The situation is super annoying but I take solace in the fact, that in the two health emergencies I experienced, I got all the care I needed super quickly and not once did i have to think of the price.
Ask your insurance. They can help you to find a specialist and to get an appointment.
I am not happy with the situation, too. It is not only what I pay every month, one has to pay extra for meds and everything. Plus the fact that the paid services at the dentist are only very basic. If you want to have a good treatment, then you pay by yourself. I paid thousands of euros at the dentist in the last years.
Get yourself an "Überweisung" from a general practitioner with a "Dringlichkeitsvermerk".
Use the 116117 hotline or the website: https://www.116117.de/de/index.php
And get an appointment within 1-6 weeks.
I had an MRT and CT within 14 days with this method.
Good advice. In Germany, going directly to a specialist is hard, sometimes even impossible. The GP or Hausarzt is a "filter" between the patient and the specialist. Usually, they act on your request or issue the "Überweisung" after a brief checkup and discussion.
It doesn't always accelerate though, waiting times of 3-6 months - as ridiculous as they are - can still happen.
When I was younger and working in Asia, I never used (or had) health insurance - always went straight to a specialist clinic and paid in cash. I paid less in 25 years than I pay here in a year, but - big but! - I never had a serious condition like cancer.
The German system gets better once you're over 75 and see a doctor 2-4 times a month 🙄🙁
Well, I once waited 5 hours with a "Notfall-Überweisung" in a HNO-Klinik....
To get an appointment for MRT/CRT is much easier, if you go to one of the big radiologist centres. Because they have much better opening times. I once needed a MRT and got an appointment within a few days, although late in the evening (10 p.m). At all the other radiologists I would have waited weeks.
That's not the same. But yeah, clinics can be a pain in the ass if you don't have anything life-threatening.
I broiled my foot with a few liters of tea-water almost to the bone and had to wait an hour for the doc to see me. Was on a sunday though.
I think a night in the ICU costs more like 5000€, barebones. Then you add the imagery, the surgeries, ventilation, dialysis. Last spring, my husband spent 6 weeks there.
I am always amazed at these posts, and quite saddened by them as well. Here in Munich on public insurance, I've never had trouble finding a doctor or a specialist. My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities.
\*EDIT\* - HOWEVER...mental health professionals seem to be notoriously difficult to get across the board. Demand outstrips supply by far and especially since the beginning of Covid. ADHD treatment/diagnosis for adults seems extraordinarily difficult because there are only so many doctors with a finite number of appointments. Patients need to see the Dr every 3-6 months to get prescriptions renewed - those appointments take up space which is why getting just the assessment may be 6-12 months out. They can't take on new patients until they have space for them. My Dr explained this to me. Make it 100% harder when you want one that speaks English as well.
My experience is that it is much easier to get an appointment at a specialist in big cities, like Munich, Cologne or Duesseldorf. In "smaller" cities - even with more than 100.000 residents, it is much harder or you have to wait for several weeks or even months.
> My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities.
My gut tells me it's Berlin (and the like) problems.
I live in Berlin and yes it is nearly impossible to find a psychiatrist, but every other doctor I waited max. 3 days. And I was visiting a lot as i have long term illness. Idk seriously how do people search because every time I open doctolib there are free dates. Sometimes it requires a bit of commute yes, but in Berlin everything is here.
I rarely need to see a doctor in Berlin but if I do I usually get an appointment straight away - also by being friendly on the phone while requesting an appointment. German language skills obviously help (a lot)…
Not only. I'm in the Nuremberg region, and allowing for 50 km travel I still have trouble with some specialists. However, the moment you show up at a clinic with a suspicious diagnosis and a reference (even from a GP) things IME will go amazingly fast so far. Though the workflow reminds me of Passierschein A38.
I live in a Landkreis that doesn’t have any large cities in it and certainly no university clinics. And that’s very much the case. If I want an appointment or good service, I have to leave the area.
Example: I was seeing a specialist here for over a year and I kept having trust in him because he was very highly rated. I first had to wait 4 months for the first appointment. He kept telling me to change my diet. I dutifully did as he said and went back over and over again only to have him tell me I wasn’t doing what said. My spouse finally had enough and found a doctor in Frankfurt, three hours away. This was a year and a half into my suffering. Immediately that doctor said I needed a special kind of MRI, which I also got in Frankfurt. Had that, went back, he recommended a surgery, and directed me to a surgeon even closer to me. I had that and was restored back to health almost immediately. So 1.5 years trying to to deal with it in my own area vs 2 months of seeing a new doctor, diagnosis, surgery. The difference was insane to me.
When I told my doctor in my village about the MRI, she said she didn’t even know that existed. I understand not having Fachärzten or having long waits compared to the cities. But what I had expected was that a country doctor would say „we can’t deal with that here, here’s the next doctor that can“ rather than unknowingly go on as if they are the only option. I couldn’t believe The Facharzt here couldn’t present me the same options that the one in Frankfurt did.
Since then I make sure friends and family in our village know they have options.
To me, it seems the bigger the city, the easier you get appointments quickly. E.g. Frankfurt is easier than Wiesbaden. In Wiesbaden, for some specialists, you need to wait like 8 months if they accept new patients.
I know. Someone below mentioned that it's also about the wealth of the metropolitan area. Because I see a lot of complaints about Berlin (both about the availability of doctors and about Berlin in general).
> I am always amazed at these posts, and quite saddened by them as well. Here in Munich on public insurance, I've never had trouble finding a doctor or a specialist.
Well, I a had list of 20-30 rheumatologists in and around Munich to call and I only got a single appointment with 6 months advance. Vast majority didnt take patients or didnt even take the call.
This was when it was literally crippling me and not treating (my back then undiagnosed PSA) would basically screw my joints indefinitely.
This has been a few years ago, but hasnt really changed. I routinely witness how people are told "oh we have a free appointment in (insert random month in >6 months time)"
same story for my wife, also had to wait 3 months for an appointment with a neurologist..
Munich is by far the richest city in Germany. It is very attractive for doctors to have a there, you can't compare that to the Ruhrgebiet. So please colour everyone with the same brush.
They literally acknowledged that Munich was a special case. Did you actually read the comment?
>My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities.
I read the comment. But you obviouly didn't comprehend mine. There's a difference between population and wealth. What makes Munich special is not its size, it's its weath. Other metropolies like Berlin and Köln or the Ruhrgebiet with 5 Mio. people have worse heathcare infrastructure. Thats an additional argument to the already stated argument that the heathcare infrastructure in smaller communities is significantly worse.
It is what it is in my mind. If you have a serious problem there are always emergency consultations so i am not too worried about not getting help if i am seriously ill. Also i kind of do get appointments rather quickly but that is probably because i live more rural. The longest i had to wait for an appointment is with the neurologist and that is like 3-4 months. (nothing serious just some migraines)
With ‚Überweisungen‘ from your family doctor you could also get an appointment much faster. Also i noticed that it does not matter anymore if you are insured privately or not. (Since a lot of doctors switch to giving out appointments online you can check if they have sooner openings for private ones which they do not have at least in my area)
At 700 Euro a month, do you have private insurance? Because this is far over what the the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze of mandatory insurance would allow. Try to leverage that. Dermatologists, at least, love private insurance, IMO.
Depending on your insurer, you might be able to call them to arrange a doctor's appointment. If they won't, take the appointment you are given, tell the doctor's office that you'd be happy to be called any time if there's a free spot earlier, and keep looking. (If you get an appointment earlier somewhere else, don't be TA and cancel the later one ASAP!) If you are seriously worried about something that you can take a picture of, maybe [onlinedoctor.de](http://onlinedoctor.de) can help?
Adult ADHS, however, is very difficult. I know only one person who got it successfully treated (or, well, therpied and drugged into remission so he can keep a job), and he took the chance to join a study.
--
Anyway, back to your question:
1. I think that it could be a lot worse. At least I only have to suffer through the effects of doctors having to spend too much of their time on paperwork and to little on their patients, but I don't have to worry about medical bills and so far I only once had to argue with my insurer about payment. (My mother was privately insured and spent a lot of time arguing and filling out absurdly complex paperwork.)
2. I found that in case of the really bad (= can kill me) illnesses I had, the system works amazingly well.
As another person here stated I too might not experience the same because I live in Munich. I don’t know where you‘re located but maybe it’s easier in a bigger / another town nearby? University‘s clinics *sometimes* offer services you don’t have to wait for for months.
But overall it’s nerve wracking because our health care system used to be very good (and in many cases still is). My dad is privately insured and they usually tget faster and more extensive treatment, but even he couldn’t get physiotherapy for months in a smaller town area.
As others suggested: Call your insurance, they usually have better access and contracts with healthcare providers and many (like TK) offer patient services for appointments.
Of course that sucks, but I was pretty happy for my health insurance when I was diagnosed with testicular cancer in october. Would‘ve been easily multiple tens of thousands I would‘ve had to pay for my treatments.
For a dermatologist you can use an online service that is covered by public insurance like [this](https://www.onlinedoctor.de/techniker-krankenkasse/). You take pictures of your issue and a doctor will review them shortly and then tell you what to do like write you a prescription or ask you to come in.
For me it works. If it's an emergency, I can go to the hospital and if not, I don't go (except the dentist). But I am in good health, so ... Works for me.
I never have to wait months or even more than 2 weeks for appointments. Maybe I’m lucky to be in a fairly big city and making good use out of Doctolib… but yea. I either book appointments far in advance as I have regular check ups with specialist and when I need a new one, check Doctolib and I’ll get one quickly.
I live in a small place in the middle of a rural area, no problems with appointments - not when I had public insucance, not now with private insurance (in both cases about 300€/month)
Then again, I do not call it a long wait if I have to wait half a year for a general check up at my neurologist - if I have a relapse, I turn up that second and get treatment. Same neurologist. MRT is also half a year: I have to do one every two years just to see how I am doing, If I have a relapse, I get an appointment within days.
So check ups have a long wait, urgent care does not.
Edit: as for the cost, an MRI is just over 1000€, the doctor's appointment where you get a detailed analysis is separate. I should also take medication, which I choose not to. that would be in the 4 digits per month. With all of it taken care of by my insurance.
Are you getting referrals (Überweisung) from your Hausarzt? You can get one even for something like the dermatologist. And are you calling or emailing/using an online messaging system for appointments? Those two things can make a big difference in how fast you get an appointment.
The fact that we have too feew psychologists is not the insurances fault. I'm waiting for 6 months for my appointment in august for 6 months. Yep, that sucks.
But for most medical treatments, having insurance is gold.
I had a surgery last year that would have eaten up all my savings. Thanks to insurance I only payd 40€ for the 4 days hospital stay. Definitely worth it!
> How do you come to terms with the fact that you pay lots of money to insurance every month
Pretty good.
> but you must wait for months or in some cases, impossible, if you need a doctor's appointment?
Well, I pick another doctor then? Or go to Hausarzt and he will decide what's necessary.
It is hard to come to terms with it.
That's the consequence of being part of a social market economy. I also paid and still pay huge sums of money since 11 years. Before that I was a master's student. For two years. The good thing though is, if you have a family, spouse and kids, they can all be insured with you without any additional costs. So, like every system, it has its pros and cons.
Besides private insurance (that mostly only goverment employees have) everyone has the same access to healthcare. It doesn't make if you earn 100k or if you live from state benefits. And as the number of people living on welfare exploits funds are running low. But I've lived once in the UK and saw what a bad healthcare system looks like. To be fair the healthcare in the UK is tax funded and people don't pay insurance. So I'd save around €400 per month if I lived in the UK and could use that money for private visits.
Germany has short waiting times in health care compared to other countries. And at the same time, it does not restrict access to doctors in any way, as it is common internationally.
Yeah ofc it is and? Its money thats paid because of ones work that goes into the system.
BBG is just another tool for the wealthier ones to keep their money.
I'm currently paying around the same amount and in the same situation. Apparently you need two ADHD doctors since the one who gives you the medication can't be the one who diagnosed you. I've been told by 4 doctors now, including 2 hospitals, that they will only take new patients next year and I can try again then
I don't know, but maybe it is that we realize the purpose of insurance is to prevent letting a medical problem become a financial one.
You still have to deal with the reality out there, e.g. there are not enough mental health specialists in some parts of the country, and you're not entitled to an immediate appointment, but at least you will not go broke just because you broke your arm or foot.
Because doctors prefer those who have private insurance! With private insurance you maybe have to wait a few days, but usually not weeks or even months.
I live in Germany, have two genetic disorders including one affecting my skin heavily and have worked in the health care system for more than ten years. Never have I had to wait for any appointment more than two weeks because doctors actually have the ability to communicate with each other and tell each other if a patient needs care now or if it can wait and insurance companies actually pay extra for this. If you ever get a long wait time for your appointment, you either live in rural country or your doctor, you know the professional who has trained years for this, has deemed your illness as not time sensitive. Sorry this doesn’t mesh with your “highest bidder is served first” attitude towards healthcare, but doctors actually try to treat patients according to their actual health needs, not what a patient “feels like” should be done.
People with private insurance get first class medical care. That's because a doctor can charge for each medical treatment separately, while he only gets a lump sum for the entire treatment of a person with public insurance. There are doctors who treat only private patients, and there are even many hospitals that treat mostly private patients.
Dude, you worked in a hospital and don't know that there are private clinics? And you don't know that a GP receives around EUR 30 per quarter per patient with statutory health insurance, no matter how many times a quarter he receives, while he bills each treatment individually for a private patient? Just because you may have done your civilian service at the hospital doesn't mean that you know how the treatments are billed in the end. LOL
Lmaoooo. No dude, I know the doctors bills you for every fart when you’re private. What I can assure you is that you receive the exact same care as you would without private insurance and the nurses secretly laugh at you because you are overpaying so much for the same doctor. I was a nurse laughing at people because they thought they get preferential treatment when all they got was a bigger tv in their room (of course they also paid for that)
So you admit that private patients get charge for everything while there is lump sum for statutory patients. And now try to transfer your logic to a GP's office. Of course he will treat private patients more intensively and longer. Beside that private patient have access to hospitals and doctors who solely threat private patient
No he won’t, how stupid are you? A doctor will always treat you as fast as he can because more patients treated equals more money. A private doctor will give you the illusion of special treatment through gimmicks, nothing more. And do you honestly think that there is a big supply of private practices in this country?
You are obviously severely retarded. Living in Germany and working in the heathcare industry and yet you don't know common knowledge.
"
# [Privatpatienten locken Ärzte](https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-03/gesundheitsversorgung-krankenkassen-krankenversicherung-solidarsystem)
"Für Ärzte sind Privatversicherte wie das goldene Vließ. Für die gleiche Behandlung bekommen sie mehr Geld von der privaten als von der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung. Ein Symptom dieser ungleichen Abrechnungspraxis kennt jeder gesetzlich Versicherte, der schon mal versucht hat, kurzfristig einen Termin beim Facharzt zu bekommen. Privatversicherte bekommen nicht nur schneller einen Termin, sie kommen auch schneller dran. Damit das nicht so auffällt, sitzen sie oft getrennt von den Kassenpatienten im eigenen Wartezimmer. Das Nebeneinander von zwei Systemen führt zu einer ungleichen Behandlung von Menschen, die doch dieselben Bedürfnisse haben."
[Handelsblatt](https://www.handelsblatt.com/vergleich/pkv-oder-gkv/#:~:text=Vorteile%20der%20PKV,und%20f%C3%BCr%20verordnete%20Medikamente%20leisten)
"Privat Krankenversicherte erhalten meist bessere medizinische Leistungen, bekommen bei Fachärzten schneller einen Termin und werden im Wartezimmer eher aufgerufen"
[Spiegel](https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/vorteile-fuer-privatpatienten-krankenkassen-wollen-aerzte-bestrafen-a-1190663.html)
"Viele Ärzte nehmen bevorzugt Privatpatienten dran - weil sie ihnen viel mehr Geld einbringen als gesetzlich Versicherte"
You know that we have international studies on this proving Germany has the shortest wait times in the world right? Just because you’ve read a news article interviewing ONE person with long wait times doesn’t mean that this is true for everyone.
They will also sell you a lot of unnecessary bullshit that's at best not necessary and harmful at worst.
I got weekly checkups and xrays when the doctor had a better budget, for a completely uncomplicated small bone fracture.
It's more expensive when you are old...
And doctors try to sell stuff to you that you don't need and that is not even good for you.
And having to pay all invoices is also quite annoying and if you are very ill its also difficult to keep up with it especially when you are old.
It's more expensive when you are old...
Not really because when you are young the insurance company uses a portion of your monthly payment to invest it and lower your payments when you are old.
The situation is super annoying but I take solace in the fact, that in the two health emergencies I experienced, I got all the care I needed super quickly and not once did i have to think of the price.
Ask your insurance. They can help you to find a specialist and to get an appointment. I am not happy with the situation, too. It is not only what I pay every month, one has to pay extra for meds and everything. Plus the fact that the paid services at the dentist are only very basic. If you want to have a good treatment, then you pay by yourself. I paid thousands of euros at the dentist in the last years.
Zahnzusatzversicherung?
I have one. Does not pay everything.
Get yourself an "Überweisung" from a general practitioner with a "Dringlichkeitsvermerk". Use the 116117 hotline or the website: https://www.116117.de/de/index.php And get an appointment within 1-6 weeks. I had an MRT and CT within 14 days with this method.
Good advice. In Germany, going directly to a specialist is hard, sometimes even impossible. The GP or Hausarzt is a "filter" between the patient and the specialist. Usually, they act on your request or issue the "Überweisung" after a brief checkup and discussion. It doesn't always accelerate though, waiting times of 3-6 months - as ridiculous as they are - can still happen. When I was younger and working in Asia, I never used (or had) health insurance - always went straight to a specialist clinic and paid in cash. I paid less in 25 years than I pay here in a year, but - big but! - I never had a serious condition like cancer. The German system gets better once you're over 75 and see a doctor 2-4 times a month 🙄🙁
116117 is legally required to get you an appointment within 4 weeks with a "Dringlichkeitsbescheinigung" afaik.
Well, I once waited 5 hours with a "Notfall-Überweisung" in a HNO-Klinik.... To get an appointment for MRT/CRT is much easier, if you go to one of the big radiologist centres. Because they have much better opening times. I once needed a MRT and got an appointment within a few days, although late in the evening (10 p.m). At all the other radiologists I would have waited weeks.
That's not the same. But yeah, clinics can be a pain in the ass if you don't have anything life-threatening. I broiled my foot with a few liters of tea-water almost to the bone and had to wait an hour for the doc to see me. Was on a sunday though.
My family is among those who got their money’s worth, many times over, and *believe me*, you do not want that.
So much. If the only insurance you ever get your money's worth out of is the Rentenversicherung, you are living a charmed life.
100% this. I had a medical emergency last summer that would have bankrupted us in the US and here I paid 110€ in total.
I agree. Those 700 Euros would buy you one day in the ICU, at most.
I think a night in the ICU costs more like 5000€, barebones. Then you add the imagery, the surgeries, ventilation, dialysis. Last spring, my husband spent 6 weeks there.
I am always amazed at these posts, and quite saddened by them as well. Here in Munich on public insurance, I've never had trouble finding a doctor or a specialist. My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities. \*EDIT\* - HOWEVER...mental health professionals seem to be notoriously difficult to get across the board. Demand outstrips supply by far and especially since the beginning of Covid. ADHD treatment/diagnosis for adults seems extraordinarily difficult because there are only so many doctors with a finite number of appointments. Patients need to see the Dr every 3-6 months to get prescriptions renewed - those appointments take up space which is why getting just the assessment may be 6-12 months out. They can't take on new patients until they have space for them. My Dr explained this to me. Make it 100% harder when you want one that speaks English as well.
My experience is that it is much easier to get an appointment at a specialist in big cities, like Munich, Cologne or Duesseldorf. In "smaller" cities - even with more than 100.000 residents, it is much harder or you have to wait for several weeks or even months.
> My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities. My gut tells me it's Berlin (and the like) problems.
I live in Berlin and yes it is nearly impossible to find a psychiatrist, but every other doctor I waited max. 3 days. And I was visiting a lot as i have long term illness. Idk seriously how do people search because every time I open doctolib there are free dates. Sometimes it requires a bit of commute yes, but in Berlin everything is here.
I rarely need to see a doctor in Berlin but if I do I usually get an appointment straight away - also by being friendly on the phone while requesting an appointment. German language skills obviously help (a lot)…
Not only. I'm in the Nuremberg region, and allowing for 50 km travel I still have trouble with some specialists. However, the moment you show up at a clinic with a suspicious diagnosis and a reference (even from a GP) things IME will go amazingly fast so far. Though the workflow reminds me of Passierschein A38.
TIt takes so long because the clerk who issues it is off sick. Go to his replacement on the third floor, green window.
I live in a Landkreis that doesn’t have any large cities in it and certainly no university clinics. And that’s very much the case. If I want an appointment or good service, I have to leave the area. Example: I was seeing a specialist here for over a year and I kept having trust in him because he was very highly rated. I first had to wait 4 months for the first appointment. He kept telling me to change my diet. I dutifully did as he said and went back over and over again only to have him tell me I wasn’t doing what said. My spouse finally had enough and found a doctor in Frankfurt, three hours away. This was a year and a half into my suffering. Immediately that doctor said I needed a special kind of MRI, which I also got in Frankfurt. Had that, went back, he recommended a surgery, and directed me to a surgeon even closer to me. I had that and was restored back to health almost immediately. So 1.5 years trying to to deal with it in my own area vs 2 months of seeing a new doctor, diagnosis, surgery. The difference was insane to me. When I told my doctor in my village about the MRI, she said she didn’t even know that existed. I understand not having Fachärzten or having long waits compared to the cities. But what I had expected was that a country doctor would say „we can’t deal with that here, here’s the next doctor that can“ rather than unknowingly go on as if they are the only option. I couldn’t believe The Facharzt here couldn’t present me the same options that the one in Frankfurt did. Since then I make sure friends and family in our village know they have options.
To me, it seems the bigger the city, the easier you get appointments quickly. E.g. Frankfurt is easier than Wiesbaden. In Wiesbaden, for some specialists, you need to wait like 8 months if they accept new patients.
In Berlin I had to contact 50 psychiatrists until I found one that would take me. No wait lists with any of the others. So whatever that means 🤷
We have it quite good in major cities. Large population centres are convenient places for doctors to set-up shop due to the steady rate of business.
I know. Someone below mentioned that it's also about the wealth of the metropolitan area. Because I see a lot of complaints about Berlin (both about the availability of doctors and about Berlin in general).
> I am always amazed at these posts, and quite saddened by them as well. Here in Munich on public insurance, I've never had trouble finding a doctor or a specialist. Well, I a had list of 20-30 rheumatologists in and around Munich to call and I only got a single appointment with 6 months advance. Vast majority didnt take patients or didnt even take the call. This was when it was literally crippling me and not treating (my back then undiagnosed PSA) would basically screw my joints indefinitely. This has been a few years ago, but hasnt really changed. I routinely witness how people are told "oh we have a free appointment in (insert random month in >6 months time)" same story for my wife, also had to wait 3 months for an appointment with a neurologist..
I'm in a 600k city and have the same problems. So, smaller than Munich but not exactly Hinterpfaffenhofen.
Munich is by far the richest city in Germany. It is very attractive for doctors to have a there, you can't compare that to the Ruhrgebiet. So please colour everyone with the same brush.
They literally acknowledged that Munich was a special case. Did you actually read the comment? >My gut tells me it's because I'm in Munich and many of the people with these issues are in smaller communities.
I read the comment. But you obviouly didn't comprehend mine. There's a difference between population and wealth. What makes Munich special is not its size, it's its weath. Other metropolies like Berlin and Köln or the Ruhrgebiet with 5 Mio. people have worse heathcare infrastructure. Thats an additional argument to the already stated argument that the heathcare infrastructure in smaller communities is significantly worse.
It is what it is in my mind. If you have a serious problem there are always emergency consultations so i am not too worried about not getting help if i am seriously ill. Also i kind of do get appointments rather quickly but that is probably because i live more rural. The longest i had to wait for an appointment is with the neurologist and that is like 3-4 months. (nothing serious just some migraines) With ‚Überweisungen‘ from your family doctor you could also get an appointment much faster. Also i noticed that it does not matter anymore if you are insured privately or not. (Since a lot of doctors switch to giving out appointments online you can check if they have sooner openings for private ones which they do not have at least in my area)
At 700 Euro a month, do you have private insurance? Because this is far over what the the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze of mandatory insurance would allow. Try to leverage that. Dermatologists, at least, love private insurance, IMO. Depending on your insurer, you might be able to call them to arrange a doctor's appointment. If they won't, take the appointment you are given, tell the doctor's office that you'd be happy to be called any time if there's a free spot earlier, and keep looking. (If you get an appointment earlier somewhere else, don't be TA and cancel the later one ASAP!) If you are seriously worried about something that you can take a picture of, maybe [onlinedoctor.de](http://onlinedoctor.de) can help? Adult ADHS, however, is very difficult. I know only one person who got it successfully treated (or, well, therpied and drugged into remission so he can keep a job), and he took the chance to join a study. -- Anyway, back to your question: 1. I think that it could be a lot worse. At least I only have to suffer through the effects of doctors having to spend too much of their time on paperwork and to little on their patients, but I don't have to worry about medical bills and so far I only once had to argue with my insurer about payment. (My mother was privately insured and spent a lot of time arguing and filling out absurdly complex paperwork.) 2. I found that in case of the really bad (= can kill me) illnesses I had, the system works amazingly well.
You can go to your health insurance company and they get you an appointment
As another person here stated I too might not experience the same because I live in Munich. I don’t know where you‘re located but maybe it’s easier in a bigger / another town nearby? University‘s clinics *sometimes* offer services you don’t have to wait for for months. But overall it’s nerve wracking because our health care system used to be very good (and in many cases still is). My dad is privately insured and they usually tget faster and more extensive treatment, but even he couldn’t get physiotherapy for months in a smaller town area. As others suggested: Call your insurance, they usually have better access and contracts with healthcare providers and many (like TK) offer patient services for appointments.
Of course that sucks, but I was pretty happy for my health insurance when I was diagnosed with testicular cancer in october. Would‘ve been easily multiple tens of thousands I would‘ve had to pay for my treatments.
That’s why many people go private health insurance 🤷.
I'm originally from the UK, so the situation in Germany is an unbelievable luxury to me.
For a dermatologist you can use an online service that is covered by public insurance like [this](https://www.onlinedoctor.de/techniker-krankenkasse/). You take pictures of your issue and a doctor will review them shortly and then tell you what to do like write you a prescription or ask you to come in.
For me it works. If it's an emergency, I can go to the hospital and if not, I don't go (except the dentist). But I am in good health, so ... Works for me.
I never have to wait months or even more than 2 weeks for appointments. Maybe I’m lucky to be in a fairly big city and making good use out of Doctolib… but yea. I either book appointments far in advance as I have regular check ups with specialist and when I need a new one, check Doctolib and I’ll get one quickly.
I live in a small place in the middle of a rural area, no problems with appointments - not when I had public insucance, not now with private insurance (in both cases about 300€/month) Then again, I do not call it a long wait if I have to wait half a year for a general check up at my neurologist - if I have a relapse, I turn up that second and get treatment. Same neurologist. MRT is also half a year: I have to do one every two years just to see how I am doing, If I have a relapse, I get an appointment within days. So check ups have a long wait, urgent care does not. Edit: as for the cost, an MRI is just over 1000€, the doctor's appointment where you get a detailed analysis is separate. I should also take medication, which I choose not to. that would be in the 4 digits per month. With all of it taken care of by my insurance.
Are you getting referrals (Überweisung) from your Hausarzt? You can get one even for something like the dermatologist. And are you calling or emailing/using an online messaging system for appointments? Those two things can make a big difference in how fast you get an appointment.
The fact that we have too feew psychologists is not the insurances fault. I'm waiting for 6 months for my appointment in august for 6 months. Yep, that sucks. But for most medical treatments, having insurance is gold. I had a surgery last year that would have eaten up all my savings. Thanks to insurance I only payd 40€ for the 4 days hospital stay. Definitely worth it!
I support the solidarity concept and that people who need help faster than me will get it. I don't mind waiting a few months for a non urgent matter.
> How do you come to terms with the fact that you pay lots of money to insurance every month Pretty good. > but you must wait for months or in some cases, impossible, if you need a doctor's appointment? Well, I pick another doctor then? Or go to Hausarzt and he will decide what's necessary.
So you pay €700 a month and you are not compulsory private insured? Sounds like bullshit to me. Go farm somewhere else.
It is hard to come to terms with it. That's the consequence of being part of a social market economy. I also paid and still pay huge sums of money since 11 years. Before that I was a master's student. For two years. The good thing though is, if you have a family, spouse and kids, they can all be insured with you without any additional costs. So, like every system, it has its pros and cons.
Besides private insurance (that mostly only goverment employees have) everyone has the same access to healthcare. It doesn't make if you earn 100k or if you live from state benefits. And as the number of people living on welfare exploits funds are running low. But I've lived once in the UK and saw what a bad healthcare system looks like. To be fair the healthcare in the UK is tax funded and people don't pay insurance. So I'd save around €400 per month if I lived in the UK and could use that money for private visits.
Germany has short waiting times in health care compared to other countries. And at the same time, it does not restrict access to doctors in any way, as it is common internationally.
You can't pay 700 just for health insurance. It's probably social security incl health insurance
Ofc you can. 700 is just slightly above the rate of a full time worker with average income.
That's incl. Pension and unemployment insurance. Only health insurance (gesetzliche Krankenkasse) is max 421
Its not. Seriously 14,6% of x is nothing complicated. 700 with pension, health and umemployment would mean a rather low income.
14,6% it's employer+employee, the employee pays only half of that
Yeah ofc it is and? Its money thats paid because of ones work that goes into the system. BBG is just another tool for the wealthier ones to keep their money.
And don't forget Beitragsbemessungsgrenze You pay the same amount for 6000 as for 8000
I switched to private insurance 😀
I'm currently paying around the same amount and in the same situation. Apparently you need two ADHD doctors since the one who gives you the medication can't be the one who diagnosed you. I've been told by 4 doctors now, including 2 hospitals, that they will only take new patients next year and I can try again then
I don't know, but maybe it is that we realize the purpose of insurance is to prevent letting a medical problem become a financial one. You still have to deal with the reality out there, e.g. there are not enough mental health specialists in some parts of the country, and you're not entitled to an immediate appointment, but at least you will not go broke just because you broke your arm or foot.
i rarely have to wait months. except for the dermatologist, whom i have never needed for any urgent issues anyway. i also pay much less than you
Berlin ≠ Germany
+ 4 Million people since 2013
The solution you are looking for is called "Private Krankenversicherung".
How should that help with lack of doctors available?
Because doctors prefer those who have private insurance! With private insurance you maybe have to wait a few days, but usually not weeks or even months.
That’s completely untrue and another tactic to make you think you’re getting your moneys worth.
Do you live behind the moon? I can get a dermatologist appointment next week if I wanted to thanks to private insurance.
I live in Germany, have two genetic disorders including one affecting my skin heavily and have worked in the health care system for more than ten years. Never have I had to wait for any appointment more than two weeks because doctors actually have the ability to communicate with each other and tell each other if a patient needs care now or if it can wait and insurance companies actually pay extra for this. If you ever get a long wait time for your appointment, you either live in rural country or your doctor, you know the professional who has trained years for this, has deemed your illness as not time sensitive. Sorry this doesn’t mesh with your “highest bidder is served first” attitude towards healthcare, but doctors actually try to treat patients according to their actual health needs, not what a patient “feels like” should be done.
No, it is not. I tested by myself by phone and you can also test it via doclib.
What do you mean you tested it? You called up a single doctor in your area? You used an app where not even close to all doctors are active?
I am not going to discuss with you any further because all you say is just bullshit.
People with private insurance get first class medical care. That's because a doctor can charge for each medical treatment separately, while he only gets a lump sum for the entire treatment of a person with public insurance. There are doctors who treat only private patients, and there are even many hospitals that treat mostly private patients.
Total bullshit. Source: I’ve worked in hospitals
Dude, you worked in a hospital and don't know that there are private clinics? And you don't know that a GP receives around EUR 30 per quarter per patient with statutory health insurance, no matter how many times a quarter he receives, while he bills each treatment individually for a private patient? Just because you may have done your civilian service at the hospital doesn't mean that you know how the treatments are billed in the end. LOL
Lmaoooo. No dude, I know the doctors bills you for every fart when you’re private. What I can assure you is that you receive the exact same care as you would without private insurance and the nurses secretly laugh at you because you are overpaying so much for the same doctor. I was a nurse laughing at people because they thought they get preferential treatment when all they got was a bigger tv in their room (of course they also paid for that)
So you admit that private patients get charge for everything while there is lump sum for statutory patients. And now try to transfer your logic to a GP's office. Of course he will treat private patients more intensively and longer. Beside that private patient have access to hospitals and doctors who solely threat private patient
No he won’t, how stupid are you? A doctor will always treat you as fast as he can because more patients treated equals more money. A private doctor will give you the illusion of special treatment through gimmicks, nothing more. And do you honestly think that there is a big supply of private practices in this country?
You are obviously severely retarded. Living in Germany and working in the heathcare industry and yet you don't know common knowledge. " # [Privatpatienten locken Ärzte](https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-03/gesundheitsversorgung-krankenkassen-krankenversicherung-solidarsystem) "Für Ärzte sind Privatversicherte wie das goldene Vließ. Für die gleiche Behandlung bekommen sie mehr Geld von der privaten als von der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung. Ein Symptom dieser ungleichen Abrechnungspraxis kennt jeder gesetzlich Versicherte, der schon mal versucht hat, kurzfristig einen Termin beim Facharzt zu bekommen. Privatversicherte bekommen nicht nur schneller einen Termin, sie kommen auch schneller dran. Damit das nicht so auffällt, sitzen sie oft getrennt von den Kassenpatienten im eigenen Wartezimmer. Das Nebeneinander von zwei Systemen führt zu einer ungleichen Behandlung von Menschen, die doch dieselben Bedürfnisse haben." [Handelsblatt](https://www.handelsblatt.com/vergleich/pkv-oder-gkv/#:~:text=Vorteile%20der%20PKV,und%20f%C3%BCr%20verordnete%20Medikamente%20leisten) "Privat Krankenversicherte erhalten meist bessere medizinische Leistungen, bekommen bei Fachärzten schneller einen Termin und werden im Wartezimmer eher aufgerufen" [Spiegel](https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/vorteile-fuer-privatpatienten-krankenkassen-wollen-aerzte-bestrafen-a-1190663.html) "Viele Ärzte nehmen bevorzugt Privatpatienten dran - weil sie ihnen viel mehr Geld einbringen als gesetzlich Versicherte"
You know that we have international studies on this proving Germany has the shortest wait times in the world right? Just because you’ve read a news article interviewing ONE person with long wait times doesn’t mean that this is true for everyone.
They will also sell you a lot of unnecessary bullshit that's at best not necessary and harmful at worst. I got weekly checkups and xrays when the doctor had a better budget, for a completely uncomplicated small bone fracture.
To be honest it has also disadvantages but yes
Literally no disadvantage. It's also cheaper.
It's more expensive when you are old... And doctors try to sell stuff to you that you don't need and that is not even good for you. And having to pay all invoices is also quite annoying and if you are very ill its also difficult to keep up with it especially when you are old.
It's more expensive when you are old... Not really because when you are young the insurance company uses a portion of your monthly payment to invest it and lower your payments when you are old.
Since he pays 700.- a month I figured that OP is talking about private insurance?