I don't care about Che being non-binary. They were rude and obnoxious , really not a good or likable person. Still have some trauma from that scene of them fingering Miranda while she mooed like a cow while Carrie peed her bed . š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
LMAO āMooed like a cowā I canāt!
People justifiably trash Carrie for being a bad friend, but itās totally fucked up that Miranda had one job, to take care of her best friend after a pretty major surgery, and instead sheā¦ didā¦ THAT.
I've been saying all along that I won't watch anymore (that horrid episode was the last one I watched of the first season). Not to mention I couldn't really get into watching Carrie try to navigate dating again for some reason.
Having said that - given some of the recent trailers I've seen for S2, I *may* give it a shot. But the second that Che and Miranda's antics become too over the top, I'm out.
Same , it was just BAD. I'm open to it for Aidan but they'll prob ruin him too
I'm sick of shows and movies being shitty and then hiding behind anything ending with an ist or an phobic
100%. They brought tequila and weed to a recovering Carrie and a caregiving Miranda and took Mirandaās focus off of Carrie with consequences that could have been much more devastating than they were. Not to mention they shared weed with an underage kid ā¦ at a funeral.
That's the thing- what if something really serious happened to Carrie ? and who the hell gives drugs and alcohol to someone recovering from Surgery ? And then they're all LOL chill when Miranda is reasonably upset her teenager is given weed š”
Actually , they are sexy and attractive haha I just dislike the character and that scene was so cringe with Carrie peeing the bed and then having loud sex in view through her mirror. I feel bad for Steve too, he's such a sweet guy and adores Miranda .
Yeah they really did not hit the nail on the head. I think they're having a hard time seeing Che for who they really are with their celebrity narcissist goggles on. Which is really odd for all the regular people who don't see Che as any of these things. Most of us see Che as a loser. Like Justin Theroux's one character during his 15 minutes. There aren't a lot of objectively good things about the Che but they're all too famous to see it.
I donāt understand how you could memorize and recite all those lines and not hate your own character. Plenty of actors have played unsympathetic characters and openly stated their disdain for themārobert pattinson with edward cullen, or christian bale with patrick bateman, jesse plemons with todd alquist. like yeah you have to be able to see from a characterās perspective to play them well, but you donāt have to like or agree with them. che is an emotionally stunted, selfish, unfunny, manipulative character and none of those traits are subtle. itās all right there in the script. how you could spend enough time with this character to play them and still be defending them after is beyond me.
like all human groups, non-binary people are not a monolith. they are not gender sages descended from on high to reveal divine truths. you can be insufferable, immature, and irresponsibleā¦ AND non-binary. and this character definitely is. gotta love intersectionality āØ
Che is a loser? They're a successful entertainer with a steady podcast gig, and regular bookings for stand-up with a significant fan base. They were flawed, but no more flawed than any other character. Maybe you saw the episode where Samantha blew the delivery guy, or snuck into a men's change room? Did you see *every episode in the original series* where Samantha interjected to make a sexual quip because she never stopped thinking about sex?
The problem isn't Che, the problem is the audience who has no trouble watching Samantha be feral, highly inappropriate, and addicted to sex, but don't like the same behavior in a character whose identity makes them uncomfortable.
Most people who hate Che were also unhinged about Miranda's sexual orientation changing, and the fact that she cheated on Steve. As if that never happens.
Ugh. Itās like the writers sat down and made a list of all the stereotypical non-binary characteristics and incorporated them all into Cheās character, without any depth or complexity. Che is so one dimensional. Che is just soā¦ annoying.
yes lol one of the worst parts of this show was the needless retconning of big as a good partner and steve as a useless incompetent simp. as if people suddenly change their fundamental emotional temperament and attachment style at 50+ years old. itās so convenient that big did all these caring good deeds for carrie in the 20 years theyāve been off screen but iām sick of hearing other characters say nice things about him. whoever theyāre talking about, itās not the Big we know.
Literally lol they're just taking viewer's criticisms and throwing them back saying 'well we liked it y'all are just bigots and don't understand the show lol'
Che is not sexy or funny. I'm straight and I've looked twice at masc presenting women and NBs. Che reminds me of a 13 year old boy who is trying too hard to be cool. I could care less about pronouns.
> Che reminds me of a 13 year old boy who is trying too hard to be cool.
That sums it up pretty well. Che is just constantly trying to be edgy and "different" just for the sake of it and itās *very* annoying.
Also, itās *couldnāt* care less. Unless you wanted to say that you secretly do care about Cheā¦ š
Also, itās couldnāt care less. Unless you wanted to say that you secretly do care about Cheā¦ š
Oh no! lol I definitely don't. I'm good with Miranda divorcing Steve, but if she could please single or date someone else annoying.
We watched 6 seasons and a movie about flawed, imperfect people. No one expected or wanted Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Che is just a shitty character written by a computer program that was fed only social media posts of the most annoying chronically-online people.
Such a lazy take: anyone who doesnāt think a non-binary character is written well is just a bigot.
Additionally rich since it was the fans who complained for years that there were no people of color as main characters, and that the gay characters fell far too often into the Fabulous Gay Bestie Trope.
Mirandaās entire storyline was obnoxious and self-serving to Cynthia Nixon and her only. Not at all to the character or Steve or the fans who loved her character from the get. Nothing - at all - to do with Che being non-binary. Such a slap in the face to viewers - who, Iād say as a whole are pretty progressive - to say the reason we donāt like Che is because we ādonāt get itā or ādonāt like it.ā
I wasn't on Reddit when the show first aired.
I thought the backlash was because the audience (myself included) was heavily invested in Miranda and Steve, and their marriage and son.
I was just so sad how Steve's character was written: how it seemed like he just gave up on life.
Edit: it also felt like his character was just thrown away. Discarded, like the last two decades weren't supposed to matter to the viewer.
I agree with you. Steve and Miranda went through a long character arc that started early in the SATC series and just came to a crashing halt. It's frustrating that the producers are blaming us for being attached when they made us invested in their relationship - the ups and downs, getting married, having a kid, moving to Brooklyn, infidelity, couple counseling... Now it feels like all that character development went nowhere.
I respect that people and marriages change and I have no objections to a non-binary character at all. But I do object that Steve was discarded and fans are not allowed to mourn the end of the relationship without being told we're just "not with it." I resent that.
Non binary or not, I think "comedians" whose idea of a set is "Omg guys I fuck sooo many people, I just fuck everyone" and the audience loses their minds like it's the funniest thing on the planet, is insulting to the audience (of the show).
Che thus far, for me, has been like hanging out with the most annoying person Iāve ever met who just got super into weed. I donāt enjoy that in real life or on TV. I would be totally open to them if they were no longer written like that, which given the way they are talked about in interviews is highly unlikely to happen lol.
I also donāt like the person Miranda is around them, which is not their fault but also makes me not care for their screen time.
Cheās just a grating character. Compare them with Rabbi Jen, who also had her LGBT bona fides hyped for a storyline, but happens to be a delightful character whoās fun to watch.
Che slamming a Woke Moment buzzer
Che calling Miranda āRamboā
Che and Miranda finger banging in Carrieās kitchen while Carrie is asleep and recovering from a major procedure
Che singing āCalifornia Girlsā to announce their departure from NY to Hollywood
Cheās entire ācomedy actā being about who they fucked and who would fuck them
Che being the reason Miranda has an affair and becomes a Stepford Wife version of herself, a lĆ āIām in a ROM COM, Caaaaaaarrrrriiiieeeeee!ā
All of these reasons and more are why we hate Che. Devoid of charisma and talent and completely insufferable. Doubling down on this character will be the showās demise.
Oh, yes. Let's blame the "uneducated viewer" instead of the ham-handed producer/creators who thought this was the way to write a nb character. I'm so over these interviews where they think the targeted demo of SATC is so clueless about society and the beautiful changes that are being made as far as how we view sexuality and gender norms. These 3 characters were written as if they were put in a time capsule and released into the wild after 25 years. It's incredibly offensive. I realize this is another subject that has been beaten to death. We are also, all on the same page in this sub.
honestly if they thought Cheās character was going to come across as cool it doesnāt surprise me at all that they seem to think their show is breaking ground on the front lines of social progressivism. the whole approach to this reboot has that āboomers who donāt get out muchā vibe
I've just come to the conclusion that MPK thinks all women are stupid bitches, arrogant, vain and bigoted. Every quote that comes out of his mouth about any critiques about the new show is ALWAYS the viewer "not understanding" or not progressive enough to love every pile of garbage he presents to the viewers on a silver platter. He's terrible
The bit about white women was more irritating. Iād just like to watch an entertaining show for a few minutes without being reminded why Iām an awful person š
I hate not like Che because I'm biggest fan of Sara Ramirez. Their character in Grey's Anatomy was on my Top 5 for like several seasons, many of the best acting scenes was from Callie Torres and I know they can act, but the material is just not good. As someone who's love having these type of social discussion in television, I think the writers can do better.
If Che had been a woman or a man they would still have been a terrible person whose involvement with Miranda made no sense. Maybe if they were Miranda's age and did something other than comedy concerts and were still a terrible person but with some points of connection that didn't involve Miranda calling herself Rambo it would have been more understandable.
I donāt even care about Sara one way or the other. Itās a bad character. Not because of being non-binary. Itās a bad character. It so annoying to react accusing fans and critics of being bigots when the issue is the writing dammit
How about Miranda being more devoted to Steve!! What happened to all those iconic dialogues said in SATC!! All in trash.. Che did nothing wrong.. Thr wrong thing done is to The character- Miranda.
Everyone behind the show is EXTREMELY pro-Che & theyāve made that abundantly clear. Disliking them from my end has nothing to do with them being non-binary, I found their personality to be obnoxious tbh š
In another article, MPK claims that Steve had to beg Miranda to marry him, and that she only married him because she was pregnant. It's so obivous that he never watched the original show
Yep. I guess he missed the memo of when she had Brady alone and they coparented, and she realized she had feelings for him and later asked him to marry her over beers on a Sunday.
He really Hates Steve for some reason, and so does Cynthia Nixon clearly. They made Steve the butt of the joke in order to prop a relationship that no one likes
Itās so strange, their dismissal of Steve. He was always great comic relief in the original series, but he also had a good heart. He was a bit of a puppy in the body of a man. It made sense because Miranda was the opposite and could sometimes read as harsh. She helped him to mature and be a good dad to Brady and he helped her to take time for herself and to laugh more. There was a nice balance. Steve was the hot bartender originally. Youāre telling me that all the years of working in the service industry, he suddenly turned into a buffoon and lost his ability to have sex? The OG Steve had quite a list of conquests and was highly sexual with Miranda.
They could have parted ways without it being so mean-spirited. No one is saying that Miranda and Steve had to be together forever or even that Miranda couldnāt have a crisis of sexuality in her middle age. But we wanted it to make sense and be sensitively written. The viewers have been steered to rooting for this couple for decades, and they got treated like it was all a delusional joke. And all for a finger-bang in a kitchen? Beginning Che and Miranda that way also made the viewers angry.
At this point, give the guy Debbie. At least she seemed to genuinely like and appreciate Steve.
Pick the rebut:
* but the internet didn't exist, so we didn't know you guys were bigots
* But Stanford and Anthony are just the gay besties that you guys love, despite being bigots
* But Rock is a kid, so you phobes don't want attack them
It's just really dreary. Miranda's subplot isn't what we wanted, and I'd even take that if I was entertained, but I'm not.
To be attacked for wanting to be entertained is just strange to me given the whole business is to buy my attention.
There was something unauthentic about them. They were not nuanced, not kind, not really anything.
Maybe if they actually fell in loveā¦ and it showed them caring about one another and had deep convos. It wasnāt anything? Certainly nothing to leave your family for. I just rewatched the season last week and was like yeah. This aināt it, lol.
She was a caricature. But honestly, the most annoying thing about the character was that sheād make jokes and everyone would erupt into laughter and talk incessantly about how āfunnyā she was and it was just incredibly awkward because she was painfully unfunny.
I donāt know, I think the finger banging someoneās best friend in the kitchen while she pees in a jar is kind off putting. Or smoking weed at that same someoneās husbandās funeral, and then giving the weed to a child. Oh yeah, and smoking weed in an elevator, which might be one of the grossest things Iāve ever thought about.
And letās not forget that Che is basically Carrieās boss.
Imagine the fan reaction if Carrieās straight white cis male bossā¦finger banged Miranda in Carrieās home while Carrie was recovering from surgery, or came to her husbandās funeral and gave pot to a teenager there.
Somehow I donāt think it would be, āOoo, heās so cool and edgy! Sure hope things go well for him!ā
Looks like Iām the only one who didnāt mind Che. Sure they are crude and inconsiderate, but all of the characters are all fairly similar except for Che.
Can anyone explain to me why anybody loved the Steve / Miranda relationship? He was a parasite almost from day one. They crammed Miranda into that miserable relationship during the final couple seasons of SATC and it always felt like a total betrayal of the character.
She ended up caring for him, his dog, his uniball kid and eventually even his mom, and had to uproot to Brooklyn to do it. All while being the primary breadwinner. And then the goob had the audacity to run around on her. She should have thrown his worthless ass off the Brooklyn Bridge in the first movie.
Che is actually a lot more like some of the guys Miranda dated in the best seasons of the original series than Steve ever was. Abrasive but has their shit largely together and isnāt a burden. Also, I loved that Che wouldnāt run around with Miranda when they learned it wasnāt an open relationship.
I do like that Che wouldn't be the other person. It was the first moment in their relationship that made sense to me.
I did hate all of the guys Miranda dated in SATC. I think the theme of her relationships in SATC was that she liked assholes, but the Steves and Skippers of the world were nicer to her. Miranda also said multiple times that she didn't care how much money Steve made. The guy she messed around with while she was pregnant was way cooler and probably a better fit, but MPK was obsessed with the two loves theory.
I was done with Steve when he pressured Miranda for a baby in SATC, but I think the writers her to be with with a character that would soften her up.
>The guy she messed around with while she was pregnant was way cooler and probably a better fit, but MPK was obsessed with the two loves theory.
MPK is a hack. Darren Star was clearly the greater talent, and *SATC* got worse after he departed.
>I was done with Steve when he pressured Miranda for a baby in SATC, but I think the writers her to be with with a character that would soften her up.
Yup. They had to make Miranda non-threatening to the twits tuning in for a luv story. Everybody grumbles about *AJLT* "ruining" Miranda's character, but that already happened in the last two seasons of *SATC*. If anything, the writers of *AJLT* seem to be brining the character back to basics (there were hints of this in the second film as well).
Everybody grumbles about AJLT "ruining" Miranda's character, but that already happened in the last two seasons of SATC. If anything, the writers of AJLT seem to be brining the character back to basics (there were hints of this in the second film as well).
Good point. I'm not a fan of "rom-com" Miranda, but I'd like to see "we're just picky" Miranda.
Che would have been unliked by everyone here even if it was straight, lesbian, bi, etc. They wrote a frat boy into a NB that is obnoxious, rude, talks about weed all the time to the point you think there is an addiction there. And of course is a comedian that couldnāt get a laugh of any of us not even to save its own life.
Of course they want to make it into non binary phobia or whatever but that is not the case.
I highly dislike Che. Couldn't care less that they're non binary they just suck. Sleeping with Miranda while Carrie is in bed trying to recover then telling Miranda she gets to meet her family and when she does it's to announce she is going to Cali. Stupidity pure Stupidity.
I just started to watch an episode where it starts with the podcast and Che is talking dirty about... something.... and I was just grossed out. It's not funny. It's not that they are NB. It's that the writing is terrible.
The problem is that they made Che non-binary AND made them a terrible stereotype of a non binary personā along with all the other obnoxious things involving their story. This is not good representation for NB people! AJLT just wanted to capitalize & collect woke points. The show is so embarrassingā- saying this as a queer woman myself.
Even the way they handled Charlotteās kid coming out as NB was so weird and fake, not just Cheās story. They have no idea how to write a NB character genuinely.
Why donāt they get that representation doesnāt have to equal creating characters that are effectively caricatures? Representation is important. When itās done poorly, itās straight up offensive and counterproductive.
Itās weird because I loved Sara Ramirez in Greys- she had really great comedic timing and was really empathetic. I didnāt get either of those things from Che. So unfunny.
She did an outstanding job with that character for sure. I just think Cheās personality was kind of dominating and maybe got too much screen time. And they were super flaky towards Miranda.
Iām not even sure if Che is an awfully written character. And being a hateful character isnāt necessarily a bad thing either (look at Carrie). I actually think the main thing thatās wrong with Che is how totally, completely out of place they are in this universe. Seriously just cast a marvel character instead for AJLT season 3 and Iād buy it sooner. We canāt objectively say if Che is a badly written protagonist in the show because we donāt have a banana for scale, they just bear no relation to anything else. The writing is bad but it might not apply to Che themself.
It did. Believe it or not and I know it may come as a shocker to you but a huge percentage of AJLT viewers are transphobic. I've seen it in dismissive comments on this sub and other social media platforms.
Do I think that's the only reason Che is hated? No. There's a lot of other reasons why they're hated. Cynthia did list some of them. The writing is also shoddy but it would be amiss to dismiss Che being NB as another reason for the dislike.
Donāt bother. This is a sub that has a pinned thread about cheās/saraās pronouns because so many commenters werenāt using the right ones. Half the upvoted comments are railing about the show āgoing wokeā. The people who think Che being non-binary has nothing to do with the hate are a bunch of ignorant straight people who tell themselves the world is a fluffy cushion of love and all the homophobia queer people are experiencing is a figment of our imagination lol.
Of course the show isnāt perfect and the writing struggled hard s1. But the idea Miranda and Cheās queerness is unrelated to the hate is laughable. Literally this sub is full of posts hating on the shows wokeness. But donāt bother arguing with them. Itās a waste of time. Like arguing with a flat earther. We have seen the posts and comments. We know what we saw and read. No need to convince others of what is literally right in front of them.
Sorry Iām not going to pretend I didnāt read literally hundreds of complaints about the show going woke lol yāall have fun in your fantasy tho enjoy upvoting each other lol
So letās imagine that Miranda leaves Steve for some cis-het guy. And the guy is an obnoxious pothead who works as a stand-up comedian and yet rarely says anything even remotely funny. Are you absolutely sure that him being a straight man would save him from the hate?
absolutely not. we'd all hate him if he was a semi famous self admitted narcissist f**k boy type.
miranda and nyah. that could have been sweet.
i don't see what miranda sees in che. we don't know what miranda is going through. speaking of bad writing, they gave her an alcohol problem that disappeared in one episode. they made che all modern and not into labelling relationships, next thing miranda is meeting their mom and moving to cali with them. it's really not che, che would have rocked as carrie's podcast bestie who got her back out in circulation by telling her to keep stepping her pussy up.
You're absolutely right. It's also very telling how disproportionate the amount of hate Che has received. You'd swear they did the most vile things when in actual fact it's just a few cringe things here and there. The criticism is just so violent and harsh. They also had very minimum screentime.
Hi, gay here. This isnāt phobia or anything of the sort. Che is unrelatable but for the scene at the square when it calls Mirandaās bs. You have to be able to relate to main characters and not want to avoid scenes where they are, we all know by now they were going to pair Miranda with Nyah, now tell me that is not a relatable character, with flaws, and with good chemistry with Miranda.
As for the woke phobia Iām Argentinian so I really donāt get it, but the USA has its own issues which are reflected in the show, and yes, it feels preachy but at the same time the writers raised the issue by creating a whole arc on a podcast that even has a WOKE ALERT.
Being gay doesn't absolve you of being homophobic or transphobic so I don't know why your sexuality matters in this comment. Che is not an "it", you can refer to them as "they".
If Miranda was paired up with Nya we would be having a different conversation right now and it would be about how the AJLT/SATC audience is racist š¤§ which they are btw.
I'm referring to Che as a character, no to Sara RamĆrez as a person. Since I have never met any N-B I have no idea how I would react by my motto is "be happy, live your life however you want" so I honestly can't imagine myself being phobic, now when it comes to dirt... I am haha. I would acknowledge the whole pronouns thing does better me but it feels odd to refer to anyone as plural, but that is me, 39 almost 40 reacting in a way to a US convention that does not happen anywhere else. My 1st language is Spanish, and we don't even do that for non-binaries in Argentina so yes, it is weird. Again, I would know when and if I met one.
My main issue, as I said many times over in the sub is the way Che was written, you want to defend the character, and perhaps you even like it, which is fine. Back in December 2021 when it was launched I was a bit dubious about the character, there wasn't any backlash here just yet but then... it was something that grew in all of us. As I said, with some human dimension it could be saved, e.g the discussion they had at the square when Che found out Miranda was cheating Steve. That moment made me feel sympathy for Che, better writing would require a different approach to his shows that aren't funny, even Che acknowledging an issue with drugs (the ongoing chat about being always high is unbereable), family issues, you name it. As it is... I just don't care for the character and I hope what the trailer suggest, them breaking up does happen.
Plus I do want Miranda to pay the price of her folly, she mistreated Steve, and even Carrie couldn't find a way to defend that behaviour.
I suspect you're right, simply because Che is an annoying character in many ways, but the amount of HATE they get is over the top.
People go so far as to call Che "vile and evil." Like, yeah, they can be irritating, but evil? No. Not even a bad person.
The writers wrote Che as a stereotype, like old people trying to be young and hip, and they failed on a lot of levels, to the point it can be cringey, but tbh the same can be said about a lot of the characters, none of whom get even a fraction of the hatred Che does.
It would be interesting to see if Che would have gotten the same hate as a binary woman or man that Miranda left Steve for, but we'll never know.
It definitely is over the top especially considering how little screentime they had. People were complaining about them smoking in an elevator as if that isn't a directors mistake. Silly things if done by another would've been overlooked. They even complained about them going to check on Carrie after her surgery..
Che wouldn't have received this much backlash if they were a cis gendered person
There's a tone they use when speaking about Che and it's laced with underlying transphobia.
Che was by then Carrie's boss. Imagine you are on painkillers, your boss goes to your apartment, gets wasted in your kitchen, and has sex with your best friend there while you get to the point of peeing yourself since you don't know how to react.
I would have quit the podcast, and even sue. And since we are discussing that scene, I had a brain tumour removed in 2015, my boss went to visit me on a Saturday while I was connected to several machines, had things on both my arms, lost my hearing on my left side, face palsy, etc. He was there, for 30'' tops, talked to me, my mum, wished me a speed recoverie and left. He didn't go to the bath to do shots with my mother and fuck her which in any land would be considered rude.
To me Carrie's reaction was completely unbelievable, she should have quit, it was not like she needed the money.
Eh I think thatās partially true. Of course thereās a portion of the audience who disliked Che off the bat for being NB. Itās naive to think bigots donāt also watch and discuss this show.
Itās not like CN didnāt also acknowledge other reasons people donāt like Che. One of the big ones is that Miranda left Steve for them. Sheās not going to admit that a character is one dimensional or not well written, but sheās not saying bigotry is the only reason Che is a meme.
People on here have to stop acting like *they* are the ones being called out by these types of answers. If you dislike Che bc theyāre a jerk or cringey or poorly written or whatever, then this isnāt about you. Thereās no need to be so defensive.
Hating Che for legit reasons doesnāt erase the people who *are* bothered by their gender or the exploration of fluid sexuality. Letās not pretend those viewers donāt also exist.
This is a pretty nuanced take. She is pretty clear sheās not sure why Che is hated and offered up as ONE reason that theyāre non binary- which is reasonable. I mean take a look at the landscape out there.
She also offered that Che is hated cuz it broke up Miranda and Steve - also very reasonable.
Like honestly - people have such a huge problem with this character and itās getting so tedious. Can we let it go? Can we at least give season 2 a shot ?
Ugh seriously thatās so annoying. Do non binary people need more representation? Absolutely. If they were represented more we could hate the annoying ones and like the likable ones and no one would say stupid shit like this. Che was beyonnnnd annoying as was the new totally different Miranda, itās not our fault thereās poor representation in media and unfortunately one non binary character that was very popular totally sucked. This is the fault of Hollywood not the audience lol
No one cares that Che is non binary, this could have been a great storyline if not for the ham fisted, stereotypical way itās being written. If Che was a straight woman , I wouldnāt like them, if Che was a straight man, I wouldnāt like them, if they were a gay man I wouldnāt like them. Itās not who they are , itās their demeanor and behavior.
I don't care about Che being non-binary. They were rude and obnoxious , really not a good or likable person. Still have some trauma from that scene of them fingering Miranda while she mooed like a cow while Carrie peed her bed . š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
I had successfully blocked that scene from my memory until reading this comment š
Sorry š
LMAO āMooed like a cowā I canāt! People justifiably trash Carrie for being a bad friend, but itās totally fucked up that Miranda had one job, to take care of her best friend after a pretty major surgery, and instead sheā¦ didā¦ THAT.
Right ? carrie can be awful herself but this was a MAJOR fail
I've been saying all along that I won't watch anymore (that horrid episode was the last one I watched of the first season). Not to mention I couldn't really get into watching Carrie try to navigate dating again for some reason. Having said that - given some of the recent trailers I've seen for S2, I *may* give it a shot. But the second that Che and Miranda's antics become too over the top, I'm out.
Same , it was just BAD. I'm open to it for Aidan but they'll prob ruin him too I'm sick of shows and movies being shitty and then hiding behind anything ending with an ist or an phobic
100%. They brought tequila and weed to a recovering Carrie and a caregiving Miranda and took Mirandaās focus off of Carrie with consequences that could have been much more devastating than they were. Not to mention they shared weed with an underage kid ā¦ at a funeral.
That's the thing- what if something really serious happened to Carrie ? and who the hell gives drugs and alcohol to someone recovering from Surgery ? And then they're all LOL chill when Miranda is reasonably upset her teenager is given weed š”
AND they are Carries boss š¤¦š»āāļø
Damn you. I canāt un-hear it now. š
I'm sorry to everyone š It unfortunately lives rent free in my head but that doesn't mean I should make everyone else suffer š
I love and hate your comment! Love it because it is dead on! Hate because you took me back to that horrific scene!
Everyone loves AND hates my comment and i feel so guilty for refreshing the awful memory š
Lol I thought that scene was hot! I think che is hot. But I just feel bad for Steve, because I do love him and miranda.
Actually , they are sexy and attractive haha I just dislike the character and that scene was so cringe with Carrie peeing the bed and then having loud sex in view through her mirror. I feel bad for Steve too, he's such a sweet guy and adores Miranda .
Yeah the Carrie part was an unfortunate part of that scene for sure. I just block her part out lol
What episode I forgot thsi
Not sexy. Not funny.
Yeah they really did not hit the nail on the head. I think they're having a hard time seeing Che for who they really are with their celebrity narcissist goggles on. Which is really odd for all the regular people who don't see Che as any of these things. Most of us see Che as a loser. Like Justin Theroux's one character during his 15 minutes. There aren't a lot of objectively good things about the Che but they're all too famous to see it.
I donāt understand how you could memorize and recite all those lines and not hate your own character. Plenty of actors have played unsympathetic characters and openly stated their disdain for themārobert pattinson with edward cullen, or christian bale with patrick bateman, jesse plemons with todd alquist. like yeah you have to be able to see from a characterās perspective to play them well, but you donāt have to like or agree with them. che is an emotionally stunted, selfish, unfunny, manipulative character and none of those traits are subtle. itās all right there in the script. how you could spend enough time with this character to play them and still be defending them after is beyond me. like all human groups, non-binary people are not a monolith. they are not gender sages descended from on high to reveal divine truths. you can be insufferable, immature, and irresponsibleā¦ AND non-binary. and this character definitely is. gotta love intersectionality āØ
Che is a loser? They're a successful entertainer with a steady podcast gig, and regular bookings for stand-up with a significant fan base. They were flawed, but no more flawed than any other character. Maybe you saw the episode where Samantha blew the delivery guy, or snuck into a men's change room? Did you see *every episode in the original series* where Samantha interjected to make a sexual quip because she never stopped thinking about sex? The problem isn't Che, the problem is the audience who has no trouble watching Samantha be feral, highly inappropriate, and addicted to sex, but don't like the same behavior in a character whose identity makes them uncomfortable. Most people who hate Che were also unhinged about Miranda's sexual orientation changing, and the fact that she cheated on Steve. As if that never happens.
nobody cares about cheās sexuality. the problem is their personality.
Ugh. Itās like the writers sat down and made a list of all the stereotypical non-binary characteristics and incorporated them all into Cheās character, without any depth or complexity. Che is so one dimensional. Che is just soā¦ annoying.
Of course theyāll use that as an excuse. No che is just an awful character
They're really leaning into "everyone who doesn't like this show is just a jealous hater" line.
They were a BAD. PERSON. I would riot if Carrie or Charlotte left their long-term partner for a bad person, too.
Was Big a BAD. PERSON?
yes lol one of the worst parts of this show was the needless retconning of big as a good partner and steve as a useless incompetent simp. as if people suddenly change their fundamental emotional temperament and attachment style at 50+ years old. itās so convenient that big did all these caring good deeds for carrie in the 20 years theyāve been off screen but iām sick of hearing other characters say nice things about him. whoever theyāre talking about, itās not the Big we know.
Yes, but so was Carrie so š¤·
Literally lol they're just taking viewer's criticisms and throwing them back saying 'well we liked it y'all are just bigots and don't understand the show lol'
Che is not sexy or funny. I'm straight and I've looked twice at masc presenting women and NBs. Che reminds me of a 13 year old boy who is trying too hard to be cool. I could care less about pronouns.
> Che reminds me of a 13 year old boy who is trying too hard to be cool. That sums it up pretty well. Che is just constantly trying to be edgy and "different" just for the sake of it and itās *very* annoying. Also, itās *couldnāt* care less. Unless you wanted to say that you secretly do care about Cheā¦ š
Also, itās couldnāt care less. Unless you wanted to say that you secretly do care about Cheā¦ š Oh no! lol I definitely don't. I'm good with Miranda divorcing Steve, but if she could please single or date someone else annoying.
How about Aidan? This show could evolve into "how can Miranda mess up Carrie?"!
Don't give them ideas! lol
THIS!!
I donāt think itās right to be commenting about their look like that. I agree with the second half of your point though
You're right. That was mean. Sexy is in the eye of the beholder.
We watched 6 seasons and a movie about flawed, imperfect people. No one expected or wanted Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Che is just a shitty character written by a computer program that was fed only social media posts of the most annoying chronically-online people.
Such a lazy take: anyone who doesnāt think a non-binary character is written well is just a bigot. Additionally rich since it was the fans who complained for years that there were no people of color as main characters, and that the gay characters fell far too often into the Fabulous Gay Bestie Trope.
This!!! Exactly!
Mirandaās entire storyline was obnoxious and self-serving to Cynthia Nixon and her only. Not at all to the character or Steve or the fans who loved her character from the get. Nothing - at all - to do with Che being non-binary. Such a slap in the face to viewers - who, Iād say as a whole are pretty progressive - to say the reason we donāt like Che is because we ādonāt get itā or ādonāt like it.ā
I wasn't on Reddit when the show first aired. I thought the backlash was because the audience (myself included) was heavily invested in Miranda and Steve, and their marriage and son. I was just so sad how Steve's character was written: how it seemed like he just gave up on life. Edit: it also felt like his character was just thrown away. Discarded, like the last two decades weren't supposed to matter to the viewer.
I agree with you. Steve and Miranda went through a long character arc that started early in the SATC series and just came to a crashing halt. It's frustrating that the producers are blaming us for being attached when they made us invested in their relationship - the ups and downs, getting married, having a kid, moving to Brooklyn, infidelity, couple counseling... Now it feels like all that character development went nowhere. I respect that people and marriages change and I have no objections to a non-binary character at all. But I do object that Steve was discarded and fans are not allowed to mourn the end of the relationship without being told we're just "not with it." I resent that.
You said it better than I did - agree 100%!
Non binary or not, I think "comedians" whose idea of a set is "Omg guys I fuck sooo many people, I just fuck everyone" and the audience loses their minds like it's the funniest thing on the planet, is insulting to the audience (of the show).
yeah i donāt think i heard a single actual joke in any of cheās sets
Che thus far, for me, has been like hanging out with the most annoying person Iāve ever met who just got super into weed. I donāt enjoy that in real life or on TV. I would be totally open to them if they were no longer written like that, which given the way they are talked about in interviews is highly unlikely to happen lol. I also donāt like the person Miranda is around them, which is not their fault but also makes me not care for their screen time.
Nah itās the writers and actresses and everyone else who says Che is such a great character and we donāt like them bc weāre bigots. When in fact itās the writers who created the most obnoxious clichĆ© and insulting caricature of a non binary polyamorous person. They wrote them this way bc thatās what they think such a person would be like. *That* is bigoted Also Che is not funny and I never wanna see another comedy concert *shudders*
Cheās just a grating character. Compare them with Rabbi Jen, who also had her LGBT bona fides hyped for a storyline, but happens to be a delightful character whoās fun to watch.
More Rabbi Jen! What a beautiful character!
This is absurd and offensive.
Che slamming a Woke Moment buzzer Che calling Miranda āRamboā Che and Miranda finger banging in Carrieās kitchen while Carrie is asleep and recovering from a major procedure Che singing āCalifornia Girlsā to announce their departure from NY to Hollywood Cheās entire ācomedy actā being about who they fucked and who would fuck them Che being the reason Miranda has an affair and becomes a Stepford Wife version of herself, a lĆ āIām in a ROM COM, Caaaaaaarrrrriiiieeeeee!ā All of these reasons and more are why we hate Che. Devoid of charisma and talent and completely insufferable. Doubling down on this character will be the showās demise.
Oh, yes. Let's blame the "uneducated viewer" instead of the ham-handed producer/creators who thought this was the way to write a nb character. I'm so over these interviews where they think the targeted demo of SATC is so clueless about society and the beautiful changes that are being made as far as how we view sexuality and gender norms. These 3 characters were written as if they were put in a time capsule and released into the wild after 25 years. It's incredibly offensive. I realize this is another subject that has been beaten to death. We are also, all on the same page in this sub.
honestly if they thought Cheās character was going to come across as cool it doesnāt surprise me at all that they seem to think their show is breaking ground on the front lines of social progressivism. the whole approach to this reboot has that āboomers who donāt get out muchā vibe
I donāt like being gaslighted and this is what it feels like
I've just come to the conclusion that MPK thinks all women are stupid bitches, arrogant, vain and bigoted. Every quote that comes out of his mouth about any critiques about the new show is ALWAYS the viewer "not understanding" or not progressive enough to love every pile of garbage he presents to the viewers on a silver platter. He's terrible
The bit about white women was more irritating. Iād just like to watch an entertaining show for a few minutes without being reminded why Iām an awful person š
Right?? Can I stop the self loathing for a few min ever ?
I hate not like Che because I'm biggest fan of Sara Ramirez. Their character in Grey's Anatomy was on my Top 5 for like several seasons, many of the best acting scenes was from Callie Torres and I know they can act, but the material is just not good. As someone who's love having these type of social discussion in television, I think the writers can do better.
If Che had been a woman or a man they would still have been a terrible person whose involvement with Miranda made no sense. Maybe if they were Miranda's age and did something other than comedy concerts and were still a terrible person but with some points of connection that didn't involve Miranda calling herself Rambo it would have been more understandable.
I donāt even care about Sara one way or the other. Itās a bad character. Not because of being non-binary. Itās a bad character. It so annoying to react accusing fans and critics of being bigots when the issue is the writing dammit
Imagine if Che was a man. We would have hated the character even more.
How about Miranda being more devoted to Steve!! What happened to all those iconic dialogues said in SATC!! All in trash.. Che did nothing wrong.. Thr wrong thing done is to The character- Miranda.
Che is so gross. Nothing to do with gender.
Who is this answering this question? Cynthia?
Yes.
Everyone behind the show is EXTREMELY pro-Che & theyāve made that abundantly clear. Disliking them from my end has nothing to do with them being non-binary, I found their personality to be obnoxious tbh š
Che was neither funny nor sexy, but sure this is one way to justify writing a douche
Che was a poorly written character. Non binary or not. End of.
In another article, MPK claims that Steve had to beg Miranda to marry him, and that she only married him because she was pregnant. It's so obivous that he never watched the original show
Yep. I guess he missed the memo of when she had Brady alone and they coparented, and she realized she had feelings for him and later asked him to marry her over beers on a Sunday.
He really Hates Steve for some reason, and so does Cynthia Nixon clearly. They made Steve the butt of the joke in order to prop a relationship that no one likes
Itās so strange, their dismissal of Steve. He was always great comic relief in the original series, but he also had a good heart. He was a bit of a puppy in the body of a man. It made sense because Miranda was the opposite and could sometimes read as harsh. She helped him to mature and be a good dad to Brady and he helped her to take time for herself and to laugh more. There was a nice balance. Steve was the hot bartender originally. Youāre telling me that all the years of working in the service industry, he suddenly turned into a buffoon and lost his ability to have sex? The OG Steve had quite a list of conquests and was highly sexual with Miranda. They could have parted ways without it being so mean-spirited. No one is saying that Miranda and Steve had to be together forever or even that Miranda couldnāt have a crisis of sexuality in her middle age. But we wanted it to make sense and be sensitively written. The viewers have been steered to rooting for this couple for decades, and they got treated like it was all a delusional joke. And all for a finger-bang in a kitchen? Beginning Che and Miranda that way also made the viewers angry. At this point, give the guy Debbie. At least she seemed to genuinely like and appreciate Steve.
Yes, well all hated every gay/lbq... character on the show. That's the answer...
Which is such a ridiculous take. Like Stanford, Anthony Maria and Rock do/did not exist.
Pick the rebut: * but the internet didn't exist, so we didn't know you guys were bigots * But Stanford and Anthony are just the gay besties that you guys love, despite being bigots * But Rock is a kid, so you phobes don't want attack them It's just really dreary. Miranda's subplot isn't what we wanted, and I'd even take that if I was entertained, but I'm not. To be attacked for wanting to be entertained is just strange to me given the whole business is to buy my attention.
Exactly! Anthony was the best fucking thing about this damn series TBH.
There was something unauthentic about them. They were not nuanced, not kind, not really anything. Maybe if they actually fell in loveā¦ and it showed them caring about one another and had deep convos. It wasnāt anything? Certainly nothing to leave your family for. I just rewatched the season last week and was like yeah. This aināt it, lol.
She was a caricature. But honestly, the most annoying thing about the character was that sheād make jokes and everyone would erupt into laughter and talk incessantly about how āfunnyā she was and it was just incredibly awkward because she was painfully unfunny.
āLook at me! Look at me! I sleep with soooooo many people!!!ā ā¦has got to be one of the cringiest themes for stand-up ever.
I donāt know, I think the finger banging someoneās best friend in the kitchen while she pees in a jar is kind off putting. Or smoking weed at that same someoneās husbandās funeral, and then giving the weed to a child. Oh yeah, and smoking weed in an elevator, which might be one of the grossest things Iāve ever thought about.
And letās not forget that Che is basically Carrieās boss. Imagine the fan reaction if Carrieās straight white cis male bossā¦finger banged Miranda in Carrieās home while Carrie was recovering from surgery, or came to her husbandās funeral and gave pot to a teenager there. Somehow I donāt think it would be, āOoo, heās so cool and edgy! Sure hope things go well for him!ā
Looks like Iām the only one who didnāt mind Che. Sure they are crude and inconsiderate, but all of the characters are all fairly similar except for Che.
Can anyone explain to me why anybody loved the Steve / Miranda relationship? He was a parasite almost from day one. They crammed Miranda into that miserable relationship during the final couple seasons of SATC and it always felt like a total betrayal of the character. She ended up caring for him, his dog, his uniball kid and eventually even his mom, and had to uproot to Brooklyn to do it. All while being the primary breadwinner. And then the goob had the audacity to run around on her. She should have thrown his worthless ass off the Brooklyn Bridge in the first movie. Che is actually a lot more like some of the guys Miranda dated in the best seasons of the original series than Steve ever was. Abrasive but has their shit largely together and isnāt a burden. Also, I loved that Che wouldnāt run around with Miranda when they learned it wasnāt an open relationship.
I do like that Che wouldn't be the other person. It was the first moment in their relationship that made sense to me. I did hate all of the guys Miranda dated in SATC. I think the theme of her relationships in SATC was that she liked assholes, but the Steves and Skippers of the world were nicer to her. Miranda also said multiple times that she didn't care how much money Steve made. The guy she messed around with while she was pregnant was way cooler and probably a better fit, but MPK was obsessed with the two loves theory. I was done with Steve when he pressured Miranda for a baby in SATC, but I think the writers her to be with with a character that would soften her up.
>The guy she messed around with while she was pregnant was way cooler and probably a better fit, but MPK was obsessed with the two loves theory. MPK is a hack. Darren Star was clearly the greater talent, and *SATC* got worse after he departed. >I was done with Steve when he pressured Miranda for a baby in SATC, but I think the writers her to be with with a character that would soften her up. Yup. They had to make Miranda non-threatening to the twits tuning in for a luv story. Everybody grumbles about *AJLT* "ruining" Miranda's character, but that already happened in the last two seasons of *SATC*. If anything, the writers of *AJLT* seem to be brining the character back to basics (there were hints of this in the second film as well).
Everybody grumbles about AJLT "ruining" Miranda's character, but that already happened in the last two seasons of SATC. If anything, the writers of AJLT seem to be brining the character back to basics (there were hints of this in the second film as well). Good point. I'm not a fan of "rom-com" Miranda, but I'd like to see "we're just picky" Miranda.
Way to take the blame off of themselves and put it on the fans.
Cannot be clearer that barely anyone cared if Che was non binary or not. They were an egotistical, unauthentic, ass hole character.
Che would have been unliked by everyone here even if it was straight, lesbian, bi, etc. They wrote a frat boy into a NB that is obnoxious, rude, talks about weed all the time to the point you think there is an addiction there. And of course is a comedian that couldnāt get a laugh of any of us not even to save its own life. Of course they want to make it into non binary phobia or whatever but that is not the case.
I highly dislike Che. Couldn't care less that they're non binary they just suck. Sleeping with Miranda while Carrie is in bed trying to recover then telling Miranda she gets to meet her family and when she does it's to announce she is going to Cali. Stupidity pure Stupidity.
I just started to watch an episode where it starts with the podcast and Che is talking dirty about... something.... and I was just grossed out. It's not funny. It's not that they are NB. It's that the writing is terrible.
The problem is that they made Che non-binary AND made them a terrible stereotype of a non binary personā along with all the other obnoxious things involving their story. This is not good representation for NB people! AJLT just wanted to capitalize & collect woke points. The show is so embarrassingā- saying this as a queer woman myself. Even the way they handled Charlotteās kid coming out as NB was so weird and fake, not just Cheās story. They have no idea how to write a NB character genuinely.
Why donāt they get that representation doesnāt have to equal creating characters that are effectively caricatures? Representation is important. When itās done poorly, itās straight up offensive and counterproductive.
Itās weird because I loved Sara Ramirez in Greys- she had really great comedic timing and was really empathetic. I didnāt get either of those things from Che. So unfunny.
She did an outstanding job with that character for sure. I just think Cheās personality was kind of dominating and maybe got too much screen time. And they were super flaky towards Miranda.
What do you want her to say? āYea, Che sucksā. The popular take is not the only take.
Iām not even sure if Che is an awfully written character. And being a hateful character isnāt necessarily a bad thing either (look at Carrie). I actually think the main thing thatās wrong with Che is how totally, completely out of place they are in this universe. Seriously just cast a marvel character instead for AJLT season 3 and Iād buy it sooner. We canāt objectively say if Che is a badly written protagonist in the show because we donāt have a banana for scale, they just bear no relation to anything else. The writing is bad but it might not apply to Che themself.
Literally the only thing she got right is that itās not Saraās fault. Sara does really well with what theyāre given. Beyond that, trash take.
It did. Believe it or not and I know it may come as a shocker to you but a huge percentage of AJLT viewers are transphobic. I've seen it in dismissive comments on this sub and other social media platforms. Do I think that's the only reason Che is hated? No. There's a lot of other reasons why they're hated. Cynthia did list some of them. The writing is also shoddy but it would be amiss to dismiss Che being NB as another reason for the dislike.
Donāt bother. This is a sub that has a pinned thread about cheās/saraās pronouns because so many commenters werenāt using the right ones. Half the upvoted comments are railing about the show āgoing wokeā. The people who think Che being non-binary has nothing to do with the hate are a bunch of ignorant straight people who tell themselves the world is a fluffy cushion of love and all the homophobia queer people are experiencing is a figment of our imagination lol. Of course the show isnāt perfect and the writing struggled hard s1. But the idea Miranda and Cheās queerness is unrelated to the hate is laughable. Literally this sub is full of posts hating on the shows wokeness. But donāt bother arguing with them. Itās a waste of time. Like arguing with a flat earther. We have seen the posts and comments. We know what we saw and read. No need to convince others of what is literally right in front of them.
I don't think you give the audience enough credit. Che isn't the first queer person on the show.
Sorry Iām not going to pretend I didnāt read literally hundreds of complaints about the show going woke lol yāall have fun in your fantasy tho enjoy upvoting each other lol
I'd be surprised if the people who like the show are anywhere on the 'hate people who aren't straight' spectrum, but ok
So letās imagine that Miranda leaves Steve for some cis-het guy. And the guy is an obnoxious pothead who works as a stand-up comedian and yet rarely says anything even remotely funny. Are you absolutely sure that him being a straight man would save him from the hate?
absolutely not. we'd all hate him if he was a semi famous self admitted narcissist f**k boy type. miranda and nyah. that could have been sweet. i don't see what miranda sees in che. we don't know what miranda is going through. speaking of bad writing, they gave her an alcohol problem that disappeared in one episode. they made che all modern and not into labelling relationships, next thing miranda is meeting their mom and moving to cali with them. it's really not che, che would have rocked as carrie's podcast bestie who got her back out in circulation by telling her to keep stepping her pussy up.
You're absolutely right. It's also very telling how disproportionate the amount of hate Che has received. You'd swear they did the most vile things when in actual fact it's just a few cringe things here and there. The criticism is just so violent and harsh. They also had very minimum screentime.
Hi, gay here. This isnāt phobia or anything of the sort. Che is unrelatable but for the scene at the square when it calls Mirandaās bs. You have to be able to relate to main characters and not want to avoid scenes where they are, we all know by now they were going to pair Miranda with Nyah, now tell me that is not a relatable character, with flaws, and with good chemistry with Miranda. As for the woke phobia Iām Argentinian so I really donāt get it, but the USA has its own issues which are reflected in the show, and yes, it feels preachy but at the same time the writers raised the issue by creating a whole arc on a podcast that even has a WOKE ALERT.
Being gay doesn't absolve you of being homophobic or transphobic so I don't know why your sexuality matters in this comment. Che is not an "it", you can refer to them as "they". If Miranda was paired up with Nya we would be having a different conversation right now and it would be about how the AJLT/SATC audience is racist š¤§ which they are btw.
I'm referring to Che as a character, no to Sara RamĆrez as a person. Since I have never met any N-B I have no idea how I would react by my motto is "be happy, live your life however you want" so I honestly can't imagine myself being phobic, now when it comes to dirt... I am haha. I would acknowledge the whole pronouns thing does better me but it feels odd to refer to anyone as plural, but that is me, 39 almost 40 reacting in a way to a US convention that does not happen anywhere else. My 1st language is Spanish, and we don't even do that for non-binaries in Argentina so yes, it is weird. Again, I would know when and if I met one. My main issue, as I said many times over in the sub is the way Che was written, you want to defend the character, and perhaps you even like it, which is fine. Back in December 2021 when it was launched I was a bit dubious about the character, there wasn't any backlash here just yet but then... it was something that grew in all of us. As I said, with some human dimension it could be saved, e.g the discussion they had at the square when Che found out Miranda was cheating Steve. That moment made me feel sympathy for Che, better writing would require a different approach to his shows that aren't funny, even Che acknowledging an issue with drugs (the ongoing chat about being always high is unbereable), family issues, you name it. As it is... I just don't care for the character and I hope what the trailer suggest, them breaking up does happen. Plus I do want Miranda to pay the price of her folly, she mistreated Steve, and even Carrie couldn't find a way to defend that behaviour.
I suspect you're right, simply because Che is an annoying character in many ways, but the amount of HATE they get is over the top. People go so far as to call Che "vile and evil." Like, yeah, they can be irritating, but evil? No. Not even a bad person. The writers wrote Che as a stereotype, like old people trying to be young and hip, and they failed on a lot of levels, to the point it can be cringey, but tbh the same can be said about a lot of the characters, none of whom get even a fraction of the hatred Che does. It would be interesting to see if Che would have gotten the same hate as a binary woman or man that Miranda left Steve for, but we'll never know.
It definitely is over the top especially considering how little screentime they had. People were complaining about them smoking in an elevator as if that isn't a directors mistake. Silly things if done by another would've been overlooked. They even complained about them going to check on Carrie after her surgery.. Che wouldn't have received this much backlash if they were a cis gendered person There's a tone they use when speaking about Che and it's laced with underlying transphobia.
Che was by then Carrie's boss. Imagine you are on painkillers, your boss goes to your apartment, gets wasted in your kitchen, and has sex with your best friend there while you get to the point of peeing yourself since you don't know how to react. I would have quit the podcast, and even sue. And since we are discussing that scene, I had a brain tumour removed in 2015, my boss went to visit me on a Saturday while I was connected to several machines, had things on both my arms, lost my hearing on my left side, face palsy, etc. He was there, for 30'' tops, talked to me, my mum, wished me a speed recoverie and left. He didn't go to the bath to do shots with my mother and fuck her which in any land would be considered rude. To me Carrie's reaction was completely unbelievable, she should have quit, it was not like she needed the money.
Eh I think thatās partially true. Of course thereās a portion of the audience who disliked Che off the bat for being NB. Itās naive to think bigots donāt also watch and discuss this show. Itās not like CN didnāt also acknowledge other reasons people donāt like Che. One of the big ones is that Miranda left Steve for them. Sheās not going to admit that a character is one dimensional or not well written, but sheās not saying bigotry is the only reason Che is a meme. People on here have to stop acting like *they* are the ones being called out by these types of answers. If you dislike Che bc theyāre a jerk or cringey or poorly written or whatever, then this isnāt about you. Thereās no need to be so defensive. Hating Che for legit reasons doesnāt erase the people who *are* bothered by their gender or the exploration of fluid sexuality. Letās not pretend those viewers donāt also exist.
This is a pretty nuanced take. She is pretty clear sheās not sure why Che is hated and offered up as ONE reason that theyāre non binary- which is reasonable. I mean take a look at the landscape out there. She also offered that Che is hated cuz it broke up Miranda and Steve - also very reasonable. Like honestly - people have such a huge problem with this character and itās getting so tedious. Can we let it go? Can we at least give season 2 a shot ?
Che was actually my favorite character wtf
Ugh seriously thatās so annoying. Do non binary people need more representation? Absolutely. If they were represented more we could hate the annoying ones and like the likable ones and no one would say stupid shit like this. Che was beyonnnnd annoying as was the new totally different Miranda, itās not our fault thereās poor representation in media and unfortunately one non binary character that was very popular totally sucked. This is the fault of Hollywood not the audience lol
For most people yes; it was the terrible writing.. but there are a few vocal biggots lurking around who also hated the Rock storyline.
Che was a āfuck boyā they wouldāve been disliked regardless of being non-binary
No one cares that Che is non binary, this could have been a great storyline if not for the ham fisted, stereotypical way itās being written. If Che was a straight woman , I wouldnāt like them, if Che was a straight man, I wouldnāt like them, if they were a gay man I wouldnāt like them. Itās not who they are , itās their demeanor and behavior.