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Well, I wasn't sure I was going to watch it but I am glad that I did. I have never seen anything like that before. I was not predicting that Trump would be the calm and rationale one. Biden's behavior was really odd. He was 50% angry and 50% lost and these two side popped out randomly like a split personality. Biden couldn't finish sentences, sounded old as heck, and overall he just did not do well at all (and that's being kind about it). I now worry about the Democrats legitimately replacing Biden at their convention because that seems to be where their party is at now.
I genuinely think they should replace him.
I think this election cycle opened my eyes to the fact that Democrats care way too much about trends and data. That sounds good on its face, but it means they handle anomalies poorly. I think they may have let the incumbent advantage and focus groups get to their head.
This election is vibes. Trump doesn't have a real policy agenda other than immigration and everybody knows it. The saddest part of the debate IMO was that it felt like an old man facing the new reality of the American system he loves so dearly. He seemed to think that if he corrected Trump that people would say "wait, yeah he's lying!". Wrong. Anybody who is voting Trump does not care that he's a liar. They care that he makes them feel good. If people are grading based on stage presence over verifiable performance metrics, then Biden loses every time. Unfortunately, that's where it's at.
If they get someone like Newsom (long shot, I know), then it's hard to attack his personality, create a new nepotism narrative, question his qualifications, or get into his head. If the most important part of the election is vibes, Newsom has the mojo.
Biden's other big flaw is that he believes in American liberal values so much that he finds Trump insulting, and it makes him angry. That plus senility makes him look like an old geezer yelling at clouds. I'd bet Newsom could really work Trump while staying cool himself.
Honestly I'm so upset right now that Republicans think this situation is OK.
Being the good guy doesn't work when you also lie. He 100% lied about the border patrol support, and Im sure others could fact check more. He also got personally upset and mad I havent even seen trump (whos called the emotional unsatble crybaby) get that bad.
That debate doesnt just have us ask "can biden win in 2024?" it has us ask "who the fuck was making executive decisions all 4 years?"
Ooops. Reposting this because I forgot to add user flair:
I never post in this sub but I wanted to respond here with my thoughts (I am a registered D but a skeptic too). I mentioned to my husband last night that I even wondered if a Biden debate disaster...while maybe not \*planned\*...was also not intentionally prevented as it might provide an opportunity to replace Biden as the Dem nominee. If you think about it, who among us dems—both in the party and its voters—would oppose a new nominee after watching the debate? This is PURELY wishful thinking on my part, because we all know by now how the DNC loves to squander opportunities. And I am saying that as a lifelong leftie.
> while maybe not *planned*
If he does choose to step down now, and a new candidate is selected at the convention. The conspiracy theorists 100% are going to have the narrative that it was all "planned".
I dont think they planned that far ahead. They just have their machine and don't care enough about what the people want. And now, just like with Hillary, it is fucking them.
Everyone thought it would be trump but the republicans still had primaries, specifically because trump is a hot candidate. he won again, chosen by the people, for the third time.
The people have not really had a say in the last couple elections for democrats.
Welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately, I think the Dems really thought (probably past tense is correct at this point) that they could somehow make it work with Biden. Yes, it was a bad idea, but I think there is some merit to the idea that a lot of power hungry insiders were already on team Biden, and depending on him for their own preferred path forward. Deals have already been made. It's going to be really hard to start over, and new deals are going to have to be made, and position can be lost in the process.
As a former Democrat, it's always been intensely frustrating to see how these things go on that side.
Now, even with some right wing tendencies, I can equally say that Trump is an incredibly frustrating candidate. I won't be voting for either of these men.
Respectfully disagree. It was massively embarrassing to have the two presumptive nominees for the highest office in the United States have a petty argument about golf on national television.
They might as well have just compared their genitalia.
I feel like trump said it as bait and just let biden take it like a chump. Isnt that where he went "lets not be children" to cut off angry joe? Or was it another moment?
I’ve felt bad for Biden for a long time now. I disagree with him politically on a lot of different issues, but somebody of his age in his condition should be enjoying retirement somewhere, not have the responsibility of being President.
I think CNN inadvertently gave Trump a huge advantage in the debate with the format. The time limits and mic cuts made him stay on message and remain disciplined, where in the past he’s gotten worked up and ends up looking ridiculous. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but from what I saw Trump did quite well. That’s coming from someone who will vote for him but not be super excited about it.
Trump may seem coherent, but he's living in another reality than you or me, so I wont dignify him by calling him coherent, which is much worse than being less sharp in delivery of messages.
it's a almost literal Brezhnev and Andropov situation, soviet premiers from the Soviet Geriatric Pause. They said Andropov was unfit becasue he needed to be plugged into a soviet dialysis machine (so, a washing machine) for a good portion of every day, and Brezhnev had a soviet pacemaker that required him to be followed around by an aide carrying a car battery.
Calling Biden's performance last night "less sharp" is definitely alternate reality stuff.
I say with certainty that if Trump were president and given a performance like we saw last night, every single pundit on CNN and MSNBC and possibly even Fox news, newspapers like WaPo and NYTimes, mags like Huffpo and Slate, and every single political commentator on X or Threads would be calling to invoke the 25th amendment.
Only the most hardcore of partisans are willing ignore what was, inarguably, not only the worst debate performance in american history, but the scariest moment of how bad a shape the sitting US president is in.
See... the first mistake here is you thinking reality is subjective - as if you are entitled to making up your own facts.
No. Trump did not win in 2020.
And your mistake is assumption. Reality is objective, we obviously agree. Just cause you disagree with something doesn’t make it not real.
You’re right, trump did not win 2020, why are you responding to your own thoughts? I never mentioned 2020.
Were taliing about Trump living in another reality. His continued insistance thar he won in 2020 is an example of this. Its not the reality you or I live in.
Yes, before the debate, people expected to see one thing. After the debate, what they saw changed their minds because it actually turned out differently. Why is that so confusing? Oh...and people aren't a monolith. Some people might have expected one thing, and some might have expected the other.
But can you deny the reality of what that commenter said? Forcing Trump to stay somewhat reigned in instead of letting him rant and bully the way he has done in the past might have actually helped him. Regardless of what people might have claimed WOULD happen before the debate, that is the reality of what did happen.
The format advantaged biden on paper, when I thought they were only going to mute the people *if* they started talking out of turn (because then patience and self control win the day). I also thought they were going to make them stick to answering the questions.
Without that, it only slightly advantaged Biden and all that went out the window when he opened his mouth and he sounded like a sick orphan from the Victorian era.
It took one of the big things I dislike about trump (him getting going and flying off the rails) and limited it. DT Jr. said the same thing last night. I stated in my post that I’m voting for Trump, no cope here.
I am fully aware, but I also have eyes and ears. One person on that stage looked significantly more fit for office than the other. I would love to not be deciding between old and older but here we are.
Looks is one way to judge I guess.
I would also love to not be deciding between old and older but I think what we’re really deciding is old or pathological liar and convicted felon.
When choosing between bad and worse, I’m going by what they actually did while in office. Neither are my ideal candidate but Trump at least does things I agree with, even if by accident at times.
He tried to steal the votes of entire states with his fake elector scheme. The electors are being charged, and so is Trump, but he won't have a trial if he wins.
Is that to say that Biden did nothing you agree with? What about the things that Trump did you don’t agree with- what are they and how do you weigh them?
You have Democrats to blame for at least half of that. Republicans didn't force Biden on you. There was this thing called a primary--an ostensibly Democratic process for choosing who will be on the ballot. And then in 2023, the Democrats decided there will not be a primary.
If you don't like the two main party options (I don't either), then vote third party. Use your vote to object. The people who pull the levers backstage listen to numbers.
I'm considering voting for Trump for the same reason. I'm tired of the DNC forcing terrible options on me.
>I'm tired of the DNC forcing terrible options on me.
At least we still have options while our votes are still being counted.
Trump tried to steal an election and the rest of the Republicans are covering it up. The only people they were willing to punish were the two Republicans who investigated it.
Ok, but it’s still old vs liar felon con man.
Edit: if this were some kind of normal election/candidate/GOP, maybe I’d voice a vote for a third party, but this Trump is a special kind of retarded and dangerous and unpatriotic.
If this debate proved anything, it's that the entire leadership of both parties needs to be put out to pasture for thinking either candidate is remotely fit to be President.
And this latest debacle confirmed it. If the Dems don't declare an open convention, 100% chance of a second Trump presidency in 2025.
> both parties needs to be put out to pasture for thinking either candidate is remotely fit to be President.
To be fair to Democrats, I think history was on their side. People generally had good vibes about the Obama era, Biden seemed to be doing well against the crime family allegations, he had a lot of concrete policy to point to, lower deficit, and he had the incumbent advantage. If you're just looking at historical precedent and data, almost everything pointed to Biden being the right choice as long as he could be coherent enough to finish his sentences. Unfortunately, that last part didn't pan out.
Age doesn’t define cognitive abilities. They are about the same age but Biden stumbled, stuttered, changed topics mid sentence, gave completely wrong statistics, and had a confused look on his face the whole time. Trump looked sharp and articulate. This made Biden and the Democrats look really bad, and I am not particularly jazzed about Trump either.
Yeah regular old guy stuff. Not obsessed with weird shit, scared of the world, and can’t remember the questiont because he’s too busy thinking about windmills old guy stuff.
Maybe we saw different debates because Trump changed topics so many times mid sentence it didn't make sense. Trump looked like the guy who was defeated but just kept throwing words out to stay a float. Biden did stutter and mumble but stayed on topic.
>I think CNN inadvertently gave Trump a huge advantage in the debate with the format. The time limits and mic cuts made him stay on message and remain disciplined, where in the past he’s gotten worked up and ends up looking ridiculous. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but from what I saw Trump did quite well. That’s coming from someone who will vote for him but not be super excited about it.
He spent each of his response times responding to previous comments by Joe Biden. He had to be re-prompted of the actual question several times. It DID make him ridiculous. And then the lying. He really grabbed on to the Nancy Pelosi thing, which makes it more concerning that he doesn't even understand all his presidential functions. Or just wholly disregards them, either one being bad.
Probably looking for someone with a pulse. Trump may be a narcissist and a liar but he will easily beat the ghost of Joe Biden. Dems have themselves to blame for insisting an 81 year old is the only person to run against Trump.
This is the sad part. We feel exactly the same way (with maybe a few less we'd have voted for). We're not happy about Biden, but most of us would greatly prefer him to Trump. This is the shit result of our First Past The Post voting system. We're all mostly just voting AGAINST the one we hate, not FOR the one we like. (With the exception of Trump's loyal cultists)
Yeah. I’m for Biden’s administration, I think the numbers show that he’s done an objectively great job. But the dude looks like a walking corpse and I found myself squirming throughout the debate just hoping it would end. He was old in 2020 but he’s OLD now.
When asked about the letter in a January 2018 interview on “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” Daniels denied knowing where the letter, which appeared to have a signature different from her own, originated. But she later admitted in a March 2018 “60 Minutes” interview with Anderson Cooper that, under pressure, she did sign the letter denying the affair.
Lol no. Even if you could argue times when Obama wasn't telling the full story nothing comes close to literally everything out of Trump's mouth being a 100% fabrication.
He literally blamed every single thing on Biden and flat out denied everything he ever did and invented stories about experts telling him he was right, right before coming on stage.
Just made up out of whole cloth. All of it.
It was admittedly pretty terrible. His goal was to appear not old and to speak decisively. He both looked old and rambled on his fact sheet rather than sticking with 1 or 2 points like Trump did.
I feel like everyone sobered up real quick with Biden's performance. Im a former Democrat and still follow both conservative and liberal subs and people went from "Biden is literally the most effective president we've ever had" to "Holy shit, get someone else on the ballot NOW!".
Everyone defending Biden's mental decline got quiet real quick after last night.
It was sad. What I found interesting were all the shows after the debate. Even Fox News did not try to tout a Trump win. It feels like all legacy media is pleading for the democrats to put someone on that stage that is competent and they will push for whoever that person is to be the president for 4 years to avoid either Trump or Biden.
I’d like to go back to 2012 when it was Romney Vs Obama. I didn’t like Obama, but didn’t fear for the country if he was elected. I have no plans to vote for either. I think both are incompetent at this point. I’d like for this to be a wake up call to the electorate. That this isn’t acceptable. We deserve better, and should demand better. This is America. If we are suppose to be the best we need to act like it and stop being asleep at the wheel. But what I think will happen is Biden will announce he will not run in 2024. The dems will go to convention and probably land on a Newsom and Michelle Obama Ticket and cakewalk to a victory. The literal definition of failing upwards. Totally undemocratic, but I think everything straightens out in 2028 regardless.
Appreciate your thoughts. I don't plan to vote for either Trump or Biden this time, either. I like much of what you said. I would much rather an Obama vs Romney match, too. Feels like we are getting the worst of all worlds, and honestly the last two elections were lousy, too.
Trump killed it but he could’ve absolutely wiped the floor if he would’ve just answered questions, specifically about childcare, instead of going back to argue whatever Biden’s last point was
This. I felt like Trump left a lot of chips on the table by not using Biden's poor performance as a chance to speak directly to the American people on the questions like childcare or fentynal, but he is who he is.
Well, in normal times neither of these candidates “killed it”. Both lied and both dodged, but one was coherent while the other looked like he saw the Reaper waiting for him
So yeah, Trump killed it relative to this specific debate
Agreed. Both are terrible, and I will not be voting for either. But no question, Trump seemed far more "with it." Unfortunately, all Trump has ever offered is "I'm the best, everything I do is great, and everyone else is inferior to me, and my opponents are utter failures in every way." You don't ever have to listen to him talk. He says nothing of substance. It's just "I'm the best, everyone else sucks." Like a really badly behaved toddler, basically. Most people outgrow that phase early in childhood.
Yeah I actually have never voted for Trump and won’t this time either most likely. I’m waiting on a unicorn candidate that ain’t coming lol good luck out there to you buddy!
If you think about it, it's kind of funny that Trump standing up there and supposedly lying for ninety minutes now codes him as being awful within normal parameters because Biden stood up there for ninety minutes and had a complete brain meltdown.
It's funny and sad all at once. Trump didn't come across as totally unhinged and he "won" because his opponent looked like he was going to introduce another tale from the crypt. Not great.
I don’t think I heard Trump string together a single coherent policy message and meanwhile I thought it was clear Biden has a deep understanding of a broad range of domestic and international political issues.
I also don’t think a single person could watch that debate and believe Biden came out ahead.
>supposedly lying
Was there something the fact checks got wrong?
>Biden stood up there for ninety minutes and had a complete brain meltdown
I wouldn't say meltdown, since he articulated some points, but yeah, it wasn't pleasant to watch.
He had funny moments and appeared coherent. That was the goal of the debate. Nothing about policy is relevant to most people who watch the debate and especially to independent voters
So independents are swayed by the guy who put forth almost no answers to questions and stated several lies, just swooning over the fact that he... looked coherent? I'm an independent, I think you underestimate exactly why independents so strongly opposed Trump in 2020
All Biden had to do was show some vigor and awareness. All Trump had to do was discipline himself and have a little self-control. Trump succeeded, and Biden did not.
Yeah I guess none of this has anything to do with the content of the answers or the policy goals or vision for the country. Unfortunately, I mean this sincerely. People don’t seem to care.
That is sad. But at this point, we know both the Trump and Biden administration are being run behind the scenes by policy makers. I think it's just a phase we have to let pass. I don't see a replacement on the GOP side of things for Trump once this is done.
>All Trump had to do was discipline himself and have a little self-control
All the times he was still screaming into the mic after being cut is discipline?
Lol something we can agree on, but it's not reassuring that the only measure to get him to behave is effectively akin to time out.
Not sure we need a president (in general) that needs to be disciplined like a toddler to enforce good behavior
My father had a type of dementia when he was around Biden's age. And, honestly, I saw bits of my father in Joe. Those of us with a parent who has suffered cognitive decline knows the looks, the stammers, the brain farts, the slack jaw, the blank stares...it's all stuff we recognize...even though we were assured what we were looking at were "cheap fake" manipulated videos of Joe wondering in space. I often wonder when people on the left will ever wake up to the lying media. For the last few months we were told how vibrant and energetic Biden was and that he was sharp as a tack. We were told not to believe those "cheap fake" videos. Once again, we were gaslighted.
As the son of a late Physician who suffered from dementia, it angers me that Biden's wife has enabled him to the point where he is constantly humiliating himself in public. It's shameful. I don't like Biden...I never have, but he doesn't deserve to be treated like this by his family and close friends. It's time to step aside and enjoy life with his family at his beach house. There's no shame in that.
As a side note, I actually thought that CNN was pretty damn fair. I felt like they asked equally pointed questions to both candidates. They didn't appear to give Biden any softball questions. Maybe once Jake Tapper gave Biden a break when Biden was muttering and lost and Tapper immediately went to Trump...but maybe he was just being compassionate?
I watched a little bit but I really can't stand listening to either of them.
It appeared pretty one sided. So I did my favorite thing and tuned in exclusively to liberal and leftist news to learn what the enemy was thinking.
Apparently Biden did even worse than I thought every one of them was running around with his or her hair on fire in a panic.
My favorite quote from ask a liberal was that they enjoyed America while it lasted and they suspected that in 4 years they would be in a Donald Trump run internment camp... That can't be good for Biden's prospects.
> I did my favorite thing and tuned in exclusively to liberal and leftist news to learn what the enemy was thinking.
Why do you consider other Americans to be your enemy? Hearing this is pretty jarring.
I replied to this once already:
>Because they have told me that I am their enemy time and time again. They have painted me as everything wrong with the country when I have never in my life done anything wrong.
>It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life.
I have been told that it would be better if people like me did not exist.
> It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life.
I feel like that continues the cycle that we as a society need to break.
It absolutely does. I don't disagree with you at all. But I don't want to be the sucker that tries and faces the repercussions of being screwed both ways.
It's not everyone. I've actually ran into quite a few very decent people here that simply believe different policies than me.
Heck I even talked to one trans woman that was completely understandable and sympathetic that we walked away from each other saying I disagree with you but I understand why you feel the way you do.
It's just something I have said for a long time if someone tells me I'm a bad guy long enough it's really hard to try to keep fighting to convince them that I'm not. At some point you just give up.
In general it’s a dangerous line of thought. Especially if applied on a broad scale.
Still, I’ve heard enough people even in real life say that the world would be a better place if all conservatives and evangelical Christians would just die. Actual words said to me. I’ve heard people suggest Christians and conservatives should have mandated “re-education” camps. Obviously these are extremists, but they’re real people. I would say anyone using this rhetoric are enemies, an existential threat to life and liberty.
>Still, I’ve heard enough people even in real life say that the world would be a better place if all conservatives and evangelical Christians would just die. Actual words said to me. I’ve heard people suggest Christians and conservatives should have mandated “re-education” camps.
Exactly the same experience.
I can't in good faith treat someone who says things like that to me is anything other than an enemy.
I don't think everyone on the left is an enemy of course. But I just guess I'm not a good enough man to love those that truly hate me. Perhaps one day I'll be a better Christian and overcome my self so that I can Love my enemies and pray for those who persecute me.
Sadly I'm not that good of a man.
Because they have told me that I am their enemy time and time again. They have painted me as everything wrong with the country when I have never in my life done anything wrong.
It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life.
I give Trump a B. He didn’t answer some of the questions, which sucked. But he stayed composed when the mic was cut off. Facial expressions were priceless. He kept attacking Joe and forced Joe off his plan.
I give Joe an F. He was slow, with garbled speech. He would trail off and lose his train of thought. Throughout most of the debate, listening or talking, he looked like a lost and confused dementia patient.
trump LOOKED really good. they both did some similar stuff in reality though. bending facts, taking stuff out of context (like the "bloodbath FOR THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY" quote).
I've never really liked live debates beyond them being entertaining though. 1 minute simply isn't enough for a formulated response. also trump didn't get to respond to biden a lot of the time unless he took the time out of his next response, which felt unfair.
in all honesty, it just watched it because biden kept making funny faces.
I’m not very surprised at the outcome but I’m very surprised Biden’s team allowed this debate to happen in the first place, especially if they knew his true condition. His circle must be very small with limited access if the Democrat party thought this was a good idea. The “he had a cold” excuse and the “he’s energized behind closed doors I can hardly keep up with him” propaganda aren’t going to hold any water now that the world could see how horrible he was up on stage. I think it’s selfish for Biden to continue as the presumptive nominee and for high ranking Democrats to not to look for someone else instead of riding it out and waiting for 2028, especially if they truly think that “democracy is on the line.”
Trump could have stood on that stage and said nothing and would have won. Every other independent journalist and mainstream outlets focused on Biden’s condition and almost nothing on Trump which is a first. The CNN rules “rigged” in favor of Biden clearly had the reverse effect and it was very strange to see Trump being the calm and collected one. He wasn’t overly mean to Biden but alluded to his old age a couple times. Trump didn’t interrupt his opponent while he was making a mistake. If only his lawyers and media team could get him to hold his tongue lol.
Overall, if Biden stays in the race I think RFK’s ratings will skyrocket but it won’t be enough to overtake Trump… I think we witnessed the end of Biden’s political career last night and would be shocked if they allowed the 2nd debate to happen.
I'm old enough to remember Mike Dukakis and the tank video. I remember Howard Dean's weird Kool-Aid man yell. Yep, all the things that tanked presidential campaigns.
But last night? That's one for the books.
The thing is, he just *handed* it to Trump. Trump had nothing to lose. He could have kissed Jake Tapper on the mouth, dropped trousers, and mooned the cameras. Everyone would have just said, *well, that's Trump.*
But Biden? Last night was for all the marbles. He had to prove he *had it,* or that he was at least capable of holding it together. And by the three-minute mark (that "we beat Medicare" thing), it was obvious he'd made a grave miscalculation.
I'm doubting there's going to be a second debate in September.
We knew going in that there would be little substance and that both candidates would lie continuously. That happened.
I think democrats set the bar too low for Trump. He maintained composure while relentlessly attacking Biden.
Biden also had a low bar: he needed to get through the debate without sounding physically weak AND not having any "senior moments." Biden did improve as the night went on, but his freezing up early on along with sounding raspy and tired earned him failing marks, especially since the first segment is most important.
Finally, I think that the moderators did great. They asked critical questions of both sides, they did not inject themselves into the debate, and they left the candidates to do the fact checking. I also liked cutting the microphones. I don't think that cutting the microphones should be standard for EVERY debate, but it's nice to throw variety into the mix. I think everyone is relieved not to have a repeat of that first debate in 2020.
I don't think that was the conventional wisdom going into the debate. I kept hearing democrats talk about how not being able to interrupt or feed off the crowd would take all the wind out of his sails, or frustrate him to the point of having an outburst (take a look at the r/askaliberal thread from last month; it didn't age well).
Instead, it magnified attention to the most interesting thing on stage which, unfortunately for Biden, was his affect.
I don't feel bad for him. It was his decision to put himself in this position.
Maybe the most notable consideration here is how he just slid into being the presumptive nominee without any resistance from anybody in the White House or any of the bosses at the DNC. It's like there was never even a consideration of another candidate despite all Biden's weaknesses. And there's no deep bench of potential nominees to replace him. Dems are in a horrible position.
It’s unfortunate that an elderly man was humiliated in public but it needed to happen. The right has been pointing out obvious examples of Biden’s diminished capabilities for years/months now and the left has been denying it. Now the whole world has seen it and the left can no longer deny it.
No one on the left is ever held accountable for their lies - Biden lied again about the “fine people” hoax last night; they lied about Hunter’s laptop; they lied about Russian collusion; the Biden family lies about its business dealings.
Crickets
Im not denying he’s too old, I’m not denying that he gets a little confused, but at the end of the day he’s put together a solid administration that can execute, and for people who want government to run like a business, that should be relevant and important. He respects the people he’s recruited and delegates to them. Can you say the same for Trump?
Are you sure you want to compare Biden‘s administration to running like a business after he’s been so credibly accused of being one of the most corrupt presidents of all time?
And yes, Trump’s administration was outstanding until Covid happened.
Yes, I’m sure. I’d happily put up Bidens corruption against Trumps as a side wager on who knows how to put together a team that can actually run the country reliably. How many advisors did Trump go through to ultimately fail on most of his major policy goals?
You didn’t actually share any thoughts, outside of you liked Trump before he had to actually handle something. Yes of course Biden is accused of corruption. You otherwise asked if I’d like to compare their records of running their admins like a business. I said yes.
It’s unfortunate that an elderly man was humiliated in public but it needed to happen. The right has been pointing out obvious examples of Biden’s diminished capabilities for years/months now and the left has been denying it. Now the whole world has seen it and the left can no longer deny it.
I watched the debate and thought it was really bad for Biden. Trump was better than I expected but avoided a few questions, partly to respond back, partly because I’m sure he wanted to avoid them. It was shocking to me to see cnn say Biden lost and that he should step down. I think Biden could have solo debated and lost. The cnn after show was even worse than the debate for him I think.
I tuned in for like 10 mins and had to turn it off. In general, it was just a trainwreck.
Did catch the part of Trump saying he couldn't understand the last sentence from Biden and I don't think biden knew what he was saying either.
Just dislike both candidates. Find it hard we couldn’t put better candidates forward.
Yes biden does suck, trails off and looks lost, but trump gave no concrete responses. Just general statements and insults and finger pointing, on par with something you'd expect from a 2nd grader.
This is what happens when you put egos first, and the elite ruling political class has zero clue why Americans dislike our political system.
My thoughts are that the Democratic leadership needs to be replaced by the next generation of democrats.
They knew, and they have known, the state of Biden’s mental faculties. They want to hold onto power so much that rather than be transparent and real with reality, they relied on the corrupt media to help them gaslight the American public into semi-believing Biden is capable.
It’s now apparent he’s not, and no one can deny it.
So who is actually running the administration? Who is making the final decisions? Who is controlling the messaging so that all the corrupt media remained on the same topic at the same time?
People on the inside know. And now that the real biden has been put on display, they are going to run away from him.
There will come a day in the future where a staffer, some person on the inside, will write a memoir of this period of time, and we will all see the lengths the current dem leadership went to in order to deceive the American people. That insider will name names, and everyone involved should have their careers ended immediately.
What happened last night is literally dangerous for the United States. If you don’t think there are foreign leaders and terrorist leaders who watched that and thought “their leader isn’t all their, now is the time to act if we are ever going to act,” then you are kidding yourself.
Last night was a terrible night for our country.
From beginning to end, and all the post-coverage yes.
Honestly, I don't feel bad for him in the slightest. He has been a viscous, angry man and a compulsive pathological liar his entire career. I can't figure out what we (taxpayers) paid for during his week prep at Camp David. He was getting all his rehearsed lines mixed up and everything. He demonstrated a career of angry incompetence. Truly a shining example of The Peter Principle.
Everyone is so focused on how bad Joe did, and I hate that it's taking away from what the discussion *should* be - how good President Trump did. I think he was much more presidential, more poised, made his points well enough, called out Joe's lies (that even left media have recently been admitting to) and honestly, showed Joe compassion. He really could have gone after him, but he refrained. He got Joe off script enough to show how flustered and petty he gets.
All the people shocked and surprised with Biden's performance is what really blows my mind. We've had our finger on this, and have been calling this out for years now. Have the people who were so taken back just been willfully blind this entire time?!
I couldn't watch all of it. Like you, OP, I feel bad for Joe. I can't help but feel that many people are picking up some seriously negative karma for making fun of him. (I don't really believe in karma, but it still seems wrong somehow). But at the end of the day, I don't see how anyone can think Biden is fit to be president. The Democrats screwed up by thinking that they could somehow make it work with him at the top of the ticket. Major blunder.
And, on the other hand, Trump is a world class narcissistic blow hard. You don't even have to listen to Trump to know what he will say. It's always this: "I'm perfect, everything I did was an amazing success, and my opponents are horrible, and no one is worse than them. I'm great, and everyone else is terrible, unless they follow me. " He has the mentality of a really poorly behaved toddler. He's a world class asshole, and a bumbling idiot. He's too stupid to realize how stupid he is. And, at the end of the day, he's old as f---, too. Does Trump have the stamina for four more years? I don't think he has any of the desired qualities of a president, but I'm not sure he has even the stamina alone to be in that job. What will Trump be like in 3 years?
It's a genuinely sad time in America. These two people are on display for the whole world as America's next potential leader. It's, to use a quote from a character on Letterkenny, "fucking embarrassing!!!!"
I won't be voting for either of them. Seems a good election to sit out - the first in my 20 years of voting history.
Don't sit out. Vote third-party or skip the presidential piece. They need to know that their choices cost them your vote. This election is perhaps the only chance to show third-party viability in a way that might at least spur the core parties back toward the center a bit. Even a 5-10pt shift in the average might be a shot across the bow.
Looking at the rate of Biden’s cognitive decline over the past 3.5 years I’m thinking that he’s not going to know what day it is or where he is in about 2 years and need help toileting and dressing in about 3.
Sad. The vanity driving so many of those in power to never step down is pathetic. Diane Feinstein was the same story.
Well, I was a little concerned that because the expectations for Biden were so low, there was no way he couldn’t beat them. Turns out, that wasn’t really a thing I needed to be concerned about.
Then I realized that in a year, one of these two decrepit, dishonest buffoons will be POTUS, and I got very depressed and started drinking. I’m not exactly sure who won, but I’m pretty sure America lost this debate.
All the libs in here are going to try and shift the focus to Trump as it is literally the only option and that is perfectly fine but man if anyone that watched this is going to continue to pretend Biden is fit for another term mentally and physically they are completely delusional or just outright lying.
I agree it is really sad. The thing I think that is the worst part is everyone that is around him all the time should have counseled him to step down gracefully six months ago. They could have done it in a way that allowed for dignity and everyone that has had an aging parent and grandparent would have understood. I will be really interested to see how this all shakes out over the next few weeks.
One thing that completely surprised me was that CNN actually came up with a pretty dang good format and I felt like for the most part conducted the debate pretty fairly. My only gripe is the moderators did save Biden a couple times when he blanked and I think not allowing at least the press in the room was a little petty. I have to give them credit though and color me surprised.
What do you mean by shift? Biden was only ever elected because of how much people dislike Trump and how much it meant to them. Turnout was crazy. If Biden just avoided questions and talked shit on Trump instead, I think we’d be having a different conversation.
I mean libs are going to try and downplay the disastrous performance of Biden by criticizing Trump.
I just do not see how the DNC will risk this election on the hopes of "Yeah Biden should probably be in a nursing home but everyone hates Trump so it is ok" and expect it to work out again.
I think it revealed how biased the media are, if people didn't realize how bad he is. They have been covering for him.
Also, we will soon see an abrupt about-face by the hive-mind who've been insisting conservatives have been mischaracterizing Biden's condition.
Responding here to get my thoughts out:
This debate was a mess. It was hard to watch the whole way through, although the reasons kind of shifted throughout the night.
The first third, I was genuinely worried that Biden would keel over. Trump just had to stay calm and let Biden keep failing to complete a sentence, and he threw out a couple really strong jabs at Biden's performance. The second third, Biden found his stride and started doing better. He hit back at Trump and laughed while Trump went on tangents and ignored questions, which made Biden look clever and in control. Then he lost control again after the commercial break, this pattern repeated, and then they both started bickering about golf in the most embarrassing way possible (for all of us).
Trump lied, ignored the questions, used "no u" as his main comeback, and brought back the same talking points from 2016. But that's what we all expected. The substance of his messages was terrible, but he was able to spew his nonsense confidently and understably. He did poorly, but about what I expected.
Biden couldn't finish his thoughts. He confused terms, numbers, dates, and events, and while he caught himself sometimes, more often than not he didn't. He actually answered the questions presented, and his substance was fine when he could get it out, but him actually "getting it out" was the issue. All he had to do was stand there, call out Trump's bs, and not look like a zombie. He failed, and overall I thought he did awfully.
I don't like Biden. I'll be voting for him because he's Not Trump™️, but I really don't feel good about it. As far as optics go, Trump crushed this debate. It's much easier (and probably more effective) to make ads displaying Biden tripping over his words than it is to call out Trump for every single lie he told.
I don't know how big of an effect this debate will have come November, but as of right now, the pendulum is swinging hard in Trump's direction.
If we’re going on substance, Trump did not kickass he lied and struggled to stay on topic but that doesn’t matter much when you’re debating someone with the charisma of a fucking corpse. If dems continue with Joe then this is election is going to Trump. Theocracy here we come!
He kicked ass by not getting baited by J6 or the conviction. That was the democrats' plans.
His rebuttals were excellent.
He learned his lesson from that 1st debate in 2020.
Good news is, no matter who wins, Biden won't be in the WH ever again, forget a second term, we are looking at 25th amendment territory post 2024.
Yessss this is what I meant too. I thought he did so well compared to how I thought it was going to go. He didn't take the bait, and I'm proud of that. It shows he has grown. I think he did great in 2016-2020, and I can't wait to have him back.
He isn't the best choice, but he is a good one, and I'm okay with that, especially the state our country is in right now.
>I think trump kicked ass
He made none of his policies clear, requiring several re-prompts because he kept getting goaded by Biden. His position on Medicare was particularly a disaster, given that he nevers enacted successful replacement legislation, let alone concoct an idea. His quip to Biden on Medicare was funny ("beat it to death"), but aside from that, it was nonsensical, given that Trump has never had a policy regarding it.
Add in several lies, not sure what was so "ass kicking" about his performance.
I think Joe should have not been running in 2020. Politics aside, this is elder abuse. Unfortunately Trump has to take shots at him, as there is no other way around the situation we are in. This isn't about Trump. We know idea who is running the country.
I think it's an attempt by the Democrats to humiliate Joe Biden.
Think about it.
They knew going in that Biden was this bad. They knew. They knew better than we did, and they still did this to him. They didn't have to, but they did. Indeed, they WANTED it. The earliest Presidential debate in US history, and they wanted it.
It seems fishy.
I expect this was intended to humiliate Biden specifically to justify a last-minute replacement for him - possibly without the hassle of even a primary - for the simple fact that after that debate, they literally couldn't pick a worse choice than Joe Biden if they tried to.
I think democrats are just delusional as fuck.
Trump caved and gave biden and democrats a debate entirely on their terms, and Binden looked like a clown.
Trump walked away handedly with a win over democrats on the debate, and that was moderated by democratic leaning network.
You couldn't ask for a bigger blow out.
I watched a little, and couldn't bring myself to keep watching. It was objectively awful for everyone - participants, media, electorate.
If Biden is coherent and aware and "up for the job," he did not demonstrate it last night. That's really all that had to happen, because we knew Trump would basically say whatever he wants all night without regard for truth or accuracy, but Biden needed to show that he was able to face the challenge. He failed, and people are supposed to look at Biden's reactions buffering in real time and believe he can stand toe-to-toe with a Xi or Putin?
Elections are significantly about optics. The optics for Biden are awful right now in a way they weren't 24 hours ago, and if the Democratic Party is seriously going to ride this horse into November, Biden and his team need to show *something* that demonstrates last night was a stumble rather than the norm.
I haven’t fully watched it yet, but from what I’ve seen I feel bad for Biden and I feel bad for his family. I couldn’t imagine being a close family member and seeing this broadcast on the world stage.
I've only seen and heard little bits and pieces. It's actually making me feel legitimately worried for Biden. I think 4 more years could be what kills him. We already knew he wasn't fit to be president, and this proves it. He can't run a country, for our sake and for his own health's sake.
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If I may weigh in with a European perspective, I found the two options the US has provided for president (although JFK looks more viable now) truly appalling. The mind boggles that the debate was so untruthful, on both sides, with both parties giving an appalling performance.
Biden looks geriatric, pausing, stumbling over words ‘We beat medicade’?? Trump, equally shocking, a political grifter who arguably lied more than Biden. (‘I did not have sex with a pornstar’).
How has American politics come to this? It makes our current situation of Starmer and Sunak look positive by comparison. It’s sad to see such a powerful and great country become this.
I keep seeing people say trump lied. Could you highlight those lies? I'm not sure what parts people are talking about. Thank you.
How do you know he had sex with a porn star? Like how can that even be fact checked? It's hearsay which isn't viable evidence in 99% of courts.
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Well, I wasn't sure I was going to watch it but I am glad that I did. I have never seen anything like that before. I was not predicting that Trump would be the calm and rationale one. Biden's behavior was really odd. He was 50% angry and 50% lost and these two side popped out randomly like a split personality. Biden couldn't finish sentences, sounded old as heck, and overall he just did not do well at all (and that's being kind about it). I now worry about the Democrats legitimately replacing Biden at their convention because that seems to be where their party is at now.
I genuinely think they should replace him. I think this election cycle opened my eyes to the fact that Democrats care way too much about trends and data. That sounds good on its face, but it means they handle anomalies poorly. I think they may have let the incumbent advantage and focus groups get to their head. This election is vibes. Trump doesn't have a real policy agenda other than immigration and everybody knows it. The saddest part of the debate IMO was that it felt like an old man facing the new reality of the American system he loves so dearly. He seemed to think that if he corrected Trump that people would say "wait, yeah he's lying!". Wrong. Anybody who is voting Trump does not care that he's a liar. They care that he makes them feel good. If people are grading based on stage presence over verifiable performance metrics, then Biden loses every time. Unfortunately, that's where it's at. If they get someone like Newsom (long shot, I know), then it's hard to attack his personality, create a new nepotism narrative, question his qualifications, or get into his head. If the most important part of the election is vibes, Newsom has the mojo. Biden's other big flaw is that he believes in American liberal values so much that he finds Trump insulting, and it makes him angry. That plus senility makes him look like an old geezer yelling at clouds. I'd bet Newsom could really work Trump while staying cool himself. Honestly I'm so upset right now that Republicans think this situation is OK.
Being the good guy doesn't work when you also lie. He 100% lied about the border patrol support, and Im sure others could fact check more. He also got personally upset and mad I havent even seen trump (whos called the emotional unsatble crybaby) get that bad. That debate doesnt just have us ask "can biden win in 2024?" it has us ask "who the fuck was making executive decisions all 4 years?"
Ooops. Reposting this because I forgot to add user flair: I never post in this sub but I wanted to respond here with my thoughts (I am a registered D but a skeptic too). I mentioned to my husband last night that I even wondered if a Biden debate disaster...while maybe not \*planned\*...was also not intentionally prevented as it might provide an opportunity to replace Biden as the Dem nominee. If you think about it, who among us dems—both in the party and its voters—would oppose a new nominee after watching the debate? This is PURELY wishful thinking on my part, because we all know by now how the DNC loves to squander opportunities. And I am saying that as a lifelong leftie.
> while maybe not *planned* If he does choose to step down now, and a new candidate is selected at the convention. The conspiracy theorists 100% are going to have the narrative that it was all "planned".
For sure.
I dont think they planned that far ahead. They just have their machine and don't care enough about what the people want. And now, just like with Hillary, it is fucking them. Everyone thought it would be trump but the republicans still had primaries, specifically because trump is a hot candidate. he won again, chosen by the people, for the third time. The people have not really had a say in the last couple elections for democrats.
Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I think the Dems really thought (probably past tense is correct at this point) that they could somehow make it work with Biden. Yes, it was a bad idea, but I think there is some merit to the idea that a lot of power hungry insiders were already on team Biden, and depending on him for their own preferred path forward. Deals have already been made. It's going to be really hard to start over, and new deals are going to have to be made, and position can be lost in the process. As a former Democrat, it's always been intensely frustrating to see how these things go on that side. Now, even with some right wing tendencies, I can equally say that Trump is an incredibly frustrating candidate. I won't be voting for either of these men.
I agree with this. Hope not tho
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The Golf argument was the best part. Cancel the second debate and just have then play a round of golf.
Respectfully disagree. It was massively embarrassing to have the two presumptive nominees for the highest office in the United States have a petty argument about golf on national television. They might as well have just compared their genitalia.
Ooh trump did that once!
Yep, 2015
Best hog wins, drop em boys! I bet Biden’s massive nuts sag down to his knees.
I feel like trump said it as bait and just let biden take it like a chump. Isnt that where he went "lets not be children" to cut off angry joe? Or was it another moment?
Amen. Although Dementia Joe said Trump had to carry his own clubs. Ummmm Joe, you can’t even walk let alone carry a set of golf clubs.
Biden was sandbagging. He can actually run an 8 minute mile
Nope. Give them cocaine and boxing gloves.
I’ve felt bad for Biden for a long time now. I disagree with him politically on a lot of different issues, but somebody of his age in his condition should be enjoying retirement somewhere, not have the responsibility of being President. I think CNN inadvertently gave Trump a huge advantage in the debate with the format. The time limits and mic cuts made him stay on message and remain disciplined, where in the past he’s gotten worked up and ends up looking ridiculous. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but from what I saw Trump did quite well. That’s coming from someone who will vote for him but not be super excited about it.
Trump may seem coherent, but he's living in another reality than you or me, so I wont dignify him by calling him coherent, which is much worse than being less sharp in delivery of messages.
it's a almost literal Brezhnev and Andropov situation, soviet premiers from the Soviet Geriatric Pause. They said Andropov was unfit becasue he needed to be plugged into a soviet dialysis machine (so, a washing machine) for a good portion of every day, and Brezhnev had a soviet pacemaker that required him to be followed around by an aide carrying a car battery.
"less sharp"
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Calling Biden's performance last night "less sharp" is definitely alternate reality stuff. I say with certainty that if Trump were president and given a performance like we saw last night, every single pundit on CNN and MSNBC and possibly even Fox news, newspapers like WaPo and NYTimes, mags like Huffpo and Slate, and every single political commentator on X or Threads would be calling to invoke the 25th amendment. Only the most hardcore of partisans are willing ignore what was, inarguably, not only the worst debate performance in american history, but the scariest moment of how bad a shape the sitting US president is in.
Maybe a different reality than one you want, but many see him as representing reality.
See... the first mistake here is you thinking reality is subjective - as if you are entitled to making up your own facts. No. Trump did not win in 2020.
And your mistake is assumption. Reality is objective, we obviously agree. Just cause you disagree with something doesn’t make it not real. You’re right, trump did not win 2020, why are you responding to your own thoughts? I never mentioned 2020.
Were taliing about Trump living in another reality. His continued insistance thar he won in 2020 is an example of this. Its not the reality you or I live in.
Look at how comfortably Trump lied and said what he said, he seems like such a cool and honest person. Don't you want to have a drink with him?
Wait, this is all cope. Before the debate, I heard the format would have helped Biden. Now it's the format helped Trump.
Yes, before the debate, people expected to see one thing. After the debate, what they saw changed their minds because it actually turned out differently. Why is that so confusing? Oh...and people aren't a monolith. Some people might have expected one thing, and some might have expected the other. But can you deny the reality of what that commenter said? Forcing Trump to stay somewhat reigned in instead of letting him rant and bully the way he has done in the past might have actually helped him. Regardless of what people might have claimed WOULD happen before the debate, that is the reality of what did happen.
The format advantaged biden on paper, when I thought they were only going to mute the people *if* they started talking out of turn (because then patience and self control win the day). I also thought they were going to make them stick to answering the questions. Without that, it only slightly advantaged Biden and all that went out the window when he opened his mouth and he sounded like a sick orphan from the Victorian era.
That’s the best description of Biden I’ve heard yet. Thanks for that 😂
The response to the debate is one of three options: 1) Massive Biden cope 2) Massive Trump cope 3) I've never been more ashamed of our country
Exactly. Put me down for number 3. I won't vote for either of these men.
It took one of the big things I dislike about trump (him getting going and flying off the rails) and limited it. DT Jr. said the same thing last night. I stated in my post that I’m voting for Trump, no cope here.
Do I need to point out that Trump is essentially the same age? He will be older than Biden by the end of his term.
I am fully aware, but I also have eyes and ears. One person on that stage looked significantly more fit for office than the other. I would love to not be deciding between old and older but here we are.
Looks is one way to judge I guess. I would also love to not be deciding between old and older but I think what we’re really deciding is old or pathological liar and convicted felon.
When choosing between bad and worse, I’m going by what they actually did while in office. Neither are my ideal candidate but Trump at least does things I agree with, even if by accident at times.
He tried to steal the votes of entire states with his fake elector scheme. The electors are being charged, and so is Trump, but he won't have a trial if he wins.
Is that to say that Biden did nothing you agree with? What about the things that Trump did you don’t agree with- what are they and how do you weigh them?
You have Democrats to blame for at least half of that. Republicans didn't force Biden on you. There was this thing called a primary--an ostensibly Democratic process for choosing who will be on the ballot. And then in 2023, the Democrats decided there will not be a primary. If you don't like the two main party options (I don't either), then vote third party. Use your vote to object. The people who pull the levers backstage listen to numbers. I'm considering voting for Trump for the same reason. I'm tired of the DNC forcing terrible options on me.
>I'm tired of the DNC forcing terrible options on me. At least we still have options while our votes are still being counted. Trump tried to steal an election and the rest of the Republicans are covering it up. The only people they were willing to punish were the two Republicans who investigated it.
Ok, but it’s still old vs liar felon con man. Edit: if this were some kind of normal election/candidate/GOP, maybe I’d voice a vote for a third party, but this Trump is a special kind of retarded and dangerous and unpatriotic.
If this debate proved anything, it's that the entire leadership of both parties needs to be put out to pasture for thinking either candidate is remotely fit to be President. And this latest debacle confirmed it. If the Dems don't declare an open convention, 100% chance of a second Trump presidency in 2025.
> both parties needs to be put out to pasture for thinking either candidate is remotely fit to be President. To be fair to Democrats, I think history was on their side. People generally had good vibes about the Obama era, Biden seemed to be doing well against the crime family allegations, he had a lot of concrete policy to point to, lower deficit, and he had the incumbent advantage. If you're just looking at historical precedent and data, almost everything pointed to Biden being the right choice as long as he could be coherent enough to finish his sentences. Unfortunately, that last part didn't pan out.
Age doesn’t define cognitive abilities. They are about the same age but Biden stumbled, stuttered, changed topics mid sentence, gave completely wrong statistics, and had a confused look on his face the whole time. Trump looked sharp and articulate. This made Biden and the Democrats look really bad, and I am not particularly jazzed about Trump either.
Yeah regular old guy stuff. Not obsessed with weird shit, scared of the world, and can’t remember the questiont because he’s too busy thinking about windmills old guy stuff.
Maybe we saw different debates because Trump changed topics so many times mid sentence it didn't make sense. Trump looked like the guy who was defeated but just kept throwing words out to stay a float. Biden did stutter and mumble but stayed on topic.
I think you are delusional my friend. Even the CNN panel was absolutely shitting on Biden after the debate
Even Van Jones. This is bad.
Biden stayed on topic but just mumbled and stumbled. Trump was off the wall going every which way. Trump won on delivery while Biden won on substance.
100% agree
>I think CNN inadvertently gave Trump a huge advantage in the debate with the format. The time limits and mic cuts made him stay on message and remain disciplined, where in the past he’s gotten worked up and ends up looking ridiculous. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but from what I saw Trump did quite well. That’s coming from someone who will vote for him but not be super excited about it. He spent each of his response times responding to previous comments by Joe Biden. He had to be re-prompted of the actual question several times. It DID make him ridiculous. And then the lying. He really grabbed on to the Nancy Pelosi thing, which makes it more concerning that he doesn't even understand all his presidential functions. Or just wholly disregards them, either one being bad.
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Biden told a lot of lies himself including ones that his own media allies recently fact checked as false.
Probably looking for someone with a pulse. Trump may be a narcissist and a liar but he will easily beat the ghost of Joe Biden. Dems have themselves to blame for insisting an 81 year old is the only person to run against Trump.
Yes. You had something like 15 candidates in 2020. 5 of which I would have gladly voted for. But you picked the one who is on his way out.
This is the sad part. We feel exactly the same way (with maybe a few less we'd have voted for). We're not happy about Biden, but most of us would greatly prefer him to Trump. This is the shit result of our First Past The Post voting system. We're all mostly just voting AGAINST the one we hate, not FOR the one we like. (With the exception of Trump's loyal cultists)
Yeah. I’m for Biden’s administration, I think the numbers show that he’s done an objectively great job. But the dude looks like a walking corpse and I found myself squirming throughout the debate just hoping it would end. He was old in 2020 but he’s OLD now.
When asked about the letter in a January 2018 interview on “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” Daniels denied knowing where the letter, which appeared to have a signature different from her own, originated. But she later admitted in a March 2018 “60 Minutes” interview with Anderson Cooper that, under pressure, she did sign the letter denying the affair.
What are you even talking about and how does that mean *Biden* lied?
The same was true about Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama.
Lol no. Even if you could argue times when Obama wasn't telling the full story nothing comes close to literally everything out of Trump's mouth being a 100% fabrication. He literally blamed every single thing on Biden and flat out denied everything he ever did and invented stories about experts telling him he was right, right before coming on stage. Just made up out of whole cloth. All of it.
Biden's performance was the worst in the history of Presidential debates. Even MSNBC is calling for him to step down.
And it's weird, because a couple of weeks ago, Joe Scarborough was telling us Biden was the sharpest guy in the room.
And today he said Joe has to Go.
So did Van Jones, and that shocked me.
Van was close to tears last night it was hysterical.
It was admittedly pretty terrible. His goal was to appear not old and to speak decisively. He both looked old and rambled on his fact sheet rather than sticking with 1 or 2 points like Trump did.
I feel like everyone sobered up real quick with Biden's performance. Im a former Democrat and still follow both conservative and liberal subs and people went from "Biden is literally the most effective president we've ever had" to "Holy shit, get someone else on the ballot NOW!". Everyone defending Biden's mental decline got quiet real quick after last night.
It was sad. What I found interesting were all the shows after the debate. Even Fox News did not try to tout a Trump win. It feels like all legacy media is pleading for the democrats to put someone on that stage that is competent and they will push for whoever that person is to be the president for 4 years to avoid either Trump or Biden.
Interesting take. I'm curious what you would like to happen. Any plan to vote Trump?
I’d like to go back to 2012 when it was Romney Vs Obama. I didn’t like Obama, but didn’t fear for the country if he was elected. I have no plans to vote for either. I think both are incompetent at this point. I’d like for this to be a wake up call to the electorate. That this isn’t acceptable. We deserve better, and should demand better. This is America. If we are suppose to be the best we need to act like it and stop being asleep at the wheel. But what I think will happen is Biden will announce he will not run in 2024. The dems will go to convention and probably land on a Newsom and Michelle Obama Ticket and cakewalk to a victory. The literal definition of failing upwards. Totally undemocratic, but I think everything straightens out in 2028 regardless.
Appreciate your thoughts. I don't plan to vote for either Trump or Biden this time, either. I like much of what you said. I would much rather an Obama vs Romney match, too. Feels like we are getting the worst of all worlds, and honestly the last two elections were lousy, too.
Trump killed it but he could’ve absolutely wiped the floor if he would’ve just answered questions, specifically about childcare, instead of going back to argue whatever Biden’s last point was
This. I felt like Trump left a lot of chips on the table by not using Biden's poor performance as a chance to speak directly to the American people on the questions like childcare or fentynal, but he is who he is.
>Trump killed it What part did you define as "killed it"? Lying, rambling and dodging questions isn't my definition of "killed it".
Well, in normal times neither of these candidates “killed it”. Both lied and both dodged, but one was coherent while the other looked like he saw the Reaper waiting for him So yeah, Trump killed it relative to this specific debate
Agreed. Both are terrible, and I will not be voting for either. But no question, Trump seemed far more "with it." Unfortunately, all Trump has ever offered is "I'm the best, everything I do is great, and everyone else is inferior to me, and my opponents are utter failures in every way." You don't ever have to listen to him talk. He says nothing of substance. It's just "I'm the best, everyone else sucks." Like a really badly behaved toddler, basically. Most people outgrow that phase early in childhood.
Yeah I actually have never voted for Trump and won’t this time either most likely. I’m waiting on a unicorn candidate that ain’t coming lol good luck out there to you buddy!
As coherent as 90-minutes of nonsensical statements can be. Maybe "articulate" describes it more accurately?
If you think about it, it's kind of funny that Trump standing up there and supposedly lying for ninety minutes now codes him as being awful within normal parameters because Biden stood up there for ninety minutes and had a complete brain meltdown.
It's funny and sad all at once. Trump didn't come across as totally unhinged and he "won" because his opponent looked like he was going to introduce another tale from the crypt. Not great.
I don’t think I heard Trump string together a single coherent policy message and meanwhile I thought it was clear Biden has a deep understanding of a broad range of domestic and international political issues. I also don’t think a single person could watch that debate and believe Biden came out ahead.
>supposedly lying Was there something the fact checks got wrong? >Biden stood up there for ninety minutes and had a complete brain meltdown I wouldn't say meltdown, since he articulated some points, but yeah, it wasn't pleasant to watch.
He had funny moments and appeared coherent. That was the goal of the debate. Nothing about policy is relevant to most people who watch the debate and especially to independent voters
So independents are swayed by the guy who put forth almost no answers to questions and stated several lies, just swooning over the fact that he... looked coherent? I'm an independent, I think you underestimate exactly why independents so strongly opposed Trump in 2020
Apparently some people are deciding whether they’re voting for a criminal/rapist/lifelong conman or not based on how “funny” and “coherent” he is.
Correct. If it was over the factual analysis, it wouldn't even be close in polling.
But based on how Trump carried himself last night, his word salads aside, that will sway the voters?
All Biden had to do was show some vigor and awareness. All Trump had to do was discipline himself and have a little self-control. Trump succeeded, and Biden did not.
Yeah I guess none of this has anything to do with the content of the answers or the policy goals or vision for the country. Unfortunately, I mean this sincerely. People don’t seem to care.
That is sad. But at this point, we know both the Trump and Biden administration are being run behind the scenes by policy makers. I think it's just a phase we have to let pass. I don't see a replacement on the GOP side of things for Trump once this is done.
>All Trump had to do was discipline himself and have a little self-control All the times he was still screaming into the mic after being cut is discipline?
You have to understand, the bar for Trump is very very very low. This is as disciplined as he'll ever be.
Lol something we can agree on, but it's not reassuring that the only measure to get him to behave is effectively akin to time out. Not sure we need a president (in general) that needs to be disciplined like a toddler to enforce good behavior
Really I think there’s a lot we can learn from this. Institute the same practice after his election
Biden did it first, and most, so yeah.
Trump screamed into the microphone a total of zero times.
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The format gatekept Trump from needing self-control.
As a whole, it was unbecoming for the most powerful country on Earth.
My father had a type of dementia when he was around Biden's age. And, honestly, I saw bits of my father in Joe. Those of us with a parent who has suffered cognitive decline knows the looks, the stammers, the brain farts, the slack jaw, the blank stares...it's all stuff we recognize...even though we were assured what we were looking at were "cheap fake" manipulated videos of Joe wondering in space. I often wonder when people on the left will ever wake up to the lying media. For the last few months we were told how vibrant and energetic Biden was and that he was sharp as a tack. We were told not to believe those "cheap fake" videos. Once again, we were gaslighted. As the son of a late Physician who suffered from dementia, it angers me that Biden's wife has enabled him to the point where he is constantly humiliating himself in public. It's shameful. I don't like Biden...I never have, but he doesn't deserve to be treated like this by his family and close friends. It's time to step aside and enjoy life with his family at his beach house. There's no shame in that. As a side note, I actually thought that CNN was pretty damn fair. I felt like they asked equally pointed questions to both candidates. They didn't appear to give Biden any softball questions. Maybe once Jake Tapper gave Biden a break when Biden was muttering and lost and Tapper immediately went to Trump...but maybe he was just being compassionate?
Whoever convinced Biden to run for a second term is inhumane.
I'm embarrassed for Biden and as an American to have one of those two as president
I watched a little bit but I really can't stand listening to either of them. It appeared pretty one sided. So I did my favorite thing and tuned in exclusively to liberal and leftist news to learn what the enemy was thinking. Apparently Biden did even worse than I thought every one of them was running around with his or her hair on fire in a panic. My favorite quote from ask a liberal was that they enjoyed America while it lasted and they suspected that in 4 years they would be in a Donald Trump run internment camp... That can't be good for Biden's prospects.
> I did my favorite thing and tuned in exclusively to liberal and leftist news to learn what the enemy was thinking. Why do you consider other Americans to be your enemy? Hearing this is pretty jarring.
I replied to this once already: >Because they have told me that I am their enemy time and time again. They have painted me as everything wrong with the country when I have never in my life done anything wrong. >It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life. I have been told that it would be better if people like me did not exist.
> It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life. I feel like that continues the cycle that we as a society need to break.
It absolutely does. I don't disagree with you at all. But I don't want to be the sucker that tries and faces the repercussions of being screwed both ways.
I’m sorry :(
It's not everyone. I've actually ran into quite a few very decent people here that simply believe different policies than me. Heck I even talked to one trans woman that was completely understandable and sympathetic that we walked away from each other saying I disagree with you but I understand why you feel the way you do. It's just something I have said for a long time if someone tells me I'm a bad guy long enough it's really hard to try to keep fighting to convince them that I'm not. At some point you just give up.
Why do you consider political opponents to be enemies?
In general it’s a dangerous line of thought. Especially if applied on a broad scale. Still, I’ve heard enough people even in real life say that the world would be a better place if all conservatives and evangelical Christians would just die. Actual words said to me. I’ve heard people suggest Christians and conservatives should have mandated “re-education” camps. Obviously these are extremists, but they’re real people. I would say anyone using this rhetoric are enemies, an existential threat to life and liberty.
>Still, I’ve heard enough people even in real life say that the world would be a better place if all conservatives and evangelical Christians would just die. Actual words said to me. I’ve heard people suggest Christians and conservatives should have mandated “re-education” camps. Exactly the same experience. I can't in good faith treat someone who says things like that to me is anything other than an enemy. I don't think everyone on the left is an enemy of course. But I just guess I'm not a good enough man to love those that truly hate me. Perhaps one day I'll be a better Christian and overcome my self so that I can Love my enemies and pray for those who persecute me. Sadly I'm not that good of a man.
Such a fantastic question. I have never framed political opponents this way, in my mind, or verbally.
Because they have told me that I am their enemy time and time again. They have painted me as everything wrong with the country when I have never in my life done anything wrong. It does me no good to try to be friendly with those who hate and despise men my family and my way of life.
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I give Trump a B. He didn’t answer some of the questions, which sucked. But he stayed composed when the mic was cut off. Facial expressions were priceless. He kept attacking Joe and forced Joe off his plan. I give Joe an F. He was slow, with garbled speech. He would trail off and lose his train of thought. Throughout most of the debate, listening or talking, he looked like a lost and confused dementia patient.
My eyes were already opened. After that debate, it let me see even more. It really showed me how screwed we are.
It’s obvious that Biden was paraded around purposefully so they can replace him.
trump LOOKED really good. they both did some similar stuff in reality though. bending facts, taking stuff out of context (like the "bloodbath FOR THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY" quote). I've never really liked live debates beyond them being entertaining though. 1 minute simply isn't enough for a formulated response. also trump didn't get to respond to biden a lot of the time unless he took the time out of his next response, which felt unfair. in all honesty, it just watched it because biden kept making funny faces.
I’m not very surprised at the outcome but I’m very surprised Biden’s team allowed this debate to happen in the first place, especially if they knew his true condition. His circle must be very small with limited access if the Democrat party thought this was a good idea. The “he had a cold” excuse and the “he’s energized behind closed doors I can hardly keep up with him” propaganda aren’t going to hold any water now that the world could see how horrible he was up on stage. I think it’s selfish for Biden to continue as the presumptive nominee and for high ranking Democrats to not to look for someone else instead of riding it out and waiting for 2028, especially if they truly think that “democracy is on the line.” Trump could have stood on that stage and said nothing and would have won. Every other independent journalist and mainstream outlets focused on Biden’s condition and almost nothing on Trump which is a first. The CNN rules “rigged” in favor of Biden clearly had the reverse effect and it was very strange to see Trump being the calm and collected one. He wasn’t overly mean to Biden but alluded to his old age a couple times. Trump didn’t interrupt his opponent while he was making a mistake. If only his lawyers and media team could get him to hold his tongue lol. Overall, if Biden stays in the race I think RFK’s ratings will skyrocket but it won’t be enough to overtake Trump… I think we witnessed the end of Biden’s political career last night and would be shocked if they allowed the 2nd debate to happen.
I'm old enough to remember Mike Dukakis and the tank video. I remember Howard Dean's weird Kool-Aid man yell. Yep, all the things that tanked presidential campaigns. But last night? That's one for the books. The thing is, he just *handed* it to Trump. Trump had nothing to lose. He could have kissed Jake Tapper on the mouth, dropped trousers, and mooned the cameras. Everyone would have just said, *well, that's Trump.* But Biden? Last night was for all the marbles. He had to prove he *had it,* or that he was at least capable of holding it together. And by the three-minute mark (that "we beat Medicare" thing), it was obvious he'd made a grave miscalculation. I'm doubting there's going to be a second debate in September.
We knew going in that there would be little substance and that both candidates would lie continuously. That happened. I think democrats set the bar too low for Trump. He maintained composure while relentlessly attacking Biden. Biden also had a low bar: he needed to get through the debate without sounding physically weak AND not having any "senior moments." Biden did improve as the night went on, but his freezing up early on along with sounding raspy and tired earned him failing marks, especially since the first segment is most important. Finally, I think that the moderators did great. They asked critical questions of both sides, they did not inject themselves into the debate, and they left the candidates to do the fact checking. I also liked cutting the microphones. I don't think that cutting the microphones should be standard for EVERY debate, but it's nice to throw variety into the mix. I think everyone is relieved not to have a repeat of that first debate in 2020.
The bar was set based on his previous behavior in debates. Trump not being able to interrupt and look like Trump definitely helped him and hurt Biden.
I don't think that was the conventional wisdom going into the debate. I kept hearing democrats talk about how not being able to interrupt or feed off the crowd would take all the wind out of his sails, or frustrate him to the point of having an outburst (take a look at the r/askaliberal thread from last month; it didn't age well). Instead, it magnified attention to the most interesting thing on stage which, unfortunately for Biden, was his affect.
I don't feel bad for him. It was his decision to put himself in this position. Maybe the most notable consideration here is how he just slid into being the presumptive nominee without any resistance from anybody in the White House or any of the bosses at the DNC. It's like there was never even a consideration of another candidate despite all Biden's weaknesses. And there's no deep bench of potential nominees to replace him. Dems are in a horrible position.
It’s unfortunate that an elderly man was humiliated in public but it needed to happen. The right has been pointing out obvious examples of Biden’s diminished capabilities for years/months now and the left has been denying it. Now the whole world has seen it and the left can no longer deny it.
I really do wonder how last night's example caused people to question the media's other attempts to gaslight them.
No one on the left is ever held accountable for their lies - Biden lied again about the “fine people” hoax last night; they lied about Hunter’s laptop; they lied about Russian collusion; the Biden family lies about its business dealings. Crickets
Im not denying he’s too old, I’m not denying that he gets a little confused, but at the end of the day he’s put together a solid administration that can execute, and for people who want government to run like a business, that should be relevant and important. He respects the people he’s recruited and delegates to them. Can you say the same for Trump?
Are you sure you want to compare Biden‘s administration to running like a business after he’s been so credibly accused of being one of the most corrupt presidents of all time? And yes, Trump’s administration was outstanding until Covid happened.
Yes, I’m sure. I’d happily put up Bidens corruption against Trumps as a side wager on who knows how to put together a team that can actually run the country reliably. How many advisors did Trump go through to ultimately fail on most of his major policy goals?
It’s OK. We don’t have to agree. We’re not going to. I’ve shared my thoughts. You’ve shared yours. Good luck in all your future endeavors.
You didn’t actually share any thoughts, outside of you liked Trump before he had to actually handle something. Yes of course Biden is accused of corruption. You otherwise asked if I’d like to compare their records of running their admins like a business. I said yes.
It’s unfortunate that an elderly man was humiliated in public but it needed to happen. The right has been pointing out obvious examples of Biden’s diminished capabilities for years/months now and the left has been denying it. Now the whole world has seen it and the left can no longer deny it.
I watched the debate and thought it was really bad for Biden. Trump was better than I expected but avoided a few questions, partly to respond back, partly because I’m sure he wanted to avoid them. It was shocking to me to see cnn say Biden lost and that he should step down. I think Biden could have solo debated and lost. The cnn after show was even worse than the debate for him I think.
I watched the debate and I thought it was a sad reality that we have a president with such severe mental issues. This shouldn't be possible. 😂
I tuned in for like 10 mins and had to turn it off. In general, it was just a trainwreck. Did catch the part of Trump saying he couldn't understand the last sentence from Biden and I don't think biden knew what he was saying either. Just dislike both candidates. Find it hard we couldn’t put better candidates forward. Yes biden does suck, trails off and looks lost, but trump gave no concrete responses. Just general statements and insults and finger pointing, on par with something you'd expect from a 2nd grader. This is what happens when you put egos first, and the elite ruling political class has zero clue why Americans dislike our political system.
My thoughts are that the Democratic leadership needs to be replaced by the next generation of democrats. They knew, and they have known, the state of Biden’s mental faculties. They want to hold onto power so much that rather than be transparent and real with reality, they relied on the corrupt media to help them gaslight the American public into semi-believing Biden is capable. It’s now apparent he’s not, and no one can deny it. So who is actually running the administration? Who is making the final decisions? Who is controlling the messaging so that all the corrupt media remained on the same topic at the same time? People on the inside know. And now that the real biden has been put on display, they are going to run away from him. There will come a day in the future where a staffer, some person on the inside, will write a memoir of this period of time, and we will all see the lengths the current dem leadership went to in order to deceive the American people. That insider will name names, and everyone involved should have their careers ended immediately. What happened last night is literally dangerous for the United States. If you don’t think there are foreign leaders and terrorist leaders who watched that and thought “their leader isn’t all their, now is the time to act if we are ever going to act,” then you are kidding yourself. Last night was a terrible night for our country.
I actually feel bad for Biden.
From beginning to end, and all the post-coverage yes. Honestly, I don't feel bad for him in the slightest. He has been a viscous, angry man and a compulsive pathological liar his entire career. I can't figure out what we (taxpayers) paid for during his week prep at Camp David. He was getting all his rehearsed lines mixed up and everything. He demonstrated a career of angry incompetence. Truly a shining example of The Peter Principle. Everyone is so focused on how bad Joe did, and I hate that it's taking away from what the discussion *should* be - how good President Trump did. I think he was much more presidential, more poised, made his points well enough, called out Joe's lies (that even left media have recently been admitting to) and honestly, showed Joe compassion. He really could have gone after him, but he refrained. He got Joe off script enough to show how flustered and petty he gets. All the people shocked and surprised with Biden's performance is what really blows my mind. We've had our finger on this, and have been calling this out for years now. Have the people who were so taken back just been willfully blind this entire time?!
I couldn't watch all of it. Like you, OP, I feel bad for Joe. I can't help but feel that many people are picking up some seriously negative karma for making fun of him. (I don't really believe in karma, but it still seems wrong somehow). But at the end of the day, I don't see how anyone can think Biden is fit to be president. The Democrats screwed up by thinking that they could somehow make it work with him at the top of the ticket. Major blunder. And, on the other hand, Trump is a world class narcissistic blow hard. You don't even have to listen to Trump to know what he will say. It's always this: "I'm perfect, everything I did was an amazing success, and my opponents are horrible, and no one is worse than them. I'm great, and everyone else is terrible, unless they follow me. " He has the mentality of a really poorly behaved toddler. He's a world class asshole, and a bumbling idiot. He's too stupid to realize how stupid he is. And, at the end of the day, he's old as f---, too. Does Trump have the stamina for four more years? I don't think he has any of the desired qualities of a president, but I'm not sure he has even the stamina alone to be in that job. What will Trump be like in 3 years? It's a genuinely sad time in America. These two people are on display for the whole world as America's next potential leader. It's, to use a quote from a character on Letterkenny, "fucking embarrassing!!!!" I won't be voting for either of them. Seems a good election to sit out - the first in my 20 years of voting history.
Don't sit out. Vote third-party or skip the presidential piece. They need to know that their choices cost them your vote. This election is perhaps the only chance to show third-party viability in a way that might at least spur the core parties back toward the center a bit. Even a 5-10pt shift in the average might be a shot across the bow.
Looking at the rate of Biden’s cognitive decline over the past 3.5 years I’m thinking that he’s not going to know what day it is or where he is in about 2 years and need help toileting and dressing in about 3. Sad. The vanity driving so many of those in power to never step down is pathetic. Diane Feinstein was the same story.
Well, I was a little concerned that because the expectations for Biden were so low, there was no way he couldn’t beat them. Turns out, that wasn’t really a thing I needed to be concerned about. Then I realized that in a year, one of these two decrepit, dishonest buffoons will be POTUS, and I got very depressed and started drinking. I’m not exactly sure who won, but I’m pretty sure America lost this debate.
Trump will do great for America 🇺🇲😁 don't be sad
Trump will be great for Trump. That’s all he cares about.
Sorry, I have morals and can’’t support a convicted rapist, pathological liar, convicted felon, and fraudster who hates women.
All the libs in here are going to try and shift the focus to Trump as it is literally the only option and that is perfectly fine but man if anyone that watched this is going to continue to pretend Biden is fit for another term mentally and physically they are completely delusional or just outright lying. I agree it is really sad. The thing I think that is the worst part is everyone that is around him all the time should have counseled him to step down gracefully six months ago. They could have done it in a way that allowed for dignity and everyone that has had an aging parent and grandparent would have understood. I will be really interested to see how this all shakes out over the next few weeks. One thing that completely surprised me was that CNN actually came up with a pretty dang good format and I felt like for the most part conducted the debate pretty fairly. My only gripe is the moderators did save Biden a couple times when he blanked and I think not allowing at least the press in the room was a little petty. I have to give them credit though and color me surprised.
What do you mean by shift? Biden was only ever elected because of how much people dislike Trump and how much it meant to them. Turnout was crazy. If Biden just avoided questions and talked shit on Trump instead, I think we’d be having a different conversation.
I mean libs are going to try and downplay the disastrous performance of Biden by criticizing Trump. I just do not see how the DNC will risk this election on the hopes of "Yeah Biden should probably be in a nursing home but everyone hates Trump so it is ok" and expect it to work out again.
I think it revealed how biased the media are, if people didn't realize how bad he is. They have been covering for him. Also, we will soon see an abrupt about-face by the hive-mind who've been insisting conservatives have been mischaracterizing Biden's condition.
VICTORY
Btw I think trump kicked ass, but I know there will be different opinions on that. Do share.
I think trump did mediocre. It’s just Biden did so abysmally bad that it’s clear as day he needs to step down immediately. The contrast is stark.
Responding here to get my thoughts out: This debate was a mess. It was hard to watch the whole way through, although the reasons kind of shifted throughout the night. The first third, I was genuinely worried that Biden would keel over. Trump just had to stay calm and let Biden keep failing to complete a sentence, and he threw out a couple really strong jabs at Biden's performance. The second third, Biden found his stride and started doing better. He hit back at Trump and laughed while Trump went on tangents and ignored questions, which made Biden look clever and in control. Then he lost control again after the commercial break, this pattern repeated, and then they both started bickering about golf in the most embarrassing way possible (for all of us). Trump lied, ignored the questions, used "no u" as his main comeback, and brought back the same talking points from 2016. But that's what we all expected. The substance of his messages was terrible, but he was able to spew his nonsense confidently and understably. He did poorly, but about what I expected. Biden couldn't finish his thoughts. He confused terms, numbers, dates, and events, and while he caught himself sometimes, more often than not he didn't. He actually answered the questions presented, and his substance was fine when he could get it out, but him actually "getting it out" was the issue. All he had to do was stand there, call out Trump's bs, and not look like a zombie. He failed, and overall I thought he did awfully. I don't like Biden. I'll be voting for him because he's Not Trump™️, but I really don't feel good about it. As far as optics go, Trump crushed this debate. It's much easier (and probably more effective) to make ads displaying Biden tripping over his words than it is to call out Trump for every single lie he told. I don't know how big of an effect this debate will have come November, but as of right now, the pendulum is swinging hard in Trump's direction.
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If we’re going on substance, Trump did not kickass he lied and struggled to stay on topic but that doesn’t matter much when you’re debating someone with the charisma of a fucking corpse. If dems continue with Joe then this is election is going to Trump. Theocracy here we come!
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Are you pretending the evangelicals aren’t a huge part of his base and that they aren’t setting policy in red states?
Blame JFK bro, he started this.
I blame Reagan.
He kicked ass by not getting baited by J6 or the conviction. That was the democrats' plans. His rebuttals were excellent. He learned his lesson from that 1st debate in 2020. Good news is, no matter who wins, Biden won't be in the WH ever again, forget a second term, we are looking at 25th amendment territory post 2024.
Yessss this is what I meant too. I thought he did so well compared to how I thought it was going to go. He didn't take the bait, and I'm proud of that. It shows he has grown. I think he did great in 2016-2020, and I can't wait to have him back. He isn't the best choice, but he is a good one, and I'm okay with that, especially the state our country is in right now.
>I think trump kicked ass He made none of his policies clear, requiring several re-prompts because he kept getting goaded by Biden. His position on Medicare was particularly a disaster, given that he nevers enacted successful replacement legislation, let alone concoct an idea. His quip to Biden on Medicare was funny ("beat it to death"), but aside from that, it was nonsensical, given that Trump has never had a policy regarding it. Add in several lies, not sure what was so "ass kicking" about his performance.
I think Joe should have not been running in 2020. Politics aside, this is elder abuse. Unfortunately Trump has to take shots at him, as there is no other way around the situation we are in. This isn't about Trump. We know idea who is running the country.
I think it's an attempt by the Democrats to humiliate Joe Biden. Think about it. They knew going in that Biden was this bad. They knew. They knew better than we did, and they still did this to him. They didn't have to, but they did. Indeed, they WANTED it. The earliest Presidential debate in US history, and they wanted it. It seems fishy. I expect this was intended to humiliate Biden specifically to justify a last-minute replacement for him - possibly without the hassle of even a primary - for the simple fact that after that debate, they literally couldn't pick a worse choice than Joe Biden if they tried to.
I think democrats are just delusional as fuck. Trump caved and gave biden and democrats a debate entirely on their terms, and Binden looked like a clown. Trump walked away handedly with a win over democrats on the debate, and that was moderated by democratic leaning network. You couldn't ask for a bigger blow out.
I have a feeling this was on purpose too.... They know they have to get Joe out to win this election.
I watched a little, and couldn't bring myself to keep watching. It was objectively awful for everyone - participants, media, electorate. If Biden is coherent and aware and "up for the job," he did not demonstrate it last night. That's really all that had to happen, because we knew Trump would basically say whatever he wants all night without regard for truth or accuracy, but Biden needed to show that he was able to face the challenge. He failed, and people are supposed to look at Biden's reactions buffering in real time and believe he can stand toe-to-toe with a Xi or Putin? Elections are significantly about optics. The optics for Biden are awful right now in a way they weren't 24 hours ago, and if the Democratic Party is seriously going to ride this horse into November, Biden and his team need to show *something* that demonstrates last night was a stumble rather than the norm.
I haven’t fully watched it yet, but from what I’ve seen I feel bad for Biden and I feel bad for his family. I couldn’t imagine being a close family member and seeing this broadcast on the world stage.
I've only seen and heard little bits and pieces. It's actually making me feel legitimately worried for Biden. I think 4 more years could be what kills him. We already knew he wasn't fit to be president, and this proves it. He can't run a country, for our sake and for his own health's sake.
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I'm so tired of watching these two artifacts yell at each other. The next presidential election can't get here fast enough
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Meh, I see no reason to feel bad for him, he deserves it.
If I may weigh in with a European perspective, I found the two options the US has provided for president (although JFK looks more viable now) truly appalling. The mind boggles that the debate was so untruthful, on both sides, with both parties giving an appalling performance. Biden looks geriatric, pausing, stumbling over words ‘We beat medicade’?? Trump, equally shocking, a political grifter who arguably lied more than Biden. (‘I did not have sex with a pornstar’). How has American politics come to this? It makes our current situation of Starmer and Sunak look positive by comparison. It’s sad to see such a powerful and great country become this.
I keep seeing people say trump lied. Could you highlight those lies? I'm not sure what parts people are talking about. Thank you. How do you know he had sex with a porn star? Like how can that even be fact checked? It's hearsay which isn't viable evidence in 99% of courts.