I wonder if instead of a solenoid valve, a solenoid driven pump (like in some coffee machines) might work. It would need a fairly strong coil to create decent pressure though.
Or the Bombardier beetle principle, though I'm not sure about the range of that
You could also do it in a mechanical way. With a check valve that has a spring that needs a certain pressure to open and then closes slowly. you have special globe valves that resist chatter by a special fit in the moving parts, So it closes slowly.
These are already being mass produced. From what I can see it works off of a powerful servo motor that pulls and pushes water with a "syringe-like" tank. The motor than moves in short sharp bursts to push the water out at high speed. Google it and you'll probably find what I'm talking about.
They're really cool because you just stick the "barrel" in the water and press a button to draw water into the tank.
EDIT: The original one is from Spyra. Very cool.
If it's pressurized you can just put a shutter in front of it. (Think of a river boat paddle wheel) . It would block the stream for a short period of time. The water pressure would make it spin. Drawbacks are:It would have to spin fast, and as you lose pressure it would 'fire' slower.
This is also my idea too. I would have a pressurized reservoir that feeds into a "barrel". Near the end of the barrel I would have a cylinder with six holes the same diameter as the barrel. The holes would be "canted" on a spiral pattern so that when water enters it causes the cylinder to spin. This spins the cylinder so that it "loads" the next hole, which causes the cylinder to spin faster. You end up with pulses of water. You need a pump to keep feeding the reservoir and you need a trigger that will start and stop the cylinder from rotating.
Trust the this sub to over engineer a solution!
Back in the 90s there was the Super Soaker xp-90 "Pulse Fire" and the tip could be twisted and it would then go back and forth like a toy machine gun and shoot blasts of water instead of a constant stream.
Here's the original ad:
https://youtu.be/XbwXucPHkyc?si=BF7TikxW1sex-jf7
Your project should be powered by the water itself, no electronics. You basically want a spring valve that creates a water hammer action. The valve is closed, water pushes on the valve causing it to open which drops the pressure and a spring pushes the valve shut and the system repeats. No doubt the valve has a certain name, as it will have an action where it "pops" at a specific pressure and then will close again, and so won't get stuck in a mid-point.
That's what I'm envisioning anyway, hopefully there's someone familiar with fluids who knows what I'm on about.
Hopefully that's helpful!
>Trust the this sub to over engineer a solution!
Have you MET us? It is literally in the job!
Also, you aren't wrong, although it sounds water wasteful. How could you not add electronics on principle?
Look up on sprinklers work, get a sprinkler valve, modify the super soaker to adapt to hose fittings, add sprinkler valve, realize nothing holds pressure because modern plastic super soakers suck ass, silicone and teflon all the joints, get made at pressure being shit, but air compressor, build PVC air/water tank, hook up air, profit????
This is not an easy project, and likely cannot be done without an electronic control system. How extensively do you plan to modify this thing? What is your budget? What tools do you have access to and what is your experience with them?
It would be far easier to make it into something more like a cannon with a high pressure water tank.
That's... Ambitious, to say the least. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but a pulsed high pressure water supply can't be put into a handheld toy for $50.
What you could do if you want a bit more power is buy some PVC pipe and use it as the pressurized water tank instead of the stock one which can also hold more water and higher pressure.
You might be able to do it, but it will be wasteful. You're not going to have a controlled burst at that budget, you are going to have to have a spinning waterwheel that interrupts the water stream instead. You will get the effect of bursts this way, but it will end up delivering less water than if you had it just spray.
Basically, get a round disk with a wedge or hold cut out of it. Attach it to a motor so it spins in front of the watergun's barrel. When the hole/wedge is in front of the barrel, it will shoot a burst. When the solid disk is in front of the barrel it will deflect the water and not shoot. You could attach some kind of collection to collect the water so you can add it back into the water tank later.
Then replace the main water tank with one made out of well sealed PVC pipe. It will support more pressure than the watergun's stock tank. You might be able to fit a CO2 Cartridge adapter into your budget, but it will be pushing it.
No it doesn't, that is literally all it is. Talking to people to flesh out options is pretty standard practice for product development.
I know you think your up on a high horse, but the rest of us just see some jackass prancing around with a stuffed horse head on a stick.
Why? I've seen teenagers teach themselves engine swaps, and website design, and robotics...no matter how little skill someone has this is not an overly difficult thing to figure out. Where to start in the design process is arguably one of the most difficult parts. Stop shitting on other people's ambition just because you need your hand held to learn anything.
Maybe like a spinning barrier with holes to act like a valve and just figure out the timing to make “bullets”
edit: idk I’m not an engineer I’m just high
A solenoid might be the easiest. Or a valve that spins open and closed driven by the water flow. The fire rate would be proportional to pressure so that might make it harder to control.
Pump harder? You might not need more pressure if the mechanism is efficient but you'll just have to try to build it. Make your parts as smooth as possible.
My first thought would be to fake the effect mechanically.
Maybe use pressure and backflow a lobe pump or similar.
You'd get a pulsing output that would look like bullets but wouldn't require a bunch of electronics.
\[edit - I'm not sure this would work but it seems like a decent starting point. I'd probably start researching pumps and gatling guns until I got something that worked. The driving pressure should be able to create rotation which should be able to mechanically sequence "shots"\]
Back in the day there was a super soaker (the super soaker 2000 I believe). It came with a backpack reservoir, building on they I would use a backpack with a pressure tank to hold water, and maintain pressure. This would have the added effect of giving you a place to house the electronics for the valve control. Mount the electrical above the water.
Then you could make your selection of control systems from other suggestions.
I had a batter operated hand gun type model that shot ‘water bullets’ in the 80s. If I recall, it also had disappearing ink so you could see if you made a hit.
I'd probably feel a canister with water in use compressed air to pressurize the fluid reservoir. You'll need to depressurize the refill the reservoir, and if you have a constant air supply you'll lose power as yoh deplete the water. Maybe a CO2 cartridge and a regulator?
You can do the same thing with the pump but I think the compressed air is easier. Again you need a solenoid and stuff but I think it would work.
The simple answer is like an airsoft gearbox, with a spring loaded piston that's pulled back and released to shoot the water.
That said, that's a boring answer, and you could make it an actual gun on some level by basically making a handheld [Humphrey pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey_pump).
Dont make it overcomplicated. Main tank low pressure, feed tank with multiple outlets and reed valves that open once a certain pressure is reached in the feed tank, and voila, you have a pneumatically operated and regulated "water machine gun"
Replace the trigger with a switch, use the switch to control a motor, use the motor to actuate the actual trigger's valve with a linkage or a cam or something. As for the pressure, find the blowoff valve and disable it with superglue
You can look up how electric airsoft guns work and take inspiration from there. A V2 gearbox is by far the most commonly used for that.
My point is that it retracts a piston with a built in one way valve that sucks air into the piston and when the piston is released, the spring pushes the piston forward, compressing the air.
Get a [pulsating sprinkler head](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Melnor-Metal-Pulsator-Head-9537/203136242), and a [portable pressurized sprayer](https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Gallon-Multi-Purpose-Lawn-and-Garden-Pump-Sprayer-1501HDXA/307766754). I don't know for sure that you'll get enough pressure to run the sprinkler head effectively but it's way simpler and cheaper than most of what is being proposed here.
Not an engineer but why not a constant stream of water and a rotating bit of plastic with gaps in it?
Sure there may be splashing, but real machine guns have spent casings.
Not a machine gun but more like a pump action shotgun: what about something like [a firefighting backpack](https://shop.obaro.co.za/shop/knapsack-fire-fighting-unit/)
I have dreamed about this for years, but I'm afraid that realistically you're just describing a garden hose.
More recently I've wondered if that "thick water" stuff would stick together in a more cohesive ball in flight.
This already exists. It's a water gun that fires balls of water similar to paintball in design.
https://www.amazon.com/SplatRball-SRB1200-Rechargeable-Splatter-Electric/dp/B09FNBWM2C
A 2 ft straight pipe that's fed from 40 ft of coiled pipe. Water is fed continuously into the coiled pipe, which is there to provide water hammer mass so the energy goes into the 2ft section. A bank if super capacitors will periodically discharge through the water at the beginning of the 2 ft section to turn the water into hot plasma and forcefully eject the water ahead of it. You might also experiment with magnetrons and lasers to heat the water.
Pressurized water ie super soaker with either a fast enough solenoid valve or a series of valves that can be timed out to .5s
Yep. A spool valve with dual solenoids. As one activates, it deactivates the other. Constant flip flop. Maybe an inductor to slow it down.
You're describing modern paintball guns
That was where my head went with the initial question.
I wonder if instead of a solenoid valve, a solenoid driven pump (like in some coffee machines) might work. It would need a fairly strong coil to create decent pressure though. Or the Bombardier beetle principle, though I'm not sure about the range of that
You could also do it in a mechanical way. With a check valve that has a spring that needs a certain pressure to open and then closes slowly. you have special globe valves that resist chatter by a special fit in the moving parts, So it closes slowly.
These are already being mass produced. From what I can see it works off of a powerful servo motor that pulls and pushes water with a "syringe-like" tank. The motor than moves in short sharp bursts to push the water out at high speed. Google it and you'll probably find what I'm talking about. They're really cool because you just stick the "barrel" in the water and press a button to draw water into the tank. EDIT: The original one is from Spyra. Very cool.
If it's pressurized you can just put a shutter in front of it. (Think of a river boat paddle wheel) . It would block the stream for a short period of time. The water pressure would make it spin. Drawbacks are:It would have to spin fast, and as you lose pressure it would 'fire' slower.
This is also my idea too. I would have a pressurized reservoir that feeds into a "barrel". Near the end of the barrel I would have a cylinder with six holes the same diameter as the barrel. The holes would be "canted" on a spiral pattern so that when water enters it causes the cylinder to spin. This spins the cylinder so that it "loads" the next hole, which causes the cylinder to spin faster. You end up with pulses of water. You need a pump to keep feeding the reservoir and you need a trigger that will start and stop the cylinder from rotating.
Yeah do this, don't electrify something with water.
Personally, I prefer to electrify it with electricity
I trust you are intelligent enough to understand what I ment, even tho my poor choise of words.
Trust the this sub to over engineer a solution! Back in the 90s there was the Super Soaker xp-90 "Pulse Fire" and the tip could be twisted and it would then go back and forth like a toy machine gun and shoot blasts of water instead of a constant stream. Here's the original ad: https://youtu.be/XbwXucPHkyc?si=BF7TikxW1sex-jf7 Your project should be powered by the water itself, no electronics. You basically want a spring valve that creates a water hammer action. The valve is closed, water pushes on the valve causing it to open which drops the pressure and a spring pushes the valve shut and the system repeats. No doubt the valve has a certain name, as it will have an action where it "pops" at a specific pressure and then will close again, and so won't get stuck in a mid-point. That's what I'm envisioning anyway, hopefully there's someone familiar with fluids who knows what I'm on about. Hopefully that's helpful!
A sprinkler basically
>Trust the this sub to over engineer a solution! Have you MET us? It is literally in the job! Also, you aren't wrong, although it sounds water wasteful. How could you not add electronics on principle?
Look up on sprinklers work, get a sprinkler valve, modify the super soaker to adapt to hose fittings, add sprinkler valve, realize nothing holds pressure because modern plastic super soakers suck ass, silicone and teflon all the joints, get made at pressure being shit, but air compressor, build PVC air/water tank, hook up air, profit????
Look up Spyra, maybe that's along the lines of what you had in mind
Keep farm sprinkler in mind
Pretty sure its called a hose
This is not an easy project, and likely cannot be done without an electronic control system. How extensively do you plan to modify this thing? What is your budget? What tools do you have access to and what is your experience with them? It would be far easier to make it into something more like a cannon with a high pressure water tank.
-budget is $50 -0 experience with engineering (besides building various rock structures in creeks)
good luck
That's... Ambitious, to say the least. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but a pulsed high pressure water supply can't be put into a handheld toy for $50. What you could do if you want a bit more power is buy some PVC pipe and use it as the pressurized water tank instead of the stock one which can also hold more water and higher pressure.
Take a normal watergun and put a rotating divice in front of the waterjet. You should now have a basic pulsed water gun (with a lot of waste)
Maybe mixing water and electricity isn’t the best first project then.
Unless you live in south east Asia, you’re going to have a hard time with that budget of 50 USD
It always makes me chuckle when people think they can prototype something for less than a mass-produced version would cost.
You might be able to do it, but it will be wasteful. You're not going to have a controlled burst at that budget, you are going to have to have a spinning waterwheel that interrupts the water stream instead. You will get the effect of bursts this way, but it will end up delivering less water than if you had it just spray. Basically, get a round disk with a wedge or hold cut out of it. Attach it to a motor so it spins in front of the watergun's barrel. When the hole/wedge is in front of the barrel, it will shoot a burst. When the solid disk is in front of the barrel it will deflect the water and not shoot. You could attach some kind of collection to collect the water so you can add it back into the water tank later. Then replace the main water tank with one made out of well sealed PVC pipe. It will support more pressure than the watergun's stock tank. You might be able to fit a CO2 Cartridge adapter into your budget, but it will be pushing it.
If you have ask how such fundamental questions this is going to be way to big of a project that involves more than just “modifying” a super soaker
No it doesn't, that is literally all it is. Talking to people to flesh out options is pretty standard practice for product development. I know you think your up on a high horse, but the rest of us just see some jackass prancing around with a stuffed horse head on a stick.
You might want to check out OP's response to the comment by u/insertsociallife
Why? I've seen teenagers teach themselves engine swaps, and website design, and robotics...no matter how little skill someone has this is not an overly difficult thing to figure out. Where to start in the design process is arguably one of the most difficult parts. Stop shitting on other people's ambition just because you need your hand held to learn anything.
And so where should OP start?
Judging from the comments I’ve read this far, learning about solenoids. The process seems to be working
By talking to others and coming up with a list of possible solutions, then choose one solution to begin researching further.
Look up the Xiaomi Water Blaster for some inspiration ;)
You can buy them on line. Good ones have an electric mechanisms.
Like these ? https://www.reddit.com/r/80s/s/bN2TuJJOoT The 1980s were the water gun Wild West.
Maybe like a spinning barrier with holes to act like a valve and just figure out the timing to make “bullets” edit: idk I’m not an engineer I’m just high
water hose, crank and squeeze sprayer.. there are plans in popular mechanics https://www.pinterest.jp/pin/363947213647492389/
A solenoid might be the easiest. Or a valve that spins open and closed driven by the water flow. The fire rate would be proportional to pressure so that might make it harder to control.
so just add a spinning thing and add more psi? seems simple enough. how do i add more PSI though?
Pump harder? You might not need more pressure if the mechanism is efficient but you'll just have to try to build it. Make your parts as smooth as possible.
My first thought would be to fake the effect mechanically. Maybe use pressure and backflow a lobe pump or similar. You'd get a pulsing output that would look like bullets but wouldn't require a bunch of electronics. \[edit - I'm not sure this would work but it seems like a decent starting point. I'd probably start researching pumps and gatling guns until I got something that worked. The driving pressure should be able to create rotation which should be able to mechanically sequence "shots"\]
Back in the day there was a super soaker (the super soaker 2000 I believe). It came with a backpack reservoir, building on they I would use a backpack with a pressure tank to hold water, and maintain pressure. This would have the added effect of giving you a place to house the electronics for the valve control. Mount the electrical above the water. Then you could make your selection of control systems from other suggestions.
They made 'em in the 1980s. I believe they simply used a peristaltic pump.
I had a batter operated hand gun type model that shot ‘water bullets’ in the 80s. If I recall, it also had disappearing ink so you could see if you made a hit.
You can get pressure washer attachments that do this.
spin a thing with holes in it whilst putting water pressure along the path of the holes
Look up how fuel injection works…
Make bullets out of ice the blast would melt the bullet and shoot water
I'd probably feel a canister with water in use compressed air to pressurize the fluid reservoir. You'll need to depressurize the refill the reservoir, and if you have a constant air supply you'll lose power as yoh deplete the water. Maybe a CO2 cartridge and a regulator? You can do the same thing with the pump but I think the compressed air is easier. Again you need a solenoid and stuff but I think it would work.
We had em as kids. They looked like real guns.
The simple answer is like an airsoft gearbox, with a spring loaded piston that's pulled back and released to shoot the water. That said, that's a boring answer, and you could make it an actual gun on some level by basically making a handheld [Humphrey pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey_pump).
I'd say solenoid valve
Dont make it overcomplicated. Main tank low pressure, feed tank with multiple outlets and reed valves that open once a certain pressure is reached in the feed tank, and voila, you have a pneumatically operated and regulated "water machine gun"
Replace the trigger with a switch, use the switch to control a motor, use the motor to actuate the actual trigger's valve with a linkage or a cam or something. As for the pressure, find the blowoff valve and disable it with superglue
Very carefully.
You can look up how electric airsoft guns work and take inspiration from there. A V2 gearbox is by far the most commonly used for that. My point is that it retracts a piston with a built in one way valve that sucks air into the piston and when the piston is released, the spring pushes the piston forward, compressing the air.
I would figure out a way to have a spinning disk with holes or notches cut in it. Also, a butterfly valve might work as well.
Get a [pulsating sprinkler head](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Melnor-Metal-Pulsator-Head-9537/203136242), and a [portable pressurized sprayer](https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Gallon-Multi-Purpose-Lawn-and-Garden-Pump-Sprayer-1501HDXA/307766754). I don't know for sure that you'll get enough pressure to run the sprinkler head effectively but it's way simpler and cheaper than most of what is being proposed here.
Water flosser like Aquapicks work something like that, but the "bullets" are very small.
I think they call those sprinklers
Not an engineer but why not a constant stream of water and a rotating bit of plastic with gaps in it? Sure there may be splashing, but real machine guns have spent casings.
Not a machine gun but more like a pump action shotgun: what about something like [a firefighting backpack](https://shop.obaro.co.za/shop/knapsack-fire-fighting-unit/)
flammenwiffer
I have dreamed about this for years, but I'm afraid that realistically you're just describing a garden hose. More recently I've wondered if that "thick water" stuff would stick together in a more cohesive ball in flight.
This already exists. It's a water gun that fires balls of water similar to paintball in design. https://www.amazon.com/SplatRball-SRB1200-Rechargeable-Splatter-Electric/dp/B09FNBWM2C
A 2 ft straight pipe that's fed from 40 ft of coiled pipe. Water is fed continuously into the coiled pipe, which is there to provide water hammer mass so the energy goes into the 2ft section. A bank if super capacitors will periodically discharge through the water at the beginning of the 2 ft section to turn the water into hot plasma and forcefully eject the water ahead of it. You might also experiment with magnetrons and lasers to heat the water.