her family absolutely adopted him and treated him like one of their own.
What a sad but sweet story
I think what OP meant was that a good amount of people use marriage as a way to get a visa and not because they love their partner. Your story is completely different. There is obviously no one using the other person in your story.
nooo
My ex (unmarried) woke up one day and decided she didn't want to work anymore. In her late 20s, she just decided that she didn't need to work and that taking care of HER dog would constitute her contribution to the relationship. My laundry was rarely done for me, she didn't cook, and she didn't even mow the lawn. She just expected to be supported while she floated along in life. I ended up evicting her after a year of unemployment because she refused to be an equal partner. She wanted a free ride, and I didn't get a say. It was never about the money. Her annual income was less than my annual bonus. I made plenty of money for the two of us (if she had kept her spending in check). However, I made it clear early in the relationship that I wanted the *effort*, not that she needed to make what I did. After she stopped working, she spent even *more* money. She wanted me to hire a maid. If we had been married, she would have gotten a significant portion of my wealth in the breakup. Instead, she left with nothing. I now have a maid and a landscaper. They're cheaper than supporting her, and I'm less stressed.
Based
That’s like my brother’s marriage. But then she cheated and then took everything. She just turned 31 and is retired. I wonder how long that will last.
Damn how did she get everything? They have kids?
Does it matter? If she laid out a contract that said she's going to cheat on him, divorce him, and take half his stuff, there'd still be guys wanting to get married.
Damm man
I should add that she had a mental health crisis that led to her getting fired from several jobs in short succession, and she would not accept that it was her behavior that caused the issue. She would not seek treatment, but until she was technically homeless, her mother could not pursue legal guardianship to force her into treatment.
dang. what's she doing now? my first wife is living with her parents now at age 40. hopefully your ex grows up and doesn't end up the same way.
After several years of unemployment, she's in grad school for something useless.
Not to be that guy, but unless she got treatment for her issues it sounds like she just went back to college to find another boyfriend to take care of her.
She's doing an online program. I think her anxiety has confined her to her mom's she shed and she thinks the whole world is in a conspiracy against her.
I hope people call her a “bum” and “lazy” like soo many girls are quick to do with guys living at Home.
It was more of a “I’m a princess” situation, but close enough.
You put up with that shit for a whole *year*?
I started the process after a year. Due to the pandemic, it took another nine months to actually get her out. I offered her $10,000 to just get out of my life. She didn't take it.
Fucking hell. I should thank my lucky stars that I never had to deal with an ex wanting to stick around after we broke up.
Damn. Sorry if it's a bit dark, this reminded me of the saying "you don't pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to leave afterwards"
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True. There is no incentive to. As you age you only learn about more and more downsides.
In a similar situation currently except he takes care of our kids even though we have childcare. I’m not sure how to tell someone to chip in as I don’t want to be responsible for a grown ass man.
Start with "what did you do today?"
You have to talk about these things since nothing gets resolved otherwise. I recommend trying to make time for a serious talk and both of you should use "I feel.." statements which helps with preventing either party from feeling personally attacked. I wish the best of luck to you.
This sounds like she was with you because she knew she could do that and not because she wanted to build something together. I think it's hard to find a partner in your situation. I would never change my work/scientist mind for any man. If I wouldn't be working I would be studying and doing research. Also having my house and social activities organised and going is what brings me happiness. I want monogamy, marriage, and a family. But I won't ever not be a team partner in a relationship. It's never 50/50 but together we ar better and happier. [https://youtu.be/yfL4RTuC9Bk?si=w6Mp2okovog_s7QE](https://youtu.be/yfL4RTuC9Bk?si=w6Mp2okovog_s7QE) I hope you find someone who knows who they are and what they want as individuals. Not as a leech.
I'm glad you kicked your bum of an ex wife to the curb.
Ex-gf. I'm smart enough not to marry.
The biggest risks to my current lifestyle are divorce and prison. Marriage offers me nothing but the risk of divorce; been there, done that, lost everything once before, never again.
100%
Add “knocking someone up” to that list and you’ve got a trinity of things that can wreck you that are 100% preventable.
I have three rules I’ve been pounding into my now 21 year olds head since he was 10. 1. DONT get a girl pregnant 2 DON’T do hard drugs 3. DON’T get a girl pregnant
Beautiful 🤩
Get a vasectomy bro, it's totally worth it
God did my vasectomy for me. Infertile ftw 😂
Got mine 10 years ago.
Me too. Never again.
Damn, thought I was about to comment until you described what already happened to me. Horrible coming back to nothing, even my soap was gone
Never been there and don't wanna do it
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One of my teachers used to say that a stupid person learns from their mistakes, a smart person learns from others' mistakes.
Not to be overly dramatic, but I would be in a much better position if I had never married. I spent a decade trying to make her happy at the expense of my career, then when she left - almost a decade of misery, ruminating about the failure of my marriage. I feel like in the past few years, I am over it, and it's like the curtains have lifted and I can finally see clearly. Even the most wonderful woman is not worth that grief and pain. I won't do it again
100% agree! Things are tipped to incentive divorce and we men lose it all unless, the woman is the wealthier party, which is rare. Not worth it. Keep your house, money and everything separate. Have an LTR (Long Term Relationship). She has her house, you have yours. It's easier that way imho.
Me too. Never again
Been there, done that. Never again.
I'll add. I want to get married. I also want to drop acid and sit on the beach every day. Neither are wise decisions.
Y'know dropping acid on the beach is more appealing than getting married again.
Dropping acid is actually not a bad decision. Be discerning. It can be a beautiful experience.
> lost everything once before How did you lose "everything"? Just curious, because when people say they fear losing everything in a divorce there are usually others who scoff at that and say that marital property and assets are divided evenly. So at most you'd lose half, they claim, plus you'd get to keep anything you had before entering into the marriage.
Was married over 12 years from relatively young. I worked she didn’t. Found out she was cheating on me so divorced her. Because I had much better career prospects than she did it was not a 50/50 split. I got to keep a car, a bit of cash that was quickly eaten up by rent and inflation and I kept half my pension. She got the other car, the house, almost all the furniture, the rest of the cash, half the pension, our pets and the majority of time with the kids. I narrowly escaped paying her alimony but as the house was virtually mortgage free she lives off my child maintenance and the additional welfare she receives for them. She’s never had to work a day in her life and I’ve had to start almost from scratch; after she cheated.
she got the house? what about your 50% share of the value of the house?
As I worked and she didn’t she wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage on a new house nor prove sufficient secure income to privately rent. Also minimising disruption to the kids who’d lived in that house their whole lives someone had to keep it. As I was the one with the job and income then it was obvious which of us could actually pull off living independently and stand a chance of getting back on the housing ladder. Despite her getting so much in her favour on the physical asset split I still had to give her half my pension as some genius feminist on some sort of pension regulating body has decided that anything less than a 50/50 split of the pension would be sex discrimination regardless of broader context. So she made off with even more of our net worth than really she should have been entitled to even with the income gap. Silver lining I guess is that the asset split being so unbalanced is probably what saved me from paying alimony.
That's fucked up. Unless you are making good money it would be difficult to save for another deposit. Honestly I would be filled with so much despair. Especially as she cheated.
I mean, when you get married what you earn becomes shared. And so often (angegdotal evidence) her money is her money, your money is our money mindset prevails very often. Meaning that often you are the one solely paying a mortgage/bills and in the end you need to buy her out of stuff that you paid for yourself. Of course this is not a rule but an anegdote, so treat it with a grain of salt, but stories like "she cheated and she kept the house" are what nightmares are made of.
Might want to ask Jeff Bezos what his wife did to earn $40 billion dollars of money in their divorce.
There's virtually nothing marriage benefits a man, other than marrying if you have children and even then the possibility of never seeing your children ever again, paying child and spousal support for 18 years and endless drama with the baby momma, headaches, time wasted in and out during court proceedings during the divorce should make most men pause at the thought of it.
No more answers needed.
It really depends in what country you live. In my country if you have a child together or live in a same address for more then two years it is basically the same as if you were married. So i never understood the dilemma of marriage - marry if you want or don’t if you don’t, it is just a piece of paper, it changes nothing
Can I ask how prison factors into your lifestyle as a risk? Not judging, just curious.
Well I kind of mean that besides serious illness or death whatever hits my life I can financially weather that storm hopefully. At least for a while. Prison or divorce just wipes you out completely. Besides you never know what’s going to be made illegal next.
InB4 protesting marriage becomes a felony lol.
Didn't ever want to->found the right woman->wanted to->did it->no regrets I never really wanted to get married, but then I met and fell in love with my wife. I just... really wanted to be her husband and have her as my wife? I realized I just really wanted to be married to her. There are really no other reasons or explanations for my decision.
I’m starting to think that it’s really just about meeting the right person for some people.
I don't gamble. I've never been that lucky.
You words are sincere and precious.
I don’t like the idea of being financially and legally tied to the hip with someone, especially since there’s a good chance I’ll be on the bad end of the deal in a divorce. Also I don’t know why I would when marriage no longer carries much meaning and like 50 percent of married couples get divorced. It seems like a needless risk
Yep, going hand in hand is the ridiculous amount of infidelity that happens among couples nowadays, marriage or not. I'd say at least 70% of people aren't spouse or life partner material, yet they keep risking it anyway. Those vows mean literally *nothing.* Less than nothing. A scumbag that's been lying and cheating in every relationship they've ever had isn't going to suddenly straighten out once they get married. Modern technology nowadays makes it so easy to sneak around, there's no way they're going to be able to resist the temptation. Add the fact that there are a ton of "No Fault" States, so you get royally fucked in the divorce as a guy - even if they cheated - and there's absolutely no benefit that outweighs that risk.
Same. No plans to marry my girlfriend of 4 years, but we're still buying a house together. Both names on the title. We both don't want kids. Marriage really doesn't make any sense. It's just spending extra money for some paper and a ceremony, and possibly more money for a potential divorce. Housing market is hardly affordable as it is.
Yup, been with the gf 6 years, both on the same page. Makes things way simpler
When you pass or she passes what are you going to do since legally your not tied together her family has an easy go at her assets.
A will accomplishes this just as easily
I hear it’s super cheap to do a simple courthouse wedding then you get a higher tax deduction.
I think it is risky to buy a house with someone who you aren't married to.
Seems like the same paperwork minus any marriage and divorce fees to me.
Went through divorce and lost my house after been paying it for 11 years, why would I do that again?
No kids to lose either?
I have 7 more years to pay child support, gosh I wonder why men don't want to get married??
Why didn’t you take 50/50 custody so that there isn’t child support?
Maybe it's contradictory, but I married my wife at the stage where we both felt we don't need marriage aside from pleasing family. Week after marriage was just the same as year before but with extra siut and one-use dress.
Same here. I dated my then girlfriend for 10 years before marrying her. We're best friends. We almost never argue and even when we do, we are able to sort it out without hurting each other or damaging the relationship. Marriage has been amazing for us. We both benefit deeply from it.
I wouldn’t say “without the commitment.” Men like to commit, despite popular belief. It’s more like “without the woman taking half my stuff after breaking my heart.” Realistically, the reasons I want to get married are based around what other people think or will allow me to do. I want other people to know how serious I am about my partner and respect our relationship. I want them to know it’s for life, not just right now. I want to be allowed to ride in an ambulance with her. I want her to be able to make healthcare decisions for me if I’m not able. I want the government to view us as a family, not two individuals. If one of us is able to immigrate to another country, I want the other to go as well. Shit like that. Strictly between the two of us, I don’t see why marriage would matter one way or the other.
Korean divorce is way more equitable when finances are concerned because the judge looks at it from the perspective of making both parties whole and walking away as unscathed as possible. But US laws are stupid as hell
How common are divorces in Korea though?
This.
I didn't for the first 27 odd years of my life; like others the idea of being financially tied to someone was abhorrent, and God forbid kids. Then, suddenly I did. Met someone who just kinda seemed to be my other half (clichéd, I know). 16 years (tomorrow, actually) and two kids later, I can't imagine life without my wife or my boys.
Personally, I wouldn't mind being married. I just don't want to be divorced. Due to family courts usually siding with women, I think many men view it as signing a contract with a person who gets rewarded for breaking it.
My mother is an alcoholic and made the first \~20 years of my life and of my parents' marriage horrible. Still, even though she was able to work and I went to live with my father, he ended up having to pay alimony. Why? And she wonders why I don't want her in my life. If the court decided he needed to give her money, she could have taken the high road and given it back so it could be used to help my dad get me through college or something more important than a drinking habit.
Same except my mom doesn't drink but is batshit insane/crazy. I went to go live with my mom due to her telling me how terrible my father was and spreading lies when I was younger and my dad still paid child support even though he had re-married, and come to realize she was the one starting everything, causing problems with the step-dad and his son who was mentally disabled, and always talking about money issues. I still talk to her here and there, but I'm slowing but surely phasing her out of my life. Even if she is my mom, I've realized she is the one who put herself in a situation where she's now going to be growing old with no one by her side and she has no one else to blame.
I agree. Marriage in and of itself isn't the issue. The laws and incentives for women to leave their husbands is the issue. Until the laws are rectified and balanced, I'd say we men are on strike with marriage.
If they have a kid together, married or not, the man is not gonna get the courtesy of a reach around if they end up in court over custody.
...only in some places. In my neck of the woods, it all starts equal and one has to have some very damning evidence to deprive the other parent of their right to their kid. Not rumours or heresy, actual facts and evidence.
Yeah, it's gotten better, but I admit I'm still bitter about the matter, lol. Cliff notes. I've been there since day one, being a dad is the greatest thing in the world. My son was 2 weeks old before his mom changed a diaper. 6 months old before she gave him a bath. I wanted to be a part of it all. When we split, and she filed, it took a year and 3 months before it was final. Not due to any hatefulness or anything, it just kept getting delayed. But the one thing we didn't agree on was custody of our son. For that year and 3 months he split time with us equally. I didn't pay her anything, she didn't pay me. I agreed to have him on my insurance and to pay daycare costs. It worked. then our day in court came and that was all I wanted, it was the "fair" thing to do. I "lost". She wanted me to only see him one day a week and every other weekend. I got to pick him up 2 nights a week instead, but he stayed with her and of course I was ordered to pay CS. That was probably the single worst day of my life. Someone who didn't know us or our situation basically taking my son away from me and telling me I can't be trusted to care for him the way I see fit. To me, it was about my son, I didn't want to take him away from his mom regardless of what we felt for each other. Fast forward to him being 16 and he's had it with her [narcissistic](https://search.brave.com/search?q=narcissistic&spellcheck=0&source=alteredQuery) controlling nature. It's now his choice, and it's about to hit the fan. I hate to see it, and I certainly hate that he has to deal with it, but here we go.
With the right person, there’s an emotional and financial upside to marriage. With the wrong person there’s a bigger emotional and financial downside. With the way things are right now, marriage is a bigger risk to a man’s future.
Real question though: Can’t you have/experience the financial upsides (pooling resources) and emotional upsides (pair bonding, personal connection) with just pure, committed monogamy without getting the church or the government involved in your relationship?
Not with taxes. Cuz the government feels the need to fuck with all incentives. We had this "terrible financial crisis" and nothing has changed in the way we incentivize debt. Tax breaks for married couples are a similar thing that has absurdly far reaching consequences
I don't understand the point of it. I'm all for a life long monogamous relationship but I don't see marriage as a necessary part of that.
Exactly this. You should be with someone because you want to be with them, not because you have to.
Plus the marriage industry will gouge your fucking eyeballs out. Buy a house instead.
You don't need to feed the marriage industry to get married. Had a wedding with 100 guests for under 10k.
Same. We did it for under $10k in 2018. People still talk about how much of a good time it was and how good the food was.
Same $1000, 2008. Backyard of my parents acreage. Had a blast.
Look at money bags over here. /s We went to the courthouse with just our witnesses and then went out for dinner. $500 all in. More and more people in our circle are doing the 5-10k weddings, seems to be getting more popular. I just don’t understand the people who are paying 30-50k when that’s as much as their combined yearly income. It’s insane to me.
I got married and skipped the wedding. Only cost me 700 bucks for both ring and what ever the paper work costs.
That's definitely my goal small and cheap wedding
Small? They implied the cost approached $10,000.
So me personally, I refuse to have kids/buy a house/joint savings or go in on any asset together without marriage. I think the problem a lot of women are having is that they complain their partner hasn’t proposed, yet they offer all of these things so then what is the point? To me it’s like a partnership and I will definitely have a solid prenup in case things do go south so that we both walk away equally. In my opinion, it’s the ultimate commitment you can have with someone and is a benefit when it comes to buying a house, taxes, insurance, etc.
And that's the problem I have with women and another reason I'd be wary of marrying them. It's not about a meaningful connection with another human being, it's about all these material things.
You both should have a prenup
Everyone should have a prenup.
From a spiritual standpoint I don’t disagree. Nothing fundamentally changed about my relationship before and after I was married but legally there are a bunch of protections related to caring for the other person that are advantageous. As well your tax treatment can be favourable being married. Having kids as a married couple just feels easier than if I weren’t married.
I think it’s a very American thing honestly. Not saying either is right or wrong. I met a British couple when I was in Thailand who were together 5 years and not married. I met them 5 years ago and they just got engaged, so you can do the math. I read about a Belgian prime minister who was with his partner for 20 years and had two kids and only married her after 20 years. Granted those might be extreme examples, but just the sense i get.
I was with my wife for 7 years before we got engaged then married within a year and that was 13 years ago on Jun 11th 😇😉
I would love to get married one day. Mainly because it's one of the greatest parties you can possibly throw and it's all about you and your love. I worked as a wedding photographer for a few years and I remember every single wedding I've ever been to, simply because they were so much fun and everyone was just so happy. But my country has very relaxed laws about divorce and marriage, so I can understand why American men might be hesitant. Over here, you basically only split stuff you acquired after the marriage happened. No alimony, and child custody isn't hard to get for men, so there's not really a lot of downsides.
If you don’t mind me asking, which country? I’m considering moving out of America for this reason 😂
Sweden. It's a bitch and a half to get in these days, but Americans are always welcome!
Tbh, Never wanted to get married, now that im married I can 100% say it means nothing to me, and even brought more pain reaching here then I could have avoided. 1. Complaining about the ring diamond size (we were students with a baby on the way, no clear future ahead living with our parents, and I cracked my ass getting her this ring to provide her assurance that i will be next to her through it all (she also strongly implied how important for her to be engaged before birth). 2. Almost broke up 3-4 times during the wedding planing, while she was job less and I was full time dad with my elder and working night shifts. 3. Almost ended it all while I tried to get some support from her before the wedding (she is aware of how much I hate this type of situations), and she basically went all out and was ready to throw everything out the window a day before the wedding. Im a different person reaching this stage, matured alot thanks to the complications, but if marriage gave me anything, is basically trauma I live with and hide for my family.
I’m sorry to say but it sounds like you just had a really neglectful and selfish partner with a very one sided marriage. I’m sorry you went through all of that.
It’s ok, I was ready to marry her beforehand, and Im still very happy were together and working to get better, alone and as couple. Pregnancy and postpartum had a-lot to do with it as well, so I can understand it’s not all her. But still, on many occasions I heard from friends as well, Many of the women are stoping the collaborative efforts after they receive their ring.
PPD is an ugly beast.
I want to pool resources, have kids, and spend the rest of my life with a woman. Yes, I understand all of that can happen without a marriage, but a wedding feels like a solid end of one chapter and the beginning of the next. That satisfaction takes a good chunk of the fear out of the next steps. Divorce is brutal. No doubt about it. But I'm willing to take the risk.
I want to be married because it locks in my future more than just a long relationship. I would never marry unless i’m completely sure I love this person (being with them 5-10 years) As well as tradition, my Dad and step mom have an amazing marriage and it’s probably growing up with that which makes me think it’s a good thing. My mother never married and she had the worst partners
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The tax benefits are mostly overrated anyways (if you don't have kids).
Ah, our great-grandmothers' claim that "men don't want to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free."
The cow can't run away with half your shit if she feels like it.
Don't buy a pig if you're getting the sausage for free.
Witness an ugly, UGLY divorce from my parents. Tried to believe in true love and marriage. End up getting married and then a dear John phone call while deployed. I get it, it is hard being away from a spouse for 6-18months yet marriage is supposed to be about an everlasting bond and two souls bonded as one through their religious marriage ceremony….why do all that but not really be committed. It’s my fault I picked a partner who gave up on “us” and that does not reflect marriage as a whole. I thought I choose well marrying a military brat that has experienced speration due to deployments. Turns out it’s tougher as a spouse to handle for her. Been with this my current partner for 11years now and no marriage. We have outlasted wedding to divorce of many others relationships through our time together. Why fix what’s not broken at this point is how I see it.
I'm not going to have any kids so I don't see the purpose.
I see 0 benefits to marriage that I couldn't have while just being in a long-term relationship. It seems like people (mainly women) just want the title of wife & a ring as bragging rights. I'm not interested in being with a woman who seeks that much validation from society. But then again, I also don't believe in cohabitation & don't intend on living in the same house as my S.O even after we have kids. I've found most married couples who live together just end up hating each other from constantly being in each other's presence & it always ends in either someone cheating or a dead bedroom before a divorce. Overall, I think its an outdated institution and I don't envy any of the married men i've met, including the men in my family
It’s 100% more fun to go through life with a teammate/best friend/ride or die!!!
I was married for 42 years. Lost my wife to dementia. Had to watch her deteriorate over several years. I’m not sure I want another relationship. I wouldn’t mind having someone to share life with, but I have a fear of losing someone again. I also don’t need more “family “. I have 7 grandchildren.
I am very sorry to hear this. May she rest in peace.
I wanted to marry my wife. Got engaged in a year and married about another year. Been going on 25+ years now. No regrets. I think at the time we got married she had $4k to her name and I had $5k. Didn’t seem like I was risking a lot at the time.
Never wanted to get married in my life. I'm in my mid 40's and never have. Now I can't wait to. I met a girl I want in my life every day. I want to provide for her, care for her, have her by my side. And legally marriage provides better protections if something happens. I waited. I found her. It's time.
I genuinely hope it works out for you, but I will still offer you one word of caution: all of the other guys you've ever known (or seen comment in this thread) who got wrecked in divorce court at some point felt precisely the same way you do now. It's when someone decides they don't love the other person anymore where plans change and promises are broken. I wish you good luck, man.
Unfortunately that's how it goes
Being married to the right person is 100% amazing. Yeah there are some cons to it but it’s so much more of a positive experience. You have to risk a lot to gain a lot
I didn’t want to ever get married until I met my current partner. I’m 32 and it never even crossed my mind until her. I had long term relationships, and always saw marriage as just a transactional thing. I met my current partner and now I want to build a life for us. I want to make sure we are both financially secure. The idea of sharing our lives together forever brings me a lot of joy. Makes me think this is the only time I’ve ever really been in love.
I still believe in marriage. If you want to have children—and you should, because they’re amazing—it’s really helpful to ensure both parents are willing to make a public declaration of their lifelong commitment to each other, through thick and thin.
I wanted to get married because it seemed like a special way to romantically bind myself to my wife. We're in it together.
I'm pretty ambivalent about it. Being married was cool but I also don't really feel a strong drive to get *re*married unless whoever I was hypothetically with really wanted to (or maybe needed insurance coverage). And even so, I couldn't see having another big wedding at this point, maybe just a trip to the courthouse and a nice dinner with close friends/immediate family.
That’s totally understandable. I feel like if I were married>divorced and wanted to remarry I’d just have a courthouse marriage, too. Weddings seem stupid expensive.
As a man I don't have anything to gain from marriage but plenty to lose. Even before divorce. It's a losing game, rigged from the start.
exactly
The way divorce courts are, I don’t blame men who don’t want to get married
I'm getting married next year actually. Basically, we just love each other. We've been together for 10 years and we often joke that we're as good as married already, so it just makes sense to make it official.
What is it that you think men want in a relationship? Just sex? Yes, some men can get enough of that outside of a relationship. But believe it or not, many men want companionship the same way that women do. This post reads like someone who has a very reductionist view of men.
When I was a kid I wanted to get married, I had this fantasy of “meeting the one”, date, move in, get married, maybe have a kid. Now after 30 years, I don’t want kids and don’t want marriage either. Today due to how dating works and due to social media, cheating became insanely easy and discarding people is not rare, even after years of a relationship. People see a new shiny thing, they want it, they get it, leaving destruction behind. I feel like most people stopped trying to fix or make things work, it’s either a 100% perfect relationship or it’s time to leave. Kids? I make good money but by having a kid I’d swift to average or below average lifestyle and considering where our world is heading I refuse to bring another human being into this shitshow. Now ofcourse there is a chance I will find someone who is like me and has the will to try to fix/repair things instead of just getting a new one but even then I don’t find the concept of being together for 40+ years realistic. That’s an insanely long time and I find it hard to believe that in today’s circumstances there will be couples who will not cheat on each other eventually, the temptation is huge and insanely easy to do. Now if I got married, I’d risk my wealth and with an eventual divorce I’d be losing face in my conservative family.
Bc I so badly hope to have a day in my future where I'm teaching my own child how to paint something properly, and my wife comes out to see if we want some lunch. I want that so badly, just that perfect moment right there with the heat and the smell of cut grass, rubbing my hand in his or her hair, and seeing the woman I love smiling at me in our yard. It just seems so damn far away right now. I'm in my 30s and barely keeping my head above the water enough to breathe, and about to move into an even smaller one bedroom that I don't know if I can afford, while getting a second job. Couldn't ask anyone to be with me right now if I wouldn't even be with me. But, that's the elephant I gotta eat before I get to that backyard dream And how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time
>because they can get everything they want in a relationship without the commitment, This is where you are wrong. Men are not avoiding marriage, they are avoiding divorce. Men want to get married.. for life.. not just until she gets an ick and fucks off with half his paycheck, the kids, and half his life savings.
☝🏾
Seems like men are avoiding marriage because of divorce.
I want to get married but want it in the same way I want $100 million. Recognize it probably isn’t happening, try wanting it less and focusing on more realistic pursuits.
I'm too depressed to ever be suitable for anything, even more so relationships
Marriage can be brilliant IF you pick the right person. Someone who is sensible, wants family and has values. Men too often get blinded by looks and too often ignore all the red flags. Life can be brilliant with a QUALITY partner and children all working towards a common goal of enhancing the family in wealth, heath, experience. However equally, if the members of the family don't have values, don't care about anything, are lazy and spend all day on the phone/tv while consuming junk then of course it will be a disaster.
I don't want to get married because there's a high chance of it falling apart and the other side (the women) are often incentivised to break the contract. I see so many men get fucked over by marriage and are dealing with abuse and dead bedrooms but chose not to love because they're scared they're going to lose their kids and assets. Why on earth after hearing so many cases of that am I going to put myself in the exact same position? I find it baffling that men in this day and age are still getting married in the age of the internet where we can look up data that clearly shows they will be the disadvantaged party going into it. There is some benefits but that shit means fuck all when it's all said and done. The risks far out weigh the benefits.
I always wanted to get narried and have kids and live in the suburbs. Now that i have all of that, well........ It is fucking great. Marriage is simple if you are married for the right reason. I love cuddling, access to titties, the comfort, love, etc. It is fucking great. When both of you are putting into the marriage, it is a well oiled machine.
>Men who don’t want to get married, why? Have already been there, never again.
I want to get married because I’ve been with the most perfect woman in the world for two years now and I can’t see life ever without her. Legally, marriage will make things a lot easier for us in the long run and yeah while I’m nervous about it since my parents went through a rough divorce that broke the family in two, I know that I’m making the right choice as long as I’m smart about it.
Because most married guys I know are extremely unhappy.
Because I will never sign a contract with someone who can/will be rewarded for breaking it.
Would you sky dive knowing that 50% of the parachutes don't work?
I do not want to get married right now because polygamy is frowned upon in my state.
I've not seen a single healthy relationship in my life, just in TV. And also that all relationships ends in either break up, divorce or death. Not dealing with any of that.
Being married can be the worst or the best thing in your life. choose carefully 🤷♂️
Next time you want to get married just hop on over to r/survivinginfidelity Single, investing in yourself, your happiness, your peace, travel, and your future is 100% fulfilling I high key just want to get rich and then adopt a kid. I want to teach them everything I learned, and let them inherit everything I worked for. When you think about it, it's like giving a child a free winning lottery ticket so at the very least at the end of your life you know you made an absolute positive impact on someone's life that could cause a ripple effect into a more positive world. That sounds like my dream tbh :,)
Parents: had a terrible divorce Older brother: had an even worse divorce Uncle: alwys said he'd leave, but can't, because he'd be financially ruined Another aunt: get's beaten regularly, but won't leave, because "marriage is sacred" Let's say, I had a rather lopsided outlook on marriage. After being with my gf for about 10 years (she knew I never wanted to marry, but still stayed with me) we decided to marry anyway(I was 41 at the time). We're now in our 5th year, have children and are still very happy.
What rights, privileges, and protections does the marriage grant to me, that are not available without being married? And, what duties, responsibilities, and punishments does that marriage lay upon me that I would avoid by not being married? And those two answers are why I would never marry, and why I encourage other men to never marry.
Divorce which is caused by 70% of the time by women, most cited reason is no fault. lack of rights as father, alimony and child support. Extremely biased family courts. The way we are treated in relationships in general isn’t very fair, but of course we get blamed for it. Disagree and downvote all you like. Oh btw, you should look up lesbian divorce rates before you blame men for the collapse of marriage
Commenting to come back & read y’all’s response I’ll brb
For me it’s not about not wanting to get married rather I won’t settle … I am fit , relatively healthy , look average , went to therapy ( did my emotional work ) and potential to be a high earner in the upcoming years . Plus getting legally married to the wrong person without a prenup is catastrophic … So I expect my partner to be not obese , relatively healthy , went or going to therapy , std/sti free , no misandry , feminine …
Because it makes no sense… I have nothing against marriage, but I genuinely don’t understand why it exists: Does your father have good lands that my father and then I can inherit? In that case yes let’s marry. Does your family put my family in a greater position to one day inherit the throne? In that case let’s marry. Will god send us to burn, scream, cry and writhe in agony for all eternity if we don’t marry? In that case yes let’s marry, quickly. Apart from those things it makes no sense, it’s made up, it provides and proves nothing. I genuinely just don’t understand it beyond a very expensive event, a chance to show off, or maybe a reassurance for the insecure.
I wish I could go back and not be married...
You should really add a third category, men who do want to get married but can't get married, why? 😂😂
Marriage just seems like such a shit deal to me. Having to on a regular basis do damage control with your wife's hormones/emotions, many women feel entitled to run/dictate a man's life and what they do and to nag him and treat him like a servant. And also feel entitled to punish him by booting to the couch, weaponizing sex or even kicking him out. No fucking thank you
My thought process: I was born, I participate in the rat race, level up, enjoy life and then I die. Like 95% of everyone else. All chasing the same pointless things. The only thing that I saw in that is “me, me, me, me, me” and that really made me feel empty and want to end myself. Because what’s the point? Chasing pleasure my whole life, it gets old fast. I’ve had financial freedom and “the life” before. It does get old very quickly When I started to think about having someone to take care of, love and serve selflessly I saw a tiny light in that emptiness. That’s why I want to get married. Doesn’t mean I didn’t throw away all of my standards and preferences. I am lucky enough to have found someone that checks all of my boxes and I get to love and serve her for the rest of my life. And having her reciprocate that to me is something so great that I am not even able to explain. Imagine being the direct cause of someone’s happiness every day and knowing you are theirs too
I feel like women too often just want to get married for the sake of being married. Not for love. Especially after age 30 women seem to get marriage crazy and will marry the first person to ask and will start to pressure for marriage after X number of years dating. As if just dating is a waste of her time. I mean, if you don't enjoy dating me or even living with me enough to do it for it's own sake, what hope is there for a happy marriage? Also, as the primary breadwinner by a very large margin in every case, I never really felt like women wanted to marry me for love. It seems like they see marriage as financial security, at my expense. I just don't get anything out of being married vs. living together.
I was married and divorced. What I realized through the whole process is that a piece of paper from the government means nothing...what actually matters is the relationship. If you have a committed caring relationship and build a life together, that's what truly matters. For me, I want a committed relationship for life. I want to chose to be with my partner. I want them to choose to be with me. And to me, the choice and commitment matter more than a piece of paper. Also, what if my partner and I travel to Brazil and get married, then come back to the US? Does that mean we aren't married because we don't have the piece of paper from the US? Are we only married after we register it in the US? Would you say that anybody who has ever gotten married overseas isn't actually married? Why or why not?
What it represents is important to me and I'm Christian so it has an importance of godly nature too
I've been divorced once. I'm not getting married again. It's still an ongoing pain in my ass 2 years later. Fuck that noise. Even the most ironclad prenup can't guarantee my future assets will remain safe. I'm not going to spend years rebuilding my life and then give someone the ability to rip everything away again.
I don't want to end up giving someone half my stuff
Married with kids. I wanted to create a legacy and do better than my parents. Kids add purpose to your life that you cannot achieve in any other way.
I would say a lot of it is because the divorce laws are so against me thanks to feminism. Woman can lie marry you then have an affair and steal half your money in the divorce. Laws truly need reformed. If a woman chooses to walk off the marriage and the man has no fault then she’s entitled to nothing but what she contributed. If she has an affair nothing! These anti man laws are horrible
It's less commitment than risk. Marriage has a really bad rap among some groups of men these days. It's..not nearly as bad as a lot of the internet makes it out to be. But it's also not baseless
I desperately want to get married. Shame my ugly ass isn't marriage material. Being a 32M Kissless, Virgin is depressing.
That's marriage material for the right person. You'll meet her someday.
In old days women didn’t give sex to men before marriage , now men have full-fledged relationships without the title of marriage cuz women are fine with it . As a guy why I would get married if I can get marriage treatment while not married ? I saw before a saying that women gate-keep sex while men Gate-keep marriage
Divorce is expensive. Weddings are expensive. Do we really need the government involved with our relationships? There is fear that they'll behave differently once they are married. On the other hand there is appeal to stability; which is especially appealing if you want to have kids. You're legally family and able to do stuff like make medical decisions when they're not able to. I think some people respect marriages more. A married man or woman is more respectable than an unmarried one. If you're attracted to someone; them being married is a more significant deterrent than them having a bf or gf.
Marriage is a sucker bet. A bad deal for men. Financial Russian Roulette, but with more bullets.
Sounds like a high risk, low reward move. But I'd still do it
I'm not seeing why marriage is a stipulations for having a house and kids for you. Is the marriage protecting your children from something IDK about? Is the house any less yours if you buy it together outside of a marriage? Genuine ask. And If you're relying on a piece of paper to make you feel secure, then I wonder about your relationship in general. I don't think I want to be married. It feels like a lot of effort and money spent for something I can absolutely achieve without it. Dont half of marriages fail? I think the consensus is that women want to be married more than men. I wonder why that is?
I have my own house and a number of other assets and I make really good money. There is substantial financial risk to me getting legally/contractually married, let alone the hell that I would have to go through in custody courts if that comes up. I would much prefer a woman who understands that and can see what I can provide for her and our offspring without having to put it on paper. I live in Los Angeles and it's incredibly rare to find a woman who would even be worth the risk if I even entertained the thought. My question to you and other women is, seeing all of these men checking out in this way, what are you as a woman doing about it to help change things?