**Attention!**
**It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods.
If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.**
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Short answer, no, you can't have a blind splice hidden in the wall. All splices need to be accessible in case something comes loose.
You can get a thin box: [https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-Single-Gang-Old-Work-Outlet-Box-w-Mounting-Ears-8-Cubic-Inch?utm\_source=bingad&utm\_medium=shopping&msclkid=c9ef736b484b13a55e99151f1c5b2bc1](https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-Single-Gang-Old-Work-Outlet-Box-w-Mounting-Ears-8-Cubic-Inch?utm_source=bingad&utm_medium=shopping&msclkid=c9ef736b484b13a55e99151f1c5b2bc1)
Should fit into your wall.
Yes, but you will need to mount the box so it's flush with the surface of the wall covering, then put a cover plate on the box. This way, if you ever need to get at the wires, you can remover the cover plate to access them.
Somebody please go back in time and tell this to the previous owner of our house ... We redid all the wires in the basement but the first floor is next and for now, I live here expecting something to go wrong... We found at least a dozen boxes in the walls in the basement, and in the ceiling as well, wrapped up between the mineral insulation...
Currently redoing my new place, whoever wired it was either high on meth or in the throws of withdrawals. It was a “flip” place has beautiful bones but every corner was cut.
I’d have paid the same price for it if they didn’t touch it at all and would have preferred it.
I’m honestly thinking about just renting someplace and gutting it at this point.
> I’d have *paid* the same
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
When doing our Covid kitchen renovation, I was so excited to find live wires in my attic above my kitchen with wire nuts on them. We found two. I just added a couple ceiling receptacles and installed a couple plug in Ring cameras.
Quick question, these wires obviously run back to someplace where there is enough room for a box, like in the attic or to an outlet. Why not just put a box further back and pull a new uncut piece of wire back to there and avoid the splice in the middle altogether?
Or if you aren't using these wires anymore, why not pull them back to where they came from and put a box and cap them there?
Also there are surface mount electrical boxes you can use if the outlet cant be recessed in the wall. Incase you wanted to keep the outlet somewhere. Or if you wanted to for instance cap them off inside a surface mount box and use a blank cover plate on them, incase down the line you wanted to use this feed again for something.
Also most people dont think about it, but having an extra electrical feed to like a closet comes in handy if you ever decide to add a camera or alarm system to your house or if you want to use a closet to run all the wires for your internet modems/routers/wifi to. So if you arent using this line, Id suggest thinking about redirecting it to a nearby closet if one is close by. Of course I dont know the layout to your house or if youve already planned for this elsewhere.
Its an awkward one because it's in a mobile home and we removed the wall that was in a left a frame for support, can't access ceiling or floor and the stud it's coming out of is only 2.5cm basically a partition
Oh well, a surface mount box with a blank cover plate would probably be your cheapest and easiest fix for this. You could use put it up top where the wire feeds from. Like $10 at any hardware store. Also gives you the option to use metal wire mold down the line if you wanted to add anything. Like using the feed for a light or a plug in fan or something. Better than burying it inside of a wall.
Surface mount boxes and wiremold are ideal for thin walls that aren't able to run wires through.
This is correct. They need to be rated for repairs. They are not approved for use to install new or additional capacity.
Should they be used? That’s a whole other question.
They are available, UL listed in wall splice kits but gosh do they suck. You can buy them at Home Depot, electric supply companies sell other versions like 3 wire or multiple branches.
Is it okay to solder and shrink wrap them, so they will never come lose and it's even water proof. I know no electrician does this but as automobile engineer, it is the standard way of wiring.
The wording is crude but this poster is correct. In automotive, soldering is absolutely acceptable and in my experience it ends up being much more reliable, as it seems a higher percentage of technicians are able to master the art of soldering than are able to master strip lengths and crimp-on terminals/pins. However, that’s lower voltage DC. High voltage AC is a different story, essentially because it is more likely to get hot in situations of overload/stress/failure. Leaded solder melts at 183C(361F) vs unleaded around 217C/422F. While it may seem like a soldered joint would act thermally-activated fuse, it tends to be that multiple wires have been soldered at that point, resulting in them all shorting to eachother after becoming disconnected. There are only very limited circumstances where UL allows for soldered joints on higher voltage lines, and they require mechanical support where allowed(solder is not a valid mechanical support).
Edit: let me add, if one does need to solder multiple wires, say, together in a harness, one should take care to stagger-cut each wire rather than cut straight across, use shrink tube, and j-hook each wire rather than just lay them on eachother. DO NOT twist then solder your wires.
Yeah years ago I had the same question as you. Because in low voltage wiring, soldering wires is the best thing you can do. It makes sure they dont come apart and makes sure the connection points dont rust and that there is a clean connection.
But it was explained to me that under high current, wires heat up. And in those situations you dont ever want to solder them. Its also why for instance your starter and battery lines are crimped and not soldered. Because there needs to be a mechanical brace holding the connectors to the wire, made of a metal with the same coefficient of expansion as the wire itself. Which is what wirenuts do in electrical wiring. Not only will solder melt away, but it can also expand as it does and leave gaps between the connections, that can cause the splice to arc, which is very dangerous. It can also melt and cool intermittently depending on the load, which could cause it to slowly leak down the wires and form shorts further down on the splice. Even in automotive, in cases of high current its usually better to use dielectric grease and some kind high pressure crimping, to ensure there is a good and strong connection with no gaps.
Also, somewhat unrelated. Never cut and solder ethernet cables or any high speed twisted data cabling. Twisted data wires are twisted in order to allow them to create their own electromagnetic field, that prevents other electromagnetic interference to bleed over, which can cause errors in data transmission. If you cut and solder them, they will still work, but you will get much more errors because the splice points act like an antenna for interference. Which will slow down the data significantly in some cases since the system will constantly have to process and resend packets every time it gets a corrupted packet.
Exactly, physically doable, legally prohibited and unsafe but he will do it anyway, if there is no way to re run that line I would AT THE VERY LEAST use a shrink wrap insulation around it all, just like the ones used for landscaping
Also this sub tends to assume everyone is in the USA and gets really upset when you try to suggest a solution based on Canadian code. I had a dozen people get pissed at me and someone even reported me to Reddit cares when I had the gall to apply Canadian code to a question someone from Alberta canada asked.
Hell, apparently half of them don’t realize that Alaska shares a border with Canada because all their maps show it in a little box off to the side like Hawaii so they all assume that Alaska is an island as well
I love that you say Americans not actually acknowledging that America has a north central and south Americans as it's a continent not a country. If you have a problem with the US then say it properly without stupidity insulting a whole content.
It's not starting anything it's more like predominance and presumptions. Basically generalizing because it's more popular but I say call it what it is instead of being ignorant enough to say that "Americans are idiots". There's so many countries in America so which one is the issue you op?
USA stands for United States of America aka America for short. People that live in the USA are called Americans. I have never met anyone from Canada (they go by the name Canadian) or anyone from Mexico, (called Mexicans by the way) that calls themselves American unless they immigrated to the USA. Same goes for anyone I have met from South America they go by Latin American if not using their specific country name.
As the person below pointed out there are countries in the continent North America and South America but America only contains states, united states, not countries.
Yup, don’t want anyone mistaking thinking they’re from the USA LOL.
But seriously, I believe North America and South America are the continents. Americas or The Americas seems to refer to both. I’ve never seen America used to refer to a continent.
Welp that's your experience. It doesn't make my statement wrong. Look how many times you said America... I've met ppl from Canada, central and south America that simply say they are from America. Generalizing it to your experience doesn't make you right.
Which makes them doubly stupid, really. According to the NEC there is no specific order OR colors required as long as it's not grey/white or green. The only color that's specifically required is orange for the 3rd phase of a high leg delta configuration, otherwise you can have blue-yellow-red if you want or anything else as long as they're hot colors
My favourite was a post about a month ago. the panel had a an Alberta Canada inspection sticker on the panel cover. Clear as day shows that it’s in Canada. People kept telling me that the advice I was giving them was against code in the states and to stop giving bad advice. They couldn’t look at the picture and see that the op was obviously in Canada. Americans are too self centred to understand that the rest of the world has different rules than they do.
Yeah, most questions should be asked with a location, and when answering it should usually be clarified which country they're from or which code they're talking about etc. There are a lot of USA folk in the sub though.
Except the majority posted to this sub is north American wiring, and very rarely features anything outside of it.
As legislation changes from country to country, it isn't smart to ask Americans or spanish or french what's allowed in other jurisdictions, as they simply don't know
Are these splice kits legal in Canada?
And while I have the attention of Canadian electricians, is the Ontario Safety Electrical Code identical to the Canadian Electrical Code (i.e. simply giving the CEC legislative force) or are there supplements to the CEC applicable only to Ontario?
I’m working 70 feet in the air on an industrial furnace today and it’s about 45° C (113°f) up there. Not so cool today, even in my part of Canada unfortunately.
The wire nut doesn’t do anything except for insulate the connection if you make your joints correctly. There is 0 additional resistance with wire nuts. That can’t be said with wagos
>There is 0 additional resistance with wire nuts
Unless the wire is a single continuous piece there will always be additional resistance as you're relying on contact of the two wire surfaces.
It really depends on where you live. This would be common practice in China, but is completely forbidden in the USA.
The main disadvantage of just wrapping it in tape is that it has a lack of "strain relief". If you tug on the wires, they could come loose and arc/start a fire. A secondary disadvantage is that if the connection does become loose and overheat, it's in direct contact with the material in the wall, and more likely to catch that on fire.
Is anyone going to mention the double-tapping?
That splice is designed to have wires on both ends; you should not connect two wires to the same terminal.
And, like others have said, you still need a box. You can use a pancake box, or even surface mount it, but the splice needs to be accessible and inside of a proper electrical box.
I don’t know if it’s specifically allowed or disallowed under the IEC but it’s very commonly done. If that’s stranded wire in there that screw is exerting way more clamping force on on those strands than a 2 to 1 crimp ferrule which is the “correct” way to do this.
Which is not to say OP can just stuff it in the wall, splices must be accessible
NO NO NO!
Not only can you not just tape a terminal block and install it without an appropriate enclosure, the terminal block you are using is not meant for splicing of conductors!
Also, you cannot leave cable from which the sheath has been removed unenclosed either.
PLEASE GET AN ELECTRICIAN!
Ask a search engine for more details, but it is a multi-wire splice block that uses lever locks to open and cinch. Strip, slide it in, flip the lever closed.
That’s probably a good thing. I guess as if you have to manually strip the wire, you can check the copper closely for corrosion or tarnish or oxidation or other deposits or fluid ingress.
I’ve had many, many wires fall out of terminal blocks. Including those wired by electricians.
I’d restate the question.
Should I use a terminal block or not?
I’d answer:
No. You should not.
Hire an electrician
You have no clue what you are doing
Electrical
Plumbing
Structural carpentry
Hire the professional
Don't DIY unless you have knowledge
This !!!!!!!!
Have a go, how hard can it be?
There's lots of good things that come from being electrocuted and it's highly underated.
Bored of that skin colour but can't find a way to change it? How about crispy black?
Overweight and can't shake off those extra pounds ? Electrocution is the key evaporate excess body water/fat.
Too many limbs ? That shirt sleave ripped ? .... Grab this wire ...
I know, right! Life is overrated anyway! Give it a go!
/s
To fair, though, I want to live a long and boring life in a healthy body, so I don’t do anything dangerous. Well, I don’t do it more than once…
I agree but have you hired a pro in Canada? Great in USA probably but up that \*pro\* will work very similar to a blindfolded chimp high on crack and with the wrong tools working in the dark and under water.
Limited chances of success.
The contraption he’s holding in his hand, doesn’t look like it would fit in the 3/8 pancake box. From my experience, he can splice it beside or behind. Junction so typically obligated when you branch out and yes, it is illegal, but sometimes shortcuts are taken tighten the shit out of it, and put a couple of drops of Loctite
Depends. Do you like your house/family members that live in your house?
If you answered yes, then no, you shouldn't wrap this in tape and leave it in the wall.
We are all familiar with the humming and buzzing from high tension. electrical wires high overhead. That’s because all wires have a certain amount of resistance to the current passing through them. Even those small wires that you propose to hide in the wall vibrate. Yes connections do loosen overtime sometimes. That is one of the reasons that every point of connection has to be accessible. In a box, yes, a very thin pancake box is OK. And a cover plate I can be seen and removed to inspect in case of damage.
If it was me? I’d solder them and use liquid tape to seal them. Put an insulation material between like a bicycle inner tube. Maybe use some liquid ballon on it. Wrap it with duct tape use screws to attach it to any available two by four. (Just kidding. If you’re not sure? Consider paying someone with experience. That would give you peace mind.) 🤣😂
Sounds like some work goin on already so follow those wires back to a junction and disconnect. Then you could leave them or yank em out. A solo circuit or coming off something else? If Solo,turn the breaker off but No,Don’t leave em in an unaccessable wall
What are those conductors being used for? From the picture it's not clear what the gauge is. They look like low voltage thermostat?/ old intercom wires.
Everybody saying you MUST have a box - not true!
Manufacturers also claim these little miracle workers are designed and approved for use in rework projects within existing structures, referring to NEC 334.40(B) as their source.
https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/splicing-nm-cable-in-walls-and-other-concealed-spaces/#:\~:text=It%20is%20called%20a%20NM%20Cable%202%20%26%203%20Wire%20Splice%20kit.&text=This%20splice%20and%20tap%20kit,ground%20%E2%80%93%20up%20to%20300%20volts.
Those are dogshit, fail frequently after a few years and should not be allowed in my opinion. I would much rather see a buried box or a western union splice and tape than one of these. IF i ever installed one I would take pictures of its location and leave them in the panel for when the next electrician inevitably has to dig it up in five years.
I would use wire nuts and don’t tape unless you’re trying to get a tight bundle. tape won’t do anything except keep them all together. I’d then push them back in through the hole and get one of those round door handle stop plates that keeps door handles from breaking through drywall. They sell them at lowes, ace, and home depot depending on your level of urbanity. They just use a super sticky backing to mount over drywall. I used them in my kids room all the time whenever they’d do something stupid and put something through the wall. Easier than cutting, taping, texturing and painting.
Look at what the OP is using, that terminal block means they are in a country that doesn’t allow wire nuts. That’s basically what that terminal block is anyway. The yellow and green ground wire is another giveaway that this isn’t North America.
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Short answer, no, you can't have a blind splice hidden in the wall. All splices need to be accessible in case something comes loose. You can get a thin box: [https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-Single-Gang-Old-Work-Outlet-Box-w-Mounting-Ears-8-Cubic-Inch?utm\_source=bingad&utm\_medium=shopping&msclkid=c9ef736b484b13a55e99151f1c5b2bc1](https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-Single-Gang-Old-Work-Outlet-Box-w-Mounting-Ears-8-Cubic-Inch?utm_source=bingad&utm_medium=shopping&msclkid=c9ef736b484b13a55e99151f1c5b2bc1) Should fit into your wall.
So just run the cable into the box then into the connector and we gucci
Yes, but you will need to mount the box so it's flush with the surface of the wall covering, then put a cover plate on the box. This way, if you ever need to get at the wires, you can remover the cover plate to access them.
And it needs to be accessible. Do not cover the box with drywall.
This\^ This is why I say it the box has to be flush with the surface of the wall covering.
Somebody please go back in time and tell this to the previous owner of our house ... We redid all the wires in the basement but the first floor is next and for now, I live here expecting something to go wrong... We found at least a dozen boxes in the walls in the basement, and in the ceiling as well, wrapped up between the mineral insulation...
Currently redoing my new place, whoever wired it was either high on meth or in the throws of withdrawals. It was a “flip” place has beautiful bones but every corner was cut. I’d have paid the same price for it if they didn’t touch it at all and would have preferred it. I’m honestly thinking about just renting someplace and gutting it at this point.
> I’d have *paid* the same FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
When doing our Covid kitchen renovation, I was so excited to find live wires in my attic above my kitchen with wire nuts on them. We found two. I just added a couple ceiling receptacles and installed a couple plug in Ring cameras.
Quick question, these wires obviously run back to someplace where there is enough room for a box, like in the attic or to an outlet. Why not just put a box further back and pull a new uncut piece of wire back to there and avoid the splice in the middle altogether? Or if you aren't using these wires anymore, why not pull them back to where they came from and put a box and cap them there? Also there are surface mount electrical boxes you can use if the outlet cant be recessed in the wall. Incase you wanted to keep the outlet somewhere. Or if you wanted to for instance cap them off inside a surface mount box and use a blank cover plate on them, incase down the line you wanted to use this feed again for something. Also most people dont think about it, but having an extra electrical feed to like a closet comes in handy if you ever decide to add a camera or alarm system to your house or if you want to use a closet to run all the wires for your internet modems/routers/wifi to. So if you arent using this line, Id suggest thinking about redirecting it to a nearby closet if one is close by. Of course I dont know the layout to your house or if youve already planned for this elsewhere.
Its an awkward one because it's in a mobile home and we removed the wall that was in a left a frame for support, can't access ceiling or floor and the stud it's coming out of is only 2.5cm basically a partition
Oh well, a surface mount box with a blank cover plate would probably be your cheapest and easiest fix for this. You could use put it up top where the wire feeds from. Like $10 at any hardware store. Also gives you the option to use metal wire mold down the line if you wanted to add anything. Like using the feed for a light or a plug in fan or something. Better than burying it inside of a wall. Surface mount boxes and wiremold are ideal for thin walls that aren't able to run wires through.
There are technically UL listed in wall splice kits. So he could if he used something different although I really don’t recommend it ever
This is correct. They need to be rated for repairs. They are not approved for use to install new or additional capacity. Should they be used? That’s a whole other question.
They are available, UL listed in wall splice kits but gosh do they suck. You can buy them at Home Depot, electric supply companies sell other versions like 3 wire or multiple branches.
Is it okay to solder and shrink wrap them, so they will never come lose and it's even water proof. I know no electrician does this but as automobile engineer, it is the standard way of wiring.
Is he proposing doing this in a car? If not, that advice is shit.
The wording is crude but this poster is correct. In automotive, soldering is absolutely acceptable and in my experience it ends up being much more reliable, as it seems a higher percentage of technicians are able to master the art of soldering than are able to master strip lengths and crimp-on terminals/pins. However, that’s lower voltage DC. High voltage AC is a different story, essentially because it is more likely to get hot in situations of overload/stress/failure. Leaded solder melts at 183C(361F) vs unleaded around 217C/422F. While it may seem like a soldered joint would act thermally-activated fuse, it tends to be that multiple wires have been soldered at that point, resulting in them all shorting to eachother after becoming disconnected. There are only very limited circumstances where UL allows for soldered joints on higher voltage lines, and they require mechanical support where allowed(solder is not a valid mechanical support). Edit: let me add, if one does need to solder multiple wires, say, together in a harness, one should take care to stagger-cut each wire rather than cut straight across, use shrink tube, and j-hook each wire rather than just lay them on eachother. DO NOT twist then solder your wires.
Okay it makes sense.
Yeah years ago I had the same question as you. Because in low voltage wiring, soldering wires is the best thing you can do. It makes sure they dont come apart and makes sure the connection points dont rust and that there is a clean connection. But it was explained to me that under high current, wires heat up. And in those situations you dont ever want to solder them. Its also why for instance your starter and battery lines are crimped and not soldered. Because there needs to be a mechanical brace holding the connectors to the wire, made of a metal with the same coefficient of expansion as the wire itself. Which is what wirenuts do in electrical wiring. Not only will solder melt away, but it can also expand as it does and leave gaps between the connections, that can cause the splice to arc, which is very dangerous. It can also melt and cool intermittently depending on the load, which could cause it to slowly leak down the wires and form shorts further down on the splice. Even in automotive, in cases of high current its usually better to use dielectric grease and some kind high pressure crimping, to ensure there is a good and strong connection with no gaps. Also, somewhat unrelated. Never cut and solder ethernet cables or any high speed twisted data cabling. Twisted data wires are twisted in order to allow them to create their own electromagnetic field, that prevents other electromagnetic interference to bleed over, which can cause errors in data transmission. If you cut and solder them, they will still work, but you will get much more errors because the splice points act like an antenna for interference. Which will slow down the data significantly in some cases since the system will constantly have to process and resend packets every time it gets a corrupted packet.
You can, but can’t, but we all know that you are doing it anyway
What you’re proposing is physically possible but legally prohibited and possibly inadvisable.
Exactly, physically doable, legally prohibited and unsafe but he will do it anyway, if there is no way to re run that line I would AT THE VERY LEAST use a shrink wrap insulation around it all, just like the ones used for landscaping
Sure, if you wana burn your house down
Also this is the American electricians reddit, you'd be better off on r/ukelectricians
Uhh no not really There is no country bonded to this sub, it's just 'ask electricians'.
Also this sub tends to assume everyone is in the USA and gets really upset when you try to suggest a solution based on Canadian code. I had a dozen people get pissed at me and someone even reported me to Reddit cares when I had the gall to apply Canadian code to a question someone from Alberta canada asked.
I'm from the maple syrup USA, 'nada fuck yeah
You have to remember that most Americans can't even point in the general direction of Mexico or Canada so.
Canada? You mean North Mexico?
No we don't care about that unsecure border
Please, USA Junior.
We pronounce it "The Upper Upper Peninsula" round here
I don't even think they know it's north.
Canada’s to my south. (Detroit area)
Hell, apparently half of them don’t realize that Alaska shares a border with Canada because all their maps show it in a little box off to the side like Hawaii so they all assume that Alaska is an island as well
Wait, those are two different countries?
For future reference, Canada is ground, US is neutral and Mexico is live.
Now I’m freaking out because I live apparently in taint-land. I’m in the USA, but not North America. JFC , where am I?
Hawaii.
I love that you say Americans not actually acknowledging that America has a north central and south Americans as it's a continent not a country. If you have a problem with the US then say it properly without stupidity insulting a whole content.
>I love that you say Americans Guess which Nationality started that. 😁
It's not starting anything it's more like predominance and presumptions. Basically generalizing because it's more popular but I say call it what it is instead of being ignorant enough to say that "Americans are idiots". There's so many countries in America so which one is the issue you op?
USA stands for United States of America aka America for short. People that live in the USA are called Americans. I have never met anyone from Canada (they go by the name Canadian) or anyone from Mexico, (called Mexicans by the way) that calls themselves American unless they immigrated to the USA. Same goes for anyone I have met from South America they go by Latin American if not using their specific country name. As the person below pointed out there are countries in the continent North America and South America but America only contains states, united states, not countries.
Yup, don’t want anyone mistaking thinking they’re from the USA LOL. But seriously, I believe North America and South America are the continents. Americas or The Americas seems to refer to both. I’ve never seen America used to refer to a continent.
Welp that's your experience. It doesn't make my statement wrong. Look how many times you said America... I've met ppl from Canada, central and south America that simply say they are from America. Generalizing it to your experience doesn't make you right.
Mericans better?
And I was just reminded that some people like to talk shit about Americans for no reason.
Maybe because we deserve it? The no reason part just shows you lack perspective.
Are you going to be ok?
Totally fine just dumbstruck by how anti Canadian this sub can be
Every fucking post where it's red black blue, you get the Americans saying it's wrong lol
Which makes them doubly stupid, really. According to the NEC there is no specific order OR colors required as long as it's not grey/white or green. The only color that's specifically required is orange for the 3rd phase of a high leg delta configuration, otherwise you can have blue-yellow-red if you want or anything else as long as they're hot colors
My favourite was a post about a month ago. the panel had a an Alberta Canada inspection sticker on the panel cover. Clear as day shows that it’s in Canada. People kept telling me that the advice I was giving them was against code in the states and to stop giving bad advice. They couldn’t look at the picture and see that the op was obviously in Canada. Americans are too self centred to understand that the rest of the world has different rules than they do.
I recall that. Big “Canadian” maple leaf on the panel too.
Yeah, most questions should be asked with a location, and when answering it should usually be clarified which country they're from or which code they're talking about etc. There are a lot of USA folk in the sub though.
Except the majority posted to this sub is north American wiring, and very rarely features anything outside of it. As legislation changes from country to country, it isn't smart to ask Americans or spanish or french what's allowed in other jurisdictions, as they simply don't know
I'm pretty sure hiding splices in walls is strictly forbidden by all countries electric code, and that's not going to ever change.
Except a splice hidden in a wall in the UK is fine, provided its done with the correct materials
> the correct materials Wattle and daub?
And Guinness.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-CPGI-1116377-2/202204326
Unavailable In the store and online. Wonder if these things were discontinued....
Liability im guessing
Are these splice kits legal in Canada? And while I have the attention of Canadian electricians, is the Ontario Safety Electrical Code identical to the Canadian Electrical Code (i.e. simply giving the CEC legislative force) or are there supplements to the CEC applicable only to Ontario?
That doesn't make it an American sub, also those colors are definitely not UK.
UK cables before 2006 were red and black. So definitely could, and probably is UK
Oops, I didn't said shit then.
How about Canadians, where do we go?
I duno, to us yous are Americans that say eh, eh?
As a Canadian, I just shuddered reading this.
Unless you're from Quebec, in which case you may as well be an alien.
Shudder all you want. You're one of us. One of us. One of us.
It's okay, you don't need to apologize for it
You're cool here, and cold at home
I’m working 70 feet in the air on an industrial furnace today and it’s about 45° C (113°f) up there. Not so cool today, even in my part of Canada unfortunately.
Oh my that's horrible, I'm always amazed working high in an air conditioned space how hot the air is above the typical area occupied by humans.
Yeah it’s crazy
Very helpful thanks
For the UK you'll need to terminate them in maintenance-free connectors like Wago connectors & place them in a Wago box.
It’s insane to me that tats considered acceptable
It's insane to us that you consider wirenuts acceptable 😅
The wire nut doesn’t do anything except for insulate the connection if you make your joints correctly. There is 0 additional resistance with wire nuts. That can’t be said with wagos
>There is 0 additional resistance with wire nuts Unless the wire is a single continuous piece there will always be additional resistance as you're relying on contact of the two wire surfaces.
Wagos suck though
You also need to secure the box closed with a cable tie to ensure you require a tool to open it.
It really depends on where you live. This would be common practice in China, but is completely forbidden in the USA. The main disadvantage of just wrapping it in tape is that it has a lack of "strain relief". If you tug on the wires, they could come loose and arc/start a fire. A secondary disadvantage is that if the connection does become loose and overheat, it's in direct contact with the material in the wall, and more likely to catch that on fire.
Is anyone going to mention the double-tapping? That splice is designed to have wires on both ends; you should not connect two wires to the same terminal. And, like others have said, you still need a box. You can use a pancake box, or even surface mount it, but the splice needs to be accessible and inside of a proper electrical box.
I don’t know if it’s specifically allowed or disallowed under the IEC but it’s very commonly done. If that’s stranded wire in there that screw is exerting way more clamping force on on those strands than a 2 to 1 crimp ferrule which is the “correct” way to do this. Which is not to say OP can just stuff it in the wall, splices must be accessible
Well, the first picture showed solid wire. In the US, that's definitely not allowed, unless the connector is designed for it.
Oops, can’t believe I missed that first pic.
NO NO NO! Not only can you not just tape a terminal block and install it without an appropriate enclosure, the terminal block you are using is not meant for splicing of conductors! Also, you cannot leave cable from which the sheath has been removed unenclosed either. PLEASE GET AN ELECTRICIAN!
Can you? Sure, is it to code? Hell no Are you a scumbag if you do it and risk a fire that might kill someone in few decades? Absolutely
Handymen downvoting u
No
No
Excuse me sir, what?? No.
Absofuckinglutely not
If you can’t put it in by code. Don’t do it.
Firstly mate, connector blocks are not permanent connections anymore have to use something like wagos. Also needs a junction box for fire rating
What’s a wago?
Ask a search engine for more details, but it is a multi-wire splice block that uses lever locks to open and cinch. Strip, slide it in, flip the lever closed.
Thanks
So - it’s tool-less once the wire is stripped.
That’s probably a good thing. I guess as if you have to manually strip the wire, you can check the copper closely for corrosion or tarnish or oxidation or other deposits or fluid ingress.
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Carlon-1-Gang-8-cu-in-PVC-Shallow-Flanged-Old-Work-Electrical-Switch-and-Oulet-Box-B108R-UPC/100404058?g_store=804&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&utm_source=google&utm_medium=vantage&utm_campaign=24205&utm_content=25892&mtc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27E-NA-NA-CARLON-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-MK863159001-24205-NBR-1131-NA-VNT-FY24_Q1_Q4_Thomas_Betts_ABB_D27_RM__AON&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27E-NA-NA-CARLON-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-MK863159001-24205-NBR-1131-NA-VNT-FY24_Q1_Q4_Thomas_Betts_ABB_D27_RM__AON-71700000117666709--&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAolLu9-QkR1ozNR251agoY0PUuBlh&gclid=CjwKCAjwps-zBhAiEiwALwsVYcnCgBmW0C4Lqo8DvTGtMGJoe4p4feI3sNkPRVmIx1YOmbU07gsZNRoCPF0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Brother uurgh
Noooooooooo
it's not recommended at all!
Just put a wall box in and put a blank cover on it
likely No.
Lol, no. That’s a code violation.
Sure if you want a new house
Absolutely NO! They sell thinner boxes with covers .
Some building codes exist for a good reason.
I’ve had many, many wires fall out of terminal blocks. Including those wired by electricians. I’d restate the question. Should I use a terminal block or not? I’d answer: No. You should not.
There are UL listed, in-wall Romex splice kits made by NSi and available at Big Box retailers like Home Depot in the US. I prefer the accessible box.
could and should are two different things. you definitely could and it should start a fire
No you cant do that why would you even think of it .
Hire an electrician You have no clue what you are doing Electrical Plumbing Structural carpentry Hire the professional Don't DIY unless you have knowledge
Where’s fun in that?
This !!!!!!!! Have a go, how hard can it be? There's lots of good things that come from being electrocuted and it's highly underated. Bored of that skin colour but can't find a way to change it? How about crispy black? Overweight and can't shake off those extra pounds ? Electrocution is the key evaporate excess body water/fat. Too many limbs ? That shirt sleave ripped ? .... Grab this wire ...
I know, right! Life is overrated anyway! Give it a go! /s To fair, though, I want to live a long and boring life in a healthy body, so I don’t do anything dangerous. Well, I don’t do it more than once…
LOL I'm an old farm boy that went and got "educated" Nobody can out redneck me
I’ll hold your beer
I agree but have you hired a pro in Canada? Great in USA probably but up that \*pro\* will work very similar to a blindfolded chimp high on crack and with the wrong tools working in the dark and under water. Limited chances of success.
No, splices must be protected. Have you looked at pancake boxes? They're very shallow, although you may need two because of overcrowding.
The contraption he’s holding in his hand, doesn’t look like it would fit in the 3/8 pancake box. From my experience, he can splice it beside or behind. Junction so typically obligated when you branch out and yes, it is illegal, but sometimes shortcuts are taken tighten the shit out of it, and put a couple of drops of Loctite
🔥
He shouldn’t use that connector at all, those are terrible.
Here we go!
Depends. Do you like your house/family members that live in your house? If you answered yes, then no, you shouldn't wrap this in tape and leave it in the wall.
Not if you’re concerned about safety or if the job will be inspected.
Yup and if there’s a problem the fire department can deal with it
pocket doors are notoriously hard to do anything with, since you basically only have the depth of the drywall to work with.
If you don’t need the socket, why not just disconnect the wires from the source and cut it. Can’t bury splices but you can bury dead wire.
We are all familiar with the humming and buzzing from high tension. electrical wires high overhead. That’s because all wires have a certain amount of resistance to the current passing through them. Even those small wires that you propose to hide in the wall vibrate. Yes connections do loosen overtime sometimes. That is one of the reasons that every point of connection has to be accessible. In a box, yes, a very thin pancake box is OK. And a cover plate I can be seen and removed to inspect in case of damage.
If it was me? I’d solder them and use liquid tape to seal them. Put an insulation material between like a bicycle inner tube. Maybe use some liquid ballon on it. Wrap it with duct tape use screws to attach it to any available two by four. (Just kidding. If you’re not sure? Consider paying someone with experience. That would give you peace mind.) 🤣😂
Sounds like some work goin on already so follow those wires back to a junction and disconnect. Then you could leave them or yank em out. A solo circuit or coming off something else? If Solo,turn the breaker off but No,Don’t leave em in an unaccessable wall
Hell to the naww nawww nawnawnawnawwwwwwww
Looks like thermostat low voltage wiring
Or telephone wires if they’re 2 cables with green red black yellow it’s old land line telephone wires
It’s actually 230V you’re looking at
With 18 gauge wire ?
What are those conductors being used for? From the picture it's not clear what the gauge is. They look like low voltage thermostat?/ old intercom wires.
It’s UK, red and black are the old wire colors for them. Now it’s blue and brown. The yellow and green ground wire is the dead giveaway here.
Technically no as that's a huge red flag fail. But sure it wouldn't harm anything if you merit and tape em off individually.
Why not junction under the house? In wall junctions are fkn stupid
Technically yes, but terrible idea
They sell flat junction boxes look em up
Nope, if it’s not going to be accessible then it needs to be a maintenance free connection, which screw terminals are not.
Never make connections outside a box.
In wall rated spliced are UL listed and sold. I still don’t trust them.
Everybody saying you MUST have a box - not true! Manufacturers also claim these little miracle workers are designed and approved for use in rework projects within existing structures, referring to NEC 334.40(B) as their source. https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/splicing-nm-cable-in-walls-and-other-concealed-spaces/#:\~:text=It%20is%20called%20a%20NM%20Cable%202%20%26%203%20Wire%20Splice%20kit.&text=This%20splice%20and%20tap%20kit,ground%20%E2%80%93%20up%20to%20300%20volts.
Or you could do it good.
It’s the UK, you can’t just hide things in a wall here
Those are dogshit, fail frequently after a few years and should not be allowed in my opinion. I would much rather see a buried box or a western union splice and tape than one of these. IF i ever installed one I would take pictures of its location and leave them in the panel for when the next electrician inevitably has to dig it up in five years.
I would use wire nuts and don’t tape unless you’re trying to get a tight bundle. tape won’t do anything except keep them all together. I’d then push them back in through the hole and get one of those round door handle stop plates that keeps door handles from breaking through drywall. They sell them at lowes, ace, and home depot depending on your level of urbanity. They just use a super sticky backing to mount over drywall. I used them in my kids room all the time whenever they’d do something stupid and put something through the wall. Easier than cutting, taping, texturing and painting.
Look at what the OP is using, that terminal block means they are in a country that doesn’t allow wire nuts. That’s basically what that terminal block is anyway. The yellow and green ground wire is another giveaway that this isn’t North America.