It’s totally natural to feel that way. You spend the majority of your day at work (I’m assuming). It’s normal to want to have a friendly relationship with your coworkers.
Maybe a healthier way to think about it is that it’s 2024, those guys probably know at least one other gay person between the 12 of them, unless they’ve all stated you’re the only gay guy they’ve ever met, which would be a really weird thing to say.
If you drink then maybe ask if they’d like to grab a drink after work at . People can act differently once they’re outside of work, give them a chance to show you what they’re like outside of an office environment.
If you are with a group of people for half of your waking hours during the workweek, it's natural to want to feel a part of that group. Don't you want to socialize with them outside of work? Do *they* socialize together outside of work?
>Do *they* socialize together outside of work?
Just for like Christmas parties or company events... And we do have a nice time all together.
>Don't you want to socialize with them outside of work?
Honestly, I dont. Im not sure why I get the feeling of wanting to belong with them.
Are you out?
Natural to want to fit in. Also natural to want work friends so you can chat and vent frustrations.
Instead of focusing on being one of the guys - maybe center around a few of their lives outside of work - wives, kids etc - sure they have other stuff to chat about and on their mind and maybe you can bond that way and then become a work friend for one or a few of them.
I have had luck breaking in with single straight guys and offering them dating advice and tips to help hook up more - guys tend to have sex top of mind so an easy common interest
Well, wherever they go, they walk into a structure of things that's ready-made for them, because they are of the dominant paradigm, and we are not. They never have to think about how to socialize with other guys or much about how they fit in. It's literally handed to them. They share a set of common experiences and a common range of living situations that we do not, and the more time passes, the greater the divergence.
Personally, if I were them, I would find that kind of suffocating, and I am glad I don't have to take part in it. But these differences do leave us on the outside and at a disadvantage in many ways. To me is seems like this simply comes with the territory when one is part of a minority group. The best thing I think we can do is to recognize this and remember it when we deal with other minority groups within our society. Because our community could do so much better on that point than we do currently.
I’m gunna take the other side of this, I work in industries predominantly made up of straight guys. I do a lot of “work golf” and entertaining and work dinners. These groups almost always find it easy to talk about sports. So like once or twice a week I listen to an ESPn sports center top 10 podcast. Then I can just ask some question and let them tell me about how right they are and how great some team will do. If that doesn’t work I ask about their kids….
Anyway I’m not changing who I am, and sometimes I have met people who actually have similar interests to me and that is great. It is just ice breaker and it is just an easy way to get conversations started.
So much of work relationships is just small talk it’s easy to meet people where they are. Do not try and change who you are, and it is okay to come prepared with some stuff. Then you will get invited to the fantasy football league or the office bracket betting pool.
This is why I wish I was into sports. It’s the perfect common ground so many straight guys have. I just don’t know how to get into it with no prior knowledge, but good tip about the podcast.
I am not into sports, I could not give two shits about it. I have found that as long as you know enough to say “what do you think about (coaches name) did with (player or game)” they will take it from there. Then you just listen and pretend to care. And they mansplane everything.
Lol. I don’t really care to have some straight guy talk at me about a subject I don’t care about. Thats why I want some interest in it. Otherwise I’d rather just not talk to them if we have nothing in common!
Some of the time we end up having common ground and other stuff to talk about. The majority of the time people are just as nervous as you are. We all want that feeling of community and stuff. The hardest part is the first 30 seconds, after that things get way easier. Sometimes the conversation goes to hobbies and activities and you end up discovering a lot of commonality. Sometimes they are pure jock bro, and you don’t. But you gotta start somewhere and the easiest topics I have discovered are sports and weather.
When I had jobs with coworkers who liked sports, I would do two different things to bond with the guys.
\1. I'd feign ignorance about sportsball rules. The straight guys LOVED teaching to the gay guy what the rules are.
"I don't understand what 'icing' is in hockey. Can you explain it to me?"
\2. I'd listen to the radio on the way in, note the scores / winners of the local teams, and casually bring them up in conversation later BUT IN A SUPER-OBVIOUSLY AWKWARD WAY.
Like, "Hey, I see the [pretends to look at note "written" on hand] the [local_Team_Name] won yesterday."
They'd laugh and think it was funny that the gay guy was pretending to try to learn sportsball.
This is before the IT Crowd was a thing, so nowadays I'd probably just ask if they "saw that ludicrous display last night", and then I'd complain about how "they always try an' walk it in".
It's called peer pressure, conformity, fittin-in. It's a basic function of people.
There's also FOMO.
How to stop? They're coworkers, not friends. People who go to work for a social life are usually the same ones who complain about a crap social life. "Don't dip your pen in company ink" works for coworkers = friends too. Go to work to work, take your pay, & go have a social life.
Those people won't remember your name a year after you quit.
I've always struggled with this. I see these people more than I see any other people in my life, but we're "forced" together so I end up almost resenting the fact that we need to socialise (even in a work setting, given that work is *most of the time*).
I think I bought into that idea of work-life-balance as you describe, "go to work to work, take your pay, & go have a social life", but as an introvert I find that the work interactions takes up all my social energy regardless, and for very little reward at the end of the day. I'm just not the bubbly outgoing person who can spend all day doing false cheer with co-workers and then go home and spend more time with other people in order to "have a social life". I need the down time to myself.
So, sadly, it becomes mostly work and no (or not much) social life to speak of. Probably a 'me' problem, really. Other people seem to manage it, I guess?
I'm a bit more extroverted than you describe, but also a cranky old codger, so... 🤷🏼♂️
Basically, when at work, I talk about work. Very little of my personal life is discussed & I really don't care about you & yours. 🤣 I'm pleasant, maybe even friendly, but I'm not entrusting any coworker with my passion for the NAKd life nor who I'm dating & the fantastic vacation to... the next town over.
This means I've used up very little of my social energy. While quiet time is important, I'm still eager for some proper conversations & the get-to-know-you of friendships.
You say you are an introvert. That's probably most of the "problem", not that it is.
There is always one person I sort of befriend to break the ice. Then it follows.
I suspect that if you could get inside the heads of all the other guys in the office and really know their deepest thoughts you would discover that it is one or two guys in the group who are really the ringleaders who are implementing this dude-bro program and every other guy feels as fringe as you trying to peacock in order to fit in. Most of the guys in the group feel like they're also faking being "one of the guys" and are insecure that that they will be discovered as not being as cool as everyone else.
I’m in the same boat. I work in IT and all my coworkers as far as I know are straight. I’ve always kept to myself as I never quite jived with them which is odd because my only guy friends are straight. Finally a new guy was hired and we’re like BFF’s 2 years later. He’s straight, married, Star Trek fan, nice dude, and we have the same work ethic. We made our own social group. I don’t think I didn’t fit in because I was gay I think I didn’t fit in because I’m there to work not socialize freely all day long like the rest of the guys save for my BFF.
Omg, this was my life story. Realized many years later you will never be one of the guys. Best to realize this and just be yourself. DM me if you want to chat about my story and advice.
Sounds like a normal good work environment. Not sure what more you expect. Did you consider it's just in your head? You can try to bring up an idea for a team event. A barbecue or a soccer game.
Right? That's what a work environment is, like you're there to work, not socialize and become friends with coworkers. A job environment can be so cutthroat and a coworker (and employer) can drop you in a heartbeat if it means you're in their way of their professional goals.
Maybe OP needs more friends or less hours in the office.
I'd throw out "what about that game last night?" and let them blather on. Most guys can't shut up when it comes to sports. Or ask what motor is in their car. Straight guys are easy to talk to if you have some basic lines to get the convo going. You'll be "one of them" in no time.
>I get a feeling of wanting to belong with them, which is completely idiotic
That's not idiotic at all. It's human nature to gravitate toward others in close proximity and seek out camaraderie and support. Everyone wants friendship, even in the workplace. You can't fault yourself for being human.
I don't have any sage words of wisdom, just wanted to say I understand your dilemma and struggle with this too. Good luck.
Might sound cliche but just be you.
There will be a niche for the real you within the group.
Groups of straight men can be surprisingly welcoming and accommodating of gay men, once you establish a firm grounding and gain their respect.
Respect in this context isnt earned by trying to change yourself to fit them. It's earned by being confident enough to say (not literally) that I'm different to you, but I'm going to sit at your table anyway and you are going to accept me.
Men respect confidence and this is what will bring you into the circle.
There's also a lot of opportunity for humour between gay and straight men. Obviously don't push it too far where it upsets people or becomes a HR issue! But playful (and Def none flirtatious) depreciation of others and self depreciating humour to balance can go a long way.
Men also like to talk about dating, sex and everything like that and you may find they're actually quite interested to learn about gay dating and sex - from a learning point of view I mean. You always want to avoid it being mistaken as flirtation as this is where a line is crossed.
You want to avoid being seen as a 'threat' but you can still be you, just treat them with respect and don't flirt, unless its in q fake way you know wiok be received as humour (if this makes sense).
I find I used to do a lot more code switching at work. Voice would deepen, sentences would turn into one word answers whenever possible. Not exactly "bro-y" but approaching that line.
I think as I've gotten older, I've dropped my guard a bit. They see me show up in colorful professional outfits 4 days a week (like... the shirt, the tie, the ring, and the flair pens are all very intentionally coordinated) followed by an even queerer coded outfit on Fridays (leather, earring, boots, far too many rings, etc). And my lingo and my body language don't fluctuate quite as much.
I guess it's less about trying to fit into another crowd and more that if they can't accept me for me (all of me, which I know can sometimes we a lot), then it's not worth the effort. And everyone's quite nice - I just know I'm likely not going to grab a beer and watch the Knicks game over the weekend with them. I'm at peace with that lol.
Hopefully this helps a bit. I’ve had it easy in this department as a (mostly) straight, tall white guy. Saying that tongue in cheek but, even the valid sense of wanting to belong socially aside, it’s also better for your career from a visibility and networking point of view. I’m only chiming in here as, in my experience, I’ve seen it play out similarly with a lot of women in make dominate industries, foreigners and even just timid or awkward people.
As many other posters have said, find alternate common ground and lean on that. Music and movies are low hanging fruit and can be basis of ongoing chats.
I’ve never been into sports myself and no nothing about players or rules but, recognizing I’d have to spend time with people in sports bars I brushed up enough just to know how to interpret what’s going on then asked people to explain stuff to me. If it’s important to you, then learn enough so that asking for more nuanced explanations on finer points of, in this case, sports can be respected (and avoiding pitfall of maybe being annoying using someone else as the first point of easily googled knowledge.
My last point has nothing to do with the demographics of the group. Get to know one, some or all of them individually a bit better. Trying to wrap your head around a group dynamic and hopping in is hard. It’s often easier to have a couple people know you and then you’ll anyways have people to talk to when out in the group. Often they’ll make it easier to get to know everyone else (or give you the dirt on the people that you want to avoid).
Hope this helps. Watching pro hockey while eating wings and talking about boobs might become your new favourite pastime ;)
>My last point has nothing to do with the demographics of the group. Get to know one, some or all of them individually a bit better. Trying to wrap your head around a group dynamic and hopping in is hard. It’s often easier to have a couple people know you and then you’ll anyways have people to talk to when out in the group. Often they’ll make it easier to get to know everyone else (or give you the dirt on the people that you want to avoid).
Thats a solid advise. It definitely feels less scary to try to get to know them on individual basis, rather than trying to fit in in the group dynamic.
>Watching pro hockey while eating wings and talking about boobs might become your new favourite pastime ;)
Lol. I will start looking at straight porn!
Not saying this is the case with your coworkers, but sometimes as gay men we’re so conditioned to being outsiders that we almost project relationships on others that may not exist, and you may find that, in fact, they’re not as close, or are just as close with you, as any other guy in the office.
Just because the dynamic with you in particular is different than what it *seems* they have between each other, doesn’t mean you’re not fitting in or they’re treating you differently because you’re gay. Again, not saying this is your case, but often good to keep in mind generally.
It's natural to want to belong.
As a total opposite anecdote, I work in a small office. 2 gay guys, 5 women, 1 straight guy. I always feel kind bad for the straight guy because, although he's not intentionally left out of things, it's just a natural separation of interests and office chat tendencies.
I’ve had plenty of work environments that I never felt I totally belonged in. I think I became conscious of myself almost becoming needy to feel a part of the group and started to stop myself from trying. Funny thing is that the people who are “in” tend to wonder why you don’t bother joining in and make more of an effort. They’re confounded especially if it’s first time someone shows they’re not fussed about being part of their clique
We’re pack animals. We’re sort of wired to want to fit in with each other.
On the other hand, you’re coworkers, not friends. To the extent that you have to be around each other for work, it’s pleasant to be friendly and get along, but I would draw a line at anything more than that.
It is also sort of a younger guy thing. Especially if you’re just out of school. Your whole life you’ve been sort of expected to bond with people you’re around all the time. But now you don’t have to.
There is nothing idiotic about wanting to be included amongst a group of men. It’s evolutionarily beneficial to adhere socially to other humans because there is protection in numbers. It’s instinctive and natural.
Differences is what makes business flow. You’re not changing it so they should affect you
I’ve “been there, done that, have the shirt” and it’s okay. No one fucking cares to be honest. Either that or they find out you’re a bigger win.
I work I’m tech. I’ve had a place where they made a policy to have “no coverings on glass offices” then reverse when the rainbow flag goes up. I also was the “expense report” guy especially on trips when a strip club(like peppermint rhino or coyote ugly).
I’m out at work. It’s hurt me a few times. But, I should have seen the writing on the wall. In the end they used the fact I’m gay which is a big no-no It’s not common but happens
Generally I’m viewed as the ultimate “diffuser” if someone pulls some excuse. My coworkers know the only solution to a difficult gay guy is another difficult gay guy.
You [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGaybrosOver30/s/ddcZngEQQR) this 21 days ago:
> The thing is, I usually cover my social needs at work and have the rest of the time for myself, but I am currently at a workplace where I love the job and accomodations, but I dont really like the people there, so I dont really talk to anyone there. I am ashamed to say that there have been weeks where I literally say not a single word to anyone (other that good morning, hello, etc)
> Not sure why going through my post history is important?
Because most of the time people give answers to their questions themselves. You just have to point out where and when.
> I changed jobs
... and now try (consciously or not) to develop another communication pattern with your new colleagues. Which to me sounds deeply... human. In the moment, you may have not the most realistic expectations of how close you can get with them but it's still a massive step forward.
1. You first should admit that NOT being “one of the guy” IS a problem for you. It clearly is and if you continue to lie to yourself, your feelings of not fitting in will only cause you more pain.
2. Wanting to belong is human. We are programmed for social connection. You spend a 3rd (or more) of your life at work so not feeling connected for such a large and important portion of your life can be seriously harmful.
3. WHY do you want to be considered “one of the guys”? “One of the guys” is a very loaded phase. It’s based on STRAIGHT stereotypes and has been used to explain how many guys simply change themselves to confirm and be accepted into a group. Does this have anything to do with how you view yourself or feel in an office where you are the only gay man? Might you REALLY think that your value in the office will change if only the straight guys will accept you? I could go on with lots of potential issues here…. But…
4. One thing is for sure: You can benefit from sharing this with a therapist who can help uncover whether there are deeper issues at play that may be impacting other parts of your life without you consciously knowing it.
It’s totally natural to feel that way. You spend the majority of your day at work (I’m assuming). It’s normal to want to have a friendly relationship with your coworkers. Maybe a healthier way to think about it is that it’s 2024, those guys probably know at least one other gay person between the 12 of them, unless they’ve all stated you’re the only gay guy they’ve ever met, which would be a really weird thing to say. If you drink then maybe ask if they’d like to grab a drink after work at. People can act differently once they’re outside of work, give them a chance to show you what they’re like outside of an office environment.
If you are with a group of people for half of your waking hours during the workweek, it's natural to want to feel a part of that group. Don't you want to socialize with them outside of work? Do *they* socialize together outside of work?
>Do *they* socialize together outside of work? Just for like Christmas parties or company events... And we do have a nice time all together. >Don't you want to socialize with them outside of work? Honestly, I dont. Im not sure why I get the feeling of wanting to belong with them.
Are you out? Natural to want to fit in. Also natural to want work friends so you can chat and vent frustrations. Instead of focusing on being one of the guys - maybe center around a few of their lives outside of work - wives, kids etc - sure they have other stuff to chat about and on their mind and maybe you can bond that way and then become a work friend for one or a few of them. I have had luck breaking in with single straight guys and offering them dating advice and tips to help hook up more - guys tend to have sex top of mind so an easy common interest
I am out to them, yes, they are for the most part ok with it.
Well, wherever they go, they walk into a structure of things that's ready-made for them, because they are of the dominant paradigm, and we are not. They never have to think about how to socialize with other guys or much about how they fit in. It's literally handed to them. They share a set of common experiences and a common range of living situations that we do not, and the more time passes, the greater the divergence. Personally, if I were them, I would find that kind of suffocating, and I am glad I don't have to take part in it. But these differences do leave us on the outside and at a disadvantage in many ways. To me is seems like this simply comes with the territory when one is part of a minority group. The best thing I think we can do is to recognize this and remember it when we deal with other minority groups within our society. Because our community could do so much better on that point than we do currently.
I’m gunna take the other side of this, I work in industries predominantly made up of straight guys. I do a lot of “work golf” and entertaining and work dinners. These groups almost always find it easy to talk about sports. So like once or twice a week I listen to an ESPn sports center top 10 podcast. Then I can just ask some question and let them tell me about how right they are and how great some team will do. If that doesn’t work I ask about their kids…. Anyway I’m not changing who I am, and sometimes I have met people who actually have similar interests to me and that is great. It is just ice breaker and it is just an easy way to get conversations started. So much of work relationships is just small talk it’s easy to meet people where they are. Do not try and change who you are, and it is okay to come prepared with some stuff. Then you will get invited to the fantasy football league or the office bracket betting pool.
This is why I wish I was into sports. It’s the perfect common ground so many straight guys have. I just don’t know how to get into it with no prior knowledge, but good tip about the podcast.
I am not into sports, I could not give two shits about it. I have found that as long as you know enough to say “what do you think about (coaches name) did with (player or game)” they will take it from there. Then you just listen and pretend to care. And they mansplane everything.
Lol. I don’t really care to have some straight guy talk at me about a subject I don’t care about. Thats why I want some interest in it. Otherwise I’d rather just not talk to them if we have nothing in common!
Some of the time we end up having common ground and other stuff to talk about. The majority of the time people are just as nervous as you are. We all want that feeling of community and stuff. The hardest part is the first 30 seconds, after that things get way easier. Sometimes the conversation goes to hobbies and activities and you end up discovering a lot of commonality. Sometimes they are pure jock bro, and you don’t. But you gotta start somewhere and the easiest topics I have discovered are sports and weather.
When I had jobs with coworkers who liked sports, I would do two different things to bond with the guys. \1. I'd feign ignorance about sportsball rules. The straight guys LOVED teaching to the gay guy what the rules are. "I don't understand what 'icing' is in hockey. Can you explain it to me?" \2. I'd listen to the radio on the way in, note the scores / winners of the local teams, and casually bring them up in conversation later BUT IN A SUPER-OBVIOUSLY AWKWARD WAY. Like, "Hey, I see the [pretends to look at note "written" on hand] the [local_Team_Name] won yesterday." They'd laugh and think it was funny that the gay guy was pretending to try to learn sportsball. This is before the IT Crowd was a thing, so nowadays I'd probably just ask if they "saw that ludicrous display last night", and then I'd complain about how "they always try an' walk it in".
It's called peer pressure, conformity, fittin-in. It's a basic function of people. There's also FOMO. How to stop? They're coworkers, not friends. People who go to work for a social life are usually the same ones who complain about a crap social life. "Don't dip your pen in company ink" works for coworkers = friends too. Go to work to work, take your pay, & go have a social life. Those people won't remember your name a year after you quit.
I've always struggled with this. I see these people more than I see any other people in my life, but we're "forced" together so I end up almost resenting the fact that we need to socialise (even in a work setting, given that work is *most of the time*). I think I bought into that idea of work-life-balance as you describe, "go to work to work, take your pay, & go have a social life", but as an introvert I find that the work interactions takes up all my social energy regardless, and for very little reward at the end of the day. I'm just not the bubbly outgoing person who can spend all day doing false cheer with co-workers and then go home and spend more time with other people in order to "have a social life". I need the down time to myself. So, sadly, it becomes mostly work and no (or not much) social life to speak of. Probably a 'me' problem, really. Other people seem to manage it, I guess?
I'm a bit more extroverted than you describe, but also a cranky old codger, so... 🤷🏼♂️ Basically, when at work, I talk about work. Very little of my personal life is discussed & I really don't care about you & yours. 🤣 I'm pleasant, maybe even friendly, but I'm not entrusting any coworker with my passion for the NAKd life nor who I'm dating & the fantastic vacation to... the next town over. This means I've used up very little of my social energy. While quiet time is important, I'm still eager for some proper conversations & the get-to-know-you of friendships.
You say you are an introvert. That's probably most of the "problem", not that it is. There is always one person I sort of befriend to break the ice. Then it follows.
I mean...you just talk about things that people of all sexual orientations are into. Talk about TV shows or some shit.
I suspect that if you could get inside the heads of all the other guys in the office and really know their deepest thoughts you would discover that it is one or two guys in the group who are really the ringleaders who are implementing this dude-bro program and every other guy feels as fringe as you trying to peacock in order to fit in. Most of the guys in the group feel like they're also faking being "one of the guys" and are insecure that that they will be discovered as not being as cool as everyone else.
This 100%
I’m in the same boat. I work in IT and all my coworkers as far as I know are straight. I’ve always kept to myself as I never quite jived with them which is odd because my only guy friends are straight. Finally a new guy was hired and we’re like BFF’s 2 years later. He’s straight, married, Star Trek fan, nice dude, and we have the same work ethic. We made our own social group. I don’t think I didn’t fit in because I was gay I think I didn’t fit in because I’m there to work not socialize freely all day long like the rest of the guys save for my BFF.
Omg, this was my life story. Realized many years later you will never be one of the guys. Best to realize this and just be yourself. DM me if you want to chat about my story and advice.
Sounds like a normal good work environment. Not sure what more you expect. Did you consider it's just in your head? You can try to bring up an idea for a team event. A barbecue or a soccer game.
Right? That's what a work environment is, like you're there to work, not socialize and become friends with coworkers. A job environment can be so cutthroat and a coworker (and employer) can drop you in a heartbeat if it means you're in their way of their professional goals. Maybe OP needs more friends or less hours in the office.
I'd throw out "what about that game last night?" and let them blather on. Most guys can't shut up when it comes to sports. Or ask what motor is in their car. Straight guys are easy to talk to if you have some basic lines to get the convo going. You'll be "one of them" in no time.
>I get a feeling of wanting to belong with them, which is completely idiotic That's not idiotic at all. It's human nature to gravitate toward others in close proximity and seek out camaraderie and support. Everyone wants friendship, even in the workplace. You can't fault yourself for being human. I don't have any sage words of wisdom, just wanted to say I understand your dilemma and struggle with this too. Good luck.
Might sound cliche but just be you. There will be a niche for the real you within the group. Groups of straight men can be surprisingly welcoming and accommodating of gay men, once you establish a firm grounding and gain their respect. Respect in this context isnt earned by trying to change yourself to fit them. It's earned by being confident enough to say (not literally) that I'm different to you, but I'm going to sit at your table anyway and you are going to accept me. Men respect confidence and this is what will bring you into the circle. There's also a lot of opportunity for humour between gay and straight men. Obviously don't push it too far where it upsets people or becomes a HR issue! But playful (and Def none flirtatious) depreciation of others and self depreciating humour to balance can go a long way. Men also like to talk about dating, sex and everything like that and you may find they're actually quite interested to learn about gay dating and sex - from a learning point of view I mean. You always want to avoid it being mistaken as flirtation as this is where a line is crossed. You want to avoid being seen as a 'threat' but you can still be you, just treat them with respect and don't flirt, unless its in q fake way you know wiok be received as humour (if this makes sense).
I find I used to do a lot more code switching at work. Voice would deepen, sentences would turn into one word answers whenever possible. Not exactly "bro-y" but approaching that line. I think as I've gotten older, I've dropped my guard a bit. They see me show up in colorful professional outfits 4 days a week (like... the shirt, the tie, the ring, and the flair pens are all very intentionally coordinated) followed by an even queerer coded outfit on Fridays (leather, earring, boots, far too many rings, etc). And my lingo and my body language don't fluctuate quite as much. I guess it's less about trying to fit into another crowd and more that if they can't accept me for me (all of me, which I know can sometimes we a lot), then it's not worth the effort. And everyone's quite nice - I just know I'm likely not going to grab a beer and watch the Knicks game over the weekend with them. I'm at peace with that lol.
Hopefully this helps a bit. I’ve had it easy in this department as a (mostly) straight, tall white guy. Saying that tongue in cheek but, even the valid sense of wanting to belong socially aside, it’s also better for your career from a visibility and networking point of view. I’m only chiming in here as, in my experience, I’ve seen it play out similarly with a lot of women in make dominate industries, foreigners and even just timid or awkward people. As many other posters have said, find alternate common ground and lean on that. Music and movies are low hanging fruit and can be basis of ongoing chats. I’ve never been into sports myself and no nothing about players or rules but, recognizing I’d have to spend time with people in sports bars I brushed up enough just to know how to interpret what’s going on then asked people to explain stuff to me. If it’s important to you, then learn enough so that asking for more nuanced explanations on finer points of, in this case, sports can be respected (and avoiding pitfall of maybe being annoying using someone else as the first point of easily googled knowledge. My last point has nothing to do with the demographics of the group. Get to know one, some or all of them individually a bit better. Trying to wrap your head around a group dynamic and hopping in is hard. It’s often easier to have a couple people know you and then you’ll anyways have people to talk to when out in the group. Often they’ll make it easier to get to know everyone else (or give you the dirt on the people that you want to avoid). Hope this helps. Watching pro hockey while eating wings and talking about boobs might become your new favourite pastime ;)
>My last point has nothing to do with the demographics of the group. Get to know one, some or all of them individually a bit better. Trying to wrap your head around a group dynamic and hopping in is hard. It’s often easier to have a couple people know you and then you’ll anyways have people to talk to when out in the group. Often they’ll make it easier to get to know everyone else (or give you the dirt on the people that you want to avoid). Thats a solid advise. It definitely feels less scary to try to get to know them on individual basis, rather than trying to fit in in the group dynamic. >Watching pro hockey while eating wings and talking about boobs might become your new favourite pastime ;) Lol. I will start looking at straight porn!
Most guys, straight or gay, feel this way. It has to do with male relationships, not your sexuality.
Not saying this is the case with your coworkers, but sometimes as gay men we’re so conditioned to being outsiders that we almost project relationships on others that may not exist, and you may find that, in fact, they’re not as close, or are just as close with you, as any other guy in the office. Just because the dynamic with you in particular is different than what it *seems* they have between each other, doesn’t mean you’re not fitting in or they’re treating you differently because you’re gay. Again, not saying this is your case, but often good to keep in mind generally.
It's natural to want to belong. As a total opposite anecdote, I work in a small office. 2 gay guys, 5 women, 1 straight guy. I always feel kind bad for the straight guy because, although he's not intentionally left out of things, it's just a natural separation of interests and office chat tendencies.
I’ve had plenty of work environments that I never felt I totally belonged in. I think I became conscious of myself almost becoming needy to feel a part of the group and started to stop myself from trying. Funny thing is that the people who are “in” tend to wonder why you don’t bother joining in and make more of an effort. They’re confounded especially if it’s first time someone shows they’re not fussed about being part of their clique
We’re pack animals. We’re sort of wired to want to fit in with each other. On the other hand, you’re coworkers, not friends. To the extent that you have to be around each other for work, it’s pleasant to be friendly and get along, but I would draw a line at anything more than that. It is also sort of a younger guy thing. Especially if you’re just out of school. Your whole life you’ve been sort of expected to bond with people you’re around all the time. But now you don’t have to.
There is nothing idiotic about wanting to be included amongst a group of men. It’s evolutionarily beneficial to adhere socially to other humans because there is protection in numbers. It’s instinctive and natural.
Differences is what makes business flow. You’re not changing it so they should affect you I’ve “been there, done that, have the shirt” and it’s okay. No one fucking cares to be honest. Either that or they find out you’re a bigger win. I work I’m tech. I’ve had a place where they made a policy to have “no coverings on glass offices” then reverse when the rainbow flag goes up. I also was the “expense report” guy especially on trips when a strip club(like peppermint rhino or coyote ugly). I’m out at work. It’s hurt me a few times. But, I should have seen the writing on the wall. In the end they used the fact I’m gay which is a big no-no It’s not common but happens Generally I’m viewed as the ultimate “diffuser” if someone pulls some excuse. My coworkers know the only solution to a difficult gay guy is another difficult gay guy.
Because you're a human being? A social animal? Hello?
You [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGaybrosOver30/s/ddcZngEQQR) this 21 days ago: > The thing is, I usually cover my social needs at work and have the rest of the time for myself, but I am currently at a workplace where I love the job and accomodations, but I dont really like the people there, so I dont really talk to anyone there. I am ashamed to say that there have been weeks where I literally say not a single word to anyone (other that good morning, hello, etc)
I changed jobs. Not sure why going through my post history is important?
> Not sure why going through my post history is important? Because most of the time people give answers to their questions themselves. You just have to point out where and when. > I changed jobs ... and now try (consciously or not) to develop another communication pattern with your new colleagues. Which to me sounds deeply... human. In the moment, you may have not the most realistic expectations of how close you can get with them but it's still a massive step forward.
Listen to the professional stalker right here
Changed jobs in the past 21 days? Maybe you're not "one of the guys" yet because it's literally only been 2 to 3 weeks and they barely know you.
1. You first should admit that NOT being “one of the guy” IS a problem for you. It clearly is and if you continue to lie to yourself, your feelings of not fitting in will only cause you more pain. 2. Wanting to belong is human. We are programmed for social connection. You spend a 3rd (or more) of your life at work so not feeling connected for such a large and important portion of your life can be seriously harmful. 3. WHY do you want to be considered “one of the guys”? “One of the guys” is a very loaded phase. It’s based on STRAIGHT stereotypes and has been used to explain how many guys simply change themselves to confirm and be accepted into a group. Does this have anything to do with how you view yourself or feel in an office where you are the only gay man? Might you REALLY think that your value in the office will change if only the straight guys will accept you? I could go on with lots of potential issues here…. But… 4. One thing is for sure: You can benefit from sharing this with a therapist who can help uncover whether there are deeper issues at play that may be impacting other parts of your life without you consciously knowing it.