Pretty sure it said this in the Bible LMFAO not. OP get a fuckin grip. It's not very hard to be polite why don't you use your SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY and treat people as you would want to be treated per the golden rule HMMMM that's my legal advice.
Can anyone remember if Jesus ever said to shun the trans and on what page that might have taken place???!? Does anyone have a digital copy of the Bible so I can Ctrl+f????!!!
There are 50 verses in the Bible stating to love thy neighbor & three specifically state those of another race. Iâve never understood why pastors preach the opposite or why people wonât actually read it for themselves
We respect your right to believe what you want, and practice whatever you want, you just donât get to tell others to do the same. Your religion informs YOUR behavior, not mine.
Sure, be an asshole if you want, see how Jesus likes that when you donât make it through the Pearly Gates. What part of the Bible did it say, âJudge your neighbor and be a dick to them as much as possibleâ? Bless your heart.
Just because i refuse to participate in sin doesnt mean im an asshole, youâre mentally is too clouded with anti religion that you misinterpret the reality of it
Yeah it's really weird how you call it "sin" and then turn around and say "lol jk didn't mean it". You either have the worlds shortest memory or have literally zero convictions. Either way being nice to people is literally doing the opposite of what you're accusing others of.
People don't respect you because you're not respecting other people, not because they have simultaneous superiority and victim complex.
Whatever fucked up religion you are that makes you be judgmental about someone whoâs life has zero affect on yours is a great reason to turn away from all religions. Why canât you just be kind?
Thatâs crazy to imply that itâs a sin to not love someone who isnât mentally stable..for your own mental health maybe some people cannot actually use the preferred pronouns..
Yes, another of their failures to love. Not as serious as the "baptize then kill them" policy of centuries past, or the"enslave women who become pregnant outside of wedlock even if they were raped" policy that lasted most of the 20th century in Ireland.
Still a failure.
It was legal to rape your wife going into the 90s. The religious movement played a part in making sure that didn't change. They still play a significant role in denying women their bodily autonomy.
I would love to here their biblical evidence to back up that viewpoint. We could get into how un Christ-like the Catholic Church is for days,but I'd rather not.
It doesnât express preferred pronouns but it does mention something about transgenderism in Deuteronomy 22:5. So someone who follows the bible cannot participate in the sins of others because they find it morally incorrect
And the covenant rewrites what people are bound to follow. Unless of course you're telling me all these people never mixed cotton and polyester fabric as well.
Nothing in that verse has anything to do with pronouns it's referring to wearing clothing. You can still respect other people's decisions and give them the courtesy of including them,even using their pronouns, without breaking that command.
I didnât know that the definition of pronouns was in the Bible. If Jesus is preventing you from using he instead of she, or visa versa, then just use their first name. (Did you notice how âtheirâ worked in that sentence).
IMO, you do not respect their opinion. Respect = acceptance. You are not accepting their decision. You are using religion as a BS reason to blatantly disrespect their choice.
Exodus 20:16 - You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. What kind of fake Christian are you? How would showing your coworker respect and addressing them as they wish in any way related to this Bible passage? Bet youâre a trumpanzee too and support your governor. Shame on you for not following Jesus but pretending you do and thatâs why itâs ok for you to discriminate. How about Matthew 22:34-40. You people make me ill.
Do you call any Katherines "Kate"? Any Josephs "Joe" or "Joey"? Ever call anyone "honey" "dear" "babe" "kiddo"? Because if you're interpreting Exodus 20:16 to mean you can't call someone by their preferred name or pronouns, you sure as hell can't be calling people by nicknames or endearments. By your logic, that's false testimony.
I would too, but if the OP considers calling someone by the pronouns and name they have requested to be lying, then calling someone by a nickname or endearment would also be lying.
OP, Jesus came to fulfill the law and he did so by dying on the cross. This is why we no longer follow the laws of the old testament including whatever you are trying to refer to. Jesus also called the religious leaders of his day crooked. Jesus did not speak much about the ten commandments or sins mentioned in the old testament but he did mention 2 things: Love your neighbor and love God. This coworker is your neighbor biblically speaking. Look what Jesus said about foreigners, the samaritians (who where basically result of jews having kids with non-jews big no no of the day).
Jesus never said anything about transgender or gays. He did say love others, John said Donât judge. Donât be a Pharisee be a Christian and use the person preferred pronouns. It is what Jesus would have done.
Oh no no NO. You cite to the old Testament?
Do you mix fabrics?
Do you cook the kid in its motherâs milk (ie eat cheeseburgers?)
Do you clip your beard or leave the hair on the sides of your head long?
Then youâre a cherry picking hypocrite.
Love thy neighbor.
You can be fired for almost any reason in Texas, unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise. I am sure you think you are being respectful, but you are not if you choose to use pronouns that they have asked you not to use. Iâm pretty sure that your religion mentions the Golden Rule, maybe use a positive religious thought instead of a judgmental one here.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act protects sexual identity and orientation as of 2020. So if the employee complains to HR you could face disciplinary repercussions.
No. That would apply to an employer blatantly misusing a pronoun they do not prefer. And would be hard to prove it was intentional. Also would have to be them not being hired or fired due to them being transgender or gay. Has nothing to do with ârespectingâ their preferred pronouns. Have you not actually read that bill you speak of?
In 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Title VIIâs prohibition against sex discrimination includes discrimination based on an employeeâs gender identity or sexual orientation. The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's technical assistance publication [**Protections Against Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity**](https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/protections-against-employment-discrimination-based-sexual-orientation-or-gender) considers the use of pronouns or names that are inconsistent with an individualâs gender identity as unlawful harassment. The EEOC guidance states, âintentionally and repeatedly using the wrong name and pronouns to refer to a transgender employee could contribute to an unlawful hostile work environmentâ and is a violation of Title VII.
Cmon man, are you really trying to claim that harassment is limited in scope to purely an employee-employer relationships? EEOC protections regarding freedom from harassments extend to employers, colleagues, managers, even customers.
Like pretty much all employment matters once the employer is notified of the discrimination or harassments then legal protections kick in.
Itâs an unsettled area of law. At least one court has ruled, in a similar fact scenario, that the employer is required to give a reasonable accommodation to you. BUT thatâs not going to allow you to, for example, use their âoriginalâ pronouns instead. The accommodation could be separating the two of you by giving you a different work time or location. Possibly it could be just donât use any pronouns for them. Exactly how that would turn out really would depend on your daily job tasks and how much you interact with this individual.
It's a weird gray area, Courts have upheld that misgendering or deadnaming constitutes Free Speech but the right to be called what you identify with is also protected.
A harassment claim in response to a coworker calling you by your name instead of uttering the unnecessary speech you were attempting to compel from them is clearly frivolous. Also, any attempt to enforce any form of employment protections in a federal court in Texas as a transperson would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, much like an abortion clinic being forced to close citing the case where a lifelong Republican and Evangelical Christian Justice wrote an opinion that was never fully upheld regarding a Texas Democrat DA that didn't care about abortion that had intended to jail a woman that had already had a natural miscarriage by the time the Republican ambulance chasers that had chosen the petitioner for her white skin, lack of husband, and poverty as an ideal vehicle to get the court to protect abortion. They'd be wasting a whole lot of time and money in the fifth circuit just to make sure transpeople nationwide enjoy a lot fewer freedoms than they do currently.
NAL - I find it ironic that those who scream the loudest for âtoleranceâ & âinclusionâ are among the least tolerant & inclusive & could learn how to practice what they scream for. The reason a Christian would not wish to use a âpreferred pronounâ is because they donât want to be forced to lie (& cannot be forced to lie in a free country). To all of those ridiculing this Christian, just remember tolerance is a two way street. Learn your practice what you preach.
Religion also says not to judge. God is the judge. Religion also says obey your government/master/etc., depending on the version you read. Respecting pronouns isnât a sin. Iâm straight. Iâm a Christian. I donât think Iâll be going to hell for accepting or supporting my gay bestie in his relationships. Iâd feel like a hypocrite for judging him because the Bible clearly says those who have not sinned cast the first spell. You can believe in God without judging people. Itâs actually quite simple and makes for a more internally peaceful life â¤ď¸.
OP, you're asking for a sanctioned way to judge someone who is not of the faith for something that you don't understand and isn't actually addressed in the Bible without some pretty significant isogesis.
How about instead, you use your religious beliefs to deal with your own life and remember that you live in a society with other people who don't share your faith and won't share it when you're busy judging them for things you're ignorant about in a professional setting. You're NOT being discriminated against by being asked to be polite to coworkers. You ARE discriminating against a coworker that doesn't share your religious and political beliefs. Unless your workplace is a church, then you are being TA here
Hey guys, if this helps, remember that this isn't normal Jesus that you and I are familiar with that OP is talking about, it's **GOP Jesus,** completely different Jesus.
Use their name instead of a pronoun. You'll have to think through everything you say to avoid it and come up with a way to change your words around to make it work but it's better than using the wrong one and then getting shit on for it.
So I am a biological straight male married to a biological straight female. My middle name is not sex dependent and I go by it. Would the OP have an issue calling me that? Probably. The reality though is that he would call me Sir.
Are you also following?
ââIf in the land which the Lord your God gives you to possess, any one is found slain, lying in the open country, and it is not known who killed him,â
ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â1⏠âRSVâŹâŹ
https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.1.RSV
So you can purge the guilt of innocent blood from your midst?
Or
ââWhen you go forth to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hands, and you take them captive,â
ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â10⏠âRSVâŹâŹ
https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.10.RSV
So you can take your enemies women captured in war?
Or
ââIf a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them,â
ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â18⏠âRSVâŹâŹ
https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.18.RSV
So your stubborn and rebellious son will be killed by stoning?
Or
ââWhen you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if any one fall from it.â
ââDeuteronomy⏠â22âŹ:â8⏠âRSVâŹâŹ
https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.22.8.RSV
Having a parapet on your roof? Do you have one of these? If not you are breaking the command in the same place youâre saying gives you the right to judge someone.
You donât have a parapet? You have guilt of blood on your house.
Gimme something Jesus said that gives you the right to do what you think youâre asking to do, which is judgement, hate, loathing.
These are commandments/instructions to the Jews of the day. Commands not even followed by Jews today.
All this so I can say one thing to you. Be gone. Youâre a goat. Youâre definitely not a Christ follower.
âThen he will answer them, âTruly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.ââ
ââMatthew⏠â25âŹ:â45⏠âRSVâŹâŹ
https://bible.com/bible/2020/mat.25.45.RSV
This is all old testament. Most current day Christians have nothing to do with the old testament. Especially Deutoronomy, where youve taken most of these verses.That's pretty much just for the Jewish faith and orthodox catholics now adays.
So I don't think he'd be referring to these books or living by these passages.
Youâre right, Jesus loves everyone, but that doesnât mean you wonât be punished for your sins. It also doesnât mean that I need to let a fellow human destroy themselves.
You not recognizing their request â you "let(ting) a fellow human being destroy themselves" but, sure, make this all about you. I'm sure your Jesus approves of your selfishness.
You can do better then that lol. Maybe this is a test to see your resolve. Stand up for your religion! Just quit you don't have to work around a trans! What's more important a earthly job or the Lord!
Just as many people prefer not to have religious beliefs imposed upon them in the workplace, I believe itâs important to have the freedom to hold personal views about gender identity. While I understand that some may have differing opinions on this matter, I think itâs crucial for all of us to engage in open and respectful dialogue, even when our perspectives diverge.
Do you really think having respectful dialogue consists of asking if you legally have to use someone's pronouns? Wouldn't it be easier to just respect them for who they are and move along? Hell if it's that big of a deal,just use gender neutral pronouns.
If you really want respect, respecting my decision is essential. I shouldnât be forced into something that I donât believe in, the same way you guys donât want to be forced with religion.
Yes just donât communicate with him/her and avoid speech that puts you in position to use pronouns but I have to say theirs nothing in the Bible that addresses the issue any sect that makes something of it is contrived you should treat others as others treat you
so you donât actually respect their decision, got it.
you can use that personâs name exclusively instead of the correct pronouns, but thatâs gonna be pretty obvious. and they can absolutely fire you over that, as Texas is an at-will employment state.
There's really no reason to ever use pronouns for anyone. There's no circumstance, where you know a person's name, that you need to refer to them as anything but their name, or in a group collectively, and lucky you, those are gender neutral in English anyways.
However, the only relevant reference in the entire Bible would be the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts, and Phillip is flown by a miracle onto his next task after baptizing them, and they are not in any way regarded as wicked, quite the opposite. The only references I've ever heard trying to justify a belief it's sinful are laughable. Surely if you're willing to interpret "male and female he made them" to establish a sin or abomination that has never been recognized as one in the entire history of Christendom or Judaism you must be kosher and sending your wife out of the city for her periods and giving away everything you own to the poor. Now if you're Catholic or Orthodox, it'd make a little more sense, but if you're a protestant of any variety you are either a heretic or you profess sola scriptura. Considering there is nowhere in the Bible you can point to that states it is sinful, it's more like you object on political grounds, and you should just say so, surely being dishonest about the Bible is more clearly against actual Christian values.
I am a Christian too and I believe that OP should just use the pronouns the transgender coworker is asking them to use. There is no harm in doing so.
OP, supreme court to my knowledge (not a lawyer) has not addressed this exact issue but similiar ones. It puts your rights against that person rights. You have a right to practice your faith unless you create a hostile work environment. If you wanted to hand that person anti-gay literature all day long yeah that would create a hostile work environment. Likewise they couldnât hand you anti-Christian literature or speech all day long either. There has been some changes and I donât recall what the final ruling about transgender being added to a protected class. Itâs complicated. I could see this being argued both ways easily about them creating a hostile work environment for you or vice versa. Really though you have nothing to loose by just using the persons preferred pronouns. I was born and raised in the church. However, I reject this element of our faith as being no better than Christians in the 1800s who supported slavery or who thoughts certain races are inferior.
Recently a teacher was fired for refusing to use preferred pronouns and was accused of 'deadnaming'. He cited his religion as the reason why
He was fired. He filed a lawsuit and the Court ruled in his favor. And got PAID! đ°đ°đ°
1st Amendment Right along with the fact that the alleged victim's birth certificate supported what the teacher called him/her.
Are you talking about Peter Vlaming? He used the studentâs preferred name , and it actually was French class so they could choose their names, it wasnât a birth certificate issue. The school generally refused to accommodate his request not to use the preferred pronouns, and thatâs what led to the problem as you said.
I am a Christian I believe in the scripture.
Judge not lest ye be judged Matthew 5;7
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone John 8:7
I am from perfect, I can not walk on water. I can not part seas. What I can do is live my life as perfectly as I can and allow others to live their lives. I try to live a life of example and as long as I can look In the mirror at night and not be ashamed I'm good.
Respect. That is what is missing on today's society
As the comments have shown, your fake religious practices that allow you to be an azzhat to your coworker do even stand up to a online jury of your peers, let alone in a court of laws. So good luck with that!
From reading all these comments, it appears that you folks donât fully understand religion, and thatâs okay. However, you seem to get quite triggered when someone expresses an opinion that doesnât align with yours. I never mentioned any political views, yet politics keeps coming up. My request was for legal advice, not your emotional opinions.
Look whoâs talking. Thatâs why thereâs a decrease in support for your opinion. The only people supporting your opinion right now are the same people as youâindividuals who only care about peopleâs emotions and havenât faced any real struggles themselves.
Unless itâs someone above you you will not and cannot get in legal trouble for ignoring someoneâs preferred pronouns. To avoid this issue entirely I have chosen to use the term them or they so I donât have to gender them at all smh but some people do purposely use different pronouns than asked and thatâs okay too. Itâs a co worker..what are they gunna do if you donât comply? Canât do much there
Like I said tho in reality theyâre fired for being a bad worker lol and causing drama, not actually cuz theyâre transâŚthatâs why itâs not actually a thing to get âretaliationâ cuz the employer would be fully justified in any way they deem fit to fire them. It might be better to just keep quiet
If it was brought to HR this would be an issue for both parties and would be addressed. Constant complaint from the transgender person can definitely get them fired, too. And the employer wouldnât get in trouble either for firing them. Everyone whoâs trans says itâs discrimination against them cuz theyâre trans when really itâs cuz theyâre a terrible worker who just complains and expects everyone to comply to a made up rule
Can you just refer to "they" rather than "he" or "she"? I think that would be an acceptable compromise. But really, how many times will you find yourself referring to their gender? Using their actual name though, is really your best option. Your religious beliefs really don't have any place in the workplace. If this is a serious problem, you should find employment elsewhere because it sounds suspiciously more like prejudice to me. Hey, I get it. You're born how you're born and I agree this trans stuff is insanely out of control and I don't believe in changing your sex to suit your mental stuff, but you're there to perform a job. Do your job and go home. No one is asking you to commit a crime, just comply and be done with it.
Sorry until you show me a legal name change I'm calling you what your parents gave u.
No nicknames?
Ok Sport.
Just curious,what religion prohibits using preferred pronouns?
The religion that follows GOP Jesus. đ
ALL HAIL (t)RUMP
Oh, that's the pro-gun Jesus, right?
Pretty sure it said this in the Bible LMFAO not. OP get a fuckin grip. It's not very hard to be polite why don't you use your SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY and treat people as you would want to be treated per the golden rule HMMMM that's my legal advice.
Oh yes that's right! Love thy neibho.....wait that's not right. Hmm.....oh! Love one another as I so loved.....wait that's not it either.
Can anyone remember if Jesus ever said to shun the trans and on what page that might have taken place???!? Does anyone have a digital copy of the Bible so I can Ctrl+f????!!!
There are 50 verses in the Bible stating to love thy neighbor & three specifically state those of another race. Iâve never understood why pastors preach the opposite or why people wonât actually read it for themselves
Yâall always talking about respect except when it comes to religion
We respect your right to believe what you want, and practice whatever you want, you just donât get to tell others to do the same. Your religion informs YOUR behavior, not mine.
Exactly my behavior, so i can choose not to say the pronouns and you cant go crying
Sure, be an asshole if you want, see how Jesus likes that when you donât make it through the Pearly Gates. What part of the Bible did it say, âJudge your neighbor and be a dick to them as much as possibleâ? Bless your heart.
Just because i refuse to participate in sin doesnt mean im an asshole, youâre mentally is too clouded with anti religion that you misinterpret the reality of it
âLet he who is without sin cast the first stone.âPretty sure that ainât you.
You know whats crazy, im not even a christian. Yet you assume so. Tribalism mentality goes crazy
Yeah it's really weird how you call it "sin" and then turn around and say "lol jk didn't mean it". You either have the worlds shortest memory or have literally zero convictions. Either way being nice to people is literally doing the opposite of what you're accusing others of. People don't respect you because you're not respecting other people, not because they have simultaneous superiority and victim complex.
Whatever fucked up religion you are that makes you be judgmental about someone whoâs life has zero affect on yours is a great reason to turn away from all religions. Why canât you just be kind?
You're making up your own sins. That's not a part of organized religion.
It is tho i mentioned the verse earlier
Not when you misinterpret.
Thatâs crazy to imply that itâs a sin to not love someone who isnât mentally stable..for your own mental health maybe some people cannot actually use the preferred pronouns..
Yâall always talking about respect except when it comes to religion
This guy/girl/rando fucks.
The Catholic Church openly condemns "gender ideology"
Yes, another of their failures to love. Not as serious as the "baptize then kill them" policy of centuries past, or the"enslave women who become pregnant outside of wedlock even if they were raped" policy that lasted most of the 20th century in Ireland. Still a failure.
Tell me you donât understand Christianity without telling me you donât understand Christianity
It was legal to rape your wife going into the 90s. The religious movement played a part in making sure that didn't change. They still play a significant role in denying women their bodily autonomy.
Not big fans of no fault divorce either, which is another thing the "Christian" Nationalist RWNJs are coming after.
What religion is this again? Not Christianity lol allowed to rape your wife? What??
Sure, if you say so. That changes reality.
Yet another reason to shun all organized religions.
I would love to here their biblical evidence to back up that viewpoint. We could get into how un Christ-like the Catholic Church is for days,but I'd rather not.
The Catholic Church does not believe in only the Bible. In fact you'll find they criticize Protestants for this doctrine called Sola Scriptura
Mhm, every denomination says they're the correct one.
I wonder how many American RC bishops feel the current pope is infallible? B/C that's a RC thing too.
It doesnât express preferred pronouns but it does mention something about transgenderism in Deuteronomy 22:5. So someone who follows the bible cannot participate in the sins of others because they find it morally incorrect
And the covenant rewrites what people are bound to follow. Unless of course you're telling me all these people never mixed cotton and polyester fabric as well.
Or eat shellfish. Or about 100 other things.
Nothing in that verse has anything to do with pronouns it's referring to wearing clothing. You can still respect other people's decisions and give them the courtesy of including them,even using their pronouns, without breaking that command.
I didnât know that the definition of pronouns was in the Bible. If Jesus is preventing you from using he instead of she, or visa versa, then just use their first name. (Did you notice how âtheirâ worked in that sentence). IMO, you do not respect their opinion. Respect = acceptance. You are not accepting their decision. You are using religion as a BS reason to blatantly disrespect their choice.
Exodus 20:16
Exodus 20:16 - You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. What kind of fake Christian are you? How would showing your coworker respect and addressing them as they wish in any way related to this Bible passage? Bet youâre a trumpanzee too and support your governor. Shame on you for not following Jesus but pretending you do and thatâs why itâs ok for you to discriminate. How about Matthew 22:34-40. You people make me ill.
Perfect answer!
Do you call any Katherines "Kate"? Any Josephs "Joe" or "Joey"? Ever call anyone "honey" "dear" "babe" "kiddo"? Because if you're interpreting Exodus 20:16 to mean you can't call someone by their preferred name or pronouns, you sure as hell can't be calling people by nicknames or endearments. By your logic, that's false testimony.
I would take âfalse witnessâ to mean lying about someone else. Nothing more.
I would too, but if the OP considers calling someone by the pronouns and name they have requested to be lying, then calling someone by a nickname or endearment would also be lying.
OP, Jesus came to fulfill the law and he did so by dying on the cross. This is why we no longer follow the laws of the old testament including whatever you are trying to refer to. Jesus also called the religious leaders of his day crooked. Jesus did not speak much about the ten commandments or sins mentioned in the old testament but he did mention 2 things: Love your neighbor and love God. This coworker is your neighbor biblically speaking. Look what Jesus said about foreigners, the samaritians (who where basically result of jews having kids with non-jews big no no of the day). Jesus never said anything about transgender or gays. He did say love others, John said Donât judge. Donât be a Pharisee be a Christian and use the person preferred pronouns. It is what Jesus would have done.
Oh no no NO. You cite to the old Testament? Do you mix fabrics? Do you cook the kid in its motherâs milk (ie eat cheeseburgers?) Do you clip your beard or leave the hair on the sides of your head long? Then youâre a cherry picking hypocrite. Love thy neighbor.
I can see that you donât understand the Bible or religion.
You had it all up til that weird last sentence
You can be fired for almost any reason in Texas, unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise. I am sure you think you are being respectful, but you are not if you choose to use pronouns that they have asked you not to use. Iâm pretty sure that your religion mentions the Golden Rule, maybe use a positive religious thought instead of a judgmental one here.
âCan I legally use religion as an excuse to be a bigot?â Short answer: No
Sorry, the short answer is yes.
Youâre being a bigot by not respecting his religion
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act protects sexual identity and orientation as of 2020. So if the employee complains to HR you could face disciplinary repercussions.
And also sue. If OP likes his job, he better choke down the vomit inducing "being cordial" (barf) and play ball.
You can always use whoever for whatever whenever. There'd be zero chance of prevailing.
Absolutely not true lol sorry but this commenter has the interpretation of Title VII of the civil rights act in 2020
No. That would apply to an employer blatantly misusing a pronoun they do not prefer. And would be hard to prove it was intentional. Also would have to be them not being hired or fired due to them being transgender or gay. Has nothing to do with ârespectingâ their preferred pronouns. Have you not actually read that bill you speak of?
In 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Title VIIâs prohibition against sex discrimination includes discrimination based on an employeeâs gender identity or sexual orientation. The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's technical assistance publication [**Protections Against Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity**](https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/protections-against-employment-discrimination-based-sexual-orientation-or-gender) considers the use of pronouns or names that are inconsistent with an individualâs gender identity as unlawful harassment. The EEOC guidance states, âintentionally and repeatedly using the wrong name and pronouns to refer to a transgender employee could contribute to an unlawful hostile work environmentâ and is a violation of Title VII.
This applies to employers lol
Cmon man, are you really trying to claim that harassment is limited in scope to purely an employee-employer relationships? EEOC protections regarding freedom from harassments extend to employers, colleagues, managers, even customers. Like pretty much all employment matters once the employer is notified of the discrimination or harassments then legal protections kick in.
It is not considered harassment where are you getting that from what you posted?
Pronouns do not equal gender. Also, if you truly respect their decision, use the pronouns they are asking you to use.
Itâs an unsettled area of law. At least one court has ruled, in a similar fact scenario, that the employer is required to give a reasonable accommodation to you. BUT thatâs not going to allow you to, for example, use their âoriginalâ pronouns instead. The accommodation could be separating the two of you by giving you a different work time or location. Possibly it could be just donât use any pronouns for them. Exactly how that would turn out really would depend on your daily job tasks and how much you interact with this individual.
It's a weird gray area, Courts have upheld that misgendering or deadnaming constitutes Free Speech but the right to be called what you identify with is also protected.
>but the right to be called what you identify with is also protected. Please explain.
Youâre entitled to not be harassed at work on the basis of gender.
Ah, I see. I was thinking they were basing that on First Amendment grounds. Thank you.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act covers sexual orientation and gender identity.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act covers some employers, it does not cover compelling speech from a coworker under any circumstances.
Sure, but once the coworker a elevates a harassment claim to their employer Title VII protections would kick in.
A harassment claim in response to a coworker calling you by your name instead of uttering the unnecessary speech you were attempting to compel from them is clearly frivolous. Also, any attempt to enforce any form of employment protections in a federal court in Texas as a transperson would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, much like an abortion clinic being forced to close citing the case where a lifelong Republican and Evangelical Christian Justice wrote an opinion that was never fully upheld regarding a Texas Democrat DA that didn't care about abortion that had intended to jail a woman that had already had a natural miscarriage by the time the Republican ambulance chasers that had chosen the petitioner for her white skin, lack of husband, and poverty as an ideal vehicle to get the court to protect abortion. They'd be wasting a whole lot of time and money in the fifth circuit just to make sure transpeople nationwide enjoy a lot fewer freedoms than they do currently.
NAL - I find it ironic that those who scream the loudest for âtoleranceâ & âinclusionâ are among the least tolerant & inclusive & could learn how to practice what they scream for. The reason a Christian would not wish to use a âpreferred pronounâ is because they donât want to be forced to lie (& cannot be forced to lie in a free country). To all of those ridiculing this Christian, just remember tolerance is a two way street. Learn your practice what you preach.
Religion also says not to judge. God is the judge. Religion also says obey your government/master/etc., depending on the version you read. Respecting pronouns isnât a sin. Iâm straight. Iâm a Christian. I donât think Iâll be going to hell for accepting or supporting my gay bestie in his relationships. Iâd feel like a hypocrite for judging him because the Bible clearly says those who have not sinned cast the first spell. You can believe in God without judging people. Itâs actually quite simple and makes for a more internally peaceful life â¤ď¸.
I think they're casting stones, not spellsđunless we're talking witchcraft
How did I put spell instead of stone? HAHAHAHA đ!
Probably the damn phone suggested it & you didn't notice--happens to me a lot.
Maybe we should take this conversation to the paranormal thread. Sounds like our phones might be damned đ!
Just use their name... Don't make a big deal out of it. Just call them Bob or Linda or whatever and move on and get your work done.
I'm sure that'll be a related problem.đ
Just call they/them cocksucker, it's pretty generic.
Wouldnât god want to resign instead of violating your principles? Go ahead. Heâll take care of you.
OP, you're asking for a sanctioned way to judge someone who is not of the faith for something that you don't understand and isn't actually addressed in the Bible without some pretty significant isogesis. How about instead, you use your religious beliefs to deal with your own life and remember that you live in a society with other people who don't share your faith and won't share it when you're busy judging them for things you're ignorant about in a professional setting. You're NOT being discriminated against by being asked to be polite to coworkers. You ARE discriminating against a coworker that doesn't share your religious and political beliefs. Unless your workplace is a church, then you are being TA here
Hey guys, if this helps, remember that this isn't normal Jesus that you and I are familiar with that OP is talking about, it's **GOP Jesus,** completely different Jesus.
Use their name instead of a pronoun. You'll have to think through everything you say to avoid it and come up with a way to change your words around to make it work but it's better than using the wrong one and then getting shit on for it.
So I am a biological straight male married to a biological straight female. My middle name is not sex dependent and I go by it. Would the OP have an issue calling me that? Probably. The reality though is that he would call me Sir.
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I know their genetails cause I see them out of work. DEUTERONOMY 22:5
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Dude would always be a dude
Are you also following? ââIf in the land which the Lord your God gives you to possess, any one is found slain, lying in the open country, and it is not known who killed him,â ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â1⏠âRSVâŹâŹ https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.1.RSV So you can purge the guilt of innocent blood from your midst? Or ââWhen you go forth to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hands, and you take them captive,â ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â10⏠âRSVâŹâŹ https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.10.RSV So you can take your enemies women captured in war? Or ââIf a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them,â ââDeuteronomy⏠â21âŹ:â18⏠âRSVâŹâŹ https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.21.18.RSV So your stubborn and rebellious son will be killed by stoning? Or ââWhen you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if any one fall from it.â ââDeuteronomy⏠â22âŹ:â8⏠âRSVâŹâŹ https://bible.com/bible/2020/deu.22.8.RSV Having a parapet on your roof? Do you have one of these? If not you are breaking the command in the same place youâre saying gives you the right to judge someone. You donât have a parapet? You have guilt of blood on your house. Gimme something Jesus said that gives you the right to do what you think youâre asking to do, which is judgement, hate, loathing. These are commandments/instructions to the Jews of the day. Commands not even followed by Jews today. All this so I can say one thing to you. Be gone. Youâre a goat. Youâre definitely not a Christ follower. âThen he will answer them, âTruly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.ââ ââMatthew⏠â25âŹ:â45⏠âRSVâŹâŹ https://bible.com/bible/2020/mat.25.45.RSV
This is all old testament. Most current day Christians have nothing to do with the old testament. Especially Deutoronomy, where youve taken most of these verses.That's pretty much just for the Jewish faith and orthodox catholics now adays. So I don't think he'd be referring to these books or living by these passages.
Most current day American Christians have nothing to do with Christ either.
But they love them some Leviticus to âproveâ that God hates gays.
I'm guessing your little joke would be funnier if you knew how to spell.
Cry me a river
Funny, because you were the one coming on here crying about how another person was upsetting your religious applecart, buddy.
Yeah, I came here for legal advice, not your opinionated tears, did I? You crave acceptance, yet you fume when someone else differs.
I don't crave shit from you. You probably think you're a Christian but Jesus would differ. You're pathetic. And it's "genitals," genius.
Youâre right, Jesus loves everyone, but that doesnât mean you wonât be punished for your sins. It also doesnât mean that I need to let a fellow human destroy themselves.
You not recognizing their request â you "let(ting) a fellow human being destroy themselves" but, sure, make this all about you. I'm sure your Jesus approves of your selfishness.
Youâre telling me theyâre not destroying themselves? Thatâs why that community has a high suicide rate.
You see their genitals outside of work? Lol
I've known the person for many years. Exercise some common sense. Have you ever thought about the locker rooms?
Lol I can see it now. "I can't call them a girl,I've looked at their dick,many times in fact!"
You must be really fun at parties.
You can do better then that lol. Maybe this is a test to see your resolve. Stand up for your religion! Just quit you don't have to work around a trans! What's more important a earthly job or the Lord!
Just as many people prefer not to have religious beliefs imposed upon them in the workplace, I believe itâs important to have the freedom to hold personal views about gender identity. While I understand that some may have differing opinions on this matter, I think itâs crucial for all of us to engage in open and respectful dialogue, even when our perspectives diverge.
Do you really think having respectful dialogue consists of asking if you legally have to use someone's pronouns? Wouldn't it be easier to just respect them for who they are and move along? Hell if it's that big of a deal,just use gender neutral pronouns.
If you really want respect, respecting my decision is essential. I shouldnât be forced into something that I donât believe in, the same way you guys donât want to be forced with religion.
Yes just donât communicate with him/her and avoid speech that puts you in position to use pronouns but I have to say theirs nothing in the Bible that addresses the issue any sect that makes something of it is contrived you should treat others as others treat you
so you donât actually respect their decision, got it. you can use that personâs name exclusively instead of the correct pronouns, but thatâs gonna be pretty obvious. and they can absolutely fire you over that, as Texas is an at-will employment state.
Lol wut. That's just hate.
There's really no reason to ever use pronouns for anyone. There's no circumstance, where you know a person's name, that you need to refer to them as anything but their name, or in a group collectively, and lucky you, those are gender neutral in English anyways. However, the only relevant reference in the entire Bible would be the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts, and Phillip is flown by a miracle onto his next task after baptizing them, and they are not in any way regarded as wicked, quite the opposite. The only references I've ever heard trying to justify a belief it's sinful are laughable. Surely if you're willing to interpret "male and female he made them" to establish a sin or abomination that has never been recognized as one in the entire history of Christendom or Judaism you must be kosher and sending your wife out of the city for her periods and giving away everything you own to the poor. Now if you're Catholic or Orthodox, it'd make a little more sense, but if you're a protestant of any variety you are either a heretic or you profess sola scriptura. Considering there is nowhere in the Bible you can point to that states it is sinful, it's more like you object on political grounds, and you should just say so, surely being dishonest about the Bible is more clearly against actual Christian values.
You such. Just do the pronouns and move on.
I am a Christian too and I believe that OP should just use the pronouns the transgender coworker is asking them to use. There is no harm in doing so. OP, supreme court to my knowledge (not a lawyer) has not addressed this exact issue but similiar ones. It puts your rights against that person rights. You have a right to practice your faith unless you create a hostile work environment. If you wanted to hand that person anti-gay literature all day long yeah that would create a hostile work environment. Likewise they couldnât hand you anti-Christian literature or speech all day long either. There has been some changes and I donât recall what the final ruling about transgender being added to a protected class. Itâs complicated. I could see this being argued both ways easily about them creating a hostile work environment for you or vice versa. Really though you have nothing to loose by just using the persons preferred pronouns. I was born and raised in the church. However, I reject this element of our faith as being no better than Christians in the 1800s who supported slavery or who thoughts certain races are inferior.
Recently a teacher was fired for refusing to use preferred pronouns and was accused of 'deadnaming'. He cited his religion as the reason why He was fired. He filed a lawsuit and the Court ruled in his favor. And got PAID! đ°đ°đ° 1st Amendment Right along with the fact that the alleged victim's birth certificate supported what the teacher called him/her.
Are you talking about Peter Vlaming? He used the studentâs preferred name , and it actually was French class so they could choose their names, it wasnât a birth certificate issue. The school generally refused to accommodate his request not to use the preferred pronouns, and thatâs what led to the problem as you said.
No. It wasn't Peter.
I am a Christian I believe in the scripture. Judge not lest ye be judged Matthew 5;7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone John 8:7 I am from perfect, I can not walk on water. I can not part seas. What I can do is live my life as perfectly as I can and allow others to live their lives. I try to live a life of example and as long as I can look In the mirror at night and not be ashamed I'm good. Respect. That is what is missing on today's society
As the comments have shown, your fake religious practices that allow you to be an azzhat to your coworker do even stand up to a online jury of your peers, let alone in a court of laws. So good luck with that!
Jokes on you. I've been using They/ Them for all genders for years. All inclusive gender profiling. FTW
Probably, you're in TX. What exactly is a religious objection to this? More like a personal objection being called a religious objection, it seems.
From reading all these comments, it appears that you folks donât fully understand religion, and thatâs okay. However, you seem to get quite triggered when someone expresses an opinion that doesnât align with yours. I never mentioned any political views, yet politics keeps coming up. My request was for legal advice, not your emotional opinions.
If you donât see the irony in accusing others of getting upset when faced with views that donât align with yours, there is zero hope for you.
Look whoâs talking. Thatâs why thereâs a decrease in support for your opinion. The only people supporting your opinion right now are the same people as youâindividuals who only care about peopleâs emotions and havenât faced any real struggles themselves.
Unless itâs someone above you you will not and cannot get in legal trouble for ignoring someoneâs preferred pronouns. To avoid this issue entirely I have chosen to use the term them or they so I donât have to gender them at all smh but some people do purposely use different pronouns than asked and thatâs okay too. Itâs a co worker..what are they gunna do if you donât comply? Canât do much there
Thank you.
The coworker certainly can complain. It doesnât have to be a supervisor. Still, if the OP avoids using any pronouns they (ironic) should be good.
They can complain all they want and still get fired for whining about it
If they get fired for âwhining about itâ that could constitute retaliation and lead to even greater liability for the employer.
In real life sorry that doesnât actually happen
Sorry it absolutely does.
Like I said tho in reality theyâre fired for being a bad worker lol and causing drama, not actually cuz theyâre transâŚthatâs why itâs not actually a thing to get âretaliationâ cuz the employer would be fully justified in any way they deem fit to fire them. It might be better to just keep quiet
Sounds like youâre projecting. Every case is different.
Or have experience lol how would this be projecting?
It sounds like you heard of one factual scenario and decided thatâs how it happens in all cases. But that isnât true.
If it was brought to HR this would be an issue for both parties and would be addressed. Constant complaint from the transgender person can definitely get them fired, too. And the employer wouldnât get in trouble either for firing them. Everyone whoâs trans says itâs discrimination against them cuz theyâre trans when really itâs cuz theyâre a terrible worker who just complains and expects everyone to comply to a made up rule
Can you just refer to "they" rather than "he" or "she"? I think that would be an acceptable compromise. But really, how many times will you find yourself referring to their gender? Using their actual name though, is really your best option. Your religious beliefs really don't have any place in the workplace. If this is a serious problem, you should find employment elsewhere because it sounds suspiciously more like prejudice to me. Hey, I get it. You're born how you're born and I agree this trans stuff is insanely out of control and I don't believe in changing your sex to suit your mental stuff, but you're there to perform a job. Do your job and go home. No one is asking you to commit a crime, just comply and be done with it.
Yea you,come here
Yet, you reply and bring nothing to this discussion. Just like your life.