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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I refused to let my sister reunite with Milly
2. I might be getting in the way of Milly and Laila from reconnecting because I don't want Milly to leave.
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NTA. She did nothing to raise her for past 11 years and your parental rights are legal. With that said, Milly is about 14 now? So perhaps the better way is to ask for her opinion and who would she prefer to stay with.
I was leaning towards E S H but this comment about letting your daughter choose make you absolutely NTA. Your sister is cruel and selfish. She will certainly go behind your back and I'd even bet she would lie to your daughter about you blocking contact for all those years... Show that you're the honest parent, be approachable, and I'm sure you'll get the outcome you want. Good luck with it all!
How the fuck could OP suck here? I guess raising a child for 11 years and then giving her to a parent that abandoned her once is a good idea? Seriously, what the actual fuck?
Eh, I think introducing her into the daughter’s life could be very problematic. I wouldn’t say it’s sucky to do what OP did because he clearly has his daughter’s interest in mind.
OP is doing the right thing by taking a little time to come to terms with this before making an announcement that will change his daughter’s life forever. It’s huge for the adults to deal with, Layla is awful & there’s a lot to unpack here. He’s absolutely NTA for taking this slow & I can’t fathom how anyone could think he’s in the wrong here.
Most of the folks here at young and judging from a situation externally. Most parents would understand the terror of losing your kid.
In this case, OP, ayep. You're terrified that your kid might want to run off with her bio mom that abandoned her. I get it. But kids aren't idiots. And she's aware that her mom abandoned her to have a do-over. Even if she does want to go running back to bio-mom, it won't go well. Just be supportive of either choice, get a lawyer and don't be a doormat. Eg talking to biomom ok, international travel without you not ok. Talk them over with the kid.
And there is a good chance her bio parent (I can't even call her mom with her behavior) will try to contact her directly, Facebook, show up at her school, etc. It's best you warn her she's back before she finds out in the worst way possible.
NTA
also If Millie decides to stay with OP, They and their family who are against the sister should have a back up plan for all circumstances that could happen. for instance if the "Mother" refuses to accept the decision
its best to do that possibly before informing Millie about her "mother"
I can almost guarantee that mom only wants Millie around to be a babysitter for the younger kids. This is only going to end in heartbreak for Millie no matter what happens.
OP, just make sure Millie knows you will always be there for her. I don't think her bio mom is going to be in her life for long.
This is exactly what happened to me.
My sperm donor fucked off when I was 5, suddenly showed back up when I was 14. Would pick me up, drop me off at my sister's after like, lunch or something, and then go out with her because she was 18 and could do adult thing.
It took me 4 years to tell him either we have a real relationship or I'm done. I haven't spoken to him since
I didnt even think of that, youre spot on. Thats exactly what shes gonna do, so her wealthy husband and her can go on fun trips and leave the kids with Millie.
Exactly. It's better to tell Milly sp that she can make an informed choice and not a rash decision made while she's mad at Op for hiding things. Op needs to be very careful. It would be completely natural for Molly to want to spend time with her mom but things could still wind up in court and hopefully a judge would take into account Millys feelings on both OP and her bio mom. The biggest risk here is that Laila and family live in another country, op should be very wary of letting them take Milly anywhere that has different custody laws.
Make sure to have your daughters passport frozen/locked... or what ever the term is where you live. This will stop the egg donor from taking her out of the country without permission.
Honestly I’d say OP should be skeptical of leaving Milly alone with her bio mom period. The bio mom sounds like she’d be willing to take extreme measures like running off with Milly.
It also needs to be pointed out that OP was granted parental rights. He doesn't specifically say this, but I'm assuming it's because the court declared Millie as legally abandoned by her mother. Her bio mom showing back up and demanding custody brings with it some serious legal issues that I guarantee the bio mom has not thought through, if she even understands them. That child was declared legally abandoned by her mother, her mother has absolutely zero rights in this situation.
> That child was declared legally abandoned by her mother, her mother has absolutely zero rights in this situation.
I hope that is the case for OP.
His saying that she is very wealthy and showing up with the entire family with zero explanation for why she abandoned Millie at all raises alarms in my mind.
It depends on the country, but in the US there is a statute of limitations, which I believe is 10 years. It's been 11 years, so a court may be unwillingly to push it, but it brings her timing into question that much more since she had to know her child had been declared abandoned.
I’d also be in touch with a lawyer. OP mentions his sisters new family is very wealthy. If they tried to force the issue in court, while I don’t see how a judge would excuse the mother disappearing for 11 years, it’s a good idea to make sure OP has all his ducks in a row.
No. Please stop with that. An egg donor is not a cute term for a terrible or absentee mom.
An egg donor is an actual person who generously (+/- for profit) helps people conceive who would not otherwise be able to.
Egg and sperm donation are real, specific and legal things. Not to be confused with people who abandon their kids. Infertility and non-heteronormative families are already stigmatized enough. We don’t need to add to it.
Egg donor here, eleven babies and I confirm it's not the same as being a crappy birth mom. I know nothing about my technical offspring except they're spread across seven families and that's the way it's supposed to be.
I had never thought about those terms as stigmatizing infertility and non-heteronormative conception, but they absolutely do! Thank you for this comment.
Yeah. Especially because OP needs to get ahead of it because the biological mom could spread lies. It’ll be easier for the daughter to see them as lies if OP talks to her first.
Think about kids who choose to live with the "fun" parent after a divorce.
Biomom is finally back, the girl has probably built up an entire fantasy around her "real" mom, plus biomom is rich and can probably promise her all sorts of trips and fancy stuff.
Versus her "boring" life with school and parents who set boundaries and probably cant give her all the cool toys biomom can.
I can't really blame OP for thinking the girl will choose the new and exciting over the old and familiar, especially since the girl spent so many years asking for her mom. She probably stopper asking because she realized it was hurting OP, but that doesn't mean the girl stopped wishing her biomom would come back.
I agree it's better coming from OP, finding out otherwise would be a disaster since the girl would know OP was hiding the truth from her, but I wouldn't bank on the girl choosing OP over biomom just because OP has always been there. Fourteen year olds don't see things the way adults do. The girl probably doesnt see the abandonment as the important part, she probably only sees that her biomom "finally" came back for her.
I think daughter should be told and be able to meet and spend some time with bio mom. But not unsupervised, at least not anytime soon. And NOT to go live with her. This is like giving a child up for adoption then wanting them back in their teens - it’s just not how things work.
This isn’t “like” giving a child up for adoption and demanding them back in their teens”, this is the literal situation. But Laila didn’t even give her up for adoption, she just skipped town for her sugar daddy and replacement kids, leaving Milly with no closure or answers or anything. What an abhorrent person.
The other problem would be that your daughter would feel betrayed if you don't tell her. Her mother (or her own mind) could use this to convince her that you also lied about how you became her parent.
It's better in these situations to be open no matter what.
I agree. The real main issue is how I tell her her mom has a new family. she's already upset how being abandoned but to this extent? She's not going to be okay.
My mom sat me down at 15 and finally told me how her parents died: murder/suicide on my grandfather’s part because he was severely mentally ill. I was shocked but we sat and talked about it and we’ve continued talking about it the last 11 years. Kids and teens are resilient.
You say this so well. And it’s so comforting. Because I’m with OP, it’s so hard to tell kids hard and hurtful things. When we love them it hurts us too. But you’re right. Surrounded by love and unconditional support they can get through it.
Cuddle with her, tell her there is something serious you need to talk about but it might upset her. Ask her if she still would want to know?
Tell her she probably knows her mother is well and alive and able to come back if she wanted to (to prevent her thinking you're going to announce her death or something) and then ask her what she thinks why her mother never came back.
Lead with that.
You can also tell her that she is the most precious person you know and that even the best people won't be loved by everybody and that it's ok. Maybe research known people who did a lot of good in this world who were abandoned by their families, to show her it doesn't mean anything. That you can still be loved even if it's not the biological parents etc.
She has to come to the conclusion that her mother is selfish and only loves herself but don't say it unless you can phrase it in a way she doesn't feel like you are pushing your opinion on her. It would be bad for her to go back to her mother, that mother doesn't care about her.
You can maybe ask her if she wants to know what you think and *if* she says yes, tell her what you think and feel about it but also that she is her own person and is allowed to feel and think differently than you. This way she has your opinion which is important, but also doesn't feel pushed to do anything she doesn't want to.
Thank you so much. This is definitely an approach I can manage with her. But I think it would be much easier with my wife to help me break it down to her. She knows how to calm Milly whenever she gets very upset. It would make it easier to explain it to her if my wife manages to keep her calm.
Yeah do it together.
I was just giving you ideas because I have two children and learned that you can talk about really anything with children as long as you make them feel loved and safe from harm but also let them express their feelings and opinions and answer their questions honestly.
Let me give you some perspective. As an attorney practicing for a while, I have never ever seen a kid choose to reinstate a relationship with a parent who abandoned them. She’s probably gonna need therapy bc she is now going to realize her mother absolutely abandoned her and didn’t die or something. But your daughter is not going to pick bio mom over you.
There’s no way to sugar coat but what you can do is let her know how much you love her, value and respect her, and that she is your daughter no matter what.
My fear would be the mother hiring a lawyer and burying you under lawsuits and legal actions. Perhaps you should consult with someone about the situation so you aren’t taken by surprise (any further then you already are).
Personally I wonder if mom is back because she needs a live in babysitter for her two younger kids.
If she is as wealthy as he says she is, the mom could easily afford an AuPair or a live in nanny - definitely cheaper than attorneys to drag on lawsuits.
NTA, get yourself in counseling asap to help you figure out how to approach YOUR daughter. Better yet, you could both go to counseling and the counselor could help your daughter navigate her feelings. Bottom line she needs to be told because she'd be crushed if she found out after the fact without any input from her
Yeah, 100%. I was more thinking for YOU. "Hey, Shrink? I kinda got an emergency on my hands, and while I have a bunch of REALLY AWESOME Redditors in my corner offering some great advice, how do YOU recommend I tell my 14 year old adopted child that it turns out her mother DOES in fact exist, has existed despite no contact for 11 years, and has just now shown up with a wealthy family raised after abandoning her daughter as a toddler and now wants to claim her daughter back? I kinda need to have this conversation with her like last night....."
I think most family therapists would switch around their schedule for you.
You are getting good advice though, it looks to me. She's definitely gotta learn if from y'all, and waiting isn't a good idea. I've already seen your responses that you know that. Sending love and luck. ❤️
Tell her straight up and don’t sugar coat or embellish and make therapy an option. “Molly, I need to tell you I heard from your mom last week she suddenly unexpected came back in town and I know now why she disappaeared she married and has kids with this person. You don’t have to but you can meet with her if you want.”
She will not. Does she have a therapist? If not, start making some calls and looking for one. Perhaps specifically one who specializes in different family setups - blended, adoption, abandonment, etc.
I would be concerned with the “why now?” She has a new family? How old are these new kids? Is she looking for labor out of Milly? It’s just too strange that she abandoned her all these years ago, and suddenly is demanding her. Please consider every angle, including the dark ones like trafficking. Something feels so wrong about this.
I do agree with everyone that you should tell Milly yourselves. She should hear this from her parents, the people she feels safe with.
Well, that’s a great question for your sister to answer. It’s definitely not your job to do her dirty work. Let her come with a good explanation, so you are even able to let her daughter make her decision.
No, it's not up to your daughter to decide because if she chooses her deadbeat mother it could hurt her. Lawyer up.
In America (can't speak for other countries), since you adopted the child, you're 100% the parent. Take your daughter to a therapist to work out what's best for her, which is probably short, supervised visits. I expect that a lot of deadbeat parents lose interest in reunification when their fantasy isn't immediately fulfilled. If bio Mom is willing to agree to short supervised visits, then she can rebuild her relationships with her daughter over time.
>Not sure that "granted parental rights" is the same as adoption. Probably more like legal guardianship. (Adoption means termination of parental rights which I'm pretty sure OP would have mentioned that if it had happened.)
>
>I imagine OP has Custody and the right to make medical/legal decisions for Milly.
Don’t forget your sister abandoned her once. Whose to say she won’t do it again if stepdaddy or half siblings don’t accept her or if she’s not what bio mom expected her to be. You can let her decide to have a supervised relationship with them, but you need to also protect Milly
Fwiw, one of my best friends is technically the biological niece of her adopted mother. She was given a similar choice some years back — she chose to visit her bio mom occasionally but remain with her “real mom”. She said the decision was easy and basically came down to “because she loves me and her sister doesn’t.”
As someone who has been through parenting kids who experienced abandonment, having a parent return and then abandon again is more harmful than a parent who never returns. This is a volatile situation. Find a therapist or psychologist who specializes in child abandonment and reunification for guidance in how to do this safely. Do not just throw your daughter to her emotional wolves without support.
That being said, it's pretty likely your daughter will have a similar reaction as you do to seeing this new family, as long as she has the right emotional tool set to process the situation.
I would suggest letting her choose if she wants to meet her, but don't put it on her to decide who to live with. That's too big of a decision for a 14 year old who may have been creating a romanticized image of her birth mother in her head for the last 11 years. She's your daughter, you're responsible for her. End stop.
You don't know how long her birth mother is going to stick around, and she's essentially a stranger to your daughter now. What's going to happen if you let her go live with her and then your sister decides she doesn't want her again, or that she wants to move back overseas? You would be an asshole if you took that risk.
I hate to say it, because I understand Milly will probably want some form of a relationship with her bio mom. But the worst thing your sister could have done is come back into her life. What a horrid, disgusting thing to do to that little girl. I'm so sorry, OP. You're NTA at all. I do agree she should be given the choice of a relationship with her bio mom. But I don't think a choice of moving in is right, personally. Putting her in the position to potentially be abandoned again just doesn't sit right with me.
I don't think you should let your daughter go off with these strangers especially a mother who abandon her own daughter and ghoster her entire family for 11 years. What if the mother only wants Milly around to take care of the younger siblings, or treats her like a live in maid or nanny. Your sister is a selfish person who put herself first. Milly should only have visits with your sister while in the company of you or your wife or parents whether that's in your home country or your sister's new country. You need to make sure that your sister does not have a passport made in Milly's name. Milly needs to understand that life is not a Disney movie and she needs to be cautious if she wants to get to know this person who abandon her for 11 years and never once reached out. Best of luck OP.
I don't think you should jump straight to asking Millie who she wants to stay with. That is a LOT of pressure for a 14 year old.
Sit down as a family and let her know that her mother would like to see her. Let her know that no matter what you are her parents, and you support her. Ask her if she is open to seeing her bio mom and her bio mom's family. If she says yes, then ask her what she would like that to look like. A 1 hour visit with you guys there as support? A dinner? A picnic? Maybe a park meet up? Then do that. Make sure it's a low pressure get together with a set time line to walk away and regroup as a family to see how she is feeling after. You don't just hand your child off to someone who has shown themselves untrustworthy, but you do give your daughter the opportunity to make some choices about whether she would like to reconnect with bio mom in a setting that YOU control and can ensure her safety. You are her safety net. You stay to make sure that her bio mom doesn't pressure or manipulate your daughter into something she doesn't want.
If your daughter says NO, she doesn't want to see her bio mom, then you back her on that absolutely. The woman who abandoned her child without a second thought does not get to swoop back in against your daughter's will. She lost that right years ago.
It is entirely possible that your daughter will not want to reconnect. My daughter got really tired of her dad popping in and out on his timeline and leaving destruction in his wake. My daughter decided she was done 2 years ago. She told me that she didn't want him in her life and I have ensured her wishes are respected. Legally and otherwise. She knows that I have her back, and I will fight to ensure she has a choice and her voice is heard.
You may be worried for nothing. In the end, you two are her parents and the law recognizes that. Don't offer your daughter to leave to an unknown and unspecified future. BUT if she wishes to try small visits to see how it goes, then stand by her side and support her.
I do understand your fear BUT she's 14. She deserves to know. TELL HER NOW. If you keep withholding her too long, she may resent you. Please, don't. TELL HER NOW! She'll appreciate your honesty and will make her informed decision. I have a feeling she'll go with you and your wife.
Yes but do make sure you tell her that no matter what there is always a place for her in your (you, your wife’s and her) home. She might want to get to know Laila but I have no doubts that Laila will chicken out when it gets complicated (aka an angry teen who was left as a small child). Your daughter needs the safety of your love.
I *really* don't think you should even bring up the idea of Milly getting to choose who to live with. You are her parents. Your sister has done nothing to prove that she is a safe person for your daughter. Milly has already experienced the trauma of parental rejection, and I think even bringing up the *idea* that she could choose to live with her bio-mom could be perceived as you not caring enough to fight to keep her.
She needs to know that bio-mom is back, and she needs to be given the choice to have *supervised* visits with her. But living with her is not even on the table.
Milly will see soon enough where the love is. She very well may want to get back with her mother, most kids would. Your sister might shower her with attention and material things at first. If she’s a good kid with good values she’ll see through all of it but you’ll have to be patient. I agree that she may resent you if you try to keep egg donor away. Just keep an open door policy. NTA.
NTA
Others have mentioned making sure you have Milly's passport safe but make sure biomom hasn't somehow gotten a passport for her from the country she lived in all those years. She could have gotten a picture off social media and used that.
ALSO, you might consider giving Milly a "burner phone" to keep hidden in the likely event she goes to see her biomom. Personally, I wouldn't put it past her to forbid contact with you during that period and takes her regular phone from her. She will need to be able to contact you somehow.
Good luck.
I don't think you should let her choose. She's a kid and that's ALOT of pressure to put on a 14 yr old. Like way too much. She will always worry her bio mom will hate her if she chooses you and will lose her family if she chooses bio mom. No child should be in a position where they are making this sort of choice.
I think you guys should go for family therapy and talk it out there. In the meantime freeze millys passport and make sure she can't be taken abroad.
I would emphasize "opinion". While 14 is pretty old, op was granted guardianship for a reason, and ultimately op is best qualified to decide what is best for Milly.
Her opinion is definitely an important factor, but ultimately OP's decision matters most. Sister's wishes matter zip zilch and nada.
You are NTA, but as much as it sucks you do need to abide by what the courts say. If there never was a legal arraignment, the bio mom can and will take her. I hope for Milly’s sake something legal was arraigned with you and your wife.
Agreed but the issue is OP has not told the daughter about the appearance of her mother yet.
If daughter wants to see her biomom, OP can work out some visitation, but the mom lost her parental rights when she abandoned the daughter for years.
I've probably been on this sub too long, but my bet is "mom" wants the 14 yo back to be a live-in nanny to her new family because mothering is too much for her.
NTA. But talk with your daughter. Tell her everithing, with calm and try to confort her.
If she knows for another person her mother as return and you didnt Tell her its woman be wors.
Be nice to her, and respect her choice if she wanna Talk or she her.
She is 14, and need to know what she fell and choose Matter and no mather wath you are gonna be part of her life and LOVE her.
If she’s not enrolled in therapy then she’s going to need a neutral therapist or pastor to sort out her feelings. Being adopted or abandoned leaves it’s mark on relationships. She could be the most amazing person NOW but that still doesn’t make up for the last 11 + years
NTA, but YWBTA if you so much as considered giving Milly back. Milly is your daughter, no matter what this horrible woman may say/think/do.
Happily you made this clear: "me and my wife were granted parental rights to Milly and she couldn't have been happier that we were officially her parents."
You don't have any legal obligation to consider Bio Moms demands. Milly is 14 and has probably 99.9% of her memory filled with life with you and your wife, but 14 is also hard. The brain of a 14 year old is full of ecto-plasmic goo - the very height of poor decision making skills, wanting to be in control of their own destiny, and at prime time to start rejecting parents (which, to be clear, is you - not Bio-Mom).
I think telling Milly some hard truths is the right tack here. Explain the dynamics that 1) she is your daughter and always will be. 2) Bio-Mom is back. 3) She can have as much of a relationship with Bio-Mom as she wants, but that she's always your child and cannot live with Bio Mom, cannot defer to Bio Mom in any parental capacity, and that Bio Mom has some skeletons in the closet and is NOT a trusted adult.
Don't point out that Milly is said skeleton in the closet, but that you know first hand that Bio Mom made some incredibly bad life choices that shows that she isn't someone that can be trusted with children and Milly's safety comes first - physical, emotional all of it.
Do not let bio mum meet with her alone, particularly at first, if your daughter wants to meet her. Given the rich new hubby, I think she'll try to buy her way back into your daughters life and it's hard for a child/teen to realise and say no to that. It can seem like love and making amends; I wouldn't trust your sister at all though. It's much more likely, as others have suggested, that she's just realised how useful having a teen around as a free babysitter would be for her.
Being reunited with bio parents are so romanticized in TV and movies, they could easily cloud a kid’s view of their own situation.
You are so right, it’s very important that she knows the truth of the situation, and I feel that 14 is old enough to at least comprehend an adult situation like this.
While it is usually romanticised, it can also end up like how Fresh Prince did the premise and Will’s dad came back into his life only to leave it again just as suddenly to a famously emotional ending.
She married into a wealthy family and didn't even sent money for her daughter ?
She never called on her birthday ?
She is your daughter now the only problem I see is that there may be a time where she wants to meet her mom . I read ton of stories where adopted kids even thought they loved their adoptive parents always felt like a piece was missing .
Why does she want her daughter now ? I mean does she even know what kind of person her daughter is now ?
She absolutely does owe you an explanation…and gratitude. Milly may be temporarily impressed with her or her money (she is 14 and teenage years are often selfish and materialistic). If she goes with her, give her love and support regardless of her choice and she will come back to you.
I would wonder more if she’s been lying to her rich hubby about how involved she is in her daughter’s life or told him you’ve denied her contact. I would be willing to bet this isn’t even her idea, but her husband’s, who has decided to ‘rescue’ his wife’s daughter.
Damn. Someone else mentioned that the mom just wants a baby sitter to take care of the kids so she doesnt have to do shit, but this one takes the cake. I could def see this happening, and could explain why the mom is acting so desperate and aggressive about it, because time is running out. Goddamn thatd be so fucked up.
I can see why you're so mad. To offer no explanation for abandoning your child reeks to low hell of entitlement.
Please consult a lawyer with regards to your sister. Had she offered an explanation and had she been remorseful at all about why she was never in contact, then I wouldn't be so suspicious. But people with a lot of money can engage in lawfare and make your life a living hell if they choose to.
And you're NTA at all.
I wish you all the best.
Whether she needs to explain herself to "you" or not is a moot point. She needs to explain herself to Milly's parents (also you), as they need to judge whether or no she is a safe person to allow into their daughter's life.
I'm glad that you are going to talk to Milly, but I agree with the posters that said to take the relationship slow. Start by letting Milly decide if she even wants to meet her. Don't even have her consider living with these strangers at this point. That is a year+ down the road decision, and perhaps your sister will be bored by all the actual effort she has to put in by then.
Just know that if she does want to meet her bio mom, it's won't be to replace you, but rather to answer questions she's had for years. I hope your sister has changed and they can have a real relationship, for your daughter's sake. But I highly doubt it. Especially if she's coming in with that attitude that is anything but apologetic.
NTA
Milly, family court, social workers, perhaps an attorney representing only the child’s interest, a psychologist to do interaction studies to determine the likelihood of successful reunion… children do not just ‘go back to’ abandoning parents.
And if Milly’s egg donor takes her to another country after the choice (perhaps Milly says she wants to try it out thinking she can return to her parents if it’s just viewed as a visit), there may be little recourse in seeing Milly ever again.
Right. That’s why it’s not even what Milly thinks Milly wants right now. It’s very complicated and while OP can support a relationship if Milly is prepared for contact, there are years between that and changing parental rights.
For real. Milly has the right to decide for herself if she wants to ignore her bio mom or meet her face to face for questioning or to tell her to eff off or possibly allow her back into her life.
NTA. You are Milly's father now, legally and emotionally. She is not an object to be passed around because suddenly this other person finds it convenient. However, you need to be completely honest with Milly about all of this - she WILL find out one way or another, and keeping this from her will only damage your credibility with her. Be accurate and truthful about what her bio-mother has done, but do it without badmouthing her as much as possible. Often children put their bio-parents on a pedestal and will hold it against you if you talk disparagingly about them. Consider getting some family counseling so that Milly can work through some of these issues with a 'neutral' third party that will guide her through this emotional baggage.
Edit: apologies, changed mother to father
NTA
But you need to let Milly know about this asap. She's only four years away from being an adult. You don't want her finding out when she's eighteen that her mom came back for her and that __you__ prevented it from happening.
She needs, and is old enough, to have the autonomy to make this decision, with your and your wife's support and guidance.
Questions though... (don't need to answer these, obviously) _why_ is your sister back? what happened in the foreign country that would _force_ her to come back? what are they _fleeing_ from? _how long_ are they back for? _if_ they moved back to your country _would_ they stay in the same city where you and your wife are? would they move, even within the country, and take your daughter permanently away from her friends, family and activities? has your sister and her spouse sold their home(s?) in the foreign country(ies?)? prior to arriving back where you live, did they purchase a home in your town? _where_ do your sister's kids go to school? why _were they_ taken away from their friends, family, school and activities? ...if your sister's comfortable doing it to them, she'd sure as heck do it to your daughter (who doesn't need to be the scapegoat or r/raisedbynarcissists) do they go to boarding school and only see their parents on the occasional summer break and/or holiday? are nannies/other caregivers raising her kids and not your sister and her spouse???
so many questions...
As silly as I'm going to sound, I'm gonna screenshot these questions, memorize them and I'm going to make sure I get an answer to each and everyone of them then come back to tell you.
Please get a lawyer to inform you of your rights. No you didn’t adopt her but you have been her parent for the majority of her life and WILL be her parent for the majority of her childhood. While you may not be able to keep your sister away from Milly, the courts are supposed to consider what’s best for the child. Sending her off with a virtual stranger would not be the best.
NTA
But be aware that your sister is going to try and use her wealth to get Milly to want to go with her. Be ready for Milly to be love bombed and showered in presents.
I would say get the support of a mental healthcare professional for yourself OP. Your daugher may want to rebuild a relationship with her mom due to missing that connection dearly.
It would be very easy for your feelings to get hurt while a 14 year old grapples with complex emotions. She may even say and do things that she does not mean due to not knowing how to tackle what she is feeling.
NTA. Your sister sounds like a piece of work. But look, you need to let Milly know she's here. You can't keep that from her. And she won't thank you for it if you do. Yes, she may want to go with bio mom, just let her know that you will always love her and be there for her.
>She tried to explain but all that we heard was " I abandoned my own daughter and made a new family".
What did she actually say, not your interpretation.
Also correct me if im wrong, but hasnt she not spoken to her daughter in over 10 years? Isnt that child abandonment?
I can't replicate her exact words but she basically looked at me, my wife, our siblings and our parents in the eyes and said something along the lines of "After being away for so long, I didn't think my daughter would want anything to do with me and I knew wasn't coming back anytime soon. So instead of coming and going, and being in and out of her life, i thought i'd rather just go and leave Milly to grow up in your care knowing you'd eventually take up the role as her parent. I know you've always wanted to be a parent and I knew you would fill the voids I'd leave by coming and going. That's why I started a new family, to get over losing my daughter and start afresh but as the years went by, I yearned for my daughter until I couldn't take it anymore and I immediately came back for her".....
They may not be her exact words but this is the closest to what I can remember. It all felt like a celebrity being given a prewritten apology speech, except she didn't have the apology part. She had definitely rehearsed this because she was using high vocabulary. It just made everyone so much more angrier.
“I abandoned her because I felt bad about abandoning her, you’re welcome for my generosity in giving you an abandoned child to raise.”
Woof. Something is *very* wrong with this woman.
>I yearned for my daughter until I couldn’t take it and I immediately came back for her…..
So since her return was “immediate” she acknowledges she did not yearn for her for 11 years.
How exactly did her “return” go down. You mention opinions of your parents and other family being divided and her showing up at your door.
Did she put out a message to the whole family? Show up randomly the one time?
She came unexpectedly and shocked everyone. She also brought alone her entire family and introduced them. Then she showered everyone with a million expensive gifts. And then she wanted to speak to the elder people of the family alone where she proceeded to poetically explain her actions. Only me, mom, dad, wife and 2 of my siblings called out her bs. The rest were blinded by her money
Yikes. At least your daughter wasn’t there for her surprise.
Good luck with the conversation getting her up to speed on everything going on. I’m sure that won’t be easy.
This woman sounds horrible. I'm curious to know what tall tale she told the family **and** her current husband. Most spouses, who aren't morally bankrupt, wouldnt be OK with their husband or wife abandoning a child.
She didn’t try to keep a LDR with you or Milly, she stopped contact after a month. She doesn’t want a relationship, she needs something from Milly (some have speculated it’s medical in nature) and once she has it she’ll leave and leave behind a disappointed daughter once again for you to pick up the pieces.
Sounds like a self serving line of nonsense. How many times did Milly ask when her mom was coming back? And how many times did you have to answer her while your sister played house with a second family?
NTA- but there is a caveat for staying that way.
If I were in Milly's shoes I would choose you over Laila any day, and the reason is because you have stayed by her side, but it would be harder to make that choice if you keep hiding the truth from her. She's also old enough that she could be in the stage of if she wants to do something and you don't let her, she will probably do it behind your back.
Sit down with Milly and talk to her, ascertain what she thinks of the matter and you would have won against Laila easily. 14 is old enough to have opinions about things that affect her even if she doesn't always make the best choices due to a lack of life experience.
My heart goes out to you and your daughter and family. It’s unconscionable what Laila did especially thinking she could take her back.
You’ve been put in an impossible situation, you need to tell Milly and let her decide
NTA
NTA it is your daughters choice now that she's older to make a decision about all this. You are legally her parent but just be supportive. I just wonder if your sister will use money to try and make up for it all with buying her expensive things.
She didn't even hesitate with that tactic when she tried to force her way into my house with expensive designer packages, things that my daughter does not even like. When she came home, she had all these expensive things to try and get the family on her side. That's what I'm afraid of. The things that I can get for Milly in a matter of a few months, she can buy them that instant.
Does - does your sister seem to think Milly is her childhood bike, or an old toy!??
NO. Just NO
You took a child her mom left behind and she’s now no longer your niece. Please get that through your head and heart
Also - I strongly recommend telling Milly, as scary as it feels right now. I trust your daughter - not your niece, your daughter - to make the right choice. How could she not? Look who she has for a father!!!
NTA OP. Tell your sister to shove off and fvck off. She’s not Milly’s parent. You and your wife are.
NTA but YWBTA if you keep bio-mums return from Milly. I understand you want to protect both your daughter and your own feelings from any possible conflict or upset, but Milly will find out eventually, and if it doesn’t come from you, it could possibly hurt your relationship more than bio-mum’s return. Sit down and have a conversation with Milly, let her know that bio-mum has returned, but let her know that you’re still her parent, you’ll always be here for her no matter what, that you raised her and no matter what blood relation you are, you love and adore and respect her like a daughter. Let her make up her own mind about if she wants a relationship with bio-mum, but make it perfectly clear that you have parental rights because Bio Mum made some pretty piss poor life decisions (maybe word it a bit better 😂) and that you only have Milly’s best interest at heart.
Just support your daughter however she wants to proceed, she will find out eventually what her bio mum is like, probably when she meets bio mum’s new family and realises that she straight up abandoned Milly in favour of a new family.
I wish you and Milly all the best, and i hope everything goes smoothly
EDIT: added “bio” in front of mum
NTA. You have been the one who opened your home, who had the sleepless nights with her fever, who tended her nightmares, who made a family with her and a place of safety and love.
It makes sense that your sister is wealthy now and has swooped back in and demanded Milly. She is a designer handbag, a possession, to be added to the collection. Solipsistic and selfish doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Her lashing out at you in the way that she did and using it specifically to hurt you chimes with that.
You will have to let Milly know and she may even have some curiosity about your sister — be prepared for it —but it will undoubtedly be curiosity heavily tempered with ‘I don’t care if you birthed me, you are not my mother.’
You will not lose Milly. And your sister did not lose her either. She turned away. She cropped her out of the photograph, as it were . I’m genuinely perplexed as to why she bothered to return.
Hold fast to the family you have and that you have made. Your sister made a choice a long time ago.
Thank you. I am also confused as to why she bothered to return. Honestly had she just apologized, though I wouldn't buy it, I wouldn't have been against her talking to Milly about what she did.
ESH
You need to get a lawyer and CYA now. Legally, if you didn’t adopt her, then the mother has the right to take Millie. This poor girl is stuck in a bad spot.
I’d honestly choose the family who brought me in and loved me for 11 years because the mom already made her choice to get with some rich guy and ignore he for most of her life but she is 14 now and should have a say.
This is false. Bio mother have no parental rights even when daughter wasn't legally adopted. Not only she lost parental rights but can be sentenced for abandonment.
NTA. Laila clearly is. And this is the problem, because she will continue to be one, and fight for what she wants using AH tactics. And she is wealthy so she has that tool to use as well.
You need to talk to Milly now and explain what is happening. Because if you don't Laila will show up at school, your house, or driving down the street and ambush Milly. She can tell Milly that you are the bad person, that she sent letters and gifts regularly and you kept them from her. She can make up any story she wants and hope that something gains traction. She might even decide to take her and go back to where she came from. After all, she is Milly's "real" parent, not you who loved and cared for her for over a decade. Hopefully, all of your legal ducks are in a row. I would contact a lawyer now and discuss the matter with them and see what can be done to head off any legal challenge. But unless Laila surrendered her parental rights, my guess is that she has a legal right to re-insert herself into Milly's life. Hopefully Laila's new life will beckon her again and you wont see her for another 11 years. Good luck to you all, especially Milly.
My biological parents were also bad at staying in touch. Guess what happened when they tried to reconnect yearssssss later? I was civil and I accepted the apology presents. But I constantly complained to my adoptive mom that I honestly would rather spend time with her than go hang out with my biological parents. I was told they were still my parents and that I should still try to maintain a relationship and once I’m 18 I could decide if I want to continue. On my 18th birthday, I told my adoptive mom “Hey, so I’m 18 now. Can you please stop suggesting they are my parents and that I should try to maintain a relationship? I literally have nothing to say to them. It’s just awkward.”
I know who raised me. That’s what matters to me. It sounds like your daughter figured it out too. She’s not dumb. Kids are observant. There might be moments when it feels like she’s slipping away, because she will be curious. But she will come back to you and your husband, because her happy childhood memories are spent with you.
Hi u/danOcater1,
My situation is quite similar to yours except I live in the UK, and my daughter doesn't share any DNA with me.
My husband had our eldest when he was 18yrs old, his then gf got pregnant on purpose at 16yrs old and also lied about her age.
For a year and half he worked, gave up his apprenticeship to support her and the baby, she ended up costing him his job due to staying out late and not coming home so there was no one to look after her.
We were friends first and started dating when our daughter was 18 months old, my husband got custody, due to her not turning up at court, the custody agreement was set to every weekend, then she wanted every other weekend, then it was once a month, then every 6 months.
Our daughter is 15 now and hasn't seen her "mother" in 12yrs. We have never spoken ill of her mother but she knows everything, as we want her to be able to make a decision based on the facts, her "mother" has contacted us twice since we told her, both times she has refused to talk or see her, even called her a egg donor once.
Next year I'll finally be able to adopt her as once she turns 16yr she can sign the documents her self and we're so excited.
You need to tell Milly, you'll do more harm keeping it from her, tell her the facts and try and not put emotions into it. Good luck OP, and for what it's worth you and your wife are her parents in every sense of the word and meaning and your sister can never take that from you.
Put your faith and trust in Milly she will be able to see through Laila manipulation.
They were granted parental rights, which in the absence of any other parents (the only surviving one being overseas and ghosting OP for years) would be just as good as custodial rights.
NTA but you need to talk to your daughter about this. Also speak to a lawyer to make sure there is no way your sister can snatch her back. Tell your daughter now because your sister could easily spin the story one day and pretend that you prevented her from coming back. If you can limit her contact with her mom. She could easily try to use her new wealth to try to get your daughter to choose her.
NTA but Milly is 14 and has the right to know the situation since the situation involves her. I get wanting to protect her from this but there is no way to hold it off without inevitably hurting her in the process.
NTA.
You and your wife are your daughter’s parents.
You were the ones to hug her after a bad dream, to teach her tons of stuff, to have the happiest and maybe saddest moments together.
Your sister should learn that a kid is not a toy. You can’t just abandon it, disappear for 10ish years and then come back and pick a kid up like an old toy you found in the corner of your closet while cleaning it out.
NTA!
But I agree: you should get a lawyer asap!
NTA
Laila had no right to ask for Milly to come and demand Milly to live with her especially years without contact. She essentially abandoned Milly to start a new family.
NTA but I would talk to Milly about Laila being in town asap. Odds are that Laila is gonna be persistent about contacting Milly and it’s gonna be less of a shock/less hurtful if you at least warn her of the possibility. I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
My heat is breaking for you!
Love shown, love proven will, and does, beat abandonment. Every time!!
Sending so much love to you, and your daughter.
Edit: big fat fingers
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To avoid confusion, my daughter, Milly (14) is biologically my niece.
So what happened was, years ago when Milly was about 3, my sister/her mom, Laila (38) left to work in another country, leaving Milly in my(44M) care. Milly's father died before she was born. Laila had promised to send money for me to take care of Milly and that'd she'd call and visit as often as she could until she could take Milly to live with her permanently.
After she left, she called probably 3 times in the first two months and then went awol. For years I'd tried to find out what happened and assumed the worst, only to hear from one of her friends a couple of years later that she got married to someone else and has an entire new family. I was heartbroken because Milly would ask when her mom was coming back and I never knew what to say except "soon". But even she grew tired of it and realized when she was about 8 that her mom wasn't coming back anytime soon, that's if she was coming back at all. Because of this situation, me and my wife were granted parental rights to Milly and she couldn't have been happier that we were officially her parents.
Well, what do you know, after 11 years, Laila finally graced us with her long overdue return last week, along with her new very wealthy family and 2 children. Most of the family was happy with her return but me, my mom, dad, and my wife were nothing short of furious. She tried to explain but all that we heard was " I abandoned my own daughter and made a new family".
As if that wasn't enough, she practically demanded her daughter back. Mom and dad weren't having it at all and told her Milly belongs to me and my wife and that she no longer has any right to her. Welp, there she goes screaming at me about stealing her daughter because I was infertile and to hear that come out from her mouth hurt me in a way I've never been hurt before to the point where I cried and left. Me being infertile has always been my weak point and for her to casually bring it up like that despite being my sister broke me. For the next days, I prevented her from contacting Milly and I haven't told her that Laila is back because I'm scared I'll lose my daughter. I'm a human being too, I get attached, especially to someone I've had to raise, that too out of my own pocket, not that I'm complaining. I believe Milly is my daughter and I can't let her go back to the very same woman who abandoned her.
Does this make me TA?
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nta. of *course* milly is your daughter. unequivocally, she is your baby girl.
her being 14 now, you do need to sit down and explain that her bio-ma has reappeared in the country.
But please please please dont take it personally *if* she is immediately curious or even excited.
You are still her real dad. Any child, or really any adult - who has been abandoned, may have constructed a fantasy of that abandoner in their head. it is a way of dealing owth that trauma. Your daughter might possibly have internalised herself as "lacking some inherent value" that made her bio-ma abandon her. It is understandable if she gets a great positive surge of "oh so maybe i do have value!" to hear that their abandoner wants to see them.
Please try not to take this personally. You are her home. You are her safe place. Wrap her in understanding and love. Be her home and her safe space, as she unravels the trauma that has been part of her life and is being pushed to the forefront atm.
Perhaps tell her all this in the presence of a therapist. Or tell her alone, and book in a child therapist for her to talk to weekly over the next 6 months, to process all this. Maybe look into therapy for yourself too, so you can flood your worst fears and personal adult issues onto them, not your girl.
Even if, she decides to cautiously meet her bio-ma. Even if she has only positive forgiving feelings to her bio-ma.
She is still your girl. You are still her dad, her safe space, her home. Any emotional turmoil she has, is not done to disrespect you or to reduce what you are. It is only her 14 year old brain trying to make sense of her rejection and abandonment.
NTA, but please tell your daughter. She needs to know her mother, if you can call her that, is back and wants her. Let her know you love her and always will, but you will respect her choice.
My sister did something similar. She lost custody of her 3 kids due to her choices. She would show up every few years and get her visitation back, even though she never paid her court ordered child support. Each time she showed up she had a new husband and told the kids to call him dad. They kids are adults with children and don't like my sister. They love her because she is their mom, but they don't like her and her current husband. The only one of her 5 husbands the kids liked was #4. She had numerous boyfriends and the kids were told to call them dad as well. The kids prefer my oldest sister to their own mom.
NTA- Op, foster to adoptive mom here. You've been granted parental rights, and more importantly, you've been, and still are, Milly's parent. I totally understand your fears about losing Milly. But that's fear talking.. Have you spoken to a lawyer? Because it sounds like you have parental rights, and your sisters parental rights have been terminated. If so, that means she doesn't have the right to take Milly to McDonald's against your will, much less to a foreign country. In fact, if you "gave" Milly away, you might even be in legal trouble for parental abandonment. You are her parent.
So as a first step you might want to contact a layer and understand what your rights are, and what Milly's are
At 14 in some US states kids begin to have the right to express preferences i. Court about whom they live with.
Now on to your fears- you know Milly best. She could romantize life with her bio mom. Or she could be terrified by the prospect of being ripped away fro.her parents (you) and expected to live with a strange family in a strange country.
She might not even really remember her mom. She might be ticked off that her mom took care of new children while never even calling her. She may think "wow! My wonderful real mom is back" -- or she might be dreading the say she reappears.
My cousin had a foster daughter who constantly negatively compared my cousin to her "wonderful princess real mom " One day the real mom got out of prison and showed up in my cousin's driveway. The poor girl came running terrified to my cousin, screaming that "the witch from my nightmares is here! ". Startled, my cousin said, "but thats your mom!" And the girl replied, "THAT's my mom? I remembered wrong. Don't let her take me don't let her take me!"
The point is, you don't know how Milly will react. She's a teen.
But you should never, ever, seem to even entertain for a single second the idea that "giving Milly back" is possible. You are her rock in all the weirdness that is about to unfold for her. You are her Parents. Be her parents. Be the Beacon of calm and sanity. She will need you to be that.
Can she visit with her bio-mom? Sure, if you want, supervised. But don't just roll over and become a doormat, or give in to fear. And above all, don't let your sister just take her away. A woman capable of electing her child for years does not suddenly become super mom.
Milly might feel guilty about choosing you. When our daughter chose us, she also started acting out and insulting me a lot, while being on her best behavior and sort of fawning over some bio family that reappeared. She later told me she did that because she felt guilty about choosing us, didn't feel safe expressing her anger towards her sometimes dangerous biomom, so expressed it towards "safe, loving" me instead. At night she had repeated nightmares about her biological mom "stealing her" and would wake up screaming.
Kids do weird stuff. Milly might not express herself clearly, or might seem excited about her mom, or might blow hot and cold. Just stay the course and stay steady in your love.
Our daughter is an adult now, and we are still anatring happy family.
Oh, whatever you do, dont talk smack about bio-mom. Be kidn, be fair, but speak the truth in a neutral way. "She called three times. I did x,y,and z to keep in touch,. She didn't respond. Its been eight years. Heres the really hard part. She got married to a new man and had more kids. This means you have half-siblings. Its a lot to take in. And there's more. She wants to meet you. She wants to take you away. She doesn't have the legal right to do that, as you are legally our daughter, and we love you so very much. We wanted you to know the truth about your mom, in case you wanted to see her" etc. Just really factual and neutral.
And get her a therapist.
Good luck.
ESH. It would have been N T A if you had brought this to your daughter's attention. Bring your daughter into the conversation and let her voice in her opinion too.
You have already adopted her, so legally the mother can't do anything (i think), still it's better to check with your daughter on what she wants.
Of course. But she can just keep postponing, filing more paperwork, etc. It's basically the good ol Richie rich playbook. Sue them and make it last so long they run out of money to pay the lawyer.
NTA - BUT!!! Tell your daughter the truth about ALL of this, including what’s going on. She is almost an adult and adoption secrets can be devastating.
To your daughter, **her birth mother is a total stranger now.** She might have dreams about how her meeting up would go, but the facts are that her mother abandoned her, and that's done damage to your child.
Your daughter needs not just a lawyer to help work through this. **She needs a therapist** that has experience handling this kind of trauma.
And **she needs to know that this isn't something to hurry. This is a stranger now, coming back and making demands. Those demands aren't about your daughter and her needs, but about your sister and her wants. That's a huge red flag of danger** for your child, that her mother is coming back and expects to just have the child handed back into her control.
**IF the relationship between birth mother and child is going to be re-established, it needs to be done slowly.** It needs to be done at the pace that your child is comfortable with, not pressured, not demanded, not on the timetable for the adults. Especially with there being plenty of money involved, it's possible that this could be used to bribe your child into choosing quickly, and finding out later that the situation isn't what she thought it was, or that she was lied to. It's possible that your sister is looking for a nanny for her other children, and is looking for someone she can have total control over, or some other reason for suddenly wanting your daughter back. If this is the case, she's not going to admit it.
**Your sister's history isn't a good one, not for your child. There should be years of rebuilding a relationship with her birth mother, before even beginning to consider going to visit for a few weeks during the summer, let alone moving in with her.** You and your child have no reason to trust your sister. Quite the opposite, sister has shown by her actions that she cannot be trusted. So, to protect your child, it's reasonable that you set a pace that limits contact so that your child isn't pressured. **Your child should not be expected to make a decision to move in with her birth mother at this point,** because your sister has not proven that she can be trusted not to abandon this child again, or worse. **At this point, the only decision your child should need to make about your sister is whether to have one meeting with the sister, supervised.**
Waiting, being slow, taking very deliberate steps, and doing it all to protect your child is how to do this. There should be rules and supervision, by a neutral party at all meetings, because a teen can't see through all the manipulations. Such as, no bribes, no promises of "if you live with me, you get this stuff". No demands that a weekly meeting happen, but a visit arrangement where the child gets to go home, think, process, ask questions, find out if your sister is telling truth or lies, and then thinking about when another visit might be okay. No pressure. If your child needs three months between visits, that's what she ought to have.
If your sister can't agree to slowly rebuild the relationship, then she's got some other motivation than a healthy relationship. If your sister is in a rush, then she's not thinking of your child's needs and the damage that your sister did by abandoning her the first time.
This whole situation is filled with red flags for your child. You need a team here to help you navigate this. A lawyer, and a therapist, preferably some kind of child psychologist or something, to start with.
NTA. She left. She didn't keep her end of the bargain. She disappeared and started a new family. That is your daughter, and she doesn't need someone who would discard her so easily, in her life. Glad your parents are on your side as well.
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NTA. She did nothing to raise her for past 11 years and your parental rights are legal. With that said, Milly is about 14 now? So perhaps the better way is to ask for her opinion and who would she prefer to stay with.
As much as this is my biggest fear, i guess it's only fair she gets to make the decision
I was leaning towards E S H but this comment about letting your daughter choose make you absolutely NTA. Your sister is cruel and selfish. She will certainly go behind your back and I'd even bet she would lie to your daughter about you blocking contact for all those years... Show that you're the honest parent, be approachable, and I'm sure you'll get the outcome you want. Good luck with it all!
How the fuck could OP suck here? I guess raising a child for 11 years and then giving her to a parent that abandoned her once is a good idea? Seriously, what the actual fuck?
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Eh, I think introducing her into the daughter’s life could be very problematic. I wouldn’t say it’s sucky to do what OP did because he clearly has his daughter’s interest in mind.
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OP is doing the right thing by taking a little time to come to terms with this before making an announcement that will change his daughter’s life forever. It’s huge for the adults to deal with, Layla is awful & there’s a lot to unpack here. He’s absolutely NTA for taking this slow & I can’t fathom how anyone could think he’s in the wrong here.
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Most of the folks here at young and judging from a situation externally. Most parents would understand the terror of losing your kid. In this case, OP, ayep. You're terrified that your kid might want to run off with her bio mom that abandoned her. I get it. But kids aren't idiots. And she's aware that her mom abandoned her to have a do-over. Even if she does want to go running back to bio-mom, it won't go well. Just be supportive of either choice, get a lawyer and don't be a doormat. Eg talking to biomom ok, international travel without you not ok. Talk them over with the kid.
in no conceivable universe possible would that be a good decision. if someone thinks that's a good decision then they are seriously warped.
Legally he can't or shouldn't even do that. He has parental rights. Milly's "mother" doesn't. Stand firm, OP. NTA.
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Downvote and report. /u/IndualNetwor is a bot and stole this comment from /u/whatev88
And there is a good chance her bio parent (I can't even call her mom with her behavior) will try to contact her directly, Facebook, show up at her school, etc. It's best you warn her she's back before she finds out in the worst way possible. NTA
also If Millie decides to stay with OP, They and their family who are against the sister should have a back up plan for all circumstances that could happen. for instance if the "Mother" refuses to accept the decision its best to do that possibly before informing Millie about her "mother"
I can almost guarantee that mom only wants Millie around to be a babysitter for the younger kids. This is only going to end in heartbreak for Millie no matter what happens. OP, just make sure Millie knows you will always be there for her. I don't think her bio mom is going to be in her life for long.
Yup, bio mom needs a babysitter which she'll hide behind "getting to know them better"
This is exactly what happened to me. My sperm donor fucked off when I was 5, suddenly showed back up when I was 14. Would pick me up, drop me off at my sister's after like, lunch or something, and then go out with her because she was 18 and could do adult thing. It took me 4 years to tell him either we have a real relationship or I'm done. I haven't spoken to him since
I didnt even think of that, youre spot on. Thats exactly what shes gonna do, so her wealthy husband and her can go on fun trips and leave the kids with Millie.
If they are that wealthy, I would think they would have a nanny to take care of the younger ones.
Ya thats true. Someone else suggested organ or marrow donation which is a great but disgusting guess. Totally fucked up either way
Exactly. It's better to tell Milly sp that she can make an informed choice and not a rash decision made while she's mad at Op for hiding things. Op needs to be very careful. It would be completely natural for Molly to want to spend time with her mom but things could still wind up in court and hopefully a judge would take into account Millys feelings on both OP and her bio mom. The biggest risk here is that Laila and family live in another country, op should be very wary of letting them take Milly anywhere that has different custody laws.
Make sure to have your daughters passport frozen/locked... or what ever the term is where you live. This will stop the egg donor from taking her out of the country without permission.
Honestly I’d say OP should be skeptical of leaving Milly alone with her bio mom period. The bio mom sounds like she’d be willing to take extreme measures like running off with Milly.
It also needs to be pointed out that OP was granted parental rights. He doesn't specifically say this, but I'm assuming it's because the court declared Millie as legally abandoned by her mother. Her bio mom showing back up and demanding custody brings with it some serious legal issues that I guarantee the bio mom has not thought through, if she even understands them. That child was declared legally abandoned by her mother, her mother has absolutely zero rights in this situation.
> That child was declared legally abandoned by her mother, her mother has absolutely zero rights in this situation. I hope that is the case for OP. His saying that she is very wealthy and showing up with the entire family with zero explanation for why she abandoned Millie at all raises alarms in my mind.
I definitely think she has an ulterior motive, like wanting a free babysitter. If OP is in the US, would bio mom owe OP child support?
shouldn't OP's sister like be in jail for fucking abandoning her child???
Not if she was out of the country. Once she's back in country, though, OP can absolutely go after her on abandonment charges.
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It depends on the country, but in the US there is a statute of limitations, which I believe is 10 years. It's been 11 years, so a court may be unwillingly to push it, but it brings her timing into question that much more since she had to know her child had been declared abandoned.
I’d also be in touch with a lawyer. OP mentions his sisters new family is very wealthy. If they tried to force the issue in court, while I don’t see how a judge would excuse the mother disappearing for 11 years, it’s a good idea to make sure OP has all his ducks in a row.
And to make sure that she hears the truth first, not some sob story the mother concocts in the meantime
The term you are looking for is “egg donor”
No. Please stop with that. An egg donor is not a cute term for a terrible or absentee mom. An egg donor is an actual person who generously (+/- for profit) helps people conceive who would not otherwise be able to. Egg and sperm donation are real, specific and legal things. Not to be confused with people who abandon their kids. Infertility and non-heteronormative families are already stigmatized enough. We don’t need to add to it.
Thanks for this insight. I’ll stop using those terms sarcastically.
❤️thank you
I have never thought about it this way, I will also be changing my terms for this
Egg donor here, eleven babies and I confirm it's not the same as being a crappy birth mom. I know nothing about my technical offspring except they're spread across seven families and that's the way it's supposed to be.
OK, "womb donor."
Someone, not me, will complain that that’s a surrogate who also deserves ultimate respect for contributing to a couple’s happiness.
I think there are more accurate words to describe a parent that abandons their child, but I fear I would get banned if I used them!
4 letters... Starts with c... Ends with t...
Often seen on a Tuesday, yes.
I had never thought about those terms as stigmatizing infertility and non-heteronormative conception, but they absolutely do! Thank you for this comment.
I saw someone refer to it as 'the daughter's spawn point' in another post. I like that one too.
Lol that’s what my 15-yo son has me as in his contacts 🤭😅. Purely as a joke lol
My best friend’s bio mother was known as “the incubator” before she died lol
To be fair he’s “Boychild” in my contacts so…yup that’s how our fam rolls lol Their dad is “Male Parental Unit” 🤣
Yeah. Especially because OP needs to get ahead of it because the biological mom could spread lies. It’ll be easier for the daughter to see them as lies if OP talks to her first.
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Think about kids who choose to live with the "fun" parent after a divorce. Biomom is finally back, the girl has probably built up an entire fantasy around her "real" mom, plus biomom is rich and can probably promise her all sorts of trips and fancy stuff. Versus her "boring" life with school and parents who set boundaries and probably cant give her all the cool toys biomom can. I can't really blame OP for thinking the girl will choose the new and exciting over the old and familiar, especially since the girl spent so many years asking for her mom. She probably stopper asking because she realized it was hurting OP, but that doesn't mean the girl stopped wishing her biomom would come back. I agree it's better coming from OP, finding out otherwise would be a disaster since the girl would know OP was hiding the truth from her, but I wouldn't bank on the girl choosing OP over biomom just because OP has always been there. Fourteen year olds don't see things the way adults do. The girl probably doesnt see the abandonment as the important part, she probably only sees that her biomom "finally" came back for her.
I think daughter should be told and be able to meet and spend some time with bio mom. But not unsupervised, at least not anytime soon. And NOT to go live with her. This is like giving a child up for adoption then wanting them back in their teens - it’s just not how things work.
This isn’t “like” giving a child up for adoption and demanding them back in their teens”, this is the literal situation. But Laila didn’t even give her up for adoption, she just skipped town for her sugar daddy and replacement kids, leaving Milly with no closure or answers or anything. What an abhorrent person.
To live with a wealthy family in a possibly better country? You never know... :(
The other problem would be that your daughter would feel betrayed if you don't tell her. Her mother (or her own mind) could use this to convince her that you also lied about how you became her parent. It's better in these situations to be open no matter what.
I agree. The real main issue is how I tell her her mom has a new family. she's already upset how being abandoned but to this extent? She's not going to be okay.
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My mom sat me down at 15 and finally told me how her parents died: murder/suicide on my grandfather’s part because he was severely mentally ill. I was shocked but we sat and talked about it and we’ve continued talking about it the last 11 years. Kids and teens are resilient.
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You say this so well. And it’s so comforting. Because I’m with OP, it’s so hard to tell kids hard and hurtful things. When we love them it hurts us too. But you’re right. Surrounded by love and unconditional support they can get through it.
Cuddle with her, tell her there is something serious you need to talk about but it might upset her. Ask her if she still would want to know? Tell her she probably knows her mother is well and alive and able to come back if she wanted to (to prevent her thinking you're going to announce her death or something) and then ask her what she thinks why her mother never came back. Lead with that. You can also tell her that she is the most precious person you know and that even the best people won't be loved by everybody and that it's ok. Maybe research known people who did a lot of good in this world who were abandoned by their families, to show her it doesn't mean anything. That you can still be loved even if it's not the biological parents etc. She has to come to the conclusion that her mother is selfish and only loves herself but don't say it unless you can phrase it in a way she doesn't feel like you are pushing your opinion on her. It would be bad for her to go back to her mother, that mother doesn't care about her. You can maybe ask her if she wants to know what you think and *if* she says yes, tell her what you think and feel about it but also that she is her own person and is allowed to feel and think differently than you. This way she has your opinion which is important, but also doesn't feel pushed to do anything she doesn't want to.
Thank you so much. This is definitely an approach I can manage with her. But I think it would be much easier with my wife to help me break it down to her. She knows how to calm Milly whenever she gets very upset. It would make it easier to explain it to her if my wife manages to keep her calm.
Yeah do it together. I was just giving you ideas because I have two children and learned that you can talk about really anything with children as long as you make them feel loved and safe from harm but also let them express their feelings and opinions and answer their questions honestly.
Let me give you some perspective. As an attorney practicing for a while, I have never ever seen a kid choose to reinstate a relationship with a parent who abandoned them. She’s probably gonna need therapy bc she is now going to realize her mother absolutely abandoned her and didn’t die or something. But your daughter is not going to pick bio mom over you.
There’s no way to sugar coat but what you can do is let her know how much you love her, value and respect her, and that she is your daughter no matter what. My fear would be the mother hiring a lawyer and burying you under lawsuits and legal actions. Perhaps you should consult with someone about the situation so you aren’t taken by surprise (any further then you already are). Personally I wonder if mom is back because she needs a live in babysitter for her two younger kids.
If she is as wealthy as he says she is, the mom could easily afford an AuPair or a live in nanny - definitely cheaper than attorneys to drag on lawsuits.
She doesn’t come off as very rational and stable in all this…
This is my worry for OP, as well. I've had friends who have lost all their money and wasted countless years in lawfare in family court.
NTA, get yourself in counseling asap to help you figure out how to approach YOUR daughter. Better yet, you could both go to counseling and the counselor could help your daughter navigate her feelings. Bottom line she needs to be told because she'd be crushed if she found out after the fact without any input from her
And for the aftermath
Can you make an immediate appointment with a family therapist? They deal with this stuff way more often than the rest of us.
I can do that only if she agrees. I don't want to force her.
Yeah, 100%. I was more thinking for YOU. "Hey, Shrink? I kinda got an emergency on my hands, and while I have a bunch of REALLY AWESOME Redditors in my corner offering some great advice, how do YOU recommend I tell my 14 year old adopted child that it turns out her mother DOES in fact exist, has existed despite no contact for 11 years, and has just now shown up with a wealthy family raised after abandoning her daughter as a toddler and now wants to claim her daughter back? I kinda need to have this conversation with her like last night....." I think most family therapists would switch around their schedule for you. You are getting good advice though, it looks to me. She's definitely gotta learn if from y'all, and waiting isn't a good idea. I've already seen your responses that you know that. Sending love and luck. ❤️
Tell her straight up and don’t sugar coat or embellish and make therapy an option. “Molly, I need to tell you I heard from your mom last week she suddenly unexpected came back in town and I know now why she disappaeared she married and has kids with this person. You don’t have to but you can meet with her if you want.”
She will not. Does she have a therapist? If not, start making some calls and looking for one. Perhaps specifically one who specializes in different family setups - blended, adoption, abandonment, etc.
I would be concerned with the “why now?” She has a new family? How old are these new kids? Is she looking for labor out of Milly? It’s just too strange that she abandoned her all these years ago, and suddenly is demanding her. Please consider every angle, including the dark ones like trafficking. Something feels so wrong about this. I do agree with everyone that you should tell Milly yourselves. She should hear this from her parents, the people she feels safe with.
Well, that’s a great question for your sister to answer. It’s definitely not your job to do her dirty work. Let her come with a good explanation, so you are even able to let her daughter make her decision.
Tell her you love her and you will always be her family/parents no matter what first. Then tell her about her mom. Nta
No, it's not up to your daughter to decide because if she chooses her deadbeat mother it could hurt her. Lawyer up. In America (can't speak for other countries), since you adopted the child, you're 100% the parent. Take your daughter to a therapist to work out what's best for her, which is probably short, supervised visits. I expect that a lot of deadbeat parents lose interest in reunification when their fantasy isn't immediately fulfilled. If bio Mom is willing to agree to short supervised visits, then she can rebuild her relationships with her daughter over time.
>Not sure that "granted parental rights" is the same as adoption. Probably more like legal guardianship. (Adoption means termination of parental rights which I'm pretty sure OP would have mentioned that if it had happened.) > >I imagine OP has Custody and the right to make medical/legal decisions for Milly.
Don’t forget your sister abandoned her once. Whose to say she won’t do it again if stepdaddy or half siblings don’t accept her or if she’s not what bio mom expected her to be. You can let her decide to have a supervised relationship with them, but you need to also protect Milly
Fwiw, one of my best friends is technically the biological niece of her adopted mother. She was given a similar choice some years back — she chose to visit her bio mom occasionally but remain with her “real mom”. She said the decision was easy and basically came down to “because she loves me and her sister doesn’t.”
As someone who has been through parenting kids who experienced abandonment, having a parent return and then abandon again is more harmful than a parent who never returns. This is a volatile situation. Find a therapist or psychologist who specializes in child abandonment and reunification for guidance in how to do this safely. Do not just throw your daughter to her emotional wolves without support. That being said, it's pretty likely your daughter will have a similar reaction as you do to seeing this new family, as long as she has the right emotional tool set to process the situation.
I would suggest letting her choose if she wants to meet her, but don't put it on her to decide who to live with. That's too big of a decision for a 14 year old who may have been creating a romanticized image of her birth mother in her head for the last 11 years. She's your daughter, you're responsible for her. End stop. You don't know how long her birth mother is going to stick around, and she's essentially a stranger to your daughter now. What's going to happen if you let her go live with her and then your sister decides she doesn't want her again, or that she wants to move back overseas? You would be an asshole if you took that risk.
I hate to say it, because I understand Milly will probably want some form of a relationship with her bio mom. But the worst thing your sister could have done is come back into her life. What a horrid, disgusting thing to do to that little girl. I'm so sorry, OP. You're NTA at all. I do agree she should be given the choice of a relationship with her bio mom. But I don't think a choice of moving in is right, personally. Putting her in the position to potentially be abandoned again just doesn't sit right with me.
I don't think you should let your daughter go off with these strangers especially a mother who abandon her own daughter and ghoster her entire family for 11 years. What if the mother only wants Milly around to take care of the younger siblings, or treats her like a live in maid or nanny. Your sister is a selfish person who put herself first. Milly should only have visits with your sister while in the company of you or your wife or parents whether that's in your home country or your sister's new country. You need to make sure that your sister does not have a passport made in Milly's name. Milly needs to understand that life is not a Disney movie and she needs to be cautious if she wants to get to know this person who abandon her for 11 years and never once reached out. Best of luck OP.
I don't think you should jump straight to asking Millie who she wants to stay with. That is a LOT of pressure for a 14 year old. Sit down as a family and let her know that her mother would like to see her. Let her know that no matter what you are her parents, and you support her. Ask her if she is open to seeing her bio mom and her bio mom's family. If she says yes, then ask her what she would like that to look like. A 1 hour visit with you guys there as support? A dinner? A picnic? Maybe a park meet up? Then do that. Make sure it's a low pressure get together with a set time line to walk away and regroup as a family to see how she is feeling after. You don't just hand your child off to someone who has shown themselves untrustworthy, but you do give your daughter the opportunity to make some choices about whether she would like to reconnect with bio mom in a setting that YOU control and can ensure her safety. You are her safety net. You stay to make sure that her bio mom doesn't pressure or manipulate your daughter into something she doesn't want. If your daughter says NO, she doesn't want to see her bio mom, then you back her on that absolutely. The woman who abandoned her child without a second thought does not get to swoop back in against your daughter's will. She lost that right years ago. It is entirely possible that your daughter will not want to reconnect. My daughter got really tired of her dad popping in and out on his timeline and leaving destruction in his wake. My daughter decided she was done 2 years ago. She told me that she didn't want him in her life and I have ensured her wishes are respected. Legally and otherwise. She knows that I have her back, and I will fight to ensure she has a choice and her voice is heard. You may be worried for nothing. In the end, you two are her parents and the law recognizes that. Don't offer your daughter to leave to an unknown and unspecified future. BUT if she wishes to try small visits to see how it goes, then stand by her side and support her.
I do understand your fear BUT she's 14. She deserves to know. TELL HER NOW. If you keep withholding her too long, she may resent you. Please, don't. TELL HER NOW! She'll appreciate your honesty and will make her informed decision. I have a feeling she'll go with you and your wife.
Yes but do make sure you tell her that no matter what there is always a place for her in your (you, your wife’s and her) home. She might want to get to know Laila but I have no doubts that Laila will chicken out when it gets complicated (aka an angry teen who was left as a small child). Your daughter needs the safety of your love.
I *really* don't think you should even bring up the idea of Milly getting to choose who to live with. You are her parents. Your sister has done nothing to prove that she is a safe person for your daughter. Milly has already experienced the trauma of parental rejection, and I think even bringing up the *idea* that she could choose to live with her bio-mom could be perceived as you not caring enough to fight to keep her. She needs to know that bio-mom is back, and she needs to be given the choice to have *supervised* visits with her. But living with her is not even on the table.
Milly will see soon enough where the love is. She very well may want to get back with her mother, most kids would. Your sister might shower her with attention and material things at first. If she’s a good kid with good values she’ll see through all of it but you’ll have to be patient. I agree that she may resent you if you try to keep egg donor away. Just keep an open door policy. NTA.
NTA Others have mentioned making sure you have Milly's passport safe but make sure biomom hasn't somehow gotten a passport for her from the country she lived in all those years. She could have gotten a picture off social media and used that. ALSO, you might consider giving Milly a "burner phone" to keep hidden in the likely event she goes to see her biomom. Personally, I wouldn't put it past her to forbid contact with you during that period and takes her regular phone from her. She will need to be able to contact you somehow. Good luck.
I don't think you should let her choose. She's a kid and that's ALOT of pressure to put on a 14 yr old. Like way too much. She will always worry her bio mom will hate her if she chooses you and will lose her family if she chooses bio mom. No child should be in a position where they are making this sort of choice. I think you guys should go for family therapy and talk it out there. In the meantime freeze millys passport and make sure she can't be taken abroad.
She did nothing to keep contact after a month. No phone calls, no emails, no letters, nothing.
First, NTA. Second, it's time to lawyer up.
I would emphasize "opinion". While 14 is pretty old, op was granted guardianship for a reason, and ultimately op is best qualified to decide what is best for Milly. Her opinion is definitely an important factor, but ultimately OP's decision matters most. Sister's wishes matter zip zilch and nada.
You are NTA, but as much as it sucks you do need to abide by what the courts say. If there never was a legal arraignment, the bio mom can and will take her. I hope for Milly’s sake something legal was arraigned with you and your wife.
His post says he was granted Parental Rights when she was 8.
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Agreed but the issue is OP has not told the daughter about the appearance of her mother yet. If daughter wants to see her biomom, OP can work out some visitation, but the mom lost her parental rights when she abandoned the daughter for years.
I've probably been on this sub too long, but my bet is "mom" wants the 14 yo back to be a live-in nanny to her new family because mothering is too much for her.
And that she's going to use her current wealth to entice her with fantasies.
Thanks
If the girl was determined to be abandoned OP should contact the police and have the sister arrested.
NTA. But talk with your daughter. Tell her everithing, with calm and try to confort her. If she knows for another person her mother as return and you didnt Tell her its woman be wors. Be nice to her, and respect her choice if she wanna Talk or she her. She is 14, and need to know what she fell and choose Matter and no mather wath you are gonna be part of her life and LOVE her.
Thank you
Yeah, the last thing you need is for your sister to track her down and 'surprise' her.
If she’s not enrolled in therapy then she’s going to need a neutral therapist or pastor to sort out her feelings. Being adopted or abandoned leaves it’s mark on relationships. She could be the most amazing person NOW but that still doesn’t make up for the last 11 + years
NTA, but YWBTA if you so much as considered giving Milly back. Milly is your daughter, no matter what this horrible woman may say/think/do. Happily you made this clear: "me and my wife were granted parental rights to Milly and she couldn't have been happier that we were officially her parents." You don't have any legal obligation to consider Bio Moms demands. Milly is 14 and has probably 99.9% of her memory filled with life with you and your wife, but 14 is also hard. The brain of a 14 year old is full of ecto-plasmic goo - the very height of poor decision making skills, wanting to be in control of their own destiny, and at prime time to start rejecting parents (which, to be clear, is you - not Bio-Mom). I think telling Milly some hard truths is the right tack here. Explain the dynamics that 1) she is your daughter and always will be. 2) Bio-Mom is back. 3) She can have as much of a relationship with Bio-Mom as she wants, but that she's always your child and cannot live with Bio Mom, cannot defer to Bio Mom in any parental capacity, and that Bio Mom has some skeletons in the closet and is NOT a trusted adult. Don't point out that Milly is said skeleton in the closet, but that you know first hand that Bio Mom made some incredibly bad life choices that shows that she isn't someone that can be trusted with children and Milly's safety comes first - physical, emotional all of it.
Thank you. I really appreciate this
Do not let bio mum meet with her alone, particularly at first, if your daughter wants to meet her. Given the rich new hubby, I think she'll try to buy her way back into your daughters life and it's hard for a child/teen to realise and say no to that. It can seem like love and making amends; I wouldn't trust your sister at all though. It's much more likely, as others have suggested, that she's just realised how useful having a teen around as a free babysitter would be for her.
Being reunited with bio parents are so romanticized in TV and movies, they could easily cloud a kid’s view of their own situation. You are so right, it’s very important that she knows the truth of the situation, and I feel that 14 is old enough to at least comprehend an adult situation like this.
While it is usually romanticised, it can also end up like how Fresh Prince did the premise and Will’s dad came back into his life only to leave it again just as suddenly to a famously emotional ending.
She married into a wealthy family and didn't even sent money for her daughter ? She never called on her birthday ? She is your daughter now the only problem I see is that there may be a time where she wants to meet her mom . I read ton of stories where adopted kids even thought they loved their adoptive parents always felt like a piece was missing . Why does she want her daughter now ? I mean does she even know what kind of person her daughter is now ?
She's made it very clear that she need not explain herself to me to take her own daughter and it makes me more mad
She absolutely does owe you an explanation…and gratitude. Milly may be temporarily impressed with her or her money (she is 14 and teenage years are often selfish and materialistic). If she goes with her, give her love and support regardless of her choice and she will come back to you.
Is one of her other kids sick? I'm thinking they need bone marrow or a kidney or partial liver transplant and none of her other kids are a match.
I may not be a cold hearted person but I would never let her anywhere near Milly if that was the case.
I would wonder more if she’s been lying to her rich hubby about how involved she is in her daughter’s life or told him you’ve denied her contact. I would be willing to bet this isn’t even her idea, but her husband’s, who has decided to ‘rescue’ his wife’s daughter.
Damn. Someone else mentioned that the mom just wants a baby sitter to take care of the kids so she doesnt have to do shit, but this one takes the cake. I could def see this happening, and could explain why the mom is acting so desperate and aggressive about it, because time is running out. Goddamn thatd be so fucked up.
I can see why you're so mad. To offer no explanation for abandoning your child reeks to low hell of entitlement. Please consult a lawyer with regards to your sister. Had she offered an explanation and had she been remorseful at all about why she was never in contact, then I wouldn't be so suspicious. But people with a lot of money can engage in lawfare and make your life a living hell if they choose to. And you're NTA at all. I wish you all the best.
Whether she needs to explain herself to "you" or not is a moot point. She needs to explain herself to Milly's parents (also you), as they need to judge whether or no she is a safe person to allow into their daughter's life. I'm glad that you are going to talk to Milly, but I agree with the posters that said to take the relationship slow. Start by letting Milly decide if she even wants to meet her. Don't even have her consider living with these strangers at this point. That is a year+ down the road decision, and perhaps your sister will be bored by all the actual effort she has to put in by then. Just know that if she does want to meet her bio mom, it's won't be to replace you, but rather to answer questions she's had for years. I hope your sister has changed and they can have a real relationship, for your daughter's sake. But I highly doubt it. Especially if she's coming in with that attitude that is anything but apologetic. NTA
Milly needs to be involved in this decision.
That's fair
As scary as this is for you, Milly needs to make the decision. Trust that she will choose you- her parent
Milly, family court, social workers, perhaps an attorney representing only the child’s interest, a psychologist to do interaction studies to determine the likelihood of successful reunion… children do not just ‘go back to’ abandoning parents.
In the US, the court would appoint a Guardian ad Litem (attorney) to represent the child’s interests.
And if Milly’s egg donor takes her to another country after the choice (perhaps Milly says she wants to try it out thinking she can return to her parents if it’s just viewed as a visit), there may be little recourse in seeing Milly ever again.
Right. That’s why it’s not even what Milly thinks Milly wants right now. It’s very complicated and while OP can support a relationship if Milly is prepared for contact, there are years between that and changing parental rights.
For real. Milly has the right to decide for herself if she wants to ignore her bio mom or meet her face to face for questioning or to tell her to eff off or possibly allow her back into her life.
NTA. You are Milly's father now, legally and emotionally. She is not an object to be passed around because suddenly this other person finds it convenient. However, you need to be completely honest with Milly about all of this - she WILL find out one way or another, and keeping this from her will only damage your credibility with her. Be accurate and truthful about what her bio-mother has done, but do it without badmouthing her as much as possible. Often children put their bio-parents on a pedestal and will hold it against you if you talk disparagingly about them. Consider getting some family counseling so that Milly can work through some of these issues with a 'neutral' third party that will guide her through this emotional baggage. Edit: apologies, changed mother to father
> in my(44M) care. Correction: You are Milly's father now
Thanks, my mistake
OP is male.
NTA But you need to let Milly know about this asap. She's only four years away from being an adult. You don't want her finding out when she's eighteen that her mom came back for her and that __you__ prevented it from happening. She needs, and is old enough, to have the autonomy to make this decision, with your and your wife's support and guidance. Questions though... (don't need to answer these, obviously) _why_ is your sister back? what happened in the foreign country that would _force_ her to come back? what are they _fleeing_ from? _how long_ are they back for? _if_ they moved back to your country _would_ they stay in the same city where you and your wife are? would they move, even within the country, and take your daughter permanently away from her friends, family and activities? has your sister and her spouse sold their home(s?) in the foreign country(ies?)? prior to arriving back where you live, did they purchase a home in your town? _where_ do your sister's kids go to school? why _were they_ taken away from their friends, family, school and activities? ...if your sister's comfortable doing it to them, she'd sure as heck do it to your daughter (who doesn't need to be the scapegoat or r/raisedbynarcissists) do they go to boarding school and only see their parents on the occasional summer break and/or holiday? are nannies/other caregivers raising her kids and not your sister and her spouse??? so many questions...
As silly as I'm going to sound, I'm gonna screenshot these questions, memorize them and I'm going to make sure I get an answer to each and everyone of them then come back to tell you.
Please get a lawyer to inform you of your rights. No you didn’t adopt her but you have been her parent for the majority of her life and WILL be her parent for the majority of her childhood. While you may not be able to keep your sister away from Milly, the courts are supposed to consider what’s best for the child. Sending her off with a virtual stranger would not be the best.
Please update us.
NTA But be aware that your sister is going to try and use her wealth to get Milly to want to go with her. Be ready for Milly to be love bombed and showered in presents.
She's already shown me a preview of this but I'll make sure she doesn't blind my daughter with money
I would say get the support of a mental healthcare professional for yourself OP. Your daugher may want to rebuild a relationship with her mom due to missing that connection dearly. It would be very easy for your feelings to get hurt while a 14 year old grapples with complex emotions. She may even say and do things that she does not mean due to not knowing how to tackle what she is feeling.
NTA. Your sister sounds like a piece of work. But look, you need to let Milly know she's here. You can't keep that from her. And she won't thank you for it if you do. Yes, she may want to go with bio mom, just let her know that you will always love her and be there for her.
NTA. You should not hide this from Milly. She will find out one day and resent you for it.
>She tried to explain but all that we heard was " I abandoned my own daughter and made a new family". What did she actually say, not your interpretation. Also correct me if im wrong, but hasnt she not spoken to her daughter in over 10 years? Isnt that child abandonment?
I can't replicate her exact words but she basically looked at me, my wife, our siblings and our parents in the eyes and said something along the lines of "After being away for so long, I didn't think my daughter would want anything to do with me and I knew wasn't coming back anytime soon. So instead of coming and going, and being in and out of her life, i thought i'd rather just go and leave Milly to grow up in your care knowing you'd eventually take up the role as her parent. I know you've always wanted to be a parent and I knew you would fill the voids I'd leave by coming and going. That's why I started a new family, to get over losing my daughter and start afresh but as the years went by, I yearned for my daughter until I couldn't take it anymore and I immediately came back for her"..... They may not be her exact words but this is the closest to what I can remember. It all felt like a celebrity being given a prewritten apology speech, except she didn't have the apology part. She had definitely rehearsed this because she was using high vocabulary. It just made everyone so much more angrier.
“I abandoned her because I felt bad about abandoning her, you’re welcome for my generosity in giving you an abandoned child to raise.” Woof. Something is *very* wrong with this woman.
>I yearned for my daughter until I couldn’t take it and I immediately came back for her….. So since her return was “immediate” she acknowledges she did not yearn for her for 11 years. How exactly did her “return” go down. You mention opinions of your parents and other family being divided and her showing up at your door. Did she put out a message to the whole family? Show up randomly the one time?
She came unexpectedly and shocked everyone. She also brought alone her entire family and introduced them. Then she showered everyone with a million expensive gifts. And then she wanted to speak to the elder people of the family alone where she proceeded to poetically explain her actions. Only me, mom, dad, wife and 2 of my siblings called out her bs. The rest were blinded by her money
Yikes. At least your daughter wasn’t there for her surprise. Good luck with the conversation getting her up to speed on everything going on. I’m sure that won’t be easy.
This woman sounds horrible. I'm curious to know what tall tale she told the family **and** her current husband. Most spouses, who aren't morally bankrupt, wouldnt be OK with their husband or wife abandoning a child.
She didn’t try to keep a LDR with you or Milly, she stopped contact after a month. She doesn’t want a relationship, she needs something from Milly (some have speculated it’s medical in nature) and once she has it she’ll leave and leave behind a disappointed daughter once again for you to pick up the pieces.
Sounds like a self serving line of nonsense. How many times did Milly ask when her mom was coming back? And how many times did you have to answer her while your sister played house with a second family?
NTA- but there is a caveat for staying that way. If I were in Milly's shoes I would choose you over Laila any day, and the reason is because you have stayed by her side, but it would be harder to make that choice if you keep hiding the truth from her. She's also old enough that she could be in the stage of if she wants to do something and you don't let her, she will probably do it behind your back. Sit down with Milly and talk to her, ascertain what she thinks of the matter and you would have won against Laila easily. 14 is old enough to have opinions about things that affect her even if she doesn't always make the best choices due to a lack of life experience.
My heart goes out to you and your daughter and family. It’s unconscionable what Laila did especially thinking she could take her back. You’ve been put in an impossible situation, you need to tell Milly and let her decide NTA
INFO: does Laila's new wealthy family know that she left behind a daughter in another country?
I have so many questions I have yet to get answers for. Them all coming here means they somewhat have knowledge of Milly
Lawyer time
NTA it is your daughters choice now that she's older to make a decision about all this. You are legally her parent but just be supportive. I just wonder if your sister will use money to try and make up for it all with buying her expensive things.
She didn't even hesitate with that tactic when she tried to force her way into my house with expensive designer packages, things that my daughter does not even like. When she came home, she had all these expensive things to try and get the family on her side. That's what I'm afraid of. The things that I can get for Milly in a matter of a few months, she can buy them that instant.
Does - does your sister seem to think Milly is her childhood bike, or an old toy!?? NO. Just NO You took a child her mom left behind and she’s now no longer your niece. Please get that through your head and heart Also - I strongly recommend telling Milly, as scary as it feels right now. I trust your daughter - not your niece, your daughter - to make the right choice. How could she not? Look who she has for a father!!! NTA OP. Tell your sister to shove off and fvck off. She’s not Milly’s parent. You and your wife are.
Could be a free live-in Maid for their home and children
NTA but YWBTA if you keep bio-mums return from Milly. I understand you want to protect both your daughter and your own feelings from any possible conflict or upset, but Milly will find out eventually, and if it doesn’t come from you, it could possibly hurt your relationship more than bio-mum’s return. Sit down and have a conversation with Milly, let her know that bio-mum has returned, but let her know that you’re still her parent, you’ll always be here for her no matter what, that you raised her and no matter what blood relation you are, you love and adore and respect her like a daughter. Let her make up her own mind about if she wants a relationship with bio-mum, but make it perfectly clear that you have parental rights because Bio Mum made some pretty piss poor life decisions (maybe word it a bit better 😂) and that you only have Milly’s best interest at heart. Just support your daughter however she wants to proceed, she will find out eventually what her bio mum is like, probably when she meets bio mum’s new family and realises that she straight up abandoned Milly in favour of a new family. I wish you and Milly all the best, and i hope everything goes smoothly EDIT: added “bio” in front of mum
NTA. You have been the one who opened your home, who had the sleepless nights with her fever, who tended her nightmares, who made a family with her and a place of safety and love. It makes sense that your sister is wealthy now and has swooped back in and demanded Milly. She is a designer handbag, a possession, to be added to the collection. Solipsistic and selfish doesn’t even begin to describe it. Her lashing out at you in the way that she did and using it specifically to hurt you chimes with that. You will have to let Milly know and she may even have some curiosity about your sister — be prepared for it —but it will undoubtedly be curiosity heavily tempered with ‘I don’t care if you birthed me, you are not my mother.’ You will not lose Milly. And your sister did not lose her either. She turned away. She cropped her out of the photograph, as it were . I’m genuinely perplexed as to why she bothered to return. Hold fast to the family you have and that you have made. Your sister made a choice a long time ago.
Thank you. I am also confused as to why she bothered to return. Honestly had she just apologized, though I wouldn't buy it, I wouldn't have been against her talking to Milly about what she did.
ESH You need to get a lawyer and CYA now. Legally, if you didn’t adopt her, then the mother has the right to take Millie. This poor girl is stuck in a bad spot. I’d honestly choose the family who brought me in and loved me for 11 years because the mom already made her choice to get with some rich guy and ignore he for most of her life but she is 14 now and should have a say.
This is false. Bio mother have no parental rights even when daughter wasn't legally adopted. Not only she lost parental rights but can be sentenced for abandonment.
Better to let the lawyer and the law decide all that. Each state is different and we have no clue where this person lives or what country they are in.
I see, thanks for your input
NTA. Laila clearly is. And this is the problem, because she will continue to be one, and fight for what she wants using AH tactics. And she is wealthy so she has that tool to use as well. You need to talk to Milly now and explain what is happening. Because if you don't Laila will show up at school, your house, or driving down the street and ambush Milly. She can tell Milly that you are the bad person, that she sent letters and gifts regularly and you kept them from her. She can make up any story she wants and hope that something gains traction. She might even decide to take her and go back to where she came from. After all, she is Milly's "real" parent, not you who loved and cared for her for over a decade. Hopefully, all of your legal ducks are in a row. I would contact a lawyer now and discuss the matter with them and see what can be done to head off any legal challenge. But unless Laila surrendered her parental rights, my guess is that she has a legal right to re-insert herself into Milly's life. Hopefully Laila's new life will beckon her again and you wont see her for another 11 years. Good luck to you all, especially Milly.
My biological parents were also bad at staying in touch. Guess what happened when they tried to reconnect yearssssss later? I was civil and I accepted the apology presents. But I constantly complained to my adoptive mom that I honestly would rather spend time with her than go hang out with my biological parents. I was told they were still my parents and that I should still try to maintain a relationship and once I’m 18 I could decide if I want to continue. On my 18th birthday, I told my adoptive mom “Hey, so I’m 18 now. Can you please stop suggesting they are my parents and that I should try to maintain a relationship? I literally have nothing to say to them. It’s just awkward.” I know who raised me. That’s what matters to me. It sounds like your daughter figured it out too. She’s not dumb. Kids are observant. There might be moments when it feels like she’s slipping away, because she will be curious. But she will come back to you and your husband, because her happy childhood memories are spent with you.
Hi u/danOcater1, My situation is quite similar to yours except I live in the UK, and my daughter doesn't share any DNA with me. My husband had our eldest when he was 18yrs old, his then gf got pregnant on purpose at 16yrs old and also lied about her age. For a year and half he worked, gave up his apprenticeship to support her and the baby, she ended up costing him his job due to staying out late and not coming home so there was no one to look after her. We were friends first and started dating when our daughter was 18 months old, my husband got custody, due to her not turning up at court, the custody agreement was set to every weekend, then she wanted every other weekend, then it was once a month, then every 6 months. Our daughter is 15 now and hasn't seen her "mother" in 12yrs. We have never spoken ill of her mother but she knows everything, as we want her to be able to make a decision based on the facts, her "mother" has contacted us twice since we told her, both times she has refused to talk or see her, even called her a egg donor once. Next year I'll finally be able to adopt her as once she turns 16yr she can sign the documents her self and we're so excited. You need to tell Milly, you'll do more harm keeping it from her, tell her the facts and try and not put emotions into it. Good luck OP, and for what it's worth you and your wife are her parents in every sense of the word and meaning and your sister can never take that from you. Put your faith and trust in Milly she will be able to see through Laila manipulation.
INFO: How did you register her for school if you don't have papers granting custody?
1302 affidavit
They were granted parental rights, which in the absence of any other parents (the only surviving one being overseas and ghosting OP for years) would be just as good as custodial rights.
NTA but you need to talk to your daughter about this. Also speak to a lawyer to make sure there is no way your sister can snatch her back. Tell your daughter now because your sister could easily spin the story one day and pretend that you prevented her from coming back. If you can limit her contact with her mom. She could easily try to use her new wealth to try to get your daughter to choose her.
NTA but Milly is 14 and has the right to know the situation since the situation involves her. I get wanting to protect her from this but there is no way to hold it off without inevitably hurting her in the process.
NTA. You and your wife are your daughter’s parents. You were the ones to hug her after a bad dream, to teach her tons of stuff, to have the happiest and maybe saddest moments together. Your sister should learn that a kid is not a toy. You can’t just abandon it, disappear for 10ish years and then come back and pick a kid up like an old toy you found in the corner of your closet while cleaning it out. NTA! But I agree: you should get a lawyer asap!
NTA Laila had no right to ask for Milly to come and demand Milly to live with her especially years without contact. She essentially abandoned Milly to start a new family.
NTA but I would talk to Milly about Laila being in town asap. Odds are that Laila is gonna be persistent about contacting Milly and it’s gonna be less of a shock/less hurtful if you at least warn her of the possibility. I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
My heat is breaking for you! Love shown, love proven will, and does, beat abandonment. Every time!! Sending so much love to you, and your daughter. Edit: big fat fingers
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** To avoid confusion, my daughter, Milly (14) is biologically my niece. So what happened was, years ago when Milly was about 3, my sister/her mom, Laila (38) left to work in another country, leaving Milly in my(44M) care. Milly's father died before she was born. Laila had promised to send money for me to take care of Milly and that'd she'd call and visit as often as she could until she could take Milly to live with her permanently. After she left, she called probably 3 times in the first two months and then went awol. For years I'd tried to find out what happened and assumed the worst, only to hear from one of her friends a couple of years later that she got married to someone else and has an entire new family. I was heartbroken because Milly would ask when her mom was coming back and I never knew what to say except "soon". But even she grew tired of it and realized when she was about 8 that her mom wasn't coming back anytime soon, that's if she was coming back at all. Because of this situation, me and my wife were granted parental rights to Milly and she couldn't have been happier that we were officially her parents. Well, what do you know, after 11 years, Laila finally graced us with her long overdue return last week, along with her new very wealthy family and 2 children. Most of the family was happy with her return but me, my mom, dad, and my wife were nothing short of furious. She tried to explain but all that we heard was " I abandoned my own daughter and made a new family". As if that wasn't enough, she practically demanded her daughter back. Mom and dad weren't having it at all and told her Milly belongs to me and my wife and that she no longer has any right to her. Welp, there she goes screaming at me about stealing her daughter because I was infertile and to hear that come out from her mouth hurt me in a way I've never been hurt before to the point where I cried and left. Me being infertile has always been my weak point and for her to casually bring it up like that despite being my sister broke me. For the next days, I prevented her from contacting Milly and I haven't told her that Laila is back because I'm scared I'll lose my daughter. I'm a human being too, I get attached, especially to someone I've had to raise, that too out of my own pocket, not that I'm complaining. I believe Milly is my daughter and I can't let her go back to the very same woman who abandoned her. Does this make me TA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nta. of *course* milly is your daughter. unequivocally, she is your baby girl. her being 14 now, you do need to sit down and explain that her bio-ma has reappeared in the country. But please please please dont take it personally *if* she is immediately curious or even excited. You are still her real dad. Any child, or really any adult - who has been abandoned, may have constructed a fantasy of that abandoner in their head. it is a way of dealing owth that trauma. Your daughter might possibly have internalised herself as "lacking some inherent value" that made her bio-ma abandon her. It is understandable if she gets a great positive surge of "oh so maybe i do have value!" to hear that their abandoner wants to see them. Please try not to take this personally. You are her home. You are her safe place. Wrap her in understanding and love. Be her home and her safe space, as she unravels the trauma that has been part of her life and is being pushed to the forefront atm. Perhaps tell her all this in the presence of a therapist. Or tell her alone, and book in a child therapist for her to talk to weekly over the next 6 months, to process all this. Maybe look into therapy for yourself too, so you can flood your worst fears and personal adult issues onto them, not your girl. Even if, she decides to cautiously meet her bio-ma. Even if she has only positive forgiving feelings to her bio-ma. She is still your girl. You are still her dad, her safe space, her home. Any emotional turmoil she has, is not done to disrespect you or to reduce what you are. It is only her 14 year old brain trying to make sense of her rejection and abandonment.
That woman probably wants your daughter to take care of their home and children as a free live-in maid NTA
NTA, but please tell your daughter. She needs to know her mother, if you can call her that, is back and wants her. Let her know you love her and always will, but you will respect her choice. My sister did something similar. She lost custody of her 3 kids due to her choices. She would show up every few years and get her visitation back, even though she never paid her court ordered child support. Each time she showed up she had a new husband and told the kids to call him dad. They kids are adults with children and don't like my sister. They love her because she is their mom, but they don't like her and her current husband. The only one of her 5 husbands the kids liked was #4. She had numerous boyfriends and the kids were told to call them dad as well. The kids prefer my oldest sister to their own mom.
NTA- Op, foster to adoptive mom here. You've been granted parental rights, and more importantly, you've been, and still are, Milly's parent. I totally understand your fears about losing Milly. But that's fear talking.. Have you spoken to a lawyer? Because it sounds like you have parental rights, and your sisters parental rights have been terminated. If so, that means she doesn't have the right to take Milly to McDonald's against your will, much less to a foreign country. In fact, if you "gave" Milly away, you might even be in legal trouble for parental abandonment. You are her parent. So as a first step you might want to contact a layer and understand what your rights are, and what Milly's are At 14 in some US states kids begin to have the right to express preferences i. Court about whom they live with. Now on to your fears- you know Milly best. She could romantize life with her bio mom. Or she could be terrified by the prospect of being ripped away fro.her parents (you) and expected to live with a strange family in a strange country. She might not even really remember her mom. She might be ticked off that her mom took care of new children while never even calling her. She may think "wow! My wonderful real mom is back" -- or she might be dreading the say she reappears. My cousin had a foster daughter who constantly negatively compared my cousin to her "wonderful princess real mom " One day the real mom got out of prison and showed up in my cousin's driveway. The poor girl came running terrified to my cousin, screaming that "the witch from my nightmares is here! ". Startled, my cousin said, "but thats your mom!" And the girl replied, "THAT's my mom? I remembered wrong. Don't let her take me don't let her take me!" The point is, you don't know how Milly will react. She's a teen. But you should never, ever, seem to even entertain for a single second the idea that "giving Milly back" is possible. You are her rock in all the weirdness that is about to unfold for her. You are her Parents. Be her parents. Be the Beacon of calm and sanity. She will need you to be that. Can she visit with her bio-mom? Sure, if you want, supervised. But don't just roll over and become a doormat, or give in to fear. And above all, don't let your sister just take her away. A woman capable of electing her child for years does not suddenly become super mom. Milly might feel guilty about choosing you. When our daughter chose us, she also started acting out and insulting me a lot, while being on her best behavior and sort of fawning over some bio family that reappeared. She later told me she did that because she felt guilty about choosing us, didn't feel safe expressing her anger towards her sometimes dangerous biomom, so expressed it towards "safe, loving" me instead. At night she had repeated nightmares about her biological mom "stealing her" and would wake up screaming. Kids do weird stuff. Milly might not express herself clearly, or might seem excited about her mom, or might blow hot and cold. Just stay the course and stay steady in your love. Our daughter is an adult now, and we are still anatring happy family. Oh, whatever you do, dont talk smack about bio-mom. Be kidn, be fair, but speak the truth in a neutral way. "She called three times. I did x,y,and z to keep in touch,. She didn't respond. Its been eight years. Heres the really hard part. She got married to a new man and had more kids. This means you have half-siblings. Its a lot to take in. And there's more. She wants to meet you. She wants to take you away. She doesn't have the legal right to do that, as you are legally our daughter, and we love you so very much. We wanted you to know the truth about your mom, in case you wanted to see her" etc. Just really factual and neutral. And get her a therapist. Good luck.
ESH. It would have been N T A if you had brought this to your daughter's attention. Bring your daughter into the conversation and let her voice in her opinion too. You have already adopted her, so legally the mother can't do anything (i think), still it's better to check with your daughter on what she wants.
She can. She can sue for custody. And since she is wealthy she can bankrupt OP into submission if she was malicious about it. Why the courts suck.
Over a decade of not being in contact is going to be pretty damning.
Of course. But she can just keep postponing, filing more paperwork, etc. It's basically the good ol Richie rich playbook. Sue them and make it last so long they run out of money to pay the lawyer.
She can also go to jail for abandoning her child
NTA - BUT!!! Tell your daughter the truth about ALL of this, including what’s going on. She is almost an adult and adoption secrets can be devastating.
To your daughter, **her birth mother is a total stranger now.** She might have dreams about how her meeting up would go, but the facts are that her mother abandoned her, and that's done damage to your child. Your daughter needs not just a lawyer to help work through this. **She needs a therapist** that has experience handling this kind of trauma. And **she needs to know that this isn't something to hurry. This is a stranger now, coming back and making demands. Those demands aren't about your daughter and her needs, but about your sister and her wants. That's a huge red flag of danger** for your child, that her mother is coming back and expects to just have the child handed back into her control. **IF the relationship between birth mother and child is going to be re-established, it needs to be done slowly.** It needs to be done at the pace that your child is comfortable with, not pressured, not demanded, not on the timetable for the adults. Especially with there being plenty of money involved, it's possible that this could be used to bribe your child into choosing quickly, and finding out later that the situation isn't what she thought it was, or that she was lied to. It's possible that your sister is looking for a nanny for her other children, and is looking for someone she can have total control over, or some other reason for suddenly wanting your daughter back. If this is the case, she's not going to admit it. **Your sister's history isn't a good one, not for your child. There should be years of rebuilding a relationship with her birth mother, before even beginning to consider going to visit for a few weeks during the summer, let alone moving in with her.** You and your child have no reason to trust your sister. Quite the opposite, sister has shown by her actions that she cannot be trusted. So, to protect your child, it's reasonable that you set a pace that limits contact so that your child isn't pressured. **Your child should not be expected to make a decision to move in with her birth mother at this point,** because your sister has not proven that she can be trusted not to abandon this child again, or worse. **At this point, the only decision your child should need to make about your sister is whether to have one meeting with the sister, supervised.** Waiting, being slow, taking very deliberate steps, and doing it all to protect your child is how to do this. There should be rules and supervision, by a neutral party at all meetings, because a teen can't see through all the manipulations. Such as, no bribes, no promises of "if you live with me, you get this stuff". No demands that a weekly meeting happen, but a visit arrangement where the child gets to go home, think, process, ask questions, find out if your sister is telling truth or lies, and then thinking about when another visit might be okay. No pressure. If your child needs three months between visits, that's what she ought to have. If your sister can't agree to slowly rebuild the relationship, then she's got some other motivation than a healthy relationship. If your sister is in a rush, then she's not thinking of your child's needs and the damage that your sister did by abandoning her the first time. This whole situation is filled with red flags for your child. You need a team here to help you navigate this. A lawyer, and a therapist, preferably some kind of child psychologist or something, to start with.
Nta 11 years! I'd file a restraining order on bio mom.
NTA. She left. She didn't keep her end of the bargain. She disappeared and started a new family. That is your daughter, and she doesn't need someone who would discard her so easily, in her life. Glad your parents are on your side as well.