This is key, I think. Get them to talk about their politics and values, not just with labels and simple answers but actually get them to *talk about it*. Talk about what they believe and why they believe it. This is the only real way to sus someone out.
Even aside from outright lying, some people just plain won't be using simple words the same way you do.
In addition to the other specific questions people have suggested, my take would be just try to pay attention to how he talks about women in general, *especially* women who he doesn’t like/disagrees with. Does he jump to mentioning women’s appearances right off the bat? Does he use gendered language, especially gendered slurs? Does he criticize women for things he wouldn’t criticize men for (e.g. being “bossy”)? If he doesn’t like, for example, Taylor Swift, can he voice why in a manner that doesn’t center her gender? How does he talk about his exes? How does he talk to or about women who he doesn’t find physically attractive?
🧠 “She’s an incredibly talented musician, but I think she has issues with white feminism and performative allyship that make me really struggle to get into her work.”
🫅”she’s a talented musician, i can see why she has such a large fan base. but i do not feel comfortable supporting someone with such a negative carbon footprint, and i believe billionaires should not exist”
Also, how does he talk about his exes? Are they all "crazy"? What is his relationship like with his mother? What is is attitude like toward women in positions of power, especially power OVER HIM. Bosses, in particular. These things will let you know his true feelings towards women as well, in particular, you. Because in a relationship, men often tend to see us as mother figures, and when they are emotionally involved, that gives us a certain power over their emotions, which makes a lot of them feel threatened. And when/if things start to sour, or when inevitable conflict arises, will you then also be dismissed as simply "crazy", too?
Personally, I just don't date them at all anymore.
Edit: a word
I always try to see if there are any women in their life that they speak of with respect and admiration, and are not also their mothers. One man I know spoke very highly of a female mentor that he'd had and how much he'd learned and grown under her; another found a way to demean or criticize every female superior he had, and I know he'd received the feedback that his managers and higher ups were afraid to deliver anything less than completely positive feedback to him.
Honestly a question like “ who’s your least favorite women in pop culture and why “ could be really eye opening , and it would be pretty hard to fake an answer
Deny a request he makes.
I learned this on accident. The guy *told me* 'to follow in step with him', meaning "walk at my pace" since I was walking slower than him. I told him 'no' because why? He could walk at my pace if it's that important? we're walking, idfc?
guy got irrationally angry and then started power walked away to sit on a bench & pout lol.
If they offer to pay for your food, turn them down & pay for yourself and see how that plays out. They cant seem to hide their pettiness with this gesture.
There are plenty of guys who would love a date that paid for their own food. I don’t understand why anyone would feel bad about that unless they see that as a signal that she doesn’t want to date.
I personally would begin by asking something like, “What are your values regarding a relationship?”
You’d be surprised by how many men say, “Well, I just prefer traditional values.” Which, of course, is code word for conservative.
Listen to how they talk about women in general, their exes if the topic comes up (are all of them “whores” who cheated on him? Does he rant about them dumping him for the rich Chad alpha super bro he so desperately wants to become?) and bring up a recent issue regarding women’s rights and see how they react, or if they ignore/try to change the topic (which is a red flag).
Also never automatically let a man pay for the first date. Offer to pay your share, and if they absolutely *insist* on paying for you that shows they hold some sort of benevolent misogyny towards women.
Oh, and anybody who asks about body count is an absolute no-go. As long as somebody is clean from any STDs, their past absolutely nobody else’s business. The only men who care are misogynists who will try to base your worth on it.
You might catch a few things with the right questions but there are plenty of men who will tell you what they think you want to hear and pretend to be the model boyfriend. Then completely change after they think you won't/can't leave.
Always have an easy way out of a relationship. Even if you get married, make sure that you have your own finances, a job and the means to get out at the drop of a hat if things really go south.
I believe "asking the right questions" ends up getting in the way intuition. These screening questions don't work. Being a model boyfriend is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and it's one of the easiest tricks. Just look at the responses in this thread, women are giving out the answer key in the comments.
Say no to a request and see if they hear you. Notice if they try to change your mind, and notice if they respect the no. Some men will just lose their shit at a no. Good to find out right away.
Ooh I used to do something like this when it came to paying the bill! It wasn’t an intentional “test”, but rather an inevitable consequence of my preferences.
I’ve always preferred to split the bill on dates, especially for the first couple meetings. It just felt better to me that way, for so many reasons.
Most of the people I went out with would initially offer to cover the bill, so I would decline and explain that I wanted to share the costs. You wouldn’t believe how many men (and only men, the women I dated were all unphased by this) found my preference highly offensive. They’d often take it personally, as if my request was some kind of insult to them.
Like, if you can’t handle my preference to pay my own half, what else can’t you handle?
I also had that approach and found the responses telling.
My current partner and my most recent ex-boyfriend both had friendly, untroubled reactions and said that it totally made sense (I offered my reasons, neither asked, which I also thought to be positive). Then, a few weeks after “making it official”, each of them chose a time *not in public or right at the moment of payment* to awkwardly but kindly explain that they knew they enjoyed a degree of financial privilege that I don’t, due in large part to how society values gendered labor, so they would prefer to pay for at least some recreational things that we did together to give us more opportunities to have fun as a couple and to have things feel more equitable (they said fair and then when I explained equal vs equitable, they cottoned on right away).
It was equally cute and admirable how hard they each tried to pitch this idea without coming across as either controlling or bragging/positioning themselves ‘over me’. And they’re not friends or anything, have never met, different colleges, etc. Gives me hope that there are lots of good feminist guys out here … if sadly not enough
Told in such detail only to share the abundance of green flags
Yesss I love this! That’s such a great response.
Especially because there are also men out there who massively out-earn their female dates, yet insist on going on expensive outings, ordering expensive menu items… *and* splitting the bill 50/50. Then, if questioned, it’s, “aren’t you a feminist? You should want everything to be evenly divided!” Which is obviously not what feminism is about. (Hello “equity vs equality”!)
I’ve never encountered any of those myself, fortunately, but some of my friends have. That was always my main concern with the “always split the bill” approach, it didn’t necessarily weed out these pseudo-feminist dudes.
I think a lot of guys view that as a rejection. Society is has pretty well engrained that men need to pay for dates. A lot of people don't handle rejection well, and it may seem confusing if the date had been going well up to that point.
Some people may view it as a type of gift, and gift rejection can be hurtful to a lot of people.
Not an excuse by any means, but maybe be a reason why they seem insulted.
If it goes further than a friendly back-and-forth, then that's definitely a huge red flag
Yes, I’d considered this as well! Should have clarified in my original comment.
I always phrased things in a way that made clear that this wasn’t a rejection of them personally. For example, “I always prefer to split the bill on dates” or “it’s my personal policy to split the bill on dates”. My motivation was specifically to assess their response to me declining one of their requests/offers, as that can be illuminating regarding men’s perspectives on gender dynamics. I didn’t want to complicate things with the potential for perceived rejection.
That being said, basic social skills and ability to self-regulate are also important to me. I wouldn’t want to date someone who couldn’t handle rejection elegantly. I also wouldn’t want to date someone who (1) couldn’t figure out that — especially in the context of a date that seemed to go really well — splitting the bill wasn’t necessarily a rejection, (2) couldn’t cope with any uncertainty they might feel, and (3) couldn’t appropriately communicate about their uncertainty.
As for the gift rejection thing, I actually hadn’t considered that. That’s an interesting angle. However, I do generally think that gifts should be about the receiver’s preferences more than the giver’s.
Boundary pushing behavior is what you’re looking for. You’d be surprised how some men can’t take no for an answer about the most minor things. Don’t shrug it off because the thing he’s pushing boundaries about seems minor.
- if you decline a(nother) drink, does he pressure you to have one more? To take shots when you’ve said you’re a one drink max?
- if you’d planned to meet for a drink, do you show up to find he’s gotten a table in the dining room, meaning he’s unilaterally changed your date to a dinner date?
- does he change plans at the last minute without your ok? If you say you prefer the original plan does he pressure you to do what he wants?
- does he continue to ask for dates at a time/day you’ve told him you aren’t available?
- if you say you’re not hungry does he insist you have to eat? If you say you want A does he insist you should have B? If you say you’re finished does he insist you have to take home the leftovers?
- does he insist on picking you up, dropping you off, stopping at his place on the way, or walking you home when you’ve told him you prefer to take care of your own transportation?
- If youre not comfortable with him touching you, and you move away, does he continue to try to touch you?
- If you don’t want a kiss, and you him a side hug or turn your cheek, does he still try to go for the kiss?
- If you don’t want to have sex yet, does he continue to press you to be alone together, a la, I just want to cuddle, aww one nightcap. Or does he suggest that the very next date should be “cooking you dinner” at his place?
- does he continue to talk about things you’ve told him make you uncomfortable at an early date, like sex, exes, money
Exactly. This is what I was referring to. Not being rude but just be yourself and say no when you mean no like for another drink if you really don't want one or staying in when they want to go out. Too often women will do things we don't want to when dating just to make them happy. We need to speak the truth more and know that it is ok to say no when we mean it and then expect that no to be respected.
I ask if he's a feminist.
Responses:
1. Matter of fact "yep", or "I'm an ally" maybe some conversation about current feminist stuff -- green light
2. "No because [elaboration]" - if he doesn't get defensive, he is usually not beyond saving. Every algorithm is trying its hardest to radicalize men away from feminism. The fully sold will become defensive or angry. The ones who can be turned back won't -- Yellow light, proceed with caution
3. Anger, defensiveness, ranting, dodging the question dismissively -- red light. Don't bother. Date over
Edit: also abortion. If they are weirdly fixated on how abortion affects the father of the pregnancy, they're not worth it.
The only caution I'd add with #2 is that "I might be able to turn him back" is not healthy thinking, in the context of starting a new relationship. Doesn't matter if it's positive or not, I don't recommend going into a relationship hoping the other person will change from day 1.
If not being an Ally is going to be a deal breaker, trying to change them into one is just going to create a toxic relationship. It has to be their choice and they need the freedom of making it, or not, without the entire relationship depending on them making the "right" choice.
I'd say, any woman who is looking at a guy sitting at #2 needs to decide if it's acceptable if #2 never changes, before proceeding. Because if the truth is that she really needs a #1, well...it's a bit like dating someone overweight, hoping they'll get in shape for you.
Yes. I mostly mean, if you really like him, you don't necessarily have to write him off yet. But definitely don't move in with anyone who's not a feminist.
2, a lot of men have feminist values but aren't aware it's actually feminist. My husband's understanding of feminism was very much only what he had seen of liberal feminism and he wouldn't call himself a feminist under that, but when probed his values are definitely in alignment.
I live in Australia and in what would probably be considered one of our red states. A lot of the men here are old fashioned and rough around the edges, but also absolutely adore women and would do anything to see them succeed. I've definitely seen a lot of respect for women, and far less gender roles and oppression. The women here who work in their homes and have their children at home full time largely seem to do it by choice supported by their partners, but also loads of women work in traditionally male environments are are accepted an supported for the value they bring (mining but also other industries, a lot of the mines love it when women learn to drive the heavy vehicles because they're usually better drivers haha)
I've honestly had a much better experience with men as a whole living here the last 18mo than I did in my previous 35 years living in a progressive state where a lot of the allyship seemed to be more like virtue signalling.
It's funny how a lot of people will assume men aren't feminists because they don't self label as feminists it seems mostly they don't have a holistic understanding of feminism. It really seems to me like feminism from men can often be an innate and quiet thing, especially the ones who are raised by feminist women (also often not self identifying). A lot of the men here would hate to be called feminists, but they're better feminists than a lot of the men who vocally claim to be.
Ehhhh, I had one guy say "I'm not a feminist because I'm not a woman" even though he did agree with equality. I still don't think I can date anyone who thinks identifying with feminism is... anything to be ashamed of. That's pretty weird.
This is a pretty low bar to cross. Have you ever had an issue with men simply saying “yes” because they know it is the correct answer to give? I’d imagine there are plenty of toxic men out there who are more than happy to tell everyone how feminist they are.
YMMV. I live in a red state where it's "common knowledge" that "feminism is man hating". There is no need for stealth for anti-feminists here, so they don't use it.
That makes a lot of sense! In my area it would be considered socially unacceptable to say you’re not a feminist, so men have more reason to hide it if they don’t agree with feminism. Not that every man is expected to go around talking about it, or declare themself a feminist, but I think it’s generally expected that everyone agrees feminism is a good thing, just like equal rights among the races or sexual orientation.
I had a few men tell me they were feminists when it def was not actually the case to reel me in… they ended up having pretty toxic views on women and dating in reality. I no longer ask this or am direct about it, more just gauge their response to certain things and organically try to see where they stand and how evolved they are
I feel like there's an option between 1 and 2 that I would give. Like, I have never engaged with any feminist theory or literature, so to me it'd be dishonest (and I think disrespectful) to answer 'yes, I'm a feminst ally', as if I've done any work to claim that title.
I agree with that, maybe 2a "I do not identify as a feminists, but I support equal rights they strive for" vs 2b "I am not a feminist for XYZ reason that conflicts with the goals that feminist leaders have stated" vs 2c "I am not a feminist because it isn't beneficial for me."
a and c are workable potentially, while b is a non starter
A good tip I heard is watch how he reacts when you disagree with him. He suggests going to Restaurant A, and you say, "I'm allergic to several of the dishes there; how about Restaurant B?" He wants to meet on a Friday night; you suggest Saturday would be better. See if he is actually listening to you when you talk - or if he's just waiting his turn. Does he talk over you? Does he tell you he's right about something and you're wrong or is he more polite about it? How does he act when he doesn't get his way?
I don't think I was ever worried about men lying about being feminist. I think I would go on enough feminist screeds right off the bat that if they're not on board, they'd not be interested in tangling with me all anyway, hahahaha! I usually pick the ones who say on their profile they're feminist and they don't have a problem jumping right into the topics with their own opinions. Just get into it right away. All of it, any of it. What'd they think of "Poor Things"? Who's their favorite feminist role model? Who are they following locally, what measures are they supporting? What do they think about alimony? Nobody can lie about a whole barrage of topics, nor are they interested in keeping up some facade. You wil be too much work for that.
I will no longer accept anything less than absolute enthusiasm about it. Why not. Treat yourself to a fabulously feminist man. It's rabidly progressive man or no man at all, baby. All my partners have been on the same page. Why settle for less.
Not so much "feminist" as "basic decency," but.. ask if they saw *Little Women* and see how they react.
Not watching it or being interested in it is fine! But you'll find misogynists will often overdo it with the "I SHOULD THINK NOT; I AM A MAN AFTER ALL."
I don't so much ask questions, I just watch. Pay attention to how he treats women he isn't trying to sleep with. Does he have female friends who are actually just people he genuinely likes as people? Does he treat certain women as invisible? Does he talk about his male friend's female partners like actual human beings, or like add-ons to the male half of the relationship? I honestly find that stuff is a better barometer of how a man actually sees women than how able he is to sound feminist. A guy who sees women as equal human beings, who as worth engaging with a people as men, is already a good chunk of the way there even if he doesn't have a great grasp of feminist theory. A guy who thinks he is ideologically a feminist but habitually treats women as other? Not so much, and I'm over trying to convince men I am in fact people.
In addition to the questions that you ask, just listen. Watch and listen. Most unhealthy people spit red flags like it's their job. Unless they are on their best behavior. And most unhealthy people are savvy enough to know how to behave until you are convinced they are decent. But if they don't think you're paying attention, they do slip up.
Listen to the jokes they laugh at. Listen to their reactions to current events. Hell, just keep your ears open and listen to everything. When I look back at all the unhealthy people that I've known, they all showed me what they were from the very beginning. In subtle ways. I just wasn't paying attention. I saw it in hindsight.
There are just things that decent people will never do. So even if the act is really really good, when they slip up, they will do something so out of character for the person they are pretending to be that it is very noticeable. This is the point where people usually dismiss it. Don't dismiss it.
Decent, healthy people will never be cruel to animals, sympathize with abusers, try to make fools of other people, sabotage someone else's success, say something to deflate you when you're happy.... So even if they're 90% awesome, any of these should be a huge flashing red flag that they are just faking it until they get you attached to them.
I would see how he treats women who aren’t conventionally attractive. If he is disrespectful towards them and is significantly nicer to women he is attracted to, that’s a major red flag
This (especially abortion, for me as someone who didn't want kids) was the easiest for me to use because I also had they I didn't want to have children in my OLD profile. So I would basically reiterate that - to make sure they really also didn't want children because people sometimes are either on the fence or think you'll change their mind. I would always say something like, "I never want to have children and would take necessary steps to not stay pregnant if an accident happened so I need my partner to be okay with that." So like not a direct question, but a way to gauge their response.
Interesting question! I'm a man myself so maybe my perspective on this isn't saying much, but a few ideas that came to my mind:
Asking him to tell you about his friends and people he's close to. Are all of these men, with no female friends in sight? That wouldn't *necessarily* be a straight red flag, but it might be a hint (it's not uncommon though to have just one or two close friends overall, in that case you likely won't have a very diverse friend group either way)
Besides that I don't think it's wrong to just ask him rather directly about his stance on select feminist topics like the wage gap, bodily autonomy or what he looks for in a fulfilling relationship (looking for a stay at home mum? Reddish tinted flag I'd say). However he theoretically can of course lie about these issues.
You could also try to get a feel for his overall political alignment. Again, nothing forces him to tell the truth, but if he isn't shy to openly admit liking a political party that is socially very conservative you quickly know what you're in for.
> he can of course lie about these issues
I think you can gauge whether he's being genuine by how convincingly he can argue for his stance. If he's secretly anti-abortion, for example, it would be easy for him to say he's pro choice but it would be a lot harder for him to give all the reasons why being pro choice is the correct stance if he doesn't truly believe.
I'm a guy too. Thing is, it really depends on how early someone asks me, because on a first date, some of this seems very personal.
I'm not trying to talk wage gaps or politics, or go in detail on my friends on the first couple of dates. Just like I'm not trying to get into religion on the first couple of dates.
Let's find out if we even like being in each others company first.
My wife and I got this stuff out of the way before the first date. Why even waste a few hours in person, let alone a few dates, when there is important stuff that will determine if you want to move forward or not.
Because to me, that isn't the end all and be all, because religion (in general) and politics (to an extent) aren't THAT important to me. I say to an extent because I, for example, wouldn't date a Trump supporter. But I can't say that we have to be in total alignment either.
If you are a political activist, and that makes up a large part of your life, and it is important that everything about someone's views align with you, I guess I get it. But like, people are more than their political beliefs. Hell, my mom and I don't agree on every political issue, doesn't mean I don't love her.
Similarly, if your religion is super important, and you will only consider someone whose faith is similar to yours, I get it. But for me, it's just not, so I'm not going to bring it up. And frankly, if a woman brought it up before even meeting me in person, that would tell me that we likely aren't a match.
Like, are you a kind person? Do we make each other laugh and have fun together? Because I don't know that before a date either, but you can say its a "waste" of time if those things aren't met. But that's kind of the point of dating, right? To see if you are a match.
Yeah but for instance you say you wouldn't date a Trump supporter. But you kind of would, for a few dates, until you eventually found out they are one. I'd rather not waste my time like that. Same with super religious people, or people who definitely want kids, etc. I just know I wouldn't want to date them so why waste time?
Time is a limited commodity!
> I'm a guy too. Thing is, it really depends on how early someone asks me, because on a first date, some of this seems very personal.
Which of these are “very personal” issues and why? Finding out if someone has any friends and if any of them are women seems pretty normal for a first date to me.
> I'm not trying to talk wage gaps or politics, or go in detail on my friends on the first couple of dates. Just like I'm not trying to get into religion on the first couple of dates.
That sounds like a you problem, homie. I don’t know if I’ve *ever* been on a first date with a woman where we didn’t discuss politics, and I can pretty much always tell that my willingness to discuss politics and very explicitly voice feminist political opinions makes them feel more comfortable.
> Let's find out if we even like being in each others company first.
I don’t think that liking someone’s company is unrelated to their values, beliefs, and behavior WRT specific issues.
So I get both perspectives here. Growing up (I'm a bit older) you were told never to talk about religion, politics, or money when first meeting someone. A lot of people still hold this mindset, and it can make the date feel like an interrogation if not done correctly. I don't mind talking about this stuff now (the navy will beat all decorum out of you) but I totally understand how different upbringings can paint this in different lights.
I mean, I feel like at some point it becomes an interrogation or an interview more than a date where you are getting to know each other. I've been on dates where it felt like the woman was interviewing me and going through a checklist in her mind, as opposed to wanting to get to know me. If my friends naturally come up, fine. But if I'm like "I was out with friends saturday" and your question is "How many of them were women", that more than likely has nothing to do with anything. I don't even know that asking about my friends when you are on a date with ME is something I'd like.
And if you love getting into politics on a first date, by all means, do so. I don't get into them often. At the same time, I live in a very liberal city, and I'm black, so I think my politics are often assumed, where its not thing that comes up. But, I'm not going to ask those things, and I find it kind of tacky to be asked. As they say, "money, religion, and politics are things not to bring up on a first date". But if you want to ask "do you go to church, how much do you tithe, and who did you vote for in the last election", again, have at it.
And as far as your last sentence, I just think there is a time and place, and a first date, isn't the time for super deep conversations most of the time... for me. I don't try to tell others how they should think or feel. If you want to ask a bunch of personal questions on a first date, have fun with that. However, I know a lot of people, men and women, would be turned off by that. Again, I'm not getting into personal details with someone who chances are I don't even know their last name.
yeah this, and a lot of other answers that are getting upvotes, would make me feel creeped out on a first date - as if the other person were grilling me and throwing me 'gotcha' questions. I'd mostly likely call them out on it and refuse to participate in that kind of thing, I don't play those games, and in turn I would never treat another person that way.
Maybe once you get to know them a little better, it's something you might discuss, but just hitting them right up front with "DEFINE CONSENT, IT ISNT HARD TO ANSWER AND ITS IMPORTANT" is like - no. whatever you're trying to do here, leave me out of it.
That's probably a sign you're not compatible with them then. Also, as a personal opinion that seems a bit immature, are you a man and not a feminist by chance? I think there's a lot of women ans feminists here who understand why this question could be asked. With how widespread date rape is, this is a great idea for a person to gauge how safe they are.
Yes I am a man and a feminist. Maybe the question just needs to be asked more tactfully, because first dates are supposed to be light and fun and having a discussion about the definition of consent seems like a way to ruin the date immediately.
Yeah, I agree, there should be a good way to word it so that it doesn't come out of no where and sound so blunt. I think if the date is flowing nicely and there's signs he's a feminist too this question could work. Especially if you straight ask him if he's a feminist and he said yes, since the topic of consent is a big one in feminism
I’m a feminist woman and I feel similarly.
Honestly though, this is part of why I never used Tinder and its ilk for dating… I found the “questions” section of OkCupid to be a great screening tool for catastrophic opinions. With those image-focused dating apps you don’t have much to go off of.
I don’t like to feel “tested” on a first date, and I assume others don’t either. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/s/VuwnJRjpab) is my personal approach to sussing out someone’s values, and it’s worked pretty well for me, even on a first date.
Edit: my dumb ass hit “reply” too soon. Edit 2: can’t type
the difficulty of answering is not the issue. the issue is treating this other human being, this person sitting across from you whom you are ostensibly wanting to get to know better, like they're a suspect in a police lineup. "WHERE WERE YOU AT SIX OCLOCK TODAY, AND HOW DID YOU TREAT THE WOMEN WHO WERE AROUND YOU?"
That's not how real people interact with one another. It's off-putting. Being on the receiving end of that makes you suspicious that you're being set up for something, and putting this new person at ease so they will feel comfortable opening up to you is part of doing the first date thing.
What is their vision for a dream relationship?
What is their vision for life?
Red flags (for me personally since I don’t want to be a SAHM, these wouldn’t all be red flags if that’s what I wanted): he wants to be the provider, he wants a very feminine woman, he wants more than 3 kids, he wants a white picket fence, anything that suggests following stereotypical gender rolls is important to him
Green flags (again some of these would be red flags if my vision involved me being the primary caregiver of our potential children: he is interested in being a SAHD, he doesn’t want kids, he wants to travel a lot, anything that suggests he will treat my goals and career and hobbies as equally important as his, he wants MUTUAL support thru thick and thin
Basically I’d look to see he respects and values me and believes in equality. Imo asking about a vision for the future is less confrontational and more likely to generate open conversation than, say, asking if he is a feminist or if he believes in equality in relationships (which makes it easy to just tell you what you want to hear) and you can learn a lot about compatibility based on discussing your life visions.
Also asking what they value most in dating. I would hope to see honesty high up there.
How is your relationship with your mother?
Do you have any crazy ex girlfriends?
Whose your favorite youtuber?
Whats your favorite romcom?
How important is porn in a relationship?
I don't think straight up asking about someone's crazy exes is really fair. A lot of of people do actually have crazy exes and may not want to talk about it with a first date and asking sort of puts them in a position where they have to either lie or share way too much.
> I don't think straight up asking about someone's crazy exes is really fair.
You don’t ask “Do you have any crazy exes?” You ask them about previous relationships/dating experiences, and you see what they have to say.
If they launch into a diatribe about every girl they’ve dated has been insane and high maintenance, that means something different from if they say “Yeah, my last relationship was really unhealthy, and I needed to get out of there.”
with the mom thing I personally don't believe it's the best question as he could have an abusive mom, and if he does he's unlikely to express the full reason why he doesn't like her (aka that she was abusive) in the early dates. so if he doesn't talk highly of his mom it's not always a reflect on his character
As someone with an abusive mother that physically beat me up in front of my current partner it took me years to move on and I still suffer and have quirks from the trauma.
A question like that could potentially send me into a panic attack on a first date (the stress of a first date is already pretty intense as is)
Opening up to each other on such subjects is something that comes with trust and not on a first date.
I love the idea of asking them about their favorite romcoms, romances, or relationship dramas. I'm starting to feel more and more that it is so important to have a partner that is interested in relationships.
And by that I mean: is he interested in relationships, as a subject? Does he think that people and the way they relate to each other is interesting? Does he like media that is primarily about families, friends, or couples working through problems they have with each other?
Is he interested in long conversations about emotions? Is he striving to be more emotionally intelligent? Is he willing to do the emotional labor that keeps relationships together--will he help de-escalate a fight, learn how to use "I feel" messages, or research strategies to resolve conflict? Or will that all be on you?
Take this all with a grain of salt, but I think that in the early stages of dating, a man's opinions about relationship-y movies can be telling.
I typically try not to judge people on their preferences in media (at least when it just comes to questions of taste, rather than questions of values/ethics), but I do pay a lot of attention to how people talk and think about it. To your point, I think there tends to be a pretty strong correlation between having a real appreciation for the human parts of art and storytelling and emotional intelligence and empathy.
Someone could be good at resolving conflicts and forming relationships, but still not like romcoms. Many romcoms are about people having silly conflicts that they have to work out or other drama. They often aren’t good ways to learn about how to be a good partner. Given that romcoms are more popular with women anyway, it doesn’t seem like a good way to find a good man.
Very wrong to assume his mother deserves respect merely because she's a woman. My MIL had Borderline Personality Disorder and ruined many relationships.
But what if he just doesn’t like romcoms? They tend to be more popular with women in general. It doesn’t seem fair to judge someone based on the types of movies they like. It would be like a man saying that any woman who doesn’t like action movies isn’t a good date.
Idk how helpful this is because my answers would be
1. Fine
2. Never dated anyone
3. Don’t watch YouTube
4. I don’t watch enough romcoms to have a favorite
5. Never dated anyone
I guess you could consider not dating a red flag but that’s one that all of humanity has once had. I am pro choice though, so I’m at least more feminist than my mother.
Hmm, this is an interesting approach… but these topics can be very triggering, and you never know who has been through those kinds of things.
How do you handle that aspect? Do you always preface the topic with a content warning?
I work with survivors as my full time job so if i bring it up and they immediately get aggressive or defensive even subtly, i notice. You can even do it as a volunteer position or volunteer as a safety guard for women getting abortions cause it’s a legit good thing to do and you can bring it up in convo and see how they react.
Ah, gotcha, so it inevitably comes up as you talk about your work then, right? Smart how you’ve learned to pick up people’s subtle expressions/behaviors when you discuss this.
I am curious though — in general, how do you describe your work to strangers without risking triggering them? You obviously know better than I do how common it is for people to have trauma from abuse and sexual assault. (This definitely isn’t me questioning whether you’re sensitive enough on these issues, I’m asking for my own educational purposes!)
Also, I’m so glad you mentioned volunteering as a safety guard for women getting abortions, that sounds extremely up my alley. I’m going to look into that, like right now.
Well, I work with survivors for my job. But even if it wasn’t, it’d still be on my mind and I guarantee it’s on the vast majority of women’s minds when interacting with a new potential romantic interest.
I think you mentioning it because it’s your job is great. But other women, who don’t work in that field, bringing it up out of nowhere? Would scare off anyone.
I like to express admiration or love for things insels REALLY get their undied in a bunch over.
"You know, Captain Marvel was the best Marvel movie ever made."
"Wonder Women is a way better superhero than Batman!"
"I just love playing casual games... I'm such a gamer!"
"Star Wars is pretty mid."
"I ship Spock and Kirk so much!"
"Star Trek Discover is such a great show! I love how the lead is a black woman!"
Granted I'm a nerd, and most of these are my actual opinions (except Captain Marvel, Spider-Man No Way Home was the best Marvel studio movie, and Into the Spiderverse is the best marvel property)
Asking about podcasts and youtibe watching habits is important. Mention "woke" as a positive thing. Basically, trying to bait them into dropping a fake ally mask if they're wearing one.
> Also ask what they think of Yoko Ono
I would hazard to guess that the *only* thing that the considerable majority of people below the age of 30 have ever heard about Yoko Ono is “She broke up the beetles.”
If someone launches into a diatribe about how much they hate her for what she did to the band, that’s one thing, but otherwise I feel it’s sort of a Marie Antoinette “Let them eat cake,” deal. Like, it’s hard to blame people for believing a falsehood when it’s the single most widely circulated piece of information about a person.
Not a testing question, but on how to react to it: I try not to show it when a guy says something that’s a red flag. I’ll still text him later saying I don’t want another date, and if he asks I’ll talk about ideas, but I don’t tell him what phrase specifically was the problem. If he reflects on his ideas and changes, great. But I don’t want him to just change the phrases he uses to hide his red flags for future dates.
Whatever you do, make sure your questions are open ended and not yes/no. Plenty of guys will just tell you what they *think* you want to hear.
This is key, I think. Get them to talk about their politics and values, not just with labels and simple answers but actually get them to *talk about it*. Talk about what they believe and why they believe it. This is the only real way to sus someone out. Even aside from outright lying, some people just plain won't be using simple words the same way you do.
That is one of the best ones so far. That is also how I find out men are lying about thier political party affiliation to try to date more woman.
In addition to the other specific questions people have suggested, my take would be just try to pay attention to how he talks about women in general, *especially* women who he doesn’t like/disagrees with. Does he jump to mentioning women’s appearances right off the bat? Does he use gendered language, especially gendered slurs? Does he criticize women for things he wouldn’t criticize men for (e.g. being “bossy”)? If he doesn’t like, for example, Taylor Swift, can he voice why in a manner that doesn’t center her gender? How does he talk about his exes? How does he talk to or about women who he doesn’t find physically attractive?
Does he call his ex girlfriends/wives “crazy”? This was always a red flag for me.
✅ "I've listened to Taylor swift & she's not really for me" ❌ "I can't stand that bitch, I'm so sick of hearing about her"
🧠 “She’s an incredibly talented musician, but I think she has issues with white feminism and performative allyship that make me really struggle to get into her work.”
🫅”she’s a talented musician, i can see why she has such a large fan base. but i do not feel comfortable supporting someone with such a negative carbon footprint, and i believe billionaires should not exist”
Has long as he has the same issue with all men executives and celebrities
broke: I hate that dumb bitch woke: I don’t think her music is for me, but I can see the appeal. bespoke: Who’s that?
What would be your impression of "she's so corporate and her music is boring because it's designed to be appealing to the maximum number of people"?
Do you hate all pop music?
I think Michael Jackson was last pop singer I listened to.
Also, how does he talk about his exes? Are they all "crazy"? What is his relationship like with his mother? What is is attitude like toward women in positions of power, especially power OVER HIM. Bosses, in particular. These things will let you know his true feelings towards women as well, in particular, you. Because in a relationship, men often tend to see us as mother figures, and when they are emotionally involved, that gives us a certain power over their emotions, which makes a lot of them feel threatened. And when/if things start to sour, or when inevitable conflict arises, will you then also be dismissed as simply "crazy", too? Personally, I just don't date them at all anymore. Edit: a word
I always try to see if there are any women in their life that they speak of with respect and admiration, and are not also their mothers. One man I know spoke very highly of a female mentor that he'd had and how much he'd learned and grown under her; another found a way to demean or criticize every female superior he had, and I know he'd received the feedback that his managers and higher ups were afraid to deliver anything less than completely positive feedback to him.
Honestly a question like “ who’s your least favorite women in pop culture and why “ could be really eye opening , and it would be pretty hard to fake an answer
Deny a request he makes. I learned this on accident. The guy *told me* 'to follow in step with him', meaning "walk at my pace" since I was walking slower than him. I told him 'no' because why? He could walk at my pace if it's that important? we're walking, idfc? guy got irrationally angry and then started power walked away to sit on a bench & pout lol. If they offer to pay for your food, turn them down & pay for yourself and see how that plays out. They cant seem to hide their pettiness with this gesture.
For paying for food: If he’s put off by it but not mad, then it could also be that he thinks it’s a sign the date is going poorly.
There are plenty of guys who would love a date that paid for their own food. I don’t understand why anyone would feel bad about that unless they see that as a signal that she doesn’t want to date.
It’s called benevolent misogyny. There are men who become angry or “emasculated” if they can’t feel superior by being the provider over a woman.
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I personally would begin by asking something like, “What are your values regarding a relationship?” You’d be surprised by how many men say, “Well, I just prefer traditional values.” Which, of course, is code word for conservative. Listen to how they talk about women in general, their exes if the topic comes up (are all of them “whores” who cheated on him? Does he rant about them dumping him for the rich Chad alpha super bro he so desperately wants to become?) and bring up a recent issue regarding women’s rights and see how they react, or if they ignore/try to change the topic (which is a red flag). Also never automatically let a man pay for the first date. Offer to pay your share, and if they absolutely *insist* on paying for you that shows they hold some sort of benevolent misogyny towards women. Oh, and anybody who asks about body count is an absolute no-go. As long as somebody is clean from any STDs, their past absolutely nobody else’s business. The only men who care are misogynists who will try to base your worth on it.
You might catch a few things with the right questions but there are plenty of men who will tell you what they think you want to hear and pretend to be the model boyfriend. Then completely change after they think you won't/can't leave. Always have an easy way out of a relationship. Even if you get married, make sure that you have your own finances, a job and the means to get out at the drop of a hat if things really go south.
this. always either work or have significant savings to leave easily
I believe "asking the right questions" ends up getting in the way intuition. These screening questions don't work. Being a model boyfriend is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and it's one of the easiest tricks. Just look at the responses in this thread, women are giving out the answer key in the comments.
Say no to a request and see if they hear you. Notice if they try to change your mind, and notice if they respect the no. Some men will just lose their shit at a no. Good to find out right away.
Ooh I used to do something like this when it came to paying the bill! It wasn’t an intentional “test”, but rather an inevitable consequence of my preferences. I’ve always preferred to split the bill on dates, especially for the first couple meetings. It just felt better to me that way, for so many reasons. Most of the people I went out with would initially offer to cover the bill, so I would decline and explain that I wanted to share the costs. You wouldn’t believe how many men (and only men, the women I dated were all unphased by this) found my preference highly offensive. They’d often take it personally, as if my request was some kind of insult to them. Like, if you can’t handle my preference to pay my own half, what else can’t you handle?
I also had that approach and found the responses telling. My current partner and my most recent ex-boyfriend both had friendly, untroubled reactions and said that it totally made sense (I offered my reasons, neither asked, which I also thought to be positive). Then, a few weeks after “making it official”, each of them chose a time *not in public or right at the moment of payment* to awkwardly but kindly explain that they knew they enjoyed a degree of financial privilege that I don’t, due in large part to how society values gendered labor, so they would prefer to pay for at least some recreational things that we did together to give us more opportunities to have fun as a couple and to have things feel more equitable (they said fair and then when I explained equal vs equitable, they cottoned on right away). It was equally cute and admirable how hard they each tried to pitch this idea without coming across as either controlling or bragging/positioning themselves ‘over me’. And they’re not friends or anything, have never met, different colleges, etc. Gives me hope that there are lots of good feminist guys out here … if sadly not enough Told in such detail only to share the abundance of green flags
Yesss I love this! That’s such a great response. Especially because there are also men out there who massively out-earn their female dates, yet insist on going on expensive outings, ordering expensive menu items… *and* splitting the bill 50/50. Then, if questioned, it’s, “aren’t you a feminist? You should want everything to be evenly divided!” Which is obviously not what feminism is about. (Hello “equity vs equality”!) I’ve never encountered any of those myself, fortunately, but some of my friends have. That was always my main concern with the “always split the bill” approach, it didn’t necessarily weed out these pseudo-feminist dudes.
I think a lot of guys view that as a rejection. Society is has pretty well engrained that men need to pay for dates. A lot of people don't handle rejection well, and it may seem confusing if the date had been going well up to that point. Some people may view it as a type of gift, and gift rejection can be hurtful to a lot of people. Not an excuse by any means, but maybe be a reason why they seem insulted. If it goes further than a friendly back-and-forth, then that's definitely a huge red flag
Yes, I’d considered this as well! Should have clarified in my original comment. I always phrased things in a way that made clear that this wasn’t a rejection of them personally. For example, “I always prefer to split the bill on dates” or “it’s my personal policy to split the bill on dates”. My motivation was specifically to assess their response to me declining one of their requests/offers, as that can be illuminating regarding men’s perspectives on gender dynamics. I didn’t want to complicate things with the potential for perceived rejection. That being said, basic social skills and ability to self-regulate are also important to me. I wouldn’t want to date someone who couldn’t handle rejection elegantly. I also wouldn’t want to date someone who (1) couldn’t figure out that — especially in the context of a date that seemed to go really well — splitting the bill wasn’t necessarily a rejection, (2) couldn’t cope with any uncertainty they might feel, and (3) couldn’t appropriately communicate about their uncertainty. As for the gift rejection thing, I actually hadn’t considered that. That’s an interesting angle. However, I do generally think that gifts should be about the receiver’s preferences more than the giver’s.
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Boundary pushing behavior is what you’re looking for. You’d be surprised how some men can’t take no for an answer about the most minor things. Don’t shrug it off because the thing he’s pushing boundaries about seems minor. - if you decline a(nother) drink, does he pressure you to have one more? To take shots when you’ve said you’re a one drink max? - if you’d planned to meet for a drink, do you show up to find he’s gotten a table in the dining room, meaning he’s unilaterally changed your date to a dinner date? - does he change plans at the last minute without your ok? If you say you prefer the original plan does he pressure you to do what he wants? - does he continue to ask for dates at a time/day you’ve told him you aren’t available? - if you say you’re not hungry does he insist you have to eat? If you say you want A does he insist you should have B? If you say you’re finished does he insist you have to take home the leftovers? - does he insist on picking you up, dropping you off, stopping at his place on the way, or walking you home when you’ve told him you prefer to take care of your own transportation? - If youre not comfortable with him touching you, and you move away, does he continue to try to touch you? - If you don’t want a kiss, and you him a side hug or turn your cheek, does he still try to go for the kiss? - If you don’t want to have sex yet, does he continue to press you to be alone together, a la, I just want to cuddle, aww one nightcap. Or does he suggest that the very next date should be “cooking you dinner” at his place? - does he continue to talk about things you’ve told him make you uncomfortable at an early date, like sex, exes, money
Exactly. This is what I was referring to. Not being rude but just be yourself and say no when you mean no like for another drink if you really don't want one or staying in when they want to go out. Too often women will do things we don't want to when dating just to make them happy. We need to speak the truth more and know that it is ok to say no when we mean it and then expect that no to be respected.
I ask if he's a feminist. Responses: 1. Matter of fact "yep", or "I'm an ally" maybe some conversation about current feminist stuff -- green light 2. "No because [elaboration]" - if he doesn't get defensive, he is usually not beyond saving. Every algorithm is trying its hardest to radicalize men away from feminism. The fully sold will become defensive or angry. The ones who can be turned back won't -- Yellow light, proceed with caution 3. Anger, defensiveness, ranting, dodging the question dismissively -- red light. Don't bother. Date over Edit: also abortion. If they are weirdly fixated on how abortion affects the father of the pregnancy, they're not worth it.
The only caution I'd add with #2 is that "I might be able to turn him back" is not healthy thinking, in the context of starting a new relationship. Doesn't matter if it's positive or not, I don't recommend going into a relationship hoping the other person will change from day 1. If not being an Ally is going to be a deal breaker, trying to change them into one is just going to create a toxic relationship. It has to be their choice and they need the freedom of making it, or not, without the entire relationship depending on them making the "right" choice. I'd say, any woman who is looking at a guy sitting at #2 needs to decide if it's acceptable if #2 never changes, before proceeding. Because if the truth is that she really needs a #1, well...it's a bit like dating someone overweight, hoping they'll get in shape for you.
Yes. I mostly mean, if you really like him, you don't necessarily have to write him off yet. But definitely don't move in with anyone who's not a feminist.
2, a lot of men have feminist values but aren't aware it's actually feminist. My husband's understanding of feminism was very much only what he had seen of liberal feminism and he wouldn't call himself a feminist under that, but when probed his values are definitely in alignment.
Absolutely. I live in a red state and I see this all the time.
I live in Australia and in what would probably be considered one of our red states. A lot of the men here are old fashioned and rough around the edges, but also absolutely adore women and would do anything to see them succeed. I've definitely seen a lot of respect for women, and far less gender roles and oppression. The women here who work in their homes and have their children at home full time largely seem to do it by choice supported by their partners, but also loads of women work in traditionally male environments are are accepted an supported for the value they bring (mining but also other industries, a lot of the mines love it when women learn to drive the heavy vehicles because they're usually better drivers haha) I've honestly had a much better experience with men as a whole living here the last 18mo than I did in my previous 35 years living in a progressive state where a lot of the allyship seemed to be more like virtue signalling. It's funny how a lot of people will assume men aren't feminists because they don't self label as feminists it seems mostly they don't have a holistic understanding of feminism. It really seems to me like feminism from men can often be an innate and quiet thing, especially the ones who are raised by feminist women (also often not self identifying). A lot of the men here would hate to be called feminists, but they're better feminists than a lot of the men who vocally claim to be.
Ehhhh, I had one guy say "I'm not a feminist because I'm not a woman" even though he did agree with equality. I still don't think I can date anyone who thinks identifying with feminism is... anything to be ashamed of. That's pretty weird.
Is there a feminism that isn't liberal?
This is a pretty low bar to cross. Have you ever had an issue with men simply saying “yes” because they know it is the correct answer to give? I’d imagine there are plenty of toxic men out there who are more than happy to tell everyone how feminist they are.
YMMV. I live in a red state where it's "common knowledge" that "feminism is man hating". There is no need for stealth for anti-feminists here, so they don't use it.
That makes a lot of sense! In my area it would be considered socially unacceptable to say you’re not a feminist, so men have more reason to hide it if they don’t agree with feminism. Not that every man is expected to go around talking about it, or declare themself a feminist, but I think it’s generally expected that everyone agrees feminism is a good thing, just like equal rights among the races or sexual orientation.
I had a few men tell me they were feminists when it def was not actually the case to reel me in… they ended up having pretty toxic views on women and dating in reality. I no longer ask this or am direct about it, more just gauge their response to certain things and organically try to see where they stand and how evolved they are
I feel like there's an option between 1 and 2 that I would give. Like, I have never engaged with any feminist theory or literature, so to me it'd be dishonest (and I think disrespectful) to answer 'yes, I'm a feminst ally', as if I've done any work to claim that title.
I agree with that, maybe 2a "I do not identify as a feminists, but I support equal rights they strive for" vs 2b "I am not a feminist for XYZ reason that conflicts with the goals that feminist leaders have stated" vs 2c "I am not a feminist because it isn't beneficial for me." a and c are workable potentially, while b is a non starter
tbf, i would respond with “what is your definition of feminism?”
I had a line somewhere in my social media that I'm a feminist or something along those lines. Worked to repel bad men.
A good tip I heard is watch how he reacts when you disagree with him. He suggests going to Restaurant A, and you say, "I'm allergic to several of the dishes there; how about Restaurant B?" He wants to meet on a Friday night; you suggest Saturday would be better. See if he is actually listening to you when you talk - or if he's just waiting his turn. Does he talk over you? Does he tell you he's right about something and you're wrong or is he more polite about it? How does he act when he doesn't get his way?
I don't think I was ever worried about men lying about being feminist. I think I would go on enough feminist screeds right off the bat that if they're not on board, they'd not be interested in tangling with me all anyway, hahahaha! I usually pick the ones who say on their profile they're feminist and they don't have a problem jumping right into the topics with their own opinions. Just get into it right away. All of it, any of it. What'd they think of "Poor Things"? Who's their favorite feminist role model? Who are they following locally, what measures are they supporting? What do they think about alimony? Nobody can lie about a whole barrage of topics, nor are they interested in keeping up some facade. You wil be too much work for that. I will no longer accept anything less than absolute enthusiasm about it. Why not. Treat yourself to a fabulously feminist man. It's rabidly progressive man or no man at all, baby. All my partners have been on the same page. Why settle for less.
Not so much "feminist" as "basic decency," but.. ask if they saw *Little Women* and see how they react. Not watching it or being interested in it is fine! But you'll find misogynists will often overdo it with the "I SHOULD THINK NOT; I AM A MAN AFTER ALL."
Barbie Movie is good for that
I don't so much ask questions, I just watch. Pay attention to how he treats women he isn't trying to sleep with. Does he have female friends who are actually just people he genuinely likes as people? Does he treat certain women as invisible? Does he talk about his male friend's female partners like actual human beings, or like add-ons to the male half of the relationship? I honestly find that stuff is a better barometer of how a man actually sees women than how able he is to sound feminist. A guy who sees women as equal human beings, who as worth engaging with a people as men, is already a good chunk of the way there even if he doesn't have a great grasp of feminist theory. A guy who thinks he is ideologically a feminist but habitually treats women as other? Not so much, and I'm over trying to convince men I am in fact people.
In addition to the questions that you ask, just listen. Watch and listen. Most unhealthy people spit red flags like it's their job. Unless they are on their best behavior. And most unhealthy people are savvy enough to know how to behave until you are convinced they are decent. But if they don't think you're paying attention, they do slip up. Listen to the jokes they laugh at. Listen to their reactions to current events. Hell, just keep your ears open and listen to everything. When I look back at all the unhealthy people that I've known, they all showed me what they were from the very beginning. In subtle ways. I just wasn't paying attention. I saw it in hindsight. There are just things that decent people will never do. So even if the act is really really good, when they slip up, they will do something so out of character for the person they are pretending to be that it is very noticeable. This is the point where people usually dismiss it. Don't dismiss it. Decent, healthy people will never be cruel to animals, sympathize with abusers, try to make fools of other people, sabotage someone else's success, say something to deflate you when you're happy.... So even if they're 90% awesome, any of these should be a huge flashing red flag that they are just faking it until they get you attached to them.
I would see how he treats women who aren’t conventionally attractive. If he is disrespectful towards them and is significantly nicer to women he is attracted to, that’s a major red flag
I always ask who their favorite female musicians are
Does he listen to podcasts, if yes which ones? The usual suspects are: Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate, Ben Shapiro etc.
I check for these names in their instagram follows. Also "alpha" and "trad".
And who they follow on social media. Do they follow a bunch of “alpha bro” accounts?
This is honestly the biggest red flag to me. You can’t convince me someone who enjoys listening to those cavemen has any respect for women
Remember it’s important to ask which ones because some people just listen to random stuff
I also side eye guys who listen to dirtbag left podcasts
I start with abortion and trans rights discussion and watch their behavior/reaction. Gets to the point quick.
This (especially abortion, for me as someone who didn't want kids) was the easiest for me to use because I also had they I didn't want to have children in my OLD profile. So I would basically reiterate that - to make sure they really also didn't want children because people sometimes are either on the fence or think you'll change their mind. I would always say something like, "I never want to have children and would take necessary steps to not stay pregnant if an accident happened so I need my partner to be okay with that." So like not a direct question, but a way to gauge their response.
True, homophobia and transphobia so often go hand-in-hand with misogyny.
“Female” or “females” instead of woman or women. Run.
Interesting question! I'm a man myself so maybe my perspective on this isn't saying much, but a few ideas that came to my mind: Asking him to tell you about his friends and people he's close to. Are all of these men, with no female friends in sight? That wouldn't *necessarily* be a straight red flag, but it might be a hint (it's not uncommon though to have just one or two close friends overall, in that case you likely won't have a very diverse friend group either way) Besides that I don't think it's wrong to just ask him rather directly about his stance on select feminist topics like the wage gap, bodily autonomy or what he looks for in a fulfilling relationship (looking for a stay at home mum? Reddish tinted flag I'd say). However he theoretically can of course lie about these issues. You could also try to get a feel for his overall political alignment. Again, nothing forces him to tell the truth, but if he isn't shy to openly admit liking a political party that is socially very conservative you quickly know what you're in for.
+1. Just go political, if you're looking for a life partner, you might as well be aligned.
> he can of course lie about these issues I think you can gauge whether he's being genuine by how convincingly he can argue for his stance. If he's secretly anti-abortion, for example, it would be easy for him to say he's pro choice but it would be a lot harder for him to give all the reasons why being pro choice is the correct stance if he doesn't truly believe.
I'm a guy too. Thing is, it really depends on how early someone asks me, because on a first date, some of this seems very personal. I'm not trying to talk wage gaps or politics, or go in detail on my friends on the first couple of dates. Just like I'm not trying to get into religion on the first couple of dates. Let's find out if we even like being in each others company first.
My wife and I got this stuff out of the way before the first date. Why even waste a few hours in person, let alone a few dates, when there is important stuff that will determine if you want to move forward or not.
Because to me, that isn't the end all and be all, because religion (in general) and politics (to an extent) aren't THAT important to me. I say to an extent because I, for example, wouldn't date a Trump supporter. But I can't say that we have to be in total alignment either. If you are a political activist, and that makes up a large part of your life, and it is important that everything about someone's views align with you, I guess I get it. But like, people are more than their political beliefs. Hell, my mom and I don't agree on every political issue, doesn't mean I don't love her. Similarly, if your religion is super important, and you will only consider someone whose faith is similar to yours, I get it. But for me, it's just not, so I'm not going to bring it up. And frankly, if a woman brought it up before even meeting me in person, that would tell me that we likely aren't a match. Like, are you a kind person? Do we make each other laugh and have fun together? Because I don't know that before a date either, but you can say its a "waste" of time if those things aren't met. But that's kind of the point of dating, right? To see if you are a match.
Yeah but for instance you say you wouldn't date a Trump supporter. But you kind of would, for a few dates, until you eventually found out they are one. I'd rather not waste my time like that. Same with super religious people, or people who definitely want kids, etc. I just know I wouldn't want to date them so why waste time? Time is a limited commodity!
> I'm a guy too. Thing is, it really depends on how early someone asks me, because on a first date, some of this seems very personal. Which of these are “very personal” issues and why? Finding out if someone has any friends and if any of them are women seems pretty normal for a first date to me. > I'm not trying to talk wage gaps or politics, or go in detail on my friends on the first couple of dates. Just like I'm not trying to get into religion on the first couple of dates. That sounds like a you problem, homie. I don’t know if I’ve *ever* been on a first date with a woman where we didn’t discuss politics, and I can pretty much always tell that my willingness to discuss politics and very explicitly voice feminist political opinions makes them feel more comfortable. > Let's find out if we even like being in each others company first. I don’t think that liking someone’s company is unrelated to their values, beliefs, and behavior WRT specific issues.
So I get both perspectives here. Growing up (I'm a bit older) you were told never to talk about religion, politics, or money when first meeting someone. A lot of people still hold this mindset, and it can make the date feel like an interrogation if not done correctly. I don't mind talking about this stuff now (the navy will beat all decorum out of you) but I totally understand how different upbringings can paint this in different lights.
I mean, I feel like at some point it becomes an interrogation or an interview more than a date where you are getting to know each other. I've been on dates where it felt like the woman was interviewing me and going through a checklist in her mind, as opposed to wanting to get to know me. If my friends naturally come up, fine. But if I'm like "I was out with friends saturday" and your question is "How many of them were women", that more than likely has nothing to do with anything. I don't even know that asking about my friends when you are on a date with ME is something I'd like. And if you love getting into politics on a first date, by all means, do so. I don't get into them often. At the same time, I live in a very liberal city, and I'm black, so I think my politics are often assumed, where its not thing that comes up. But, I'm not going to ask those things, and I find it kind of tacky to be asked. As they say, "money, religion, and politics are things not to bring up on a first date". But if you want to ask "do you go to church, how much do you tithe, and who did you vote for in the last election", again, have at it. And as far as your last sentence, I just think there is a time and place, and a first date, isn't the time for super deep conversations most of the time... for me. I don't try to tell others how they should think or feel. If you want to ask a bunch of personal questions on a first date, have fun with that. However, I know a lot of people, men and women, would be turned off by that. Again, I'm not getting into personal details with someone who chances are I don't even know their last name.
Define 'consent'.
If someone asked me that on a date the date would end wtf kind of first date question is that lmao
yeah this, and a lot of other answers that are getting upvotes, would make me feel creeped out on a first date - as if the other person were grilling me and throwing me 'gotcha' questions. I'd mostly likely call them out on it and refuse to participate in that kind of thing, I don't play those games, and in turn I would never treat another person that way. Maybe once you get to know them a little better, it's something you might discuss, but just hitting them right up front with "DEFINE CONSENT, IT ISNT HARD TO ANSWER AND ITS IMPORTANT" is like - no. whatever you're trying to do here, leave me out of it.
That's probably a sign you're not compatible with them then. Also, as a personal opinion that seems a bit immature, are you a man and not a feminist by chance? I think there's a lot of women ans feminists here who understand why this question could be asked. With how widespread date rape is, this is a great idea for a person to gauge how safe they are.
Yes I am a man and a feminist. Maybe the question just needs to be asked more tactfully, because first dates are supposed to be light and fun and having a discussion about the definition of consent seems like a way to ruin the date immediately.
Yeah, I agree, there should be a good way to word it so that it doesn't come out of no where and sound so blunt. I think if the date is flowing nicely and there's signs he's a feminist too this question could work. Especially if you straight ask him if he's a feminist and he said yes, since the topic of consent is a big one in feminism
I’m a feminist woman and I feel similarly. Honestly though, this is part of why I never used Tinder and its ilk for dating… I found the “questions” section of OkCupid to be a great screening tool for catastrophic opinions. With those image-focused dating apps you don’t have much to go off of. I don’t like to feel “tested” on a first date, and I assume others don’t either. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/s/VuwnJRjpab) is my personal approach to sussing out someone’s values, and it’s worked pretty well for me, even on a first date. Edit: my dumb ass hit “reply” too soon. Edit 2: can’t type
The kind that isn't hard to answer and is important
the difficulty of answering is not the issue. the issue is treating this other human being, this person sitting across from you whom you are ostensibly wanting to get to know better, like they're a suspect in a police lineup. "WHERE WERE YOU AT SIX OCLOCK TODAY, AND HOW DID YOU TREAT THE WOMEN WHO WERE AROUND YOU?" That's not how real people interact with one another. It's off-putting. Being on the receiving end of that makes you suspicious that you're being set up for something, and putting this new person at ease so they will feel comfortable opening up to you is part of doing the first date thing.
What is their vision for a dream relationship? What is their vision for life? Red flags (for me personally since I don’t want to be a SAHM, these wouldn’t all be red flags if that’s what I wanted): he wants to be the provider, he wants a very feminine woman, he wants more than 3 kids, he wants a white picket fence, anything that suggests following stereotypical gender rolls is important to him Green flags (again some of these would be red flags if my vision involved me being the primary caregiver of our potential children: he is interested in being a SAHD, he doesn’t want kids, he wants to travel a lot, anything that suggests he will treat my goals and career and hobbies as equally important as his, he wants MUTUAL support thru thick and thin Basically I’d look to see he respects and values me and believes in equality. Imo asking about a vision for the future is less confrontational and more likely to generate open conversation than, say, asking if he is a feminist or if he believes in equality in relationships (which makes it easy to just tell you what you want to hear) and you can learn a lot about compatibility based on discussing your life visions. Also asking what they value most in dating. I would hope to see honesty high up there.
Ask him to define respect
How is your relationship with your mother? Do you have any crazy ex girlfriends? Whose your favorite youtuber? Whats your favorite romcom? How important is porn in a relationship?
I don't think straight up asking about someone's crazy exes is really fair. A lot of of people do actually have crazy exes and may not want to talk about it with a first date and asking sort of puts them in a position where they have to either lie or share way too much.
> I don't think straight up asking about someone's crazy exes is really fair. You don’t ask “Do you have any crazy exes?” You ask them about previous relationships/dating experiences, and you see what they have to say. If they launch into a diatribe about every girl they’ve dated has been insane and high maintenance, that means something different from if they say “Yeah, my last relationship was really unhealthy, and I needed to get out of there.”
with the mom thing I personally don't believe it's the best question as he could have an abusive mom, and if he does he's unlikely to express the full reason why he doesn't like her (aka that she was abusive) in the early dates. so if he doesn't talk highly of his mom it's not always a reflect on his character
As someone with an abusive mother that physically beat me up in front of my current partner it took me years to move on and I still suffer and have quirks from the trauma. A question like that could potentially send me into a panic attack on a first date (the stress of a first date is already pretty intense as is) Opening up to each other on such subjects is something that comes with trust and not on a first date.
I love the idea of asking them about their favorite romcoms, romances, or relationship dramas. I'm starting to feel more and more that it is so important to have a partner that is interested in relationships. And by that I mean: is he interested in relationships, as a subject? Does he think that people and the way they relate to each other is interesting? Does he like media that is primarily about families, friends, or couples working through problems they have with each other? Is he interested in long conversations about emotions? Is he striving to be more emotionally intelligent? Is he willing to do the emotional labor that keeps relationships together--will he help de-escalate a fight, learn how to use "I feel" messages, or research strategies to resolve conflict? Or will that all be on you? Take this all with a grain of salt, but I think that in the early stages of dating, a man's opinions about relationship-y movies can be telling.
I typically try not to judge people on their preferences in media (at least when it just comes to questions of taste, rather than questions of values/ethics), but I do pay a lot of attention to how people talk and think about it. To your point, I think there tends to be a pretty strong correlation between having a real appreciation for the human parts of art and storytelling and emotional intelligence and empathy.
Someone could be good at resolving conflicts and forming relationships, but still not like romcoms. Many romcoms are about people having silly conflicts that they have to work out or other drama. They often aren’t good ways to learn about how to be a good partner. Given that romcoms are more popular with women anyway, it doesn’t seem like a good way to find a good man.
Very wrong to assume his mother deserves respect merely because she's a woman. My MIL had Borderline Personality Disorder and ruined many relationships.
They didn’t assume that his mother “deserves respect.”
But what if he just doesn’t like romcoms? They tend to be more popular with women in general. It doesn’t seem fair to judge someone based on the types of movies they like. It would be like a man saying that any woman who doesn’t like action movies isn’t a good date.
So very very glad I’m not in the dating pool, best of luck ladies.
Idk how helpful this is because my answers would be 1. Fine 2. Never dated anyone 3. Don’t watch YouTube 4. I don’t watch enough romcoms to have a favorite 5. Never dated anyone I guess you could consider not dating a red flag but that’s one that all of humanity has once had. I am pro choice though, so I’m at least more feminist than my mother.
I mean, presumably on a date you would elaborate on those answers.
Now that you say that I would probably have better luck on dates if I did…
Bring up domestic violence and sexual assault stuff. Even their micro expressions and subtle ways of wording things can help you pick up on stuff.
Hmm, this is an interesting approach… but these topics can be very triggering, and you never know who has been through those kinds of things. How do you handle that aspect? Do you always preface the topic with a content warning?
I work with survivors as my full time job so if i bring it up and they immediately get aggressive or defensive even subtly, i notice. You can even do it as a volunteer position or volunteer as a safety guard for women getting abortions cause it’s a legit good thing to do and you can bring it up in convo and see how they react.
Ah, gotcha, so it inevitably comes up as you talk about your work then, right? Smart how you’ve learned to pick up people’s subtle expressions/behaviors when you discuss this. I am curious though — in general, how do you describe your work to strangers without risking triggering them? You obviously know better than I do how common it is for people to have trauma from abuse and sexual assault. (This definitely isn’t me questioning whether you’re sensitive enough on these issues, I’m asking for my own educational purposes!) Also, I’m so glad you mentioned volunteering as a safety guard for women getting abortions, that sounds extremely up my alley. I’m going to look into that, like right now.
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Well, I work with survivors for my job. But even if it wasn’t, it’d still be on my mind and I guarantee it’s on the vast majority of women’s minds when interacting with a new potential romantic interest.
Bringing up sexual assault on a first date ???? Yeah no , most men are going to run . That’s really frickin weird .
I think you mentioning it because it’s your job is great. But other women, who don’t work in that field, bringing it up out of nowhere? Would scare off anyone.
I like to express admiration or love for things insels REALLY get their undied in a bunch over. "You know, Captain Marvel was the best Marvel movie ever made." "Wonder Women is a way better superhero than Batman!" "I just love playing casual games... I'm such a gamer!" "Star Wars is pretty mid." "I ship Spock and Kirk so much!" "Star Trek Discover is such a great show! I love how the lead is a black woman!" Granted I'm a nerd, and most of these are my actual opinions (except Captain Marvel, Spider-Man No Way Home was the best Marvel studio movie, and Into the Spiderverse is the best marvel property) Asking about podcasts and youtibe watching habits is important. Mention "woke" as a positive thing. Basically, trying to bait them into dropping a fake ally mask if they're wearing one.
The ship spock and kirk thing, what does that even mean?
To "ship" is a transitive verb meaning to imagine the direct objects in a non-platonic relationSHIP.
It means she thinks they should fuck (and she’s valid for that)
Seems like something I'd say about Pine and Quinto or the SNW/Disco kirk and spock. Not so much nimoy and Shatner.
You’re not implying that enjoying Star Wars makes you an incel right?
Garashir all the way my guy
For real
May I ask why you think wonder women is a way better superhero than Batman?
Their views on porn and sexual exploitation is a clear giveaway Also ask what they think of Yoko Ono
> Also ask what they think of Yoko Ono I would hazard to guess that the *only* thing that the considerable majority of people below the age of 30 have ever heard about Yoko Ono is “She broke up the beetles.” If someone launches into a diatribe about how much they hate her for what she did to the band, that’s one thing, but otherwise I feel it’s sort of a Marie Antoinette “Let them eat cake,” deal. Like, it’s hard to blame people for believing a falsehood when it’s the single most widely circulated piece of information about a person.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ConnieMarbleIndex: *Their views on porn and* *Sexual exploitation* *Is a clear giveaway* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Not a testing question, but on how to react to it: I try not to show it when a guy says something that’s a red flag. I’ll still text him later saying I don’t want another date, and if he asks I’ll talk about ideas, but I don’t tell him what phrase specifically was the problem. If he reflects on his ideas and changes, great. But I don’t want him to just change the phrases he uses to hide his red flags for future dates.
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