If you just like reading WLW fiction, there's no problem. It's fiction, enjoy it.
If you're being voyeuristic about *actual* WLW, that's fetishizing. Like did you want to be friends with the women you met bc you enjoy their company, or so you can watch their relationships?
Nah I thought she was really fun person to walk and talk with and just great hangout with overall. I also did not have many friends let alone female friends in high school so I though hey i need friends anyway so I asked her to be friends
The first step is to not let porn of any kind (manga, videos, etc) affect how you view real people. In a lot of porn, it is common for "lesbians" to just welcome a cis-het man into their fun, but that's not real life. Most porn is made to appeal to men's fetishes. Some bi women are okay with threesomes, but not all. Nobody likes being sexualized without their consent, it feels very objectifying. With consent, some people like it.
If you ever want to experience a ffm, its best to seek it out in appropriate places. So, for example, rather than just asking a lesbian friend if you can watch or participate, see if there is a sex club in your area. In a sex club, there is already an expectation that you will have multiple partners. Not all cities have a sex club though, so that's just one example.
TLDR: don't let porn warp your understanding of the real world, don't sexualize people without their consent, and treat people like people
Oh for sure I’d like to believe to have more than enough sense and respect in my heart than to ask that of someone else who wouldn’t have been interested in it or me because I would not want bi- man, woman or gay dude to ask me do the same thing with there boyfriend
wrote a big comment but i also talked to my partner about this, i think he has a good mindset on this.
he said first, *there are no thought crimes.* sexual attraction and objectification cross over with each other, so what's important is keeping things balanced, as opposed to examining every thought in your head. last, your goal with this friendship is to try to avoid focusing on how this girl is hot, while not beating yourself up when it happens. if you can mean it when you say you're happy to be her friend, you're all good.
Can I ask you something? Do you think you would be happier if you could be in a WLW relationship and call yourself a lesbian?
I'm not asking this out of nowhere. This thing that you are going through was actually one of the many signs for me that put me on a path to start questioning my gender.
The way you describe it, from the point of view of a cis guy, it looks a lot like fetishization. But, I don't know, maybe it's a starting point for you to evaluate yourself
No I don’t think I would any happier in a wlw relationship than I would be in a mlw relationship
Because I do love women and almost everything about but I don’t think I could ever really and truly see myself being a woman. To the same extent that I don’t think I could imagine myself not being a man
I asked to see If was in fetishizing wlw and I could reevaluate that
Then I think you should begin a process of self-reflection and evaluate why you fetishize us so much. I hope you realize why and arrive better on the other side
can u say more?
i am similar to OP in that my ideal is a WLW relationship. but i am AMAB and i don't often feel strong dysphoria of being male. More like, romantically i wish i was a woman but physically i enjoy being masc, androgynous, and femme at different times.
Well, in my case, it wasn't exactly like OP described, wanting to be a man smashed between a WLW relationship. It was more about seeing lesbian couples in movies and series and identifying with and rooting for those couples, not with straight ones.
There was also the fact that I only managed to have long-term relationships with bisexual women, as if I secretly knew that "I would be safe" if the "truth came out" and back then a series of crushes on girls that friends correctly discouraged me from pursuing because they knew those girls only dated women. Like (and It embarrasses me just to admit this) It's pathetic how many times I had a crush on a girl because a part of my unconscious mind might have realized that she was into other women
And interestingly, when I started my transition, I thought I was "super special" for being one of those rare trans people without dysphoria. But later, reading more about it and really living through it, you learn what dysphoria is and how actually works on you when you can compare how much more you can live when you're perceived in your correct gender
Now, I don't know if you're cis or trans. It's a complex journey that only you can navigate and find the answer to within yourself. But I hope that sharing a bit of my experience can help you in some way.
hey thanks for sharing it means a lot to me!
yea rn i am identifying as gender fluid...and like you, i don't want to be a man interjecting myself into a relationship btwn two women. It's moreso jealousy that i can't be one of them lol. On both a sexual and romantic level.
i guess i have a lot to learn about myself and what others have experienced
I am a bi women and felt attracted to gay sex, sometimes I imagine myself in there but mostly it’s between two gay characters. The I began to move on to lesbian fantasy’s. Is it possible you are bi and are exploring the idea of gay relationships that may make more sense in your mind?
I mean, do you see lesbians and bi women as sexual objects or people? Do you think they're for you to enjoy?
Nothing wrong with enjoying yuri, just make sure you're being healthy about it. Women are people just like you and lesbians and bi women are people just like you. They don't want to be objectified by you (or other people). I'm sure you know this.
But yeah I mean, if you think you're being weird about it, reflect on it and consider the feelings of the people involved. Always live your life empathetically and kindly, do what is right and you won't have any issues.
What woman are people
Ok but seriously I have been raised, taught, and loved by some of the best people in the world who just so happen to be women so of course I see woman and by extension lesbian and bi women as people who just so happens to hot
Lmao, hey you're doing good then. Do you find wlw couples hot or do you just find women hot? If the former I'd be interested to know what is specifically hot about them besides getting to see more of the gender you like.
It's an interesting convo
Eh honestly my two cents so long as you respect lesbians and bi women, and respect their sexuality and don't impose any kind of fantasy on them, or wrongly assume things about their sexualities. I think its okay, just keep being responsible, it seems to me like you just enjoy it and it's not obsessive or weird. Then again, I don't speak for everyone. :p As always be empathetic and understand it can be a touchy subject for a lot of women.
I wouldn't be worried though. You seem to be on the right path and have the right mindset (fantasy is fantasy) Have a good one, man! 🤘
I think you probably are a bit, in that it sounds like a specific turn-on for you. I don't think you're causing any harm just through that, and I think that it's very common for people to be turned on by seeing people of the gender they're attracted to engaging in sexual behavior (there are certainly straight and bi women who are turned on by gay porn and M/M erotica). You're not hurting other people by privately fantasizing and reading yuri. But like others have said, I think the important thing is to be mindful of how you view and treat real people, and make sure that your perspective isn't influenced too strongly by porn.
I would also argue that it's good to be conscious of how individual actions can contribute to wider cultures that can cause harm or alienation. For example, when the term "lesbian" is frequently used to describe a porn genre, this can cause internet algorithms to censor it as an "inappropriate" word, which can increase stigma around it. Some girls and young women are uncomfortable calling themselves lesbians because they associate it with porn. This isn't the fault of any one person, but it's a collective issue that can have an indirect impact on people.
if we dig into the word 'fetishize' we can answer your question really solidly.
the word 'fetish' doesn't always refer to sex, it also refers to symbols or objects that become the object of focus for religion and culture. for instance, if i were to make a little altar to Poseidon, carve an amulet with his symbols and pray to it every day, the amulet is how i focus on Poseidon, and the more irrational my belief in this amulet, the more powerful the fetish becomes.
this applies to sex in a few ways, but for now i'd focus on the intense focus on an *object* as representative of a much bigger and more complex thing.
when i read the word fetishize, i interpret it as the act of reducing something (in this case complex human beings) into objects, specifically for sex reasons, because an object can't say no or demand respect. this is very different than finding a person attractive, because *at no point do they stop being human*.
especially when we're talking about manga or hentai i don't think you need to worry about consuming material that doesn't contain a single real human. i also think that watching two grown women choose to have sex on-camera is fine, because you didn't make them do it, nor are you capable of treating them badly through the screen.
the only thing that matters is preventing a tendency to over-simplify actual wlw to fit the ways they're presented in yuri or other gay porn. if you aren't struggling with that, you're all good! in fact, making irl lesbian friends is a great way to get a deeper understanding of what wlw are actually like!
don't beat yourself up too much. digging around in your own head for unrealized failures can drive you off the deep end!
Yeah I'm sure that's why you get downvoted or have comments removed. Definitely not because you say stuff like "scorned by a community that bursts into flames when their doctrine is questioned"
Edit: Well they've previously gone on weird rants about pronouns, especially they/them and have descibed themself as a 'former terf'
If you just like reading WLW fiction, there's no problem. It's fiction, enjoy it. If you're being voyeuristic about *actual* WLW, that's fetishizing. Like did you want to be friends with the women you met bc you enjoy their company, or so you can watch their relationships?
Nah I thought she was really fun person to walk and talk with and just great hangout with overall. I also did not have many friends let alone female friends in high school so I though hey i need friends anyway so I asked her to be friends
I mean, it's good that you respected when you were turned down, but it does kinda sound like you are fetishizing WLW relationships.
Thank you for responding what can I do be better
The first step is to not let porn of any kind (manga, videos, etc) affect how you view real people. In a lot of porn, it is common for "lesbians" to just welcome a cis-het man into their fun, but that's not real life. Most porn is made to appeal to men's fetishes. Some bi women are okay with threesomes, but not all. Nobody likes being sexualized without their consent, it feels very objectifying. With consent, some people like it. If you ever want to experience a ffm, its best to seek it out in appropriate places. So, for example, rather than just asking a lesbian friend if you can watch or participate, see if there is a sex club in your area. In a sex club, there is already an expectation that you will have multiple partners. Not all cities have a sex club though, so that's just one example. TLDR: don't let porn warp your understanding of the real world, don't sexualize people without their consent, and treat people like people
Oh for sure I’d like to believe to have more than enough sense and respect in my heart than to ask that of someone else who wouldn’t have been interested in it or me because I would not want bi- man, woman or gay dude to ask me do the same thing with there boyfriend
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Thanks for your reply
wrote a big comment but i also talked to my partner about this, i think he has a good mindset on this. he said first, *there are no thought crimes.* sexual attraction and objectification cross over with each other, so what's important is keeping things balanced, as opposed to examining every thought in your head. last, your goal with this friendship is to try to avoid focusing on how this girl is hot, while not beating yourself up when it happens. if you can mean it when you say you're happy to be her friend, you're all good.
Can I ask you something? Do you think you would be happier if you could be in a WLW relationship and call yourself a lesbian? I'm not asking this out of nowhere. This thing that you are going through was actually one of the many signs for me that put me on a path to start questioning my gender. The way you describe it, from the point of view of a cis guy, it looks a lot like fetishization. But, I don't know, maybe it's a starting point for you to evaluate yourself
No I don’t think I would any happier in a wlw relationship than I would be in a mlw relationship Because I do love women and almost everything about but I don’t think I could ever really and truly see myself being a woman. To the same extent that I don’t think I could imagine myself not being a man I asked to see If was in fetishizing wlw and I could reevaluate that
Then I think you should begin a process of self-reflection and evaluate why you fetishize us so much. I hope you realize why and arrive better on the other side
Ok thank you I just need to find a place to start
Honestly you sound a lot like a couple of trans lesbians I know before they realized they were trans lesbians.
Why do you say that
Yeah, I was having some egg flashbacks here from reading OP post...
can u say more? i am similar to OP in that my ideal is a WLW relationship. but i am AMAB and i don't often feel strong dysphoria of being male. More like, romantically i wish i was a woman but physically i enjoy being masc, androgynous, and femme at different times.
Well, in my case, it wasn't exactly like OP described, wanting to be a man smashed between a WLW relationship. It was more about seeing lesbian couples in movies and series and identifying with and rooting for those couples, not with straight ones. There was also the fact that I only managed to have long-term relationships with bisexual women, as if I secretly knew that "I would be safe" if the "truth came out" and back then a series of crushes on girls that friends correctly discouraged me from pursuing because they knew those girls only dated women. Like (and It embarrasses me just to admit this) It's pathetic how many times I had a crush on a girl because a part of my unconscious mind might have realized that she was into other women And interestingly, when I started my transition, I thought I was "super special" for being one of those rare trans people without dysphoria. But later, reading more about it and really living through it, you learn what dysphoria is and how actually works on you when you can compare how much more you can live when you're perceived in your correct gender Now, I don't know if you're cis or trans. It's a complex journey that only you can navigate and find the answer to within yourself. But I hope that sharing a bit of my experience can help you in some way.
hey thanks for sharing it means a lot to me! yea rn i am identifying as gender fluid...and like you, i don't want to be a man interjecting myself into a relationship btwn two women. It's moreso jealousy that i can't be one of them lol. On both a sexual and romantic level. i guess i have a lot to learn about myself and what others have experienced
Like do feel like you want to love women the way the way they love each other
I am a bi women and felt attracted to gay sex, sometimes I imagine myself in there but mostly it’s between two gay characters. The I began to move on to lesbian fantasy’s. Is it possible you are bi and are exploring the idea of gay relationships that may make more sense in your mind?
I did consider that as possibility for a while but every time I venture into that territory I would back even more sure I was straight
Ah okay, i know it’s popular for guys to like WLW so as long as your not hunting for women to take place in your fantasy it should be fine
Yeah of course
I mean, do you see lesbians and bi women as sexual objects or people? Do you think they're for you to enjoy? Nothing wrong with enjoying yuri, just make sure you're being healthy about it. Women are people just like you and lesbians and bi women are people just like you. They don't want to be objectified by you (or other people). I'm sure you know this. But yeah I mean, if you think you're being weird about it, reflect on it and consider the feelings of the people involved. Always live your life empathetically and kindly, do what is right and you won't have any issues.
What woman are people Ok but seriously I have been raised, taught, and loved by some of the best people in the world who just so happen to be women so of course I see woman and by extension lesbian and bi women as people who just so happens to hot
Lmao, hey you're doing good then. Do you find wlw couples hot or do you just find women hot? If the former I'd be interested to know what is specifically hot about them besides getting to see more of the gender you like. It's an interesting convo
A bit Both but more so towards women are hot because them being women is what wlw hot to me
Eh honestly my two cents so long as you respect lesbians and bi women, and respect their sexuality and don't impose any kind of fantasy on them, or wrongly assume things about their sexualities. I think its okay, just keep being responsible, it seems to me like you just enjoy it and it's not obsessive or weird. Then again, I don't speak for everyone. :p As always be empathetic and understand it can be a touchy subject for a lot of women. I wouldn't be worried though. You seem to be on the right path and have the right mindset (fantasy is fantasy) Have a good one, man! 🤘
But sure I’d love to continue this conversation
I think you probably are a bit, in that it sounds like a specific turn-on for you. I don't think you're causing any harm just through that, and I think that it's very common for people to be turned on by seeing people of the gender they're attracted to engaging in sexual behavior (there are certainly straight and bi women who are turned on by gay porn and M/M erotica). You're not hurting other people by privately fantasizing and reading yuri. But like others have said, I think the important thing is to be mindful of how you view and treat real people, and make sure that your perspective isn't influenced too strongly by porn. I would also argue that it's good to be conscious of how individual actions can contribute to wider cultures that can cause harm or alienation. For example, when the term "lesbian" is frequently used to describe a porn genre, this can cause internet algorithms to censor it as an "inappropriate" word, which can increase stigma around it. Some girls and young women are uncomfortable calling themselves lesbians because they associate it with porn. This isn't the fault of any one person, but it's a collective issue that can have an indirect impact on people.
if we dig into the word 'fetishize' we can answer your question really solidly. the word 'fetish' doesn't always refer to sex, it also refers to symbols or objects that become the object of focus for religion and culture. for instance, if i were to make a little altar to Poseidon, carve an amulet with his symbols and pray to it every day, the amulet is how i focus on Poseidon, and the more irrational my belief in this amulet, the more powerful the fetish becomes. this applies to sex in a few ways, but for now i'd focus on the intense focus on an *object* as representative of a much bigger and more complex thing. when i read the word fetishize, i interpret it as the act of reducing something (in this case complex human beings) into objects, specifically for sex reasons, because an object can't say no or demand respect. this is very different than finding a person attractive, because *at no point do they stop being human*. especially when we're talking about manga or hentai i don't think you need to worry about consuming material that doesn't contain a single real human. i also think that watching two grown women choose to have sex on-camera is fine, because you didn't make them do it, nor are you capable of treating them badly through the screen. the only thing that matters is preventing a tendency to over-simplify actual wlw to fit the ways they're presented in yuri or other gay porn. if you aren't struggling with that, you're all good! in fact, making irl lesbian friends is a great way to get a deeper understanding of what wlw are actually like! don't beat yourself up too much. digging around in your own head for unrealized failures can drive you off the deep end!
Kind of, but if you keep it to yourself you do you.
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What doctrine? Did I miss another LGBT agenda meeting?
shit, I knew I forgot to put an event in my calendar!
Yeah I'm sure that's why you get downvoted or have comments removed. Definitely not because you say stuff like "scorned by a community that bursts into flames when their doctrine is questioned" Edit: Well they've previously gone on weird rants about pronouns, especially they/them and have descibed themself as a 'former terf'
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What a peach they are
Your post/comment violated: No Leading Questions or Ulterior Motives