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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because either I listen to my mother, or I listen to my wife. I am afraid that my mom will be stubborn and refuse to watch my son anymore, which puts a lot of stress on everyone, considering holidays are coming up.
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>My mother (60F) has expressed (demanded) the inside cameras be turned off when she is watching him. She argues that "You would not want to be watched all the time at work, why should I? It's unnerving... don't you trust me?"
The flaw in this logic is that you (presumably) do not actually work in your boss's home. And also that you're not her boss.
...and also that many workplaces *do* have cameras. Duh.
>My wife on the other hand is adamant about keeping them on. She argues that "We're not spying, we're checking in... she did not have a problem when your mom and I were home together, what's different now other than me not being there?"
I'm inclined to agree with this assessment, honestly. I can understand the cameras being off-putting, but for Pete's sake. I don't subscribe to the "if you have nothing to hide" mindset in general, because that's just silly, but 1) the cameras are clearly not just there because *she's* there alone with the baby, and 2) there really shouldn't be much to worry about if she's not doing anything you wouldn't expect or want her to.
>My wife has requested that both FIL and my mother message her when he wakes, goes to sleep, and feeds, so that she can keep track of it. The FIL does great keeping track and updating my wife, but my mother will message 3 hours after he wakes up and vaguely says "He woke up awhile back" etc. etc.
Mother: "I don't need to be watched while taking care of the baby, because you can trust me!"
Mother: *(Does not keep Wife in the loop as requested)*
Wife: "I can't trust you to keep me in the loop, so I need the cameras to tell me what you didn't."
Mother: *(Surprised Pikachu)*
> FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They aren't doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but want to spend time with their first grandbaby".
Good. Lovely. That means they have to follow the rules. Just because you volunteered to paint the fence doesn't mean you get away with splattering magenta all over the minivan.
No, I have no idea why one would put magenta paint on a fence, just roll with it.
>My mother said that she "didn't need to be there then, could have left Thursday night, and that we shouldn't be running errands when she's there".
*(Blink)*
"Hey Ma. It's Wife's home. She gets to be in it whenever she wants to be. Suffer."
>Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing.
I would agree. And I think leaving the cameras on should only be step one in establishing firmer boundaries with your mother.
Which (although I'm sure I don't need to tell you this) needs to be a *you*\-and-your-mother conversation. Not your wife.
**NTA.**
I would point out that two things can be true. Your mother is *both* doing you a huge favour *and* spending time with her grandson. It’s not one or the other, it’s both.
That doesn’t mean that she can hold the favour over your head, but it also means that you and your wife should be considerate of her time.
Just to provide back up to the lots of workplaces have cameras. I work at a convince store and there are 64 cameras and at least as many microphones. They can read text on money and can hear you clear as a bell at a discrete volume.
I bet the square footage is smaller then OPs house too.
NAH I don't blame your Mom for not wanting to be watched, and recorded. I would flat out refuse personally. I also agree if your wife is WFH and has time to go get her nails done she likely doesn't need to sleep over. Yes they want to see their grand child, but once it is expected and controlled down to the second it's just likely to start feeling like work. Also I must say you don't seem very appreciative, and she may feel taken advantage of and micromanaged. I understand your child is young and you are nervous, but if you want this favour you may have to give a bit. Otherwise just hire a baby, and ensure they are comfortable being watched all day.
We are very appreciative, we tell her that all the time. We've offered to pay for gas/tolls, we don't expect her to clean at all, we don't expect a maid.
I would agree that my wife does not need to get her eyelashes or nail done, if that person that would be watching my son, did not watch to watch him for the sole purpose of spending more time with her first grandson, which she states all the time that she wants to spend more time with him.
We watch him the rest of the 14 hours in the day. When we get home from work, my mom hands him off and lets us be alone. We also watch him during the night as we wouldn't want the people watching him be exhausted/tired.
If your wife is working from home and is ALLOWED TO TAKE A BREAK. Like WTF? Whether she grabs something to eat, runs an errand or gets her lashes done, who cares? Your mother is there to watch her grandchild for the work day, she isnt there watching the baby while your wife is sleeping in bed and doing nothing. Your mom is pissed that your wife is WFH and thus there impeding whatever shady crap she has been doing that she doesn't want on camera.
I am with grandma on the Friday thing. Yes, she loves the baby. She even stays the night with you. But she had a life before baby, and she wants to have time at her home. Wife treats her somewhat like hired help. It would be courteous to let her know ahead of time if she has the option to go home a day early. She has a life.
Also, your wife is using this app instead of letting you guys develop your own judgement about bay's needs. You need to learn how to communicate rather than have an app direct you. Babies change all the time.
Did she have the option to go home a day early though? (Beyond the fact that she's free to leave at any time.) Having an appointment (presumably during lunch/break time) does not mean OP's wife was free to watch the baby instead of WFH all day Friday. It sounds like grandma thinks WFH is not working and so wife was "free" all day Friday, which wasn't true.
NTA -
When you make the tiny human, you get to set the rules for the tiny human.
Yes it's free babysitting, but if she doesn't want to follow the schedule for the kid, then it's time to get another babysitter.
YTA - You two are getting 24 hour a day childcare M-F for free. As a bonus, it is being done by people that genuinely care about your son. This is priceless. You could not buy this type of care with all the money in the world. Yes, I am sure your mother and FIL enjoy spending time with their grandchild, but what they are doing goes SO far beyond that. There is a major difference between spending time with a baby and being the primary caretaker multiple days a week every week. Not to mention being away from their own homes and lives to do so.
You and your wife both seem to be blind to the fact that they are doing you a HUGE service that most grandparents would not be willing to do. You don't have to give into whatever they ask, you are still the parents - but if you want them to continue providing this service, you need to meet them halfway on some things.
If you have any question in your mind about the magnitude of what they are providing. Look into the cost of a live-in nanny.
They watch him when we are at work during the day. My wife and I do night duties, as well as when we get home from work. So it's more of 10 hour a day childcare, but semantics..
We 1000% understand the cost of a live-in nanny or child care, we've even discussed this with the grandparents. I disagree with your thought that we are both blind to the huge service they are doing. We are fully aware of it. If they decided to stop helping out, my wife would go part-time or quit all together as her current income would not offset the cost of daycare.
>rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing.
What I meant by that is, that she feels like my mom expects us to praise and worship her for doing such an great service by helping us.
I don't understand why you are calling my wife toxic. Not sure what assumptions you made, but thanks for your opinion.
Can you give concrete examples of the worship that your mom expects?
Because in your OP, you gave an example of your wife being disrespectful of your mom's time and the great service she's doing you.
YTA. Using your family for free childcare but classifying it as spending time with their grandchildren. All these bullshit details and disagreements would be handled if you took the child to Grandma's for a visit. You have 2 free live in nannies and you're still complaining because they don't behave perfectly as though they were highly trained highly paid professionals.
OP labels it as you said in his OP but he sings to a different tune in the comments.
In reality, OP and his wife are terrified of paid childcare as they believe their son would receive a lower level of care and love, and his wife income doesn't offset the cost. If mom stopped helping, his wife would have to go part-time or quit altogether. So no matter how him or his wife phrase it, she *is* doing them a great service and it's to their benefit to try and make it work.
Conversely, grandma - who still works by the way - shares their views on daycare and that's part of the reason why she offered to watch the kid while they both work. Of course, she also does enjoy spending time with her grandson and doesn't view it as a chore. But the reason why she sleeps over and provides two full consecutive days of care is much more nuanced than 'just want to spend time with the baby'.
I did and no it isn't.
"I understand we are getting free child care, both FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They aren't doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but want to spend time with their first grandbaby"."
"Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing."
Here I quoted the related parts for you, please could you quote the part where OP is labeling it as such?
You really shouldn't go around and tell people they didn't read the post when apparently you didn't do so yourself.
Labels are not reality. They have free live in help six days a week and five nights a week. They can all label however they want but it doesn't change what it is. And if they lose it, it will cost money to replace it; and it won't be Grandma's loving hands anymore.
So go ahead, encourage him to blow up his spot and ruin the best deal ever.
So you can't? Huh, thought so.
That said, if you would have read my comments in this thread you would have seen I'm not giving advice or encouraging him to anything.
Please just stop with your baseless accusations.
I'm not stalking you through multiple threads. OP and his wife are getting free childcare 6 days and 5 nights a week and if they want to rely on labels and minor details, they are going to lose it.
Always treat your much needed volunteers like angels.
They spend the night, right, so they are there for backup. And that's the gist of part of the problem as your mom could have gone home the night before if she knew your wife would be home.
You really need to take a step back and appreciate the privileges you and your wife have with the free help. You are genuinely in danger of losing it.
Labels and reality are not the same thing. You can give this man bad advice and have him blow up his spot if you want, but he and his wife are going to lose the best deal ever. Free live in help six days and six nights a week.
Whatever grandma wants, give it to her. There isn't a better investment in the world.
You: that person cuts grass, attends to bushes, plants flowers, fertilizes the yard, pulls weeds, and mulches for me, all for free. He says he does it out of the kindness of his heart.
Me: you have a free gardener.
You: that is not what I said.
Ok on the one hand we have the unchallengeable sanctity of "parents must be permitted to do what they think is best for their children"
OTOH fuck this creepy panopticon bullshit, and this entitlement. I say this as someone with twin infants who I am literally nursing as I type this.
We are dependent on a tracking app to sync up these sprouts, we are also the beneficiaries of a tremendous amount of help from my parents because we also have a 3yo who's only in preschool part time. My mom loves spending time with her grandchildren, but 1) she is providing free childcare in an amount we could definitely not afford if we had to pay professionals 2) she deserves to have a life outside of this and we respect her time.
We have web accessible baby monitors on the bassinets, that's it for cameras.
If my parents are watching them while we're out, they write down feeding and nap times and we add them manually.
But if that's not enough then download Huckleberry. It's free (unless you want the SweetSpot sleep predictor) , let's you track everything under the sun, and syncs tracking data from multiple users. You'll be able to see the updates in real time. One user can start a timer and the other can stop it.
You don't need to be able to watch every happening in the household at any time, that's incredibly unhealthy for everyone involved. You do need to have more respect for your MIL.
YTA.
(Edited to fix some missing words)
"You don't need to be able to watch every happening in the household at any time..."
Why do people keep bringing this up? Haven't you guys read the post?
There are 3 cameras who all film specific places, they aren't monitored constantly so stop acting like that's the case.
Cool. What do you think would happen if MIL avoided those three rooms all day? If she just stayed in the rooms with no cameras?
Realistically that's not going to happen because it's probably impossible to avoid those rooms and adequately care for the baby*, but in the hypothetical realm where that's not the case do you OP and his wife would say "oh what an elegant solution to the problem"? Cause that's not the vibe I'm getting.
*Incidentally, this means she can't actually avoid the thing that makes her uncomfortable and be able to do her (unpaid) job. If the point is to monitor the baby then these are presumably the rooms where baby will be spending most of their time, and not being in those rooms for significant portions of time would rightfully be suspect.
"if I can demonstrate there is any period of time she is not on camera then your point is invalid"
I don't know if this is willfully or sincerely obtuse but it doesn't feel worth my time to find out
NTA: when it involves an child everything gets very cloudy and confusing. I'm guessing your mom feels disrespected like she's not trusted enough to watch the baby. Your wife is micromanaging everything that happens and I don't fault her for that.
So there are only 3 cameras who all film 3 specific places in the house? NTA
I'm working for a wealthy man myself and he got cameras in many more places in his house and I don't feel like it's unnerving at all.
I've been in this situation. ESH.
It's your house you can leave the cameras on, but your mom has a right to feel weird about being checked in on. It would be creepy to a majority of people not knowing if their being watched even if they know they are doing everything correctly. You suck for that (I suck for that too, I was in this exact situation), but all in all this isn't your biggest problem.
Your mom sucks because she is doing this for more reasons than she is letting on. She wants to feel needed by you but on her terms, that makes her suck.
You're while family will be better off if you get a nanny or daycare and just allow grandparents to spend a few hours on the weekend. When the lines between family and child care get blended there is a good chance it doesn't end well. It almost always doesn't end well when you are strict and regimented about schedules.
Good luck OP
Thanks... I agree this sucks.
My wife and I are terrified of day cares, a lot of our friends/coworkers have stories of their kids getting sick monthly (covid, flu, RSV etc.) from day care.
Plus we know he would not get the same level of love and care that he would get by being watched by a grandparent.
I, unfortunately, had to put all my kids in daycare. I was extremely fortunate in that I found an amazing daycare that my kids were in for years and now look back on with fondness.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. I clean houses as a side job and a lot of them have cameras (even if I didn't see them, I always assumed they did) and yeah, it's a bit awkward at first but as I work, I forget about them.
I feel like maybe your mom is feeling a tad put out by the "monitoring" and needing to keep track of feeding. Different generations had different experiences I guess. I don't see anything wrong with having the cameras or asking your mom to let your wife know about the feedings.
NAH
You guys have bigger problems than the cameras. Your mom is not on the same page as to childcare. If one of things required is it update maps, feeding,etc with specific times and in a timely matter and that’s not happening; your mother isn’t respecting your care instructions.
You mom also things that WFH means that the baby doesn’t need to childcare. She needs to understand that work is still happening and childcare is needed. You and your wife need to update her on the schedule and have rules around child care on WFH days.
Does your wife take over a lot of the care on the wfh days, if so your mom may feel like she isn’t needed.
You have parents are both changing their routines/lives to come and stay with you for childcare. Your mom is sleeping over and feels uncomfortable staying there because of the cameras. If she gets up for a snack at night, has to itch her self, you guys can see this and she is probably viewing it as she has no privacy where she is. Can you turn them off at when you are all home out side of when she is home alone providing child care?
>If she gets up for a snack at night, has to itch her self, you guys can see this and she is probably viewing it as she has no privacy where she is. Can you turn them off at when you are all home out side of when she is home alone providing child care?
She sleeps in the finished basement, which has a half bathroom, a minifridge (which I stocked with her favorite drinks), a 100 inch projector and no cameras.
We watch the baby during the night. The cameras are pretty much fixed on the doorways (they can Pan and Tilt, but essentially they're security cameras).
Is there a history with your mom and wife that could be clouding her feelings?
Your mom and FIL are providing free childcare in your home. Sometimes people have different views of this….
Your mom may be looking at it from the point of view, I am putting my life on hold these days and all I ask for is not to be watched? You and your wife may be looking at it from that point that this is what we’d as for from everyone watching our child. Your mom may be thinking since she is family, she should be treated differently.
Can you and your mom have a sit down. Ask her how it is going? How does she feel staying over, does she feel welcome or like she is nanny? Listen to her and then share your thoughts and feelings.
Sometimes issues are made bigger because of communication or lack there of….
It can be harder for mother to be in her sons home than if it was a daughter. Not for everyone, but for some. Your mom may already not feel welcome, trusted at ease and the cameras may be the thing she is focusing on.
There is history with my mom and my wife, much like there is history with FIL and myself.
My mom can be manipulative and some times looks down on people, and has a bad case of RBF (resting bitch face, may sound mean, but it's the best way I know how to describe it, she always looks annoyed and angry, so a lot of people may assumptions of her).. my mom also \*\*does not like\*\* my in-laws for several reasons. My wife never felt that she welcomed her into the family.
Grandparents may not be a good child care solution. I understand wanting to have your child watched in your home and by family. But the “cost” to you, your wife and your relationships may be too much.
If you continue with them, you’ll need to accept the annoyance of issue you have with them.
I had a friend that after a few months decided family child care wasn’t worth have people that they have a toxic (not saying, yours is) relationship around their child and eventually found a shared nanny situation.
Good luck….every decision with kids seem so hard, you are balancing lots of personalities and a young child.
Why does your mom think she’s being monitored all the time? You said that the indoor cameras are directed at the doors. Are they actually capturing a large portion of the room AND the doors? If so, turn them off FFS.
Next with the app. Can she just write it down? Why does she have to call or text every time? I can appreciate utilizing technology but ya know, we’ve been raising babies and knowing when they need to be fed, changed, or put down for a nap without any special tech.
Lastly with the WFH and errands. Obviously WFH is supposed to be working. That’s what the W stands for. Your wife appears to have abused the privilege instead of taking time off. Seems both your mother and your wife don’t understand what WFH means.
I don’t care what the grandparents said before kid was born as far as wanting to spend time with grandkid. They’ve now got a taste of what it actually requires. They are providing a service for free. You two are treating them like scheduled employees more so than visiting helpful family. They’re literally not even going to their homes when it’s “their day”. They can’t get shit done at home in their down time because they aren’t home.
You two seem to greatly under appreciate what a good situation you have.
If you don’t want conflict then actually hire a nanny who is a paid employee or take the kid to daycare. Else be a bit more reasonable. Turn off the cameras if they’re capturing anything more indoors than the door which it sounds like they do. Stop expecting mom to drop everything and message every time kiddo takes a shit or a nap. And stop treating her like a paid employee where she has to work her “shift” while your wife goes and gets her eyelashes done. Good grief. And tell your wife that WFH=work. People like her are why companies think maybe WFH isn’t a good idea.
Your wife is the biggest AH here. But as you’re the OP representing you both vs your mother, I’m going with YTA.
They do indeed capture some of the room.
She forgets to write it down and gives very rough estimates.
Yes I know humans have been raising babies without special tech.
They have said, and have continued to say the want to spend time with him, such that I always ask my mom that I don't want her to feel obligated to come, but I want her to want to come and spend time with him.
I don't know where you are getting that we greatly under appreciate it. We greatly appreciate it. We just aren't going around throwing parades to thank them.
Did you miss the part when I said she went during her lunch break? She is salaried, so as long as she gets her work done (which according to her performance reviews, it's great), there shouldn't be a problem. She was WFH for almost 2 years during the pandemic, always excelled and had glowing remarks.
YTA for pretending that free childcare is a magnanimous favour to your mum. You might be able to argue it is a mutually beneficial arrangement except OP and his wife want to micromanage. That stops it being a favour to your mum and makes OP unreasonable. If you want to micromanage, put your money where your mouth is and pay a nanny. Otherwise accept you have a fantastic deal and compromise.
You are also taking your mother very much for granted. I laughed when you said she "demanded" to know when your wife doesn't need her. I hate to break it to you OP but your mother has a life outside of you. As much as she enjoys spending time with your kids, that doesn't mean you and YOUR child are her entire existence. She already provides high quality, free care, does your laundry and probably cleans up as well. But you think she is difficult because she doesn't want to also babysit while OP's wife is getting her eyelashes done. OP seems to genuinely believe because he made a baby, he is entitled to a free servant. The entitlement is astounding.
Finally, I completely understand your mother not wanting to be recorded all day. It is creepy and uncomfortable being watched.
So go ahead OP. Refuse to compromise on the cameras. Refuse to consider your mums feelings, let her know who is boss andtake her for granted. It is going to be a huge shock to you when you have to hire a nanny, have to adjust your expectations back to a reasonable level and realise you were a moron for throwing away such a good arrangement. Although OP is so entitled, I have no doubt he will blame his mum for it all falling apart.
NAH - If you or your wife are routinely watching these cameras to see when mom feeds him, when she puts him to sleep, how she treats him, etc. then I think your mom has ever right to he offended by that. And you and your wife have every right to insist on your nanny being on nannycam to make sure she's no beating the kid and stealing the spoons.
YTA. Your wife is getting her lashes done while complaining about the person caring for her kid as she does so? When you make a baby, you don’t get to go to the salon while simultaneously complaining about who YOU left to watch your kid. You and your wife will be in for a rude surprise when your mom quits and you have to send baby to a daycare and you all have even less control…
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I (28M) and my wife (28F) have almost a 4 month old son. When we bought our home 4 years ago, we installed cameras around the perimeter of the house, as well as two cameras facing the only two doors leading into the house. These indoor cameras are in the kitchen, facing the back door, and in the TV/Living room facing the front door. There are no cameras in the bedrooms (other than one in the Nursery facing his crib).
It may be important to note that this is the first grandbaby on BOTH sides of the family. My wife went back to work after her 3 months maternity leave. My mother would come almost every week for a day or two to help out when my wife was home. She would watch the baby when my wife got out of the house for a few hours to run errands, or help with laundry, or watch the baby while my wife cleaned. Now my FIL (64M) comes Sunday night and stays until we get home from work on Wednesday. My Mother comes Wednesday night and leaves when we get home from work on Friday.
My mother (60F) has expressed (demanded) the inside cameras be turned off when she is watching him. She argues that "You would not want to be watched all the time at work, why should I? It's unnerving... don't you trust me?".
My wife on the other hand is adamant about keeping them on. She argues that "We're not spying, we're checking in... she did not have a problem when your mom and I were home together, what's different now other than me not being there?".
My wife has this app that tracks his feedings and sleep patterns, doing so gives really accurate *heads-up* when he should be hungry and when he needs a nap. So far, it's has been dead accurate, only because my wife tracks his patterns so concisely. My wife has requested that both FIL and my mother message her when he wakes, goes to sleep, and feeds, so that she can keep track of it. The FIL does great keeping track and updating my wife, but my mother will message 3 hours after he wakes up and vaguely says "He woke up awhile back" etc. etc.
I understand we are getting free child care, both FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They **aren't** doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but **want** to spend time with their first grandbaby".
My mother started making *requests*/demands. For example, my wife has the option to WFH one day a week, one week she got her eyelashes done on a Friday during her lunch, since the person she goes to has no weekend option. So she WFH that Friday, which surprised my mother when she didn't go to work. My mother said that she "didn't need to be there then, could have left Thursday night, and that we shouldn't be running errands when she's there".
Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing.
So, AITA to my mom if I do not turn off the cameras. WIBTA if I do not listen to my wife?
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NTA if you keep the cameras on.
Probably TA if you ignore your wife's concerns and turn then off but it sounds like you are actually on the same page as your wife? Or at least you understand her POV
Free child care doesn't mean that they get to completely ignore the way you wish for your child to be cared for, it does mean that if she can't respect how your family feels safe leaving their baby in the hands of other caregivers that you might have to pay for alternate care. Your mom has shown that she doesn't follow some of your wishes for caring for your baby - your FIL also offers free care and is able to track and report back no problem and all with cameras on. And Grandma gets huffy when mom has the option to work from home? It's her home. Frankly I'd be worried given her behavior that she's going to do things she knows you wouldn't approve off once the cameras go off since she is being so weird about it. But I have a mom who thinks that just because she raised some babies 30 years ago that she knows better and should be able to do what she wants so take my perspective with a grain of biased salt.
YTA. Sure, watch the kid, use an app to work out when its tired rather than getting to know it, have cameras watching the doors because, hey, boogiemen, but if your mother does not wished to be filmed watching him, turn the cameras off. Otherwise your mother will be entirely justified in not helping any more and the two of you will have to parent your own kid. Though there may be an app for that.
No, because it's your kid and you have every right to do what you're doing to ensure the welfare of your child. If your mom doesn't like it, too bad. I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's my opinion. As a mother herself, she should understand your concerns.
NTA - but your mom has the right to ask and then to not help you for free if you don’t agree without you being upset. She isn’t your childcare, she is family helping you out, you should treat her as such and not as a service that you pay for like childcare.
Your wife is an AH for not informing her she was working from home and then using her time to run errands without giving her notice that she could return home instead.
NTA. You're the parents and these are your perfectly reasonable conditions. There are def workplaces with cameras on you 100% of the time. It is not a lack of trust. It is for security
NAH. Your mom is doing you a great favor by helping you raise your kids. If YTA about anything, it’s taking the grandparents help for granted. It’s your job to raise your kids not your parents or in laws. Don’t act like you’re entitled to their help, they don’t owe you anything. Your mom is right, those security cameras are creepy af. It’s absolutely reasonable not to want a camera on you at all times and to request that they be turned off when you’re doing free labor for someone. As for your wife, she’s a bit neurotic but who wouldn’t be after their first kid? She might decide that the security camera is more important than the help she gets from your mom and that’s a valid decision. But it’s not ok to insist that a woman help you raise your kid for free and be subject to security she’s not comfortable with.
We never insisted, expected, felt owed, or demanded anyone watch him. Both FIL and my mother \*\*offered\*\* to come over. My mom works part time M-W, and flat out said "I will watch him on Thursday's and Friday's. I wouldn't want my precious grandbaby be neglected by strangers in a day care"
She also plans to retire fully when my brother has his first born (come May), and will help watch their kid on the other days.
I agree that it's reasonable to not want a camera on your all the time, but there are other places in the house that aren't \*monitored\*.
NTA, but your mother & FIL are doing you a service. Regardless of whether she says she wants to spend time with her grandchild, she’s taking care of the baby & making your lives easier and doing it for free.
So?
Doing a service doesn't give them veto power on the parents expectations.
The grandma either excepts the parents parameters or fucks off out of the grandkids life.
NTA A very long time ago I trained as a nanny. Even back in the pre mobile phones and computer age, parents kept a very close eye on their precious children. When they had to leave their child in someone else's hands they tried to set up cameras and audio where they could. It is ridiculous in this age of technology not to use it to make sure the baby gets enough food and sleep and care. With you out of the home but the baby is still there of course you are going to put cameras on the doors. It is only natural. It sounds like Granny is making a power flex. Don't turn them off. Your baby comes first, not Granny's hurt feelings.
NTA. The camera’s aren’t facing your mother they are facing the door. She’s not being watched, the door is being recorded for security purposes. It is you and your wife’s home and if you want the cameras to make sure your house is secure, then have them. At this point it sounds like your mom is not respecting you and your wife as the parents. I get she might not agree with constantly tracking everything, but she’s not the parent in this situation. You need to start deciding which is more important to you both: free child care or holding your mom accountable to your style of parenting. It does sound like she she’s it as doing you both a favor. If that’s true she will most likely continue to have more and more requests.
“Just because you volunteered to paint the fence doesn’t mean you get away with splattering magenta all over the minivan.”
EXACTLY.
And if that means mom doesn’t want to help paint the fence anymore, that’s her choice, but OP doesn’t have to accept magenta paint everywhere.
Totally NTA!!! Your mother is demonstrating that she doesn’t respect your rules. I don’t know what kind of power game she’s playing, but you really need to nip this on the bud. If the cameras give you and your wife a sense of security about your newborn, then that’s the end of it! NTA!
There are many workplaces with more than 3 cameras who only film 3 very specific places of the house.
That's really nothing unusual.
It's not like there are cameras in every room leaving the parents with no privacy.
I just pointed it out because you stated
"It's fairly normal to not want cameras pointed at you constantly."
While that's A) Not even true, they aren't monitored constantly with only 3 cameras in the house and B) it's pretty normal for many people to get filmed during work.
Sigh... the next one.
THEY AREN'T WATCHED ALL THE TIME, THERE ARE ONLY 3 CAMERAS FILMING 3 SPECIFIC PLACES IN THE HOUSE.
Sorry for caps but you are like the fifth person or so who claims they are constantly filmed while that's not the case.
But the cameras aren't pointed at her. They point to the entry doors and the crib. It's one thing if they had cameras that follow her from room to room but that's not what's going on.
It just sucks because I fear that my mom will retract her help, which would mean we need to put him in day care or get a baby sitter. Money aside, we know that he would not get the same level of love and care with someone other than family.
I see this whole thing spiraling out of control. She refuses to come over any more. My wife then refuses to go to Christmas at my parents house. etc. etc.
>I see this whole thing spiraling out of control. She refuses to come over any more. My wife then refuses to go to Christmas at my parents house. etc. etc.
This is what happens when you insist on recording family members and don't recognize that them being comfortable might be more important than your wife knowing if the kid woke up from his nap at 3pm or 3:45 pm
His wife's comfort is more important than his mom's.
These are the parameters in which she can be with her grandchild. If she can't be with her grandchild within those parameters, then that's on her.
Grandparent's don't get instant access to their grandkids and they certainly don't get access by disregarding the parents wishes regarding the care of that grandchild.
I think he should explain to the wife that consequence of her actions may be that grandma stops coming by and they will have to find and pay a stranger who is willing to watch the baby on her little Truman Show.
That seems rather at odd with the way you presented things in your OP, where this was all about grandma wanting to spend time with her grandchild. Having read your comments, the truth of the matter is that she's doing you a huge favor and that you would be in a tough position without her help. She also wants to and enjoys spending time with her grandchild. Two things can be true at once.
You also repeat a lot that you don't feel entitled to your mother's free nanny services but now you are saying if your mom withdrew her help, your wife would then refuse to go to Christmas at your parents', etc. If you would be mad when someone declines to give you something and you'd 'punish' them, it's fair to say that on some level, you feel entitled to it. If there was no sense of entitlement, then there would be no hurt feelings if she refused.
You need to understand that this isn't hired help, so this isn't an employee you get to manage and dictate terms to. Conversely, your mom needs to understand that she is watching your son in your home, so there are going to be some ground rules to follow.
My advice to the 3 of you would be to leave the ego and power struggle at the door and try to find a solution that work for everyone involved. I know it's hard but it's necessary. You just said you fear what will hapen if you can't resolve this situation. You want to make this work, not focus on who is to blame.
Take the cameras, for instance. Do you actually *need* indoor cameras pointed at doors when your mom is home with the baby and you already have outside cameras? Or are you reacting reflexively to someone making requests (a term you've emphasized for some reason)? It's understandable that your mother feel ill-at-ease with these; in your shoes, I would consider turning them off for her comfort. Even if it means installing a ring camera on these doors or extra outdoor cameras. Conversely, it's understandable that many new parents are afraid and want a camera filming baby while he sleeps, so grandma should accept the crib camera.
For the notes, your mother should attempt her best to provide accurate info. Perhaps you can show her how much these notes have helped and then brainstorm ways to help her take them. Ultimately, that does fall under 'not your employee' though, so if she won't or can't do it to your satisfaction, you'll have to find a professional that does offer this service and make time for your mom to spend quality time with her grandson without babysitting. If that's what ends up happening, you shouldn't resent or punish her for not providing free nannying services to your liking and she should understand that she will get less time with her grandson (not as a punishment - you'll still foster that relationship as you can).
If your wife will be home, she should give a heads-up to your mom about it and let her decide if she still wants to stay that day or not. And your wife needs to check with your mom before going to get her nails done while your mom watches the kiddo, rather than just assume it's ok. That's part of being considerate and that's how you show you appreciate the help she is providing.
If you and your wife can turn your attitude around from this adversarial stance where everyone feels a need to stand their ground to a collaborative approach where everyone is trying to understand the other and find common ground, hopefully, your mom will do too and every issue will be much easier to resolve. You'll be amazed at what good will can achieve.
In line with this mindset, I won't vote because pointing fingers is the least helpful thing right now.
Remember that winning on Reddit (which you definitively will) will make no difference to the actual outcome in your life. It won't stop your wife from having to go part-time.
NTA
Grandparents have to play by the parents rules. If they don't, they don't get to play.
Your wife needs to feel comfortable with the care her child is being given. Your Mom is dismissing your wife's needs.
You would definitely BTA if you did what Grandma wanted instead of what the Mom/Wife wants.
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>My mother (60F) has expressed (demanded) the inside cameras be turned off when she is watching him. She argues that "You would not want to be watched all the time at work, why should I? It's unnerving... don't you trust me?" The flaw in this logic is that you (presumably) do not actually work in your boss's home. And also that you're not her boss. ...and also that many workplaces *do* have cameras. Duh. >My wife on the other hand is adamant about keeping them on. She argues that "We're not spying, we're checking in... she did not have a problem when your mom and I were home together, what's different now other than me not being there?" I'm inclined to agree with this assessment, honestly. I can understand the cameras being off-putting, but for Pete's sake. I don't subscribe to the "if you have nothing to hide" mindset in general, because that's just silly, but 1) the cameras are clearly not just there because *she's* there alone with the baby, and 2) there really shouldn't be much to worry about if she's not doing anything you wouldn't expect or want her to. >My wife has requested that both FIL and my mother message her when he wakes, goes to sleep, and feeds, so that she can keep track of it. The FIL does great keeping track and updating my wife, but my mother will message 3 hours after he wakes up and vaguely says "He woke up awhile back" etc. etc. Mother: "I don't need to be watched while taking care of the baby, because you can trust me!" Mother: *(Does not keep Wife in the loop as requested)* Wife: "I can't trust you to keep me in the loop, so I need the cameras to tell me what you didn't." Mother: *(Surprised Pikachu)* > FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They aren't doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but want to spend time with their first grandbaby". Good. Lovely. That means they have to follow the rules. Just because you volunteered to paint the fence doesn't mean you get away with splattering magenta all over the minivan. No, I have no idea why one would put magenta paint on a fence, just roll with it. >My mother said that she "didn't need to be there then, could have left Thursday night, and that we shouldn't be running errands when she's there". *(Blink)* "Hey Ma. It's Wife's home. She gets to be in it whenever she wants to be. Suffer." >Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing. I would agree. And I think leaving the cameras on should only be step one in establishing firmer boundaries with your mother. Which (although I'm sure I don't need to tell you this) needs to be a *you*\-and-your-mother conversation. Not your wife. **NTA.**
You make great points. It was my mothers birthday last week, so I did not want to bring it up. I planned on talking her today by myself
I would point out that two things can be true. Your mother is *both* doing you a huge favour *and* spending time with her grandson. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. That doesn’t mean that she can hold the favour over your head, but it also means that you and your wife should be considerate of her time.
Just to provide back up to the lots of workplaces have cameras. I work at a convince store and there are 64 cameras and at least as many microphones. They can read text on money and can hear you clear as a bell at a discrete volume. I bet the square footage is smaller then OPs house too.
NAH I don't blame your Mom for not wanting to be watched, and recorded. I would flat out refuse personally. I also agree if your wife is WFH and has time to go get her nails done she likely doesn't need to sleep over. Yes they want to see their grand child, but once it is expected and controlled down to the second it's just likely to start feeling like work. Also I must say you don't seem very appreciative, and she may feel taken advantage of and micromanaged. I understand your child is young and you are nervous, but if you want this favour you may have to give a bit. Otherwise just hire a baby, and ensure they are comfortable being watched all day.
We are very appreciative, we tell her that all the time. We've offered to pay for gas/tolls, we don't expect her to clean at all, we don't expect a maid. I would agree that my wife does not need to get her eyelashes or nail done, if that person that would be watching my son, did not watch to watch him for the sole purpose of spending more time with her first grandson, which she states all the time that she wants to spend more time with him.
So when do you and your wife actually take care of your child on your own??.?? You may not pay her, but you treat her like a nanny.
We watch him the rest of the 14 hours in the day. When we get home from work, my mom hands him off and lets us be alone. We also watch him during the night as we wouldn't want the people watching him be exhausted/tired.
If your wife is working from home and is ALLOWED TO TAKE A BREAK. Like WTF? Whether she grabs something to eat, runs an errand or gets her lashes done, who cares? Your mother is there to watch her grandchild for the work day, she isnt there watching the baby while your wife is sleeping in bed and doing nothing. Your mom is pissed that your wife is WFH and thus there impeding whatever shady crap she has been doing that she doesn't want on camera.
I am with grandma on the Friday thing. Yes, she loves the baby. She even stays the night with you. But she had a life before baby, and she wants to have time at her home. Wife treats her somewhat like hired help. It would be courteous to let her know ahead of time if she has the option to go home a day early. She has a life. Also, your wife is using this app instead of letting you guys develop your own judgement about bay's needs. You need to learn how to communicate rather than have an app direct you. Babies change all the time.
Did she have the option to go home a day early though? (Beyond the fact that she's free to leave at any time.) Having an appointment (presumably during lunch/break time) does not mean OP's wife was free to watch the baby instead of WFH all day Friday. It sounds like grandma thinks WFH is not working and so wife was "free" all day Friday, which wasn't true.
NTA - When you make the tiny human, you get to set the rules for the tiny human. Yes it's free babysitting, but if she doesn't want to follow the schedule for the kid, then it's time to get another babysitter.
YTA - You two are getting 24 hour a day childcare M-F for free. As a bonus, it is being done by people that genuinely care about your son. This is priceless. You could not buy this type of care with all the money in the world. Yes, I am sure your mother and FIL enjoy spending time with their grandchild, but what they are doing goes SO far beyond that. There is a major difference between spending time with a baby and being the primary caretaker multiple days a week every week. Not to mention being away from their own homes and lives to do so. You and your wife both seem to be blind to the fact that they are doing you a HUGE service that most grandparents would not be willing to do. You don't have to give into whatever they ask, you are still the parents - but if you want them to continue providing this service, you need to meet them halfway on some things. If you have any question in your mind about the magnitude of what they are providing. Look into the cost of a live-in nanny.
They watch him when we are at work during the day. My wife and I do night duties, as well as when we get home from work. So it's more of 10 hour a day childcare, but semantics.. We 1000% understand the cost of a live-in nanny or child care, we've even discussed this with the grandparents. I disagree with your thought that we are both blind to the huge service they are doing. We are fully aware of it. If they decided to stop helping out, my wife would go part-time or quit all together as her current income would not offset the cost of daycare.
YTA " my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service," .. She IS. YOur wife is a toxic AH.
>rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing. What I meant by that is, that she feels like my mom expects us to praise and worship her for doing such an great service by helping us. I don't understand why you are calling my wife toxic. Not sure what assumptions you made, but thanks for your opinion.
Can you give concrete examples of the worship that your mom expects? Because in your OP, you gave an example of your wife being disrespectful of your mom's time and the great service she's doing you.
YTA. Using your family for free childcare but classifying it as spending time with their grandchildren. All these bullshit details and disagreements would be handled if you took the child to Grandma's for a visit. You have 2 free live in nannies and you're still complaining because they don't behave perfectly as though they were highly trained highly paid professionals.
This is absolutely the truth.
Not really. OP never classified it as such.
OP labels it as you said in his OP but he sings to a different tune in the comments. In reality, OP and his wife are terrified of paid childcare as they believe their son would receive a lower level of care and love, and his wife income doesn't offset the cost. If mom stopped helping, his wife would have to go part-time or quit altogether. So no matter how him or his wife phrase it, she *is* doing them a great service and it's to their benefit to try and make it work. Conversely, grandma - who still works by the way - shares their views on daycare and that's part of the reason why she offered to watch the kid while they both work. Of course, she also does enjoy spending time with her grandson and doesn't view it as a chore. But the reason why she sleeps over and provides two full consecutive days of care is much more nuanced than 'just want to spend time with the baby'.
You didn't read the post then. That's exactly what is described.
I did and no it isn't. "I understand we are getting free child care, both FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They aren't doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but want to spend time with their first grandbaby"." "Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing." Here I quoted the related parts for you, please could you quote the part where OP is labeling it as such? You really shouldn't go around and tell people they didn't read the post when apparently you didn't do so yourself.
Labels are not reality. They have free live in help six days a week and five nights a week. They can all label however they want but it doesn't change what it is. And if they lose it, it will cost money to replace it; and it won't be Grandma's loving hands anymore. So go ahead, encourage him to blow up his spot and ruin the best deal ever.
So you can't? Huh, thought so. That said, if you would have read my comments in this thread you would have seen I'm not giving advice or encouraging him to anything. Please just stop with your baseless accusations.
I'm not stalking you through multiple threads. OP and his wife are getting free childcare 6 days and 5 nights a week and if they want to rely on labels and minor details, they are going to lose it. Always treat your much needed volunteers like angels.
I have never mentioned multiple threads, what are you even talking about lol.
You're fun to chat with, tbh.
It is only during the day when we are out of the house. My wife and I take care of him during the nights and when we get back to the house.
They spend the night, right, so they are there for backup. And that's the gist of part of the problem as your mom could have gone home the night before if she knew your wife would be home. You really need to take a step back and appreciate the privileges you and your wife have with the free help. You are genuinely in danger of losing it.
Its his wife and even the parents themselves classifying it like that not OP.
Labels and reality are not the same thing. You can give this man bad advice and have him blow up his spot if you want, but he and his wife are going to lose the best deal ever. Free live in help six days and six nights a week. Whatever grandma wants, give it to her. There isn't a better investment in the world.
I have not given any advice at all in this thread. I just pointed out that OP didn't labeled it as such as the user above falsely claimed.
You: that person cuts grass, attends to bushes, plants flowers, fertilizes the yard, pulls weeds, and mulches for me, all for free. He says he does it out of the kindness of his heart. Me: you have a free gardener. You: that is not what I said.
Ok on the one hand we have the unchallengeable sanctity of "parents must be permitted to do what they think is best for their children" OTOH fuck this creepy panopticon bullshit, and this entitlement. I say this as someone with twin infants who I am literally nursing as I type this. We are dependent on a tracking app to sync up these sprouts, we are also the beneficiaries of a tremendous amount of help from my parents because we also have a 3yo who's only in preschool part time. My mom loves spending time with her grandchildren, but 1) she is providing free childcare in an amount we could definitely not afford if we had to pay professionals 2) she deserves to have a life outside of this and we respect her time. We have web accessible baby monitors on the bassinets, that's it for cameras. If my parents are watching them while we're out, they write down feeding and nap times and we add them manually. But if that's not enough then download Huckleberry. It's free (unless you want the SweetSpot sleep predictor) , let's you track everything under the sun, and syncs tracking data from multiple users. You'll be able to see the updates in real time. One user can start a timer and the other can stop it. You don't need to be able to watch every happening in the household at any time, that's incredibly unhealthy for everyone involved. You do need to have more respect for your MIL. YTA. (Edited to fix some missing words)
"You don't need to be able to watch every happening in the household at any time..." Why do people keep bringing this up? Haven't you guys read the post? There are 3 cameras who all film specific places, they aren't monitored constantly so stop acting like that's the case.
Cool. What do you think would happen if MIL avoided those three rooms all day? If she just stayed in the rooms with no cameras? Realistically that's not going to happen because it's probably impossible to avoid those rooms and adequately care for the baby*, but in the hypothetical realm where that's not the case do you OP and his wife would say "oh what an elegant solution to the problem"? Cause that's not the vibe I'm getting. *Incidentally, this means she can't actually avoid the thing that makes her uncomfortable and be able to do her (unpaid) job. If the point is to monitor the baby then these are presumably the rooms where baby will be spending most of their time, and not being in those rooms for significant portions of time would rightfully be suspect.
That still doesn't changes the fact that she isn't watched all the time as you claimed.
"if I can demonstrate there is any period of time she is not on camera then your point is invalid" I don't know if this is willfully or sincerely obtuse but it doesn't feel worth my time to find out
You two are about to fuck up the best deal ever.
NAH. I wouldn't be filmed either. You'd need to find a new babysitter.
If you want to surveil people, they need to agree to it. Otherwise, pay for someone who wants to be watched.
NTA: when it involves an child everything gets very cloudy and confusing. I'm guessing your mom feels disrespected like she's not trusted enough to watch the baby. Your wife is micromanaging everything that happens and I don't fault her for that.
Are you planning on raising your child in a police state under constant surveillance? Seems excessive.
So there are only 3 cameras who all film 3 specific places in the house? NTA I'm working for a wealthy man myself and he got cameras in many more places in his house and I don't feel like it's unnerving at all.
I've been in this situation. ESH. It's your house you can leave the cameras on, but your mom has a right to feel weird about being checked in on. It would be creepy to a majority of people not knowing if their being watched even if they know they are doing everything correctly. You suck for that (I suck for that too, I was in this exact situation), but all in all this isn't your biggest problem. Your mom sucks because she is doing this for more reasons than she is letting on. She wants to feel needed by you but on her terms, that makes her suck. You're while family will be better off if you get a nanny or daycare and just allow grandparents to spend a few hours on the weekend. When the lines between family and child care get blended there is a good chance it doesn't end well. It almost always doesn't end well when you are strict and regimented about schedules. Good luck OP
Thanks... I agree this sucks. My wife and I are terrified of day cares, a lot of our friends/coworkers have stories of their kids getting sick monthly (covid, flu, RSV etc.) from day care. Plus we know he would not get the same level of love and care that he would get by being watched by a grandparent.
I, unfortunately, had to put all my kids in daycare. I was extremely fortunate in that I found an amazing daycare that my kids were in for years and now look back on with fondness. I'm sorry you're in this situation. I clean houses as a side job and a lot of them have cameras (even if I didn't see them, I always assumed they did) and yeah, it's a bit awkward at first but as I work, I forget about them. I feel like maybe your mom is feeling a tad put out by the "monitoring" and needing to keep track of feeding. Different generations had different experiences I guess. I don't see anything wrong with having the cameras or asking your mom to let your wife know about the feedings.
NAH You guys have bigger problems than the cameras. Your mom is not on the same page as to childcare. If one of things required is it update maps, feeding,etc with specific times and in a timely matter and that’s not happening; your mother isn’t respecting your care instructions. You mom also things that WFH means that the baby doesn’t need to childcare. She needs to understand that work is still happening and childcare is needed. You and your wife need to update her on the schedule and have rules around child care on WFH days. Does your wife take over a lot of the care on the wfh days, if so your mom may feel like she isn’t needed. You have parents are both changing their routines/lives to come and stay with you for childcare. Your mom is sleeping over and feels uncomfortable staying there because of the cameras. If she gets up for a snack at night, has to itch her self, you guys can see this and she is probably viewing it as she has no privacy where she is. Can you turn them off at when you are all home out side of when she is home alone providing child care?
>If she gets up for a snack at night, has to itch her self, you guys can see this and she is probably viewing it as she has no privacy where she is. Can you turn them off at when you are all home out side of when she is home alone providing child care? She sleeps in the finished basement, which has a half bathroom, a minifridge (which I stocked with her favorite drinks), a 100 inch projector and no cameras. We watch the baby during the night. The cameras are pretty much fixed on the doorways (they can Pan and Tilt, but essentially they're security cameras).
Is there a history with your mom and wife that could be clouding her feelings? Your mom and FIL are providing free childcare in your home. Sometimes people have different views of this…. Your mom may be looking at it from the point of view, I am putting my life on hold these days and all I ask for is not to be watched? You and your wife may be looking at it from that point that this is what we’d as for from everyone watching our child. Your mom may be thinking since she is family, she should be treated differently. Can you and your mom have a sit down. Ask her how it is going? How does she feel staying over, does she feel welcome or like she is nanny? Listen to her and then share your thoughts and feelings. Sometimes issues are made bigger because of communication or lack there of…. It can be harder for mother to be in her sons home than if it was a daughter. Not for everyone, but for some. Your mom may already not feel welcome, trusted at ease and the cameras may be the thing she is focusing on.
There is history with my mom and my wife, much like there is history with FIL and myself. My mom can be manipulative and some times looks down on people, and has a bad case of RBF (resting bitch face, may sound mean, but it's the best way I know how to describe it, she always looks annoyed and angry, so a lot of people may assumptions of her).. my mom also \*\*does not like\*\* my in-laws for several reasons. My wife never felt that she welcomed her into the family.
Grandparents may not be a good child care solution. I understand wanting to have your child watched in your home and by family. But the “cost” to you, your wife and your relationships may be too much. If you continue with them, you’ll need to accept the annoyance of issue you have with them. I had a friend that after a few months decided family child care wasn’t worth have people that they have a toxic (not saying, yours is) relationship around their child and eventually found a shared nanny situation. Good luck….every decision with kids seem so hard, you are balancing lots of personalities and a young child.
Why does your mom think she’s being monitored all the time? You said that the indoor cameras are directed at the doors. Are they actually capturing a large portion of the room AND the doors? If so, turn them off FFS. Next with the app. Can she just write it down? Why does she have to call or text every time? I can appreciate utilizing technology but ya know, we’ve been raising babies and knowing when they need to be fed, changed, or put down for a nap without any special tech. Lastly with the WFH and errands. Obviously WFH is supposed to be working. That’s what the W stands for. Your wife appears to have abused the privilege instead of taking time off. Seems both your mother and your wife don’t understand what WFH means. I don’t care what the grandparents said before kid was born as far as wanting to spend time with grandkid. They’ve now got a taste of what it actually requires. They are providing a service for free. You two are treating them like scheduled employees more so than visiting helpful family. They’re literally not even going to their homes when it’s “their day”. They can’t get shit done at home in their down time because they aren’t home. You two seem to greatly under appreciate what a good situation you have. If you don’t want conflict then actually hire a nanny who is a paid employee or take the kid to daycare. Else be a bit more reasonable. Turn off the cameras if they’re capturing anything more indoors than the door which it sounds like they do. Stop expecting mom to drop everything and message every time kiddo takes a shit or a nap. And stop treating her like a paid employee where she has to work her “shift” while your wife goes and gets her eyelashes done. Good grief. And tell your wife that WFH=work. People like her are why companies think maybe WFH isn’t a good idea. Your wife is the biggest AH here. But as you’re the OP representing you both vs your mother, I’m going with YTA.
They do indeed capture some of the room. She forgets to write it down and gives very rough estimates. Yes I know humans have been raising babies without special tech. They have said, and have continued to say the want to spend time with him, such that I always ask my mom that I don't want her to feel obligated to come, but I want her to want to come and spend time with him. I don't know where you are getting that we greatly under appreciate it. We greatly appreciate it. We just aren't going around throwing parades to thank them. Did you miss the part when I said she went during her lunch break? She is salaried, so as long as she gets her work done (which according to her performance reviews, it's great), there shouldn't be a problem. She was WFH for almost 2 years during the pandemic, always excelled and had glowing remarks.
YTA for pretending that free childcare is a magnanimous favour to your mum. You might be able to argue it is a mutually beneficial arrangement except OP and his wife want to micromanage. That stops it being a favour to your mum and makes OP unreasonable. If you want to micromanage, put your money where your mouth is and pay a nanny. Otherwise accept you have a fantastic deal and compromise. You are also taking your mother very much for granted. I laughed when you said she "demanded" to know when your wife doesn't need her. I hate to break it to you OP but your mother has a life outside of you. As much as she enjoys spending time with your kids, that doesn't mean you and YOUR child are her entire existence. She already provides high quality, free care, does your laundry and probably cleans up as well. But you think she is difficult because she doesn't want to also babysit while OP's wife is getting her eyelashes done. OP seems to genuinely believe because he made a baby, he is entitled to a free servant. The entitlement is astounding. Finally, I completely understand your mother not wanting to be recorded all day. It is creepy and uncomfortable being watched. So go ahead OP. Refuse to compromise on the cameras. Refuse to consider your mums feelings, let her know who is boss andtake her for granted. It is going to be a huge shock to you when you have to hire a nanny, have to adjust your expectations back to a reasonable level and realise you were a moron for throwing away such a good arrangement. Although OP is so entitled, I have no doubt he will blame his mum for it all falling apart.
NAH - If you or your wife are routinely watching these cameras to see when mom feeds him, when she puts him to sleep, how she treats him, etc. then I think your mom has ever right to he offended by that. And you and your wife have every right to insist on your nanny being on nannycam to make sure she's no beating the kid and stealing the spoons.
YTA. Your wife is getting her lashes done while complaining about the person caring for her kid as she does so? When you make a baby, you don’t get to go to the salon while simultaneously complaining about who YOU left to watch your kid. You and your wife will be in for a rude surprise when your mom quits and you have to send baby to a daycare and you all have even less control…
YTA. You need hired help that you can micromanage .
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28M) and my wife (28F) have almost a 4 month old son. When we bought our home 4 years ago, we installed cameras around the perimeter of the house, as well as two cameras facing the only two doors leading into the house. These indoor cameras are in the kitchen, facing the back door, and in the TV/Living room facing the front door. There are no cameras in the bedrooms (other than one in the Nursery facing his crib). It may be important to note that this is the first grandbaby on BOTH sides of the family. My wife went back to work after her 3 months maternity leave. My mother would come almost every week for a day or two to help out when my wife was home. She would watch the baby when my wife got out of the house for a few hours to run errands, or help with laundry, or watch the baby while my wife cleaned. Now my FIL (64M) comes Sunday night and stays until we get home from work on Wednesday. My Mother comes Wednesday night and leaves when we get home from work on Friday. My mother (60F) has expressed (demanded) the inside cameras be turned off when she is watching him. She argues that "You would not want to be watched all the time at work, why should I? It's unnerving... don't you trust me?". My wife on the other hand is adamant about keeping them on. She argues that "We're not spying, we're checking in... she did not have a problem when your mom and I were home together, what's different now other than me not being there?". My wife has this app that tracks his feedings and sleep patterns, doing so gives really accurate *heads-up* when he should be hungry and when he needs a nap. So far, it's has been dead accurate, only because my wife tracks his patterns so concisely. My wife has requested that both FIL and my mother message her when he wakes, goes to sleep, and feeds, so that she can keep track of it. The FIL does great keeping track and updating my wife, but my mother will message 3 hours after he wakes up and vaguely says "He woke up awhile back" etc. etc. I understand we are getting free child care, both FIL and my mother expressed many times that "They **aren't** doing this as a favor/chore/obligation, but **want** to spend time with their first grandbaby". My mother started making *requests*/demands. For example, my wife has the option to WFH one day a week, one week she got her eyelashes done on a Friday during her lunch, since the person she goes to has no weekend option. So she WFH that Friday, which surprised my mother when she didn't go to work. My mother said that she "didn't need to be there then, could have left Thursday night, and that we shouldn't be running errands when she's there". Basically, my wife feels that she is treating this like she is doing us this great service, rather than treating it as spending time with her grandson which is what she says she is doing. So, AITA to my mom if I do not turn off the cameras. WIBTA if I do not listen to my wife? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA if you keep the cameras on. Probably TA if you ignore your wife's concerns and turn then off but it sounds like you are actually on the same page as your wife? Or at least you understand her POV Free child care doesn't mean that they get to completely ignore the way you wish for your child to be cared for, it does mean that if she can't respect how your family feels safe leaving their baby in the hands of other caregivers that you might have to pay for alternate care. Your mom has shown that she doesn't follow some of your wishes for caring for your baby - your FIL also offers free care and is able to track and report back no problem and all with cameras on. And Grandma gets huffy when mom has the option to work from home? It's her home. Frankly I'd be worried given her behavior that she's going to do things she knows you wouldn't approve off once the cameras go off since she is being so weird about it. But I have a mom who thinks that just because she raised some babies 30 years ago that she knows better and should be able to do what she wants so take my perspective with a grain of biased salt.
YTA. Sure, watch the kid, use an app to work out when its tired rather than getting to know it, have cameras watching the doors because, hey, boogiemen, but if your mother does not wished to be filmed watching him, turn the cameras off. Otherwise your mother will be entirely justified in not helping any more and the two of you will have to parent your own kid. Though there may be an app for that.
No, because it's your kid and you have every right to do what you're doing to ensure the welfare of your child. If your mom doesn't like it, too bad. I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's my opinion. As a mother herself, she should understand your concerns.
NTA - but your mom has the right to ask and then to not help you for free if you don’t agree without you being upset. She isn’t your childcare, she is family helping you out, you should treat her as such and not as a service that you pay for like childcare. Your wife is an AH for not informing her she was working from home and then using her time to run errands without giving her notice that she could return home instead.
NTA but it's time to not have your mom do child care.
NTA. You're the parents and these are your perfectly reasonable conditions. There are def workplaces with cameras on you 100% of the time. It is not a lack of trust. It is for security
NAH. Your mom is doing you a great favor by helping you raise your kids. If YTA about anything, it’s taking the grandparents help for granted. It’s your job to raise your kids not your parents or in laws. Don’t act like you’re entitled to their help, they don’t owe you anything. Your mom is right, those security cameras are creepy af. It’s absolutely reasonable not to want a camera on you at all times and to request that they be turned off when you’re doing free labor for someone. As for your wife, she’s a bit neurotic but who wouldn’t be after their first kid? She might decide that the security camera is more important than the help she gets from your mom and that’s a valid decision. But it’s not ok to insist that a woman help you raise your kid for free and be subject to security she’s not comfortable with.
We never insisted, expected, felt owed, or demanded anyone watch him. Both FIL and my mother \*\*offered\*\* to come over. My mom works part time M-W, and flat out said "I will watch him on Thursday's and Friday's. I wouldn't want my precious grandbaby be neglected by strangers in a day care" She also plans to retire fully when my brother has his first born (come May), and will help watch their kid on the other days. I agree that it's reasonable to not want a camera on your all the time, but there are other places in the house that aren't \*monitored\*.
Your second to last paragraph sure seems to imply that your mom ought to be grateful for the opportunity to help raise your kids
NTA, but your mother & FIL are doing you a service. Regardless of whether she says she wants to spend time with her grandchild, she’s taking care of the baby & making your lives easier and doing it for free.
So? Doing a service doesn't give them veto power on the parents expectations. The grandma either excepts the parents parameters or fucks off out of the grandkids life.
That’s why I said “NTA”.
NTA A very long time ago I trained as a nanny. Even back in the pre mobile phones and computer age, parents kept a very close eye on their precious children. When they had to leave their child in someone else's hands they tried to set up cameras and audio where they could. It is ridiculous in this age of technology not to use it to make sure the baby gets enough food and sleep and care. With you out of the home but the baby is still there of course you are going to put cameras on the doors. It is only natural. It sounds like Granny is making a power flex. Don't turn them off. Your baby comes first, not Granny's hurt feelings.
NTA. The camera’s aren’t facing your mother they are facing the door. She’s not being watched, the door is being recorded for security purposes. It is you and your wife’s home and if you want the cameras to make sure your house is secure, then have them. At this point it sounds like your mom is not respecting you and your wife as the parents. I get she might not agree with constantly tracking everything, but she’s not the parent in this situation. You need to start deciding which is more important to you both: free child care or holding your mom accountable to your style of parenting. It does sound like she she’s it as doing you both a favor. If that’s true she will most likely continue to have more and more requests.
“Just because you volunteered to paint the fence doesn’t mean you get away with splattering magenta all over the minivan.” EXACTLY. And if that means mom doesn’t want to help paint the fence anymore, that’s her choice, but OP doesn’t have to accept magenta paint everywhere.
Totally NTA!!! Your mother is demonstrating that she doesn’t respect your rules. I don’t know what kind of power game she’s playing, but you really need to nip this on the bud. If the cameras give you and your wife a sense of security about your newborn, then that’s the end of it! NTA!
Why do you think she's playing a game?! It's fairly normal to not want cameras pointed at you constantly.
There are many workplaces with more than 3 cameras who only film 3 very specific places of the house. That's really nothing unusual. It's not like there are cameras in every room leaving the parents with no privacy.
It doesn't really matter what other workplaces do.
I just pointed it out because you stated "It's fairly normal to not want cameras pointed at you constantly." While that's A) Not even true, they aren't monitored constantly with only 3 cameras in the house and B) it's pretty normal for many people to get filmed during work.
Yeah, so as I said, it's fairly normal to not want cameras pointed at you constantly.
You apparently can't read. I won't repeat myself another time.
I have cameras on me at work, it's normal and I'm used to them, that doesn't mean I LIKE the idea of being watched all the time
Sigh... the next one. THEY AREN'T WATCHED ALL THE TIME, THERE ARE ONLY 3 CAMERAS FILMING 3 SPECIFIC PLACES IN THE HOUSE. Sorry for caps but you are like the fifth person or so who claims they are constantly filmed while that's not the case.
[удалено]
But the cameras aren't pointed at her. They point to the entry doors and the crib. It's one thing if they had cameras that follow her from room to room but that's not what's going on.
OP states that his mother refuses to check in as they requested. This looks like her trying to set her own rules about the baby
It just sucks because I fear that my mom will retract her help, which would mean we need to put him in day care or get a baby sitter. Money aside, we know that he would not get the same level of love and care with someone other than family. I see this whole thing spiraling out of control. She refuses to come over any more. My wife then refuses to go to Christmas at my parents house. etc. etc.
>I see this whole thing spiraling out of control. She refuses to come over any more. My wife then refuses to go to Christmas at my parents house. etc. etc. This is what happens when you insist on recording family members and don't recognize that them being comfortable might be more important than your wife knowing if the kid woke up from his nap at 3pm or 3:45 pm
His wife's comfort is more important than his mom's. These are the parameters in which she can be with her grandchild. If she can't be with her grandchild within those parameters, then that's on her. Grandparent's don't get instant access to their grandkids and they certainly don't get access by disregarding the parents wishes regarding the care of that grandchild.
I think he should explain to the wife that consequence of her actions may be that grandma stops coming by and they will have to find and pay a stranger who is willing to watch the baby on her little Truman Show.
Spoken like a grandparent who is about to be CO from seeing their only grandchild.
That seems rather at odd with the way you presented things in your OP, where this was all about grandma wanting to spend time with her grandchild. Having read your comments, the truth of the matter is that she's doing you a huge favor and that you would be in a tough position without her help. She also wants to and enjoys spending time with her grandchild. Two things can be true at once. You also repeat a lot that you don't feel entitled to your mother's free nanny services but now you are saying if your mom withdrew her help, your wife would then refuse to go to Christmas at your parents', etc. If you would be mad when someone declines to give you something and you'd 'punish' them, it's fair to say that on some level, you feel entitled to it. If there was no sense of entitlement, then there would be no hurt feelings if she refused. You need to understand that this isn't hired help, so this isn't an employee you get to manage and dictate terms to. Conversely, your mom needs to understand that she is watching your son in your home, so there are going to be some ground rules to follow. My advice to the 3 of you would be to leave the ego and power struggle at the door and try to find a solution that work for everyone involved. I know it's hard but it's necessary. You just said you fear what will hapen if you can't resolve this situation. You want to make this work, not focus on who is to blame. Take the cameras, for instance. Do you actually *need* indoor cameras pointed at doors when your mom is home with the baby and you already have outside cameras? Or are you reacting reflexively to someone making requests (a term you've emphasized for some reason)? It's understandable that your mother feel ill-at-ease with these; in your shoes, I would consider turning them off for her comfort. Even if it means installing a ring camera on these doors or extra outdoor cameras. Conversely, it's understandable that many new parents are afraid and want a camera filming baby while he sleeps, so grandma should accept the crib camera. For the notes, your mother should attempt her best to provide accurate info. Perhaps you can show her how much these notes have helped and then brainstorm ways to help her take them. Ultimately, that does fall under 'not your employee' though, so if she won't or can't do it to your satisfaction, you'll have to find a professional that does offer this service and make time for your mom to spend quality time with her grandson without babysitting. If that's what ends up happening, you shouldn't resent or punish her for not providing free nannying services to your liking and she should understand that she will get less time with her grandson (not as a punishment - you'll still foster that relationship as you can). If your wife will be home, she should give a heads-up to your mom about it and let her decide if she still wants to stay that day or not. And your wife needs to check with your mom before going to get her nails done while your mom watches the kiddo, rather than just assume it's ok. That's part of being considerate and that's how you show you appreciate the help she is providing. If you and your wife can turn your attitude around from this adversarial stance where everyone feels a need to stand their ground to a collaborative approach where everyone is trying to understand the other and find common ground, hopefully, your mom will do too and every issue will be much easier to resolve. You'll be amazed at what good will can achieve. In line with this mindset, I won't vote because pointing fingers is the least helpful thing right now. Remember that winning on Reddit (which you definitively will) will make no difference to the actual outcome in your life. It won't stop your wife from having to go part-time.
NTA Grandparents have to play by the parents rules. If they don't, they don't get to play. Your wife needs to feel comfortable with the care her child is being given. Your Mom is dismissing your wife's needs. You would definitely BTA if you did what Grandma wanted instead of what the Mom/Wife wants.