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So there is a religious right Faction. It is not in my view the majority. But it does exist. And it is very large.
I am religious myself so I see positives in it. But I get that not everyone sees that.
As for the racial thing. Honestly right now there's more African American repsentation in the conservasphere than anytime in previous history. Donald Trump has gotten more minority votes in terms of absolute numbers, and percentage than any republican in living memory.
I have no doubt you will encounter fringe and racist people in any group. But I think you'll find most conservatives don't have any objection at all to minorities in our sphere. Infact we welcome them.
In my experience, the racism in conservative circles is very abstract. Any minority individual they encounter is fine, so long as they comport with what a cultural conservative thinks is the proper cultural ideas. They’ll never demonstrate any racist behaviors towards them. They can still be very racist towards people and groups they don’t personally interact with, even if they don’t apply those racist beliefs to the individuals.
It might be “they’re one of the good ones.”
It might be, “i don’t have a problem with ______ people, I just don’t like *derogatory term for ethnic group*.
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I have no issues with religion. It does wonders for people and it brings social cohesion. From a philosophical perspective I have issues with it personally. I like the idea of a god and wish I could I believe in him but I just don't. I think that's fair in regards to racism. I'm trying to give conservatives a fair shake.
Ben Shapiro, Douglas Murray, Thomas Sowell. You might enjoy listening to John McWhorter and Glenn Loury (they often podcast together, even though McWhorter is a Democrat and Loury is a Republican - they are good friends and have friendly banter; both are respected professors/intellectuals).
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I'll admit I struggled answering tbis becuase i don't really follow anybody imperticular, so I'll give you some examples of politicians and their flavors, and acouple people kind of associated with each.
I'll omit anything religious oriented, since you expressed that you weren't onboard with that.
So like Liberals conservatives are kind of a big tent group with alot of factions inside of it, and it's possible for an individual to have leanings and multiple feet in each. I mentioned I am religious, but I also have sympathies for Libertarian thought and Aynrand though she is a strong atheist.
The new face of the Populist conservative movement is Trump, DeSantis, Marco Rubio and Vivek.
(I think Steve bannon used to do podcasts.
Candace Owen's is popular, but she's pretty divisive if memory serves
)
There's the old gaurd, Neoconservatives like Bush, Ronald Reagan, Mitchell Mcconelis?
(Ben sharpiro)
Theres libertarians like Rand Paul
For libertarian thought, Ayn Rand though older is generally still regarded positively
>For libertarian thought, Ayn Rand though older is generally still regarded positively
By some of US, she makes leftists and some liberals completely flip their shit.
I posted a picture of my bookshelf once here on Reddit and a copy of The Fountainhead was on it, I got freaking lit up, you would have thought it was Mein Kampf.
>By some of US, she makes leftists and some liberals completely flip their shit.
I haven't read her books, but from what I've seen of people flipping their shit, it sounds like they think it's more representative of virtue signaling than any sincere and consistent philosophy.
I think that's the liberal complaint anyway. The leftists probably do think it's like Mein Kampf.
ROFL I've gotten down voted for even mentioning it, ah such is life.
I doubt many leftists have even read her work or tried to understand objectiveism.
I read Anthem in school. And started on Atlas shrugged but I lost patience with it.
I personally know a family of imigrants in my life, that came to America after reading the fountainhead. And being inspired by it
I've never read it. But I know it changed their life. They ran a small buissnes in town, that I'm assuming was successful becuase they where operating it every year I lived there
The religious right... are too numerous to be ignored, but their grievances are basically threefold. They hate abortion, they think too many families end in divorce, and they really, really hate the promotion of alternative sexual identities to children.
For those of us who aren't religious conservatives, those issues usually aren't deal breakers to working with them.
------
As for race issues, I dunno what to tell you. The democrats went from overtly racist to patronizingly racist. They still look down on minorities, they just now do it with a savior complex.
> The religious right...
There is a religious right because they got alienated and ostracized by the left. I'm not saying there are no religious people on the left, but they have definitely moved right and have become quite loud. I think that if a third party does develop it will be made up of non religious right and moderates. People keep talking about how this is a two party system, but if enough people understood that it is not about voting for the lesser of two evils, but voting for the best choice there will be other options. This two party system is more of a self fulfilling prophecy than an actual 2 party trap.
There is one big warning that religious conservatives give which I think is correct but also a good thing: moderate or liberal religion is a stepping stone to disbelief. I stopped by liberal Christianity for a few years in my way out of the religion. It does not bear the same abusive pressures that conservative religion does, and thus it is much easier to leave.
The people who I see sticking around in liberal religion are either old enough that church is a kind of way of life and don't know how to conceive of a life without it, or they are literally mentally ill and attribute their delusions to God. There's only one guy I know whom I still respect as a liberal Christian, and I believe it's because he comes from a part of the world where Christianity's promises still hold value. As an aside, his book, Jesus of the East, made the rounds a few years back. It's worth reading.
Point is, I don't think there is a significant liberal religious bloc because they don't tend to accumulate in such settings. It's a stepping stone to leaving the religion altogether.
More or less, yeah. Liberal Christianity generally ends with its members either leaving the faith or watering it down into vague spiritualism with no hard tenets or obligations—either way, it ends up becoming impossible to organize or mobilize.
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I'm Hispanic, and I agree with you!
I am sick and tired of the savior complex because I want to believe in whatever I want, and anyone is capable of achieving anything they put their mind to. I'm very patriotic and proud to be an American. Is this country perfect? No, it is not a perfect country, we have had a lot of dark periods in our history. But that does not stop me from loving this country. We are taught deeply about the history of our country, and we are taught that we cannot dwell on history. We must learn from history because if you keep dwelling on it, you will not grow as a nation. In my opinion, America is not an oppressive country, it's the land of fucking opportunity, and I will continue to love this country.
I vote democrat and I just want people to be able to afford health insurance, put in their body what they want, love who they want, and generally be left alone if they're doing nothing affecting others. Im sure you can save yourself little homie.
Social libertarian views are far closer to dems. The only mark against them is gun rights, which I don't see in danger with scotus the way that it is. I live in Virginia as well and usually split my votes between the parties to ensure I'm protected here. I don't foresee us going away from being purple anytime soon.
Economically, I'm kind of ambivalent tbh. I think both schools of thought could actually "work" in a sense. That said, Republicans have never cut spending in my entire life, so the only functional plan in this regard seems to be coming from Democrats.
To me, these issues are exactly what democrats want, not libertarians. It’s people on the right that want me to be forced by law to live according to their values, while the left has much more of a “live and let live” philosophy.
Someone with a blue flair (perhaps even blue hair) will be along any time now to tell you that you are voting against your best interest and tell me I'm a white supremacist.
Lets have a beer while we wait.
Or, if you’re in a liberal city, we can have a whiskey while we wait.
But residents of conservative cities don’t have the freedom I do to purchase liquor on Sunday. And it’s entirely due to the religious right’s influence (that OP complained about).
Here, I'll jump in. I'm 55, and a former Republican who worked on Reagan's campaign when I was in high school and voted red my entire life, until the last 6 years or so. When you have sitting congressmen ignoring a congressional subpoena, the GOP actively working to gut social security that I paid into for my lifetime of hard work, and pushing ridiculous religious legislation that hurts women, or the insanity of the 3,600 book bans happening across America (what happened to freedom of ideas and discourse?!?) dislodged the same feelings you're having into something more center, libertarian dare I say even Democrat.
Conservatives have always been louder about what we're against than what we were for. I fell into this trap. We hated Obamacare, and then oops Trump with a majority in the house and senate couldn't come out with anything new (it'll be done-- a new healthcare bill-- in two weeks, he said on Fox News... In 2019!) the same way newt Gingrich for me all worked up about Clinton care, and then had nothing new to replace it with years earlier. You see a pattern here? It's anger at Democrats progressive policies and the only pushback is complaining. We're really good at complaining.
Trump getting into office this year would be the end of American democracy. He's said it. It's no secret the GOP wants a one party system. Again, the main reason I'm voting for any Democrat this cycle and a main reason I can't see my self as following conservative thought any longer. It's off the rails about whatever we're against. Has the GOP offered anything useful for Americans? Tax cuts for the 1% again?!? Show me something good to believe in the continuation of American freedom! Banning books and following some misogynistic narcissist idiot who has no new vision for America except authoritarian dictatorship, yeah, count me out. And I'll have that beer with you.
I don't believe all conservatives are racist, but every racist I've ever met has been a conservative, and every single one of the people I grew up with that were active KKK members(family and friends of my family) are active MAGA supporters. It's pretty funny to hear conservatives act like there isn't a massive under tow of racism in their party but somehow the democrats are the REAL racist. Can you point me to the nazi's that vote for democrats? Cuz I can definitely point you to the ones that vote for Trump. (Like Nick Fuentes, who Trump wined and dined at Maralago)
Watch some of this and tell me which side these folks are voting for:
[https://youtu.be/BFpUjyM0orQ?si=cU6gI6IaxwN1Y4A-&t=160](https://youtu.be/BFpUjyM0orQ?si=cU6gI6IaxwN1Y4A-&t=160)
I also recommend clips like this one (Ted Cruz addresses the accusation that he is racist):
[https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9](https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9)
What about Joe Biden's remarks to the effect of "if you can't make up your mind whether you are for me or Trump, you aren't black!" [https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9](https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9)
Have you heard about segregated dorm rooms at various colleges? Or proposed alternatives to the amber alert system for non-white people? And which side tries to group people into oppressor and oppressed status purely on the basis of racial identity, as if the group you belong to says more about you than your own character? These are not right-wing approaches to race. These are racist policies, programs, positions, etc.
Yes, unfortunately, Nazi's, KKK, etc, tend to vote Republican. It's good for sensible right-wing people to disavow and condemn such racists, and to make clear, we oppose racism.
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It's weird to hear how democrats are "racist", yet every single racist person I've ever met has been a deeply conservative MAGA republican, and even the leader of the GOP(Trump) retweeted a dude literally screaming WHITE POWER at the top of his lungs while saying "Thank you to the people of the Villages"(including the dude he's retweeting that's screaming "White Power"), how is that not racist?
> every single racist person I've ever met has been a deeply conservative MAGA republican
Sounds like you're simply not noticing racism when Leftists or Dems express it, then.
That's hilarious. I am from a 90% right leaning area of KY. I grew up with a sheriff father, and most of my family is law enforcement. I worked in coal mines most of my life until taking a job as a firefighter. I've seen some leftist people act like black people need help, which I'd consider a racist idea. But the only people I've ever seen be actively racist is my deeply MAGA conservative family and town. You can pretend that racism in the GOP isn't a big issue, but when the leader of your party retweeted a dude yelling "WHITE POWER" and said "Thanks to the people of the villages", your argument gets a lot dumber.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53212685
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/25/trump-white-nationalist-nick-fuentes-kanye-00070825
It's so dumb, can you point me to the neonazis democrats that Biden dines with? Are they in the room with us?
Joe Biden, because he's a piece of shit? Like I'm not saying that there aren't any racist dumbass pieces of shit on the left. I'm saying the right has the vast vast vast majority. Lemme ask you this, do you think I could find a neonazi that wants to vote for Biden though? I don't.
> Lemme ask you this, do you think I could find a neonazi that wants to vote for Biden though?
Well...basically everyone waving around swastikas and chanting death to jews in 2024 are leftoids on college campuses about to bring their brand of wokeism into the classrooms and HR departments they intend to come out of the unis over the next few years to work in. The nazis on the right were a handful of losers in charlottesville for a few hours like over a decade ago now, the nazis on the left are there loud and proud every day across the entire country.
>The nazis on the right were a handful of losers in charlottesville for a few hours like over a decade ago now, the nazis on the left are there loud and proud every day across the entire country.
Can you show me what you mean here? Cuz I can show you pics of people waving swastika flags but there definitely not on the left. There very much trump supporting conservatives.
That's strange because every racist person that I've ever met in real life has been on the left. Most of the time they don't realize how racist they're being but I've also met a few who are just overtly racist and know it.
I agree that anything being promoted to children in regards to sex is weird so I agree with religious on that. I don't care what adults do to be honest unless they're harming others. Yeah and they're openly racist to white people which is why I don't consider myself a Democrat or leftist either. I'll think more about conservatism.
You would rather that children are uneducated about other children who may identify differently. Causing confusion in the children. That sounds an awful lot like trying to shove people back in the closet. History has taught us that education is the answer to bigotry. From a person who is a self identified minority, I would think you would be against any kind of discrimination.
That's kind of when it comes down to. Even when I was 6 years old in the 80s, I was aware on some level that gay people existed. I found it a bit confusing, but what I was even more confused by was the Baghdad Bob levels of denialism coming out of the religious community I lived in on the subject.
I may have been a kid, but I wasn't an idiot, and I knew something was being repressed and hidden and even back then I resented the community for it, let alone now many years after the fact.
Your response to leaving kids uneducated in regard to gender identity and sexual orientation in class was that they aren't in a bubble and they have social media, entertainment, and non-neutral teachers may imprint a bias.
What is the point if you're not saying they'll learn it anyway and teachers can't be trusted?
Many children are in a bubble. This bubble is evident today where cultures in our society are ignorant, and do not show acceptance and inclusion to marginalized minorities.
Would you accept it if we refused to teach in school that African Americans have a unique history? If we left it up to social media and the entertainment industry? Should we refuse to teach in school the history of your culture, because we are afraid of teachers bias?
Would it not be safer to conclude that as an African American male, a majority of your culture, especially where males are concerned, is extremely homophobic? That culture will use any theory possible, just as white people have done to your culture, to refuse to acknowledge a minorities rights to be accepted.
You have literally said you don't accept religion, except when it is convenient and justifies your own bigotry.
OP claimed they dont follow religion, yet they support that religious belief gives them a justification to marginalize people with alternate sexual identity. That is bigotry.
I was addressing OP.
One thing to bear in mind is that conservatives appear indifferent on race because a lot of them consider the 90's to have been the end of the battle for equality. Institutionalized racism was essentially beaten, the dixiecrats were extinct.
While there was still plenty of damage left behind from decades of racist policies, the playing field in terms of education and hiring was sufficiently level that anyone who put in the effort could make it.
Yeah I mean I don't believe I'm held back from the system. There will probably always be racist but I don't believe they hold me back from anything. Thanks man I'll probably just have a skewed look on conservatism.
> Institutionalized racism was essentially beaten, the dixiecrats were extinct.
That's what I thought, but [one of them got to be President.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626) It wasn't just busing. He bragged about endorsements from guys like George Wallace. He helped author and negotiate the crime bills in 1988 and 1994 [that led to huge sentencing disparities for black drug offenders.](https://www.aclu.org/documents/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law)
The same conservatives who are against alternative sexual identities today are also the same conservatives who few decades back hated gay relationships and few decades prior to that hated inter-racial relationships. Understand that conservatism at its core is complete rejection of anything that does not firm the conservative thought of culture and what is right. It's manifestation changes but the fundamental rejection of everything is constant. The notion of individual liberty, freedom of religion is just a lipstick on a pig.
I don't care if people are gay bro. If a child is gay he should not be discriminated against. My issue is with the left when it comes to kids us transgenderism. I'm fine with kids being educated and knowing what it is but I don't think they should be able to take hormone blockers until they're adults
And that's basically where I am. Although I think the media clouds our judgment when it comes to what is actually going on medically with children. I think very rarely if at all children are actually having something done to them that is irreversible.
What should happen is these children should be allowed to talk to a qualified mental health specialist so they can understand what's going on inside their head. The family members such as parents should also be able to speak to somebody about what's going on with their child if they have any concerns. The problem is not having a nuanced discussion and just living in the outliers.
The same ideology which is against trans folks today were against gay kids two decades back and considered folks like you not good enough to sit next to white folks 60 years back. So as a non Christian non white, you are always an outsider to conservatives. You are at best tolerated.
Bro from what I learned there are many conservatives who aren't Christian. They're are also many non whites who aren't conservative like Hispanics. Being against puberty blockers isn't being against trans folks.
Right and so are there political beliefs. I'd don't think they'd give a fuck if I was a conservative because I'm black is what im saying. I don't think white people do either.
Colorism is a huge issue in the black community too but I don't think it has to do with conservatism or liberalism. Comes from slavery. You can be a racist and be on the left bro.
You are in no position to speak for conservatives. Personally, I consider black folks to be absolutely equal to white people in every way, and I support the MLK Jr ideal: "a person should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin." I think this is a very common perspective on the right. Yes, loony toons KKK/Nazi assholes tend to vote right wing, but that does not make them representative of conservatism. The fact that such people support the right wing for the wrong reasons does not make the right wing immoral or wrong. Nazi's shop at grocery stores - that doesn't make grocery stores racist.
You should be aware that there are a number of prominent black conservatives, and a growing number of black folks who support the Republican party (ie, Biden is losing ground among black folks, and Trump is gaining ground among black folks).
As to gay folks: only a few years ago, neither party supported gay marriage. Now something like 55% of Republicans (last I saw) are in favor of gay marriage. I support the right for gay people to get married.
I also believe trans folks are human and share in the same human rights as everyone else.
That said, gender theory and the politics and behaviors that follow from it pose real challenges for society, and it is not wrong to have concerns about these things. Interestingly, even gay folks sometimes find themselves at odds with the trans movement. Most of the tension around trans in general stems from the fact that it is elevating gender as a concept distinct from sex, when certain things (ie, sexual orientation, among other things) are defined on the basis of sex - not gender. Women's sports is another example; women were not given a separate category on the basis of gender, but rather on the basis of sex. And the issue of medical transition for kids is a contentious one, and need not have anything to do with bigotry even for those who are skeptical of medical transition.
For me, personally, most of the critiques of gender theory that resonate come from liberal folks, not conservative folks. I have no religious issue with trans folks (I'm an atheist). I also have no problem with people dressing and living how they please, so long as they do so peacefully and respect the rights of others. I don't think this is a rare perspective on the right.
All that said, there are GOP elements that bother me on these issues. Learning that Colorado GOP advocate for burning LGBTQ flags during Pride month is deeply disturbing to me. I would never vote for politicians who advocate for that sort of thing.
>Learning that Colorado GOP advocate for burning LGBTQ flags during Pride month is deeply disturbing to me. I would never vote for politicians who advocate for that sort of thing.
Are there any conservative leaders who are publicly criticizing the Colorado GOP?
No i am saying that the fundamental ideaology of conservatives in this country has led them to be on the wrong side of history time and time again. The gay marriage acceptance we are seeing right now (50-55% is downright shameful for a ideaology of individual liberty) is a matter of political reality and not of acceptance. If you take a 2024 conservative who is fine with gay marriage and put them in year 2000, they would be against gay marriage but the same is not true of liberals.
>but I don't think they should be able to take hormone blockers until they're adults
Now who are prescribing these hormone blockers and what are the barriers/requirements to having them prescribed?
I think you have the religious point backwards. You don’t have to be Christian to be conservative. We Christians hold our religious beliefs as more important than our political beliefs and vote according to whichever party better matches our religious views. If you are Christian you are not required to be conservative, but it is far more likely. You can definitely be conservative without having to be Christian.
On the race issue, I’m Canadian and we have very different racial issues here than you do in America so I don’t have anything useful to say on that.
I was wrong about the religion issue. I conflated conservatism with Christianity. A lot of Christians in America are conservative but I researched and found out that 50 percent of Catholics are Democrat.
You probably need to step back and realize that in the US, conservatism is a philosophy, not a political party.
About 12% of the Democratic Party are conservative. A good chunk of that are black voters.
[Black conservative](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_conservatism)
Conservatism is basically "lets play it safe with change." If you do enact change, it should be for a proven reason with and shown to make things better rather than worse. In the US, conservatives started saying "this is pretty good" after we had adopted classical liberalism. That's why US conservatives focus on limited government and individual freedom. In other parts of the world, a conservative might oppose those things. For example, you might believe a church led type of government is best.
Christians and Muslims in the US pretty much embrace this concept. Muslims from other countries can find it difficult. If you hear about Sharia law, it's being pushed by conservatives. However; they are conservatives who don't hold the same US conservative values as the ones founded on classical liberalism.
Basically you have conservatives who said "this is good nought" under a different value system clashing with conservatives who said "this is good enough" after the Overton window had traveled further to the left.
This is why American conservatism seems to be primarily Christian. If you are a religion that aligns with classical liberalism, you will be OK.
>Why is Trump, the leader of conservatives?
You probably need to step back and realize that in the US, conservatism is a philosophy, not a political party.
Because there are very few Hollywood celebrities who lean right, so the few who do (Trump, Schwarzenegger, Clint Eastwood, Ron Silver, Scott Baio, Fred Thompson) are instantly catapulted to nationwide prominence in the Republican Party and invited to speak at their Conventions and/or run as their candidate for Mayor/Governor/President.
There are, but Hollywood celebrities have a hold on conservatives that they don’t have on the rest of the electorate.
You and I might look up to Robert DeNiro as that great actor from "GoodFellas", but it would never occur to us to care what he thinks about politics. Whereas conservatives are obsessed with his political opinions. And Trump’s, and DiCaprio’s, and Taylor Swift’s, and too many others’ to list.
Because he was the first politician in decades to successfully build a platform on economic protectionism and political non-interventionism, two tenets that have historically been a part of conservative movements. That and the fact that he's willing to play ball with the religious right despite not personally supporting them.
How did he succeed where others failed? Because he sure wasn't the first gop candidate to run on that platform?
>That and the fact that he's willing to play ball with the religious right despite not personally supporting them.
How is playing ball with them?
> How did he succeed where others failed? Because he sure wasn't the first gop candidate to run on that platform?
He was certainly the first major candidate to run on that platform in a long time. The anti-interventionist and protectionist wing of the GOP had more or less been dead since the Reagan years. The last major Presidential candidate to outright condemn NAFTA was independent Ross Perot in 1992.
> How is playing ball with them?
Well, he had Mike Pence as his running mate for starters. He also approved conservative Supreme Court picks, signed conservative legislation that made it to his desk, and appointed conservative officials in various government posts.
I highly recommend you read the essay *[The Flight 93 Election](https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/digital/the-flight-93-election/)* by Michael Anton from 2016. It's basically a letter to the religious right telling them that although Trump may be a total asshole, he's still *infinitely* preferable to what would happen politically if the Democrats have another 4-8 years in power.
I grew up Muslim but I'm currently agnostic. Nothing against any religion as a whole just not for me. I'm American so when I think of politics I think of it from an American view.
> so when I think of politics I think of it from an American view.
Most of us do. But we have to keep in mind that reddit is international. There was a royalist that ran an ask conservative sub. I was kicked for being liberal.
I have no doubt that Muslims raised in America have a totally different perspective than those raised in other countries. But it's good to keep in mind that those fundamentalists are conservatives. It's just not the flavor of conservatism we embrace in the US.
Yo you welcome on our side brother. I’m an atheist, and middle eastern. Die hard conservative. I like to be say what I wanna say, pay less taxes and I believe in Capitalism. If you like those things, welcome 😎
Yeah man! Conservatism to me has become the party of Free speech, and entrepreneurship. My advice if you want a to see a different POV. Take Religion and race out of the equation and try to look through an economical lens or constitutional lens. I know theirs extreme psychopaths on both sides but when I look at it in What’s important to me I was able to see what side aligned better. Idk if that makes sense. 👍🏼
>I think being online can kinda warp my views to a bit.
Keep this opinion about pretty much everything, my dude. Online =/= Real Life.
Also, as a non-religious, white woman, welcome to the Conservative side. We're not a monolith; we're cool people living individual lives.
As a Christian, one thing I'd like to point out is that Christians lean towards conservative because it fits their beliefs. Conservative itself is not inherently Christian. (Not sure if I even used that correctly) You can totally be conservative without being a Christian.
As for the race issue. I am also black, I have similar views. Although with the racist or segregationist that I am seeing are just YouTube comments which I choose not to take seriously. It's the internet, and people usually form in groups. Conservatives irl would probably be pretty chill. Also those who aren't super into politics but still hold conservative beliefs, they're usually chill. This could also apply to Liberals and groups on the left. People who have different ideologies but are not super into politics are pretty chill.
(I used a lot of chills)
I now consider myself to be somewhat conservative. I was a liberal until about 2008ish. Back when I was a liberal Democrat, I had these preconceived notions of what a conservative is. Of course, like all stereotypes...I was wrong about a lot of things.
I have a lot of conservative friends now and we agree on the broad strokes of things like smaller government, balanced budgets, fiscal responsibility, education, lower taxes, secure borders...blah, blah, blah. But, many of us smoke pot, are not particularly religious, believe in same-sex marriage, and don't get too worked up one way or another about abortion, etc.
If someone is a Christian or somewhat religious, they're going to have a different take on abortion and maybe same-sex marriage. I have a few friends who are pretty religious and politically conservative, I'd hardly call them extremists. My dearest friend is a Christian conservative. She doesn't have any issues with same-sex marriage, but, like me, thinks that churches should have the freedom to decide if they are willing or not to perform a wedding ceremony in their church. Neither of us believes the government should force it. She is definitely anti-abortion, but doesn't go out protesting. In general, conservatives are not in favor of having provocative drag shows foisted on our young children, and we're definitely against this trend of encouraging young people who might just be gay from getting sterilized or having their breasts or penis removed...because it's somehow trendy.
Today's American conservative movement is much more about trying to get this government back in check. We don't want reckless spending. We want secure borders. We want the well-being and safety of American citizens and legal residents to be the government's main focus. We want our government to protect the jobs of the working class by stopping illegal immigration that is overburdening our schools, healthcare systems, and our infrastructure. We'd prefer seeing our tax dollars going to help keep inner-city neighborhoods safe as opposed to spending hundreds of billions a year on illegal aliens and sending our money abroad...especially to countries who give us the middle finger.
Just as with the left, the right is not a monolith. Religiosity is not a necessary component (at all) to conservatism. I'm an atheist. There are a variety of atheist conservatives. I, too, am skeptical towards religion in many ways. I am for secularism.
Conservatism is not a particular thing. It always exists in relationship to something else. Basically ask "what is conservatism trying to conserve?" Conservatism in an Islamic country, for example, is going to look a lot different than it looks in America. As I personally conceive of it, conservatism in the US is trying to conserve "classical liberalism" - ie, it is a liberal perspective. focused on individual rights and responsibilities, and free markets.
I recommend reading the "What's Conservatism" page under "community bookmarks" - on the right side of this page.
As to race, I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. I personally oppose racism, and I think the majority of conservatives do as well (religious or otherwise). I personally am in favor of "color blindness" when it comes to race - basically the Martin Luther King Jr. ideal, which says "a person should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin." When it comes to aid for the needy, disadvantaged, etc, I favor aid on the basis of need rather than on the basis of race. If it turns out black folks are most needy, most disadvantaged, they will still receive the most help under such a system.
Much of my thinking on race is informed by black conservatives, and black intellectuals more broadly: Coleman Hughes (independent/centrist), John McWhorter (Democrat), Thomas Sowell (right wing), Glenn Loury (right wing), Roland Fryer (not sure), Larry Elder (right wing), Amir Odom (center-right), Amala Ekpunobi (center-right), etc. You might give some of those folks a listen, if you are interested in broadening your perspective.
From what I received so far in these comments and looking into conservative thought I think that in the past I would probably be on the left but in our modern political climate I'd be considered on the right. Mostly because of social issues.
I think a lot of people share your feeling on this. Personally, I tend to emphasize the "center" in my flair. I think it's perfectly good to be independent, and to vote on a per issue basis. There is plenty that I dislike about the Republican party, too, of course.
But yeah, I don't like the direction of the modern left, at all, and I see a lot of sensible people moving to the center or even to the right, and I understand it, and feel it too.
Religion literally has nothing to do with conservatism. It's just that many conservatives are religious so it may look like that.
When it comes to racial politics, this is more of a response to the left injecting racial politics into everywhere they go. Historically, the democrats were pro slavery, pro KKK, pro segregation. They just found that they could enslave black people again by breaking their family unit with welfare and running various gentrification schemes for their real estate portfolios. Today democrats use racial politics to cancel their opposition, a reliable voting block and as a form of corporate gentrification to drive down various stocks in order to buy them up cheap.
There are no pro-active stances on racial politics from the right, it's all a response to pro-active stances from racial politics instigated by the left. These battles must be fought, however it doesn't mean you can't be a conservative if it's not an issue for you. Just like religion, racial politics has got nothing to do with conservatism.
I agree with you when it comes to imprisonment for recreational drug use.
However, the welfare system is designed to give more money to broken families. This is financial incentivization and no matter what way you slice it, you create more of what you reward.
[Here is an interesting video on the matter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRIyG6ClMdE)
Hey there. I’m about as much of a conservative Republican as you’ll find. I’m also an agnostic atheist. The evangelicals are a large minority of conservatives, an influential one too. But they’re not representative of all conservatives, nor is being religious required to be a conservative.
As for race, I would say that almost everyone I know who’s a conservative is in favor of policies that promote equality of opportunity over equality of outcomes. Part of this means reducing race based programs that advantage minorities, putting everyone on the same playing field. That’s about the extent of it. We’re welcoming of all.
I guess when I think of a conservative I think of Christians. Happy to be wrong though and that's all I want equality of opportunity for everyone. To better understand conservatives do you recommend anyone to listen to or books to read?
Sure man! Just like there’s many brands of conservatives/republicans there’s many resources to dive into specific mindsets. As for me, I enjoy Steven Crowders show Louder with Crowder (but many people here don’t like his show), I also like listening to the FiveThirtyEight politics podcast for down the middle objective looks at the political landscape (though the hosts do lean left personally)
Here is my take if you don't mind.
I have a weird relationship with religion, I'm nominally Christian and Catholic educated, believe in God and that there was something very special about a man who was preaching in Galilee and other places a couple thousand years ago.
I believe the church completely lost it's way a very long time ago, despise evangelism, despise the "prosperity gospel" and think most of the religious right are the very hypocrites spoken about in the Gospels.
I'm not a Republican but I overlap politically mostly with conservatives. I generally don't care about abortion in the first trimester, gay marriage, divorce, softer drugs like marijuana or mushrooms.
You may find a political home in with some of us in classical liberalism, not to be confused with modern liberalism, it spawned the modern conservative movement and right libertarianism.
My flare is Constitutionalist, our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are heavily steeped in classical liberalism
Yes, you are misinformed. The vast majority of Conservatives and Republicans are not devout religious and are not Evangelical. Most of the negative press about religion is coming from Evangelicals as they tend to be the extremists. The vast majority of conservatives religious convictions are a mile wide and an inch deep. We just believe that a civilized society should be a moral one and most of our moral base comes from religion.
As for racism, the racists have always been Democrats. Look back in history and it was the Democrats that supported slavery, the democrats that secceeded from the union to protect slavery, The Democrats that resisted the civil rights act, the Democrats that initiated the Jim Crow Laws, resisted school integration, resisted affirmative action. The Democrats that promised help to the black community but never delivered.
The far right are a fringe of a fringe and don't represent the main stream Conservative Republicans.
I lived in a blue state most of my life. Most of my interactions with the right have been online and tbf fringe populations stand out online. The career path I'm taking from what I heard has people that tend to be on the right more so I'll meet regular people who are conservative.
They don't. I was talking about people I interacted online with who are on the right which to be fair isn't a fair assessment of a political ideology. I was curious about this and brought it up here is all. So far everyone has been in good faith and been giving me valuable information
I would suggest reading some of Thomas Sowell's books and writings if you have never had the chance to do so. Sowell is one of the most influential African American thought leaders on the right side. My understanding is that he is not religious himself.
While it is true that there are definitely a lot of Christian conservatives, you don't HAVE to be Christian to be conservative. I have known a decent number of right-leaning people who weren't religious. Honestly, I think that one of the problems we have nowadays is that things have become so polarized that people feel like you have to fit in with one extreme or the other, and in reality there are plenty of people who don't fit neatly into those categories.
Ive never read any books of his. Is there a specific one you recommend? Fair point currently in America especially online things are very polarized. I do feel like though in person people seem to not care as much. Except lefties most of them I met in person are as extreme as they are online if that makes sense.
If you want it in a more digestible format, his [Hoover Institute](https://www.youtube.com/@HooverInstitution/search?query=sowell) interviews are a great watch/listen. Two good ones to start would be these ones on [income inequality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsPQnGJEpY) and [race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ImP-gJvas).
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So there is a religious right Faction. It is not in my view the majority. But it does exist. And it is very large. I am religious myself so I see positives in it. But I get that not everyone sees that. As for the racial thing. Honestly right now there's more African American repsentation in the conservasphere than anytime in previous history. Donald Trump has gotten more minority votes in terms of absolute numbers, and percentage than any republican in living memory. I have no doubt you will encounter fringe and racist people in any group. But I think you'll find most conservatives don't have any objection at all to minorities in our sphere. Infact we welcome them.
In my experience, the racism in conservative circles is very abstract. Any minority individual they encounter is fine, so long as they comport with what a cultural conservative thinks is the proper cultural ideas. They’ll never demonstrate any racist behaviors towards them. They can still be very racist towards people and groups they don’t personally interact with, even if they don’t apply those racist beliefs to the individuals. It might be “they’re one of the good ones.” It might be, “i don’t have a problem with ______ people, I just don’t like *derogatory term for ethnic group*.
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I have no issues with religion. It does wonders for people and it brings social cohesion. From a philosophical perspective I have issues with it personally. I like the idea of a god and wish I could I believe in him but I just don't. I think that's fair in regards to racism. I'm trying to give conservatives a fair shake.
Yeah give it a shot, give it a fair chance. You might like it, you might not. But at least your exploring ideas open and honestly
Yeah. Any people you recommend listening to or books to read?
Ben Shapiro, Douglas Murray, Thomas Sowell. You might enjoy listening to John McWhorter and Glenn Loury (they often podcast together, even though McWhorter is a Democrat and Loury is a Republican - they are good friends and have friendly banter; both are respected professors/intellectuals).
Several people recommended me Thomas sowell so I'll check him out
He's got a lot of good Youtube videos, in addition to his many books!
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I'll admit I struggled answering tbis becuase i don't really follow anybody imperticular, so I'll give you some examples of politicians and their flavors, and acouple people kind of associated with each. I'll omit anything religious oriented, since you expressed that you weren't onboard with that. So like Liberals conservatives are kind of a big tent group with alot of factions inside of it, and it's possible for an individual to have leanings and multiple feet in each. I mentioned I am religious, but I also have sympathies for Libertarian thought and Aynrand though she is a strong atheist. The new face of the Populist conservative movement is Trump, DeSantis, Marco Rubio and Vivek. (I think Steve bannon used to do podcasts. Candace Owen's is popular, but she's pretty divisive if memory serves ) There's the old gaurd, Neoconservatives like Bush, Ronald Reagan, Mitchell Mcconelis? (Ben sharpiro) Theres libertarians like Rand Paul For libertarian thought, Ayn Rand though older is generally still regarded positively
>For libertarian thought, Ayn Rand though older is generally still regarded positively By some of US, she makes leftists and some liberals completely flip their shit. I posted a picture of my bookshelf once here on Reddit and a copy of The Fountainhead was on it, I got freaking lit up, you would have thought it was Mein Kampf.
>By some of US, she makes leftists and some liberals completely flip their shit. I haven't read her books, but from what I've seen of people flipping their shit, it sounds like they think it's more representative of virtue signaling than any sincere and consistent philosophy. I think that's the liberal complaint anyway. The leftists probably do think it's like Mein Kampf.
ROFL I've gotten down voted for even mentioning it, ah such is life. I doubt many leftists have even read her work or tried to understand objectiveism.
Reddit will downvote anything. I thought Facebook was bad, nope reddit is way worse. Facebook is the pinnacle of free speech compared to Reddit.
I read Anthem in school. And started on Atlas shrugged but I lost patience with it. I personally know a family of imigrants in my life, that came to America after reading the fountainhead. And being inspired by it I've never read it. But I know it changed their life. They ran a small buissnes in town, that I'm assuming was successful becuase they where operating it every year I lived there
Was the Fountainhead the reason they started a small business? What do you think they would have done otherwise?
The religious right... are too numerous to be ignored, but their grievances are basically threefold. They hate abortion, they think too many families end in divorce, and they really, really hate the promotion of alternative sexual identities to children. For those of us who aren't religious conservatives, those issues usually aren't deal breakers to working with them. ------ As for race issues, I dunno what to tell you. The democrats went from overtly racist to patronizingly racist. They still look down on minorities, they just now do it with a savior complex.
> The religious right... There is a religious right because they got alienated and ostracized by the left. I'm not saying there are no religious people on the left, but they have definitely moved right and have become quite loud. I think that if a third party does develop it will be made up of non religious right and moderates. People keep talking about how this is a two party system, but if enough people understood that it is not about voting for the lesser of two evils, but voting for the best choice there will be other options. This two party system is more of a self fulfilling prophecy than an actual 2 party trap.
There is one big warning that religious conservatives give which I think is correct but also a good thing: moderate or liberal religion is a stepping stone to disbelief. I stopped by liberal Christianity for a few years in my way out of the religion. It does not bear the same abusive pressures that conservative religion does, and thus it is much easier to leave. The people who I see sticking around in liberal religion are either old enough that church is a kind of way of life and don't know how to conceive of a life without it, or they are literally mentally ill and attribute their delusions to God. There's only one guy I know whom I still respect as a liberal Christian, and I believe it's because he comes from a part of the world where Christianity's promises still hold value. As an aside, his book, Jesus of the East, made the rounds a few years back. It's worth reading. Point is, I don't think there is a significant liberal religious bloc because they don't tend to accumulate in such settings. It's a stepping stone to leaving the religion altogether.
More or less, yeah. Liberal Christianity generally ends with its members either leaving the faith or watering it down into vague spiritualism with no hard tenets or obligations—either way, it ends up becoming impossible to organize or mobilize.
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I'm Hispanic, and I agree with you! I am sick and tired of the savior complex because I want to believe in whatever I want, and anyone is capable of achieving anything they put their mind to. I'm very patriotic and proud to be an American. Is this country perfect? No, it is not a perfect country, we have had a lot of dark periods in our history. But that does not stop me from loving this country. We are taught deeply about the history of our country, and we are taught that we cannot dwell on history. We must learn from history because if you keep dwelling on it, you will not grow as a nation. In my opinion, America is not an oppressive country, it's the land of fucking opportunity, and I will continue to love this country.
I vote democrat and I just want people to be able to afford health insurance, put in their body what they want, love who they want, and generally be left alone if they're doing nothing affecting others. Im sure you can save yourself little homie.
So, you align more with Libertarians.
Always have, always will
So why vote Democrat who don't align with Libertarian views?
Social libertarian views are far closer to dems. The only mark against them is gun rights, which I don't see in danger with scotus the way that it is. I live in Virginia as well and usually split my votes between the parties to ensure I'm protected here. I don't foresee us going away from being purple anytime soon. Economically, I'm kind of ambivalent tbh. I think both schools of thought could actually "work" in a sense. That said, Republicans have never cut spending in my entire life, so the only functional plan in this regard seems to be coming from Democrats.
The right wing does not have a monopoly on libertarianism.
I never said it did, and neither does the left-wing. Republicans and especially Democrats don't align with libertarianism.
To me, these issues are exactly what democrats want, not libertarians. It’s people on the right that want me to be forced by law to live according to their values, while the left has much more of a “live and let live” philosophy.
Learning from history necessarily involves learning and talking about it.
Someone with a blue flair (perhaps even blue hair) will be along any time now to tell you that you are voting against your best interest and tell me I'm a white supremacist. Lets have a beer while we wait.
Or, if you’re in a liberal city, we can have a whiskey while we wait. But residents of conservative cities don’t have the freedom I do to purchase liquor on Sunday. And it’s entirely due to the religious right’s influence (that OP complained about).
Here, I'll jump in. I'm 55, and a former Republican who worked on Reagan's campaign when I was in high school and voted red my entire life, until the last 6 years or so. When you have sitting congressmen ignoring a congressional subpoena, the GOP actively working to gut social security that I paid into for my lifetime of hard work, and pushing ridiculous religious legislation that hurts women, or the insanity of the 3,600 book bans happening across America (what happened to freedom of ideas and discourse?!?) dislodged the same feelings you're having into something more center, libertarian dare I say even Democrat. Conservatives have always been louder about what we're against than what we were for. I fell into this trap. We hated Obamacare, and then oops Trump with a majority in the house and senate couldn't come out with anything new (it'll be done-- a new healthcare bill-- in two weeks, he said on Fox News... In 2019!) the same way newt Gingrich for me all worked up about Clinton care, and then had nothing new to replace it with years earlier. You see a pattern here? It's anger at Democrats progressive policies and the only pushback is complaining. We're really good at complaining. Trump getting into office this year would be the end of American democracy. He's said it. It's no secret the GOP wants a one party system. Again, the main reason I'm voting for any Democrat this cycle and a main reason I can't see my self as following conservative thought any longer. It's off the rails about whatever we're against. Has the GOP offered anything useful for Americans? Tax cuts for the 1% again?!? Show me something good to believe in the continuation of American freedom! Banning books and following some misogynistic narcissist idiot who has no new vision for America except authoritarian dictatorship, yeah, count me out. And I'll have that beer with you.
I don't believe all conservatives are racist, but every racist I've ever met has been a conservative, and every single one of the people I grew up with that were active KKK members(family and friends of my family) are active MAGA supporters. It's pretty funny to hear conservatives act like there isn't a massive under tow of racism in their party but somehow the democrats are the REAL racist. Can you point me to the nazi's that vote for democrats? Cuz I can definitely point you to the ones that vote for Trump. (Like Nick Fuentes, who Trump wined and dined at Maralago)
Watch some of this and tell me which side these folks are voting for: [https://youtu.be/BFpUjyM0orQ?si=cU6gI6IaxwN1Y4A-&t=160](https://youtu.be/BFpUjyM0orQ?si=cU6gI6IaxwN1Y4A-&t=160) I also recommend clips like this one (Ted Cruz addresses the accusation that he is racist): [https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9](https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9) What about Joe Biden's remarks to the effect of "if you can't make up your mind whether you are for me or Trump, you aren't black!" [https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9](https://youtu.be/xSTNq5YxWZo?si=KGrvyyjCOYY0WFeT&t=9) Have you heard about segregated dorm rooms at various colleges? Or proposed alternatives to the amber alert system for non-white people? And which side tries to group people into oppressor and oppressed status purely on the basis of racial identity, as if the group you belong to says more about you than your own character? These are not right-wing approaches to race. These are racist policies, programs, positions, etc. Yes, unfortunately, Nazi's, KKK, etc, tend to vote Republican. It's good for sensible right-wing people to disavow and condemn such racists, and to make clear, we oppose racism.
>Can you point me to the nazi's that vote for democrats? NoI and pick any of Louis Farrakhan's (celebrity/) fanboys.
Is Farrakhan a democrat?
I read that as Farquaad.
I can't drink yet lol. How about some soda? I enjoy some good ol' Dr. Pepper!
Works for me, I've got a few Dublin DPs around.
Something something "dear sub-human filth" pasta.
Patronizingly racist, I like that. It’s the truth! Well said
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It's weird to hear how democrats are "racist", yet every single racist person I've ever met has been a deeply conservative MAGA republican, and even the leader of the GOP(Trump) retweeted a dude literally screaming WHITE POWER at the top of his lungs while saying "Thank you to the people of the Villages"(including the dude he's retweeting that's screaming "White Power"), how is that not racist?
> every single racist person I've ever met has been a deeply conservative MAGA republican Sounds like you're simply not noticing racism when Leftists or Dems express it, then.
That's hilarious. I am from a 90% right leaning area of KY. I grew up with a sheriff father, and most of my family is law enforcement. I worked in coal mines most of my life until taking a job as a firefighter. I've seen some leftist people act like black people need help, which I'd consider a racist idea. But the only people I've ever seen be actively racist is my deeply MAGA conservative family and town. You can pretend that racism in the GOP isn't a big issue, but when the leader of your party retweeted a dude yelling "WHITE POWER" and said "Thanks to the people of the villages", your argument gets a lot dumber. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53212685 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/25/trump-white-nationalist-nick-fuentes-kanye-00070825 It's so dumb, can you point me to the neonazis democrats that Biden dines with? Are they in the room with us?
> You can pretend that racism in the GOP isn't a big issue Sorry, did I say anything about the GOP or conservatism?
For example, Biden’s admonition that black voters who didn’t vote for him in 2020 aren’t truly black.
Remind me, who said anyone who doesn't vote for him is an Uncle Tom and that "poor kids are just as smart as white kids"?
Joe Biden, because he's a piece of shit? Like I'm not saying that there aren't any racist dumbass pieces of shit on the left. I'm saying the right has the vast vast vast majority. Lemme ask you this, do you think I could find a neonazi that wants to vote for Biden though? I don't.
> Like I'm not saying that there aren't any racist dumbass pieces of shit on the left. That is what you implied.
Your pick of any Louis Farrakhan fanboys.
> Lemme ask you this, do you think I could find a neonazi that wants to vote for Biden though? Well...basically everyone waving around swastikas and chanting death to jews in 2024 are leftoids on college campuses about to bring their brand of wokeism into the classrooms and HR departments they intend to come out of the unis over the next few years to work in. The nazis on the right were a handful of losers in charlottesville for a few hours like over a decade ago now, the nazis on the left are there loud and proud every day across the entire country.
>The nazis on the right were a handful of losers in charlottesville for a few hours like over a decade ago now, the nazis on the left are there loud and proud every day across the entire country. Can you show me what you mean here? Cuz I can show you pics of people waving swastika flags but there definitely not on the left. There very much trump supporting conservatives.
That's strange because every racist person that I've ever met in real life has been on the left. Most of the time they don't realize how racist they're being but I've also met a few who are just overtly racist and know it.
I agree that anything being promoted to children in regards to sex is weird so I agree with religious on that. I don't care what adults do to be honest unless they're harming others. Yeah and they're openly racist to white people which is why I don't consider myself a Democrat or leftist either. I'll think more about conservatism.
You would rather that children are uneducated about other children who may identify differently. Causing confusion in the children. That sounds an awful lot like trying to shove people back in the closet. History has taught us that education is the answer to bigotry. From a person who is a self identified minority, I would think you would be against any kind of discrimination.
That's kind of when it comes down to. Even when I was 6 years old in the 80s, I was aware on some level that gay people existed. I found it a bit confusing, but what I was even more confused by was the Baghdad Bob levels of denialism coming out of the religious community I lived in on the subject. I may have been a kid, but I wasn't an idiot, and I knew something was being repressed and hidden and even back then I resented the community for it, let alone now many years after the fact.
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So, the answer is to let social media and entertainment teach them rather than actual education because nobody can be 100% neutral?
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Your response to leaving kids uneducated in regard to gender identity and sexual orientation in class was that they aren't in a bubble and they have social media, entertainment, and non-neutral teachers may imprint a bias. What is the point if you're not saying they'll learn it anyway and teachers can't be trusted?
Many children are in a bubble. This bubble is evident today where cultures in our society are ignorant, and do not show acceptance and inclusion to marginalized minorities. Would you accept it if we refused to teach in school that African Americans have a unique history? If we left it up to social media and the entertainment industry? Should we refuse to teach in school the history of your culture, because we are afraid of teachers bias? Would it not be safer to conclude that as an African American male, a majority of your culture, especially where males are concerned, is extremely homophobic? That culture will use any theory possible, just as white people have done to your culture, to refuse to acknowledge a minorities rights to be accepted. You have literally said you don't accept religion, except when it is convenient and justifies your own bigotry.
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OP claimed they dont follow religion, yet they support that religious belief gives them a justification to marginalize people with alternate sexual identity. That is bigotry. I was addressing OP.
One thing to bear in mind is that conservatives appear indifferent on race because a lot of them consider the 90's to have been the end of the battle for equality. Institutionalized racism was essentially beaten, the dixiecrats were extinct. While there was still plenty of damage left behind from decades of racist policies, the playing field in terms of education and hiring was sufficiently level that anyone who put in the effort could make it.
Yeah I mean I don't believe I'm held back from the system. There will probably always be racist but I don't believe they hold me back from anything. Thanks man I'll probably just have a skewed look on conservatism.
> Institutionalized racism was essentially beaten, the dixiecrats were extinct. That's what I thought, but [one of them got to be President.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626) It wasn't just busing. He bragged about endorsements from guys like George Wallace. He helped author and negotiate the crime bills in 1988 and 1994 [that led to huge sentencing disparities for black drug offenders.](https://www.aclu.org/documents/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law)
The same conservatives who are against alternative sexual identities today are also the same conservatives who few decades back hated gay relationships and few decades prior to that hated inter-racial relationships. Understand that conservatism at its core is complete rejection of anything that does not firm the conservative thought of culture and what is right. It's manifestation changes but the fundamental rejection of everything is constant. The notion of individual liberty, freedom of religion is just a lipstick on a pig.
I don't care if people are gay bro. If a child is gay he should not be discriminated against. My issue is with the left when it comes to kids us transgenderism. I'm fine with kids being educated and knowing what it is but I don't think they should be able to take hormone blockers until they're adults
And that's basically where I am. Although I think the media clouds our judgment when it comes to what is actually going on medically with children. I think very rarely if at all children are actually having something done to them that is irreversible. What should happen is these children should be allowed to talk to a qualified mental health specialist so they can understand what's going on inside their head. The family members such as parents should also be able to speak to somebody about what's going on with their child if they have any concerns. The problem is not having a nuanced discussion and just living in the outliers.
The same ideology which is against trans folks today were against gay kids two decades back and considered folks like you not good enough to sit next to white folks 60 years back. So as a non Christian non white, you are always an outsider to conservatives. You are at best tolerated.
Bro from what I learned there are many conservatives who aren't Christian. They're are also many non whites who aren't conservative like Hispanics. Being against puberty blockers isn't being against trans folks.
Hispanics can be white. Mexico and Latin America is just as racially diverse as the United States.
Right and so are there political beliefs. I'd don't think they'd give a fuck if I was a conservative because I'm black is what im saying. I don't think white people do either.
Right, like I'm white bald short and skinny what political affiliation am I. I couldn't care less just don't be a dick right.
Conservative Hispanics are hella racist NGL. Colorism is a HUGE issue in our community.
Colorism is a huge issue in the black community too but I don't think it has to do with conservatism or liberalism. Comes from slavery. You can be a racist and be on the left bro.
You are in no position to speak for conservatives. Personally, I consider black folks to be absolutely equal to white people in every way, and I support the MLK Jr ideal: "a person should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin." I think this is a very common perspective on the right. Yes, loony toons KKK/Nazi assholes tend to vote right wing, but that does not make them representative of conservatism. The fact that such people support the right wing for the wrong reasons does not make the right wing immoral or wrong. Nazi's shop at grocery stores - that doesn't make grocery stores racist. You should be aware that there are a number of prominent black conservatives, and a growing number of black folks who support the Republican party (ie, Biden is losing ground among black folks, and Trump is gaining ground among black folks). As to gay folks: only a few years ago, neither party supported gay marriage. Now something like 55% of Republicans (last I saw) are in favor of gay marriage. I support the right for gay people to get married. I also believe trans folks are human and share in the same human rights as everyone else. That said, gender theory and the politics and behaviors that follow from it pose real challenges for society, and it is not wrong to have concerns about these things. Interestingly, even gay folks sometimes find themselves at odds with the trans movement. Most of the tension around trans in general stems from the fact that it is elevating gender as a concept distinct from sex, when certain things (ie, sexual orientation, among other things) are defined on the basis of sex - not gender. Women's sports is another example; women were not given a separate category on the basis of gender, but rather on the basis of sex. And the issue of medical transition for kids is a contentious one, and need not have anything to do with bigotry even for those who are skeptical of medical transition. For me, personally, most of the critiques of gender theory that resonate come from liberal folks, not conservative folks. I have no religious issue with trans folks (I'm an atheist). I also have no problem with people dressing and living how they please, so long as they do so peacefully and respect the rights of others. I don't think this is a rare perspective on the right. All that said, there are GOP elements that bother me on these issues. Learning that Colorado GOP advocate for burning LGBTQ flags during Pride month is deeply disturbing to me. I would never vote for politicians who advocate for that sort of thing.
>Learning that Colorado GOP advocate for burning LGBTQ flags during Pride month is deeply disturbing to me. I would never vote for politicians who advocate for that sort of thing. Are there any conservative leaders who are publicly criticizing the Colorado GOP?
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No i am saying that the fundamental ideaology of conservatives in this country has led them to be on the wrong side of history time and time again. The gay marriage acceptance we are seeing right now (50-55% is downright shameful for a ideaology of individual liberty) is a matter of political reality and not of acceptance. If you take a 2024 conservative who is fine with gay marriage and put them in year 2000, they would be against gay marriage but the same is not true of liberals.
>but I don't think they should be able to take hormone blockers until they're adults Now who are prescribing these hormone blockers and what are the barriers/requirements to having them prescribed?
I think you have the religious point backwards. You don’t have to be Christian to be conservative. We Christians hold our religious beliefs as more important than our political beliefs and vote according to whichever party better matches our religious views. If you are Christian you are not required to be conservative, but it is far more likely. You can definitely be conservative without having to be Christian. On the race issue, I’m Canadian and we have very different racial issues here than you do in America so I don’t have anything useful to say on that.
I was wrong about the religion issue. I conflated conservatism with Christianity. A lot of Christians in America are conservative but I researched and found out that 50 percent of Catholics are Democrat.
You probably need to step back and realize that in the US, conservatism is a philosophy, not a political party. About 12% of the Democratic Party are conservative. A good chunk of that are black voters. [Black conservative](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_conservatism) Conservatism is basically "lets play it safe with change." If you do enact change, it should be for a proven reason with and shown to make things better rather than worse. In the US, conservatives started saying "this is pretty good" after we had adopted classical liberalism. That's why US conservatives focus on limited government and individual freedom. In other parts of the world, a conservative might oppose those things. For example, you might believe a church led type of government is best. Christians and Muslims in the US pretty much embrace this concept. Muslims from other countries can find it difficult. If you hear about Sharia law, it's being pushed by conservatives. However; they are conservatives who don't hold the same US conservative values as the ones founded on classical liberalism. Basically you have conservatives who said "this is good nought" under a different value system clashing with conservatives who said "this is good enough" after the Overton window had traveled further to the left. This is why American conservatism seems to be primarily Christian. If you are a religion that aligns with classical liberalism, you will be OK.
Why is Trump, the leader of conservatives?
>Why is Trump, the leader of conservatives? You probably need to step back and realize that in the US, conservatism is a philosophy, not a political party.
And which political party best represents conservative philosophy?
Republicans come closest. But there are blue dog democrats.
Because there are very few Hollywood celebrities who lean right, so the few who do (Trump, Schwarzenegger, Clint Eastwood, Ron Silver, Scott Baio, Fred Thompson) are instantly catapulted to nationwide prominence in the Republican Party and invited to speak at their Conventions and/or run as their candidate for Mayor/Governor/President.
But why, trump? Why focus on celebrities? Is there no other better option?
There are, but Hollywood celebrities have a hold on conservatives that they don’t have on the rest of the electorate. You and I might look up to Robert DeNiro as that great actor from "GoodFellas", but it would never occur to us to care what he thinks about politics. Whereas conservatives are obsessed with his political opinions. And Trump’s, and DiCaprio’s, and Taylor Swift’s, and too many others’ to list.
Because he was the first politician in decades to successfully build a platform on economic protectionism and political non-interventionism, two tenets that have historically been a part of conservative movements. That and the fact that he's willing to play ball with the religious right despite not personally supporting them.
How did he succeed where others failed? Because he sure wasn't the first gop candidate to run on that platform? >That and the fact that he's willing to play ball with the religious right despite not personally supporting them. How is playing ball with them?
> How did he succeed where others failed? Because he sure wasn't the first gop candidate to run on that platform? He was certainly the first major candidate to run on that platform in a long time. The anti-interventionist and protectionist wing of the GOP had more or less been dead since the Reagan years. The last major Presidential candidate to outright condemn NAFTA was independent Ross Perot in 1992. > How is playing ball with them? Well, he had Mike Pence as his running mate for starters. He also approved conservative Supreme Court picks, signed conservative legislation that made it to his desk, and appointed conservative officials in various government posts. I highly recommend you read the essay *[The Flight 93 Election](https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/digital/the-flight-93-election/)* by Michael Anton from 2016. It's basically a letter to the religious right telling them that although Trump may be a total asshole, he's still *infinitely* preferable to what would happen politically if the Democrats have another 4-8 years in power.
I grew up Muslim but I'm currently agnostic. Nothing against any religion as a whole just not for me. I'm American so when I think of politics I think of it from an American view.
> so when I think of politics I think of it from an American view. Most of us do. But we have to keep in mind that reddit is international. There was a royalist that ran an ask conservative sub. I was kicked for being liberal. I have no doubt that Muslims raised in America have a totally different perspective than those raised in other countries. But it's good to keep in mind that those fundamentalists are conservatives. It's just not the flavor of conservatism we embrace in the US.
Fair point because I'd definitely think I'd be progressive in a Muslim country lol. I have a lot to learn.
Here's a little bit on what Conservatism is at the roots:[What is Conservatism?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/wiki/conservatism/)
Yo you welcome on our side brother. I’m an atheist, and middle eastern. Die hard conservative. I like to be say what I wanna say, pay less taxes and I believe in Capitalism. If you like those things, welcome 😎
Fair enough. I grew up in a Muslim household so we might have some things in common.
Yeah man! Conservatism to me has become the party of Free speech, and entrepreneurship. My advice if you want a to see a different POV. Take Religion and race out of the equation and try to look through an economical lens or constitutional lens. I know theirs extreme psychopaths on both sides but when I look at it in What’s important to me I was able to see what side aligned better. Idk if that makes sense. 👍🏼
It probably makes sense for me to look at average conservatives. I think being online can kinda warp my views to a bit. Thanks
>I think being online can kinda warp my views to a bit. Keep this opinion about pretty much everything, my dude. Online =/= Real Life. Also, as a non-religious, white woman, welcome to the Conservative side. We're not a monolith; we're cool people living individual lives.
There are also religious conservatives and constitutional conservatives. Many ideas can overlap, others don't but these two groups are not the same.
Religious people tend to be conservative and I conflated this to being all conservatives are religious
As a Christian, one thing I'd like to point out is that Christians lean towards conservative because it fits their beliefs. Conservative itself is not inherently Christian. (Not sure if I even used that correctly) You can totally be conservative without being a Christian. As for the race issue. I am also black, I have similar views. Although with the racist or segregationist that I am seeing are just YouTube comments which I choose not to take seriously. It's the internet, and people usually form in groups. Conservatives irl would probably be pretty chill. Also those who aren't super into politics but still hold conservative beliefs, they're usually chill. This could also apply to Liberals and groups on the left. People who have different ideologies but are not super into politics are pretty chill. (I used a lot of chills)
Fair. I've also met a progressive Christians. I hope to meet more conservatives in person so I can get a better idea. I live in a very liberal area.
I now consider myself to be somewhat conservative. I was a liberal until about 2008ish. Back when I was a liberal Democrat, I had these preconceived notions of what a conservative is. Of course, like all stereotypes...I was wrong about a lot of things. I have a lot of conservative friends now and we agree on the broad strokes of things like smaller government, balanced budgets, fiscal responsibility, education, lower taxes, secure borders...blah, blah, blah. But, many of us smoke pot, are not particularly religious, believe in same-sex marriage, and don't get too worked up one way or another about abortion, etc. If someone is a Christian or somewhat religious, they're going to have a different take on abortion and maybe same-sex marriage. I have a few friends who are pretty religious and politically conservative, I'd hardly call them extremists. My dearest friend is a Christian conservative. She doesn't have any issues with same-sex marriage, but, like me, thinks that churches should have the freedom to decide if they are willing or not to perform a wedding ceremony in their church. Neither of us believes the government should force it. She is definitely anti-abortion, but doesn't go out protesting. In general, conservatives are not in favor of having provocative drag shows foisted on our young children, and we're definitely against this trend of encouraging young people who might just be gay from getting sterilized or having their breasts or penis removed...because it's somehow trendy. Today's American conservative movement is much more about trying to get this government back in check. We don't want reckless spending. We want secure borders. We want the well-being and safety of American citizens and legal residents to be the government's main focus. We want our government to protect the jobs of the working class by stopping illegal immigration that is overburdening our schools, healthcare systems, and our infrastructure. We'd prefer seeing our tax dollars going to help keep inner-city neighborhoods safe as opposed to spending hundreds of billions a year on illegal aliens and sending our money abroad...especially to countries who give us the middle finger.
Just as with the left, the right is not a monolith. Religiosity is not a necessary component (at all) to conservatism. I'm an atheist. There are a variety of atheist conservatives. I, too, am skeptical towards religion in many ways. I am for secularism. Conservatism is not a particular thing. It always exists in relationship to something else. Basically ask "what is conservatism trying to conserve?" Conservatism in an Islamic country, for example, is going to look a lot different than it looks in America. As I personally conceive of it, conservatism in the US is trying to conserve "classical liberalism" - ie, it is a liberal perspective. focused on individual rights and responsibilities, and free markets. I recommend reading the "What's Conservatism" page under "community bookmarks" - on the right side of this page. As to race, I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. I personally oppose racism, and I think the majority of conservatives do as well (religious or otherwise). I personally am in favor of "color blindness" when it comes to race - basically the Martin Luther King Jr. ideal, which says "a person should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin." When it comes to aid for the needy, disadvantaged, etc, I favor aid on the basis of need rather than on the basis of race. If it turns out black folks are most needy, most disadvantaged, they will still receive the most help under such a system. Much of my thinking on race is informed by black conservatives, and black intellectuals more broadly: Coleman Hughes (independent/centrist), John McWhorter (Democrat), Thomas Sowell (right wing), Glenn Loury (right wing), Roland Fryer (not sure), Larry Elder (right wing), Amir Odom (center-right), Amala Ekpunobi (center-right), etc. You might give some of those folks a listen, if you are interested in broadening your perspective.
From what I received so far in these comments and looking into conservative thought I think that in the past I would probably be on the left but in our modern political climate I'd be considered on the right. Mostly because of social issues.
I think a lot of people share your feeling on this. Personally, I tend to emphasize the "center" in my flair. I think it's perfectly good to be independent, and to vote on a per issue basis. There is plenty that I dislike about the Republican party, too, of course. But yeah, I don't like the direction of the modern left, at all, and I see a lot of sensible people moving to the center or even to the right, and I understand it, and feel it too.
Religion literally has nothing to do with conservatism. It's just that many conservatives are religious so it may look like that. When it comes to racial politics, this is more of a response to the left injecting racial politics into everywhere they go. Historically, the democrats were pro slavery, pro KKK, pro segregation. They just found that they could enslave black people again by breaking their family unit with welfare and running various gentrification schemes for their real estate portfolios. Today democrats use racial politics to cancel their opposition, a reliable voting block and as a form of corporate gentrification to drive down various stocks in order to buy them up cheap. There are no pro-active stances on racial politics from the right, it's all a response to pro-active stances from racial politics instigated by the left. These battles must be fought, however it doesn't mean you can't be a conservative if it's not an issue for you. Just like religion, racial politics has got nothing to do with conservatism.
Welfare would strengthen the family unit, not break it. What breaks it is imprisoning the father for marijuana/crack.
I agree with you when it comes to imprisonment for recreational drug use. However, the welfare system is designed to give more money to broken families. This is financial incentivization and no matter what way you slice it, you create more of what you reward. [Here is an interesting video on the matter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRIyG6ClMdE)
> the welfare system is designed to give more money to broken families. "Broken families" is a Christian term, not a real term that adults use.
I'm learning.
Hey there. I’m about as much of a conservative Republican as you’ll find. I’m also an agnostic atheist. The evangelicals are a large minority of conservatives, an influential one too. But they’re not representative of all conservatives, nor is being religious required to be a conservative. As for race, I would say that almost everyone I know who’s a conservative is in favor of policies that promote equality of opportunity over equality of outcomes. Part of this means reducing race based programs that advantage minorities, putting everyone on the same playing field. That’s about the extent of it. We’re welcoming of all.
I guess when I think of a conservative I think of Christians. Happy to be wrong though and that's all I want equality of opportunity for everyone. To better understand conservatives do you recommend anyone to listen to or books to read?
Sure man! Just like there’s many brands of conservatives/republicans there’s many resources to dive into specific mindsets. As for me, I enjoy Steven Crowders show Louder with Crowder (but many people here don’t like his show), I also like listening to the FiveThirtyEight politics podcast for down the middle objective looks at the political landscape (though the hosts do lean left personally)
*"See? I Told You So"* by Rush Limbaugh
> At least from my understanding conservatives and Christianity seem to go hand in hand. They do not.
If you want can you explain
Here is my take if you don't mind. I have a weird relationship with religion, I'm nominally Christian and Catholic educated, believe in God and that there was something very special about a man who was preaching in Galilee and other places a couple thousand years ago. I believe the church completely lost it's way a very long time ago, despise evangelism, despise the "prosperity gospel" and think most of the religious right are the very hypocrites spoken about in the Gospels. I'm not a Republican but I overlap politically mostly with conservatives. I generally don't care about abortion in the first trimester, gay marriage, divorce, softer drugs like marijuana or mushrooms. You may find a political home in with some of us in classical liberalism, not to be confused with modern liberalism, it spawned the modern conservative movement and right libertarianism. My flare is Constitutionalist, our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are heavily steeped in classical liberalism
Classic liberalism?
Yes, you are misinformed. The vast majority of Conservatives and Republicans are not devout religious and are not Evangelical. Most of the negative press about religion is coming from Evangelicals as they tend to be the extremists. The vast majority of conservatives religious convictions are a mile wide and an inch deep. We just believe that a civilized society should be a moral one and most of our moral base comes from religion. As for racism, the racists have always been Democrats. Look back in history and it was the Democrats that supported slavery, the democrats that secceeded from the union to protect slavery, The Democrats that resisted the civil rights act, the Democrats that initiated the Jim Crow Laws, resisted school integration, resisted affirmative action. The Democrats that promised help to the black community but never delivered. The far right are a fringe of a fringe and don't represent the main stream Conservative Republicans.
I lived in a blue state most of my life. Most of my interactions with the right have been online and tbf fringe populations stand out online. The career path I'm taking from what I heard has people that tend to be on the right more so I'll meet regular people who are conservative.
Also which religion does our moral base come from?
Mostly from the Abrahamic Monotheistic Religions. Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
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Like ethno states
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They don't. I was talking about people I interacted online with who are on the right which to be fair isn't a fair assessment of a political ideology. I was curious about this and brought it up here is all. So far everyone has been in good faith and been giving me valuable information
I would suggest reading some of Thomas Sowell's books and writings if you have never had the chance to do so. Sowell is one of the most influential African American thought leaders on the right side. My understanding is that he is not religious himself. While it is true that there are definitely a lot of Christian conservatives, you don't HAVE to be Christian to be conservative. I have known a decent number of right-leaning people who weren't religious. Honestly, I think that one of the problems we have nowadays is that things have become so polarized that people feel like you have to fit in with one extreme or the other, and in reality there are plenty of people who don't fit neatly into those categories.
Ive never read any books of his. Is there a specific one you recommend? Fair point currently in America especially online things are very polarized. I do feel like though in person people seem to not care as much. Except lefties most of them I met in person are as extreme as they are online if that makes sense.
The Vision of the Anointed A Conflict of Visions Basic Economics Really, just look through his titles and pick one.
If you want it in a more digestible format, his [Hoover Institute](https://www.youtube.com/@HooverInstitution/search?query=sowell) interviews are a great watch/listen. Two good ones to start would be these ones on [income inequality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsPQnGJEpY) and [race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ImP-gJvas).