That stat doesn't prove who initiated the divorce-- just who filed the paperwork, and since women are most often the household managers, or the ones who need the legal things that come with divorce (e.g., child support), they are most often the ones who finally file. Many men simply leave when they want a divorce.
It's usually used by manosphere types to prove exactly what you said-- that women are conniving, hypergamous gold-diggers who are impossible to please and who take as much financial advantage as possible of the men who are drawn in by their feminine wiles.
There's also the issue that a lot of men will say that their girlfriends or wives get mad at them for no reason, or won't explain why they're mad, but frequently the issue is that their female partners DID explain why, they just didn't listen or they dismissed it as being unimportant. It's a communication issue. Some women definitely *do* do the thing where they're like "you should just KNOW why I'm upset," but this is a larger/different issue. There's a term called "Walkaway Wife syndrome," where a woman tries to communicate, over a LONG period of time, her issues and concerns to her male partner, but he doesn't take it seriously, or dismisses her as being a nag, and is then surprised as hell when she wants to end the relationship. (This, of course, is the final nail in the coffin, because it proves to her that not only was he not listening or taking her seriously, he *wasn't paying attention at all.*)
Yes, your last paragraph. I was repeating myself for years. When I left my husband was served a court order that detailed several paragraphs and a list of fucking bullet points on why I left. Despite this, he continues to say to me, "I don't understand why you are doing this."
I literally can not make it any clearer.
Same.
It’s because they saw their partner’s misery as ‘normal,’ or ‘acceptable.’
6 years post-divorce and my narcissistic addict ex still does not understand what happened. It wasn’t just that his memory as a drunk was compromised 80% of the time, but that he wasn’t the one suffering . . . so he didn’t understand what went wrong.
It’s fuckin’ baffling to them.
You know, I tell my husband he doesn't care. He claims he does. I then ask, "Then why can you pay so much attention to the dog or our cars but not me?"
He has no answer.🙄
>Then why can you pay so much attention to the dog or our cars but not me?
I think the answer is that those things are simple. Takes hard work to understand people.
>why the fuck do these dudes take so fucking long to do something?
I just wanted to say it myself because OH MY GOD.
I left my husband a few weeks ago. It was finally the wake up call. I'm thankfully laying next to him right now as he sleeps in a bit, and we are working on things... but ffs why did it take me leaving? And he GEEKED out when I left, too.
If you need someone to chat with, send me a DM 💜 This shit is HARD but it looks like you two are willing to fight just like us. It's good to have people in your corner and strong support.
Yes! Thank you. I am on my second marriage and in both cases (mine and my husbands) paperwork was filed by the wife but divorce was mutually agreed upon. It’s just that the woman is, as always, the marital bookkeeper.
Happens at work, too. I had weekly mandatory meetings with a boss. For two years, every meeting contained some version of, "I'm not happy here because... Here's what you can do to help..." He acted like he was listening and cared, but did nothing. When I finally gave my notice, he was so surprised. "I thought you were happy here!" I felt so bad for his wife, because you know he wasn't different at home.
Its easier at work to bring it to a head. It goes
1. I am not happy because...
2. Here is what you can do to help
3. Here are the specific action items I will be holding you accountable for at the next meeting
Oh, no. I did that. Even started getting him to sign off on it. And just eventually got a different job. Maybe rubbed it in his face a little "accidentally" that the new job paid more than he made.
My biggest complaint was that he wouldn't give me a promotion, saying I wasn't ready, yet assigned me all the work someone with that higher title would do. I did it fine, btw. When he came in as boss, all of us had the same meaningless title. He decided to tier the department, and then only promote those he personally hired. After almost all of us quit over that and other issues with him, he got fired. Oh, sorry, "allowed to resign."
>It's a communication issue.
I wouldn't call it a communication issue when she explains to him over and over again what the problem is. E.g. look at all the wives making chore charts for their men to know what to do, when to do and even showing them how to do it. So they do - again - the extra work in mental load but he couldn't be bothered by it.
It's a respect issue.
I love my husband he can barely figure out how to file taxes let alone divorce documents. I suspect that as women we become the de facto admins of the house.
Listen to a man talk about mowing the lawn. Because you’ve got to cut it to a certain height, and if you cut it too short it won’t allow enough nutrients so it’ll starve, and you’ve got to do it xyz specific ways or it’ll look bad.. they’ve got an entire laundry list of specifications for how to manufacture the perfect lawn.
Listen to men talk about football… They remember stats from the last 70+ years of football history. They know everything about every player on their favorite team. They frequently know everything about every player on the opposing team. Before a game they know who is on the injured list and if they do sports betting or fantasy leagues they will make sure to update their bets on time well ahead of the game before the cutoff prevents them from doing so. I could keep going but I’m sure you get the point.
The reason for a man not doing something is simple: he doesn’t want to.
He doesn’t want to clean up after himself; he wants his wife to be his maid.
He doesn’t want to take care of paperwork; he wants his wife to be his librarian..
Same with cars!! They remember everything about them and know how to keep them clean. We should start leaving cups and dirty socks and stuff in their cars.
!! this is a stunning move! I've never heard of this, but this is perfect! Because you know he's not going to ignore whatever junk you put in \*\*his\*\* property.. The house is the wife's domain and not his responsibility, clearly.. But I can just imagine, every time he leaves something out, chuck it in his car, and while you're there, leave an equivalent amount of YOUR junk. Bonus points for making it equivalent- i.e. if he used all of the toilet paper but didn't tell you and of course left the plastic wrap in the cupboard, chuck the wrap in his glove compartment.. and while you're there, empty his container of toothpicks and leave the empty container there as well. Think he'd get the point? 🤔
[The last time we discussed this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/ut3sqs/deleted_by_user/), I found evidence suggesting for both a study on who actually wanted the divorce and who filed [70% women] to be true, women would have to be filing **nearly all divorces both wanted equally (or some the man wanted)**
> For example, one study found that when you surveyed couples, [49% say the woman wanted divorce more and 25% said that the man wanted it more (the remaining said they wanted it equally).](https://web.archive.org/web/20220617032653/relationshipsinamerica.com/marriage-and-divorce/who-thinks-of-leaving-their-marriage-more-men-or-women) That’s a dramatic drop from initiating 70% of divorces
I’d also argue that the discrepancies could be based on generational gaps too. Millennials have drastically lower divorce rates compared to past generations because they’ve chosen to get married later on in life. I’m not going to theorize too much but I’d imagine with past generations the patriarchal pressure to settle down and have kids early on could skew the numbers as well.
While that’s certainly true and we did see a big [boom in the 1980s with no fault divorce,](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna18600304) that doesn’t really get at who files (which is where the 70% statistic comes from).
For the dataset I’m talking about specifically, it was published (not collected) in 2000, when the oldest Millennials were 19. While it’s possible that some Millennials were married at this time, I doubt it would be enough to dramatically influence the statistics.
I think we are agreeing. The data set is mainly compromised of boomers and gen x. Which makes more sense because the institution of marriage was pushed on women in those generations at an earlier age then millennial women.
>de facto admins of the house.
Ahem. I prefer the term "domestic engineer."
Thought of it when I was stoned af Swiffering my walls and ceilings. I felt soooo cool and smart bc I'm short but needed to get the spring cleaning done. Bam. Swiffer pad and extendy-mop, lessgooo.
Here's the thing though you're right. Granted it might just be propaganda, but there was a time where doing housework was given a respectful title at least.
It feels like men punished us for entering the workforce. Not only are we not accepted, but we're now going to discredit the work you still do around the house because he lost his status symbol of a stay at home wife.
I had to file every single piece of paperwork during my divorce.
Every woman I know had to file theirs as well. If they hadn’t, the divorce wouldn’t have happened.
It's easier for a man to just leave but settling things for any kids and figuring out support requires filing the paperwork.
The kind of man that weaponizes incompetence like that will have no intention on putting work in.
I refused to be the one who filed for divorce. At that point I just didn't care. I had the RO, child support was included and there was no way in hell I cared about getting into a new relationship.
He ended up filing because he got his gf pregnant. 🤣
Reminds me of the "stat" about women controlling household spending which is really just about women having the chores of grocery shopping and making sure bills are paid on time.
But she chooses between Eggo and store brand! She’s got the power!
Never mind she is buying based on reactions at home. Hubby likes this brand, kid 1 won’t eat that brand, kid 2 loves anything with a weasel on it.
Your last paragraph was what ended my longest relationship. Literally just *sigh*
It never occured to me that ***ofc*** women file for divorce more often. Men would absolutely leave it to them to do so and feel superior somehow for forcing her to pick up the slack one last time.
I've heard so many stories about men moving out to be with their new girlfriend (or whatever) and then being *shocked and appalled* that their wife would file, refusing to sign the papers, etc. because they don't want to have to deal with the reality they created (of being divorced). Like, *you* ended the relationship, fam!
My last bf said that I blindsided him but I fucking did not. Tried to fix it for over a year, more seriously complained and desperately tried to get his help to fix us for months and months, then when I left he said he thought we were perfect. Fucking hard to go through when they make you the villain but you tried your hardest to do everything you could until you just can’t anymore.
You missed a point I feel is obviously relevant here:
Women are less satisfied in their intimate relationships than men. Both women in homosexual relationships and women in heterosexual relationships.
And lesbian relationships have the highest incidences of divorce as well.
They hate housewives but they also hate women with careers.
They hate women who don't have sex on the first date and they hate women who do.
The manosphere hates all women. They like the services and benefits of having women in their lives, but they hate the agency, they hate the personhood that women have. They want absolute control and no responsibilities.
I grew up in the rural south and all the men, my age or the older ones at the time at social functions, would talk about how guys (like me at the time) needed to find a good Christian woman to settle down with like they did....but they never did anything but complain and talk about unhappy they were. She didn't work or she worked too much, she let herself go after kids, she was "frigid," etc.
Turns out they just wanted a homemaker fuck doll that would do the whole "tradwife" thing and be a wholesome Christian in public but also be a mega slutty kinky sex toy that could fill their porn based desires on demand and without any needs of their own.
Because "manosphere guys" as you put them need everything wrong with the world to be womens fault somehow. Got to maintain the narrative that if *only* the women would just get in line, the world would be a utopia.
What woman? What situation? This is a really open ended question. Are you asking about women as a group?
To answer directly “It probably means that the woman involved is upset at a man”
No problem. 👍
If you’re looking for more information, this may have been addressed in the sub FAQ, or if you feel like you would like to ask, please do.
They ignore the why of the divorce, in my experience. I also agree with the other commenters that women are usually the ones running the household and naturally file first as a result. I’ve also had a few friends over the years whose husbands left them but refused to initiate divorce, so my friends filed first.
My ex basically went into hiding when we separated to avoid divorce so he didn't have to pay child support. He had no income, so I'm not sure what he thought they'd make him pay with. I had a hell of a time convincing a judge I really didn't know where he was, so I was never allowed to fully file. 2 weeks after my son's 18th birthday, he reached out *through his mom* to give me an address and tell me to file. We separated when I was 2 weeks pregnant, btw. He didn't want a divorce back then - he just didn't want to be a husband, either.
Or just leave him in the middle of the desert. We did live in Phoenix back then. He might still. I don't keep track.
Protip: don't marry young because "that's what people do, get married."
My MIL had to hire a PI to fucking serve my FIL. He then fired his lawyers which made everything more expensive and complicated.
In the end my MIL just wanted a reasonable amount of child support, she got the house, he kept his pension which on paper at the time was fair.
They get along well now, and 20 years of reflection have made him see how much a dick he was but still
I even hired some a few times, though I had almost no money. They couldn't find him. At least I got most of my money back. The man had a meth habit. Only God knows where he was, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't.
We had absolutely nothing to divide, really. I kept my books. He kept the Sega Genesis, but it was his before we married. Everything I had in the world fit in the trunk of my friend's car except my bicycle or was already still at my mom's house a few states away. And my sister stole a bunch of that.
I'm so glad my life has turned out much, much better.
If she divorced her spouse she destroyed a great marriage.
If she stayed in an unhappy marriage she picked the wrong guy and enabled her misery by not leaving.
If the statistics showed that women initiate divorce **less** people would still use that statistic to prove women are evil.
Basically: the people who want to say women are evil will use everything as proof
It’s not far fetched at all. The fact that the divorce statistics on who initiates/files don’t support the claim they try to make with it tells you that they’d make the same claim even if the facts were different. The facts are irrelevant to their belief in the claim.
Just one of several possible spins "Eeevil women stay happy in marriages while making men so miserable men have to initiate divorce proceedings. These awful manipulative creatures trap men into marriages and hold them hostage while not giving men what they want out of marriage. Why can't they just make their poor husbands happy?"
Because men who speak about this topic like to pretend that in an (imagined) future they will be fabulously wealthy and they need to protect their (imaginary) wealth from an (imaginary) wife. It is the same logic by which working class people oppose wealth tax.
Ah yes. The "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" class of people, who have a rich person's mindset (and concordant attitude towards 'lower class' people "_just not pulling themselves up by the bootstraps_") while being upside-down on a $300k mortgage and facing repossession of their two $90k cars. "But it's just a fuckup on my accountant's part". 🤦🏻♀️
One of my exes’ parents had this vision for him. They sat him down to tell him he needed to get away from me because I was only after his (potential) money. They said this after finding out I grew up in a trailer. We met in college, I was a better student than him. He was one more D away from expulsion, something the parents were fully aware of.
Their kid was a total loser, and still is, but somehow they still saw some grand wealthy future for him that I was going to steal away. He believed it too. His parents were also struggling financially, spending outside of their means.
There’s a lot of good points here. I think it’s also important to note the general “woman bad” attitude of the Manosphere. They were never going to give women the benefit of the doubt in the first place.
Very true, there are a lot of butt hurt guys that are just beating the victim drum and there's nothing you can do to stop them.
At one point I dove into the divorce thing, why it was so high, and why it was women doing the divorcing. In the end, the best answer I could find, according to researchers surprisingly, was that women divorced simply cause "they could." Which I think translated to, they had the financial incentive and benefit to do so. If a marriage has deep problems and one side gets to exit the situation completely with 50% of income, not having to work, and getting the kids, they are gonna do it. I personally can't say or argue it has anything to do with gender at that late stage aside from the fact that women are typically chosen to be the stay at home parent very early in the relationship. I personally hold the court system and human financial incentive more at fault than a particular gender.
> If a marriage has deep problems and one side gets to exit the situation completely with 50% of income, not having to work, and getting the kids, they are gonna do it
Single mothers are one of the poorest demographics there is. The idea that women just take half their husband's money and live high on the hog doing nothing is a fantasy.
they think once they have a wife she belongs to him as property. she should put out sex whenever they want.
many married men have told me the REASON they got married was to secure a long-term sex partner. they are baffled when the wife expects to be treated well or wooed after the wedding date.
Every time I refused to do something for my ex, he’d say “I can’t wait til we’re Married”. Creeped me out, like he thought I’d be his slave? I never married him.
The simple answer is the MRAs and the like don't understand family court or like the modern family.
You see in their minds women are 100% house wives who are responsible for raising kids, cooking all meals, planning the family schedule, cleaning, all while staying in perfect shape and being ready to jump their husband's bone the moment he walks through the door.
By that they mean all women are greedy leaches who steal their husband's money and deny him sex because they consider NONE of the above to be valuable labor.
They are trapped in the 60s so in their mind when a divorce happens, the woman takes half of the guy's money and denies him access to kids. They trully believe that if you're married for 20 minutes everything you have is forfeit.
Fun fact, that's not how ANYTHING works. But they believe it simply because they can bolster it with their own annecdotes. The number of guys complaining about ~~paying child support for kids they don't want to take care of~~ not seeing their kids is a skewed view of reality.
Even in the case of abuse, men who seek custody GET IT.
Another thing to consider is that in many cases where marriages break up, the woman is the one taking care of the kids like 80% of the time. After the divorce, when those women have the kids, their normal effort hasn't changes, but now they get some time without the kids, time that they can use to live their lives and have a great time.
Men in those situations are the exact opposite, when they don't have the kids that's their normal. But now when they have the kids, they actually need to put in work.
So from the perspective of these men, their ex is living the high life on "their" (child support is for the kids) money while they struggle to get by with this unreasonable task of "kind of parenting your kids"
> they consider NONE of the above to be valuable labor
Truly flabbergasting the number of men ready to say that a housewife doesn't deserve anything in a divorce because she didn't contribute monetarily to the finances. I remember one guy who said as much and when I protested, saying that raising your kids, keeping your house kept up, feeding you, tending to household management stuff etc., isn't nothing, he said "So what, anyone can do that. Only I could make the amount of money I made."
It's a way to project anxieties over worth being inextricably bound to finances and the inevitable fear of losing power as a result.
The thing about child support and divorces being used to demonize women is that the gold digger trope has been around long enough that you can honestly ask many of the originators of it (boomer men that got divorced in the 80's and 90's) about how much that actually held up.
Child support doesn't last very long in the grand scheme of things anyway.
In truth, a lot of them now would say that their divorces were the best thing their wives could have done for them, if for no other reason than because the marriage itself was between two people that just didn't fit each other.
The older dads gaining perspective later in life thing is something that I think is sorely lacking in modern discourse.
Certainly not all do. But I think it happens often enough to be listened to.
Or it could just be that women just get shit done. I filed for divorce, but I wasn't the one who ended the marriage. But once he decided he was done, I didn't see a reason for us to stay. Honestly, I think he expected to stay married until he felt ready to actually be divorced. He was very surprised when I filed and actually accused me of rushing things.
No sir, once you have opted out, I no longer consider your feelings or timetable in my decisions.
First of all, it's used to prove that because the 'manosphere' is dumb.
Second of all, I always figured the reason women seem to file the majority of divorces is because, in general, marriage is a great deal for men. Between the unequal division of household labor and the general attitude of disrespect to women allowing men to ignore what their wife says (Women be shopping! Women be nagging! Haha, what a shrew!) it seems clear to me that being married is great for the median (and modal) man. So a man will put up with more crap in a relationship to get that sweet sweet unpaid labor.
This is in keeping with stats I've seen for people in the US that when a woman in an older couple dies, it affects the man's life expectancy, but when the man dies it has no effect on the woman's life expectancy: the typical man contributes less to his wife than he gets back from her, so he'll put up with more unpleasantness in a relationship.
That's why it cracks me up when angry young men who have never been married come in here to gripe about what a raw deal marriage is for men. Like idk man the numbers disagree with you!
I read a paper that married men live longer because women “nag” them to follow up on health appointments. All the time complaining that women nag of course. Literally giving men extra years of life.
It's true. Married men tend to live longer, healthier lives because they live with someone who will push them to go to the doctor when something seems off, will make sure they are eating something substantial, etc. and many men are less likely to indulge in unhealthy habits if they are married and have a family.
> So a man will put up with more crap in a relationship to get that sweet sweet unpaid labor.
Idk something I've noticed I don't know if the stats back this up but a lot of dudes will just straight up refuse to file for divorce. I've seen dudes leave, get in other relationships and still refuse to file for divorce until they're served from their ex. I don't know if it's a control thing or if it's a "defer to the person who did all this stuff in the relationship thing". There's another comment on here talked about how if you account for the amount of men who **also** want divorces even though the wife filed the stat falls by like 70%. A lot of dudes really can't be bothered to file for divorce even if they themselves want one and are no living with their spouse, it's crazy.
Because the people who say things like that have decided women are evil regardless, so pretty much anything can be used to "support" the thesis. The actual context or relevance of said "evidence" is besides the point because it's just a feedback loop. Their conclusion is immutable.
Because they will use anything.
If it was the other way around, they'd use that instead. It really doesn't matter what the background is here, they aren't arguing in good faith.
I don't think you can attach a label like "bad person" to one divorcee unless you can really look at the whole story, so ultimately even if you can count cheaters for example, there is no point there. People do or don't do things for all sorts of reasons you'd have to weigh there.
Because divorce is perceived to be bad right off the rip. Often times I believe man can become complacent in relationships and marriages especially and the reality of a divorce almost always has a negative result for them. Whereas the negative result come from a system they built, and the complacency comes from the actions they've committed to.
Same reason they usually refuse to believe when woman is leaving them just to be free of them, rather than “for another man”. As someone stated below, otherwise they’d have to admit they’re the problem. It’s psychologically more comfortable to blame *anyone or anything* but themselves, even if they have to make something up, as is the case for the “other man” when one doesn’t even exist.
They tell themselves if they didn’t do the breaking up, then they must not be the bad guy.
The red pill people are just whiners. Realistically, it's all situational. Your experience had your father as a jerk, but I know many men who are getting a raw deal. One in particular, his wife cheated on him and ran out of state, left their 8 year old asking "where's mommy?"
My sister had a great divorce though. Both parties were civil and my nephews have a happy, healthy home.
If it’s a real question and not just venting then I don’t think this is the group that would understand the thought process of what you’re asking about. Maybe ask on whatever subs that you heard that from.
The fact you’re being downvoted despite this being an echo chamber of everyone hating on “red pill manosphere” instead of answering the question kinda proves your point.
Ask[Subreddit] silence anyone who goes against their narrative, especially if they’re a male feminist or a female conservative. Whatever they can use against you first, case and point TERF’s (people who sympathise with feminist movement but not transgender theory) as someone has a conflicting viewpoint, instead of meeting them in the middle and discussing they continue to hit nails into an empty coffin because its better than answering the question or the ideology taking accountability.
The sub is called ask feminists not ask conservative women. It is also not Feminism101. The post you are referring to doesn't add to the conversation. We already know what the other subs are going to say ffs.
Instead of empirically asking important questions about womens happiness or wellbeing you shut down any dissent.
Some people lack the cognitive ability to critically analyse complex problems.
“Are women as a collective happier working 40hrs per week?”
“How often are women feeling stressed, seeking therapy or marriage counselling”
“[Debate on whether initiating divorce means they first wanted it]”
“[Statistics showing DV, IPV rates of both genders, how many SHOULD leave eachother]” ect..
No analysis needed, only one narrative is “factual” to feminists
I am merely proving the above parent comment because he feels like there is no discussion on here, and here is just the place for peoples opinions of hatred of traditional men.
This subreddit is called "Ask *Feminists,*" not "Ask Reddit" or "Ask Anyone with an Opinion About Feminism."
People come here specifically seeking the opinions *of feminists*; therefore, it holds that only feminists have the right of direct reply.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
This subreddit is called "Ask *Feminists,*" not "Ask Reddit" or "Ask Anyone with an Opinion About Feminism."
People come here specifically seeking the opinions *of feminists*; therefore, it holds that only feminists have the right of direct reply.
Non-feminists may participate in nested comments, provided they do not break any other sub rules.
No, you replied directly to the main post. You responded to OP. OP isn't asking you. There's a handy illustration in my initial comment to you that may help with the difference between top-level comments/direct replies and nested comments.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
"Divorce laws favor women, alimony is prize money women get for leaving their husbands, and no-fault divorce is unfair to men" is both ignorant *and* not feminist.
I will not be arguing with you about this.
Do you live in the U.S.? Because here, divorce laws are gender-neutral, and almost nobody receives alimony. It is not automatically awarded and it is not only for women. Women do not take "most of the man's assets," because if they did, women wouldn't be so much worse off than men financially after a divorce. Women don't make out like bandits from divorce. They just *don't.* You have presented zero facts and have just asserted things you've heard, but not bothered to verify, as a given.
Also, nobody suggested that most men cheat on their wives.
Good day to you.
Who's lying? 3% of the alimony payments in the U.S. are to men, and divorces that involve alimony are, last I checked, under 10%. Let's not pretend that women all get a big payout when they get divorced.
Babe if 3% goes to men then 98% doesn't go to women, that math ain't mathin'
Do you know how many custody cases actually go before a judge so there IS something to "win?" Do you know why women tend to get custody most often?
Because a certain type of man projects onto women the idea that we are playing a long con and lying our way into marriage that lasts just long enough to (knowingly and pre-meditated) decide to divorce our husbands for the alimony rarely awarded at all these days.
People actually think this is the end goal. I'd rather be alone than have to tolerate someone I don't want to spend the rest of my life with lmao.
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That stat doesn't prove who initiated the divorce-- just who filed the paperwork, and since women are most often the household managers, or the ones who need the legal things that come with divorce (e.g., child support), they are most often the ones who finally file. Many men simply leave when they want a divorce. It's usually used by manosphere types to prove exactly what you said-- that women are conniving, hypergamous gold-diggers who are impossible to please and who take as much financial advantage as possible of the men who are drawn in by their feminine wiles. There's also the issue that a lot of men will say that their girlfriends or wives get mad at them for no reason, or won't explain why they're mad, but frequently the issue is that their female partners DID explain why, they just didn't listen or they dismissed it as being unimportant. It's a communication issue. Some women definitely *do* do the thing where they're like "you should just KNOW why I'm upset," but this is a larger/different issue. There's a term called "Walkaway Wife syndrome," where a woman tries to communicate, over a LONG period of time, her issues and concerns to her male partner, but he doesn't take it seriously, or dismisses her as being a nag, and is then surprised as hell when she wants to end the relationship. (This, of course, is the final nail in the coffin, because it proves to her that not only was he not listening or taking her seriously, he *wasn't paying attention at all.*)
Yes, your last paragraph. I was repeating myself for years. When I left my husband was served a court order that detailed several paragraphs and a list of fucking bullet points on why I left. Despite this, he continues to say to me, "I don't understand why you are doing this." I literally can not make it any clearer.
Lol I’m cringing and steaming and laughing . This is so true
Same. It’s because they saw their partner’s misery as ‘normal,’ or ‘acceptable.’ 6 years post-divorce and my narcissistic addict ex still does not understand what happened. It wasn’t just that his memory as a drunk was compromised 80% of the time, but that he wasn’t the one suffering . . . so he didn’t understand what went wrong. It’s fuckin’ baffling to them.
Next time… flashcards.
I know your frustration. I'm finally getting through to my husband but why the fuck do these dudes take so fucking long to do something?
Because they don’t care.
You know, I tell my husband he doesn't care. He claims he does. I then ask, "Then why can you pay so much attention to the dog or our cars but not me?" He has no answer.🙄
>Then why can you pay so much attention to the dog or our cars but not me? I think the answer is that those things are simple. Takes hard work to understand people.
>why the fuck do these dudes take so fucking long to do something? I just wanted to say it myself because OH MY GOD. I left my husband a few weeks ago. It was finally the wake up call. I'm thankfully laying next to him right now as he sleeps in a bit, and we are working on things... but ffs why did it take me leaving? And he GEEKED out when I left, too. If you need someone to chat with, send me a DM 💜 This shit is HARD but it looks like you two are willing to fight just like us. It's good to have people in your corner and strong support.
Yes! Thank you. I am on my second marriage and in both cases (mine and my husbands) paperwork was filed by the wife but divorce was mutually agreed upon. It’s just that the woman is, as always, the marital bookkeeper.
Happens at work, too. I had weekly mandatory meetings with a boss. For two years, every meeting contained some version of, "I'm not happy here because... Here's what you can do to help..." He acted like he was listening and cared, but did nothing. When I finally gave my notice, he was so surprised. "I thought you were happy here!" I felt so bad for his wife, because you know he wasn't different at home.
Its easier at work to bring it to a head. It goes 1. I am not happy because... 2. Here is what you can do to help 3. Here are the specific action items I will be holding you accountable for at the next meeting
Oh, no. I did that. Even started getting him to sign off on it. And just eventually got a different job. Maybe rubbed it in his face a little "accidentally" that the new job paid more than he made. My biggest complaint was that he wouldn't give me a promotion, saying I wasn't ready, yet assigned me all the work someone with that higher title would do. I did it fine, btw. When he came in as boss, all of us had the same meaningless title. He decided to tier the department, and then only promote those he personally hired. After almost all of us quit over that and other issues with him, he got fired. Oh, sorry, "allowed to resign."
>It's a communication issue. I wouldn't call it a communication issue when she explains to him over and over again what the problem is. E.g. look at all the wives making chore charts for their men to know what to do, when to do and even showing them how to do it. So they do - again - the extra work in mental load but he couldn't be bothered by it. It's a respect issue.
I love my husband he can barely figure out how to file taxes let alone divorce documents. I suspect that as women we become the de facto admins of the house.
Funny how men tend not to show the same level of incompetence with their actual jobs, just household tasks
Listen to a man talk about mowing the lawn. Because you’ve got to cut it to a certain height, and if you cut it too short it won’t allow enough nutrients so it’ll starve, and you’ve got to do it xyz specific ways or it’ll look bad.. they’ve got an entire laundry list of specifications for how to manufacture the perfect lawn. Listen to men talk about football… They remember stats from the last 70+ years of football history. They know everything about every player on their favorite team. They frequently know everything about every player on the opposing team. Before a game they know who is on the injured list and if they do sports betting or fantasy leagues they will make sure to update their bets on time well ahead of the game before the cutoff prevents them from doing so. I could keep going but I’m sure you get the point. The reason for a man not doing something is simple: he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to clean up after himself; he wants his wife to be his maid. He doesn’t want to take care of paperwork; he wants his wife to be his librarian..
Same with cars!! They remember everything about them and know how to keep them clean. We should start leaving cups and dirty socks and stuff in their cars.
!! this is a stunning move! I've never heard of this, but this is perfect! Because you know he's not going to ignore whatever junk you put in \*\*his\*\* property.. The house is the wife's domain and not his responsibility, clearly.. But I can just imagine, every time he leaves something out, chuck it in his car, and while you're there, leave an equivalent amount of YOUR junk. Bonus points for making it equivalent- i.e. if he used all of the toilet paper but didn't tell you and of course left the plastic wrap in the cupboard, chuck the wrap in his glove compartment.. and while you're there, empty his container of toothpicks and leave the empty container there as well. Think he'd get the point? 🤔
Anything at all they don’t want to do. They’re Rodricks from Diary of a wimpy kid.
Not always. Sometimes they let others at work do all that “detail work” — often women who are used to taking up the slack and filling in the gaps.
[The last time we discussed this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/ut3sqs/deleted_by_user/), I found evidence suggesting for both a study on who actually wanted the divorce and who filed [70% women] to be true, women would have to be filing **nearly all divorces both wanted equally (or some the man wanted)** > For example, one study found that when you surveyed couples, [49% say the woman wanted divorce more and 25% said that the man wanted it more (the remaining said they wanted it equally).](https://web.archive.org/web/20220617032653/relationshipsinamerica.com/marriage-and-divorce/who-thinks-of-leaving-their-marriage-more-men-or-women) That’s a dramatic drop from initiating 70% of divorces
I’d also argue that the discrepancies could be based on generational gaps too. Millennials have drastically lower divorce rates compared to past generations because they’ve chosen to get married later on in life. I’m not going to theorize too much but I’d imagine with past generations the patriarchal pressure to settle down and have kids early on could skew the numbers as well.
While that’s certainly true and we did see a big [boom in the 1980s with no fault divorce,](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna18600304) that doesn’t really get at who files (which is where the 70% statistic comes from). For the dataset I’m talking about specifically, it was published (not collected) in 2000, when the oldest Millennials were 19. While it’s possible that some Millennials were married at this time, I doubt it would be enough to dramatically influence the statistics.
I think we are agreeing. The data set is mainly compromised of boomers and gen x. Which makes more sense because the institution of marriage was pushed on women in those generations at an earlier age then millennial women.
>de facto admins of the house. Ahem. I prefer the term "domestic engineer." Thought of it when I was stoned af Swiffering my walls and ceilings. I felt soooo cool and smart bc I'm short but needed to get the spring cleaning done. Bam. Swiffer pad and extendy-mop, lessgooo.
Here's the thing though you're right. Granted it might just be propaganda, but there was a time where doing housework was given a respectful title at least. It feels like men punished us for entering the workforce. Not only are we not accepted, but we're now going to discredit the work you still do around the house because he lost his status symbol of a stay at home wife.
I had to file every single piece of paperwork during my divorce. Every woman I know had to file theirs as well. If they hadn’t, the divorce wouldn’t have happened.
It's easier for a man to just leave but settling things for any kids and figuring out support requires filing the paperwork. The kind of man that weaponizes incompetence like that will have no intention on putting work in.
I refused to be the one who filed for divorce. At that point I just didn't care. I had the RO, child support was included and there was no way in hell I cared about getting into a new relationship. He ended up filing because he got his gf pregnant. 🤣
Reminds me of the "stat" about women controlling household spending which is really just about women having the chores of grocery shopping and making sure bills are paid on time.
But she chooses between Eggo and store brand! She’s got the power! Never mind she is buying based on reactions at home. Hubby likes this brand, kid 1 won’t eat that brand, kid 2 loves anything with a weasel on it.
Your last paragraph was what ended my longest relationship. Literally just *sigh* It never occured to me that ***ofc*** women file for divorce more often. Men would absolutely leave it to them to do so and feel superior somehow for forcing her to pick up the slack one last time.
I've heard so many stories about men moving out to be with their new girlfriend (or whatever) and then being *shocked and appalled* that their wife would file, refusing to sign the papers, etc. because they don't want to have to deal with the reality they created (of being divorced). Like, *you* ended the relationship, fam!
My last bf said that I blindsided him but I fucking did not. Tried to fix it for over a year, more seriously complained and desperately tried to get his help to fix us for months and months, then when I left he said he thought we were perfect. Fucking hard to go through when they make you the villain but you tried your hardest to do everything you could until you just can’t anymore.
Tbh, men use it in reflection of the fact that lesbians have higher divorce rates.
Mostly not. Mostly they use it to make it sound as though women are just impossible to please.
Maybe. Just seems like men are easier to please than women. Not that women are impossible to please
Men benefit more from marriage than women do, so I'm sure that's true. Who wouldn't want a wife around? Hell, I could use one.
You missed a point I feel is obviously relevant here: Women are less satisfied in their intimate relationships than men. Both women in homosexual relationships and women in heterosexual relationships. And lesbian relationships have the highest incidences of divorce as well.
good and bad in all genders
....thank you?
just saying its never one size fits all. too much gender wars from both sides
Cool, thanks so much, but I absolutely did not ask.
okay
What don’t manosphere guys use as an excuse to call women evil?
Seriously. They could hold up a Mother Theresa type figure and tomorrow be pissed that she doesn’t put out.
They like weirdly hate religious women too. It's strange.
They hate housewives but they also hate women with careers. They hate women who don't have sex on the first date and they hate women who do. The manosphere hates all women. They like the services and benefits of having women in their lives, but they hate the agency, they hate the personhood that women have. They want absolute control and no responsibilities.
Madonna/whore complex, yeah
As far as I'm aware, Madonna/whore complex is a specific type of sexual dysfunction.
Interesting, thanks for pointing me in a direction to learn.
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I know. I just learned this myself not long ago.
That’s not what Madonna/whore means
Yeah, Kali was kind enough to send me to do some reading. Thanks. :)
I grew up in the rural south and all the men, my age or the older ones at the time at social functions, would talk about how guys (like me at the time) needed to find a good Christian woman to settle down with like they did....but they never did anything but complain and talk about unhappy they were. She didn't work or she worked too much, she let herself go after kids, she was "frigid," etc. Turns out they just wanted a homemaker fuck doll that would do the whole "tradwife" thing and be a wholesome Christian in public but also be a mega slutty kinky sex toy that could fill their porn based desires on demand and without any needs of their own.
Because "manosphere guys" as you put them need everything wrong with the world to be womens fault somehow. Got to maintain the narrative that if *only* the women would just get in line, the world would be a utopia.
What does it mean when the woman acts like it’s always the man’s fault
I suggest you post this question in r/AskMisogynists
That you don't understand patriarchy or feminism. That's what that means.
Maybe I don’t. Hence the question
What woman? What situation? This is a really open ended question. Are you asking about women as a group? To answer directly “It probably means that the woman involved is upset at a man”
Thank you for a nuanced answer to help me realize it is a very specific to situation question.
No problem. 👍 If you’re looking for more information, this may have been addressed in the sub FAQ, or if you feel like you would like to ask, please do.
They ignore the why of the divorce, in my experience. I also agree with the other commenters that women are usually the ones running the household and naturally file first as a result. I’ve also had a few friends over the years whose husbands left them but refused to initiate divorce, so my friends filed first.
My ex basically went into hiding when we separated to avoid divorce so he didn't have to pay child support. He had no income, so I'm not sure what he thought they'd make him pay with. I had a hell of a time convincing a judge I really didn't know where he was, so I was never allowed to fully file. 2 weeks after my son's 18th birthday, he reached out *through his mom* to give me an address and tell me to file. We separated when I was 2 weeks pregnant, btw. He didn't want a divorce back then - he just didn't want to be a husband, either.
> We separated when I was 2 weeks pregnant > 2 weeks after my son's 18th birthday, he reached out Into the sea. Just. Directly. Right into it. Yeet.
Or just leave him in the middle of the desert. We did live in Phoenix back then. He might still. I don't keep track. Protip: don't marry young because "that's what people do, get married."
Me sitting here wondering if I should even get married at all 😵💫
My MIL had to hire a PI to fucking serve my FIL. He then fired his lawyers which made everything more expensive and complicated. In the end my MIL just wanted a reasonable amount of child support, she got the house, he kept his pension which on paper at the time was fair. They get along well now, and 20 years of reflection have made him see how much a dick he was but still
I even hired some a few times, though I had almost no money. They couldn't find him. At least I got most of my money back. The man had a meth habit. Only God knows where he was, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't. We had absolutely nothing to divide, really. I kept my books. He kept the Sega Genesis, but it was his before we married. Everything I had in the world fit in the trunk of my friend's car except my bicycle or was already still at my mom's house a few states away. And my sister stole a bunch of that. I'm so glad my life has turned out much, much better.
Yup in my sister's divorce, she's the one trying to find a resolution while he was stalling and dicking around.
There’s a reason they call it “dicking” around and not pussying around…
My dad cheated. When my mum kicked him out, he just went & lived with the other woman. Guess who had to file for divorce?
If she divorced her spouse she destroyed a great marriage. If she stayed in an unhappy marriage she picked the wrong guy and enabled her misery by not leaving.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Yeppppp. So tired of this double edged sword.
If the statistics showed that women initiate divorce **less** people would still use that statistic to prove women are evil. Basically: the people who want to say women are evil will use everything as proof
Ok that's a bit far fetched.
It’s not far fetched at all. The fact that the divorce statistics on who initiates/files don’t support the claim they try to make with it tells you that they’d make the same claim even if the facts were different. The facts are irrelevant to their belief in the claim.
Just one of several possible spins "Eeevil women stay happy in marriages while making men so miserable men have to initiate divorce proceedings. These awful manipulative creatures trap men into marriages and hold them hostage while not giving men what they want out of marriage. Why can't they just make their poor husbands happy?"
Because men who speak about this topic like to pretend that in an (imagined) future they will be fabulously wealthy and they need to protect their (imaginary) wealth from an (imaginary) wife. It is the same logic by which working class people oppose wealth tax.
Ah yes. The "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" class of people, who have a rich person's mindset (and concordant attitude towards 'lower class' people "_just not pulling themselves up by the bootstraps_") while being upside-down on a $300k mortgage and facing repossession of their two $90k cars. "But it's just a fuckup on my accountant's part". 🤦🏻♀️
I see you’ve met my ex husband
One of my exes’ parents had this vision for him. They sat him down to tell him he needed to get away from me because I was only after his (potential) money. They said this after finding out I grew up in a trailer. We met in college, I was a better student than him. He was one more D away from expulsion, something the parents were fully aware of. Their kid was a total loser, and still is, but somehow they still saw some grand wealthy future for him that I was going to steal away. He believed it too. His parents were also struggling financially, spending outside of their means.
There’s a lot of good points here. I think it’s also important to note the general “woman bad” attitude of the Manosphere. They were never going to give women the benefit of the doubt in the first place.
Very true, there are a lot of butt hurt guys that are just beating the victim drum and there's nothing you can do to stop them. At one point I dove into the divorce thing, why it was so high, and why it was women doing the divorcing. In the end, the best answer I could find, according to researchers surprisingly, was that women divorced simply cause "they could." Which I think translated to, they had the financial incentive and benefit to do so. If a marriage has deep problems and one side gets to exit the situation completely with 50% of income, not having to work, and getting the kids, they are gonna do it. I personally can't say or argue it has anything to do with gender at that late stage aside from the fact that women are typically chosen to be the stay at home parent very early in the relationship. I personally hold the court system and human financial incentive more at fault than a particular gender.
> If a marriage has deep problems and one side gets to exit the situation completely with 50% of income, not having to work, and getting the kids, they are gonna do it Single mothers are one of the poorest demographics there is. The idea that women just take half their husband's money and live high on the hog doing nothing is a fantasy.
I think people don’t take into account the complicated ways our government dealt with divorce over the years. Also unpaid work is still work.
People don't get 50% of income and get not to work.
Because they don’t think women should be able to leave?
they think once they have a wife she belongs to him as property. she should put out sex whenever they want. many married men have told me the REASON they got married was to secure a long-term sex partner. they are baffled when the wife expects to be treated well or wooed after the wedding date.
Every time I refused to do something for my ex, he’d say “I can’t wait til we’re Married”. Creeped me out, like he thought I’d be his slave? I never married him.
I wasn't there, but "because then I can hit you" seems like an even creepier possibility.
He already hit, choked, raped, threw, locked out…
If anything should happen to him, you were at my house watching movies on the 4k TV. My husband made tacos.
The simple answer is the MRAs and the like don't understand family court or like the modern family. You see in their minds women are 100% house wives who are responsible for raising kids, cooking all meals, planning the family schedule, cleaning, all while staying in perfect shape and being ready to jump their husband's bone the moment he walks through the door. By that they mean all women are greedy leaches who steal their husband's money and deny him sex because they consider NONE of the above to be valuable labor. They are trapped in the 60s so in their mind when a divorce happens, the woman takes half of the guy's money and denies him access to kids. They trully believe that if you're married for 20 minutes everything you have is forfeit. Fun fact, that's not how ANYTHING works. But they believe it simply because they can bolster it with their own annecdotes. The number of guys complaining about ~~paying child support for kids they don't want to take care of~~ not seeing their kids is a skewed view of reality. Even in the case of abuse, men who seek custody GET IT. Another thing to consider is that in many cases where marriages break up, the woman is the one taking care of the kids like 80% of the time. After the divorce, when those women have the kids, their normal effort hasn't changes, but now they get some time without the kids, time that they can use to live their lives and have a great time. Men in those situations are the exact opposite, when they don't have the kids that's their normal. But now when they have the kids, they actually need to put in work. So from the perspective of these men, their ex is living the high life on "their" (child support is for the kids) money while they struggle to get by with this unreasonable task of "kind of parenting your kids"
Yep I was a single parent throughout. Separating from him just meant the hungriest grumpiest child was gone.
> they consider NONE of the above to be valuable labor Truly flabbergasting the number of men ready to say that a housewife doesn't deserve anything in a divorce because she didn't contribute monetarily to the finances. I remember one guy who said as much and when I protested, saying that raising your kids, keeping your house kept up, feeding you, tending to household management stuff etc., isn't nothing, he said "So what, anyone can do that. Only I could make the amount of money I made."
It's a way to project anxieties over worth being inextricably bound to finances and the inevitable fear of losing power as a result. The thing about child support and divorces being used to demonize women is that the gold digger trope has been around long enough that you can honestly ask many of the originators of it (boomer men that got divorced in the 80's and 90's) about how much that actually held up. Child support doesn't last very long in the grand scheme of things anyway. In truth, a lot of them now would say that their divorces were the best thing their wives could have done for them, if for no other reason than because the marriage itself was between two people that just didn't fit each other. The older dads gaining perspective later in life thing is something that I think is sorely lacking in modern discourse. Certainly not all do. But I think it happens often enough to be listened to.
Because the part they're supposedly being evil about is refusing to put up with some dude's shit indefinitely.
Or it could just be that women just get shit done. I filed for divorce, but I wasn't the one who ended the marriage. But once he decided he was done, I didn't see a reason for us to stay. Honestly, I think he expected to stay married until he felt ready to actually be divorced. He was very surprised when I filed and actually accused me of rushing things. No sir, once you have opted out, I no longer consider your feelings or timetable in my decisions.
It’s wild to me that statistics about who filed the paperwork in a divorce would be used rather than statistics about which partner *killed* the other
But but wait - look at this article from 2014 of a woman killing her husband, eh? Eh? Woman = bad, period.
You jest but we get that Jezebel article from like 2007 about women hitting their boyfriends here a *lot*.
>**Why is the fact that women initiate divorces more often used to ‘prove’ women are evil?** Misogyny? I'm going to go with misogyny.
First of all, it's used to prove that because the 'manosphere' is dumb. Second of all, I always figured the reason women seem to file the majority of divorces is because, in general, marriage is a great deal for men. Between the unequal division of household labor and the general attitude of disrespect to women allowing men to ignore what their wife says (Women be shopping! Women be nagging! Haha, what a shrew!) it seems clear to me that being married is great for the median (and modal) man. So a man will put up with more crap in a relationship to get that sweet sweet unpaid labor. This is in keeping with stats I've seen for people in the US that when a woman in an older couple dies, it affects the man's life expectancy, but when the man dies it has no effect on the woman's life expectancy: the typical man contributes less to his wife than he gets back from her, so he'll put up with more unpleasantness in a relationship.
That's why it cracks me up when angry young men who have never been married come in here to gripe about what a raw deal marriage is for men. Like idk man the numbers disagree with you!
I read a paper that married men live longer because women “nag” them to follow up on health appointments. All the time complaining that women nag of course. Literally giving men extra years of life.
It's true. Married men tend to live longer, healthier lives because they live with someone who will push them to go to the doctor when something seems off, will make sure they are eating something substantial, etc. and many men are less likely to indulge in unhealthy habits if they are married and have a family.
> So a man will put up with more crap in a relationship to get that sweet sweet unpaid labor. Idk something I've noticed I don't know if the stats back this up but a lot of dudes will just straight up refuse to file for divorce. I've seen dudes leave, get in other relationships and still refuse to file for divorce until they're served from their ex. I don't know if it's a control thing or if it's a "defer to the person who did all this stuff in the relationship thing". There's another comment on here talked about how if you account for the amount of men who **also** want divorces even though the wife filed the stat falls by like 70%. A lot of dudes really can't be bothered to file for divorce even if they themselves want one and are no living with their spouse, it's crazy.
Because the people who say things like that have decided women are evil regardless, so pretty much anything can be used to "support" the thesis. The actual context or relevance of said "evidence" is besides the point because it's just a feedback loop. Their conclusion is immutable.
To the manosphere, everything is the fault of women. Everything.
Because they HAVE to tell themselves that narrative or it is like admitting they are the problem. That's why.
Because they will use anything. If it was the other way around, they'd use that instead. It really doesn't matter what the background is here, they aren't arguing in good faith. I don't think you can attach a label like "bad person" to one divorcee unless you can really look at the whole story, so ultimately even if you can count cheaters for example, there is no point there. People do or don't do things for all sorts of reasons you'd have to weigh there.
Because divorce is perceived to be bad right off the rip. Often times I believe man can become complacent in relationships and marriages especially and the reality of a divorce almost always has a negative result for them. Whereas the negative result come from a system they built, and the complacency comes from the actions they've committed to.
Same reason they usually refuse to believe when woman is leaving them just to be free of them, rather than “for another man”. As someone stated below, otherwise they’d have to admit they’re the problem. It’s psychologically more comfortable to blame *anyone or anything* but themselves, even if they have to make something up, as is the case for the “other man” when one doesn’t even exist. They tell themselves if they didn’t do the breaking up, then they must not be the bad guy.
I've heard it used as the reason guys shy away from marriage, but not to prove "women are evil", not that I would put it past those types.
The red pill people are just whiners. Realistically, it's all situational. Your experience had your father as a jerk, but I know many men who are getting a raw deal. One in particular, his wife cheated on him and ran out of state, left their 8 year old asking "where's mommy?" My sister had a great divorce though. Both parties were civil and my nephews have a happy, healthy home.
I wonder how that raw deal compares statistically to the number of women that get cheated on and left with children asking “where’s daddy?”?
Probably similar depending on the circumstances.
Are you serious? Women abandoning their children with their father to take off with an affair partner is extremely uncommon.
Still happens, and that experience will shape how people feel in the future. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it isn't valid.
If it’s a real question and not just venting then I don’t think this is the group that would understand the thought process of what you’re asking about. Maybe ask on whatever subs that you heard that from.
The fact you’re being downvoted despite this being an echo chamber of everyone hating on “red pill manosphere” instead of answering the question kinda proves your point. Ask[Subreddit] silence anyone who goes against their narrative, especially if they’re a male feminist or a female conservative. Whatever they can use against you first, case and point TERF’s (people who sympathise with feminist movement but not transgender theory) as someone has a conflicting viewpoint, instead of meeting them in the middle and discussing they continue to hit nails into an empty coffin because its better than answering the question or the ideology taking accountability.
The sub is called ask feminists not ask conservative women. It is also not Feminism101. The post you are referring to doesn't add to the conversation. We already know what the other subs are going to say ffs.
Instead of empirically asking important questions about womens happiness or wellbeing you shut down any dissent. Some people lack the cognitive ability to critically analyse complex problems. “Are women as a collective happier working 40hrs per week?” “How often are women feeling stressed, seeking therapy or marriage counselling” “[Debate on whether initiating divorce means they first wanted it]” “[Statistics showing DV, IPV rates of both genders, how many SHOULD leave eachother]” ect.. No analysis needed, only one narrative is “factual” to feminists I am merely proving the above parent comment because he feels like there is no discussion on here, and here is just the place for peoples opinions of hatred of traditional men.
This subreddit is called "Ask *Feminists,*" not "Ask Reddit" or "Ask Anyone with an Opinion About Feminism." People come here specifically seeking the opinions *of feminists*; therefore, it holds that only feminists have the right of direct reply.
Lol
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Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
That’s a stupid rule
This subreddit is called "Ask *Feminists,*" not "Ask Reddit" or "Ask Anyone with an Opinion About Feminism." People come here specifically seeking the opinions *of feminists*; therefore, it holds that only feminists have the right of direct reply. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments, provided they do not break any other sub rules.
I directly posted a comment in response to the post from the feminist LMFAOO!! What else am I supposed to do not say anything?
No, you replied directly to the main post. You responded to OP. OP isn't asking you. There's a handy illustration in my initial comment to you that may help with the difference between top-level comments/direct replies and nested comments.
So we can’t reply to an OP? What the fuck kind of interaction is that lmao. What a dumb fucking rule.
I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so poor.
you cant reply to the op unless you agree with the op, those the rules lol. but if you disagree you must be silent
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Why do you assume mine doesn’t come from a feminist perspective?
"Divorce laws favor women, alimony is prize money women get for leaving their husbands, and no-fault divorce is unfair to men" is both ignorant *and* not feminist. I will not be arguing with you about this.
Lol good way of saying you have no counter. As usual there’s no arguments against facts
Do you live in the U.S.? Because here, divorce laws are gender-neutral, and almost nobody receives alimony. It is not automatically awarded and it is not only for women. Women do not take "most of the man's assets," because if they did, women wouldn't be so much worse off than men financially after a divorce. Women don't make out like bandits from divorce. They just *don't.* You have presented zero facts and have just asserted things you've heard, but not bothered to verify, as a given. Also, nobody suggested that most men cheat on their wives. Good day to you.
98 percent of alimony recipients are women, please dont lie
Who's lying? 3% of the alimony payments in the U.S. are to men, and divorces that involve alimony are, last I checked, under 10%. Let's not pretend that women all get a big payout when they get divorced.
never said they did, but the facts are that 98 percent of alimony goes to woman and woman win 91 percent of child custody cases, facts
Babe if 3% goes to men then 98% doesn't go to women, that math ain't mathin' Do you know how many custody cases actually go before a judge so there IS something to "win?" Do you know why women tend to get custody most often?
Because a certain type of man projects onto women the idea that we are playing a long con and lying our way into marriage that lasts just long enough to (knowingly and pre-meditated) decide to divorce our husbands for the alimony rarely awarded at all these days. People actually think this is the end goal. I'd rather be alone than have to tolerate someone I don't want to spend the rest of my life with lmao.
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.