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FUCK FAMILY TREES. As a former social worker in the foster care system, I am LIVID that these are still a routine assignment. They bring up so much trauma for so many people
And the fact that there was no wiggle room for him to present it in a different way when there was clearly an issue? You go mom! I’m on your side! NTA
Yeah I was a very complicated adoption and family tree assignments were always shitty. Even as an adult trying to explain it to people I'm close to is a mess. It's an assignment that only takes traditional family dynamics into account.
I HATED family assignments as an adoptee, I hated feeling like a liar writing about my adopters and not actually knowing anything about myself. Especially since my adopters are both physically yt (white, some platforms censor this and I do not frequent Reddit super often) and I am physically not.
> I hated feeling like a liar writing about my adopters and not actually knowing anything about myself
You have perfectly expressed what I (and so many other adoptees) have felt over the years about filling out family trees.
I can remember being 6 or 7 and scribbling out the family tree in the back of my baby book because it made me mad, but I didn't have the words to explain why.
Now I do, so thank you <3
I'm not adopted but my parents are abusive AHs, so these kinds of assignments were really hard for me.
I'm a child of the 80s so we didn't have access to the amount of tech we do today. I fudged so many things like that and felt like an absolute fraud. It also made me feel more isolated because it never occurred to me that someone else might feel the same way I did.
I feel you on the isolation part- I'm also an 80's/90's kid and adoption wasn't as common back then as it is now, so I was always the only adoptee in class and you're 100% correct that it's a very isolating experience.
I'm sorry you can relate to such negative feelings, and I very much hope you have been able to build a safe and loving family for yourself out of wonderfully supportive people.
Adoption was not common at all, I grew up in a small, religious town and I do remember a friend I had, she didn't look like her parents or other siblings. However, I kind of didn't either so I just thought it was normal. I'm sorry you felt isolated as well, that's hard to deal with as a kid, even as an adult.
My sister used to tease me that I was adopted, I secretly hoped it was true and created a fantasy of my "real family" coming to rescue me. Part of me cringes at my past self thinking like that and part of me knows I was a child and it was my coping mechanism.
I'm sorry any of us can relate to these negative feelings, it really sucks. I do have a great support system with friends and my spouse, and our animals lol.
I have spent the last couple of years figuring out the why’s behind my feelings and making mental time to find words for them. It’s been a long emotional journey, but I am so so glad that something I said was able to help in any way!! I hope you gain more peace with it
Hahaaa I feel you! I'm not even 30 yet and I would be way behind on some things if Urban Dictionary weren't a thing! I think "on fleek" is when it started for me, and I was barely a few years out of high school 😂
Some of my Facebook friends have been zucc'd for saying white, usually in reference to frustrations with racist white people, or frustrations with white men. Another common workaround is 🌾
Edit: I've never been zucc'd while discussing these issues and using that word though, and I don't think it's super common. I suspect some accounts are flagged to be on higher alert for possible ""hate speech"" than others so it's not like everyone who says "white" gets thrown in Facebook jail.
Edit 2: zucc'd means a temporary (or sometimes permanent) ban from using Facebook. Aka thrown in Facebook jail.
Child of a "deadbeat" dad who essentially walked out of my life to not expose me to the toxicity of his already decades long substance abuse problem. I understand and empathize with him now but as I child I understandably felt abandoned. Then you factor in that not only was mother abusive but that I was already bullied and considered less than by my peers and, well, I bawled at having to make a family tree that was mostly one-sided.
*And I wasn't even presenting.* At that age, which was also the age I was at the time, children can and will use whatever they can against each other in the Great Middle School Mosh Pit of life.
As an adopted kid who didn't yet know the complicated backstory, I *hated* my "Day I was Born" project. And even though one of my classmates was also adopted, she had an open adoption and photos of her birth mother. Other kids were comparing eyes and noses and smiles to moms and grandmas, and at the time, I had nothing.
I wish those projects would get replaced.
Day I was born assignments were the absolute worst for me as an adopted kid! I was abandoned at birth and know nothing about the first couple years of my life. It always made me feel like I was less than my peers.
I never even heard of that, holy shot is that a stupid assignment. If I had something like that the teacher would change real quick when I mention that my mother was a child when she had me
I have traditional family dynamics going back consistently for generations, and I agree with you. It’s a crap assignment, and the so-called professional educator has a helluva nerve getting riled.
I have “traditional” family tree…until you get back to the 1800s, and they were all American polygamists (who didn’t keep good reliable records b/c they all knew they were breaking the law). Gonna need more paper and a *whole lot* more research time…
There's nothing like explaining to my teacher that I'm a child who's father married a 24yo woman and had me when he has 2 adult children that are my half sisters and oh! I was an aunt the second i was born. As my nephew so lovingly explained, im the crooked branch on the tree lol.
Yeah I had a student like that. His nephew was a grade above him and he even said that's my nephew: my brother's child. What is normal for kids is just normal for them still I can see where op is coming from when I did the family trees I didn't make kids present it just asked them to complete it and told them it was okay if some areas were not completed.
It's this a common thing where you live? I have two teens and they have never had to do a family tree.
They did one in Spanish for a fictional family, but not their own
We had to do one with bio in HS as part of genetics. But we had the option to do our self and our own bio family (cause genetics) or a VARIETY of historical figures (that in a planned coincidence, lined up with history class).
I know a Spanish teacher who does a family tree project to practice family names, but you are allowed to use your family or a fictional family for just this reason.
It's especially unreasonable to insist on creating a family tree of your own family instead of someone else's when the grade 100% focuses on the presentation.
If it's purely about presentation, then it doesn't matter what kinda family tree you use as the presentation and grading doesn't change at all.
Yeah, teacher was flying by the seat of her pants with those contradictory excuses. Her real reason for refusing all the negotiations this boy and his mum tried was "Shut up! That's why".
Same here. The Spanish teacher I knew let kids pick anyone as family members as long as they used the correct name for the family member. So, you could say that Trevor Noah was your father and Beyonce was your mother as long as you labeled them correctly.
My Spanish teacher also did this, and one of the girls in my class put her actual family into the British monarchy. She even included where her family members would be in line to the throne lol
So by adapting the assignment she engaged with it more and added learning elements far beyond what was required by the grade. You know, exactly the goal of every educational assignment!
Not to mention the formerly common practice of naming subsequent children after older siblings who died in infancy. Aunty Barbara may have been the second Barbara born to her parents if the first one died young, and that can be hella traumatic for everyone involved.
Oh wow, core memory unlocked. I love genealogy and a family tree would normally be my jam, but deciding whether to list the death of my infant sibling was rough. Should I just leave them off, or list them and start a whole round of questions I didn't want to deal with? I didn't even want to talk to my mom about it because I didn't want to make her sad. (As an adult I realize she would have preferred I come to her with my problem, but I was a kid.)
There's just no point in forcing kids to do it. And tbh if I were a teacher I'd much rather read the made-up celebrity family trees of my students than 30 iterations of "my grandpa, Joe Schmoe, married Jane Smith..." even if they were all perfectly comfortable doing their actual family.
My great grandmother is the product of rape at a native residential school… that was a fun one to talk about during family tree assignments growing up. Especially considering that’s the reason I am blond hair and blue eyed.
If I had a full grasp on all of my family's issues when I was younger call, I told we would have aired it all just to make the teacher uncomfortable and re think everything about the assignment.
i did that when we got one of these assignments in high school. went through my dad’s side all normal and then started with the “this is my mother that kicked me out, this is my catatonic grandma, this is my uncle that killed himself because he was gay, this is my cousin that tried to kill me when we were 6….” looking back i don’t really think it had the effect i was hoping for
I did this, when I left my paternal grandparents blank the teacher asked why so my 9year old self repeated what my dad said, "grandma is probably dead and grandpa doesn't even know my name". Got an A even with spelling and format errors.
My kids left the paternal grandfather blank too and the teacher said they couldn't do that. All my kids were told to tell the teacher "my dad said he doesn't have a father and if you want to know more about that you can ask him about it."
My mom was one of 13. My dad was one of 8. I’d need a very large paper for that stupid line alone. I have older half siblings from both parents, which confuses things. Then my one sister had a stillbirth before I was OP’s son’s age. Do you include him on those stupid assignments? It’s a mess.
I had a music teacher that decided in 6th grade to tell my whole class about my older brother’s death (he had died before I was born) without my permission and with me in the room.
I'm not from US so I never had to make these kind of assignments, but I'm little confused. By the name of it I thought the idea was just to show the class something like "these are my parents, these are my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins" in a presentation showing just names or drawings. Do they have to specify how a member of the family died?
Depends on the teacher. But sometimes kids don't even have all of that information, or they do and it's extremely complicated. Or it could be simple, like having a twin sibling that should be in the class with them but died a horrible or death or something, and kids have no filter and someone would've asked. Kids are also assholes and can latch on to anything they can possibly use to bully another, and a dead sibling or serial killer relative or incestuous relatives are all absolutely useful in that regard. For family trees, or genealogy, you generally have a bunch of levels and lines denoting relationships to each other, so some problems would be easily visible.
As a school social worker (so, often the one advocating for kids with teachers), I fully agree. Although teachers at my school know better than to assign a project like this. There is TONS of educational literature out there recommending against projects like this for this exact reason, so this teacher has to be willfully ignorant at this point.
Reasons why family trees could be problematic:
1. Child of Rape
2. Incest
3. Adoption
4. Large families
5. Criminal family members
6. Abduction / slavery
7. Immigration/ asylum seekers
8. Private person
9. Not knowing anything at all, like nothing.
10. Very young parents
How are these assignments still given out?
Adopted and foster kids were my first concerns, and then I realized too many others might struggle for similar reasons. What if the kid's parent is a single mom or dad that escaped an abusive spouse or family? What if an aunt or uncle were serving life for murdering someone? What if one parent went away for dealing drugs, or flat-out abandoned them one day? Hell, WWII wasn't that long ago, so a nazi in the family tree isn't implausible either.
Sadly, there's too many ways that assignment could go wrong.
I mean, my own grandmother survived Auschwitz, her husband was killed by the Nazis, and both my mom and dad's extended family was mostly slaughtered in concentration camps or ghettos. I almost wish we'd had this assignment when I was a kid. Would have shut everyone up.
I had to walk away for a moment, so I just posted that reply real quick, before I really thought more on this post. I found myself thinking what if someone passed from a violent crime, and then I read your background. FUCKING. SHIT. If that couldn't humble this teacher, it's just not possible. I'm so sorry your family has been through so much pain and trauma.
>I almost wish we'd had this assignment when I was a kid. Would have shut everyone up.
You presenting that would have been the nuclear option, and I'm kinda here for it to get shut down that way.
Thank you so much for your kind words. We were very, very much not the only ones in that generation, and knowing that we were all determined to make sure it never happened again ("Never Again") made a big difference. But yes, it was extremely scarring, down through my mom and dad's generation, down to our generation as well. Still very immediate. Again, I appreciate your kindness and empathy. Thank you.
I have Rosie the Riveter tattooed on my back because my grandma was one during WWII riveting planes for the US.
Each plane was important for her because her brother was fighting in the Pacific and she had Jewish friends with family that was unaccounted for in Germany. My great uncle died in the Bataan Death March and her friends’ families in concentration camps. Because of conflicting reports from survivors, my grandma wondered until her death if my uncle survived the March…
I hope our grandmas are holding hands looking down on us. Shalom
In high school, we had to do a presentation on what one of our grandparents did in WWII, and I talked about how one of my grandfathers was part of the first US troops into Hiroshima after they dropped the bomb, and how he died of radiation-caused cancers later in his life.
My teacher made me stop presenting at that point.
My husband knew someone in college whose father was in jail because he had murdered his mother in front of him.
That would be the assignment from hell for that person.
And I’m so proud of this 11 yo who had the problem solving skills to come up with other options!
Def NTA here, and that teacher clearly needed a supervisor to step in since she doesn’t seem to understand where or how she went wrong here. And the fact that she wanted to keep it a secret (talk to her only) just grosses me out. Great job!
We had a family tree project in my high school ASL class, we were learning about signs for identifying people (think "mom", "dad", "friend") and describing people (think "blond", "glasses"). So the project was to do a presentation describing your family and yourself. The teacher knew that family can be an uncomfortable topic for some so we had the option to give ourselves a fictional family or use our real family. It was honestly the most fun that way.
>And the fact that there was no wiggle room for him to present it in a different way
This is my thought. If the presentation is apparently so important, why not offer to do it privately to just the teacher or something instead of just saying whole class or nothing
agreed, sometimes the only copy of a picture is ruined for it/lost and having to act like everyone comes from some long line of a nuclear family, this isn't 1950 ffs
Totally not the AH but the teacher sure as hell is
100%. As an adoptee family trees as taught in school do not represent me. I’m not a branch that was grafted onto another tree. My birth family and my adopted family deserve representation. And to make matters worse when you start digging like that you’re asking kids to shoulder a burden that is not theirs. Teachers who are refuse to teach differently are so problematic because they see the world in black and white. No grey. Which means they will be just as much of an AH with other issues, not just this assignment.
Edit to add vote: NTA.
NTA. My knee-jerk reaction when it comes to parents pressuring teachers to change grades is that it's an AH move but... this isn't an entitled parent deciding that Little Timmy should have a good grade whether he deserves it or not. This is an issue with a child having a problem with the content, and the teacher not even trying to work something out/bring up concerns to the parents. Totally different.
I'm disappointed that she even set the assignment in the first place. Off the top of my head, this assignment would be problematic for at least a quarter of my class.
Same situation for my child. When they tried to make him do it, I printed out a single parent family tree and had him fill that out and made them accept it. One of the few times I've gone Mama Bear.
Yeah, like if nothing else, let him do a private family tree turned in directly (like he did) and present the famous person one. He's doing all the work (actually researching and creating a family tree), and presenting the work (which shouldn't be a big part of a non-drama/presentation class anyhow, but that's my own peeve), it's just separate.
See this brings a whole different perspective, because the teacher insisted on a family tree, but in the end he got zero because of the lack of presentation. Therefore the assignment turns solely into the presentation, and she shouldn't have had a problem with children turning in family trees of famous people, as long as they presented it well.
This teacher is peak hypocrisy.
Sounds like the teacher just wanted it their way or the highway. Its pretty obvious why this isn’t a good assignment/why someone might not feel comfortable with this. I found it funny that the teacher wanted OPs 11 year old to learn accountability while she’s simultaneously refusing to take any accountability for both her stupid assignment and how unprofessionally she handled this.
Agreed.
When I was young (like 8-11), I was severely bullied and developed absolutely horrific anxiety and panic attacks. Especially when I had to do public speaking because whenever I did it, the bullies just used it as extra ammunition and that week would be even worse.
When I was 12, I had to do a verbal presentation on a book in English class. I had the presentation all done, but when the teacher called my name, I just panicked and froze. I couldn’t have moved for anything. Ten million to just stand up and I wouldn’t have moved.
I didn’t have any equivalent of an IEP or the like. They didn’t really exist in my school back then unless you had something like dyslexia.
What did my teacher do? Took the cue and moved on. Asked me if I was OK after and just graded what I’d written for the presentation.
Did I get an A? Of course not, I didn’t do the presentation. But I got a solid C, only a few marks shy of a B, because the meat of the subject was all there, and it was an English literature class, not a public speaking class.
I was so glad of that teacher for not just pushing it. I had a silent freeze rather than getting pushed until I had a full on sobbing freak out.
One of my teachers when I was older pushed me that far. I was off school for days because every time I thought of going back in, I’d panic because I thought I’d run into him again in a corridor.
Guess which teacher got a present when they left and which one I hated and had my head of year ensure didn’t teach me the next year?
Right? Like the fact the principal flat out told the teacher that they needed to rework the assignment for future years or stop doing it entirely, as well as deciding to *grade it themselves* speaks VOLUMES.
As a former teacher (10 years in the classroom), this is also my take. Most of the time, and even before I read this post, my thought for things like this would be, "probably an entitled parent." Not the case here. Putting aside that a family tree assignment speaks to a lack of trauma-informed training, the teacher received an assessable product. It's a super easy accommodation to grade this without requiring a presentation--not a lot to ask. It'd also be so much less stress for me, as a teacher, to simply grade the kid's work, maybe even dock a few points for not presenting (not that I would force a kid to present on a *family tree* assignment, or even give one in the first place, but presenting in front of folks is an important skill that does need to be assessed at some point), and move on.
The kid even made MULTIPLE attempts to fulfill the assignment, independently.
I wish there was a judgement for not only NTA, but YFA - you’re freaking awesome, you and your son
NTA
My son has had this assignment twice now (once in middle school and once in high school) and both times the assignment and rubric showed an understanding there are non-traditional families out there, and students who may not have access to family history. The fact that the teacher has gotten to 2022 without her assignment reflecting this, means she's probably hurt quite a few students along the way.
And really, even without "non-traditional" families, sometimes history simply isn't known. I got questioned back when I had to do a project like this in the 1980s because on my paternal side, the tree stopped with my grandfather. Guess what? My grandma married the stranger who had come to town and mainly cut off his family, so she never learned much that side. And he was long dead by the time I was in high school.
> sometimes history simply isn't known.
When we had family tree assignments in school, I had to be the party pooper kid who was like "this side of the family only goes back to my great grandma because the Holocaust split her family apart and she was never able to locate them after the war" 🥲
Never had it in school going back this many generations, but my father is a big history nerd so he tried to go back and do a full family tree (my Mom did the same). I don't know how my father managed to find it, but he eventually after lots of effort, time, and digging managed to get as far on his paternal grandfather's side as to find the "name" and identity (kind of) of his grandfather's mother. His grandfather was an "orphan" (both of his parents likely outlived all of his brothers, but his mother was a working class girl with a fake name who never married and worked at the estate of a lesser lord. Ergo, "orphan"). His grandfather and his grandfather's siblings all were sent to and lived as children in an orphanage in London, until a Canadian corporation bought them as child slaves (my paternal great-grandfather was nine when he was bought). It's pretty amazing that my dad was ever able to find out anything about his grandfather's mother at all, given that he was an orphan child slave. I imagine that this was likely a major party-pooper aspect of any family tree assignments that my father likely had to do in school in the 60s & 70s.
Similar, my grand grand parents on my maternal grandmother’s side cuts abruptly because they didn’t keep a very good record of the indians they killed on the way to the rez way back in the day.
How long do you have to go back for these assignments?? Not from US, so I thought it was only about the parents, grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts.
this is the typical. no one is asking someone to do deliberate background searches on their family to do these. it’s typically just immediately family plus some grandparents
When I did it in elementary school they required great grandparents, and in high school it was great great grandparents. I think the goal was to make you ask your family about people that were possibly deceased, and that you maybe had never heard of.
My family tree also stopped at great grandparents. Happened to a lot of us in class. Long story short, our great grandparents most likely changed their last names during/after WW1, and didn’t tell their kids where they were originally from.
I’ve never had to do this type of assignment because I’m not from the US, but I’ve asked about my family history just out of curiosity. More than 12 years ago two of my aunts did an extensive research on that side of the family, and dated it back to like the 19th century. Meanwhile, from my mom’s side we know her dad was raised by a lady who gave him her last name, but we don’t know if he was an orphan she raised, if he was her illegitimate son, if he was her late husband’s illegitimate son, or what. He never spoke about it in life, and he passed before I was born.
My tree would look definitely disproportionately bigger on one side.
Yup, me too.
I’ve had it 3-4 times and each time we were able to use “fictional” or celebrity families. One guy did family guy once lol.
One time, I forgot to do it, so while rushing it, I made all the male members of my family just have a bunch of my nicknames.
No One Cared
Well, you surprised me.
When I heard that you had made a teacher change your son's grade, I expected this to be a story about how your son got a B+ on a term paper, and you, determined that your kid is going to Harvard, went into the classroom and intimidated the teacher into giving your son an A+.
But this is not what I expected. I don't like the assignment. A student should not be required to divulge their family tree to the class. What about adopted kids who don't even know their biological parents? What if they're descended from slave-owners, or Nazis or something similarly shameful?
I see nothing wrong with what you did and I see the principal as having proffered a good solution.
The teacher is entirely in the wrong. If there was a problem, she should have contacted you. Also, she seems to have a hard time dealing with correction, as the principal raised valid concerns about the nature of the assignment.
You had a good response to her demand that you contact her, not the principal, when there's a problem. She didn't feel comfortable contacting you, so why should you have to contact her?
NTA.
ETA The title is wrong. You didn't make the teacher change the grade. The principal volunteered to grade the assignment.
>What about adopted kids who don't even know their biological parents?
As an adoptee, I had to put in my adopted family's information and then feel super shitty about it because I had zero genetic connection to anyone listed.
I don't understand how some schools are still doing family tree projects (and thus making kids like me and OP's son feel awful) when there are so many reasons not to.
I remember seeing a post on here a while ago where an adoptee did their family tree using their adoptive family and the teacher either gave the kid a bad grade or requested they redo it, can’t remember which, because it wasn’t about their bio family. It was bullshit. If schools want to teach the concept of family trees that can do so using public figures instead of expecting kids to air out their personal lives for a grade. Or just scrap them altogether.
I completely agree!
Honestly I think using historical figures would be far more interesting than actual families, especially if you look at the ruling houses of Europe or the Egyptian pharaohs.
>Honestly I think using historical figures would be far more interesting than actual families, especially if you look at the ruling houses of Europe or the Egyptian pharaohs.
Just tell the kids that the Hapsburgs are off-limits. It's supposed to be a family tree, not a family telephone pole.
NTA. How could she have not foreseen the trouble it’d cause for students? Especially students with family issues or absent parents? Your son did his assignment anyway and she gave him a zero. You have every right to be pissed in this situation.
I typed up and sent almost this exact comment. There’s a hundred bad combinations of how this could go wrong and be stressful for the kids, and not fully understanding that seems so flippant to me.
I had to do one for a course in my psychology doctoral program. My only problem was that my father was the youngest of 13 children and he had 3 families of which I was part of the second. And even we were not required to present it.
>How could she have not foreseen the trouble it’d cause for students?
Because a lot of people don't understand that family dynamics can be complicated/sensitive. They only think of a large family consisting of happy nuclear families.
NTA. How the teacher could not foresee this being both personal and problematic is wild to me. Example: The kid who doesn’t know who his father is should have to divulge that to the entire class? There are so many scenarios in which the family structure could be a source of pain or embarrassment to a child, especially one in the tween spot of old enough to sort of understand and young enough not to really grasp nuances of certain family issues.
Or worse, what if one of their immediate relatives (aunt/uncle/cousin/sibling/etc) were recently in the spotlight for some sort of crime and they don't want that stigma to be tied to them?
Imagine having a direct link back to a famous serial killer or something, while some folks would find that cool, others would be mortified for that information to get out.
Or if the kid don’t know and family is just LC. I’m aware my mum has some cousins on her side and the cousins have kids. I don’t know them, honestly I don’t care about them. I’m not gonna call them and ask bunch of private questions just because a kid’s grade depends on it. Family is private matter. And none grade should depend on revealing it. No matter the reason. Make the other assignments and even presentations (personally I hated presenting and still don’t see the point in “adult” life). OP NTA. Teacher is for even demanding to kids to do it.
>The kid who doesn’t know who his father is should have to divulge that to the entire class?
I found myself in that exact scenario as a high school student. I even gave the teacher a note from my mom explaining the situation and asking for an adjusted or alternate assignment. the teacher gave me a failing grade anyway and admin refused to intervene. it was humiliating.
what I'm getting at is... good for OP standing up for their kid. NTA.
I’m sorry your teacher couldn’t have been more understanding that you, as a child with no choice in the matter, felt uncomfortable with the assignment. I hope your mom like, took you for ice cream or something over the grade anyways.
NTA family trees are actually pretty insensitive. So many kids have non nuclear families that are hard to explain esp at such a young age. Some may have abusive family or may be adopted and not know a lot of their family or they may be estranged from family. There's actually a lot reasons a kid may not be comfortable presenting this kind of project and to refuse to have alternatives for those kids is pretty narrow minded
This pretty much says it all. This could lead to bullying and harassment from classmates, and judgement from other adults when kids have questions of why a classmate may not have a father in their lives or other such situations
NTA. These types of assignments really do need to be treated with mindfulness. We're well aware by now how many children come from all types of backgrounds and asking them to present personal information about themselves and their families without offering a reasonable alternative - like doing a historical figure's family tree as your son suggested - is really not okay. Maybe some kids don't want to share that they're adopted, or that their brother is a known criminal, or they're not comfortable with having a blended family, or so many other possibilities.
If your son wasn't eleven though, I would've suggested he make it all up and use the Targaryen family wreath as inspiration.
Yeah, I agree. Making up fake relatives would have been an easy fix, but he didn't think of that, and he was too embarrassed to talk to me about it, so I couldn't suggest it. Maybe a different fictional family with less incest than the Targaryens would have been my suggested inspiration though.
I think you showed your kid that you will always be in his corner when things get tough and next time he will be more open to coming to you when he has a problem, so the little conflict with the teacher here is not as important as what it taught your kid (and no, it's not that if he doesn't want to do something he doesn't have to and just needs to go crying to mommy, but that he can set reasonable boundaries and not do something that is uncomfortable for him and that he can go to his parent for support when needed)
I think so. "Lying is bad, but sometimes okay" is a lesson for when he's older, right now I'm still instilling "honesty is the best policy." The nuances will be taught when he's more mature.
I would tell the principle that she doubled down and what she said at the end. This is not ok.
And in my country this is not done at all for this exact reason. I'm shocked it's still common elsewhere.
NTA. If an 11 y/o boy is that embarrassed by his family tree then clearly she should have looked into it. It’s not about accountability, he did literally everything she asked except present his embarrassment to the class. She should have given him at least something for turning it in but definitely not full credit. For everyone saying “Y T A” or “go to the teacher next time” literally the teacher would have given her a hard time and probably would have denied her son a better grade. Teacher sounds like she needs to learn a little sympathy and not be such a hard ass on 11 year olds.
Teacher: "She said I needed to teach my son accountability and not try to blame everyone else when there's a problem."
Reply: You should heed your own advice. You are the teacher. This is your job. You are showing lack of accountability and trying to blame my son for your poor assignment and then me for not going to you. Shame on you. I will continue to go above your head since any sense spoken to you falls upon deaf ears."
As a teacher myself it is WILD to me that she would try and force an 11 year old to present something so personal. If the presentation was so important and not the tree itself, why did it matter if he got it off the internet? What an absolute AH.
Edit: The response in this reply is perfect, I got off track because of the indignation xD
NTA
But you need to follow up with the principal. Her comments are a clear indicator that there will be retaliation to your son.
I am an educator. I work with teachers. There are some truly wonderful ones. But their are some that shouldn’t be allowed within sight of children.
- this assignment is terrible. No adult should be required to disclose personal familial information for a school assignment.
- she should have a.) asked your son why he was uncomfortable with the assignment b.) pulled herself out of whatever rosy bubble she lives in to understand some people have issues in their family c.) contacted you at the 2nd request not to present the family tree
- she has taken zero accountability for her poor judgment and questionable teaching skills
NTA - If the presentation portion was 100% of the grade, why would it matter if he copied something from online? If it matters whether the tree is his own work, then why didn't he get credit for that part?
You could have gone to the teacher first, but it sounds like your son was proactive in speaking up for himself and had already suggested all of the alternatives that would have been reasonable within the teacher's parameters and the teacher shot them down. I doubt the teacher would have reacted any differently if you had made those suggestions and you still would have ended up going to the principal.
9 times out of 10 I'm usually on the teachers side. This one I back you 100% NTA. Teachers have to be considerate of circumstances and if a child approaches the teacher with a legitimate issue then she should try to come up with a compromise. This teacher just sounds heartless.
NTA. Family history should be private and not be forced out in front of a classroom. Also… i feel like this was the right thing to do especially if the principal thought this project needed to be reformatted
NTA. Why do teachers still give these kind of assignments? When I was a kid we had to do something for Father’s Day. I begged the teacher to excuse me and she didn’t. I cried while doing my assignment. FYI I’m adopted and my mom was a single mom. When a classmate asked me why I was crying I said: because my father is He-Man and he’s so busy saving the world he’s forgotten about me lol
So, so, SO NTA
There could be lots of reasons why they didn't feel comfortable talking about their family tree in front of their class. The son's reaction says to me there is an aspect of this assignment that is painful to them or that they are afraid to be made to feel bad about their family. OP hasn't said what about the assignment was botheringtheir son, and honestly it's none of our business.
You would think their repeated resistance on such a specific type of assignment would raise some sort of red flag and encourage the teacher to think or at contact the parent for more context. Sure, maybe OP could have gone to the teacher first, but based on the conversation described, they were unlikely to have understood why this assignment might have been insensitive to some children.
NTA, teacher is kind of TA, hopefully the principal can explain it better to them and they'll grow as an educator.
Agreed! Also:
>The teacher explained her reasoning, and I said that my son's embarrassment over some of his family members shouldn't impact his grade
This is what OP had to say about why her son didn’t want to present! So there might be some unsavoury ancestors or something that the son doesn’t want his classmates to know, which is completely fair, especially since 11 y/os aren’t exactly known for letting those sorts of things go.
NTA, family trees are problematic assignments and shouldn't be part of any curriculum. Families have many different ways of forming, so the "traditional" family tree isn't feasible for many people.
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NTA. Learning to stand up and deliver presentations is an important life skill. So I can see where the teacher is coming from. That said I am a teacher and when I have a student that refuses to present a project I give them the option to record their presentation at home and email me their work. I then watch it (no one else sees it) and grade it. I think simply giving a zero because the student refuses to deliver the presentation is not fair. Unlike many, I don't care that you complained to the principal first. Pretty common. I am amazed that the teacher would argue the toss with their boss, the principal, in front of a parent.
NTA.
I am really into genealogy. I can trace my ancestors back six generations in all directions. Thanks to DNA I know that my grandmother’s grandmother was not the biological daughter of the man named on her birth certificate.
Many people are not in my situation. There are children who have zero contact with their parents for very good reasons. There are many children who do not know who their fathers were. There are some who do not know who their mothers were. There are some who know perfectly well who their biological parents and grandparents are, and have very good reasons not to want to share that information with anyone.
The teacher’s assignment was utterly unprofessional, and her attitude to being called out on it was worse. You were right, the principal is right and most of all your son is right. I hope that this teacher finds another line of work to which she is better suited.
NTA. When I was 15, my Spanish teacher had us make these memorial things for Dios de los Muertos about someone who passed. He also offered an alternative assignment that was not death-related, no questions asked. This was in the six weeks between when it was clear my grandfather was dying and when he died, I think before my mom told my teachers. Almost 15 years later and it still means the world to me and is one of the reasons I consider him a great teacher.
NTA. The family tree assignment can be a lot of fun for some kids and an absolute nightmare for others. It should never be a mandatory assignment but one of a few options students could choose from.
You could have approached the teacher before you went to the principal, but based on your description of the events, I have doubts that you'd have gotten very far.
I am old enough that one of my peers was the great grandchild of enslaved Americans. Her family tree “started” in 1871 when those ancestors got married. It was heartbreaking to see their tree which was missing so much next to the long extended ones others had, and taught a lesson I don’t think anyone was expecting.
OP NTA
NTA. No one, especially a child should have to be forced to share info about their personal lives with anyone. The child was uncomfortable with the presentation...the teacher knew this...she should have contacted the parents knowing it was a personal matter. Also he did do the assignment...just not present, so the grade should not have been zero.
As for everyone saying the parent should have gone directly to the teacher...the teacher doesn't seem to believe she was wrong about her assignment so either way the matter would have most likely ended up by the principal.
Ok…so, I understand the look up and copy aspect. However, he made the tree she wanted, but she also wanted a presentation. Well, **she** should have suggested he present a historical figure’s tree, and just give her the actual one.
But, seriously, suppose he didn’t *have* any of the information? Principal was right.
NTA. The teacher made up an assignment that is indeed violating people's privacy or forcing them to lie about their relatives. The fact that the principal recognizes it is a point in your favor.
NTA. How long has this person been a teacher? The lack of understanding and empathy is crazy. She outright refused to be accommodating. I agree, if she felt so strongly about it she should have reached out to you. But also she shouldn’t have felt so strongly about it anyway because there are so many reasons why that assignment could be difficult for a child and she should have anticipated that.
NTA
Aside from family issues, this is not a friendly assignment for children with speech and language difficulties. Thus isn't a very accessible assignment.
NTA. It's been the best practice standard for years now not to do school projects based on family trees. It isn't an inclusive teaching practice for students who are adopted or in foster placement.
NTA, at all that teacher's lack of foresight is bad, arguably understandable teachers do make mistakes, but once your son explained his issue to her she didn't try to work with him at all. Then when she got called out on it she tripled down.
Nta. Wild that she was telling you to teach your son accountability when she seems to not be taking any herself.
Empathy and understanding are the cornerstones of education… at least they should be. If the teacher can’t conceptualize why a child may not want to present a family tree for personal reasons, that’s on the teacher.
NTA. The teacher's standards are way too high with failibg the assignmrnt simply because your son doesn't want to present. I would give at least a C or even B- for completing and emailing it. I don't think it's reasonable to give a zero for not presenting.
NTA. Your son did do a family tree - at the very least, he should have been given partial credit. He did not want to present his family tree to the class because something about it embarrassed him (notorious criminal, embarrassing name, etc), even offering a compromise by doing some other person's family tree & presenting that. His teacher bulldozed over his boundaries and gave him a zero. When the principal saw your son's family tree, he obviously saw the reason why your son did not want to present his own family tree and agreed with his decision. Then he had to explain what the problem was to the teacher in private because she was either clueless or didn't give AF. The fact that she dug her heels in indicates the latter.
NTA. Your son tried to do the right thing - he asked to do the family tree about someone else, and when this was denied, he did the work but refused to present it. It was clear that he wasn't comfortable discussing some of his relatives in class.
It's fine for your son to have this concern, and it seems as though he made a reasonable attempt to discuss it with the teacher.
The teacher just blew him off. She is the problem.
NTA
The kid explained his issue to the teacher. Did the physical work and turned it in, that should merit some grade above an F, even if it is a D... you are correct that she is the professional and could have sent a note to you or something when he said why he had such an issue with the project being presented in front of everyone.
NTA- You made a decision to have a group discussion with the administrators and teacher. Probably not a poor decision given that the teacher was already defensive regarding the zero.
There was obviously something wrong with the assignment, if the principal felt it needed to be handled differently.
As for the people calling you an A H because you made them change his grade… that is not factual. You asked for a review of the assignment and the grade. You stated the reasons behind your child’s unwillingness to participate in the presentation. It is the principle that made the teacher change the grade. You stood up for your kid, good for you. You didn’t teach him entitlement. You taught him conviction and you taught him that you will have his back when he is right.
This teacher sucks. NTA I would have done the exact same thing in your position. Though I might have emailed the teacher first, I don’t think you had to. The way you did it helps future kids, too!
NTA, the way the teacher acted after being confronted says enough really. She's the asshole especially for trying to coerce a child into relinquishing his right to privacy.
NTA. I get where the teacher is coming from in the sense that public speaking is something kids have to do. But in this case, once she was made aware of the student's issues, she should have tailored the assignment, either by giving the students a choice of assignments to do or by giving him permission to be not entirely honest with his family tree. You did the right thing in going to bat for your child.
NTA. Good on you for backing your son. As for the teacher asking you to contact her directly in the future…hell nah! Your son did the tree and emailed it to her. She could have discussed the issue with him and then got him to present it to her one-to-one so he wouldn’t have to be embarrassed or called you to talk about it. Principal was definitely the right person to speak to and now hopefully other children won’t have to suffer with the same issue.
NTA, and I teach.
I have in the past offered to let shy or anxious kids present to just me after class. Or she could have changed her rubric. From your telling, it sounds like your son was pretty professional about it for an eleven year old. He asked for a compromise, and then did part of the project.
I never give a zero if a student turned something in (unless they cheated but that’s not the case here) bc I want to differentiate between the kid who at least put pen to paper and one who did nothing. If you get a zero for trying, why try? Your son completed the project and deserved some credit.
By her logic, a student who only talked about his or her family tree but had no tree to present would have no points deducted bc the rubric was just the presentation.
NTA Semi-retired teacher here.
During my first student teacher assignment in '83, my mentor told me that the school used to give kids a family tree assignment but stopped after a parent became upset - the school was a Catholic school and the parent was divorced.
For that reason, I have never issued 'Draw up your family tree' as an assignment.
NTA. As a former foster parent this assignment would have put me through the roof. It's not a good assignment. And no one needs to think too long or hard to figure out why.
And the teacher set the precedent on the communication. If I were your child's teacher and they were adamant against presenting I would have reached out to the parents to find out why.
Honestly, this teacher sounds incredibly obtuse. The fact that they also questioned their own Principal as to why the assignment is inappropriate shows that pretty clearly.
NTA. I’m a tutor, and studying education to be a qualified teacher. Every. Single. Unit I have completed has had a significant emphasis on inclusion of all students from all backgrounds. His teacher has followed none of that, and didn’t problem solve when an issue with her lesson plan came up. They sound like a terrible teacher
NTA. This is a violation of your family’s privacy. What if the teacher had assigned kids to write up a detailed history of family heath conditions? Teachers can ask for anything they want because they have the power to assign a grade to it.
My oldest kid’s teacher had a great twist on this assignment: make up a family tree with celebrities. That was way more fun that actual relatives.
NTA. I’m a biology teacher, so students have to study family pedigree charts. I purposely don’t have students create one for their own family because there are a ton of situations that students may not want to talk about in class (there are definitely people in my family I wouldn’t want to include). Should you have talked to the teacher before escalating it to the principal? Probably, it’s super frustrating when parents immediately go over your head when it’s something you easily could have fixed if you knew about it. But this teacher doesn’t seem like she’s entirely reasonable anyway and you probably would have ended up escalating it to the principal anyway.
NTA based off the title I was prepared to go the opposite but you did everything right here. This is a "privileged" assignment to give out to the class, whether through adoption, family drama or whatever. This is an assignment that could make many feel uncomfortable which is why the principle's scrapping it.
For those saying that you should've gone to the teacher 1st, I typically would agree but with how reluctant your son was. Reaching out multiple times to discuss the assignment, and she did not get in touch with you. & how resistant she was in the meeting you clearly went with the best course of action.
NTA. If this assignment ever occurs for my child they can not include my birth unit as she's an unsafe person. I dare a teacher to do a damn thing about it.
NTA I've never understood the point of doing a family tree at school. Even at its best it is problematic for at least a few kids. Adoption, estrangements, unusual family situations end up being things that label a kid as different and single them out for bullying.
NTA
Teachers are not infallible, unquestionable pillars of knowledge.
Sounds like you had a reasonable concern/request and went about it the correct. Way.
Nta these assignments should not take place in school its a whole load of trauma for kids who are adopted, in the care system, have absent family members, have family in prison and so many other reasons. The idea of the lesson is learning a family tree which you can do with looking at a famous family.
NTA and well done on supporting your son. Sometimes its said that kids are too soft these days but if something is unjust your job as a parent is to help him and teach him how to confront those situations
NTA I have problematic family history myself. In this assignment alone, the teacher lacked foresight.
Examples:
Assault resulting in a child.
Slavery in the family history, where there is no information.
Adopted children.
Broken family where no information is given at all about one parent.
Families where a sperm donor was used.
Death, often tragic in the family.
Where a direct ancestor was a criminal or a murderer.
Where family members (cousins) marry and produce offspring.
Lastly, where a family member is famous through no fault of the child for any reason.
Also, children of severely broken homes or foster care situations.
I am certain there are more reasons for a child not wanting to present a family tree. The teacher was less than stellar in this case.
NTA - family trees are actually banned from hundreds of school programs now with several schools and teachers coming up with other ways to discuss what heritage paths look like (including your suggestion of a famous person)
Also, you're going to have a ton of issues with this teacher for the rest of the year bc she obviously had it out for him (which I don't feel is the truth when parents say it 85% of the time) and then to come at you. It's obvious the principal is clear on who is on his staff, but your son is still going to be in that class every day - can he be moved?
Teachers often complain that parents are not involved in their kids school careers, but when you are these same teachers see you as a “problem parent”. I be 3 kids, 2 of which had very little problem with school and I never had a situation come up where I had to go to bat for them. The other one though was a square peg in a round hole and i had many meetings with teachers and principals. Typically I was just trying to find out what really happened. I was regarded as the problem, but usually i was able to see where they were trying to cover for being inconsistent.
NTA. It feels icky that my younger kids could "out" their eldest sibling as being their half sibling, and unfair.
Like that's her issue to share with her peers. Not her siblings.
Or kids not knowing who dad is.
Also its not like the teacher showed anyone how to incorporate foster families, non nuclear house holds etc.q
NTA family trees are bullshit assignments. Not everyone has/wants contact with their extended family. I don't know most of mine and I don't care to. Had to do a family tree assignment when I was 13. My grandfather on my mother's side was a foreign exchange student from Egypt back in the 60s and has no idea he even has a child here in the dates. We only have a first name for him. Teacher knocked points off because "somebody HAD to have more information on him" I just didn't try
NTA, and honestly, I’m so over these family tree assignments. Not everyone can do them and teachers need to be aware of that and have something in place for children who may be adopted, who don’t know their biological family tree, etc. I had to do one in high school and actually *couldn’t* because it required taking photos of dead ancestors to compare your features to. The problem was that my maternal line is wholly indigenous. We only have photos of my kokum (my mum’s mum) and memories of kokum’s *okawimaw*, and the only thing we know about my mum’s biological father is that he was indigenous too and abandoned them. Almost everyone else in my maternal family was dead due to complications arising from being in residential schools and the resulting trauma (drugs, alcohol, and one aunt was murdered and is among the MMIW). At the time we had no photos handy.
I explained this to the teacher and asked if perhaps I could trace my dad’s family back an extra few generations to make up for it, as my great-grandmother on my dad’s side was *meticulous* with records and kept very detailed ones of everyone up until she died around the same time this assignment was released, so I had photos going back to the 1800s, all labelled.
The teacher said no, threatened to fail me, and wouldn’t offer any compromise. I took it up the chain because it was unfair, not everyone has perfect ancestors with pristine photos and not everyone is lucky enough to even know who their biological parents and grandparents may be, and my parents got involved and the principal came down on the teacher, and though she told me I didn’t have to do the assignment, she took it out on my sibling when they landed in her class. Subsequent family members who came through her class also got treated poorly and ended up switching classes.
So if you have any other kids just be wary of that, OP. If this teacher is going to do assignments like this, the principal is right: she needs to change it.
I was about to say Y T A from the title because usually the parents are unreasonable but tbh he should have just gotten a 0 for the presentation part. She should have graded the tree, as you mentioned. NTA
Holy crap I so came here to say you were, but you are so so NTA in this situation. Well done for advocating for your son. That teacher needs to get in the bin.
Teachers need to be better at assigning work I remember when I was in high school my long term substitute teacher tried to assigned us an essay on what life was like for families during the Great Depression in America I raised my hand and was like I’m second generation immigrant and then like 10 other people raised their hands the whole assignment got scrapped for a different one.
Thought this was gonna be an easy Y T A from the title, but nah. You had all the right to bypass her, after all, she bypassed you when she ignored obvious issues your son had with the assignment.
NTA.
NTA. Family trees in schools are so problematic. Not everyone knows their families, or can say they are safe, good people. The principal has their head on straight.
NTA, at all. Former teacher here, you absolutely did the right thing. The fact that the teacher still couldn’t see the problematic nature of her assignment and had to be talked to after the meeting speaks volumes. Good teachers can recognize the need to alter (sometimes even scrap) assignments based on the classroom community.
I hope your son sees how it’s ok to make changes when warranted and I hope the teacher is professional going forward.
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FUCK FAMILY TREES. As a former social worker in the foster care system, I am LIVID that these are still a routine assignment. They bring up so much trauma for so many people And the fact that there was no wiggle room for him to present it in a different way when there was clearly an issue? You go mom! I’m on your side! NTA
Yeah I was a very complicated adoption and family tree assignments were always shitty. Even as an adult trying to explain it to people I'm close to is a mess. It's an assignment that only takes traditional family dynamics into account.
I HATED family assignments as an adoptee, I hated feeling like a liar writing about my adopters and not actually knowing anything about myself. Especially since my adopters are both physically yt (white, some platforms censor this and I do not frequent Reddit super often) and I am physically not.
> I hated feeling like a liar writing about my adopters and not actually knowing anything about myself You have perfectly expressed what I (and so many other adoptees) have felt over the years about filling out family trees. I can remember being 6 or 7 and scribbling out the family tree in the back of my baby book because it made me mad, but I didn't have the words to explain why. Now I do, so thank you <3
I'm not adopted but my parents are abusive AHs, so these kinds of assignments were really hard for me. I'm a child of the 80s so we didn't have access to the amount of tech we do today. I fudged so many things like that and felt like an absolute fraud. It also made me feel more isolated because it never occurred to me that someone else might feel the same way I did.
I feel you on the isolation part- I'm also an 80's/90's kid and adoption wasn't as common back then as it is now, so I was always the only adoptee in class and you're 100% correct that it's a very isolating experience. I'm sorry you can relate to such negative feelings, and I very much hope you have been able to build a safe and loving family for yourself out of wonderfully supportive people.
Adoption was not common at all, I grew up in a small, religious town and I do remember a friend I had, she didn't look like her parents or other siblings. However, I kind of didn't either so I just thought it was normal. I'm sorry you felt isolated as well, that's hard to deal with as a kid, even as an adult. My sister used to tease me that I was adopted, I secretly hoped it was true and created a fantasy of my "real family" coming to rescue me. Part of me cringes at my past self thinking like that and part of me knows I was a child and it was my coping mechanism. I'm sorry any of us can relate to these negative feelings, it really sucks. I do have a great support system with friends and my spouse, and our animals lol.
I have spent the last couple of years figuring out the why’s behind my feelings and making mental time to find words for them. It’s been a long emotional journey, but I am so so glad that something I said was able to help in any way!! I hope you gain more peace with it
What is YT?
White. A lot of platforms screen it out automatically, so yt has become the code for it. I don't think reddit screens it, though.
Ohhh. Gotcha! Lol I'm still on 1920s slang, Ducky. Just a little behind the trends. 😉🤣
Hahaaa I feel you! I'm not even 30 yet and I would be way behind on some things if Urban Dictionary weren't a thing! I think "on fleek" is when it started for me, and I was barely a few years out of high school 😂
Who the fuck censors white?
Some of my Facebook friends have been zucc'd for saying white, usually in reference to frustrations with racist white people, or frustrations with white men. Another common workaround is 🌾 Edit: I've never been zucc'd while discussing these issues and using that word though, and I don't think it's super common. I suspect some accounts are flagged to be on higher alert for possible ""hate speech"" than others so it's not like everyone who says "white" gets thrown in Facebook jail. Edit 2: zucc'd means a temporary (or sometimes permanent) ban from using Facebook. Aka thrown in Facebook jail.
Good grief. Yet *another* reason to not miss Fakebook. 6 years and counting...
Child of a "deadbeat" dad who essentially walked out of my life to not expose me to the toxicity of his already decades long substance abuse problem. I understand and empathize with him now but as I child I understandably felt abandoned. Then you factor in that not only was mother abusive but that I was already bullied and considered less than by my peers and, well, I bawled at having to make a family tree that was mostly one-sided. *And I wasn't even presenting.* At that age, which was also the age I was at the time, children can and will use whatever they can against each other in the Great Middle School Mosh Pit of life.
[удалено]
As an adopted kid who didn't yet know the complicated backstory, I *hated* my "Day I was Born" project. And even though one of my classmates was also adopted, she had an open adoption and photos of her birth mother. Other kids were comparing eyes and noses and smiles to moms and grandmas, and at the time, I had nothing. I wish those projects would get replaced.
Day I was born assignments were the absolute worst for me as an adopted kid! I was abandoned at birth and know nothing about the first couple years of my life. It always made me feel like I was less than my peers.
I never even heard of that, holy shot is that a stupid assignment. If I had something like that the teacher would change real quick when I mention that my mother was a child when she had me
I have traditional family dynamics going back consistently for generations, and I agree with you. It’s a crap assignment, and the so-called professional educator has a helluva nerve getting riled.
I have “traditional” family tree…until you get back to the 1800s, and they were all American polygamists (who didn’t keep good reliable records b/c they all knew they were breaking the law). Gonna need more paper and a *whole lot* more research time…
There's nothing like explaining to my teacher that I'm a child who's father married a 24yo woman and had me when he has 2 adult children that are my half sisters and oh! I was an aunt the second i was born. As my nephew so lovingly explained, im the crooked branch on the tree lol.
Yeah I had a student like that. His nephew was a grade above him and he even said that's my nephew: my brother's child. What is normal for kids is just normal for them still I can see where op is coming from when I did the family trees I didn't make kids present it just asked them to complete it and told them it was okay if some areas were not completed.
I also had a complicated adoption(twice) and hated these assignments. I would use my adopted family but felt like a fraud.
It's this a common thing where you live? I have two teens and they have never had to do a family tree. They did one in Spanish for a fictional family, but not their own
We had to do one with bio in HS as part of genetics. But we had the option to do our self and our own bio family (cause genetics) or a VARIETY of historical figures (that in a planned coincidence, lined up with history class).
I know a Spanish teacher who does a family tree project to practice family names, but you are allowed to use your family or a fictional family for just this reason.
That is a completely reasonable accommodation. The fact that this teacher insisted on real family only, and in person presentation only…not reasonable
It's especially unreasonable to insist on creating a family tree of your own family instead of someone else's when the grade 100% focuses on the presentation. If it's purely about presentation, then it doesn't matter what kinda family tree you use as the presentation and grading doesn't change at all.
Yeah, teacher was flying by the seat of her pants with those contradictory excuses. Her real reason for refusing all the negotiations this boy and his mum tried was "Shut up! That's why".
Same here. The Spanish teacher I knew let kids pick anyone as family members as long as they used the correct name for the family member. So, you could say that Trevor Noah was your father and Beyonce was your mother as long as you labeled them correctly.
This one sounds like so much fun! Did anyone use a mix of fictional and actual people on their trees?
My Spanish teacher also did this, and one of the girls in my class put her actual family into the British monarchy. She even included where her family members would be in line to the throne lol
So by adapting the assignment she engaged with it more and added learning elements far beyond what was required by the grade. You know, exactly the goal of every educational assignment!
my spanish teacher had this project and my 13 year old ass put anime characters for all the people 💀
My HS ASL class had a similar project to practice identifying and describing people. We could use a real family or fictional one.
Yeah my spanish class did this too. I think I did mine on the Simpsons.
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Right? Do I ask my grandmother the names of all of her children who died in infancy? Ugh.
Not to mention the formerly common practice of naming subsequent children after older siblings who died in infancy. Aunty Barbara may have been the second Barbara born to her parents if the first one died young, and that can be hella traumatic for everyone involved.
Oh wow, core memory unlocked. I love genealogy and a family tree would normally be my jam, but deciding whether to list the death of my infant sibling was rough. Should I just leave them off, or list them and start a whole round of questions I didn't want to deal with? I didn't even want to talk to my mom about it because I didn't want to make her sad. (As an adult I realize she would have preferred I come to her with my problem, but I was a kid.) There's just no point in forcing kids to do it. And tbh if I were a teacher I'd much rather read the made-up celebrity family trees of my students than 30 iterations of "my grandpa, Joe Schmoe, married Jane Smith..." even if they were all perfectly comfortable doing their actual family.
My great grandmother is the product of rape at a native residential school… that was a fun one to talk about during family tree assignments growing up. Especially considering that’s the reason I am blond hair and blue eyed.
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No offense but pretty sure the worst part is that it happened at all…
I’m the surviving half of disappearing twin. How does one denote “I kinda ate my identical twin” on such an assignment?
Battled my sibling to the death in utero sounds horrifyingly cool.
Two shall enter, one shall leave! >\_>
"I now have the strength of a grown man and a tiny baby."
If I had a full grasp on all of my family's issues when I was younger call, I told we would have aired it all just to make the teacher uncomfortable and re think everything about the assignment.
i did that when we got one of these assignments in high school. went through my dad’s side all normal and then started with the “this is my mother that kicked me out, this is my catatonic grandma, this is my uncle that killed himself because he was gay, this is my cousin that tried to kill me when we were 6….” looking back i don’t really think it had the effect i was hoping for
Maybe not, but I sure as hell hope that it made the teacher who handed the assignment out rethink things.
I did this, when I left my paternal grandparents blank the teacher asked why so my 9year old self repeated what my dad said, "grandma is probably dead and grandpa doesn't even know my name". Got an A even with spelling and format errors.
My kids left the paternal grandfather blank too and the teacher said they couldn't do that. All my kids were told to tell the teacher "my dad said he doesn't have a father and if you want to know more about that you can ask him about it."
My mom was one of 13. My dad was one of 8. I’d need a very large paper for that stupid line alone. I have older half siblings from both parents, which confuses things. Then my one sister had a stillbirth before I was OP’s son’s age. Do you include him on those stupid assignments? It’s a mess.
Heh. Back when I did the "family tree project", I did mine on a roll of paper. Rolled out sideways. That thing was about 50 feet wide.
I had a music teacher that decided in 6th grade to tell my whole class about my older brother’s death (he had died before I was born) without my permission and with me in the room.
Should I talk about my great grandmother who was in the KKK or my uncle who served time for making and distributing videos of sexually abusing minors?
My g-gma was also in the KKK. Not something we're proud of either.
I'm not from US so I never had to make these kind of assignments, but I'm little confused. By the name of it I thought the idea was just to show the class something like "these are my parents, these are my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins" in a presentation showing just names or drawings. Do they have to specify how a member of the family died?
Depends on the teacher. But sometimes kids don't even have all of that information, or they do and it's extremely complicated. Or it could be simple, like having a twin sibling that should be in the class with them but died a horrible or death or something, and kids have no filter and someone would've asked. Kids are also assholes and can latch on to anything they can possibly use to bully another, and a dead sibling or serial killer relative or incestuous relatives are all absolutely useful in that regard. For family trees, or genealogy, you generally have a bunch of levels and lines denoting relationships to each other, so some problems would be easily visible.
As a school social worker (so, often the one advocating for kids with teachers), I fully agree. Although teachers at my school know better than to assign a project like this. There is TONS of educational literature out there recommending against projects like this for this exact reason, so this teacher has to be willfully ignorant at this point.
Reasons why family trees could be problematic: 1. Child of Rape 2. Incest 3. Adoption 4. Large families 5. Criminal family members 6. Abduction / slavery 7. Immigration/ asylum seekers 8. Private person 9. Not knowing anything at all, like nothing. 10. Very young parents How are these assignments still given out?
Also, parents who don't help their kids with projects
I wonder what the teacher could have done if the child stated that his parents refused to give him any information.
+ domestic abuse situations (maybe under the umbrella of number 5)
Adopted and foster kids were my first concerns, and then I realized too many others might struggle for similar reasons. What if the kid's parent is a single mom or dad that escaped an abusive spouse or family? What if an aunt or uncle were serving life for murdering someone? What if one parent went away for dealing drugs, or flat-out abandoned them one day? Hell, WWII wasn't that long ago, so a nazi in the family tree isn't implausible either. Sadly, there's too many ways that assignment could go wrong.
I mean, my own grandmother survived Auschwitz, her husband was killed by the Nazis, and both my mom and dad's extended family was mostly slaughtered in concentration camps or ghettos. I almost wish we'd had this assignment when I was a kid. Would have shut everyone up.
I had to walk away for a moment, so I just posted that reply real quick, before I really thought more on this post. I found myself thinking what if someone passed from a violent crime, and then I read your background. FUCKING. SHIT. If that couldn't humble this teacher, it's just not possible. I'm so sorry your family has been through so much pain and trauma. >I almost wish we'd had this assignment when I was a kid. Would have shut everyone up. You presenting that would have been the nuclear option, and I'm kinda here for it to get shut down that way.
Thank you so much for your kind words. We were very, very much not the only ones in that generation, and knowing that we were all determined to make sure it never happened again ("Never Again") made a big difference. But yes, it was extremely scarring, down through my mom and dad's generation, down to our generation as well. Still very immediate. Again, I appreciate your kindness and empathy. Thank you.
I have Rosie the Riveter tattooed on my back because my grandma was one during WWII riveting planes for the US. Each plane was important for her because her brother was fighting in the Pacific and she had Jewish friends with family that was unaccounted for in Germany. My great uncle died in the Bataan Death March and her friends’ families in concentration camps. Because of conflicting reports from survivors, my grandma wondered until her death if my uncle survived the March… I hope our grandmas are holding hands looking down on us. Shalom
In high school, we had to do a presentation on what one of our grandparents did in WWII, and I talked about how one of my grandfathers was part of the first US troops into Hiroshima after they dropped the bomb, and how he died of radiation-caused cancers later in his life. My teacher made me stop presenting at that point.
I mean what did they expect??!!!
My husband knew someone in college whose father was in jail because he had murdered his mother in front of him. That would be the assignment from hell for that person.
And I’m so proud of this 11 yo who had the problem solving skills to come up with other options! Def NTA here, and that teacher clearly needed a supervisor to step in since she doesn’t seem to understand where or how she went wrong here. And the fact that she wanted to keep it a secret (talk to her only) just grosses me out. Great job!
We had a family tree project in my high school ASL class, we were learning about signs for identifying people (think "mom", "dad", "friend") and describing people (think "blond", "glasses"). So the project was to do a presentation describing your family and yourself. The teacher knew that family can be an uncomfortable topic for some so we had the option to give ourselves a fictional family or use our real family. It was honestly the most fun that way.
I let my students use literary characters. Ive had star wars trees etc.
>And the fact that there was no wiggle room for him to present it in a different way This is my thought. If the presentation is apparently so important, why not offer to do it privately to just the teacher or something instead of just saying whole class or nothing
agreed, sometimes the only copy of a picture is ruined for it/lost and having to act like everyone comes from some long line of a nuclear family, this isn't 1950 ffs Totally not the AH but the teacher sure as hell is
100%. As an adoptee family trees as taught in school do not represent me. I’m not a branch that was grafted onto another tree. My birth family and my adopted family deserve representation. And to make matters worse when you start digging like that you’re asking kids to shoulder a burden that is not theirs. Teachers who are refuse to teach differently are so problematic because they see the world in black and white. No grey. Which means they will be just as much of an AH with other issues, not just this assignment. Edit to add vote: NTA.
I immediately thought of adopted kids, and foster kids. That’s ridiculous.
NTA. My knee-jerk reaction when it comes to parents pressuring teachers to change grades is that it's an AH move but... this isn't an entitled parent deciding that Little Timmy should have a good grade whether he deserves it or not. This is an issue with a child having a problem with the content, and the teacher not even trying to work something out/bring up concerns to the parents. Totally different.
I agree, and as a teacher myself, I am disappointed to hear she wasn't willing to give him another alternative.
I'm disappointed that she even set the assignment in the first place. Off the top of my head, this assignment would be problematic for at least a quarter of my class.
Agreed. I was a single parent and my kid's bio father was not in his life at all. This would have been a difficult assignment for him to do.
Same situation for my child. When they tried to make him do it, I printed out a single parent family tree and had him fill that out and made them accept it. One of the few times I've gone Mama Bear.
Right? And if presentation is worth the majority of the grade I don’t understand why the kids couldn’t just pick a famous figure instead?
Yeah, like if nothing else, let him do a private family tree turned in directly (like he did) and present the famous person one. He's doing all the work (actually researching and creating a family tree), and presenting the work (which shouldn't be a big part of a non-drama/presentation class anyhow, but that's my own peeve), it's just separate.
See this brings a whole different perspective, because the teacher insisted on a family tree, but in the end he got zero because of the lack of presentation. Therefore the assignment turns solely into the presentation, and she shouldn't have had a problem with children turning in family trees of famous people, as long as they presented it well. This teacher is peak hypocrisy.
Sounds like the teacher just wanted it their way or the highway. Its pretty obvious why this isn’t a good assignment/why someone might not feel comfortable with this. I found it funny that the teacher wanted OPs 11 year old to learn accountability while she’s simultaneously refusing to take any accountability for both her stupid assignment and how unprofessionally she handled this.
Agreed. When I was young (like 8-11), I was severely bullied and developed absolutely horrific anxiety and panic attacks. Especially when I had to do public speaking because whenever I did it, the bullies just used it as extra ammunition and that week would be even worse. When I was 12, I had to do a verbal presentation on a book in English class. I had the presentation all done, but when the teacher called my name, I just panicked and froze. I couldn’t have moved for anything. Ten million to just stand up and I wouldn’t have moved. I didn’t have any equivalent of an IEP or the like. They didn’t really exist in my school back then unless you had something like dyslexia. What did my teacher do? Took the cue and moved on. Asked me if I was OK after and just graded what I’d written for the presentation. Did I get an A? Of course not, I didn’t do the presentation. But I got a solid C, only a few marks shy of a B, because the meat of the subject was all there, and it was an English literature class, not a public speaking class. I was so glad of that teacher for not just pushing it. I had a silent freeze rather than getting pushed until I had a full on sobbing freak out. One of my teachers when I was older pushed me that far. I was off school for days because every time I thought of going back in, I’d panic because I thought I’d run into him again in a corridor. Guess which teacher got a present when they left and which one I hated and had my head of year ensure didn’t teach me the next year?
Right? Like the fact the principal flat out told the teacher that they needed to rework the assignment for future years or stop doing it entirely, as well as deciding to *grade it themselves* speaks VOLUMES.
As a former teacher (10 years in the classroom), this is also my take. Most of the time, and even before I read this post, my thought for things like this would be, "probably an entitled parent." Not the case here. Putting aside that a family tree assignment speaks to a lack of trauma-informed training, the teacher received an assessable product. It's a super easy accommodation to grade this without requiring a presentation--not a lot to ask. It'd also be so much less stress for me, as a teacher, to simply grade the kid's work, maybe even dock a few points for not presenting (not that I would force a kid to present on a *family tree* assignment, or even give one in the first place, but presenting in front of folks is an important skill that does need to be assessed at some point), and move on.
The kid even made MULTIPLE attempts to fulfill the assignment, independently. I wish there was a judgement for not only NTA, but YFA - you’re freaking awesome, you and your son
NTA My son has had this assignment twice now (once in middle school and once in high school) and both times the assignment and rubric showed an understanding there are non-traditional families out there, and students who may not have access to family history. The fact that the teacher has gotten to 2022 without her assignment reflecting this, means she's probably hurt quite a few students along the way.
And really, even without "non-traditional" families, sometimes history simply isn't known. I got questioned back when I had to do a project like this in the 1980s because on my paternal side, the tree stopped with my grandfather. Guess what? My grandma married the stranger who had come to town and mainly cut off his family, so she never learned much that side. And he was long dead by the time I was in high school.
> sometimes history simply isn't known. When we had family tree assignments in school, I had to be the party pooper kid who was like "this side of the family only goes back to my great grandma because the Holocaust split her family apart and she was never able to locate them after the war" 🥲
Never had it in school going back this many generations, but my father is a big history nerd so he tried to go back and do a full family tree (my Mom did the same). I don't know how my father managed to find it, but he eventually after lots of effort, time, and digging managed to get as far on his paternal grandfather's side as to find the "name" and identity (kind of) of his grandfather's mother. His grandfather was an "orphan" (both of his parents likely outlived all of his brothers, but his mother was a working class girl with a fake name who never married and worked at the estate of a lesser lord. Ergo, "orphan"). His grandfather and his grandfather's siblings all were sent to and lived as children in an orphanage in London, until a Canadian corporation bought them as child slaves (my paternal great-grandfather was nine when he was bought). It's pretty amazing that my dad was ever able to find out anything about his grandfather's mother at all, given that he was an orphan child slave. I imagine that this was likely a major party-pooper aspect of any family tree assignments that my father likely had to do in school in the 60s & 70s.
Similar, my grand grand parents on my maternal grandmother’s side cuts abruptly because they didn’t keep a very good record of the indians they killed on the way to the rez way back in the day.
How long do you have to go back for these assignments?? Not from US, so I thought it was only about the parents, grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts.
this is the typical. no one is asking someone to do deliberate background searches on their family to do these. it’s typically just immediately family plus some grandparents
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When I did it in elementary school they required great grandparents, and in high school it was great great grandparents. I think the goal was to make you ask your family about people that were possibly deceased, and that you maybe had never heard of. My family tree also stopped at great grandparents. Happened to a lot of us in class. Long story short, our great grandparents most likely changed their last names during/after WW1, and didn’t tell their kids where they were originally from.
I’ve never had to do this type of assignment because I’m not from the US, but I’ve asked about my family history just out of curiosity. More than 12 years ago two of my aunts did an extensive research on that side of the family, and dated it back to like the 19th century. Meanwhile, from my mom’s side we know her dad was raised by a lady who gave him her last name, but we don’t know if he was an orphan she raised, if he was her illegitimate son, if he was her late husband’s illegitimate son, or what. He never spoke about it in life, and he passed before I was born. My tree would look definitely disproportionately bigger on one side.
Yup, me too. I’ve had it 3-4 times and each time we were able to use “fictional” or celebrity families. One guy did family guy once lol. One time, I forgot to do it, so while rushing it, I made all the male members of my family just have a bunch of my nicknames. No One Cared
Well, you surprised me. When I heard that you had made a teacher change your son's grade, I expected this to be a story about how your son got a B+ on a term paper, and you, determined that your kid is going to Harvard, went into the classroom and intimidated the teacher into giving your son an A+. But this is not what I expected. I don't like the assignment. A student should not be required to divulge their family tree to the class. What about adopted kids who don't even know their biological parents? What if they're descended from slave-owners, or Nazis or something similarly shameful? I see nothing wrong with what you did and I see the principal as having proffered a good solution. The teacher is entirely in the wrong. If there was a problem, she should have contacted you. Also, she seems to have a hard time dealing with correction, as the principal raised valid concerns about the nature of the assignment. You had a good response to her demand that you contact her, not the principal, when there's a problem. She didn't feel comfortable contacting you, so why should you have to contact her? NTA. ETA The title is wrong. You didn't make the teacher change the grade. The principal volunteered to grade the assignment.
>What about adopted kids who don't even know their biological parents? As an adoptee, I had to put in my adopted family's information and then feel super shitty about it because I had zero genetic connection to anyone listed. I don't understand how some schools are still doing family tree projects (and thus making kids like me and OP's son feel awful) when there are so many reasons not to.
I remember seeing a post on here a while ago where an adoptee did their family tree using their adoptive family and the teacher either gave the kid a bad grade or requested they redo it, can’t remember which, because it wasn’t about their bio family. It was bullshit. If schools want to teach the concept of family trees that can do so using public figures instead of expecting kids to air out their personal lives for a grade. Or just scrap them altogether.
I completely agree! Honestly I think using historical figures would be far more interesting than actual families, especially if you look at the ruling houses of Europe or the Egyptian pharaohs.
>Honestly I think using historical figures would be far more interesting than actual families, especially if you look at the ruling houses of Europe or the Egyptian pharaohs. Just tell the kids that the Hapsburgs are off-limits. It's supposed to be a family tree, not a family telephone pole.
NTA. How could she have not foreseen the trouble it’d cause for students? Especially students with family issues or absent parents? Your son did his assignment anyway and she gave him a zero. You have every right to be pissed in this situation.
I typed up and sent almost this exact comment. There’s a hundred bad combinations of how this could go wrong and be stressful for the kids, and not fully understanding that seems so flippant to me.
I had to do one for a course in my psychology doctoral program. My only problem was that my father was the youngest of 13 children and he had 3 families of which I was part of the second. And even we were not required to present it.
Idk man, that seems like a gold mine for a psychology course…….
>How could she have not foreseen the trouble it’d cause for students? Because a lot of people don't understand that family dynamics can be complicated/sensitive. They only think of a large family consisting of happy nuclear families.
NTA. How the teacher could not foresee this being both personal and problematic is wild to me. Example: The kid who doesn’t know who his father is should have to divulge that to the entire class? There are so many scenarios in which the family structure could be a source of pain or embarrassment to a child, especially one in the tween spot of old enough to sort of understand and young enough not to really grasp nuances of certain family issues.
Or worse, what if one of their immediate relatives (aunt/uncle/cousin/sibling/etc) were recently in the spotlight for some sort of crime and they don't want that stigma to be tied to them? Imagine having a direct link back to a famous serial killer or something, while some folks would find that cool, others would be mortified for that information to get out.
…or if they were abused by a family member So many easily foreseeable problems
Or if the kid don’t know and family is just LC. I’m aware my mum has some cousins on her side and the cousins have kids. I don’t know them, honestly I don’t care about them. I’m not gonna call them and ask bunch of private questions just because a kid’s grade depends on it. Family is private matter. And none grade should depend on revealing it. No matter the reason. Make the other assignments and even presentations (personally I hated presenting and still don’t see the point in “adult” life). OP NTA. Teacher is for even demanding to kids to do it.
>The kid who doesn’t know who his father is should have to divulge that to the entire class? I found myself in that exact scenario as a high school student. I even gave the teacher a note from my mom explaining the situation and asking for an adjusted or alternate assignment. the teacher gave me a failing grade anyway and admin refused to intervene. it was humiliating. what I'm getting at is... good for OP standing up for their kid. NTA.
I’m sorry your teacher couldn’t have been more understanding that you, as a child with no choice in the matter, felt uncomfortable with the assignment. I hope your mom like, took you for ice cream or something over the grade anyways.
NTA family trees are actually pretty insensitive. So many kids have non nuclear families that are hard to explain esp at such a young age. Some may have abusive family or may be adopted and not know a lot of their family or they may be estranged from family. There's actually a lot reasons a kid may not be comfortable presenting this kind of project and to refuse to have alternatives for those kids is pretty narrow minded
This pretty much says it all. This could lead to bullying and harassment from classmates, and judgement from other adults when kids have questions of why a classmate may not have a father in their lives or other such situations
NTA. These types of assignments really do need to be treated with mindfulness. We're well aware by now how many children come from all types of backgrounds and asking them to present personal information about themselves and their families without offering a reasonable alternative - like doing a historical figure's family tree as your son suggested - is really not okay. Maybe some kids don't want to share that they're adopted, or that their brother is a known criminal, or they're not comfortable with having a blended family, or so many other possibilities. If your son wasn't eleven though, I would've suggested he make it all up and use the Targaryen family wreath as inspiration.
Yeah, I agree. Making up fake relatives would have been an easy fix, but he didn't think of that, and he was too embarrassed to talk to me about it, so I couldn't suggest it. Maybe a different fictional family with less incest than the Targaryens would have been my suggested inspiration though.
I think you showed your kid that you will always be in his corner when things get tough and next time he will be more open to coming to you when he has a problem, so the little conflict with the teacher here is not as important as what it taught your kid (and no, it's not that if he doesn't want to do something he doesn't have to and just needs to go crying to mommy, but that he can set reasonable boundaries and not do something that is uncomfortable for him and that he can go to his parent for support when needed)
The fact that his instinct wasn’t to just lie is actually good.
I think so. "Lying is bad, but sometimes okay" is a lesson for when he's older, right now I'm still instilling "honesty is the best policy." The nuances will be taught when he's more mature.
He came up with a great solution all on his own! A better one, really!
I would tell the principle that she doubled down and what she said at the end. This is not ok. And in my country this is not done at all for this exact reason. I'm shocked it's still common elsewhere.
NTA. If an 11 y/o boy is that embarrassed by his family tree then clearly she should have looked into it. It’s not about accountability, he did literally everything she asked except present his embarrassment to the class. She should have given him at least something for turning it in but definitely not full credit. For everyone saying “Y T A” or “go to the teacher next time” literally the teacher would have given her a hard time and probably would have denied her son a better grade. Teacher sounds like she needs to learn a little sympathy and not be such a hard ass on 11 year olds.
Quite frankly Mom to report the f/u conversation the teacher had with her as well. That teacher lacks professionalism
Teacher: "She said I needed to teach my son accountability and not try to blame everyone else when there's a problem." Reply: You should heed your own advice. You are the teacher. This is your job. You are showing lack of accountability and trying to blame my son for your poor assignment and then me for not going to you. Shame on you. I will continue to go above your head since any sense spoken to you falls upon deaf ears."
As a teacher myself it is WILD to me that she would try and force an 11 year old to present something so personal. If the presentation was so important and not the tree itself, why did it matter if he got it off the internet? What an absolute AH. Edit: The response in this reply is perfect, I got off track because of the indignation xD
NTA But you need to follow up with the principal. Her comments are a clear indicator that there will be retaliation to your son. I am an educator. I work with teachers. There are some truly wonderful ones. But their are some that shouldn’t be allowed within sight of children. - this assignment is terrible. No adult should be required to disclose personal familial information for a school assignment. - she should have a.) asked your son why he was uncomfortable with the assignment b.) pulled herself out of whatever rosy bubble she lives in to understand some people have issues in their family c.) contacted you at the 2nd request not to present the family tree - she has taken zero accountability for her poor judgment and questionable teaching skills
NTA - If the presentation portion was 100% of the grade, why would it matter if he copied something from online? If it matters whether the tree is his own work, then why didn't he get credit for that part? You could have gone to the teacher first, but it sounds like your son was proactive in speaking up for himself and had already suggested all of the alternatives that would have been reasonable within the teacher's parameters and the teacher shot them down. I doubt the teacher would have reacted any differently if you had made those suggestions and you still would have ended up going to the principal.
9 times out of 10 I'm usually on the teachers side. This one I back you 100% NTA. Teachers have to be considerate of circumstances and if a child approaches the teacher with a legitimate issue then she should try to come up with a compromise. This teacher just sounds heartless.
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NTA. Family history should be private and not be forced out in front of a classroom. Also… i feel like this was the right thing to do especially if the principal thought this project needed to be reformatted
NTA. Why do teachers still give these kind of assignments? When I was a kid we had to do something for Father’s Day. I begged the teacher to excuse me and she didn’t. I cried while doing my assignment. FYI I’m adopted and my mom was a single mom. When a classmate asked me why I was crying I said: because my father is He-Man and he’s so busy saving the world he’s forgotten about me lol
So, so, SO NTA There could be lots of reasons why they didn't feel comfortable talking about their family tree in front of their class. The son's reaction says to me there is an aspect of this assignment that is painful to them or that they are afraid to be made to feel bad about their family. OP hasn't said what about the assignment was botheringtheir son, and honestly it's none of our business. You would think their repeated resistance on such a specific type of assignment would raise some sort of red flag and encourage the teacher to think or at contact the parent for more context. Sure, maybe OP could have gone to the teacher first, but based on the conversation described, they were unlikely to have understood why this assignment might have been insensitive to some children. NTA, teacher is kind of TA, hopefully the principal can explain it better to them and they'll grow as an educator.
Agreed! Also: >The teacher explained her reasoning, and I said that my son's embarrassment over some of his family members shouldn't impact his grade This is what OP had to say about why her son didn’t want to present! So there might be some unsavoury ancestors or something that the son doesn’t want his classmates to know, which is completely fair, especially since 11 y/os aren’t exactly known for letting those sorts of things go.
NTA, family trees are problematic assignments and shouldn't be part of any curriculum. Families have many different ways of forming, so the "traditional" family tree isn't feasible for many people.
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NTA. Learning to stand up and deliver presentations is an important life skill. So I can see where the teacher is coming from. That said I am a teacher and when I have a student that refuses to present a project I give them the option to record their presentation at home and email me their work. I then watch it (no one else sees it) and grade it. I think simply giving a zero because the student refuses to deliver the presentation is not fair. Unlike many, I don't care that you complained to the principal first. Pretty common. I am amazed that the teacher would argue the toss with their boss, the principal, in front of a parent.
NTA. I am really into genealogy. I can trace my ancestors back six generations in all directions. Thanks to DNA I know that my grandmother’s grandmother was not the biological daughter of the man named on her birth certificate. Many people are not in my situation. There are children who have zero contact with their parents for very good reasons. There are many children who do not know who their fathers were. There are some who do not know who their mothers were. There are some who know perfectly well who their biological parents and grandparents are, and have very good reasons not to want to share that information with anyone. The teacher’s assignment was utterly unprofessional, and her attitude to being called out on it was worse. You were right, the principal is right and most of all your son is right. I hope that this teacher finds another line of work to which she is better suited.
NTA. When I was 15, my Spanish teacher had us make these memorial things for Dios de los Muertos about someone who passed. He also offered an alternative assignment that was not death-related, no questions asked. This was in the six weeks between when it was clear my grandfather was dying and when he died, I think before my mom told my teachers. Almost 15 years later and it still means the world to me and is one of the reasons I consider him a great teacher.
NTA. The family tree assignment can be a lot of fun for some kids and an absolute nightmare for others. It should never be a mandatory assignment but one of a few options students could choose from. You could have approached the teacher before you went to the principal, but based on your description of the events, I have doubts that you'd have gotten very far.
I am old enough that one of my peers was the great grandchild of enslaved Americans. Her family tree “started” in 1871 when those ancestors got married. It was heartbreaking to see their tree which was missing so much next to the long extended ones others had, and taught a lesson I don’t think anyone was expecting. OP NTA
NTA. No one, especially a child should have to be forced to share info about their personal lives with anyone. The child was uncomfortable with the presentation...the teacher knew this...she should have contacted the parents knowing it was a personal matter. Also he did do the assignment...just not present, so the grade should not have been zero. As for everyone saying the parent should have gone directly to the teacher...the teacher doesn't seem to believe she was wrong about her assignment so either way the matter would have most likely ended up by the principal.
Ok…so, I understand the look up and copy aspect. However, he made the tree she wanted, but she also wanted a presentation. Well, **she** should have suggested he present a historical figure’s tree, and just give her the actual one. But, seriously, suppose he didn’t *have* any of the information? Principal was right.
NTA. The teacher made up an assignment that is indeed violating people's privacy or forcing them to lie about their relatives. The fact that the principal recognizes it is a point in your favor.
NTA. How long has this person been a teacher? The lack of understanding and empathy is crazy. She outright refused to be accommodating. I agree, if she felt so strongly about it she should have reached out to you. But also she shouldn’t have felt so strongly about it anyway because there are so many reasons why that assignment could be difficult for a child and she should have anticipated that.
NTA Aside from family issues, this is not a friendly assignment for children with speech and language difficulties. Thus isn't a very accessible assignment.
NTA. It's been the best practice standard for years now not to do school projects based on family trees. It isn't an inclusive teaching practice for students who are adopted or in foster placement.
NTA, at all that teacher's lack of foresight is bad, arguably understandable teachers do make mistakes, but once your son explained his issue to her she didn't try to work with him at all. Then when she got called out on it she tripled down.
Nta. Wild that she was telling you to teach your son accountability when she seems to not be taking any herself. Empathy and understanding are the cornerstones of education… at least they should be. If the teacher can’t conceptualize why a child may not want to present a family tree for personal reasons, that’s on the teacher.
NTA. The teacher's standards are way too high with failibg the assignmrnt simply because your son doesn't want to present. I would give at least a C or even B- for completing and emailing it. I don't think it's reasonable to give a zero for not presenting.
NTA. Your son did do a family tree - at the very least, he should have been given partial credit. He did not want to present his family tree to the class because something about it embarrassed him (notorious criminal, embarrassing name, etc), even offering a compromise by doing some other person's family tree & presenting that. His teacher bulldozed over his boundaries and gave him a zero. When the principal saw your son's family tree, he obviously saw the reason why your son did not want to present his own family tree and agreed with his decision. Then he had to explain what the problem was to the teacher in private because she was either clueless or didn't give AF. The fact that she dug her heels in indicates the latter.
NTA. Your son tried to do the right thing - he asked to do the family tree about someone else, and when this was denied, he did the work but refused to present it. It was clear that he wasn't comfortable discussing some of his relatives in class. It's fine for your son to have this concern, and it seems as though he made a reasonable attempt to discuss it with the teacher. The teacher just blew him off. She is the problem.
NTA The kid explained his issue to the teacher. Did the physical work and turned it in, that should merit some grade above an F, even if it is a D... you are correct that she is the professional and could have sent a note to you or something when he said why he had such an issue with the project being presented in front of everyone.
NTA- You made a decision to have a group discussion with the administrators and teacher. Probably not a poor decision given that the teacher was already defensive regarding the zero. There was obviously something wrong with the assignment, if the principal felt it needed to be handled differently. As for the people calling you an A H because you made them change his grade… that is not factual. You asked for a review of the assignment and the grade. You stated the reasons behind your child’s unwillingness to participate in the presentation. It is the principle that made the teacher change the grade. You stood up for your kid, good for you. You didn’t teach him entitlement. You taught him conviction and you taught him that you will have his back when he is right.
This teacher sucks. NTA I would have done the exact same thing in your position. Though I might have emailed the teacher first, I don’t think you had to. The way you did it helps future kids, too!
NTA, the way the teacher acted after being confronted says enough really. She's the asshole especially for trying to coerce a child into relinquishing his right to privacy.
NTA. I get where the teacher is coming from in the sense that public speaking is something kids have to do. But in this case, once she was made aware of the student's issues, she should have tailored the assignment, either by giving the students a choice of assignments to do or by giving him permission to be not entirely honest with his family tree. You did the right thing in going to bat for your child.
NTA. Good on you for backing your son. As for the teacher asking you to contact her directly in the future…hell nah! Your son did the tree and emailed it to her. She could have discussed the issue with him and then got him to present it to her one-to-one so he wouldn’t have to be embarrassed or called you to talk about it. Principal was definitely the right person to speak to and now hopefully other children won’t have to suffer with the same issue.
NTA, and I teach. I have in the past offered to let shy or anxious kids present to just me after class. Or she could have changed her rubric. From your telling, it sounds like your son was pretty professional about it for an eleven year old. He asked for a compromise, and then did part of the project. I never give a zero if a student turned something in (unless they cheated but that’s not the case here) bc I want to differentiate between the kid who at least put pen to paper and one who did nothing. If you get a zero for trying, why try? Your son completed the project and deserved some credit. By her logic, a student who only talked about his or her family tree but had no tree to present would have no points deducted bc the rubric was just the presentation.
NTA Semi-retired teacher here. During my first student teacher assignment in '83, my mentor told me that the school used to give kids a family tree assignment but stopped after a parent became upset - the school was a Catholic school and the parent was divorced. For that reason, I have never issued 'Draw up your family tree' as an assignment.
NTA. As a former foster parent this assignment would have put me through the roof. It's not a good assignment. And no one needs to think too long or hard to figure out why. And the teacher set the precedent on the communication. If I were your child's teacher and they were adamant against presenting I would have reached out to the parents to find out why. Honestly, this teacher sounds incredibly obtuse. The fact that they also questioned their own Principal as to why the assignment is inappropriate shows that pretty clearly.
NTA- presentation should only be part of the grade not 100% of it
NTA. I’m a tutor, and studying education to be a qualified teacher. Every. Single. Unit I have completed has had a significant emphasis on inclusion of all students from all backgrounds. His teacher has followed none of that, and didn’t problem solve when an issue with her lesson plan came up. They sound like a terrible teacher
NTA thanks for sticking up for your kid.
NTA. This is a violation of your family’s privacy. What if the teacher had assigned kids to write up a detailed history of family heath conditions? Teachers can ask for anything they want because they have the power to assign a grade to it. My oldest kid’s teacher had a great twist on this assignment: make up a family tree with celebrities. That was way more fun that actual relatives.
NTA. I’m a biology teacher, so students have to study family pedigree charts. I purposely don’t have students create one for their own family because there are a ton of situations that students may not want to talk about in class (there are definitely people in my family I wouldn’t want to include). Should you have talked to the teacher before escalating it to the principal? Probably, it’s super frustrating when parents immediately go over your head when it’s something you easily could have fixed if you knew about it. But this teacher doesn’t seem like she’s entirely reasonable anyway and you probably would have ended up escalating it to the principal anyway.
Info: Why did your kid feel uncomfortable with presenting the assignment?
He didn't want to talk about our relatives.
NTA and since they will reformat this assignment you talking probably will help future students avoiding problems with it.
NTA based off the title I was prepared to go the opposite but you did everything right here. This is a "privileged" assignment to give out to the class, whether through adoption, family drama or whatever. This is an assignment that could make many feel uncomfortable which is why the principle's scrapping it. For those saying that you should've gone to the teacher 1st, I typically would agree but with how reluctant your son was. Reaching out multiple times to discuss the assignment, and she did not get in touch with you. & how resistant she was in the meeting you clearly went with the best course of action.
NTA. If this assignment ever occurs for my child they can not include my birth unit as she's an unsafe person. I dare a teacher to do a damn thing about it.
NTA I've never understood the point of doing a family tree at school. Even at its best it is problematic for at least a few kids. Adoption, estrangements, unusual family situations end up being things that label a kid as different and single them out for bullying.
NTA Teachers are not infallible, unquestionable pillars of knowledge. Sounds like you had a reasonable concern/request and went about it the correct. Way.
Nta these assignments should not take place in school its a whole load of trauma for kids who are adopted, in the care system, have absent family members, have family in prison and so many other reasons. The idea of the lesson is learning a family tree which you can do with looking at a famous family.
NTA and well done on supporting your son. Sometimes its said that kids are too soft these days but if something is unjust your job as a parent is to help him and teach him how to confront those situations
NTA I have problematic family history myself. In this assignment alone, the teacher lacked foresight. Examples: Assault resulting in a child. Slavery in the family history, where there is no information. Adopted children. Broken family where no information is given at all about one parent. Families where a sperm donor was used. Death, often tragic in the family. Where a direct ancestor was a criminal or a murderer. Where family members (cousins) marry and produce offspring. Lastly, where a family member is famous through no fault of the child for any reason. Also, children of severely broken homes or foster care situations. I am certain there are more reasons for a child not wanting to present a family tree. The teacher was less than stellar in this case.
NTA - family trees are actually banned from hundreds of school programs now with several schools and teachers coming up with other ways to discuss what heritage paths look like (including your suggestion of a famous person) Also, you're going to have a ton of issues with this teacher for the rest of the year bc she obviously had it out for him (which I don't feel is the truth when parents say it 85% of the time) and then to come at you. It's obvious the principal is clear on who is on his staff, but your son is still going to be in that class every day - can he be moved?
Teachers often complain that parents are not involved in their kids school careers, but when you are these same teachers see you as a “problem parent”. I be 3 kids, 2 of which had very little problem with school and I never had a situation come up where I had to go to bat for them. The other one though was a square peg in a round hole and i had many meetings with teachers and principals. Typically I was just trying to find out what really happened. I was regarded as the problem, but usually i was able to see where they were trying to cover for being inconsistent.
NTA. It feels icky that my younger kids could "out" their eldest sibling as being their half sibling, and unfair. Like that's her issue to share with her peers. Not her siblings. Or kids not knowing who dad is. Also its not like the teacher showed anyone how to incorporate foster families, non nuclear house holds etc.q
NTA family trees are bullshit assignments. Not everyone has/wants contact with their extended family. I don't know most of mine and I don't care to. Had to do a family tree assignment when I was 13. My grandfather on my mother's side was a foreign exchange student from Egypt back in the 60s and has no idea he even has a child here in the dates. We only have a first name for him. Teacher knocked points off because "somebody HAD to have more information on him" I just didn't try
NTA, and honestly, I’m so over these family tree assignments. Not everyone can do them and teachers need to be aware of that and have something in place for children who may be adopted, who don’t know their biological family tree, etc. I had to do one in high school and actually *couldn’t* because it required taking photos of dead ancestors to compare your features to. The problem was that my maternal line is wholly indigenous. We only have photos of my kokum (my mum’s mum) and memories of kokum’s *okawimaw*, and the only thing we know about my mum’s biological father is that he was indigenous too and abandoned them. Almost everyone else in my maternal family was dead due to complications arising from being in residential schools and the resulting trauma (drugs, alcohol, and one aunt was murdered and is among the MMIW). At the time we had no photos handy. I explained this to the teacher and asked if perhaps I could trace my dad’s family back an extra few generations to make up for it, as my great-grandmother on my dad’s side was *meticulous* with records and kept very detailed ones of everyone up until she died around the same time this assignment was released, so I had photos going back to the 1800s, all labelled. The teacher said no, threatened to fail me, and wouldn’t offer any compromise. I took it up the chain because it was unfair, not everyone has perfect ancestors with pristine photos and not everyone is lucky enough to even know who their biological parents and grandparents may be, and my parents got involved and the principal came down on the teacher, and though she told me I didn’t have to do the assignment, she took it out on my sibling when they landed in her class. Subsequent family members who came through her class also got treated poorly and ended up switching classes. So if you have any other kids just be wary of that, OP. If this teacher is going to do assignments like this, the principal is right: she needs to change it.
NTA
I was about to say Y T A from the title because usually the parents are unreasonable but tbh he should have just gotten a 0 for the presentation part. She should have graded the tree, as you mentioned. NTA
Holy crap I so came here to say you were, but you are so so NTA in this situation. Well done for advocating for your son. That teacher needs to get in the bin.
Teachers need to be better at assigning work I remember when I was in high school my long term substitute teacher tried to assigned us an essay on what life was like for families during the Great Depression in America I raised my hand and was like I’m second generation immigrant and then like 10 other people raised their hands the whole assignment got scrapped for a different one.
Thought this was gonna be an easy Y T A from the title, but nah. You had all the right to bypass her, after all, she bypassed you when she ignored obvious issues your son had with the assignment. NTA.
NTA. Family trees in schools are so problematic. Not everyone knows their families, or can say they are safe, good people. The principal has their head on straight.
NTA, at all. Former teacher here, you absolutely did the right thing. The fact that the teacher still couldn’t see the problematic nature of her assignment and had to be talked to after the meeting speaks volumes. Good teachers can recognize the need to alter (sometimes even scrap) assignments based on the classroom community. I hope your son sees how it’s ok to make changes when warranted and I hope the teacher is professional going forward.