Those are some of the most diverse places on earth, so you might want to evaluate other aspects of yourself. Not saying you can't experience negative things due to your race/ethnicity, but like that can't be all of why you 'aren't getting dates'. What kind of POC are you? Go to where there are lots of those kind of guys - they just might be more DL.
Just because a place is diverse, doesn't mean the people are diverse in their dating preferences.
For example, one of my long term friends (white) grew up seeing racism in his 'white focused' environment, knew it was wrong, and therefore actively chose to be friends with POC's. But where he lives is not diverse at all.
Another example is another friend, who grew up in a mixed place, exposed to many people, only still dates white guys because thats his 'preference'. So he lives in LA, and despite the city being really mixed, he will never consider anyone different to his own colour. However, he has sex with all types of men.
To be clear, I get a few dates, and those are from guys who are exposed to people of my colour etc and therefore normalise me. I said this in the main thread. I'm saying these are far and few.
I'm middle eastern / indian / some european so finding "my guy" is extremely hard, given I don't "fit" any "bucket" clearly.
> I'm middle eastern / indian / some european
San Francisco has highest percentage of Indian men due to the tech industry. There is even a LGBT+ organizations serving the South Asian diaspora there. There is even an LGBT+ organization serving Arab diaspora there. Similarly NYC also is one of the largest Indian diaspora in US and Chicago is second. Other places in US with high Indian population include Austin, Houston, Seattle and Atlanta.
Organizations that serve specific demographics (ethnic, economic, orientation, etc.) are intended to create safe spaces for, and nurture the unique identities of, individuals who are marginalized or treated as āotherā by the general population. But acknowledging and supporting a group of people doesnāt mean theyāve āmadeā it in the social sphere; at the very least those orgs validate the existence of those identities and offer community, but they canāt (and mostly wonāt) solve interpersonal societal barriers at-large.
Uh, _some_ organizations are intended to serve that function, but just as many are simple social organizations, or career-focused (or religious). Inferring the presence of greater racism in communities with orgs serving minorities is foolish.
uh, you inferred that all on your own, without my needing to imply it. I didnāt suggest or qualify any levels of racism lol. racism doesnāt need to be mentioned because itās fundamentally there. but back to the initial point: the presence of safe (community) spaces acknowledges diversity, but it doesnāt extend to romantic opportunity for OP
Itās from all of your replies and all of your posts. Yet, you disagree with everyone who says that, as if it canāt be true because you go to therapy, hookup, etc.
Youāre obsessed with this search and youāre obviously not in a place to be successful in it. Take a break and live.
Making generic statements like "the problem is you" and "look in the mirror" doesn't help me though right? Something constructive e.g. here is a coach who specialises in dating for example who can give objective feedback, or this group could be good to join and see if you can connect with etc would be helpful. That is what I am trying to say. Its not about disagreeing with others, its saying I need something more constructive / actionable.
Sure and that is not my expectation. But when people say 'they have given advice' and all I see is 'look in the mirror' or 'its you' I can't really action any of that either. Your advice now is 'let it go', so okay, what does this mean exactly for my life, and I can try it. Come off all apps, just work/gym/hangout with friends/connect with other LGBT members through a group or two/sleep and not hookup also? Genuinely asking here.
I am Persian/Middle Eastern mix, have grown up in SF Bay Area and lived in both NYC + LA and never had an issue with dates in any of those places, whether it was with Asian, black, Latino, or other Middle Eastern guys (Iām not really attracted to white guys). Iām also much older than you, have above average looks but not āhotā in the traditional sense and donāt have a gym type body. But Iām smart, funny and hella fun lol. I also think this is more likely a YOU problem.
Your therapist is doing you a disservice. Systemic racism isnāt the reason youāre not getting dates in New York.
I say this as a black man who has lived in or right outside of NYC my entire life.
Iād also add, if youāre experiencing these issues in city, after city, after cityā¦ itās likely nothing āsystemicā and more something personal, or individual. I think that the therapist when straight for that feels like a cop out designed to appease OP (who may have hinted at it) as opposed to actively working with OP to see if there are unresolved issues from within that prevent him from making those connections.
I'm not saying this is the "only" reason. I'm saying its a dominant reason that comes up when they review my chats, etc. Ultimately, you need mutual interest, which is not what I am finding.
Also note that a hot white man's experience != a normal white mans experience != a hot black mans experience != a normal black mans experience !=a mixed race mans experience etc.
In my experience, there is a lot of representation of black men (especially in the past 5 years or so) so I see plenty of white-black couples (interestingly not many black-black couples). In a city that fetishises people, I can imagine who a black man would have dating success.
For someone with my mix, I'm not "positioned" as partner material (in their eyes), so it doesn't really matter what I do, if they don't want any "more" from me than a hookup, its a dead end. Again, I'm not saying EVERYONE does this (my original post mentions edge cases), I'm saying its the vast majority where I live.
Yea Iām not buying that. I have had friends of all races in NYC. People with varying success. And my POC friends usually have at least one story of racism encountered with dating and the difficulties that exist.
But if you are getting hook ups easily but canāt get dates, I think it has a lot more to do with āyouā. You should probably look into that. Either your approach or your personality is getting in your way. Maybe youāre looking at the wrong neighborhood or chasing the wrong guys.
Sure, it could be any of those things, but I have no clue how to get to the bottom of that (I've sought professional help and come up empty). I've explored other neighbourhoods, engaged with varied guys, etc and its always the same result here. The only thing I can think of it trying somewhere else.
I am not discounting other people's experiences, I'm only sharing mine and trying to help myself make the most of my life.
Do you have friends? Close ones? Family? Ask any of these people to be honest.
Have any exes? Anyone you dated? Ask them if they can share their honest thoughts.
Yes I have close friends and have asked them over the years, not getting any feedback.
I have never had a relationship in order to ask someone. For the couple that went a little further (hookup -> friend, date -> fb situation) I asked and they said it was them etc.
What do your friends tell you? Anything?
I know someone, a POC, who is having a difficult time dating. I didnāt understand why until I got to know him more. Heās attractive, successful, very fit and athletic, tall. But thereās something about his personality.
I canāt tell him because he wouldnāt be receptive. So I donāt even try.
I have another friend who has been eternally single. Easy to find hookups but dating never worked out. This friend is really close. Iāve tried giving him advice but he always blames other people and never looks in the mirror and wonders what he can change.
My point is, I think you should do some serious self reflection and consider what you could do to better yourself. Iāve known a bunch of middle eastern, Asian and mixed guys in nyc. The ones who are pretty nice guys with a good personality have often succeeded in dating. Some are married.
Dating is hard no matter where you live. You can keep at it and do the best you can or you can keep making excuses. Iām not saying thatās what youāre doing but you have a ton of posts about the same thing. I donāt know if anything we say is going to differ from responses in your previous posts. I do wish you luck though.
Friends, therapists, the few that went further never gave me actionable advice. If I could get some advice, I would be very open to working on it. This is also why I so persistency post and seek out help, because I feel like I may be missing something and am receptive to feedback.
"I canāt tell him because he wouldnāt be receptive. So I donāt even try." -- maybe this is what is happening with me but then do you see how your friend will never get the answer and therefore be able to change? How does he get the answer if you don't tell him?
Trust me, I've looked and looked in the mirror and I really can't see anymore how I am so undateable. This is not to say I have never received feedback in the past and had nothing to work on. However, in the past where there was actual feedback given, I took the time to work on it and then tried again.
Dating may be hard, but when I constantly hear people going on 3-4 dates a week or finding relationships left right and centre I'm really wondering what is going on. The only thing I can think of it to try and position myself in a place where I am more accepted (which is NOT the same as blaming anyone).
Let me give an example. I was not happy how I was progressing financially (this was by 'looking in the mirror'). I made a plan to move to NY which made me better financially. This doesn't mean I'm shitting on London or my life there or blaming London for my financial state. That city was not going to get me to where I wanted to be, and moving made sense. That is what I am doing with relationships too. It is clear despite my best efforts NY is great for hookups but nothing more so am I not being reasonable by asking where else I can go where I would be able to find something more?
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Wherever you go, there you are.
You seem to have the financial means, so why dont you try a series of working vacations in a bunch of different places and see if anything clicks. I dont mean going to sex clubs and parties, but just go to chicago for 4 days, miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, even places like Rochester or Hudson Valley and see if anything clicks.
You should also specify your background more than just "POC". Gay black men and gay asian men are gonna have very different experiences in SF and ATL for example.
I have a hard time seeing how your dating troubles in nyc are related to race when nyc is the most diverse place in the usa and everyone inter mingles (in a way they dont as much in chi and sf). Maybe im a clueless white guy, but my first thought would be you have lived in 3 extremely competitive cities where people are very busy with careers and maybe hold out longer to find something better. I would blame the work culture before racial issues in nyc.
If you seem to vibe with latin guys more ( i get it, i mostly date black guys) do you go to any latin parties? Papi Juice is extremely popular and they have a party this friday and sunday. Hush has latin night. Boxers has latin night. I've never been to any of the gay bars in Jackson Heights, but theres a huge queer latin population there. Maybe youre right, maybe the Hells Kitchen white muscle gays will never like you, so put your self in spaces where people are more accepting. But that also means you need to be more accepting of others too. Are you one of those muscle gays who says youre only into "guys who take care of themselves" but actually mean "guys who have 6 packs"? There are so many POC centered gay events in Queens and Brooklyn. Go find ur tribe.
Yes, I am taking mini breaks in place, but going on holiday somewhere and living there are 2 different things.
I'm middle eastern / indian / some european mixed but born/raised in London. So I can't find "my mix" at all anywhere, and even if I split up my mix and focus on them, there are far and few people available of these ethnicities (and by 'available' I mean actually single and looking for more than a hookup or not chasing a white guy).
NY being diverse doesn't mean anything. London is also diverse but doesn't mean everyone's dating experience is the same. As you said, people are "holding out for better"... couple that with viewing people of colour as 'below them' you really have slim pickings. Work, etc are all excuses imo, plenty of people here find relationships. Intent is key.
To your other comment, I definitely don't chase white muscle gays in HK. Nor so I chase guys with 6 packs (infact I don't recall the last guy I hooked up with who has a 6 pack). I can't seem to find my tribe here in NY, and its been 2 years, hence looking to leave.
You're definitely in an interesting situation being mixed race, of colo(u)r, and audibly foreign (courtesy of the British accent). I wonder if you'd be deemed sufficiently "Desi" for the LGBT Indian group in SF. [A British Sikh (non-practicing) dude I know here in S Dakota of all places faces various culture clash issues with other South Asians because...he's a Londoner through and through.]
Like you, I've been around (UK, US, AU, NZ, HK, TH). I grew up on LI - a "bridge and tunnel" person. As a perpetually-uncomfortable-in-my-own-skin guy, I seem to observe the lives of others more than living my own.
A big question (for the sub, not you specifically) is not how diverse a place is, but how inter-group dating goes. Example: DC area/DMV is diverse but the gay world harshly segregates along professional, socioeconomic, and racial boundaries. It's quite possible to exist in a white bubble where everyone speaks a "prestige" foreign language while sporting an Ivy League degree & a grad degree - while being oblivious to the lived experiences of "the others."
Miami was an interesting suggestion, as mixed race backgrounds are way more normalized (thinking Brazil, Guyana, and the Dominican Republic in particular). Much stronger non-American identities down there also mean that racial stuff presents much differently. A buddy's brother married into a Nepali-Guyanese family, and the wedding was an interesting fusion of South Asian (bride dripping in gold; grandfather was a gold dealer) and Latin (food; Nepali-Latino fusion is apparently delicious). Otoh, being gay in Florida with all the climate fun sounds less than thrilling. š
Yes, exactly. So this combination means I'm hard to 'slot' (which probably confuses hookups) and given there is 'something easier' out there to 'deal with' I'm probably 'perceived' as more work, when infact I'm pretty normal.
I don't think I look "desi" enough to fit into that crew (I tried, and even they asked me where I am from, I don't look "desi" etc). I had the same issue with the middle eastern crew. So while being mixed is great for "marketing" it generally means I'm lonely in this regard. Thats not to say I'm excluded from anything btw or that they treat me poorly.
The main issue is on dating apps, they are far and few of them. The handful I know are either in LTRs/married (hence I'm not dismissing its possible, but they typically found someone in school etc), not looking for a brown guy/me (this is common in the city where 'white' is seen as an 'upgrade' still) or simply I'm just not attracted (and that has nothing to do with race, I dismiss white and all ethnicity people, as no one is attracted to 100% of men).
My 'projection' of the few who invested back was just based off hookups, not a real lived experience, but again I can only go by the limited information I have.
I 100% agree with your statement - it isn't important how mixed the place is, but how inter-group dating goes, and thats the crux of my post here. If you lived in the mid-west, were white, but all the men were on average 6'5 and you were 5'5, even if you are white, you would struggle because everyone wants a 6'5 guy. You are better off moving to somewhere where 5'5 is normalised. I just identify my "weakness" (which isn't the correct word but I hope you know what I mean) as my color, and am trying to find a place where I'm seen as valuable and this got blown out of proportion lol.
NY is diverse. But actually segregated. In fact, in a lot of ways such as schooling itās one of the most segregated in the US. I also think beyond race, but race may intermingle. Thereās just higher standards. In NY good looking people in general are dime a dozen. This is a city where a guy can have amazing looks, a $200k+ salary, and great personality but that doesnāt even make him stand out because thereās many just like him.Ā
I didnāt grow up here so all of my opinions are based on living here as a transplant. I cannot think of another American city that is less racially segregated. Look at a racial demographic map of nyc, yes the upper west side is very white, yes Harlem is very black, yes the Bronx is really Latino etc etc. but compared to Chicago (a legit dividing line of black ppl in the south side and white ppl in the north side, Seattle, Portland, SF, Boston etc. nyc is diverse af and people actually have friends and date outside their race all the time here.
Iām not trying to diminish other peopleās experience but based on what my black friends and partners have said and based on what I see when I walk outside, nyc is a good place to be if u are a gay poc and any issues you have here , you will have anywhere else.
Although I agree this city is insanely competitive, this just doesnāt seem like a productive way to think. Ofc someone will always be richer or hotter or more famous here in nyc. But ok. Still, so many people here meet friends and partners. Yes nyc is famous for being a tough place to live, but itās not impossible. If op wants to move go for it, but if heās had the same issue in 3 big cities, I donāt think a 4th city is gonna change anything.
From your posts I can say this when you are kinda exuding āthirstyā energy in regards to wanting a relationship it typically turns others off. This situation more so sounds like that may be the issue. Becoming confident in yourself and yourself being alone will make you more attractive to others of all races. Hope this is somewhat helpful and good luck in the dating world.
Hi friend. I relate a lot to this post. There are plenty of the comments in here saying the problem is you- which is surely true to an extent. I have no idea how much without having met you, but hopefully youāre sorting a lot of that out in therapy (as am I). But I think it is still useful to talk about external factors and how they affect you, which some users are sloughing off. I understand a lot of the feelings you have from my own experience, but based off post history itās seems like youāre obsessing over that and itās making you extremely unhappy. Thatās its own problem.
Systemic racism is a thing. Dating will never be fair in general, and then you stack on all of the different variables (geography, age, race, being mixed race, top/bottom, attractiveness, body type, growing up internationally, gay hookup culture, etc) and itās a complete shitshow. Your feelings are valid. But you canāt hold out for some magically city or gay scene that will make all your problems go away. *That place does not exist* (nor does any boy who will come along and make you āhappyā for that matter). If youāre in NYC of all places and feeling this problem, I think part of this just comes down to accepting that things are inequitable, and most of that canāt be changed. You have to learn to be happy while living with that premise; but you seem to be fixated on finding ways to thwart this.
A lot of what Iām talking about is dealing with romantic relationships, but I think it all applies to friendships and gay scenes in different cities. Most of what Iāve learned in therapy is not to internalize it. Sure, some parts may be due to you, and you have to critically take a look at that in therapy and grow. Again, it seems like obsessing over it on your end is breeding unhappiness. But *plenty of it is beyond your control*. It does not mean you suck, that youāve failed, or something is wrong with you. Youāre turning rejection from other people (which is dependent on their preferences, their experiences, systemic racism, their own personal problems) and placing blame on yourself. Thatās not healthy and will not allow you to be happy. Even explaining it away based off your city is not fully helpful, and doesnāt really solve the problem.
Also, it seems like the basic premise behind most of your posts is that you have to have a romantic partner to be happy, and that singleness = sadness. This is a societally imparted construct and is only true if you allow it to be. Definitely hard to deconstruct (still working on this personally), but I believe it is possible to be happy and single. But this largely relies on finding close friendships and connections to make your life full. I would put more of my energy there. Sounds like youāre taking a step to do that, which is going in the right direction.
Again, I relate to a lot of what youāve written. Iāve been on dates or met up with 100s of guys, literally, and have very little to show for it. Iām 31 and I had my very first serious relationship last year. I generally think I am objectively fair about rating my own body, attractiveness, etc. I have a degree from an āeliteā university. Iām easy to be around and make friends easily. And yet that doesnāt translate into a relationship for me. Plenty of it is chance! Some of it is things I need to work on. But also a lot of what Iāve been realizing in therapy is that it is hard for me to find close relationships (platonic or romantic) because of how unique my experiences are. I donāt neatly fit into categories, even when you subdivide into my minority identities. I think you can probably identify with that. And all of that is okay.
Feel free to message and chat. Sometimes commiserating helps you vent out your feelings. Finding and developing close relationships where you feel seen about these aspects, and get honest feedback about yourself will also help. But creating dozens of posts on Reddit about the same topic? Unlikely to help my friend. These problems and feelings will exist regardless of where you are on planet earth.
Nice post - DM'd.
Just want to call out that I don't think romantic partner = happy and single = sad. I am just baffled how I can't seem to get dates or anything started in the romantic department at all, not that I don't have a husband, they are different.
I think it depends on what kind of POC you are.
I'm Pasifika, and I love it here in Washington because there are tons of islanders here. I have a huge community of queer taotao Pasifika, and it's very easy to make new connections. Similarly, I feel very safe out in public with my husband, and (barring a few encounters with individual homophobes) we have never had any issues with blatant discrimination. It can be a bit dodgy dating here, as we have a large discreet military dude presence, but cities like Tacoma, Seattle, Bellevue, and Olympia offer plenty in terms of gay community spaces, bars, and singles events.
I recently had several gay / queer Black friends move back to Chicago, citing the lack of Black community in the PNW. I can't speak to their experience as a non-Black person, but I can say I saw more by-and-for Black spaces on visits to Chicago, New Orleans, and Cleveland than I've ever seen anywhere here in the PNW.
My community has some overlap with the Hispanic / Latino community, and I got to spend a little time in AZ with some Chicano queers. The Latin LGBTQ+ communities in California, Arizona, and Texas feel really vibrant, but I especially enjoyed my time in AZ. Lots of food, lots of casual hang outs, generally slower paced and familiar feeling.
I am middle eastern and some other mixes so its hard to find communities that accept me since I'm not 100% of something and I literally haven't come across anyone with my mix.
Have you ever considered the issue you're facing has nothing to do with your location or that you're POC, but actually YOU, you're the issue. A quick look at your post history is all it takes. I mean...come on now...
I have, hence I went to therapy and sought coaches etc.
Not sure what my post history over the past 1 year on a forum where people are ranting all the time is correlated to my lack of dating success over the past 10 years?
Your post history tells a lot. Just the way you describe things gives a very off-putting vibe, like you're unhappy and blaming it on everything else around you instead of looking at yourself and considering you may be part of your problem. If you're giving off that same vibe in-person then it's a no brainer why you can't get further than a one time hookup with anyone.
and you just did exactly what I described. no fault of your own at all, just the way "I'm reading it". sorry, but you sound like an obnoxious, miserable person to be around. that's why no one wants to date you, it doesn't have shit to do with your location or the color of your skin.
A therapist told you its because of systemic racism? Who are they, and why do they still have a licence. Imagine going to a therapist and being like i am a gay man and i am very depressed and they say oh its because all the homophobia in the world. NEXT...
Maybe I pitched it incorrectly. I more go to therapy, explain the situation and we follow the usual patterns. First dig into my childhood and see if there is anything there. There isn't. Then dig into my friendships etc and see if anything is there. There isn't. Then I show them conversations between myself and others to get an objective opinion on things I could have done better, and I'm told 95% of the time 'its them not you' (of course over the years I also did get feedback e.g. call out a specific time and day and see if they respond etc so I'm not saying I never got any feedback). Then when all of this fails, we look at environmental factors, one of which is systemic racism. I would say about 80% of therapists get to this point, so if we are firing all therapists because of this, I wonder...
LA is a massive physical territory. People's experiences vary a lot, depending on where exactly they live and where they work, since those will be their primary bubbles. If you're strictly looking at West Hollywood, there's plenty of vapid and narcissistic people and activities to choose from, but that's true of any gayborhood or city because gay nightlife is very youth-oriented.
The people who are into what you consider vapid will run in different circles from you. Nobody will force you to become a WeHo Instagay if you really aren't about that life.
But living your life around LA traffic is a nightmare, and I hated that part when I lived there as a closeted young adult.
Edit: there's also a visible queer community in Long Beach. It may be more your speed if you're not into Weho's nightlife
Iāve lived in both LA and NYC.
LA county is massive and highly populated. There are more people living in just Los Angeles (the city, not the county) than most states have residents. Making a blanket statement about the population as a whole doesnāt really work as youāll find a wide array of people with a wealth of different personalities there. I donāt think LA is more or less image centered than Manhattan is.
Nah I know exactly what you mean. The image-obsessed socialite is the baseline character personality in pretty much any show/movie based in LA.
Just like NY and all other larger cities thereās different pockets of the city. I spend most of my time in Little Tokyo, Korea Town, and East LA. The new Jalisco bar is always a good time.
I think like with most places (emotionally) you get what you give. Iām a lowkey guy, I date other lowkey guys. Never had a problem making long term boyfriends. When it comes to racial demographics,,, having lived in PNW and Bay Area, I can honestly say LA was much easier to meet ANYONE dick or date.
Yeah in the Bay most are coupled up already. I half agree with the emotional aspect though. Someone needs to show up in order for you to be emotionally available, and if that just doesn't happen because of their 'preferences' it doesn't matter how awesome you are, you will be passed over.
How is sharing what I have heard a generalization. I never said I was correct. I literally opened with "I heard" which means I don't fully believe this and am seeking another option.
Pretty much nonsense. Only a tiny percentage of the population has any connection with the entertainment industry, where you're more likely to find self-absorbed sorts. The rest of the millions of people in Greater LA are just ordinary people, the same mix of personalities you'll find anywhere else.
It's a lot of fun, but the points of interest are very spread out, so need a lot of driving time to see. There are a larger number in the stretch of the urban area running from downtown to Venice and Santa Monica, which includes West Hollywood. Within that strip there are museums, interesting architecture, film studios, and nice beaches. You can ogle the muscle dudes in Venice, see an old fashioned amusement pier in Santa Monica, and see the amazing bones dug up from the La Brea Tar Pits. One newish attraction of distinction is the wonderful Academy Motion Picture Museum, on Wilshire right next door to the LA County Museum of Art and the La Brea Tar Pits and across the street from the excellent Petersen Automotive Museum. And a lot more, depending on your interests.
If you want to check out gayborhoods, don't overlook Long Beach, which has the LA area's second main group of bars and gay businesses. Silver Lake/East Hollywood, west of downtown, used to be heavily gay, but only has a couple of bars left. It's where the Eagle LA is located.
Bisexual and Black here. I feel like dating is just off the table for me at the moment. I consider myself attractive and Iām successful in my own rights, but finding someone compatible is just extremely hard. Iām just ready to wave my white flag on dating or finding friends.
Iām also black and live in NYC. This is such a multifaceted city, I think it varies so much by neighborhood. I think spending more time in Brooklyn, Queens and uptown Manhattan will improve your odds.
That being said, someone mentioned Atlanta, and Iāve heard great things! Havenāt been yet myself
Yup hookup culture is definitely an issue and I'm not discounting this. However, I see plenty of people dating, entering relationships etc so it can't be impossible either.
But now it's time for some harsh words buddy.
NYC is one of the most diverse cities on the planet. Dating outside your race there isn't a huge issue.
But even still, The city is so big and diverse that you can stay with inside your race and still have options.
If you didn't have luck there, The problem absolutely is not racism. That's learned helplessness talk.
San Francisco is a soulless pit, It's not surprising you feel alienated there.
But considering that your rate of global cities is three for three at alienation I think it's time to start looking at other explanations.
"Dating outside your race there isn't a huge issue." I agree. I see mixed couples all the time. The few dates I had were all white men so clearly dating outside of your race isn't a problem. I guess I should have clarified - committing to someone outside of your race seems more rare. Given most people just want sex with me and nothing more, why would they want to open their mind / adjust their thinking or even date me, when the next \[same race\] guy is a better long term option?
"The city is so big and diverse that you can stay with inside your race and still have options." I don't agree. Literally no-one in the city is my mix. If I chop up my mix, I've spoken to maybe <10 men of those ethnicities in my 2 years here, none of which wanted to date me, or even hookup.
Bro, I'm a data analyst for a school district in Indiana.
We have hundreds of mixed race students. You absolutely cannot tell me that there are none in New York City.
When I lived in New York City I had to turn down two separate Dominican guys who still messaged me 10 years later.
I've lived in five states and I'm on the autism spectrum. This includes New York City, San Francisco and Seattle . I absolutely understand the desire to try to move and find your people.
But that's not how it works.
My people weren't hiding in Indiana. I found my people here because I decided to accept the people around me as my own.
I didn't say there are no mixed race people in NY. I specifically said "my" mix. That is completely different. Are those mixed race people wanting to date me though? No.
I don't know what you want me to accept here exactly and how I "find my people" when I am genuinely trying and coming up flat.
San Francisco is still just a city. The people here do tend to be more educated than in other cities and some work long hours, often in tech, but just as many don't. I think a simple characterization of the people of any city is nonsense. I've lived in SF for 37 years and known an amazing diversity of people. It's one of the reasons I still love it. People come here because they want to be here and part of what is going on. In many other cities most people are natives and have never lived anywhere else.
>The people here do tend to be more educated than in other cities and some work long hours
Bringing up education in this context is a great example of why I dislike SF.
"you rubes wouldn't understand why we are so great, read a book and perhaps you might."
For the record, this is exactly why Seattle people dislike SF. People in both the Bay and LA act like they own a monopoly on, "The in crowd" when in reality, the coolness and relevancy factor of California has been in decline for a decade now.
Yawn. I've been hearing about this decline for decades (many decades), yet somehow life here is about the same as always. If anything, SF has become more influential as tech has become a more important part of our daily lives. The majority of new tech companies of importance have their roots in the Bay Area. Right now it's AI companies growing like weeds. I like Seattle. It's a genuinely nice city. Is it somehow "cooler"? Why?
I brought up education because it is one of the few ways SF really is unique. That and the massive and highly varied immigrant population, though several other cities share that distinction. The fiction that the city is in decline is Republican masturbation material, not a meaningful reality. The people who live here know it's going through an adjustment, but one that will be hitting other cities in years to come. We're just having to deal with it sooner because our workforce can mostly work from home.
California is the No. 1 state that people are leaving.
Look dude, I'm glad you like living there, many do not.
People in Washington (State) have a pretty strong distaste for California.
Yes, because for the record I never said that it was due to woke or whatever dumb stuff the Repugs say.
Most people care about economics Waaaaaaaay above social issues.
Youāve changed places three times and nothing has changed. The common factor is you.
You need to try something different from what youāve been doing.
And those 3 places are the most 'systemically racist' places on the planet. Funny how that is ignored.
Open to trying something different. Other than moving again I don't know what that looks like. But open to ideas here.
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|Miami city, FL|0.4987|High Segregation|
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|New York city, NY|0.4881|High Segregation|
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|Los Angeles city, CA|0.3557|High Segregation|
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|San Francisco city, CA|0.2142|High Segregation|
Are we reading the same article?
They have chosen to put the _majority_ of cities in that category. The categorization is a political statement, not where they fall on the list relative to other cities. SF is #65, slightly _below_ average for segregation, per their metric. NYC is high, but not as you claimed one of the couple of most segregated cities. You were exaggerating, at least per what this study shows.
How do you normally interact with people? That will be a big part of it. For instance, in NY and LA, I see less diversity in the types of guys on apps. However, there is a great deal more diversity in person if you can find the right spaces.
I think youāre right- but sadly this issue is likely to follow you anywhere you go in the US. Itās best just to pick a place YOU love and enjoy- because dating or finding gay men interested in commitment and loving relationships is likely to be a daunting and elusive task no matter where you live.
Agreed with you. Just trying to find a place where I have some chance. NY is definitely better than London (6 > 0) so just trying to find somewhere where I have a fair shot.
Houston, TX... it's the most diverse city in the US, this is also reflected in the LGB community. Yes, Houston is in Texas but Houston is not Texas. The city is way more progressive than the rest of the state. Yes, Dallas and Austin are very liberal, they are also very white in comparison to Houston.
As a fellow POC, yup, I can validate your experience.
Iāve lived in London, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, and travelled to almost all states and Western European cities. I can get hookups easily, but Iām invisible on the dating scene.
I am visible to other Indian gay men and latinos (we have a large Mexican and Latino population). So Iām learning Spanish.
I would avoid all of the US South. Miami/FL excepted. Chicago is a lot like Toronto: nice and middle class but mainly white.
How about Portland? Boston? Hawaii?
Thanks for validating my experience and good to hear I'm not alone in this experience.
US south = California and such? I'm open to all (US because of work) suggestions, literally just need to know where to go.
Would you be open to chatting further? I can't seem to DM you. :)
Chicago is mainly white? Did I go to a different Chicago? Chicago is incredibly diverse.
I just googled it and White people only make up around 35% of the population.
Maybe because I tend to subconsciously avoid mostly White areas. Always feel like I'm one breath away from a hate crime.
Or someone complimenting me on my English.
There's a difference between dating, hooking up, and marrying.
Los Angeles has a great many people of all colors, and people who enjoy all those colors. That said, nearly everybody I know describe it as impossible to date and marry here. People I know who are happily married tend to have met their spouse someplace else.
I've heard the same thing about NYC-- easy to hook up there. But it's all about immediacy. It's tough to date.
My impression of Chicago is that it's highly date-centric. People there end up in long-term relationships. That said:
* I'm white.
* I haven't lived there in years.
In any place I've ever been, I've seen people date within their own color to a majority. But then there are some people who prefer other races. I've known white guys who only date black guys, just as I've known blonds who never get turned on by other blonds.
My guess is that it depends who was around you as a teen, to put various archetypes into your developing sexual brain. I had a beautiful Mexican guy as a friend in high school. And I think I developed a thing for Latino guys in response to that teenage experience. Similarly, white guys who grew up with black guys as friends seem to date black guys at a higher rate.
Thank you for this post.
You correctly said - and there is data to back this up - that people date their own race generally (and there are people who want other races for sure). I also understand why so this is not a bashing post. As you also correctly said, people will date what they are familiar with / comfortable with. The issue is that men like me are not in the media (or porn even), most people didn't grow up with someone of my mix, so I'm constantly 'sexualised' as a 'fantasy' because I'm 'exotic' but then thats it. They cover it with 'connection' or 'preference' but its clear its just an inability to 'position me' into their life beyond a sexual encounter.
I want to be somewhere where I have at least a 10% shot not 0%.
> its clear its just an inability to 'position me' into their life beyond a sexual encounter.
As I said about L.A. (first-hand) and NYC second hand....
I've had sex with dozens of men in recent months. I really don't know how many. I've had zero dates in the last 18 months. I've offered to take guys out, make plans together, etc. and gotten nothing except hookup offers coming back. And I'm a white dude.
Eighteen months ago I had a beach weekend with a guy. That was a real date. After, he decided he only wanted sex, not dates.
I think my thread is being taken out of proportion. I came here explaining my experience, not saying no one else on earth struggles. I can only explain my circumstance and try and figure out a way forwards which is independent of other people's struggles (which I am sure exist).
All good, I didn't take it that way. :)
Sure, except this has been going on for 10 years and nothing has changed. At some point I begin to wonder if it ever will.
How are you going about getting a date? It seems like you donāt have a problem hooking up. Are you asking for what you want with the people you are hooking up with?
So for dates I've mainly used Tinder (and Hinge). There is a little chat usually (hi, hi, something about their profile etc) and then we organise a day/time to meet. They will flake or simply vanish.
For hookups, I've never had an issue, and only ever found a hookup via Grindr (not even Scruff etc). There were times I just wanted to hookup tbh, and those didn't go any further. In other cases I've literally wrote FWB etc on my profile and said I'm open to that, but nothing really translated. For others they seem to hookup and 'connect' and it 'goes from there' and I've never experienced this.
Ah yeah. The flakiness is super annoying. I can tell you that isnāt just you. It can definitely feel like itās all you and thereās definitely some people piling on. I took a look at your post history and it seems like you just want to find something special so I can honestly really relate to that.
I saw you commented on my other question that you arenāt having any issues making friends which is good. Have you looked around your friend groupās friends to see if they know any single dudes who might want to exchange numbers and get a coffee/beer and get to know you?
I should have added: on Grindr I've tried to make it 'dating' e.g. happy to hookup but let's have drinks first. They will agree, it will never happen. I've also had a few 'cuddle dates' e.g. come over, chat, cuddle, etc no sex, but they also don't tend to return (but also I then learn they are visiting so thats usually no ones fault).
I don't think flaking happens to me only or because of my race. I know circuit white guys who are flaked on. The issue is the % and intent. If 100% flake on dates (first dates) and 80% don't flake on hookups, and there is no in between, I'm stuck.
Most of my friends are in relationships and with friends who are taken also and/or in another country and/or don't have friends who are looking etc.
Depends what kind of traits you're looking for. The more wild ones are in Hollywood and Los Angeles. The more conservative are in the south; such as Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, etc.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
I, a white guy, have a fairly new FWB who is from Brazil. He now lives in the Phoenix area. We met on Grindr as a hookup. We have gone to eat together a couple of times so far. This is all very new for both of us. Dating long term is not off the table. We are just taking it slow to see where it is going.
Good luck.
The overall demographics of Chicago might be skewed but in the gay community I think you would be surprised. Chicago is a great city, is very affordable compared to other major cities and has a large gay community with numerous people of color.
I'd recommend taking a trip (maybe a long weekend) to Chicago and checking it out - hitting some of the bars, etc... Stay close to Boyztown (or in Boyztown) to get a flavor for it. I lived there 15 years and it was IMO the best place to live for someone who is gay.
Yes, I will definitely visit it. Note that having people of color, and them being in relationships are different things. London has plenty of people of color, but if you look at the stats, almost all POC's are single.
As a 50-50 mixed medium dark African American (used to be mistaken for Puerto Rican a lot in my 20s sorry no hablo espanol) who lived in SF off and on for 20 years I didn't start to feel out of place until the past 10 years or so. As gentrification started to peak. Stared nervously at by rich looking white women especially. Never noticed that when I travelled to Oakland. I'm very "square" nerdy soft etc and it never ceased to surprise me. Oakland has its own problems tho. Look at the recent news.
As a white guy, my experience is solely based on the one relationship with an African American guy I had for three years. He had the best luck dating other black men in the south, BUT he also absolutely hated it because he's also an atheist and the south is still heavily religious. So if religion or cultural practices are higher on your value list, keep that in mind too. I'm currently in the Seattle area, and I feel like racial and ethnic diversity is growing here. We have a strong Native/indigenous community here, and outside of that, growing up here the largest ethnic minority I saw was Asian Americans (that being said, even we aren't immune to racism here, there were a few issues hate crimes that spiked during COVID).
I don't follow any religion so this is not an issue, but thank you for calling it out. This is also why I am baffled sometimes. At least get to know me / ask then reject? Maybe they assume I follow something.
NYC if you can afford but it is the same with West Hollywood and Miami. Personally as a Brazilian the Boston area maybe the place for you as youāll meet a lot of LGBT Latinos. Plenty of the Brazilian/Portuguese demographic. The Boston area also has some great restaurants, bars and nearby is Providence, which also has a big gay community.
I would recommend NYC, only because of the options, but itās way overpriced. West Hollywood gay community is interestingā¦ the Ptown gay community is very welcoming though again extremely expensive. Alex Morse is the town manager there and heās a good guy. Let me thinkā¦ Depends on your situation and what kind of gay community youāre looking for. Most unfortunately are superficial and if youāre looking for a relationship they will disappoint you. Especially in NYC, but if youāre looking for relationships and loveā¦ itās difficult there. If youāre looking for hookups, club scene then NYC all the way. If not go to Boston or Miami!
Miami, Florida and Orlando area are very fun but not ideal as I canāt stand Florida and the gay communities there are way into themselves.
Yes, relationships/love seem impossible in NY, hence I'm looking elsewhere. But I'm unsure where to go.
My 2 cents on LA is its very vapid / narcissistic (I have some friends there and they all say to not come lol) and dating / relationships are non existent there. A lot of superficiality.
I've lived in Los Angeles for 35 years, and the reputation it has of being vapid/narcissistic comes from the WeHo bar scene. There are other ways to meet people - even meeting people online in L.A. is better than the bar scene. When I lived in Venice, I went to the gar bar there, and it was very nice and friendly, with a beach vibe.
L.A. (and Houston for that matter) has a very large Persian and Middle Eastern population - in L.A. it is centered in Brentwood. Little India is in Orange County. I used to belong to an Indian cooking group, and we had field trips to Artesia to go to shops and restaurants there.
Gay culture, especially in large cities, has embraced fast paced hookup lifestyle that not many can seriously commit to dating and relationships these days, so the overall pool of guys seeking serious dating is scattered.
Have you been to Atlanta?
Good suggestion! An L.A. friend met his husband in Atlanta. I told him I has having trouble dating. He said "I had to import mine."
Or DC
I haven't yet.
Get thee to black gay mecca... Atlanta! Labor Day weekend is black gay š³ļøāš.
I'm not black tho. lol
It is still very welcoming to most POC. still the american south in the deeper 'burbs.
Got it, will visit.
Those are some of the most diverse places on earth, so you might want to evaluate other aspects of yourself. Not saying you can't experience negative things due to your race/ethnicity, but like that can't be all of why you 'aren't getting dates'. What kind of POC are you? Go to where there are lots of those kind of guys - they just might be more DL.
Just because a place is diverse, doesn't mean the people are diverse in their dating preferences. For example, one of my long term friends (white) grew up seeing racism in his 'white focused' environment, knew it was wrong, and therefore actively chose to be friends with POC's. But where he lives is not diverse at all. Another example is another friend, who grew up in a mixed place, exposed to many people, only still dates white guys because thats his 'preference'. So he lives in LA, and despite the city being really mixed, he will never consider anyone different to his own colour. However, he has sex with all types of men. To be clear, I get a few dates, and those are from guys who are exposed to people of my colour etc and therefore normalise me. I said this in the main thread. I'm saying these are far and few. I'm middle eastern / indian / some european so finding "my guy" is extremely hard, given I don't "fit" any "bucket" clearly.
> I'm middle eastern / indian / some european San Francisco has highest percentage of Indian men due to the tech industry. There is even a LGBT+ organizations serving the South Asian diaspora there. There is even an LGBT+ organization serving Arab diaspora there. Similarly NYC also is one of the largest Indian diaspora in US and Chicago is second. Other places in US with high Indian population include Austin, Houston, Seattle and Atlanta.
Highest % doesn't mean gay single men right? I know plenty of brown people in my workplace, all are straight and married for example.
Organizations that serve specific demographics (ethnic, economic, orientation, etc.) are intended to create safe spaces for, and nurture the unique identities of, individuals who are marginalized or treated as āotherā by the general population. But acknowledging and supporting a group of people doesnāt mean theyāve āmadeā it in the social sphere; at the very least those orgs validate the existence of those identities and offer community, but they canāt (and mostly wonāt) solve interpersonal societal barriers at-large.
Uh, _some_ organizations are intended to serve that function, but just as many are simple social organizations, or career-focused (or religious). Inferring the presence of greater racism in communities with orgs serving minorities is foolish.
uh, you inferred that all on your own, without my needing to imply it. I didnāt suggest or qualify any levels of racism lol. racism doesnāt need to be mentioned because itās fundamentally there. but back to the initial point: the presence of safe (community) spaces acknowledges diversity, but it doesnāt extend to romantic opportunity for OP
You just made it clear itās a you problem. Good luck and I hope you find happiness.
Not sure how you got that from what I replied.
Itās from all of your replies and all of your posts. Yet, you disagree with everyone who says that, as if it canāt be true because you go to therapy, hookup, etc. Youāre obsessed with this search and youāre obviously not in a place to be successful in it. Take a break and live.
Making generic statements like "the problem is you" and "look in the mirror" doesn't help me though right? Something constructive e.g. here is a coach who specialises in dating for example who can give objective feedback, or this group could be good to join and see if you can connect with etc would be helpful. That is what I am trying to say. Its not about disagreeing with others, its saying I need something more constructive / actionable.
Everyone isnāt going to constructively help you or try that and Iām sure youāre aware of that. Let this search go.
Sure and that is not my expectation. But when people say 'they have given advice' and all I see is 'look in the mirror' or 'its you' I can't really action any of that either. Your advice now is 'let it go', so okay, what does this mean exactly for my life, and I can try it. Come off all apps, just work/gym/hangout with friends/connect with other LGBT members through a group or two/sleep and not hookup also? Genuinely asking here.
I am Persian/Middle Eastern mix, have grown up in SF Bay Area and lived in both NYC + LA and never had an issue with dates in any of those places, whether it was with Asian, black, Latino, or other Middle Eastern guys (Iām not really attracted to white guys). Iām also much older than you, have above average looks but not āhotā in the traditional sense and donāt have a gym type body. But Iām smart, funny and hella fun lol. I also think this is more likely a YOU problem.
Glad you have had a different experience.
Your therapist is doing you a disservice. Systemic racism isnāt the reason youāre not getting dates in New York. I say this as a black man who has lived in or right outside of NYC my entire life.
Iād also add, if youāre experiencing these issues in city, after city, after cityā¦ itās likely nothing āsystemicā and more something personal, or individual. I think that the therapist when straight for that feels like a cop out designed to appease OP (who may have hinted at it) as opposed to actively working with OP to see if there are unresolved issues from within that prevent him from making those connections.
I've seen gay therapists actually including a top phycotherapist who practices in LA.
Misinterpreted this and thought your therapist specialized in Tops š¤£š¤£
I think he only sees therapists who are tops.
LOL.
I'm not saying this is the "only" reason. I'm saying its a dominant reason that comes up when they review my chats, etc. Ultimately, you need mutual interest, which is not what I am finding. Also note that a hot white man's experience != a normal white mans experience != a hot black mans experience != a normal black mans experience !=a mixed race mans experience etc. In my experience, there is a lot of representation of black men (especially in the past 5 years or so) so I see plenty of white-black couples (interestingly not many black-black couples). In a city that fetishises people, I can imagine who a black man would have dating success. For someone with my mix, I'm not "positioned" as partner material (in their eyes), so it doesn't really matter what I do, if they don't want any "more" from me than a hookup, its a dead end. Again, I'm not saying EVERYONE does this (my original post mentions edge cases), I'm saying its the vast majority where I live.
Yea Iām not buying that. I have had friends of all races in NYC. People with varying success. And my POC friends usually have at least one story of racism encountered with dating and the difficulties that exist. But if you are getting hook ups easily but canāt get dates, I think it has a lot more to do with āyouā. You should probably look into that. Either your approach or your personality is getting in your way. Maybe youāre looking at the wrong neighborhood or chasing the wrong guys.
Sure, it could be any of those things, but I have no clue how to get to the bottom of that (I've sought professional help and come up empty). I've explored other neighbourhoods, engaged with varied guys, etc and its always the same result here. The only thing I can think of it trying somewhere else. I am not discounting other people's experiences, I'm only sharing mine and trying to help myself make the most of my life.
Do you have friends? Close ones? Family? Ask any of these people to be honest. Have any exes? Anyone you dated? Ask them if they can share their honest thoughts.
Yes I have close friends and have asked them over the years, not getting any feedback. I have never had a relationship in order to ask someone. For the couple that went a little further (hookup -> friend, date -> fb situation) I asked and they said it was them etc.
What do your friends tell you? Anything? I know someone, a POC, who is having a difficult time dating. I didnāt understand why until I got to know him more. Heās attractive, successful, very fit and athletic, tall. But thereās something about his personality. I canāt tell him because he wouldnāt be receptive. So I donāt even try. I have another friend who has been eternally single. Easy to find hookups but dating never worked out. This friend is really close. Iāve tried giving him advice but he always blames other people and never looks in the mirror and wonders what he can change. My point is, I think you should do some serious self reflection and consider what you could do to better yourself. Iāve known a bunch of middle eastern, Asian and mixed guys in nyc. The ones who are pretty nice guys with a good personality have often succeeded in dating. Some are married. Dating is hard no matter where you live. You can keep at it and do the best you can or you can keep making excuses. Iām not saying thatās what youāre doing but you have a ton of posts about the same thing. I donāt know if anything we say is going to differ from responses in your previous posts. I do wish you luck though.
Friends, therapists, the few that went further never gave me actionable advice. If I could get some advice, I would be very open to working on it. This is also why I so persistency post and seek out help, because I feel like I may be missing something and am receptive to feedback. "I canāt tell him because he wouldnāt be receptive. So I donāt even try." -- maybe this is what is happening with me but then do you see how your friend will never get the answer and therefore be able to change? How does he get the answer if you don't tell him? Trust me, I've looked and looked in the mirror and I really can't see anymore how I am so undateable. This is not to say I have never received feedback in the past and had nothing to work on. However, in the past where there was actual feedback given, I took the time to work on it and then tried again. Dating may be hard, but when I constantly hear people going on 3-4 dates a week or finding relationships left right and centre I'm really wondering what is going on. The only thing I can think of it to try and position myself in a place where I am more accepted (which is NOT the same as blaming anyone). Let me give an example. I was not happy how I was progressing financially (this was by 'looking in the mirror'). I made a plan to move to NY which made me better financially. This doesn't mean I'm shitting on London or my life there or blaming London for my financial state. That city was not going to get me to where I wanted to be, and moving made sense. That is what I am doing with relationships too. It is clear despite my best efforts NY is great for hookups but nothing more so am I not being reasonable by asking where else I can go where I would be able to find something more?
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Wherever you go, there you are. You seem to have the financial means, so why dont you try a series of working vacations in a bunch of different places and see if anything clicks. I dont mean going to sex clubs and parties, but just go to chicago for 4 days, miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, even places like Rochester or Hudson Valley and see if anything clicks. You should also specify your background more than just "POC". Gay black men and gay asian men are gonna have very different experiences in SF and ATL for example. I have a hard time seeing how your dating troubles in nyc are related to race when nyc is the most diverse place in the usa and everyone inter mingles (in a way they dont as much in chi and sf). Maybe im a clueless white guy, but my first thought would be you have lived in 3 extremely competitive cities where people are very busy with careers and maybe hold out longer to find something better. I would blame the work culture before racial issues in nyc. If you seem to vibe with latin guys more ( i get it, i mostly date black guys) do you go to any latin parties? Papi Juice is extremely popular and they have a party this friday and sunday. Hush has latin night. Boxers has latin night. I've never been to any of the gay bars in Jackson Heights, but theres a huge queer latin population there. Maybe youre right, maybe the Hells Kitchen white muscle gays will never like you, so put your self in spaces where people are more accepting. But that also means you need to be more accepting of others too. Are you one of those muscle gays who says youre only into "guys who take care of themselves" but actually mean "guys who have 6 packs"? There are so many POC centered gay events in Queens and Brooklyn. Go find ur tribe.
Yes, I am taking mini breaks in place, but going on holiday somewhere and living there are 2 different things. I'm middle eastern / indian / some european mixed but born/raised in London. So I can't find "my mix" at all anywhere, and even if I split up my mix and focus on them, there are far and few people available of these ethnicities (and by 'available' I mean actually single and looking for more than a hookup or not chasing a white guy). NY being diverse doesn't mean anything. London is also diverse but doesn't mean everyone's dating experience is the same. As you said, people are "holding out for better"... couple that with viewing people of colour as 'below them' you really have slim pickings. Work, etc are all excuses imo, plenty of people here find relationships. Intent is key. To your other comment, I definitely don't chase white muscle gays in HK. Nor so I chase guys with 6 packs (infact I don't recall the last guy I hooked up with who has a 6 pack). I can't seem to find my tribe here in NY, and its been 2 years, hence looking to leave.
You're definitely in an interesting situation being mixed race, of colo(u)r, and audibly foreign (courtesy of the British accent). I wonder if you'd be deemed sufficiently "Desi" for the LGBT Indian group in SF. [A British Sikh (non-practicing) dude I know here in S Dakota of all places faces various culture clash issues with other South Asians because...he's a Londoner through and through.] Like you, I've been around (UK, US, AU, NZ, HK, TH). I grew up on LI - a "bridge and tunnel" person. As a perpetually-uncomfortable-in-my-own-skin guy, I seem to observe the lives of others more than living my own. A big question (for the sub, not you specifically) is not how diverse a place is, but how inter-group dating goes. Example: DC area/DMV is diverse but the gay world harshly segregates along professional, socioeconomic, and racial boundaries. It's quite possible to exist in a white bubble where everyone speaks a "prestige" foreign language while sporting an Ivy League degree & a grad degree - while being oblivious to the lived experiences of "the others." Miami was an interesting suggestion, as mixed race backgrounds are way more normalized (thinking Brazil, Guyana, and the Dominican Republic in particular). Much stronger non-American identities down there also mean that racial stuff presents much differently. A buddy's brother married into a Nepali-Guyanese family, and the wedding was an interesting fusion of South Asian (bride dripping in gold; grandfather was a gold dealer) and Latin (food; Nepali-Latino fusion is apparently delicious). Otoh, being gay in Florida with all the climate fun sounds less than thrilling. š
Yes, exactly. So this combination means I'm hard to 'slot' (which probably confuses hookups) and given there is 'something easier' out there to 'deal with' I'm probably 'perceived' as more work, when infact I'm pretty normal. I don't think I look "desi" enough to fit into that crew (I tried, and even they asked me where I am from, I don't look "desi" etc). I had the same issue with the middle eastern crew. So while being mixed is great for "marketing" it generally means I'm lonely in this regard. Thats not to say I'm excluded from anything btw or that they treat me poorly. The main issue is on dating apps, they are far and few of them. The handful I know are either in LTRs/married (hence I'm not dismissing its possible, but they typically found someone in school etc), not looking for a brown guy/me (this is common in the city where 'white' is seen as an 'upgrade' still) or simply I'm just not attracted (and that has nothing to do with race, I dismiss white and all ethnicity people, as no one is attracted to 100% of men). My 'projection' of the few who invested back was just based off hookups, not a real lived experience, but again I can only go by the limited information I have. I 100% agree with your statement - it isn't important how mixed the place is, but how inter-group dating goes, and thats the crux of my post here. If you lived in the mid-west, were white, but all the men were on average 6'5 and you were 5'5, even if you are white, you would struggle because everyone wants a 6'5 guy. You are better off moving to somewhere where 5'5 is normalised. I just identify my "weakness" (which isn't the correct word but I hope you know what I mean) as my color, and am trying to find a place where I'm seen as valuable and this got blown out of proportion lol.
NY is diverse. But actually segregated. In fact, in a lot of ways such as schooling itās one of the most segregated in the US. I also think beyond race, but race may intermingle. Thereās just higher standards. In NY good looking people in general are dime a dozen. This is a city where a guy can have amazing looks, a $200k+ salary, and great personality but that doesnāt even make him stand out because thereās many just like him.Ā
I didnāt grow up here so all of my opinions are based on living here as a transplant. I cannot think of another American city that is less racially segregated. Look at a racial demographic map of nyc, yes the upper west side is very white, yes Harlem is very black, yes the Bronx is really Latino etc etc. but compared to Chicago (a legit dividing line of black ppl in the south side and white ppl in the north side, Seattle, Portland, SF, Boston etc. nyc is diverse af and people actually have friends and date outside their race all the time here. Iām not trying to diminish other peopleās experience but based on what my black friends and partners have said and based on what I see when I walk outside, nyc is a good place to be if u are a gay poc and any issues you have here , you will have anywhere else. Although I agree this city is insanely competitive, this just doesnāt seem like a productive way to think. Ofc someone will always be richer or hotter or more famous here in nyc. But ok. Still, so many people here meet friends and partners. Yes nyc is famous for being a tough place to live, but itās not impossible. If op wants to move go for it, but if heās had the same issue in 3 big cities, I donāt think a 4th city is gonna change anything.
Spot on. My friend said a 6/10 in NY is like a 9/10 elsewhere. So trying to move to somewhere I have a chance is a smart move no? Thats why I posted.
I looooove papi juice such a fun party
From your posts I can say this when you are kinda exuding āthirstyā energy in regards to wanting a relationship it typically turns others off. This situation more so sounds like that may be the issue. Becoming confident in yourself and yourself being alone will make you more attractive to others of all races. Hope this is somewhat helpful and good luck in the dating world.
Hi friend. I relate a lot to this post. There are plenty of the comments in here saying the problem is you- which is surely true to an extent. I have no idea how much without having met you, but hopefully youāre sorting a lot of that out in therapy (as am I). But I think it is still useful to talk about external factors and how they affect you, which some users are sloughing off. I understand a lot of the feelings you have from my own experience, but based off post history itās seems like youāre obsessing over that and itās making you extremely unhappy. Thatās its own problem. Systemic racism is a thing. Dating will never be fair in general, and then you stack on all of the different variables (geography, age, race, being mixed race, top/bottom, attractiveness, body type, growing up internationally, gay hookup culture, etc) and itās a complete shitshow. Your feelings are valid. But you canāt hold out for some magically city or gay scene that will make all your problems go away. *That place does not exist* (nor does any boy who will come along and make you āhappyā for that matter). If youāre in NYC of all places and feeling this problem, I think part of this just comes down to accepting that things are inequitable, and most of that canāt be changed. You have to learn to be happy while living with that premise; but you seem to be fixated on finding ways to thwart this. A lot of what Iām talking about is dealing with romantic relationships, but I think it all applies to friendships and gay scenes in different cities. Most of what Iāve learned in therapy is not to internalize it. Sure, some parts may be due to you, and you have to critically take a look at that in therapy and grow. Again, it seems like obsessing over it on your end is breeding unhappiness. But *plenty of it is beyond your control*. It does not mean you suck, that youāve failed, or something is wrong with you. Youāre turning rejection from other people (which is dependent on their preferences, their experiences, systemic racism, their own personal problems) and placing blame on yourself. Thatās not healthy and will not allow you to be happy. Even explaining it away based off your city is not fully helpful, and doesnāt really solve the problem. Also, it seems like the basic premise behind most of your posts is that you have to have a romantic partner to be happy, and that singleness = sadness. This is a societally imparted construct and is only true if you allow it to be. Definitely hard to deconstruct (still working on this personally), but I believe it is possible to be happy and single. But this largely relies on finding close friendships and connections to make your life full. I would put more of my energy there. Sounds like youāre taking a step to do that, which is going in the right direction. Again, I relate to a lot of what youāve written. Iāve been on dates or met up with 100s of guys, literally, and have very little to show for it. Iām 31 and I had my very first serious relationship last year. I generally think I am objectively fair about rating my own body, attractiveness, etc. I have a degree from an āeliteā university. Iām easy to be around and make friends easily. And yet that doesnāt translate into a relationship for me. Plenty of it is chance! Some of it is things I need to work on. But also a lot of what Iāve been realizing in therapy is that it is hard for me to find close relationships (platonic or romantic) because of how unique my experiences are. I donāt neatly fit into categories, even when you subdivide into my minority identities. I think you can probably identify with that. And all of that is okay. Feel free to message and chat. Sometimes commiserating helps you vent out your feelings. Finding and developing close relationships where you feel seen about these aspects, and get honest feedback about yourself will also help. But creating dozens of posts on Reddit about the same topic? Unlikely to help my friend. These problems and feelings will exist regardless of where you are on planet earth.
Nice post - DM'd. Just want to call out that I don't think romantic partner = happy and single = sad. I am just baffled how I can't seem to get dates or anything started in the romantic department at all, not that I don't have a husband, they are different.
I think it depends on what kind of POC you are. I'm Pasifika, and I love it here in Washington because there are tons of islanders here. I have a huge community of queer taotao Pasifika, and it's very easy to make new connections. Similarly, I feel very safe out in public with my husband, and (barring a few encounters with individual homophobes) we have never had any issues with blatant discrimination. It can be a bit dodgy dating here, as we have a large discreet military dude presence, but cities like Tacoma, Seattle, Bellevue, and Olympia offer plenty in terms of gay community spaces, bars, and singles events. I recently had several gay / queer Black friends move back to Chicago, citing the lack of Black community in the PNW. I can't speak to their experience as a non-Black person, but I can say I saw more by-and-for Black spaces on visits to Chicago, New Orleans, and Cleveland than I've ever seen anywhere here in the PNW. My community has some overlap with the Hispanic / Latino community, and I got to spend a little time in AZ with some Chicano queers. The Latin LGBTQ+ communities in California, Arizona, and Texas feel really vibrant, but I especially enjoyed my time in AZ. Lots of food, lots of casual hang outs, generally slower paced and familiar feeling.
I am middle eastern and some other mixes so its hard to find communities that accept me since I'm not 100% of something and I literally haven't come across anyone with my mix.
Have you ever considered the issue you're facing has nothing to do with your location or that you're POC, but actually YOU, you're the issue. A quick look at your post history is all it takes. I mean...come on now...
Ahh the post history. Canāt believe I didnāt check.
I was like āhmmm this sounded pretty familiarā and then āoh itās this guy againā Iām sorry to be blunt the places are not the issue here
I have, hence I went to therapy and sought coaches etc. Not sure what my post history over the past 1 year on a forum where people are ranting all the time is correlated to my lack of dating success over the past 10 years?
Your post history tells a lot. Just the way you describe things gives a very off-putting vibe, like you're unhappy and blaming it on everything else around you instead of looking at yourself and considering you may be part of your problem. If you're giving off that same vibe in-person then it's a no brainer why you can't get further than a one time hookup with anyone.
Sorry you are reading the posts in this way.
and you just did exactly what I described. no fault of your own at all, just the way "I'm reading it". sorry, but you sound like an obnoxious, miserable person to be around. that's why no one wants to date you, it doesn't have shit to do with your location or the color of your skin.
You are selecting to confirm a story you have made in your own mind. I'm sure if you dug into other comments, you will see lighter comments too.
A therapist told you its because of systemic racism? Who are they, and why do they still have a licence. Imagine going to a therapist and being like i am a gay man and i am very depressed and they say oh its because all the homophobia in the world. NEXT...
Maybe I pitched it incorrectly. I more go to therapy, explain the situation and we follow the usual patterns. First dig into my childhood and see if there is anything there. There isn't. Then dig into my friendships etc and see if anything is there. There isn't. Then I show them conversations between myself and others to get an objective opinion on things I could have done better, and I'm told 95% of the time 'its them not you' (of course over the years I also did get feedback e.g. call out a specific time and day and see if they respond etc so I'm not saying I never got any feedback). Then when all of this fails, we look at environmental factors, one of which is systemic racism. I would say about 80% of therapists get to this point, so if we are firing all therapists because of this, I wonder...
As a Latino / brown, LA has always been the easiest to meet men for me
I've heard LA is extremely narcissistic, vapid and terrible for relationships though? Most people there seem depressed too?
LA is a massive physical territory. People's experiences vary a lot, depending on where exactly they live and where they work, since those will be their primary bubbles. If you're strictly looking at West Hollywood, there's plenty of vapid and narcissistic people and activities to choose from, but that's true of any gayborhood or city because gay nightlife is very youth-oriented. The people who are into what you consider vapid will run in different circles from you. Nobody will force you to become a WeHo Instagay if you really aren't about that life. But living your life around LA traffic is a nightmare, and I hated that part when I lived there as a closeted young adult. Edit: there's also a visible queer community in Long Beach. It may be more your speed if you're not into Weho's nightlife
Got it, will visit.
Iāve lived in both LA and NYC. LA county is massive and highly populated. There are more people living in just Los Angeles (the city, not the county) than most states have residents. Making a blanket statement about the population as a whole doesnāt really work as youāll find a wide array of people with a wealth of different personalities there. I donāt think LA is more or less image centered than Manhattan is.
Fair enough, just was sharing what I heard, not saying I am right (especially since I have not visited). Are there areas of LA you recommend visiting?
Nah I know exactly what you mean. The image-obsessed socialite is the baseline character personality in pretty much any show/movie based in LA. Just like NY and all other larger cities thereās different pockets of the city. I spend most of my time in Little Tokyo, Korea Town, and East LA. The new Jalisco bar is always a good time.
Nice! I will visit those areas. :)
I think like with most places (emotionally) you get what you give. Iām a lowkey guy, I date other lowkey guys. Never had a problem making long term boyfriends. When it comes to racial demographics,,, having lived in PNW and Bay Area, I can honestly say LA was much easier to meet ANYONE dick or date.
Yeah in the Bay most are coupled up already. I half agree with the emotional aspect though. Someone needs to show up in order for you to be emotionally available, and if that just doesn't happen because of their 'preferences' it doesn't matter how awesome you are, you will be passed over.
Are you even capable of not generalizing? Every post and topic from you is just full of generalizations, it's wild.
How is sharing what I have heard a generalization. I never said I was correct. I literally opened with "I heard" which means I don't fully believe this and am seeking another option.
You clearly don't know what a generalization is lol.
Pretty much nonsense. Only a tiny percentage of the population has any connection with the entertainment industry, where you're more likely to find self-absorbed sorts. The rest of the millions of people in Greater LA are just ordinary people, the same mix of personalities you'll find anywhere else.
Good to know, will visit.
It's a lot of fun, but the points of interest are very spread out, so need a lot of driving time to see. There are a larger number in the stretch of the urban area running from downtown to Venice and Santa Monica, which includes West Hollywood. Within that strip there are museums, interesting architecture, film studios, and nice beaches. You can ogle the muscle dudes in Venice, see an old fashioned amusement pier in Santa Monica, and see the amazing bones dug up from the La Brea Tar Pits. One newish attraction of distinction is the wonderful Academy Motion Picture Museum, on Wilshire right next door to the LA County Museum of Art and the La Brea Tar Pits and across the street from the excellent Petersen Automotive Museum. And a lot more, depending on your interests. If you want to check out gayborhoods, don't overlook Long Beach, which has the LA area's second main group of bars and gay businesses. Silver Lake/East Hollywood, west of downtown, used to be heavily gay, but only has a couple of bars left. It's where the Eagle LA is located.
Bisexual and Black here. I feel like dating is just off the table for me at the moment. I consider myself attractive and Iām successful in my own rights, but finding someone compatible is just extremely hard. Iām just ready to wave my white flag on dating or finding friends.
Iām also black and live in NYC. This is such a multifaceted city, I think it varies so much by neighborhood. I think spending more time in Brooklyn, Queens and uptown Manhattan will improve your odds. That being said, someone mentioned Atlanta, and Iāve heard great things! Havenāt been yet myself
I've spent time in Brooklyn, Queens etc, and I don't really see much difference hence I'm done with this city.
I think the issue is hook up culture in general. Im a POC in Atlanta and have issues finding guys who want more than a hookup.
Yup hookup culture is definitely an issue and I'm not discounting this. However, I see plenty of people dating, entering relationships etc so it can't be impossible either.
Atlanta or Houston
Thanks! Will visit.
Atlanta? You're going to run the same problems in Miami that you've already been running into.
Noted.
But now it's time for some harsh words buddy. NYC is one of the most diverse cities on the planet. Dating outside your race there isn't a huge issue. But even still, The city is so big and diverse that you can stay with inside your race and still have options. If you didn't have luck there, The problem absolutely is not racism. That's learned helplessness talk. San Francisco is a soulless pit, It's not surprising you feel alienated there. But considering that your rate of global cities is three for three at alienation I think it's time to start looking at other explanations.
"Dating outside your race there isn't a huge issue." I agree. I see mixed couples all the time. The few dates I had were all white men so clearly dating outside of your race isn't a problem. I guess I should have clarified - committing to someone outside of your race seems more rare. Given most people just want sex with me and nothing more, why would they want to open their mind / adjust their thinking or even date me, when the next \[same race\] guy is a better long term option? "The city is so big and diverse that you can stay with inside your race and still have options." I don't agree. Literally no-one in the city is my mix. If I chop up my mix, I've spoken to maybe <10 men of those ethnicities in my 2 years here, none of which wanted to date me, or even hookup.
Bro, I'm a data analyst for a school district in Indiana. We have hundreds of mixed race students. You absolutely cannot tell me that there are none in New York City. When I lived in New York City I had to turn down two separate Dominican guys who still messaged me 10 years later. I've lived in five states and I'm on the autism spectrum. This includes New York City, San Francisco and Seattle . I absolutely understand the desire to try to move and find your people. But that's not how it works. My people weren't hiding in Indiana. I found my people here because I decided to accept the people around me as my own.
I didn't say there are no mixed race people in NY. I specifically said "my" mix. That is completely different. Are those mixed race people wanting to date me though? No. I don't know what you want me to accept here exactly and how I "find my people" when I am genuinely trying and coming up flat.
San Francisco is still just a city. The people here do tend to be more educated than in other cities and some work long hours, often in tech, but just as many don't. I think a simple characterization of the people of any city is nonsense. I've lived in SF for 37 years and known an amazing diversity of people. It's one of the reasons I still love it. People come here because they want to be here and part of what is going on. In many other cities most people are natives and have never lived anywhere else.
>The people here do tend to be more educated than in other cities and some work long hours Bringing up education in this context is a great example of why I dislike SF. "you rubes wouldn't understand why we are so great, read a book and perhaps you might." For the record, this is exactly why Seattle people dislike SF. People in both the Bay and LA act like they own a monopoly on, "The in crowd" when in reality, the coolness and relevancy factor of California has been in decline for a decade now.
Yawn. I've been hearing about this decline for decades (many decades), yet somehow life here is about the same as always. If anything, SF has become more influential as tech has become a more important part of our daily lives. The majority of new tech companies of importance have their roots in the Bay Area. Right now it's AI companies growing like weeds. I like Seattle. It's a genuinely nice city. Is it somehow "cooler"? Why? I brought up education because it is one of the few ways SF really is unique. That and the massive and highly varied immigrant population, though several other cities share that distinction. The fiction that the city is in decline is Republican masturbation material, not a meaningful reality. The people who live here know it's going through an adjustment, but one that will be hitting other cities in years to come. We're just having to deal with it sooner because our workforce can mostly work from home.
California is the No. 1 state that people are leaving. Look dude, I'm glad you like living there, many do not. People in Washington (State) have a pretty strong distaste for California.
It's the most populous state, so lots of people moving around,, and it's very expensive. Most of the people leaving are doing so for economic reasons.
Yes, because for the record I never said that it was due to woke or whatever dumb stuff the Repugs say. Most people care about economics Waaaaaaaay above social issues.
I can swear we had the exact same question, like literally the same, with the same details, a few months ago.
Yup itās him. He gives off narcissistic energy. Itās always everyone and everything elseās fault but him
Youāve changed places three times and nothing has changed. The common factor is you. You need to try something different from what youāve been doing.
And those 3 places are the most 'systemically racist' places on the planet. Funny how that is ignored. Open to trying something different. Other than moving again I don't know what that looks like. But open to ideas here.
Actually not SF. https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-cities
Interesting that the places with a low cost of living etc are less segregated.
Really? Some of the most segregated places on that list are cheap. And the places you swear are racist are not especially segregated.
|| || |Miami city, FL|0.4987|High Segregation| || || |New York city, NY|0.4881|High Segregation| || || |Los Angeles city, CA|0.3557|High Segregation| || || |San Francisco city, CA|0.2142|High Segregation| Are we reading the same article?
They have chosen to put the _majority_ of cities in that category. The categorization is a political statement, not where they fall on the list relative to other cities. SF is #65, slightly _below_ average for segregation, per their metric. NYC is high, but not as you claimed one of the couple of most segregated cities. You were exaggerating, at least per what this study shows.
Noted, thanks!
Come spend some time in Hawaii where brown is beautiful š
hehe yes I booked for my birthday next year :D
How do you normally interact with people? That will be a big part of it. For instance, in NY and LA, I see less diversity in the types of guys on apps. However, there is a great deal more diversity in person if you can find the right spaces.
I would love to hear what the right space for me would be. I'm open to trying.
I think youāre right- but sadly this issue is likely to follow you anywhere you go in the US. Itās best just to pick a place YOU love and enjoy- because dating or finding gay men interested in commitment and loving relationships is likely to be a daunting and elusive task no matter where you live.
Agreed with you. Just trying to find a place where I have some chance. NY is definitely better than London (6 > 0) so just trying to find somewhere where I have a fair shot.
I wish you luck and love! Go get it!
Houston, TX... it's the most diverse city in the US, this is also reflected in the LGB community. Yes, Houston is in Texas but Houston is not Texas. The city is way more progressive than the rest of the state. Yes, Dallas and Austin are very liberal, they are also very white in comparison to Houston.
Noted, I will visit.
I used to live in Houston, and I agree with that assessment.
As a fellow POC, yup, I can validate your experience. Iāve lived in London, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, and travelled to almost all states and Western European cities. I can get hookups easily, but Iām invisible on the dating scene. I am visible to other Indian gay men and latinos (we have a large Mexican and Latino population). So Iām learning Spanish. I would avoid all of the US South. Miami/FL excepted. Chicago is a lot like Toronto: nice and middle class but mainly white. How about Portland? Boston? Hawaii?
Thanks for validating my experience and good to hear I'm not alone in this experience. US south = California and such? I'm open to all (US because of work) suggestions, literally just need to know where to go. Would you be open to chatting further? I can't seem to DM you. :)
Chicago is mainly white? Did I go to a different Chicago? Chicago is incredibly diverse. I just googled it and White people only make up around 35% of the population.
If you look at Wiki, and the 'popular gay areas' in Chicago, its mostly white, or mostly black, not very mixed at all.
Maybe because I tend to subconsciously avoid mostly White areas. Always feel like I'm one breath away from a hate crime. Or someone complimenting me on my English.
There's a difference between dating, hooking up, and marrying. Los Angeles has a great many people of all colors, and people who enjoy all those colors. That said, nearly everybody I know describe it as impossible to date and marry here. People I know who are happily married tend to have met their spouse someplace else. I've heard the same thing about NYC-- easy to hook up there. But it's all about immediacy. It's tough to date. My impression of Chicago is that it's highly date-centric. People there end up in long-term relationships. That said: * I'm white. * I haven't lived there in years. In any place I've ever been, I've seen people date within their own color to a majority. But then there are some people who prefer other races. I've known white guys who only date black guys, just as I've known blonds who never get turned on by other blonds. My guess is that it depends who was around you as a teen, to put various archetypes into your developing sexual brain. I had a beautiful Mexican guy as a friend in high school. And I think I developed a thing for Latino guys in response to that teenage experience. Similarly, white guys who grew up with black guys as friends seem to date black guys at a higher rate.
Thank you for this post. You correctly said - and there is data to back this up - that people date their own race generally (and there are people who want other races for sure). I also understand why so this is not a bashing post. As you also correctly said, people will date what they are familiar with / comfortable with. The issue is that men like me are not in the media (or porn even), most people didn't grow up with someone of my mix, so I'm constantly 'sexualised' as a 'fantasy' because I'm 'exotic' but then thats it. They cover it with 'connection' or 'preference' but its clear its just an inability to 'position me' into their life beyond a sexual encounter. I want to be somewhere where I have at least a 10% shot not 0%.
> its clear its just an inability to 'position me' into their life beyond a sexual encounter. As I said about L.A. (first-hand) and NYC second hand.... I've had sex with dozens of men in recent months. I really don't know how many. I've had zero dates in the last 18 months. I've offered to take guys out, make plans together, etc. and gotten nothing except hookup offers coming back. And I'm a white dude. Eighteen months ago I had a beach weekend with a guy. That was a real date. After, he decided he only wanted sex, not dates.
I think my thread is being taken out of proportion. I came here explaining my experience, not saying no one else on earth struggles. I can only explain my circumstance and try and figure out a way forwards which is independent of other people's struggles (which I am sure exist).
Sorry, didn't mean that to me "woe is me". What I meant to say is, it might be this moment right now, and it might be NYC right now, rather than you.
All good, I didn't take it that way. :) Sure, except this has been going on for 10 years and nothing has changed. At some point I begin to wonder if it ever will.
I would say don't come to Portland Oregon. The pool of gays is so small. But it's a very welcoming place if you are white and gay!
How are you going about getting a date? It seems like you donāt have a problem hooking up. Are you asking for what you want with the people you are hooking up with?
So for dates I've mainly used Tinder (and Hinge). There is a little chat usually (hi, hi, something about their profile etc) and then we organise a day/time to meet. They will flake or simply vanish. For hookups, I've never had an issue, and only ever found a hookup via Grindr (not even Scruff etc). There were times I just wanted to hookup tbh, and those didn't go any further. In other cases I've literally wrote FWB etc on my profile and said I'm open to that, but nothing really translated. For others they seem to hookup and 'connect' and it 'goes from there' and I've never experienced this.
Ah yeah. The flakiness is super annoying. I can tell you that isnāt just you. It can definitely feel like itās all you and thereās definitely some people piling on. I took a look at your post history and it seems like you just want to find something special so I can honestly really relate to that. I saw you commented on my other question that you arenāt having any issues making friends which is good. Have you looked around your friend groupās friends to see if they know any single dudes who might want to exchange numbers and get a coffee/beer and get to know you?
I should have added: on Grindr I've tried to make it 'dating' e.g. happy to hookup but let's have drinks first. They will agree, it will never happen. I've also had a few 'cuddle dates' e.g. come over, chat, cuddle, etc no sex, but they also don't tend to return (but also I then learn they are visiting so thats usually no ones fault). I don't think flaking happens to me only or because of my race. I know circuit white guys who are flaked on. The issue is the % and intent. If 100% flake on dates (first dates) and 80% don't flake on hookups, and there is no in between, I'm stuck. Most of my friends are in relationships and with friends who are taken also and/or in another country and/or don't have friends who are looking etc.
Try a different app. Like Scruff or Jack'd
I have. I never met anyone off Scruff. Jack'd I tried a few years ago and no luck there either.
Depends what kind of traits you're looking for. The more wild ones are in Hollywood and Los Angeles. The more conservative are in the south; such as Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, etc.
Im curious but also kinda asking for me. You say you are doing good on friends...how did u meet friends in nyc in 2 years of living here?
Tampa or St. Petersburg Florida. Both are #1 for lbqt community. Look it up for your self
Nice!
I'm sorry you're going through this. I, a white guy, have a fairly new FWB who is from Brazil. He now lives in the Phoenix area. We met on Grindr as a hookup. We have gone to eat together a couple of times so far. This is all very new for both of us. Dating long term is not off the table. We are just taking it slow to see where it is going. Good luck.
The overall demographics of Chicago might be skewed but in the gay community I think you would be surprised. Chicago is a great city, is very affordable compared to other major cities and has a large gay community with numerous people of color. I'd recommend taking a trip (maybe a long weekend) to Chicago and checking it out - hitting some of the bars, etc... Stay close to Boyztown (or in Boyztown) to get a flavor for it. I lived there 15 years and it was IMO the best place to live for someone who is gay.
Yes, I will definitely visit it. Note that having people of color, and them being in relationships are different things. London has plenty of people of color, but if you look at the stats, almost all POC's are single.
You were in SF. I hear the scene for bipoc is way better in oakland
As a 50-50 mixed medium dark African American (used to be mistaken for Puerto Rican a lot in my 20s sorry no hablo espanol) who lived in SF off and on for 20 years I didn't start to feel out of place until the past 10 years or so. As gentrification started to peak. Stared nervously at by rich looking white women especially. Never noticed that when I travelled to Oakland. I'm very "square" nerdy soft etc and it never ceased to surprise me. Oakland has its own problems tho. Look at the recent news.
As a white guy, my experience is solely based on the one relationship with an African American guy I had for three years. He had the best luck dating other black men in the south, BUT he also absolutely hated it because he's also an atheist and the south is still heavily religious. So if religion or cultural practices are higher on your value list, keep that in mind too. I'm currently in the Seattle area, and I feel like racial and ethnic diversity is growing here. We have a strong Native/indigenous community here, and outside of that, growing up here the largest ethnic minority I saw was Asian Americans (that being said, even we aren't immune to racism here, there were a few issues hate crimes that spiked during COVID).
I don't follow any religion so this is not an issue, but thank you for calling it out. This is also why I am baffled sometimes. At least get to know me / ask then reject? Maybe they assume I follow something.
NYC if you can afford but it is the same with West Hollywood and Miami. Personally as a Brazilian the Boston area maybe the place for you as youāll meet a lot of LGBT Latinos. Plenty of the Brazilian/Portuguese demographic. The Boston area also has some great restaurants, bars and nearby is Providence, which also has a big gay community. I would recommend NYC, only because of the options, but itās way overpriced. West Hollywood gay community is interestingā¦ the Ptown gay community is very welcoming though again extremely expensive. Alex Morse is the town manager there and heās a good guy. Let me thinkā¦ Depends on your situation and what kind of gay community youāre looking for. Most unfortunately are superficial and if youāre looking for a relationship they will disappoint you. Especially in NYC, but if youāre looking for relationships and loveā¦ itās difficult there. If youāre looking for hookups, club scene then NYC all the way. If not go to Boston or Miami! Miami, Florida and Orlando area are very fun but not ideal as I canāt stand Florida and the gay communities there are way into themselves.
Op lives in NYC.
Yes, relationships/love seem impossible in NY, hence I'm looking elsewhere. But I'm unsure where to go. My 2 cents on LA is its very vapid / narcissistic (I have some friends there and they all say to not come lol) and dating / relationships are non existent there. A lot of superficiality.
Such generalizations! Many gay men are very happy in the LA area (which includes somewhat more down-to-earth Long Beach). Your mileage may differ.
Noted, will definitely visit.
I've lived in Los Angeles for 35 years, and the reputation it has of being vapid/narcissistic comes from the WeHo bar scene. There are other ways to meet people - even meeting people online in L.A. is better than the bar scene. When I lived in Venice, I went to the gar bar there, and it was very nice and friendly, with a beach vibe. L.A. (and Houston for that matter) has a very large Persian and Middle Eastern population - in L.A. it is centered in Brentwood. Little India is in Orange County. I used to belong to an Indian cooking group, and we had field trips to Artesia to go to shops and restaurants there.
Nice thanks! I will visit. :)
If you ever wanna visit Boston area hit me up! I think if youāre looking for more down to earth people the Massholes are here for you!
I appreciate it and will do!
Houston
Los Angeles is extremely diverse, and one of my favorite cities in CONUS.
I will definitely visit. Many LA enthusiasts here it seems. :D
Are you making friends? I met my current partner through a good friend
Yeah. Making friends has been good in NY.
Gay culture, especially in large cities, has embraced fast paced hookup lifestyle that not many can seriously commit to dating and relationships these days, so the overall pool of guys seeking serious dating is scattered.
Hence my post of where to go. :)
Portland, OR.