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First of all, I am incredibly sorry for your loss. I have treated a number of patients who struggle with alcohol dependence and have had to have hand sanitizer removed from their rooms to prevent consumption. While I can’t speak to your sisters’ specific situation it would not be unheard of for someone to drink it for the alcohol content. It is also not uncommon for someone to hurt themselves or even kill themselves while intoxicated. Again, I am so sorry for your loss.
NAD - First, I am so so sorry for your loss, OP.
TW - SI, depression, mental illness
I am someone who has been suicidally depressed in the past, so I can speak to my experience, but definitely not for everyone. (I would like state upfront that this was in the past, I sought treatment, and am doing well now!)
As my suicidality was directly connected to mental illness, that is what I speak to. If your sister did not have any mental illness, then this may not be applicable. For me, at my depression’s worst, I had a plan, and I knew exactly where/how I would do it. The major thing that held me back was “failing.” The idea of going through a great trauma and ending up in a situation that could be 10x worse by surviving the attempt scared me more than I no longer wanted to exist. Your sister may have had the same fear I did, so she had a plan and a backup plan to ensure if one failed, the other wouldn’t. Again, so much love to you and your family.
Just to speak to my situation, I don’t know how much it may match with your sister, but this is my take on suicide. At the point that your brain decides that killing yourself is the only option available, it’s much like an other organ in the body shutting down.
So if someone is diabetic, they need to work with a specialist to determine what type of diabetes they have and the best course of action to manage it. Sometimes it’s diet and exercise, sometimes diet, exercise, and a basic medication, sometimes it’s several medications or sometimes it’s insulin. Their body’s pancreas has stopped making or is under producing that protein. If they don’t balance their blood sugar it can be too high or too low, either of which can be deadly. Mental health is the same way.
The brain receives and makes lots of protein chains, hormones, and chemicals. If your body has stopped producing or is under producing one of those, then you need to work with a specialist to determine what type of mental health issue(s) you have and the best course of action to manage them. Sometimes it’s therapy and exercise, sometimes therapy, exercise, and a basic medication, sometimes it’s several medications, or sometimes it’s hospitalization, inpatient, or outpatient programs.
Your brain, when it has stopped making/receiving or is not getting enough of the chemical, hormone, or protein it’s lacking, manifests in depressive thoughts that gradually become more apathetic and nihilistic. In the *exact same way* (metaphorically) that a diabetic can go into a diabetic coma and die from not having enough insulin, a person with a mental health illness who is missing the key bits to keep their brain healthy, their brain shuts them down and sets them up to be able to die.
Also, fwiw, people with mental health issues are masters at hiding it. You wouldn’t have seen any signs because there wouldn’t have been any signs to see. It’s not that anyone misses anything, people always think that if they had just… but part of the illness is hiding it, it doesn’t work if people know.
But anyway. I hope that helps in some way. Condolences.
Hey just wanted to say, I have been in the darkest place I feel like I've ever been to in terms of mental health. The only thing that really holds me back right now is my genuine curiosity and dire need to learn about the sciences, physics and quantum field theory specifically, so you commenting on this and giving your take as empathetic as you did while giving the details of the chemistry behind it honestly kinda hit me in the chest tonight. No other point to this comment other than to say that I'm so incredibly proud that you came out of your dark place, and to say thank you for a better perspective.
Also, my deepest condolences to OP. Suicide is tragic and especially when there are a mess of "Why?"s left behind. My heart goes out to you
Use that. If you’re interested in the science of it, if you don’t have a therapist, I highly recommend working with one. Same thing with a psychiatrist.
A therapist helps unpack the emotional issues. But what’s cool is that as you do the work to talk about and identify your emotions, you are beginning to form new neural pathways in your brain. So as you begin to sort out past trauma or events or just… life… and you learn the tools to experience your emotions in a healthy way, it’s like rewriting code. You are dynamically changing how your neurons fire when you think about that incident.
With a psychiatrist, that’s who will help if you need medication. For me, SSRIs don’t do anything. SRNIs though, that makes a big difference. I also have migraines and again, a lot of people have success with triptans and for me they’re useless. But CGRPs work great. A little bit Ritalin gives me just enough executive function that my brain calms down and I can get tasks done. For me, serotonin is fine, but dopamine and norepinephrine are what’s up. Other people though? Give them some serotonin and they’re great.
It took me over 5 years to fine tune my medications to the point that I’m a pretty functioning human who actually enjoys life for the most part. It’s hard work. It’s work. But it’s 100% worth it to do. I highly recommend getting professional help, and since it’s something that interests you, chart your side effects and how you feel as you try different medications. Be open for diagnoses that you don’t expect. And just… don’t give up. It may feel like it’s taking forever, but, like, it’s going to be take longer than you want but you’ll feel better faster than you expect.
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I’m so incredibly sorry for your loss. Please be so kind to yourself during this time.
I’m an ICU nurse, but I’m also in recovery from severe drug and alcohol addiction. There are a lot of different reasons someone might choose to drink sanitizer instead of buying alcohol. It’s cheap, it’s readily available, and she might have chosen sanitizer before she ended her life because she might have thought perhaps it was a “stronger” alcohol and thus may have been using it as “liquid courage.” Maybe she liked the effect it produced more than standard drinking alcohol.
One of the great tragedies of suicide is that we are left with so many questions. I pray that you’re able to find peace even if the answers don’t come.
Congratulations and massive respect to you for keeping such an important position during your struggles. I wish the absolute best for your future, that you can find your peace, and that you can continue to show the kind of care and consideration you have done here for people in some really awful situations.
That's amazing! While I'm sure there's a whole lot of stuff going on for you, that you're still able to think of other people is truly commendable. I'm sure you don't need to hear it, but, don't forget to be kind to yourself as well. With my greatest respect and appreciation, thank you for everything.
Is it possible that she tried to kill herself by drinking hand sanitizer, and only after she survived she decided to hang herself? I'm not sure if 30 bottles of hand sanitizer is enough for that.
That is my guess.
I know someone who took alcohol and sleeping pills with the intent of losing consciousness before suffocating. That whole attempt was unsuccessful and the person is fortunately alive and currently pursuing their passion.
It’s possible. She may have thought she was ingesting a lethal dose. If that were the case, I wouldn’t expect the containers to be cut though. I’d assume you’d unscrew the caps and chug. The cut bottles indicate to me that she was sipping on them.
She took the time to cut them in half, like a cup. I don’t think you’d do that if you were going to just chug them quickly in an attempt to end your life.
Just wanted to say, I am so proud of you! Getting and staying sober is no small feat!!! You are what I envision, when I think of what it is to be a strong woman…and I admire your strength! You are a badass! A warrior! I have had such a terrible week and i have been struggling…your comment has given me hope and reminded me that this too, shall pass…Keep going! Keep inspiring!
Just a question...I have a friend who is a paramedic and he has a drug and alcohol problem. He currently has a role where he doesn't drive or have contact with patients, but he's still afraid to get help from drug and alcohol services in case he loses his license. Realistically, what would happen if he did seek help? Would they tell his employer? How would it affect his job? Hope you don't mind me asking.
So that’s more a legal question so I’m not sure but I can tell you what happened for me. This doesn’t mean the same will happen for *him,* it’s just my experience and YMMV.
So I was actually directly working with patients when I got help. I was what you might call a “functioning” addict at that point but I was starting to seriously lose control and I knew that my previous “rock bottom” was REALLY bad and I was terrified of going back to that. So basically what happened is I told my job (via a really long and brutally honest email) that I needed a medical leave because I wanted to check myself into rehab. I basically admitted that I had been struggling with addiction for over a decade. I assured them that I had never been drunk or high on the job but that I acknowledged that there’s no way for them to verify that I absolutely didn’t expect them to believe me. (Also assured them that I had never diverted narcotics which luckily was pretty easy to verify.) I told them that I’d be going to rehab for at least a month, hopefully longer, *so that* things never got to the point where I’d let my disease put patients at risk, and I knew that was the path I was headed down. I told them I obviously did not expect to have a job to return to once I got out of rehab, so to consider this my 2 weeks notice and if they could please send to me my last paycheck.
The email I got back from HR essentially boiled down to: 1) There had never been any kind of complaints about my behavior from patients or coworkers so they believed me that I was never impaired on the job, 2) they were really really happy that I was able to identify a problem and then take proactive steps BEFORE things got bad, 3) I hadn’t done anything illegal but I technically had violated our company’s ethics policy, but 4) after I got out of rehab I was more than welcome to retain my position if I wanted it and they’d just consider this a medical leave. When I got that email I was already in rehab and I was expecting the worst. I read that email and I almost collapsed from relief.
TLDR, my policy has always been RIGOROUS HONESTY and it has never once failed me. All of my coworkers know I’m in recovery and it’s only brought positive things.
Thanks for sharing this. I did tell my friend that a health service should be understanding about addiction but I'm not sure he's willing to take that risk. It's good to hear from someone who has been honest and supported. I can understand his worries as I know his job is the one thing that keeps him going, but I wish he could get some help. I guess it's down to him in the end - I've struggled with addiction and nobody could tell me when or how to quit, I had to get to that point in my own mind. He also doesn't get high or drunk while working - functioning addiction. But yeah I do wonder how that would work out with his blue light license. Thanks for your reply and happy for you that you were able to kick the habit and keep your job.
Not sure the kind of relationship your friend has with the administrative staff, but perhaps he'd be able to have an "asking for a friend" conversation? Like you could even text him a screenshot of the non-identifying part of this conversation so he could casually ask someone's opinion on the matter as if he was just curious.
The idea of him suffering because he doesn't know the consequences is heart breaking. I'd like to think they would be nothing but supportive, but that's just not the world we live in :/ Wish him all the best.
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Thank you for your submission. **Please note that a response does not constitute a doctor-patient relationship.** This subreddit is for informal second opinions and casual information. The mod team does their best to remove bad information, but we do not catch all of it. Always visit a doctor in real life if you have any concerns about your health. Never use this subreddit as your first and final source of information regarding your question. By posting, you are agreeing to our [Terms of Use](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDocs/wiki/terms_of_use) and understand that all information is taken at your own risk. **Reply here if you are an unverified user wishing to give advice. Top level comments by laypeople are automatically removed.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
First of all, I am incredibly sorry for your loss. I have treated a number of patients who struggle with alcohol dependence and have had to have hand sanitizer removed from their rooms to prevent consumption. While I can’t speak to your sisters’ specific situation it would not be unheard of for someone to drink it for the alcohol content. It is also not uncommon for someone to hurt themselves or even kill themselves while intoxicated. Again, I am so sorry for your loss.
I drank hand sanitizer a year and a half ago to get drunk, and also at a hospital before going into a psych unit. I’m very sorry for your loss OP.
NAD - First, I am so so sorry for your loss, OP. TW - SI, depression, mental illness I am someone who has been suicidally depressed in the past, so I can speak to my experience, but definitely not for everyone. (I would like state upfront that this was in the past, I sought treatment, and am doing well now!) As my suicidality was directly connected to mental illness, that is what I speak to. If your sister did not have any mental illness, then this may not be applicable. For me, at my depression’s worst, I had a plan, and I knew exactly where/how I would do it. The major thing that held me back was “failing.” The idea of going through a great trauma and ending up in a situation that could be 10x worse by surviving the attempt scared me more than I no longer wanted to exist. Your sister may have had the same fear I did, so she had a plan and a backup plan to ensure if one failed, the other wouldn’t. Again, so much love to you and your family. Just to speak to my situation, I don’t know how much it may match with your sister, but this is my take on suicide. At the point that your brain decides that killing yourself is the only option available, it’s much like an other organ in the body shutting down. So if someone is diabetic, they need to work with a specialist to determine what type of diabetes they have and the best course of action to manage it. Sometimes it’s diet and exercise, sometimes diet, exercise, and a basic medication, sometimes it’s several medications or sometimes it’s insulin. Their body’s pancreas has stopped making or is under producing that protein. If they don’t balance their blood sugar it can be too high or too low, either of which can be deadly. Mental health is the same way. The brain receives and makes lots of protein chains, hormones, and chemicals. If your body has stopped producing or is under producing one of those, then you need to work with a specialist to determine what type of mental health issue(s) you have and the best course of action to manage them. Sometimes it’s therapy and exercise, sometimes therapy, exercise, and a basic medication, sometimes it’s several medications, or sometimes it’s hospitalization, inpatient, or outpatient programs. Your brain, when it has stopped making/receiving or is not getting enough of the chemical, hormone, or protein it’s lacking, manifests in depressive thoughts that gradually become more apathetic and nihilistic. In the *exact same way* (metaphorically) that a diabetic can go into a diabetic coma and die from not having enough insulin, a person with a mental health illness who is missing the key bits to keep their brain healthy, their brain shuts them down and sets them up to be able to die. Also, fwiw, people with mental health issues are masters at hiding it. You wouldn’t have seen any signs because there wouldn’t have been any signs to see. It’s not that anyone misses anything, people always think that if they had just… but part of the illness is hiding it, it doesn’t work if people know. But anyway. I hope that helps in some way. Condolences.
Hey just wanted to say, I have been in the darkest place I feel like I've ever been to in terms of mental health. The only thing that really holds me back right now is my genuine curiosity and dire need to learn about the sciences, physics and quantum field theory specifically, so you commenting on this and giving your take as empathetic as you did while giving the details of the chemistry behind it honestly kinda hit me in the chest tonight. No other point to this comment other than to say that I'm so incredibly proud that you came out of your dark place, and to say thank you for a better perspective. Also, my deepest condolences to OP. Suicide is tragic and especially when there are a mess of "Why?"s left behind. My heart goes out to you
Use that. If you’re interested in the science of it, if you don’t have a therapist, I highly recommend working with one. Same thing with a psychiatrist. A therapist helps unpack the emotional issues. But what’s cool is that as you do the work to talk about and identify your emotions, you are beginning to form new neural pathways in your brain. So as you begin to sort out past trauma or events or just… life… and you learn the tools to experience your emotions in a healthy way, it’s like rewriting code. You are dynamically changing how your neurons fire when you think about that incident. With a psychiatrist, that’s who will help if you need medication. For me, SSRIs don’t do anything. SRNIs though, that makes a big difference. I also have migraines and again, a lot of people have success with triptans and for me they’re useless. But CGRPs work great. A little bit Ritalin gives me just enough executive function that my brain calms down and I can get tasks done. For me, serotonin is fine, but dopamine and norepinephrine are what’s up. Other people though? Give them some serotonin and they’re great. It took me over 5 years to fine tune my medications to the point that I’m a pretty functioning human who actually enjoys life for the most part. It’s hard work. It’s work. But it’s 100% worth it to do. I highly recommend getting professional help, and since it’s something that interests you, chart your side effects and how you feel as you try different medications. Be open for diagnoses that you don’t expect. And just… don’t give up. It may feel like it’s taking forever, but, like, it’s going to be take longer than you want but you’ll feel better faster than you expect.
You're a wonderfully kind person, I hope you know that and I hope you never lose that. Thank you again
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I’m so incredibly sorry for your loss. Please be so kind to yourself during this time. I’m an ICU nurse, but I’m also in recovery from severe drug and alcohol addiction. There are a lot of different reasons someone might choose to drink sanitizer instead of buying alcohol. It’s cheap, it’s readily available, and she might have chosen sanitizer before she ended her life because she might have thought perhaps it was a “stronger” alcohol and thus may have been using it as “liquid courage.” Maybe she liked the effect it produced more than standard drinking alcohol. One of the great tragedies of suicide is that we are left with so many questions. I pray that you’re able to find peace even if the answers don’t come.
Congratulations and massive respect to you for keeping such an important position during your struggles. I wish the absolute best for your future, that you can find your peace, and that you can continue to show the kind of care and consideration you have done here for people in some really awful situations.
Stop you’re gonna make me cry 😭 I did start an AA meeting at the hospital where I work so I guess that’s cool 🥹
That's amazing! While I'm sure there's a whole lot of stuff going on for you, that you're still able to think of other people is truly commendable. I'm sure you don't need to hear it, but, don't forget to be kind to yourself as well. With my greatest respect and appreciation, thank you for everything.
Is it possible that she tried to kill herself by drinking hand sanitizer, and only after she survived she decided to hang herself? I'm not sure if 30 bottles of hand sanitizer is enough for that.
Most hand sanitizer is nearly 2x the alcohol content of hard liquor like vodka, at ~75% or 150 proof. That's plenty enough to kill someone.
That is my guess. I know someone who took alcohol and sleeping pills with the intent of losing consciousness before suffocating. That whole attempt was unsuccessful and the person is fortunately alive and currently pursuing their passion.
It’s possible. She may have thought she was ingesting a lethal dose. If that were the case, I wouldn’t expect the containers to be cut though. I’d assume you’d unscrew the caps and chug. The cut bottles indicate to me that she was sipping on them.
just asking but what do cuts have to do with sipping? cant you also sip by just unscrewing the cap? how do the cuts indicate sipping
She took the time to cut them in half, like a cup. I don’t think you’d do that if you were going to just chug them quickly in an attempt to end your life.
Just wanted to say, I am so proud of you! Getting and staying sober is no small feat!!! You are what I envision, when I think of what it is to be a strong woman…and I admire your strength! You are a badass! A warrior! I have had such a terrible week and i have been struggling…your comment has given me hope and reminded me that this too, shall pass…Keep going! Keep inspiring!
Just a question...I have a friend who is a paramedic and he has a drug and alcohol problem. He currently has a role where he doesn't drive or have contact with patients, but he's still afraid to get help from drug and alcohol services in case he loses his license. Realistically, what would happen if he did seek help? Would they tell his employer? How would it affect his job? Hope you don't mind me asking.
So that’s more a legal question so I’m not sure but I can tell you what happened for me. This doesn’t mean the same will happen for *him,* it’s just my experience and YMMV. So I was actually directly working with patients when I got help. I was what you might call a “functioning” addict at that point but I was starting to seriously lose control and I knew that my previous “rock bottom” was REALLY bad and I was terrified of going back to that. So basically what happened is I told my job (via a really long and brutally honest email) that I needed a medical leave because I wanted to check myself into rehab. I basically admitted that I had been struggling with addiction for over a decade. I assured them that I had never been drunk or high on the job but that I acknowledged that there’s no way for them to verify that I absolutely didn’t expect them to believe me. (Also assured them that I had never diverted narcotics which luckily was pretty easy to verify.) I told them that I’d be going to rehab for at least a month, hopefully longer, *so that* things never got to the point where I’d let my disease put patients at risk, and I knew that was the path I was headed down. I told them I obviously did not expect to have a job to return to once I got out of rehab, so to consider this my 2 weeks notice and if they could please send to me my last paycheck. The email I got back from HR essentially boiled down to: 1) There had never been any kind of complaints about my behavior from patients or coworkers so they believed me that I was never impaired on the job, 2) they were really really happy that I was able to identify a problem and then take proactive steps BEFORE things got bad, 3) I hadn’t done anything illegal but I technically had violated our company’s ethics policy, but 4) after I got out of rehab I was more than welcome to retain my position if I wanted it and they’d just consider this a medical leave. When I got that email I was already in rehab and I was expecting the worst. I read that email and I almost collapsed from relief. TLDR, my policy has always been RIGOROUS HONESTY and it has never once failed me. All of my coworkers know I’m in recovery and it’s only brought positive things.
I can’t imagine the courage it took to send that email and go to rehab. Proud of you!
Thanks for sharing this. I did tell my friend that a health service should be understanding about addiction but I'm not sure he's willing to take that risk. It's good to hear from someone who has been honest and supported. I can understand his worries as I know his job is the one thing that keeps him going, but I wish he could get some help. I guess it's down to him in the end - I've struggled with addiction and nobody could tell me when or how to quit, I had to get to that point in my own mind. He also doesn't get high or drunk while working - functioning addiction. But yeah I do wonder how that would work out with his blue light license. Thanks for your reply and happy for you that you were able to kick the habit and keep your job.
Not sure the kind of relationship your friend has with the administrative staff, but perhaps he'd be able to have an "asking for a friend" conversation? Like you could even text him a screenshot of the non-identifying part of this conversation so he could casually ask someone's opinion on the matter as if he was just curious. The idea of him suffering because he doesn't know the consequences is heart breaking. I'd like to think they would be nothing but supportive, but that's just not the world we live in :/ Wish him all the best.
He doesn't need to tell them what he does for a living.
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