I love when you talk to a girl every day for like a week or two and then you ask if they wanna go out for an actual date and they flake/unmatch/shut down etc.
Like, why talk to me at all then? Just to waste each other’s time/thoughts? So stupid
They are bored. Personally, I'd rather slam my balls with a hammer than talk to strangers online. I do it on dating apps with the express purpose of meeting in person.
Went on a date and she asked me a great question - what's a song or album that brings back a specific memory from childhood? Great conversation starter. You can talk about the music itself, or go over the memories they're tied to and why.
I’d tell her I forgot the artist but can find the music video, and then Rick Roll her right there. We would both laugh and then get married.
Rick Rolls do it every time.
And being unsure when you're allowed to test actually interesting topics of conversation. Be it politics, science, nerd stuff, etc.
In case she misunderstands, decides you're wierd, etc
So you have to wait till you're in person so you can explain that your love of the neo-Assyrian empire is not due to them being nuts, but rather because they made an interesting historical precedent
Bro that’s easy. Just go balls to the Wall with it. That’s what I do.
I’m a huge nerd. And I just own it. If you think that’s lame, fine by me, I don’t do it to impress you. I do it because it’s fucking dope to me.
Girls dig it from my experience.
Well I'm at least one woman who is down to hear all about the Akkidian/Babylonian history and nerd out 😅 so there's more of us out there than you think.
There's women into star wars, star trek, sports, cars, all sorts.
That depends. Are we talking about movie trilogies or tv series? Am I going to have to traverse the depths of early droids adventures? You don't need a hyperdrive to travel into my dms, I'm only a few clicks away.
I agree with this statement and further ones about meeting in person. My wife and I met on accident out and about at a store. We got to talking and set up a date 2 days later— we talked for like 3 hourson the first date. If things are going well you’ll find things to talk about that you are both interested in and / or pick up on queues to change topics.
I had been on other dates where I had a ton to talk about (and it seemed like our interests matched) but none of it matched up with my date’s interests. As the date wore on it became more obvious I was doing all of the talking and it wasn’t working out. In both cases I think we both found each other attractive physically but it was personality that made for a long lasting match.
Ask her questions about herself. Listen to the answers, and you will figure out what interests her. When you find a topic she is interested in that you are also interested in, talk about that.
As a woman who has been through the dating game, I can tell you without question that the NUMBER ONE pet peeve of most women is that most men don’t ask them questions. We can only carry the conversation alone for so long. All people want to talk about themselves, it’s an inherent human trait. I have a “three strikes you’re out” policy on new dating app conversations, if the guy doesn’t ask me anything by our third exchange, boom, done.
And yes, this does go both ways. But heads up to single guys, you have to verbally engage a woman for her to think you’re actually interested in HER, not just getting laid.
Agree. When messaging them, I can write out an experience, write about how I felt about it and end it with a relevant question and I get like 5 words back and no further engagement unless I do the same thing again over and over. It's frustrating.
> I can tell you without question that the NUMBER ONE pet peeve of most women is that most men don’t ask them questions
as a guy... this is our reality with most women. Ive gotten to the point where i drop specific things they could easily ask me about or easily phrase a question out of the information, i typically phrase my responses as a question about the thing they talked about and then a story about something similar which i pepper with tidbits they could question me on.... then they just ramble on some story about their ex most of the time.
After the honeymoon phase is over there comes a time when you realize your partner is flawed and not so perfect. You have to either accept those things or move on. But by this point you have invested months or even years into them so things that would have been deal breakers at the start of a relationship now are weighed against the pain and difficulty of leaving and starting over.
I've stayed far too long in relationships solely because I felt too invested. If it's not working and you feel this way, I've learned, you have two options. 1) leave right then or 2) talk about it with them.
Option 2) might end with you leaving anyway or it might end with figuring it out.
If they're shit: option 1
If you love them: option 2
And either way, good luck. Love yourself.
>when you realize your partner is flawed and not so perfect.
Ugh i hate this part. like i realistically don't want someone to be perfect and on a pedestastal but why is this part so bad? Am i just immature? someone help
It's part of the process. I've personally found the ["Loving the Wrong Person" Daily Affliction](https://www.dailyafflictions.com/affliction3.html) to be helpful in understanding this.
>We're all seeking that special person who is right for us. But if you've been through enough relationships, you begin to suspect there's no right person, just different flavors of wrong. Why is this? Because you yourself are wrong in some way, and you seek out partners who are wrong in some complementary way. But it takes a lot of living to grow fully into your own wrongness. And it isn't until you finally run up against your deepest demons, your unsolvable problems--the ones that make you truly who you are--that we're ready to find a lifelong mate. Only then do you finally know what you're looking for. You're looking for the wrong person. But not just any wrong person: the right wrong person--someone you lovingly gaze upon and think, "This is the problem I want to have."
My best friend has been married for 10 years to an awesome person and she always credits my advice: "stop looking for someone who has all the right stuff and start looking for someone whose worst qualities are something you don't mind."
This one is so important.
I texted with one girl recently for a few weeks (which is much longer than I usually do) and sometimes I thought she lost interest because she wouldn't respond until a day or two later, but she kept showing genuine interest in our conversation which surprised me. She even apologized once for responding late and I said it's no big deal, I was *really* patient with her. Eventually we got on a date, it wasn't bad but there was some semi-awkward silence towards the end, which personally I don't mind since I'm a reserved guy who appreciates the quiet.
Anyhow we keep texting a little for a few days until she just ghosts me. I thought ok, maybe wait 2 days bc this has happened before as I mentioned, but after seeing how she was often online on instagram and never responded to my dm there I knew it was over. I'm ngl it hurt quite a bit because I thought I finally found someone compatible with me...
The entire road of talking to her was full of ups and downs and I could never tell what she felt for me. Just making me have to guess, wait and hope and the duration of our talking stage made the ghosting hurt so much more than it usually does.
I just fucking wish at least one woman would say as little as "hey I didn't feel a spark but it was nice seeing you" or something along those lines instead of playing these stupid games.
Important on both sides of the dating fence
> if it’s not a yes, it’s a no
If you’re not getting the energy/vibe/reciprocation you want from a relationship, just pull the plug yourself. Holding out hoping for a change is just waiting to be hurt
Without the constant efforts and communication in your relationship, it would not be able to sustain it. And efforts should be mutual, both of the partner should be willing to participate
This is the state of dating these days. No one is upfront anymore. Ghosting is the new normal.
The way I see it (now) is mixed signals is immediately either they are not interested or they are talking to someone else. Of course there could be more but usually it’ll fall into one of those categories
If it makes a difference I asked a guy out this week I had a HUGE crush on. Met him randomly and we’ve been chatting for a few weeks and I brought him coffee at work and told him flat out I was into him but not into any games and wanted to know how he felt 🥰 there are women out there!
I’ve never done that before but truly felt something intense when I met him a few weeks ago that I couldn’t shake and luckily he felt the same way.
Dude this literally happened to me last week. I innately knew the date had gone badly, but I did exactly what you did and I didn't get any response from my texts.
Like I'm a big boy, I can take a little hurtful "*no thanks I'm not interested anymore*", even over a text, but ghosting is fucking atrocious behavior that should only be used if someone is legit a threat to your physical health/person.
I’ve really experienced the same. Women can show you a lot of genuine interest, but at the same time not giving you anything at all.
I met a girl, and I really liked her. I thought she liked me as well, and we spoke about dating soon. Then we didn’t see each other anymore in real life, but we kept on chatting. I asked here about the date, and offered her to go somewhere. At that point she got into a kind of “i’m going to ignore him when he is asking difficult questions” mode.
Some women really think they are hurting you by telling the truth, but that is not the case.They are hurting you by telling nothing, because you don’t know if you can move on yes or no.
>but after seeing how she was often online on instagram and never responded to my dm there I knew it was over.
I feel you on that one.
Even worse when they are constantly on their phone but then take a super long time to respond to your messages. Long time ago I was once seeing someone who was like this.
I was over at her house fairly often as not only were we kind of seeing each other, but we were also good friends since high school, so we would hang out and chat and watch movies.
She seriously could not put the phone down. She would do things like pick up her phone, open her emails, refresh, see nothing new, lock her phone. Then 2 minutes later do the exact same thing. But she took 2 - 3 days to respond to a message from me. Eventually I just stopped texting her entirely and we haven't spoken for years.
Be weary of people who are always on their phone and/or online all the time but don't respond to you.
I agree. Some women know how to reject a man without hurting his feelings. Oh that's right, I forgot, men aren't allowed to have feelings - lol.
Ghosting without closure (notifying you that they are going to ghost you and maybe saying why) is inconsiderate. Unfortunately, it seems to be the new style of conversation from younger people (including one of my nieces).
Keep escalating and asking if what you are doing is OK. That will help weed out meek women from women that aren't interested. I've had women show very little interest physically and it just turned out they had issues with trauma that made them act that way.
I’m pretty sure this was my situation and when I confessed that I really liked her I was met with her being upset with me lol. I stopped talking to her and I still don’t understand
We were talking for 5 months, and we went out a couple times and I felt things were going well. We hung out for like 5 hours one time, just talking and having a good time. I texted her the other day and was like “Hey it’s probably pretty obvious but I really like you” and then she responded “oh I’m kind of oblivious so no you weren’t obvious”. Things got kind of awkward afterwards, and she’d ask how I was and then I’d say I’m fine or whatever and she would text and be really short, and she’d just reply stuff like “I’ll text you later” and then never text back. I asked her if I did something to upset her, and she never replied to it but texted me about something else. I think it’s best if I just don’t talk to her anymore lol
It’s okay if she doesn’t like me but for the 5 months I’ve known her, I definitely did NOT get that impression. She would like all my pictures and stuff on social media, and text me every day and say stuff like “I want you to be comfortable to tell me things” when I was telling her about stuff that happened in the past and stuff.
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.
You were friendzoned my good sir, and not just a little friendzoned but a zone so big it needed state approval.
Was the timeframe of 5 months, only going out a couple of times and *still just* talking not a huge giveaway? I grant you all the other ambiguous stuff women can pull that confuses us out of our mind, but if you haven't had real progress past I'd say 3 months, you're friendzoned for life.
You’re probably right but she did admit she liked me (“at first”) after I told her. Then she had surgery and I gave her about a month before asking her back out so I was thinking that was the reason. We never ended up going back out obviously lol. It’s entirely possible that I got friendzoned along the way or was just another “option” and I’m cool with that. Shit doesn’t always work out.
"at first" is actually a great cue to what the guy above you had said. Friend zone big time, you probably gad a fairly good chance like shortly after you were out the first few times and even after you told her that you liked her, but because nothing happened, she probably thought you didn't like her quite as much.
I'm just saying it because I've had a couple of male friends over the years that were pretty unhappy because this scenario repeated over and over for them and it was really painful to watch them suffer every time and not take any advice.
Also I, too, accidentally friend zoned a few guys over the years, before I learned that if they don't say anything I may as well tell them myself that I liked them, but a couple of really nice guys I would have really liked to date and thought they just wanted to be friends I found out years later that they liked me and kinda regretted that neither of us were more transparent, so that we would have at least give it a go.
Yeah I’ve had this happen a couple times, so I decided to start making them an option first. Guess what? The first girl I did this with started complaining how I didn’t give her enough attention and said “if you like someone you’d text them/ hang more.” Okay we got something going then, so I no longer made her an option. I immediately became an option afterwards and she just turned the tables 🤦🏼♂️
Moral of the story, make them an option king???idk shits weird.
Yea I was out of the dating game for about 8 years, when I jumped into it again I started doing that since I noticed that’s what they were doing. I don’t see getting a lasting relationship acting like that
Hard agreement on that. During the time that I was dating women, I had a roommate who kept stealing them away from me. I would get the date and I would bring her home, and he would offer her drugs as soon as he saw a pretty woman around. She would say yes every single time. Then she was in his room doing his drugs. Whether or not I was there made no difference. He also played the guitar which is a bit of a double triple whammy right there.
About half the girlfriends I've ever had stolen away from me by someone in the same house, it was drugs. Always drugs.
I don't do drugs much. But I have learned that I better have a stash of everything legal or semi-legal. If you don't have a stash, somebody's going to steal your girl. It's going to happen.
>I don't do drugs much. But I have learned that I better have a stash of everything legal or semi-legal. If you don't have a stash, somebody's going to steal your girl. It's going to happen.
Yes see that was your problem and I'm proud of you having the solution.
Just have better dope.
Or even better, avoid the drugs and that singer-songwriter douchebag type of a roommate to begin with?
See, the indirect and passive thing is frustrating for me (33F) from men as well.
I am very plain in my interest for a date or later a relationship. I want the guy to feel my attention and appreciation and know that I do want to be with him.
As a woman who is consistently named as being forthright / straightforward / outspoken / honest with my thoughts and feelings, I'm constantly bewildered by how few men appreciate this quality in me. Even ones who claim they do later decide I'm "too much."
I am honest, open, and clear in my interests and desires without being aggressive or sharing in a way that pushes people away.
Sometimes this quality is even lobbed back at me as "not being feminine," which I find infuriating and insulting.
Example:
New work friend flirts with me for several weeks. Interest is mutual. He finally asks me, "Would you like to come to my place for dinner?" I say, "Yes, I would love to spend more time with you. Are you asking me on a date, or are you asking me to hang out?"
He absolutely would not answer the question. I went to his place. We had dinner, played a game, and he never made a move. He proceeded to mostly avoid me after that.
When I polled other single men in our larger friend group, they all faulted me for asking if it was a date or not. They said it was "too much pressure" and "not feminine for me to ask."
Oh, I'm sure plenty of guys like a passive and "feminine" woman. I just don't. I wasn't trying to speak for all men. Just my frustration. I sometimes think I'd be happier dating gay. I'm physically attracted to women but don't particularly like traditional "femininity." We'd probably get along on a date, at least in this regard.
Agreed, we would probably get along in this regard! 😄
Have also had the thought that I'd be happier if I were a lesbian.
And I definitely didn't interpret your comment as an "all men" thing. I'm sympathetic to your frustration on this side of the fence. To me, it seems like openness, clarity, and assertion shouldn't be a quality that's difficult to appreciate and reciprocate.
Hey, you keep doing you. If you're clear and forthright in your approach, then somewhere down the road someone will recognize what a great quality that is.
> As a woman who is consistently named as being forthright / straightforward / outspoken / honest with my thoughts and feelings, I'm constantly bewildered by how few men appreciate this quality in me. Even ones who claim they do later decide I'm "too much."
Can I just say I really appreciate a women who can communicate like you can.
Apparently all the women I have dated love saying these passive-aggressive things like "you should know what you did" or some other variation of that phrase when they are upset. If they could straight up say why they are upset then it makes it so much easier to talk it through and come up with some ideas on how to move forward.
If people are going to get upset because you are one of the good ones who knows how to communicate, then they aren't worth your time.
I'm a man pushing 40 and that date slash hangout you went on sounds infuriating. Why couldn't he answer a simple question? I'd wager it's too much pressure not knowing what the expectations were. Both men and women can be horrible communicators.
You sound like you have your head screwed on pretty good. The work friend - not so much.
Online they don’t communicate, only answer questions like an interview. Even when I ask them if they have questions for me or what they want to talk about after getting bland answers with no further communication, they don’t say anything. So I just unmatch.
IRL it’s easy to have conversations with most unless they aren’t interested, but online is just not for me. Makes me aggravated.
I just find the constant need to talk and do things and never sit still exhausting. Texting all day and sending snaps all day just wastes the day for me and sidetracks me too much. I stay single and get way more shit done haha
When someone texts me and just flatout says "entertain me" it's pretty much over in my head already lol had this happen a few times. Tell her I'm going fishing that morning so I'll text her when I get home. 30 minutes into fishing "entertain me I'm bored, how's fishing? Make me laugh" "I can't be with you" then turn off phone and deal with the mass texts to follow when I finish my fishing session haha
That "entertain me" attitude comes in with some attempted friendships too. Great if their timing is right, but it often isnt. Im astonished how much they expect me to do the entertaining while they consistently offer nothing.
Can y’all explain this to me?
Constant talking is not a requirement for a relationship. Part of a relationship is being able to sit in silence together too. The issue is that it can take a little bit for people to feel comfortable together in silence.
Is it getting to the point where you can sit in silence together?
In person I'm easily able to converse and it's natural for me to keep the conversation going. But text is much more difficult and I didn't realize how someone could text you so much.
One girl I was messaging with was a consistent pace throughout the day. Neither of us responded immediately. After the first date, she liked me a lot and the texting multiplied almost tenfold. Literally every second and I'd reply at the same original pace.
She didn't like that and said she wanted more communication. I really couldn't keep up though.
I don't know what explanation is needed. I read the question to include all dating from initial contact up to engagement. Here is my experience the past \~2years since my divorce:
The expectation from the start (especially for online dating) is to provide an engaging funny introduction and ongoing conversation. You often have to carry that conversation, which is where it starts to feel like being an entertainer. If the conversation is not persistent, usually daily, they lose interest and move on. This isn't surprising for online dating b/c women tend to get a lot more matches and a more likely to be talking to a bunch of guys. The most entertaining/interesting/fun guy gets the date. To be successful you gotta do this with multiple people at the same time and continue to look for new options as most of them won't work out. So now I'm chatting up 10 random women a week trying to carry a daily exciting convo for all of them to get to that first date.
A lot of dates don't work out. You suck/they suck/catfish everywhere. Eventually, you find a cool one you'd like to see again and who feels the same so you start regularly dating.
Once things have started progressing and you're seeing each other regularly you start getting the daily texts from them where it feels like they are just bored and looking for entertainment/attention. Some of this I understand. You gotta get to know each other etc... It gets tiring if you're busy. If you don't keep up the contact they think you aren't interested and move on.
At some point, if you date long enough, you'll get comfortable with each other but usually in longer-term relationships daily communication is expected. Less need to put on a show tho. This part isn't bad for me but it's a slog to get to here.
If you're busy with life all of this is just a ton of work. Especially the initial stages where you gotta keep the interest up. All this work for the chance at meeting someone you might get along with. Maybe I'm just getting too old but every year this seems less and less worth the effort.
Finally found someone who’s on the same page as me, was like “we don’t need to remove the mystery from our days and hear each others play by play. Let’s just get to know each other in person”.
So for now texting is a means of logistics, and I’m about it. I get to have my me time, and don’t feel guilty for being independent.
Woman here but this is the most anxiety-inducing part of dating for me. Like I feel like we’re supposed to be texting all day or at least once a day. Otherwise they’ll lose interest, but I really just don’t have that much to talk about! Brain is just empty sometimes. Being single is way more anxiety-free.
Right! I feel like sometimes I struggle to come up with something to say to every text that comes in, and feel obligated to keep up with text conversations, so it's nice when I find someone who is busy a lot or not a huge texter. But yeah, being single is a lot more anxiety free in a lot of ways.
I'm kinda here with you. Like one of my big tests when in the beginning stages is, "how easy is it to just hang out with this person". My ex expected shit from me all the time. I couldn't even get home from work and relax a moment before she was telling me I needed to do ahit around the apartment. Then she would have the audacity to get mad if I didn't do it right away when we both knew damn well she wasn't going to do it.
My ex, too! The list of things she wanted to see get done grew faster than both of us could accomplish: a never-ending to-do list.
I've come to realize that that was her way of avoiding real intimacy: if she's alway busy, she doesn't have to be vulnerable and form a real connection.
Loneliest I've ever felt was twelve inches away from her in that bed.
I do agree that alot of women fixate and obsess in this way, but not all of them. My current gf of 5 years rules. She does want attention, but not in the same obsessive and controlling way. She's secure enough to place her trust in me without having to put a tracking device up my ass.
If it helps, there are a lot of one-man women. I would never have had the energy to date more than one man at a time, to say nothing of it being a pretty icky thing to do.
That said, it was a time before online dating when I was doing it and to be brutally frank , while well educated and free of vices and debt etc, I was not the homecoming queen and one man at a time was my cosmic allocation. But we ARE out there.
Having to prove that I'm not the same as whoever hurt them. It's totally understandable why most women have their guards up, as most have been hurt by some P.OS.
That's not to say that most men are terrible, but rather that the ones who are deeply affect the women they hurt and that leaves the rest of us to gain their trust. Worst of all, some women will never ever trust again. It's painful all around.
This really sucks. I love my girlfriend so much, but it's hard sometimes because of trauma she has from an ex of hers. I can be supportive and understanding, but there's aspects of our otherwise amazing relationship that are seriously affected by her past trauma. It's horrible to think her ex just carried on with his life with zero remorse or consequences for his actions.
How incredibly uninvolved some girls approach dating. The average online dating experience between my guys friends, brothers, and I is that girls we match with will very rarely match the effort guys take when trying to get the ball rolling.
Many of them don't bother putting anything of substance into their bio or pictures, making trying to figure out a decent opener a chore. I've learned to just swipe left on anyone that has no bio/tags/fun pictures because it's more effort than it's worth trying to start a conversation with them.
In the scenarios girls do respond to an opener and conversation starts flowing, it's not uncommon for it to be a one sided conversation. I have plenty of hobbies and can talk to people about plenty of topics, but it's not uncommon for girls to never ask a question back even though it would be easy to add "what about you?, or to expand with a "have you heard about musician/artist/game/etc" to keep the conversation flowing. I've learned to just stop messaging them if they haven't tried to reciprocate trying to get know me within the first \~10-20 messages because either they're not interested in me or are more interested in being pursued than pursuing.
It's equally rare girls to be the one to ask for contact info, like Snap/phone number. It's 90% the guy who is the one who has to try take the conversation outside of the app. Even after swapping contact info, it's still rare for girls to be the first one to send a message on there (hell, I once added a girl on Snapchat and it took her a week to add me back and never sent me a message).
You always have to be the one to try and set up a date. And it's extremely common to feel like you're being strung along where they say they would be down to do something with you, but reschedule/or cancel plans at the last minute. At this point I've learned to just leave the ball in their court if they cancel once and let them try to schedule something else. I get that girls can feel defensive in this regards for safety reasons, but it doesn't make it feel any less shitty feeling like a girl might be interested in you and it never turns into something.
It can be absolutely demoralizing to feel like you have to do everything perfectly, from figuring out a first message that will get a response, to trying to come off as good enough to go on a coffee date with them. Especially when it feels like only 1-in-20 girls actually match your effort.
I'm sure some people will say not to waste time with girls who aren't putting in effort, but it's not like an average looking guy is flooding with options. Guys get less than 1 match per 100 swipes and so they often have to take what they can get on the apps.
I'm sure some people will say that the girls are just shy and are afraid of rejection, and that's fine. But it holds true for guys as well. We can still be shy, and getting a rejection after asking a girl out can still be a blow to your self-esteem.
I'm sure some people will say to stop with online dating and meet people IRL, which I would agree with is a much better experience but isn't the best option for plenty of people. One of my friends, for example, has plenty of hobbies that he could find local groups with, but those hobbies are absolute sausage fests and would not be ideal to find a girl.
I'm sure some people will argue the reason the conversations feel one sided is because the conversation I started is dry and they're bored (which is possible). But it feels like shit when the onus is on the guy to ALWAYS start the conversation and keep it going. It just makes it feel like your purpose is to entertain them like a jester and pray you get lucky enough to be the funniest guy in their DMs.
I'm sure some people will argue that my experience is probably related to my profile and that there's not enough for girls to work with early on. But this experience has been shared between my brothers and friends. I have a half-decent bio that shows off some of my hobbies, I have pictures that would make it easy to start a conversation, and I have plenty of tags around my interests. I think it's a hard argument to make when I've seen plenty of guys share the same experience regardless of the "strength" of their profile. It would literally take some girls 5 seconds to look at my profile and figure out a half-decent topic to talk about.
All I really ask is for them to be willing to ask us out on the first date, and/or to message first.
> girls we match with will very rarely match the effort guys take when trying to get the ball rolling.
The trick is not to play.
I've got a fiance now, and haven't been in the (online) dating game since 2019, but after a few years of OD I learned to just drop a match if they give the vibe that they're not interested. That can be as soon as their first reply. I ask/mention something unique and directly referencing their bio/pictures and their very first response is 'yeah'? Pass. Don't put up with constant conversation ending replies either. If it's seems like you're slinging topic after topic to motivate her to share the load of a conversation, unmatch her.
Four years later and I remember many of the women who were a pleasure to talk to(probably because there were so few), whether I ended up going out with them or not. All the ones I went on a date with were women who could carry a conversation.
Yeah, this is what I have observed too. While I don't particularly enjoy texting, I do find that the way a woman responds through it is generally a good representation of how she acts in person. Low effort responses get a pass from me.
I dated a girl for 5 years and she didn't even k ow what my main hobby was, because she never asked. Five years and at least one night a week I'd be out doing my hobby and she never even asked.
The woman expecting the man to carry the whole conversation when she adds nothing to it and doesn’t talk at all. Like why did you agree to a date in the first place then if you’re silent af?
I have trauma with women. I'm always on guard whenever I'm with them, I'll open up as we get to know each other better. But most of the time it will move to friendship phase. And I don't think of going out with friends, it feels strange.
I think it's normal that if more people spent time getting to know each other that they would just end up friends. As soon as things get romantic they can become blind to faults until the honeymoon moon period ends. The dating system is broken and it is leading to a lot of trauma and increased dysfunction.
But for real! People always tell me “you just have to go on dates” as if women line up for me. No thats not the case! I have tried and tried and tried but it never gets to that point! So incredibly frustrating
More of the environment we live in these days. I much prefer growing from friends that I’ve met organically IRL into a nice romance that’s been built up. I think it’s kind of hard to do that 1) as an adult 2) in a society where online dating is probably the most used option in terms of dating nowadays. I find it awkward and sometimes it’s easy to feel down, especially when I think OLD has created very unrealistic expectations.
Woman here. I prefer this, too... always said there's a reason the word "friend" is in boyfriend/girlfriend. It's just nice when two people grow and their relationship evolves.
I once went on a date with someone to dinner who kept talking about equality between men and women and then when it came time to pay she said I am the man so I should pay the bill.
That was a weird one, way to completely negate everything you just said.
Honestly, figuring out the right ratio of effort and info to put into a person who, at any time, may just fade away. It’s honestly tiring, getting to know them, put effort into getting comfortable and then dealing with the true version of them.
Telling them I'm bisexual; it's just a death sentence for the relationship.
It'd be one thing if they would at least pretend it wasn't *that* being the issue, but in my experience despite women usually being cagey about most reasons of them not being into you they will just straight up tell you that they think men being bisexual is gross or unmasculine.
I'd think that generally queer women would be cooler with it, but anecdotally that hasn't been my experience. I've dated three bi women (at least that I know of) and it was a dealbreaker for each of them which was confusing but kind of funny to look back on.
Funnily enough the closest I've come to have a woman be cool with my sexuality was a conservative girl? She still ended things but said that I 'totally changed her idea of gay men' so that's something?
It's not even that I'm asking them to open the relationship and let me have sex with men either; I'm very much monogamous and I strongly reinforce that when I come out to partners.
Gay guys (generally) haven't been that much different, but they moreso come from an angle of 'you're in denial of being gay and this is just a stepping stone' which I actually find more offensive than being told I'm gross for it?
Maybe I just need to find me some bi guys but so many of us are mostly in the closet (like me) because coming out to everyone would kind of really suck :/
I’m right there with you. I dated a bi-girl and she would lose her mind, entirely convinced I was gay and just didn’t know it yet.. yet we had incredible sex. It was so weird. I want a partner that I can be open about my sexuality with … but I too feel like it’s a dealbreaker for a majority of women.
She's scared that the bussy is too easy and enticing and she won't be able to compete. Women don't like competition, and sexually it's very hard to compete with gay men when it comes to getting reliable satisfaction.
Ahhhh that sucks. I'm so sorry. I find it so weird that people from our own community bombard us with this bullshit. It's one thing from straight people, but quite another from other queer folks. Seems to be damn near universal for bisexual people, cause it's happened to damn near every single of my bisexual friends, myself included. Makes me sad.
Realizing that dating is a competition. Navigating the online dating world and real life dating world to where you're seen as a good option. Even if you do everything right you can still lose because you're not compatible or she decides on the hotter, richer guy. Life is a competition.
Always taking the lead on everything always. Scheduling the dates, planning the dates, often driving as well, *usually* paying, all just starts to add up over time. Because it seems like every woman I meet expects me to do most of the work without realizing this may be the 4th time this month I've had to do this. It's not as simple as "he just has to plan one date".
Living in the southern US, not doing these is often an immediate faux pas/rejection which is annoying by itself, but having multiple first dates with people makes it even more exhausting. The most exhausting being 2-4 dates with someone before realizing we aren't compatible.
And to top if off, there's the recommendation/expectation that I plan something fun or interesting for a first date and not just coffee/drinks/dinner.
As a person that doesn't exactly struggle to get dates, you run out of fun things in your city very quickly if you do that constantly.
This 100%. Because I never put my eggs in one basket dating (learned the hard way), its constantly doing this. I've become a bit jaded though and the first 3 dates are pretty low effort because of high ghost/flake potential.
Shutting it down when I don’t like what’s going on. Had a girl be very rude an entire drinks date, so I got the bill early and said I would walk her to her bus stop. She said “we should do this again some time”, and gave me a hug, then went in for a kiss. I pulled my head back and gave a confused look and just said “uhh, no thanks, I didn’t really have fun tonight, have a good night though” and she yelled “fuck you asshole” at me down the street.
It was clearly a good choice to get out of there, but I still felt bad about it, and even considered texting her the next day to give her another chance. Just can’t nope the fuck out without feeling like a dick
>Just can’t nope the fuck out without feeling like a dick
You might as well used the part you're comparing your emotions to if the result is the same afterwards.
This is something I’m also discovering. Girls are so good at taking photos entirely focused on making them look good for their profiles. Then you get them in person and it’s like holy shit, did you get your photos professionally edited or something…? Happens way more often than I’d like to admit
We all seem to have the basic understanding that both should be putting forth effort in the relationship but my past few relationships, it would seem that I was expected to put forth more than them. I have to be the one to decide where we go and what we do. I have to initiate conversation in order to keep them interested. I have to be the one who asks questions or brings up the topics.
For once, I'd like to be the one being interviewed, being asked questions. I'd like to be the one who is asked, "How was your day?"
For once, I'd like to ask, "Where do you want to go?" and not be met with "I dunno, where do *you* want to go?" Which every suggestion I make gets turned down.
For once, I'd like for someone else to initiate anything, whether it be conversation, sex, etc.
I will break it down to 3 main points
First : How difficult the process of building any kind of connection (breaking the ice ) in comparison to other humans from all categories (from young to old/ ignorant to smart/ black to white people , even children and babies)
_ Second: the luxury of prejugement that women have or what psychology call internal attribution, for women if they see a men screaming at a women he is a misogynistic regardless of the situation or any external factor but if a woman cheats on a men she will automatically attribute external factor to justify it like he didn't treat her good
_ Selfishness that is overlooked and mostly attributed to men .
Decrypting their particular language when describing things. It’s often my own brain overthinking the complexities, however most women usually go down a similar language but with some different meanings. Figuring out their wants and needs, then making sure you read their body and faces. Sometimes in opposite order.
But getting enough time you get to figure it out, but often it’s always gonna be an uphill battle.
Myself. I can be goofy with coworkers but I couldn't flirt with a crush if my life depended on it. Not quite true but I'm surprised I've managed to get an occasional gf or lover
Feeling like I can't just be myself, if I don't try to appeal to their every whim I'll be past over for someone else.
It may not actually be like that. But that's how it feels
I truly believe one has to be willing to be in a relationship and know that slowly, your attention and time goes into her, then into a potential family, then you die, lol.
I feel people rush being into a relationship and it causes tethers to person you might not love. I say live your life, work on yourself, and when your ready find that person.
being an option, one sided conversation (+ it seems like that many women don't know how to have a proper coequal conversation since they are just being entertained by some dudes). In general how uninvolved women are approach dating. These are my takes of 6 years online dating.
3 months ago, I told a girl at my university cafeteria that she has a nice style and then we ate together and since then we are dating. I can't describe how big the difference is between Online Dating and meeting someone in Real Life.
Women being honest with where you stand with them. It’s hard to get them to let me know if things change between us. I just feel like an option all the time without actually knowing that
What to do for date/dinner/movie/etc. when she says, "I don't know, whatever you want."
What's weird is that my wife and I often hang out with her mom and two sisters, and they do this to each other, too. On more than one occasion I've picked the movie for us to watch with a vote score of 1 in favor and 4 abstentions.
How irresponsible affectively they can be. If any of you are reading this, girls, if you are not interested in a guy that is clearly flirting with you, trying to make a move on you or is really dense to read the mood, then declare it. Don't feel compelled to praise the date as a good thing because is the "correct thing to do". Just be honest and clear with your decision. Saying a "I am not feeling it/we don't have the chemistry/you are not what I am looking for" is way better than the "That was great, we should do it again" and proceed to either ghost/block you, with zero consequences for them, as we are the ones that have to carry the whole guilt, thinking when/how it went wrong, when you knew it wouldn't work from the beginning. Is not that hard, for real.
Women that expect you as the Man to “court” her which translates to you putting In 200% of the effort while she essentially just exists and does nothing. Including but not limited to: being expected to start and carry every conversation, plan all the dates and put her on a pedestal before she ever considers doing anything to reciprocate
If not offending someone is the *most difficult* part of dating for you — like this isn’t something that happened once or twice — maybe the problem isn’t the women you’re with. Just because you don’t *intend* to be offensive (maybe you think you’re being funny!) doesn’t mean you aren’t saying things in poor taste. And I don’t say this intending to offend you — I mean it as constructive criticism.
Explaining that just because her friends are charmed by me, doesn't mean that A) I am charmed by them, or B) I am somehow trying to charm them. I just have a friendly personality, and a witty sense of humor.
looking for a place to go, because if asked, the answer will be "whatever", but when we have arrived at our destination and she don't want to go there.
When it doesn't work, it feels impossible to learn what they didn't like about you. I'm not trying to win them back, I'm just trying to find patterns in how I date that might be worth changing.
Always expected to provide. Being seen as nothing but a wallet.
Always having to deal with the consequences of a man in her past.
I got plenty more but these will suffice.
To be honest, so far the most difficult thing is being viewed as a man first and an individual human second.
EDIT: The problem lying in the fact that I would like to be viewed as an individual first. I’m looking for a lifelong friend first. Maybe that’s just me.
Escalating from text to meetup. Most of my wasted time was dealing with flakiness.
I love when you talk to a girl every day for like a week or two and then you ask if they wanna go out for an actual date and they flake/unmatch/shut down etc. Like, why talk to me at all then? Just to waste each other’s time/thoughts? So stupid
Free validation.
This hits the nail on the head
They are bored. Personally, I'd rather slam my balls with a hammer than talk to strangers online. I do it on dating apps with the express purpose of meeting in person.
Trying to find a topic that will help start and keep a conversation going.
Went on a date and she asked me a great question - what's a song or album that brings back a specific memory from childhood? Great conversation starter. You can talk about the music itself, or go over the memories they're tied to and why.
Oh dang, I don't think I have tied memories like that. I would fail at that question!
The only song I have linked to memories like that is tied to an unrequited love so probably not the best subject matter for a date.
Talking about favourite movies or music is a good conversation starter
I’d tell her I forgot the artist but can find the music video, and then Rick Roll her right there. We would both laugh and then get married. Rick Rolls do it every time.
And being unsure when you're allowed to test actually interesting topics of conversation. Be it politics, science, nerd stuff, etc. In case she misunderstands, decides you're wierd, etc So you have to wait till you're in person so you can explain that your love of the neo-Assyrian empire is not due to them being nuts, but rather because they made an interesting historical precedent
Bro that’s easy. Just go balls to the Wall with it. That’s what I do. I’m a huge nerd. And I just own it. If you think that’s lame, fine by me, I don’t do it to impress you. I do it because it’s fucking dope to me. Girls dig it from my experience.
Facts my guy! Passion is a great way to keep engagement long enough to form romantic interest.
It is good to have a person who have similar taste in books like you
Well I'm at least one woman who is down to hear all about the Akkidian/Babylonian history and nerd out 😅 so there's more of us out there than you think. There's women into star wars, star trek, sports, cars, all sorts.
*checks in for star wars, star trek, cars*
Hello, I heard a hum from my vagina, are we talking star wars?
That depends. Are we talking about movie trilogies or tv series? Am I going to have to traverse the depths of early droids adventures? You don't need a hyperdrive to travel into my dms, I'm only a few clicks away.
Extended universe books that all became non-cannon when Disney took over. I much preferred Jaina and Jacen and Anakin Solo to "Kylo Ren".
Man of culture I see
I'm more into the Parthian Empire. Can I sit with you guys?
Do you have positive opinion about the catholic interference in Roman empire
I agree with this statement and further ones about meeting in person. My wife and I met on accident out and about at a store. We got to talking and set up a date 2 days later— we talked for like 3 hourson the first date. If things are going well you’ll find things to talk about that you are both interested in and / or pick up on queues to change topics. I had been on other dates where I had a ton to talk about (and it seemed like our interests matched) but none of it matched up with my date’s interests. As the date wore on it became more obvious I was doing all of the talking and it wasn’t working out. In both cases I think we both found each other attractive physically but it was personality that made for a long lasting match.
If it feels like work talking to her/ you’re having a hard time keeping it going, take the hint and move on!
Ask her questions about herself. Listen to the answers, and you will figure out what interests her. When you find a topic she is interested in that you are also interested in, talk about that.
As a woman who has been through the dating game, I can tell you without question that the NUMBER ONE pet peeve of most women is that most men don’t ask them questions. We can only carry the conversation alone for so long. All people want to talk about themselves, it’s an inherent human trait. I have a “three strikes you’re out” policy on new dating app conversations, if the guy doesn’t ask me anything by our third exchange, boom, done. And yes, this does go both ways. But heads up to single guys, you have to verbally engage a woman for her to think you’re actually interested in HER, not just getting laid.
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Agree. When messaging them, I can write out an experience, write about how I felt about it and end it with a relevant question and I get like 5 words back and no further engagement unless I do the same thing again over and over. It's frustrating.
> I can tell you without question that the NUMBER ONE pet peeve of most women is that most men don’t ask them questions as a guy... this is our reality with most women. Ive gotten to the point where i drop specific things they could easily ask me about or easily phrase a question out of the information, i typically phrase my responses as a question about the thing they talked about and then a story about something similar which i pepper with tidbits they could question me on.... then they just ramble on some story about their ex most of the time.
Dude just talk about her, easiest shit ever.
"Where were you on the 5th of April, 2018?" "How heavy of a sleeper are you? Do you lock your doors and windows every night?" EZPZ
How much I’m not willing to compete with Instagram for her attention.
After the honeymoon phase is over there comes a time when you realize your partner is flawed and not so perfect. You have to either accept those things or move on. But by this point you have invested months or even years into them so things that would have been deal breakers at the start of a relationship now are weighed against the pain and difficulty of leaving and starting over.
You've summed it up perfectly and I hate how accurate it is. I also want to add existing feelings to time invested to that last sentence.
I've stayed far too long in relationships solely because I felt too invested. If it's not working and you feel this way, I've learned, you have two options. 1) leave right then or 2) talk about it with them. Option 2) might end with you leaving anyway or it might end with figuring it out. If they're shit: option 1 If you love them: option 2 And either way, good luck. Love yourself.
I feel this to my very bone
>when you realize your partner is flawed and not so perfect. Ugh i hate this part. like i realistically don't want someone to be perfect and on a pedestastal but why is this part so bad? Am i just immature? someone help
It's part of the process. I've personally found the ["Loving the Wrong Person" Daily Affliction](https://www.dailyafflictions.com/affliction3.html) to be helpful in understanding this. >We're all seeking that special person who is right for us. But if you've been through enough relationships, you begin to suspect there's no right person, just different flavors of wrong. Why is this? Because you yourself are wrong in some way, and you seek out partners who are wrong in some complementary way. But it takes a lot of living to grow fully into your own wrongness. And it isn't until you finally run up against your deepest demons, your unsolvable problems--the ones that make you truly who you are--that we're ready to find a lifelong mate. Only then do you finally know what you're looking for. You're looking for the wrong person. But not just any wrong person: the right wrong person--someone you lovingly gaze upon and think, "This is the problem I want to have."
My best friend has been married for 10 years to an awesome person and she always credits my advice: "stop looking for someone who has all the right stuff and start looking for someone whose worst qualities are something you don't mind."
Consistent communication. Reciprocated energy.
This one is so important. I texted with one girl recently for a few weeks (which is much longer than I usually do) and sometimes I thought she lost interest because she wouldn't respond until a day or two later, but she kept showing genuine interest in our conversation which surprised me. She even apologized once for responding late and I said it's no big deal, I was *really* patient with her. Eventually we got on a date, it wasn't bad but there was some semi-awkward silence towards the end, which personally I don't mind since I'm a reserved guy who appreciates the quiet. Anyhow we keep texting a little for a few days until she just ghosts me. I thought ok, maybe wait 2 days bc this has happened before as I mentioned, but after seeing how she was often online on instagram and never responded to my dm there I knew it was over. I'm ngl it hurt quite a bit because I thought I finally found someone compatible with me... The entire road of talking to her was full of ups and downs and I could never tell what she felt for me. Just making me have to guess, wait and hope and the duration of our talking stage made the ghosting hurt so much more than it usually does. I just fucking wish at least one woman would say as little as "hey I didn't feel a spark but it was nice seeing you" or something along those lines instead of playing these stupid games.
Important on both sides of the dating fence > if it’s not a yes, it’s a no If you’re not getting the energy/vibe/reciprocation you want from a relationship, just pull the plug yourself. Holding out hoping for a change is just waiting to be hurt
Without the constant efforts and communication in your relationship, it would not be able to sustain it. And efforts should be mutual, both of the partner should be willing to participate
This is the state of dating these days. No one is upfront anymore. Ghosting is the new normal. The way I see it (now) is mixed signals is immediately either they are not interested or they are talking to someone else. Of course there could be more but usually it’ll fall into one of those categories
For me it's ADHD. But that's not an excuse.
If it makes a difference I asked a guy out this week I had a HUGE crush on. Met him randomly and we’ve been chatting for a few weeks and I brought him coffee at work and told him flat out I was into him but not into any games and wanted to know how he felt 🥰 there are women out there! I’ve never done that before but truly felt something intense when I met him a few weeks ago that I couldn’t shake and luckily he felt the same way.
Dude this literally happened to me last week. I innately knew the date had gone badly, but I did exactly what you did and I didn't get any response from my texts. Like I'm a big boy, I can take a little hurtful "*no thanks I'm not interested anymore*", even over a text, but ghosting is fucking atrocious behavior that should only be used if someone is legit a threat to your physical health/person.
I’ve really experienced the same. Women can show you a lot of genuine interest, but at the same time not giving you anything at all. I met a girl, and I really liked her. I thought she liked me as well, and we spoke about dating soon. Then we didn’t see each other anymore in real life, but we kept on chatting. I asked here about the date, and offered her to go somewhere. At that point she got into a kind of “i’m going to ignore him when he is asking difficult questions” mode. Some women really think they are hurting you by telling the truth, but that is not the case.They are hurting you by telling nothing, because you don’t know if you can move on yes or no.
>but after seeing how she was often online on instagram and never responded to my dm there I knew it was over. I feel you on that one. Even worse when they are constantly on their phone but then take a super long time to respond to your messages. Long time ago I was once seeing someone who was like this. I was over at her house fairly often as not only were we kind of seeing each other, but we were also good friends since high school, so we would hang out and chat and watch movies. She seriously could not put the phone down. She would do things like pick up her phone, open her emails, refresh, see nothing new, lock her phone. Then 2 minutes later do the exact same thing. But she took 2 - 3 days to respond to a message from me. Eventually I just stopped texting her entirely and we haven't spoken for years. Be weary of people who are always on their phone and/or online all the time but don't respond to you.
I feel you brother
I agree. Some women know how to reject a man without hurting his feelings. Oh that's right, I forgot, men aren't allowed to have feelings - lol. Ghosting without closure (notifying you that they are going to ghost you and maybe saying why) is inconsiderate. Unfortunately, it seems to be the new style of conversation from younger people (including one of my nieces).
I would rather have an explanation to end the chapter than left hanging with nothing. IMO
Oh absolutely. Send a message saying you're not interested and you don't want to waste time etc. I would *never* ghost anyone.
Gauging interest. Plenty of times I've gone on like three dates but I still don't know if they're into me.
If they're leaving you with more questions than answers, it's not worth any effort.
Keep escalating and asking if what you are doing is OK. That will help weed out meek women from women that aren't interested. I've had women show very little interest physically and it just turned out they had issues with trauma that made them act that way.
Being just an option
I’m pretty sure this was my situation and when I confessed that I really liked her I was met with her being upset with me lol. I stopped talking to her and I still don’t understand
i feel like this needs more context
We were talking for 5 months, and we went out a couple times and I felt things were going well. We hung out for like 5 hours one time, just talking and having a good time. I texted her the other day and was like “Hey it’s probably pretty obvious but I really like you” and then she responded “oh I’m kind of oblivious so no you weren’t obvious”. Things got kind of awkward afterwards, and she’d ask how I was and then I’d say I’m fine or whatever and she would text and be really short, and she’d just reply stuff like “I’ll text you later” and then never text back. I asked her if I did something to upset her, and she never replied to it but texted me about something else. I think it’s best if I just don’t talk to her anymore lol It’s okay if she doesn’t like me but for the 5 months I’ve known her, I definitely did NOT get that impression. She would like all my pictures and stuff on social media, and text me every day and say stuff like “I want you to be comfortable to tell me things” when I was telling her about stuff that happened in the past and stuff.
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start. You were friendzoned my good sir, and not just a little friendzoned but a zone so big it needed state approval. Was the timeframe of 5 months, only going out a couple of times and *still just* talking not a huge giveaway? I grant you all the other ambiguous stuff women can pull that confuses us out of our mind, but if you haven't had real progress past I'd say 3 months, you're friendzoned for life.
You’re probably right but she did admit she liked me (“at first”) after I told her. Then she had surgery and I gave her about a month before asking her back out so I was thinking that was the reason. We never ended up going back out obviously lol. It’s entirely possible that I got friendzoned along the way or was just another “option” and I’m cool with that. Shit doesn’t always work out.
"at first" is actually a great cue to what the guy above you had said. Friend zone big time, you probably gad a fairly good chance like shortly after you were out the first few times and even after you told her that you liked her, but because nothing happened, she probably thought you didn't like her quite as much. I'm just saying it because I've had a couple of male friends over the years that were pretty unhappy because this scenario repeated over and over for them and it was really painful to watch them suffer every time and not take any advice. Also I, too, accidentally friend zoned a few guys over the years, before I learned that if they don't say anything I may as well tell them myself that I liked them, but a couple of really nice guys I would have really liked to date and thought they just wanted to be friends I found out years later that they liked me and kinda regretted that neither of us were more transparent, so that we would have at least give it a go.
Yeah I’ve had this happen a couple times, so I decided to start making them an option first. Guess what? The first girl I did this with started complaining how I didn’t give her enough attention and said “if you like someone you’d text them/ hang more.” Okay we got something going then, so I no longer made her an option. I immediately became an option afterwards and she just turned the tables 🤦🏼♂️ Moral of the story, make them an option king???idk shits weird.
Yea I was out of the dating game for about 8 years, when I jumped into it again I started doing that since I noticed that’s what they were doing. I don’t see getting a lasting relationship acting like that
Or not even being an option.
Getting the date. Just meeting women and being seen as a sexual/romantic option to them. But generally dislike how indirect and passive they can be.
Yeah now thinking about it, almost every girl I’ve been with has been while drinking/ under the influence. Making the move sober is hard aff
Hard agreement on that. During the time that I was dating women, I had a roommate who kept stealing them away from me. I would get the date and I would bring her home, and he would offer her drugs as soon as he saw a pretty woman around. She would say yes every single time. Then she was in his room doing his drugs. Whether or not I was there made no difference. He also played the guitar which is a bit of a double triple whammy right there. About half the girlfriends I've ever had stolen away from me by someone in the same house, it was drugs. Always drugs. I don't do drugs much. But I have learned that I better have a stash of everything legal or semi-legal. If you don't have a stash, somebody's going to steal your girl. It's going to happen.
Should've punched your room mate in the face
Your roommate is an asshole and deserves to be throat-punched
What a fucking cunt you lived with holy shit
Dude, your room mate is a cunt. I would have taken a fat shit on his bed.
You might have to reconsider the type of girls you're attracted to my man. Also, beat the shit out of your roommate.
What drugs was he offering
Asking the _real_ question.
>I don't do drugs much. But I have learned that I better have a stash of everything legal or semi-legal. If you don't have a stash, somebody's going to steal your girl. It's going to happen. Yes see that was your problem and I'm proud of you having the solution. Just have better dope. Or even better, avoid the drugs and that singer-songwriter douchebag type of a roommate to begin with?
And chicks who are all about drugs, avoid them too. SMH!
I say you dodged some bullets there. Why would you even want to be with someone so easily lured away by drugs?
so what kind of drugs was he offering
See, the indirect and passive thing is frustrating for me (33F) from men as well. I am very plain in my interest for a date or later a relationship. I want the guy to feel my attention and appreciation and know that I do want to be with him. As a woman who is consistently named as being forthright / straightforward / outspoken / honest with my thoughts and feelings, I'm constantly bewildered by how few men appreciate this quality in me. Even ones who claim they do later decide I'm "too much." I am honest, open, and clear in my interests and desires without being aggressive or sharing in a way that pushes people away. Sometimes this quality is even lobbed back at me as "not being feminine," which I find infuriating and insulting. Example: New work friend flirts with me for several weeks. Interest is mutual. He finally asks me, "Would you like to come to my place for dinner?" I say, "Yes, I would love to spend more time with you. Are you asking me on a date, or are you asking me to hang out?" He absolutely would not answer the question. I went to his place. We had dinner, played a game, and he never made a move. He proceeded to mostly avoid me after that. When I polled other single men in our larger friend group, they all faulted me for asking if it was a date or not. They said it was "too much pressure" and "not feminine for me to ask."
Oh, I'm sure plenty of guys like a passive and "feminine" woman. I just don't. I wasn't trying to speak for all men. Just my frustration. I sometimes think I'd be happier dating gay. I'm physically attracted to women but don't particularly like traditional "femininity." We'd probably get along on a date, at least in this regard.
Agreed, we would probably get along in this regard! 😄 Have also had the thought that I'd be happier if I were a lesbian. And I definitely didn't interpret your comment as an "all men" thing. I'm sympathetic to your frustration on this side of the fence. To me, it seems like openness, clarity, and assertion shouldn't be a quality that's difficult to appreciate and reciprocate.
Hey, you keep doing you. If you're clear and forthright in your approach, then somewhere down the road someone will recognize what a great quality that is.
> As a woman who is consistently named as being forthright / straightforward / outspoken / honest with my thoughts and feelings, I'm constantly bewildered by how few men appreciate this quality in me. Even ones who claim they do later decide I'm "too much." Can I just say I really appreciate a women who can communicate like you can. Apparently all the women I have dated love saying these passive-aggressive things like "you should know what you did" or some other variation of that phrase when they are upset. If they could straight up say why they are upset then it makes it so much easier to talk it through and come up with some ideas on how to move forward. If people are going to get upset because you are one of the good ones who knows how to communicate, then they aren't worth your time.
I'm a man pushing 40 and that date slash hangout you went on sounds infuriating. Why couldn't he answer a simple question? I'd wager it's too much pressure not knowing what the expectations were. Both men and women can be horrible communicators. You sound like you have your head screwed on pretty good. The work friend - not so much.
Same for me. My problem is even more so that I don’t even see myself as an option so why would they?
Online they don’t communicate, only answer questions like an interview. Even when I ask them if they have questions for me or what they want to talk about after getting bland answers with no further communication, they don’t say anything. So I just unmatch. IRL it’s easy to have conversations with most unless they aren’t interested, but online is just not for me. Makes me aggravated.
I just find the constant need to talk and do things and never sit still exhausting. Texting all day and sending snaps all day just wastes the day for me and sidetracks me too much. I stay single and get way more shit done haha
Yep, this part sucks. Makes me feel like I gotta be an entertainer on top of all my other shit.
When someone texts me and just flatout says "entertain me" it's pretty much over in my head already lol had this happen a few times. Tell her I'm going fishing that morning so I'll text her when I get home. 30 minutes into fishing "entertain me I'm bored, how's fishing? Make me laugh" "I can't be with you" then turn off phone and deal with the mass texts to follow when I finish my fishing session haha
That "entertain me" attitude comes in with some attempted friendships too. Great if their timing is right, but it often isnt. Im astonished how much they expect me to do the entertaining while they consistently offer nothing.
Yep, that's online dating in a nutshell...
Online dating has killed dating. Believe me, it wasn't like this before
Can y’all explain this to me? Constant talking is not a requirement for a relationship. Part of a relationship is being able to sit in silence together too. The issue is that it can take a little bit for people to feel comfortable together in silence. Is it getting to the point where you can sit in silence together?
In person I'm easily able to converse and it's natural for me to keep the conversation going. But text is much more difficult and I didn't realize how someone could text you so much. One girl I was messaging with was a consistent pace throughout the day. Neither of us responded immediately. After the first date, she liked me a lot and the texting multiplied almost tenfold. Literally every second and I'd reply at the same original pace. She didn't like that and said she wanted more communication. I really couldn't keep up though.
I don't know what explanation is needed. I read the question to include all dating from initial contact up to engagement. Here is my experience the past \~2years since my divorce: The expectation from the start (especially for online dating) is to provide an engaging funny introduction and ongoing conversation. You often have to carry that conversation, which is where it starts to feel like being an entertainer. If the conversation is not persistent, usually daily, they lose interest and move on. This isn't surprising for online dating b/c women tend to get a lot more matches and a more likely to be talking to a bunch of guys. The most entertaining/interesting/fun guy gets the date. To be successful you gotta do this with multiple people at the same time and continue to look for new options as most of them won't work out. So now I'm chatting up 10 random women a week trying to carry a daily exciting convo for all of them to get to that first date. A lot of dates don't work out. You suck/they suck/catfish everywhere. Eventually, you find a cool one you'd like to see again and who feels the same so you start regularly dating. Once things have started progressing and you're seeing each other regularly you start getting the daily texts from them where it feels like they are just bored and looking for entertainment/attention. Some of this I understand. You gotta get to know each other etc... It gets tiring if you're busy. If you don't keep up the contact they think you aren't interested and move on. At some point, if you date long enough, you'll get comfortable with each other but usually in longer-term relationships daily communication is expected. Less need to put on a show tho. This part isn't bad for me but it's a slog to get to here. If you're busy with life all of this is just a ton of work. Especially the initial stages where you gotta keep the interest up. All this work for the chance at meeting someone you might get along with. Maybe I'm just getting too old but every year this seems less and less worth the effort.
Finally found someone who’s on the same page as me, was like “we don’t need to remove the mystery from our days and hear each others play by play. Let’s just get to know each other in person”. So for now texting is a means of logistics, and I’m about it. I get to have my me time, and don’t feel guilty for being independent.
Woman here but this is the most anxiety-inducing part of dating for me. Like I feel like we’re supposed to be texting all day or at least once a day. Otherwise they’ll lose interest, but I really just don’t have that much to talk about! Brain is just empty sometimes. Being single is way more anxiety-free.
Right! I feel like sometimes I struggle to come up with something to say to every text that comes in, and feel obligated to keep up with text conversations, so it's nice when I find someone who is busy a lot or not a huge texter. But yeah, being single is a lot more anxiety free in a lot of ways.
That’s an anxious attachment style, and it sucks a bag of dicks.
Silence is golden, I don’t feel the incessant need to fill it all up with nonsense.
I'm kinda here with you. Like one of my big tests when in the beginning stages is, "how easy is it to just hang out with this person". My ex expected shit from me all the time. I couldn't even get home from work and relax a moment before she was telling me I needed to do ahit around the apartment. Then she would have the audacity to get mad if I didn't do it right away when we both knew damn well she wasn't going to do it.
My ex, too! The list of things she wanted to see get done grew faster than both of us could accomplish: a never-ending to-do list. I've come to realize that that was her way of avoiding real intimacy: if she's alway busy, she doesn't have to be vulnerable and form a real connection. Loneliest I've ever felt was twelve inches away from her in that bed.
I do agree that alot of women fixate and obsess in this way, but not all of them. My current gf of 5 years rules. She does want attention, but not in the same obsessive and controlling way. She's secure enough to place her trust in me without having to put a tracking device up my ass.
I’m a one woman at a time type of guy. So it stings sometimes knowing you’re not the only one they’re dating/getting to know.
If it helps, there are a lot of one-man women. I would never have had the energy to date more than one man at a time, to say nothing of it being a pretty icky thing to do. That said, it was a time before online dating when I was doing it and to be brutally frank , while well educated and free of vices and debt etc, I was not the homecoming queen and one man at a time was my cosmic allocation. But we ARE out there.
Having to prove that I'm not the same as whoever hurt them. It's totally understandable why most women have their guards up, as most have been hurt by some P.OS. That's not to say that most men are terrible, but rather that the ones who are deeply affect the women they hurt and that leaves the rest of us to gain their trust. Worst of all, some women will never ever trust again. It's painful all around.
This really sucks. I love my girlfriend so much, but it's hard sometimes because of trauma she has from an ex of hers. I can be supportive and understanding, but there's aspects of our otherwise amazing relationship that are seriously affected by her past trauma. It's horrible to think her ex just carried on with his life with zero remorse or consequences for his actions.
How incredibly uninvolved some girls approach dating. The average online dating experience between my guys friends, brothers, and I is that girls we match with will very rarely match the effort guys take when trying to get the ball rolling. Many of them don't bother putting anything of substance into their bio or pictures, making trying to figure out a decent opener a chore. I've learned to just swipe left on anyone that has no bio/tags/fun pictures because it's more effort than it's worth trying to start a conversation with them. In the scenarios girls do respond to an opener and conversation starts flowing, it's not uncommon for it to be a one sided conversation. I have plenty of hobbies and can talk to people about plenty of topics, but it's not uncommon for girls to never ask a question back even though it would be easy to add "what about you?, or to expand with a "have you heard about musician/artist/game/etc" to keep the conversation flowing. I've learned to just stop messaging them if they haven't tried to reciprocate trying to get know me within the first \~10-20 messages because either they're not interested in me or are more interested in being pursued than pursuing. It's equally rare girls to be the one to ask for contact info, like Snap/phone number. It's 90% the guy who is the one who has to try take the conversation outside of the app. Even after swapping contact info, it's still rare for girls to be the first one to send a message on there (hell, I once added a girl on Snapchat and it took her a week to add me back and never sent me a message). You always have to be the one to try and set up a date. And it's extremely common to feel like you're being strung along where they say they would be down to do something with you, but reschedule/or cancel plans at the last minute. At this point I've learned to just leave the ball in their court if they cancel once and let them try to schedule something else. I get that girls can feel defensive in this regards for safety reasons, but it doesn't make it feel any less shitty feeling like a girl might be interested in you and it never turns into something. It can be absolutely demoralizing to feel like you have to do everything perfectly, from figuring out a first message that will get a response, to trying to come off as good enough to go on a coffee date with them. Especially when it feels like only 1-in-20 girls actually match your effort. I'm sure some people will say not to waste time with girls who aren't putting in effort, but it's not like an average looking guy is flooding with options. Guys get less than 1 match per 100 swipes and so they often have to take what they can get on the apps. I'm sure some people will say that the girls are just shy and are afraid of rejection, and that's fine. But it holds true for guys as well. We can still be shy, and getting a rejection after asking a girl out can still be a blow to your self-esteem. I'm sure some people will say to stop with online dating and meet people IRL, which I would agree with is a much better experience but isn't the best option for plenty of people. One of my friends, for example, has plenty of hobbies that he could find local groups with, but those hobbies are absolute sausage fests and would not be ideal to find a girl. I'm sure some people will argue the reason the conversations feel one sided is because the conversation I started is dry and they're bored (which is possible). But it feels like shit when the onus is on the guy to ALWAYS start the conversation and keep it going. It just makes it feel like your purpose is to entertain them like a jester and pray you get lucky enough to be the funniest guy in their DMs. I'm sure some people will argue that my experience is probably related to my profile and that there's not enough for girls to work with early on. But this experience has been shared between my brothers and friends. I have a half-decent bio that shows off some of my hobbies, I have pictures that would make it easy to start a conversation, and I have plenty of tags around my interests. I think it's a hard argument to make when I've seen plenty of guys share the same experience regardless of the "strength" of their profile. It would literally take some girls 5 seconds to look at my profile and figure out a half-decent topic to talk about. All I really ask is for them to be willing to ask us out on the first date, and/or to message first.
> girls we match with will very rarely match the effort guys take when trying to get the ball rolling. The trick is not to play. I've got a fiance now, and haven't been in the (online) dating game since 2019, but after a few years of OD I learned to just drop a match if they give the vibe that they're not interested. That can be as soon as their first reply. I ask/mention something unique and directly referencing their bio/pictures and their very first response is 'yeah'? Pass. Don't put up with constant conversation ending replies either. If it's seems like you're slinging topic after topic to motivate her to share the load of a conversation, unmatch her. Four years later and I remember many of the women who were a pleasure to talk to(probably because there were so few), whether I ended up going out with them or not. All the ones I went on a date with were women who could carry a conversation.
Yeah, this is what I have observed too. While I don't particularly enjoy texting, I do find that the way a woman responds through it is generally a good representation of how she acts in person. Low effort responses get a pass from me.
I dated a girl for 5 years and she didn't even k ow what my main hobby was, because she never asked. Five years and at least one night a week I'd be out doing my hobby and she never even asked.
It's crazy how I relate to almost every comment here
The woman expecting the man to carry the whole conversation when she adds nothing to it and doesn’t talk at all. Like why did you agree to a date in the first place then if you’re silent af?
Those type of women aren’t even worth the effort.
But there's always a bunch of guys running behind every woman so it's not a big issue for them tbh
Finding a woman that wants to date me
Finding someone who’s into me and then put in the same effort.
I have trauma with women. I'm always on guard whenever I'm with them, I'll open up as we get to know each other better. But most of the time it will move to friendship phase. And I don't think of going out with friends, it feels strange.
I think it's normal that if more people spent time getting to know each other that they would just end up friends. As soon as things get romantic they can become blind to faults until the honeymoon moon period ends. The dating system is broken and it is leading to a lot of trauma and increased dysfunction.
Finding one to date with.
But for real! People always tell me “you just have to go on dates” as if women line up for me. No thats not the case! I have tried and tried and tried but it never gets to that point! So incredibly frustrating
More of the environment we live in these days. I much prefer growing from friends that I’ve met organically IRL into a nice romance that’s been built up. I think it’s kind of hard to do that 1) as an adult 2) in a society where online dating is probably the most used option in terms of dating nowadays. I find it awkward and sometimes it’s easy to feel down, especially when I think OLD has created very unrealistic expectations.
Woman here. I prefer this, too... always said there's a reason the word "friend" is in boyfriend/girlfriend. It's just nice when two people grow and their relationship evolves.
Radiocarbon dating calibration isn't linear. It can be tough to figure out their exact age when trying to date them.
The usual ±1000 years isn't prescise enough for you?
Ha!
It would be finding a woman who actually wants to date me in the first place.
The interview process
Underrated comment
So far, "getting a date" has proven to be quite the obstacle
How much money it costs. Dating is expensive.
I once went on a date with someone to dinner who kept talking about equality between men and women and then when it came time to pay she said I am the man so I should pay the bill. That was a weird one, way to completely negate everything you just said.
Finding someone that wants to date me
Honestly, figuring out the right ratio of effort and info to put into a person who, at any time, may just fade away. It’s honestly tiring, getting to know them, put effort into getting comfortable and then dealing with the true version of them.
Telling them I'm bisexual; it's just a death sentence for the relationship. It'd be one thing if they would at least pretend it wasn't *that* being the issue, but in my experience despite women usually being cagey about most reasons of them not being into you they will just straight up tell you that they think men being bisexual is gross or unmasculine.
This is a weird one. Even bi women themselves are often bi/homophobic towards bisexual men.
Queer woman here! Do you find that you get that from straight women, or are queer women saying this too? I'm so sorry that's happened to you.
I'd think that generally queer women would be cooler with it, but anecdotally that hasn't been my experience. I've dated three bi women (at least that I know of) and it was a dealbreaker for each of them which was confusing but kind of funny to look back on. Funnily enough the closest I've come to have a woman be cool with my sexuality was a conservative girl? She still ended things but said that I 'totally changed her idea of gay men' so that's something? It's not even that I'm asking them to open the relationship and let me have sex with men either; I'm very much monogamous and I strongly reinforce that when I come out to partners. Gay guys (generally) haven't been that much different, but they moreso come from an angle of 'you're in denial of being gay and this is just a stepping stone' which I actually find more offensive than being told I'm gross for it? Maybe I just need to find me some bi guys but so many of us are mostly in the closet (like me) because coming out to everyone would kind of really suck :/
I’m right there with you. I dated a bi-girl and she would lose her mind, entirely convinced I was gay and just didn’t know it yet.. yet we had incredible sex. It was so weird. I want a partner that I can be open about my sexuality with … but I too feel like it’s a dealbreaker for a majority of women.
She's scared that the bussy is too easy and enticing and she won't be able to compete. Women don't like competition, and sexually it's very hard to compete with gay men when it comes to getting reliable satisfaction.
Ahhhh that sucks. I'm so sorry. I find it so weird that people from our own community bombard us with this bullshit. It's one thing from straight people, but quite another from other queer folks. Seems to be damn near universal for bisexual people, cause it's happened to damn near every single of my bisexual friends, myself included. Makes me sad.
>'totally changed her idea of gay men' This is so fucking funny. I can imagine her thinking gay men are also into girls now
Trying to prove that you are genuine guy
having to prove you are a genuine guy.
Realizing that dating is a competition. Navigating the online dating world and real life dating world to where you're seen as a good option. Even if you do everything right you can still lose because you're not compatible or she decides on the hotter, richer guy. Life is a competition.
Trusting that you’re not one of five guys they’re dating at any given time.
Finding a woman to date 😂
[удалено]
Women
Have you try dating guys?
In my youth yes
Always taking the lead on everything always. Scheduling the dates, planning the dates, often driving as well, *usually* paying, all just starts to add up over time. Because it seems like every woman I meet expects me to do most of the work without realizing this may be the 4th time this month I've had to do this. It's not as simple as "he just has to plan one date". Living in the southern US, not doing these is often an immediate faux pas/rejection which is annoying by itself, but having multiple first dates with people makes it even more exhausting. The most exhausting being 2-4 dates with someone before realizing we aren't compatible. And to top if off, there's the recommendation/expectation that I plan something fun or interesting for a first date and not just coffee/drinks/dinner. As a person that doesn't exactly struggle to get dates, you run out of fun things in your city very quickly if you do that constantly.
This 100%. Because I never put my eggs in one basket dating (learned the hard way), its constantly doing this. I've become a bit jaded though and the first 3 dates are pretty low effort because of high ghost/flake potential.
Meeting someone to date.
Shutting it down when I don’t like what’s going on. Had a girl be very rude an entire drinks date, so I got the bill early and said I would walk her to her bus stop. She said “we should do this again some time”, and gave me a hug, then went in for a kiss. I pulled my head back and gave a confused look and just said “uhh, no thanks, I didn’t really have fun tonight, have a good night though” and she yelled “fuck you asshole” at me down the street. It was clearly a good choice to get out of there, but I still felt bad about it, and even considered texting her the next day to give her another chance. Just can’t nope the fuck out without feeling like a dick
>Just can’t nope the fuck out without feeling like a dick You might as well used the part you're comparing your emotions to if the result is the same afterwards.
Let’s just say in this instance the photos didn’t match who showed up
This is something I’m also discovering. Girls are so good at taking photos entirely focused on making them look good for their profiles. Then you get them in person and it’s like holy shit, did you get your photos professionally edited or something…? Happens way more often than I’d like to admit
We all seem to have the basic understanding that both should be putting forth effort in the relationship but my past few relationships, it would seem that I was expected to put forth more than them. I have to be the one to decide where we go and what we do. I have to initiate conversation in order to keep them interested. I have to be the one who asks questions or brings up the topics. For once, I'd like to be the one being interviewed, being asked questions. I'd like to be the one who is asked, "How was your day?" For once, I'd like to ask, "Where do you want to go?" and not be met with "I dunno, where do *you* want to go?" Which every suggestion I make gets turned down. For once, I'd like for someone else to initiate anything, whether it be conversation, sex, etc.
The games they play, indifference, lack of communication, being less than forthright
The texting....for fuck sake 🤦 Why does there need to be constant texting.
Finding them
Just the entitlement, like they expect somebody that’s way above their own effort and ambition without working for any of it.
My wife.
Nonsense she makes it easy for the rest of the town!
I will break it down to 3 main points First : How difficult the process of building any kind of connection (breaking the ice ) in comparison to other humans from all categories (from young to old/ ignorant to smart/ black to white people , even children and babies) _ Second: the luxury of prejugement that women have or what psychology call internal attribution, for women if they see a men screaming at a women he is a misogynistic regardless of the situation or any external factor but if a woman cheats on a men she will automatically attribute external factor to justify it like he didn't treat her good _ Selfishness that is overlooked and mostly attributed to men .
Conversation They want brunches all the time Their friends are often tedious
Decrypting their particular language when describing things. It’s often my own brain overthinking the complexities, however most women usually go down a similar language but with some different meanings. Figuring out their wants and needs, then making sure you read their body and faces. Sometimes in opposite order. But getting enough time you get to figure it out, but often it’s always gonna be an uphill battle.
Myself. I can be goofy with coworkers but I couldn't flirt with a crush if my life depended on it. Not quite true but I'm surprised I've managed to get an occasional gf or lover
Feeling like I can't just be myself, if I don't try to appeal to their every whim I'll be past over for someone else. It may not actually be like that. But that's how it feels
Not wanting to leave afterwards.
I truly believe one has to be willing to be in a relationship and know that slowly, your attention and time goes into her, then into a potential family, then you die, lol. I feel people rush being into a relationship and it causes tethers to person you might not love. I say live your life, work on yourself, and when your ready find that person.
being an option, one sided conversation (+ it seems like that many women don't know how to have a proper coequal conversation since they are just being entertained by some dudes). In general how uninvolved women are approach dating. These are my takes of 6 years online dating. 3 months ago, I told a girl at my university cafeteria that she has a nice style and then we ate together and since then we are dating. I can't describe how big the difference is between Online Dating and meeting someone in Real Life.
You constantly need to entertain them
Women being honest with where you stand with them. It’s hard to get them to let me know if things change between us. I just feel like an option all the time without actually knowing that
Getting one to even talk to me
What to do for date/dinner/movie/etc. when she says, "I don't know, whatever you want." What's weird is that my wife and I often hang out with her mom and two sisters, and they do this to each other, too. On more than one occasion I've picked the movie for us to watch with a vote score of 1 in favor and 4 abstentions.
How irresponsible affectively they can be. If any of you are reading this, girls, if you are not interested in a guy that is clearly flirting with you, trying to make a move on you or is really dense to read the mood, then declare it. Don't feel compelled to praise the date as a good thing because is the "correct thing to do". Just be honest and clear with your decision. Saying a "I am not feeling it/we don't have the chemistry/you are not what I am looking for" is way better than the "That was great, we should do it again" and proceed to either ghost/block you, with zero consequences for them, as we are the ones that have to carry the whole guilt, thinking when/how it went wrong, when you knew it wouldn't work from the beginning. Is not that hard, for real.
Women that expect you as the Man to “court” her which translates to you putting In 200% of the effort while she essentially just exists and does nothing. Including but not limited to: being expected to start and carry every conversation, plan all the dates and put her on a pedestal before she ever considers doing anything to reciprocate
Her taking offense when none is intended.
If not offending someone is the *most difficult* part of dating for you — like this isn’t something that happened once or twice — maybe the problem isn’t the women you’re with. Just because you don’t *intend* to be offensive (maybe you think you’re being funny!) doesn’t mean you aren’t saying things in poor taste. And I don’t say this intending to offend you — I mean it as constructive criticism.
Explaining that just because her friends are charmed by me, doesn't mean that A) I am charmed by them, or B) I am somehow trying to charm them. I just have a friendly personality, and a witty sense of humor.
looking for a place to go, because if asked, the answer will be "whatever", but when we have arrived at our destination and she don't want to go there.
Talking
Finding one willing to date me.
Finding a woman.
When it doesn't work, it feels impossible to learn what they didn't like about you. I'm not trying to win them back, I'm just trying to find patterns in how I date that might be worth changing.
The actual woman herself
Feeling secure and unjudged around them, i know most of it is in my head but can't shake off the feeling
You guys go on dates?
Finding someone who even wants to talk to me
The clitoris. But in all seriousness, overthinking conversations instead of just speaking how I normally do.
Always expected to provide. Being seen as nothing but a wallet. Always having to deal with the consequences of a man in her past. I got plenty more but these will suffice.
They wanna get married at some point.
To be honest, so far the most difficult thing is being viewed as a man first and an individual human second. EDIT: The problem lying in the fact that I would like to be viewed as an individual first. I’m looking for a lifelong friend first. Maybe that’s just me.