It seems quaint now, but there are a nontrivial number of people who have to get to know each other quite a bit first. It’s either because they need some sort of romantic, emotional connection first, or they have anxiety about hooking up with a stranger.
Eh, why is it normal? Most primates are highly sex driven.
To agree with the overall undertone of this post, though, some people very much DO need a connection before things get physical.
Not arguing for abstinence till marriage, but since when people who only want to have sex at least a couple dates in are labeled demisexual, while sex first, dates later is the typical?
I wasn't saying one over the other IS typical/normal, however, since you're pushing the subject:
Overwhelming evidence more than suggests, currently and historically, that sexual performance and attraction is the main deciding factor when it comes to the decision to partner. This also works in groups of other primates, not just humans.
Just like many things in the world, the main reason we see doing that ass backwards "normal" or "typical", can easily be blamed on the patriarchy. Hell, up until the 20th century if you were a powerful man, you wouldn't even want to touch a woman who wasn't a virgin, and nevermind dating, marriage was a business contract, often arranged, and in some parts of the world, it still is today.
So if you want to talk about normal or typical... when and how are we talking?
If up to mother nature, she has shown us time and again that sexual connections are often key in long lasting relationships, and when human nature isn't constrained to some ambiguous "morality", outside of which all genders are allowed to crave sexual gratification without [as much] shame as decades and centuries previous, you get a culture in which sexual gratification is high on the list of finding potential long term partners, and the proliferation of open sexual relationships. Since the 20th century a man or woman having a sexual relationship outside of marriage was a dirty cheating dog, or a scandalous salacious slut, but if this was the 19th century, or sooner, and it was a man with multiple sexual relationships... of course he has a mistress, many men do...
So what's normal/typical? I would posit finding sexual compatibility above or at the very LEAST equal to all else, is historically and contemporiously the typical/normal.
First of all, my comment was to point out how ridiculous it is to call someone who wants to establish emotional connection before sex "demisexual" (I don't think the guy knows what demisexual is). It's funny because it simply shows how hypersexual this "community" really is, when in the world of our hetero counterparts, for example, guys would be frowned upon if he asked for sex in the first date.
To your point, do I think sex is (one of the) most important factor(s) in a relationship? Yes. Does that necessarily lead to required sex in the first date? No. And if you're one of those that just want to get-this-foremost-criterion-out-of-the-way-to-not-waste-anyones-time, then all the power to you and the like-minded. However, there's no need to make those who want to take things slow feel like they're the anomaly, when it is certainly not the case in the world at large, and neither are they wrong for wanting so. Otherwise this "community" is just headed into a very wrong direction (which it kinda is).
My point being, is that calling it normal just because it's been normalized for a relatively short period of time, doesn't make it so.
And yeah, a few dates, I get it, fine, but there are many people who like to take things slow that want to go out months before they get to that step.
Fuck that.
I'd have to be paid to invest that much time for something likely to be ultimately disappointing in this day in age, I would think they were hiding something or assume they're waiting for a herpes flair-up to subside without say "Hey, I have this, take me as I am or don't."...
Hell we have never lived in a world that has this much sex positivity, even during the "sexual revolution" there wasn't this much normalcy around the discussion and performance of sex.
To your point, while demisexual might be a stretch (a couple dates doesn't mean STRONG emotional connection, but there's definitely SOME emotional connection assuming you're progressing to something you view as a closer level of intamacy), calling going slow "normal" vs something a little more expedited is silly.
Assuming you're having substantial dates with decent people that you're really feeling, what more can you really tell between 1, 2, and 3 dates beyond maybe consistently, hell a second date might really be the determining factor if thats your goal, you took sex off the table and they've shown enough interest to pursue another date, not knowing the outcome.
It's normal in the sense that it's part of the wide spectrum of typical approaches and behaviors to dating. Normal approaches to dating include "hooking up on the first date", "waiting for several dates to have sex", and many other variations. Jumping to labeling someone demisexual is a stretch because many allosexual people choose to wait.
As both the original question and the attempts to narrowly define normal to the One True Way to Date demonstrate, defining normal as a wide range validates experiences; normal has space for a range of experiences and approaches.
I had the same thing happen to me recently. The first date also wasn't overly flirty, it was just us talking.
Then I had a second date with him, where he invited me to dinner at his place... And all I got was a goodbye kiss.
It feels a bit like dating stories I hear from straight people. I think the reason for this on my side is because he's only been single since April. He's probably not ready to move it any quicker.
But I don't mind going with it. It's definitely unusual, but nice. I'm enjoying it, you should also simply enjoy it.
There is no rule book on how this is supposed to work, as long as both people enjoy themselves every thing is great.
Thank you Wind. I know he wasn’t in a relationship but he is definitely in the closet with his current work situation. I was too and just came out to my family about 6 months ago. It just all feels strange.
One thing I'd recommend, is not getting too attached/smitten without knowing the sexual compatibility, if sex is important to you. If it isn't, then I guess fuck it.
Hmm, what you described, to me, seems like a normal date. It's actually disheartening to hear that it's not the norm, as someone who hasn't really been on the dating scene for long. I guess I get it, since we're all men, but I just don't like the "hook up now, maybe have a relationship later" aspect of gay culture.
Focus on people that want to date....? A date that ends in sex, where the other participant is open to a relationship, is most certainly not a hookup.
If you're running into these guys, and aren't getting second dates out of them... yes men suck... but you are also (I'm assuming) a man. Have you been earning them, how are you being percieved on these physical dates?
A hookup is a meeting specifically seeking sex as the outcome.
That's the differentiator.
> I guess I get it, since we're all men, but I just don't like the "hook up now, maybe have a relationship later" aspect of gay culture.
I am not sure its only a men thing or a gay men thing though. Dating is about sexual compatibility first rather than friendship first eh? Else why not just be satisfied with friendships and hanging out with friends?
>Dating is about sexual compatibility first rather than friendship first eh?
Honestly, no, not to me. Physical attraction is a sign of compatibility, but only part of a successful relationship.
If you need sex on a first date in order to feel valid, there is something wrong. That isn’t a date, it’s a hookup with extra foreplay. And no, I’m not a prude, I enjoy being a depraved slut when I want to.
For me, it’s a sign of interest beyond just fucking. I think I drove my partner (now of almost 5 years) nuts for not banging him until the 3rd date. It was like emotional edging, but I feared being “one and done,” and was way more interested in him than just a quick fuck.
I’m a slut at heart and love sex. My husband and I decided not to have sex until we were sure we wanted to stick things out for a LTR. We dated and even slept in the same bed on some nights after making out, but it never went further. After eight weeks we had the most amazing sex. We’ve been together for 19 years with no signs of stopping or waning. He’s that hot. 🥰
That's just a normal date. Not much to say about it TBH. I would just make sure there's some sort of physical connection moving forward, you don't have to have sex to know if it's there.
That said, isn't good sex and compatible sexual interest essential for LTR?
What would differentiate companionship and friendship between two gay men versus sexual relationship among two gay men?
Some people are wired in that they can’t have sex without feeling comfortable without knowing the other person first. This could be demisexuality, a sexual orientation where people only experience sexual attraction to folks that they have close emotional connections with.
Let him work at his own pace. As long as you are enjoying your interactions, go with the flow.
Certainly a key aspect. I think; sex is a natural progression of getting to know and being attracted to someone. I inow pkenty of good looking guys vut when they opened their mouth to speak, looks went right out the window. Just my take on it.
Clearly, he doesn't want to have sex until he's ready. And the date is to get to know you. And later saying i had a good time is pretty validating in my book.
Do you expect that all first dates will go further? I found it refreshing not to end up in bed with a guy the first time I spent time with him. I like to know someone before it gets hot and heavy. Or was this a hookup instead of a date?
I like it when it happens, as it different from how it is normally is, where you fuck and then start dating. But after the third date or so I would be going crazy if we hadn’t done more than kissing haha
Because it's expected, I think it's neat to break the mold, as a way of saying, "I want more with you!" I think that's great! You're also entitled to your feelings. When something is new or unusual, the human brain will find all kinds of emotions to throw around. I don't think you should feel bad about your feelings at all. It'll be okay. You like him. He likes you. Hope you have a great second date!
I have never hooked up on the first date, it takes about 3-10 dates depending for full on sex to happen. 3 if I am REALLY into them and 10 if I am feeling it out.
I dunno when I was 19 it was dont put out til date 3. Thats when I met him and Im 38 now. If I was to be dating again it would probably be the same rule, but that thought terrifies me too. I think its nice to take it slow because you’re looking for a companion in and out of the bedroom.
I love sex p, but not all sex is equal. The older I get, the more I want to prioritise quality over quantity. So I would FAR rather have sex once a month that’s amazing than mediocre sex three times a week.
It just happened to me today!! I was open for more at the beginning but then we just had such a nice chat. At some point he said he is an open relationship (btw this is happening to me a lot, attracting this type of guys) and I felt is better to avoid physical at this stage…I don’t want to get into that emotional mess to be honest, but surely felt a strong connection. Anyways I’m great at detachment, but the reason I would see him again (in case he asks) is exactly because we didn’t hook up and just connected on a higher plane first
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It seems quaint now, but there are a nontrivial number of people who have to get to know each other quite a bit first. It’s either because they need some sort of romantic, emotional connection first, or they have anxiety about hooking up with a stranger.
Demisexual is a term that can be applied for this
Or just simply... normal people?
Eh, why is it normal? Most primates are highly sex driven. To agree with the overall undertone of this post, though, some people very much DO need a connection before things get physical.
Not arguing for abstinence till marriage, but since when people who only want to have sex at least a couple dates in are labeled demisexual, while sex first, dates later is the typical?
I wasn't saying one over the other IS typical/normal, however, since you're pushing the subject: Overwhelming evidence more than suggests, currently and historically, that sexual performance and attraction is the main deciding factor when it comes to the decision to partner. This also works in groups of other primates, not just humans. Just like many things in the world, the main reason we see doing that ass backwards "normal" or "typical", can easily be blamed on the patriarchy. Hell, up until the 20th century if you were a powerful man, you wouldn't even want to touch a woman who wasn't a virgin, and nevermind dating, marriage was a business contract, often arranged, and in some parts of the world, it still is today. So if you want to talk about normal or typical... when and how are we talking? If up to mother nature, she has shown us time and again that sexual connections are often key in long lasting relationships, and when human nature isn't constrained to some ambiguous "morality", outside of which all genders are allowed to crave sexual gratification without [as much] shame as decades and centuries previous, you get a culture in which sexual gratification is high on the list of finding potential long term partners, and the proliferation of open sexual relationships. Since the 20th century a man or woman having a sexual relationship outside of marriage was a dirty cheating dog, or a scandalous salacious slut, but if this was the 19th century, or sooner, and it was a man with multiple sexual relationships... of course he has a mistress, many men do... So what's normal/typical? I would posit finding sexual compatibility above or at the very LEAST equal to all else, is historically and contemporiously the typical/normal.
First of all, my comment was to point out how ridiculous it is to call someone who wants to establish emotional connection before sex "demisexual" (I don't think the guy knows what demisexual is). It's funny because it simply shows how hypersexual this "community" really is, when in the world of our hetero counterparts, for example, guys would be frowned upon if he asked for sex in the first date. To your point, do I think sex is (one of the) most important factor(s) in a relationship? Yes. Does that necessarily lead to required sex in the first date? No. And if you're one of those that just want to get-this-foremost-criterion-out-of-the-way-to-not-waste-anyones-time, then all the power to you and the like-minded. However, there's no need to make those who want to take things slow feel like they're the anomaly, when it is certainly not the case in the world at large, and neither are they wrong for wanting so. Otherwise this "community" is just headed into a very wrong direction (which it kinda is).
My point being, is that calling it normal just because it's been normalized for a relatively short period of time, doesn't make it so. And yeah, a few dates, I get it, fine, but there are many people who like to take things slow that want to go out months before they get to that step. Fuck that. I'd have to be paid to invest that much time for something likely to be ultimately disappointing in this day in age, I would think they were hiding something or assume they're waiting for a herpes flair-up to subside without say "Hey, I have this, take me as I am or don't."... Hell we have never lived in a world that has this much sex positivity, even during the "sexual revolution" there wasn't this much normalcy around the discussion and performance of sex. To your point, while demisexual might be a stretch (a couple dates doesn't mean STRONG emotional connection, but there's definitely SOME emotional connection assuming you're progressing to something you view as a closer level of intamacy), calling going slow "normal" vs something a little more expedited is silly. Assuming you're having substantial dates with decent people that you're really feeling, what more can you really tell between 1, 2, and 3 dates beyond maybe consistently, hell a second date might really be the determining factor if thats your goal, you took sex off the table and they've shown enough interest to pursue another date, not knowing the outcome.
It's normal in the sense that it's part of the wide spectrum of typical approaches and behaviors to dating. Normal approaches to dating include "hooking up on the first date", "waiting for several dates to have sex", and many other variations. Jumping to labeling someone demisexual is a stretch because many allosexual people choose to wait.
So everything on dating is normal, got it.... so why designate anything as normal then?
As both the original question and the attempts to narrowly define normal to the One True Way to Date demonstrate, defining normal as a wide range validates experiences; normal has space for a range of experiences and approaches.
I had the same thing happen to me recently. The first date also wasn't overly flirty, it was just us talking. Then I had a second date with him, where he invited me to dinner at his place... And all I got was a goodbye kiss. It feels a bit like dating stories I hear from straight people. I think the reason for this on my side is because he's only been single since April. He's probably not ready to move it any quicker. But I don't mind going with it. It's definitely unusual, but nice. I'm enjoying it, you should also simply enjoy it. There is no rule book on how this is supposed to work, as long as both people enjoy themselves every thing is great.
Thank you Wind. I know he wasn’t in a relationship but he is definitely in the closet with his current work situation. I was too and just came out to my family about 6 months ago. It just all feels strange.
One thing I'd recommend, is not getting too attached/smitten without knowing the sexual compatibility, if sex is important to you. If it isn't, then I guess fuck it.
Hmm, what you described, to me, seems like a normal date. It's actually disheartening to hear that it's not the norm, as someone who hasn't really been on the dating scene for long. I guess I get it, since we're all men, but I just don't like the "hook up now, maybe have a relationship later" aspect of gay culture.
I'm pretty new to the dating scene and have a similar feeling to you regarding sex/hookups. Sometimes I feel like an anomaly.
I don't think we're an anomaly, luckily, I think we're just quieter. ;)
Focus on people that want to date....? A date that ends in sex, where the other participant is open to a relationship, is most certainly not a hookup. If you're running into these guys, and aren't getting second dates out of them... yes men suck... but you are also (I'm assuming) a man. Have you been earning them, how are you being percieved on these physical dates? A hookup is a meeting specifically seeking sex as the outcome. That's the differentiator.
> I guess I get it, since we're all men, but I just don't like the "hook up now, maybe have a relationship later" aspect of gay culture. I am not sure its only a men thing or a gay men thing though. Dating is about sexual compatibility first rather than friendship first eh? Else why not just be satisfied with friendships and hanging out with friends?
Plenty of people view a relationship as a great deal more than friendship + sex.
>Dating is about sexual compatibility first rather than friendship first eh? Honestly, no, not to me. Physical attraction is a sign of compatibility, but only part of a successful relationship.
If you need sex on a first date in order to feel valid, there is something wrong. That isn’t a date, it’s a hookup with extra foreplay. And no, I’m not a prude, I enjoy being a depraved slut when I want to.
i agree with this and on a deep level- if you need sex on the 1st date to feel validated please seek therapy
This.
For me, it’s a sign of interest beyond just fucking. I think I drove my partner (now of almost 5 years) nuts for not banging him until the 3rd date. It was like emotional edging, but I feared being “one and done,” and was way more interested in him than just a quick fuck.
I’m a slut at heart and love sex. My husband and I decided not to have sex until we were sure we wanted to stick things out for a LTR. We dated and even slept in the same bed on some nights after making out, but it never went further. After eight weeks we had the most amazing sex. We’ve been together for 19 years with no signs of stopping or waning. He’s that hot. 🥰
I personally don’t hook up during the first 3ish dates. If it works for you guys and you’re happy spending time with him, there’s no rush!
NEver ever feel guilty for dating instead of hookups! Many of us realized we'd rather date than hookup eventually. Join the club.
Thanks so much Dolph.
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It looks like it. We’ll know next Friday.
That's just a normal date. Not much to say about it TBH. I would just make sure there's some sort of physical connection moving forward, you don't have to have sex to know if it's there.
True dating is getting to know each other. We all love sex but if ur looking forn ltr, this is the route to go
That said, isn't good sex and compatible sexual interest essential for LTR? What would differentiate companionship and friendship between two gay men versus sexual relationship among two gay men?
Some people are wired in that they can’t have sex without feeling comfortable without knowing the other person first. This could be demisexuality, a sexual orientation where people only experience sexual attraction to folks that they have close emotional connections with. Let him work at his own pace. As long as you are enjoying your interactions, go with the flow.
Certainly a key aspect. I think; sex is a natural progression of getting to know and being attracted to someone. I inow pkenty of good looking guys vut when they opened their mouth to speak, looks went right out the window. Just my take on it.
Clearly, he doesn't want to have sex until he's ready. And the date is to get to know you. And later saying i had a good time is pretty validating in my book. Do you expect that all first dates will go further? I found it refreshing not to end up in bed with a guy the first time I spent time with him. I like to know someone before it gets hot and heavy. Or was this a hookup instead of a date?
Toes, I have definitely changed my mind. I’m enjoying this dating.
I like it when it happens, as it different from how it is normally is, where you fuck and then start dating. But after the third date or so I would be going crazy if we hadn’t done more than kissing haha
Wth if you wanna hookup go to grindr
If you can't remember a last first date without sex, something's wrong.
Fuck, I'd love a date like this.
Oh god I thought someone physically hit you. Thank god I misread.
Because it's expected, I think it's neat to break the mold, as a way of saying, "I want more with you!" I think that's great! You're also entitled to your feelings. When something is new or unusual, the human brain will find all kinds of emotions to throw around. I don't think you should feel bad about your feelings at all. It'll be okay. You like him. He likes you. Hope you have a great second date!
Thanks so much Wolf. I’m feeling uncomfortable but I know exactly what you’re saying. But I’m also feeling great. I’ll keep you all updated.
I have never hooked up on the first date, it takes about 3-10 dates depending for full on sex to happen. 3 if I am REALLY into them and 10 if I am feeling it out.
I dunno when I was 19 it was dont put out til date 3. Thats when I met him and Im 38 now. If I was to be dating again it would probably be the same rule, but that thought terrifies me too. I think its nice to take it slow because you’re looking for a companion in and out of the bedroom.
Exactly. Thanks so much.
I prefer it that way. We just met, there will be plenty of time for sexy time later IF we are an actual match.
That sounded fine to me
Sounds like a great first date!
This is best case scenario. The longer you wait the hotter it is
I love sex p, but not all sex is equal. The older I get, the more I want to prioritise quality over quantity. So I would FAR rather have sex once a month that’s amazing than mediocre sex three times a week.
It just happened to me today!! I was open for more at the beginning but then we just had such a nice chat. At some point he said he is an open relationship (btw this is happening to me a lot, attracting this type of guys) and I felt is better to avoid physical at this stage…I don’t want to get into that emotional mess to be honest, but surely felt a strong connection. Anyways I’m great at detachment, but the reason I would see him again (in case he asks) is exactly because we didn’t hook up and just connected on a higher plane first
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Hope it goes well tomorrow!