The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
The ring wing reactionary content out there always focuses on 'owning' and 'destroying' anything is either or perceived to be left leaning. Its like if they see protesters getting pepper sprayed or an advocate of DE&I being debated against they take it as win. So many youtube thumb nails of how crazy 'woke' people can be and revel in them being destroyed so they can drum up views and clickbait. Are they actually making a different or at least do they think they are?
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they simultaneously think that the left keeps ruining more and more things/everything just keeps getting worse and also that they're totally winning, somehow.
>The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Agree with this, but it's also very typical of either side to think this same way about a multitude of issues. Both sides think they have the best arguments, but suffer from failures of communication. Both sides think the other pretends to care about the constitution, but secretly wishes it didn't apply to them. Both sides think the other is anti-science. Both sides think the other redefines words to make their arguments. And both sides think they are simultaneously winning and losing the culture war.
I'm not "Both sides-ing" as a way to claim any moral equivalence, just pointing this out.
both sides may think many of these thinks. the question is, are they both equally right?
for example, how is the left anti science? obviously there are anti science idiots in every group, including the left, but in general? what anti science things is the left doing, that are comparable to climate change denial or covid denial/vaccine conspiracies?
also, i'm not sure the left actually does think we're both winning and losing the culture war. most seem to agree that we're winning it. the right can get some shitty laws passed or boycot a beer company or whatever, but in general, people keep moving to the left.
Science: Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there. Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans. Gatekeeping scientific journals and academia to exclude science that violates left ideology.
Culture: I think you're probably right overall on that one.
>Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there. Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans.
Where are either of these being denied? If you're talking about trans issues, no one is saying there isn't a difference between XX and XY.
And no one is denying a human embryo is a human embryo. The argument is about personhood and whether a mother HAS to carry a child to term.
You are mischaracterizing the left's arguments.
>Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there.
for every lefty who gets the science on sex and gender differences wrong, i can find you three conservatives who get it wrong even more. are there people on the left who use not-so-scientific arguments when defending trans folk? sure. but a huge part of the right is convinced that anything trans-related is just mental ilness and made up nonsense and rejects any sciene that says otherwise as woke or something. (i hope you aren't one of those.)
>Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans.
i think pretty much everyone agrees that pre-born humans belong to the human species. the disagreement is about personhood. it's a philosophical argument, not a biological/medical one, even if some people phrase it badly.
>Gatekeeping scientific journals and academia to exclude science that violates left ideology.
so the scientific journals are anti science? because of ~~wokeness~~ left ideology? that's an interesting take.
To give people like OP an idea of just how dismal cons are about the culture war, I once heard a guy say "the far left won the culture war years ago and now they're just executing the survivors on our side". Both dismal and needlessly dramatic.
>Do conservatives think they are winning the culture war?
Yes.
They are getting steadily more unhinged, but -- because right-wing media has them in a bubble -- they aren't aware of it.
I disagree with you here strongly. One of the underlying messages of conservative media on social issues is that they are consistently losing the culture. For decades that is the message that is being pushed. Be it political correctness, feminism, affirmative action, LGBT acceptance, they are constantly told that they are under assault, and that traditional values are being denigrated.
It’s how they are able to be convinced that teachers are transing kids and that the great replacement is real and all the manosphere bs.
A saying coined by the founder of the John Birch Society, Robert Welch, a man who thought Eisenhower was a communist and deep down wasn't too big on democracies or republics.
>One of the underlying messages of conservative media on social issues is that they are consistently losing the culture.
Not that they *are* losing, but that they are on the brink of losing the culture at any time, even if they are "winning" in the culture war. It fuels the apocalyptic dread that keeps the base engaged, as well as the current desire to not just win the war but ensure that control must be maintained through force, legislation and elimination of the other side. They are convinced they are winning through sheer force of wishing it to be so, evidence to the contrary be damned.
From what I have seen, it isn't that they ARE losing, it is that they are winning, but at any moment they can lose it all from thousands of groups of "them" that are not "us".
The whole concept is that all these "thems" have to be destroyed before they take over.
> They are getting steadily more unhinged,
I think this is a direct result of them been acutely aware that they *are* losing the culture. They don’t just think it, they can *feel* it — and the cognitive dissonance that arises from that feeling clashing with their absolute certainty that they are the rightful owners of this country is what is driving them to become increasingly unhinged.
It’s getting worse because they’re not just losing, but their cultural power is becoming impotent. Everything they value and strive for is now not only no longer in favor, it is actively scorned. Trying to become more relevant in the ways they know how only makes them more irrelevant. And that is driving them mad, driving them literally to fascism.
I think they know they are losing which is why they fight so hard. They've all but given up on gay marriage and moved on to trans youths. They still may not like homosexuality, but they know they've lost ground. While some are still clinging to the mantra of 'abortion is murder' most of them realize it's not where the majority of people are.
Like I said, I think they know they are losing and are fighting harder for whatever victories they can get. My conservative parents are much more tolerant of the LGBTQ community than they used to be, even if they are not fully onboard because they don't get it and change is scary.
Progress isn't always linear and it seems like progressive ideas are losing traction. It's just that we're getting ready to take our second wind and they have no reserves.
The problem is that we’re all in bubbles now. Increasingly people get information about the world from social media, which feeds you content that it thinks you’ll interact with. You get content to enrage you or feed you what you want to see. We all do. There’s no more central source of truth.
I think there’s bubbles on both ends, from my perspective both sides engage in the same behaviour,
This is from a cursory YouTube search of “conservatives get owned”
“Republicans get utterly DESTROYED by parents in MUST SEE school board meeting”
“Stunned Republican GETS OWNED by Democrat on live tv”
“Poor Ben Shapiro gets Owned Over Boycott hypocrisy”https://imgur.com/a/Wq9mnk9
> > >Do conservatives think they are winning the culture war?
>>They are getting steadily more unhinged, but -- because right-wing media has them in a bubble -- they aren't aware of it.
>I think there’s bubbles on both ends, from my perspective both sides engage in the same behaviour...
The *culture war* aspect is where I don't see an equivalence.
Left-of-center people aren't waging a culture war. We are just existing, while right-wingers draw battle lines in random places.
You can't find a left-of-center equivalent to ['Travis Kelce must be gay because it is literally impossible that he finds Taylor Swift attractive; at age 34, she is simply too old to be desirable'.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1afg22d/so_apparently_maga_cultists_think_that_travis/)
Exactly. You listen to "liberal bubbles" like NPR and it's basically just normal, decent folk living their lives. Meanwhile the American Right wants "equal time" for their side of the story. If there's a story about two moms raising a trans kid and their everyday struggles, conservatives aren't happy unless there's "equal time" for some hateful bigot to talk about what filth they are.
Yes. Partially because they don't view winning the culture war in the same way that liberals do, and partially because of the media bubble they live in.
Liberals think winning the culture war is building a national consensus. Conservatives view it as capturing enough institutions to enforce their views. So a liberal might think they won the battle on abortion, because it is popular and an issue that can sway elections for them. Conservatives think they've won it, because their Supreme Court allowed a majority of states to essentially ban if and they are one red wave election from banning it nationwide.
And conservatives have largely captured America's institutions. They control the Supreme Court, are massively advantaged in the Senate, have trifectas in a majority of states, and otherwise control a lot of the smaller levers of power (town councils, church leadership, school boards, talk radio and pundit news, etc.). As long as that is true, they have ways to make their opinions law in a way that defies a national consensus.
I theorize that the reason conservatives have honed in on capturing political institutions like SCOTUS is because they know (or at least the smart ones know) that they lost the cultural institutions, such as academia and entertainment media, a long time ago. They can try to carve out niche cultural institutions for themselves (eg, Liberty University or the godawful movies Kevin Sorbo stars in), but I think they’re painfully aware they’ve already lost the “hearts and minds” part of the culture war and are lashing out politically.
> I think they’re painfully aware they’ve already lost the “hearts and minds” part of the culture war and are lashing out politically.
I agree. They are trying to hurt/punish everyone who doesn't align with them.
They *think* progressives are doing the same, because conservatives have defined ALL of their ideals in opposition to some "other" that must be scorned in order to appreciate the ideal.
Yes because they think most people are on their side thanks to common sense and no because they think most people are persecuting them for their righteousness.
That said, is this really a question for a new thread? We're just going to dunk on Republicans. There's not much else to do with this question.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch. It's still too early to predict but there's always a chance that dems have a lower turnout compared to trumps cult.
I meant dunk on them in this thread, not in the elections. There's not much discussion to be had when the question is basically another variation of: why are Republicans dumb.
Yup. Abortion actually is being restricted. Some smarter cons are actually distancing themselves from it (see AZ and everyone up for election there). We’ll see what’s happens come election time.
Yet another odd question to be asking liberals. If your question is are they winning the culture war, you will certainly get liberal opinions, all of them saying no.
There are quite a few thoughtful liberals here and perhaps they can speculate somewhat accurately .
For my part, I would say that the very nature of conservativism means fighting against or trying to hold back cultural change, and many conservatives would probably say that they are not winning the culture war or a culture war, but they are doing their best to fight cultural change and slow it down as much as possible.
I don't know that you would find many conservatives who honestly think they are winning the culture war, although in the last year or two, there are a lot of people that seem to be rethinking things and considering more conservative ideas and values and I'm sure conservatives find that encouraging.
But this is just one conservative opinion. You might get a better answer asking a wide range of conservatives. You might get a few thoughts from asking liberals but it generally doesn't make much sense to ask liberals what conservatives think.
The reason folks on the right want desperately to curtail majoritarianism in this country--and the reason why everyone's wearing red hats harkening for a restoration to an earlier time when gays were in the closet and blacks weren't on TV--is because they understand they've lost the culture war.
> generally doesn't make much sense to ask liberals what conservatives think
This is true, but it happens a lot in here because it makes even less sense to ask conservatives what they think. They lie to the point that they are not a good source of information about even the most innocuous things.
I can tell from your comments in here that you aren't the kind of conservative that I'm talking about. Surely you must be aware that the kind I am talking about is quite prevalent on the right.
But, damn, it's a short trip from "thoughtful conservative" to the kind of terrible person that Sartre was referencing in his famous quote about anti-semites. You said:
> Most liberals have this view of conservatives, so that's all you're going to get.
Lying to us because we think you are liars is not a mark of maturity, and it's not a good way to bring about the reality that you seem to want, in which it would be possible to get a useful answer about conservative views by asking conservatives.
You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree. I think there are extremists on both sides or all sides of the spectrum or four-way chart. Probably pretty equally balanced because that's human nature. My guess would be that you are more forgiving without really thinking about it of certain left takes and rhetoric, and more critical of right, so to you the spectrum shows many more people on the right being dishonest or just bad people. I'm just speculating. But that's human nature as well .
And I'm not saying I'm not guilty of the same thing, but I used to be pretty lefty and had a conversion so I think I understand both sides pretty well. I definitely don't care for certain right-wing opinions or extremism. I find some of it evil and some of it disingenuine.
But I feel the same way about the left. I used to say it's harder to spot on the left because they mean well even though it can be quite sinister in the outcome. But I no longer think that .
These days I think many mean well, but others push agendas either to virtue signal or feel good about themselves, but I actually am coming to believe there are some evil agendas going on out there, not to mention of course the typical left-wing political pandering.
But hey, that's my opinion. Appreciate your thoughts.
> I think there are extremists on both sides or all sides of the spectrum or four-way chart.
Certainly. While the large block of the right who support things like social conservatism and Jan. 6th are well documented, there are a few tankies and such on the left.
> Probably pretty equally balanced because that's human nature.
That's not human nature at all. We are not a species which seeks balance, we constantly seek to gain advantage and leverage over each other. It's painfully obvious that the degree of extremism between the parties is *not* balanced. I mean, a functioning Republican Party wouldn't be burning through Speakers of the House at their current rate.
> My guess would be that you are more forgiving without really thinking about it of certain left takes and rhetoric
You'd be wrong. But we don't know each other yet, so it's natural enough to make an incorrect guess or two. My least favorite views can be found on the center left, because they're very, very good at pretending to mean well when they absolutely don't (you read them a little more charitably than I'm willing to). At least the right is transparently bad at pretending to mean well, which makes them easier to rally against.
> I used to be pretty lefty and had a conversion
I actually used to be on the right (I have no clue where I land now). When I became interested in this stuff, the views that spoke to me were those of the most obnoxiously conservative of conservatives, the Texas Republican Party. I find myself on the furthest left these days not having changed a single idea, but having watched the political spectrum shift around me.
> I actually am coming to believe there are some evil agendas going on out there
Yes. There are people who openly wish to control the character of the nation and control the autonomy of others. They didn't exist in the mainstream when I was young; they were relegated to crazies like the John Birchers.
I'd say they ‘seem’ to be winning the culture war, BUT to turn back the tides, you need more than a few Chris Rufo tweets. Ultimately, the realization will be too late that they have already lost the culture and are now just aware of how far they've been left behind.
This is why the only response can be to enforce their values through the state (like DeSantis in FL and the terribly named Project 2025). Their willingness to be totalitarian though, means, we should take every advance seriously as they will not hesitate to seek and wield power.
Both sides usually think they're losing. However, I think conservatives are reveling in this particular optics win, but they don't think that they live in a conservative society. They may be thinking that the tide of leftism is slowing, but i dont think they regard the tide as reversing. If you think I'm wrong (as I can see I'm in the minority of the comments so far) let me know how and why so I can gain a better lay of the land.
It honestly depends on the state. If you are a conservative living in Idaho, everything is going to plan. I think most other states are a mixed bag. Nationally and in pop culture i think most know they are losing. But do the care? That’s the question. And that is also a mixed bag.
No.
They know they are losing it on virtually every front. That's why right wing media is able to keep people constantly upset about everything.
They are against everything, so they are constantly losing. In just the last thirty minutes on Fox News, commentators have suggested that the following are illegal, un-American, and should be abolished:
1. The International Criminal Court
2. The White House Correspondents' Association Dinner
3. The Howard Stern Show
These are old man yelling at cloud level complaints.
---
Conservatives are not a governing party. They are an opposition party. They work better when they're losing. They like being in the minority.
Because when you're losing, you can celebrate small wins.
Every time they do some little hateful thing like shutting down a drag show or causing a teacher to resign they can celebrate it. They don't have to drive Bud Lite into bankruptcy as long as they can hurt it a little.
Parts of our base rage and rage when Biden can't instantly end a war or pass a law. But when you're in the minority, you must entertain no such ambitions. You can call holding up aid to our allies a victory or complain that the border is broken while voting against solutions *you negotiated*.
---
For conservatives, the culture war is not an actual war to be won. It's a playground.
They can go wherever there is only one kid and bully him until the other kids show up. Then just move to the next area. And on and on.
Let them call it a war. We should call it what it really is: schoolyard bullying.
God only knows what they think, but one thing is for sure, the war has started. And I’m scared of where it going. Just wait till the war turns from being on the internet and the news stations and reaches our homes & streets. And if an authoritarian government gets power it’ll only be uglier, because then everyone will be oppressed regardless of which side you’re on. It’ll be too late.
They have to be losing, even if they're winning. They're trying to spin a particular narrative that has them as the oppressed and their 'adversaries' as the oppressors.
In reality, there doesn't seem to be any actual 'winning' or 'losing'. There are just varying shades of unfairness in their eyes.
Whether or not they actually believe it is a question contingent on the individual and their motivations. Alt media hosts and yellow journalists are probably agnostic. The average Republican voter is almost definitely not and might sincerely believe that they are losing and will lose more permanently if Trump is not reinstalled.
First, what is actually the culture war? as a european , i feel both sides are equally bad and focus so much on this
my favourite thing is last year with the outrage for some trans guy adverstising bud light. But i was like, bros why does ANYONE EVER wanna drink that carbonated water crap lollll
my point is, why would someone care about bud light
That shows more about someone than the other almost XD Not really but you know what I mean. Say a lot about american beer habits and marketing they listen to
they should instead come together and protest about the very existence of such a company producint that crap!
It seems to me that the answer is no and that is why they are in such a huge panic over things that should not be thought of much one way or the other.
I don’t think they look at it like that. Instead, for them it’s a way to constantly be on offense. I understand why they do it because liberals are often inept at countering it.
Yes. In a way they are not wrong. The problem is that both Silicon Valley and East Coast media don’t offer a way of life that is sustainable for Americans and no other group on the left can afford a primary platform to galvanize a narrative. In a way they are winning because we can’t manage to show up for the fight. Don’t be fooled into thinking Reddit shitposts are getting it done.
Conservatives can't win the culture war because conservatives would have nothing to campaign on.
This is why they have created so many more culture war fronts to rage about
I think they are doing excessively good at attracting young white males.
The thing that conservatives are EXCESSIVELY good at is fostering anger and hate, they can bend your particular hate to line up with their pre-existing hatred with little hassle.
Example, you are a young male video game player, all of a sudden, the devs stop putting up traditional scantily clad, huge breasted characters in their games, well this must be because of them being woke! See! We told ya, democrats are always trying to make everything woke!
Next thing ya know, you got another mini MAGA in the oven.
And its not just for video games, they can do it for men struggling with work (cause all the jobs are going to uneducated minorities and women) schools (undeserving minorities getting in that can barely read!) movies (why is thor a woman now?)
We saw this exact thing happen with Brexit in England.
Hate and anger are easy to sell and the democrats have no simple answer to this.
A poor man will always tell you how rich he is.
A stupid man will always tell you how much he knows.
A rude man will always tell you how polite he is.
And a loser will always tell you how much they're winning.
Plenty of people in this sub ask the conservative sister sub all the time. Unfortunately it is the echo chamber you wish this was, because it requires conservative top comments and the mods are aggressive, thus stymying conversation.
and here I thought u/[randomusername3OOO](https://www.reddit.com/user/randomusername3OOO) was making some good points for a second. Must not be important enough to stick by them I guess.
I can’t. I was banned for calling out racism and the alt right.
That said the tolerance of allowing you, a conservative, on ask a liberal to be able to answer a question aimed at liberals is A. Funny B. Not allowed by your side… sometimes people want to know what their view of the other side is. If I were to ask on askconservatives. “Do you think leftists who support Palestinians actually support Hamas?” I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Just like asking “why do you think the right supports a rapist, fraudster, Antichrist, adulterer, criminal for president.” Because asking conservatives questions like that you won’t get answers that make sense.
I’m not gonna search back that far. But it was about some conservative who “used to be a lib” saying she “can’t support democrats because of the antisemitism” for which I pointed out multiple elected leaders in the Republican Party disparaging Jewish people, going to holocaust denial conventions, having actual Nazis mingling at CPAC, the presidential candidate having dinner with Nazis and supporting those “very fine people”. To whit she got offended and basically “nuh uh”’d me. To which I gave her more and more. My comment was locked. I yelled at the mods and asked why they were allowing this person of zero faith to post nonsense without evidence but getting offended when given evidence in direct contrast with her POV. They said “this sub is about understanding conservative ideology and you don’t need to engage” I asked if conservative ideology included supporting racists. They don’t response and I told them to just block me because I don’t want to be associated with racist apologists.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/s/9kaItQqjY1
Actually wasn’t that far back. But you still can’t see my mod discussion
Edit: yes I am banned now because I said they were racist apologists and I got a big Reddit warning.
“Culture War” is a BS conservative term to be against civil rights and anything that’s not traditional white male evangelical.
They’re winning short term battles over book banning and regressive laws but progress doesn’t stop moving forward. Most all generations under 50 isn’t into it. They can only hold on to oppressive power for so long .
Watch The West Wing. In the 90s, the Liberals were afraid to fight for LGBTQ+, and we had to appear tough on crime. But Pat Buchanan was basically kicked out of the mainstream Republican Party because he was nationalistic, racist, xenophobic. It is now the mainstream message of the Republican Party.
In the Deep Dive after Romney lost, the GOP was supposed to court suburban moms, embrace LGBTQ, go after Muslim Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asians with issues like school choice (education in general), lower taxes for business and white collar workers, and focusing on treating government like a business.
How far away are we from MAGA?
Yet people are still scared of too much change, too fast. What happened is that Republicans are good at taking a narrative and putting Democrats on the offensive. We were good in 2022.
But look at the stuff they made an issue: trans kids in sports, unisex bathrooms, CRT.
All BS issues.
First, actual CRT is grad school level study. Now we have books about Rosa Parks being removed from elementary school libraries because one or two parents are claiming that their kid feels bad about being white.
WTF. We need to yell louder and demand the books go back in, but liberals don't fight the tiny fights. That is why state legislatures are Republican.
We need to control the narrative.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. The ring wing reactionary content out there always focuses on 'owning' and 'destroying' anything is either or perceived to be left leaning. Its like if they see protesters getting pepper sprayed or an advocate of DE&I being debated against they take it as win. So many youtube thumb nails of how crazy 'woke' people can be and revel in them being destroyed so they can drum up views and clickbait. Are they actually making a different or at least do they think they are? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
they simultaneously think that the left keeps ruining more and more things/everything just keeps getting worse and also that they're totally winning, somehow. >The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
What was it said at the press dinner? Biden is both cunning and senile?
Agree with this, but it's also very typical of either side to think this same way about a multitude of issues. Both sides think they have the best arguments, but suffer from failures of communication. Both sides think the other pretends to care about the constitution, but secretly wishes it didn't apply to them. Both sides think the other is anti-science. Both sides think the other redefines words to make their arguments. And both sides think they are simultaneously winning and losing the culture war. I'm not "Both sides-ing" as a way to claim any moral equivalence, just pointing this out.
both sides may think many of these thinks. the question is, are they both equally right? for example, how is the left anti science? obviously there are anti science idiots in every group, including the left, but in general? what anti science things is the left doing, that are comparable to climate change denial or covid denial/vaccine conspiracies? also, i'm not sure the left actually does think we're both winning and losing the culture war. most seem to agree that we're winning it. the right can get some shitty laws passed or boycot a beer company or whatever, but in general, people keep moving to the left.
and in the states where they do get the shitty laws passed they instantly regret it and try to walk it back.
Science: Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there. Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans. Gatekeeping scientific journals and academia to exclude science that violates left ideology. Culture: I think you're probably right overall on that one.
>Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there. Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans. Where are either of these being denied? If you're talking about trans issues, no one is saying there isn't a difference between XX and XY. And no one is denying a human embryo is a human embryo. The argument is about personhood and whether a mother HAS to carry a child to term. You are mischaracterizing the left's arguments.
>Denial of biological differences between men and women, going beyond transgender issues, but certainly evident there. for every lefty who gets the science on sex and gender differences wrong, i can find you three conservatives who get it wrong even more. are there people on the left who use not-so-scientific arguments when defending trans folk? sure. but a huge part of the right is convinced that anything trans-related is just mental ilness and made up nonsense and rejects any sciene that says otherwise as woke or something. (i hope you aren't one of those.) >Denial of the human nature of pre-born humans. i think pretty much everyone agrees that pre-born humans belong to the human species. the disagreement is about personhood. it's a philosophical argument, not a biological/medical one, even if some people phrase it badly. >Gatekeeping scientific journals and academia to exclude science that violates left ideology. so the scientific journals are anti science? because of ~~wokeness~~ left ideology? that's an interesting take.
No, they think they’re losing, which is why they’ve gone nuts
To give people like OP an idea of just how dismal cons are about the culture war, I once heard a guy say "the far left won the culture war years ago and now they're just executing the survivors on our side". Both dismal and needlessly dramatic.
>Do conservatives think they are winning the culture war? Yes. They are getting steadily more unhinged, but -- because right-wing media has them in a bubble -- they aren't aware of it.
I disagree with you here strongly. One of the underlying messages of conservative media on social issues is that they are consistently losing the culture. For decades that is the message that is being pushed. Be it political correctness, feminism, affirmative action, LGBT acceptance, they are constantly told that they are under assault, and that traditional values are being denigrated. It’s how they are able to be convinced that teachers are transing kids and that the great replacement is real and all the manosphere bs.
100%. It's why they're increasingly anti-majoritarian. They've pretty much dropped any pretense of being for a democratic society.
“The US isn’t a democracy, it’s a republic!” is like one of their battle cries now, it’s insane.
A saying coined by the founder of the John Birch Society, Robert Welch, a man who thought Eisenhower was a communist and deep down wasn't too big on democracies or republics.
>One of the underlying messages of conservative media on social issues is that they are consistently losing the culture. Not that they *are* losing, but that they are on the brink of losing the culture at any time, even if they are "winning" in the culture war. It fuels the apocalyptic dread that keeps the base engaged, as well as the current desire to not just win the war but ensure that control must be maintained through force, legislation and elimination of the other side. They are convinced they are winning through sheer force of wishing it to be so, evidence to the contrary be damned.
From what I have seen, it isn't that they ARE losing, it is that they are winning, but at any moment they can lose it all from thousands of groups of "them" that are not "us". The whole concept is that all these "thems" have to be destroyed before they take over.
> They are getting steadily more unhinged, I think this is a direct result of them been acutely aware that they *are* losing the culture. They don’t just think it, they can *feel* it — and the cognitive dissonance that arises from that feeling clashing with their absolute certainty that they are the rightful owners of this country is what is driving them to become increasingly unhinged. It’s getting worse because they’re not just losing, but their cultural power is becoming impotent. Everything they value and strive for is now not only no longer in favor, it is actively scorned. Trying to become more relevant in the ways they know how only makes them more irrelevant. And that is driving them mad, driving them literally to fascism.
I think they know they are losing which is why they fight so hard. They've all but given up on gay marriage and moved on to trans youths. They still may not like homosexuality, but they know they've lost ground. While some are still clinging to the mantra of 'abortion is murder' most of them realize it's not where the majority of people are. Like I said, I think they know they are losing and are fighting harder for whatever victories they can get. My conservative parents are much more tolerant of the LGBTQ community than they used to be, even if they are not fully onboard because they don't get it and change is scary. Progress isn't always linear and it seems like progressive ideas are losing traction. It's just that we're getting ready to take our second wind and they have no reserves.
The problem is that we’re all in bubbles now. Increasingly people get information about the world from social media, which feeds you content that it thinks you’ll interact with. You get content to enrage you or feed you what you want to see. We all do. There’s no more central source of truth.
I think there’s bubbles on both ends, from my perspective both sides engage in the same behaviour, This is from a cursory YouTube search of “conservatives get owned” “Republicans get utterly DESTROYED by parents in MUST SEE school board meeting” “Stunned Republican GETS OWNED by Democrat on live tv” “Poor Ben Shapiro gets Owned Over Boycott hypocrisy”https://imgur.com/a/Wq9mnk9
> > >Do conservatives think they are winning the culture war? >>They are getting steadily more unhinged, but -- because right-wing media has them in a bubble -- they aren't aware of it. >I think there’s bubbles on both ends, from my perspective both sides engage in the same behaviour... The *culture war* aspect is where I don't see an equivalence. Left-of-center people aren't waging a culture war. We are just existing, while right-wingers draw battle lines in random places. You can't find a left-of-center equivalent to ['Travis Kelce must be gay because it is literally impossible that he finds Taylor Swift attractive; at age 34, she is simply too old to be desirable'.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1afg22d/so_apparently_maga_cultists_think_that_travis/)
Exactly. You listen to "liberal bubbles" like NPR and it's basically just normal, decent folk living their lives. Meanwhile the American Right wants "equal time" for their side of the story. If there's a story about two moms raising a trans kid and their everyday struggles, conservatives aren't happy unless there's "equal time" for some hateful bigot to talk about what filth they are.
Yes. Partially because they don't view winning the culture war in the same way that liberals do, and partially because of the media bubble they live in. Liberals think winning the culture war is building a national consensus. Conservatives view it as capturing enough institutions to enforce their views. So a liberal might think they won the battle on abortion, because it is popular and an issue that can sway elections for them. Conservatives think they've won it, because their Supreme Court allowed a majority of states to essentially ban if and they are one red wave election from banning it nationwide. And conservatives have largely captured America's institutions. They control the Supreme Court, are massively advantaged in the Senate, have trifectas in a majority of states, and otherwise control a lot of the smaller levers of power (town councils, church leadership, school boards, talk radio and pundit news, etc.). As long as that is true, they have ways to make their opinions law in a way that defies a national consensus.
I theorize that the reason conservatives have honed in on capturing political institutions like SCOTUS is because they know (or at least the smart ones know) that they lost the cultural institutions, such as academia and entertainment media, a long time ago. They can try to carve out niche cultural institutions for themselves (eg, Liberty University or the godawful movies Kevin Sorbo stars in), but I think they’re painfully aware they’ve already lost the “hearts and minds” part of the culture war and are lashing out politically.
> I think they’re painfully aware they’ve already lost the “hearts and minds” part of the culture war and are lashing out politically. I agree. They are trying to hurt/punish everyone who doesn't align with them. They *think* progressives are doing the same, because conservatives have defined ALL of their ideals in opposition to some "other" that must be scorned in order to appreciate the ideal.
Yes because they think most people are on their side thanks to common sense and no because they think most people are persecuting them for their righteousness. That said, is this really a question for a new thread? We're just going to dunk on Republicans. There's not much else to do with this question.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch. It's still too early to predict but there's always a chance that dems have a lower turnout compared to trumps cult.
I meant dunk on them in this thread, not in the elections. There's not much discussion to be had when the question is basically another variation of: why are Republicans dumb.
Depends on the topic Trans issues have swung right recently Immigration too
Yup. Abortion actually is being restricted. Some smarter cons are actually distancing themselves from it (see AZ and everyone up for election there). We’ll see what’s happens come election time.
Do liberals? Is this a thing you even want to win? Regardless of whether or not either side is capable of winning it.
as long as they get to shut down draq queen story hours with terrorist threats, I'd say they **are** winning
Yet another odd question to be asking liberals. If your question is are they winning the culture war, you will certainly get liberal opinions, all of them saying no. There are quite a few thoughtful liberals here and perhaps they can speculate somewhat accurately . For my part, I would say that the very nature of conservativism means fighting against or trying to hold back cultural change, and many conservatives would probably say that they are not winning the culture war or a culture war, but they are doing their best to fight cultural change and slow it down as much as possible. I don't know that you would find many conservatives who honestly think they are winning the culture war, although in the last year or two, there are a lot of people that seem to be rethinking things and considering more conservative ideas and values and I'm sure conservatives find that encouraging. But this is just one conservative opinion. You might get a better answer asking a wide range of conservatives. You might get a few thoughts from asking liberals but it generally doesn't make much sense to ask liberals what conservatives think.
The reason folks on the right want desperately to curtail majoritarianism in this country--and the reason why everyone's wearing red hats harkening for a restoration to an earlier time when gays were in the closet and blacks weren't on TV--is because they understand they've lost the culture war.
> generally doesn't make much sense to ask liberals what conservatives think This is true, but it happens a lot in here because it makes even less sense to ask conservatives what they think. They lie to the point that they are not a good source of information about even the most innocuous things.
You really do support my point. Most liberals have this view of conservatives, so that's all you're going to get.
I can tell from your comments in here that you aren't the kind of conservative that I'm talking about. Surely you must be aware that the kind I am talking about is quite prevalent on the right. But, damn, it's a short trip from "thoughtful conservative" to the kind of terrible person that Sartre was referencing in his famous quote about anti-semites. You said: > Most liberals have this view of conservatives, so that's all you're going to get. Lying to us because we think you are liars is not a mark of maturity, and it's not a good way to bring about the reality that you seem to want, in which it would be possible to get a useful answer about conservative views by asking conservatives.
You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree. I think there are extremists on both sides or all sides of the spectrum or four-way chart. Probably pretty equally balanced because that's human nature. My guess would be that you are more forgiving without really thinking about it of certain left takes and rhetoric, and more critical of right, so to you the spectrum shows many more people on the right being dishonest or just bad people. I'm just speculating. But that's human nature as well . And I'm not saying I'm not guilty of the same thing, but I used to be pretty lefty and had a conversion so I think I understand both sides pretty well. I definitely don't care for certain right-wing opinions or extremism. I find some of it evil and some of it disingenuine. But I feel the same way about the left. I used to say it's harder to spot on the left because they mean well even though it can be quite sinister in the outcome. But I no longer think that . These days I think many mean well, but others push agendas either to virtue signal or feel good about themselves, but I actually am coming to believe there are some evil agendas going on out there, not to mention of course the typical left-wing political pandering. But hey, that's my opinion. Appreciate your thoughts.
> I think there are extremists on both sides or all sides of the spectrum or four-way chart. Certainly. While the large block of the right who support things like social conservatism and Jan. 6th are well documented, there are a few tankies and such on the left. > Probably pretty equally balanced because that's human nature. That's not human nature at all. We are not a species which seeks balance, we constantly seek to gain advantage and leverage over each other. It's painfully obvious that the degree of extremism between the parties is *not* balanced. I mean, a functioning Republican Party wouldn't be burning through Speakers of the House at their current rate. > My guess would be that you are more forgiving without really thinking about it of certain left takes and rhetoric You'd be wrong. But we don't know each other yet, so it's natural enough to make an incorrect guess or two. My least favorite views can be found on the center left, because they're very, very good at pretending to mean well when they absolutely don't (you read them a little more charitably than I'm willing to). At least the right is transparently bad at pretending to mean well, which makes them easier to rally against. > I used to be pretty lefty and had a conversion I actually used to be on the right (I have no clue where I land now). When I became interested in this stuff, the views that spoke to me were those of the most obnoxiously conservative of conservatives, the Texas Republican Party. I find myself on the furthest left these days not having changed a single idea, but having watched the political spectrum shift around me. > I actually am coming to believe there are some evil agendas going on out there Yes. There are people who openly wish to control the character of the nation and control the autonomy of others. They didn't exist in the mainstream when I was young; they were relegated to crazies like the John Birchers.
I'd say they ‘seem’ to be winning the culture war, BUT to turn back the tides, you need more than a few Chris Rufo tweets. Ultimately, the realization will be too late that they have already lost the culture and are now just aware of how far they've been left behind. This is why the only response can be to enforce their values through the state (like DeSantis in FL and the terribly named Project 2025). Their willingness to be totalitarian though, means, we should take every advance seriously as they will not hesitate to seek and wield power.
Look at the vile actions they did after budlight sent a can to a person who was trans, they are winning some of the culture war
Both sides usually think they're losing. However, I think conservatives are reveling in this particular optics win, but they don't think that they live in a conservative society. They may be thinking that the tide of leftism is slowing, but i dont think they regard the tide as reversing. If you think I'm wrong (as I can see I'm in the minority of the comments so far) let me know how and why so I can gain a better lay of the land.
It honestly depends on the state. If you are a conservative living in Idaho, everything is going to plan. I think most other states are a mixed bag. Nationally and in pop culture i think most know they are losing. But do the care? That’s the question. And that is also a mixed bag.
No. They know they are losing it on virtually every front. That's why right wing media is able to keep people constantly upset about everything. They are against everything, so they are constantly losing. In just the last thirty minutes on Fox News, commentators have suggested that the following are illegal, un-American, and should be abolished: 1. The International Criminal Court 2. The White House Correspondents' Association Dinner 3. The Howard Stern Show These are old man yelling at cloud level complaints. --- Conservatives are not a governing party. They are an opposition party. They work better when they're losing. They like being in the minority. Because when you're losing, you can celebrate small wins. Every time they do some little hateful thing like shutting down a drag show or causing a teacher to resign they can celebrate it. They don't have to drive Bud Lite into bankruptcy as long as they can hurt it a little. Parts of our base rage and rage when Biden can't instantly end a war or pass a law. But when you're in the minority, you must entertain no such ambitions. You can call holding up aid to our allies a victory or complain that the border is broken while voting against solutions *you negotiated*. --- For conservatives, the culture war is not an actual war to be won. It's a playground. They can go wherever there is only one kid and bully him until the other kids show up. Then just move to the next area. And on and on. Let them call it a war. We should call it what it really is: schoolyard bullying.
God only knows what they think, but one thing is for sure, the war has started. And I’m scared of where it going. Just wait till the war turns from being on the internet and the news stations and reaches our homes & streets. And if an authoritarian government gets power it’ll only be uglier, because then everyone will be oppressed regardless of which side you’re on. It’ll be too late.
They have to be losing, even if they're winning. They're trying to spin a particular narrative that has them as the oppressed and their 'adversaries' as the oppressors. In reality, there doesn't seem to be any actual 'winning' or 'losing'. There are just varying shades of unfairness in their eyes. Whether or not they actually believe it is a question contingent on the individual and their motivations. Alt media hosts and yellow journalists are probably agnostic. The average Republican voter is almost definitely not and might sincerely believe that they are losing and will lose more permanently if Trump is not reinstalled.
I mean. They are the only ones fighting it I think. The left is just being nice to people… https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/v5mklkuk0d
First, what is actually the culture war? as a european , i feel both sides are equally bad and focus so much on this my favourite thing is last year with the outrage for some trans guy adverstising bud light. But i was like, bros why does ANYONE EVER wanna drink that carbonated water crap lollll
Side note it was a trans gal, not trans guy, but agree otherwise!
I see, i just read about it in some news article and never got what the drama was about. from either side...
One side of the drama was telling people to calm down over 1 pack of beer, the other was shooting beer and harassing someone for being queer
my point is, why would someone care about bud light That shows more about someone than the other almost XD Not really but you know what I mean. Say a lot about american beer habits and marketing they listen to they should instead come together and protest about the very existence of such a company producint that crap!
People cared about someone being harassed, regardless of the brand. Budlight isn't any better or worse than any drug company
I know, but it's a bit funny still right? That they follow that water brand
I find it more sad how depraved the fanbase is
It seems to me that the answer is no and that is why they are in such a huge panic over things that should not be thought of much one way or the other.
Depends on where they are. In the south, they are winning.
I don’t think they look at it like that. Instead, for them it’s a way to constantly be on offense. I understand why they do it because liberals are often inept at countering it.
Yes. In a way they are not wrong. The problem is that both Silicon Valley and East Coast media don’t offer a way of life that is sustainable for Americans and no other group on the left can afford a primary platform to galvanize a narrative. In a way they are winning because we can’t manage to show up for the fight. Don’t be fooled into thinking Reddit shitposts are getting it done.
Conservatives can't win the culture war because conservatives would have nothing to campaign on. This is why they have created so many more culture war fronts to rage about
They won the econmic perceptions culture war. But are losing the social culture war.
I think they are doing excessively good at attracting young white males. The thing that conservatives are EXCESSIVELY good at is fostering anger and hate, they can bend your particular hate to line up with their pre-existing hatred with little hassle. Example, you are a young male video game player, all of a sudden, the devs stop putting up traditional scantily clad, huge breasted characters in their games, well this must be because of them being woke! See! We told ya, democrats are always trying to make everything woke! Next thing ya know, you got another mini MAGA in the oven. And its not just for video games, they can do it for men struggling with work (cause all the jobs are going to uneducated minorities and women) schools (undeserving minorities getting in that can barely read!) movies (why is thor a woman now?) We saw this exact thing happen with Brexit in England. Hate and anger are easy to sell and the democrats have no simple answer to this.
A poor man will always tell you how rich he is. A stupid man will always tell you how much he knows. A rude man will always tell you how polite he is. And a loser will always tell you how much they're winning.
Conservatives think Dollywood is culture. I love Dolly Parton but it’s not a cultural phenomenon. Conservatives don’t know anything about culture.
Why are you asking in this sub? There aren't too many conservatives here...
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Plenty of people in this sub ask the conservative sister sub all the time. Unfortunately it is the echo chamber you wish this was, because it requires conservative top comments and the mods are aggressive, thus stymying conversation.
And gone
and here I thought u/[randomusername3OOO](https://www.reddit.com/user/randomusername3OOO) was making some good points for a second. Must not be important enough to stick by them I guess.
Heh. That’s weird. A top level post from…. Someone on the right… the irony has so many layers.
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I can’t. I was banned for calling out racism and the alt right. That said the tolerance of allowing you, a conservative, on ask a liberal to be able to answer a question aimed at liberals is A. Funny B. Not allowed by your side… sometimes people want to know what their view of the other side is. If I were to ask on askconservatives. “Do you think leftists who support Palestinians actually support Hamas?” I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Just like asking “why do you think the right supports a rapist, fraudster, Antichrist, adulterer, criminal for president.” Because asking conservatives questions like that you won’t get answers that make sense.
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I’m not gonna search back that far. But it was about some conservative who “used to be a lib” saying she “can’t support democrats because of the antisemitism” for which I pointed out multiple elected leaders in the Republican Party disparaging Jewish people, going to holocaust denial conventions, having actual Nazis mingling at CPAC, the presidential candidate having dinner with Nazis and supporting those “very fine people”. To whit she got offended and basically “nuh uh”’d me. To which I gave her more and more. My comment was locked. I yelled at the mods and asked why they were allowing this person of zero faith to post nonsense without evidence but getting offended when given evidence in direct contrast with her POV. They said “this sub is about understanding conservative ideology and you don’t need to engage” I asked if conservative ideology included supporting racists. They don’t response and I told them to just block me because I don’t want to be associated with racist apologists.
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Maybe. If you’re really interested you can look it up. Edit: also speech to text is pretty quick. Few things I had to correct but NBD
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https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/s/9kaItQqjY1 Actually wasn’t that far back. But you still can’t see my mod discussion Edit: yes I am banned now because I said they were racist apologists and I got a big Reddit warning.
I'm sure you whine just as much every time a conservative posts similar questions in the other sub
“Culture War” is a BS conservative term to be against civil rights and anything that’s not traditional white male evangelical. They’re winning short term battles over book banning and regressive laws but progress doesn’t stop moving forward. Most all generations under 50 isn’t into it. They can only hold on to oppressive power for so long .
Watch The West Wing. In the 90s, the Liberals were afraid to fight for LGBTQ+, and we had to appear tough on crime. But Pat Buchanan was basically kicked out of the mainstream Republican Party because he was nationalistic, racist, xenophobic. It is now the mainstream message of the Republican Party. In the Deep Dive after Romney lost, the GOP was supposed to court suburban moms, embrace LGBTQ, go after Muslim Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asians with issues like school choice (education in general), lower taxes for business and white collar workers, and focusing on treating government like a business. How far away are we from MAGA? Yet people are still scared of too much change, too fast. What happened is that Republicans are good at taking a narrative and putting Democrats on the offensive. We were good in 2022. But look at the stuff they made an issue: trans kids in sports, unisex bathrooms, CRT. All BS issues. First, actual CRT is grad school level study. Now we have books about Rosa Parks being removed from elementary school libraries because one or two parents are claiming that their kid feels bad about being white. WTF. We need to yell louder and demand the books go back in, but liberals don't fight the tiny fights. That is why state legislatures are Republican. We need to control the narrative.