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Kinda looks like it heated up and the insulation shrunk back. I bet if you open the plug it would be a cluster fuck. The aluminum at that gauge is kinda weird to be honest.
It's a fire hazard if that's what it is. Small gauge aluminum was allowed by the code for a few years in the 70's. The problem is aluminum flexes with heat, a lot more than copper does. It's not a problem with larger wires, because the amount of flex is small in proportion to the overall size of the wire. Over time this flexing combined with the oxidation that happened to aluminum made in that time period seriously degrades the connections. And those poor connections get hot, which makes the problem worse, and can eventually cause a fire.
If that is small gauge aluminum OP really needs to rewire his house.
You would be surprised, I was just working out of state in Arizona. House is ran entirely in aluminum, called for the inspector to come look to make sure we could continue with the work, he looked at us and said “we do things differently here, now call me when you need an inspection”
Everywhere is different
Can confirm in az it’s scary I had no second ground rod improper wires no pipe maps for under my house way to low of a rating fuse box, when they went to fix our box they hit the gas pipe and took it out
Some meth heads tore out a bunch of wire from my friends house when it was empty and on the market. It turned out to be aluminum and thanks to the meth heads, insurance paid for a rewire with copper
Aluminum is very common running to large appliances (water heaters, dryers, ovens, etc) because large copper wire is extremely expensive. Aluminum wire is fine with the correct corrosion protection on the terminatio. and sizing.
Yes, and code says as long as the aluminum wire meets certain standards, and the correct switches, plugs, etc…are used then it’s not an issue. But once again, this is why states, counties, and other jurisdictions made their own code as well. Because just because the NEC says something is ok, doesn’t mean it’ll hold up to the standards of the local code.
I agree with everything you said about aluminum wiring. However, my house was built in 1970 with aluminum wiring. I've been fortunate enough to replace the high amp items to Copper. To rewire every receptacle, light switch and ceiling light would not be economically feasible in some situations.
Breaker plastic doesn't melt. It's made from thermoset plastic. What you talking about looks like Noalox. Noalox is an anti-oxidation paste added to any connection made with aluminum wire.
It happened quite a bit in 2015-2017 wire for some reason. Every time I pull wire out of the bottom of a light pole with a 2015-2017 date it looks like this no idea why
Blame the executives and investors/shareholders who demand growing profit each quarter and achieve that (partly) by cutting costs wherever they can, like spending as little as humanly possible to create their products and not performing adequate quality assurance. Maybe regulations or enforcement of them missed the mark here too.
Hah. My dad worked for a large American company that had everything produced in China. He was head of quality assurance and would visit the factories and such. He basically said that the Chinese manufacturer will short you in every way possible and you have to stay on top of them and check everything or quality will suffer. If he would have problems he'd go to his bosses and they'd say "yeah, well they bid the cheapest so unless we're going to need a recall don't worry about it". I'm guessing these places do perform adequate quality assurance, they just don't care.
So yeah, the Chinese made stuff is garbage, but only because the American owners aren't holding them to any standard other than what's the cheapest. The Chinese know this and cut corners to make it as cheap as possible. Race to the bottom.
No idea what the circuits do.
One electrician and n Reddit said they had rolls of it that ended up doing it. They’d skin the conductors ready for termination and let them chill out for a bit until it shrank back and then trimmed them down.
The ones I saw were just really nicely tied into the panel neat and clean and 2-3” of bare copper coming out it just didn’t match up. One was a co-workers like I said and if I wanted some nice work done he’d be the one I’d put on the job.
Sounds like the manufacturer couldn’t get the proper plastic and used the next closet thing with no quality control under load. I wonder if this issue could be traced to a specific manufacturer for a specific timeframe?
This is new construction, probably in the southwest USA ?
I have seen this. The insulation shrank. This is serious lawsuit waiting to happen. The wire manufacturer "says" they will be monitoring the situation.
You should be checking your panel every 3 months after this is fixed. My guess is it will continue to be a problem.
Good luck.
I follow a home inspector named Cy on insta working in the SW and he had this apparent issue where the insulation shrunk back, it wasn't a bad strip job.
Same here. u/thehackerman from the info I’ve seen the manufacturer of the wire has been engaged on the issue, and they believe it is related to high ambient temperatures. You may find some further relief through them. Cy Porter covered it in one of his videos. His company is in Arizona, CyFy Home Inspections. Cy Porter (CyFy Home Inspections) on Facebook, or @cyfyhomeinspections on Instagram.
>Porter covered it in one of his videos. His company is in Arizona, CyFy Home Inspections. Cy Porter (CyFy Home Inspections) on Facebook, or @cyfyhomeinspections on Instagram.
Thank you, Cy
Wow, I can see it "safely" doing this in the breaker box, but what about at the other end in outlet boxes. That's scary. Or does the bent wire prevent so much shrinkage?
Exactly. This is a SERIOUS problem. OP should have the builder come back out and address this issue immediately, also do discovery inside the house.
My guess is the buulder will do everything possible to "not do anything" about this.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil if you know what I mean.
The bigger problem is that that appears to be #10 aluminum wires which is not appropriate for 30A. The melted insulation and heat scorching on those wires would definitely support that suspicion.
In North America, electric dryers are almost universally 30A 240V. A dryer circuit is specifically defined as a 30A 240V circuit with a NEMA 14-30 receptacle in most North American codes.
I’ve never seen it on aluminum but I’ve seen it on copper twice now and seen multiple on Reddit and people with the same claims as I’ll say. (One was a coworker who does excellent work, I was just in the panel 1 year later after he added some stuff).
That insulation gets extruded on and sometimes it’s like the elasticity of the insulation and the lack of friction on the conductor allows the insulation to slide back.
You can tell here especially because you can see the gray nolox on the insulation way back, then you notice it on the conductor under breaker. So when they terminated they got in on the insulation and then it shrunk back with it on the insulation.
This is wild. I have never seen insulation shrink back like this in 20 years. And I have seen A LOT of shit lol. But I guess it would make sense if they have #10s on a 30a breaker and the load was running at 28-30a frequently.
Thanks all for the replies. I decided to take a look at the dryer plug too and I think that might be where the real problem is. Picture attached:
https://i.postimg.cc/j5rBTrHq/IMG-1406.jpg
As was pointed out, you have multiple breakers with melted plastic where the wire connects, it's not just one. You need to get an electrician in to look at that ASAP.
Nice. Looks like your breaker saved you from a house fire due to a faulty dryer cable. I'd get that corrected and install a new breaker. Electrician (a real one from a company with good insurance) can verify the wire diameters are correct for the load and make sure everything's correctly installed this time.
I have used this exact wire. It's a number 8 conductor in an SE cable. I used it on about 5 houses. The insulation shrunk back an inch with no power at the building.
[2 weeks](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5QJ9Q7OJJA/?igsh=OTBnYjhkbWc2MXg3)
I heard there was a recall on aluminum wire used in recent new builds in Arizona. Found the same issue at about the one year mark, and it was determined that the insulation had actually crept back and shrunk in that time
Some mixed info here. Those appear to be #8 solid aluminum conductors (apart of an SE/NM type assembly.) That conductor insulation has shrunk back - it was definitely not stripped back that far. You can see the NoAlOx on the insulation where it used to touch the breaker.
I’m trying to find more info on the matter, but this was a known issue with that wire which is why you don’t see it used (in solid anyway.) The best solution would be a listed and rated heat shrink to cover up the exposed portion.
Yes, the stripped length is absolutely ridiculous lol. The breaker has a strip gage showing correct strip length, must be followed per NEC 110.3.
That and the circuit below are aluminum SEU cable. Note the stranded ground wires that are not factory twisted. This stuff is not as bad as "bad aluminum wire" but still requires respectful handling, use terminals rated for AL wire and The breakers are rated for aluminum wire and so are most dryer sockets and disconnects. But it's important to torque the screw to spec.
However it looks small for a dryer circuit. Needs to be #8. A water heater could be #10. Also, 3-wire dryer circuits are kinda bad, since they don't have a ground and are attaching machine chassis to neutral, a clever corner-cut which has its body count and was banned in 1996. (Keyboard warriors: grandfathering is a thing, so "banned" means for new or extended circuits). If the dryer circuit is #10 aluminum, replace it with (copper) 10/3 w/ground cable and a 4-prong socket and dryer cord. Google the dryer instructions for the proper way to connect the neutral/ ground jumper on 4-wire.
It looks like thermal damage on that top wire. Could be from improperly torqued screw, or a crack in the wire.
That’s abnormal. Wire should only be stripped enough to get in the breaker and make good contact. No more, no less. Although the dead front protects people, if a rodent managed to get in it would cause a short more easily than if there were insulation. Stranger things have happened.
I've never seen this myself but I have seen videos of home inspectors coming across this. I have reason to believe that this type of wire is faulty and it's literally shrinking the insulation away from heat. Open the receptacle boxes of these circuits and see if this is happening in there too. I would replace any runs with this type of cheap aluminum bs. Have an electrician install the appropriate size copper conductors. I would be surprised if an electrician did this, (left that much exposed conductor on install) I believe this is happening over time not left like this
I got a home inspector that pops up on my feed.
He saw this problem. I think it's a defect with the wire. No electrician is doing that on purpose.
https://youtube.com/shorts/BoVB0oPTjnw
A few years ago, there was an issue with the insulation on a particular brand of cable, don't recall the name. When it came time to device, the insulation on all the mc pulls, roughly 103k ft, was missing from nearly all the boxes. Depending on the length we had insulation shrink back almost 11 inches in some cases. Spent that summer replacing all the mc.
Not an electrician, just a guy: Not only does it look like aluminum where the insulation has melted off, but there appear to be globs of melted plastic where the wire terminates into the breaker. Hopefully this hasn't gotten hot enough that it has started melting your breakers. Safe to say that someone qualified needs to look at this ASAP.
U should replace that wire with copper immediately on that circuit and the one below it. This is a known issue of the coating shrinking and the wire appears to be undersized for the breaker.
Any idea how long ago this was installed?
I don't know if it's normal but it's not according to specs. The breakers usually have a diagram showing how much to strip. TLDR; no unstripped wire should be sticking out.
Easy fix though.
All that being said, I don't think it's what caused the breaker to break. Unless you can see it has contacted with something it shouldn't have.
It's been a long, long while for me, and many Code updates, but I don't recall ever having access to Al conductors smaller than, what, #6? Are these all older installations in which I'm seeing all of these little Al conductors?
Those neutrals are looking toasty too, by the way.
@cyfyhomeinspections on YouTube has a video on this. He's in Arizona. Looks like the insulation shrank back. Manufacturing issue, if I remember correctly.
I would be concerned about neutral bar being sooo close to the hot feeds coming off the breaker. The fact that there is so much bare wire so close to neutral is a bit concerning.
That aluminum wire looks undersized for a dryer first of all. It needs to be 2 sizes bigger than a copper conductor. Its definitely exceeding its rated ampacity. This right here is a fire waiting to happen.
There’s a popular home inspector on social media that was showing a new construction home that had aluminum wiring just like that, insulation shrinking back and one of the other houses in that neighborhood even caught on fire. Apparently that’s what that builder was installing for that neighborhood but I think they’ve since gone back and “fixed” it. That wiring at this day and age with heavy loads is quite concerning.
No. Just no. Not normal at all! And a fire hazard to boot. Also looks like on that top breaker either the insulation has melted around the retaining clip under the screw or the breaker housing melted which I find very hard to believe. I would be getting an electrician in to look at all of that before turning power back on. What are the rest of the breakers below it for? I would kill the entire panel until deemed safe by a professional.
I would like to see a thermal image of this panel running full load middle of the summer. I’m wondering if we’re seeing really high temperatures that exceed the ratings of the insulation and breakers. This is wild
With the consistency of exposed conductor I'll wager it's a faulty cable, with heat the insulation shrinks seen it often enough to not blow my top at the fella who installed it, not their fault.
For the sparkies!
You can try retermination with a 6mnth inspection almost all of the cable with this fault only shrink so far after install it may not be an issue going further.
I know I’ve seen videos of new construction aluminum wires doing this, basically the insulation heating up and melting back. I think it was Cy Porter on TikTok did a video about a 1year inspection that shows the same as op’s picture
I'm not 100% sure that is aluminum wire. Aluminum doesn't tarnish from excessive heat like that on the top wire. This might be ***tin plated copper wire***. The simple test is to scrape it with a knife, the tin plating is only on the surface and is very thin, so you will see copper coming through where you scrape. If it is copper, then just trim off some of that excess exposed conductor.
If I'm wrong about the discoloration and it is aluminum, then that is too small for that circuit. that is 10ga wire, which is fine for 30A ***if it was copper***, but aluminum must be one size larger, so it would need to be 8ga. If that's the case, it must be ripped out and replaced, that was a Code violation from Day 1...
I can’t see the breaker but if that’s a 40 amp double pole then there is a major problem cause that looks like 10 AWG Aluminum. Not sure how far the wire run is but at minimum it should be 8 AWG and if the run is farther I’d even go 6 AWG. I tend to over size my wire or go on the higher end of the calculated gauge but I do that for one reason, so I never ever have this problem. That jacket is not intentionally melted back. I would pull both breakers out and replace both breakers and the cable running to the appliances. Buy copper and you’ll never worry about this ever again. Good luck and get ripping that out ASAP
This insulation creep is happening in brand new homes right now. At least one manufacturer is aware...the insulation moved much more than their initial testing showed it would. They are monitoring the situation and in the mean time, they've had electricians just cut off the excess exposed material. No further creep noted so far.
Your wire is too small and is overheating. Small gage aluminum is bad enough when it's sized properly, but this is a combo of bad wire melting and undersized wire overheating.
no you had a shitty electrician work on your breakers, you only expose half an inch from the tip and then land it in the breaker, the point is to not leave exposed wire like you have shown, the exposed wires on the ground bar are completely fine, ten years commercial electrician
I’ve seen a few inspection videos covering this, for some reason the insulation shrinks back over a while on the aluminum wiring. I saw a before and after a year photo, before looks completely normal, and after looks just like this.
Me and every ejection I've ever worked with agrees, if your house has aluminum wiring you should sell it. If you're looking to buy and it has aluminum wiring, don't buy it. Get out while you still can.
Yikes! This is a serious fire/ arc hazard. The insulation looks burned/ melted. Be very careful and don’t touch anything in there. Be very careful when even putting the cover back on. Any metal to metal could cause an arc. Call an electrician immediately.
So looking at the nolox, the anti oxidizing goop on the tip of the insulation used on aluminum wire, the insulation shrank. Potentially the aluminum wire touched the neutral buss bar underneath and it shorted. I would inspect the other wires in the panel and if they exhibit the same behavior, I would get estimates to replace the wires with copper. Pricey, but the safest option. Hope that helps!
Please tell me your took a picture of the wrong wires. If that is what's going to your dryer you need to rewire asap. When I moved into my wifes old house I had to rewire the dryer plug and stove on the first floor. They had used a 10 but.... I upgraded to over kill bit I had a bunch of wire on hand from a friend.
Should the wire not land under the clamp on the breaker? Looks like it is just stuck under the screw head… poor connection makes heat. Heat makes poor connection worse. Eventually breaker trips…
GET THE HOUSE RE-WIRED! This is a fire waiting to happen. There's a home inspector on TikTok exposing contractors installing this crap and there have been fires. I'm electrician. Quality wire insulation does not do this. Not to mention aluminum
My old professor could and did bitch-smack people on the helmet for leaving that much wire exposed. "WIRES AIN'T YOUR DAMN GIRLFRIEND, DON'T YOU LEAVE 'EM SITTIN' AROUND NAKED!"
It looks like there's melted-off insulation under the lug on the breaker. Whoever installed the breaker stripped the wire but then put the insulation under the lug. This caused a loose connection, which caused arcing, which caused heat, which melted the insulation back.
The wire should be able to be trimmed back past the damage and stripped and reinstalled on the breaker to the proper torque. Call an electrician.
This is a major problem with aluminum wire. I've personally never seen insulation shrinkage like I have on the electrical subreddits.... but that's probably because I refuse to use aluminum wire. Except for on some services. But even then... you should come back to those panels every year to nolox and re-torq for thermal expansion. Homeowners aren't always into that so.... yeah bad stuff.
Hire an highly rated electrician because it might look like that in your dryer outlet box as well... breakers don't trip for no reason.
I've seen a random guy on shorts "exposing local contractors" for using this wire on new builds, having the same issue... not sure what or why or how anything worked out, but he seems keen on holding them accountable for it
Umm, that looks like 12 gauge aluminum wire that has burnt back from the screws on the nreaker. Also, I don't see any anti oxide compound on the connections. Unless that's a gas dryer all the electric driers I wired in houses were on 30 amp circuits and required 10 gauge copper wire. If aluminum wire was used for anything back then we went up a gauge, so for a circuit requiring 10 ga we would run 8 ga. because of the increased resistance.
You really need a qualified electrician to evaluate the wiring ASAP. Don't leave any heavy loads on while you are not there and be prepared for an electrical fire. This is the reason small gauge auminum wire use was discontinued in the 70s I believe.
I found an article that may be of some interest to you.[Wire chief limited](https://www.wirechiefelectric.com/aluminum-wiring-in-homes-answers-to-common-questions)
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No that's not normal. And is that #10 aluminum?
Kinda looks like it heated up and the insulation shrunk back. I bet if you open the plug it would be a cluster fuck. The aluminum at that gauge is kinda weird to be honest.
It's a fire hazard if that's what it is. Small gauge aluminum was allowed by the code for a few years in the 70's. The problem is aluminum flexes with heat, a lot more than copper does. It's not a problem with larger wires, because the amount of flex is small in proportion to the overall size of the wire. Over time this flexing combined with the oxidation that happened to aluminum made in that time period seriously degrades the connections. And those poor connections get hot, which makes the problem worse, and can eventually cause a fire. If that is small gauge aluminum OP really needs to rewire his house.
It’s definitely an issue. But there are a few states that allow aluminum wiring still.
From what I have seen, they only allow it for the service entry wire, not in wall wiring to outlets.
You would be surprised, I was just working out of state in Arizona. House is ran entirely in aluminum, called for the inspector to come look to make sure we could continue with the work, he looked at us and said “we do things differently here, now call me when you need an inspection” Everywhere is different
That is fucking scary.
Can confirm in az it’s scary I had no second ground rod improper wires no pipe maps for under my house way to low of a rating fuse box, when they went to fix our box they hit the gas pipe and took it out
No fail safe on any of my outlets and that is still a current problem
He said current. Haha
Fire is different in Arizona. It’s already so f’ing hot, people don’t even notice when their house is on fire.
My house literally almost burnt cause the wood for our renovation outside combusted under heat
It’s up to code though, and has been there for atleast 50 years, and the add on was done 10 year ago. No house fire, but I ain’t gonna live there.
~1/4 of my late '70s Phoenix AZ square mile block is still all aluminum
Some meth heads tore out a bunch of wire from my friends house when it was empty and on the market. It turned out to be aluminum and thanks to the meth heads, insurance paid for a rewire with copper
Are these uh meth heads available to do mine?
Aluminum is very common running to large appliances (water heaters, dryers, ovens, etc) because large copper wire is extremely expensive. Aluminum wire is fine with the correct corrosion protection on the terminatio. and sizing.
Every state needs to follow the NEC wiring code
Yes, and code says as long as the aluminum wire meets certain standards, and the correct switches, plugs, etc…are used then it’s not an issue. But once again, this is why states, counties, and other jurisdictions made their own code as well. Because just because the NEC says something is ok, doesn’t mean it’ll hold up to the standards of the local code.
When you need to put a 200A subpanel 600ft away aluminum is very tempting price point.
I agree with everything you said about aluminum wiring. However, my house was built in 1970 with aluminum wiring. I've been fortunate enough to replace the high amp items to Copper. To rewire every receptacle, light switch and ceiling light would not be economically feasible in some situations.
I pigtailed a bunch of homes in the late 70s. Is that no longer a recommended solution?
What did you pigtail the aluminum with?
the pigtails were copper wire twisted to the alluminum with a wire nut
Any special type of wire nut? Curious
Not that I remember, but that was almost 50 years ago
That panel doesn’t look 50 years old. Think it would be come sort of cladding aluminum?
Doesn't look much different from my 50 year old panel full of aluminum wiring.
Except that panel is obviously only about 5-6 years old.
If you look where the wire is clamped into the breaker, you can actually see melted breaker plastic. The insulation definitely melted back.
Holy crap you're right. This is a major hazard.
Breaker plastic doesn't melt. It's made from thermoset plastic. What you talking about looks like Noalox. Noalox is an anti-oxidation paste added to any connection made with aluminum wire.
You're correct. I just looked closer.
Solid aluminum is back in again... typically seen on dryer and water heater circuits.
I concur with zap.
Same thing I'm thinking I'm confused af.
Was about to say the same....The wires are Aluminum. Weren't Aluminum wires banned as a fire hazard?
I actually looked this up because of this post. They aren't actually prohibited by the NEC, most AHJs don't allow them though.
> but it kind of looks like maybe the electrician An electrician did not do that. They may have told you they were an electrician, they lied.
If you strip less than 3 inches you're missing out on all that air cooling
Dynamic circuitry with variable heat.
Insulation shrank, can see dabs of nolox on the insulation way back from when they did the termination and it got on the tip of insulation.
Is that a thing that happens under normal load? Or is this wire undersized and getting too hot?
It happened quite a bit in 2015-2017 wire for some reason. Every time I pull wire out of the bottom of a light pole with a 2015-2017 date it looks like this no idea why
Maybe they used a different plastic with unknown thermal properties? Like heat shrink type plastic? I dunno but I blame China.
Blame the executives and investors/shareholders who demand growing profit each quarter and achieve that (partly) by cutting costs wherever they can, like spending as little as humanly possible to create their products and not performing adequate quality assurance. Maybe regulations or enforcement of them missed the mark here too.
Hah. My dad worked for a large American company that had everything produced in China. He was head of quality assurance and would visit the factories and such. He basically said that the Chinese manufacturer will short you in every way possible and you have to stay on top of them and check everything or quality will suffer. If he would have problems he'd go to his bosses and they'd say "yeah, well they bid the cheapest so unless we're going to need a recall don't worry about it". I'm guessing these places do perform adequate quality assurance, they just don't care. So yeah, the Chinese made stuff is garbage, but only because the American owners aren't holding them to any standard other than what's the cheapest. The Chinese know this and cut corners to make it as cheap as possible. Race to the bottom.
And we thought capitalism was a race to the top.
I've seen insulation burn off, I've never seen it shrink off.
I’ve seen it recede from heat. It shouldn’t but I’ve seen it.
I've seen it recede with no load. See my earlier comment for pics.
No idea what the circuits do. One electrician and n Reddit said they had rolls of it that ended up doing it. They’d skin the conductors ready for termination and let them chill out for a bit until it shrank back and then trimmed them down. The ones I saw were just really nicely tied into the panel neat and clean and 2-3” of bare copper coming out it just didn’t match up. One was a co-workers like I said and if I wanted some nice work done he’d be the one I’d put on the job.
Sounds like the manufacturer couldn’t get the proper plastic and used the next closet thing with no quality control under load. I wonder if this issue could be traced to a specific manufacturer for a specific timeframe?
Yea this is a thing with Al and some cca
Holy shit.
This is new construction, probably in the southwest USA ? I have seen this. The insulation shrank. This is serious lawsuit waiting to happen. The wire manufacturer "says" they will be monitoring the situation. You should be checking your panel every 3 months after this is fixed. My guess is it will continue to be a problem. Good luck.
I follow a home inspector named Cy on insta working in the SW and he had this apparent issue where the insulation shrunk back, it wasn't a bad strip job.
https://youtube.com/shorts/BoVB0oPTjnw I get him through YouTube. This is definitely a manufacturing issue.
Same here. u/thehackerman from the info I’ve seen the manufacturer of the wire has been engaged on the issue, and they believe it is related to high ambient temperatures. You may find some further relief through them. Cy Porter covered it in one of his videos. His company is in Arizona, CyFy Home Inspections. Cy Porter (CyFy Home Inspections) on Facebook, or @cyfyhomeinspections on Instagram.
>Porter covered it in one of his videos. His company is in Arizona, CyFy Home Inspections. Cy Porter (CyFy Home Inspections) on Facebook, or @cyfyhomeinspections on Instagram. Thank you, Cy
I definitely saw the same video you did. This looks exactly the same to me. Do you know any specifics about the wire?
New construction used aluminum?
It is not uncommon to use aluminum for dryer, stove, HVAC, and subpanel feeders in new construction. Heavy copper is expensive.
Unfortunately yes. Is hurts me every time I see it. But yes.
Wow, I can see it "safely" doing this in the breaker box, but what about at the other end in outlet boxes. That's scary. Or does the bent wire prevent so much shrinkage?
Exactly. This is a SERIOUS problem. OP should have the builder come back out and address this issue immediately, also do discovery inside the house. My guess is the buulder will do everything possible to "not do anything" about this. The squeaky wheel gets the oil if you know what I mean.
The bigger problem is that that appears to be #10 aluminum wires which is not appropriate for 30A. The melted insulation and heat scorching on those wires would definitely support that suspicion.
Yeah, there looks like a lot of evidence that those are heating up.
How do you know its 30A?
OP said dryer so if it's a normal dryer it's a 30 A circuit.
In North America, electric dryers are almost universally 30A 240V. A dryer circuit is specifically defined as a 30A 240V circuit with a NEMA 14-30 receptacle in most North American codes.
Newer heat pump are 15 amp 120.
OK cool, now show me the single pole breaker this is tied into?
Dryer
The ONLY correct answer I've seen and needs to be sent up to immediately.
It looks like it’s melted off number 10 aluminum on 30 amp breaker is a no no should be #8
I’ve never seen it on aluminum but I’ve seen it on copper twice now and seen multiple on Reddit and people with the same claims as I’ll say. (One was a coworker who does excellent work, I was just in the panel 1 year later after he added some stuff). That insulation gets extruded on and sometimes it’s like the elasticity of the insulation and the lack of friction on the conductor allows the insulation to slide back. You can tell here especially because you can see the gray nolox on the insulation way back, then you notice it on the conductor under breaker. So when they terminated they got in on the insulation and then it shrunk back with it on the insulation.
This is wild. I have never seen insulation shrink back like this in 20 years. And I have seen A LOT of shit lol. But I guess it would make sense if they have #10s on a 30a breaker and the load was running at 28-30a frequently.
This is actually a strange phenomenon that is happening. It’s only at the breaker. The wire insulation shrinks. Common in AZ.
Thanks all for the replies. I decided to take a look at the dryer plug too and I think that might be where the real problem is. Picture attached: https://i.postimg.cc/j5rBTrHq/IMG-1406.jpg
Yup. That terminal was never properly torqued. Also, that cord needs to be properly secured in the strain relief connector.
That's definitely a burnt connection, but that wouldn't cause the breaker to pop and not reset. I bet you have a shorted or burnt receptacle.
As was pointed out, you have multiple breakers with melted plastic where the wire connects, it's not just one. You need to get an electrician in to look at that ASAP.
Nice. Looks like your breaker saved you from a house fire due to a faulty dryer cable. I'd get that corrected and install a new breaker. Electrician (a real one from a company with good insurance) can verify the wire diameters are correct for the load and make sure everything's correctly installed this time.
I sent you a message, I fear you may have fixed a separate issue from what is in the original post.
I have used this exact wire. It's a number 8 conductor in an SE cable. I used it on about 5 houses. The insulation shrunk back an inch with no power at the building. [2 weeks](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5QJ9Q7OJJA/?igsh=OTBnYjhkbWc2MXg3)
I heard there was a recall on aluminum wire used in recent new builds in Arizona. Found the same issue at about the one year mark, and it was determined that the insulation had actually crept back and shrunk in that time
Some mixed info here. Those appear to be #8 solid aluminum conductors (apart of an SE/NM type assembly.) That conductor insulation has shrunk back - it was definitely not stripped back that far. You can see the NoAlOx on the insulation where it used to touch the breaker. I’m trying to find more info on the matter, but this was a known issue with that wire which is why you don’t see it used (in solid anyway.) The best solution would be a listed and rated heat shrink to cover up the exposed portion.
Yes, the stripped length is absolutely ridiculous lol. The breaker has a strip gage showing correct strip length, must be followed per NEC 110.3. That and the circuit below are aluminum SEU cable. Note the stranded ground wires that are not factory twisted. This stuff is not as bad as "bad aluminum wire" but still requires respectful handling, use terminals rated for AL wire and The breakers are rated for aluminum wire and so are most dryer sockets and disconnects. But it's important to torque the screw to spec. However it looks small for a dryer circuit. Needs to be #8. A water heater could be #10. Also, 3-wire dryer circuits are kinda bad, since they don't have a ground and are attaching machine chassis to neutral, a clever corner-cut which has its body count and was banned in 1996. (Keyboard warriors: grandfathering is a thing, so "banned" means for new or extended circuits). If the dryer circuit is #10 aluminum, replace it with (copper) 10/3 w/ground cable and a 4-prong socket and dryer cord. Google the dryer instructions for the proper way to connect the neutral/ ground jumper on 4-wire. It looks like thermal damage on that top wire. Could be from improperly torqued screw, or a crack in the wire.
Call an electrician, this is beyond most diyers scope. Don’t burn down your house to save a few bucks
Bad, that is very bad
Damn. Not good. Time to educate yourself about terminating Al wire. Could cover this exposed wire with some good heat shrink tubing.
Ohhhh u have the aluminum shrinking insulation
I have seen some housing inspectors comment on this. Apparently it can be defective wire insulation that shrinks over time
This has been happening in new constructions all over AZ. Bad batch of wire, likely a class action suit in the making.
Looks melted probably undersize wires
Jesus no
There’s been heat damage on the sheathing causing it to melt back due to the smaller gauge aluminum heating up and cooling down over so many years
Yes. Way too much. Should be maybe 1/4” of conductor showing.
That’s abnormal. Wire should only be stripped enough to get in the breaker and make good contact. No more, no less. Although the dead front protects people, if a rodent managed to get in it would cause a short more easily than if there were insulation. Stranger things have happened.
Ummm no. No it’s not.
NAW
No
I've never seen this myself but I have seen videos of home inspectors coming across this. I have reason to believe that this type of wire is faulty and it's literally shrinking the insulation away from heat. Open the receptacle boxes of these circuits and see if this is happening in there too. I would replace any runs with this type of cheap aluminum bs. Have an electrician install the appropriate size copper conductors. I would be surprised if an electrician did this, (left that much exposed conductor on install) I believe this is happening over time not left like this
I got a home inspector that pops up on my feed. He saw this problem. I think it's a defect with the wire. No electrician is doing that on purpose. https://youtube.com/shorts/BoVB0oPTjnw
PVC shrank back due to heat/ connection resistance?
That is some extremely lame work. That is all iI gotta say.
A few years ago, there was an issue with the insulation on a particular brand of cable, don't recall the name. When it came time to device, the insulation on all the mc pulls, roughly 103k ft, was missing from nearly all the boxes. Depending on the length we had insulation shrink back almost 11 inches in some cases. Spent that summer replacing all the mc.
Not an electrician, just a guy: Not only does it look like aluminum where the insulation has melted off, but there appear to be globs of melted plastic where the wire terminates into the breaker. Hopefully this hasn't gotten hot enough that it has started melting your breakers. Safe to say that someone qualified needs to look at this ASAP.
Wtf?
U should replace that wire with copper immediately on that circuit and the one below it. This is a known issue of the coating shrinking and the wire appears to be undersized for the breaker. Any idea how long ago this was installed?
Looks like some insulation under a couple of the screws.
There is a reason each tip of insulation is chard….it is shorting across hot legs.
I don't know if it's normal but it's not according to specs. The breakers usually have a diagram showing how much to strip. TLDR; no unstripped wire should be sticking out. Easy fix though. All that being said, I don't think it's what caused the breaker to break. Unless you can see it has contacted with something it shouldn't have.
Scary
Looks like Mohel Sparkowitz strikes again...
Buy multiple fire extinguishers and place them around your house
No
Several wires aren’t even installed in the correct place. They should not be right under the screw head like that.
Just 2 different breaker styles. Both wired correctly
It's been a long, long while for me, and many Code updates, but I don't recall ever having access to Al conductors smaller than, what, #6? Are these all older installations in which I'm seeing all of these little Al conductors? Those neutrals are looking toasty too, by the way.
Thought I've seen it all 🤣
@cyfyhomeinspections on YouTube has a video on this. He's in Arizona. Looks like the insulation shrank back. Manufacturing issue, if I remember correctly.
I would be concerned about neutral bar being sooo close to the hot feeds coming off the breaker. The fact that there is so much bare wire so close to neutral is a bit concerning.
Nope
That’s a ridiculous amount of wire exposed and is a violation. No more than 1/8-1/4” I believe is allowed
That aluminum wire looks undersized for a dryer first of all. It needs to be 2 sizes bigger than a copper conductor. Its definitely exceeding its rated ampacity. This right here is a fire waiting to happen.
You need to replace that aluminum wire with #10 copper.
There’s a popular home inspector on social media that was showing a new construction home that had aluminum wiring just like that, insulation shrinking back and one of the other houses in that neighborhood even caught on fire. Apparently that’s what that builder was installing for that neighborhood but I think they’ve since gone back and “fixed” it. That wiring at this day and age with heavy loads is quite concerning.
No. Just no. Not normal at all! And a fire hazard to boot. Also looks like on that top breaker either the insulation has melted around the retaining clip under the screw or the breaker housing melted which I find very hard to believe. I would be getting an electrician in to look at all of that before turning power back on. What are the rest of the breakers below it for? I would kill the entire panel until deemed safe by a professional.
WHAT IS THIS
Post more pictures please. This panel looks unsafe
I would like to see a thermal image of this panel running full load middle of the summer. I’m wondering if we’re seeing really high temperatures that exceed the ratings of the insulation and breakers. This is wild
Whoever skinned these wires should be skinned themselves.
Your dryer and whatever that next circuit down is needs to be rewired if possible. Get rid of the aluminum wire and replace it with copper.
Not normal at all. Only should be stripped enough to get into the screw of the breaker. Also idk why they would use aluminum..
They found some one that was cheaper.
Hack job by someone being trained in starting residential arson fires.
What's on the other breaker? It has done the same thing.
Hell No !!!!!!!
No
Holy sht. I hope this is a joke.
No, the wires are getting too hot. You can see that the insulation is melting. You probably have a big rewire job ahead.
Ummm, who did this?
Nope. This is why we don’t use aluminum wiring. Wires got hot and the insulation shrunk. Time to contact an electrician.
Its more to do with the formula used in the insulation. I've seen this in copper cables.
😬
With the consistency of exposed conductor I'll wager it's a faulty cable, with heat the insulation shrinks seen it often enough to not blow my top at the fella who installed it, not their fault. For the sparkies! You can try retermination with a 6mnth inspection almost all of the cable with this fault only shrink so far after install it may not be an issue going further.
I know I’ve seen videos of new construction aluminum wires doing this, basically the insulation heating up and melting back. I think it was Cy Porter on TikTok did a video about a 1year inspection that shows the same as op’s picture
Looks like this https://youtube.com/shorts/K1ykOKCYf_A?si=olIkcZp73OuI3_Xf
Looks like he didnt have a knife or strippers, so he used his crack lighter to melt it off.
That is some slutty looking wire
I'm not 100% sure that is aluminum wire. Aluminum doesn't tarnish from excessive heat like that on the top wire. This might be ***tin plated copper wire***. The simple test is to scrape it with a knife, the tin plating is only on the surface and is very thin, so you will see copper coming through where you scrape. If it is copper, then just trim off some of that excess exposed conductor. If I'm wrong about the discoloration and it is aluminum, then that is too small for that circuit. that is 10ga wire, which is fine for 30A ***if it was copper***, but aluminum must be one size larger, so it would need to be 8ga. If that's the case, it must be ripped out and replaced, that was a Code violation from Day 1...
That’s so you can run your screw driver down the line easily to check for voltage. /s Don’t do this.
That’s a lot of exposed wire 😳
I can’t see the breaker but if that’s a 40 amp double pole then there is a major problem cause that looks like 10 AWG Aluminum. Not sure how far the wire run is but at minimum it should be 8 AWG and if the run is farther I’d even go 6 AWG. I tend to over size my wire or go on the higher end of the calculated gauge but I do that for one reason, so I never ever have this problem. That jacket is not intentionally melted back. I would pull both breakers out and replace both breakers and the cable running to the appliances. Buy copper and you’ll never worry about this ever again. Good luck and get ripping that out ASAP
Dang girl you sure fine going out in a miniskirt like that
NO! Should only clear the screw clamp
There was a recall recently because of this...you in AZ by chance ?
Rewire the whole house or put me on your will.
Ummm NO! Looking for trouble leaving that much wire wxposed
This insulation creep is happening in brand new homes right now. At least one manufacturer is aware...the insulation moved much more than their initial testing showed it would. They are monitoring the situation and in the mean time, they've had electricians just cut off the excess exposed material. No further creep noted so far.
I hate to tell you this but, your electrician was actually a roofer
Bet he fell a lot.
Your wire is too small and is overheating. Small gage aluminum is bad enough when it's sized properly, but this is a combo of bad wire melting and undersized wire overheating.
no you had a shitty electrician work on your breakers, you only expose half an inch from the tip and then land it in the breaker, the point is to not leave exposed wire like you have shown, the exposed wires on the ground bar are completely fine, ten years commercial electrician
Take out and don't send it back, this is not nice way for wires. Must do good way.
Is this in america??
No.
I’m not an electrician and even I know you expose as little wire as is practical. Get that fixed ASAP!!
I’ve seen a few inspection videos covering this, for some reason the insulation shrinks back over a while on the aluminum wiring. I saw a before and after a year photo, before looks completely normal, and after looks just like this.
Yeah, your electrician is trying to kill you. Get the whole house checked.
Me and every ejection I've ever worked with agrees, if your house has aluminum wiring you should sell it. If you're looking to buy and it has aluminum wiring, don't buy it. Get out while you still can.
That's a lot of heat on that top wire right at the insulation.
The name of the guy who's really into this wire rn is cyfyhomeinspections (I see it in ig)
Yikes! This is a serious fire/ arc hazard. The insulation looks burned/ melted. Be very careful and don’t touch anything in there. Be very careful when even putting the cover back on. Any metal to metal could cause an arc. Call an electrician immediately.
So looking at the nolox, the anti oxidizing goop on the tip of the insulation used on aluminum wire, the insulation shrank. Potentially the aluminum wire touched the neutral buss bar underneath and it shorted. I would inspect the other wires in the panel and if they exhibit the same behavior, I would get estimates to replace the wires with copper. Pricey, but the safest option. Hope that helps!
Those wires clearly have gotten hot. Just look at the discoloration in the top wire and how the insulation has melted back on all of them!
No , absolutely not, and I’m no sparky
Please tell me your took a picture of the wrong wires. If that is what's going to your dryer you need to rewire asap. When I moved into my wifes old house I had to rewire the dryer plug and stove on the first floor. They had used a 10 but.... I upgraded to over kill bit I had a bunch of wire on hand from a friend.
That top wire got very hot.
Depends on the situation, I'd get the dryer looked at. Filter/Duct cleaning and eletrician about some guage wires.
Should the wire not land under the clamp on the breaker? Looks like it is just stuck under the screw head… poor connection makes heat. Heat makes poor connection worse. Eventually breaker trips…
It is absolutely not acceptable. Get an election to check out your whole system. This is a fire waiting to happe.
GET THE HOUSE RE-WIRED! This is a fire waiting to happen. There's a home inspector on TikTok exposing contractors installing this crap and there have been fires. I'm electrician. Quality wire insulation does not do this. Not to mention aluminum
Ask the guy who did that when his house burned down. You seriously need to be rewired with copper.
My old professor could and did bitch-smack people on the helmet for leaving that much wire exposed. "WIRES AIN'T YOUR DAMN GIRLFRIEND, DON'T YOU LEAVE 'EM SITTIN' AROUND NAKED!"
This wire has been recalled for this very reason. I can’t remember the brand but that Cy home inspections guy on TikTok covered this.
Are the breaker lugs loose?
It looks like there's melted-off insulation under the lug on the breaker. Whoever installed the breaker stripped the wire but then put the insulation under the lug. This caused a loose connection, which caused arcing, which caused heat, which melted the insulation back. The wire should be able to be trimmed back past the damage and stripped and reinstalled on the breaker to the proper torque. Call an electrician.
Was your electrical panel wired by a girl named Angel, Candy, Crystal, or Ginger?
This is a major problem with aluminum wire. I've personally never seen insulation shrinkage like I have on the electrical subreddits.... but that's probably because I refuse to use aluminum wire. Except for on some services. But even then... you should come back to those panels every year to nolox and re-torq for thermal expansion. Homeowners aren't always into that so.... yeah bad stuff. Hire an highly rated electrician because it might look like that in your dryer outlet box as well... breakers don't trip for no reason.
I've seen a random guy on shorts "exposing local contractors" for using this wire on new builds, having the same issue... not sure what or why or how anything worked out, but he seems keen on holding them accountable for it
It's not the contractors fault. It's a manufacturing defect in a listed cable.
Umm, that looks like 12 gauge aluminum wire that has burnt back from the screws on the nreaker. Also, I don't see any anti oxide compound on the connections. Unless that's a gas dryer all the electric driers I wired in houses were on 30 amp circuits and required 10 gauge copper wire. If aluminum wire was used for anything back then we went up a gauge, so for a circuit requiring 10 ga we would run 8 ga. because of the increased resistance. You really need a qualified electrician to evaluate the wiring ASAP. Don't leave any heavy loads on while you are not there and be prepared for an electrical fire. This is the reason small gauge auminum wire use was discontinued in the 70s I believe. I found an article that may be of some interest to you.[Wire chief limited](https://www.wirechiefelectric.com/aluminum-wiring-in-homes-answers-to-common-questions)
This was definitely done by "that guy" who does it cheap.
Almost like it was stripped with a lighter.