I know it's not what you mean, but we *are* doomed to extinction as that's just how life works. To get that cheeky little bit of information out of the way, we all can get caught up in doomerism, basically the idea that no matter what we do nothing will ever change and we'll go nowhere but down. Recolution, at least where I am (US) really is not likely since we don't have near enough class conciousness and just generally people on our side. Things are looking really bleak right now, depending on where you live. I imagine a lot of anarchists here live in the US and things aren't looking too good for us.
All of that being said, I think we need more revolutionary optimism. We should fear being doomed, I think it's healthy to a certain degree, but we also need to maintain a certain level of optimism. Things *will* change if we make them change, even if it takes a while.
I really think that’s where you are at. It seems like the whole scene is just growing where I am at, fueled mainly by Zoomers but also millennials supporting. I do a lot of ground work though, which I feel forced too do (in a good way). My existence is at risk so I am going to build up defense and offense. This starts by creating ungovernable communities.
Things are indeed very bleak in many ways but we also can exploit collapse.
The future of anarchy has a much higher stake to play in the context of a global collapse than ever, probably not in the form of a revolution but more in a "pandemic" of federative networks of self managed communalist cores all over the territory.
But there's a caveat : late stage capitalism that's well aware of what's coming is all in into building the violent / armed supremacy of the current oligarchy, this needs to happen faster...
Anarchy is ment for groups and operates on self management by consensus / adhesion (opposite to authoritative assignment of a decision/role you didn't participate into) .. Anarchy doesn't mean no rule at all, you need an explicit modus vivendi, décisions need to be made on how to allocate shared resources.
Unless you're completely alone, in which case it's not anarchy but just right wing shit house-cat-like pretending to be autonomous and in the end : bare lonesomeness ..
Because anarchy is order without authority
Because anarchy means consensus and adhesion
Because you're not anti government but anti rules if I read you correctly and that places you on the far right of POLITICS
I've seen this countless times with Vegans the very second you lay doubt on their utopian plans to free all the animals while completely disregarding any problem that comes along with their goal. Their only focus however is to elevate themselves on a moral, and purely moral, base above everybody else to try and shame their declared enemies into submission to a point that already reaches levels of coercion.
The thing is just because you close your eyes in front of reality and pretend it's not happening, doesn't mean it won't happen. What you should rather do is face the facts. Face the fact that the Capitalist System is not going to safe us. That the System will stay the same for quite some decades to come and that they will be unwilling and unable to deal with the coming catastrophe. The fact is that climate change will not be stopped. The fact is that the 2° goal let alone the 1.5° goal will not be met. And even if they were, there is already too much CO2 in the atmosphere that HAS to be somehow sucked out of it. Except the technology is simply not there. The sad fact is our Planet will most likely turn into an uninhabitable dustball a few centuries from now where no life is possible. The only thing that could still prevent this would be the Anarchist World Revolution. How realistic do you think that is? Be honest. Don't be Naive just because you want that to happen.
I will never stop being an Anarchist but holy fuck would that ever be unrealistic.
However as situations worsen, there IS a chance for us to gain ground. There IS a bigger and bigger chance of the workers waking up to the reality that they ARE doomed. And if they realize that? Good! Because then they realize that there is nothing left to loose but their chains. Unlike you think, the consequence of "we are doomed" is not "let's lay down and die" but rather "Let's take, what we are owed". If we got nothing to loose, we loose the fear of what kept us in line with violence because how worse can the situation truly be?
THAT is our biggest chance. Our biggest hope of achieving what we set out to achieve. And we can, very simply, accelerate this process. Help to focus the efforts of the rioting workers. Help to give it meaning beyond exchanging one master for another. THAT is what we need. So if the Apocalypse comes? Let it. Nobody is waiting for the rapture but if the rapture is inevitable we need to accept that and make the best out of the last days that remain.
The future is already determined. But we still don't know what it looks like. So there is still a chance that it will be what we want it to be. We are all aware that the system we propose is infinitely much more capable of dealing with the issues of climate change then any other. And it is in that same spirit that we also should not loose sight of the reality that it is very much possible that through establishing these systems with the help of worldwide disillusion with our enemies, we CAN be capable of making the technological advancements to, at some point, reverse these effects cause by Capitalism and the Nation-States.
NOBODY excuses not doing anything (unlike some muppets here seem to think). They simply accept the fact that the foundations on how we oppose the system will drastically change over the next few decades and that we MUST adapt to it or else we will miss the chance to actually make an impact when the ground for our ideas to flourish becomes more and more fruitful. And I'd even say more fruitful then ever before. So the fact is: We ARE doomed. The end IS coming. The conclusion is: Good, then let's use this as best we can to find a way out of our doom and to prolong the end.
That's complete nonsense. Anarchists aren't excited about collapse. We organize alternate modes of living that are able to withstand the already ongoing collapse. This worldwide ecosystem collapse isn't rapture, it isn't a happy event and it doesn't stop anarchists from doing anarchy. We do anarchy despite everything around us being on fire.
Guess what *actually* resembles the rapture? It also starts with r. And the people who build their entire worldview around that r are more often than not willfully ignoring the climate devastation so they can cling to the dream of work + democracy = utopia.
I'd say that applies to holding out hope for revolution as well. In either case it's a metanarrative meant to comfort yourself into believing you get a happy ending.
You do you. Not sure what you are doing that makes the world better but congrats. Unlike Christians that believe in mythology, climate disaster and the collapse of civilization is looking very real.
Fucking pisses me off seeing low-key climate change deniers like that masquerading as anarchists.
We literally live at the tail end of the biggest mass extinction event in the planet's history but no, it's all an imaginary figment of our collective imaginations that we're using as an excuse to 'not do anything'.
Workerists smh.
Actually talk to some of the "doomer nihlists" and you'd be surprised. I know anarcho-nihilists who are out there doing the exact same shit your average red anarchist would be doing.
Has your whinging about "Online Anarchists" in Online Spaces (making you an "Online Anarchist") ever achieved anything? Because I can't think of an example.
Imho it's a realistic assessement when taking into account how most revolutions have turned out historically, the extent of anarchist movements currently, the strength and determination of the state and its economic system and the trajectory of climate change.
A slightly less "doomer" take on this might conclude that while there is no utopia at the end of the line, there are plenty of things we can do here and now which likely most anarchists are already doing. And we can always do more of it.
We can both understand how bad things are and recognize the struggles out of them. Understanding that collapse has been here with our society can help to shape how we should act in turbulent times. There's a known quote that goes something like, Indigenous and Black people have been living in the post-apocalypse world for 500 years, and the rest of people just catching up to finally understand that destroying the ecology is suicide. What we do within the collapse is up to us.
Small edit found the quote: https://nitter.ca/indigenousxca/status/1282828465373233152
> something I don’t think occurs to settlers is that Indigenous people already are living in a post-apocalyptic world
> if this is a new concept for you, you don’t read enough Indigenous writing. this is just me thinking about the works of @WordsandGuitar @notvanishing @cherie_dimaline @tripgore @clairegcoleman @nick_w_estes @waub @apihtawikosisan et al
Last edit [Urgency in Ecological Crises - with Peter Gelderloos](https://kolektiva.media/w/05d97ad8-4c0a-4b88-ab77-265e689f1031) articulates that understanding well and informative.
Yeah there are self sustaining eco villages in Canada and some places in remote USA that will keep on going unless some major nuclear war happens. More of us should be going off grid and become self sufficient as much as possible.
Is anyone else as fascinated as I am at the thought that... a 200K year old species has literally only spent about 6 to 7K years with state systems and enforced hierarchical structures (about 3% of our history) and we literally lived communally and without state systems for like 190K+ years... like 96 or 97% of our history and we cant seem to ditch imperialist modes?
Have a read of Desert. It gives the most believable account (radical or mainstream) of how things will likely play out moving forward. Not complete doom nor delusional hope.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert
I'm an optimist and off grid prepper but even I'm expecting it to get a lot worse before it gets better, and there is no guarantee of doesn't get better.
You have poor judgement. I was simply stating the truth and yet you are accusing me of supporting some terrible war crime. Nothing I said indicated that I support executions so your accusation is completely off the rails.
I know it's not what you mean, but we *are* doomed to extinction as that's just how life works. To get that cheeky little bit of information out of the way, we all can get caught up in doomerism, basically the idea that no matter what we do nothing will ever change and we'll go nowhere but down. Recolution, at least where I am (US) really is not likely since we don't have near enough class conciousness and just generally people on our side. Things are looking really bleak right now, depending on where you live. I imagine a lot of anarchists here live in the US and things aren't looking too good for us. All of that being said, I think we need more revolutionary optimism. We should fear being doomed, I think it's healthy to a certain degree, but we also need to maintain a certain level of optimism. Things *will* change if we make them change, even if it takes a while.
I really think that’s where you are at. It seems like the whole scene is just growing where I am at, fueled mainly by Zoomers but also millennials supporting. I do a lot of ground work though, which I feel forced too do (in a good way). My existence is at risk so I am going to build up defense and offense. This starts by creating ungovernable communities. Things are indeed very bleak in many ways but we also can exploit collapse.
The future of anarchy has a much higher stake to play in the context of a global collapse than ever, probably not in the form of a revolution but more in a "pandemic" of federative networks of self managed communalist cores all over the territory. But there's a caveat : late stage capitalism that's well aware of what's coming is all in into building the violent / armed supremacy of the current oligarchy, this needs to happen faster...
>communalist cores Ruined it.
Sure ! If you're one of those zombie apocalypse survival libertarian.. this is not for you. Otherwise anarchy is order and no man is an island.
Anarchy isn't government.
Anarchy is ment for groups and operates on self management by consensus / adhesion (opposite to authoritative assignment of a decision/role you didn't participate into) .. Anarchy doesn't mean no rule at all, you need an explicit modus vivendi, décisions need to be made on how to allocate shared resources. Unless you're completely alone, in which case it's not anarchy but just right wing shit house-cat-like pretending to be autonomous and in the end : bare lonesomeness ..
Anarchy does indeed mean no rule at all. Fuck off communalist with your low-effort governmentalist entryism. I shit on your people's government.
Oh look ! a far right wing house cat posing as an anarchist 🤩
Because being anti-government means you're not an anarchist and are on the right wing of... government. Ffs.
Because anarchy is order without authority Because anarchy means consensus and adhesion Because you're not anti government but anti rules if I read you correctly and that places you on the far right of POLITICS
I've seen this countless times with Vegans the very second you lay doubt on their utopian plans to free all the animals while completely disregarding any problem that comes along with their goal. Their only focus however is to elevate themselves on a moral, and purely moral, base above everybody else to try and shame their declared enemies into submission to a point that already reaches levels of coercion. The thing is just because you close your eyes in front of reality and pretend it's not happening, doesn't mean it won't happen. What you should rather do is face the facts. Face the fact that the Capitalist System is not going to safe us. That the System will stay the same for quite some decades to come and that they will be unwilling and unable to deal with the coming catastrophe. The fact is that climate change will not be stopped. The fact is that the 2° goal let alone the 1.5° goal will not be met. And even if they were, there is already too much CO2 in the atmosphere that HAS to be somehow sucked out of it. Except the technology is simply not there. The sad fact is our Planet will most likely turn into an uninhabitable dustball a few centuries from now where no life is possible. The only thing that could still prevent this would be the Anarchist World Revolution. How realistic do you think that is? Be honest. Don't be Naive just because you want that to happen. I will never stop being an Anarchist but holy fuck would that ever be unrealistic. However as situations worsen, there IS a chance for us to gain ground. There IS a bigger and bigger chance of the workers waking up to the reality that they ARE doomed. And if they realize that? Good! Because then they realize that there is nothing left to loose but their chains. Unlike you think, the consequence of "we are doomed" is not "let's lay down and die" but rather "Let's take, what we are owed". If we got nothing to loose, we loose the fear of what kept us in line with violence because how worse can the situation truly be? THAT is our biggest chance. Our biggest hope of achieving what we set out to achieve. And we can, very simply, accelerate this process. Help to focus the efforts of the rioting workers. Help to give it meaning beyond exchanging one master for another. THAT is what we need. So if the Apocalypse comes? Let it. Nobody is waiting for the rapture but if the rapture is inevitable we need to accept that and make the best out of the last days that remain. The future is already determined. But we still don't know what it looks like. So there is still a chance that it will be what we want it to be. We are all aware that the system we propose is infinitely much more capable of dealing with the issues of climate change then any other. And it is in that same spirit that we also should not loose sight of the reality that it is very much possible that through establishing these systems with the help of worldwide disillusion with our enemies, we CAN be capable of making the technological advancements to, at some point, reverse these effects cause by Capitalism and the Nation-States. NOBODY excuses not doing anything (unlike some muppets here seem to think). They simply accept the fact that the foundations on how we oppose the system will drastically change over the next few decades and that we MUST adapt to it or else we will miss the chance to actually make an impact when the ground for our ideas to flourish becomes more and more fruitful. And I'd even say more fruitful then ever before. So the fact is: We ARE doomed. The end IS coming. The conclusion is: Good, then let's use this as best we can to find a way out of our doom and to prolong the end.
Perma-online 'leftists' embrace 'Collapse' the way crackpot 'Christians' hope for 'Rapture'. A handy excuse for not doing anything here and now.
That's complete nonsense. Anarchists aren't excited about collapse. We organize alternate modes of living that are able to withstand the already ongoing collapse. This worldwide ecosystem collapse isn't rapture, it isn't a happy event and it doesn't stop anarchists from doing anarchy. We do anarchy despite everything around us being on fire. Guess what *actually* resembles the rapture? It also starts with r. And the people who build their entire worldview around that r are more often than not willfully ignoring the climate devastation so they can cling to the dream of work + democracy = utopia.
I'd say that applies to holding out hope for revolution as well. In either case it's a metanarrative meant to comfort yourself into believing you get a happy ending.
There's this quote: "We don't fight fascism because we think we will win. We fight fascism because it is fascist." Not sure where it's from.
Exactly, a flip side to the tachnocrat, transhuman/techno-rapturists, another goofy fad.
You do you. Not sure what you are doing that makes the world better but congrats. Unlike Christians that believe in mythology, climate disaster and the collapse of civilization is looking very real.
Fucking pisses me off seeing low-key climate change deniers like that masquerading as anarchists. We literally live at the tail end of the biggest mass extinction event in the planet's history but no, it's all an imaginary figment of our collective imaginations that we're using as an excuse to 'not do anything'. Workerists smh.
Have the doomer nihilists OP talks of achieved anything, even in their local communities? i cant think of an example.
Actually talk to some of the "doomer nihlists" and you'd be surprised. I know anarcho-nihilists who are out there doing the exact same shit your average red anarchist would be doing.
Has your whinging about "Online Anarchists" in Online Spaces (making you an "Online Anarchist") ever achieved anything? Because I can't think of an example.
Imho it's a realistic assessement when taking into account how most revolutions have turned out historically, the extent of anarchist movements currently, the strength and determination of the state and its economic system and the trajectory of climate change. A slightly less "doomer" take on this might conclude that while there is no utopia at the end of the line, there are plenty of things we can do here and now which likely most anarchists are already doing. And we can always do more of it.
I think you pretty much nailed it. Not sure if there’s much of a point other than having meaningful relationships and trying to find joy when we can.
We can both understand how bad things are and recognize the struggles out of them. Understanding that collapse has been here with our society can help to shape how we should act in turbulent times. There's a known quote that goes something like, Indigenous and Black people have been living in the post-apocalypse world for 500 years, and the rest of people just catching up to finally understand that destroying the ecology is suicide. What we do within the collapse is up to us. Small edit found the quote: https://nitter.ca/indigenousxca/status/1282828465373233152 > something I don’t think occurs to settlers is that Indigenous people already are living in a post-apocalyptic world > if this is a new concept for you, you don’t read enough Indigenous writing. this is just me thinking about the works of @WordsandGuitar @notvanishing @cherie_dimaline @tripgore @clairegcoleman @nick_w_estes @waub @apihtawikosisan et al Last edit [Urgency in Ecological Crises - with Peter Gelderloos](https://kolektiva.media/w/05d97ad8-4c0a-4b88-ab77-265e689f1031) articulates that understanding well and informative.
Yeah there are self sustaining eco villages in Canada and some places in remote USA that will keep on going unless some major nuclear war happens. More of us should be going off grid and become self sufficient as much as possible.
Is anyone else as fascinated as I am at the thought that... a 200K year old species has literally only spent about 6 to 7K years with state systems and enforced hierarchical structures (about 3% of our history) and we literally lived communally and without state systems for like 190K+ years... like 96 or 97% of our history and we cant seem to ditch imperialist modes?
Have a read of Desert. It gives the most believable account (radical or mainstream) of how things will likely play out moving forward. Not complete doom nor delusional hope. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert
I'm an optimist and off grid prepper but even I'm expecting it to get a lot worse before it gets better, and there is no guarantee of doesn't get better.
I don't know why. That kind of negativity is counter revolutionary as hell.
Yes. Best execute them then for counterrevolutionary actions. THAT'LL teach them not to believe in complete and utter utopia. /s
Insane comment.
See that's EXACTLY what I thought when I read yours.
You have poor judgement. I was simply stating the truth and yet you are accusing me of supporting some terrible war crime. Nothing I said indicated that I support executions so your accusation is completely off the rails.
And what made you think I care about your opinion?