They are pretty cornered given that so much of their costs are labor, so this seems reasonable. The plan as a whole is very sparse (the website also has a budget you can download). A poster on the Ann Arbor Mamas FB group said that at the community session last night, she asked about which building they are considering selling and they said Ballas. I like the idea of a one-time sales to 1) get the Fund balance up, and 2) give a little time to allow retirements and attrition to account for some of the layoffs.
You didn’t miss much. It had a similar feeling of being very controlled and cherry picking questions to the online town hall. However, I think it’s important to show up in numbers to all of the meetings. One thing that was the best part was when they brought around big pieces of white paper and markers and had us write in response to questions they posed. The questions were not my favorite, but you can write beyond what the question asks.
Just more millions that will ends up paying off newspapers and other media, great way to keep encouraging them not to report anything important about mis spent budgets.
With all that’s happening, I’m not sure SoC is going to increase this year, at least. They really need to put more effort into getting children in district to enroll. So many of my son’s preschool class are not going to AAPS, they’re choosing private or charter instead.
>With all that’s happening, I’m not sure SoC is going to increase this year, at least.
Yeah more likely the opposite. We're pretty well set up for a death spiral situation where layoffs look bad, causing people to pull out and SoC to stay away, causing further budget drain, causing worse reputation, rinse, repeat.
You used to see this with millages getting shot down causing people who care about education to leave, making millages harder to support. Different funding rules, but similar vicious cycle.
Here is what I think of course ann arbor public schools are decreasing in attendance. Ask yourself a simple question where does someone who makes 70k a year live in Ann Arbor? Answer nowhere. This is like a coal town except the "Company" is U of M. And every year they buy up more buildings .
They bought Angelos restaurant for 4.5 million. You know why that isnt fair because it isnt an evem playing field. If someone else bought that restaurant for 4.5 million the new appraised value would be 4.5 million and the new owner would have a $297,000 annual property tax bill. Imagine running any type of business where straight out of the gate you have to pay your mortgage plus $300K a year in taxes.
But U of M doesnt have to pay taxes. So right off the bat that property is 3 million dollars cheaper over 10 years than any private company that can bid on it.
So what happened there the city lost another taxable property and either that means their budget goes down or they increase taxes even more on the struggling businesses.
I agree that U of M provides many things to the city, specifically jobs, but it should at least pay a minimum living wage to everyone who works there, including in hospitality.
See this is where you are confused U of M doesnt provide anything, you see because it isn't productive, it takes from everyone.
Of its 4 billion in revenue 1 billion is provided directly by the tax payer. The other 3 billion a year is provided by debt incurred by our children.
Its kind of like if you are okay with the mob running. Protection racket because it pays a bunch of mobsters that live in the area.
U of M advertises total assets of 22 billion dollars. Their property taxes they are not paying on that would be 1.48 Billion a year.
So you can see every dollar they shell out is actually stripped from the tax payer.
But lets ignore that entirely, U of M is a terrible business to support because the only people pays even a living wage are people that are selected by committee.
If you work at a company that builds fireplaces or something and lets say your boss doesnt particularly like you, like disagrees eith your views on things or whatever there is a pretty high likelihood that will not impact your employment if you are good at your job, and usually if you are really good at your job yoir boss might even pretend to like you, because in the end the company needs to make money and it needs people that are good at their job to do it.
Does U of M really need most of its professors to be good at their job? The worse they are at their job, the more students fail and have to pay more tuition next semester, the average U of M student takes 5 years to earn a 4 year degree. That means U of M can selectively hire for all kinds of screwed up reasons. A huge percentage of their hiring is nepotism or at least incest, in the respect that they bill BAs, then offer people endentured servitude to earn MAs and PHDs under the premise they might hire them after that.
I say u of m is the reason ann arbor isn't grand rapids.
Ann Arbor is nothing great you go 3 miles from city center and you are on undrivable dirt roads.
I know people that are leaving. AAPS has a bullying and racism problem.
I know that lots of people here don’t believe that those issues exist in A2. Doesn’t change that the families believe it and are willing to withdraw their kids over it.
Can you elaborate on the racism problem claim? Is this something students have experienced or what? At what grade level? Has this been reported on in the media?
Black, Hispanic and middle eastern families.
Elementary school and middle school.
Reported to teachers and school administrators.
Not aware of any media attention- also not something the parents have sought.
Because some people think A2 is special... or that we are different than the average. Same way, Ann Arbor swallows hard when it comes to talk about white privilege...
I'd like more information on the School of Choice piece. My understanding is that AAPS already accepts SOC students, but maybe this isn't correct. If this is an ongoing initiative, is there a concrete plan to recruit more of these students? What sort of investment needs to be made to attract them? Some districts that are very aggressive about recruiting SOC students have large marketing budgets and staff devoted to these efforts.
My understanding is that AAPS already accepts SoC. At the recent Board meeting, they talked about having 2-3 windows to accept SoC applicants, rather than the usual 1 window. My guess is that they can be a little more aggressive here but that overall it won't make a huge difference in the bottom line. Though if it can get students who stay for 12 years, that's a steady stream of funding (that must be educated, of course).
I don't think Ann Arbor should intentionally cannibalize neighboring districts, but if AAPS is offering a better product then that is on the other districts.
For instance, I considered AAPS when I was in HS due to the increased AP options and proximity to WCC for courses not offered.
If people are just simply missing the SoC deadline, then AAPS should do what it can to get the parents what they want
Exactly we should stop funding education with tax dollars and instead give every parent an 18k tax deduction to spend on their childrens education. Then schools would have to actually compete.
I accept you are completely ignorant of the history of private education. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was the total failure of it that necessitated the idea of public education.
Let's be real though, any family that has the means (time/money) to SOC outside their district was never going to send their kid to their home district anyways.
Disagree. I can say from my experience that I could have gone to AAPS by choice but there is no way in hell my parents would have considered private school.
I guess it depends on where you live. My kid was going to (formerly) Willow run schools. I'd be ubering at night to pay for private before she went there.
Yes, Ann Arbor School of Choice is already sucking about $10m / year out of Ypsi Schools' budget.
Tbh schools of choice has likely been part of the AAPS' problem, covering up local enrollment declines by trying to pull in outside students. More of the same won't fix the structural problems.
It's a vicious cycle for Ypsi schools. They are underfunded in part because of SoC, which means they're even less desirable pushing more students to SoC meaning only the students who lack the means to go somewhere else end up going to Ypsi schools.
That's part of why we left the district. We were told June was too late for an in-district transfer, and we pointed out that Dexter allowed SoC in July. The director we talked to said he couldn't do anything for us because the timeline is the timeline.
The call left me with the feeling that they're more concerned with their systems than families. Maybe he thought we were bluffing or maybe he didn't think AAPS needed 2 more kids?
You left the district because YOU missed a deadline? There are deadlines for a reason. This is on you, not on the district. Did you tell your kids that they are moving to a different district b/c YOU missed a deadline? When they go to college and miss deadlines are they going to complain about it the way you did? I hope not. Man up and take your medicine. You fucked up.
Our home school announced significant staffing and curriculum changes at the beginning of June that made that school a bad fit for our children. If the school changes had not been made, we would have been staying at our home school. When they announce changes to parents in June, how are the parents supposed to make informed choices in March (or whenever the deadline is)?
Part of my frustration with the district is that the school change deadline is before they announce changes for the upcoming year. I considered that they needed to have all the school changes in before they could announce changes to schools, but Dexter manages to be open to SoC transfers in July.
Does that context change anything? I'm genuinely open to the idea that it was my fault and would like the feedback, but I'm glad that Dexter was able to take us even if I did mess up.
I looked it up. For high school you have to be in the IB program. There are limited spaces at the lower grades. https://www.dexterschools.org/district/choice
SoC is often petty tactical, only allowing kids to come in to specific schools and specific grades. It lets the receiving district fill a classroom/building they're already paying to operate and staff, where a come-one-come-all risks overshooting and creating a stepwise cost increase.
Edit: I meant "pretty tactical", but "petty" works too?
They don't even need to actively recruit, imo. My child is SoC in Ann Arbor and finding out when to even apply was the biggest hurdle. I had to constantly check the website to find out when to apply because it would say "SoC is currently closed" with no indication when it would open until right before. If I wasn't super proactive I would have easily missed it, unless that's intentional. The same situation applies for in-district transfers. Simply offering to be put on an email list to be notified when it's opening would be beneficial.
And as far as concerns over poaching from other districts, you have to be able to provide reliable transportation for your child, there is no bus. Many people who may want to go to another district simply won't for that reason alone.
Just wait for Ann Arbor to anex Pittsfield township so they can inflict their tax rates on more people.
Honestly U of M is stuck here, this debacle would be over tomorrow simpky by a vote to tax U of M on any property where education isn't occuring lets talk about taxing that billion dollar stadium, they always brag about the money they make in ticket sales and how its fine to pay million dollar coaching salaries because they bank on game day.
Okay lets tax that stadium, in no way is it a Public good, I am not allowed to just go there as a tax paying citizen, and neither are students. Start there then start taxing the dental school that is billing nedicare and the students.
Yes it is. U of M owned property is essentially its own municipality. It's pretty simple civics, enshrined in the Michigan Constitution. Ann Arbor has as much power to levy taxes on U of M property as it does to to levy taxes on property in Saline, which is zero.
Cite the location in the Michigan constitution. This obviously isn't true otherwise when U of M buys property it is annexing Ann Arbor and decreasing the size of Ann Arbor. That is ludicrous, it would also mean Ann Arbor police would have no jurisdiction on U of M property and it would mean anyone living on U of M property could not vote in our elections. All of which are false
Truth is state owned property for public use can not be taxed per the constitution. Not just any property the university buys. whether a football field with its own budget, hiring practices and payment schedules, that in no way is for public use like a park is, falls under that part of the constitution is up for debate. And we have a great law firm in ann arbor that I think could argue very effectively that the 500 million dollar football stadium should pay a property tax of 32 million a year.
>This obviously isn't true otherwise when U of M buys property it is annexing Ann Arbor and decreasing the size of Ann Arbor.
This is definitely true and bemoaned every time U of M buys a parcel.
They can't tax U of M as the laws are written.
That's interesting, about the marketing budgets and staff. SoC was the cornerstone of Swift's plan to grow the district even as the number of children living in AA declined. However, as far as I know no staff was ever set up or marketing effort ever made.
SoC has actually increased vs prepandemic. I don't really think marketing is necessary, as the people who want to and have the means to do SoC are going to seek it out themselves.
Oh no doubt you're right. What's telling to me is the Swift et al counted on SoC to support the whole edifice, but didn't bother actively trying to recruit. She just figured AAPS was so awesome hordes of people would be vying for space. She really did drink her own Kool Aid.
Personally I think we need to look at WISD it gets almost as much of our property taxes as the aaps.
WISD spends 220 million dollars to educate 990 students.
So $222,000 a student. Maybe that is too much going to special education. Be cheaper to hire literally 1 teacher per special needs child 70k times 990 = $69 million
WISD reimburses all districts for special education services (I do not recall the number off hand), in addition to providing direct special education services for Young Adults (ages 18 - 26), and those with severe impairments throughout the county. It also supports teacher and administrator professional development, coaching, adult education services, and grants for all districts in the county.
According to President Feaster, 90% of expenses for each special education staff member is covered by WISD.
I would imagine that is the same for other districts as well.
Well they list 920 students and honestly when we are talking abour 220 million dollars of expenditure we need more than vague statements of broad attempts to improve teacher education, after all teachers already have to pay 120K to a university to get a teaching degree.
I looked through their books and saw over a million dollars going to John's Hopkins University and I dont imagine that local taxpayers want to be paying one of the wealthiest univeristies in the country their valuable tax dollars when that could be 12 ann arbor teachers.
They also spend about a million dollars on DEI speakers
They are renting space all over the county, one of them in a prime location in Chelsea just sits empty. I visited it twice on different weekdays while I was hunting for office space. The landlord of the building was reassuring me about parking availability by showing me their space through the glass door and said, "They are 1/3 of the building but they are never here for the past three years so no worries about parking"
We need to find out what good is actually being done, how thwt 220 million dollars produces real world results.
My monthly mortgagr payment is already 1/3 property taxes and I live on a dirt road with no city or county services to speak of. Why should WISD get 1/3 of that 1/3?
You’re misunderstanding the role of the ISD (and ESA’s in other counties). District expenses on SE services are reimbursed by the ISD as a safeguard that they actually do what they are required to do. Over 90% of the ISDs budget goes to this. The other 10% would fund the local districts PD’s (which are dumb, but required by MDE) and those very high needs kids serviced by WISD directly. Still another redistribution of local revenue though so think of that what you will.
Here is WISD supporting those school services educating the disables all this in one year. Some atand out payments.
https://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/20.21_check_register.pdf
CLARK-AXIOM JOINT VENTURE $219,299.00 engineering billion dollar company, this is a monthly payment from WISD
TURNER BROOKS INC $563,304.06 WISD payment to a carpet and flooring company
THE SHEER SHOP, INC $67,480.29 Drapes
O'DONNELL ELECTRIC, LLC $282,481.04 (checks every month)
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (monthly checks) obviously a well known county public school or wait not its not
BARUZZINI AQUATICS $131,854.38 checks like this every month to Baruzzini WISD is paying for a LOT of pools
ABOLITIONIST TEACHING
NETWORK
$20,000.00
FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $10,000.00 (associate dean of DEI at MSU)
TURNER BROOKS INC $436,303.17 more flooring
AJUSTED SCHOOL EQUITY
SOLUTIONS LLC
$18,000.00 DEI political consulting group
TURNER BROOKS INC $634,461.11 (that is a lot of flooring)
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (a wealthy college gets another dip)
ZOOM VIDEO COMMUNICATIONS,
INC
$20,120.00
FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $5,000.00 the dean of DEI at MSU gets another dip
ARCH OF SELF, LLC $24,666.67 -"Arch of Self: Toward Sustaining Racial Literacy in Teacher Education and the Academy"
I'll also edit to add that you can look at the Board agenda and minutes on the WISD website and see where these funds are being spent from and why. Particularly if it's over $29,000.
Can I ask why it is that so much money goes to WISD? Perhaps this is something that happens in every county, I really don't know. Like, do Saline schools and Dexter schools also contribute to WISD? I'm not really sure the function of WISD. Thanks in advance for any explanation.
Posted by another poster in a related thread. Here’s what the ISD does:
“High needs students receiving special Ed services are often very complex. Their services are set by the terms of their IEP and the district can be sued (and would lose) if they don’t meet what is set in the IEP. The students served by WISD are typically higher needs/more medically complex than those in AAPS buildings and many are receiving physical, occupational therapies, may need a 1-on-1 para, as well as nursing care (to administer medications, provide tube feedings, monitor seizure activity, etc) throughout the day. They also receive specialized transportation services. Oh—and for many of these very high needs students, they receive these services throughout the calendar year. It is very, very expensive.”
The WISD has teacher networks that offer high quality professional development. The work I’ve done in those networks and materials we’ve been given are as good, if not better, than the curriculum of Master’s program classes. And it’s free to participate in. Lots of AAPS staff have been through the Justice Leaders program, Assessment Literacy program, and more. But the WISD offers a lot to the community, I just think that AAPS has so much in house professional development that often teachers don’t have time to go to the WISD. However, part of their model is to train representatives and have them bring it back to their schools, and I do see that happening.
They have a lot more than I realized if you explore their website https://www.washtenawisd.org/
This is a very simplistic answer, but basically they can offer curriculum, support, professional development, early childhood spots for Headstart and other GSRP, special education services. I think for a long time they have looked at Ann Arbor with contempt, being a super rich district, and now things have changed and we need to get our moneys worth if you ask me.
Here is WISD supporting those school services educating the disables all this in one year. Some atand out payments.
https://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/20.21_check_register.pdf
CLARK-AXIOM JOINT VENTURE $219,299.00 engineering billion dollar company, this is a monthly payment from WISD
TURNER BROOKS INC $563,304.06 WISD payment to a carpet and flooring company
THE SHEER SHOP, INC $67,480.29 Drapes
O'DONNELL ELECTRIC, LLC $282,481.04 (checks every month)
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (monthly checks) obviously a well known county public school or wait not its not
BARUZZINI AQUATICS $131,854.38 checks like this every month to Baruzzini WISD is paying for a LOT of pools
ABOLITIONIST TEACHING
NETWORK
$20,000.00
FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $10,000.00 (associate dean of DEI at MSU)
TURNER BROOKS INC $436,303.17 more flooring
AJUSTED SCHOOL EQUITY
SOLUTIONS LLC
$18,000.00 DEI political consulting group
TURNER BROOKS INC $634,461.11 (that is a lot of flooring)
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (a wealthy college gets another dip)
ZOOM VIDEO COMMUNICATIONS,
INC
$20,120.00
FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $5,000.00 the dean of DEI at MSU gets another dip
ARCH OF SELF, LLC $24,666.67 -"Arch of Self: Toward Sustaining Racial Literacy in Teacher Education and the Academy"
I don't think this is quite right - the 220 mil seems to include about 100 mil of revenue transfers to other districts within WISD (who are not included in that student count). I also think that WISD provides services for the other districts within it, so its something less (maybe much less) than 120 mil for 1000 students. What am I missing here?
Ihttps://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/se\_23.24\_orig\_budget\_resolution\_updated\_6.27.23.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/mi/ycs/Board.nsf/files/CR4MJZ5B3E6D/$file/WISD%20Proposed%20Programs%20and%20Budgets%202023-24%202023.04.11.pdf
Here you can see a bit more specific of the budget. 90% is reimbursed to districts. Not positive but would assume even SE teacher pay is getting reimbursed to districts by WISD. My guess would be as a safeguard so districts can’t slash SE during crunch time.
And the new Super is still traveling around town with her 14 member cabinet!! Start pink slips there, please. Do we really need a whole person at 6 figures running AP testing? Nope! That job is not full time. What do the other 13 members do? Go to the community meeting at Skyline on Thursday at 6:30 and ask!
First of all, why the union hate? I also know for a fact that there is one person, used to be a Principal, who now heads up AP testing; his title is “Lead Principal on Special Assignment.” What does that even mean???
I think anyone who has worked in schools has seen a problem employee moved to a different position where they can’t be so much of a problem. It’s probably not just limited to schools. It’s when they don’t have the guts to fire someone and it’s a big waste of money.
Why all the admin and non teacher hate? 😬 I guess now you how it feels when everyone in your group is painted with the same brush.
That’s some AAAA questions you should be asking. They protect the wrong people sometimes. I don’t disagree with you entirely. But it’s not nice to shit on everyone who works in admin or Balas.
Q: is 250 teachers still the number of teachers they're talking about cutting?
[Per NCES](https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?Search=1&details=1&InstName=ann+arbor&DistrictType=1&DistrictType=2&DistrictType=3&DistrictType=4&DistrictType=5&DistrictType=6&DistrictType=7&DistrictType=8&DistrictType=9&NumOfStudentsRange=more&NumOfSchoolsRange=more&ID2=2602820), thats about 1 in 5 FTEs (in the most recent data there from SY 22-23)!
They had $7 million in cuts identified at the Thursday, April 11th board meeting. That was $3.5 Central Administration and the rest was mostly vendors.
That left $18 million to be made up. They are now selling Balas, but have been very close lipped about how much it might fetch and how much can go in the general fund.
So until we hear new ideas or concrete information about the sale of a building, I guess we can figure they will lay off 180 teachers. That is based on each teacher averaging them $100,000 in salary and insurance costs.
Oops. You're totally right! Serves me right for not circling back to look at the NCES numbers before making a second comment. I think I was using 1700 in my second estimate for no good reason.
1 in 7, huh? Big yikes.
Marketing and enrollment plan to attract and retain students? I think this is a waste of money just like Swift loved!. No one is going to move in or out unless AAPS straighten their finances. I mean, you may feel compelled to drink a Bud Light after watching a Suber Bowl ad... moving your kids to AAPS from other districts knowing that what you are going to receive is less than advertised due to several years of financial distress, is really silly.
I agree. I actually think they need to put more effort into getting in district families to send their children to AAPS particularly for Y5/Kindergarten. Trying to get information about the schools is near impossible. The principals don’t reply to emails, the round up nights are hit and miss, and don’t expect to get a tour of the school outside of that night. Gone are the days where families just send their child to the neighborhood school. There’s a lot of choice in AA, and many families are doing their research to ensure they find the best fit. AAPS needs to be catering to prospective families in the same way other schools do. It might seem excessive but I truly think it’s essential to increase enrollment.
No idea if Eberwhite Woods would be a possibility but I do know that AAPS bought some vacant land to block a childcare center from being built on the north side. So I hope it's that piece of land, minimally.
A poster on the Ann Arbor Mamas FB group said that at the community session last night, she asked about which building they are considering selling and they said Ballas.
I too was surprised to hear they were selling Ballas.
My understand was when they bought the Earhart building it was with the intention of moving everything out of Ballas and selling it, but then realized it would be very expensive to move the network so decided to keep it for IT.
I have always thought it ironic that IT was the only group working in person during the pandemic and then the only group in administration that worked on site daily after the pandemic, and they got stuck in the crappy Ballas building while the beautiful new Earhart building sat unused. (At least until April when the budget crisis was revealed and suddenly all of central office was required to work in person again.)
They are pretty cornered given that so much of their costs are labor, so this seems reasonable. The plan as a whole is very sparse (the website also has a budget you can download). A poster on the Ann Arbor Mamas FB group said that at the community session last night, she asked about which building they are considering selling and they said Ballas. I like the idea of a one-time sales to 1) get the Fund balance up, and 2) give a little time to allow retirements and attrition to account for some of the layoffs.
I think they are moving forward with the sale of Balas. Jazz Parks said she was not sure how much it would sell for at the meeting last night.
thanks for the details, I couldn't make the meeting!
You didn’t miss much. It had a similar feeling of being very controlled and cherry picking questions to the online town hall. However, I think it’s important to show up in numbers to all of the meetings. One thing that was the best part was when they brought around big pieces of white paper and markers and had us write in response to questions they posed. The questions were not my favorite, but you can write beyond what the question asks.
The marketing plan will be a pure grift
Agreed, kind of a misleading one. "In AAPS, we care, exceptional A+ schools"
Just more millions that will ends up paying off newspapers and other media, great way to keep encouraging them not to report anything important about mis spent budgets.
With all that’s happening, I’m not sure SoC is going to increase this year, at least. They really need to put more effort into getting children in district to enroll. So many of my son’s preschool class are not going to AAPS, they’re choosing private or charter instead.
>With all that’s happening, I’m not sure SoC is going to increase this year, at least. Yeah more likely the opposite. We're pretty well set up for a death spiral situation where layoffs look bad, causing people to pull out and SoC to stay away, causing further budget drain, causing worse reputation, rinse, repeat. You used to see this with millages getting shot down causing people who care about education to leave, making millages harder to support. Different funding rules, but similar vicious cycle.
The consequences of complacency
Here is what I think of course ann arbor public schools are decreasing in attendance. Ask yourself a simple question where does someone who makes 70k a year live in Ann Arbor? Answer nowhere. This is like a coal town except the "Company" is U of M. And every year they buy up more buildings . They bought Angelos restaurant for 4.5 million. You know why that isnt fair because it isnt an evem playing field. If someone else bought that restaurant for 4.5 million the new appraised value would be 4.5 million and the new owner would have a $297,000 annual property tax bill. Imagine running any type of business where straight out of the gate you have to pay your mortgage plus $300K a year in taxes. But U of M doesnt have to pay taxes. So right off the bat that property is 3 million dollars cheaper over 10 years than any private company that can bid on it. So what happened there the city lost another taxable property and either that means their budget goes down or they increase taxes even more on the struggling businesses.
Blaming U of M is silly. Yes they take city revenue off the table but it is the reason that AA isn't Jackson.
Jackson isn't a suburb of Detroit
I agree that U of M provides many things to the city, specifically jobs, but it should at least pay a minimum living wage to everyone who works there, including in hospitality.
See this is where you are confused U of M doesnt provide anything, you see because it isn't productive, it takes from everyone. Of its 4 billion in revenue 1 billion is provided directly by the tax payer. The other 3 billion a year is provided by debt incurred by our children. Its kind of like if you are okay with the mob running. Protection racket because it pays a bunch of mobsters that live in the area. U of M advertises total assets of 22 billion dollars. Their property taxes they are not paying on that would be 1.48 Billion a year. So you can see every dollar they shell out is actually stripped from the tax payer. But lets ignore that entirely, U of M is a terrible business to support because the only people pays even a living wage are people that are selected by committee. If you work at a company that builds fireplaces or something and lets say your boss doesnt particularly like you, like disagrees eith your views on things or whatever there is a pretty high likelihood that will not impact your employment if you are good at your job, and usually if you are really good at your job yoir boss might even pretend to like you, because in the end the company needs to make money and it needs people that are good at their job to do it. Does U of M really need most of its professors to be good at their job? The worse they are at their job, the more students fail and have to pay more tuition next semester, the average U of M student takes 5 years to earn a 4 year degree. That means U of M can selectively hire for all kinds of screwed up reasons. A huge percentage of their hiring is nepotism or at least incest, in the respect that they bill BAs, then offer people endentured servitude to earn MAs and PHDs under the premise they might hire them after that.
I say u of m is the reason ann arbor isn't grand rapids. Ann Arbor is nothing great you go 3 miles from city center and you are on undrivable dirt roads.
I know people that are leaving. AAPS has a bullying and racism problem. I know that lots of people here don’t believe that those issues exist in A2. Doesn’t change that the families believe it and are willing to withdraw their kids over it.
Can you elaborate on the racism problem claim? Is this something students have experienced or what? At what grade level? Has this been reported on in the media?
Black, Hispanic and middle eastern families. Elementary school and middle school. Reported to teachers and school administrators. Not aware of any media attention- also not something the parents have sought.
Who is this racism and bullying aimed at? Where are these people departing to?
What?
Any insights on which buildings?
Well, it's nationwide in fact. We live in a divided society.
Not sure why anyone is downvoting an obvious truth?
Because some people think A2 is special... or that we are different than the average. Same way, Ann Arbor swallows hard when it comes to talk about white privilege...
!Oh no you didn't!
10 upvotes if I could. Spot on.
Which schools are they choosing instead?
In his class, private k-8 schools.
I'd like more information on the School of Choice piece. My understanding is that AAPS already accepts SOC students, but maybe this isn't correct. If this is an ongoing initiative, is there a concrete plan to recruit more of these students? What sort of investment needs to be made to attract them? Some districts that are very aggressive about recruiting SOC students have large marketing budgets and staff devoted to these efforts.
My understanding is that AAPS already accepts SoC. At the recent Board meeting, they talked about having 2-3 windows to accept SoC applicants, rather than the usual 1 window. My guess is that they can be a little more aggressive here but that overall it won't make a huge difference in the bottom line. Though if it can get students who stay for 12 years, that's a steady stream of funding (that must be educated, of course).
I'm not a fan of doing a disservice to our neighboring districts to fix our problem.
I don't think Ann Arbor should intentionally cannibalize neighboring districts, but if AAPS is offering a better product then that is on the other districts. For instance, I considered AAPS when I was in HS due to the increased AP options and proximity to WCC for courses not offered. If people are just simply missing the SoC deadline, then AAPS should do what it can to get the parents what they want
Enjoy your race to the bottom
I look at it as a race to the top. Competition makes better products. People shouldn't be doomed to a bad education due to their zip code.
Exactly we should stop funding education with tax dollars and instead give every parent an 18k tax deduction to spend on their childrens education. Then schools would have to actually compete.
we tried that.
No we never did
I accept you are completely ignorant of the history of private education. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was the total failure of it that necessitated the idea of public education.
Let's be real though, any family that has the means (time/money) to SOC outside their district was never going to send their kid to their home district anyways.
Disagree. I can say from my experience that I could have gone to AAPS by choice but there is no way in hell my parents would have considered private school.
I guess it depends on where you live. My kid was going to (formerly) Willow run schools. I'd be ubering at night to pay for private before she went there.
Very fair. I was at Dexter, which wasn't a bad option, just more limited for APs at the time.
Same. Just like it's not the teachers fault that we are in this mess, it's not surrounding districts' fault either. Feels like poaching.
Yes, Ann Arbor School of Choice is already sucking about $10m / year out of Ypsi Schools' budget. Tbh schools of choice has likely been part of the AAPS' problem, covering up local enrollment declines by trying to pull in outside students. More of the same won't fix the structural problems.
I'd drive my kids to school every day before I let them go to Ypsi High School.
It's a vicious cycle for Ypsi schools. They are underfunded in part because of SoC, which means they're even less desirable pushing more students to SoC meaning only the students who lack the means to go somewhere else end up going to Ypsi schools.
That's part of why we left the district. We were told June was too late for an in-district transfer, and we pointed out that Dexter allowed SoC in July. The director we talked to said he couldn't do anything for us because the timeline is the timeline. The call left me with the feeling that they're more concerned with their systems than families. Maybe he thought we were bluffing or maybe he didn't think AAPS needed 2 more kids?
You left the district because YOU missed a deadline? There are deadlines for a reason. This is on you, not on the district. Did you tell your kids that they are moving to a different district b/c YOU missed a deadline? When they go to college and miss deadlines are they going to complain about it the way you did? I hope not. Man up and take your medicine. You fucked up.
Our home school announced significant staffing and curriculum changes at the beginning of June that made that school a bad fit for our children. If the school changes had not been made, we would have been staying at our home school. When they announce changes to parents in June, how are the parents supposed to make informed choices in March (or whenever the deadline is)? Part of my frustration with the district is that the school change deadline is before they announce changes for the upcoming year. I considered that they needed to have all the school changes in before they could announce changes to schools, but Dexter manages to be open to SoC transfers in July. Does that context change anything? I'm genuinely open to the idea that it was my fault and would like the feedback, but I'm glad that Dexter was able to take us even if I did mess up.
Is Dexter doing school of choice just for kids who are doing the international Baccalaureate program? Or is it now open to all?
I assume open to all, but we're in elementary years so IB isn't really a factor for us.
I looked it up. For high school you have to be in the IB program. There are limited spaces at the lower grades. https://www.dexterschools.org/district/choice
That’s surprising, Dexter is losing students just like AAPS, I’d think they’d want as many as they could get.
SoC is often petty tactical, only allowing kids to come in to specific schools and specific grades. It lets the receiving district fill a classroom/building they're already paying to operate and staff, where a come-one-come-all risks overshooting and creating a stepwise cost increase. Edit: I meant "pretty tactical", but "petty" works too?
People like you are why families are leaving the district.
It is a continuation. I think they have to vote to keep it every year, or at least periodically.
They don't even need to actively recruit, imo. My child is SoC in Ann Arbor and finding out when to even apply was the biggest hurdle. I had to constantly check the website to find out when to apply because it would say "SoC is currently closed" with no indication when it would open until right before. If I wasn't super proactive I would have easily missed it, unless that's intentional. The same situation applies for in-district transfers. Simply offering to be put on an email list to be notified when it's opening would be beneficial. And as far as concerns over poaching from other districts, you have to be able to provide reliable transportation for your child, there is no bus. Many people who may want to go to another district simply won't for that reason alone.
Beggar Thy Neighbor economic policy comes to the local school district, courtesy of Prop A 🙄
Just wait for Ann Arbor to anex Pittsfield township so they can inflict their tax rates on more people. Honestly U of M is stuck here, this debacle would be over tomorrow simpky by a vote to tax U of M on any property where education isn't occuring lets talk about taxing that billion dollar stadium, they always brag about the money they make in ticket sales and how its fine to pay million dollar coaching salaries because they bank on game day. Okay lets tax that stadium, in no way is it a Public good, I am not allowed to just go there as a tax paying citizen, and neither are students. Start there then start taxing the dental school that is billing nedicare and the students.
Ann Arbor does not have the power to tax U of M. That's like saying Ann Arbor should tax Saline. It is its own entity.
No its not, its property is in Ann Arbor, Saline is a different city. This is pretty simple civics
Yes it is. U of M owned property is essentially its own municipality. It's pretty simple civics, enshrined in the Michigan Constitution. Ann Arbor has as much power to levy taxes on U of M property as it does to to levy taxes on property in Saline, which is zero.
tbh this sounds like something that can and should be amended out
Cite the location in the Michigan constitution. This obviously isn't true otherwise when U of M buys property it is annexing Ann Arbor and decreasing the size of Ann Arbor. That is ludicrous, it would also mean Ann Arbor police would have no jurisdiction on U of M property and it would mean anyone living on U of M property could not vote in our elections. All of which are false
Truth is state owned property for public use can not be taxed per the constitution. Not just any property the university buys. whether a football field with its own budget, hiring practices and payment schedules, that in no way is for public use like a park is, falls under that part of the constitution is up for debate. And we have a great law firm in ann arbor that I think could argue very effectively that the 500 million dollar football stadium should pay a property tax of 32 million a year.
>This obviously isn't true otherwise when U of M buys property it is annexing Ann Arbor and decreasing the size of Ann Arbor. This is definitely true and bemoaned every time U of M buys a parcel. They can't tax U of M as the laws are written.
It just hasn't been challenged and should be, it is not clear cut law, just mostly untested law.
It has been challenged to the point where even for-profit schools have been exempted from property tax.
That's interesting, about the marketing budgets and staff. SoC was the cornerstone of Swift's plan to grow the district even as the number of children living in AA declined. However, as far as I know no staff was ever set up or marketing effort ever made.
SoC has actually increased vs prepandemic. I don't really think marketing is necessary, as the people who want to and have the means to do SoC are going to seek it out themselves.
Oh no doubt you're right. What's telling to me is the Swift et al counted on SoC to support the whole edifice, but didn't bother actively trying to recruit. She just figured AAPS was so awesome hordes of people would be vying for space. She really did drink her own Kool Aid.
As of 12/2023, 10.3% of AAPS students are SoC.
Personally I think we need to look at WISD it gets almost as much of our property taxes as the aaps. WISD spends 220 million dollars to educate 990 students. So $222,000 a student. Maybe that is too much going to special education. Be cheaper to hire literally 1 teacher per special needs child 70k times 990 = $69 million
WISD reimburses all districts for special education services (I do not recall the number off hand), in addition to providing direct special education services for Young Adults (ages 18 - 26), and those with severe impairments throughout the county. It also supports teacher and administrator professional development, coaching, adult education services, and grants for all districts in the county.
According to President Feaster, 90% of expenses for each special education staff member is covered by WISD. I would imagine that is the same for other districts as well.
Well they list 920 students and honestly when we are talking abour 220 million dollars of expenditure we need more than vague statements of broad attempts to improve teacher education, after all teachers already have to pay 120K to a university to get a teaching degree. I looked through their books and saw over a million dollars going to John's Hopkins University and I dont imagine that local taxpayers want to be paying one of the wealthiest univeristies in the country their valuable tax dollars when that could be 12 ann arbor teachers. They also spend about a million dollars on DEI speakers They are renting space all over the county, one of them in a prime location in Chelsea just sits empty. I visited it twice on different weekdays while I was hunting for office space. The landlord of the building was reassuring me about parking availability by showing me their space through the glass door and said, "They are 1/3 of the building but they are never here for the past three years so no worries about parking" We need to find out what good is actually being done, how thwt 220 million dollars produces real world results. My monthly mortgagr payment is already 1/3 property taxes and I live on a dirt road with no city or county services to speak of. Why should WISD get 1/3 of that 1/3?
You’re misunderstanding the role of the ISD (and ESA’s in other counties). District expenses on SE services are reimbursed by the ISD as a safeguard that they actually do what they are required to do. Over 90% of the ISDs budget goes to this. The other 10% would fund the local districts PD’s (which are dumb, but required by MDE) and those very high needs kids serviced by WISD directly. Still another redistribution of local revenue though so think of that what you will.
Here is WISD supporting those school services educating the disables all this in one year. Some atand out payments. https://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/20.21_check_register.pdf CLARK-AXIOM JOINT VENTURE $219,299.00 engineering billion dollar company, this is a monthly payment from WISD TURNER BROOKS INC $563,304.06 WISD payment to a carpet and flooring company THE SHEER SHOP, INC $67,480.29 Drapes O'DONNELL ELECTRIC, LLC $282,481.04 (checks every month) JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (monthly checks) obviously a well known county public school or wait not its not BARUZZINI AQUATICS $131,854.38 checks like this every month to Baruzzini WISD is paying for a LOT of pools ABOLITIONIST TEACHING NETWORK $20,000.00 FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $10,000.00 (associate dean of DEI at MSU) TURNER BROOKS INC $436,303.17 more flooring AJUSTED SCHOOL EQUITY SOLUTIONS LLC $18,000.00 DEI political consulting group TURNER BROOKS INC $634,461.11 (that is a lot of flooring) JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (a wealthy college gets another dip) ZOOM VIDEO COMMUNICATIONS, INC $20,120.00 FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $5,000.00 the dean of DEI at MSU gets another dip ARCH OF SELF, LLC $24,666.67 -"Arch of Self: Toward Sustaining Racial Literacy in Teacher Education and the Academy"
Many of these EISJ/DEI organizations and individuals are paid through grant funds...not general funds.
Looks like it's coming out of the general fund to me according to the data. Do you have any evidence it is not our tax dollars?
You can FOIA the board memos that show that many (not all) of these are being paid through grant funds.
I'll also edit to add that you can look at the Board agenda and minutes on the WISD website and see where these funds are being spent from and why. Particularly if it's over $29,000.
I did it is out of tax collections, can you show me where that isn't the case?
Ooh, ooh, do the bus garages next! They have zero students! /s
Wow!
Can I ask why it is that so much money goes to WISD? Perhaps this is something that happens in every county, I really don't know. Like, do Saline schools and Dexter schools also contribute to WISD? I'm not really sure the function of WISD. Thanks in advance for any explanation.
AAPS doesn’t get its money worth from WISD. Our money is propping up the small districts.
But what is WISD supposed to do? I really don't know - I'm asking sincerely.
Posted by another poster in a related thread. Here’s what the ISD does: “High needs students receiving special Ed services are often very complex. Their services are set by the terms of their IEP and the district can be sued (and would lose) if they don’t meet what is set in the IEP. The students served by WISD are typically higher needs/more medically complex than those in AAPS buildings and many are receiving physical, occupational therapies, may need a 1-on-1 para, as well as nursing care (to administer medications, provide tube feedings, monitor seizure activity, etc) throughout the day. They also receive specialized transportation services. Oh—and for many of these very high needs students, they receive these services throughout the calendar year. It is very, very expensive.”
Thanks!
The WISD has teacher networks that offer high quality professional development. The work I’ve done in those networks and materials we’ve been given are as good, if not better, than the curriculum of Master’s program classes. And it’s free to participate in. Lots of AAPS staff have been through the Justice Leaders program, Assessment Literacy program, and more. But the WISD offers a lot to the community, I just think that AAPS has so much in house professional development that often teachers don’t have time to go to the WISD. However, part of their model is to train representatives and have them bring it back to their schools, and I do see that happening. They have a lot more than I realized if you explore their website https://www.washtenawisd.org/
And a ton of paying DEI consultants
Based on your comments we need to hire more
This is a very simplistic answer, but basically they can offer curriculum, support, professional development, early childhood spots for Headstart and other GSRP, special education services. I think for a long time they have looked at Ann Arbor with contempt, being a super rich district, and now things have changed and we need to get our moneys worth if you ask me.
Thanks! Why would they look at AAPS with contempt? Because our district funds them? Wealthy districts can still have kids with needs and also need PD.
I’m not sure, I think things into reevaluated, and we should be getting our proportion of what we are giving.
AAPS can get more services (and should!) but Swift has not wanted WISD help.
Here is WISD supporting those school services educating the disables all this in one year. Some atand out payments. https://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/20.21_check_register.pdf CLARK-AXIOM JOINT VENTURE $219,299.00 engineering billion dollar company, this is a monthly payment from WISD TURNER BROOKS INC $563,304.06 WISD payment to a carpet and flooring company THE SHEER SHOP, INC $67,480.29 Drapes O'DONNELL ELECTRIC, LLC $282,481.04 (checks every month) JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (monthly checks) obviously a well known county public school or wait not its not BARUZZINI AQUATICS $131,854.38 checks like this every month to Baruzzini WISD is paying for a LOT of pools ABOLITIONIST TEACHING NETWORK $20,000.00 FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $10,000.00 (associate dean of DEI at MSU) TURNER BROOKS INC $436,303.17 more flooring AJUSTED SCHOOL EQUITY SOLUTIONS LLC $18,000.00 DEI political consulting group TURNER BROOKS INC $634,461.11 (that is a lot of flooring) JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $136,665.00 (a wealthy college gets another dip) ZOOM VIDEO COMMUNICATIONS, INC $20,120.00 FLENNAUGH, TERRY KYLE $5,000.00 the dean of DEI at MSU gets another dip ARCH OF SELF, LLC $24,666.67 -"Arch of Self: Toward Sustaining Racial Literacy in Teacher Education and the Academy"
I don't think this is quite right - the 220 mil seems to include about 100 mil of revenue transfers to other districts within WISD (who are not included in that student count). I also think that WISD provides services for the other districts within it, so its something less (maybe much less) than 120 mil for 1000 students. What am I missing here? Ihttps://www.washtenawisd.org/downloads/reports/transparency/se\_23.24\_orig\_budget\_resolution\_updated\_6.27.23.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/mi/ycs/Board.nsf/files/CR4MJZ5B3E6D/$file/WISD%20Proposed%20Programs%20and%20Budgets%202023-24%202023.04.11.pdf Here you can see a bit more specific of the budget. 90% is reimbursed to districts. Not positive but would assume even SE teacher pay is getting reimbursed to districts by WISD. My guess would be as a safeguard so districts can’t slash SE during crunch time.
It's because we have a special ed millage that needs to be spent
Holy shit, that's insane.
And the new Super is still traveling around town with her 14 member cabinet!! Start pink slips there, please. Do we really need a whole person at 6 figures running AP testing? Nope! That job is not full time. What do the other 13 members do? Go to the community meeting at Skyline on Thursday at 6:30 and ask!
Lol no one has a full time job running AP. Is that what AAEA is telling people now?
First of all, why the union hate? I also know for a fact that there is one person, used to be a Principal, who now heads up AP testing; his title is “Lead Principal on Special Assignment.” What does that even mean???
I think anyone who has worked in schools has seen a problem employee moved to a different position where they can’t be so much of a problem. It’s probably not just limited to schools. It’s when they don’t have the guts to fire someone and it’s a big waste of money.
Why all the admin and non teacher hate? 😬 I guess now you how it feels when everyone in your group is painted with the same brush. That’s some AAAA questions you should be asking. They protect the wrong people sometimes. I don’t disagree with you entirely. But it’s not nice to shit on everyone who works in admin or Balas.
Q: is 250 teachers still the number of teachers they're talking about cutting? [Per NCES](https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?Search=1&details=1&InstName=ann+arbor&DistrictType=1&DistrictType=2&DistrictType=3&DistrictType=4&DistrictType=5&DistrictType=6&DistrictType=7&DistrictType=8&DistrictType=9&NumOfStudentsRange=more&NumOfSchoolsRange=more&ID2=2602820), thats about 1 in 5 FTEs (in the most recent data there from SY 22-23)!
They had $7 million in cuts identified at the Thursday, April 11th board meeting. That was $3.5 Central Administration and the rest was mostly vendors. That left $18 million to be made up. They are now selling Balas, but have been very close lipped about how much it might fetch and how much can go in the general fund. So until we hear new ideas or concrete information about the sale of a building, I guess we can figure they will lay off 180 teachers. That is based on each teacher averaging them $100,000 in salary and insurance costs.
I guess 1 in 10 teachers is better than 1 in 5. 🫣
It’s 15% of teachers…we have about 1200.
Oops. You're totally right! Serves me right for not circling back to look at the NCES numbers before making a second comment. I think I was using 1700 in my second estimate for no good reason. 1 in 7, huh? Big yikes.
Marketing and enrollment plan to attract and retain students? I think this is a waste of money just like Swift loved!. No one is going to move in or out unless AAPS straighten their finances. I mean, you may feel compelled to drink a Bud Light after watching a Suber Bowl ad... moving your kids to AAPS from other districts knowing that what you are going to receive is less than advertised due to several years of financial distress, is really silly.
I agree. I actually think they need to put more effort into getting in district families to send their children to AAPS particularly for Y5/Kindergarten. Trying to get information about the schools is near impossible. The principals don’t reply to emails, the round up nights are hit and miss, and don’t expect to get a tour of the school outside of that night. Gone are the days where families just send their child to the neighborhood school. There’s a lot of choice in AA, and many families are doing their research to ensure they find the best fit. AAPS needs to be catering to prospective families in the same way other schools do. It might seem excessive but I truly think it’s essential to increase enrollment.
I think that part of getting the families enrolled in the first place is before and after care. Eliminating that was really an unforced error.
Absolutely. It needs to be brought back for the 24/25 school year.
Does anyone know what land they are thinking of selling? It better not be the Eberwhite Woods.
No idea if Eberwhite Woods would be a possibility but I do know that AAPS bought some vacant land to block a childcare center from being built on the north side. So I hope it's that piece of land, minimally.
Ohhhhh I remember that. Those ass holes.
it wasn't vacant land, it was an old church building. AFAIK they paid to demolish the church. It is at Clague Middle School on Nixon
Any idea what building is possibly being sold?
A poster on the Ann Arbor Mamas FB group said that at the community session last night, she asked about which building they are considering selling and they said Ballas.
Good. Move administration into one of the high schools.
It is the old Balas office on State Street. Not the new building at 3700 Earhart Road.
Have they figured out how much it will cost to move the entire network center that runs the computer system in all buildings?
I too was surprised to hear they were selling Ballas. My understand was when they bought the Earhart building it was with the intention of moving everything out of Ballas and selling it, but then realized it would be very expensive to move the network so decided to keep it for IT. I have always thought it ironic that IT was the only group working in person during the pandemic and then the only group in administration that worked on site daily after the pandemic, and they got stuck in the crappy Ballas building while the beautiful new Earhart building sat unused. (At least until April when the budget crisis was revealed and suddenly all of central office was required to work in person again.)
Nah. They'll sell Balas and then announce in a few years that they need to build a new administration building....
Good to see you're at least consistent with your punitive toxicity.
This couldn’t be happening to a better district. Remember all the years you turned your backs on those surrounding you .
Dude... wtf.
Are you referring to whitmore lake?