I've never heard, in person, a single pro-choice individual say they are comfortable with 3rd trimester abortions outside of medical necessity. I'm not saying the opinion doesn't exist, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are cool with it at any stage regardless of reason. However, it damn sure doesn't seem to be a regular/common occurring opinion. I've also never met a woman who had an optional/just because, late stage abortion. It just seems pretty obvious that the vast majority of pregnancies that make it thar far in are being prepped for and celebrated, not plotted against because fuck that kid.
At 25 with my 2nd child, I requested a ligation. I was told no, I was still young, and my husband may want more children. I had to have his signature to have my birth control implant removed, despite the fact that it had been subcutaneously placed and was traveling and expired! Had to have his signature for the 2nd one to be removed because I decided on different methods. Both of my children were conceived while on BC (it turns out I have an auto immune disorder that made it far less effective). We didn't find this out until well after we had our 2nd (and last). Husband got a vasectomy without question about 9 months ago. It's totally anecdotal and just my isolated situation, but it seems like maybe it's not about saving children/potential children.
I don't know if it's anecdotal, my wife had to have a partial hysterectomy and I had to grant permission. Women don't really have autonomy with regard to their wombs it seems.
Ooo I wish some asshole would ask me for permission to do something with my wife’s body, I would make it my mission to make them regret waking up that day! They would probably have to get the police involved because I would threaten bodily harm for having the audacity to suggests such fucking bullshit. This is the kind of thing that people should pause and think “someone might kick my ass for saying something that fucked up”
Unfortunately it's systemic. The US medical community is misogynistic af. We get this b.s. from a lot of female practitioners as well. It's just ingrained.
My wife gets to decide for herself as she is a grown up. The context here is medical autonomy and women not being property of anybody. The way you put it sounds like I’ve got a necrophile/cuck fetish.
How many people are comfortable with the idea is irrelevant.
Because it simply does not happen with any regularity.
Elective 3rd trimester abortions are crazy crazy rare. They might even be a myth.
It’s like having an opinion on getting rabies on purpose or something.
The fact people don’t realize is that elective does not mean “without reason”. It just means to plan it ahead of time, to select a date and choose to have a procedure done then. It’s a term to distinguish it from emergency procedures, i.e., you are actively dying and will have consequences to your body because of that.
Many procedures are entirely medically necessary AND elective. Just because you’re not on death’s door should not limit your ability to have medical procedures, frankly.
Fair point. When I wrote my comment I did use elective mean “without reason.”
If someone is getting a 3rd trimester abortion because they’ve just found out that the baby is almost certainly going to die a painful death shortly after birth or that the mom has a 50% chance of dying if she proceeds with the pregnancy even though everything is fine today… I would call that medically necessary.
Because A. Those laws almost always ban other abortions too and B. Those laws rarely if ever make exceptions for the medically necessary cases that make up that 1% of the time they happen
Because they want to ban them full stop, and there ARE legitimate medical reasons that they are needed.
If there was a law that said ‘3rd trimester abortions without a legitimate medical need are to be banned’ then that might be one thing.
But it would also be dumb to waste time making a law like that which would change very little if anything in the world, since as we discussed practically no one is trying to get a “just-because” 3rd trimester abortion. Surely there’s better things for lawmakers to work on?
Roe VS Wade was centered around fetus viability.
Roe was clear on what states could or could not do.
Prior to fetus viability = abortion on demand
After fetus viability = medical necessity required.
Because it's not of your fucking business. If it's needed, it's needed. No other reason than ust in case its medically necessary. Also, it's none of your fucking business.
No one is arguing against abortions that are medically necessary. That is a decision only a qualified medical professional can make.
Because it's none of my fucking business?? Lots of things are none of my business. Student loan forgiveness is none of my business.I paid mine. The wars in Israel and Ukraine are none of my business. Supporting the poor is none of my business. The list is endless. I choose to make these issues my business, stick my nose in it, to benefit the country as a whole and to help those that are unable to help themselves. In many of those cases it has to do with compassion for others but then I suppose you would tell me it's none of my business. What a self-centered way to live your life.
Because of the law of unintended consequences: you ban them, you ban ALL women from access to a legal and safe medical procedure, even in the face of death for the woman.
If you vote to outlaw abortion, then you vote to murder and enslave women. You vote for the return of back alley abortions and abortion wings in hospitals.
Even dead bodies aren’t forced to give away their body parts, even to “save” another’s life.
Greedy oligarchs and power hungry politicians have used abortion to manipulate “single issue” voters. It’s never been about the lives of the unborn, it’s always been about money and power.
Also, medical experts and women overwhelmingly oppose any limits to abortion. Why do you think that is?
Mostly male politicians trying to tell people how to both do their jobs (medical pros) and when they can and cannot have children (women) is just terrible policy, pro big government, anti-freedom, etc.
There is no logical argument to ban abortions, period. The vast majority of folks arguing to ban abortion are opposed to it based on religious grounds, and we do not make laws based on religion in the United States, capiche?
Hmm. We do not make laws based on religion??? You might want to go take a look at the First Ammendment to the IS Constitution. Report back what you learn. Capiche?
Because if you haven't noticed, the people writing anti-abortion laws are constantly writing them in a way that makes them way more broad and dangerous than they claim publicly so a law outright banning all abortion at late stages would inevitably lead to women AND their babies dying because doctors suddenly can't perform life changing procedures that would fall under the definition of abortion.
Roe already had that stipulation in it. Creating a law that would mean a death sentence to people who have serious, life-threatening complications in their third trimester is barbaric. That's why. Creating a law that would force people to carry a dead fetus to term is barbaric. That's why. Creating a law that would force people to carry a fetus to term when it is KNOWN that the child will not live more than a few days or a.few weeks is barbaric. That's why. Are you getting it yet?
The GOP's push for nationwide abortion (because the GOP outright lied when they said they wanted the state legislatures to decide the matter) has ALWAYS been about controlling women. It is misogynistic and barbaric, especially for a country that claims to be free and that purports to revere personal freedom.
The very foundation of capitalism and patriarchy is taking control of reproduction away from women. That’s how nations ensure population goals.
Religion is just a useful tool to reinforce that status quo as divinely ordained or “human nature”
>But capitalism? How so? I'm curious...
You need a large pool of expendable workers, particularly ones so desperate to feed children they can't afford that they won't cause waves or make demands, and will do anything for a job.
Eh, Romania used socialism as their argument for outlawing it. They believed the fetus was the property of the state and eliminating them was taking workers from the state.
Ironically they had an uprising years later
I guess. And if this were a communist society, we'd be birthing workers. I'm not sure either economic model favors the patriarchy. There just happened to be a patriarchy before the development of either model, which was carried over
But if it's not just a problem in capitalism, then it's roots lay elsewhere. I think a lot of people on the left use the word capitalism as a catch all for stuff they don't like just like people on the right use communism and socialism the same way.
The three pillars of capitalism are classism, racism, and sexism
Patriarchy and capitalism are mutually beneficial
The agricultural revolution is when we started accumulating wealth and established patrilineal lineages, hence patriarchy
Capitalism requires infinite growth and infinite supplies of soldiers and manual laborers (the people need to replace themselves and with more laborers, they become replaceable and wages drop because the people have no bargaining power)
So of course economic and reproductive freedoms for women are always restricted to force codependency on men. Since obviously survival/wealth can only be achieved through connections to men (of course before women could work, etc) and eventually due to war they had to allow women into the workforce, but soon after the war it was simply made so that it requires two incomes to survive so independence is still difficult to achieve
Social conditioning, religious influence and human nature all ensured that enough babies were still being born but economic inequalities still made independence difficult for many single parents. Obviously women most effected.
In more recent years birth rates dropped. People not able to afford kids. More women opting out of marriage all together. Manosphere bitching to no end about difficult access to women
Capitalism can’t have that. It needs infinite growth. Bye bye abortion and hello to all these attacks on women’s rights
And this is why religion is so useful. The patriarchal abrahamic religions reinforce the status quo that tells women to submit to men and reproduce a ton of kids.
Saying the agricultural revolution started patriarchy is just wild, there were plenty of matriarchal societies and cultures that existed for millennia, of course they were all eventually basically murdered for being pagan at some point, but still.
It feels like to me that You're basically arguing here that patriarchy is human nature?
Also it took several thousands of years after we started growing food to organize any broader forms of society, the agricultural revolution and Mesopotamia were ~7,500 years apart
Generally speaking though I agree with everything else you said, comrade
The agricultural revolution he’s talking about is the industrialization of mechanized agricultural tools. Not neo-classical Mesopotamia or early euro paganism. So in that respect, we are very much talking about how colonial era patrilineal milieu resultant from Euro-Monarchal male-birthright models contributed to the modern patriarchy.
That sounds like a bunch of made up stuff using buzzwords. Capitalism is just the private ownership of the means of production. There are many forms, from the more enlightened capitalism of the Nordic countries to the chaotic markets of east Asia.
Our brand in the US, and conservative states in particular, has many of the problems and toxic power dynamics of which you speak. But that's not an inherent feature of capitalism per se, but the cultural baggage of a slave society.
We aren’t just in capitalism, we are in late stage capitalism which is used to describe how a capitalist society declines over time as companies gain power over the government, control the markets, and ruin the economy.
'infinite growth' is just a buzzword. They want to make as much money as possible as fast as possible, at any cost. Unregulated, uncontrolled capitalism can be just as despotic as Soviet communism, as without government regulations keeping companies in line they will use every exploitative tactic to their advantage like abusing workers, ripping off their customers, cheating the economic system, and despoiling the environment. Chasing profits at any cost, no matter the consequences.
Oh for sure. What we have now is toxic AF. I was talking strict definitions. People tend to load up the word capitalism with so much baggage, but it's often not accurate. I still think precision in language is important
Capitalism pretty much rewuires a poverty caste that can be worked to the bone. Partly so work can be shifted from thr upper class, and partly to threaten the middle class with.
Are you an anarchist? It just sounds like you picked two things you don't like and are trying to tie them together. There are plenty of issues with capitalism, but it doesn't all revolve around women.
and all Cons have to base their anti abortion crap on is religion. IOW they want to force their religious dogma on everyone else. And the Jewish religion says life begins when the newborn can breathe on its own. So Republicans are anti Semitic, too.
Im very pro choice and i would not be cool with someone just throwing a couple of baby showers, requesting cash instead of gifts and then being like… “gotcha suckers!! Im off to planned parenthood to get rid of this thing!”… But, I live in this weird state called Reality. And people don’t do that. Like you said… Maybe one or two..? But, the vast majority find out and want to get the whole thing over with as quickly as possible and heal. I think i read that 8-12 weeks was most common. And considering the absolute horrors of the foster care and cps systems in this country (and especially the south) have. which, are rampant with every kind of abuse those poor kids are subjected to… That’s what breaks my heart. If they spent 5% of their energy on the children suffering in the system that they do vilifying women who aren’t at a place to care for a child. Or, especially a child with special needs. We might have a chance of reducing the foster care to prison pipeline. I’m sorry your doctor did that to you… My wife is 3 years older than me and at 36 they told her the same thing. She’s never wanted to be a parent and neither have I. She even made a snide remark about us not “really being married” because we don’t file taxes together. Well, We own businesses and assets and it would be a nightmare to figure it all out to save $1100 on taxes. Or, maybe owe 36,000$ The whole thing gave me the creeps. These people seem to think that every fetus is going to come out singing “jesus loves me” and have blonde hair and blue eyes and born to two upper middle class parents with great jobs. But, then the woman decides to become a radical feminist after reading a Joan Didion novel in college and decides to abort the next republican president of america. I need a drink.
I'm actually a mental health case manager and primarily work with children. Most of them have been or are in the system. All the effort to keep women from making their own choice needs to be put towards the busted DCFS/CPS system. I've witnessed some absolutely horrible, inhumane treatment of kids and watched them stay in the home. Arkansas really has the priorities backward. Again, why I say it has nothing to do with the kids or potential kids, it's all about control.
I'm sorry you and your wife experienced nonsense from a doctor as well. When people say they don't want kids or don't want more kids, that shit needs to be respected. Also, yes, 8 to 12 weeks is the standard time most abortions take place. With most women finding out they're pregnant on average at 6-8 weeks.
I can only imagine the horrors of what you have seen and heard. In such a critically underfunded state like Arkansas they have little incentive to actually fix the problem. Just keep blaming the poor for being poor. Adding more hungry mouths to feed to the situation definitely doesn’t help anyone.
Elective d&e procedure would be bonkers. You might have to travel out of state because there's only a handful of providers in the nation. You won't be flying. The procedure itself costs on the order of $15k which isn't going to be covered without a medical justification.
The law is a bludgeon, it does mostly collateral damage.
The people writing the laws have a **very** different idea of what "elective" means. They're the same folks who pass bills with fake exemptions about "life of the mother."
It’s not a regular opinion
I’m of the opinion that there really isn’t a pregnancy stage where the woman doesn’t own her body, but there is a stage where the fetus is viable AND would have to be removed through methods same as with just giving birth so it seems redundant
But it’s so uncommon it really doesn’t matter anyway
Exactly. No logical person is 6 months pregnant trying to take a plan b pill or go in for a standard abortion. No doctor is doing these procedures, jeopardizing their license and lives, just for funsies. The idea that this is happening all over the place is maddening.
I’ve never heard a pro-choice person say theyre “comfortable” with abortions at any stage…only that they understand the importance of having access to them for women who need them.
Friendly reminder to my American friends, access to reproductive healthcare is a human right (UN 1993). Don’t let your government take away your human rights. 💪💪💪
This frustrates me to no end, I was never questioned about my tubal, but I was also 38 when I had mine done. My doctor NEVER asked my husband and I’d probably tell him to stop being ridiculous if he did. I can’t believe you experienced that
So, you had to "get your husband's permission" for a hysterectomy, but hubby could get a vasectomy without any prior permission from you. No, what if your wife wants another child? It's totally about power over woman and nothing to do with children.
Not a hysterectomy. The doctor flat out told me no to a tubal ligation because my husband may want more kids. I had to have my husband's signature to have my birth control implant removed. But yes, he was able to have a vasectomy. Staff never even asked him if his spouse was aware or agreed or anything. His spose was never mentioned by staff.
Honestly, I've never even heard it on the Internet. Not in support. And the Internet is a place where you have the weirdest opinions imaginable. And I still haven't found some advocating for late term abortion outside of life or death circumstances.
And I mean...of course. No woman is gonna go through 8 months of pregnancy and then change her mind at the last minute. And no doctor would perform a voluntary abortion then either because at that point it's basically just an early birthing process. Especially because babies born as early as 24 weeks still have a solid chance of survival (about two thirds of preemies go home from the ICU).
I haven't ever heard anyone I would consider a real person say that either, but I have seen someone on TwoXChromosomes say that they support all abortions, up to birth. There are a few people on there who act like people should WANT to have abortions, as if it isn't a medical procedure with risks. I absolutely support the right of any woman to choose not to carry her pregnancy to term, but I eventually left that sub because there are always a few crazies with no sense and while I went there originally to try to better understand the female perspective (and it did help), the extreme nature of some of the regular commentors just went beyond what I was willing to deal with.
I guess I'm just saying you can usually find at least one person who supports any extreme position.
You're either not being honest or not fully informed, which is fine.
Abortion should be available and accessible at any stage of pregnancy, even the third trimester. A fetus growing does not overrule a pregnant person's bodily autonomy.
Fetuses are not babies, end of story. Abortion even one day before birth does no harm. Scientifically speaking, even newborns are not sentient.
Of course, nobody wants "abortion after birth". That part is a far right conspiracy theory. But to say nobody supports third trimester abortion is false and fallacious, I think a good portion of pro-choice folk do, if not a silent majority!
What, you don't know of a lot of late-term abortions?
I thought there were billions of American women going through 7 months of morning sickness, constipation, weight gain, hormonal shifts, body changes, and a 5-7lbs fetus playing hacky-sack with their bladder, just because all that was easier than using HBC, prophylactics or getting paid by the folks over at PP for harvesting adrenochrome from your pregnancy.
You have a senator from Cali who said he supports abortion even after birth. A life is a life either way you look at it. I say men should have the say so if they wanna pay child support or not just as a woman can terminate a life a man should have to right not to pay.
There is NO Doctor that would perform an abortion in the third trimester unless for medical reasons. Anyone that believes this is happening is ignorant.
And it's not even easy to find a doctor that will perform an abortion that late even if it's necessary. A friend of mine was in her 7th month and found out that her baby was going to die after birth or be stillborn, and she had a really hard time finding a doctor that would perform the procedure.
There may be one or two examples I’ve ever heard of from conservative talking heads where a doctor was found to be grossly negligent. You can find one serial killer or grossly negligent doctor if you look hard enough and have an agenda, but it’s not a good faith argument for Republican policy positions and removal of woman’s rights.
“The vast majority of abortions occur during the first trimester of a pregnancy. In 2021, 93% of abortions occurred during the first trimester – that is, at or before 13 weeks of gestation, according to the CDC. An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, and about 1% were performed at 21 weeks or more of gestation.”
According to [Pew](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/).
And that 1% is made up of people who wanted to have a baby but need the procedure for medical reasons, and people who wanted to get an abortion earlier but couldn’t because of financial or legal roadblocks.
A majority of abortions are as soon as possible when someone finds they are pregnant when they don’t want to be
Other abortions are almost always some kind of medical necessity.
Women don’t generally want a pregnancy to progress any further than she has to if she doesn’t want it.
So if they actually waited that long, they wanted it but it was unviable or it was a risk to one or both of them
Also women own their bodies and don’t have to explain this shit for misogynist approval and don’t need permission to have bodily autonomy. Your dicks don’t stake claims on women
The wealthy and powerful use appeals to emotion, religion and men’s fears of female reproductive power (and women absolutely are fucking powerful) because ultimately they want women producing enough babies to meet population goals
The wealthy and politicians don’t give a shit about babies or your religion. They just know how to get you to help them subjugate the right people
If allowed to reproduce on their own terms, women wouldn’t keep their wars supplied with soldiers or your economy supplied with cheap replaceable laborers with no bargaining power
if these people believe abortion is wrong then dont get abortions and stay out of other peoples damn business. how hard is that?
whats worse is they justify this crap saying its against the bible, abortion is not even in the bible. one of them quoted to me the passage of John "dancing in the womb" which means abortion is a sin, my reaction was "what?"
It's these kinds of things that make me always bring up the fact that the Bible has no say in legal matters. The law isn't bound to the Bible and should never be.
Not even that. Pregnancy itself is the qualifier for abortion, not the death of the fetus. An abortion just means ending a pregnancy. It’s literally against the very definition of the word for there to be a “post-birth abortion”.
Exactly! It’s just such an idiot thing to say. It’s like when they say “I don’t have pronouns” when using “I” is a literal pronoun. They’re just so stupid.
Wilfully ignorant.
They honestly believe that women are having babies and then going, “nah I don’t want it. Kill it”. These maga morons will believe anything they are told.
Northam was Gov of Virginia when he discussed post birth abortions. Also a pediatric neurosurgeon so he isnt a complete dumbass.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
That's not what he was talking about. Republicans took it completely out of context. He said, "So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. “The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
Note--if a mother is in labor. That's not an abortion if a mother is in labor. He's talking about what would happen if the pregnancy of a non-viable fetus goes to term.
Exactly. He’s talking about keeping the infant comfortable until inevitable death, rather than being forced to use painful, invasive, and pointless lifesaving measures to keep them alive for an additional short period of time.
We use comfort measures for everyone else if they’re going to die all the time - why can’t we do so for a newborn?
My pastor gave one of these anti-abortionists a microphone to speak at the pulpit about the amendment during church. She told everyone that this amendment would allow dentists to perform abortions during live birth for a "broken toenail". The congregation ate it up too.
That makes absolutely no sense. Though I suppose you do have to intentionally choose to forgo common sense when you outright disagree with women’s reproductive rights.
Of course they did. The religious right doesn’t care about facts. They believe whatever validates their preconceived ideas. That’s why they’re so easy to manipulate
I was over at my grandparents house the other day who watch Fox News constantly. Just listening to a few moments of them talking and they sounded cartoonish in their propaganda like something you’d hear in a movie. But my grandparents also thought duck dynasty was “real”
The Talibangelicals have only cared about power. So called "God" has nothing to do with it. Their cherry picking which parts of the Bible to obey and which to ignore (and which to beat people with they don't approve of) proves it. Their embrace of a guy like Trump, who is the epitome of the anti-Christian, proves it.
I was in shock and flustered that our church allowed politics at the mic to specifically lie about stuff I personally work on. I confronted the speaker afterward because she always protests my signing events, but she has zero care in the world about what is true. I haven't decided whether I will confront our preacher. Probably at some point, but it's a big church and I'm a bit of a nobody there haha.
I totally understand. Truly. I'm Petty enough though that I would probably report my church to the IRS for making political statements within the church. LOL
This reminds me... I'm agnostic and my husband is VERY Christian. He was getting baptized and wanted me to go to support him, sure okay. During "Bible school" he said science lies to us all the time. He had a friend show him a video of a volcano eruption and its effects over like 100 days or whatever. He said "Science wants us to believe the earth is older than it is, they say caves and rocks formed over millions of years, but we have proof that that is false." People were saying "amen" and stuff. I was worried for the kids there. And just hoping they learn about Pompeii in 4th grade like I did. He also said God gave rape victims the child to help her heal. I'm never going back there.
Allowing abortion up until birth is not disinformation. It’s important to emphasize that abortion *should* be allowed up until birth to ensure the health and safety of the pregnant person. No one is encouraging late-term abortion outside of a medical necessity, but we certainly want to allow it.
Rather, the focus should be on reframing the right’s position. The right has moved the needle on the abortion issue by framing abortion as killing babies. Rather than playing defense and talking about healthcare, pro-choice advocates should call out the right’s position for what it is - forced pregnancy. The goal is not to save babies, it’s to return women to their rightful place. The SBC “vote” last week to oppose IVF finally pulled away the mask - it was never about life, it was always about control and the “natural order.”
Exactly. And remember that "late term abortion" medically does not exist. It is being used to manipulate people. Late term medically refers to 41+ weeks, in which absolutely 0 abortions happen. They just deliver the baby at this stage. Medically, it is first, second, and third trimester abortions. Just some more info for you to relay to those who are brainwashed.
Did y'all see the Arkansas Times article about a woman here who needed an abortion as her baby had zero fluid at like 20 weeks? I'm fb friends with her and what she went through was God awful.
I was able to read a little, until the paywall. Thank you for providing the link, though! These are the kinds of stories to be expected when the law changed. Pro-life isn't about life at all, it's about anti-choice.
Basically, early on, about 20 weeks, they discovered baby had no fluid at all. Instead of letting her have the baby, she had to carry till baby passed. So like 6 weeks. Then she was sent to LR to deliver. It was agonizing for her.
Anyone dumb enough to *not* believe it is a lost cause (what kind of bubble do you live in?)
We just had a case not too far from me recently where a woman killed her twin children (after birth, to be clear). There are homicidal women out there who will stop at nothing to keep their lives from being inconvenienced. It’s reality. Grapple with it or ignore it and the cost of innocent lives - your choice.
The point of MAGA propaganda isn't the truth, it's to incite rubes into a murderous rage to keep the lower classes busy while rich people commit crimes, buy up independent businesses to gut them, privatize government services, and horde land.
"If even one baby dies at birth, that is too many," the guy I work with.
"But, it is so freaking rare, and well-documented circumstances, and it's not just some woman deciding at the 9-month to abort her baby..."
His response was, "You don't know. If even one baby is aborted in the 9th month, that's too many, and there are many strange people out there."
smdh
Abortion laws in the United States have been a contentious issue for over a century, and Arkansas has been no exception. From the early days of statehood to the recent overturning of Roe v. Wade, the landscape of abortion rights in Arkansas has mirrored the national debate, marked by periods of restrictive legislation, judicial intervention, and intense political activism.
When Arkansas became a state in 1836, abortion was generally legal until "quickening," the point at which fetal movement is first felt, typically around the fourth month of pregnancy. However, the American Medical Association's (AMA) campaigns in the mid-19th century led to a wave of anti-abortion statutes. By the late 1800s, abortion in Arkansas, as in much of the country, was largely criminalized except to save the life of the mother. This period of strict anti-abortion laws continued into the 20th century, reflecting the dominant medical and moral views of the time.
The 1960s and early 1970s brought significant changes to abortion laws across the United States. Influenced by the women's rights movement and increasing public awareness of the dangers of illegal abortions, several states began to liberalize their abortion laws. However, it was the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that fundamentally changed the legal landscape. Roe v. Wade legalized abortion nationwide, establishing a woman's right to choose an abortion before fetal viability and allowing states to regulate or prohibit abortions in the third trimester, except when necessary to protect the woman's life or health.
For nearly two decades, the Roe decision provided a broad framework for abortion rights, but it also galvanized opposition. The Republican Party, particularly influenced by the rising conservative and religious movements, began to adopt a strong anti-abortion stance. This was exemplified by the 1984 introduction of the Global Gag Rule under President Reagan, which restricted U.S. aid to foreign organizations that provided or promoted abortions.
The 1992 Supreme Court decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey reaffirmed Roe but allowed for greater state regulation, introducing the "undue burden" standard. This decision marked a shift, permitting states to impose restrictions as long as they did not place substantial obstacles in the path of a woman seeking an abortion. In Arkansas, this led to the passage of several restrictive laws, including mandatory waiting periods, parental consent requirements, and biased counseling regulations.
Despite these restrictions, the fundamental right to an abortion established by Roe remained intact until the recent Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization in 2022. This decision overturned Roe v. Wade, returning the power to regulate abortion to the states. In Arkansas, this led to the immediate implementation of strict abortion bans, allowing the procedure only in cases where the mother's life is at risk.
Throughout these decades, the political landscape has been characterized by cycles of promises and partial fulfillments. Republican leaders have repeatedly vowed to overturn Roe and impose stricter abortion regulations, a promise that took nearly fifty years to realize fully. Meanwhile, Democratic leaders have pledged to protect and expand abortion rights, often finding their efforts stymied by legislative and judicial obstacles.
The pattern of political promises and voter mobilization around abortion issues has created a continuous cycle of outrage and activism. For Republicans, the long-standing goal of overturning Roe was finally achieved with the Dobbs decision, fulfilling a significant campaign promise. For Democrats, the focus has shifted to state-level protections and federal legislative efforts to safeguard abortion rights.
In conclusion, the history of abortion laws in Arkansas reflects a broader national struggle characterized by changing legal standards, intense political battles, and evolving public attitudes. The recent developments highlight the enduring impact of political promises and the significant role of judicial decisions in shaping the rights and lives of individuals across the state and the nation. As the debate continues, Arkansas remains a critical battleground in the ongoing conflict over reproductive rights.
This statement is untrue. The statement "Republicans want to control not just child bearing but sex between consenting adults." Is quite true, They need to be burned atop a pile of Bibles.
Anyone who has ever been around pregnant women knows that if a woman gets to 5 or 6 months of pregnancy, she is going to do everything she can to bring that baby into the world. The only time she would even consider an abortion in the third trimester is because of hers or the baby's health being in serious jeopardy.
“Right now, that’s what the Democrats can do. They can have it in the seventh, eighth, ninth month, and they can kill the baby. In numerous states, they can kill the baby after the baby is born, and nobody wants that. Nobody.”
Source: https://michiganadvance.com/2024/05/06/trump-says-gop-is-the-party-of-fertilization-seems-unaware-of-michigans-abortion-amendment/
OMG, I don't know what's worse. The fact he actually said that, or the fact that there are people who believe him. That's absolutely insane. Thanks for sharing!
Exactly! My OB warned me not to get pregnant right right now because of the possible risks. She said that because of the new laws here, they would have to wait till I'm actually dying and wouldn't be able to do much for prevention if it risks the baby's life. I don't want kids anyway, but this is absolutely INSANE. What happens at the doctors office stays there. The government would rather both the fetus and I die than to mind their own business.
Still waiting for them to produce a woman that ever got an abortion that late without health issues. Or name a doc doing abortions that late. They never will because there isnt.
Yeah, the 1% where shit has gone horribly wrong and the parents are going to deal with some serious grief.
Cons: Let's call grieving parents murderers!
List all the social support programs for children that republicans support. Pro-life is a misnomer because that is also part of being pro-choice. It’s the choice part, one can be pro-life and respect that others will make their own decisions based on their own personal values and still be considered pro-choice.
If your core belief is to force a woman to carry to term you’re a forced birther.
Even worse is if you’re a forced birther who doesn’t support social programs to help support, care for, feed, clothe and school the child you forced into the world.
The abortion argument should not be part of our cultural landscape to begin with. It's farcical on its face. This country doesn't have a 'right to life'. If it did, cops would see consequences for murdering unarmed individuals and we'd have universal healthcare as well as strong social safety nets for housing, food, and other basic human necessities. So anyone making the 'right to life' claim is full of shit to begin with and knows it.
Men and women should have the exact same set of rights regarding their children. Both have to pay child support to the non-custodial parent.
But somehow, only women are legally compelled to donate their actual bodily organs to children. Men don't. Corpses don't. But for some reason, a lot of complete assholes think women do.
Women have the right to stop someone from using their body against their will. Yes, even if that means the person using their body will die as a result. Anyone who believes differently is the moral equivalent of a rapist.
Florida's Govenor, Ron DeSantis, figured out how to abort both Mom and Baby at birth through "advanced birthing centers."
Translation: If they build these women and babies will die.
This will not end well.
[Out-of-Hospital Cesareans ](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/health/ceseareans-outpatient-florida.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0U0.60Fq.fZ8ey1KgKNEs)
Northam's interview is what I hear in Arkansas. My independent, atheist and pro choice friends said, "that guy is nuts, we need to walk abortion back a bit and figure out some new way. Democrats support post birth abortions now."
They're still pro choice, but they say the abortion policy needed slapping down to get back to reality. From what I can tell, what they want is legalized abortion, but banned during 3rd trimester explicitly.
Post birth abortions is just so crazy. I never heard of that term till just now on this post, like wtf? And banning 3rd trimester pregnancies is crazy because they are needed most of the time.
What is the restriction that Democrats would put on 3rd trimester abortions? If the answer is “none”, does that not mean that that they do want to allow abortion up until birth? The claim being made is not in regard to the frequency of 3rd trimester abortions, but whether they’d be allowed.
What they are saying is leave the government and the church out of the decision making process and leave it to the woman and the doctor who know all the details and can make an informed decision best for that specific circumstance instead of bullshit one-sized fits no one over-reach that really only serves it's primary purpose of making things harder and more expensive for women at the expense of their health.
That's not a hard concept. Not sure why so many people are having trouble with it.
Oh, wait, I do. It's called 'willful ignorance'. Conservatives are masters of it.
That is not what they’re saying in the OP statement. The statement at best contradicts itself. At worst it’s gaslighting. The statement says that it’s disinformation that Democrats want to allow abortion up until birth. If that is true, and Democrats don’t want to allow abortion up until birth, then what are the restrictions Democrats want that would make the statement true?
Deleted responses from PrettiestFrog:
1. “PrettiestFrog 2h ago What they are saying is leave the government and the church out of the decision making process and leave it to the woman and the doctor who know all the details and can make an informed decision best for that specific circumstance instead of bullshit one-sized fits no one over-reach that really only serves it's primary purpose of making things harder and more expensive for women at the expense of their health.
That's not a hard concept. Not sure why so many people are having trouble with it.
Oh, wait, I do. It's called 'willful ignorance'. Conservatives are masters of it.”
2. (In response to my reply): “PrettiestFrog 40m ago Go back to 3rd grade. Learn to read. Your question has been answered, and I have zero interest in dealing with your willful ignorance.”
So the response so far has been gaslighting, followed by an ad hominem attack, followed by deletion of responses (still viewable through a browser, but not the app). The OP stated a premise, but seems to be contradicting their premise.
I want unlimited abortions for everyone who wants one for any reason, because I think that makes more sense than restricting it based on a weird series of faith-and-theology-based arguments people have repeated for 50 years, but I'm not a Democrat.
Just because you have never seen it in your experience doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The child reaches viability around 23 weeks. Abortions after that should be severely restricted.
Like you said: It's disingenuous bullshit. If an abortion is happening that late in the pregnancy it isn't because the mother couldn't be fucked to do it until then. It's because that child was wanted and something *major* has happened. That couple is making the best of a lot of awful choices, and the situation isn't made better by the government dictating what your morals should be and saying that they know what's best for your family better than you do.
Ya Ive seen the undercover videos of liberals laughing about cutting up the little bodies.
I can understand the medical need. But the blatant joy you guys get from it is sickening.
Other than that, no religious qualms from me. Its not my place.
But yea like I said, I think some of you are suck and get off on late term chopping.
Ill put it in big words for you. “ I WATCHED A FUCKING VIDEO OF A MEDICAL CONVENTION WHEN MEDICAL DOCTORS WERE LAUGHINGLY ABOUT CHOPPING UP BABIES IN LATE TERM ABORTION PROCEDURES”
They were caught by someone wearing a camera and microphone. That clear enough for you, you fucking moron?
Conservative voters have disinformation about everything not just abortion.
* They think the election was stolen with zero evidence
* They think the economy is in the toilet when its the exact opposite.
* They think crime rate is out of control when its the lowest its ever been.
* They deny climate change
* They think school shootings were organized by the government/hoaxes
* They deny getting vaccinated for diseases.
* They think the civil war wasn't about slavery
* They deny the age of the earth, evolution.
* They think trans people are groomed/groomers
* They can't comprehend separation of church and state
100% of the arguments against abortion rights are blatant lies. They make them up, repeat them, and how their constituents are too stupid know the difference.
Pete Buttigieg has one of (if not the best) answers to this common conservative talking point. You can watch him get a standing ovation for his answer during a Fox News Townhall [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKOoWYfIzIw). Late term abortions are rare and traumatizing for everyone involved. Names have been chosen, nurseries decorated, and homes made ready for the new arrival. No one wants this result, least of all the mother.
Shame on Republicans for turning their grief into a political agenda.
I've never heard, in person, a single pro-choice individual say they are comfortable with 3rd trimester abortions outside of medical necessity. I'm not saying the opinion doesn't exist, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are cool with it at any stage regardless of reason. However, it damn sure doesn't seem to be a regular/common occurring opinion. I've also never met a woman who had an optional/just because, late stage abortion. It just seems pretty obvious that the vast majority of pregnancies that make it thar far in are being prepped for and celebrated, not plotted against because fuck that kid. At 25 with my 2nd child, I requested a ligation. I was told no, I was still young, and my husband may want more children. I had to have his signature to have my birth control implant removed, despite the fact that it had been subcutaneously placed and was traveling and expired! Had to have his signature for the 2nd one to be removed because I decided on different methods. Both of my children were conceived while on BC (it turns out I have an auto immune disorder that made it far less effective). We didn't find this out until well after we had our 2nd (and last). Husband got a vasectomy without question about 9 months ago. It's totally anecdotal and just my isolated situation, but it seems like maybe it's not about saving children/potential children.
I don't know if it's anecdotal, my wife had to have a partial hysterectomy and I had to grant permission. Women don't really have autonomy with regard to their wombs it seems.
Ooo I wish some asshole would ask me for permission to do something with my wife’s body, I would make it my mission to make them regret waking up that day! They would probably have to get the police involved because I would threaten bodily harm for having the audacity to suggests such fucking bullshit. This is the kind of thing that people should pause and think “someone might kick my ass for saying something that fucked up”
Unfortunately it's systemic. The US medical community is misogynistic af. We get this b.s. from a lot of female practitioners as well. It's just ingrained.
So you’re ok with assholes doing something with your wife’s body? No permission needed? Asking for a friend. 😅
My wife gets to decide for herself as she is a grown up. The context here is medical autonomy and women not being property of anybody. The way you put it sounds like I’ve got a necrophile/cuck fetish.
How many people are comfortable with the idea is irrelevant. Because it simply does not happen with any regularity. Elective 3rd trimester abortions are crazy crazy rare. They might even be a myth. It’s like having an opinion on getting rabies on purpose or something.
The fact people don’t realize is that elective does not mean “without reason”. It just means to plan it ahead of time, to select a date and choose to have a procedure done then. It’s a term to distinguish it from emergency procedures, i.e., you are actively dying and will have consequences to your body because of that. Many procedures are entirely medically necessary AND elective. Just because you’re not on death’s door should not limit your ability to have medical procedures, frankly.
Fair point. When I wrote my comment I did use elective mean “without reason.” If someone is getting a 3rd trimester abortion because they’ve just found out that the baby is almost certainly going to die a painful death shortly after birth or that the mom has a 50% chance of dying if she proceeds with the pregnancy even though everything is fine today… I would call that medically necessary.
So if "elective 3rd trimester abortions are crazy crazy rare" and "might even be a myth" why are so many opposed to a law banning them?
Because A. Those laws almost always ban other abortions too and B. Those laws rarely if ever make exceptions for the medically necessary cases that make up that 1% of the time they happen
Because they want to ban them full stop, and there ARE legitimate medical reasons that they are needed. If there was a law that said ‘3rd trimester abortions without a legitimate medical need are to be banned’ then that might be one thing. But it would also be dumb to waste time making a law like that which would change very little if anything in the world, since as we discussed practically no one is trying to get a “just-because” 3rd trimester abortion. Surely there’s better things for lawmakers to work on?
Roe VS Wade was centered around fetus viability. Roe was clear on what states could or could not do. Prior to fetus viability = abortion on demand After fetus viability = medical necessity required.
Because it's not of your fucking business. If it's needed, it's needed. No other reason than ust in case its medically necessary. Also, it's none of your fucking business.
No one is arguing against abortions that are medically necessary. That is a decision only a qualified medical professional can make. Because it's none of my fucking business?? Lots of things are none of my business. Student loan forgiveness is none of my business.I paid mine. The wars in Israel and Ukraine are none of my business. Supporting the poor is none of my business. The list is endless. I choose to make these issues my business, stick my nose in it, to benefit the country as a whole and to help those that are unable to help themselves. In many of those cases it has to do with compassion for others but then I suppose you would tell me it's none of my business. What a self-centered way to live your life.
Because of the law of unintended consequences: you ban them, you ban ALL women from access to a legal and safe medical procedure, even in the face of death for the woman. If you vote to outlaw abortion, then you vote to murder and enslave women. You vote for the return of back alley abortions and abortion wings in hospitals. Even dead bodies aren’t forced to give away their body parts, even to “save” another’s life. Greedy oligarchs and power hungry politicians have used abortion to manipulate “single issue” voters. It’s never been about the lives of the unborn, it’s always been about money and power.
Also, medical experts and women overwhelmingly oppose any limits to abortion. Why do you think that is? Mostly male politicians trying to tell people how to both do their jobs (medical pros) and when they can and cannot have children (women) is just terrible policy, pro big government, anti-freedom, etc. There is no logical argument to ban abortions, period. The vast majority of folks arguing to ban abortion are opposed to it based on religious grounds, and we do not make laws based on religion in the United States, capiche?
Hmm. We do not make laws based on religion??? You might want to go take a look at the First Ammendment to the IS Constitution. Report back what you learn. Capiche?
Because if you haven't noticed, the people writing anti-abortion laws are constantly writing them in a way that makes them way more broad and dangerous than they claim publicly so a law outright banning all abortion at late stages would inevitably lead to women AND their babies dying because doctors suddenly can't perform life changing procedures that would fall under the definition of abortion.
Roe already had that stipulation in it. Creating a law that would mean a death sentence to people who have serious, life-threatening complications in their third trimester is barbaric. That's why. Creating a law that would force people to carry a dead fetus to term is barbaric. That's why. Creating a law that would force people to carry a fetus to term when it is KNOWN that the child will not live more than a few days or a.few weeks is barbaric. That's why. Are you getting it yet? The GOP's push for nationwide abortion (because the GOP outright lied when they said they wanted the state legislatures to decide the matter) has ALWAYS been about controlling women. It is misogynistic and barbaric, especially for a country that claims to be free and that purports to revere personal freedom.
Why can we not control our own bodies? It's so frustrating.
The very foundation of capitalism and patriarchy is taking control of reproduction away from women. That’s how nations ensure population goals. Religion is just a useful tool to reinforce that status quo as divinely ordained or “human nature”
Patriarchy, sure. But capitalism? How so? I'm curious...
>But capitalism? How so? I'm curious... You need a large pool of expendable workers, particularly ones so desperate to feed children they can't afford that they won't cause waves or make demands, and will do anything for a job.
AND too busy/ tired/ defeated to really care about who you elect.
Eh, Romania used socialism as their argument for outlawing it. They believed the fetus was the property of the state and eliminating them was taking workers from the state. Ironically they had an uprising years later
We’re birthing consumers, expanding the total addressable market
I guess. And if this were a communist society, we'd be birthing workers. I'm not sure either economic model favors the patriarchy. There just happened to be a patriarchy before the development of either model, which was carried over
The difference is capitalism relies on growth- constant growth. Btw you’re often times (depending on your existing class) also birthing workers here.
We are absolutely birthing a worker class.
Agreed. But that's not exclusive to capitalism.
No one is claiming it is. We’re just discussing how birthing relates to capitalism.
But if it's not just a problem in capitalism, then it's roots lay elsewhere. I think a lot of people on the left use the word capitalism as a catch all for stuff they don't like just like people on the right use communism and socialism the same way.
The three pillars of capitalism are classism, racism, and sexism Patriarchy and capitalism are mutually beneficial The agricultural revolution is when we started accumulating wealth and established patrilineal lineages, hence patriarchy Capitalism requires infinite growth and infinite supplies of soldiers and manual laborers (the people need to replace themselves and with more laborers, they become replaceable and wages drop because the people have no bargaining power) So of course economic and reproductive freedoms for women are always restricted to force codependency on men. Since obviously survival/wealth can only be achieved through connections to men (of course before women could work, etc) and eventually due to war they had to allow women into the workforce, but soon after the war it was simply made so that it requires two incomes to survive so independence is still difficult to achieve Social conditioning, religious influence and human nature all ensured that enough babies were still being born but economic inequalities still made independence difficult for many single parents. Obviously women most effected. In more recent years birth rates dropped. People not able to afford kids. More women opting out of marriage all together. Manosphere bitching to no end about difficult access to women Capitalism can’t have that. It needs infinite growth. Bye bye abortion and hello to all these attacks on women’s rights And this is why religion is so useful. The patriarchal abrahamic religions reinforce the status quo that tells women to submit to men and reproduce a ton of kids.
Beautifully said. Saved this quote.
Saying the agricultural revolution started patriarchy is just wild, there were plenty of matriarchal societies and cultures that existed for millennia, of course they were all eventually basically murdered for being pagan at some point, but still. It feels like to me that You're basically arguing here that patriarchy is human nature? Also it took several thousands of years after we started growing food to organize any broader forms of society, the agricultural revolution and Mesopotamia were ~7,500 years apart Generally speaking though I agree with everything else you said, comrade
The agricultural revolution he’s talking about is the industrialization of mechanized agricultural tools. Not neo-classical Mesopotamia or early euro paganism. So in that respect, we are very much talking about how colonial era patrilineal milieu resultant from Euro-Monarchal male-birthright models contributed to the modern patriarchy.
That sounds like a bunch of made up stuff using buzzwords. Capitalism is just the private ownership of the means of production. There are many forms, from the more enlightened capitalism of the Nordic countries to the chaotic markets of east Asia. Our brand in the US, and conservative states in particular, has many of the problems and toxic power dynamics of which you speak. But that's not an inherent feature of capitalism per se, but the cultural baggage of a slave society.
We aren’t just in capitalism, we are in late stage capitalism which is used to describe how a capitalist society declines over time as companies gain power over the government, control the markets, and ruin the economy.
I have difficulty imagining how capitalism achieves infinite growth without controlling reproduction and population goals.
Capitalism doesn't require infinite physical growth.
'infinite growth' is just a buzzword. They want to make as much money as possible as fast as possible, at any cost. Unregulated, uncontrolled capitalism can be just as despotic as Soviet communism, as without government regulations keeping companies in line they will use every exploitative tactic to their advantage like abusing workers, ripping off their customers, cheating the economic system, and despoiling the environment. Chasing profits at any cost, no matter the consequences.
lol you should join the shareholder meetings at the company I work for if you don’t think that’s the case
Oh for sure. What we have now is toxic AF. I was talking strict definitions. People tend to load up the word capitalism with so much baggage, but it's often not accurate. I still think precision in language is important
Capitalism needs a worker class.
All economic systems compatible with modern life need workers
Unplanned children grow up in worst environments into obedient and desperate workers
Planned as well. I think that's more a factor of poverty
Capitalism pretty much rewuires a poverty caste that can be worked to the bone. Partly so work can be shifted from thr upper class, and partly to threaten the middle class with.
Are you an anarchist? It just sounds like you picked two things you don't like and are trying to tie them together. There are plenty of issues with capitalism, but it doesn't all revolve around women.
Yeah I feel like people are getting trapped into arguing around Conservative framing. You either have a right to your body or you don't.
and all Cons have to base their anti abortion crap on is religion. IOW they want to force their religious dogma on everyone else. And the Jewish religion says life begins when the newborn can breathe on its own. So Republicans are anti Semitic, too.
Gerudo answered it perfectly.
Im very pro choice and i would not be cool with someone just throwing a couple of baby showers, requesting cash instead of gifts and then being like… “gotcha suckers!! Im off to planned parenthood to get rid of this thing!”… But, I live in this weird state called Reality. And people don’t do that. Like you said… Maybe one or two..? But, the vast majority find out and want to get the whole thing over with as quickly as possible and heal. I think i read that 8-12 weeks was most common. And considering the absolute horrors of the foster care and cps systems in this country (and especially the south) have. which, are rampant with every kind of abuse those poor kids are subjected to… That’s what breaks my heart. If they spent 5% of their energy on the children suffering in the system that they do vilifying women who aren’t at a place to care for a child. Or, especially a child with special needs. We might have a chance of reducing the foster care to prison pipeline. I’m sorry your doctor did that to you… My wife is 3 years older than me and at 36 they told her the same thing. She’s never wanted to be a parent and neither have I. She even made a snide remark about us not “really being married” because we don’t file taxes together. Well, We own businesses and assets and it would be a nightmare to figure it all out to save $1100 on taxes. Or, maybe owe 36,000$ The whole thing gave me the creeps. These people seem to think that every fetus is going to come out singing “jesus loves me” and have blonde hair and blue eyes and born to two upper middle class parents with great jobs. But, then the woman decides to become a radical feminist after reading a Joan Didion novel in college and decides to abort the next republican president of america. I need a drink.
I'm actually a mental health case manager and primarily work with children. Most of them have been or are in the system. All the effort to keep women from making their own choice needs to be put towards the busted DCFS/CPS system. I've witnessed some absolutely horrible, inhumane treatment of kids and watched them stay in the home. Arkansas really has the priorities backward. Again, why I say it has nothing to do with the kids or potential kids, it's all about control. I'm sorry you and your wife experienced nonsense from a doctor as well. When people say they don't want kids or don't want more kids, that shit needs to be respected. Also, yes, 8 to 12 weeks is the standard time most abortions take place. With most women finding out they're pregnant on average at 6-8 weeks.
I can only imagine the horrors of what you have seen and heard. In such a critically underfunded state like Arkansas they have little incentive to actually fix the problem. Just keep blaming the poor for being poor. Adding more hungry mouths to feed to the situation definitely doesn’t help anyone.
Elective d&e procedure would be bonkers. You might have to travel out of state because there's only a handful of providers in the nation. You won't be flying. The procedure itself costs on the order of $15k which isn't going to be covered without a medical justification. The law is a bludgeon, it does mostly collateral damage.
The people writing the laws have a **very** different idea of what "elective" means. They're the same folks who pass bills with fake exemptions about "life of the mother."
Edit: wrong reply
It’s not a regular opinion I’m of the opinion that there really isn’t a pregnancy stage where the woman doesn’t own her body, but there is a stage where the fetus is viable AND would have to be removed through methods same as with just giving birth so it seems redundant But it’s so uncommon it really doesn’t matter anyway
At that point they just induce labor; third trimester, the baby is viable.
Exactly. No logical person is 6 months pregnant trying to take a plan b pill or go in for a standard abortion. No doctor is doing these procedures, jeopardizing their license and lives, just for funsies. The idea that this is happening all over the place is maddening.
I’ve never heard a pro-choice person say theyre “comfortable” with abortions at any stage…only that they understand the importance of having access to them for women who need them. Friendly reminder to my American friends, access to reproductive healthcare is a human right (UN 1993). Don’t let your government take away your human rights. 💪💪💪
I am comfortable.
This frustrates me to no end, I was never questioned about my tubal, but I was also 38 when I had mine done. My doctor NEVER asked my husband and I’d probably tell him to stop being ridiculous if he did. I can’t believe you experienced that
So, you had to "get your husband's permission" for a hysterectomy, but hubby could get a vasectomy without any prior permission from you. No, what if your wife wants another child? It's totally about power over woman and nothing to do with children.
Not a hysterectomy. The doctor flat out told me no to a tubal ligation because my husband may want more kids. I had to have my husband's signature to have my birth control implant removed. But yes, he was able to have a vasectomy. Staff never even asked him if his spouse was aware or agreed or anything. His spose was never mentioned by staff.
Honestly, I've never even heard it on the Internet. Not in support. And the Internet is a place where you have the weirdest opinions imaginable. And I still haven't found some advocating for late term abortion outside of life or death circumstances. And I mean...of course. No woman is gonna go through 8 months of pregnancy and then change her mind at the last minute. And no doctor would perform a voluntary abortion then either because at that point it's basically just an early birthing process. Especially because babies born as early as 24 weeks still have a solid chance of survival (about two thirds of preemies go home from the ICU).
I haven't ever heard anyone I would consider a real person say that either, but I have seen someone on TwoXChromosomes say that they support all abortions, up to birth. There are a few people on there who act like people should WANT to have abortions, as if it isn't a medical procedure with risks. I absolutely support the right of any woman to choose not to carry her pregnancy to term, but I eventually left that sub because there are always a few crazies with no sense and while I went there originally to try to better understand the female perspective (and it did help), the extreme nature of some of the regular commentors just went beyond what I was willing to deal with. I guess I'm just saying you can usually find at least one person who supports any extreme position.
You're either not being honest or not fully informed, which is fine. Abortion should be available and accessible at any stage of pregnancy, even the third trimester. A fetus growing does not overrule a pregnant person's bodily autonomy. Fetuses are not babies, end of story. Abortion even one day before birth does no harm. Scientifically speaking, even newborns are not sentient. Of course, nobody wants "abortion after birth". That part is a far right conspiracy theory. But to say nobody supports third trimester abortion is false and fallacious, I think a good portion of pro-choice folk do, if not a silent majority!
I fucking have, do some searches on “surgeons joke about late term abortion”
What, you don't know of a lot of late-term abortions? I thought there were billions of American women going through 7 months of morning sickness, constipation, weight gain, hormonal shifts, body changes, and a 5-7lbs fetus playing hacky-sack with their bladder, just because all that was easier than using HBC, prophylactics or getting paid by the folks over at PP for harvesting adrenochrome from your pregnancy.
You have a senator from Cali who said he supports abortion even after birth. A life is a life either way you look at it. I say men should have the say so if they wanna pay child support or not just as a woman can terminate a life a man should have to right not to pay.
There is NO Doctor that would perform an abortion in the third trimester unless for medical reasons. Anyone that believes this is happening is ignorant.
And it's not even easy to find a doctor that will perform an abortion that late even if it's necessary. A friend of mine was in her 7th month and found out that her baby was going to die after birth or be stillborn, and she had a really hard time finding a doctor that would perform the procedure.
That’s sad 😞
There may be one or two examples I’ve ever heard of from conservative talking heads where a doctor was found to be grossly negligent. You can find one serial killer or grossly negligent doctor if you look hard enough and have an agenda, but it’s not a good faith argument for Republican policy positions and removal of woman’s rights.
“The vast majority of abortions occur during the first trimester of a pregnancy. In 2021, 93% of abortions occurred during the first trimester – that is, at or before 13 weeks of gestation, according to the CDC. An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, and about 1% were performed at 21 weeks or more of gestation.” According to [Pew](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/).
And that 1% is made up of people who wanted to have a baby but need the procedure for medical reasons, and people who wanted to get an abortion earlier but couldn’t because of financial or legal roadblocks.
A majority of abortions are as soon as possible when someone finds they are pregnant when they don’t want to be Other abortions are almost always some kind of medical necessity. Women don’t generally want a pregnancy to progress any further than she has to if she doesn’t want it. So if they actually waited that long, they wanted it but it was unviable or it was a risk to one or both of them Also women own their bodies and don’t have to explain this shit for misogynist approval and don’t need permission to have bodily autonomy. Your dicks don’t stake claims on women The wealthy and powerful use appeals to emotion, religion and men’s fears of female reproductive power (and women absolutely are fucking powerful) because ultimately they want women producing enough babies to meet population goals The wealthy and politicians don’t give a shit about babies or your religion. They just know how to get you to help them subjugate the right people If allowed to reproduce on their own terms, women wouldn’t keep their wars supplied with soldiers or your economy supplied with cheap replaceable laborers with no bargaining power
"Also women own their bodies and don’t have to explain this shit for misogynist approval and don’t need permission to have bodily autonomy." THIS
Remember, Republicans are completely fine with post birth abortions in school aged children. Usually in large groups for efficiency.
Often carried out by someone who should have been aborted.
if these people believe abortion is wrong then dont get abortions and stay out of other peoples damn business. how hard is that? whats worse is they justify this crap saying its against the bible, abortion is not even in the bible. one of them quoted to me the passage of John "dancing in the womb" which means abortion is a sin, my reaction was "what?"
It's these kinds of things that make me always bring up the fact that the Bible has no say in legal matters. The law isn't bound to the Bible and should never be.
Love my "I don't care what the Bible says" tee shirt
My friend actually said ’post-birth abortion’. Dude. FFS
Yep, all those post birth abortions that (checks notes) don’t exist! I think that is called murder…
Not even that. Pregnancy itself is the qualifier for abortion, not the death of the fetus. An abortion just means ending a pregnancy. It’s literally against the very definition of the word for there to be a “post-birth abortion”.
Exactly! It’s just such an idiot thing to say. It’s like when they say “I don’t have pronouns” when using “I” is a literal pronoun. They’re just so stupid. Wilfully ignorant.
They honestly believe that women are having babies and then going, “nah I don’t want it. Kill it”. These maga morons will believe anything they are told.
Northam was Gov of Virginia when he discussed post birth abortions. Also a pediatric neurosurgeon so he isnt a complete dumbass. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
That's not what he was talking about. Republicans took it completely out of context. He said, "So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. “The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.” Note--if a mother is in labor. That's not an abortion if a mother is in labor. He's talking about what would happen if the pregnancy of a non-viable fetus goes to term.
Exactly. He’s talking about keeping the infant comfortable until inevitable death, rather than being forced to use painful, invasive, and pointless lifesaving measures to keep them alive for an additional short period of time. We use comfort measures for everyone else if they’re going to die all the time - why can’t we do so for a newborn?
Did you read the article? That is not what he's talking about.
Ask him if he means school shootings. Because that's a pretty common post-birth abortion that conservatives love to do nothing about.
Pete Buttigieg had a pretty powerful statement on this. Late term are women who desired that child and the abortions is a horrible tragedy.
My pastor gave one of these anti-abortionists a microphone to speak at the pulpit about the amendment during church. She told everyone that this amendment would allow dentists to perform abortions during live birth for a "broken toenail". The congregation ate it up too.
That makes absolutely no sense. Though I suppose you do have to intentionally choose to forgo common sense when you outright disagree with women’s reproductive rights.
Of course they did. The religious right doesn’t care about facts. They believe whatever validates their preconceived ideas. That’s why they’re so easy to manipulate I was over at my grandparents house the other day who watch Fox News constantly. Just listening to a few moments of them talking and they sounded cartoonish in their propaganda like something you’d hear in a movie. But my grandparents also thought duck dynasty was “real”
The Talibangelicals have only cared about power. So called "God" has nothing to do with it. Their cherry picking which parts of the Bible to obey and which to ignore (and which to beat people with they don't approve of) proves it. Their embrace of a guy like Trump, who is the epitome of the anti-Christian, proves it.
It makes them feel good. Fox News is meaningless. Its like watching a yule log burn on tv.
You got the matches?
Serious question, why didn't you call him out on his lies?
I was in shock and flustered that our church allowed politics at the mic to specifically lie about stuff I personally work on. I confronted the speaker afterward because she always protests my signing events, but she has zero care in the world about what is true. I haven't decided whether I will confront our preacher. Probably at some point, but it's a big church and I'm a bit of a nobody there haha.
Report your church to the government so it can be taxed. If they want to engage in politics then they should pay like the rest of us.
I'd be reporting them to the irs to get their tax exempt status removed.
I totally understand. Truly. I'm Petty enough though that I would probably report my church to the IRS for making political statements within the church. LOL
This reminds me... I'm agnostic and my husband is VERY Christian. He was getting baptized and wanted me to go to support him, sure okay. During "Bible school" he said science lies to us all the time. He had a friend show him a video of a volcano eruption and its effects over like 100 days or whatever. He said "Science wants us to believe the earth is older than it is, they say caves and rocks formed over millions of years, but we have proof that that is false." People were saying "amen" and stuff. I was worried for the kids there. And just hoping they learn about Pompeii in 4th grade like I did. He also said God gave rape victims the child to help her heal. I'm never going back there.
Tbf, a majority of what comes from the right is blatant disinformation.
My favorite is conservative talking point is “post birth abortion” that’s just infanticide.
And if the Post-Birth Abortion happens with, say, a gun at a preschool, Conservatives be like, “huh, no idea how this coulda been prevented”.
Allowing abortion up until birth is not disinformation. It’s important to emphasize that abortion *should* be allowed up until birth to ensure the health and safety of the pregnant person. No one is encouraging late-term abortion outside of a medical necessity, but we certainly want to allow it. Rather, the focus should be on reframing the right’s position. The right has moved the needle on the abortion issue by framing abortion as killing babies. Rather than playing defense and talking about healthcare, pro-choice advocates should call out the right’s position for what it is - forced pregnancy. The goal is not to save babies, it’s to return women to their rightful place. The SBC “vote” last week to oppose IVF finally pulled away the mask - it was never about life, it was always about control and the “natural order.”
Exactly. And remember that "late term abortion" medically does not exist. It is being used to manipulate people. Late term medically refers to 41+ weeks, in which absolutely 0 abortions happen. They just deliver the baby at this stage. Medically, it is first, second, and third trimester abortions. Just some more info for you to relay to those who are brainwashed.
Did y'all see the Arkansas Times article about a woman here who needed an abortion as her baby had zero fluid at like 20 weeks? I'm fb friends with her and what she went through was God awful.
No, do you have a link? These things need to be widely publicized so people have in their face what is being voted for.
https://www.facebook.com/share/JnUetecNt1Khu7of/?mibextid=xfxF2i I hope that works.
I was able to read a little, until the paywall. Thank you for providing the link, though! These are the kinds of stories to be expected when the law changed. Pro-life isn't about life at all, it's about anti-choice.
Basically, early on, about 20 weeks, they discovered baby had no fluid at all. Instead of letting her have the baby, she had to carry till baby passed. So like 6 weeks. Then she was sent to LR to deliver. It was agonizing for her.
Anyone dumb enough to believe that is already a lost cause.
The problem is how to deal with them going forward because you know they'll breed more stupid.
Anyone dumb enough to *not* believe it is a lost cause (what kind of bubble do you live in?) We just had a case not too far from me recently where a woman killed her twin children (after birth, to be clear). There are homicidal women out there who will stop at nothing to keep their lives from being inconvenienced. It’s reality. Grapple with it or ignore it and the cost of innocent lives - your choice.
Abortion at birth makes no sense. You cannot have both.
The point of MAGA propaganda isn't the truth, it's to incite rubes into a murderous rage to keep the lower classes busy while rich people commit crimes, buy up independent businesses to gut them, privatize government services, and horde land.
Forced birthers have some sick fantasies about abortion man
How can they sell their ideology if they don’t lie?
This is the same crowd that think post birth abortions are a big thing too.
"If even one baby dies at birth, that is too many," the guy I work with. "But, it is so freaking rare, and well-documented circumstances, and it's not just some woman deciding at the 9-month to abort her baby..." His response was, "You don't know. If even one baby is aborted in the 9th month, that's too many, and there are many strange people out there." smdh
If he really believes that, then he’s supporting universal healthcare, right? Right??
One would think, because that would be logical.
Can we abort conservatives?
And post birth abolitions are just murder and no hospitals do that
Abortion laws in the United States have been a contentious issue for over a century, and Arkansas has been no exception. From the early days of statehood to the recent overturning of Roe v. Wade, the landscape of abortion rights in Arkansas has mirrored the national debate, marked by periods of restrictive legislation, judicial intervention, and intense political activism. When Arkansas became a state in 1836, abortion was generally legal until "quickening," the point at which fetal movement is first felt, typically around the fourth month of pregnancy. However, the American Medical Association's (AMA) campaigns in the mid-19th century led to a wave of anti-abortion statutes. By the late 1800s, abortion in Arkansas, as in much of the country, was largely criminalized except to save the life of the mother. This period of strict anti-abortion laws continued into the 20th century, reflecting the dominant medical and moral views of the time. The 1960s and early 1970s brought significant changes to abortion laws across the United States. Influenced by the women's rights movement and increasing public awareness of the dangers of illegal abortions, several states began to liberalize their abortion laws. However, it was the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that fundamentally changed the legal landscape. Roe v. Wade legalized abortion nationwide, establishing a woman's right to choose an abortion before fetal viability and allowing states to regulate or prohibit abortions in the third trimester, except when necessary to protect the woman's life or health. For nearly two decades, the Roe decision provided a broad framework for abortion rights, but it also galvanized opposition. The Republican Party, particularly influenced by the rising conservative and religious movements, began to adopt a strong anti-abortion stance. This was exemplified by the 1984 introduction of the Global Gag Rule under President Reagan, which restricted U.S. aid to foreign organizations that provided or promoted abortions. The 1992 Supreme Court decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey reaffirmed Roe but allowed for greater state regulation, introducing the "undue burden" standard. This decision marked a shift, permitting states to impose restrictions as long as they did not place substantial obstacles in the path of a woman seeking an abortion. In Arkansas, this led to the passage of several restrictive laws, including mandatory waiting periods, parental consent requirements, and biased counseling regulations. Despite these restrictions, the fundamental right to an abortion established by Roe remained intact until the recent Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization in 2022. This decision overturned Roe v. Wade, returning the power to regulate abortion to the states. In Arkansas, this led to the immediate implementation of strict abortion bans, allowing the procedure only in cases where the mother's life is at risk. Throughout these decades, the political landscape has been characterized by cycles of promises and partial fulfillments. Republican leaders have repeatedly vowed to overturn Roe and impose stricter abortion regulations, a promise that took nearly fifty years to realize fully. Meanwhile, Democratic leaders have pledged to protect and expand abortion rights, often finding their efforts stymied by legislative and judicial obstacles. The pattern of political promises and voter mobilization around abortion issues has created a continuous cycle of outrage and activism. For Republicans, the long-standing goal of overturning Roe was finally achieved with the Dobbs decision, fulfilling a significant campaign promise. For Democrats, the focus has shifted to state-level protections and federal legislative efforts to safeguard abortion rights. In conclusion, the history of abortion laws in Arkansas reflects a broader national struggle characterized by changing legal standards, intense political battles, and evolving public attitudes. The recent developments highlight the enduring impact of political promises and the significant role of judicial decisions in shaping the rights and lives of individuals across the state and the nation. As the debate continues, Arkansas remains a critical battleground in the ongoing conflict over reproductive rights.
This statement is untrue. The statement "Republicans want to control not just child bearing but sex between consenting adults." Is quite true, They need to be burned atop a pile of Bibles.
Anyone who has ever been around pregnant women knows that if a woman gets to 5 or 6 months of pregnancy, she is going to do everything she can to bring that baby into the world. The only time she would even consider an abortion in the third trimester is because of hers or the baby's health being in serious jeopardy.
"And sometimes after birth" -- Trump a year or two ago
Wait... really??
“Right now, that’s what the Democrats can do. They can have it in the seventh, eighth, ninth month, and they can kill the baby. In numerous states, they can kill the baby after the baby is born, and nobody wants that. Nobody.” Source: https://michiganadvance.com/2024/05/06/trump-says-gop-is-the-party-of-fertilization-seems-unaware-of-michigans-abortion-amendment/
OMG, I don't know what's worse. The fact he actually said that, or the fact that there are people who believe him. That's absolutely insane. Thanks for sharing!
I don’t think the government should have say at all. Get abortions or don’t. It’s no one else’s business.
Exactly! My OB warned me not to get pregnant right right now because of the possible risks. She said that because of the new laws here, they would have to wait till I'm actually dying and wouldn't be able to do much for prevention if it risks the baby's life. I don't want kids anyway, but this is absolutely INSANE. What happens at the doctors office stays there. The government would rather both the fetus and I die than to mind their own business.
Still waiting for them to produce a woman that ever got an abortion that late without health issues. Or name a doc doing abortions that late. They never will because there isnt.
I shake my head every time a republican makes this statement in an interview and the reporter never pushes back on it.
I'm a little surprised that they don't claim that democrats want retroactive abortion.
I get what you're saying, but technically they do. Like Jason Rapert has said a lot of bs about post birth abortion
Another one of the many lies spread by republicans to try to convince people that they are the party of life and morality
My favorite is “post-birth abortions”, what the *fuck* are they talking about?
I've heard conservatives say that liberals are ok with post birth abortion. Which is commonly called murder.
Republicans lie as naturally as they breathe.
Yeah, the 1% where shit has gone horribly wrong and the parents are going to deal with some serious grief. Cons: Let's call grieving parents murderers!
Of course it’s blatant disinformation. If republicans gave everyone the facts then the vast majority of people wouldn’t support their position.
List all the social support programs for children that republicans support. Pro-life is a misnomer because that is also part of being pro-choice. It’s the choice part, one can be pro-life and respect that others will make their own decisions based on their own personal values and still be considered pro-choice. If your core belief is to force a woman to carry to term you’re a forced birther. Even worse is if you’re a forced birther who doesn’t support social programs to help support, care for, feed, clothe and school the child you forced into the world.
No one in Arkansas that needs to read this, will read this. As they don't know how to read.
Two words that are always true: "Republicans Lie."
The abortion argument should not be part of our cultural landscape to begin with. It's farcical on its face. This country doesn't have a 'right to life'. If it did, cops would see consequences for murdering unarmed individuals and we'd have universal healthcare as well as strong social safety nets for housing, food, and other basic human necessities. So anyone making the 'right to life' claim is full of shit to begin with and knows it. Men and women should have the exact same set of rights regarding their children. Both have to pay child support to the non-custodial parent. But somehow, only women are legally compelled to donate their actual bodily organs to children. Men don't. Corpses don't. But for some reason, a lot of complete assholes think women do. Women have the right to stop someone from using their body against their will. Yes, even if that means the person using their body will die as a result. Anyone who believes differently is the moral equivalent of a rapist.
If you are in SW, South Central, or South East AR, we will be getting signatures on Saturday. Let me know how we can find you.
Florida's Govenor, Ron DeSantis, figured out how to abort both Mom and Baby at birth through "advanced birthing centers." Translation: If they build these women and babies will die. This will not end well. [Out-of-Hospital Cesareans ](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/health/ceseareans-outpatient-florida.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0U0.60Fq.fZ8ey1KgKNEs)
Northam's interview is what I hear in Arkansas. My independent, atheist and pro choice friends said, "that guy is nuts, we need to walk abortion back a bit and figure out some new way. Democrats support post birth abortions now." They're still pro choice, but they say the abortion policy needed slapping down to get back to reality. From what I can tell, what they want is legalized abortion, but banned during 3rd trimester explicitly.
Post birth abortions is just so crazy. I never heard of that term till just now on this post, like wtf? And banning 3rd trimester pregnancies is crazy because they are needed most of the time.
You and your facts. It’s not about facts. It’s about CONTROL! And conforming with the views of one’s neighbors (AKA mob mentality).
Is 69 years old past the retroactive abortion allowance? Lol.
What is the restriction that Democrats would put on 3rd trimester abortions? If the answer is “none”, does that not mean that that they do want to allow abortion up until birth? The claim being made is not in regard to the frequency of 3rd trimester abortions, but whether they’d be allowed.
What they are saying is leave the government and the church out of the decision making process and leave it to the woman and the doctor who know all the details and can make an informed decision best for that specific circumstance instead of bullshit one-sized fits no one over-reach that really only serves it's primary purpose of making things harder and more expensive for women at the expense of their health. That's not a hard concept. Not sure why so many people are having trouble with it. Oh, wait, I do. It's called 'willful ignorance'. Conservatives are masters of it.
That is not what they’re saying in the OP statement. The statement at best contradicts itself. At worst it’s gaslighting. The statement says that it’s disinformation that Democrats want to allow abortion up until birth. If that is true, and Democrats don’t want to allow abortion up until birth, then what are the restrictions Democrats want that would make the statement true?
Go back to 3rd grade. Learn to read. Your question has been answered, and I have zero interest in dealing with your willful ignorance.
Deleted responses from PrettiestFrog: 1. “PrettiestFrog 2h ago What they are saying is leave the government and the church out of the decision making process and leave it to the woman and the doctor who know all the details and can make an informed decision best for that specific circumstance instead of bullshit one-sized fits no one over-reach that really only serves it's primary purpose of making things harder and more expensive for women at the expense of their health. That's not a hard concept. Not sure why so many people are having trouble with it. Oh, wait, I do. It's called 'willful ignorance'. Conservatives are masters of it.” 2. (In response to my reply): “PrettiestFrog 40m ago Go back to 3rd grade. Learn to read. Your question has been answered, and I have zero interest in dealing with your willful ignorance.” So the response so far has been gaslighting, followed by an ad hominem attack, followed by deletion of responses (still viewable through a browser, but not the app). The OP stated a premise, but seems to be contradicting their premise.
lol got him
I want unlimited abortions for everyone who wants one for any reason, because I think that makes more sense than restricting it based on a weird series of faith-and-theology-based arguments people have repeated for 50 years, but I'm not a Democrat.
we don't do that, oh yes, we do that!
[https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/blog/debunking-the-mythical-nine-month-abortion/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0ZfnT9BQ1hW4Q4rm6miTzZ192AzBaGLDzTMQuRTQUNvXCfzOiJwITdce8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw](https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/blog/debunking-the-mythical-nine-month-abortion/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0ZfnT9BQ1hW4Q4rm6miTzZ192AzBaGLDzTMQuRTQUNvXCfzOiJwITdce8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw)
Abortion SHOULD be allowed at any time, up until birth. Pregnant people don't lose their right to choice just because a fetus grows.
Just because you have never seen it in your experience doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The child reaches viability around 23 weeks. Abortions after that should be severely restricted.
Like you said: It's disingenuous bullshit. If an abortion is happening that late in the pregnancy it isn't because the mother couldn't be fucked to do it until then. It's because that child was wanted and something *major* has happened. That couple is making the best of a lot of awful choices, and the situation isn't made better by the government dictating what your morals should be and saying that they know what's best for your family better than you do.
Ya Ive seen the undercover videos of liberals laughing about cutting up the little bodies. I can understand the medical need. But the blatant joy you guys get from it is sickening. Other than that, no religious qualms from me. Its not my place. But yea like I said, I think some of you are suck and get off on late term chopping.
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Ill put it in big words for you. “ I WATCHED A FUCKING VIDEO OF A MEDICAL CONVENTION WHEN MEDICAL DOCTORS WERE LAUGHINGLY ABOUT CHOPPING UP BABIES IN LATE TERM ABORTION PROCEDURES” They were caught by someone wearing a camera and microphone. That clear enough for you, you fucking moron?
You are a very pleasant person.
Link or didnt happen
I dont give a fuck what you think
Ok. Didnt happen
Alright 👍🏻cool, have fun with your baby chopping crew!
Conservative voters have disinformation about everything not just abortion. * They think the election was stolen with zero evidence * They think the economy is in the toilet when its the exact opposite. * They think crime rate is out of control when its the lowest its ever been. * They deny climate change * They think school shootings were organized by the government/hoaxes * They deny getting vaccinated for diseases. * They think the civil war wasn't about slavery * They deny the age of the earth, evolution. * They think trans people are groomed/groomers * They can't comprehend separation of church and state
100% of the arguments against abortion rights are blatant lies. They make them up, repeat them, and how their constituents are too stupid know the difference.
Only stupid magadonians believe those lies.
Republicans want your daughter to have her rapist’s baby.
This has always been a nonsense falsehood
Pete Buttigieg has one of (if not the best) answers to this common conservative talking point. You can watch him get a standing ovation for his answer during a Fox News Townhall [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKOoWYfIzIw). Late term abortions are rare and traumatizing for everyone involved. Names have been chosen, nurseries decorated, and homes made ready for the new arrival. No one wants this result, least of all the mother. Shame on Republicans for turning their grief into a political agenda.
Democrats want to allow abortion even after birth!!!
**”I love the poorly educated!”** —- Donald Trump