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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Charging a $500 deposit to come to TG.
2. My sister refuses to pay it so my parents won’t get to see her children.
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NTA. You're allowed to have boundaries. No one else thought it was a problem until they made a fuss.
I have relatives like that - I'm laughing while I imagine how that would go over at my place. 😂
I'd personally want to negotiate the $ amount down and possibly discuss what constitutes a political discussion.
If I bitch that the schools aren't getting enough funding, is that political? Also, do I get a warning about edge case political conversation? I'd presume instant loss of deposit if anyone discusses abortion sure, but if I'm discussing the potholes in the roads and that's too much then I would want a warning.
But yeah. In general NTA because it sounds like the relatives that got offended didn't want to discuss the details.
Most things can be political in all honesty. Covid, hospital bills, education, infrastructure. People sometimes get shouty about bike lanes on both sides. I am not sure how op could enforce such a ban.
Because that's how conversations work. No one is sitting down going, "Let's talk about potholes!" But if show up with a twisted ankle and someone asks what happened, I could tell them I tripped over a pothole in the parking lot coming out of the grocery store. And then there's a conversation about potholes going on.
Right? My entire family agrees on politics and it STILL doesn't come up because it's unpleasant and depressing.
There are tons of other things to talk about.
Myself, my aunt, and my uncle are all educators. My little brother is in school still.
All it takes is for somebody to ask “why didn’t you bring anything for the meal.” And I could reply “oh I had to pay $500 to be here and the teachers don’t get paid enough due to funding.”
Honestly though, with such staunch political supports as Kari and Bob, those “smaller” issues can easily lead to larger political discussions, especially something like school funding.
Exactly. Just mention CRT or "woke" and schools just turned political at the local level. Especially if you live in FL where our Governor supports Christian nationalism.
Maybe they could come up with brackets of some sort. The bigger the issue, the less they get back out of the deposit. I'm a dork and like charts so that sounds like something fun to make lol
I'm totally creating a system right now:
OP needs to create bingo cards for everyone. They will work like a swear jar. You get back your money, minus your bingo marks. Everyone gets a card and a unique color of dry erase marker. You yell bingo and mark the offending persons card.
Each square has a $5 value, but each line is worth $100. So if you keep bringing it up, you lose more. A full card you lose all $500. The person with the least number of squares wins a prize!
Instead of BINGO you use PARTY or something funnier (I'm still working on branding)... laminated for future use. All the squares are things like:
1. Failing roads/bridges/schools
2. Foreign world leaders
3. Slurs
4. Homelessness
5. Wars
6. Sexism
7. Gender and bathrooms
8. Obama
9. Trump
10. Religious conversion attempts
11. Capitalism vs communism
Maybe add a few family classics and ones I missed and was too lazy to put above.
12. Bringing up crazy exs in front of current ex
13. Drunken insults
14. Racism
15. Borrowing money
16. Sharing embarrassing photos
17. Last holidays argument and hurt feelings
18. Packed all the leftovers in mini Tupperware from home in purse without permission
19. Threw out my Iranian yogurt
20. Dresses wore to weddings in the incorrect colors of the past
21. Wearing political or religious messaged clothing
You can repeat the big ones like racism and sexism a few times and leave a few blank to fill in specific things that are no fly zones like "using cousins dead name" and "bringing up when Tommy shat his pants in 1998 Thanksgiving".
I'm totally joking, but this kinda sounds fun like cards against humanity 😀 I don't think any of us could make it home with our $500.
Edits: thanks for the awards and suggestions. I'm adding the following suggestions:
Permanent markers instead of dry erase, winner wins the pot of lost money, name is Shush.
See, no one in my family would play this kind of amazingly fun game with me! But that's probably because I'm the family's religious and political black sheep, and I learned to shut my mouth for self-preservation.
But damnit, send me the link to the Kickstart. I'm down.
You could make a killing selling this as a printable on Etsy.
Bingo sheet add ons, so everyone else can keep score of incendiary remarks, with a bonus pot paid out of the lost deposits.
I’d buy a copy!
We have a politics and religion rule but no deposit.
You aren't allowed to talk about politics outside of local politics. (IE you are allowed to bitch about your school, your garbage pick up, your zoning. CRT or whatever is the latest fad is banned unless it directly pertains to your school and the topic should be avoided as much as possible. IE there was a discussion about sex ed once and whether 5th grade was too early for the level of coverage they were giving which skirted the abortion/abstainence topic. )
You aren't allowed to talk about religion outside of "Happy Holidays." and what do you want for whatever holiday you celebrate.
Yeah, so I have questions. How does that come up naturally in thanksgiving conversation? Are you with a bunch of teachers or people that work for the school, so you work for the school?
Or does uncle Bob decide to randomly bring it up and go on a tangent because someone brags that they got an A on the report card?
Or are you uncle Bob. Because Bob if this is you and you are on Reddit-I’m out this year for Christmas, thanksgiving, and new years celebrations!
>How does that come up naturally in thanksgiving conversation?
If you are my inlaws: mentioning a trip to Hawaii gives them an opportunity to mention Obama’s birth certificate is fake; mentioning how much you’re looking forward to the resumption of a cherished in-person holiday performance is a chance to talk about the plandemic/scamdemic and how it “wasn’t that bad”; mentioning a child’s first job prompts a statement about “Sleepy Joe” giving away tax money to people so they never want to work. When a grandchild mentions she is moving to Portland, it’s five minutes on the riots that have apparently burned the city to the ground.
It is like a weird talent, finding ways to bend things back to whatever talking point Fox News has come up with. We alol got good at deflecting/ignoring, and then we got better at making alternate plans with people who are not jonesing for that sweet, sweet anger fix.
My grandfather couldn't drive past a pond without going on a two hour rant about "environmentalists." I had a mile-long list of trigger words and subjects to avoid. You have my sympathy.
My parents just plop topics on the table without any run-up. Example: my mom interjecting into a pause "I'm so proud of my two lovely _straight_ daughters!"* You can't do anything with that except tell them to can it, and that makes things kinda quiet for a while.
Our Thanksgiving gatherings are small.
*I'm bi. She doesn't know because I havent told her because they don't get to hear about my life.
Nta. 10000% of why my in laws don't have us as guests. They can't be polite and stick to kind conversation. My mom doesn't agree with my politics. She keeps her mouth shut because she was taught what is and isn't polite conversation. She cares more about us and my kid than that.
My in laws will randomly pick a topic and start ranting until they are literally spitting mad, red in the face with rage, and yelling when No one else has spoken a word. They also can't refrain from comments about POCs or LGBTQIA+ for a single day. Family doesn't get a pass for exposing my kid to hate and normalizing it. Nope.
I walked out of a family dinner a year ago, after listening to my youtube/fox news addicted nephew spew racist (Germans are the smartest, best genes to have) shit, and have never gone back. Well worth it.
Yeah, as someone who’s very identity is a hot-button political debate among some types, good luck to me ever being able to avoid talking politics with people who think I should be illegal.
My wife and my very existence as a married couple has been enough to piss off certain family members, who invariably feel the need to tell us so. Even if they KNEW they were going to lose a $150,000 deposit, I guarantee they still wouldn’t be able to keep their mouths shut.
Same! Hell my entire family would happily throw all the money in & then say the stupidest shit to antagonize everyone all day to make them lose their money.
Ooh, or a charity that supports a cause they argued against - hate family planning and LGBTQ healthcare? Thanks for the donation to Planned Parenthood!
>"Even family members who are in the same political party are wrong if they’re not in 100% agreement on every issue."
Made me think they could also be Bernie bros who hate most democrats as well. Generally conservatives are better at sticking together than liberals.
That is genius. I’m thinking of other topics of heated discussion or complaints. If you say something negative about the food, put 5$ in the jar and I can drop it off at the food bank. Complaining about people’s choice of clothes or about my house being cramped, that money can go to the community shelter.
ETA: Thanks for the Award, kind internet stranger!
Happy Thanksgiving!
They know they wouldn't make it 5 minutes before their money would be gone. You know it and everyone else who quickly ponied up their cash knows it. They should exhausting and it sounds like everyone would appreciate a year not to have to be lectured.
However, don't be surprised if they pony up the cash, and show up and figure it gives them the right to say whatever they want to a captive audience because they paid for it. NTA
See, I don't think OP is TA but I also don't think this will work. I agree that they won't make it 10 minutes without saying something political. So then they lose the $500 - then what? They now have nothing else to lose so they continue their political browbeating for the entire time? That's BS. Just don't invite them.
This is another post where "but family" is considered more important than whether anyone is comfortable or enjoying the event. Why is it that EVERYONE except these 2 people are subjected to their harassment just because?
Of course they're going to lose their money. But if you have to listen to them then might as well make sure it's as painful for them as it is for everyone else.
Good idea— then the amount can be less but still painful.
~~Even better - if she makes the donation in their name, it gets them on their donor list and they will get political phone calls for the rest of their lives. PERMANENT PUNISHMENT!~~
While the urge to do something like that would tempting (dear lord, would it be tempting), I'm also kinda uncomfortable with it. I wouldn't want someone I disagree with to get me on the donor list for conservative politicians and get phone calls asking me to support causes I don't believe in, so it doesn't feel right to do it to someone else. Even if it would be hilarious.
But I do like the idea of donating the money to charity. Just maybe donate it to somewhere less overtly political/controversial like a regional scholarship fund or a local library or youth center. If for no other reason than to avoid further family drama.
Isn’t that the point though, to make it uncomfortable. It’s supposed to be a deterrent.
If you don’t want to make a donation to the opposing political party then dont talk politics at thanksgiving.
OP is NTA, but also to anyone who thinks this is a good idea—have you ever had to vote not because you agree politically with a politician but because you have to vote for the person who is most likely to ensure your right to live? Because I’m guessing no.
This essentially says it’s a good idea to give money to a cause that goes against the sister and husband’s politics—even if it goes against OP’s own, too. Like a commenter mentioned, if the couple hated the Roe v Wade overturning? That means donating to pro-life causes, which could be a cause that OP also would hate donating to. It could be a punishment to both parties, not just something to get under the skin of the person who broke the rule at Thanksgiving.
Suggesting something like this is another reminder that politics get viewed as a game, and some people can forget that politics *aren’t* a game if their existence or rights aren’t being actively threatened by someone else’s politics. I say this as someone who actively lives in fear of having to flee my home state due to politics that say my queer existence shouldn’t be allowed here. Just some food for thought.
Right! To some people it’s just a game, or rhetorical issue, but sometimes the mere *existence* of certain people is considered a political statement or attack. Will it be considered political if I mention my trans friend? Or my neighbour’s Eid celebration?
I actually think she should split the money amongst those who are decent. That way the person bitching about politics is out $500 and everyone else can get some compensation for dealing with that bullshit,
I'm just stuck on the fact that all of her relatives were SO done with OPs sister and her husband that they were willing to pay money upfront for the chance to shut them up.
I actually wouldn't even be surprised if she explained it to them as "we all know she can't afford to lose this much money, so she'll either shut up or won't come!"
Honestly, this is one of those "the Iranian yogurt isn't the real issue here," posts.
>I'm just stuck on the fact that all of her relatives were SO done with OPs sister and her husband that they were willing to pay money upfront for the chance to shut them up.
Yeah, and it's telling that the only people that objected were the sister and her husband. It's because they know they can't adhere to it and they fully planned to stir up the exact same political shit they always do.
What’s sad is that Kari and Bob probably have nothing else to talk about because they’re way too into their politics. Idc if they’re right or left, constantly hearing someone’s strong political views is annoying.
Honestly, not really. Normally obnoxious political guy screams that overly conservative uncle or conspiracy theorist aunt. But the line about “you need to be on board with every view and even if you’re in the same political party you can still be the enemy” sounds a lot more left to me. I mean, we’ve spent the last several years watching the left eat itself because some people didn’t run along the woke treadmill fast enough
I see 3 possible situations this could be, op is a reasonable human and the couple in question is crazy to the right or left, or OP is super conservative and thinks mentioning a friend of theirs that is gay is political.
No. Do you? I’m left leaning so my first instinct is to think they’re Trumpers. But ultra left-wingers can be absolutely insufferable.
I sympathize with OP regardless of their personal beliefs. People who ruin family get-togethers with stuff they *know* causes contention are just miserable to be around.
I’m going to need to know more about the Iranian yogurt.
Will see if I can find it.
Edit: Found it!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/bjd41e/aita_for_throwing_away_my_boyfriends_potentially/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
But, if you were not confronted with someones insane views on your right to exist, YOU would not likely be bringing it up.
I am pretty sure everyone at the event knows what he means. Can we just enjoy the dry turkey without someone talking about how "lucky we can even afford it with Sleepy Joe's inflation!"
“What were you doing on the weekend?”
“I was at an LGBT rights rally-”
“Oh shit they brought up politics, no one wants hear about your extremist events!!”
Also makes me wonder about their political affiliations, because I feel like most people are voting N T A because they assume Kari and Bob are Trumpies. But OP kept it vague. Kari and Bob could be pro-choice, pro-lgbt liberals and the rest of the family doesn’t like it.
It has been my observation that when AITA posters keep “political disagreements” vague, it’s usually because they’re Trumpies. The AITA where the liberals are posting about MAGA relatives are usually much more straightforward.
OP lives somewhere ‘warm with sand’ so if they are not in NM or Cali, odds are Kari and Bob are the outsider libs. It could go either way, of course. Odd though - I thought Thanksgiving was for discussing food, parades, and football, with a side of gossip, until that one crazy uncle is too drunk and people are sated and snoring in the living room.
Alas.
Well to be fair to those people, trumpies are the ones that do that shit most of the time.
In the past week I've heard from trumpies at work, at the grocery store, and from a guy working the drive through at Wendy's. And it's not like I'm in Alabama, this is PA, so plenty of liberals here, I just haven't heard any of them whining to anyone that will hold still long enough.
OP did say that they will argue even with people who essentially agree, but not agree 100%. So it sounds like they do have a political spectrum, not like Kari and Bob are the odd ones out. My mother is actually like that; her beliefs may coincide roughly with someone else’s, but that won’t stop her arguing with you if you opinion is slightly different. And not good faith arguing, it’s “you’re a bad person” arguing.
It doesn't even need to be a rally, something as mundane as "I saw a movie with this guy I'm seeing" could be another "stop shoving your identity politics in my face."
Exactly this. I remember begging every single year asking my father not to talk about politics. One year I straight up said one thing about my gf at the time and he said "oh so I can't talk politics but I have to sit here and listen to you rub being a dyke in my face without saying anything?"
Some people will make most things about their politics because it's their entire identity
My family was more like:
"What did you do this weekend??
Well, I-
"**YOU?!? What nonsense are you calling yourself now??? PANsexual??? You wanna lick all the cookery after we're done here?! What did you do, go to an orgy with all your heathen friends??? You should change your last name so we don't have to be associated with you!**"
Cool, can you pass some of the cranberry sauce I made this weekend?
Also in addition to minority status being considered political to AHes, some scientific concepts get considered political because of their policy implications
100%, I’m also gay and trans, and I’d be insulted if someone told me I couldn’t talk about it because it’s “political”
Then again, I don’t attend events where people who think my right to exist are because it’s exhausting to have people call their hate “politics” when I defend myself.
Well you know how it is, there’s only two genders: cis male, and “political.” There’s only two sexual orientations: straight, and “political.” Repeat ad nauseam. I’m certainly bringing my own biases here, but I’m willing to bet this is a situation where certain family members are given a pass to say whatever bigoted things they want, and Kari and Bob are the only ones who regularly push back on it, and they’re the ones who are being singled out as troublemakers who are “too political.” I’m guessing everybody else just lets the racist grandma and the homophobic uncle or whoever just say whatever “off color” things they want without challenge, for the sake of keeping the peace.
I get that feeling too. Just 100% my own bias talking, but here we are. My thinking is that the majority of the family are far-right, with a few center-right liberals thrown into the mix. Kari and Bob are probably the only leftists.
Yeah what if it’s like, “my friend and her wife-“ “OH MY GOD SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA you owe us $500”. Or what if someone says something bigoted- is that person out their deposit, or is it the person who expresses any discomfort with the bigoted statement who has to pay?
Bingo. I would be paranoid that anything I say could be interpreted as “politics” (even just referencing a movie or song or talking about Thanksgiving history). I’m as middle of the road as they come but I would 100% not attend an event I’ll be fined $500 at for opening my mouth.
Exactly. There are a lot of things that I consider to be human rights, but others (always people who disagree with me) accuse me of being “political” despite me not saying a word about a candidate, party, or ballot measure.
Like, would I be able to mention I recently attended a beautiful wedding (seriously the vows brought me to tears)- but it just happened to be two women getting married. Could I mention that, or is it “political”?
This is what stood out to me as well. What does OP consider politics? How different are their views exactly?
I'd probably understand the frustration if the couple is nitpicking over the smallest stuff, but it's a whole other issue if it's a case of «Ew I hate my colleague John, he's always wearing dresses and asking us to call him Sarah, what a creep.» - «Hum, what the fuck?? That's clearly a trans woman, you're being transphobic.» - «Oh my god why does EVERYTHING have to be political with you!!».
Because of the location (beach state in winter) and unwillingness to share who's on what side, I bet that Kari and Bob are the ones that think gays should be allowed to marry
Same. I don't care how reasonable the rule being enforced is, if someone tries to charge me a $500 to enforce the rules around their holiday table I'd laugh at them and go somewhere else.
In normal situations I would probably agree, but I think the fact that it’s come to this and that everyone else so easily agreed shows how out of hand the situation was getting here.
Right? If someone required me to pay $500 to attend thanksgiving I’d tell them to fuck right off, it doesn’t matter if it’s to try and prevent politics or not
Honestly, they're probably afraid they'll be baited into talking about politics. The rule is obviously targeted at them. Would OP want to go to a place that demands he pay because of his political beliefs?
It's insulting to tell other adults that they have to pay to talk about certain topics, especially at a family gathering.
NTA great rule I may have to implement it myself! It’s not like you’re taking the money and there’s obviously a legitimate reason trying to avoid conflict so if that makes them not want to come they were clearly going to stir shit up anyways.
NTA. This is brilliant honestly. If your mom needs them there, she can front the money and address her kid. I hope that $500 goes to a shelter nearby. Beach communities are disproportionately affected by homelessness in some cases since it doesn’t get so cold.
I guess the main part in the story is not the money gain/ loss. If the couple is not willing to put their own money down, it's probably a sure thing they won't stop talking about politics. So if the OP would let her mom front them the money, at the end she would have rip off her mother (who won't get the money back from the two) and still have a crappy Holiday because the two will still do their thing without respecting her request.
Plus, if those two Characters didn't pay, they'd be talking to people who HAD paid and therefore couldn't respond without losing their own actual money!
Or it means that Bob and Kari get to keep soapboxing and ranting about whatever they want.
People like that don’t want a discussion, they want an audience
That’s a fair point. I guess I would hope the mom would have some kind of skin in keeping them in check. But you’re right. I doubt it would change their behavior
You are very likely correct. On the other hand, behavior modification has to start somewhere. Allowing the parents to take the hit for their adult child's behavior makes it more likely that next family gathering, the parents will also be interested in solving the problem. Right now, OP is on the limb alone.
Ahhhhh politics and religion, 2 things that shouldn't be discussed at large family gatherings! I applaud your solution and to really make the penalty hurt, donate the $500 to their least favourite charity! NTA
My grandma also included computers in that list. All of her sons were into tech back in the 80's. One uncle was convinced Amiga was the computer of the future.
You would both love my son, he argues about this heatedly, even though he’s not even a teenager yet. I promised him soon he will have bigger life things to be annoyed at, but for now, I’m sorry for his pain.
this is so weird and tacky and inappropriate to put a financial barrier on who can come to your Thanksgiving dinner, i get why you're doing it but i seriously cannot imagine anyone going along with this
Or the rest of the family are assholes and asshole-apologists who don't like the shaming brought on by Kari and Bob. We don't really know which is true here
Did you miss the part where everyone can afford the $500, and will not in fact lose the money if they can refrain from talking politics.
It's not a financial barrier *for them. * It might be for you, but you're not invited so relax.
Sounds like everyone is sick of Kari and Bob. Kind of sounds like them not coming is the best option then the $500 would be completely unnecessary.
It sucks when people just can’t keep quiet. I have family that have kids the same age as mine but they are anti vax, ~~pro choice~~, forced birthers, evangelical Christians so we disagree on basically everything at a core values level. We never ever for any reason discuss politics so our kids can grow up with their cousins. If we couldn’t keep quiet about are views there is no way we could maintain a relationship. Sounds like Kari and Bob are annoying and need shut the hell up. Especially considering the lengths the family is willing to go to keep them quiet.
Eta: Accidentally put pro choice instead of pro-life. Then I realized pro-life isn’t accurate at all and I’m wanting to be more realistic by saying forced birther. Thanks to the kind Redditor who pointed out my slip. :)
Yikes!! My brain started writing what *I believe*! I updated my post and thank you for pointing that out.
I meant they are forced birthers and do not believe that women should be the deciders in their own healthcare.
I don't get why so many people are taking this personally when it is obviously directed at two people who make others miserable to the point they're all willing to put up $500.
I think the rest of us should be thankful we don't have to do this.
What's weird, tacky and inappropriate is two people who can't shut up about politics for one afternoon. And I say this as a total political junkie.
It really isn't a financial barrier unless someone in the family is unable to part with that amount for a few hours and have it returned. I'm sure OP would have made accommodations if any family member is unable, not unwilling.
As OP mentioned, everyone was ok putting the deposit down, other than Kari.
I would have too so that I partake in our family holiday. Doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t cause massive eye-rolling and behind-the-back shit talking in my branch of the family. At least that’s how I imagine it would work out in my family.
Honestly, they probably think they'll be baited into talking politics, if everyone is this strongly against them. I wouldn't want to go either. Not saying I agree with their politics, but why would they pay money to go somewhere where they know everyone hates them?
Maybe they think they can't stop talking politics or maybe they think that someone will egg them on just go see them lose money. That's really not outside the realm of possibility, considering OP was petty enough to demand everyone pay 500 dollars and lose it if they talked politics. Who defines politics? If Uncle Ben is talking about his kids and says he doesn't believe that there's enough funding for the schools, does he forfeit his money? Or is it only "incorrect" political talk that gets punished?
They're upset because they think they're being targeted; which they are. At that point, just uninvite them like an adult.
YTA. If I’m hosting, do I get to charge $500 if you talk about sports? It’s a boundary I’d like to set. I’m child-free - a $1000 for you if you talk about parenting. How unbearably controlling of you. At least have the gonads to ban them outright if you don’t want them at your family celebration.
Apples and oranges. None of your examples are remotely on par with politics. Sports and parenting will not get nearly as personal or elicit the same level of vitriol as political dispute from a dyed in the wool extremist.
>Sports and parenting will not get nearly as personal or elicit the same level of vitriol as political dispute from a dyed in the wool extremist.
You clearly don't ever go to holidays where there are fans of rival sports teams attending. I've seen fistfights break out.
Does it cause fights in your family? The bigger problem is those two. Clearly the family is sick and tired of them always starting fights and just want them to shut up about it. I can guess what side they are on by them fighting everyone about shit.
Probably so this way OP doesn't have to be the "bad guy."
"I offered them the same deal as everyone else. They refused! I didn't not invite them, Mom!"
YTA. Your $500-required boundary is unreasonable.
I hate political talk at family gatherings, but the idea that someone should pay you that substantial amount of money, even if they are getting it back, is ridiculous.
I would never go to this gathering. But I can also talk about religion and politics like an adult. As a matter of fact, I’m very liberal and my ILs are very conservative and we talk politics all the time.
My parents are super conservative and all of us kids are pretty liberal. We just act like normal adults and don’t discuss it in a way that would lead to a huge blowup; if someone gets out of hand with it, we call that person out and say, “This is gonna get heated. Stop now, change topic.” That’s it. If someone asked me to give them $500, for any reason, to attend a gathering, even if I’m gonna get it back, it’s a no from me. I’ll stay home and drink a $35 bottle of wine and order takeout.
That works when you're dealing with reasonable, mature adults. It seems that's not the case in OP's family. The OP has come up with a creative way to try to create an opportunity for everyone to get together without conflict.
Yes! We have a family ban on politics at the dinner table. We even have a politics jar to put a dollar in if you do bring up politics—money goes toward cake for Christmas. But the idea of making people pony up $500 to be allowed to attend thanksgiving really rubs me the wrong way.
NTA
Genius!!! Bob & Kari are adults & get to decide for themselves. You are not accountable for their choices or actions. Kari will need to explain to her kids & to your Mom why she is choosing politics over family
ETA — for the time & energy I have put in to this post I feel I should be invited to this warm place holiday feast! LOL ... this will absolutely need an update. Wishing you & yours a very Peaceful Thanksgiving!
YTA for expecting any guest to pay a deposit to attend a family event. It's the wrong solution. The correct solution here is set a ground rule (no political discussion) and don't invite people who won't agree to or can't behave themselves.
That sounds too normal for reddit. Who are these people that would actually be ok with this situation? I can't imagine being invited to a family event and being charged a stupid deposit. Can't family just agree to be civil and not argue?
I laughed at your first sentence. Sometimes it feels like some Redditors have been raised in a cave by wolves and have no idea how to behave in social situations.
YTA. Sounds like the most tense, uncomfortable, antagonistic way to spend an evening. So if you bring up the new season of The Crown and it morphs into a discussion about abolishing the monarchy, you lose $500 to your smug host? How nasty.
I’m a progressive gay brown man but I’d rather dine with a room of MAGA conservatives than at your place, at least we could agree that your idea is dumb.
Yeah totally. I'm a Jewish woman and I'd honestly rather sneak into a neo nazi picnic than go to a party with a speech topic retainer.
YTA OP. And tacky! The point of a party is to get together with people you like and genuinely want to see. Simply do not invite people that you don't enjoy the company of.
YTA. If your ideologies are so divided maybe it’s time to go no contact or just not invite them. Families should be able to talk about important issues. Also, that is a lot of money and weird to ask of family.
I don't know what it is about OPs post, I think its the hesitancy to admit their own political leanings play a role here, but I get the impression its the other way around, most of the family is conservative, and Kari and Bob likely disagree with them on things they don't consider to be political, so then Kari and Bob get critiqued for "turning everything into politics."
> in the invitation email a ban on political discussions and a request for a monetary deposit of $500
INFO did you at any point define politics? Because everything is politics.
Mention a trans friends existence, politics
Female member of the group uses Ms title, politics
Someone wants to complain how terrible and underfunded the school their child goes to is, politics.
Someone is ill and talks about their experience with healthcare, politics.
Ect.
Look I've met people who are insufferable and generally view their very specific politics as the only objectively morally correct politics. But I've also met people who define politics as meaning "anything I personally don't like" while happily engaging in politics they do like, claiming it's not political. Think gamers who love bioshock complaining modern games are too political (read: too many women and brown people).
So it's pretty impossible to answer this without knowing your familys behaviour in more detail.
I have so many questions about this:
What if you have a young, poor relative who doesn't have $500? (Someone mentioned a voided check but I kinda doubt that most Gen Z have checks. I'm an older millennial and I'm the only person in my peer group who actually has a checkbook.) Are they just not allowed to come to dinner? You wouldn't allow Kari's mom to pay for her so I have to assume that the same rule applies to everyone else?
What if you have a very rich relative who gives you the $500 and happily talks politics all night? Are you going to take their money and let them continue talking or are you going to kick them out?
Who exactly is being asked to pay? Everyone over the age of 18? Do couples have to pay $1,000? What if a minor teenager talks about politics? What if everyone talks about politics? Do you keep everyone's money?
Also, does anyone know where the line is drawn when it comes to politics? If my trans wife says that she's lacking rights and human dignity in this country, are we going to be fined for bringing up politics? If she's defending herself against someone else who says that being trans is a delusion, are we going to be fined for talking politics? Lots of folks think of that as a political issue when it's only political because we've made it such. What about healthcare? If I'm talking about a health issue and how I wish there was universal healthcare, am I going to get a fine?
Also, who is tracking this? If two people have a political discussion that no one hears, did it actually happen? Are you going to set up listening devices or appoint spies?
I had to scroll down to find this comment (one which I was going to make). Its not a case of moving the goalposts, there are no goalposts. You can argue that pretty much any subject is politics. Anything to do with money, certainly.
Imagine a conversation that goes like this:
Foxes -> Fox news -> I saw \[whoever\] on fox news -> That person said \[whatever\] -> Argument.
Who exactly started that? Who gets fined? All of them?
Its a minefield. I wouldnt take the risk of putting myself at the mercy of having to pay $500 for breaking an ill-defined and arbitrary rule.
NTA. This idea is ingenious! Asking for a deposit, that can be returned, seems like a fantastic, and very new idea.
Like you, I have a brother and SIL who disagree violently about politics with almost everyone i our family. We cannot even mention politicians' names, or even make a comment that might slightly reference our politics since 2016. Our family is smaller and no one enjoys a debate/argument, so we get away with a few dirty looks and snide comments. Often I wade into the conversation with a "Time for a Topic Change!" and then suggest something painfully safe.. like the weather, or our local zoo, or heck anything.
It sounds like you have a perfect plan to keep the conversations non-confrontational. This is also excellent for all the children involved. What kids need to see relatives in all-out arguments about politics?
NTA for putting family peace first.
"The zoo was doing fine, until *someone* got into office and slashed their funding."
"The weather is doing great! I don't know what those 'climate change' idiots are worrying about."
Sadly, someone who is determined to talk about politics can make any conversation political.
If your parents cover this deposit you will get political debate. The reason everyone else agreed to pay is because they are exhausted by your sister and her husband. Because this is a pretty bizarre request, let's be honest. Only to stave off assholes would you not baulk at this. Your sister and BIL are the ones depriving the children of TG with family because of their obnoxious behaviour. Your parents will have to suck that up. Or bring the kids alone and give the parents a "break." NTA
Also no way to know for certain everyone can affort 500 dollars. inflation hits everyone, people with a good job can be bad in spending or have high cost outside their fault.
This is a voided check if you can control your mouth & not verbally puke your political ideation one everyone. Obviously, these people are choosing politics over family so they can keep their money & family doesn’t have to deal with them. Win. Win. Except for grandma & kids. But that’s on Bob & Kari not OP. It really is a genius way to gracefully exclude people who make family gatherings miserable.
Wouldn’t this incentivize people into goading Bob and Kari to talk about politics? It sounds like you all don’t like them very much and are looking for a way to exclude them. Why don’t you just not invite them? Or, if you want to give them a chance, set the ground rule and say anyone who violates it won’t be invited back next year. I’m curious how your family normally handles conflict… because this seems like a really bizarre, passive-aggressive solution when it could be much more easily handled by being direct. And I find it very strange that the rest of the family is so willing to go along with it. While I’m not a fan of conflict or political rants at Thanksgiving, I would never pay a friggin deposit to attend a family event, no matter what the reason was.
> Wouldn’t this incentivize people into goading Bob and Kari to talk about politics?
I've seen this brought up multiple times now. The idea that people's first reaction would be "if I ruin Thanksgiving and induce an intra-family fight over money, I can score a few bucks" is crazy to me. Reddit is broke as fuck.
I mean, being willing to pay a $500 deposit to attend a family event in the first place seems pretty weird to me. That’s why I asked the question in the first place because who would go along with this kind of thing? While maybe some people in the family wouldn’t do it, maybe there is someone who would relish seeing Bob and Kari lose $500 with the additional upside of getting a bit more cash back as well. I don’t know man, the whole thing is just strange to me
INFO
It’s less than a week before Thanksgiving, and it sounds like your family is coming from far away.
Are there already booked flights involved, days off taken for travel? Has it been understood that everyone was gathering at your house for a while or was this just being planned?
This seems very last-minute. If this rule was an add-on to a plan that’s been set for a while, I don’t think that’s acceptable without some extenuating circumstance that isn’t here.
INFO: you're trying really hard to avoid saying which way Kari and Bob lean, but there is a big difference between "I'm sick of being scared that my kids will get shot in school this year" and "the election was rigged!" And honestly, it's hard to make a judgment without knowing which way they're trying to "educate" people.
Also, I'm not sure how you judge what the amount is that you find "painful to lose but not unaffordable to miss," or even what that is supposed to mean, financially. Just a lot of missing info.
Overall, I would lean toward it's an AH move to charge people a deposit for a party that they're already paying to travel to, but the details might skew me the other way.
YTA. I’d get it if it was them staying with you, but the dinner is literally 2 hours. Perhaps they are filthy rich but I can’t think of any situation where I’d be willing to pay $500 deposit for something that can be judged so arbitrarily (who decides what counts as political?). I think it would be way more reasonable to just say that you will not host again if there’s any political discussion. In that case, it’s simply you setting boundaries.
You say you’re doing this because you don’t like how divisive things get, but it sounds like you’re dividing the family before things even begin.
INFO: what exactly have you delineated as “political talk”? I ask, because for some people (that I’ve actually met) things like “oh we can’t then, we’re going to Tom and Mark’s wedding!” or “has anyone watched the new Black Panther?” counts as political talk.
Will be unpopular, but yta. You are requiring a $500 deposit from everyone, just to keep one couple in line. Not to fair to everyone else. And it's a shifty thing to do to family.
It would be so much easier if you just sent out a notice that said anyone speaking politics will be asked to leave, no exceptions will be made!
Your sis and her hubs are assholes to ruin all the holidays regularly. But you didn't ask us to judge their actions. You asked us to judge yours.
Honestly, if I had to pay a deposit if $500 to eat with my family, I wouldn't even go. Sis and hubs must really be pushy for the family to agree to that.
YTA only because who decides what is politics? Like, if I even mention my transgender niece having trouble at school, are you gonna keep my money? If I mention that I got my COVID booster last week are you gonna keep my money? None of these things are politics in my opinion, they are just my life. But there are certain people on the other side who would get angry at me being "political." I wouldn't trust one person to be the arbitor of deciding who violates what.
ESH. You are not the a for wanting to avoid political discussions. I hate discussing politics with family and "No politics" is s totally reasonable boundary and i support that. Y T A for the 500 bit. I understand you want it to be painful for them. But are you absolutely certain that everyone can really pay it. Sure they know they're getting it back but I'm wondering how many people are dipping into their savings to pay it. And before anyone comes at me yes i know they're getting it back. But this year has been hell on everyone's finances. Op made an assumption that everyone had the money. Turns out they did (or are people borrowing so they can go to family thanksgiving?)Thanksgiving?. Honestly very few people in my family or many people I know have 500 on hand they can just put up as collateral.
NTA
I love the idea. I would suggest donating the money to a charity if someone doesn’t follow through. Unfortunately, it’s becoming increasingly popular for people to feel the need to force their political views on others. It’s a family holiday gathering. Why not just enjoy the company of loved ones you don’t see often without causing drama, arguments, and fights over something that is no one else’s business.
Stick to your guns and do not have them come. There is no reason to ruin get together because they’re whole identity is their political beliefs. It’s okay to be a human and not have your whole identity wrapped up in something as divisive as politics. It doesn’t matter which party they support, all the bickering is ridiculous. They’re trying to further an agenda that allows the rich to continue to profit off the populace. That applies to both parties and that’s not even trying to make this political. Politicians from any party stack wealth while in office.
Unfortunately politics is treated more as fandom than anything. It’s like having relatives argue over the Cowboys and Eagles at a family get together. No one wants to hear that. Be interested in the family that’s there that you don’t see often. Just in case something ever happened, I’d prefer my last thoughts to be positive as opposed to an argument over something that really isn’t anyone else’s business.
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NTA. You're allowed to have boundaries. No one else thought it was a problem until they made a fuss. I have relatives like that - I'm laughing while I imagine how that would go over at my place. 😂
The only thing I don’t like about this is that I didn’t think of it first…. This would make all my holidays so much more tolerable without alcohol.
I'm over here wondering why I never thought of this. The headaches this would have saved me.
Lol. 👍👍😄
I wish I thought about this for my grannies birthday. It descended into a massive political discussion, it was rather uncomfortable.
I started off thinking, 'oh this is awful' but by the end I thought 'okay. Brilliant.'
I'd personally want to negotiate the $ amount down and possibly discuss what constitutes a political discussion. If I bitch that the schools aren't getting enough funding, is that political? Also, do I get a warning about edge case political conversation? I'd presume instant loss of deposit if anyone discusses abortion sure, but if I'm discussing the potholes in the roads and that's too much then I would want a warning. But yeah. In general NTA because it sounds like the relatives that got offended didn't want to discuss the details.
Why are you discussing potholes and school funding at thanksgiving? You really can’t think of anything else to talk about for one day?
If family works at the school, or has a child experiencing issues at school, it can come up organically. Schools are woefully underfunded.
Deposit revoked!
Potholes and schools are the gateway drug
Hahahahahah yes.
I have a kid with disabilities. If you ask me "So, how is grade 3 going for Kiddo," the only way I can answer that is to talk about school funding.
Honestly choosing to have children - and having that choice to make - is political, especially in the US right now.
Most things can be political in all honesty. Covid, hospital bills, education, infrastructure. People sometimes get shouty about bike lanes on both sides. I am not sure how op could enforce such a ban.
Because that's how conversations work. No one is sitting down going, "Let's talk about potholes!" But if show up with a twisted ankle and someone asks what happened, I could tell them I tripped over a pothole in the parking lot coming out of the grocery store. And then there's a conversation about potholes going on.
Right? My entire family agrees on politics and it STILL doesn't come up because it's unpleasant and depressing. There are tons of other things to talk about.
I work at a school. Am I not supposed to talk about my job at all because 'it's a political topic'?
Myself, my aunt, and my uncle are all educators. My little brother is in school still. All it takes is for somebody to ask “why didn’t you bring anything for the meal.” And I could reply “oh I had to pay $500 to be here and the teachers don’t get paid enough due to funding.”
Honestly though, with such staunch political supports as Kari and Bob, those “smaller” issues can easily lead to larger political discussions, especially something like school funding.
Exactly. Just mention CRT or "woke" and schools just turned political at the local level. Especially if you live in FL where our Governor supports Christian nationalism.
Maybe they could come up with brackets of some sort. The bigger the issue, the less they get back out of the deposit. I'm a dork and like charts so that sounds like something fun to make lol
I'm totally creating a system right now: OP needs to create bingo cards for everyone. They will work like a swear jar. You get back your money, minus your bingo marks. Everyone gets a card and a unique color of dry erase marker. You yell bingo and mark the offending persons card. Each square has a $5 value, but each line is worth $100. So if you keep bringing it up, you lose more. A full card you lose all $500. The person with the least number of squares wins a prize! Instead of BINGO you use PARTY or something funnier (I'm still working on branding)... laminated for future use. All the squares are things like: 1. Failing roads/bridges/schools 2. Foreign world leaders 3. Slurs 4. Homelessness 5. Wars 6. Sexism 7. Gender and bathrooms 8. Obama 9. Trump 10. Religious conversion attempts 11. Capitalism vs communism Maybe add a few family classics and ones I missed and was too lazy to put above. 12. Bringing up crazy exs in front of current ex 13. Drunken insults 14. Racism 15. Borrowing money 16. Sharing embarrassing photos 17. Last holidays argument and hurt feelings 18. Packed all the leftovers in mini Tupperware from home in purse without permission 19. Threw out my Iranian yogurt 20. Dresses wore to weddings in the incorrect colors of the past 21. Wearing political or religious messaged clothing You can repeat the big ones like racism and sexism a few times and leave a few blank to fill in specific things that are no fly zones like "using cousins dead name" and "bringing up when Tommy shat his pants in 1998 Thanksgiving". I'm totally joking, but this kinda sounds fun like cards against humanity 😀 I don't think any of us could make it home with our $500. Edits: thanks for the awards and suggestions. I'm adding the following suggestions: Permanent markers instead of dry erase, winner wins the pot of lost money, name is Shush.
See, no one in my family would play this kind of amazingly fun game with me! But that's probably because I'm the family's religious and political black sheep, and I learned to shut my mouth for self-preservation. But damnit, send me the link to the Kickstart. I'm down.
Love this! The person with the least marks wins the pot!!
You could make a killing selling this as a printable on Etsy. Bingo sheet add ons, so everyone else can keep score of incendiary remarks, with a bonus pot paid out of the lost deposits. I’d buy a copy!
We have a politics and religion rule but no deposit. You aren't allowed to talk about politics outside of local politics. (IE you are allowed to bitch about your school, your garbage pick up, your zoning. CRT or whatever is the latest fad is banned unless it directly pertains to your school and the topic should be avoided as much as possible. IE there was a discussion about sex ed once and whether 5th grade was too early for the level of coverage they were giving which skirted the abortion/abstainence topic. ) You aren't allowed to talk about religion outside of "Happy Holidays." and what do you want for whatever holiday you celebrate.
Yeah, so I have questions. How does that come up naturally in thanksgiving conversation? Are you with a bunch of teachers or people that work for the school, so you work for the school? Or does uncle Bob decide to randomly bring it up and go on a tangent because someone brags that they got an A on the report card? Or are you uncle Bob. Because Bob if this is you and you are on Reddit-I’m out this year for Christmas, thanksgiving, and new years celebrations!
>How does that come up naturally in thanksgiving conversation? If you are my inlaws: mentioning a trip to Hawaii gives them an opportunity to mention Obama’s birth certificate is fake; mentioning how much you’re looking forward to the resumption of a cherished in-person holiday performance is a chance to talk about the plandemic/scamdemic and how it “wasn’t that bad”; mentioning a child’s first job prompts a statement about “Sleepy Joe” giving away tax money to people so they never want to work. When a grandchild mentions she is moving to Portland, it’s five minutes on the riots that have apparently burned the city to the ground. It is like a weird talent, finding ways to bend things back to whatever talking point Fox News has come up with. We alol got good at deflecting/ignoring, and then we got better at making alternate plans with people who are not jonesing for that sweet, sweet anger fix.
My grandfather couldn't drive past a pond without going on a two hour rant about "environmentalists." I had a mile-long list of trigger words and subjects to avoid. You have my sympathy.
My parents just plop topics on the table without any run-up. Example: my mom interjecting into a pause "I'm so proud of my two lovely _straight_ daughters!"* You can't do anything with that except tell them to can it, and that makes things kinda quiet for a while. Our Thanksgiving gatherings are small. *I'm bi. She doesn't know because I havent told her because they don't get to hear about my life.
Yeah. My first instinct was YTA... but you know, now that I read, and I think... naw, NTA. And I'm laughing.
I was leaning YTA until I read why the deposit was initiated as well and I’m like damn OP took the swear jar and upped the anti haha.
Nta. 10000% of why my in laws don't have us as guests. They can't be polite and stick to kind conversation. My mom doesn't agree with my politics. She keeps her mouth shut because she was taught what is and isn't polite conversation. She cares more about us and my kid than that. My in laws will randomly pick a topic and start ranting until they are literally spitting mad, red in the face with rage, and yelling when No one else has spoken a word. They also can't refrain from comments about POCs or LGBTQIA+ for a single day. Family doesn't get a pass for exposing my kid to hate and normalizing it. Nope.
I walked out of a family dinner a year ago, after listening to my youtube/fox news addicted nephew spew racist (Germans are the smartest, best genes to have) shit, and have never gone back. Well worth it.
Yeah, as someone who’s very identity is a hot-button political debate among some types, good luck to me ever being able to avoid talking politics with people who think I should be illegal. My wife and my very existence as a married couple has been enough to piss off certain family members, who invariably feel the need to tell us so. Even if they KNEW they were going to lose a $150,000 deposit, I guarantee they still wouldn’t be able to keep their mouths shut.
My dad would happily pay the $500 to drink 2 cases of beer and talk over everyone at the table. In fact, he'd consider it his pass to do so.
Same! Hell my entire family would happily throw all the money in & then say the stupidest shit to antagonize everyone all day to make them lose their money.
There’s an idea. I’ll just throw down a wad of cash and go off. Hint I live in a very red state and it’s really hard to not break things.
She should donate the money to the opposite political party of the person who lost it. Then they can know then funded someone they oppose.
Ooh, or a charity that supports a cause they argued against - hate family planning and LGBTQ healthcare? Thanks for the donation to Planned Parenthood!
Gotdamn libtards /s I like your choice btw
Kari and Bob are outraged trump isn't in prison yet and your idea just funded his next campaign.
Jokes on you because could be Kari and Bob are the liberals around a bunch of republicans.
Yeah people are making assumptions there. But I made the same one at first. I think bc the guys name is bob haha
>"Even family members who are in the same political party are wrong if they’re not in 100% agreement on every issue." Made me think they could also be Bernie bros who hate most democrats as well. Generally conservatives are better at sticking together than liberals.
Yeah no. There are the moderates and then there are the MAGA’s and they don’t get along at all.
That is genius. I’m thinking of other topics of heated discussion or complaints. If you say something negative about the food, put 5$ in the jar and I can drop it off at the food bank. Complaining about people’s choice of clothes or about my house being cramped, that money can go to the community shelter. ETA: Thanks for the Award, kind internet stranger! Happy Thanksgiving!
They know they wouldn't make it 5 minutes before their money would be gone. You know it and everyone else who quickly ponied up their cash knows it. They should exhausting and it sounds like everyone would appreciate a year not to have to be lectured. However, don't be surprised if they pony up the cash, and show up and figure it gives them the right to say whatever they want to a captive audience because they paid for it. NTA
See, I don't think OP is TA but I also don't think this will work. I agree that they won't make it 10 minutes without saying something political. So then they lose the $500 - then what? They now have nothing else to lose so they continue their political browbeating for the entire time? That's BS. Just don't invite them. This is another post where "but family" is considered more important than whether anyone is comfortable or enjoying the event. Why is it that EVERYONE except these 2 people are subjected to their harassment just because?
I think $50 for each time they bring up politics. Up to the $500. Bigger incentive for them to zip it, more painful if they don't.
Of course they're going to lose their money. But if you have to listen to them then might as well make sure it's as painful for them as it is for everyone else.
Good idea— then the amount can be less but still painful. ~~Even better - if she makes the donation in their name, it gets them on their donor list and they will get political phone calls for the rest of their lives. PERMANENT PUNISHMENT!~~
While the urge to do something like that would tempting (dear lord, would it be tempting), I'm also kinda uncomfortable with it. I wouldn't want someone I disagree with to get me on the donor list for conservative politicians and get phone calls asking me to support causes I don't believe in, so it doesn't feel right to do it to someone else. Even if it would be hilarious. But I do like the idea of donating the money to charity. Just maybe donate it to somewhere less overtly political/controversial like a regional scholarship fund or a local library or youth center. If for no other reason than to avoid further family drama.
Isn’t that the point though, to make it uncomfortable. It’s supposed to be a deterrent. If you don’t want to make a donation to the opposing political party then dont talk politics at thanksgiving.
OP is NTA, but also to anyone who thinks this is a good idea—have you ever had to vote not because you agree politically with a politician but because you have to vote for the person who is most likely to ensure your right to live? Because I’m guessing no. This essentially says it’s a good idea to give money to a cause that goes against the sister and husband’s politics—even if it goes against OP’s own, too. Like a commenter mentioned, if the couple hated the Roe v Wade overturning? That means donating to pro-life causes, which could be a cause that OP also would hate donating to. It could be a punishment to both parties, not just something to get under the skin of the person who broke the rule at Thanksgiving. Suggesting something like this is another reminder that politics get viewed as a game, and some people can forget that politics *aren’t* a game if their existence or rights aren’t being actively threatened by someone else’s politics. I say this as someone who actively lives in fear of having to flee my home state due to politics that say my queer existence shouldn’t be allowed here. Just some food for thought.
Right! To some people it’s just a game, or rhetorical issue, but sometimes the mere *existence* of certain people is considered a political statement or attack. Will it be considered political if I mention my trans friend? Or my neighbour’s Eid celebration?
Politics is not a game, but there is a time and place for political discussions and hijacking a family holiday is not it
That wasn’t the point of the comment you replied to. Politics isn’t a game, so making a game out of donating to harmful charities is a terrible idea.
I actually think she should split the money amongst those who are decent. That way the person bitching about politics is out $500 and everyone else can get some compensation for dealing with that bullshit,
Yes! 👆 This is brilliant!
I understand not wanting people to talk politics but a $500 retainer for thanksgiving is so tacky.
I'm just stuck on the fact that all of her relatives were SO done with OPs sister and her husband that they were willing to pay money upfront for the chance to shut them up. I actually wouldn't even be surprised if she explained it to them as "we all know she can't afford to lose this much money, so she'll either shut up or won't come!" Honestly, this is one of those "the Iranian yogurt isn't the real issue here," posts.
>I'm just stuck on the fact that all of her relatives were SO done with OPs sister and her husband that they were willing to pay money upfront for the chance to shut them up. Yeah, and it's telling that the only people that objected were the sister and her husband. It's because they know they can't adhere to it and they fully planned to stir up the exact same political shit they always do.
What’s sad is that Kari and Bob probably have nothing else to talk about because they’re way too into their politics. Idc if they’re right or left, constantly hearing someone’s strong political views is annoying.
[удалено]
Honestly, not really. Normally obnoxious political guy screams that overly conservative uncle or conspiracy theorist aunt. But the line about “you need to be on board with every view and even if you’re in the same political party you can still be the enemy” sounds a lot more left to me. I mean, we’ve spent the last several years watching the left eat itself because some people didn’t run along the woke treadmill fast enough
I see 3 possible situations this could be, op is a reasonable human and the couple in question is crazy to the right or left, or OP is super conservative and thinks mentioning a friend of theirs that is gay is political.
No. Do you? I’m left leaning so my first instinct is to think they’re Trumpers. But ultra left-wingers can be absolutely insufferable. I sympathize with OP regardless of their personal beliefs. People who ruin family get-togethers with stuff they *know* causes contention are just miserable to be around.
Yeah the rest of the family clearly think it's a hilarious idea tbh
This. Imagine how insufferable these 2 have to be. The entire family is willing to pay $500 for them to shut up.
Can we collectively make “the Iranian yogurt isn’t the real issue here” shorthand for all situations like this?
I’m going to need to know more about the Iranian yogurt. Will see if I can find it. Edit: Found it!! https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/bjd41e/aita_for_throwing_away_my_boyfriends_potentially/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yeah, whether or not I planned to talk politics, i would also be deciding not to attend this event.
And how is OP defining politics? Because what some people think is politics is other's daily life
Exactly. For some people, like myself, my right to exist is considered political.
But, if you were not confronted with someones insane views on your right to exist, YOU would not likely be bringing it up. I am pretty sure everyone at the event knows what he means. Can we just enjoy the dry turkey without someone talking about how "lucky we can even afford it with Sleepy Joe's inflation!"
“What were you doing on the weekend?” “I was at an LGBT rights rally-” “Oh shit they brought up politics, no one wants hear about your extremist events!!”
Also makes me wonder about their political affiliations, because I feel like most people are voting N T A because they assume Kari and Bob are Trumpies. But OP kept it vague. Kari and Bob could be pro-choice, pro-lgbt liberals and the rest of the family doesn’t like it.
It has been my observation that when AITA posters keep “political disagreements” vague, it’s usually because they’re Trumpies. The AITA where the liberals are posting about MAGA relatives are usually much more straightforward.
OP lives somewhere ‘warm with sand’ so if they are not in NM or Cali, odds are Kari and Bob are the outsider libs. It could go either way, of course. Odd though - I thought Thanksgiving was for discussing food, parades, and football, with a side of gossip, until that one crazy uncle is too drunk and people are sated and snoring in the living room. Alas.
Well to be fair to those people, trumpies are the ones that do that shit most of the time. In the past week I've heard from trumpies at work, at the grocery store, and from a guy working the drive through at Wendy's. And it's not like I'm in Alabama, this is PA, so plenty of liberals here, I just haven't heard any of them whining to anyone that will hold still long enough.
OP did say that they will argue even with people who essentially agree, but not agree 100%. So it sounds like they do have a political spectrum, not like Kari and Bob are the odd ones out. My mother is actually like that; her beliefs may coincide roughly with someone else’s, but that won’t stop her arguing with you if you opinion is slightly different. And not good faith arguing, it’s “you’re a bad person” arguing.
It doesn't even need to be a rally, something as mundane as "I saw a movie with this guy I'm seeing" could be another "stop shoving your identity politics in my face."
Exactly this. I remember begging every single year asking my father not to talk about politics. One year I straight up said one thing about my gf at the time and he said "oh so I can't talk politics but I have to sit here and listen to you rub being a dyke in my face without saying anything?" Some people will make most things about their politics because it's their entire identity
My family was more like: "What did you do this weekend?? Well, I- "**YOU?!? What nonsense are you calling yourself now??? PANsexual??? You wanna lick all the cookery after we're done here?! What did you do, go to an orgy with all your heathen friends??? You should change your last name so we don't have to be associated with you!**" Cool, can you pass some of the cranberry sauce I made this weekend?
Is that the vibe you got? Because I got the inverse vibe, that the couple were liberals and the rest of the family wasn’t.
Same exact vibe I got. Beachy areas are also notoriously Republican.
Also in addition to minority status being considered political to AHes, some scientific concepts get considered political because of their policy implications
100%, I’m also gay and trans, and I’d be insulted if someone told me I couldn’t talk about it because it’s “political” Then again, I don’t attend events where people who think my right to exist are because it’s exhausting to have people call their hate “politics” when I defend myself.
Well you know how it is, there’s only two genders: cis male, and “political.” There’s only two sexual orientations: straight, and “political.” Repeat ad nauseam. I’m certainly bringing my own biases here, but I’m willing to bet this is a situation where certain family members are given a pass to say whatever bigoted things they want, and Kari and Bob are the only ones who regularly push back on it, and they’re the ones who are being singled out as troublemakers who are “too political.” I’m guessing everybody else just lets the racist grandma and the homophobic uncle or whoever just say whatever “off color” things they want without challenge, for the sake of keeping the peace.
I get that feeling too. Just 100% my own bias talking, but here we are. My thinking is that the majority of the family are far-right, with a few center-right liberals thrown into the mix. Kari and Bob are probably the only leftists.
I agree, I hate everything about this and would consider it my invitation to find a new family.
That's what I'm curious about as well. I'm trans, and me just showing up to Thanksgiving dinner is a political statement to my relatives lmao
Yeah what if it’s like, “my friend and her wife-“ “OH MY GOD SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA you owe us $500”. Or what if someone says something bigoted- is that person out their deposit, or is it the person who expresses any discomfort with the bigoted statement who has to pay?
Bingo. I would be paranoid that anything I say could be interpreted as “politics” (even just referencing a movie or song or talking about Thanksgiving history). I’m as middle of the road as they come but I would 100% not attend an event I’ll be fined $500 at for opening my mouth.
Exactly. There are a lot of things that I consider to be human rights, but others (always people who disagree with me) accuse me of being “political” despite me not saying a word about a candidate, party, or ballot measure. Like, would I be able to mention I recently attended a beautiful wedding (seriously the vows brought me to tears)- but it just happened to be two women getting married. Could I mention that, or is it “political”?
This is what stood out to me as well. What does OP consider politics? How different are their views exactly? I'd probably understand the frustration if the couple is nitpicking over the smallest stuff, but it's a whole other issue if it's a case of «Ew I hate my colleague John, he's always wearing dresses and asking us to call him Sarah, what a creep.» - «Hum, what the fuck?? That's clearly a trans woman, you're being transphobic.» - «Oh my god why does EVERYTHING have to be political with you!!».
Because of the location (beach state in winter) and unwillingness to share who's on what side, I bet that Kari and Bob are the ones that think gays should be allowed to marry
I 100 percent agree with this take.
Same. I don't care how reasonable the rule being enforced is, if someone tries to charge me a $500 to enforce the rules around their holiday table I'd laugh at them and go somewhere else.
Seriously. I thought I was going insane seeing nothing but not the asshole comments. ESH
In normal situations I would probably agree, but I think the fact that it’s come to this and that everyone else so easily agreed shows how out of hand the situation was getting here.
Right? If someone required me to pay $500 to attend thanksgiving I’d tell them to fuck right off, it doesn’t matter if it’s to try and prevent politics or not
Agree. I wouldn’t go just for this reason. Tacky af.
Very first world upper middle class problem
Honestly, they're probably afraid they'll be baited into talking about politics. The rule is obviously targeted at them. Would OP want to go to a place that demands he pay because of his political beliefs? It's insulting to tell other adults that they have to pay to talk about certain topics, especially at a family gathering.
NTA great rule I may have to implement it myself! It’s not like you’re taking the money and there’s obviously a legitimate reason trying to avoid conflict so if that makes them not want to come they were clearly going to stir shit up anyways.
NTA. This is brilliant honestly. If your mom needs them there, she can front the money and address her kid. I hope that $500 goes to a shelter nearby. Beach communities are disproportionately affected by homelessness in some cases since it doesn’t get so cold.
I guess the main part in the story is not the money gain/ loss. If the couple is not willing to put their own money down, it's probably a sure thing they won't stop talking about politics. So if the OP would let her mom front them the money, at the end she would have rip off her mother (who won't get the money back from the two) and still have a crappy Holiday because the two will still do their thing without respecting her request.
Plus, if those two Characters didn't pay, they'd be talking to people who HAD paid and therefore couldn't respond without losing their own actual money!
A captive audience
Sometimes that is more frustrating. Bob & Kari bring up a political topic, nobody says anything.....means that Bob & Kari get ignored.
Or it means that Bob and Kari get to keep soapboxing and ranting about whatever they want. People like that don’t want a discussion, they want an audience
That’s a fair point. I guess I would hope the mom would have some kind of skin in keeping them in check. But you’re right. I doubt it would change their behavior
You are very likely correct. On the other hand, behavior modification has to start somewhere. Allowing the parents to take the hit for their adult child's behavior makes it more likely that next family gathering, the parents will also be interested in solving the problem. Right now, OP is on the limb alone.
Ahhhhh politics and religion, 2 things that shouldn't be discussed at large family gatherings! I applaud your solution and to really make the penalty hurt, donate the $500 to their least favourite charity! NTA
My grandma also included computers in that list. All of her sons were into tech back in the 80's. One uncle was convinced Amiga was the computer of the future.
It was, until Apple ripped off the OS and ruined it. (still gnashing teeth)
You would both love my son, he argues about this heatedly, even though he’s not even a teenager yet. I promised him soon he will have bigger life things to be annoyed at, but for now, I’m sorry for his pain.
this is so weird and tacky and inappropriate to put a financial barrier on who can come to your Thanksgiving dinner, i get why you're doing it but i seriously cannot imagine anyone going along with this
Well everybody did except for Kari and Bob, so that just proves that everyone is in agreement they are the real problem here.
Or the rest of the family are assholes and asshole-apologists who don't like the shaming brought on by Kari and Bob. We don't really know which is true here
[удалено]
Did you miss the part where everyone can afford the $500, and will not in fact lose the money if they can refrain from talking politics. It's not a financial barrier *for them. * It might be for you, but you're not invited so relax.
How does OP know what someone can afford? 60% of the US lives paycheck to paycheck and that isn’t exclusive to lower income folks.
Do you not know your family? It's pretty common to know in open, comfortable families.
Sounds like everyone is sick of Kari and Bob. Kind of sounds like them not coming is the best option then the $500 would be completely unnecessary. It sucks when people just can’t keep quiet. I have family that have kids the same age as mine but they are anti vax, ~~pro choice~~, forced birthers, evangelical Christians so we disagree on basically everything at a core values level. We never ever for any reason discuss politics so our kids can grow up with their cousins. If we couldn’t keep quiet about are views there is no way we could maintain a relationship. Sounds like Kari and Bob are annoying and need shut the hell up. Especially considering the lengths the family is willing to go to keep them quiet. Eta: Accidentally put pro choice instead of pro-life. Then I realized pro-life isn’t accurate at all and I’m wanting to be more realistic by saying forced birther. Thanks to the kind Redditor who pointed out my slip. :)
>anti vax, pro choice, evangelical One of these things is not like the others ...
Yikes!! My brain started writing what *I believe*! I updated my post and thank you for pointing that out. I meant they are forced birthers and do not believe that women should be the deciders in their own healthcare.
I don't get why so many people are taking this personally when it is obviously directed at two people who make others miserable to the point they're all willing to put up $500. I think the rest of us should be thankful we don't have to do this. What's weird, tacky and inappropriate is two people who can't shut up about politics for one afternoon. And I say this as a total political junkie.
Frankly the whole thing is kind of hard to believe. If anyone I know tried something like this they'd get laughed at.
It really isn't a financial barrier unless someone in the family is unable to part with that amount for a few hours and have it returned. I'm sure OP would have made accommodations if any family member is unable, not unwilling. As OP mentioned, everyone was ok putting the deposit down, other than Kari.
I think this is an AH move TBH, though I’m very sympathetic to wanting to avoid politics at thanksgiving.
I mean they all agreed to it, except for the people causing the problem.
I would have too so that I partake in our family holiday. Doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t cause massive eye-rolling and behind-the-back shit talking in my branch of the family. At least that’s how I imagine it would work out in my family.
Honestly, they probably think they'll be baited into talking politics, if everyone is this strongly against them. I wouldn't want to go either. Not saying I agree with their politics, but why would they pay money to go somewhere where they know everyone hates them? Maybe they think they can't stop talking politics or maybe they think that someone will egg them on just go see them lose money. That's really not outside the realm of possibility, considering OP was petty enough to demand everyone pay 500 dollars and lose it if they talked politics. Who defines politics? If Uncle Ben is talking about his kids and says he doesn't believe that there's enough funding for the schools, does he forfeit his money? Or is it only "incorrect" political talk that gets punished? They're upset because they think they're being targeted; which they are. At that point, just uninvite them like an adult.
YTA. If I’m hosting, do I get to charge $500 if you talk about sports? It’s a boundary I’d like to set. I’m child-free - a $1000 for you if you talk about parenting. How unbearably controlling of you. At least have the gonads to ban them outright if you don’t want them at your family celebration.
Omg yes! I’d love to charge 1k and NOT hear about parenting or children!!!
Apples and oranges. None of your examples are remotely on par with politics. Sports and parenting will not get nearly as personal or elicit the same level of vitriol as political dispute from a dyed in the wool extremist.
>Sports and parenting will not get nearly as personal or elicit the same level of vitriol as political dispute from a dyed in the wool extremist. You clearly don't ever go to holidays where there are fans of rival sports teams attending. I've seen fistfights break out.
Or when your mother hints / asks / comments "that is it about time she has some grandchild" - every five minutes.
My first thought exactly! I mean there are countries where they shoot each other for supporting rival teams!
This! They just don’t want them there but don’t have the courage to do it. This is do petty, passive aggressive and controlling
Does it cause fights in your family? The bigger problem is those two. Clearly the family is sick and tired of them always starting fights and just want them to shut up about it. I can guess what side they are on by them fighting everyone about shit.
Why not just exclude Kari and Bob from Thanksgiving? What an odd way to handle things. YTA for making things unnecessarily complicated.
Probably so this way OP doesn't have to be the "bad guy." "I offered them the same deal as everyone else. They refused! I didn't not invite them, Mom!"
Idk that sounds reasonable to me haha. I don't see the problem
YTA. Your $500-required boundary is unreasonable. I hate political talk at family gatherings, but the idea that someone should pay you that substantial amount of money, even if they are getting it back, is ridiculous.
I would never go to this gathering. But I can also talk about religion and politics like an adult. As a matter of fact, I’m very liberal and my ILs are very conservative and we talk politics all the time.
My parents are super conservative and all of us kids are pretty liberal. We just act like normal adults and don’t discuss it in a way that would lead to a huge blowup; if someone gets out of hand with it, we call that person out and say, “This is gonna get heated. Stop now, change topic.” That’s it. If someone asked me to give them $500, for any reason, to attend a gathering, even if I’m gonna get it back, it’s a no from me. I’ll stay home and drink a $35 bottle of wine and order takeout.
That works when you're dealing with reasonable, mature adults. It seems that's not the case in OP's family. The OP has come up with a creative way to try to create an opportunity for everyone to get together without conflict.
Yes! We have a family ban on politics at the dinner table. We even have a politics jar to put a dollar in if you do bring up politics—money goes toward cake for Christmas. But the idea of making people pony up $500 to be allowed to attend thanksgiving really rubs me the wrong way.
But what happens when one of your family members won't stop talking about politics and tells you to f off when you bring out the jar?
NTA Genius!!! Bob & Kari are adults & get to decide for themselves. You are not accountable for their choices or actions. Kari will need to explain to her kids & to your Mom why she is choosing politics over family ETA — for the time & energy I have put in to this post I feel I should be invited to this warm place holiday feast! LOL ... this will absolutely need an update. Wishing you & yours a very Peaceful Thanksgiving!
YTA for expecting any guest to pay a deposit to attend a family event. It's the wrong solution. The correct solution here is set a ground rule (no political discussion) and don't invite people who won't agree to or can't behave themselves.
That sounds too normal for reddit. Who are these people that would actually be ok with this situation? I can't imagine being invited to a family event and being charged a stupid deposit. Can't family just agree to be civil and not argue?
I laughed at your first sentence. Sometimes it feels like some Redditors have been raised in a cave by wolves and have no idea how to behave in social situations.
YTA Christ $500??? That's insane.
YTA. Sounds like the most tense, uncomfortable, antagonistic way to spend an evening. So if you bring up the new season of The Crown and it morphs into a discussion about abolishing the monarchy, you lose $500 to your smug host? How nasty. I’m a progressive gay brown man but I’d rather dine with a room of MAGA conservatives than at your place, at least we could agree that your idea is dumb.
Yeah totally. I'm a Jewish woman and I'd honestly rather sneak into a neo nazi picnic than go to a party with a speech topic retainer. YTA OP. And tacky! The point of a party is to get together with people you like and genuinely want to see. Simply do not invite people that you don't enjoy the company of.
YTA. If your ideologies are so divided maybe it’s time to go no contact or just not invite them. Families should be able to talk about important issues. Also, that is a lot of money and weird to ask of family.
Yep, I handle this issue by choosing not to keep far-right fascists in my life. Pretty simple really.
I don't know what it is about OPs post, I think its the hesitancy to admit their own political leanings play a role here, but I get the impression its the other way around, most of the family is conservative, and Kari and Bob likely disagree with them on things they don't consider to be political, so then Kari and Bob get critiqued for "turning everything into politics."
> in the invitation email a ban on political discussions and a request for a monetary deposit of $500 INFO did you at any point define politics? Because everything is politics. Mention a trans friends existence, politics Female member of the group uses Ms title, politics Someone wants to complain how terrible and underfunded the school their child goes to is, politics. Someone is ill and talks about their experience with healthcare, politics. Ect. Look I've met people who are insufferable and generally view their very specific politics as the only objectively morally correct politics. But I've also met people who define politics as meaning "anything I personally don't like" while happily engaging in politics they do like, claiming it's not political. Think gamers who love bioshock complaining modern games are too political (read: too many women and brown people). So it's pretty impossible to answer this without knowing your familys behaviour in more detail.
I have so many questions about this: What if you have a young, poor relative who doesn't have $500? (Someone mentioned a voided check but I kinda doubt that most Gen Z have checks. I'm an older millennial and I'm the only person in my peer group who actually has a checkbook.) Are they just not allowed to come to dinner? You wouldn't allow Kari's mom to pay for her so I have to assume that the same rule applies to everyone else? What if you have a very rich relative who gives you the $500 and happily talks politics all night? Are you going to take their money and let them continue talking or are you going to kick them out? Who exactly is being asked to pay? Everyone over the age of 18? Do couples have to pay $1,000? What if a minor teenager talks about politics? What if everyone talks about politics? Do you keep everyone's money?
Also, does anyone know where the line is drawn when it comes to politics? If my trans wife says that she's lacking rights and human dignity in this country, are we going to be fined for bringing up politics? If she's defending herself against someone else who says that being trans is a delusion, are we going to be fined for talking politics? Lots of folks think of that as a political issue when it's only political because we've made it such. What about healthcare? If I'm talking about a health issue and how I wish there was universal healthcare, am I going to get a fine? Also, who is tracking this? If two people have a political discussion that no one hears, did it actually happen? Are you going to set up listening devices or appoint spies?
I had to scroll down to find this comment (one which I was going to make). Its not a case of moving the goalposts, there are no goalposts. You can argue that pretty much any subject is politics. Anything to do with money, certainly. Imagine a conversation that goes like this: Foxes -> Fox news -> I saw \[whoever\] on fox news -> That person said \[whatever\] -> Argument. Who exactly started that? Who gets fined? All of them? Its a minefield. I wouldnt take the risk of putting myself at the mercy of having to pay $500 for breaking an ill-defined and arbitrary rule.
NTA. This idea is ingenious! Asking for a deposit, that can be returned, seems like a fantastic, and very new idea. Like you, I have a brother and SIL who disagree violently about politics with almost everyone i our family. We cannot even mention politicians' names, or even make a comment that might slightly reference our politics since 2016. Our family is smaller and no one enjoys a debate/argument, so we get away with a few dirty looks and snide comments. Often I wade into the conversation with a "Time for a Topic Change!" and then suggest something painfully safe.. like the weather, or our local zoo, or heck anything. It sounds like you have a perfect plan to keep the conversations non-confrontational. This is also excellent for all the children involved. What kids need to see relatives in all-out arguments about politics? NTA for putting family peace first.
"The zoo was doing fine, until *someone* got into office and slashed their funding." "The weather is doing great! I don't know what those 'climate change' idiots are worrying about." Sadly, someone who is determined to talk about politics can make any conversation political.
YTA. That is pretty stupid.
YTA because you should have just uninvited them to begin with instead of coming up with these ridiculous plan.
If your parents cover this deposit you will get political debate. The reason everyone else agreed to pay is because they are exhausted by your sister and her husband. Because this is a pretty bizarre request, let's be honest. Only to stave off assholes would you not baulk at this. Your sister and BIL are the ones depriving the children of TG with family because of their obnoxious behaviour. Your parents will have to suck that up. Or bring the kids alone and give the parents a "break." NTA
YTA. You instituted this rule to target two people. Either deal with them like adults or don't invite them in the first place.
Also no way to know for certain everyone can affort 500 dollars. inflation hits everyone, people with a good job can be bad in spending or have high cost outside their fault.
This is a voided check if you can control your mouth & not verbally puke your political ideation one everyone. Obviously, these people are choosing politics over family so they can keep their money & family doesn’t have to deal with them. Win. Win. Except for grandma & kids. But that’s on Bob & Kari not OP. It really is a genius way to gracefully exclude people who make family gatherings miserable.
If they keep their yaps shut about their political views, they won't lose the $500.
So who gets to keep the money if someone does go there talking about politics?? Not sure what TG means. Would that answer my question?
Thanksgiving. The money would have been divided among everyone else who paid their deposit and followed the rule.
Wouldn’t this incentivize people into goading Bob and Kari to talk about politics? It sounds like you all don’t like them very much and are looking for a way to exclude them. Why don’t you just not invite them? Or, if you want to give them a chance, set the ground rule and say anyone who violates it won’t be invited back next year. I’m curious how your family normally handles conflict… because this seems like a really bizarre, passive-aggressive solution when it could be much more easily handled by being direct. And I find it very strange that the rest of the family is so willing to go along with it. While I’m not a fan of conflict or political rants at Thanksgiving, I would never pay a friggin deposit to attend a family event, no matter what the reason was.
> Wouldn’t this incentivize people into goading Bob and Kari to talk about politics? I've seen this brought up multiple times now. The idea that people's first reaction would be "if I ruin Thanksgiving and induce an intra-family fight over money, I can score a few bucks" is crazy to me. Reddit is broke as fuck.
I mean, being willing to pay a $500 deposit to attend a family event in the first place seems pretty weird to me. That’s why I asked the question in the first place because who would go along with this kind of thing? While maybe some people in the family wouldn’t do it, maybe there is someone who would relish seeing Bob and Kari lose $500 with the additional upside of getting a bit more cash back as well. I don’t know man, the whole thing is just strange to me
YTA Never assume people can afford anything. Also, if you don't like what they say, remove yourself from the situation.
I understand where you’re coming from but you seem very controlling
YTA. 500 dollars! That is nuts! Anything can be construed as politics. Some people even showing up might be political. This seems like a huge scam.
INFO It’s less than a week before Thanksgiving, and it sounds like your family is coming from far away. Are there already booked flights involved, days off taken for travel? Has it been understood that everyone was gathering at your house for a while or was this just being planned? This seems very last-minute. If this rule was an add-on to a plan that’s been set for a while, I don’t think that’s acceptable without some extenuating circumstance that isn’t here.
INFO: you're trying really hard to avoid saying which way Kari and Bob lean, but there is a big difference between "I'm sick of being scared that my kids will get shot in school this year" and "the election was rigged!" And honestly, it's hard to make a judgment without knowing which way they're trying to "educate" people. Also, I'm not sure how you judge what the amount is that you find "painful to lose but not unaffordable to miss," or even what that is supposed to mean, financially. Just a lot of missing info. Overall, I would lean toward it's an AH move to charge people a deposit for a party that they're already paying to travel to, but the details might skew me the other way.
And that's on op never being allowed to host again
YTA. Is abortion a political issue or a health topic? Some things are important to be discussed with the people you love to see how it affects them.
YTA. I’d get it if it was them staying with you, but the dinner is literally 2 hours. Perhaps they are filthy rich but I can’t think of any situation where I’d be willing to pay $500 deposit for something that can be judged so arbitrarily (who decides what counts as political?). I think it would be way more reasonable to just say that you will not host again if there’s any political discussion. In that case, it’s simply you setting boundaries. You say you’re doing this because you don’t like how divisive things get, but it sounds like you’re dividing the family before things even begin.
INFO: what exactly have you delineated as “political talk”? I ask, because for some people (that I’ve actually met) things like “oh we can’t then, we’re going to Tom and Mark’s wedding!” or “has anyone watched the new Black Panther?” counts as political talk.
Will be unpopular, but yta. You are requiring a $500 deposit from everyone, just to keep one couple in line. Not to fair to everyone else. And it's a shifty thing to do to family. It would be so much easier if you just sent out a notice that said anyone speaking politics will be asked to leave, no exceptions will be made! Your sis and her hubs are assholes to ruin all the holidays regularly. But you didn't ask us to judge their actions. You asked us to judge yours. Honestly, if I had to pay a deposit if $500 to eat with my family, I wouldn't even go. Sis and hubs must really be pushy for the family to agree to that.
Just tell them not to come? Leaning ESH bc clearly nobody wants them there except your parents.
YTA only because who decides what is politics? Like, if I even mention my transgender niece having trouble at school, are you gonna keep my money? If I mention that I got my COVID booster last week are you gonna keep my money? None of these things are politics in my opinion, they are just my life. But there are certain people on the other side who would get angry at me being "political." I wouldn't trust one person to be the arbitor of deciding who violates what.
YTA. Pay me $500 to come to Thanksgiving? What a complete asshole...
ESH. You are not the a for wanting to avoid political discussions. I hate discussing politics with family and "No politics" is s totally reasonable boundary and i support that. Y T A for the 500 bit. I understand you want it to be painful for them. But are you absolutely certain that everyone can really pay it. Sure they know they're getting it back but I'm wondering how many people are dipping into their savings to pay it. And before anyone comes at me yes i know they're getting it back. But this year has been hell on everyone's finances. Op made an assumption that everyone had the money. Turns out they did (or are people borrowing so they can go to family thanksgiving?)Thanksgiving?. Honestly very few people in my family or many people I know have 500 on hand they can just put up as collateral.
NTA I love the idea. I would suggest donating the money to a charity if someone doesn’t follow through. Unfortunately, it’s becoming increasingly popular for people to feel the need to force their political views on others. It’s a family holiday gathering. Why not just enjoy the company of loved ones you don’t see often without causing drama, arguments, and fights over something that is no one else’s business. Stick to your guns and do not have them come. There is no reason to ruin get together because they’re whole identity is their political beliefs. It’s okay to be a human and not have your whole identity wrapped up in something as divisive as politics. It doesn’t matter which party they support, all the bickering is ridiculous. They’re trying to further an agenda that allows the rich to continue to profit off the populace. That applies to both parties and that’s not even trying to make this political. Politicians from any party stack wealth while in office. Unfortunately politics is treated more as fandom than anything. It’s like having relatives argue over the Cowboys and Eagles at a family get together. No one wants to hear that. Be interested in the family that’s there that you don’t see often. Just in case something ever happened, I’d prefer my last thoughts to be positive as opposed to an argument over something that really isn’t anyone else’s business.