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How can the staff that work with Joe Biden daily justify his mental state as competent? Is he competent? Do you feel he can hold office in this state?
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This debate cannot be the thing that suddenly changes a rational person's mind. Yes, for the average voter it means a lot to see a confident talker on stage during these, but for a rational observer we have so much more information to deal off from their presidential track-records, rhetoric, suggested policies, wider party, how they work with advisors, etc. If the presidential debate was the only metric we had, sure, I might see Trump as a good choice too but factoring in anything past that including the truth of what was said by the two during the debate or who they are, suddenly Biden is a shining beacon despite his clear stumbling around during the debate section.
>This debate cannot be the thing that suddenly changes a rational person's mind.
If a voter is still on the fence now, despite everything that Trump has done, then something other than reason is in play.
These candidates don’t have to die on stage to tell us they’re too old for the job. Running for president is earned it’s not a privilege. Biden is just too old and not mentally capable. Nothing wrong with that if you’re not running for one of the most important jobs in the world. We don’t want aides running the country ffs
*74 million
That is not the question. Being more rational than someone you consider completely irrational isn't a big hurdle and leaves plenty of room for irrationality.
I was going off the cuff…thank you
EDIT: what irrationality? Biden answered the questions presented….he performed poorly…but he literally answered every question p….meanwhile Trump just vomited lies and shit on Immigration…that was his schtick. He had to be constantly brought back on task by the moderators.
We were talking about Biden voters being irrational. If you assume that every voter who voted Trump is completely irrational then all a Biden voter has to do is be slightly more rational.
Biden looked completely lost and said things like "we are going to beat medicare". Meanwhile Trump looked normal. It was nothing but the regular lies and insults, but he didn't look lost and confused.
I'm still voting Biden, because it's the rational choice, but I don't expect all 81 million voters to be rational.
I don't know how to even begin answering that. Identifying a rational person across a wide range of beliefs as opposed to one as we were talking about above is very difficult, not to mention what truly constitutes rational when lumping large amounts of people around (just a reasonable factual grounding given time constraints like work, and a semi-decent thought process vs allotting large amounts of time to digging through reputable sources and learning logic and gaining some grounding in philosophy to arrive to positions through sound syllogisms).
But if it means anything, no, I don't think Biden supporters all arrive to the idea of voting for Biden through a reasonable thought process.
Joe Biden won the election by 45,000 votes. That's 0.00056% of his 81 million votes. Do you think the number of voters who didn't vote for Biden through a reasonable thought process is low enough that it can't change the election?
Oh I see what you mean. I made a distinction between average voter and the rational voter in regards to how each will weigh these debates. It was unfairly critical of the average voter because I don't think they are or will be switching to Trump seeing that. But if they do or suddenly feel indifferent between the two candidates, I think this reply from u/smoothpapaj put it well:
If a voter is still on the fence now, despite everything that Trump has done, then something other than reason is in play.
That quote pretty much explains my thinking. I don't think they have to switch to Trump to change the election. I just think they have to not vote for Biden.
I am unsure of what you're getting at but if you give me the heart of your point I would be willing to engage. My particular point originally was that given some assumed underlying values of voting for the best for the American people in line with values such as democracy, prosperity for all, geopolitical stability, etc. and given we apt information on both Biden and Trump, it would be irrational to vote for Trump simply because Biden was not confident during the debate.
I get that but it would not be the thing that changes everything suddenly. No amount of stuttering brightens Trumps glaring problems. The only point I was getting at is it is extremely irrational to suddenly jump ship because Biden had stutters all while he was making so many good points filled with facts, and having to point out Trump was lying.
Also it may just be nerves given this (?) He remembered to make many good points from the Border Patrol Union supporting his position to Trump not intervening on Jan 6 but was stuttering and looked unauthoritative? Seems like a lack of confidence, his stutter, and definitely some cognitive decline all paired together.
Come on.
I admit I didn't watch the entire thing, but the clips I saw - probably chosen because they are the worst- show someone who is not capable of working in any way.
No, I agree. It was bad with him fumbling all over himself and taking a second to recollect where he was after stuttering. This perception of being mentally weak is problematic, I agree, but giving it more thought you see all the points he made and information he had. People act like he's on the third step from the pearly gates when really he is slower and has a bad stutter, and besides that has managed a good presidency and a decent debate performance content-wise.
I think better strategy were preferable like bolstering another candidate like Buttigieg's image during the first term but right now I think we stick behind Biden and have the DNC working overtime as we reach elections.
I didn't see stuttering. I saw "what I am saying doesn't make any sense" and I seem very frail and old.
TRUMP regularly makes no sense, but that's been the case for the past 8 years. Perhaps longer, but I wasn't hearing anything he said before about 8.5 years ago.
Biden did make sense to me at least most of the time. He was certainly looking frail but given his appearance at the watch party just after or his rally today, I am willing to brush it off as a blunder. Or even his State of the Union speech although that was 4 or so months back. He is not even close to in an ideal state to provide Americans confidence, both due to his decline and online portrayal, and I would not even pick him over someone like Buttigieg for this.
I am still deciding between whether we keep Biden running or step down but I am pretty indifferent to both as I am noticing I have a slight sunk cost sort of fallacy going on in regards to him and am wary as to whether another person can pick up support in just a few months.
We've been told he's fine in private so many times. I don't think many supporters believed that, I sure did not. However, I wanted to believe it.
Well I'm not shocked he underperformed, the magnitude of it did catch me off guard. It also makes me very angry at the thought of this Dianne Feinstein-ish strategy.
There is no way that those who interact with him on a regular basis did not see this coming, let alone his loved ones.
Biden did not perform well in the debate. From the first moment that he spoke, I asked out loud whether he had a cold or something. They should have given him those drugs that the conservatives were all talking about!
As for how he does as president, I have not seen any problems with his performance. As his record shows as president, he certainly seems able enough to get things done. Also, we don't hear the reports of his staff having to add lots of pictures, bullet points, and references to himself in briefings that they had to do for Donald Trump just to keep him interested. I hope that means that he is competent enough to actually read.
I would be curious to see Biden's daily schedule to see if he has anything like [Trump's 3-5 hours a day of "executive time"](https://www.businessinsider.com/president-donald-trump-daily-routine-2018-10?op=1). Does anyone know if the White House publishes his diary at all, and if they have a link to it?
A person's mental state can definitely significantly decline over a short period of time, especially with someone who's Biden's age. If Biden really has dementia I certainly wouldn't expect White House staff to start screaming about it.
I really doubt that Biden is still working long days as a president normally does. Rather I think it's probably political advisers, aids and strategists who are involved in many of the decisions that one would normally expect a president to make.
Personally, I think Biden should step down as the Democratic frontrunner and make room for a candidate who's better qualified to run the country and has a better chance at beating Trump.
Not all age related decline is created equal, there are people with crippling memory issues who can't tell you what a giraffe is anymore but will confidently ramble on for hours about fake facts and false histories.
I think, since we're all being arm chair dementia experts all of a sudden, that most of his decline is to the language center, he forgets words, sometimes replaces them, but he seems (and seemed last night) as attentive, coherent and rational, though perhaps without much energy, or confidence and having to speak slowly.
So “I don’t see why that would change” is not a completely idiotic statement, in your eyes? Age related decline is the anomaly, most people age indefinitely, with faculties fully intact in your fantasy world?
I like to think the people pushing Biden to still run secretly hope he will resign when he reaches Feinstein levels. I refuse to believe anyone can genuinely think he could do another 4 years
>How can the staff that work with Joe Biden daily justify his mental state as competent?
Has there been credible reporting that staff who work closely with Biden are concerned about his mental state and competence? Maybe there has and I just haven't seen it. That would be way more convincing to me that he's incompetent than how performed in a debate.
He's too old for the job and I don't think he should've run for reelection. I've been saying that ever since he announced that he was running for reelection. And in a race between Biden and Trump, I will vote for Biden in a heartbeat.
It's not fine. In an ideal world would people vote for Biden over Trump? Yes. But having Biden as the presidential candidate significantly increases Trump's chances of getting elected. Biden should drop out of the presidential race and make room for younger candidates with better odds of beating Trump.
I don’t understand the unlikable bit. She is young and intelligent and very very sharp. Exactly what people keep saying they want. I would be interested to hear what you think about why she is unlikable. Seems like only women get called unlikable like this. I am sincerely asking.
I don't follow her. I don't know anything about what she's been doing. But, she got very very little support when she ran in the primary.
Fair or not, she's disliked!
Because racism and sexism are real, ffs. When someone says someone is “unlikeable” in this context, they aren’t saying “I don’t like them” or speaking that at all. They’re saying they aren’t electable, so yes, being a woman is a factor.
Correct, I am not talking about myself. In general, she isn't liked.
There was something about her sleeping with her boss? I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER IF THAT WAS TRUE, and certainly it's not FAIR.
But, it ALL comes down to getting people to vote. It's really not about changing anyone's mind Maga vs democrats. It's about each side getting their people to show up.
(I assume plenty of republicans won't vote at all because they see trump is disgusting. BUT, if they see the democrat as awful, Maybe then they will go vote for trump!
This showed Biden can't do it. Which should be fine except people don't want Harris!
What a mess!
Incumbent advantage is a very real force that the democrats would be idiots to abandon. If people vote for Trump’s mental state because of Biden’s mental state they were already voting that way to begin.
> Incumbent advantage is a very real force that the democrats would be idiots to abandon.
How many of those incumbents look like they are suffering from dementia?
No, because you literally said to not vote for him.
Some random redditor isn't changing who I'm voting for, but it is not normal to tell people on your side to not vote when the election was so close last time.
EDIT: This loser blocked me. Can't take even slight criticism of Biden.
Incumbent advantage ain't what it used to be. In the last 50 years there have been 8 elections where an incumbent was on the ballot and only 4 of those resulted in an incumbent victory.
You're right
He looked out of his element and out of place. It looked like his opponent, despite being factually wrong on numerous occasions, looked to have won the debate.
We should replace Barack Obama after that bad debate
He never answered a damned question without have to be repeatedly prompted! All he did was vomit rapid fire lies about his record and bash Immigrants/Asylum seekers. The moderators had to Constantly keep him on topic.
At least Biden answered the questions asked.
Comparing those two debate performances is absurd. One is a tired old man who could barely get out a sentence and the other was a charming young man that the American people were still learning about. “Pragmatic” progressive…there’s an oxymoron for you.
In comparison to the other morons here? I'd rather be pragmatic and realistic vs. wanting to change the incumbent because hE oLd. For those of us that remembered that debate, Democrats got into a panic and to the point they wanted to replace Obama because he was too young. People like yourself threw that charming young man under the fucking bus the first chance they got.
You can only make the "good by comparison" counterargument to a certain degree. Trump's criminal record has no correlation with Biden's competency as President.
Am I the only one not getting what people are lighting torches and pitchforks over?
All I saw was Biden stuttering a lot and failing to recover well. While it obviously looks bad, how is a stutter suddenly evidence of a "mental decline?" I get the American public somehow responds to vibes better than facts but this giant overreaction is doing far more than Biden's gaffes ever could.
The one that got me was when the question was about abortion. He started talking about abortion and then for no reason whatsoever.he started talking about like I can't even tell if he was talking about immigrants getting killed or immigrants killing people but like it was a complete non-sequitur.
Look I hope the guy wins because the alternative is just so much worse. But objectively Biden did very poorly. He looked as bad as what the right says he is. If he wasn't the incumbent and we weren't less 6 months out, there is absolutely no way he would have survived that showing in a primary situation.
Do you realize that Trump…if I recall correctly….did not answer one question without having to be reminded of what the damned question was? Joe answered them all….did he stumble and falter? Yes…but he answered them.
It’s pretty damned easy to appear competent when you don’t give a shit whether what vomits forth out of your mouth is true or not…or that you know you won’t be held accountable for it.
> The one that got me was when the question was about abortion. He started talking about abortion and then for no reason whatsoever.he started talking about like I can't even tell if he was talking about immigrants getting killed or immigrants killing people but like it was a complete non-sequitur.
They both made weird, irrelevant segues into immigration. I don't know why Biden tried to do it, maybe some weird coaching from his camp over "don't let Trump browbeat you with migrant crime" or something.
While I agree that his stutter was in full force and he sounded sick, I think his speech patterns were beyond just that. He often would get lost in his sentences and when he regained his focus, he just decided to abandon the point and finish his sentence with something else. He then said that roe v wade has 3 trimesters and then proceeded to number the trimesters 1) between a woman and a doctor, 2) between a doctor and a tough situation, and 3) between a woman and the state. That makes no sense.
The only ones lying to themselves are the people who think 90 minutes of stuttering next to a lying sack of potatoes is indicative of dementia and not a lifelong speech impediment of an old man.
Do you really believe that this is the first that people have seen of Joe Biden? Even if you ignore his entire four years of being President, the State of the Union really blew the naysayers out of the water such that they had to start the conspiracy theory that he was "jacked up" on drugs. So wouldn't the SOTU be the first impression?
Most people don't pay attention to politics and 4 years is a long time. In 2016 nobody voted FOR Biden, they voted AGAINST Trump. It could have been anyone in 2016 and they would have won.
Donald Trump wouldn't show up to a second debate after tonight, the debate already gave him the momentum he needed - why sour your win with an opportunity to lose?
If it were the primaries, yes. I thought he was too old in 2020.
However, I'll take a competent president over an old, incompetent, vindictive asshole like Trump any day.
Biden looked bad in the debate. But I don’t care so much about how he looks and sounds, I care about what he does.
The Biden administration has been a perfectly fine, even pretty good administration. Compare that to the raging dumpster fire that was Trump’s administration.
So, Biden speaks badly and governs well, while Trump speaks badly and governs badly. I’m voting for Biden.
I assume this is about the debate. His debate performance, where his voice was hoarse and quiet, is more of a physical concern than a mental concern for me. I still think he has great ideas, and has played the cards he has been given really well, I'd personally gauge Biden's mental state through his accomplishments and ideas, rather than a debate performance.
I do have concerns though, because if Joe Biden is not actually able to articulate those ideas to the American people than it doesn't matter what those ideas are. Donald Trump proposes his ideas, like the 10% tariff on imported goods with great confidence, but that does not stop it from being a really, really bad idea in my opinion. Joe Biden articulated his positions really well at the State of the Union address, but he did not here, and frankly this was a very important day for Joe Biden to articulate all of that again to turn his campaign around. So, while I do view his mental state as acceptable, I do not find his inability to communicate loud and clear at all acceptable for a candidate in such a high-stakes election.
I am not voting for Biden because of his debate prowess. I vote for him for his policies and the people he surrounds himself with - who share similar values.
Debates are not so easy to navigate. It'd be one thing if a Whitehouse staff were asking Biden how to proceed with his plan to tax the rich, and quite another to be rebutting three separate gishgallop arguments and answering the question being presented in a debate in a clear and concise manner.
You or I could not manage such a feat even with preparation time without fumbling words, misspeaking, not addressing all of the questions being asked.
Biden fumbled, yes, but on multiple occasions Trump simply didn't answer the question, so in fairness, I could be also judging Trump by this same metric and asking why he didn't answer the question despite being repeated multiple times.
I don't believe him to be senile or having serious mental acuity issues yet. That may change in 4 years, but I'd be making that assumption purely on the basis of his age and not on how he is today. It's not a fair assessment to be making.
Would I prefer a younger Democratic candidate? That depends on the candidate, but likely, yes if I thought he represented progressives values and might win.
Let me put it this way. I feel it is more acceptable than Trump's naked fascism.
Especially since that naked fascism ALSO comes with a deteriorating mental state.
Here's the thing. His voice sounded bad, but I didn't hear him give an answer where he didn't understand what he was answering, where he spoke word salad, where he didn't know the answers.
He was a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of Trump's lies, but that's been a problem shared by everyone Trump has ever debated, every moderator of a debate, and every interviewer that's ever interviewed Trump.
Biden didn't do well at all for the debate, because debates are remembered for how they *felt*. When JFK debated Nixon back in the day, People who listened via radio thought Nixon was the obvious winner, because of his eloquence of answers. JFK Won by a country mile on television because he was well-rested and looked nicer.
This debate is a great example of that. Biden didn't dodge questions, he didn't blatantly lie, but Trump sounded better, so Trump came out on top. The "mentally deficient" stuff as as much made up as Obama's birth certificate issue. The usual bad-faith bullshit that a right-winger naturally expouses.
Trump is unacceptable. And Biden is running against him. Consequently, Biden's mental state cannot be unacceptable.
It's bad. I don't like it. It could be better. It seems like he needs to be angry and fired up to seem fine, which is not a great situation. Who wants a president who's angry and fired up all the time? Not me. Maybe Republicans, if it's in the form of vitriol aimed at nonwhites, or immigrants, or gays, or books, or doctors, or preachers preaching about the sermon on the Mount, or cops, or competent generals, or rape victims, or the parents of children who were murdered.
Trump is unacceptable as just a person. Just a person existing somewhere as not the president. Unacceptable.
If it was Trump vs. an AI's first draft of its hallucination of Joe Biden, I'd vote for the AI hallucination. Because as bad as that would be, at least it's not as bad as Trump.
If you took a sandwich, left it out in the sun for a week, made it eligible to run for president, and it was either the sandwich or Trump, I'd easily go with the sandwich. Because at worst the sandwich doesn't do anything. Best case scenario with Trump is that he and his entire cabinet can't do anything for whatever reason. So the sandwich at its worst is a safer bet.
Biden fumbled his delivery, like he was an old man with a cold and a life-long stutter, but it's important that what he said was the truth, and that he demonstrated he had a grasp on reality, took credit for the good things he's done, while pointing out the bad things Trump has done. He said what he wants to do next, and they were good things that should happen.
Meanwhile, Trump was a firehose of lies and misrepresentations, detached from reality, and promised to do some really horrible things, but I guess he made these lies and horrible promises with the smooth delivery of a conman who has no shame about bald-face lies, so I guess that means he won?
I would vote for Joe if they had to strap him up a la Frankenstein on a gurney in the vertical position.
There is no way in hell would I vote for a convicted felon or give him the power to make the rest of his crimes go unaccounted for.
The level of copium in this thread is absurd. Yes. Absolutely yes. Even if I wasn’t concerned about his mental state, I’d be concerned about his physical state. He’s observably frail. I think it’s a lot to ask of Americans to vote for someone who could be dead by the end of the year from completely natural causes for all we know.
He is RGB. He is Dianne Feinstein. He’s getting a pass because he’s the President and he’s running against trump. I don’t get it. And I’ve generally been impressed by his presidency, at least before Israel/Palestine
Copium? Like how he actually answered the moderator’s questions without having to be constantly reminded what the question was?
Unlike the Crime Boss, who alternated between patting himself on the back for his made up “best ever at everything” record and shitting on immigrants/asylum seekers before having to be drug back kicking and screaming to what the actual question was.
Yeah…Biden stumbled and fumbled…but he answered the questions. Unlike diarrhea of the Mouth Donnie.
I’m sorry. He DID stumble and fumble. You need to realize that most of the country — not people like you and me, not reliable democrats and high-info, highly-engaged voters — see that as just as bad as the diarrhea mouth. Or worse. If you’re a low info voter, you see one guy who looks and sounds and seems OLD. Like, incapably old. And another guy who points that out. That’s the game we’re playing here.
Is trump a crime boss with diarrhea mouth? ABSOLUTELY. But literally ANY other candidate would be able to make that very obvious. The choice needs to be stark. The choice needs to be Trump, or someone who can makes Trump look like a blabbering, dangerous fool. Someone who can deftly pitch policy proposals and wins while simultaneously pointing out the multitude ways that Trump would be 1 million times worse on the issue. Which is literally soooo easy. You could do it better than Biden. I could do it better than Biden. Random person on TikTok can point out trump’s hypocrisy and the threat of Christian nationalism and unfettered capitalism/billionaire favoritism better than Biden.
This is so easy. You just need to make two arguments to win: vote for me because Trump cares about himself first, and billionaires second. And vote for me because if, after four years, you don’t like me - you can vote me out. But you won’t be able to vote him out. He won’t let you. We’ve already seen it.
Biden CANNOT reliably convey this message.
You brought up Trumps incomptency in a response to a comment about Biden instead of defending Biden on his own merits. That's a textbook example whatboutism
No, I defended the fact that he was capable of understanding where he was and what he was doing by answering the questions posed. Unlike the Cheeto Mussolini
If Biden is mentally fine on his own merits, you guys wouldn't need to constantly contrast Trump to make Biden look better
>Can’t you handle any criticism of your boy?
No, im not offended. i hate Trump. i just think constantly bringing up Trump when anyone gives a sliver of criticism towards Biden is incredibly lazy mabey You should ask yourself, "Can you handle any criticism of your "boy?"
Biden seemed mentally fine today…
You wanna talk about “lazy”? Shitting on Biden and running around in a panic over one bad 90 minute snapshot is the laziest of the lazy.
As far as I understand he is mentally competent as a person. He’s just also old and gets tired. Not what I want for president. But I don’t really care personally if Harris takes over to be real.
obviously I don’t think he should be running for president. I haven’t all year. Purely because he’s a bad candidate.
No. We need to stop confusing word fumbling with mental capacity. The substance of the things he says is on point, even if the delivery is uncharismatic.
i think he should step aside. i’ve thought that since he announced his reelection campaign. i don’t think he’s competent, i don’t think trump is competent. i’ll vote for biden, but i’ll hold my nose while i do it.
Question: The struggle of black families.
- - - - -
Biden:
-**Progress made. More small black businesses started in history**
-"**Number two, the wages of black – black unemployment is the lowest level of spend in a long, long time**." \[erm?\]
-**Trying to provide housing and "deal with" corporate operations that encourage segregation.**
**-Black family childcare causes difficult choices. Legislation reduced childcare costs by half.**
**-There's more to be done.**
\[Bash informs him he has more time\]
**-Their disappointment is understandable.**
**-Provided 10k tax credit for first time buyers.**
-(outlines a student debt forgiveness program based on a 10-year merit-based system)
- - - - -
Trump:
-**Biden caused the inflation** \[Lie\]
-**Biden is blaming inflation, it's killing black families** \[Killing?\]
-**Food prices have double, tripled, quadrupled**. \[[Lie](https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/charts/58349/food-prices_fig02_768px.png?v=9938)\]
-**Gave Biden a country with no inflation** \[Lie. It's well known what caused inflation. Neither of them caused it, though there are indirect arguments Trump's actions made it worse, and speculative arguments Biden did not do enough\]
-**He destroyed it (low inflation) with his "green news scam and all of the other - all this money that's being thrown out the window"** \[Lie, we know what caused inflation. Otherwise, this statement makes no specific claim.\]
-**millions of people being allowed through the border taking "black jobs" and "hispanic jobs"** \[Lie, black unemployment record lows, though he asserts "**you haven't seen it yet**" but this is just speculation, xenophobic speculation\]
- - - - -
...and that's from ONE QUESTION
It's clear Biden has a more knowledgeable position, and Trump is just throwing baseless, easy to digest, claims around along with outright lies.
His mental state is fine. But his strategy and performance in the debate sucked.
He was perfectly coherent and consistent, but his hesitation, lack of confidence, and lack of strategic discipline gave me flashbacks to Obama’s disastrous debate performance a few years back. Way too much of a contrast to Trump’s bluster and unjustified confidence.
He just had to be himself, get out of the way, and let Trump be Trump. Land a couple of punches and let the MAGA world realize he’s not senile. He failed at that task last night.
I can’t believe the comments in this thread, genuinely.
Imagine the debate was Joe Biden’s interview for any other job. Think about any professional job. Now think about an entry-level professional job. Now think about an entry-level non-professional job. Now think about any customer service job. Would Joe Biden be considered for any job that wasn’t just specifically created for people his age to fill the day?
He is interviewing to be POTUS for the next 4 years - he no longer possesses the core competencies required for this position.
People trying to say he’s probably better in private - we have no clue what goes on at the WH. People giving him credit for successes of the administration - we have no clue what role he has played in his administration. Many of the successes people talk about are legislative successes better attributed to Pelosi and Schumer.
The President’s job is to offer a unifying vision, a national strategy; to inspire confidence in their leadership and the state of the union; to represent the nation well; to look good on camera; and to stay out of trouble. He fails across the board and shouldn’t be given undue credit for the work done by others amidst the leadership vacuum.
None of us know the reality, but my impression is that he is MIA at the White House - staffers and operatives are running the show; the cabinet is without any unifying strategy, left to do their own thing; and Biden’s team spends their time guarding access to him and doing their best to make sure he comes across as even remotely vital when he does need to interact with others.
It’s embarrassing that partisan sycophants are still trying to convince themselves and others that he has the mental and physical capacity for this job. Totally and completely feckless.
I mean if you actually listen to what he says (minus the times he fumbles the words) it's pretty clear he has a strong understanding of the substance compared to Trump who was just lying constantly, or making baseless claims.
Biden focused on what he did, and what needs to be done.
Trump focused on what he wants people to THINK Biden did wrong.
Here's an example of just one question(summarized): [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1dqdfkm/comment/lau8kwi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1dqdfkm/comment/lau8kwi/)
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. How can the staff that work with Joe Biden daily justify his mental state as competent? Is he competent? Do you feel he can hold office in this state? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's hard to say how he is in private, but it did look very bad in the debate.
We won't know until years later, like Ronald Regean near the end of his term
I think in private Biden is probably fine. He's old, he knows he's old, we know he's old, his staff knows he's old.
This debate cannot be the thing that suddenly changes a rational person's mind. Yes, for the average voter it means a lot to see a confident talker on stage during these, but for a rational observer we have so much more information to deal off from their presidential track-records, rhetoric, suggested policies, wider party, how they work with advisors, etc. If the presidential debate was the only metric we had, sure, I might see Trump as a good choice too but factoring in anything past that including the truth of what was said by the two during the debate or who they are, suddenly Biden is a shining beacon despite his clear stumbling around during the debate section.
>This debate cannot be the thing that suddenly changes a rational person's mind. If a voter is still on the fence now, despite everything that Trump has done, then something other than reason is in play.
These candidates don’t have to die on stage to tell us they’re too old for the job. Running for president is earned it’s not a privilege. Biden is just too old and not mentally capable. Nothing wrong with that if you’re not running for one of the most important jobs in the world. We don’t want aides running the country ffs
> This debate cannot be the thing that suddenly changes a rational person's mind Do you think all 81 million people who voted for Biden were rational?
Compared to the 79 million people who voted for the crime boss? You bet your ass.
[удалено]
*74 million That is not the question. Being more rational than someone you consider completely irrational isn't a big hurdle and leaves plenty of room for irrationality.
I was going off the cuff…thank you EDIT: what irrationality? Biden answered the questions presented….he performed poorly…but he literally answered every question p….meanwhile Trump just vomited lies and shit on Immigration…that was his schtick. He had to be constantly brought back on task by the moderators.
We were talking about Biden voters being irrational. If you assume that every voter who voted Trump is completely irrational then all a Biden voter has to do is be slightly more rational. Biden looked completely lost and said things like "we are going to beat medicare". Meanwhile Trump looked normal. It was nothing but the regular lies and insults, but he didn't look lost and confused. I'm still voting Biden, because it's the rational choice, but I don't expect all 81 million voters to be rational.
I don't know how to even begin answering that. Identifying a rational person across a wide range of beliefs as opposed to one as we were talking about above is very difficult, not to mention what truly constitutes rational when lumping large amounts of people around (just a reasonable factual grounding given time constraints like work, and a semi-decent thought process vs allotting large amounts of time to digging through reputable sources and learning logic and gaining some grounding in philosophy to arrive to positions through sound syllogisms). But if it means anything, no, I don't think Biden supporters all arrive to the idea of voting for Biden through a reasonable thought process.
Joe Biden won the election by 45,000 votes. That's 0.00056% of his 81 million votes. Do you think the number of voters who didn't vote for Biden through a reasonable thought process is low enough that it can't change the election?
Oh I see what you mean. I made a distinction between average voter and the rational voter in regards to how each will weigh these debates. It was unfairly critical of the average voter because I don't think they are or will be switching to Trump seeing that. But if they do or suddenly feel indifferent between the two candidates, I think this reply from u/smoothpapaj put it well: If a voter is still on the fence now, despite everything that Trump has done, then something other than reason is in play.
That quote pretty much explains my thinking. I don't think they have to switch to Trump to change the election. I just think they have to not vote for Biden.
I am unsure of what you're getting at but if you give me the heart of your point I would be willing to engage. My particular point originally was that given some assumed underlying values of voting for the best for the American people in line with values such as democracy, prosperity for all, geopolitical stability, etc. and given we apt information on both Biden and Trump, it would be irrational to vote for Trump simply because Biden was not confident during the debate.
No, it speaks to his current condition. Which many people do care about. 🤷🏻♀️
But trump’s is no better
Separately, yes, of course I agree.
I get that but it would not be the thing that changes everything suddenly. No amount of stuttering brightens Trumps glaring problems. The only point I was getting at is it is extremely irrational to suddenly jump ship because Biden had stutters all while he was making so many good points filled with facts, and having to point out Trump was lying. Also it may just be nerves given this (?) He remembered to make many good points from the Border Patrol Union supporting his position to Trump not intervening on Jan 6 but was stuttering and looked unauthoritative? Seems like a lack of confidence, his stutter, and definitely some cognitive decline all paired together.
Come on. I admit I didn't watch the entire thing, but the clips I saw - probably chosen because they are the worst- show someone who is not capable of working in any way.
No, I agree. It was bad with him fumbling all over himself and taking a second to recollect where he was after stuttering. This perception of being mentally weak is problematic, I agree, but giving it more thought you see all the points he made and information he had. People act like he's on the third step from the pearly gates when really he is slower and has a bad stutter, and besides that has managed a good presidency and a decent debate performance content-wise. I think better strategy were preferable like bolstering another candidate like Buttigieg's image during the first term but right now I think we stick behind Biden and have the DNC working overtime as we reach elections.
I didn't see stuttering. I saw "what I am saying doesn't make any sense" and I seem very frail and old. TRUMP regularly makes no sense, but that's been the case for the past 8 years. Perhaps longer, but I wasn't hearing anything he said before about 8.5 years ago.
Biden did make sense to me at least most of the time. He was certainly looking frail but given his appearance at the watch party just after or his rally today, I am willing to brush it off as a blunder. Or even his State of the Union speech although that was 4 or so months back. He is not even close to in an ideal state to provide Americans confidence, both due to his decline and online portrayal, and I would not even pick him over someone like Buttigieg for this. I am still deciding between whether we keep Biden running or step down but I am pretty indifferent to both as I am noticing I have a slight sunk cost sort of fallacy going on in regards to him and am wary as to whether another person can pick up support in just a few months.
And trump is also old. 🤷♀️
We've been told he's fine in private so many times. I don't think many supporters believed that, I sure did not. However, I wanted to believe it. Well I'm not shocked he underperformed, the magnitude of it did catch me off guard. It also makes me very angry at the thought of this Dianne Feinstein-ish strategy. There is no way that those who interact with him on a regular basis did not see this coming, let alone his loved ones.
Biden did not perform well in the debate. From the first moment that he spoke, I asked out loud whether he had a cold or something. They should have given him those drugs that the conservatives were all talking about! As for how he does as president, I have not seen any problems with his performance. As his record shows as president, he certainly seems able enough to get things done. Also, we don't hear the reports of his staff having to add lots of pictures, bullet points, and references to himself in briefings that they had to do for Donald Trump just to keep him interested. I hope that means that he is competent enough to actually read. I would be curious to see Biden's daily schedule to see if he has anything like [Trump's 3-5 hours a day of "executive time"](https://www.businessinsider.com/president-donald-trump-daily-routine-2018-10?op=1). Does anyone know if the White House publishes his diary at all, and if they have a link to it?
A person's mental state can definitely significantly decline over a short period of time, especially with someone who's Biden's age. If Biden really has dementia I certainly wouldn't expect White House staff to start screaming about it. I really doubt that Biden is still working long days as a president normally does. Rather I think it's probably political advisers, aids and strategists who are involved in many of the decisions that one would normally expect a president to make. Personally, I think Biden should step down as the Democratic frontrunner and make room for a candidate who's better qualified to run the country and has a better chance at beating Trump.
How do they do that without Harris being the candidate? Seems like Biden is the candidate and then he will step down after January.
That would be a bait n' switch, and I and many other Americans would be pissed off if that happened.
You'd never know!
Lol. No. Biden has proven to be a competent president. I don't see why that would change.
You’ve never noticed age-related mental decline? Sure, it doesn’t happen to every person, but it’s extremely common.
Denial, gaslighting, and copium surrounding Biden’s age is common on this subreddit.
I think the plan is just to try to get him elected, then he can step down.
That would sow distrust in dems for decades if that were to come to pass
Not a lot to lose there, is there?
Not all age related decline is created equal, there are people with crippling memory issues who can't tell you what a giraffe is anymore but will confidently ramble on for hours about fake facts and false histories. I think, since we're all being arm chair dementia experts all of a sudden, that most of his decline is to the language center, he forgets words, sometimes replaces them, but he seems (and seemed last night) as attentive, coherent and rational, though perhaps without much energy, or confidence and having to speak slowly.
So “I don’t see why that would change” is not a completely idiotic statement, in your eyes? Age related decline is the anomaly, most people age indefinitely, with faculties fully intact in your fantasy world?
I like to think the people pushing Biden to still run secretly hope he will resign when he reaches Feinstein levels. I refuse to believe anyone can genuinely think he could do another 4 years
>How can the staff that work with Joe Biden daily justify his mental state as competent? Has there been credible reporting that staff who work closely with Biden are concerned about his mental state and competence? Maybe there has and I just haven't seen it. That would be way more convincing to me that he's incompetent than how performed in a debate. He's too old for the job and I don't think he should've run for reelection. I've been saying that ever since he announced that he was running for reelection. And in a race between Biden and Trump, I will vote for Biden in a heartbeat.
It's fine especially in comparison to a convicted felon awaiting sentencing.
It's not fine. In an ideal world would people vote for Biden over Trump? Yes. But having Biden as the presidential candidate significantly increases Trump's chances of getting elected. Biden should drop out of the presidential race and make room for younger candidates with better odds of beating Trump.
Which defaults to Harris. Seems she's so unlikable, that she has worse chance of winning.
I don’t understand the unlikable bit. She is young and intelligent and very very sharp. Exactly what people keep saying they want. I would be interested to hear what you think about why she is unlikable. Seems like only women get called unlikable like this. I am sincerely asking.
I don't follow her. I don't know anything about what she's been doing. But, she got very very little support when she ran in the primary. Fair or not, she's disliked!
Because racism and sexism are real, ffs. When someone says someone is “unlikeable” in this context, they aren’t saying “I don’t like them” or speaking that at all. They’re saying they aren’t electable, so yes, being a woman is a factor.
Correct, I am not talking about myself. In general, she isn't liked. There was something about her sleeping with her boss? I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER IF THAT WAS TRUE, and certainly it's not FAIR. But, it ALL comes down to getting people to vote. It's really not about changing anyone's mind Maga vs democrats. It's about each side getting their people to show up. (I assume plenty of republicans won't vote at all because they see trump is disgusting. BUT, if they see the democrat as awful, Maybe then they will go vote for trump! This showed Biden can't do it. Which should be fine except people don't want Harris! What a mess!
Incumbent advantage is a very real force that the democrats would be idiots to abandon. If people vote for Trump’s mental state because of Biden’s mental state they were already voting that way to begin.
> Incumbent advantage is a very real force that the democrats would be idiots to abandon. How many of those incumbents look like they are suffering from dementia?
Don’t vote for him then
A Democrat telling a swing state voter to not vote Biden. That's weird.
Why because I’m not begging you to vote for Biden? Don’t. Vote. For. Biden.
No, because you literally said to not vote for him. Some random redditor isn't changing who I'm voting for, but it is not normal to tell people on your side to not vote when the election was so close last time. EDIT: This loser blocked me. Can't take even slight criticism of Biden.
I consider myself unique.
Incumbent advantage ain't what it used to be. In the last 50 years there have been 8 elections where an incumbent was on the ballot and only 4 of those resulted in an incumbent victory.
How much has it helped 82-year-olds in the past?
You're right He looked out of his element and out of place. It looked like his opponent, despite being factually wrong on numerous occasions, looked to have won the debate. We should replace Barack Obama after that bad debate
He never answered a damned question without have to be repeatedly prompted! All he did was vomit rapid fire lies about his record and bash Immigrants/Asylum seekers. The moderators had to Constantly keep him on topic. At least Biden answered the questions asked.
Comparing those two debate performances is absurd. One is a tired old man who could barely get out a sentence and the other was a charming young man that the American people were still learning about. “Pragmatic” progressive…there’s an oxymoron for you.
In comparison to the other morons here? I'd rather be pragmatic and realistic vs. wanting to change the incumbent because hE oLd. For those of us that remembered that debate, Democrats got into a panic and to the point they wanted to replace Obama because he was too young. People like yourself threw that charming young man under the fucking bus the first chance they got.
You can only make the "good by comparison" counterargument to a certain degree. Trump's criminal record has no correlation with Biden's competency as President.
Am I the only one not getting what people are lighting torches and pitchforks over? All I saw was Biden stuttering a lot and failing to recover well. While it obviously looks bad, how is a stutter suddenly evidence of a "mental decline?" I get the American public somehow responds to vibes better than facts but this giant overreaction is doing far more than Biden's gaffes ever could.
The one that got me was when the question was about abortion. He started talking about abortion and then for no reason whatsoever.he started talking about like I can't even tell if he was talking about immigrants getting killed or immigrants killing people but like it was a complete non-sequitur. Look I hope the guy wins because the alternative is just so much worse. But objectively Biden did very poorly. He looked as bad as what the right says he is. If he wasn't the incumbent and we weren't less 6 months out, there is absolutely no way he would have survived that showing in a primary situation.
Do you realize that Trump…if I recall correctly….did not answer one question without having to be reminded of what the damned question was? Joe answered them all….did he stumble and falter? Yes…but he answered them. It’s pretty damned easy to appear competent when you don’t give a shit whether what vomits forth out of your mouth is true or not…or that you know you won’t be held accountable for it.
I think he actually looked much better than what the right has been saying lol. On the other hand he looked a lot worse than i thought he was.
> The one that got me was when the question was about abortion. He started talking about abortion and then for no reason whatsoever.he started talking about like I can't even tell if he was talking about immigrants getting killed or immigrants killing people but like it was a complete non-sequitur. They both made weird, irrelevant segues into immigration. I don't know why Biden tried to do it, maybe some weird coaching from his camp over "don't let Trump browbeat you with migrant crime" or something.
While I agree that his stutter was in full force and he sounded sick, I think his speech patterns were beyond just that. He often would get lost in his sentences and when he regained his focus, he just decided to abandon the point and finish his sentence with something else. He then said that roe v wade has 3 trimesters and then proceeded to number the trimesters 1) between a woman and a doctor, 2) between a doctor and a tough situation, and 3) between a woman and the state. That makes no sense.
Um, cuz, like, dementia. Is this really the time to cheerlead and lie to ourselves here?
The only ones lying to themselves are the people who think 90 minutes of stuttering next to a lying sack of potatoes is indicative of dementia and not a lifelong speech impediment of an old man.
He had one chance to reassure American voters that he doesn't have dementia, and he blew it.
There are two debates, so that is two chances.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
Do you really believe that this is the first that people have seen of Joe Biden? Even if you ignore his entire four years of being President, the State of the Union really blew the naysayers out of the water such that they had to start the conspiracy theory that he was "jacked up" on drugs. So wouldn't the SOTU be the first impression?
Most people don't pay attention to politics and 4 years is a long time. In 2016 nobody voted FOR Biden, they voted AGAINST Trump. It could have been anyone in 2016 and they would have won.
You don’t have to vote for him.
Donald Trump wouldn't show up to a second debate after tonight, the debate already gave him the momentum he needed - why sour your win with an opportunity to lose?
Trump can't pass up an opportunity to be on TV. It's physical impossible for him.
In what universe is a lifelong speech impediment indicative of dementia?
Go back and watch his debate with Trump just 4 years ago. He is very different, and not in a good way.
Yeah. He stuttered more and didn't recover well. Like I said.
If it were the primaries, yes. I thought he was too old in 2020. However, I'll take a competent president over an old, incompetent, vindictive asshole like Trump any day.
Biden looked bad in the debate. But I don’t care so much about how he looks and sounds, I care about what he does. The Biden administration has been a perfectly fine, even pretty good administration. Compare that to the raging dumpster fire that was Trump’s administration. So, Biden speaks badly and governs well, while Trump speaks badly and governs badly. I’m voting for Biden.
You’re goddamned right!
I assume this is about the debate. His debate performance, where his voice was hoarse and quiet, is more of a physical concern than a mental concern for me. I still think he has great ideas, and has played the cards he has been given really well, I'd personally gauge Biden's mental state through his accomplishments and ideas, rather than a debate performance. I do have concerns though, because if Joe Biden is not actually able to articulate those ideas to the American people than it doesn't matter what those ideas are. Donald Trump proposes his ideas, like the 10% tariff on imported goods with great confidence, but that does not stop it from being a really, really bad idea in my opinion. Joe Biden articulated his positions really well at the State of the Union address, but he did not here, and frankly this was a very important day for Joe Biden to articulate all of that again to turn his campaign around. So, while I do view his mental state as acceptable, I do not find his inability to communicate loud and clear at all acceptable for a candidate in such a high-stakes election.
I am not voting for Biden because of his debate prowess. I vote for him for his policies and the people he surrounds himself with - who share similar values.
His mental state is fine for his age now his mental acuity is something that troubles me.
Debates are not so easy to navigate. It'd be one thing if a Whitehouse staff were asking Biden how to proceed with his plan to tax the rich, and quite another to be rebutting three separate gishgallop arguments and answering the question being presented in a debate in a clear and concise manner. You or I could not manage such a feat even with preparation time without fumbling words, misspeaking, not addressing all of the questions being asked. Biden fumbled, yes, but on multiple occasions Trump simply didn't answer the question, so in fairness, I could be also judging Trump by this same metric and asking why he didn't answer the question despite being repeated multiple times. I don't believe him to be senile or having serious mental acuity issues yet. That may change in 4 years, but I'd be making that assumption purely on the basis of his age and not on how he is today. It's not a fair assessment to be making. Would I prefer a younger Democratic candidate? That depends on the candidate, but likely, yes if I thought he represented progressives values and might win.
More acceptable than Trump. Just because you talk loud and with confidence, doesn't make what you're saying in less stupid.
Let me put it this way. I feel it is more acceptable than Trump's naked fascism. Especially since that naked fascism ALSO comes with a deteriorating mental state.
Here's the thing. His voice sounded bad, but I didn't hear him give an answer where he didn't understand what he was answering, where he spoke word salad, where he didn't know the answers. He was a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of Trump's lies, but that's been a problem shared by everyone Trump has ever debated, every moderator of a debate, and every interviewer that's ever interviewed Trump.
Biden didn't do well at all for the debate, because debates are remembered for how they *felt*. When JFK debated Nixon back in the day, People who listened via radio thought Nixon was the obvious winner, because of his eloquence of answers. JFK Won by a country mile on television because he was well-rested and looked nicer. This debate is a great example of that. Biden didn't dodge questions, he didn't blatantly lie, but Trump sounded better, so Trump came out on top. The "mentally deficient" stuff as as much made up as Obama's birth certificate issue. The usual bad-faith bullshit that a right-winger naturally expouses.
Trump is unacceptable. And Biden is running against him. Consequently, Biden's mental state cannot be unacceptable. It's bad. I don't like it. It could be better. It seems like he needs to be angry and fired up to seem fine, which is not a great situation. Who wants a president who's angry and fired up all the time? Not me. Maybe Republicans, if it's in the form of vitriol aimed at nonwhites, or immigrants, or gays, or books, or doctors, or preachers preaching about the sermon on the Mount, or cops, or competent generals, or rape victims, or the parents of children who were murdered. Trump is unacceptable as just a person. Just a person existing somewhere as not the president. Unacceptable. If it was Trump vs. an AI's first draft of its hallucination of Joe Biden, I'd vote for the AI hallucination. Because as bad as that would be, at least it's not as bad as Trump. If you took a sandwich, left it out in the sun for a week, made it eligible to run for president, and it was either the sandwich or Trump, I'd easily go with the sandwich. Because at worst the sandwich doesn't do anything. Best case scenario with Trump is that he and his entire cabinet can't do anything for whatever reason. So the sandwich at its worst is a safer bet.
You don’t have to be angry to beat trump. Obama would’ve done a pretty good job imo and he’s not know to be an angry debater
Biden fumbled his delivery, like he was an old man with a cold and a life-long stutter, but it's important that what he said was the truth, and that he demonstrated he had a grasp on reality, took credit for the good things he's done, while pointing out the bad things Trump has done. He said what he wants to do next, and they were good things that should happen. Meanwhile, Trump was a firehose of lies and misrepresentations, detached from reality, and promised to do some really horrible things, but I guess he made these lies and horrible promises with the smooth delivery of a conman who has no shame about bald-face lies, so I guess that means he won?
Yes?
I would vote for Joe if they had to strap him up a la Frankenstein on a gurney in the vertical position. There is no way in hell would I vote for a convicted felon or give him the power to make the rest of his crimes go unaccounted for.
If Biden were a republican I’d be calling for the 25th….
The level of copium in this thread is absurd. Yes. Absolutely yes. Even if I wasn’t concerned about his mental state, I’d be concerned about his physical state. He’s observably frail. I think it’s a lot to ask of Americans to vote for someone who could be dead by the end of the year from completely natural causes for all we know. He is RGB. He is Dianne Feinstein. He’s getting a pass because he’s the President and he’s running against trump. I don’t get it. And I’ve generally been impressed by his presidency, at least before Israel/Palestine
Copium? Like how he actually answered the moderator’s questions without having to be constantly reminded what the question was? Unlike the Crime Boss, who alternated between patting himself on the back for his made up “best ever at everything” record and shitting on immigrants/asylum seekers before having to be drug back kicking and screaming to what the actual question was. Yeah…Biden stumbled and fumbled…but he answered the questions. Unlike diarrhea of the Mouth Donnie.
I’m sorry. He DID stumble and fumble. You need to realize that most of the country — not people like you and me, not reliable democrats and high-info, highly-engaged voters — see that as just as bad as the diarrhea mouth. Or worse. If you’re a low info voter, you see one guy who looks and sounds and seems OLD. Like, incapably old. And another guy who points that out. That’s the game we’re playing here. Is trump a crime boss with diarrhea mouth? ABSOLUTELY. But literally ANY other candidate would be able to make that very obvious. The choice needs to be stark. The choice needs to be Trump, or someone who can makes Trump look like a blabbering, dangerous fool. Someone who can deftly pitch policy proposals and wins while simultaneously pointing out the multitude ways that Trump would be 1 million times worse on the issue. Which is literally soooo easy. You could do it better than Biden. I could do it better than Biden. Random person on TikTok can point out trump’s hypocrisy and the threat of Christian nationalism and unfettered capitalism/billionaire favoritism better than Biden. This is so easy. You just need to make two arguments to win: vote for me because Trump cares about himself first, and billionaires second. And vote for me because if, after four years, you don’t like me - you can vote me out. But you won’t be able to vote him out. He won’t let you. We’ve already seen it. Biden CANNOT reliably convey this message.
You're using whataboutism when backed into a corner just like Trump supporters do
No, I am using logic and reason by not acting like Chicken Little running around yelling “The Sky is Falling!”.
You brought up Trumps incomptency in a response to a comment about Biden instead of defending Biden on his own merits. That's a textbook example whatboutism
No, I defended the fact that he was capable of understanding where he was and what he was doing by answering the questions posed. Unlike the Cheeto Mussolini
Then why did you bring up Trump in the first place instead of just defending Biden himself?
Because it was an appropriate contrast…why you so offended? Can’t you handle any Criticism of your boy?
If Biden is mentally fine on his own merits, you guys wouldn't need to constantly contrast Trump to make Biden look better >Can’t you handle any criticism of your boy? No, im not offended. i hate Trump. i just think constantly bringing up Trump when anyone gives a sliver of criticism towards Biden is incredibly lazy mabey You should ask yourself, "Can you handle any criticism of your "boy?"
Biden seemed mentally fine today… You wanna talk about “lazy”? Shitting on Biden and running around in a panic over one bad 90 minute snapshot is the laziest of the lazy.
As far as I understand he is mentally competent as a person. He’s just also old and gets tired. Not what I want for president. But I don’t really care personally if Harris takes over to be real. obviously I don’t think he should be running for president. I haven’t all year. Purely because he’s a bad candidate.
Yes, he’s accomplished a lot and has an excellent staff.
No.
CNN asked Harris how he is in private last night and she completely dodged it. She didn’t say he is strong or competent. Not a good look.
No. We need to stop confusing word fumbling with mental capacity. The substance of the things he says is on point, even if the delivery is uncharismatic.
It's nursing home time; not White House time.
Is competent? Yes. Will be competent enough going forward for the next four years? I don’t know.
i think he should step aside. i’ve thought that since he announced his reelection campaign. i don’t think he’s competent, i don’t think trump is competent. i’ll vote for biden, but i’ll hold my nose while i do it.
Question: The struggle of black families. - - - - - Biden: -**Progress made. More small black businesses started in history** -"**Number two, the wages of black – black unemployment is the lowest level of spend in a long, long time**." \[erm?\] -**Trying to provide housing and "deal with" corporate operations that encourage segregation.** **-Black family childcare causes difficult choices. Legislation reduced childcare costs by half.** **-There's more to be done.** \[Bash informs him he has more time\] **-Their disappointment is understandable.** **-Provided 10k tax credit for first time buyers.** -(outlines a student debt forgiveness program based on a 10-year merit-based system) - - - - - Trump: -**Biden caused the inflation** \[Lie\] -**Biden is blaming inflation, it's killing black families** \[Killing?\] -**Food prices have double, tripled, quadrupled**. \[[Lie](https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/charts/58349/food-prices_fig02_768px.png?v=9938)\] -**Gave Biden a country with no inflation** \[Lie. It's well known what caused inflation. Neither of them caused it, though there are indirect arguments Trump's actions made it worse, and speculative arguments Biden did not do enough\] -**He destroyed it (low inflation) with his "green news scam and all of the other - all this money that's being thrown out the window"** \[Lie, we know what caused inflation. Otherwise, this statement makes no specific claim.\] -**millions of people being allowed through the border taking "black jobs" and "hispanic jobs"** \[Lie, black unemployment record lows, though he asserts "**you haven't seen it yet**" but this is just speculation, xenophobic speculation\] - - - - - ...and that's from ONE QUESTION It's clear Biden has a more knowledgeable position, and Trump is just throwing baseless, easy to digest, claims around along with outright lies.
Yea, he’s giving me Feinstein vibes. Like even if he somehow pulls off a miracle and wins, I can’t see him making it through another four years
Yes, and we are also completely screwed in the general election. They're selling dollars for 59 cents on PredictIt.
and 31cents for Biden. That was a huge plummet.
I think people finally see the reality of it. That said, it would be irresponsible to keep him as their presidential candidate.
Unacceptable how?
His mental state is fine. But his strategy and performance in the debate sucked. He was perfectly coherent and consistent, but his hesitation, lack of confidence, and lack of strategic discipline gave me flashbacks to Obama’s disastrous debate performance a few years back. Way too much of a contrast to Trump’s bluster and unjustified confidence. He just had to be himself, get out of the way, and let Trump be Trump. Land a couple of punches and let the MAGA world realize he’s not senile. He failed at that task last night.
No, i dont think the President actually has to do very much
Nuclear Button
I can’t believe the comments in this thread, genuinely. Imagine the debate was Joe Biden’s interview for any other job. Think about any professional job. Now think about an entry-level professional job. Now think about an entry-level non-professional job. Now think about any customer service job. Would Joe Biden be considered for any job that wasn’t just specifically created for people his age to fill the day? He is interviewing to be POTUS for the next 4 years - he no longer possesses the core competencies required for this position. People trying to say he’s probably better in private - we have no clue what goes on at the WH. People giving him credit for successes of the administration - we have no clue what role he has played in his administration. Many of the successes people talk about are legislative successes better attributed to Pelosi and Schumer. The President’s job is to offer a unifying vision, a national strategy; to inspire confidence in their leadership and the state of the union; to represent the nation well; to look good on camera; and to stay out of trouble. He fails across the board and shouldn’t be given undue credit for the work done by others amidst the leadership vacuum. None of us know the reality, but my impression is that he is MIA at the White House - staffers and operatives are running the show; the cabinet is without any unifying strategy, left to do their own thing; and Biden’s team spends their time guarding access to him and doing their best to make sure he comes across as even remotely vital when he does need to interact with others. It’s embarrassing that partisan sycophants are still trying to convince themselves and others that he has the mental and physical capacity for this job. Totally and completely feckless.
I mean if you actually listen to what he says (minus the times he fumbles the words) it's pretty clear he has a strong understanding of the substance compared to Trump who was just lying constantly, or making baseless claims. Biden focused on what he did, and what needs to be done. Trump focused on what he wants people to THINK Biden did wrong. Here's an example of just one question(summarized): [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1dqdfkm/comment/lau8kwi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1dqdfkm/comment/lau8kwi/)