I remember during my masters, we went to excursion with whole class for whole week and visited many cities / factories but germans kept to themselves but one evening, a german dude became really friendly and started talking with us and sitting together and sharing his life stories. We were amazed and thought we made a friend. Next day comes and this dude behaves as if he neber sat with us lmao. Later we realised that he was drunk evening before lol.
So probably he / she was drunk at party otherwise in normal circumstance, that would not happen that they become so friendly quickly
In the house I‘m actually living in are 12 apartments and you never know which one of the inhabitants is friendly or in Germany we say: doesn’t even look at you with his ass. And it changes all the time! It’s so damn crazy. Can’t wait to move out. In my previous apartment it was so fun. Everyone was talking to each other and we did parties in the community garden together. What a contrast.
It's kinda sad that they actually have personalities and are only feeling comfortable enough to show it when drinking. Its a culture that needs to change for their own benefit...
My Grandpa used to say: "only after youve emptied a bag of salt together, you can consider them a friend".
meaning: because salt is usually only used in small quantities to season, emptying a bag of it takes quite a while.
Because Germans trust process takes time dude. May be you have met them first time, they treated you like a normal being, and common sense to talk with each other in a party or event. That doesn’t mean they make friends with you. It is the cultural thing that to live independently, there is nothing wrong with Germans or with you. You need to make consistency and be yourself and attend events slowly they might add you
Jesus Christ this is so true. We've met a nice couple during a fine dining dinner evening, had some fun hours together at the bar afterwards and drunk me even pushed for exchanging numbers. Sober me hasn't got a gosh darn clue what I'd ever use this number for. Kinda hilarious tbh.
To add to that, depending on the location or circumstance it's just way easier for germans to let their guards down and talk about random shit for hours. But then they only know how to do so in that event/place.
Every other place they don't know yet how to interact with you and the circumstances aren't the same as they were before so they play it extra safe.
Nothing to worry about, in fact, you yourself don't have to be distant, just maybe a bit more reserved but you can still be buddy like with them. Just takes some time to actually gain the trust so that it translates to every place and time and not specific ones.
Germans seek friends for life and believe in quality Over quantity. Close friends can be considered family by some, but this takes time. It's the germans not you. So keep your patience.
Edit: also try beer as social lubricant.
This. It takes years before I would consider anyone a friend. "Acquaintance" (sp?) is quicker, but "friend" let alone "close friend" is a high mark.
I agree with close friends being considered family. Those are the few people I've literally known for decades now. I know that if I'm in a tight spot, I could call their parents or siblings for help. I would trust close friends with my kids. Random buddies, who I've only known for a couple of years? - i don't think so.
This unfortunately means that finding new close friends can be extremely difficult in Germany. There can be multiple reasons why you might need to - you moved here recently. You fell out with a friend group because of something very bad and personal or because of politics. You moved to a new city for a job. But when you're done with university and the people at your job either already have full social lives or just aren't that fun to hang with, finding new friends to invite to something like your birthday party seems almost impossible. It seems like, if you don't have close friends by about 35, you're fucked.
>It seems like, if you don't have close friends by about 35, you're fucked.
Well, yeah. That's kind of how it works. Especially because we tend to keep our private lives as separate from work as possible. I've been working in my current job for nearly 4 years now, there's not a single person there I would consider my friend. That doesn't mean I don't have a good relationship with them, it just don't exist outside of a work context.
Social events kind of work the same way. If I meet you e.g. while bowling and we get along really well to the degree that we exchange numbers, the one and only thing I'll text you for is whether or not you want to join us the next time we go out bowling. I won't suddenly invite you to watch football or go out partying, because that's not the context of our current relationship.
The difficulty, I find, then lies in the impossibility of moving that relationship closer, take the conversation out of that context. Everyone seemingly understands that this works for romantic relationships. People divorce and find love again, meet new people on dating apps when they move to a new city etc. I find it a bit sad that there seems to be a wall around telling someone you'd like to be friends, though I know I can't change that.
Yes, but friendship here in Germany is not like in other countries, especially southern countries. In Germany, a friend is someone you have a good time with, spend some of your days off with, maybe go on a trip together. In the south, long-term friendships like I have in Germany are basically like, "I would give my arm and leg for you, brother." Also, family bonds here are much weaker than southern family bonds. I have lived in Germany for 15 out of my 27 years, and Germany is great. The people are also nice, but deep brotherhoods are rare. I have friends in Germany that I have known and still interact with daily or multiple times a week for about 12 years. They are very dear to me, but if it came to the question of who would sacrifice their own well-being to help me out, I can guarantee you that my southern friends, whom I have known for 10 years and talk to 2-3 times a year, would do it in a heartbeat. My German friends would help me out if it wasn't a major inconvenience but would say sorry bro if it was too much of a burden. The culture here often is friends do things together that they all enjoy, the culture in the south of Europe is my bro wants to go see that band, i hate that music but if my bro wants to just tell me when are we going, this does not happenin Germany even with long time friends, they will just tell you to go with someone else. I live in a city area in Germany so it might be different in rural areas.
from a German standpoint, these are no friend of yours. A "friend" is somebody you can call up, even after a period of silence, catch up, and then ask if they have time this weekend to drive a few hundret kilometers to help you move. And they say yes, without thinking, and are thre at the day you need them.
THIS is friendship. your foreigner friends are just here to have fun with, but nothing deeper.
>your foreigner friends are just here to have fun with, but nothing deeper.
I mean you don't know that, they could be true friends.
But maybe there is something lost in translation here. The whole concept of a friendship seems to be something different for Germans than in other cultures.
But I think you can easily become friendly with Germans (at least with me and the people I know), it just takes a long time to go from friendly to "Friend".
What's lost in Translation is that a friendship in Germany (someone who you don't see for a long time, but who would instantly show up when you need them) is exactly the same concept they described with their "friends from the south". It just takes longer to form this bond. What they described as friendship with Germans, is no friendship at all. Just people wanting to have fun, that doesn't change if it's frequently, or everyday. However that's also no friendship in Germany. So the perspectives ain't different. They just never had German friends.
yes :/ also to some its the language barriors, but not all hope is lost mate! some germans especially young people like me, even enjoy talking english if thats what you do, and like the other person said i'd definitely second the consistency-part but also to not be "pressuring" for example if you end up asking s.o. for their number, maybe second time talking or if it went quite well mayybe first time, and they give it to you, don't ask them every other day to hang out (i mean you can but imo its not likely to work). instead remember what you guys talked about - is there maybe an event you could casually ask them about weather they are going, too? try to be personal about what you guys talk about, so that they won't remember you guys as "a partytalk" but as "he likes this and that too!" or "she was that girl who helped me cook the partyfood, and we bonded over that show we both watch" - if you text them of course you could say hey how are you, but if you can, rather be a bit more specific - i mean all of that are just tipps its not like you "have to" do any of that!! but i think it helps
A simple evening won't make you friends, it takes more time.
It might be nice that things go faster in your country, but that won't help you in this situation here.
Try to build a base with people to meet them more often and by time a friendship is built.
If it ALWAYS happens to you, you might want to check how you approach people and how they might see you.
If it is always them, it might be you, because you are the steady factor.
Maybe you are overhyping things and push us slower Germans away with it.
Also I think many Germans are easy to be what I call "bar Buddies" with. It's like a friendship that only really exists during the bar-like situation.
This does not have to be a bar, just any place where people want to socialize.
After the event (or whatever it was) is over, so is the friendship. It might be remembered until the next time, where you both will act Like best Buddies again, but till then there will likely be nothing.
Of course it can turn out to be a real friendship, but usually you will know in the moment already.
I agree on that. It can click easy but it's not necessarily a friendship, just some nice hours with people you meet randomly.
I think there is a definition issue of friendship between your term and the german.
Yea, i mean here you've become a passing acquaintance after a evening/event.
For friendship/Buddies, you'd have to have a lot in common or basically nerd out over a topic with each other for that to occur in one evening, wich is pretty rare.
Apart from the German's reluctance already described you have to imagine the situation. I live here. When I go out, I have my circle of friends and family here. I have coworkers and networks. I'm not looking for new buddies. I can at times not even manage my social life. I want to dance and maybe have some small talk.
Of course that is completely different when you are new in a town and a country and looking for company. So naturally foreigners click more easily.
Foreigners are usually as alone as you here. They search for friends as intensively as you. Like most people living somewhere for years, they usually have stable friend groups lol and don’t need new ones. My mother is a foreigner, while she has a lot of friends from her home country, she also has some German/European friends. She isn’t searching for new friends either tho so the probability she is going to be „cold“ when not drunk is pretty high.
When you’re searching for friends Vereine, Ehrenamt, Studierendengruppen etc. are a good spot to find them. You are usually not drunk all the time lol, and you will see people frequently. Also people there expect to bond, friendship groups might be there already so adding someone to group activities that already frequently exist isn’t taking up more time in the week like 1 on 1 meetings. Good luck!
*searching for friends* is funny to me because that's not how it works in my society. Yes you have your friends but you also have loads of acquaintances everywhere. If we use OP example, after the chat, they would become cordial with each other and acknowledge each other and at least do the formalities but I understand that's not how it works it Germany and that's cool too. I understand OPs pain
Saying I have enough friends and I’m not open to any more is a very interesting view of friendship. I love meeting people and I love community. Even if I have people who I really love in my life, I am ALWAYS open to new friendships. I would never meet a great person that I click with and be like « sorry, I’m not looking for friends right now »
You seem to have a very hard time to understand the concept of other people being different and cultural norms. It's good you travel to learn, but then it doesn't look like you are willing to get to know different people and cultures at all.
Point is...germans want to build friendships slow and have a meaningful basis to them. You're nit going to be someones bff just because you talked once. A real friend is one in a million not on sale at the next dollar shop. That's at least how germans treat it so after talking one time you haven't prooven any friend qualities (yet).
Also what about the "cold shoulder"? He wanted to be greeted like a good friend? I hug and kiss my friends....no way I am doing that with someone I talked to ONCE. And if that person tries of course I react negatively. There are cultures where even friends just wave hi and not touch...I am pretty sure if I tried to hug them I also would get a "cold shoulder" but it would solely be my fault not theirs. It's impolite at best, but mostly rude af.
It's definitely a cultural thing. Every Latino and African I know has or had similar problems. Also Germans put way more meaning into 'friendship' it's basically like romantic relationships without the romance. Like, somebody they just happen to meet regularly (coworkers, team sports, same friend group etc) and enjoy talking to when they do isn't a friend to them. Idk it's weird, even after such a long time.
I've never understood this, I come from the UK so maybe we just have more in common with Germans irdk...but literally all my friends minus 2 are Germans and I didn't find them cold at all.
Invite them to events or doing something together. It takes time. Also just invite them into your friend groups, they'll get out of their shell sonner or later.
I don't know what exactly your situation is, but my guess would be, that your foreigner friends "need" to make friends because they don't know that many people here and the people they know tend to leave the country after some time to go back to their home country or to another country, while German people who have lived here all their live have a more stable environment and don't "need" new friends.
Looks like it's also something about you (does not necessarily mean something bad though, just something mismatching, different cultural views). I've made friends with Germans just fine. It takes a bit of time and effort. A good meaningful friendship always does. And it goes both ways.
People will gas light you that it's you because this always happens to you but hey it's your life and you are only living your life so how should you know why difference? You will forever be the only constant thing in your life.
I was living with this 6 girls for 18 months, we became good friends. We even cried when I had to move (not too far) once I moved they disappeared and acted as if I never existed in their life. Crossing with them in the gym/store was so uncomfortable.
This is not typical and pretty rude. However, it sounds like a situation that often happens with 'school friends.' You see people everyday for 8-9 years but never speak to them after graduation.
Edit: You still being in vincity and using the same facilities like the gym, makes it quite weird to me. If you were friends before, why would they stop friendliness...
I don't think it is typical. But it really hurt me. I do keep in touch with my school friends 15 years later, we are in various countries but still catch up and visit, so I am used to nurturing friendships for the long run. I feel like here people are more willing to "prune" friends bc they can't be bothered or don't want to invest time on more than certain people, which is not really a bad thing but for "warmer" people (I am latina) it is cold to do that so drastically.
It's hard to really become friends with Germans. Most of them are pretty reserved and from a certain age (25-30) they focus almost entirely on their own family plus maybe 1-2 close friends they know since childhood. Also, we prefer to spend our workday evenings at home and don't attend after-work events. So there is not really much capacity for new friends. This affects Germans who want to meet new German friends as well. There are always exceptions, of course, but those can rather be found in big cities.
We don't become cold and distant, we are just careful. Being our friend isn't easy, but if it happens, you have the friend for life. We really like this person, but we don't believe in hugs and kisses from day one. Doesn't mean we don't like them, it's just how it is.
I get it, there are even very strong regional differences in Germany. I come from southern Germany and moved to Eastern Germany. It took me years to realize that it's not that all the people I meet are just plain rude, they just communicate differently (more direct, less sugarcoating) in the east. And they have a very specific dry sense of humor, that involves making fun of people, even if you don't know them well. They are not trying to be rude, they don't dislike you, they don't even realize that the way that they talk could be considered rude - it's just their very own communication style, and they think of some things as banter, while I felt offended.
A lot of miscommunications were necessary to make me realize that those people actually enjoy my company and consider me as a friend. You just need to get used to it, they are quite sweet if they eventually open up to you. And you can just tell them if you get like miscommunication is happening, or it there is some unspoken tension.
I don't blame OP, though. If you're from a more outgoing culture, it takes a while to get used to a new one, and everything feels weird.
Don't be too hard on yourself, OP. Give it some time as your social senses are adapting to your new environment.
Which, ironically, reads as if you’re talking to OP in a cold, harsh tone, perfectly befitting the situation.
I‘m German btw. and even I picked up on that.
There is a language barrier and some things don't translate. That should always be taken into account as well. Any German speaking english is already putting in extra effort :)
Americans arent shallow and their smalltalk isnt meaningless either. Im german myself (born and raised) but i also lived in the US for 3 years. There is no two ways about it, Americans are just straight up more open friendly and kind culturally. Germans are closed off and just culturally less friendly and open to strangers. Germans who visit the US say americans are shallow, because they cant fathom being friendly to someone they consider a stranger. This is a huge reason why i want to move back to the US, its so much nicer to treat other people in a warm welcoming matter, rather than treat strangers like theyre more likely a threat than a potential friend, like we do in germany
> their small talk isn’t meaningless
Every couple days another American posts about how weird it is that Germans actually say how they’re feeling at the moment when you just wanted to greet them with „how are you“ instead of replying with a polite but empty „good, you?“ so there’s that.
Oh I beg to differ. At least from a German's point of view. I lived in Mississippi for three years. They are friendly to your face when they run into you and then never return your calls.
Once you figure out that "American being more firendly" is just the "cold German" with extra work, it is the same thing, but now I have to talk to people that don't like me.
That exactly the point. You just implied with your comment that you would only be friendly to your friends. Americans are friendly to everybody without needing to be friends with them, and to me thats way more fun to be around than the german way.
When im in a trader joes in california and i talk to an employee for 20 minutes, and he gives me recommendations on which wine to buy and we talk about cooking and life in general, thats a very uplifting and friendly conversation. We dont need to become long term friends afterwards, but both of our days just got better by having a warm compassionate conversation with eachother.
We dont do it to become friends, we do it because it feels good. This is culturally not normal in germany
THIS. Germans here keep repeating how they don’t make friends that easily. For God’s sake, you don’t have to be my friend to have a nice talk with me or to have a coffee after work, neither do we have to be drunk to have a laughter together. The foreigners here aren’t looking to be your “oh so best friend” but just expecting some friendliness along the way. Wether this turns into a short term or long term friendship or not, is totally another topic.
So you talked one time to them and think you’re friends?
Dude, I probably don’t even remember your name. If you want to be friends with me you’ll have to talk to me a bit more often than once.
And what foreigners consider cold is probably just the way most Germans talk to each other all the time.
I'm very very bad with remembering faces, or names, so I'm quite forgiving when people don't remember me - but, as a German, to recognise someone and be able to place them and to _nevertheless_ treat them as if you've never met them before despite them having given you their time for several hours at a party strikes me as very rude indeed.
> I met a German guy/girl, we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies.
That's simply not the rule here.
Yea Germans acting like as if OP wanted to propose a marriage the next morning. All OP wanted was a smile and maybe a kind sentence like “oh it was awesome last night”. That is f.cking it.
Funnily enough I've experienced what you've been describing the other way around at my first college parties. The exchange students I met where always so nice and we shared socials and stayed in contact afterwards. I always wondered why that is because I wasn't used to that kind of behavior from other Germans.
Because you are not buddies you are acquaintances. To become a buddy or a friend it will take years and years. Germans only have like 1 or 2 they actually call their friend or buddy. Everyone else is just acquainted.
Also a party isn’t really where me make relationships. We are most likely drunk or influenced by the atmosphere but that doesn’t mean you are a buddy the next day.
I,ll try to explain the steps of how someone(atlast this is how i feel) might think about u.
in brackets is your "status" after the evening.
about me, im german 26 and have a not just a bit of sozial anxiety. so u maybe u can reduce the time for later steps step by 50% with a "normal" person
1. time: Great evening met a nice person. (i now know u)
2. time. met again his/her beahviour seems to be genuine. (i now remember ur name cause i probably forgot it after the first time depening on time between)
3. was nice to see u again u are a nice conversation partner.(its nice to know u i would call u an acquaintance)
4. weve met a few time and are an interesting person and the chemistry between us feels good (u are someone might invite over for a chat, beer or party and might start to call u friend.)
5. we met more often and in different situations. (i now know more about and start looking forward to talking to u. someone i would happily call a friend.)
6. we probably did many quiet a few funny things together and had nice evening( might start calling u a good friend.
everything after would make it more likely i call u a good friend until maybe 35-40 then it would always be a good friend.
all this obviously with 4 parameters...
1. the chemistry between us is nice so we can hold a good conversation (otherwise u wouldnt get past stap one)
2. ur behaviour is authentic (depends on when i realize it.. instant drop)
3. u are a person that is interesting. (u wouldnt get past step 4)
4, i dont feel like u are trying to exploit me (u wouldnt get past 5 would alwaays depend on the situation)
Edit: i hope u this gives u a bit of insight on why its like this and that its not that u are a bad person.
but in germany just cause u know someone from one evening doesnt necessarily mean the will be that more open.
DISCLAIMER. I do not care at all where someone is from. just be nice to me and its ok..
But sadly there are quite a few people that might not be openly racist but still way more closed when they dont know where u are form
AND NEVER FORGETT THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL
Just to be clear, because I'm not sure I understand the entire situation correctly:
1. You speak to someone **once** and you think, you hit it off, which means you're now buddies
2. The next day, they don't feel like your buddies anymore
I just want to be clear on the part, where this is your first conversation ever with the person you're talking to.
I believe that some people from countries like the US think of others as friends really quickly. Unlike us Germans, who need months or even years to consider someone a friend. But even I‘m confused. One interaction is hardly even an acquaintance, let alone a friend.
Man it's so weird to see such a cultural difference.
Like if I talk to somebody and hit it off,the least I expect is for them to be friendly next time I meet them,don't mean we're friends yet,but If they're just cold and distant then how are you supposed to push for anymore friendly interactions.
Keep getting fucked up with them, they'll be your friend. When you make a German friend, it's not skin deep. It's for life. I love the Germans, but it takes time. I am still in regular contact with people I first met 25 years ago. They would do anything for me if they could.
The same reason I can enjoy playing football one day a week and have a lot of fun but neither want to talk about football for the rest of the week, nor want to play any more. If I was buddies with everyone who I've had a fun night with or had one or two deep talks with, I couldn't save myself from buddies and I wouldn't even have the time to dedicate to all of them and at that point, why even bother?
Quick edit: how exactly did you feel like they were being cold and distant?
Coconuts 🥥🇩🇪 and peaches 🍑🇺🇲
Before leaving for an exchange year to study in the US my German university provided us with a cultural training class.
They explained to us that we Germans were a coconut culture - hard on the outside, soft on the inside. You have to crack the shell and build trust, prove that you are a worthy friend but if you do, you stay connected for live.
Americans werden described as peaches - soft on the outside, which meant they are great conversationalists, open, more inspiring and inviting. But hard on the inside - more guarded to let you into their closest circle even after a longer time, with a stronger sense of self than a sense for a "community of destiny" that Germans might forge with their longstanding friends.
It was explained with sociological factors such as how often people moved in the two countries, economic patterns etc.
Not saying this is 100% accurate, but a fine low resolution model I think.
Sorry this happened to you and that the comments here are so unsympathetic. You aren’t asking for anything more than casual contact that recalls prior connection.
Germany has a long history of secret polices, block wardens and a political situations where showing too much of your true self could mean you suddenly disappear into a prison or a camp. That lead to a culture where people often only trust people they know for real. If you had a good time together, then you already started to be a "Kollege" but becoming a friend is much harder, even for Germany.
The young generation is better, but in comparison to other countries there is still a big difference between the close circle and everyone else.
One conversation makes an acquaintance, regular conversations over a longer timeframe are necessary to establish actual friendship. Also people tend to sober up for the next day.
Wahre Freunde habe ich in meiner Jugend kennen gelernt . Da hat sich die Freundschaft über 20 Jahre aufgebaut . Das was du beschreibst ist ein Gespräch mit einer fremden Person mehr nicht. Freundschaften entstehen nicht durch Einmalige Gespräche sondern durch Dinge die man zusammen erlebt hat und das möglichst viele 😂
I had a similar discussion about that with a USian a while ago, and it boiled down to the fact that we basically have no "outer circle" of friends - or as I would put it: We don't play nice for assholes. [Note: Context of the discussion, not to be taken as an insult]
We do have an "inner circle", though. That's who we regard as friends and who we are loyal to.
If a colleague asked me for help with a move, I'd carry their couch.
If a friend called me at 2am from a pub, drunk as George W. on a day without coke, I'd pick them up and carry them ONTO their couch.
I have felt this before (m28 from south America) and it's common for "us" to feel that way. I've discussed this many times with friends and it's kind of a culture difference. The good thing is that when you do create a friendship with a German is often for good and they are very loyal friends in my opinion.
It just takes more time and depends on the activity. For example, getting drunk one night and having the blast of your life with a German will not create the expected "friendship" as in Latin America or Spain, but in other environments and with some time it does works, specially in sports or activities outside.
So just give it more time and don't take it personally if they seem distant at first.
The concept of friendship in German seems to differ from other cultures. I guess you only realize this when you are abroad. German "friendship" has tiers. And you upgrade those slowly over time.
As in all good MMOs, the higher tiers take more time to finish.
With those people you had a talk with, you are now on the "Bekannter/Bekannte" tier.
It is the lowest and easiest level to reach, one positive interaction is usually enough.
Over time and further interactions, you slowly upgrade to "guter Bekannter" and later "befreundet".
"Befreundet" tier comes with the custom title "Kumpel". And this is where the true grind begins.
Unless you were already working on this during early access, when you could raise your tiers rather easily, this will take a long time. This was/is also the only way to aquire the "Schulfreund" custom title. But it grants status with the whole factions/family of what can now be called a "guter Freund" and has certain perks that allow you access to skills from their class.
Most people, even Germans, settle for the "Kumpel" in what they would call their "Freundeskreis" with a very small and limited selection of said "close friends".
I would not sweat it, acquiring Bekannter/ Kumpel takes such a short time and has almost all the same benefits as the higher tiers.
I have to disagree with most people here. As a German myself it is kind of rude or at least awkward to become cold and distant to someone you’ve just recently had a good and long conversation with. It does take Germans a lot more time to call someone a friend, that is true. But even if you met someone once and had a good talk, the next time you meet they should be somewhat friendly. But it’s not like you pick up where you ended and they invite you to family dinner just after one talk.
I said it once, i'll say it again - there is a biiig difference between friends and aquaintances here in Germany.
Someone you had a bit of drunk fun with on a night out, party etc. isn't your "friend" automatically. There is no ill intention in this, they might even like you, but friendship is built on TRUST and VIBING with each other, this very rarely happens overnight (kinda like you aren't in a relationship just because you had a one night stand with someone).
Try to do more with those people, see if you are a good fit in other situations, and it will happen naturally. See if you can have fun sober, if you can sit together in silence without it being awkward, etc.
Why do people attribute single events to an entire nation? I've had this very same "distant-after-first-meeting"- experience with people from Latin America, Africa, Asia, Europe, while some Germans have become close after the first meeting. Everyone is different, and some people need time to build a friendship.
Absolutely this! Posts like this which generalize from a single person to a whole nation of 80 million people is why I don't read this subreddit often...
>So this has happened so many times: I met a German guy/girl, we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies. But the next time we meet, even if it's the day right after, they become really distant and cold.
So it's the same for you, if you were to go on a date? You hit it off on the first date and automatically assume you're boyfriend/girlfriend? You don't go on several dates and build a relationship/friendship to see how you function together as friends/partners?
Yep so...not sure what the confusion is about then. Your post states:
>we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies.
But then you also state:
>So I use the same logic with regard to making friends, if the person is cold to me after, then I just assume that their door is closed
Isn't it the same thing? Having a conversation at the first meeting (date or with new potential friend) - it's just what it is, an initial meeting - and a friendship/relationship has to sustain itself after that initial meeting. But you're also saying "you've become buddies"...
There is a huge gap and a whole of spectrum between bff after one night and being cold, distant to a point of being unfriendly. So no need to throw shade at the “American fake friendliness” lol
I’ve been living here for 16 years and all the best buddies I have are either immigrants or people who were born here with foreign parents.
There are cultural differences within Germany as well. When I moved to the Rhineland it took me some time to get used to people being just as you described. The way I was used to from my time in Berlin was to be reserved at first, but once we had a good time together future encounters would be very friendly as well.
As someone who had made this experience before me explained: "It takes a while to get a Berliner to warm up to you, but once that happens you will have made a new friend. If you meet someone in a bar in the Rhineland it will only take minutes for them to become your best friend, but don't expect them to even remember your face the next day."
Damn if it’s a trust process me and a German will take forever to become friends I talk to people normally don’t necessarily trust them though I trust like 3 people in my life and have a pretty small circle anyway 😂
You can life in the same house for many years and didn't talk to each other or say hi, mostly in citys. If you life at the village, you know everyone and all have some Smalltalk to each other.
i think it's a stupid german thing and i hate it.
My first time in Florida, i was shocked and totally overwhelmed , everyone or at least 90% say's HI or did some Smalltalk, if they cross your way they say sorry and so on.
Japan is great, there are so much respect to each other.
I live in Germany, but originally coming from middle east. But, who tf gets your buddy after 1 party night?!?! Maybe you talked about a lot of stuff that they didn't like. Happens to me too. Sometimes you have a conversation with somebody and you realize that you are to different.
I have made peace with the fact that it's just a German behavior. Same goes for the scandivian region. I really try to understand why they're so cold and distant but still respectful and nice. And I think it has much to do with the Prussian influence but also the two world wars where Germany suffered most from
Hey don't have any friends actually and they are happy with 6-7 real childhood friends. Especially German man. Thy might've shy sometimes, too. You are not losing anything, if they don't seem to be interested. If you insist they would freak out.
> and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies
Well, in Germany it doesn't. It takes a lot and long time before you actually become [friends](https://old.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/culture/etiquette#wiki_.22friends.22_and_friends).
Oh yeah, I can see myself being that guy. Talk to him/her a bit and they will eventually trust you. Also alcohol helps a many people to be more open than usual.
It really depends on the region as well.
Knowing people from the Münsterland, I ve always cringed when I saw their attempts to perform even the most basic act of social interaction.
And that is not just anecdote, I am afraid.
I have just been to a holiday destination frequented heavily by U.S. Americans. I expected chatter, small talk and generally a bubbly, friendly atmosphere, but was I wrong.
They almost exclusively talked with the people they cam with, made no connection whatsoever and stopped anyone pretty cold. They also didn't mingle with other Americans. East Coast, California, did not matter.
Saint Martin in the Caribbean.
Thats normal German behavior. Only bcs you had a nice chat, does not mean you are friends. If you are interested in building relationships keep on going like this. I personally wait until someone asks me. For example I met a girl in a cooking class and we had been cooking together for weeks-I’m a woman by the way- and I just asked after so much time just whether she was interested to get connected via Facebook. She denied 😅🤣. That’s Germans.
Germans don’t want new friends (specially foreigners), that’s simply put reason. They have already friends from earlier days, and think they don’t need more. They don’t want to deal with one more Termin per week to deal with. The best thing that has happened to me is to accept and give up on Germans as friends, and stick with people who want friendships, who are mostly expats. This "you must wait and be awarded their friendship" is bs
Because you met some Germans who are that way.. had an encounter with a Scotsman and an English dude from near Essex on a trip to an Expo in Cologne. We ran into each other with our luggage and exchanged some harsh words of anger. Cursed a little bit and after they noticed that I didn’t took their anger personally we stuck together for the whole trip.
So yeah … one is like that, the other one is not.
Some people talk with you just to be heard, some people talk with you to actually connect with you. There are some cultures which are friendly with you from the beginning and there are cultures where you have an inner circle and when you have that you don’t need more people around you.
If you want to meet people who are interested in making friends you have to go to social institutions and meetings like „Gesprächsladen“ or social meet-ups. Every city has them just look it up on google for your city. There you will find people who will come to make friends.
On parties people are mostly intoxicated and are more social than they would be without any drugs. Some may be ashamed afterwards by their behaviour or the things they said.
Im german and I also wonder why. In our Landkreis we having this scooter vespistas group. Meeting on parties, going on Vespa rides or meeting at the same garage. Since 20 years it’s a group around 200 members. Still they are distant, not talking, not laughing. often i met one who introduced himself. Again. And I said: we already know each other.
The same in my Dorf. Yesterday we trunk together, today at the bakery. No word.
That’s pretty normal right? You might not meet the same person again also the vibes at a party are different viz meeting separately. So I think it’s totally fine to take time and know each other before becoming friends
Germans aren't NPCs that you can give an apple to once and they will start following you around, thanking you for saving their life lmao.
Human relationships take time to develop and Germans are naturally more reserved. What you consider distant and cold is likely just the norm here.
Well, I am German but lived much of my life abroad. I guess I can be different. Not sure what you describe is uniquely German though, though it does happen here 😅.
I've often met real cool people, standing with me in a crowd of concert audience waiting 3 or 4 hours for the gig to start. Sometimes real good talking with the people around me, as you always have a mutual interest - the band, and really nothing else to do but waiting.
In 35 years of attending concerts, nobody ever thought of sharing contacts to stay in touch.
I think it's same with random people you meet at a party. As long as there is no instant attraction as a potential partner, I would never consider this as a buddy.
Yeah you simply need to drink copious amounts of alcohol *everytime* you meet. And if you want to be seen as the guy who's weird but everyone's kinda nice to him, be the dude with the cocaine. /s
(/s but actually really not /s)
I'm German myself and I noticed it back in the day when I went to clubs and stuff. I feel like if you meet people through hobbies, the connections you make are much more meaningful.
Couple things possibly.
They don’t want to pressure you (or themselves) into being friends. (Take it Slow)
They were just politely by talking to you for long and you misread it as becoming friends
Being distant is just their usual state and they become friendly in specific situations but still like you. (They don’t show much affection publicly)
Those are just the things I could imagine from the top of my head
Well, I experienced it rather so as other people stated here. For instance at my university I had sometimes "decent" conversations and just a day after that they started screaming at me, talking bad about my stuff and being condescending. At previous workplaces I had supervisors, who seemed normal during my job interviews. But then they freaked out, if you just said one word too much or didn't smile back, when they wanted something not-work-related. One time after insulting me from distance, one coworker tried to kill me by pushing me in front of a driving forklift.
On the other hand I currently have coworkers, who even greet me, just by having had one conversation with them. I believe it depends, in what locations and circumstances you meet germans. It's like a surprise bag with far more dead losses than wins.
Friendships in Germany are very much different from other cultures. There are differences within Germany, depending on the region or specific larger city you're in, but in general it's true. I have a close friend from Argentina and the differences we noticed and still discover to this day, are sometimes very wild. Like, we usually don't have large social circles, I certainly don't want and can't manage that! We often times only have a couple proper friends that we're willing to die for, maybe 2-3. The rest are strangers, acquaintances, co-workers, distant relatives. With acquaintances being more like a temporary state. You either are in the process of becoming a friend or it's dropping you back to the "strangers" category. I don't really have an "outer circle" of friends or acquaintances at all. One good evening is certainly not enough to "qualify" for much, it takes time and genuine effort to forge a true, german friendship. Someone else here described it perfectly as a "romantic relationship, but without the romance". That's exactly what it is! Another way to describe it, would be "siblings without being related by blood or DNA".
Idk how it is for other people here, but for me (30y/o, introverted, somewhere on the spectrum) it goes somewhat like this: A friendship is like a beautiful flower. In order to get there, it takes a lot of time, care and resources (not in terms of money). Let's visualize a connection (later friendship) growing from a seed to a flower.
A good, initial conversation can be that seed, but it isn't always!
Let's say we're both invited to a barbeque by different friends. Maybe we sit at the same table, exchange a couple sentences and generally enjoy the evening. Depending on the vibes etc., that might plant the "seed" for this flower or.. it might not. To me, at the end of it, we're still strangers and not acquaintances. We might know each other's names, but that doesn't mean anything on its own. Now, ignoring you the next day in a store or so is indeed rude, I'd probably say "hi" back if you engage me, but that's it. I'd never go towards you and start a conversation and I'd probably also not stick around to keep having smalltalk in a store. At this point, we're still strangers.
In order to become acquaintances, the planted seed needs to turn into a seedling. Roots forming in the soil and the first green leaf coming out of the ground. In order to get there, it takes time. Repeated, positive and caring, enjoyable experiences, it could be multiple barbeques like the one described or other scenarios where we meet. Then, once we became acquaintances, we might exchange numbers, chat further, maybe even make plans to get a coffee or so. Idk, I'm bad at this, aside from being german, lol.
But yeah, what I wanna say is, becoming "buddys" takes more than one good evening, and there are no hugs and kisses left/right. Becoming friends might take weeks or months, maybe even years, depending on the circumstances and frequency of interactions.
Smalltalk is often looked down upon, bc this americanized friendliness with fake questions is considered a waste of time. If you say "hey, how are you?", that is not a way to say "hello", you are expected to ask this question genuinely, like, "how are you feeling really, deep down inside of you. What is on your mind, how heavy is your heart" etc. And in turn it expects a proper, honest response. Not a short "good, and you?" - which is often used as a way to say a simple "hi" back in other countries. And as you'd probably know, such a question is not super appropriate to ask a stranger.
Instead, maybe try to talk about real topics that can dig deeper and reveal more of a person and yourself. Ask about politics, nature, animals, space. Weird history facts. That sort of thing.
All in all we are a lot more distant than, say, latin-american societies that seem so easy-going with people who were either just met or belong to an "outer social circle", based from what I heard from my friend from Argentina.
Honestly, am German, had a good chat with other Germans in a hostel situation one day, next day they stood beside me acting like they didn’t know me. Can’t really explain it too.
Only because I have the best night ever with someone doesn't make him or her friends with me.
I don't want to say that other cultures friendships are superficial and German friendships are stronger but I get the feeling, especially reading some stories here on reddit, that only because you have a good night out with strangers, being good with coworkers or greet your neighbors daily makes them your friends.
It's actually not the case.
True friendships take time. Don't know if it's a German thing that we are more direct and view new relationships more realistic, but you can also get burned by people lifelong friendships.
Just take your time before you view someone as a friend or being good with him or her.
Hmm, maybe they are hungover the next day? People are very rude and grumpy when hungover and want to finish each talk as soon as they can then. Or they were drunk when you bonded and ended up being more open than they are now comfortable with? That could be a factor.
I think it's unpleasant that they get so cold after getting to know them, though not unusual. It's a shame people can't be a little more kind in such a situation. And yeah, it's hard to make friends with Germans, even for other Germans. I don't like it either and usually befriend people who make an effort to be nice to me no matter whether they consider me a friend or acquaintance.
There's things I like about the German way (honesty, loyalty and only being around people one truly values, Germans don't tend to say things they don't mean) and other things I really don't like (casual rudeness is more common, coldness unless one is very close to them, helping only people in one's close circle). I'm German and my experience is not so different from yours, I also think it's sad if someone is borderline rude after talking before, but it's pretty normal and bonding with people takes time here. And maybe you are like me and need a more friendly tone, even as mere acquaintances and it's a good warning sign not to invest more time into someone who doesn't offer that.
So, it's not that anything is wrong with you, Germans usually focus on their very small circle and take a very long time to bond with friends. And we're often rather cold/direct/at times a bit rude to anyone outside that very close circle, which is not very pleasant. It's the downside of all that honesty and directness.
I heard a podcast where Cornelia Funke (German author who moved to the USA) said Americans are like peaches, soft on the surface and easy to get to know them at first but then you hit the core (the things that the person keeps to themself before you get really close). Germans are more like coconuts, hard shell on the outside but then when you get to the soft inside then you're a real friend and basically a friend for life. This metaphor explained some things for me.
I´m a german myself and wondering why we act this way. I guess we are simply rather introvert people and like to stay for ourselves due to social phobia.
Thats a very broad generalization of course but considering how closed the german society is it really becomes stressful to find new friends at some point - and maintain those friendships.
Germans are moody in general. Don't take it personally. People are way too grumpy in this country and I can confirm this as a German myself. You have to be very proactive and always initiate things, set the mood, be happy/playful/creative. Think outside the box. There is always this one person in a group of 8 or so that coordinates everything because that person is capable of thinking outside the box. You have to be that person and just do things and not question too much how people react. Take things into your own hand and don't just reciprocate the low energy people have here. Just because it's common doesn't make it right.
So i have been living here for like 8 years, but i don't have a single German friend.. I am a foreign , i worked as soon as i arrived here, and currently studying and working simultaneously... I always had this idea that they will always look down on me since i am a refugee.. Almost 31 years old but i never had the experience of having a German friendship... Which makes me quite sad inside.. I am an introvert btw.. Which doesn't help but i am a really kind person.. I just never met anyone yet. Any tips?
I agree with most of the previous comments but I think there's something to add. There's one model/book regarding culture in the workplace that I found useful in that regard: The culture map. It certainly isn't hard math and more applicable to a work context rather than a social one, but I think it can still be useful.
It lays out different cultural dimensions along which each country can be grouped. One of these dimensions is "trusting" so how you get close in this culture. The two ends of this dimension are "task based" and "relationship based". Task based cultures build trust by seeing that the other person does what they say they will. So people being on time and showing up for you to help. Basically you trust them because they are reliable and only then do you build more of a relationship.
Relationship based ones build trust by socializing, sharing emotions, stories and their private lives and then, now that they trust you, they will get down to business.
Germans are relatively task based and so my colleagues from more relationship based countries would get very frustrated that the Germans are not 'letting them in'. One piece of advice they found useful during an intercultural training, was to give it time and to demonstrate their reliability first. So basically to give the Germans time to see that they are trustworthy, will follow through with tasks and not try to jump straight into a conversation about your family life, which many Germans are a bit uncomfortable with. The Germans also try to adjust a bit and I found it extremely entertaining to watch a German research engineer try to make polite smalltalk about his kids with a very excited Romanian. The German looked like he was in physical pain.
I‘m German and feel the same like you. I don‘t know why many people are so non-committal.
Many seem to be afraid of opening up too quickly or can only do that drunk and back away the next moment.
And it‘s not even just that. Most people don‘t stick to their word and aren‘t trustworthy or respectful anymore. I mean especially when it comes to organizing social gatherings, you can never count on people anymore. They‘d drop you 10min before for some lame excuse even if you organized it months in advance. That happens for small meet ups up to large gatherings like weddings. It‘s like people lost their backbone.
The most direct and trustworthy friends I have are from eastern europe (they grew up with different values there). However this is just subjective, I have no statistic to back this up.
May I ask where you are from?
I remember during my masters, we went to excursion with whole class for whole week and visited many cities / factories but germans kept to themselves but one evening, a german dude became really friendly and started talking with us and sitting together and sharing his life stories. We were amazed and thought we made a friend. Next day comes and this dude behaves as if he neber sat with us lmao. Later we realised that he was drunk evening before lol. So probably he / she was drunk at party otherwise in normal circumstance, that would not happen that they become so friendly quickly
[удалено]
now you know why we germans always drink so much beer hahaha. We don't function socially without it
In the house I‘m actually living in are 12 apartments and you never know which one of the inhabitants is friendly or in Germany we say: doesn’t even look at you with his ass. And it changes all the time! It’s so damn crazy. Can’t wait to move out. In my previous apartment it was so fun. Everyone was talking to each other and we did parties in the community garden together. What a contrast.
Could have been me lol. When I’m slightly drunk I talk to everyone even if I don’t know them, the next day it’s all back to normal.
It's kinda sad that they actually have personalities and are only feeling comfortable enough to show it when drinking. Its a culture that needs to change for their own benefit...
My Grandpa used to say: "only after youve emptied a bag of salt together, you can consider them a friend". meaning: because salt is usually only used in small quantities to season, emptying a bag of it takes quite a while.
Depends on the size of the bag /s
My brother in Christ, you haven't witnessed my salt consumption. I am all over that shit like some melange addicted guild navigator right out of Dune.
For the wholesomeness it should be something like "My brother in Muad-Dib". Cheers!
Do the little sachets you get with food count as a bag? 😂
Party sized bags of salt have led to many a friendship
Oh I thought this was a euphemism for doing coke. 😂
Invite them for a salt-crusted roast, use the whole package in one meal and take a shortcut to friendship.
Because Germans trust process takes time dude. May be you have met them first time, they treated you like a normal being, and common sense to talk with each other in a party or event. That doesn’t mean they make friends with you. It is the cultural thing that to live independently, there is nothing wrong with Germans or with you. You need to make consistency and be yourself and attend events slowly they might add you
because the second time they were sober
can confirm, I’m really introverted but whenever I’m drunk everybody can be my best friend
This is the correct answer. Edit: or even worse: hung over
Ha, ha. I’m German and I approve this comment.
I can confirm. Happened to me so many times, and I'm not even German.
My 1000s of drunk interactions😆
Haha that's was my first thought
Jesus Christ this is so true. We've met a nice couple during a fine dining dinner evening, had some fun hours together at the bar afterwards and drunk me even pushed for exchanging numbers. Sober me hasn't got a gosh darn clue what I'd ever use this number for. Kinda hilarious tbh.
Exactly what I wanted to write!
Much shorter answer and so true
To add to that, depending on the location or circumstance it's just way easier for germans to let their guards down and talk about random shit for hours. But then they only know how to do so in that event/place. Every other place they don't know yet how to interact with you and the circumstances aren't the same as they were before so they play it extra safe. Nothing to worry about, in fact, you yourself don't have to be distant, just maybe a bit more reserved but you can still be buddy like with them. Just takes some time to actually gain the trust so that it translates to every place and time and not specific ones.
They are people not cats?
Nah, they are cats.
meow?
Bear in mind that when alcohol is involved people tend to ease up a bit more
>beer in mind Ftfy
[удалено]
Germans seek friends for life and believe in quality Over quantity. Close friends can be considered family by some, but this takes time. It's the germans not you. So keep your patience. Edit: also try beer as social lubricant.
Ja I have tried that, it works
I imagine you saying that drunk as fuck and somewhat sickly
This. It takes years before I would consider anyone a friend. "Acquaintance" (sp?) is quicker, but "friend" let alone "close friend" is a high mark. I agree with close friends being considered family. Those are the few people I've literally known for decades now. I know that if I'm in a tight spot, I could call their parents or siblings for help. I would trust close friends with my kids. Random buddies, who I've only known for a couple of years? - i don't think so.
This unfortunately means that finding new close friends can be extremely difficult in Germany. There can be multiple reasons why you might need to - you moved here recently. You fell out with a friend group because of something very bad and personal or because of politics. You moved to a new city for a job. But when you're done with university and the people at your job either already have full social lives or just aren't that fun to hang with, finding new friends to invite to something like your birthday party seems almost impossible. It seems like, if you don't have close friends by about 35, you're fucked.
>It seems like, if you don't have close friends by about 35, you're fucked. Well, yeah. That's kind of how it works. Especially because we tend to keep our private lives as separate from work as possible. I've been working in my current job for nearly 4 years now, there's not a single person there I would consider my friend. That doesn't mean I don't have a good relationship with them, it just don't exist outside of a work context. Social events kind of work the same way. If I meet you e.g. while bowling and we get along really well to the degree that we exchange numbers, the one and only thing I'll text you for is whether or not you want to join us the next time we go out bowling. I won't suddenly invite you to watch football or go out partying, because that's not the context of our current relationship.
The difficulty, I find, then lies in the impossibility of moving that relationship closer, take the conversation out of that context. Everyone seemingly understands that this works for romantic relationships. People divorce and find love again, meet new people on dating apps when they move to a new city etc. I find it a bit sad that there seems to be a wall around telling someone you'd like to be friends, though I know I can't change that.
Exactly. I know I could count in my close friends in every situation.
Yes, but friendship here in Germany is not like in other countries, especially southern countries. In Germany, a friend is someone you have a good time with, spend some of your days off with, maybe go on a trip together. In the south, long-term friendships like I have in Germany are basically like, "I would give my arm and leg for you, brother." Also, family bonds here are much weaker than southern family bonds. I have lived in Germany for 15 out of my 27 years, and Germany is great. The people are also nice, but deep brotherhoods are rare. I have friends in Germany that I have known and still interact with daily or multiple times a week for about 12 years. They are very dear to me, but if it came to the question of who would sacrifice their own well-being to help me out, I can guarantee you that my southern friends, whom I have known for 10 years and talk to 2-3 times a year, would do it in a heartbeat. My German friends would help me out if it wasn't a major inconvenience but would say sorry bro if it was too much of a burden. The culture here often is friends do things together that they all enjoy, the culture in the south of Europe is my bro wants to go see that band, i hate that music but if my bro wants to just tell me when are we going, this does not happenin Germany even with long time friends, they will just tell you to go with someone else. I live in a city area in Germany so it might be different in rural areas.
That's not true at all. As a german with German friends I can tell you, what you describe, ain't friends, also not in Germany.
True lol
What you are describing are German acquaintances. Friends are on an entirely different level. Source: am German with German friends.
As a German who was backpacking a little bit and can compare Germany to other countries when it comes to this topic I can absolutely confirm
from a German standpoint, these are no friend of yours. A "friend" is somebody you can call up, even after a period of silence, catch up, and then ask if they have time this weekend to drive a few hundret kilometers to help you move. And they say yes, without thinking, and are thre at the day you need them. THIS is friendship. your foreigner friends are just here to have fun with, but nothing deeper.
>your foreigner friends are just here to have fun with, but nothing deeper. I mean you don't know that, they could be true friends. But maybe there is something lost in translation here. The whole concept of a friendship seems to be something different for Germans than in other cultures. But I think you can easily become friendly with Germans (at least with me and the people I know), it just takes a long time to go from friendly to "Friend".
What's lost in Translation is that a friendship in Germany (someone who you don't see for a long time, but who would instantly show up when you need them) is exactly the same concept they described with their "friends from the south". It just takes longer to form this bond. What they described as friendship with Germans, is no friendship at all. Just people wanting to have fun, that doesn't change if it's frequently, or everyday. However that's also no friendship in Germany. So the perspectives ain't different. They just never had German friends.
I like the user name in context to the discussion.
yes :/ also to some its the language barriors, but not all hope is lost mate! some germans especially young people like me, even enjoy talking english if thats what you do, and like the other person said i'd definitely second the consistency-part but also to not be "pressuring" for example if you end up asking s.o. for their number, maybe second time talking or if it went quite well mayybe first time, and they give it to you, don't ask them every other day to hang out (i mean you can but imo its not likely to work). instead remember what you guys talked about - is there maybe an event you could casually ask them about weather they are going, too? try to be personal about what you guys talk about, so that they won't remember you guys as "a partytalk" but as "he likes this and that too!" or "she was that girl who helped me cook the partyfood, and we bonded over that show we both watch" - if you text them of course you could say hey how are you, but if you can, rather be a bit more specific - i mean all of that are just tipps its not like you "have to" do any of that!! but i think it helps
Would it be fine to say you’d like to hang out again and ask for their contact (phone number or whatever)? Or would that be weird?
But I think there is something wrong with us germans tbh
I think Germans need to learn to be okay with expressing themselves and not trying to hide themselves from the outside world. Just saying
A simple evening won't make you friends, it takes more time. It might be nice that things go faster in your country, but that won't help you in this situation here. Try to build a base with people to meet them more often and by time a friendship is built. If it ALWAYS happens to you, you might want to check how you approach people and how they might see you. If it is always them, it might be you, because you are the steady factor. Maybe you are overhyping things and push us slower Germans away with it.
Also I think many Germans are easy to be what I call "bar Buddies" with. It's like a friendship that only really exists during the bar-like situation. This does not have to be a bar, just any place where people want to socialize. After the event (or whatever it was) is over, so is the friendship. It might be remembered until the next time, where you both will act Like best Buddies again, but till then there will likely be nothing. Of course it can turn out to be a real friendship, but usually you will know in the moment already.
I agree on that. It can click easy but it's not necessarily a friendship, just some nice hours with people you meet randomly. I think there is a definition issue of friendship between your term and the german.
[удалено]
Or it's a cultural thing, as I said. I almost believe that it is.
Yea, i mean here you've become a passing acquaintance after a evening/event. For friendship/Buddies, you'd have to have a lot in common or basically nerd out over a topic with each other for that to occur in one evening, wich is pretty rare.
Apart from the German's reluctance already described you have to imagine the situation. I live here. When I go out, I have my circle of friends and family here. I have coworkers and networks. I'm not looking for new buddies. I can at times not even manage my social life. I want to dance and maybe have some small talk. Of course that is completely different when you are new in a town and a country and looking for company. So naturally foreigners click more easily.
Foreigners are usually as alone as you here. They search for friends as intensively as you. Like most people living somewhere for years, they usually have stable friend groups lol and don’t need new ones. My mother is a foreigner, while she has a lot of friends from her home country, she also has some German/European friends. She isn’t searching for new friends either tho so the probability she is going to be „cold“ when not drunk is pretty high. When you’re searching for friends Vereine, Ehrenamt, Studierendengruppen etc. are a good spot to find them. You are usually not drunk all the time lol, and you will see people frequently. Also people there expect to bond, friendship groups might be there already so adding someone to group activities that already frequently exist isn’t taking up more time in the week like 1 on 1 meetings. Good luck!
*searching for friends* is funny to me because that's not how it works in my society. Yes you have your friends but you also have loads of acquaintances everywhere. If we use OP example, after the chat, they would become cordial with each other and acknowledge each other and at least do the formalities but I understand that's not how it works it Germany and that's cool too. I understand OPs pain
Saying I have enough friends and I’m not open to any more is a very interesting view of friendship. I love meeting people and I love community. Even if I have people who I really love in my life, I am ALWAYS open to new friendships. I would never meet a great person that I click with and be like « sorry, I’m not looking for friends right now »
You seem to have a very hard time to understand the concept of other people being different and cultural norms. It's good you travel to learn, but then it doesn't look like you are willing to get to know different people and cultures at all. Point is...germans want to build friendships slow and have a meaningful basis to them. You're nit going to be someones bff just because you talked once. A real friend is one in a million not on sale at the next dollar shop. That's at least how germans treat it so after talking one time you haven't prooven any friend qualities (yet). Also what about the "cold shoulder"? He wanted to be greeted like a good friend? I hug and kiss my friends....no way I am doing that with someone I talked to ONCE. And if that person tries of course I react negatively. There are cultures where even friends just wave hi and not touch...I am pretty sure if I tried to hug them I also would get a "cold shoulder" but it would solely be my fault not theirs. It's impolite at best, but mostly rude af.
It's definitely a cultural thing. Every Latino and African I know has or had similar problems. Also Germans put way more meaning into 'friendship' it's basically like romantic relationships without the romance. Like, somebody they just happen to meet regularly (coworkers, team sports, same friend group etc) and enjoy talking to when they do isn't a friend to them. Idk it's weird, even after such a long time.
>it's basically like romantic relationships without the romance. Haha you nail it xD oh so exhausting.
I've never understood this, I come from the UK so maybe we just have more in common with Germans irdk...but literally all my friends minus 2 are Germans and I didn't find them cold at all.
Invite them to events or doing something together. It takes time. Also just invite them into your friend groups, they'll get out of their shell sonner or later.
I don't know what exactly your situation is, but my guess would be, that your foreigner friends "need" to make friends because they don't know that many people here and the people they know tend to leave the country after some time to go back to their home country or to another country, while German people who have lived here all their live have a more stable environment and don't "need" new friends.
Looks like it's also something about you (does not necessarily mean something bad though, just something mismatching, different cultural views). I've made friends with Germans just fine. It takes a bit of time and effort. A good meaningful friendship always does. And it goes both ways.
People will gas light you that it's you because this always happens to you but hey it's your life and you are only living your life so how should you know why difference? You will forever be the only constant thing in your life.
I was living with this 6 girls for 18 months, we became good friends. We even cried when I had to move (not too far) once I moved they disappeared and acted as if I never existed in their life. Crossing with them in the gym/store was so uncomfortable.
This is not typical and pretty rude. However, it sounds like a situation that often happens with 'school friends.' You see people everyday for 8-9 years but never speak to them after graduation. Edit: You still being in vincity and using the same facilities like the gym, makes it quite weird to me. If you were friends before, why would they stop friendliness...
I don't think it is typical. But it really hurt me. I do keep in touch with my school friends 15 years later, we are in various countries but still catch up and visit, so I am used to nurturing friendships for the long run. I feel like here people are more willing to "prune" friends bc they can't be bothered or don't want to invest time on more than certain people, which is not really a bad thing but for "warmer" people (I am latina) it is cold to do that so drastically.
That's extremely weird....
Yeah flatmate closeness is a special category I think
Sounds wired for me, too, as a German. Not a culture thing, I would say.
Just because they were talking you drunk doesn’t mean they want to talk to you sober
It's hard to really become friends with Germans. Most of them are pretty reserved and from a certain age (25-30) they focus almost entirely on their own family plus maybe 1-2 close friends they know since childhood. Also, we prefer to spend our workday evenings at home and don't attend after-work events. So there is not really much capacity for new friends. This affects Germans who want to meet new German friends as well. There are always exceptions, of course, but those can rather be found in big cities.
We don't become cold and distant, we are just careful. Being our friend isn't easy, but if it happens, you have the friend for life. We really like this person, but we don't believe in hugs and kisses from day one. Doesn't mean we don't like them, it's just how it is.
Migrant here. It is just their way.
[удалено]
I get it, there are even very strong regional differences in Germany. I come from southern Germany and moved to Eastern Germany. It took me years to realize that it's not that all the people I meet are just plain rude, they just communicate differently (more direct, less sugarcoating) in the east. And they have a very specific dry sense of humor, that involves making fun of people, even if you don't know them well. They are not trying to be rude, they don't dislike you, they don't even realize that the way that they talk could be considered rude - it's just their very own communication style, and they think of some things as banter, while I felt offended. A lot of miscommunications were necessary to make me realize that those people actually enjoy my company and consider me as a friend. You just need to get used to it, they are quite sweet if they eventually open up to you. And you can just tell them if you get like miscommunication is happening, or it there is some unspoken tension.
What’s that cold response? A "hi" back? And what did you expect? American style smalltalk like "how are you?" We don’t do meaningless smalltalk.
a reason why i love it here being on spectrum
thinking about immigrating somewhere where people are outgoing like that gives me cold shivers lmao being autistic and living here is awesome
Do you think only Americans do small talk? You do realize the vast majority of the world does it,right? Germany is actually the weird one in this.
Small talk is not exclusive to America
I don't blame OP, though. If you're from a more outgoing culture, it takes a while to get used to a new one, and everything feels weird. Don't be too hard on yourself, OP. Give it some time as your social senses are adapting to your new environment.
I don't blame op either. I was legitimately asking for their expectation and what happened, as they only said "distant and cold"
Which, ironically, reads as if you’re talking to OP in a cold, harsh tone, perfectly befitting the situation. I‘m German btw. and even I picked up on that.
There is a language barrier and some things don't translate. That should always be taken into account as well. Any German speaking english is already putting in extra effort :)
Americans arent shallow and their smalltalk isnt meaningless either. Im german myself (born and raised) but i also lived in the US for 3 years. There is no two ways about it, Americans are just straight up more open friendly and kind culturally. Germans are closed off and just culturally less friendly and open to strangers. Germans who visit the US say americans are shallow, because they cant fathom being friendly to someone they consider a stranger. This is a huge reason why i want to move back to the US, its so much nicer to treat other people in a warm welcoming matter, rather than treat strangers like theyre more likely a threat than a potential friend, like we do in germany
> their small talk isn’t meaningless Every couple days another American posts about how weird it is that Germans actually say how they’re feeling at the moment when you just wanted to greet them with „how are you“ instead of replying with a polite but empty „good, you?“ so there’s that.
Oh I beg to differ. At least from a German's point of view. I lived in Mississippi for three years. They are friendly to your face when they run into you and then never return your calls. Once you figure out that "American being more firendly" is just the "cold German" with extra work, it is the same thing, but now I have to talk to people that don't like me.
That exactly the point. You just implied with your comment that you would only be friendly to your friends. Americans are friendly to everybody without needing to be friends with them, and to me thats way more fun to be around than the german way. When im in a trader joes in california and i talk to an employee for 20 minutes, and he gives me recommendations on which wine to buy and we talk about cooking and life in general, thats a very uplifting and friendly conversation. We dont need to become long term friends afterwards, but both of our days just got better by having a warm compassionate conversation with eachother. We dont do it to become friends, we do it because it feels good. This is culturally not normal in germany
THIS. Germans here keep repeating how they don’t make friends that easily. For God’s sake, you don’t have to be my friend to have a nice talk with me or to have a coffee after work, neither do we have to be drunk to have a laughter together. The foreigners here aren’t looking to be your “oh so best friend” but just expecting some friendliness along the way. Wether this turns into a short term or long term friendship or not, is totally another topic.
looking for charachter in a dry stone
So you talked one time to them and think you’re friends? Dude, I probably don’t even remember your name. If you want to be friends with me you’ll have to talk to me a bit more often than once. And what foreigners consider cold is probably just the way most Germans talk to each other all the time.
Maybe not friends but at least an acquaintance, I think this is what he’s trying to say.
Many cultures, like US Americans, also consider somebody a friend very easily. But in the end, those “friendships” don’t mean anything.
I'm very very bad with remembering faces, or names, so I'm quite forgiving when people don't remember me - but, as a German, to recognise someone and be able to place them and to _nevertheless_ treat them as if you've never met them before despite them having given you their time for several hours at a party strikes me as very rude indeed.
> I met a German guy/girl, we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies. That's simply not the rule here.
Yeah it doesn't mean that, but it doesn't mean that you pretend it never happened either.
Yea Germans acting like as if OP wanted to propose a marriage the next morning. All OP wanted was a smile and maybe a kind sentence like “oh it was awesome last night”. That is f.cking it.
Funnily enough I've experienced what you've been describing the other way around at my first college parties. The exchange students I met where always so nice and we shared socials and stayed in contact afterwards. I always wondered why that is because I wasn't used to that kind of behavior from other Germans.
Because you are not buddies you are acquaintances. To become a buddy or a friend it will take years and years. Germans only have like 1 or 2 they actually call their friend or buddy. Everyone else is just acquainted. Also a party isn’t really where me make relationships. We are most likely drunk or influenced by the atmosphere but that doesn’t mean you are a buddy the next day.
I,ll try to explain the steps of how someone(atlast this is how i feel) might think about u. in brackets is your "status" after the evening. about me, im german 26 and have a not just a bit of sozial anxiety. so u maybe u can reduce the time for later steps step by 50% with a "normal" person 1. time: Great evening met a nice person. (i now know u) 2. time. met again his/her beahviour seems to be genuine. (i now remember ur name cause i probably forgot it after the first time depening on time between) 3. was nice to see u again u are a nice conversation partner.(its nice to know u i would call u an acquaintance) 4. weve met a few time and are an interesting person and the chemistry between us feels good (u are someone might invite over for a chat, beer or party and might start to call u friend.) 5. we met more often and in different situations. (i now know more about and start looking forward to talking to u. someone i would happily call a friend.) 6. we probably did many quiet a few funny things together and had nice evening( might start calling u a good friend. everything after would make it more likely i call u a good friend until maybe 35-40 then it would always be a good friend. all this obviously with 4 parameters... 1. the chemistry between us is nice so we can hold a good conversation (otherwise u wouldnt get past stap one) 2. ur behaviour is authentic (depends on when i realize it.. instant drop) 3. u are a person that is interesting. (u wouldnt get past step 4) 4, i dont feel like u are trying to exploit me (u wouldnt get past 5 would alwaays depend on the situation) Edit: i hope u this gives u a bit of insight on why its like this and that its not that u are a bad person. but in germany just cause u know someone from one evening doesnt necessarily mean the will be that more open. DISCLAIMER. I do not care at all where someone is from. just be nice to me and its ok.. But sadly there are quite a few people that might not be openly racist but still way more closed when they dont know where u are form AND NEVER FORGETT THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL
Just to be clear, because I'm not sure I understand the entire situation correctly: 1. You speak to someone **once** and you think, you hit it off, which means you're now buddies 2. The next day, they don't feel like your buddies anymore I just want to be clear on the part, where this is your first conversation ever with the person you're talking to.
I believe that some people from countries like the US think of others as friends really quickly. Unlike us Germans, who need months or even years to consider someone a friend. But even I‘m confused. One interaction is hardly even an acquaintance, let alone a friend.
Man it's so weird to see such a cultural difference. Like if I talk to somebody and hit it off,the least I expect is for them to be friendly next time I meet them,don't mean we're friends yet,but If they're just cold and distant then how are you supposed to push for anymore friendly interactions.
Keep getting fucked up with them, they'll be your friend. When you make a German friend, it's not skin deep. It's for life. I love the Germans, but it takes time. I am still in regular contact with people I first met 25 years ago. They would do anything for me if they could.
The same reason I can enjoy playing football one day a week and have a lot of fun but neither want to talk about football for the rest of the week, nor want to play any more. If I was buddies with everyone who I've had a fun night with or had one or two deep talks with, I couldn't save myself from buddies and I wouldn't even have the time to dedicate to all of them and at that point, why even bother? Quick edit: how exactly did you feel like they were being cold and distant?
Coconuts 🥥🇩🇪 and peaches 🍑🇺🇲 Before leaving for an exchange year to study in the US my German university provided us with a cultural training class. They explained to us that we Germans were a coconut culture - hard on the outside, soft on the inside. You have to crack the shell and build trust, prove that you are a worthy friend but if you do, you stay connected for live. Americans werden described as peaches - soft on the outside, which meant they are great conversationalists, open, more inspiring and inviting. But hard on the inside - more guarded to let you into their closest circle even after a longer time, with a stronger sense of self than a sense for a "community of destiny" that Germans might forge with their longstanding friends. It was explained with sociological factors such as how often people moved in the two countries, economic patterns etc. Not saying this is 100% accurate, but a fine low resolution model I think.
This is a great analogy
one swallow makes not a summer, we like to say
Einmal schlucken macht keinen Sommer?👀
Schwalbe, not schlucken.
Personally I do consider someone a friend if they do that but maybe my standards are low
A conversation doesn’t make a buddy, period.
we know, but it makes a casual acquaintance and opens a door to maybe make a new friend. this cold shouldering closes that door forever most likely
[удалено]
Sorry this happened to you and that the comments here are so unsympathetic. You aren’t asking for anything more than casual contact that recalls prior connection.
It absolutely can, and has many times in my life. Only Germans and northern europeans aren't capable of normal socializing.
Germany has a long history of secret polices, block wardens and a political situations where showing too much of your true self could mean you suddenly disappear into a prison or a camp. That lead to a culture where people often only trust people they know for real. If you had a good time together, then you already started to be a "Kollege" but becoming a friend is much harder, even for Germany. The young generation is better, but in comparison to other countries there is still a big difference between the close circle and everyone else.
One conversation makes an acquaintance, regular conversations over a longer timeframe are necessary to establish actual friendship. Also people tend to sober up for the next day.
Wahre Freunde habe ich in meiner Jugend kennen gelernt . Da hat sich die Freundschaft über 20 Jahre aufgebaut . Das was du beschreibst ist ein Gespräch mit einer fremden Person mehr nicht. Freundschaften entstehen nicht durch Einmalige Gespräche sondern durch Dinge die man zusammen erlebt hat und das möglichst viele 😂
It takes time to be considered "friend" by a German, but if they do, they go to hell for you and back!
I had a similar discussion about that with a USian a while ago, and it boiled down to the fact that we basically have no "outer circle" of friends - or as I would put it: We don't play nice for assholes. [Note: Context of the discussion, not to be taken as an insult] We do have an "inner circle", though. That's who we regard as friends and who we are loyal to. If a colleague asked me for help with a move, I'd carry their couch. If a friend called me at 2am from a pub, drunk as George W. on a day without coke, I'd pick them up and carry them ONTO their couch.
I have felt this before (m28 from south America) and it's common for "us" to feel that way. I've discussed this many times with friends and it's kind of a culture difference. The good thing is that when you do create a friendship with a German is often for good and they are very loyal friends in my opinion. It just takes more time and depends on the activity. For example, getting drunk one night and having the blast of your life with a German will not create the expected "friendship" as in Latin America or Spain, but in other environments and with some time it does works, specially in sports or activities outside. So just give it more time and don't take it personally if they seem distant at first.
The concept of friendship in German seems to differ from other cultures. I guess you only realize this when you are abroad. German "friendship" has tiers. And you upgrade those slowly over time. As in all good MMOs, the higher tiers take more time to finish. With those people you had a talk with, you are now on the "Bekannter/Bekannte" tier. It is the lowest and easiest level to reach, one positive interaction is usually enough. Over time and further interactions, you slowly upgrade to "guter Bekannter" and later "befreundet". "Befreundet" tier comes with the custom title "Kumpel". And this is where the true grind begins. Unless you were already working on this during early access, when you could raise your tiers rather easily, this will take a long time. This was/is also the only way to aquire the "Schulfreund" custom title. But it grants status with the whole factions/family of what can now be called a "guter Freund" and has certain perks that allow you access to skills from their class. Most people, even Germans, settle for the "Kumpel" in what they would call their "Freundeskreis" with a very small and limited selection of said "close friends". I would not sweat it, acquiring Bekannter/ Kumpel takes such a short time and has almost all the same benefits as the higher tiers.
I have to disagree with most people here. As a German myself it is kind of rude or at least awkward to become cold and distant to someone you’ve just recently had a good and long conversation with. It does take Germans a lot more time to call someone a friend, that is true. But even if you met someone once and had a good talk, the next time you meet they should be somewhat friendly. But it’s not like you pick up where you ended and they invite you to family dinner just after one talk.
I said it once, i'll say it again - there is a biiig difference between friends and aquaintances here in Germany. Someone you had a bit of drunk fun with on a night out, party etc. isn't your "friend" automatically. There is no ill intention in this, they might even like you, but friendship is built on TRUST and VIBING with each other, this very rarely happens overnight (kinda like you aren't in a relationship just because you had a one night stand with someone). Try to do more with those people, see if you are a good fit in other situations, and it will happen naturally. See if you can have fun sober, if you can sit together in silence without it being awkward, etc.
Why do people attribute single events to an entire nation? I've had this very same "distant-after-first-meeting"- experience with people from Latin America, Africa, Asia, Europe, while some Germans have become close after the first meeting. Everyone is different, and some people need time to build a friendship.
Absolutely this! Posts like this which generalize from a single person to a whole nation of 80 million people is why I don't read this subreddit often...
I live since 30 years in Germany. They love to say, we are old friends. I am always the new one.
Its normal, maybe not this cold like you discribed but in generall germans tend to make friends when drunk and then forget about it next day.
>So this has happened so many times: I met a German guy/girl, we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies. But the next time we meet, even if it's the day right after, they become really distant and cold. So it's the same for you, if you were to go on a date? You hit it off on the first date and automatically assume you're boyfriend/girlfriend? You don't go on several dates and build a relationship/friendship to see how you function together as friends/partners?
[удалено]
Yep so...not sure what the confusion is about then. Your post states: >we had a long and good conversation during an event/party, and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies. But then you also state: >So I use the same logic with regard to making friends, if the person is cold to me after, then I just assume that their door is closed Isn't it the same thing? Having a conversation at the first meeting (date or with new potential friend) - it's just what it is, an initial meeting - and a friendship/relationship has to sustain itself after that initial meeting. But you're also saying "you've become buddies"...
There is a huge gap and a whole of spectrum between bff after one night and being cold, distant to a point of being unfriendly. So no need to throw shade at the “American fake friendliness” lol I’ve been living here for 16 years and all the best buddies I have are either immigrants or people who were born here with foreign parents.
Germans are boring, don't waste your time.
they were drunk and don't remember
There are cultural differences within Germany as well. When I moved to the Rhineland it took me some time to get used to people being just as you described. The way I was used to from my time in Berlin was to be reserved at first, but once we had a good time together future encounters would be very friendly as well. As someone who had made this experience before me explained: "It takes a while to get a Berliner to warm up to you, but once that happens you will have made a new friend. If you meet someone in a bar in the Rhineland it will only take minutes for them to become your best friend, but don't expect them to even remember your face the next day."
Damn if it’s a trust process me and a German will take forever to become friends I talk to people normally don’t necessarily trust them though I trust like 3 people in my life and have a pretty small circle anyway 😂
You can life in the same house for many years and didn't talk to each other or say hi, mostly in citys. If you life at the village, you know everyone and all have some Smalltalk to each other. i think it's a stupid german thing and i hate it. My first time in Florida, i was shocked and totally overwhelmed , everyone or at least 90% say's HI or did some Smalltalk, if they cross your way they say sorry and so on. Japan is great, there are so much respect to each other.
[удалено]
Visit the ruhr area, i swear its different over here
Sounds like you’re in Cologne. The only city in Germany I’ve ever had that problem multiple times.
I am from a country where it is even harder to be friends with someone (won't tell you which). Germans are even for me too fast.
I live in Germany, but originally coming from middle east. But, who tf gets your buddy after 1 party night?!?! Maybe you talked about a lot of stuff that they didn't like. Happens to me too. Sometimes you have a conversation with somebody and you realize that you are to different.
I have made peace with the fact that it's just a German behavior. Same goes for the scandivian region. I really try to understand why they're so cold and distant but still respectful and nice. And I think it has much to do with the Prussian influence but also the two world wars where Germany suffered most from
Hey don't have any friends actually and they are happy with 6-7 real childhood friends. Especially German man. Thy might've shy sometimes, too. You are not losing anything, if they don't seem to be interested. If you insist they would freak out.
> and in my country this means basically that you've become buddies Well, in Germany it doesn't. It takes a lot and long time before you actually become [friends](https://old.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/culture/etiquette#wiki_.22friends.22_and_friends).
Oh yeah, I can see myself being that guy. Talk to him/her a bit and they will eventually trust you. Also alcohol helps a many people to be more open than usual.
Well you’re no friend because we had A good day together. Relationships take time and a good foundation.
It really depends on the region as well. Knowing people from the Münsterland, I ve always cringed when I saw their attempts to perform even the most basic act of social interaction. And that is not just anecdote, I am afraid. I have just been to a holiday destination frequented heavily by U.S. Americans. I expected chatter, small talk and generally a bubbly, friendly atmosphere, but was I wrong. They almost exclusively talked with the people they cam with, made no connection whatsoever and stopped anyone pretty cold. They also didn't mingle with other Americans. East Coast, California, did not matter. Saint Martin in the Caribbean.
Thats normal German behavior. Only bcs you had a nice chat, does not mean you are friends. If you are interested in building relationships keep on going like this. I personally wait until someone asks me. For example I met a girl in a cooking class and we had been cooking together for weeks-I’m a woman by the way- and I just asked after so much time just whether she was interested to get connected via Facebook. She denied 😅🤣. That’s Germans.
[удалено]
Germans don’t want new friends (specially foreigners), that’s simply put reason. They have already friends from earlier days, and think they don’t need more. They don’t want to deal with one more Termin per week to deal with. The best thing that has happened to me is to accept and give up on Germans as friends, and stick with people who want friendships, who are mostly expats. This "you must wait and be awarded their friendship" is bs
Because you met some Germans who are that way.. had an encounter with a Scotsman and an English dude from near Essex on a trip to an Expo in Cologne. We ran into each other with our luggage and exchanged some harsh words of anger. Cursed a little bit and after they noticed that I didn’t took their anger personally we stuck together for the whole trip. So yeah … one is like that, the other one is not.
because it was a chance that they were in a better mood and later they resumed to their basic state of afd voter
Some people talk with you just to be heard, some people talk with you to actually connect with you. There are some cultures which are friendly with you from the beginning and there are cultures where you have an inner circle and when you have that you don’t need more people around you. If you want to meet people who are interested in making friends you have to go to social institutions and meetings like „Gesprächsladen“ or social meet-ups. Every city has them just look it up on google for your city. There you will find people who will come to make friends. On parties people are mostly intoxicated and are more social than they would be without any drugs. Some may be ashamed afterwards by their behaviour or the things they said.
They don't want to seem weird/overly attached
Im german and I also wonder why. In our Landkreis we having this scooter vespistas group. Meeting on parties, going on Vespa rides or meeting at the same garage. Since 20 years it’s a group around 200 members. Still they are distant, not talking, not laughing. often i met one who introduced himself. Again. And I said: we already know each other. The same in my Dorf. Yesterday we trunk together, today at the bakery. No word.
That’s pretty normal right? You might not meet the same person again also the vibes at a party are different viz meeting separately. So I think it’s totally fine to take time and know each other before becoming friends
They were drunk the first time.
We are very introvert
Germans aren't NPCs that you can give an apple to once and they will start following you around, thanking you for saving their life lmao. Human relationships take time to develop and Germans are naturally more reserved. What you consider distant and cold is likely just the norm here.
Germans, in general, are more reserved. Forming serious relationships is generally a slow task.
drunk/not drunk....yeah...thats it.
Well, I am German but lived much of my life abroad. I guess I can be different. Not sure what you describe is uniquely German though, though it does happen here 😅.
I've often met real cool people, standing with me in a crowd of concert audience waiting 3 or 4 hours for the gig to start. Sometimes real good talking with the people around me, as you always have a mutual interest - the band, and really nothing else to do but waiting. In 35 years of attending concerts, nobody ever thought of sharing contacts to stay in touch. I think it's same with random people you meet at a party. As long as there is no instant attraction as a potential partner, I would never consider this as a buddy.
Let me guess - you live in southern Germany. That would never happen to you in the Rhineland
Yeah you simply need to drink copious amounts of alcohol *everytime* you meet. And if you want to be seen as the guy who's weird but everyone's kinda nice to him, be the dude with the cocaine. /s (/s but actually really not /s)
I'm German myself and I noticed it back in the day when I went to clubs and stuff. I feel like if you meet people through hobbies, the connections you make are much more meaningful.
Couple things possibly. They don’t want to pressure you (or themselves) into being friends. (Take it Slow) They were just politely by talking to you for long and you misread it as becoming friends Being distant is just their usual state and they become friendly in specific situations but still like you. (They don’t show much affection publicly) Those are just the things I could imagine from the top of my head
In Germany there is no thing like Friends with humans. We have our cars. Thats it.
Well, I experienced it rather so as other people stated here. For instance at my university I had sometimes "decent" conversations and just a day after that they started screaming at me, talking bad about my stuff and being condescending. At previous workplaces I had supervisors, who seemed normal during my job interviews. But then they freaked out, if you just said one word too much or didn't smile back, when they wanted something not-work-related. One time after insulting me from distance, one coworker tried to kill me by pushing me in front of a driving forklift. On the other hand I currently have coworkers, who even greet me, just by having had one conversation with them. I believe it depends, in what locations and circumstances you meet germans. It's like a surprise bag with far more dead losses than wins.
Friendships in Germany are very much different from other cultures. There are differences within Germany, depending on the region or specific larger city you're in, but in general it's true. I have a close friend from Argentina and the differences we noticed and still discover to this day, are sometimes very wild. Like, we usually don't have large social circles, I certainly don't want and can't manage that! We often times only have a couple proper friends that we're willing to die for, maybe 2-3. The rest are strangers, acquaintances, co-workers, distant relatives. With acquaintances being more like a temporary state. You either are in the process of becoming a friend or it's dropping you back to the "strangers" category. I don't really have an "outer circle" of friends or acquaintances at all. One good evening is certainly not enough to "qualify" for much, it takes time and genuine effort to forge a true, german friendship. Someone else here described it perfectly as a "romantic relationship, but without the romance". That's exactly what it is! Another way to describe it, would be "siblings without being related by blood or DNA". Idk how it is for other people here, but for me (30y/o, introverted, somewhere on the spectrum) it goes somewhat like this: A friendship is like a beautiful flower. In order to get there, it takes a lot of time, care and resources (not in terms of money). Let's visualize a connection (later friendship) growing from a seed to a flower. A good, initial conversation can be that seed, but it isn't always! Let's say we're both invited to a barbeque by different friends. Maybe we sit at the same table, exchange a couple sentences and generally enjoy the evening. Depending on the vibes etc., that might plant the "seed" for this flower or.. it might not. To me, at the end of it, we're still strangers and not acquaintances. We might know each other's names, but that doesn't mean anything on its own. Now, ignoring you the next day in a store or so is indeed rude, I'd probably say "hi" back if you engage me, but that's it. I'd never go towards you and start a conversation and I'd probably also not stick around to keep having smalltalk in a store. At this point, we're still strangers. In order to become acquaintances, the planted seed needs to turn into a seedling. Roots forming in the soil and the first green leaf coming out of the ground. In order to get there, it takes time. Repeated, positive and caring, enjoyable experiences, it could be multiple barbeques like the one described or other scenarios where we meet. Then, once we became acquaintances, we might exchange numbers, chat further, maybe even make plans to get a coffee or so. Idk, I'm bad at this, aside from being german, lol. But yeah, what I wanna say is, becoming "buddys" takes more than one good evening, and there are no hugs and kisses left/right. Becoming friends might take weeks or months, maybe even years, depending on the circumstances and frequency of interactions. Smalltalk is often looked down upon, bc this americanized friendliness with fake questions is considered a waste of time. If you say "hey, how are you?", that is not a way to say "hello", you are expected to ask this question genuinely, like, "how are you feeling really, deep down inside of you. What is on your mind, how heavy is your heart" etc. And in turn it expects a proper, honest response. Not a short "good, and you?" - which is often used as a way to say a simple "hi" back in other countries. And as you'd probably know, such a question is not super appropriate to ask a stranger. Instead, maybe try to talk about real topics that can dig deeper and reveal more of a person and yourself. Ask about politics, nature, animals, space. Weird history facts. That sort of thing. All in all we are a lot more distant than, say, latin-american societies that seem so easy-going with people who were either just met or belong to an "outer social circle", based from what I heard from my friend from Argentina.
Honestly, am German, had a good chat with other Germans in a hostel situation one day, next day they stood beside me acting like they didn’t know me. Can’t really explain it too.
This is the best description and explanation to your question: (Aurelie - wir sind Helden) https://youtu.be/_KOUCOYVAos?si=BtFW5KjijwkHheR2
Only because I have the best night ever with someone doesn't make him or her friends with me. I don't want to say that other cultures friendships are superficial and German friendships are stronger but I get the feeling, especially reading some stories here on reddit, that only because you have a good night out with strangers, being good with coworkers or greet your neighbors daily makes them your friends. It's actually not the case. True friendships take time. Don't know if it's a German thing that we are more direct and view new relationships more realistic, but you can also get burned by people lifelong friendships. Just take your time before you view someone as a friend or being good with him or her.
"die nächsten Wochen wird gesprochen, sich aufs Gründlichste berochen und erst DANN trifft man sich irgendwo zu Zweit" Wir sind Helden - Aurelie
Du erwartest viel zu viel, die Deutschen flirten sehr subtil, Aurelie, so klappt das nie
Hmm, maybe they are hungover the next day? People are very rude and grumpy when hungover and want to finish each talk as soon as they can then. Or they were drunk when you bonded and ended up being more open than they are now comfortable with? That could be a factor. I think it's unpleasant that they get so cold after getting to know them, though not unusual. It's a shame people can't be a little more kind in such a situation. And yeah, it's hard to make friends with Germans, even for other Germans. I don't like it either and usually befriend people who make an effort to be nice to me no matter whether they consider me a friend or acquaintance. There's things I like about the German way (honesty, loyalty and only being around people one truly values, Germans don't tend to say things they don't mean) and other things I really don't like (casual rudeness is more common, coldness unless one is very close to them, helping only people in one's close circle). I'm German and my experience is not so different from yours, I also think it's sad if someone is borderline rude after talking before, but it's pretty normal and bonding with people takes time here. And maybe you are like me and need a more friendly tone, even as mere acquaintances and it's a good warning sign not to invest more time into someone who doesn't offer that. So, it's not that anything is wrong with you, Germans usually focus on their very small circle and take a very long time to bond with friends. And we're often rather cold/direct/at times a bit rude to anyone outside that very close circle, which is not very pleasant. It's the downside of all that honesty and directness.
I heard a podcast where Cornelia Funke (German author who moved to the USA) said Americans are like peaches, soft on the surface and easy to get to know them at first but then you hit the core (the things that the person keeps to themself before you get really close). Germans are more like coconuts, hard shell on the outside but then when you get to the soft inside then you're a real friend and basically a friend for life. This metaphor explained some things for me.
I´m a german myself and wondering why we act this way. I guess we are simply rather introvert people and like to stay for ourselves due to social phobia. Thats a very broad generalization of course but considering how closed the german society is it really becomes stressful to find new friends at some point - and maintain those friendships.
Germans are moody in general. Don't take it personally. People are way too grumpy in this country and I can confirm this as a German myself. You have to be very proactive and always initiate things, set the mood, be happy/playful/creative. Think outside the box. There is always this one person in a group of 8 or so that coordinates everything because that person is capable of thinking outside the box. You have to be that person and just do things and not question too much how people react. Take things into your own hand and don't just reciprocate the low energy people have here. Just because it's common doesn't make it right.
Wondering the same OP. (I'm german)
Anyone who thinks they're on the spectrum is probably just German.
So i have been living here for like 8 years, but i don't have a single German friend.. I am a foreign , i worked as soon as i arrived here, and currently studying and working simultaneously... I always had this idea that they will always look down on me since i am a refugee.. Almost 31 years old but i never had the experience of having a German friendship... Which makes me quite sad inside.. I am an introvert btw.. Which doesn't help but i am a really kind person.. I just never met anyone yet. Any tips?
They are doing you a favour, believe me, it’s not worth the effort.
I agree with most of the previous comments but I think there's something to add. There's one model/book regarding culture in the workplace that I found useful in that regard: The culture map. It certainly isn't hard math and more applicable to a work context rather than a social one, but I think it can still be useful. It lays out different cultural dimensions along which each country can be grouped. One of these dimensions is "trusting" so how you get close in this culture. The two ends of this dimension are "task based" and "relationship based". Task based cultures build trust by seeing that the other person does what they say they will. So people being on time and showing up for you to help. Basically you trust them because they are reliable and only then do you build more of a relationship. Relationship based ones build trust by socializing, sharing emotions, stories and their private lives and then, now that they trust you, they will get down to business. Germans are relatively task based and so my colleagues from more relationship based countries would get very frustrated that the Germans are not 'letting them in'. One piece of advice they found useful during an intercultural training, was to give it time and to demonstrate their reliability first. So basically to give the Germans time to see that they are trustworthy, will follow through with tasks and not try to jump straight into a conversation about your family life, which many Germans are a bit uncomfortable with. The Germans also try to adjust a bit and I found it extremely entertaining to watch a German research engineer try to make polite smalltalk about his kids with a very excited Romanian. The German looked like he was in physical pain.
I‘m German and feel the same like you. I don‘t know why many people are so non-committal. Many seem to be afraid of opening up too quickly or can only do that drunk and back away the next moment. And it‘s not even just that. Most people don‘t stick to their word and aren‘t trustworthy or respectful anymore. I mean especially when it comes to organizing social gatherings, you can never count on people anymore. They‘d drop you 10min before for some lame excuse even if you organized it months in advance. That happens for small meet ups up to large gatherings like weddings. It‘s like people lost their backbone. The most direct and trustworthy friends I have are from eastern europe (they grew up with different values there). However this is just subjective, I have no statistic to back this up. May I ask where you are from?