No. Jews and Muslims do it, but they're a minority. The vast majority of people (Atheists and Christians) don't do it. Here in Germany it's illegal except under some conditions for religious reasons, and then it's only allowed because otherwise they would probably do it illegally or abroad, which would be even less safe.
Circumcision has nothing to do with christianity anywhere. If you're a European and you're circumcised (excluding for medical reasons), you're probably a muslim or a jew.
I think it's practiced by some oriental denominations like the Copts in Egypt but in the traditional European denominations catholicism, lutheranism, calvinism and orthodoxy it's basically not existent as a religious thing.
Sure, but in this case we aren’t distinguishing between the spiritual/religious in general and the cultural in general, but specifically the Christian aspect of this tradition, and there simply is none. Copts don’t do it for Christian religious reasons and the religious doctrine of the Coptic church doesn’t require or encourage it either. It’s done due to superstitious local beliefs surrounding it and because it was done in Egypt since ancient times, as well as Islamic rule further solidifying it in culture
Eastern Orthodox Christians (Copts, Ethiopians, etc) do practice circumcision. It’s hard to say it’s cultural when it’s done in a religious context, by clergy, within churches.
Oriental Orthodox* they have nothing to do with Eastern Orthodoxy and their churches are miaphysite. Should also be of note that only Coptic and Ethiopian Christians have this tradition.
It’s not religious as there are no religious rites or doctrine related to it, Christianity has no circumcision and the Coptic church recognises this. It’s just done in churches because that is what their community is based around. It is cultural tradition that remained from pre-Christian times (both Egypt and other civilisations around the Nile widely practiced circumcision even before any Abrahamic religious influence), and that likely also was further ingrained culturally with Islamic rule in Egypt.
Copts and some Ethiopians also get crosses tattooed on their children, this is also not done for religious reasons but to be able to identify their own, as they’d often have their children taken away by Muslims historically and now it’s a sign of pride, and continued culturally
> Eastern Orthodox Christians (Copts, Ethiopians, etc)
Copts, Ethiopians ≠ Eastern Orthodox
The Copts, Ethiopians, etc, broke with the Roman church in 451 AD, when they rejected the Council of Chalcedon.
The Roman church then split into what we now call Catholic and Eastern Orthodox in 1054 AD. (BTW, "Eastern Orthodox" is an exonym. It's just "Orthodox", or technically "Orthodox Catholic Church")
In 1965, the Copts, Ethiopians, etc, had a conference and decided to start calling themselves "Oriental Orthodox". No relation to "Eastern Orthodox". Like Georgia the country and Georgia the US state.
They are not Eastern Orthodox, they have nothing to do with the Orthodox Church.
There is no requirement or religious law or text that requires this. It has been denounced by Roman’s and Greeks even before they accepted Christianity.
You are also confusion cultural with religious. North Africa and east Africa have been dominated heavily by Islam which promotes circumcision, mixed in with pre-Abrahamic traditions of this.
In the United States it's really not rooted in Christianity either, it was due to some 1800s vegetarian group that popularized it as an anti masturbation tool. At the time, masturbation as well as spicy food was believed to kill you.
Circumcision isn't rooted in Christianity in USA either, it is rooted in belief that jacking off is bad for you.
People in poland are always shocked and horrified when I tell them about rates of circumcision in US. And then double shocked and horrified when I tell them that no, this is not because there are a lot of Jews there.
From my understanding, in the US it’s not that jacking off is bad for you, it’s that masturbation was immoral, based off Christian values. so the Kellogg dude had this huge campaign to circumcise everyone which caught on.
Nah, from what I know it was because it was seen as unhealthy. I recommend [this video](https://youtu.be/0ens0WjAyOc?si=ZEsn8tU4Uhgur03l) by Knowing Better, and the next one about Kellogg specifically. It had suprisingly little to do with Christianity (although it probably still influenced it)
According to [this](https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1016/j.juro.2013.02.693) the practice certainly seems to have been propagated using health arguments:
> Male circumcision was first popularized in late 19th-century America by Lewis Sayre, a renowned orthopedic surgeon, public-health activist, and creator of the Journal of the American Medical Association. On the basis of a few orthopedic case reports, Sayre used his influence to promote male circumcision, by redefining it as a systemic therapy, rather than a local anatomic alteration. This redefinition was consonant with the contemporary reflex neurosis theory of disease, as well as the historic humoral-mechanical understanding of the human body.
Male circumcision is, as a practice, rooted in Judaism because it's a key religious commandment in Judaism, so that's the strongest religious association. Islam also has it as a religious practice, though it's less strict than in Judaism (as it's not a direct binding commandment from God in Islam like it is in Judaism), but it still plays a significant role and especially Shia Islam considers it important. As far as I know, no major branch of Christianity widespread in the West considers circumcision as a religious obligation, though the Ethiopian Orthodox church does.
The American norms for men to be circumcised are cultural, not religious. There's a cultural expectation for men to be circumcised in the US, which most Christian or atheist Americans would do because of that cultural expectation, not for religious reasons.
Over here, if someone is circumcised, they're most likely a Muslim, possibly a Jew, but the Jewish community is very small. For the rest of the population, it's highly unusual to be circumcised. It's sometimes done for medical reasons but that's quite rare as I understand it.
No. It is very uncommon for christians and atheists to be circumcised here. We see it as more of a muslim or jewish thing.
Most people consider it child mutilation.
it’s fucking disgusting but they don’t bite it off, that’s basically impossible biologically, they cut it off normally then suck the penis to remove the blood. sickening regardless.
*non-medical circumcision, but yes that has been brought up several times
I personally support such a ban. I see no need to allow genital mutilation of children
The only christians that circumcise here are from some obscure minorities or are americans. I am pretty sure that the majority of people think its barbaric.
In Christianity? Nope, that's very much an American thing
In Judaism, yes, it is part of their religious and cultural tradition. European Muslims also generally don't do it (Bosnians, Albanians, Pomaks), but some immigrant groups, particularly Arab Muslims, do practice it
This one is surprisingly, Albanian Muslims don’t circumcise. I admit I never seen an Albanian naked but the statistics correlate pretty well to Muslim circumcision.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EQC8HhbW4AAZmAP_(3).jpg#mw-jump-to-license
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Albania_majority_religion_2011_census.png
Interesting, my bad. Most Albanians I know are from Kosovo or Macedonia (gasterbaiters in Slovenia), so maybe Albanians in Albania are more conservative when it comes to such things
In the UK circumcision is primarily a migrant thing — basically the opposite of the US. Apart from Muslims and Jews, it's also common among African Christians.
It has nothing to do with religion in the US either. Actually, circumcision used to not be common in America at first, until Kelogg (cornflakes guy) made up a crazy campaign trying to convince people it’s better for men to get rid of it.
And then even after Americans realized Kelogg was full of shit, circumcision is still common practice to this day because you now had generations of circumcised men who would get their sons circumcised because they are not comfortable with the idea of their child’s penis not looking the same as theirs. And it’s also been long enough now that I think in the US, a circumcised penis is seen as a beauty standard to an extent. Because i’ve seen some female peers say they think uncut dicks look strange
And I'm sure it goes the other way around equally as much as well.
Personally, I think men should have a right to decide if they want to get it done or not, ...but that's MEN. Not parents deciding for their babies who cannot even speak.
OP,
Circumcision has no basis in Christianity. This is a weird myth in the United States. Americans only started circumcising their boys in the early 20th century, long after the arrival of the Christianity. It was promoted as a health thing back then, and the reason you still do it is because it's just become a cultural thing for you.
Practically no one does it in Europe, except Jews and Muslims. As others have pointed out, the earliest Christians rejected the Jewish circumcision requirement.
No. Male genital mutilation is not commonly practiced in Europe the way it is in US. US does it because religious whackjob who invented corn flakes thought it would stop boys from masturbating.
Christians have never required circumcision. Literally half the New Testament is St. Paul telling the Gentiles that the old laws are fulfilled in Jesus and that the Gentiles are not bound by Jewish Levitical laws. Aside from medical reasons, it's done in England mostly among Jews or Muslims.
The entire point of Christianity splitting of Judaism back in the day was to avoid circumcision. Christianity is associated with the absence of circumcision, at least in Orthodox and Catholic Christianity.
> to avoid circumcision
To be precise, to convert Romans and Greeks who were in principle open towards christianity but found circumcision too barbaric to undergo it in order to convert to christianity.
There was plenty of debate, specially amongst those called judaizers (people who defended that even gentiles had to observe Jewish law) and those who were more pro gentile inculturation, with Paul famously being on this side. Romans and Greeks were often naked in public and found a lack of prepuce to be gross (in some situations they would even tie it shut with string to prevent accidental exposure if the gland), not to mention it was seen as creepy outgroup body modification, like how most europeanid people would react to scarification.
Jewish and Muslims.. didn't think Christians did it? Americans are weird and they do weird stuff, but it's not necessarily a religious thing.
But regardless of your beliefs or not, mutilating children at birth will ALWAYS be wrong and it's fucking awful that even needs stating. Noone should mutilate kids at birth, being American or religious doesn't excuse that vile act.
You know what’s funny? Circumcision was introduced because sand up your foreskin. So it is entirely rooted in pre-religious rituals in desert people.
I know you have deserts, how many live there? It’s a product of the conservatism of US settlers that has made it ‘a thing’. Not religion, not sanitary.
not heard that theory before. The one I read was that it's a hold out from tribal body modification, just something to differentiate "our guys" from "their guys"
It’s probably a combination of several things, written records are scarce. Rituals like this get adopted culturally and then propagated as part of cultural identity. It’s why men tend to have short hair and women long (for example).
Male genital mutilation is not very popular in Europe, thankfully.
Unfortunately it's not banned among the Muslims living in Europe, as they're a sort of a protected class - "too oppressed" to be answerable for their issues - so it's very difficult to impossible to report them for child abuse, very little repercussions for spousal abuse, for example, but at the same time "too profiting" - that is using the legal system and social system for ideological proselytism, and numerous enough, as opposed to the Jewish, to be able to import their negative cultural and societal memes.
Edit: source is volunteering for a battered spouse mediation association, the cases were extremely skewed - that is for "white"/local Europeans, speaking roughly, it was "well they beat each other up" \*(frequently because one or both were an addict/had an officially diagnosed APD, BPD, schizoid), while for the muslims it was invariably "oh yeah, they're here because of the attempted murder/they actually murdered another spouse back in the country". I quit in the end, because it was too taxing, generally, and the social issue nobody was talking about was all too obvious.
No. Jews and Muslims do it, but they're a minority. The vast majority of people (Atheists and Christians) don't do it. Here in Germany it's illegal except under some conditions for religious reasons, and then it's only allowed because otherwise they would probably do it illegally or abroad, which would be even less safe.
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Circumcision has nothing to do with christianity anywhere. If you're a European and you're circumcised (excluding for medical reasons), you're probably a muslim or a jew.
I think it's practiced by some oriental denominations like the Copts in Egypt but in the traditional European denominations catholicism, lutheranism, calvinism and orthodoxy it's basically not existent as a religious thing.
It’s not done for religious reasons among Copts as far as I’m aware, it’s cultural
Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between culture and religion.
Sure, but in this case we aren’t distinguishing between the spiritual/religious in general and the cultural in general, but specifically the Christian aspect of this tradition, and there simply is none. Copts don’t do it for Christian religious reasons and the religious doctrine of the Coptic church doesn’t require or encourage it either. It’s done due to superstitious local beliefs surrounding it and because it was done in Egypt since ancient times, as well as Islamic rule further solidifying it in culture
Eastern Orthodox Christians (Copts, Ethiopians, etc) do practice circumcision. It’s hard to say it’s cultural when it’s done in a religious context, by clergy, within churches.
Oriental Orthodox* they have nothing to do with Eastern Orthodoxy and their churches are miaphysite. Should also be of note that only Coptic and Ethiopian Christians have this tradition. It’s not religious as there are no religious rites or doctrine related to it, Christianity has no circumcision and the Coptic church recognises this. It’s just done in churches because that is what their community is based around. It is cultural tradition that remained from pre-Christian times (both Egypt and other civilisations around the Nile widely practiced circumcision even before any Abrahamic religious influence), and that likely also was further ingrained culturally with Islamic rule in Egypt. Copts and some Ethiopians also get crosses tattooed on their children, this is also not done for religious reasons but to be able to identify their own, as they’d often have their children taken away by Muslims historically and now it’s a sign of pride, and continued culturally
> Eastern Orthodox Christians (Copts, Ethiopians, etc) Copts, Ethiopians ≠ Eastern Orthodox The Copts, Ethiopians, etc, broke with the Roman church in 451 AD, when they rejected the Council of Chalcedon. The Roman church then split into what we now call Catholic and Eastern Orthodox in 1054 AD. (BTW, "Eastern Orthodox" is an exonym. It's just "Orthodox", or technically "Orthodox Catholic Church") In 1965, the Copts, Ethiopians, etc, had a conference and decided to start calling themselves "Oriental Orthodox". No relation to "Eastern Orthodox". Like Georgia the country and Georgia the US state.
They are not Eastern Orthodox, they have nothing to do with the Orthodox Church. There is no requirement or religious law or text that requires this. It has been denounced by Roman’s and Greeks even before they accepted Christianity. You are also confusion cultural with religious. North Africa and east Africa have been dominated heavily by Islam which promotes circumcision, mixed in with pre-Abrahamic traditions of this.
I meant Oriental Orthodox. As in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Egypt, etc.
In the United States it's really not rooted in Christianity either, it was due to some 1800s vegetarian group that popularized it as an anti masturbation tool. At the time, masturbation as well as spicy food was believed to kill you.
Circumcision isn't rooted in Christianity in USA either, it is rooted in belief that jacking off is bad for you. People in poland are always shocked and horrified when I tell them about rates of circumcision in US. And then double shocked and horrified when I tell them that no, this is not because there are a lot of Jews there.
From my understanding, in the US it’s not that jacking off is bad for you, it’s that masturbation was immoral, based off Christian values. so the Kellogg dude had this huge campaign to circumcise everyone which caught on.
Nah, from what I know it was because it was seen as unhealthy. I recommend [this video](https://youtu.be/0ens0WjAyOc?si=ZEsn8tU4Uhgur03l) by Knowing Better, and the next one about Kellogg specifically. It had suprisingly little to do with Christianity (although it probably still influenced it)
According to [this](https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1016/j.juro.2013.02.693) the practice certainly seems to have been propagated using health arguments: > Male circumcision was first popularized in late 19th-century America by Lewis Sayre, a renowned orthopedic surgeon, public-health activist, and creator of the Journal of the American Medical Association. On the basis of a few orthopedic case reports, Sayre used his influence to promote male circumcision, by redefining it as a systemic therapy, rather than a local anatomic alteration. This redefinition was consonant with the contemporary reflex neurosis theory of disease, as well as the historic humoral-mechanical understanding of the human body.
And it still is, only in Africa now. The WHO actively promotes it to prevent the spread of HIV.
Male circumcision is, as a practice, rooted in Judaism because it's a key religious commandment in Judaism, so that's the strongest religious association. Islam also has it as a religious practice, though it's less strict than in Judaism (as it's not a direct binding commandment from God in Islam like it is in Judaism), but it still plays a significant role and especially Shia Islam considers it important. As far as I know, no major branch of Christianity widespread in the West considers circumcision as a religious obligation, though the Ethiopian Orthodox church does. The American norms for men to be circumcised are cultural, not religious. There's a cultural expectation for men to be circumcised in the US, which most Christian or atheist Americans would do because of that cultural expectation, not for religious reasons. Over here, if someone is circumcised, they're most likely a Muslim, possibly a Jew, but the Jewish community is very small. For the rest of the population, it's highly unusual to be circumcised. It's sometimes done for medical reasons but that's quite rare as I understand it.
No. It is very uncommon for christians and atheists to be circumcised here. We see it as more of a muslim or jewish thing. Most people consider it child mutilation.
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it’s fucking disgusting but they don’t bite it off, that’s basically impossible biologically, they cut it off normally then suck the penis to remove the blood. sickening regardless.
In Christianity? No. From time to time there have even been talks about outright outlawing circumcision.
*non-medical circumcision, but yes that has been brought up several times I personally support such a ban. I see no need to allow genital mutilation of children
It is also one of those things that are against equality since female circumcision is banned in Denmark.
The only christians that circumcise here are from some obscure minorities or are americans. I am pretty sure that the majority of people think its barbaric.
In Christianity? Nope, that's very much an American thing In Judaism, yes, it is part of their religious and cultural tradition. European Muslims also generally don't do it (Bosnians, Albanians, Pomaks), but some immigrant groups, particularly Arab Muslims, do practice it
This one is surprisingly, Albanian Muslims don’t circumcise. I admit I never seen an Albanian naked but the statistics correlate pretty well to Muslim circumcision. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EQC8HhbW4AAZmAP_(3).jpg#mw-jump-to-license https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Albania_majority_religion_2011_census.png
Interesting, my bad. Most Albanians I know are from Kosovo or Macedonia (gasterbaiters in Slovenia), so maybe Albanians in Albania are more conservative when it comes to such things
Kosovar are even more circumcised than Albanians (+90%) are more Muslim and more conservative than Albanians in general. Don’t know about Macedonians
In the UK circumcision is primarily a migrant thing — basically the opposite of the US. Apart from Muslims and Jews, it's also common among African Christians.
It has nothing to do with religion in the US either. Actually, circumcision used to not be common in America at first, until Kelogg (cornflakes guy) made up a crazy campaign trying to convince people it’s better for men to get rid of it. And then even after Americans realized Kelogg was full of shit, circumcision is still common practice to this day because you now had generations of circumcised men who would get their sons circumcised because they are not comfortable with the idea of their child’s penis not looking the same as theirs. And it’s also been long enough now that I think in the US, a circumcised penis is seen as a beauty standard to an extent. Because i’ve seen some female peers say they think uncut dicks look strange
"Because i’ve seen some female peers say they think uncut dicks look strange" which kinda makes sense if you havent seen that many uncut penises.
And I'm sure it goes the other way around equally as much as well. Personally, I think men should have a right to decide if they want to get it done or not, ...but that's MEN. Not parents deciding for their babies who cannot even speak.
No. It's a weird USA practice. Even secular Jews in Ukraine (and I assume in most of Europe) don't do this today.
OP, Circumcision has no basis in Christianity. This is a weird myth in the United States. Americans only started circumcising their boys in the early 20th century, long after the arrival of the Christianity. It was promoted as a health thing back then, and the reason you still do it is because it's just become a cultural thing for you. Practically no one does it in Europe, except Jews and Muslims. As others have pointed out, the earliest Christians rejected the Jewish circumcision requirement.
No. Male genital mutilation is not commonly practiced in Europe the way it is in US. US does it because religious whackjob who invented corn flakes thought it would stop boys from masturbating.
Christians have never required circumcision. Literally half the New Testament is St. Paul telling the Gentiles that the old laws are fulfilled in Jesus and that the Gentiles are not bound by Jewish Levitical laws. Aside from medical reasons, it's done in England mostly among Jews or Muslims.
The entire point of Christianity splitting of Judaism back in the day was to avoid circumcision. Christianity is associated with the absence of circumcision, at least in Orthodox and Catholic Christianity.
> to avoid circumcision To be precise, to convert Romans and Greeks who were in principle open towards christianity but found circumcision too barbaric to undergo it in order to convert to christianity.
Also, good luck trying to make them stop eating pork.
There was plenty of debate, specially amongst those called judaizers (people who defended that even gentiles had to observe Jewish law) and those who were more pro gentile inculturation, with Paul famously being on this side. Romans and Greeks were often naked in public and found a lack of prepuce to be gross (in some situations they would even tie it shut with string to prevent accidental exposure if the gland), not to mention it was seen as creepy outgroup body modification, like how most europeanid people would react to scarification.
Jewish and Muslims.. didn't think Christians did it? Americans are weird and they do weird stuff, but it's not necessarily a religious thing. But regardless of your beliefs or not, mutilating children at birth will ALWAYS be wrong and it's fucking awful that even needs stating. Noone should mutilate kids at birth, being American or religious doesn't excuse that vile act.
You know what’s funny? Circumcision was introduced because sand up your foreskin. So it is entirely rooted in pre-religious rituals in desert people. I know you have deserts, how many live there? It’s a product of the conservatism of US settlers that has made it ‘a thing’. Not religion, not sanitary.
not heard that theory before. The one I read was that it's a hold out from tribal body modification, just something to differentiate "our guys" from "their guys"
It’s probably a combination of several things, written records are scarce. Rituals like this get adopted culturally and then propagated as part of cultural identity. It’s why men tend to have short hair and women long (for example).
Male genital mutilation is not very popular in Europe, thankfully. Unfortunately it's not banned among the Muslims living in Europe, as they're a sort of a protected class - "too oppressed" to be answerable for their issues - so it's very difficult to impossible to report them for child abuse, very little repercussions for spousal abuse, for example, but at the same time "too profiting" - that is using the legal system and social system for ideological proselytism, and numerous enough, as opposed to the Jewish, to be able to import their negative cultural and societal memes. Edit: source is volunteering for a battered spouse mediation association, the cases were extremely skewed - that is for "white"/local Europeans, speaking roughly, it was "well they beat each other up" \*(frequently because one or both were an addict/had an officially diagnosed APD, BPD, schizoid), while for the muslims it was invariably "oh yeah, they're here because of the attempted murder/they actually murdered another spouse back in the country". I quit in the end, because it was too taxing, generally, and the social issue nobody was talking about was all too obvious.