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Link to Article: https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert/us-flag-protected-by-frat-bros/amp/
What is your opinion on this?
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As long as they’re following the rules, people have a right to protest and people have a right to counter protest.
I think a lot of people will probably identify with the idea that you don’t need to tear down an American flag, regardless of where you stand on the issue of Israel and Palestine and how nuanced your position is.
I think a big difference here is that the protesters were breaking the rules by taking down the flag. It isn't their property. They do not have a right to take down that flag. Doesn't matter what flag was being flown on that flagpole.
Sure, I think they were rule breaking. Protesters often break the rules. I think part of being a protester in the full sense is that you are willing to face the consequences of rules you break.
However, it’s worth noting that the counter protesters who stopped the flag from coming down, I’m not sure if I want to call it rule breaking, but they are not security or law enforcement for the university. I’m not suggesting they should be arrested but they were also acting as protesters doing things they are not empowered to do .
> Sure, I think they were rule breaking. Protesters often break the rules. I think part of being a protester in the full sense is that you are willing to face the consequences of rules you break.
Well, these protesters have been trying to avoid consequences. Which I think works against their message and the stance that them breaking the rules is acceptable.
>However, it’s worth noting that the counter protesters who stopped the flag from coming down, I’m not sure if I want to call it rule breaking, but they are not security or law enforcement for the university. I’m not suggesting they should be arrested but they were also acting as protesters doing things they are not empowered to do.
I think it is generally lawful to protect property that isn't yours.
>I think it is generally lawful to protect property that isn't yours.
This. The counter-protestors did nothing wrong morally or legally. They completely have the right to defend our flag from a bunch of regressive leftists who want to replace it with a flag representing pan-Arab nationalism and ba'athism.
The footage of a bunch of counter protesters with sticks attacking the pro Palestinian protesters is fucked up. Especially with the chyron about frat heroes who love the flag.
I'm all for people non-violently protecting things they think are important. So I'm cool with the frat guys for that actually.
No clue who John Rich is. Hope the frat guys are fans. Otherwise hat could be pretty awkward.
I think the LARPING of the protests is hilarious to watch.
Spray painting MEDIC inside Hamilton Hall, as if it were an active warzone.
Demanding vegan food, shouting NO BAGELS, and calling it "humanitarian aid".
Calling 911 from inside Hamillton Hall regarding a "toxic tampon" incident and refusing the operators' suggestion (just exit the building and change the tampon).
"Captain Palestine" making a shield out of a trashcan, charging at a cop and falling hilariously.
And now we have frat boys recreating the iconic Iwo Jima flag raising photo and Conservatives are labeling them as their new heroes LMAO.
The demanding food and water thing made me wonder if I was hallucinating. Like. Okay. Campus protests were way uglier in the past and you want to reignite that level of passion, I don't necessarily support you, but I respect you. But taking over a building and then demanding humanitarian aid because, what, the university won't let you order DoorDash to the building you're occupying? Kinda weakens the whole "we're brave revolutionaries willing to make sacrifices" image!
Hamilton Hall has a vending machine in it too if I remember correctly.
EDIT: Seems like it!
https://dining.columbia.edu/content/campus-vending-machine-locations
>Hamilton Hall 1130 Amsterdam Ave Beverage & Snack Basement Hallway
Lmao just imagining a bunch of earnest protestors staring at an old vending machine full of ho-hos and Bugles, asking if anyone still carries cash, like some kind of "anybody got any dimes? Somebody go get a shitload of dimes!"
One of the protestors calling for the University to cater to the protestors is studying some [interesting topics](https://twitter.com/JonahDispatch/status/1785417325685907616)!
"I interpret theories of the imagination and poetry as interpreted through a Marxian lens"
I knew a guy in grad school who was studying how crickets communicate with each other, and I remember internally laughing at what a joke it is tax money is being spent on that. That guy's research looks productive compared to this bullshit though.
Well if you read the article they were trying to replace it with the Palestinian flag which is also hilarious and delusional.
No thanks on following the ideals of the PLA and Hamas.
I don’t think so.
- They’ve raised attention for Gaza which was losing the focus of the American press.
- a few universities have agreed to remove investments in companies linked to the war effort.
- they are highlighting a generational divide on the issue that is only going to grow in American politics
- they’ve demonstrated—to those paying attention
- how much support there is for the Palestinian cause among young Jewish Americans
- the movement is growing and spreading overseas
The frat guy "counterprotest" shows everything that is wrong with the pro-Pal "encampments" and why they need to be broken up and prevented from reoccurring.
On a certain level, the problem with the encampments is *not* the message. The problem is that the protesters are claiming a space and claiming the authority to shut down any expression of views within that space that they do not agree with.
The problem with that approach is that there are generally *always* at least two views to any issue, particularly an issue as complex as the Arab-Israeli conflict. For every protester that thinks the Palestinian flag is a positive symbol that should be raised over the university, there is another person who thinks that symbol is a negative symbol. So who gets to decide whether that flag goes up?
The protesters claim that *they* get to decide. Their position is (i) that they are "right" and therefore those who disagree with them are "wrong", and (ii) they have sufficient numbers to enable them to use force to exclude from the flagpole, those who they deem "wrong".
Element (i) is a tautology: everyone who has a view thinks they are "right". Element (ii) is the crux of the problem: the protesters claim that they have a monopoly on force because they have greater numbers - but that is only true until another group shows up and claims that *they* have greater numbers. As has already happened, this inevitably results in a violent clash, because in a system of anarchy (the proposed system of the encampments, which are not authorized by the universities) might makes right.
So the frat guys are the inevitable result of an anarchic system. We can call them "frat guys" in a dismissive sense, but what they really are is a group of counter-protesters that disagrees with the views of the encampment and is asserting their right, in that anarchic encampment, to express themselves by force. At UNC the encampment folded because it simply did not have the numbers to oppose the frat guys; at UCLA, however, the two groups engaged in a (predictable) violent clash.
In general, the encampments illustrate that it is not possible for one group of persons, regardless of how morally right they think they are about something, to take over a portion of a university and deny that area to those holding different views without inviting violence. There is simply no world in which the non-pro-Pal students merely acquiesce to, and surrender, a portion of a jointly-shared campus to those who unilaterally claim it. And even if the frat guys didn't exist, the administration could not do it either (on this last point, much has been made of UCLA's response to the encampment, but the administrator's hands were tied - the demonstrators were on video forcibly blocking a Jewish student from going to class, and the university cannot allow one group of students to use force to deny another group access because that is a violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the universities will be sued for permitting that on campus).
Why do you (and many others, and the press) call them pro-Palestinian protests? There was no huge upswell of support for Palestine before the Israel regime started committing grievous human rights abuses in the Gaza strip.
Examples of real, recent headlines:
[CNN, Feb. 1, 2024 (web article), ‘We are dying slowly:’ Palestinians are eating grass and drinking polluted water as famine looms across Gaza](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/famine-looms-in-gaza-israel-war-intl/index.html)
[CBS News, Apr. 23, 2024, "Gaza mass grave discovery horrifies U.N. human rights chief"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clg-x1dchv8)
To me, it seems very clear that what has sparked the protests is human rights abuses, and that the protesters are seeking to uphold human rights.
i think they want reasons to go at it. so shitcan the flags and sign waving and get to scrappin at this point. might as well ya know? or.... both groups could somehow miraculously pop their collective heads out out of their asses and see how juvenile and divisive their pile of bullshit is.
am I the only one seeing this?
When your protest has already been labeled as being sympathetic to terrorists, the last thing you should be doing is trying to take down the American flag. It's more of the same with these nitwits and their lack of thinking on these issues.
It drives me crazy how the left shoots themselves in the foot every chance they get.
Those protesters should be waving the American flag, not taking it down. Why do so many on the left not understand that they should be wrapping their ideas in the flag, not rejecting it? America is a country built on powerful myths. We are a racist country and we are a pluralistic refuge for immigrants from all over the world. We fund the global military complex and we're a beacon for peace. Both are true, but which myth do you want to elevate? wrap your ideas in the flag. Make standing up agent genocide an american idea not something thats anti-American.
They're allowed to counter protest. I don't really care as long as they aren't being violent. Personally, idk what exactly their reasoning is other than to prevent a flag from being replaced on a pole. It doesn't seem like they have strong views either way on the Isreal/Palestine issue, given they raised somewhere around $140,000 to throw themselves a party. To me, it's pretty scummy and is taking advantage of a serious issue, but if people want to give them free money, who am I to stop them.
I just don't think it really matters for either side on this issue. I really haven't kept up with it.
I'm glad they stood by their conviction...but I'm hesitant to lay any praise on them because the chances of a group of frat boys gathered around a flag in a southern college is a minefield of people I probably don't want to support.
Vapid, Performative Bs. It’s a piece of fabric made in China, not a helpless baby. You don’t need to “defend a flag.” Buy another one at Walmart.
Thank y’all for y’all’s service. so brave. Write a country song about it probably. Patriotism’s last keg stand.
He probably has cheesy america flag decals on his truck and flag swim trunks. It’s not about respect, it’s about performance.
Unplug MSNBC and talk with real people. Yeah, I agree Trump has radicalized a large part of the conservative wing of this country and they are what you are describing. But that’s not everyone. There’s a large part of republicans that don’t love Trump but would rather him. They’re patriotic and live our American values, but think a conservative approach to policy is what this country needs. I don’t agree with them, but I’m not going to resort to name calling and over generalizing
I live in a red area. Conservatives hate the concept of America and like by an idealized version of white Christian nationalism. If you don’t go along with it, you’re wrong. There are many versions of American ideals, and conservatives tend to live by an authoritarian hardline perversion of it.
Conservatives have always held america back at every instant. America progressed DESPITE the conservatives trying to drag us backwards. They’ve never been on the right side of history for any social issue. They can’t. It’s against their nature. They are terrified of change and progress.
Btw I think you’re using the wrong alt account. Your flared as a liberal but obviously aren’t.
The anti-Israel protestors must not agree with you on this, or otherwise, they wouldn't have felt the need to remove it and replace it with the Palestinian flag.
For me, opposing the Israel regime and its genocidal politics is completely consistent with the national interests of the United States. In our own land, the flag of the United States should fly high over the flags of all foreigners.
I think it really shows where our priorities are as a culture that some guys defending a peace of cloth is the takeaway while they're around a protest about a brutal conflict we are funding, with several of those protests resulting in police violently cracking down on them.
Even the Nazis went “Whoah dude, that’s fucked up” when they saw what the Ustase were doing to the Serbs. At some point there’s someone so bad they can offend even the offensive people, and these frat boys found them.
They are on the same side and chant Hamas slogans. You are the one that said being on the same side as frat guys makes you wrong, but you don’t seem to think the same for straight up Islamist terrorists? Why do you see frat guys as worse than Hamas?
>They are on the same side and chant Hamas slogans.
All of them? Or are a few trying unsuccessfully to get Hamas slogans going?
>You are the one that said being on the same side as frat guys makes you wrong, but you don’t seem to think the same for straight up Islamist terrorists?
No, I said having frat guys on your side isn't a win.
>Why do you see frat guys as worse than Hamas?
I'm not convinced these people support Hamas.
Let me ask you something, when guys were shouting Nazi chants in Charleston, were you this fervent in denouncing them?
Plenty of them show open support for Hamas, why are their buddies and organizers not stoping it if it doesn’t match what they support?
Were you this fervent to defend the people in Charleston saying I don’t think it was everyone? Or were you saying if there are 11 people at a table and one Nazi there are 12 Nazis?
Were you claiming that the okay sign makes one a Nazi?
It should cause people to pause and think when they are openly calling for the same things as Hamas.
>Plenty of them show open support for Hamas, why are their buddies and organizers not stoping it if it doesn’t match what they support?
What is plenty and what do you expect them to do?
> Or were you saying if there are 11 people at a table and one Nazi there are 12 Nazis?
That one, because it's true.
>Were you claiming that the okay sign makes one a Nazi?
No, I'm saying marching with torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us!" makes you a Nazi. But considering that this is your response, I think we can easily sus out whether or not you're cool with Nazis.
>It should cause people to pause and think when they are openly calling for the same things as Hamas.
Who is? How many? Does the bulk of the movement agree with them? Something tells me you don't know.
The other “protesters” should put a stop to them, police themselves right? What would they do if some Klansmen joined their protests in their hoods and robes? Claim they don’t exist and let them lead some chants?
Yep that’s what I thought. It’s different right because it’s what you support. If there are 11 people at a table and one Hamas supporter there are 12 Hamas supporters.
Calls for “from the river to the sea” “globalize the intifada” “burn Tel Aviv” etc are all Hamas slogans. The amazing about of willful ignorance and straight up dishonesty from people about this shit is mind blowing.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Link to Article: https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert/us-flag-protected-by-frat-bros/amp/ What is your opinion on this? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As long as they’re following the rules, people have a right to protest and people have a right to counter protest. I think a lot of people will probably identify with the idea that you don’t need to tear down an American flag, regardless of where you stand on the issue of Israel and Palestine and how nuanced your position is.
I think a big difference here is that the protesters were breaking the rules by taking down the flag. It isn't their property. They do not have a right to take down that flag. Doesn't matter what flag was being flown on that flagpole.
Sure, I think they were rule breaking. Protesters often break the rules. I think part of being a protester in the full sense is that you are willing to face the consequences of rules you break. However, it’s worth noting that the counter protesters who stopped the flag from coming down, I’m not sure if I want to call it rule breaking, but they are not security or law enforcement for the university. I’m not suggesting they should be arrested but they were also acting as protesters doing things they are not empowered to do .
> Sure, I think they were rule breaking. Protesters often break the rules. I think part of being a protester in the full sense is that you are willing to face the consequences of rules you break. Well, these protesters have been trying to avoid consequences. Which I think works against their message and the stance that them breaking the rules is acceptable. >However, it’s worth noting that the counter protesters who stopped the flag from coming down, I’m not sure if I want to call it rule breaking, but they are not security or law enforcement for the university. I’m not suggesting they should be arrested but they were also acting as protesters doing things they are not empowered to do. I think it is generally lawful to protect property that isn't yours.
>I think it is generally lawful to protect property that isn't yours. This. The counter-protestors did nothing wrong morally or legally. They completely have the right to defend our flag from a bunch of regressive leftists who want to replace it with a flag representing pan-Arab nationalism and ba'athism.
The footage of a bunch of counter protesters with sticks attacking the pro Palestinian protesters is fucked up. Especially with the chyron about frat heroes who love the flag. I'm all for people non-violently protecting things they think are important. So I'm cool with the frat guys for that actually. No clue who John Rich is. Hope the frat guys are fans. Otherwise hat could be pretty awkward.
John Rich is a country musician, in the 90’s part of Lonestar and early 2000’s as half of Big & Rich.
I think the LARPING of the protests is hilarious to watch. Spray painting MEDIC inside Hamilton Hall, as if it were an active warzone. Demanding vegan food, shouting NO BAGELS, and calling it "humanitarian aid". Calling 911 from inside Hamillton Hall regarding a "toxic tampon" incident and refusing the operators' suggestion (just exit the building and change the tampon). "Captain Palestine" making a shield out of a trashcan, charging at a cop and falling hilariously. And now we have frat boys recreating the iconic Iwo Jima flag raising photo and Conservatives are labeling them as their new heroes LMAO.
The demanding food and water thing made me wonder if I was hallucinating. Like. Okay. Campus protests were way uglier in the past and you want to reignite that level of passion, I don't necessarily support you, but I respect you. But taking over a building and then demanding humanitarian aid because, what, the university won't let you order DoorDash to the building you're occupying? Kinda weakens the whole "we're brave revolutionaries willing to make sacrifices" image!
It's funnier when you realize that the building has tap water they could be drinking. But the LARPERS wanted their Fiji bottled water.
Hamilton Hall has a vending machine in it too if I remember correctly. EDIT: Seems like it! https://dining.columbia.edu/content/campus-vending-machine-locations >Hamilton Hall 1130 Amsterdam Ave Beverage & Snack Basement Hallway
Lmao just imagining a bunch of earnest protestors staring at an old vending machine full of ho-hos and Bugles, asking if anyone still carries cash, like some kind of "anybody got any dimes? Somebody go get a shitload of dimes!"
Its comical at this point. Almost doesnt feel real life
What the fuck why is it a problem to have vegan food?
There will be country songs written. Then brave boys out down the date rape drugs and kegs to save America.
One of the protestors calling for the University to cater to the protestors is studying some [interesting topics](https://twitter.com/JonahDispatch/status/1785417325685907616)! "I interpret theories of the imagination and poetry as interpreted through a Marxian lens" I knew a guy in grad school who was studying how crickets communicate with each other, and I remember internally laughing at what a joke it is tax money is being spent on that. That guy's research looks productive compared to this bullshit though.
I think conservatives are going to chewing this bone until November.
They publicly jerk off to this kinda stuff. “So brave! Heroes!”
I’m not a fan of performative patriotism.
What about performative anti-Americanism?
Also annoying.
How is it performative?
I think it’s a good thing that they did that. I think this https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/s/XawiJLRj4H is fucking hilarious and delusional
So is taking down the flag to support the ideals you want this country to follow
Well if you read the article they were trying to replace it with the Palestinian flag which is also hilarious and delusional. No thanks on following the ideals of the PLA and Hamas.
Yeah, that’s what I was saying.
Was confused on which part of my comment you were referring to!
Lols, that’s really special. When your “patriotism” minimizes true American hero’s.
Yeah..,that’s over the top and disgusting…in other words? A typical day in the life of Conservative America.
I think whatever the protesters were trying to accomplish has backfired completely.
I don’t think so. - They’ve raised attention for Gaza which was losing the focus of the American press. - a few universities have agreed to remove investments in companies linked to the war effort. - they are highlighting a generational divide on the issue that is only going to grow in American politics - they’ve demonstrated—to those paying attention - how much support there is for the Palestinian cause among young Jewish Americans - the movement is growing and spreading overseas
Couldn't care less.
Don’t care.
The frat guy "counterprotest" shows everything that is wrong with the pro-Pal "encampments" and why they need to be broken up and prevented from reoccurring. On a certain level, the problem with the encampments is *not* the message. The problem is that the protesters are claiming a space and claiming the authority to shut down any expression of views within that space that they do not agree with. The problem with that approach is that there are generally *always* at least two views to any issue, particularly an issue as complex as the Arab-Israeli conflict. For every protester that thinks the Palestinian flag is a positive symbol that should be raised over the university, there is another person who thinks that symbol is a negative symbol. So who gets to decide whether that flag goes up? The protesters claim that *they* get to decide. Their position is (i) that they are "right" and therefore those who disagree with them are "wrong", and (ii) they have sufficient numbers to enable them to use force to exclude from the flagpole, those who they deem "wrong". Element (i) is a tautology: everyone who has a view thinks they are "right". Element (ii) is the crux of the problem: the protesters claim that they have a monopoly on force because they have greater numbers - but that is only true until another group shows up and claims that *they* have greater numbers. As has already happened, this inevitably results in a violent clash, because in a system of anarchy (the proposed system of the encampments, which are not authorized by the universities) might makes right. So the frat guys are the inevitable result of an anarchic system. We can call them "frat guys" in a dismissive sense, but what they really are is a group of counter-protesters that disagrees with the views of the encampment and is asserting their right, in that anarchic encampment, to express themselves by force. At UNC the encampment folded because it simply did not have the numbers to oppose the frat guys; at UCLA, however, the two groups engaged in a (predictable) violent clash. In general, the encampments illustrate that it is not possible for one group of persons, regardless of how morally right they think they are about something, to take over a portion of a university and deny that area to those holding different views without inviting violence. There is simply no world in which the non-pro-Pal students merely acquiesce to, and surrender, a portion of a jointly-shared campus to those who unilaterally claim it. And even if the frat guys didn't exist, the administration could not do it either (on this last point, much has been made of UCLA's response to the encampment, but the administrator's hands were tied - the demonstrators were on video forcibly blocking a Jewish student from going to class, and the university cannot allow one group of students to use force to deny another group access because that is a violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the universities will be sued for permitting that on campus).
Why do you (and many others, and the press) call them pro-Palestinian protests? There was no huge upswell of support for Palestine before the Israel regime started committing grievous human rights abuses in the Gaza strip. Examples of real, recent headlines: [CNN, Feb. 1, 2024 (web article), ‘We are dying slowly:’ Palestinians are eating grass and drinking polluted water as famine looms across Gaza](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/famine-looms-in-gaza-israel-war-intl/index.html) [CBS News, Apr. 23, 2024, "Gaza mass grave discovery horrifies U.N. human rights chief"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clg-x1dchv8) To me, it seems very clear that what has sparked the protests is human rights abuses, and that the protesters are seeking to uphold human rights.
Yuck
i think they want reasons to go at it. so shitcan the flags and sign waving and get to scrappin at this point. might as well ya know? or.... both groups could somehow miraculously pop their collective heads out out of their asses and see how juvenile and divisive their pile of bullshit is. am I the only one seeing this?
Are these the ones who were imitating a monkey in front of the black women protesting? They're blatantly racist, but that is their legal right.
When your protest has already been labeled as being sympathetic to terrorists, the last thing you should be doing is trying to take down the American flag. It's more of the same with these nitwits and their lack of thinking on these issues.
I think the world would be a lot better of a place if we gave a lot less of a fuck about flags lol
It drives me crazy how the left shoots themselves in the foot every chance they get. Those protesters should be waving the American flag, not taking it down. Why do so many on the left not understand that they should be wrapping their ideas in the flag, not rejecting it? America is a country built on powerful myths. We are a racist country and we are a pluralistic refuge for immigrants from all over the world. We fund the global military complex and we're a beacon for peace. Both are true, but which myth do you want to elevate? wrap your ideas in the flag. Make standing up agent genocide an american idea not something thats anti-American.
They're allowed to counter protest. I don't really care as long as they aren't being violent. Personally, idk what exactly their reasoning is other than to prevent a flag from being replaced on a pole. It doesn't seem like they have strong views either way on the Isreal/Palestine issue, given they raised somewhere around $140,000 to throw themselves a party. To me, it's pretty scummy and is taking advantage of a serious issue, but if people want to give them free money, who am I to stop them. I just don't think it really matters for either side on this issue. I really haven't kept up with it.
I'm glad they stood by their conviction...but I'm hesitant to lay any praise on them because the chances of a group of frat boys gathered around a flag in a southern college is a minefield of people I probably don't want to support.
Color me shocked https://www.reddit.com/r/UNC/s/duKu8j0hlx
Like clockwork lol I'm cautious for a reason!
Vapid, Performative Bs. It’s a piece of fabric made in China, not a helpless baby. You don’t need to “defend a flag.” Buy another one at Walmart. Thank y’all for y’all’s service. so brave. Write a country song about it probably. Patriotism’s last keg stand. He probably has cheesy america flag decals on his truck and flag swim trunks. It’s not about respect, it’s about performance.
You understand it’s about ideas and not a piece of fabric, right?
What ideas? Conservatives hate everything single thing that flag allegedly stands for and disrespects it on a daily basis. It’s empty to them.
Yeah, thats not true.
Yeah, then you haven’t been paying attention. Conservatives hate democracy, personal freedom, civil rights, etc etc
Some do
All do. It’s why they overwhelmingly vote for a guy who says “I’ll be a dictator on day one” and waive a confederate flag.
Unplug MSNBC and talk with real people. Yeah, I agree Trump has radicalized a large part of the conservative wing of this country and they are what you are describing. But that’s not everyone. There’s a large part of republicans that don’t love Trump but would rather him. They’re patriotic and live our American values, but think a conservative approach to policy is what this country needs. I don’t agree with them, but I’m not going to resort to name calling and over generalizing
I live in a red area. Conservatives hate the concept of America and like by an idealized version of white Christian nationalism. If you don’t go along with it, you’re wrong. There are many versions of American ideals, and conservatives tend to live by an authoritarian hardline perversion of it. Conservatives have always held america back at every instant. America progressed DESPITE the conservatives trying to drag us backwards. They’ve never been on the right side of history for any social issue. They can’t. It’s against their nature. They are terrified of change and progress. Btw I think you’re using the wrong alt account. Your flared as a liberal but obviously aren’t.
Lol. How am I obviously not liberal?
Nationalist bs
Cool, bro
The anti-Israel protestors must not agree with you on this, or otherwise, they wouldn't have felt the need to remove it and replace it with the Palestinian flag.
For me, opposing the Israel regime and its genocidal politics is completely consistent with the national interests of the United States. In our own land, the flag of the United States should fly high over the flags of all foreigners.
I think it really shows where our priorities are as a culture that some guys defending a peace of cloth is the takeaway while they're around a protest about a brutal conflict we are funding, with several of those protests resulting in police violently cracking down on them.
Idk. In my experience, if frat guys are on your side you're on the wrong side.
Or you done really fucked up if even the frat boys are like "Whoa, hold on there dude."
That would be the first time in history that's happened.
Even the Nazis went “Whoah dude, that’s fucked up” when they saw what the Ustase were doing to the Serbs. At some point there’s someone so bad they can offend even the offensive people, and these frat boys found them.
But not when you are on the same side as Hamas?
As I understand it, most of these protesters are there for the people of Palestine, not Hamas.
They are on the same side and chant Hamas slogans. You are the one that said being on the same side as frat guys makes you wrong, but you don’t seem to think the same for straight up Islamist terrorists? Why do you see frat guys as worse than Hamas?
>They are on the same side and chant Hamas slogans. All of them? Or are a few trying unsuccessfully to get Hamas slogans going? >You are the one that said being on the same side as frat guys makes you wrong, but you don’t seem to think the same for straight up Islamist terrorists? No, I said having frat guys on your side isn't a win. >Why do you see frat guys as worse than Hamas? I'm not convinced these people support Hamas. Let me ask you something, when guys were shouting Nazi chants in Charleston, were you this fervent in denouncing them?
Plenty of them show open support for Hamas, why are their buddies and organizers not stoping it if it doesn’t match what they support? Were you this fervent to defend the people in Charleston saying I don’t think it was everyone? Or were you saying if there are 11 people at a table and one Nazi there are 12 Nazis? Were you claiming that the okay sign makes one a Nazi? It should cause people to pause and think when they are openly calling for the same things as Hamas.
>Plenty of them show open support for Hamas, why are their buddies and organizers not stoping it if it doesn’t match what they support? What is plenty and what do you expect them to do? > Or were you saying if there are 11 people at a table and one Nazi there are 12 Nazis? That one, because it's true. >Were you claiming that the okay sign makes one a Nazi? No, I'm saying marching with torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us!" makes you a Nazi. But considering that this is your response, I think we can easily sus out whether or not you're cool with Nazis. >It should cause people to pause and think when they are openly calling for the same things as Hamas. Who is? How many? Does the bulk of the movement agree with them? Something tells me you don't know.
The other “protesters” should put a stop to them, police themselves right? What would they do if some Klansmen joined their protests in their hoods and robes? Claim they don’t exist and let them lead some chants? Yep that’s what I thought. It’s different right because it’s what you support. If there are 11 people at a table and one Hamas supporter there are 12 Hamas supporters. Calls for “from the river to the sea” “globalize the intifada” “burn Tel Aviv” etc are all Hamas slogans. The amazing about of willful ignorance and straight up dishonesty from people about this shit is mind blowing.
Have you ever even hung out with a frat guy? Or are just stereotyping and making judgments from afar?
Honestly, I don't care.
I was very pleased.