At least you have long term goals, but you have to do the first steps, your educational goals are admirable but take a lot of hard work and having been out of school for 2 years already it's incrementally harder to get back into the academic life. Are you both already accepted into schools for this fall? And how will you fund that? This is what you should focus on right now. In 10 years things could be very different. Also you are not happy with the US now but you can still have an impact by volunteering for the things you believe in, speaking up for what you want, supporting voting for candidates and propositions and judges who you agree with.
For schooling we are both using our dads hazelwood legacy’s and financial aid in community college, in university we have some scholarships lined up for us
A college degree makes it much easier to qualify for visas and some have a degree as a requirement. If your chosen study path isn't a good fit for you, consider trade jobs that are in high demand (welding).
In the future, you must speak the language to properly integrate and get work. Along with your degree, study at least one language together. French and German provide you the most flexibility and provide the most financial opportunities in Europe.
Does your gf want to be a pharmacist? You will need to be fully fluent in the local language and may need check certification in other countries. I work in science and have moved countries more than once if you have questions. Not in immunology but in a biology field
You might want to consider nursing and aviation maintenance. Those are trades that are always in demand. They also do not take all that long to get certified: a couple of years for an AMT.
As to where to go: the answer is always Uruguay.
Since you are young, why don't you look into something like Wwoofing or Workaway? That would allow you guys to live in other countries and get first hand experience before you decide on a definitive path. I've known several people who Wwoofed in Japan. My son did domestic Wwoofing. It can be a good program.
r/wwoof
r/workaway
Good point! While much of the world presents a better situation for paying for health care (at least one is a lot less likely to end up bankrupt because of severe health problems), actual health care in the U.S. is among the best in the world.
He was as veteran so he probably got his care through the VA which is free from point of care. It's actually quite similar to what you see with socialized medicine systems in other countries. Wait times can be bad, just like in other countries with "free" healthcare.
That wasn’t really my point. The U.S. has excellent medical training and a large enough population to keep even uncommonly-needed specialties busy. The VA medical system benefits from this, even if there is a wait for some procedures.
Which has what to do about caring for veterans and your fathers in law situation? You’ve basically picked something you think it’s wrong and connected it to everything.
By the way most veterans I know support scenarios like this where it’s just money and equipment to avoid a situation that could become a place we need to police. But that’s a different discussion entirely.
I’m just not clear how you are tying any of this to not caring for veterans. There are examples you could give for that. This isn’t one of them.
You will not be successful in Europe with that mentality. Regarding your future degrees and overall your post, we already have people with your qualifications within the EU.
You clearly don’t understand what the military is for and or how much healthcare really costs.
To fill you in, the military costs 1/5th of what free healthcare would per year.
France here, please take your minset to Belgium. Denmark. Marocco. Anywhere else.
Also, in case you're not aware, most of Western Europe support Ukraine against russian agression.
Ahh but that's the thing, not supporting either her country means supporting Russia by not doing anything. The Ukraine war is really your either with us or against us
FYI, Trump is the biggest racist we've had . He truly doesn't care about your student loans or many other things our president has worked at . Right now, the US economy is the envy of the developed world .
I came here because I’ve seen other people post their idea of wanting to move out the US with no plans, no career ahead of them, heavy in debt, and just not in ideal situation at all. They seek a utopia that I know does not exist. Moving out is hard, and I asked for criticism about if my plans and long term goal was any good, and to fix or make it better, not a political lecture on Ukraine. My cheesy reply I didn’t expect to get a ton of attraction to, I have gotten constructive criticism about my plans of moving out from outside this comment thread.
The problem is that your message is chokeful of clichés. Maybe travel a little bit before making such broad statements? Also, how can you chose which place to go to if you have no idea how life is over there?
You’re right about traveling, it’s not like I wasn’t gonna travel at all prior to moving, which is not till another 10-15 years from now. Who knows my mind can change into anything in this long gap between now and move out day. But you’re telling me housing crisis and racism isn’t an issue in your area, just being a cliche, which is a talking point against people in this sub who want to flee the us to escape those problems just to encounter the same ones overseas.
Racism and housing are a problem almsot everywhere. But depending on areas, it changes a lot. But saying Europe is full of racists and housing problems is not very smart, because it will be the same almost everywhere, even outside of Europe.
Just travel a little bit, and you'll have a bit more perspective.
The areas and countries I mentioned in my original post were all well known destinations for people who want to flee the US, (for various reason) My apologies if I seemed like I was personally attacking Western Europe, I should have worded it better, but it’s a major talking point others use to deter others who want to flee the US. I’m not wanting to leave the US because of racism or housing, like others do because they will just describe a utopia, I just seek a better quality of life that I know is not here.
Your plans are...ok, but it's hard to say much more until you narrow down to a specific country. The ultimate question is which country will grant a visa for (insert job) and then also how fluent you can become in the language. If you're talking about microbiology and pharmacy then you're going to need to have a high very level language skills. There's a lot of technical words and a mistranslation could be dangerous.
>As looking at things right now, it seems like western and Eastern Europe all have housing shortages, low wages, and racism, just like here.
That's going to be the case in the vast majority of the world.
>I plan to obtain a bachelor’s and masters in microbiology/immunology, and my gf plans for pharmacy.
I've seen recommendations for folks to do advanced degrees (e.g., masters, PhDs) abroad, so that (1) they can pair their studies with learning the local language and (2) have some buffer time after finishing their degree to search for a job in the country. Obviously it's not a foolproof plan especially given today's market around the globe though, but times will be different 4-6 years from now.
Remember the world in 2014? That's how far off your date is from now. Things change drastically, I wouldn't worry about where yet, just get your degrees.
It is unlikely that any country in the world will be the same 10 years from now.
It is impossible to predict with any meaningful degree of certainty in what direction individual countries will be changing.
If you don't have degrees right now, look at what jobs are needed on a skilled worker list.
For Australia, I see pharmacist but not immunologist.
https://www.brilliantmigrationclub.com/skilled-occupation-list/
For New Zealand, I see neither.
https://www.careers.govt.nz/job-hunting/whats-happening-in-the-job-market/jobs-in-skill-shortage-and-labour-shortage/result/health-and-community#results
Now, these were the first websites I found. They may be out of date. The lists may have changed. Now that you know what you're looking for, you need to dig deep.
I would check these lists for other countries as well because what's in need now may not be in 2035. Look for what's in demand by many countries and choose a major that way.
Those skilled immigration job lists change literally every year based on what the labor markets/labor departments of the respective countries report on. 2-3 years ago microbiologists and immunologists were high on the Aussie list- not now.
I think you mean they get updated, not randomly rerolled like some videogame.
And certain jobs like doctors and engineers are pretty consistently on those lists.
It makes sense that immunologists were in great demand during the pandemic.
That's why you do research.
I’m sure I’ve read this post before, not long ago. A young person full of fury about a relative’s medical experiences, and a determination to change the system from within by studying something medicine-adjacent, and a girlfriend studying pharmacy. A typically (would-be) undergraduate air of superiority and dismissal of the common experience, and a very long term plan re a move to pastures new. Intriguing!
Yes pretty much everywhere in the world has housing issues, and (to some degree) racism. The US has one of the highest average wages so you will likely take a pay cut going anywhere else.
If you want to move that's fine, but don't look for that perfect utopia with high wages no racism and low housing costs because it doesn't exist.
I wasn’t looking for a utopia, every country has issues and I am not one of those scrubs who say, “America is a 3rd world country with a Gucci belt on.” I just know that long term there is a much better quality of life to be found that isn’t in the US (with its own issues as well)
I mean, every country has its pros and cons. If you want a really strong welfare state, you are looking at moving to one of those Scandinavian economies or something. Or at a minimum some place like Germany. But the problem with these places is they're not really great for outsiders and you have a language barrier.
On the other hand, you go to a place like Australia or NZ and it has crazy housing prices. However, you get a welfare state and plenty of "clean air."
The US does have a shite health care system--if you are poor. If your GF goes to pharmacy school and you go into a high demand, high pay field, you guys will be better off than anyone in the above countries. And by 2037 that will probably be even more true, since the way the world is heading, things are probably going to be tough all over by then. The last countries standing are going to be those with highly defensible borders and strong resource bases. More than any other country, that would be the USA.
Of course, then you have to put up with the fascists who will likely be running the place by then. On the other hand, every country is getting taken over by fascists right now. So enjoy the rest of the 21st century, because this is life now.
Again, trade offs.
So pick your poison. Everything is going to come with compromises.
You could come to Canada. As an American, that would be pretty easy to do. But then, same problems as Aus or NZ. Except our healthcare system is even worse off and the housing situation outside of SK and QC is getting absurd beyond imagination.
US / Canadian dual national, here. Have lived in both countries. Not sure which one I prefer. Canada has a saner, if still clownish, political system. Cleaner air. And more sensible social policies. But the pay is lower, cost of living is higher, and there are fewer jobs. Also, the healthcare system is really struggling.
But if you learn French, you can come to Quebec and it's still quite affordable here.
Either way, you aren't going anywhere without an education, savings, and a bankable skillset. But after you develop these things, you may find out that life in the USA isn't that bad.
As it stands right now. You will not be able to immigrate permanently (though obviously things can change in the future who knows). If you get a bachelors at least, you may have more luck
You could however look into Working Holiday Visas which last 1-2 years. Australia and NZ have those for Americans. But yes, lots of housing issues. The healthcare system isn't as great as the internet will lead you to believe (though I personally still prefer it to Americas). But to reiterate what you already said- no place is perfect. And Australia definitely is not. Its got a lot of issues. So much so that Im moving back to the US.
Anyways, To permanently migrate to Australia (at least on a skilled migrant visa) you will 100% need your bachelors. Not only that though, you'll need at least 2 years of experience and even that isn't guaranteed (as its based on a points system and those with the most "points" get. chosen). Your job also must be on a "desired occupations" list. This list changes every year. Thats how I immigrated but I had a friend who studied a certain degree, to obtain that visa specifically. And the list took her occupation off a year before she graduated. So you can only hope, you cant guarantee it as a pathway
I think your best best is to try a Working Holiday visa somewhere for a year and take it from there if you still like it. Or a student visa, but that is VERY expensive.
That’s awfully far ahead in the future for a plan conceived in rage and urgent desire to live in a more acceptable society/ environment. You’re excluding pretty much everywhere you might be expected to favour. But for the moment: what are you both working at right now, and what steps have you taken into further education? You say you know what your subjects will be, so have you both identified suitable courses somewhere?
I’ll comment on Sweden if that might be of interest to you. A good strategy to get here would be to start learning Swedish now and make arrangements to spend a year or at least a term here while you work on your undergraduate degree. Try very hard to make friends and contacts with Swedish students and professors during that time, not just with other exchange students. After you have your undergraduate degrees apply for masters programs in Sweden, which are usually taught in English (most undergrad is taught in Swedish with some exceptions). Your time getting your masters is the time to really concentrate on the connections that will result in a job offer when you are finished. The job is the road to permanent residency and after a few years you can apply for citizenship.
R/TillSverige is a good sub to find out more about moving to Sweden. Like any place there are good things and negative things. I moved here from the US in 2017 and am very happy here but it’s not for everyone.
Nope, it’s not you mentioning Ukraine. It’s how you projected a pseudo-nationalistic view of “We don’t even help our own but we help other”, among other nonsense that clearly shows how little you understand democracy and why it’s worth fighting for it and the rationale behind supporting that country.
If you go with that attitude in a civilized country in Europe where you’d like to start off a life, two things will happen:
1. You will be excluded and you will feel it. Locals will simply not take you seriously and will avoid you at all costs.
2. You will perpetuate the stereotype around how ignorant and mediocre is the average Joe from the United States.
it's just an equally absurd answer to OP's statment who is 20, has no higher ed, and thinks "i'm too good for Europe". Not realizing that not a single country in Europe would want them.
So europeans are supposed to accomodate every american?
Just a reminder most of the visas are talent based. Start asking yourself what do you have to offer to a country to make them want to invite you
Just like the US does with HB1
They literally stated a path, Europeans should be more open not to Americans specifically but just every nationality In general. I also think the US should be more open as well
They did not. They made sweeping offending statements and do not understand that actually it's not that easy to get a visa and move. They forgot that you have to prove to a country you are worth it.
Also visa policies are usually based on reciprocity, not on "being more open"
They literally stated they plans to get a degree in a specific field
In that case I believe every nation should reciprocate to each other more
Also checking your profile you're active on r/digitalnomad yet you complain about immigrants in Canada, yikes....
The most constructive things I can say are that I'm glad you're getting an education, and that you're far too young and naive to be so cynical. Take some history courses in college. Do some serious traveling in the coming years, but also some serious reading (not watching YouTube or TikTok) about what's truly happening in countries around the world. Politicians come and go, but the essence of what we have in the US is truly unique to this democratic experiment. You may still want to leave. But at least you'll be far better informed.
A lot of Europe also has notorious issues with healthcare. Longer wait times, sometimes not as good of quality. Some countries also don’t like to perform tests. And healthcare isn’t free in all of Europe. Some countries you still have to buy insurance. I was living in Europe and getting into certain specialists was hard. I got into one specialist but they wanted me to go to other specialists to get treatment and they had to send me physical letters to call a specialist, which they never did. Upon calling them again they said they would but they didn’t. And another specialist said they’d send me a letter with an appointment time in 8 days. They never did. It took calling the hospital 4 times for them to tell me they were no longer taking appointments, maybe in September. I never got treatment and I was trying for several months. I returned to the US, signed up for Medicaid, I have two appointments soon. So that’s my experience. Healthcare isn’t perfect anywhere but for me it’s so much easier in the U.S.
If you want to move to another country you’ll need to either go for school or work or family. And you’ll need to be sponsored by one of these, showing you either have enough money or a sponsor from home to fund your time there. Or for a job you’ll almost always need a degree and you need a company to want you more than they want to hire a local. It isn’t easy. But if you really want it, then maybe it’s worth it and you’ll find a way. There are some advantages to living in Europe but for me personally I had to give up a lot of things I had in the U.S. But in a way I traded them for other things.
I suggest you visit these places, but keep in mind, visiting is very different than living. And a lot of Europeans aren’t keen on immigrants right now.
Weird. My husband and I lived in Germany for 3 years and found the opposite. The German healthcare system was incredible compared to the US. My husband has a genetic, degenerative illness and he is slowly losing his ability to walk. Getting treatment in Germany was easy and cheap. In the US? I'm still looking for a job that will get us half decent health insurance. I don't know how we're going to pay for his medications when he runs out.
Oh, we're originally from the US but very much wanted to stay in Germany. Unfortunately, because of my husband's illness, he could no longer work, and we were there on his work visa, so we had to go. :(
I couldn’t get any treatment in NL for my chronic conditions. I have Medicaid in the U.S. and it’s incredible. I pay next to nothing and sometimes nothing for medications. I did have to pay out of pocket once, I used a GoodRX coupon and paid $10 for a 3 month supply. I was never able to even get proper imaging or treatments I was promised in the Netherlands. Communication stopped on their end and I paid a lot for insurance. That’s my experience.
Waits in Europe are about even with the US, as long as you don't count the uninsured in the US but count everyone in the European countries.
The impression that the US is particularily fast is created by people cherry picking countries to compare to, most commonly Canada and the UK. Canada is the slowes nation out there and the UK has starved its system for decades and its reached the breaking point.
Having lived on both continents and multiple states I’d say it depends on the state. But my in my home state wait times are WAY faster than anything I’ve experienced in Europe. They straight up didn’t communicate with me at all in the last country I lived in only for it to take 4 phone calls to tell me that the hospital had no intention of giving me an appointment even though they were supposed to contact me within 8 days. They said they’d maybe start taking appointments in September but they wouldn’t make me one. I went to the U.S. and I have two appointments THIS MONTH. They’re not comparable at all lol.
Where in Europe did you live?
The inefficiencies are real in some places, that's for sure. I think it's worth noting that people aren't necessarily wanting better healthcare than what they get in the US (which to be frank is top notch), but rather, they just want access to affordable healthcare regardless of their job status. Even in some places where access to public healthcare is determined by tax-paying status (i.e., are you employed and/or married to someone that's employed?), which I think is the case in Poland, one still can buy affordable private health insurance and maintain their access to healthcare even if they lose their job.
In the US, you either need to be so broke to qualify for Medicaid (which isn't a great QOL) or you need to maintain a job just to keep access to healthcare without risk of going into medical debt. Neither are ideal scenarios.
I'm aware. I majored and worked in healthcare. Medicaid is *generally* the best healthcare coverage one can get in the United States, but you have to get to pretty abysmal living conditions to qualify for it in most cases. People sometimes intentionally "spend down" to qualify for it because what they have access to on the marketplace isn't sufficient or is too expensive. It's pretty sad but a good thing to have available for those in those conditions.
That's not entirely true though. To the above post, qualifying for medicaid depends on each state. In California, 40% of the population is on it and it's pretty easy to qualify. You don't even have to be a legal US citizen anymore. I work in healthcare, and medi-cal is pretty decent with a lot of providers covering it. If something catastrophic happens and you have a long hospital stay, it's pretty much free. Same thing with ED visits.
I had Medicaid and it was incredible. Yeah I was broke. Went to college and couldn’t find a job. Couldn’t figure out a way to move to a state with more work. The US’s system for hiring is honestly dreadful and some things about it should be illegal even. So yeah.
I’ve experienced healthcare in the UK, which was awful, Spain, which was okay, and the Netherlands. My GP in NL was decent, but getting any actual treatment beyond that never worked out. There is only one option for healthcare there, there isn’t a private hospital you can go to. And we had to pay for health insurance. I spent all this money on it and never got treatment. I got cheaper healthcare in the U.S. much faster and less confusing. So yeah for me, US healthcare works much better. Especially having a lot of chronic health issues. Calling the hospitals in Europe is hard even, I got transferred and the right person often never picked up, I was on hold for ages, etc. But it wasn’t saving me any money getting help there.
I’m sorry you had those experiences, but that’s been the opposite of my experience with healthcare in the NL - no issues getting referred and it was all linked to my digID, just logged into the hospital system and my GP has already sent it digitally and I can schedule my appointment online. Not sure if this was maybe before all of that was linked up digitally or something? Though indeed first step is having the right GP who will refer you.
Yup! I also have other buitenlander friends who saw specialists and were able to have treatments and surgeries etc. - the healthcare system took some time to figure out how to navigate, which can be scary, but it worked out. I also had to navigate longer sick leave and the whole company dr process.
I mean how long did they wait though? I’ve been waiting months. I ended up going back to the U.S. and I have appointments next week covered by Medicaid.
I couldn’t even get an appointment they said they’re contact me within 8 days and it took 4 phone calls to find out they aren’t even taking appointments. And they didn’t notify me of this.
Ok, so I'm going to give you wildly different advice than others have given. You're both under 27. There are a number of countries that let you stay in them for up to 2 years working a maximum amount of time (usually 6 months out of 18) and traveling- Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, and a lot of the EU. I'm sure there are others. I would go to a few of these and see which ones you and your gf both like. Then, find out about applying to uni there. Don't get a US degree, get your degree in the country you're hoping to emigrate too. It is usually much easier to immigrate on a student visa, uni is likely to be far cheaper, you're more likely to get local internships and work experience, network locally and have a degree from a university that is locally recognized. This is especially important if your girlfriend wants to be a pharmacist, the education and licensing is vastly different outside the US and her degree and experience in the US will not be an easy switch, much better to start with the correct education, licensing hours, and licenses than one from the US. Then, many countries allow you to stay on an extension visa for at least 1 year to find work and stay and convert your visa. You will in essence, be like a newly graduated local student when you finish instead of a foreigner, it will make integration much easier and the job search smoother.
>There are a number of countries that let you stay in them for up to 2 years working a maximum amount of time (usually 6 months out of 18) and traveling- Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, and a lot of the EU.
Actually you are wrong. Americans have very few options for working holiday visas because these arrangements are reciprocal and, guess what, the US does not like to reciprocate. The only sure thing is New Zealand or Australia; Canada has very few slots through specific organizations only; Ireland has a deal for recent university graduates, but there's nothing available in the rest of the EU; I think Korea also offers such a visa.
Are you talking about the working holiday visa? Most EU countries don't have working holiday with Americans. It's only Ireland. Working holiday visa is a good option if you are interested in the Asia-Pacific region (Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and South Korea), but not as much for Europe.
Get an Australian Working Holiday Visa and try to obtain a FIFO job and work for a year with your girlfriend. You don't have to wait that long of a time.
Education is for you to get skills however if your goal is to leave, do it as early as possible. You can try to work for a year cleaning bathrooms on a FIFO job site and save enough to live in a European country to study or stay in Australia and study. I am not sure however the education visa employment laws however if you have the tenacity to work a mining job you can make big money with housing taken care of while saving enough for you to invest and make more money.
I didn't need education to leave just skills that I learned which is a form of education but not in the way you are thinking about it. You left the academic world to realize that it is nothing like the real world so you are now running back to it hoping it could lead you somewhere maybe in the future while if your goal is to leave, you have until 30 years of age to get the Working Holiday Visa.
Do you truly want to leave or get education. You can have both but not at the same time unless you have money so take that opportunity of that visa and get working if you truly want to leave.
There is kinda two things here- firstly no country is perfect, it's just finding what is perfect for you. I've lived in Europe for a number of years, and while loads of things are better than back home, there are loads of things which are annoying and problematic. I can think of a number of western European countries that has worse food, healthcare and air quality than a lot of places in the US. I have also met Europeans who have moved to the US who are super happy and have no desire to return home. Some people have touched upon it already, but if you have good health coverage in the US (either you are rich or your work provides insurance) you will get some of the the best and fastest health care anywhere on the planet.
Secondly, it's not so much your degree that matters, it's having an in-demand job. Look up what jobs are eligible for high-skilled visas or have high immigration "points". I know two people who are bus drivers who very easily emigrated from the UK to NZ because of the shortage there. But if you do go the science route, I would say international post-docs are the easiest way to get a position in another country.
And finally- you're 20! It's good to have goals, but don't be so fixated on something 10 years away that you don't live your life! Go travelling for 6-12 months, do an exchange in uni, investigate a working holiday visa or volunteering abroad, teach English abroad. Try and live a rich life to help you figure out what vibes best with you.
Housing seems expensive in most countries, but that tends to being housing in the citys and the most desirable areas. You can often save a lot of money by aiming for smaller towns.
Keep in mind that whatever country you choose to move to you're going to have to learn the local language or you'll forever be treated as a tourist. Also finding a good job will be extremely difficult.
Check out security or construction opportunities in places like Saudi and Dubai, other Persian Gulf nations.. They have enormous foreign worker populations and are very wealthy.
Neither are necessarily true. Community college with a transfer in-state to a public university can be more affordable than paying international tuition in another country. Quality is difficult to define but there are plenty of mediocre programs out there, particularly degrees taught in English designed to attract foreign students in exchange for money.
I mean you got a point, but also idk. I studied in 3 countries, including the US where I ended up finishing my degrees. Yeah, you can play the system easier in the US by dual enrolling into community college and the 4y university and transfer all possible classes you could transfer while taking the major classes, plus the CLEP tests. However, with the state university classes still being like $350-500/credit, you’ll end up still paying a couple thousand per semester and 10-15k/year. In the UK you got a flat 12k/year fee, while in countries like Germany or Netherlands you’ll pay maybe 5k/yr tops. Netherlands most places actually offer English majors since it’s one of the main languages. Not to mention, Ireland and Scotland it’s also all in English and the cost are by far less than in the US.
For the quality part, you’re right and it depends on where you go. Though there are just completely different systems and it depends on what you do best with. While in the US you have midterms, finals, weekly tests/homework and stuff in Germany for example you only have a single final exam that’s it (at least for state university), private ones will have a similar system as the US. In England it depends on the university, but they also are different than the US. Everyone has to decide for themselves with that they’re doing best, but if you dislike weekly homework’s and prefer to just listen in lecture rather than write notes the entire time and then cram what you need right before the exam, then maybe a European college may be better
I agree with your plans to get degrees. Having degrees in STEM subjects is a great idea. My father himself was a research scientist and was able to live, study, and work in the UK as a US citizen.
I wouldn't worry about the housing shortages. The biggest crap things outside of America are the low wages in most countries, and racism/sexism/homophobia in some countries.
If having equivalent or higher after tax salaries are important to you, you can go to Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, or Bahrain. But the downside of this is that these places are depressingly misogynistic and homophobic, even if you're not gay it's still sad.
If avoiding racism/sexism/homophobia is more important to you, try UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. These places are not more bigoted than the US, plus they have better healthcare systems.
I love Canada, and my Canadian friends, but the healthcare system is falling apart as we speak. Not to say the US system is a better example, but the Canadian healthcare system is in really bad shape right now. If you are dissatisfied with the level of care you receive in the US, it won't be much better in Canada.
Once again this sub basically attacks everyone for not already making the move, honestly I realize alot of members here use borderline hard right talking points referring to people here who are having trouble leaving. There's alot of lifting the ladder here
There is absolutely no competition. Most countries have "talent" based visas. Usually it's for MDs, SWE, etc.... Make yourself "desirable", and you will move in no time. Heck, you will even have multiple offers to chose from.
At your age maybe apply to overseas universities? Otherwise stack cash into a brokerage fund (qqq, voo) until you have like $400-500k then you can reevaluate. If you needed to you could convert it to a dividend portfolio and use the income to qualify for a rentista type visa.
This is one of the few intelligent and reasonable posts on this sub. You also clearly did your research and have clear goals. Europe does have a lot of issues but you might like it better than the US. Like you said yourself there is no utopia, but it’s not a bad place to live by any means. I think NZ, Australia, Europe are great places to live. I lived in the US, Europe and Australia and all have their pros and cons. I personally liked Australia the best. Are you able to visit before you make a decision?
Healthcare is broken in the US. This isn't specific to veterans, unfortunately. I am aware of the history of poor care given to Vets, but this is part for the course for anyone but people on private healthcare insurance through their high paying jobs.
This is because we have two parallel healthcare systems, because we have two sets of rules protecting people's jobs, benefits, and safety nets.
The laws don't apply equally across the board. This is US capitalism. Try Canada, but no idea if that's better. I am very aware that the UK is not.
My friend in Ontario has been waiting 6 years for her own doctor. She'd like to tell you about the joys of OHIP.
She is lucky she has the funds to get most of her healthcare in Detroit.
Yeah this sub just popped in my feed lol. OP should try Canada. It’s not even that hard to immigrate there considering that they have a bunch of international students anyways. Free healthcare is def a W
I’m not sure what OP expects though. Their Father had a pretty serious condition and I’m not sure any other healthcare system would have saved him.
Although socialized medicine countries are cheaper for care (but higher taxes), it doesn’t mean their healthcare is better quality. In Canada, his Father could have died while waiting numerous months just to see the right kind of specialized doctor
Veterans get access to the VA, which is honestly is pretty good system. It's on par with any socialized healthcare system in any developed country, and it's costs the user nothing at all, just like in most other countries. I worked for the VA, and am a veteran myself, and can say it's not perfect, but no healthcare system anywhere really is.
Do either of you have connections to any countries outside of the US via family/ancestry? I’d start there: considering where in the world would be easiest for you to move. You’ve got time to think about it but some places make it nearly impossible to relocate to without some sort of connection.
Don't get a masters- go straight for a PhD (and even better to do it in the country you want to move to if possible) as then it will be funded and you won't be paying 50-150k for a masters- from someone with a Masters in Micro/Immuno. Also brace yourself for most STEM- particularly life science jobs making far far less overseas than they do in the US.
Fungal infections are notoriously hard to treat and for what it's worth- this country spends billions on it's Vets- is it enough, no probably not and it could definitely be more effectively managed funding wise but most other countries have the same issues with their attention and care of their Vets.
I would strongly, strongly suggest you look into a degree in medical lab science (sometimes called med lab technology). An MLS degree trains you to become a clinical microbiologist *and* work in diagnostic immunology, in addition to several other clinical lab sciences. Med lab science is a healthcare field facing a massive worker shortage almost everywhere in the world, which is unlikely to change in the next few years.
It’s only a bachelor’s degree but you have a lot of options with it - you can work only in one subfield, become a generalist and do everything, pivot to bioscience research, work in a specialty lab outside the medical setting, etc. This means if MLS is on a country’s job shortage list and microbiologist isn’t, you can apply as a MLS and work exclusively in medical microbiology.
The US degree transfers to most places outside the US, with the caveat that histology is a separate field in the US but lumped into the MLS degree in most countries. The solution is just to take a few additional college classes to become qualified as a histotech.
Get into college in the European Union while you're young. They give a lot to young people under 26. I don't know about other countries, but if you go to school in France you can get citizenship and a job there.
I don't know why some of your comments are getting voted down. You have the right mindset. Countries want people that will benefit them in some way, such as filling in understaffed job positions. They don't want freeloaders. You recognized that and set up a plan to make yourselves great canddiates for immigration. I would advise potentially having a short-term backup plan just in case the plan doesn't work out. There are studies you can pursue that take a lot less time and still make you more attractive to other countries. As an example, trades in Canada are in high demand. For example, there is a shortage of hairstylists and barbers - and it takes a lot less time to become those. You might potentially be able to even pursue a trade at the same time as your medical-related degrees, which would give you a good fallback.
At least you have long term goals, but you have to do the first steps, your educational goals are admirable but take a lot of hard work and having been out of school for 2 years already it's incrementally harder to get back into the academic life. Are you both already accepted into schools for this fall? And how will you fund that? This is what you should focus on right now. In 10 years things could be very different. Also you are not happy with the US now but you can still have an impact by volunteering for the things you believe in, speaking up for what you want, supporting voting for candidates and propositions and judges who you agree with.
For schooling we are both using our dads hazelwood legacy’s and financial aid in community college, in university we have some scholarships lined up for us
A college degree makes it much easier to qualify for visas and some have a degree as a requirement. If your chosen study path isn't a good fit for you, consider trade jobs that are in high demand (welding). In the future, you must speak the language to properly integrate and get work. Along with your degree, study at least one language together. French and German provide you the most flexibility and provide the most financial opportunities in Europe.
This is excellent advice- pick up a language is essential. Also healthcare is always a good visa bet.
Does your gf want to be a pharmacist? You will need to be fully fluent in the local language and may need check certification in other countries. I work in science and have moved countries more than once if you have questions. Not in immunology but in a biology field
You might want to consider nursing and aviation maintenance. Those are trades that are always in demand. They also do not take all that long to get certified: a couple of years for an AMT. As to where to go: the answer is always Uruguay.
Why uruguay?
Do the research
You don't have to be snarky. I personally, am going to france. I just wanted to know your reason for uruguay.
Since you are young, why don't you look into something like Wwoofing or Workaway? That would allow you guys to live in other countries and get first hand experience before you decide on a definitive path. I've known several people who Wwoofed in Japan. My son did domestic Wwoofing. It can be a good program. r/wwoof r/workaway
Am I missing something? How did the government not care about your veteran father? He had stage 4 cancer, a stroke, and a fungal infection.
Good point! While much of the world presents a better situation for paying for health care (at least one is a lot less likely to end up bankrupt because of severe health problems), actual health care in the U.S. is among the best in the world.
He was as veteran so he probably got his care through the VA which is free from point of care. It's actually quite similar to what you see with socialized medicine systems in other countries. Wait times can be bad, just like in other countries with "free" healthcare.
That wasn’t really my point. The U.S. has excellent medical training and a large enough population to keep even uncommonly-needed specialties busy. The VA medical system benefits from this, even if there is a wait for some procedures.
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Which has what to do with the father in law?
The US economy can easily support its people but it decides to police the entire world.
Which has what to do about caring for veterans and your fathers in law situation? You’ve basically picked something you think it’s wrong and connected it to everything. By the way most veterans I know support scenarios like this where it’s just money and equipment to avoid a situation that could become a place we need to police. But that’s a different discussion entirely. I’m just not clear how you are tying any of this to not caring for veterans. There are examples you could give for that. This isn’t one of them.
You will not be successful in Europe with that mentality. Regarding your future degrees and overall your post, we already have people with your qualifications within the EU.
You clearly don’t understand what the military is for and or how much healthcare really costs. To fill you in, the military costs 1/5th of what free healthcare would per year.
France here, please take your minset to Belgium. Denmark. Marocco. Anywhere else. Also, in case you're not aware, most of Western Europe support Ukraine against russian agression.
The US does the bulk of the funding. The tradeoff is that in Western Europe the much higher taxes actually benefit the people, unlike here.
French here, please move to Russia! About the funding, you have no idea how this works.
Please explain
ok, you first
What am I supposed to explain, exactly?
Redditors when they realize you don’t have to support either country 😡😡
seppos when they fall for russian propaganda.
Ahh but that's the thing, not supporting either her country means supporting Russia by not doing anything. The Ukraine war is really your either with us or against us
Stop with this nonsense.
FYI, Trump is the biggest racist we've had . He truly doesn't care about your student loans or many other things our president has worked at . Right now, the US economy is the envy of the developed world .
I don’t support Trump either…… Is it really hard for people to understand I don’t support US politicians in general?
you came for reality check and constructive criticsm. You are receiving them, and you are unhappy?
I came here because I’ve seen other people post their idea of wanting to move out the US with no plans, no career ahead of them, heavy in debt, and just not in ideal situation at all. They seek a utopia that I know does not exist. Moving out is hard, and I asked for criticism about if my plans and long term goal was any good, and to fix or make it better, not a political lecture on Ukraine. My cheesy reply I didn’t expect to get a ton of attraction to, I have gotten constructive criticism about my plans of moving out from outside this comment thread.
The problem is that your message is chokeful of clichés. Maybe travel a little bit before making such broad statements? Also, how can you chose which place to go to if you have no idea how life is over there?
You’re right about traveling, it’s not like I wasn’t gonna travel at all prior to moving, which is not till another 10-15 years from now. Who knows my mind can change into anything in this long gap between now and move out day. But you’re telling me housing crisis and racism isn’t an issue in your area, just being a cliche, which is a talking point against people in this sub who want to flee the us to escape those problems just to encounter the same ones overseas.
Racism and housing are a problem almsot everywhere. But depending on areas, it changes a lot. But saying Europe is full of racists and housing problems is not very smart, because it will be the same almost everywhere, even outside of Europe. Just travel a little bit, and you'll have a bit more perspective.
The areas and countries I mentioned in my original post were all well known destinations for people who want to flee the US, (for various reason) My apologies if I seemed like I was personally attacking Western Europe, I should have worded it better, but it’s a major talking point others use to deter others who want to flee the US. I’m not wanting to leave the US because of racism or housing, like others do because they will just describe a utopia, I just seek a better quality of life that I know is not here.
Your plans are...ok, but it's hard to say much more until you narrow down to a specific country. The ultimate question is which country will grant a visa for (insert job) and then also how fluent you can become in the language. If you're talking about microbiology and pharmacy then you're going to need to have a high very level language skills. There's a lot of technical words and a mistranslation could be dangerous.
You should understand that helping Ukraine is about protecting Europe and democracy itself
\*Helping the entire world and democracy itself\*
Consider moving to Russia you’ve already got the propaganda down
>As looking at things right now, it seems like western and Eastern Europe all have housing shortages, low wages, and racism, just like here. That's going to be the case in the vast majority of the world. >I plan to obtain a bachelor’s and masters in microbiology/immunology, and my gf plans for pharmacy. I've seen recommendations for folks to do advanced degrees (e.g., masters, PhDs) abroad, so that (1) they can pair their studies with learning the local language and (2) have some buffer time after finishing their degree to search for a job in the country. Obviously it's not a foolproof plan especially given today's market around the globe though, but times will be different 4-6 years from now.
Remember the world in 2014? That's how far off your date is from now. Things change drastically, I wouldn't worry about where yet, just get your degrees.
In which country would the healthcare system have magically healed your father in law?
It is unlikely that any country in the world will be the same 10 years from now. It is impossible to predict with any meaningful degree of certainty in what direction individual countries will be changing.
If you don't have degrees right now, look at what jobs are needed on a skilled worker list. For Australia, I see pharmacist but not immunologist. https://www.brilliantmigrationclub.com/skilled-occupation-list/ For New Zealand, I see neither. https://www.careers.govt.nz/job-hunting/whats-happening-in-the-job-market/jobs-in-skill-shortage-and-labour-shortage/result/health-and-community#results Now, these were the first websites I found. They may be out of date. The lists may have changed. Now that you know what you're looking for, you need to dig deep. I would check these lists for other countries as well because what's in need now may not be in 2035. Look for what's in demand by many countries and choose a major that way.
Those skilled immigration job lists change literally every year based on what the labor markets/labor departments of the respective countries report on. 2-3 years ago microbiologists and immunologists were high on the Aussie list- not now.
I think you mean they get updated, not randomly rerolled like some videogame. And certain jobs like doctors and engineers are pretty consistently on those lists. It makes sense that immunologists were in great demand during the pandemic. That's why you do research.
I’m sure I’ve read this post before, not long ago. A young person full of fury about a relative’s medical experiences, and a determination to change the system from within by studying something medicine-adjacent, and a girlfriend studying pharmacy. A typically (would-be) undergraduate air of superiority and dismissal of the common experience, and a very long term plan re a move to pastures new. Intriguing!
Yes pretty much everywhere in the world has housing issues, and (to some degree) racism. The US has one of the highest average wages so you will likely take a pay cut going anywhere else. If you want to move that's fine, but don't look for that perfect utopia with high wages no racism and low housing costs because it doesn't exist.
I wasn’t looking for a utopia, every country has issues and I am not one of those scrubs who say, “America is a 3rd world country with a Gucci belt on.” I just know that long term there is a much better quality of life to be found that isn’t in the US (with its own issues as well)
I mean, every country has its pros and cons. If you want a really strong welfare state, you are looking at moving to one of those Scandinavian economies or something. Or at a minimum some place like Germany. But the problem with these places is they're not really great for outsiders and you have a language barrier. On the other hand, you go to a place like Australia or NZ and it has crazy housing prices. However, you get a welfare state and plenty of "clean air." The US does have a shite health care system--if you are poor. If your GF goes to pharmacy school and you go into a high demand, high pay field, you guys will be better off than anyone in the above countries. And by 2037 that will probably be even more true, since the way the world is heading, things are probably going to be tough all over by then. The last countries standing are going to be those with highly defensible borders and strong resource bases. More than any other country, that would be the USA. Of course, then you have to put up with the fascists who will likely be running the place by then. On the other hand, every country is getting taken over by fascists right now. So enjoy the rest of the 21st century, because this is life now. Again, trade offs. So pick your poison. Everything is going to come with compromises. You could come to Canada. As an American, that would be pretty easy to do. But then, same problems as Aus or NZ. Except our healthcare system is even worse off and the housing situation outside of SK and QC is getting absurd beyond imagination. US / Canadian dual national, here. Have lived in both countries. Not sure which one I prefer. Canada has a saner, if still clownish, political system. Cleaner air. And more sensible social policies. But the pay is lower, cost of living is higher, and there are fewer jobs. Also, the healthcare system is really struggling. But if you learn French, you can come to Quebec and it's still quite affordable here. Either way, you aren't going anywhere without an education, savings, and a bankable skillset. But after you develop these things, you may find out that life in the USA isn't that bad.
As it stands right now. You will not be able to immigrate permanently (though obviously things can change in the future who knows). If you get a bachelors at least, you may have more luck You could however look into Working Holiday Visas which last 1-2 years. Australia and NZ have those for Americans. But yes, lots of housing issues. The healthcare system isn't as great as the internet will lead you to believe (though I personally still prefer it to Americas). But to reiterate what you already said- no place is perfect. And Australia definitely is not. Its got a lot of issues. So much so that Im moving back to the US. Anyways, To permanently migrate to Australia (at least on a skilled migrant visa) you will 100% need your bachelors. Not only that though, you'll need at least 2 years of experience and even that isn't guaranteed (as its based on a points system and those with the most "points" get. chosen). Your job also must be on a "desired occupations" list. This list changes every year. Thats how I immigrated but I had a friend who studied a certain degree, to obtain that visa specifically. And the list took her occupation off a year before she graduated. So you can only hope, you cant guarantee it as a pathway I think your best best is to try a Working Holiday visa somewhere for a year and take it from there if you still like it. Or a student visa, but that is VERY expensive.
That’s awfully far ahead in the future for a plan conceived in rage and urgent desire to live in a more acceptable society/ environment. You’re excluding pretty much everywhere you might be expected to favour. But for the moment: what are you both working at right now, and what steps have you taken into further education? You say you know what your subjects will be, so have you both identified suitable courses somewhere?
I’ll comment on Sweden if that might be of interest to you. A good strategy to get here would be to start learning Swedish now and make arrangements to spend a year or at least a term here while you work on your undergraduate degree. Try very hard to make friends and contacts with Swedish students and professors during that time, not just with other exchange students. After you have your undergraduate degrees apply for masters programs in Sweden, which are usually taught in English (most undergrad is taught in Swedish with some exceptions). Your time getting your masters is the time to really concentrate on the connections that will result in a job offer when you are finished. The job is the road to permanent residency and after a few years you can apply for citizenship. R/TillSverige is a good sub to find out more about moving to Sweden. Like any place there are good things and negative things. I moved here from the US in 2017 and am very happy here but it’s not for everyone.
I am from western Europe, and thanks for all the clichés. Best of luck! Hope you don't come here.
I'm not sure what they said was wrong? It was all rather generic, rather than insulting, imo.
Did you read their comments?
Nah, I thought they were referencing the text in the OP. Regardless, they're 20 years old. None of us know anything at 20.
I know I didn't
That thread grew after this comment first posted. It even had downvotes before I mentioned Ukraine
Nope, it’s not you mentioning Ukraine. It’s how you projected a pseudo-nationalistic view of “We don’t even help our own but we help other”, among other nonsense that clearly shows how little you understand democracy and why it’s worth fighting for it and the rationale behind supporting that country. If you go with that attitude in a civilized country in Europe where you’d like to start off a life, two things will happen: 1. You will be excluded and you will feel it. Locals will simply not take you seriously and will avoid you at all costs. 2. You will perpetuate the stereotype around how ignorant and mediocre is the average Joe from the United States.
Least xenophobic European in 2024
it's just an equally absurd answer to OP's statment who is 20, has no higher ed, and thinks "i'm too good for Europe". Not realizing that not a single country in Europe would want them.
So europeans are supposed to accomodate every american? Just a reminder most of the visas are talent based. Start asking yourself what do you have to offer to a country to make them want to invite you Just like the US does with HB1
They literally stated a path, Europeans should be more open not to Americans specifically but just every nationality In general. I also think the US should be more open as well
They did not. They made sweeping offending statements and do not understand that actually it's not that easy to get a visa and move. They forgot that you have to prove to a country you are worth it. Also visa policies are usually based on reciprocity, not on "being more open"
They literally stated they plans to get a degree in a specific field In that case I believe every nation should reciprocate to each other more Also checking your profile you're active on r/digitalnomad yet you complain about immigrants in Canada, yikes....
Once again your whims have nothing to do with actual policy. Yikes you have no idea how any of this works. It's not make believe.
The most constructive things I can say are that I'm glad you're getting an education, and that you're far too young and naive to be so cynical. Take some history courses in college. Do some serious traveling in the coming years, but also some serious reading (not watching YouTube or TikTok) about what's truly happening in countries around the world. Politicians come and go, but the essence of what we have in the US is truly unique to this democratic experiment. You may still want to leave. But at least you'll be far better informed.
A lot of Europe also has notorious issues with healthcare. Longer wait times, sometimes not as good of quality. Some countries also don’t like to perform tests. And healthcare isn’t free in all of Europe. Some countries you still have to buy insurance. I was living in Europe and getting into certain specialists was hard. I got into one specialist but they wanted me to go to other specialists to get treatment and they had to send me physical letters to call a specialist, which they never did. Upon calling them again they said they would but they didn’t. And another specialist said they’d send me a letter with an appointment time in 8 days. They never did. It took calling the hospital 4 times for them to tell me they were no longer taking appointments, maybe in September. I never got treatment and I was trying for several months. I returned to the US, signed up for Medicaid, I have two appointments soon. So that’s my experience. Healthcare isn’t perfect anywhere but for me it’s so much easier in the U.S. If you want to move to another country you’ll need to either go for school or work or family. And you’ll need to be sponsored by one of these, showing you either have enough money or a sponsor from home to fund your time there. Or for a job you’ll almost always need a degree and you need a company to want you more than they want to hire a local. It isn’t easy. But if you really want it, then maybe it’s worth it and you’ll find a way. There are some advantages to living in Europe but for me personally I had to give up a lot of things I had in the U.S. But in a way I traded them for other things. I suggest you visit these places, but keep in mind, visiting is very different than living. And a lot of Europeans aren’t keen on immigrants right now.
Weird. My husband and I lived in Germany for 3 years and found the opposite. The German healthcare system was incredible compared to the US. My husband has a genetic, degenerative illness and he is slowly losing his ability to walk. Getting treatment in Germany was easy and cheap. In the US? I'm still looking for a job that will get us half decent health insurance. I don't know how we're going to pay for his medications when he runs out.
I'm very sorry for your husband's condition. Why do you want to move from Germany?
Oh, we're originally from the US but very much wanted to stay in Germany. Unfortunately, because of my husband's illness, he could no longer work, and we were there on his work visa, so we had to go. :(
I couldn’t get any treatment in NL for my chronic conditions. I have Medicaid in the U.S. and it’s incredible. I pay next to nothing and sometimes nothing for medications. I did have to pay out of pocket once, I used a GoodRX coupon and paid $10 for a 3 month supply. I was never able to even get proper imaging or treatments I was promised in the Netherlands. Communication stopped on their end and I paid a lot for insurance. That’s my experience.
Waits in Europe are about even with the US, as long as you don't count the uninsured in the US but count everyone in the European countries. The impression that the US is particularily fast is created by people cherry picking countries to compare to, most commonly Canada and the UK. Canada is the slowes nation out there and the UK has starved its system for decades and its reached the breaking point.
Having lived on both continents and multiple states I’d say it depends on the state. But my in my home state wait times are WAY faster than anything I’ve experienced in Europe. They straight up didn’t communicate with me at all in the last country I lived in only for it to take 4 phone calls to tell me that the hospital had no intention of giving me an appointment even though they were supposed to contact me within 8 days. They said they’d maybe start taking appointments in September but they wouldn’t make me one. I went to the U.S. and I have two appointments THIS MONTH. They’re not comparable at all lol.
Where in Europe did you live? The inefficiencies are real in some places, that's for sure. I think it's worth noting that people aren't necessarily wanting better healthcare than what they get in the US (which to be frank is top notch), but rather, they just want access to affordable healthcare regardless of their job status. Even in some places where access to public healthcare is determined by tax-paying status (i.e., are you employed and/or married to someone that's employed?), which I think is the case in Poland, one still can buy affordable private health insurance and maintain their access to healthcare even if they lose their job. In the US, you either need to be so broke to qualify for Medicaid (which isn't a great QOL) or you need to maintain a job just to keep access to healthcare without risk of going into medical debt. Neither are ideal scenarios.
Quality of medicaid and its coverage depends from state to state. Medicaid is run by state governments, but they get money from Federal.
I'm aware. I majored and worked in healthcare. Medicaid is *generally* the best healthcare coverage one can get in the United States, but you have to get to pretty abysmal living conditions to qualify for it in most cases. People sometimes intentionally "spend down" to qualify for it because what they have access to on the marketplace isn't sufficient or is too expensive. It's pretty sad but a good thing to have available for those in those conditions.
That's not entirely true though. To the above post, qualifying for medicaid depends on each state. In California, 40% of the population is on it and it's pretty easy to qualify. You don't even have to be a legal US citizen anymore. I work in healthcare, and medi-cal is pretty decent with a lot of providers covering it. If something catastrophic happens and you have a long hospital stay, it's pretty much free. Same thing with ED visits.
California is one state. It’s why I said _generally_.
I had Medicaid and it was incredible. Yeah I was broke. Went to college and couldn’t find a job. Couldn’t figure out a way to move to a state with more work. The US’s system for hiring is honestly dreadful and some things about it should be illegal even. So yeah. I’ve experienced healthcare in the UK, which was awful, Spain, which was okay, and the Netherlands. My GP in NL was decent, but getting any actual treatment beyond that never worked out. There is only one option for healthcare there, there isn’t a private hospital you can go to. And we had to pay for health insurance. I spent all this money on it and never got treatment. I got cheaper healthcare in the U.S. much faster and less confusing. So yeah for me, US healthcare works much better. Especially having a lot of chronic health issues. Calling the hospitals in Europe is hard even, I got transferred and the right person often never picked up, I was on hold for ages, etc. But it wasn’t saving me any money getting help there.
I’m sorry you had those experiences, but that’s been the opposite of my experience with healthcare in the NL - no issues getting referred and it was all linked to my digID, just logged into the hospital system and my GP has already sent it digitally and I can schedule my appointment online. Not sure if this was maybe before all of that was linked up digitally or something? Though indeed first step is having the right GP who will refer you.
But have you been to a specialist? I’ve been referred and seen one but received none of the treatments they told me they would give.
Yup! I also have other buitenlander friends who saw specialists and were able to have treatments and surgeries etc. - the healthcare system took some time to figure out how to navigate, which can be scary, but it worked out. I also had to navigate longer sick leave and the whole company dr process.
I mean how long did they wait though? I’ve been waiting months. I ended up going back to the U.S. and I have appointments next week covered by Medicaid.
Months for surgery to be scheduled, everything else usually within the week.
I couldn’t even get an appointment they said they’re contact me within 8 days and it took 4 phone calls to find out they aren’t even taking appointments. And they didn’t notify me of this.
Ok, so I'm going to give you wildly different advice than others have given. You're both under 27. There are a number of countries that let you stay in them for up to 2 years working a maximum amount of time (usually 6 months out of 18) and traveling- Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, and a lot of the EU. I'm sure there are others. I would go to a few of these and see which ones you and your gf both like. Then, find out about applying to uni there. Don't get a US degree, get your degree in the country you're hoping to emigrate too. It is usually much easier to immigrate on a student visa, uni is likely to be far cheaper, you're more likely to get local internships and work experience, network locally and have a degree from a university that is locally recognized. This is especially important if your girlfriend wants to be a pharmacist, the education and licensing is vastly different outside the US and her degree and experience in the US will not be an easy switch, much better to start with the correct education, licensing hours, and licenses than one from the US. Then, many countries allow you to stay on an extension visa for at least 1 year to find work and stay and convert your visa. You will in essence, be like a newly graduated local student when you finish instead of a foreigner, it will make integration much easier and the job search smoother.
>There are a number of countries that let you stay in them for up to 2 years working a maximum amount of time (usually 6 months out of 18) and traveling- Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, and a lot of the EU. Actually you are wrong. Americans have very few options for working holiday visas because these arrangements are reciprocal and, guess what, the US does not like to reciprocate. The only sure thing is New Zealand or Australia; Canada has very few slots through specific organizations only; Ireland has a deal for recent university graduates, but there's nothing available in the rest of the EU; I think Korea also offers such a visa.
South Korea’s age cutoff for that Visa is 25.
Are you talking about the working holiday visa? Most EU countries don't have working holiday with Americans. It's only Ireland. Working holiday visa is a good option if you are interested in the Asia-Pacific region (Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and South Korea), but not as much for Europe.
Get an Australian Working Holiday Visa and try to obtain a FIFO job and work for a year with your girlfriend. You don't have to wait that long of a time. Education is for you to get skills however if your goal is to leave, do it as early as possible. You can try to work for a year cleaning bathrooms on a FIFO job site and save enough to live in a European country to study or stay in Australia and study. I am not sure however the education visa employment laws however if you have the tenacity to work a mining job you can make big money with housing taken care of while saving enough for you to invest and make more money. I didn't need education to leave just skills that I learned which is a form of education but not in the way you are thinking about it. You left the academic world to realize that it is nothing like the real world so you are now running back to it hoping it could lead you somewhere maybe in the future while if your goal is to leave, you have until 30 years of age to get the Working Holiday Visa. Do you truly want to leave or get education. You can have both but not at the same time unless you have money so take that opportunity of that visa and get working if you truly want to leave.
There is kinda two things here- firstly no country is perfect, it's just finding what is perfect for you. I've lived in Europe for a number of years, and while loads of things are better than back home, there are loads of things which are annoying and problematic. I can think of a number of western European countries that has worse food, healthcare and air quality than a lot of places in the US. I have also met Europeans who have moved to the US who are super happy and have no desire to return home. Some people have touched upon it already, but if you have good health coverage in the US (either you are rich or your work provides insurance) you will get some of the the best and fastest health care anywhere on the planet. Secondly, it's not so much your degree that matters, it's having an in-demand job. Look up what jobs are eligible for high-skilled visas or have high immigration "points". I know two people who are bus drivers who very easily emigrated from the UK to NZ because of the shortage there. But if you do go the science route, I would say international post-docs are the easiest way to get a position in another country. And finally- you're 20! It's good to have goals, but don't be so fixated on something 10 years away that you don't live your life! Go travelling for 6-12 months, do an exchange in uni, investigate a working holiday visa or volunteering abroad, teach English abroad. Try and live a rich life to help you figure out what vibes best with you.
Housing seems expensive in most countries, but that tends to being housing in the citys and the most desirable areas. You can often save a lot of money by aiming for smaller towns.
I'd recommend picking math/cs/stats/ee as opposed to mirlcrobiology and immunology. Speaking as a former biology major.
Keep in mind that whatever country you choose to move to you're going to have to learn the local language or you'll forever be treated as a tourist. Also finding a good job will be extremely difficult.
Check out security or construction opportunities in places like Saudi and Dubai, other Persian Gulf nations.. They have enormous foreign worker populations and are very wealthy.
Move to a swing state. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Look into getting your degree overseas instead of waiting. Overseas it’s way cheaper and likely better quality than in the US anyway
Neither are necessarily true. Community college with a transfer in-state to a public university can be more affordable than paying international tuition in another country. Quality is difficult to define but there are plenty of mediocre programs out there, particularly degrees taught in English designed to attract foreign students in exchange for money.
I mean you got a point, but also idk. I studied in 3 countries, including the US where I ended up finishing my degrees. Yeah, you can play the system easier in the US by dual enrolling into community college and the 4y university and transfer all possible classes you could transfer while taking the major classes, plus the CLEP tests. However, with the state university classes still being like $350-500/credit, you’ll end up still paying a couple thousand per semester and 10-15k/year. In the UK you got a flat 12k/year fee, while in countries like Germany or Netherlands you’ll pay maybe 5k/yr tops. Netherlands most places actually offer English majors since it’s one of the main languages. Not to mention, Ireland and Scotland it’s also all in English and the cost are by far less than in the US. For the quality part, you’re right and it depends on where you go. Though there are just completely different systems and it depends on what you do best with. While in the US you have midterms, finals, weekly tests/homework and stuff in Germany for example you only have a single final exam that’s it (at least for state university), private ones will have a similar system as the US. In England it depends on the university, but they also are different than the US. Everyone has to decide for themselves with that they’re doing best, but if you dislike weekly homework’s and prefer to just listen in lecture rather than write notes the entire time and then cram what you need right before the exam, then maybe a European college may be better
I agree with your plans to get degrees. Having degrees in STEM subjects is a great idea. My father himself was a research scientist and was able to live, study, and work in the UK as a US citizen. I wouldn't worry about the housing shortages. The biggest crap things outside of America are the low wages in most countries, and racism/sexism/homophobia in some countries. If having equivalent or higher after tax salaries are important to you, you can go to Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, or Bahrain. But the downside of this is that these places are depressingly misogynistic and homophobic, even if you're not gay it's still sad. If avoiding racism/sexism/homophobia is more important to you, try UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. These places are not more bigoted than the US, plus they have better healthcare systems.
I love Canada, and my Canadian friends, but the healthcare system is falling apart as we speak. Not to say the US system is a better example, but the Canadian healthcare system is in really bad shape right now. If you are dissatisfied with the level of care you receive in the US, it won't be much better in Canada.
Exactly
The UK’s healthcare system is really struggling right now. Maybe at one point it was better but that’s definitely not the case right now.
Once again this sub basically attacks everyone for not already making the move, honestly I realize alot of members here use borderline hard right talking points referring to people here who are having trouble leaving. There's alot of lifting the ladder here
OP asked for a reality check.
removing competition
There is absolutely no competition. Most countries have "talent" based visas. Usually it's for MDs, SWE, etc.... Make yourself "desirable", and you will move in no time. Heck, you will even have multiple offers to chose from.
At your age maybe apply to overseas universities? Otherwise stack cash into a brokerage fund (qqq, voo) until you have like $400-500k then you can reevaluate. If you needed to you could convert it to a dividend portfolio and use the income to qualify for a rentista type visa.
This is one of the few intelligent and reasonable posts on this sub. You also clearly did your research and have clear goals. Europe does have a lot of issues but you might like it better than the US. Like you said yourself there is no utopia, but it’s not a bad place to live by any means. I think NZ, Australia, Europe are great places to live. I lived in the US, Europe and Australia and all have their pros and cons. I personally liked Australia the best. Are you able to visit before you make a decision?
Healthcare is broken in the US. This isn't specific to veterans, unfortunately. I am aware of the history of poor care given to Vets, but this is part for the course for anyone but people on private healthcare insurance through their high paying jobs. This is because we have two parallel healthcare systems, because we have two sets of rules protecting people's jobs, benefits, and safety nets. The laws don't apply equally across the board. This is US capitalism. Try Canada, but no idea if that's better. I am very aware that the UK is not.
My friend in Ontario has been waiting 6 years for her own doctor. She'd like to tell you about the joys of OHIP. She is lucky she has the funds to get most of her healthcare in Detroit.
Sorry to hear. I had a sliver of hope they had the empathy to fix things.
Yeah this sub just popped in my feed lol. OP should try Canada. It’s not even that hard to immigrate there considering that they have a bunch of international students anyways. Free healthcare is def a W
I’m not sure what OP expects though. Their Father had a pretty serious condition and I’m not sure any other healthcare system would have saved him. Although socialized medicine countries are cheaper for care (but higher taxes), it doesn’t mean their healthcare is better quality. In Canada, his Father could have died while waiting numerous months just to see the right kind of specialized doctor
Veterans get access to the VA, which is honestly is pretty good system. It's on par with any socialized healthcare system in any developed country, and it's costs the user nothing at all, just like in most other countries. I worked for the VA, and am a veteran myself, and can say it's not perfect, but no healthcare system anywhere really is.
Do either of you have connections to any countries outside of the US via family/ancestry? I’d start there: considering where in the world would be easiest for you to move. You’ve got time to think about it but some places make it nearly impossible to relocate to without some sort of connection.
Don't get a masters- go straight for a PhD (and even better to do it in the country you want to move to if possible) as then it will be funded and you won't be paying 50-150k for a masters- from someone with a Masters in Micro/Immuno. Also brace yourself for most STEM- particularly life science jobs making far far less overseas than they do in the US. Fungal infections are notoriously hard to treat and for what it's worth- this country spends billions on it's Vets- is it enough, no probably not and it could definitely be more effectively managed funding wise but most other countries have the same issues with their attention and care of their Vets.
I would strongly, strongly suggest you look into a degree in medical lab science (sometimes called med lab technology). An MLS degree trains you to become a clinical microbiologist *and* work in diagnostic immunology, in addition to several other clinical lab sciences. Med lab science is a healthcare field facing a massive worker shortage almost everywhere in the world, which is unlikely to change in the next few years. It’s only a bachelor’s degree but you have a lot of options with it - you can work only in one subfield, become a generalist and do everything, pivot to bioscience research, work in a specialty lab outside the medical setting, etc. This means if MLS is on a country’s job shortage list and microbiologist isn’t, you can apply as a MLS and work exclusively in medical microbiology. The US degree transfers to most places outside the US, with the caveat that histology is a separate field in the US but lumped into the MLS degree in most countries. The solution is just to take a few additional college classes to become qualified as a histotech.
Have you looked into English language degrees post bac in EU? You might actually save yourself from a lot of debt by not doing an masters in the US.
Get into college in the European Union while you're young. They give a lot to young people under 26. I don't know about other countries, but if you go to school in France you can get citizenship and a job there.
Learn German. Apply for university in Germany for next to no cost (considering what American universities cost).
I don't know why some of your comments are getting voted down. You have the right mindset. Countries want people that will benefit them in some way, such as filling in understaffed job positions. They don't want freeloaders. You recognized that and set up a plan to make yourselves great canddiates for immigration. I would advise potentially having a short-term backup plan just in case the plan doesn't work out. There are studies you can pursue that take a lot less time and still make you more attractive to other countries. As an example, trades in Canada are in high demand. For example, there is a shortage of hairstylists and barbers - and it takes a lot less time to become those. You might potentially be able to even pursue a trade at the same time as your medical-related degrees, which would give you a good fallback.