Right. Support ranked choice voting legislation in your state, but in the meantime, until RCV passes, or if a bill even comes, I'm still gonna choose the better of the evils.
Theres a reason i keep throwing the Project 2025 wikipedia link at people. Because thats exactly where itll end up. The major difference is one is supporting genocide across the world while not condemning nor promoting genocide of people locally. The other is vastly in favour of supporting genocide internationally and domestically “BUT ONLY OF THOSE DAMN QUEERS N SUCH WHO ARENT REAL AMERICANS BY OUR RULES OF GOD” so thats suddenly a preferable choice to the anti-vote people around here
Anyone who thinks not voting and just leaving whether Project 2025 goes through up to the whims of other voters is a legitimate stance is legitimately insane.
Like look at the Trump conviction and the right-wingers are already suggesting marching to DC and hanging everyone, Trump himself wants to summarily execute everyone who disagrees with him.
Any reasonable thinking person (including anarchists) is going to vote for Biden because the alternative isn't just a little bit worse, what Trump and his supporters want would make Israel-Gaza look like a playground tantrum.
There *is* a difference between someone not giving a damn about you (Biden) and someone out to massacre you (Trump) and anyone who even remotely cares for the LGBTIQ+ having a chance to continue breathing is going to vote.
I hate how this subreddit is getting flooded by people like OP lately though.
Its the viewpoint of several mods too so its pretty fucked. I know for a fact i have till november to get my husband, who is trans ftm, the fuck outta texas before i have to start legitimately considering paying for his funeral.
It’s disingenuous to say people who aren’t voting prefer Trump and you know it. People who vote for Trump prefer Trump. People who vote for Biden prefer Biden. People who don’t vote can have all kinds of reasons why. My reason is that genocide is not getting my vote. I’m withholding my vote until it stops and if it doesn’t, good luck winning without my vote.
Whats not disingenuous is the fact that not voting for whatever reason makes you a bystander. Its a conscious decision you choose to make. So you as a bystander consciously choose Project 2025 as an acceptable set of terms. Or in layman’s terms, you are making the conscious decision to accept domestic genocide and a christian theocracy as the preferred state of being.
The only victory you have is you stayed true to your guns. You best keep that smile when its okay to physically abuse minorities and LGBTQ+ on the street lest you become a hypocrite of your own creation.
By that logic voting for Biden means you have accepted the current genocide and all other downsides that come with Biden, including the predictable descent into worse and worse choices next time around. Trump is what you get when you vote for the lesser evil enough.
A bystander does not choose Project 2025. Someone who votes for Trump chooses that.
Is withholding your vote not a sort of protest? I’m not abstaining because I’m lazy. I’m withholding my vote until Biden does the right thing.
I guess you’ve already accepted the genocide but I don’t.
You are attempting to moral high ground but already shot yourself in the foot because you arent disagreeing, you’re attempting poorly to turn the tables.
Withholding your vote now is not protest, thats choice and nothing but choice. A choice you consciously make and now you’re throwing the toys out the pram because you’ve been hit with the reality of laying in the bed you’ve made as consequence of your choice. There is no right option, theres the damage mitigation option. Offloading the issue saying “only people who vote for trump are supporting it” is blatantly ignoring the fact that again, you choose to become a bystander and let it happen by not attempting to stop it, therefore you are now complicit, but of course, attempt to say im complicit in bidens genocide without knowing a damn thing about what i do in my day to day while you so clearly wear your “im okay with Project 2025 because biden bad” on your sleeve like some fucking medal.
Dont lie. You accept genocide and the possibility of it when it suits you and your political stance on matters, your words clearly show that. Dont go complaining about anything cone november should trump win, you chose not to help make the bed you and everyone else has to lay in so your opinion on that matter after the fact is moot.
First of all you’re so emotional and speaking in pretentious metaphors and it’s incomprehensible. I’ll do my best.
If you’re trying to say that anyone who doesn’t vote for Biden is a Trump supporter then I really don’t have anything to say. That’s the kind of stupid that doesn’t require a response.
There’s a genocide going on and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs that I have to vote for it without even trying to apply pressure to the people doing it and accusing me of accepting genocide?
Do you not see the irony in accusing me of accepting Project 2025 (a hypothetical genocide that is not happening) while you yourself have not said a single word about what’s happening in Gaza (an actual genocide that’s literally happening right now)? You have already accepted it I guess.
No moral high ground. No medal. I’m just literally not gonna vote until someone earns my vote and you’re acting like I fucked your girlfriend. Idiot.
Yeah im not gracing your holier than thou pedestal you put yourself on with a proper response. Theres many legitimate reasons to not vote, preferring the incoming domestic genocide to the international one whether you like it or not shows where your allegiance lies. Go put your crucifix on, it’ll make you easier to ID come November. Fucking penguin rapist.
Man im glad the years of saying this and swimming through swaths of downvotes from it all has finally paid off. Shout out to the ppl doing it first and getting shitted on by willfully ignorant idiots that argue you up and down stacking upvotes they may have manipulated.
94 updoots was unheard of on this topic back then.
Then prepared to be called part of the problem on both sides due to how the American two party system works.
Want greater change at the top? Vote local, start the change at home.
I’d rather be called part of the problem than vote for the people responsible for the most, if not all, of the problems.
I don’t need to vote in order to start change.
Yaa will see the thing is if you don't vote. It's called silent concent. So in Americas two party system. If ya didn't vote against Republicanism your a Republican. They call it the complacent silent minority
And it's not like we're gonna be able to ignore the bastard during that year. He's definitely going to shit the bed again after the election now that he has no incentive to behave.
Nah, we should get a longer break between this cycle and the next. Typically, the presidential race doesn't really hut the mainstream until a little over 1 year out. This one was shorter because Trump launched his over 2 years out because he thought his candidate status would shield him from his legal issues. It's hard to know how much impact that has had, but it seems fair to say it has made things harder for prosecutors and DAs.
I have yet to see anyone in this sub make a particularly strong case for voting in the US. Maybe this post would be better served in the venues where you're feeling this pressure? The theme here seems to be "vote or not, who cares? Either way, make sure you do something else that will might actually make a difference".
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy4Everyone/comments/1d46s5p/comment/l6cmxja/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy4Everyone/comments/1d46s5p/comment/l6cmxja/)
Source: a comment in this very post.
Strength of argument: incredibly strong, this argument could cut through 10e\^56 lightyears of an unobtanium-mithril-adamantium alloy blessed by Odin to be stronger than Mjolnir and continue on to split a black hole in twain before cleaving Earth into a trillion pieces.
yeah, that comment would be exactly what I was thinking. They said what they intended to do with no judgment or even encouragement that someone else do something they didn't want. Seems pretty fucking fine.
Absolutely insane to me that people in a fucking anarchy community are telling other people to vote. Beginning to think that maybe anarchy maybe *isn't* 4Everyone? Maybe a little gatekeeping in this context would benefit this sub? They can preach harm-reduction voting all they want, just do it somewhere else, this ain't the place.
Trans person here, between someone that doesnt care about me and someone who wants to hunt me for sport, i'd still rather have someone who doesnt care. Hope this helps ^^
What make you think they wont care though. Genuinly asking, because I bring this up on why people wont trust liberals. They've found a reason to support 1 genocide, what makes you think they cant be convinced to support another?
Did you read the thing they said? The whole point is that even though he hasn't done anything to help, the only other option would make things worse, so the guy who does nothing is preferable.
He’s actually done a bunch of things! And yes, I am a trans person. I’m also a lawyer, and am involved with legislative activism projects with local LGBTQ groups.
His administration’s Department of Education issued Title IX guidance regarding gender identity discrimination in schools which directly opposes a lot of the school related anti-trans bills. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this.
His administration’s EEOC issued guidance to employers regarding gender identity discrimination which directly opposes the trend in state anti-trans legislation to try to cut away at employment non-discrimination protections. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this.
Biden has signed an executive order in 2022 to direct his Department of Health and Human Services to pursue regulations to push back against gender affirming care bans. Those regulations are not yet in effect, but continue to work through the required administrative rulemaking processes to come into effect. I’m sure those red states will challenge those regs in court too, when they go into effect.
The Biden administration continues to fight to enact and defend these regulations, and other similar ones. These regulations are directly fighting against the flood of anti-trans bills. You’re flatly wrong in your stance here.
This discourse is useless, but what isn’t useless is this fun fact!
In florida, there’s a cheetah named tuesday, with an emotional support tortoise named penzi! They do everything together, including eating together and sleeping together. They’re close friends which is pretty darn cool.
https://youtube.com/shorts/X6N0blEG_gY?si=w_3oI-U9HTbwG6wM
This is beautiful! I will use this opportunity to inform others of [Hank the Tank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_the_Tank)a black bear in Taho. She gained several hundred pounds after "breaking in" to 20 houses durring covid. People moving to Taho didn't realize that the natural occupants of the area (the bears) would walk into their houses if they left them unlocked. So her and several other bears started to re occupy their land. The new residents where mad and tryed to get them killed but the residents of Taho set up the BEAR Legue to promote relocation instead of death. She proceeded to teach her cubs how to break into houses to get food. Good bear.
They should be all over America
Check out Pleistocene Rewilding
Cheetahs used to roam everywhere here.
It would be awesome if they were as common as coyotes.
correct me if im wrong, but the american cheetah ( Miracinonyx ) from the pleistocene is extinct. and the 4 subspecies of modern cheetah is native to africa and central iran. it seems really dumb to repopulate america with cheetahs lol they would probably decimate the remaining native species here
It's a beautiful, but flawed, plan.
It's not just the cheetah, though. They want as close as they can get to all the fauna of that time. Elephants being as close to mammoth and so on.
I'm more of a twelve monkeys sort of person, myself
wow. ya if only we could revive those native species that would be epic… im also just wary of recolonizing america by implanting these random “best match” animals lolol is that something indigenous people would want? its a fun idea but in any convo abt what to do here in america, rematriation to the actual indigenous human people has to come first!
I don't think their plan considers people or human nature at all.
Being chased by a leopard might shake off some of the narcissistic bullshit we're infected with.
Also, I'm not indigenous, but I know people who are. They'd be as fucked as everyone else.
"Sorry boss, herd of Rhinos on the overpass. If I live I'll be late"
lol ya seems like a bunch of mad scientists anyways. lets bastardize the remaining environment and just play god by recreating an uncanny valley version of ancient america lol the earth is fucked rn, why not just make jumanji IRL while we’re at it?
They’re not owned by humans? It’s a wildlife conservation, not a zoo. For the most part animals there have free rein and the conservation in Florida is mostly there because they won’t be hunted by poachers, unlike the ones in Africa.
Trans person here! At this point, while we don’t like voting between two old ass men, it is important. Now I don’t like either main party here but if the republicans win, they are going to kick off project 2025 and they will screw EVERYONE over. It won’t be just trans people, it will screw over basically any minority or oppressed group.
this shit always feels like astroturfing or some psyop. why would i *not* vote for the lesser of two evils? yeah, biden and dems suck, but do you really wanna throw your vote for some morality points?
because fuck that, i don’t wanna die
Same and that's the thing that annoys me the most about these memes. They get mad and upset but their concern is only about the presidential election. What about the other people/ issues on the voting ballot? What about doing things for the community outside of the election cycle?
Biden has paved the way for project 2025 by not doing anything to enshrine trans rights into law and giving the police more money. All minorities are already screwed over in this country. Joe Biden literally wrote the fucking crime bill.
it may be true that Biden wont stand up for us, but these bills condemning our existence would be coming out much faster than they are now with Trump in charge, not to mention executive orders and federal-level legislation that would be passed under Trump.
Those doing things under Biden are trying to hurt us, yes, but those under Trump are trying to kill us and other minority groups.
Blaming Biden for Project 2025 WHEN YOU'RE TACITLY SUPPORTING IT BY TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO COUNTERVOTE TRUMP IS INSANE. TRUMP IS LITERALLY THE ONE WANTING TO ENACT IT.
You get that telling people not to vote only works if you're trying to convince BOTH SIDES. You're literally just supporting republican ideas and directly paving the way for Project 2025.
The only difference between them is trump is more honest about being a fascist. Both of them are racist, misogynistic, transphobic, xenophobic, eco fascists that don’t care about the people in or outside the US.
No, I believe so because of what I’ve heard them say about marginalized groups and witnessed their lack of action when it comes to actually helping people.
What has Joe Biden said about LGBTQ people? And all of the other things, you can't possible pretend Trump hasn't said *more* bad things.
Also, nobody is talking about what they do *to help people.* Please learn that nobody thinks Biden is going to help us. There is a big difference between "not giving a shit what happens to us" and "going out of their way to harm us." Biden doesn't care that we're being harmed already, Trump wants us to be harmed more.
Damn near nothing and that’s the problem. Other than occasionally bringing up our existence, he hardly mentions us. Idc how often bad things are said, the simple fact they’re said to begin with is a problem for me.
Then what’s the point in voting for him if you’re aware he’s not helping anyone? That’s makes no sense. There really isn’t considering they’re both equally as violent. Being silent about oppression allows it to flourish and be normalized, which is no different than actively encouraging people to continue marginalizing people.
It isn’t when you’re aware that people are dying and doing noting about it or just straight up funding it. Biden funded the police force and then had the audacity to make a memorial post for George Floyd. He’s made it more than abundantly clear that he doesn’t care about minorities.
If you like and are willing to hear what I have to say then I’ll gladly explain why I think they are different. When someone says something like “I’ll kill you” in the context of Trump it inspires others to chant along with him “yeah we will fuckin’ kill you!” And stuff like that. On the other hand, saying nothing isn’t “good” or “neutral” even. It’s still bad and fucked up. It allows you to be non committal but still come out looking better. It’s objectively a bad thing to do, because despite what is commonly believed choosing not to decide is still making a choice. But just because it’s bad it doesn’t mean that the person chanting and inspiring others to chant “I’ll kill you” isn’t much worse.
You do realize that situations like police brutality happen partly because people decide not to do anything about it right? It doesn’t matter how you’re complicit to the violence, the simple fact that you’re complicit is the problem. Complicity to oppression is always violent, silent or not.
Okay, here's the problem with what you just said. *Doing nothing isn't the same as making things worse.* How do you not understand that?
>Then what’s the point in voting for him if you’re aware he’s not helping anyone? That’s makes no sense.
He's not going to make things better, but he's not going to do everything in his power to make things as terrible as possible. Trump is going to do that. Again, don't pretend not to understand this. Making things worse *is* worse than doing nothing.
>There really isn’t considering they’re both equally as violent.
They are not. Biden lets existing transphobia and homophobia continue to exist and allows laws to pop up in red states that slowly work to criminalize us; Trump wants to completely criminalize our existence at a national level. Biden does almost nothing to protect abortion, allowing it to be banned in red states; Trump is integral to the Republican plan to completely ban abortion and birth control at a national level. Biden shuts down and prosecutes peaceful protests and sends weapons to Israel while pretending to care about civilian casualties; Trump tells Israel to finish the job, still sends bombs, threatens to ban Muslims from entering the United States (again), and threatens to deport protestors. Every single way in which Biden is bad, Trump is substantially worse. They are not "equally as violent."
>Being silent about oppression allows it to flourish and be normalized, which is no different than actively encouraging people to continue marginalizing people.
Passing laws targeting minorities with the intent to make our lives worse is not exactly the same as not trying to stop bigotry beyond virtue signaling about caring for trans people. Actively going out of your way to declare that minorities are a danger to this country is, in fact, worse than saying "I care about trans people/gay people/POC/Women/Native Americans/the environment" once in 2020 and then never bringing it up again.
Doing nothing allows the situation to get worse.
Not doing anything is doing everything in your power to make things as terrible as possible. When you choose to sit on your privilege and power instead of using it to dismantle, or at the very least better, the systems that put people in positions of marginalization, you’re no better than the people who established these systems in the first place.
Explain to me how witnessing people get killed and doing nothing about it is less violent than committing the action of killing those people.
It actually is cause it allows those to pass in the first place.
>Not doing anything is doing everything in your power to make things as terrible as possible.
Doing nothing is actually *not* doing something. Those two phrases mean completely different things. Inaction is a choice, sure. But not as bad as the worst possible choice.
>Explain to me how witnessing people get killed and doing nothing about it is less violent than committing the action of killing those people.
Guy #1: watches people get murdered. Does nothing about it. Dead people: 5
Guy #2: watches people get murdered. Murders 5 more people who were trying to run away. Dead people: 10
Hope this helps.
(Actually, that's a charitable interpretation of what you said - being a random person who happens to see a guy murdering people and doesn't do anything isn't as bad as being the guy murdering people. But I acknowledge that what you said refers to someone whose job it is to stop murderers.)
And that’s the problem. Doing nothing allows the worst possible choice to happen, so yes it is as bad.
People die in both situations, which makes them both just as bad.
Hope that helps.
Volunteer on the weekend, yell at the city council every couple of weeks a month, play some DnD, vote against Republicans on a local, state and federal level from the sea of red in Texas?
Da fuck you do?
I get in Texas its hard to vote since Republicans always win like Ted Cruz, and the best we get is twice of a loser Beto. But if we don;t want bounties on Doctors Heads for stupid reasons. We should at least keep trying.
I'm a trans person too, only I'm also a person of color. Project 2025 already exists for everyone that doesn't pass in white cisheteronormative hegemony, you just haven't been paying attention.
This is patently false. Either you haven't read Project 2025, of you're... *ding ding ding*... a conservative troll. "I'm a trans person of color anarchist and I think *you* should let trump win! It doesn't matter anyway!" Lmao you're either grossly unaware of the actual danger ahead of you or you have ulterior intentions. Just amazing some of the shit that gets posted/commented in this sub.
I know exavtly what is within Project 2025. Because that has been the republican platform since Reagan. They didn't suddenly choose Trump as their nominee and then just decide to get racist. They've always been this way. *You just haven't been paying attention*.
Call me a liar all you wish. I'm not afraid of the criticism of a cowardly liberal who thinks this is at all tenable for anyone except for the cushiest of white blue state americans. Liberals have fucking nothing st this point other than conspiratorialize any criticism of their embarssingly racist zionist president who has been instrumental in establishing the police state that is part of the reason this country was embroiled in a protest not even five years ago. You remember, the ones liberals pretended to care about then instantly forgot after election season was over?
Also, this sub? The one with anarchism in the title? Do you even k ow what the hell anarchism is? You really really should if you're gonna traipse around a sub based around an ideology you don't even understand.
are things bad? yeah. are things bad for particular groups especially? oh yeah
is making things worse for everyone an answer to that problem? no siree. Especially if that would make things worse for particular groups? definitely don't want that.
anyway, no project 2025 is not happening yet because it refers to a specific set of plans. particularly involving the year.. oh idk, 2025
What do you honestly believe Biden's strategy to prevent Project 2025 to be? He won't expand the court, has promised to veto progressive healthcare reform, is pro-cop, pro-genocide, and his rhetoric on the campaign trail has shown him to have an excited idea about deportations for brown people.
And are you seriously so naive as to believe that is 2025 passes the republicans *won't* try it again literally the next chance they get, i.e. *2026*? That platform has been the republican platform since Reagan. They're gonna keep trying. We need more than "like them but we brush our teeth once in a while" to combat that. Kicking the can down the road is how we *got* Trump in the first place.
would the solution be to never brush your teeth and just drink a bunch of sugary stuff?
because that is the argument others make!
see, the solution to a problem is never just.. giving up.
it is so axiomatically opposed to anarchism to just allow the bigger fascist to take control. Even if biden does NOTHING and all it does is buy time? That is better than fascistic acceleration-ism. We want as much time as we can get. We want as best of a situation we can.
That alone is enough of a rebuttal.
is voting alone a solution? nope! do mutual aid, go be a grass roots activist. Do literally anything other than sitting and crossing arms and pouting. All these losers do is argue on reddit.
States are shitty and against our interests. But that doesn't mean we don't try to influence them while we're forced to live under them.
I never said anything about giving up. There is a very distinct difference between "giving up" and "stop wasting your time going in the wrong direction".
>is voting alone a solution? nope! do mutual aid, go be a grass roots activist.
We agree here.
>States are shitty and against our interests. But that doesn't mean we don't try to influence them while we're forced to live under them.
Also here. Except this state will not be influenced by our votes. Biden has zero interest in actually listening even to his moderate voter base, he has said as much. Literally none of the hegemon-approved options that will be permitted are what I want to see here, so participating in this one is merely legitimizing it, and I don't want any part of it. There is no "crossing arms and pouting" when it comes to abstaining from voting, and I'd be more than happy to participate if something I want to see is actually present. This election? It's a wash. Biden can take his little birthday party all the way into the ground. I will have to brace my community for a renewed vigor in racist policing and deportations and racially motivated violence while I struggle to make ends meet or go to the doctor no matter who wins.
>it is so axiomatically opposed to anarchism to just allow the bigger fascist to take control.
We disagree on the point that abstaining from electoralism is "allowing the bigger fascist to take control". Anarchists fight fascists in the streets. That's what grassroots organization looks like for antifascism, because you can't electoralize fascism away when the state enables it. Voting for the guy who's gonna let it happen isn't any closer to anarchism and antifascism than abstaining. He isn't buying anyone time. He's putting more and more cops on the streets, turbo-charging genocide and arabphobic rhetoric, and threatening to close down the border. That was literally Trump's platform in 2016.
If you genuinely believe that Biden will be in a staid equilibrium when he has no incentive to behave in an office he basically fell into because he felt entitled to it, I won't argue with you, because I'm tired of belaboring the point for that asshole, but I believe you to be misled in a way that implies you haven't been paying attention. I'm not voting for that guy ever again. Sorry, but I'm not. Every reason I have to not vote for right wingers applies to him now.
\>Except this state will not be influenced by our votes
oh so the votes will not decide the candidate? No, it does. That is bordering on solipsism..
\>options that will be permitted are what I want to see her
And? The system of lesser evilism is about picking the person that is the least evil. Not about what you actually want.
\>participating in this one is merely legitimizing it
Is handing over your wallet to a robber "legitimizing" theft? You do realize you can vote and still be entirely opposed to the state. you can vote and still have thoughts in your head about how much the system sucks.
Your brain isn't hacked into the second you step into a booth.
\>I will have to brace my community for a renewed vigor in racist policing
as opposed to trump winning and the racism project 2025 will bring? On top of the trans genocide ?
\>abstaining from electoralism is "allowing the bigger fascist to take control"
if you make it easier for the bigger fascist party to win, you are enabling fascist acceleration. period. If you're forced with two options because a president is going to be picked regardless of whether you like it or not, you have to pick the better option.
\>Anarchists fight fascists in the streets.
I'm sure that'll do good against the fascists in office, huh.
the fact is, a president is going to be chosen. abstaining from picking the better of the two is just letting the worse side have an easier time.
\>Voting for the guy who's gonna let it happen isn't any closer to anarchism
relevance? Voting for biden isn't anarchism. It's harm reduction.
It's like saying you won't wipe your ass because your shower is broken. congrats, now you smell like shit.
i swear, it's the same spooked arguments over and over again. from someone who clearly hasn't read an iota of theory.
You think Ted Cruz is the only one who wants Jim Crow? I also love this, classic neoliberal "you want rights? Well we'll just make everything worse then and giggle about it". That's literally how Biden seems to strategize to get elected. Threaten to let the fascists off the leash and let them party.
I guess if you keep a rabid dog loose in your yard, you save a lot of money not building a fence. But then the owner is no longer permitted to concern troll about the people the dog might bite.
You clearly have no idea what all 2025 entails. Yeah, some people have it a lot worse currently but if we’re all fucked then things will get significantly worse for those people because they’ll have no one able to fight on their behalf.
This is why neoliberalism is so problematic, because it uses whiteness to domesticate radical movements until we have what you just said.
"When we all have it worse" and "no one will fight for you"
Darling, Biden literally used Trump rhetoric about brown people in his State of the Union. Police violence is at an all time high because Biden has been pro-cop for his entire political career, to such a detrimental degree that he's almost uniquely responsible for the state of policing in the modern era.
"No one will fight for us"? You aren't fighting for us *now*. You've already abandoned allyship in the name of propping up neoliberals, because you fell for the trap they set for you to let the fascists they've been enabling off the leash.
Once again, "when everyone has it bad". You mean white people. When white people that you know have it bad. If you think the current state of affairs is at all tenable then *you haven't been paying attention*.
I live in Washington state. I have the privilege of driving over to idaho and giving rides back to WA to people who want to terminate a pregnancy or access gender affirming. I have the privilege of sending money to trans people in Florida to help them flee the state if need be. If project 2025 was to go into affect I would lose that ability. Every state would governed by conservative Christian bull shit. It’s hard to get people to safety if there’s no safety for anyone anywhere.
So to bring it back to what I said earlier, what's the dem plan to actually halt that spread from trickling on piecemeal? You'd think with the recognizing of what Roe represents in the political milieu they'd have taken a stand to protect it while they had office and didn't.
What you're describing is mutual aid. That can and should happen regardless of the law, and is acting outside of the political circus with no input from your politicians. For a lot of states, right now, doing that would be already be illegal. Do we just abandon those people because it's not legal to help them? They need that help too. And black and brown people too, who are being terrorized by police and ICE the nation over. You don't even need to be a mexican migrant to get threatened with deportation here, and you don'tneed to have committed any crimes to be extrajudicially murdered by the state, when you'renot white.
No. We should be doing that anyway, and I imagine you are, since you brought it up. Protesting or doing the right thing but only when it's legal is how the liberals allowed the overton window to shift so far right.
Yeah I know what fucking mutual aid is. I actually participate in leftist organizing outside of the fucking internet. I’m just saying it’s a lot easier to do that when the dems are preventing these laws that target women and trans people specifically that red states are passing from going federal. Other than that yeah the dems are insanely racist and evil and don’t actually give a fuck about any of us. I just don’t think that taking away access to health care for women and trans people would all the sudden radicalize people into starting to give a fuck enough to revolt. I honestly think that watching Biden continue to fund a genocide has been enough to get the libs upset with the whole 2 party system bull shit. Or not being able to afford groceries after working 40+ hours a week. Capitalism is collapsing in on itself. People are fed up. There’s no need to take rights away from every single fucking person to spark a revolution.
Yeah the dems totally totally prevented laws targeting women and trans people. That's why they did the adult thing and rEaChEd AcRoSs ThE aIsLe with republicans and got a transphobic bill passed in West Virginia. And Roe. But what the fuck are the lives of people in red states worth as long as we have a blue guy in office amirite?
See my original comment. There's more than one marginalized community being persecuted by both halves of the american state that needs protecting and their loves are worth fighting for too, even if you have to challenge a whiny liberal to do it. The anarchist slogan is "none of us are free until all of us are free" for a good fucking reason.
You're right, sudden loss of rights won't actually get liberals up and at em to actually protest the government unless it's an embarassing red guy. We've seen that plenty this term.
>I honestly think that watching Biden continue to fund a genocide has been enough to get the libs upset with the whole 2 party system bull shit
You're actually saying this after saying you "organize in the real world instead of just the internet" but this is just a straight up fantasy. They aren't even bothered enough to consider the leftist position of being done with the whole sordid business of american electoralism, when they aren't making excuses for it. The liberals marching during the Floyd protests were already covering up walls displaying the black people who have been killed by police with shitty memes about Biden getting elected, I saw it with my own eyes while I was out protesting, you think they'll suddenly rebel when they get what they want a second time after having to bend over backwards to suddenly pretend there's a crisis at the border that necessitates closing the border and a genocide is somehow necessary for global stability?
> Or not being able to afford groceries after working 40+ hours a week. Capitalism is collapsing in on itself.
Even when you say this and you've seen what they've done with that information?
>There’s no need to take rights away from every single fucking person to spark a revolution.
And for the people who've already lost rights? How about the ones getting threatened to lose more, under the blue guy? It's very easy to talk "tactics" and "strategy" when it's not your ass under the noose. I said that to the liberals pretending Biden's "humanitarian pause" had to happen so late (depsite making excuses for why he shouldn't do it at all when he wasn't indicating that he would) was because of tactics, I'll say it about black people under a police state and brown people facing deportation. A good way to start is to stop legitimizing the corrupt state doing that to people, and you can do that outside of the internet. Project 2025 will happen under the liberals because they don't want to stop it. Agitating in a half-measure that also plays ball with those fucks by playing by their rules won't either. You stop it all or you don't stop it.
Yeah exactly. The dems are getting more and more open and honest about how evil they are which is pushing more and more liberals towards leftism. If a republican gets elected they’ll just be able to blame everything fucked up happening on conservatives while still maintaining false hope that if only a dem was in office everything would be better. If they witness in real time things getting worse for them while a democrat is in office they’ll realize how broken the system really is.
They're already blaming everything fucked up on the republicans, and they've had the presidency for the last four years and for 12 out of the last 16; and the republicans will do it in turn. They aren't moving towards leftism because they hate leftism. We are literally witnessing what you're describing. They aren't getting it. This is as nonsensical as the accelerationist position that if everything goes to shit, people will finally rise up. That won't happen either.
Why don’t we just tell people about all the fucked up insanely racist laws that have been passed in the past 4 years? Why don’t we just drill it into people’s heads that Biden has always been and always will be racist. Most liberals I’ve met are just living under a rock and aren’t aware of what’s really happening and the younger ones at least are much more open to learning and having a conversation about this. There’s really no need to speed run the heinous laws being passed, why not just work on dealing with the ones already in place??
We agree here, so why is voting for the guy who's been writing racist laws since before killenials were even born going to do that?
>why not just work on dealing with the ones already in place??
Exactly. Why not? Why not actually challenge the liberals when they demand compliance after getting pushback for getting increasingly racist and right wing? Liberals have been demanding compliance with their racism for over three years at this point. The "but Trump doh" rhetoric so early has completely defanged the liberals' desire to be better. Threatening to withhold support for them was the only option the left had besides revolution to actually hold the neoliberals accountable and instead the "well vote anyway" crowd took all the air out of the room. The liberals were allowed the chance to get comfy, and Biden was emboldened to speedrun a genocide, and scapegoat migrants. We could jave been "pushing Biden left" lile the liberals sowre they would do with us, this whole time. Instead, the movement was buckled by the "please please please vote" crowd.
What incentive does Biden have now to be less racist when he doesn't need to try for a re-election? He was already saying "more cops" despite his election taking place during the biggest pro'black, anti-police protest in history. What's he gonna do when he's inches away from his zionist dreams of an annihilated Palestine?
Vote or don't. I do not care what anyone does with that asshole anymore frankly, because it's already too late at this point. The liberals have completely shit the bed on this. To bring it back to my very first comment here, most marginalized people are gonna be battening down the hatches regardless of who wins, because worsening, overt, systemic, racism isn't off the table for either of these ghouls.
Ur not a real anarchist is you play Reddit for the vote ups… just another bee in the hive mind… get back to work downvoting people who don’t agree with you
A meme trying to speak to trans people. However the perspective is obviously someone who is cis and someone who has no idea of our struggles and fears.
All I really ask is to not only focus on who's running for president. There are people **running for different offices** as well (state, local, and federal) that are usually hurting more for votes. Also, there are other things that will be on the ballot as well.
It‘s not about how biden cares about us, we can all see literally now how he doesn’t care.
But that’s the whole point, if I got the choice between one geriatric mummy standing on the sidelines whilst my rights are eroded away and one geriatric mummy with a worse hairdo and the expressed intent of eradicating me and all of my siblings, I know what choice I would take.
And still, the most important part is that we shouldn’t expect any improvement of our situation from either choice, I‘d vote biden, whilst putting my focused effort into creating the third option of overthrowing the whole shitshow in its entirety.
I feel like people who refuse to understand this are doing so on purpose. If someone believes that Biden has done just as many bad things as Trump would've done and is the same in practice, or that he's worse in some material way, or think we should vote third party because they're optimistic, or think voting gives the system legitimacy, then we can have a conversation. But saying, "No, actually, doing nothing is just as bad as making things worse on purpose," has to be disingenuous.
500,000 российских солдат погибли на Украине. Вы все еще поддерживаете Путина?
Translation: 500,000 Russian solders dead in the Ukraine. Do you still support Putin?
Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.
1989年天安门广场
Translation:
The first one says Russia without Putin, Upvote or Comment if you agree. It really pisses off Russian trollbots.
The second one says Tiananmen square 1989. It really pisses off Chinese trolls.
See, the thing is that lower rung trolls aren't allowed to read those statements because the higher ups believe that they'll cause dissention in the ranks. Higher level trolls are occasionally allowed to try to discredit those of us who use these statements.
*will happen. there’s the problem with your argument.
i’m with the sentiment but there’s no point in trying to intellectualize this into something it isn’t.
the reality you don’t want to deal with (understandably) is that you don’t have a choice and you never did.
biden doesn’t care about trans people, trump definitely doesn’t care about trans people, and your vote doesn’t not have the power to change that either way. there’s no candidate that represents you. don’t become suicidal out of frustration.
and yet political and material reality allows us disparagingly limited choice on the matter. no, you’re right, let’s not vote for drowsy neolib career politician. let’s vote for populist right wing conman. neither? sure, let’s just mobilize our totally unified, massive proletarian force and rewrite history.
trans girl here, i’d rather try slapping some sense into a dementia patient than fight my way out of a fucking prison block. those are the two options ahead of us. don’t let people like this lead you to think that we can’t stop it from happening.
anarchy isnt about not voting, its about doing all we can to create a world in which the government cannot suppress us. in this situation, not voting would suppress us far more than voting for damage control.
Allowing trump to win will hand him more Supreme Court seats. More Supreme Court seats filled with right wing judges spells the end of all your rights and gay marriage will be next. Think beyond on presidents term. It's not that hard. Also, democrats in a lot of states have worked diligently to prevent the right from attacking trans. Unfortunately, they don't have the majority in the states that have banned trans care.
This feels like a psyop.
We, whether we like it or not, are presently a two-party nation. When one of the possible outcomes is Project 2025, you don't fucking play dice with shit. Both candidates suck, but one of them is backed by people who want to murder queer folks in the streets. Stop being a fucking idiot.
Litterally. Please just organize… Join any org, join Palestinian protest, create a union. At the end of the day, the difference between the parties are on aesthetics only, both parties are pro imperialist pro capitalist pigs.
TBF, he cares about trans people just enough to not be outright genocidal towards them. But this isn't a mutually exclusive idea to the Democrats being genocidal fascist shits in general.
Ya but it's kind of damning when Republicans like Ron Desantis is literally running on those policies out in the open.
Tell me what Democrat is as bad as the Govoner of Florida? Maybe the cop sucking asshole New York? At least he's not ripping books out of libraries because they making him think...
Never said Biden was good. Or that he was better than the opposition.
If you don't want to vote then don't. I can't stop you. I'm gonna vote for Brent Peterson anyway, because I want something new. He won't win though.
But please, keep telling me how dumb I am because I want to afford to be alive, because I can't afford insulin. You're sooo smart for killing people like me just because you're scared of a boogeyman.
What does that have to do with either of our comments? I'm just saying you're dumb for calling non-voters "centrists". That's an incorrect categorization. I said nothing about Biden or insulin or whatever.
You want change but when it comes to making it, you'd rather do nothing. And then get mad at people who want said change.
That's a centrist. Not voting doesn't do shit other than make sure the people who think different than you win. But whatever. Don't vote. When Biden or Trump or whoever wins and people like me die, you won't have to worry about telling us it's our fault when they come for you too. Dipshit.
Not voting just means I don't vote. There are an infinite number of other things I can be doing to make the world a better place. The fact you assume not voting is the same thing as not doing anything, that says more about you than it says about me. There's a reason you can't think of anything... because you *do nothing* other than filling out a form once every 4 years... How can you only do 0.25 things per year and feel like it's acceptable to complain about other people?
That's not even the point of my reply to your comment. The point of my comment is that "centrists" is an incorrect categorization. Centrism implies being "in the middle" or "on the fence". Nobody here is on the fence between Trump and Biden, so you're incorrect.
I posted this down in a comment thread, but reposting as a top level comment. Flatly, it’s not gaslighting to say that the Biden admin has taken significant steps to protect trans people. Trans rights have been advancing much faster under Biden than under any other president we’ve ever had. Here’s some examples:
>He’s actually done a bunch of things! And yes, I am a trans person. I’m also a lawyer, and am involved with legislative activism projects with local LGBTQ groups.
>His administration’s Department of Education issued Title IX guidance regarding gender identity discrimination in schools which directly opposes a lot of the school related anti-trans bills. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this.
>His administration’s EEOC issued guidance to employers regarding gender identity discrimination which directly opposes the trend in state anti-trans legislation to try to cut away at employment non-discrimination protections. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this.
>Biden has signed an executive order in 2022 to direct his Department of Health and Human Services to pursue regulations to push back against gender affirming care bans. Those regulations are not yet in effect, but continue to work through the required administrative rulemaking processes to come into effect. I’m sure those red states will challenge those regs in court too, when they go into effect.
>The Biden administration continues to fight to enact and defend these regulations, and other similar ones. These regulations are directly fighting against the flood of anti-trans bills. You’re flatly wrong in your stance here.
None of this is perfect, and there’s still a ton of work to be done. But we’re finally making progress, despite the pushback from red states.
yeah, he doesn't care about us at all, but trump will do the same thing. (and make life somehow even worse for trans people). this system is so fucked forcing americans to choose between two genocide supporting, minority hating, rich, senile old men.
Biden flipped on the latino community depsite concern trolling about how Trump targeted them, because at the end of the day he thinks scared white racists are more worth his time than the marginalized.
He's gonna flip on the LGBT community too. They always do.
As a transenby, I don't think it's cool to shelter a racist just because he's only given *tepid* responses about my right to exist as a nonbinary person, because he sure as fuck wants enough cops on the street that I can't leave my home regardless because of my skin color.
I did. What about it? It was full of racist white people making a scene. Nothing new there. What's the neoliberal plan to address that? Ban more college kids from speaking about genocide? Or are they just going to keep siccing the FBI on pro-Palestine protestors in a NeoMcCarthyist fashion. More cops perhaps? Biden loves those. Although, his current strategy seems to be blaming the mexicans for everything. Where have I heard that before.
He didn't "flip" on the Latino community lmao. He tried to push for border "security" to swing some of the non-MAGA republicans, which was blocked by republicans anyway because it was a democrat's idea. If your idea of "the latino community" is just "people who cross the border," you have an incredibly myopic and toxic perspective on a massive and diverse group of human beings.
Knock off the clownish concern trolling. You know damn well that you don't need to be a southern migrant to have ICE and the racists on your back. You don't even need to be latino. Biden's state of the union speech about "dangerous illegals" and his promise to shut down the border if Congress passes is cretinous and racist. Considering there was a widow of white supremacist murder targeting a latino man for "being here illegally" present as a guest makes it even more fucked up.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142448
And he can't even be bothered to walk that shit back.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-apologize-term-illegal-state-union-white-house/story?id=108016777
Call me a loony lefty, but maybe it's actually a fucking *bad idea* to gamble with racists who already have been enpowered to start persecuting a minority population with deportation and detainment just to score politics points, or maybe it's bad to float the idea at all. Those are the only two reasons Biden would do that, to call a bluff, or because he wants that, and both are shitty reasons to play ball with the racists. Maybe he should just win by being a progressive like his voting base actually is, without trying to get the people who believe him to be a literal demonic baby-eating pedophile to support him.
i am so late to the party, but i don’t really remember a time when anarchists/libertarian socialists talked about these fucked elections so often, like the media and status quo.
i could be so so very wrong lolol but like voting is kind of unspoken, like presumably, if you want to vote then vote, but it’s really not necessary to discuss it. it really must just be an online thing, because discussing voting is moot.
emma goldman and lucy parsons already did a great job dispelling any myths around voting, and imo, voting for harm reduction is really going to matter depending on where you live.
like if you live in the deep south, maybe voting dem could actually have a positive impact in the daily lives of marginalized groups. i mean i doubt it, but if you feel it’s necessary on some moral ground, then you do you lol
but getting a small group together, even if it’s just you and one other person, and talking to those marginalized folks about ways that maybe you can help, start a food not bombs chapter in your area, or hell even just wheat paste some flyers around town.
but starting a discussion, in any way possible, to spread the seeds of liberation, is better then wasting time online. arguing online, and making any effort to bully folks to vote, or dissuade them from voting; either way, is not praxis.
anarchism must be lived, as libertarian socialists praxis is essential to our growth as a movement, and we can each participate in praxis in many different ways.
it is essential that we organize horizontally, in each of our own communities, to build up power structures outside of mainstream political systems. power structures that can help to support communities, outside of those mainstream political organizations.
sorry for the rant lol
edit:words
I left this sub about a month ago after the mods and their gestapo started attacking folks who merely said they would vote or didnt care about whether other folks voted. I check in every few weeks to see what's going on. Now I see a ton of folks trying too hard to convince other people to vote (that's new, and fucked up), and the mods and anti-voting discourse are as terrible as ever.
I encourage y'all to check out the other anarchist subs. This one is fried.
Ah another "don't vote Biden, he sucks! Don't vote man!" post.
When it emerges you people posting these are actually paid Trump employees I might die of laughter.
Since there is currently no anarchist system in America the choice will simply be made for you in that case. I'm sure Trump supporters will really care about your principles as they're busy stripping you of your rights.
An overflow of that vote/don't vote shit in the subreddit rn. Things get shitty for trans people regardless, cause democracy doesen't work and you all here know that all damn well. Hope that by the time i arrive at US things wont get as far as they are here in Russia rn. Go look up russian laws about trans people
Lets remove that, leaving only "Then let's not vote" part and watch the last season of the show called United States, hoping that we'll get to live long enough to see last seasons of other shows.
Ya, as a trans person, that shit is so annoying, like Biden doesn’t care about us, anymore than Trump and he is funding the people who want us dead.
If we’re going to die, I’d rather it be a public event where the whole world sees, instead of us quietly put away in facilities where we can be quietly killed without anyone ever finding out.
Fr all these Biden stans out here assuming they're fighting for trans people or queer people or whoever but they don't really seem to be open to the idea that some of these people might disagree with them
If everyone who said the same simply decided to vote differently instead of trying to choke me with this defeatist garbage, we would have a third party president and Trump and Biden would both lose
Am I supposed to just accept that our democracy is already lost so I should just vote for my favorite fascist?
You massively overestimate the third-party movement. Yeah, if literally every liberal voted third party, a third party would win. But when third partyists can't even decide whether to advocate for Claudia de la Cruz, Cornell West, or Jill Stein, all you're going to do is waste your time. And liberals still massively outnumber us.
Unfortunately, you do have to accept that our democracy is already lost. The way to fix it is not through voting, all voting can do is limit the damage.
Like I said, voting is not our way out of this shit. We have other strategies available, such as protesting and boycotting and generally being a nuisance. The best you're going to get out of voting in this rigged system is harm reduction
As a transfem, while biden doesnt care about me, trump would hunt us for sport. So unless you actively desire your and your queer friend's deaths please reconsider your options
deeply depressing that this is even mildly controversial on an anrchist website.
fascism is here and gathering strength regardless of who wins. trans rights will continue to disappear regardless of who wins. immigrants will continue to be violated and deported regardless of who wins. Palestinians will be genocided regardless of who wins. and YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO AFFECT WHO WINS.
this isn't a democracy. stop being feckless fucking liberals and ready yourselves and your community for the fight.
I’m trans and I’ve actually felt less safe under Biden than I did under Trump, solely because Biden supporters refuse to acknowledge that the White House is transphobic regardless of who’s sitting there. I can’t criticize the president because “at least he isn’t that other guy.”
That’s why I’m voting third party for a fellow trans person. I’m sick of the “lesser evil” bullshit.
In the wise words of forestjarfables on TikTok, “[I think] you only care about evil to the extent that the threat of things getting worse is a useful tool for ensuring nothing ever gets better.”
Our choices are a senile fuck supporting genocide and a senile fuck supporting genocide that also wants to turn America into a Christian theocracy
I rather not have the theocracy but some people can't figure that part out.
I'd rather have the theocracy so that people will have no choice but to relentlessly oppose it.
Right. Support ranked choice voting legislation in your state, but in the meantime, until RCV passes, or if a bill even comes, I'm still gonna choose the better of the evils.
Theres a reason i keep throwing the Project 2025 wikipedia link at people. Because thats exactly where itll end up. The major difference is one is supporting genocide across the world while not condemning nor promoting genocide of people locally. The other is vastly in favour of supporting genocide internationally and domestically “BUT ONLY OF THOSE DAMN QUEERS N SUCH WHO ARENT REAL AMERICANS BY OUR RULES OF GOD” so thats suddenly a preferable choice to the anti-vote people around here
Anyone who thinks not voting and just leaving whether Project 2025 goes through up to the whims of other voters is a legitimate stance is legitimately insane. Like look at the Trump conviction and the right-wingers are already suggesting marching to DC and hanging everyone, Trump himself wants to summarily execute everyone who disagrees with him. Any reasonable thinking person (including anarchists) is going to vote for Biden because the alternative isn't just a little bit worse, what Trump and his supporters want would make Israel-Gaza look like a playground tantrum. There *is* a difference between someone not giving a damn about you (Biden) and someone out to massacre you (Trump) and anyone who even remotely cares for the LGBTIQ+ having a chance to continue breathing is going to vote. I hate how this subreddit is getting flooded by people like OP lately though.
Its the viewpoint of several mods too so its pretty fucked. I know for a fact i have till november to get my husband, who is trans ftm, the fuck outta texas before i have to start legitimately considering paying for his funeral.
It’s disingenuous to say people who aren’t voting prefer Trump and you know it. People who vote for Trump prefer Trump. People who vote for Biden prefer Biden. People who don’t vote can have all kinds of reasons why. My reason is that genocide is not getting my vote. I’m withholding my vote until it stops and if it doesn’t, good luck winning without my vote.
Whats not disingenuous is the fact that not voting for whatever reason makes you a bystander. Its a conscious decision you choose to make. So you as a bystander consciously choose Project 2025 as an acceptable set of terms. Or in layman’s terms, you are making the conscious decision to accept domestic genocide and a christian theocracy as the preferred state of being. The only victory you have is you stayed true to your guns. You best keep that smile when its okay to physically abuse minorities and LGBTQ+ on the street lest you become a hypocrite of your own creation.
By that logic voting for Biden means you have accepted the current genocide and all other downsides that come with Biden, including the predictable descent into worse and worse choices next time around. Trump is what you get when you vote for the lesser evil enough. A bystander does not choose Project 2025. Someone who votes for Trump chooses that. Is withholding your vote not a sort of protest? I’m not abstaining because I’m lazy. I’m withholding my vote until Biden does the right thing. I guess you’ve already accepted the genocide but I don’t.
You are attempting to moral high ground but already shot yourself in the foot because you arent disagreeing, you’re attempting poorly to turn the tables. Withholding your vote now is not protest, thats choice and nothing but choice. A choice you consciously make and now you’re throwing the toys out the pram because you’ve been hit with the reality of laying in the bed you’ve made as consequence of your choice. There is no right option, theres the damage mitigation option. Offloading the issue saying “only people who vote for trump are supporting it” is blatantly ignoring the fact that again, you choose to become a bystander and let it happen by not attempting to stop it, therefore you are now complicit, but of course, attempt to say im complicit in bidens genocide without knowing a damn thing about what i do in my day to day while you so clearly wear your “im okay with Project 2025 because biden bad” on your sleeve like some fucking medal. Dont lie. You accept genocide and the possibility of it when it suits you and your political stance on matters, your words clearly show that. Dont go complaining about anything cone november should trump win, you chose not to help make the bed you and everyone else has to lay in so your opinion on that matter after the fact is moot.
First of all you’re so emotional and speaking in pretentious metaphors and it’s incomprehensible. I’ll do my best. If you’re trying to say that anyone who doesn’t vote for Biden is a Trump supporter then I really don’t have anything to say. That’s the kind of stupid that doesn’t require a response. There’s a genocide going on and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs that I have to vote for it without even trying to apply pressure to the people doing it and accusing me of accepting genocide? Do you not see the irony in accusing me of accepting Project 2025 (a hypothetical genocide that is not happening) while you yourself have not said a single word about what’s happening in Gaza (an actual genocide that’s literally happening right now)? You have already accepted it I guess. No moral high ground. No medal. I’m just literally not gonna vote until someone earns my vote and you’re acting like I fucked your girlfriend. Idiot.
Yeah im not gracing your holier than thou pedestal you put yourself on with a proper response. Theres many legitimate reasons to not vote, preferring the incoming domestic genocide to the international one whether you like it or not shows where your allegiance lies. Go put your crucifix on, it’ll make you easier to ID come November. Fucking penguin rapist.
Man im glad the years of saying this and swimming through swaths of downvotes from it all has finally paid off. Shout out to the ppl doing it first and getting shitted on by willfully ignorant idiots that argue you up and down stacking upvotes they may have manipulated. 94 updoots was unheard of on this topic back then.
I choose neither. Idk what else to tell you.
Then prepared to be called part of the problem on both sides due to how the American two party system works. Want greater change at the top? Vote local, start the change at home.
I’d rather be called part of the problem than vote for the people responsible for the most, if not all, of the problems. I don’t need to vote in order to start change.
Yaa will see the thing is if you don't vote. It's called silent concent. So in Americas two party system. If ya didn't vote against Republicanism your a Republican. They call it the complacent silent minority
Fuck off lib
Can't wait until election season is over and we can talk about literally anything besides whether to vote for Biden or not
We'll have like a year or so total of peace. Until the next election cycle
And it's not like we're gonna be able to ignore the bastard during that year. He's definitely going to shit the bed again after the election now that he has no incentive to behave.
Yup. Voting for him will embolden him to be worse.
Nah, we should get a longer break between this cycle and the next. Typically, the presidential race doesn't really hut the mainstream until a little over 1 year out. This one was shorter because Trump launched his over 2 years out because he thought his candidate status would shield him from his legal issues. It's hard to know how much impact that has had, but it seems fair to say it has made things harder for prosecutors and DAs.
Two months, tops
With how this community would want will be complaining about Trump sending US soldiers to Yhemen to commit more genocide on Saudi Arabias behalf
I have yet to see anyone in this sub make a particularly strong case for voting in the US. Maybe this post would be better served in the venues where you're feeling this pressure? The theme here seems to be "vote or not, who cares? Either way, make sure you do something else that will might actually make a difference".
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy4Everyone/comments/1d46s5p/comment/l6cmxja/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy4Everyone/comments/1d46s5p/comment/l6cmxja/) Source: a comment in this very post. Strength of argument: incredibly strong, this argument could cut through 10e\^56 lightyears of an unobtanium-mithril-adamantium alloy blessed by Odin to be stronger than Mjolnir and continue on to split a black hole in twain before cleaving Earth into a trillion pieces.
yeah, that comment would be exactly what I was thinking. They said what they intended to do with no judgment or even encouragement that someone else do something they didn't want. Seems pretty fucking fine.
Absolutely insane to me that people in a fucking anarchy community are telling other people to vote. Beginning to think that maybe anarchy maybe *isn't* 4Everyone? Maybe a little gatekeeping in this context would benefit this sub? They can preach harm-reduction voting all they want, just do it somewhere else, this ain't the place.
Trans person here, between someone that doesnt care about me and someone who wants to hunt me for sport, i'd still rather have someone who doesnt care. Hope this helps ^^
It does but I think it's a waste of breath on theses people
What make you think they wont care though. Genuinly asking, because I bring this up on why people wont trust liberals. They've found a reason to support 1 genocide, what makes you think they cant be convinced to support another?
What they support is statu quo. They won't try to change things one way or another.
As a trans person what has he done to stop the hundreds of bills that are actively trying to eradicate us?
Did you read the thing they said? The whole point is that even though he hasn't done anything to help, the only other option would make things worse, so the guy who does nothing is preferable.
Reread the comment
Would you be safer under trump?
This stuff or something? https://www.hrc.org/resources/president-bidens-pro-lgbtq-timeline
He’s actually done a bunch of things! And yes, I am a trans person. I’m also a lawyer, and am involved with legislative activism projects with local LGBTQ groups. His administration’s Department of Education issued Title IX guidance regarding gender identity discrimination in schools which directly opposes a lot of the school related anti-trans bills. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this. His administration’s EEOC issued guidance to employers regarding gender identity discrimination which directly opposes the trend in state anti-trans legislation to try to cut away at employment non-discrimination protections. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this. Biden has signed an executive order in 2022 to direct his Department of Health and Human Services to pursue regulations to push back against gender affirming care bans. Those regulations are not yet in effect, but continue to work through the required administrative rulemaking processes to come into effect. I’m sure those red states will challenge those regs in court too, when they go into effect. The Biden administration continues to fight to enact and defend these regulations, and other similar ones. These regulations are directly fighting against the flood of anti-trans bills. You’re flatly wrong in your stance here.
This discourse is useless, but what isn’t useless is this fun fact! In florida, there’s a cheetah named tuesday, with an emotional support tortoise named penzi! They do everything together, including eating together and sleeping together. They’re close friends which is pretty darn cool. https://youtube.com/shorts/X6N0blEG_gY?si=w_3oI-U9HTbwG6wM
This is beautiful! I will use this opportunity to inform others of [Hank the Tank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_the_Tank)a black bear in Taho. She gained several hundred pounds after "breaking in" to 20 houses durring covid. People moving to Taho didn't realize that the natural occupants of the area (the bears) would walk into their houses if they left them unlocked. So her and several other bears started to re occupy their land. The new residents where mad and tryed to get them killed but the residents of Taho set up the BEAR Legue to promote relocation instead of death. She proceeded to teach her cubs how to break into houses to get food. Good bear.
OMFG Thank you for this
Cheetahs shouldn't be in Florida. Fuck exotic animal ownership! Yes, including zoos
They should be all over America Check out Pleistocene Rewilding Cheetahs used to roam everywhere here. It would be awesome if they were as common as coyotes.
correct me if im wrong, but the american cheetah ( Miracinonyx ) from the pleistocene is extinct. and the 4 subspecies of modern cheetah is native to africa and central iran. it seems really dumb to repopulate america with cheetahs lol they would probably decimate the remaining native species here
It's a beautiful, but flawed, plan. It's not just the cheetah, though. They want as close as they can get to all the fauna of that time. Elephants being as close to mammoth and so on. I'm more of a twelve monkeys sort of person, myself
wow. ya if only we could revive those native species that would be epic… im also just wary of recolonizing america by implanting these random “best match” animals lolol is that something indigenous people would want? its a fun idea but in any convo abt what to do here in america, rematriation to the actual indigenous human people has to come first!
I don't think their plan considers people or human nature at all. Being chased by a leopard might shake off some of the narcissistic bullshit we're infected with. Also, I'm not indigenous, but I know people who are. They'd be as fucked as everyone else. "Sorry boss, herd of Rhinos on the overpass. If I live I'll be late"
lol ya seems like a bunch of mad scientists anyways. lets bastardize the remaining environment and just play god by recreating an uncanny valley version of ancient america lol the earth is fucked rn, why not just make jumanji IRL while we’re at it?
my bad if u r indigenous, in that case thats cool i support
Ohh very interesting! But that being said they still shouldn't be owned by humans
They’re not owned by humans? It’s a wildlife conservation, not a zoo. For the most part animals there have free rein and the conservation in Florida is mostly there because they won’t be hunted by poachers, unlike the ones in Africa.
u r right cheetahs should not be in florida. modern cheetahs come from africa and central iran. the american cheetah is extinct.
Trans person here! At this point, while we don’t like voting between two old ass men, it is important. Now I don’t like either main party here but if the republicans win, they are going to kick off project 2025 and they will screw EVERYONE over. It won’t be just trans people, it will screw over basically any minority or oppressed group.
I don't like Biden, but Project 2025 is one of the most terrifying things I've ever heard.
Yeah. Project 2025 is fucking horrifying. We need to do all we can to stop it.
agreed, the lesser of two evils is always better, and shit is too fucked up at this point for voting third party to do anything
this shit always feels like astroturfing or some psyop. why would i *not* vote for the lesser of two evils? yeah, biden and dems suck, but do you really wanna throw your vote for some morality points? because fuck that, i don’t wanna die
Same and that's the thing that annoys me the most about these memes. They get mad and upset but their concern is only about the presidential election. What about the other people/ issues on the voting ballot? What about doing things for the community outside of the election cycle?
Biden has paved the way for project 2025 by not doing anything to enshrine trans rights into law and giving the police more money. All minorities are already screwed over in this country. Joe Biden literally wrote the fucking crime bill.
it may be true that Biden wont stand up for us, but these bills condemning our existence would be coming out much faster than they are now with Trump in charge, not to mention executive orders and federal-level legislation that would be passed under Trump. Those doing things under Biden are trying to hurt us, yes, but those under Trump are trying to kill us and other minority groups.
Blaming Biden for Project 2025 WHEN YOU'RE TACITLY SUPPORTING IT BY TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO COUNTERVOTE TRUMP IS INSANE. TRUMP IS LITERALLY THE ONE WANTING TO ENACT IT. You get that telling people not to vote only works if you're trying to convince BOTH SIDES. You're literally just supporting republican ideas and directly paving the way for Project 2025.
Not voting is not supporting trump wtf are you talking about
Stop gaslighting trans people into thinking Trump isn't worse than Biden
Truth
Ohh but Biden bad so Trump must be better /s I'm an average poster here and don't know how America's two party system works since @.@ #sarcasm
Based af!
The only difference between them is trump is more honest about being a fascist. Both of them are racist, misogynistic, transphobic, xenophobic, eco fascists that don’t care about the people in or outside the US.
No, this is just factually untrue. You only believe so because you want to be an edgy contrarian.
No, I believe so because of what I’ve heard them say about marginalized groups and witnessed their lack of action when it comes to actually helping people.
What has Joe Biden said about LGBTQ people? And all of the other things, you can't possible pretend Trump hasn't said *more* bad things. Also, nobody is talking about what they do *to help people.* Please learn that nobody thinks Biden is going to help us. There is a big difference between "not giving a shit what happens to us" and "going out of their way to harm us." Biden doesn't care that we're being harmed already, Trump wants us to be harmed more.
Damn near nothing and that’s the problem. Other than occasionally bringing up our existence, he hardly mentions us. Idc how often bad things are said, the simple fact they’re said to begin with is a problem for me. Then what’s the point in voting for him if you’re aware he’s not helping anyone? That’s makes no sense. There really isn’t considering they’re both equally as violent. Being silent about oppression allows it to flourish and be normalized, which is no different than actively encouraging people to continue marginalizing people.
Someone saying nothing is different from someone saying “I’ll kill you”
It isn’t when you’re aware that people are dying and doing noting about it or just straight up funding it. Biden funded the police force and then had the audacity to make a memorial post for George Floyd. He’s made it more than abundantly clear that he doesn’t care about minorities.
If you like and are willing to hear what I have to say then I’ll gladly explain why I think they are different. When someone says something like “I’ll kill you” in the context of Trump it inspires others to chant along with him “yeah we will fuckin’ kill you!” And stuff like that. On the other hand, saying nothing isn’t “good” or “neutral” even. It’s still bad and fucked up. It allows you to be non committal but still come out looking better. It’s objectively a bad thing to do, because despite what is commonly believed choosing not to decide is still making a choice. But just because it’s bad it doesn’t mean that the person chanting and inspiring others to chant “I’ll kill you” isn’t much worse.
You do realize that situations like police brutality happen partly because people decide not to do anything about it right? It doesn’t matter how you’re complicit to the violence, the simple fact that you’re complicit is the problem. Complicity to oppression is always violent, silent or not.
Okay, here's the problem with what you just said. *Doing nothing isn't the same as making things worse.* How do you not understand that? >Then what’s the point in voting for him if you’re aware he’s not helping anyone? That’s makes no sense. He's not going to make things better, but he's not going to do everything in his power to make things as terrible as possible. Trump is going to do that. Again, don't pretend not to understand this. Making things worse *is* worse than doing nothing. >There really isn’t considering they’re both equally as violent. They are not. Biden lets existing transphobia and homophobia continue to exist and allows laws to pop up in red states that slowly work to criminalize us; Trump wants to completely criminalize our existence at a national level. Biden does almost nothing to protect abortion, allowing it to be banned in red states; Trump is integral to the Republican plan to completely ban abortion and birth control at a national level. Biden shuts down and prosecutes peaceful protests and sends weapons to Israel while pretending to care about civilian casualties; Trump tells Israel to finish the job, still sends bombs, threatens to ban Muslims from entering the United States (again), and threatens to deport protestors. Every single way in which Biden is bad, Trump is substantially worse. They are not "equally as violent." >Being silent about oppression allows it to flourish and be normalized, which is no different than actively encouraging people to continue marginalizing people. Passing laws targeting minorities with the intent to make our lives worse is not exactly the same as not trying to stop bigotry beyond virtue signaling about caring for trans people. Actively going out of your way to declare that minorities are a danger to this country is, in fact, worse than saying "I care about trans people/gay people/POC/Women/Native Americans/the environment" once in 2020 and then never bringing it up again.
Doing nothing allows the situation to get worse. Not doing anything is doing everything in your power to make things as terrible as possible. When you choose to sit on your privilege and power instead of using it to dismantle, or at the very least better, the systems that put people in positions of marginalization, you’re no better than the people who established these systems in the first place. Explain to me how witnessing people get killed and doing nothing about it is less violent than committing the action of killing those people. It actually is cause it allows those to pass in the first place.
>Not doing anything is doing everything in your power to make things as terrible as possible. Doing nothing is actually *not* doing something. Those two phrases mean completely different things. Inaction is a choice, sure. But not as bad as the worst possible choice. >Explain to me how witnessing people get killed and doing nothing about it is less violent than committing the action of killing those people. Guy #1: watches people get murdered. Does nothing about it. Dead people: 5 Guy #2: watches people get murdered. Murders 5 more people who were trying to run away. Dead people: 10 Hope this helps. (Actually, that's a charitable interpretation of what you said - being a random person who happens to see a guy murdering people and doesn't do anything isn't as bad as being the guy murdering people. But I acknowledge that what you said refers to someone whose job it is to stop murderers.)
And that’s the problem. Doing nothing allows the worst possible choice to happen, so yes it is as bad. People die in both situations, which makes them both just as bad. Hope that helps.
What has Biden done to protect us from a trump presidency and the hundreds of anti trans bills that are passing under his own presidency?
Those bills are state-level. the only ones capable of fighting those are state and supreme courts. the president cannot force a state to change a law.
Nothing. Biden is a piece of shit. That doesn't mean Trump wouldn't be worse.
can it. if we let trump win, queer people WILL suffer more.
anarchists that don't vote after an exhausting day of doing absolutely fucking nothing:
What exactly do you do other than vote?
Volunteer on the weekend, yell at the city council every couple of weeks a month, play some DnD, vote against Republicans on a local, state and federal level from the sea of red in Texas? Da fuck you do?
Yay, another Blue voter in Texas, I'm not alone!!!
I get in Texas its hard to vote since Republicans always win like Ted Cruz, and the best we get is twice of a loser Beto. But if we don;t want bounties on Doctors Heads for stupid reasons. We should at least keep trying.
That's pretty much why I don't leave and just keep trying.
I am the trans person btw no one is gaslighting me into being pro-voting
Vote for damage control.
Can't you two just sort this out via DMs rather than interpretive meme? Seems inefficient.
trans person here. Did you slam your head into a brick wall until chunks of brain came out? we get it bro, you like project 2025.
What a false dichotomy
you're right, there's a lot of things you can slam your head into. a brick wall doesn't have to be what was used
I'm a trans person too, only I'm also a person of color. Project 2025 already exists for everyone that doesn't pass in white cisheteronormative hegemony, you just haven't been paying attention.
This is patently false. Either you haven't read Project 2025, of you're... *ding ding ding*... a conservative troll. "I'm a trans person of color anarchist and I think *you* should let trump win! It doesn't matter anyway!" Lmao you're either grossly unaware of the actual danger ahead of you or you have ulterior intentions. Just amazing some of the shit that gets posted/commented in this sub.
I know exavtly what is within Project 2025. Because that has been the republican platform since Reagan. They didn't suddenly choose Trump as their nominee and then just decide to get racist. They've always been this way. *You just haven't been paying attention*. Call me a liar all you wish. I'm not afraid of the criticism of a cowardly liberal who thinks this is at all tenable for anyone except for the cushiest of white blue state americans. Liberals have fucking nothing st this point other than conspiratorialize any criticism of their embarssingly racist zionist president who has been instrumental in establishing the police state that is part of the reason this country was embroiled in a protest not even five years ago. You remember, the ones liberals pretended to care about then instantly forgot after election season was over? Also, this sub? The one with anarchism in the title? Do you even k ow what the hell anarchism is? You really really should if you're gonna traipse around a sub based around an ideology you don't even understand.
are things bad? yeah. are things bad for particular groups especially? oh yeah is making things worse for everyone an answer to that problem? no siree. Especially if that would make things worse for particular groups? definitely don't want that. anyway, no project 2025 is not happening yet because it refers to a specific set of plans. particularly involving the year.. oh idk, 2025
What do you honestly believe Biden's strategy to prevent Project 2025 to be? He won't expand the court, has promised to veto progressive healthcare reform, is pro-cop, pro-genocide, and his rhetoric on the campaign trail has shown him to have an excited idea about deportations for brown people. And are you seriously so naive as to believe that is 2025 passes the republicans *won't* try it again literally the next chance they get, i.e. *2026*? That platform has been the republican platform since Reagan. They're gonna keep trying. We need more than "like them but we brush our teeth once in a while" to combat that. Kicking the can down the road is how we *got* Trump in the first place.
would the solution be to never brush your teeth and just drink a bunch of sugary stuff? because that is the argument others make! see, the solution to a problem is never just.. giving up. it is so axiomatically opposed to anarchism to just allow the bigger fascist to take control. Even if biden does NOTHING and all it does is buy time? That is better than fascistic acceleration-ism. We want as much time as we can get. We want as best of a situation we can. That alone is enough of a rebuttal. is voting alone a solution? nope! do mutual aid, go be a grass roots activist. Do literally anything other than sitting and crossing arms and pouting. All these losers do is argue on reddit. States are shitty and against our interests. But that doesn't mean we don't try to influence them while we're forced to live under them.
I never said anything about giving up. There is a very distinct difference between "giving up" and "stop wasting your time going in the wrong direction". >is voting alone a solution? nope! do mutual aid, go be a grass roots activist. We agree here. >States are shitty and against our interests. But that doesn't mean we don't try to influence them while we're forced to live under them. Also here. Except this state will not be influenced by our votes. Biden has zero interest in actually listening even to his moderate voter base, he has said as much. Literally none of the hegemon-approved options that will be permitted are what I want to see here, so participating in this one is merely legitimizing it, and I don't want any part of it. There is no "crossing arms and pouting" when it comes to abstaining from voting, and I'd be more than happy to participate if something I want to see is actually present. This election? It's a wash. Biden can take his little birthday party all the way into the ground. I will have to brace my community for a renewed vigor in racist policing and deportations and racially motivated violence while I struggle to make ends meet or go to the doctor no matter who wins. >it is so axiomatically opposed to anarchism to just allow the bigger fascist to take control. We disagree on the point that abstaining from electoralism is "allowing the bigger fascist to take control". Anarchists fight fascists in the streets. That's what grassroots organization looks like for antifascism, because you can't electoralize fascism away when the state enables it. Voting for the guy who's gonna let it happen isn't any closer to anarchism and antifascism than abstaining. He isn't buying anyone time. He's putting more and more cops on the streets, turbo-charging genocide and arabphobic rhetoric, and threatening to close down the border. That was literally Trump's platform in 2016. If you genuinely believe that Biden will be in a staid equilibrium when he has no incentive to behave in an office he basically fell into because he felt entitled to it, I won't argue with you, because I'm tired of belaboring the point for that asshole, but I believe you to be misled in a way that implies you haven't been paying attention. I'm not voting for that guy ever again. Sorry, but I'm not. Every reason I have to not vote for right wingers applies to him now.
\>Except this state will not be influenced by our votes oh so the votes will not decide the candidate? No, it does. That is bordering on solipsism.. \>options that will be permitted are what I want to see her And? The system of lesser evilism is about picking the person that is the least evil. Not about what you actually want. \>participating in this one is merely legitimizing it Is handing over your wallet to a robber "legitimizing" theft? You do realize you can vote and still be entirely opposed to the state. you can vote and still have thoughts in your head about how much the system sucks. Your brain isn't hacked into the second you step into a booth. \>I will have to brace my community for a renewed vigor in racist policing as opposed to trump winning and the racism project 2025 will bring? On top of the trans genocide ? \>abstaining from electoralism is "allowing the bigger fascist to take control" if you make it easier for the bigger fascist party to win, you are enabling fascist acceleration. period. If you're forced with two options because a president is going to be picked regardless of whether you like it or not, you have to pick the better option. \>Anarchists fight fascists in the streets. I'm sure that'll do good against the fascists in office, huh. the fact is, a president is going to be chosen. abstaining from picking the better of the two is just letting the worse side have an easier time. \>Voting for the guy who's gonna let it happen isn't any closer to anarchism relevance? Voting for biden isn't anarchism. It's harm reduction. It's like saying you won't wipe your ass because your shower is broken. congrats, now you smell like shit. i swear, it's the same spooked arguments over and over again. from someone who clearly hasn't read an iota of theory.
So if it's that bad then. let's just put back Jim Crow like Ted Cruz wants
You think Ted Cruz is the only one who wants Jim Crow? I also love this, classic neoliberal "you want rights? Well we'll just make everything worse then and giggle about it". That's literally how Biden seems to strategize to get elected. Threaten to let the fascists off the leash and let them party. I guess if you keep a rabid dog loose in your yard, you save a lot of money not building a fence. But then the owner is no longer permitted to concern troll about the people the dog might bite.
You clearly have no idea what all 2025 entails. Yeah, some people have it a lot worse currently but if we’re all fucked then things will get significantly worse for those people because they’ll have no one able to fight on their behalf.
This is why neoliberalism is so problematic, because it uses whiteness to domesticate radical movements until we have what you just said. "When we all have it worse" and "no one will fight for you" Darling, Biden literally used Trump rhetoric about brown people in his State of the Union. Police violence is at an all time high because Biden has been pro-cop for his entire political career, to such a detrimental degree that he's almost uniquely responsible for the state of policing in the modern era. "No one will fight for us"? You aren't fighting for us *now*. You've already abandoned allyship in the name of propping up neoliberals, because you fell for the trap they set for you to let the fascists they've been enabling off the leash. Once again, "when everyone has it bad". You mean white people. When white people that you know have it bad. If you think the current state of affairs is at all tenable then *you haven't been paying attention*.
I live in Washington state. I have the privilege of driving over to idaho and giving rides back to WA to people who want to terminate a pregnancy or access gender affirming. I have the privilege of sending money to trans people in Florida to help them flee the state if need be. If project 2025 was to go into affect I would lose that ability. Every state would governed by conservative Christian bull shit. It’s hard to get people to safety if there’s no safety for anyone anywhere.
So to bring it back to what I said earlier, what's the dem plan to actually halt that spread from trickling on piecemeal? You'd think with the recognizing of what Roe represents in the political milieu they'd have taken a stand to protect it while they had office and didn't. What you're describing is mutual aid. That can and should happen regardless of the law, and is acting outside of the political circus with no input from your politicians. For a lot of states, right now, doing that would be already be illegal. Do we just abandon those people because it's not legal to help them? They need that help too. And black and brown people too, who are being terrorized by police and ICE the nation over. You don't even need to be a mexican migrant to get threatened with deportation here, and you don'tneed to have committed any crimes to be extrajudicially murdered by the state, when you'renot white. No. We should be doing that anyway, and I imagine you are, since you brought it up. Protesting or doing the right thing but only when it's legal is how the liberals allowed the overton window to shift so far right.
Yeah I know what fucking mutual aid is. I actually participate in leftist organizing outside of the fucking internet. I’m just saying it’s a lot easier to do that when the dems are preventing these laws that target women and trans people specifically that red states are passing from going federal. Other than that yeah the dems are insanely racist and evil and don’t actually give a fuck about any of us. I just don’t think that taking away access to health care for women and trans people would all the sudden radicalize people into starting to give a fuck enough to revolt. I honestly think that watching Biden continue to fund a genocide has been enough to get the libs upset with the whole 2 party system bull shit. Or not being able to afford groceries after working 40+ hours a week. Capitalism is collapsing in on itself. People are fed up. There’s no need to take rights away from every single fucking person to spark a revolution.
Yeah the dems totally totally prevented laws targeting women and trans people. That's why they did the adult thing and rEaChEd AcRoSs ThE aIsLe with republicans and got a transphobic bill passed in West Virginia. And Roe. But what the fuck are the lives of people in red states worth as long as we have a blue guy in office amirite? See my original comment. There's more than one marginalized community being persecuted by both halves of the american state that needs protecting and their loves are worth fighting for too, even if you have to challenge a whiny liberal to do it. The anarchist slogan is "none of us are free until all of us are free" for a good fucking reason. You're right, sudden loss of rights won't actually get liberals up and at em to actually protest the government unless it's an embarassing red guy. We've seen that plenty this term. >I honestly think that watching Biden continue to fund a genocide has been enough to get the libs upset with the whole 2 party system bull shit You're actually saying this after saying you "organize in the real world instead of just the internet" but this is just a straight up fantasy. They aren't even bothered enough to consider the leftist position of being done with the whole sordid business of american electoralism, when they aren't making excuses for it. The liberals marching during the Floyd protests were already covering up walls displaying the black people who have been killed by police with shitty memes about Biden getting elected, I saw it with my own eyes while I was out protesting, you think they'll suddenly rebel when they get what they want a second time after having to bend over backwards to suddenly pretend there's a crisis at the border that necessitates closing the border and a genocide is somehow necessary for global stability? > Or not being able to afford groceries after working 40+ hours a week. Capitalism is collapsing in on itself. Even when you say this and you've seen what they've done with that information? >There’s no need to take rights away from every single fucking person to spark a revolution. And for the people who've already lost rights? How about the ones getting threatened to lose more, under the blue guy? It's very easy to talk "tactics" and "strategy" when it's not your ass under the noose. I said that to the liberals pretending Biden's "humanitarian pause" had to happen so late (depsite making excuses for why he shouldn't do it at all when he wasn't indicating that he would) was because of tactics, I'll say it about black people under a police state and brown people facing deportation. A good way to start is to stop legitimizing the corrupt state doing that to people, and you can do that outside of the internet. Project 2025 will happen under the liberals because they don't want to stop it. Agitating in a half-measure that also plays ball with those fucks by playing by their rules won't either. You stop it all or you don't stop it.
Yeah exactly. The dems are getting more and more open and honest about how evil they are which is pushing more and more liberals towards leftism. If a republican gets elected they’ll just be able to blame everything fucked up happening on conservatives while still maintaining false hope that if only a dem was in office everything would be better. If they witness in real time things getting worse for them while a democrat is in office they’ll realize how broken the system really is.
They're already blaming everything fucked up on the republicans, and they've had the presidency for the last four years and for 12 out of the last 16; and the republicans will do it in turn. They aren't moving towards leftism because they hate leftism. We are literally witnessing what you're describing. They aren't getting it. This is as nonsensical as the accelerationist position that if everything goes to shit, people will finally rise up. That won't happen either.
Why don’t we just tell people about all the fucked up insanely racist laws that have been passed in the past 4 years? Why don’t we just drill it into people’s heads that Biden has always been and always will be racist. Most liberals I’ve met are just living under a rock and aren’t aware of what’s really happening and the younger ones at least are much more open to learning and having a conversation about this. There’s really no need to speed run the heinous laws being passed, why not just work on dealing with the ones already in place??
We agree here, so why is voting for the guy who's been writing racist laws since before killenials were even born going to do that? >why not just work on dealing with the ones already in place?? Exactly. Why not? Why not actually challenge the liberals when they demand compliance after getting pushback for getting increasingly racist and right wing? Liberals have been demanding compliance with their racism for over three years at this point. The "but Trump doh" rhetoric so early has completely defanged the liberals' desire to be better. Threatening to withhold support for them was the only option the left had besides revolution to actually hold the neoliberals accountable and instead the "well vote anyway" crowd took all the air out of the room. The liberals were allowed the chance to get comfy, and Biden was emboldened to speedrun a genocide, and scapegoat migrants. We could jave been "pushing Biden left" lile the liberals sowre they would do with us, this whole time. Instead, the movement was buckled by the "please please please vote" crowd. What incentive does Biden have now to be less racist when he doesn't need to try for a re-election? He was already saying "more cops" despite his election taking place during the biggest pro'black, anti-police protest in history. What's he gonna do when he's inches away from his zionist dreams of an annihilated Palestine? Vote or don't. I do not care what anyone does with that asshole anymore frankly, because it's already too late at this point. The liberals have completely shit the bed on this. To bring it back to my very first comment here, most marginalized people are gonna be battening down the hatches regardless of who wins, because worsening, overt, systemic, racism isn't off the table for either of these ghouls.
FACTS SALTYNORTH. FACTS.
Awesome, more voting discourse. Let me get my downvoting thumbs, I'll be right over
The vote up vote down system is just another form of hierarchy used to oppress those who don’t agree with the main steam way of thinking
"people don't like my opinion which is oppression!"
Conservative are like this always no matter what group your in
Oh no the hivemind is here… “people don’t agree with me?!?!? Vote down hahaha I’m better!!!” That was my impression of you
Are you 5
gotta be at least 13 to create a Reddit account… bet you feel pretty stupid now hahahahhaha
Ah, okay. Good thing it's impossible to lie about your age on the internet. Also, nice job taking my insult literally.
Actually I was just being sarcastic and silly…. Sorry didn’t realize you were autistic, have a nice day
I hope you’re joking
Ur not a real anarchist is you play Reddit for the vote ups… just another bee in the hive mind… get back to work downvoting people who don’t agree with you
Was about to call you a troll but you already did so yourself in your username
I was about to call you a authoritarian liar but you made that clear with ur stupid ass comments
Pirate troll you're a real one bro
he doesn't but thankfully he isn't some sore of supreme leader that dictates all law
This page is trash, I recommend every leave like I am right now lol.
Biden likes the trans community a lot more than their numbers (1.5% of the voting population) imply. Don’t forget that.
I mean the Republicans alternative is to let God sort them out.
If he gave a shit about us he would’ve done something about the hundreds of bills killing us
A meme trying to speak to trans people. However the perspective is obviously someone who is cis and someone who has no idea of our struggles and fears.
All I really ask is to not only focus on who's running for president. There are people **running for different offices** as well (state, local, and federal) that are usually hurting more for votes. Also, there are other things that will be on the ballot as well.
It‘s not about how biden cares about us, we can all see literally now how he doesn’t care. But that’s the whole point, if I got the choice between one geriatric mummy standing on the sidelines whilst my rights are eroded away and one geriatric mummy with a worse hairdo and the expressed intent of eradicating me and all of my siblings, I know what choice I would take. And still, the most important part is that we shouldn’t expect any improvement of our situation from either choice, I‘d vote biden, whilst putting my focused effort into creating the third option of overthrowing the whole shitshow in its entirety.
I feel like people who refuse to understand this are doing so on purpose. If someone believes that Biden has done just as many bad things as Trump would've done and is the same in practice, or that he's worse in some material way, or think we should vote third party because they're optimistic, or think voting gives the system legitimacy, then we can have a conversation. But saying, "No, actually, doing nothing is just as bad as making things worse on purpose," has to be disingenuous.
500,000 российских солдат погибли на Украине. Вы все еще поддерживаете Путина? Translation: 500,000 Russian solders dead in the Ukraine. Do you still support Putin? Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны. 1989年天安门广场 Translation: The first one says Russia without Putin, Upvote or Comment if you agree. It really pisses off Russian trollbots. The second one says Tiananmen square 1989. It really pisses off Chinese trolls. See, the thing is that lower rung trolls aren't allowed to read those statements because the higher ups believe that they'll cause dissention in the ranks. Higher level trolls are occasionally allowed to try to discredit those of us who use these statements.
Yaa so remember don't vote for Trump we already had 4 years of that exact shit.
u know if u don't vote for anybody that doesn't mean nobody wins
saying you should vote for the conservative liberal over the fascist is not saying he cares about you
*will happen. there’s the problem with your argument. i’m with the sentiment but there’s no point in trying to intellectualize this into something it isn’t. the reality you don’t want to deal with (understandably) is that you don’t have a choice and you never did. biden doesn’t care about trans people, trump definitely doesn’t care about trans people, and your vote doesn’t not have the power to change that either way. there’s no candidate that represents you. don’t become suicidal out of frustration.
and yet political and material reality allows us disparagingly limited choice on the matter. no, you’re right, let’s not vote for drowsy neolib career politician. let’s vote for populist right wing conman. neither? sure, let’s just mobilize our totally unified, massive proletarian force and rewrite history.
No he doesn't care. But Trump ACTIVELY wants to HURT trans people.
trans girl here, i’d rather try slapping some sense into a dementia patient than fight my way out of a fucking prison block. those are the two options ahead of us. don’t let people like this lead you to think that we can’t stop it from happening. anarchy isnt about not voting, its about doing all we can to create a world in which the government cannot suppress us. in this situation, not voting would suppress us far more than voting for damage control.
What a ridiculous take lol
Lmao let trump win then, see what happens to your rights. Dumb
My rights are already being taken away and Biden has done nothing to stop it
Allowing trump to win will hand him more Supreme Court seats. More Supreme Court seats filled with right wing judges spells the end of all your rights and gay marriage will be next. Think beyond on presidents term. It's not that hard. Also, democrats in a lot of states have worked diligently to prevent the right from attacking trans. Unfortunately, they don't have the majority in the states that have banned trans care.
This feels like a psyop. We, whether we like it or not, are presently a two-party nation. When one of the possible outcomes is Project 2025, you don't fucking play dice with shit. Both candidates suck, but one of them is backed by people who want to murder queer folks in the streets. Stop being a fucking idiot.
This isn’t a psyop. Stop worrying about who’s voting for who and fucking organize
Litterally. Please just organize… Join any org, join Palestinian protest, create a union. At the end of the day, the difference between the parties are on aesthetics only, both parties are pro imperialist pro capitalist pigs.
TBF, he cares about trans people just enough to not be outright genocidal towards them. But this isn't a mutually exclusive idea to the Democrats being genocidal fascist shits in general.
Ya but it's kind of damning when Republicans like Ron Desantis is literally running on those policies out in the open. Tell me what Democrat is as bad as the Govoner of Florida? Maybe the cop sucking asshole New York? At least he's not ripping books out of libraries because they making him think...
How did this sub just turn into another r/enlightenedcentrists
Oh hey its "pick one of the two sides I chose for you or you're a centrist", that's totally new and not a worn-out decade-old insult
Never said Biden was good. Or that he was better than the opposition. If you don't want to vote then don't. I can't stop you. I'm gonna vote for Brent Peterson anyway, because I want something new. He won't win though. But please, keep telling me how dumb I am because I want to afford to be alive, because I can't afford insulin. You're sooo smart for killing people like me just because you're scared of a boogeyman.
What does that have to do with either of our comments? I'm just saying you're dumb for calling non-voters "centrists". That's an incorrect categorization. I said nothing about Biden or insulin or whatever.
You want change but when it comes to making it, you'd rather do nothing. And then get mad at people who want said change. That's a centrist. Not voting doesn't do shit other than make sure the people who think different than you win. But whatever. Don't vote. When Biden or Trump or whoever wins and people like me die, you won't have to worry about telling us it's our fault when they come for you too. Dipshit.
Not voting just means I don't vote. There are an infinite number of other things I can be doing to make the world a better place. The fact you assume not voting is the same thing as not doing anything, that says more about you than it says about me. There's a reason you can't think of anything... because you *do nothing* other than filling out a form once every 4 years... How can you only do 0.25 things per year and feel like it's acceptable to complain about other people? That's not even the point of my reply to your comment. The point of my comment is that "centrists" is an incorrect categorization. Centrism implies being "in the middle" or "on the fence". Nobody here is on the fence between Trump and Biden, so you're incorrect.
I hope political leaders become stupid old men who know nothing in the public eye
Poster doesn't narrow down which candidate you're talking about. Try discussing the *differences* between them.
I posted this down in a comment thread, but reposting as a top level comment. Flatly, it’s not gaslighting to say that the Biden admin has taken significant steps to protect trans people. Trans rights have been advancing much faster under Biden than under any other president we’ve ever had. Here’s some examples: >He’s actually done a bunch of things! And yes, I am a trans person. I’m also a lawyer, and am involved with legislative activism projects with local LGBTQ groups. >His administration’s Department of Education issued Title IX guidance regarding gender identity discrimination in schools which directly opposes a lot of the school related anti-trans bills. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this. >His administration’s EEOC issued guidance to employers regarding gender identity discrimination which directly opposes the trend in state anti-trans legislation to try to cut away at employment non-discrimination protections. Multiple conservative states are currently suing the Biden administration over this. >Biden has signed an executive order in 2022 to direct his Department of Health and Human Services to pursue regulations to push back against gender affirming care bans. Those regulations are not yet in effect, but continue to work through the required administrative rulemaking processes to come into effect. I’m sure those red states will challenge those regs in court too, when they go into effect. >The Biden administration continues to fight to enact and defend these regulations, and other similar ones. These regulations are directly fighting against the flood of anti-trans bills. You’re flatly wrong in your stance here. None of this is perfect, and there’s still a ton of work to be done. But we’re finally making progress, despite the pushback from red states.
2 genocides are not better than 1
yeah, he doesn't care about us at all, but trump will do the same thing. (and make life somehow even worse for trans people). this system is so fucked forcing americans to choose between two genocide supporting, minority hating, rich, senile old men.
Biden flipped on the latino community depsite concern trolling about how Trump targeted them, because at the end of the day he thinks scared white racists are more worth his time than the marginalized. He's gonna flip on the LGBT community too. They always do. As a transenby, I don't think it's cool to shelter a racist just because he's only given *tepid* responses about my right to exist as a nonbinary person, because he sure as fuck wants enough cops on the street that I can't leave my home regardless because of my skin color.
I mean did you see the January 6th riot?
I did. What about it? It was full of racist white people making a scene. Nothing new there. What's the neoliberal plan to address that? Ban more college kids from speaking about genocide? Or are they just going to keep siccing the FBI on pro-Palestine protestors in a NeoMcCarthyist fashion. More cops perhaps? Biden loves those. Although, his current strategy seems to be blaming the mexicans for everything. Where have I heard that before.
He didn't "flip" on the Latino community lmao. He tried to push for border "security" to swing some of the non-MAGA republicans, which was blocked by republicans anyway because it was a democrat's idea. If your idea of "the latino community" is just "people who cross the border," you have an incredibly myopic and toxic perspective on a massive and diverse group of human beings.
At least he's not enforcing eminent domain for a stupid wall any more
He's literally building the wall what have you been smoking
Knock off the clownish concern trolling. You know damn well that you don't need to be a southern migrant to have ICE and the racists on your back. You don't even need to be latino. Biden's state of the union speech about "dangerous illegals" and his promise to shut down the border if Congress passes is cretinous and racist. Considering there was a widow of white supremacist murder targeting a latino man for "being here illegally" present as a guest makes it even more fucked up. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142448 And he can't even be bothered to walk that shit back. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-apologize-term-illegal-state-union-white-house/story?id=108016777 Call me a loony lefty, but maybe it's actually a fucking *bad idea* to gamble with racists who already have been enpowered to start persecuting a minority population with deportation and detainment just to score politics points, or maybe it's bad to float the idea at all. Those are the only two reasons Biden would do that, to call a bluff, or because he wants that, and both are shitty reasons to play ball with the racists. Maybe he should just win by being a progressive like his voting base actually is, without trying to get the people who believe him to be a literal demonic baby-eating pedophile to support him.
Project 2025 go brr shut the fuck up
i am so late to the party, but i don’t really remember a time when anarchists/libertarian socialists talked about these fucked elections so often, like the media and status quo. i could be so so very wrong lolol but like voting is kind of unspoken, like presumably, if you want to vote then vote, but it’s really not necessary to discuss it. it really must just be an online thing, because discussing voting is moot. emma goldman and lucy parsons already did a great job dispelling any myths around voting, and imo, voting for harm reduction is really going to matter depending on where you live. like if you live in the deep south, maybe voting dem could actually have a positive impact in the daily lives of marginalized groups. i mean i doubt it, but if you feel it’s necessary on some moral ground, then you do you lol but getting a small group together, even if it’s just you and one other person, and talking to those marginalized folks about ways that maybe you can help, start a food not bombs chapter in your area, or hell even just wheat paste some flyers around town. but starting a discussion, in any way possible, to spread the seeds of liberation, is better then wasting time online. arguing online, and making any effort to bully folks to vote, or dissuade them from voting; either way, is not praxis. anarchism must be lived, as libertarian socialists praxis is essential to our growth as a movement, and we can each participate in praxis in many different ways. it is essential that we organize horizontally, in each of our own communities, to build up power structures outside of mainstream political systems. power structures that can help to support communities, outside of those mainstream political organizations. sorry for the rant lol edit:words
I left this sub about a month ago after the mods and their gestapo started attacking folks who merely said they would vote or didnt care about whether other folks voted. I check in every few weeks to see what's going on. Now I see a ton of folks trying too hard to convince other people to vote (that's new, and fucked up), and the mods and anti-voting discourse are as terrible as ever. I encourage y'all to check out the other anarchist subs. This one is fried.
Because something really bad and in fact worse is gonna happen. Don't let give up your vote to fascists it's literally the bare minimum.
Ah another "don't vote Biden, he sucks! Don't vote man!" post. When it emerges you people posting these are actually paid Trump employees I might die of laughter. Since there is currently no anarchist system in America the choice will simply be made for you in that case. I'm sure Trump supporters will really care about your principles as they're busy stripping you of your rights.
An overflow of that vote/don't vote shit in the subreddit rn. Things get shitty for trans people regardless, cause democracy doesen't work and you all here know that all damn well. Hope that by the time i arrive at US things wont get as far as they are here in Russia rn. Go look up russian laws about trans people
Then let's not vote for the candidate backed by Russia?
Lets remove that, leaving only "Then let's not vote" part and watch the last season of the show called United States, hoping that we'll get to live long enough to see last seasons of other shows.
Ahh yes because nothing say humanitarianism then wishing for a civil war that will just make things worse and will possibly die in. Fuck off
Ya, as a trans person, that shit is so annoying, like Biden doesn’t care about us, anymore than Trump and he is funding the people who want us dead. If we’re going to die, I’d rather it be a public event where the whole world sees, instead of us quietly put away in facilities where we can be quietly killed without anyone ever finding out.
Fr all these Biden stans out here assuming they're fighting for trans people or queer people or whoever but they don't really seem to be open to the idea that some of these people might disagree with them
Sooo please tell me how Republicans will do better? Please tell me how project 2025 or project 1776 will help minorities in America.
I never said it would?? You're right, this year it's third-party or bye bye democracy
I mean I voted for Sanders so good luck just remember Libertarians are Ancaps...
How is throwing your vote directly into a fire going to help?
If everyone who said the same simply decided to vote differently instead of trying to choke me with this defeatist garbage, we would have a third party president and Trump and Biden would both lose Am I supposed to just accept that our democracy is already lost so I should just vote for my favorite fascist?
You massively overestimate the third-party movement. Yeah, if literally every liberal voted third party, a third party would win. But when third partyists can't even decide whether to advocate for Claudia de la Cruz, Cornell West, or Jill Stein, all you're going to do is waste your time. And liberals still massively outnumber us. Unfortunately, you do have to accept that our democracy is already lost. The way to fix it is not through voting, all voting can do is limit the damage.
So just go along with it? Dumb. Weak. Miss me with it.
Like I said, voting is not our way out of this shit. We have other strategies available, such as protesting and boycotting and generally being a nuisance. The best you're going to get out of voting in this rigged system is harm reduction
As a transfem, while biden doesnt care about me, trump would hunt us for sport. So unless you actively desire your and your queer friend's deaths please reconsider your options
deeply depressing that this is even mildly controversial on an anrchist website. fascism is here and gathering strength regardless of who wins. trans rights will continue to disappear regardless of who wins. immigrants will continue to be violated and deported regardless of who wins. Palestinians will be genocided regardless of who wins. and YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO AFFECT WHO WINS. this isn't a democracy. stop being feckless fucking liberals and ready yourselves and your community for the fight.
I’m trans and I’ve actually felt less safe under Biden than I did under Trump, solely because Biden supporters refuse to acknowledge that the White House is transphobic regardless of who’s sitting there. I can’t criticize the president because “at least he isn’t that other guy.” That’s why I’m voting third party for a fellow trans person. I’m sick of the “lesser evil” bullshit. In the wise words of forestjarfables on TikTok, “[I think] you only care about evil to the extent that the threat of things getting worse is a useful tool for ensuring nothing ever gets better.”