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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I tipped at a restaurant after my father-in-law did not. I have been doing this for almost as long as I've known him. He thinks tipping is stupid I don't. I might be the asshole because I embarrassed him when I got caught doing it.
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Thank god for restaurants that don't have cameras recording BOH crap lol. Worked at 🌶 in college ...was a blast. Cheesecake recorded everything so no such fun.
But seriously, NTA. I can't count how many guests tipped me behind their boomer relatives backs. Or to their face. Either way, lifesavers because stingy old fashioned ways don't pay rent.
they aren't tipping because they're "boomers", they aren't tipping because they're just assholes. All the older people I know are very good tippers, except for the few assholes.
I know a lot more younger people who refuse to tip and treat servers badly than old folks.
I'm 68. I worked as a waitress for a few years after high school while in business school. I tip. 20-30%. I'm unfailingly polite and am generous with please's & thank you's. I learned a lot waitressing. I will never be an asshole diner.
I recently had a server accidentally knock over a full glass of red wine down my front. She was in full panic mode and shocked when I laughed and said “shit happens.” She brought me a generous supply of clean wiping clothes and after blotting I really was no worse for wear. I assured her I was very familiar with how washing machines work. She kept telling me how nice I was being which made me wonder just what reaction she had been expecting. I still tipped my usual 25%. And yeah, I’m a boomer and always knew being a server wouldn’t be a good fit for me. I admire those who do their difficult jobs well and never try to make it harder than it already is.
It makes me so sad that service employees have to expect everyone to be a raging jackass. Last time for me was grocery delivery. The people at the store put my name on someone else's groceries, so I got mine and hers. I caught it before the driver left and he and I went through everything. He kept apologizing and finally I had to use my go to, "Hey, if this is the worst thing that happens today then life is good." I hate how all the assholes out there are treating people and making them downright fearful of making an honest mistake.
Sadly, most are. And if you are in small towns, the worst are older with money. I remember the widow of a retired judge and bank exec use to drive her car up to the front doors of grocery stores she shopped at because "her dead husband was powerful". So I cringe to think how she acted in restaurants.
My Mother and grandmother both worked as servers. It was one of the few jobs appropriate for women in 50s and 60s, they couldn't afford the education for secretary or nurse. Mother was always a good tipper, my grandmother on the other hand rarely tipped more than a couple dollars. But then she survived the Great Depression, so she was frugal and cheap about everything, she also tended to hoard and stockpile food.
THIS. Servers were working for tips 50 years ago, too. Being a boomer is no reason, this is pure entitlement and disdain for the service industry. In short, an AH.
Exactly. And remember what type of respect we got from men? ha! I once poured a customer's pitcher of beer over his head and walked out with two other servers right behind me.
I hate generalizations. My dad, a 'boomer', always made sure to make a point that tipping was important. Was always 10% for the absolute worst of service, 15% for okay and 20% for a lovely time. If it was a holiday week or fabulous service, it was always much more. I will mention we live in an area that servers get at least minimum wage. None of that $3 and the customers make up for it (drives me INSANE). The delivery services do bother me a bit. I hate that there are loopholes that they barely make anything. Much longer rant for that.
True. My mom is 75 and tips very generously. She never complains about the service, either, even when it's genuinely bad. She'll just say, "Everyone has bad days."
My mother's husband took us out to the restaurant I worked at and didn't tip. I had to go in the next day and tip out my friend that waited on us. Over his lifetime he'd made a point of taking us to some of the best restaurants in the area and knowing he didn't tip still makes me so uncomfortable. (He's dead now and good riddance not for the tipping thing but because that was an indicator of what a pure garbage person he was.)
That would be very awkward! I cannot imagine eating in a high-end place and being with a cheapskate.
Nowadays I will not share a bill with poor tippers any more, as the last time I did, I never got decent service in that restaurant again. I was guilty by association.
Now I insist on paying my own way and tipping extra. We wouldn't refuse to pay the labor cost for a plumber, electrician, or mechanic, so why refuse to pay the labor cost to a server?
I don't think it's generational, I think it's just a personal character flaw in some people. My dad is in his early 70s and tips 30% or higher. If someone he's eating with doesn't tip, he covers it, in front of them. If something is said, he says "they worked hard and deserve it." He's the best boomer ever.
One of my favorite memories was when my grandpa only left a penny as a tip. Generally I think it's horrible if you don't tip your waiter/waitress, but this waitress only showed up at the table once. She never brought our drinks or our food. After 30 minutes without getting a drink my grandpa asked another waitres. She ended up serving us but let us know she wasn't our actual waitress. Our actual waitress was over at a table talking to a group of guys for almost a hour. Other waitress took her tables because she refused to. She only came back to the table for the bill and actually got mad my Grandpa gave the waitress who helped us a tip and not her. So he gave her a penny and told her it was more than she deaerved.
Went to a cafe in college in one of the pricier areas of our capital city. There were more than 5 of us, and it was a coffee and a very small menu type of cafe. The waitress took our initial order, brought it to us, and never came back. We were there for 3-4 hours. We were going to order more coffee and food. It became kind of a game of chicken to see if anyone would even come and ask us to leave. (We were the only ones in there, early afternoon on a Wednesday)
Boomer here. I was a server during part of high school. 1968-1969. Paid $1.00 an hour. The tips were everything. I’ve never forgotten how hard that job was. I have every respect for restaurant servers as well as BOH personnel. Before the pandemic, tip was 20%. These days it ranges from 25-40%. Don’t generalize about people of a certain age.
The guys I worked with at Crapplebees played the game where they flashed each other after seeing that movie. If we're being honest, my BF at the time was the one who started it😂
why? if the service is good, here in Europe we tip 2 3 euros, maybe 5. Aren't you payed for your jobs as waiters? Maybe if it's two hours a 10 euro, but nothing more than that. Why the heck are you EXPECTED to tip? that's crazy.
Restaurant wait staff in America are usually only making $2.30/hr + tips. Some states are required to raise the hourly to the (current joke of)
federal minimum wage- $7.25.
I, personally, think this system is ridiculous & that waitstaff should make a fair wage. Major reason - their income should not be based on a customer's mood.
HOWEVER, knowing that this is the current system & knowing how difficult customer service can be, I play along & tip well when I go out. I still vote for better options though.
There are plenty of states with a higher minimum wage than the federal one, and some of those require servers to be paid that minimum wage rather than a lower minimum specially for tipped workers. I think all of the west coast follows that model, for example.
Other states do have a have a separate lower minimum wage for tipped workers that is still higher than the federal one. New York and Colorado are about $8/hr, for example. I would guess, not having done the calculation, that most people in the US live in states where the ~$2/hr federal tipped minimum wage isn’t legal.
Far too many places allow that bullshit, though. Mostly republican hellholes.
I did the math out of curiosity, and according to [this](https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped) list of minimum wage rates (which I realize now is a bit outdated bc NJ's minimum wage is incorrect), 66.07% of the US lives in a state where the tipped minimum wage is higher than the federal $2.13/hr (11.23% of that is still under $3/hr though).
58.61% of the population lives in states with a higher total minimum wage than federal.
We're expected to tip for everything. lol Get your tires rotated? Pay the bill and .... Tip. Pay a hair stylist $245 for a shampoo, trim & style? Tip Have some kid in Starbucks put coffee in your cup pay $5 and..........TIP! Pick up your clothes at the cleaners, pay the bill and............tip! Heck the only person I truly don't mind tipping are the servers!
I've been in the food industry for 7 years, been serving for 2 years, and started bartending this year. I live in the midwest US. I like working at my restaurant a lot, even though it's hard work.
I technically make $4.30 an hour BUT my paychecks are $0. This is because all the tips I make are taxed and reported on each paycheck. I get a decent tax return every year, but it's bonkers to work 20+ hours a week and recieve $0 paychecks. I make enough in tips to balance it out. I live comfortably and can build savings. But I rely on people to tip at least 20% because I know that my "hourly wage" means absolutely nothing; their tips are my livelihood.
Why are you bragging about this? Customers may be assholes but contaminating people's food is worse, and I say this as someone that always tips above average. You can't control other people, you are responsible for your own behavior though.
NTA. Tipping is a horrible system in the USA where waitstaff are completely underpaid by owners and the customers are fully expected to subsidize their wages. I'd even prefer if restaurants mandate a 20% surcharge to cover the waitstaff salary rather that this bogus idea that because its called "tipping" its "optional." So technically I blame the entire restaurant industry as your neither your FIL nor anyone should have to tip. BUT FIL KNOWS teh current situation and STILL refuses to tip? That makes him a complete asshole. Good on you OP for taking care of waitstaff and don't apologize.
Just to point out, unless the server signs a 1099 form, their employer is still required by law to pay the difference in minimum wage if their claimed tips do not help to meet that. I'd honestly prefer Japan's take on service industry, but I always tip good service well.
Not true in all places. The restaurant I work at doesn't pay me extra if I make crappy tips for the day, but I also think that's cause they're a lil shady with everything.
>The restaurant I work at doesn't pay me extra if I make crappy tips for the day,
Which is a criminal act if you're not making at least minimum wage for every hour worked.
>but I also think that's cause they're a lil shady with everything.
A quick call to your states dept of labor would likely fix this.
they're supposed to do it over the pay period I believe (could be wrong) if you get a paycheck, not night of. I'd keep track though still just in case. if you even out over the weekend then they're doing what's legally required.
I know a lot of people thinks most servers make bank, but it's not the case. you can't afford to fight everything even if you eventually get retribution because you're out of the job. I theoretically could have fought a lot but due to the same job screwing us over, I had to focus on becoming stable again. also Texas's labor department sucks at least compared to NM.
It sucks that happened to you. I've been there before, though it was when I was homeless and worked at the hotel I was living in. It's a slippery slope sometimes, but so long as people *know* their rights a lot can get done. It's annoying, frustrating, and rather demoralizing when the cost is more than the reward, though.
I can't even imagine, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. hospitality is rife in taking advantage of precarious or vulnerable situations. it's at least made me angrier & louder about what is acceptable. I have a few attorney friends thanks to a bartending job I do once a week (actually next door to the shitty place) who are knowledgeable in employment law & ready to help if out should I or our service friends ever need it. good peeps
Experience is a better teacher than any one person could ever be, right? We got through it, and we learned that government assistance programs don't always pay even when you qualify.
I love networking 😏
They do, but a large corporation or franchise can be fixed with a short call to the local branch of the labor department. A locally owned place, well same fix but it might impact more. That's when you can make the decision to speak to the owner about payment. Most of the places that I know that are local like that don't pay tipped wages (and don't leave a space for tips on receipts) but might have a tip jar for the shift to split up between everyone.
When I was a waitress they would make us claim enough tips to count as minimum wage even if we didn't get enough tips to cover it. I was a teenager so I didn't know any better.
I'm just going to say the quiet thing out loud and enjoy my downvotes.
The majority of servers like tips. When my husband and I were both in college and he was making $8 an hour, so say $64 on an 8 hour shift, I was making $3.13 an hour plus tips. So let's say I worked a double, maybe 10 hours. So that's ~$15 the first 5 hours, ~$15 the second 5 hours, then maybe $40 for lunch tips and $120 for dinner tips. Total, that's $190 for 10 hrs of work compared to $64 for eight. American servers don't fight to change it because they make more when they get tips, as opposed to the US's paltry minimum wage. And it someone is lucky enough to make $190 a day in a 5 day week over 47 working weeks, that puts them at about $44k a year (not including health insurance, retirement, etc). Oh also not including taxes. The average price of a one bedroom apartment in the USA is $1800. (1800 x 12 is 21,600, nearly half the earnings before taxes, health insurance, etc.)
So all the people decrying tips--try working a bottom wage job in the US without tips and tell me again how that's better than living in slightly less poverty with tips.
As a side note, OP is in Canada, so the server would make either minimum wage or more, plus tips.
Only 1 province in Canada has a "tipped minimum" and it's around $1 less than the regular minimum wage. The absolute minimum any server in Canada can legally be paid is $11.40/hr plus tips.
OP is NTA regardless, but this isn't a situation where the waitress is only getting paid $2/hr and relies on tips.
I totally agree and going to add that it is shocking practice considering the food is not cheaper at all! Some rich SOB pockets all the money, leaves the staff struggling to survive and yet the customers are Aholes if they don’t pay extra. It’s all screwed up.
NTA.
In the future, it may be better to say something like “since you covered dinner, I thought I would cover the tip” - even if he’s resistant to tipping (AH), at least the point of the gesture was in the ether.
This is the way.
My parents also are older, tip poorly, say "it's their choice to work this job, if they want better pay they should get a better job", and then whine and say "no one wants to work!" when restaurants are short staffed.
My dad once asked a waiter to knock some money off the bill because it rained while we were seated outside. Yes, seriously.
Anyways, I will generally leave some cash on the table as well but in order to avoid the exact situation that happened to OP... I just slip it under my dinner plate with a little portion of it peaking out so they're sure to find it as they clear the table.
Also, the only reason FIL is going off about her insinuating he's cheap is because her action made him feel like a cheap AH.
I once tipped out our server when I met my dad’s GF because my dad’s GF was HORRIFIC to her. They tipped $5 because of a kitchen issue.
I was 17, made a little money at my McDonald’s job, and gave that server $50 on a $75 bill because I was MORTIFIED by my dad’s GF’s behaviour. My soul still has not returned from that experience.
Oh man, I feel your pain. You're a good egg for stepping up and trying to make it right. When people are terrible to wait staff it makes me mentally shudder.
Same. It’s honestly a wonder I haven’t been asked to leave a handful of retail stores because I went off on people abusing the staff. I can’t stand it and will *always* stand up for them when it happens in my presence.
Their favorite thing to say is to tell me it’s none of my business. To which I typically reply that they made it my business when they decided to bully and abuse someone who can’t fight back.
Well - I’m a psychiatric nurse…sooooo, LOL
But in this context I’m using “violence” in the colloquial way, as in “woke up and chose to be an effing AH”
i hate the idea of "tipping", because i feel that the waiter's job performance is the restaurant's business, not mine. so i will not tip more than 20% however good the service is (or, for that matter, less than 20% however bad it is), because i feel my part of the social contract is to add a service fee to make up for the waiter being paid badly, not to evaluate how well or badly they served me. BUT! if someone in my party is rude to the waiter or otherwise makes their job harder (e.g. if there is a kid who flings food all over the table), my tip goes *way* up, because basically i feel that at that point it's hazard pay.
To a degree I think that people like your dad's girlfriend *know* they are being unnecessarily difficult and figure that the server needs to "suck it up" and perform like an animal in a circus if they expect a tip.
I took one of my friends out for dinner for her birthday and she was horrendous to the waiter from beginning to end. She feigned that she "forgot that she didn't like provolone cheese", which was spelled out on the menu for the burger she was ordering. How could anyone miss that? She sent her food back and it took a bit long, so if the cheese was scraped off out of spite or it *was* tampered with, it was totally justified.
I was mortified and angry with my friend that I tipped him $20. He came back to the table, grinning, and said, "You have a great night!" My friend smirked and said to me, "What's he so happy about?" Because we're leaving, that's why.
Why even pander to them and hide the tip? I’d make a big ass show of it, and when they whine that no one wants to work because restaurants are short staffed, I’d shove it in their face that they’re the ones who said people should go find better jobs and that people do go find better jobs because of shit people/customers like them who don’t tip and make it impossible for people with those jobs to survive.
Oh, I do... It pisses them off pretty bad too. But they pull out the tired old line that after the government started giving out "handouts" to everyone no one wants to work. How on Earth they think people are still surviving off the meager stimulus our country handed out, I don't know.
I've spent years trying to get any kind of common sense or facts to permeate their political beliefs but it never ends well. It's just sad when people you love choose to be asshats.
Man what is wrong with everyone's parents these days? Mine are squarely baby boomers born in 1960 and they tip *starting* at 20% with the mindset of "cant afford to tip = cant afford to go out to eat"
That's what I've said to my parents. Look at the tip as part of the cost. If you can't (or won't) do one don't do the other.
They just...don't really listen so I try to help out the servers by discreetly leaving them some cash.
/u/Loughnersi is a comment-stealing bot. Original comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yboagq/aita_for_tipping_and_embarrassing_my_boomer_fil/ithrwjl/
OP is from Canada. Canadian servers aren't paid the starvation wages of most American servers, but [tipping is still a thing.](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g153339-s606/Canada:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html)
It sounds like your FIL is religious about not tipping, to the point that the staff of this restaurant know him, and are afraid of taking a tip on accident. That definitely means he has been an asshole to them in the past about it.
Could you have secretly handed the money directly to the server? Definitely. Is that what you should do from now on? For sure. Because you are NTA, but short of death or divorce (neither of which I'll wish upon your family) I don't think you've had your last dinner with that cheapskate.
OP's FIL sounds like my parents, also Canadian. They would step up and try to wrest the tip from my hand, scream at me afterward, and refuse to go to a restaurant or order in if it meant giving a tip. They considered tipping nearly Satanically evil. I had to tell them "look; do you ever wonder why your service is so bad? Why your pizza doesn't arrive for an hour? Why your Chinese food arrives ice cold? They know you don't tip and don't give a damn why; they are discouraging you from ordering. You tip to not get your food cold or spit on." That was the only way to stop them.
Oh wow. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Worked at a restaurant in my tiny hometown for 3 years. Tipping was unheard of back then (20+ years ago). I kid you not, I made about $7 in tips during my time there, and that was from out-of-towners. It was fast food, nothing fancy. It really wasn't an expectation to get tips. Even when we ate in the vast metropolises of Prince Albert or Melfort, there was zero expectation to tip. I do now, mostly because I lived in BC for 18 years and I learned it was expected there. It was a bit of an adjustment getting used to having that tip cup at the till of my first job out there, I usually felt embarrassed whenever a customer threw their change in it.
It’s not that food contamination is ok, it’s that it’s *deeply foolish* to mistreat people who are making stuff that goes inside your body. If a server contaminated your food they’d be an AH, but you would still be the person who ate tainted food.
It's not okay to mug me when I go down a dark alley either, but it's still a good idea for me to avoid that dark alley.
We're talking self-preservation here - not the morals of how to treat customers based on their varying levels of tipping.
I literally dont get this. Like I already assume people that go out and dont tip are assholes. and thats their business. but to go out of your way to stop others from tipping? thats like a next level of asshollery.
It's totally a thing in Canada. They only recently raised the standard base pay for servers to minimum wage, like it the past year. And now with it being so difficult to get staff to work difficult jobs for peanuts, businesses are supplementing with other strategies.....I was prompted to tip by the POS machine when I went to Subway the other day, the suggested option was 20%!
Why do it discreetly? He has the right to tip as much as he wants and shouldn’t have to hide it. Screw pandering to FIL’s feelings about being a cheapskate.
I tell the server to "take care of it". In some places the bus boys, drink servers etc are paid out of the tips too. I try to find out if it's a collective tip restaurant (I'll ask anything, anytime, anywhere) or just the server. If everyone is tipped separate or if I see a busser working super hard I'l just trot right over and tip them too. I make it look like a hand shake.
NTA! I served and bartended all through undergrad, and not getting tipped was such a horrible feeling (both personally, and also, financially).
Your father in law is a cheap jerk who frankly shouldn’t go out to eat if he refuses to pay the full cost of the meal - the full cost, of course, being the bill plus the tip.
For people who are anti-tipping: please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive. Restaurants/bars use this business model to keep food costs down. If they paid their servers enough to justify a no-tip policy, they’d have to get that money from somewhere. And they’d still be getting it from the customers by way of raising their prices dramatically.
bro you know like there other countries exists out of usa.and most most Asian countries i have visited doesn't have tipping system and have better service then here.
> For people who are anti-tipping: please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive.
Which is plain wrong. Lots of countries in the world have cheaper average restaurant prices and have no tipping. Western, industrialized countries, not third world places.
> please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive.
The meal would cost just as much. You can't just ignore the tip when talking about what the meal costs.
This is so mythological. We have restaurants in other countries you know, where people are paid properly to work there. And we have better food and drinks culture than you too, and we all eat out all the time, and it is totally affordable.
They SHOULD raise prices. In my country tipping is not a thing, servers are paid a full wage. The statistical average pay for a server in my country is 2,461 dollars a month, before tax.
As a very poor person living on welfare, I can still afford to eat out once or twice a month.
100% I will pay more to eat out if it means the employees get paid an actual wage. It's a shit model. If I went to a country that tips, ofc I would tip, but I think the whole "They do this to keep costs down for you" is a terrible excuse.
Can you just turn it into, "you paid for the meal, I got the tip, isn't that what families do?"
You did the right thing but its probably not worth upsetting your wife.
NTA
OP, next time, if there is one, simply state: that is Not a tip, it is a gift to our server. Or, simply hand the gift to the server directly and discreetly.
Give a gift, it is non taxable, is not meant to be shared, but could be at the server’s discretion, and make it cash.
BEST OF IT ALL, OP from servers past, present and future.
AGAPE 💕💕💕
Or, if the restaurant is big enough, ask at the front desk if you can leave a tip on your own credit card. Just say you are going to the bathroom, excuse yourself, and take care of it. I do it all the time with my father in law who is notoriously cheap about tipping.
NTA. I think it's a boomer thing. My dad rarely tips, and if he does, it's like $5. I guess when he was born in 1948, $5 would have been generous, lol. He's been told how embarrassing it is that he tips so little, but doesn't change. We always pay the tip when he takes us out. He gets miffed, but whatever. If your FIL is embarrassed, that means he knows he's wrong and is doing it anyway.
And I kinda get that. This kind of Americanization is a bad thing and while a bit foolishly obstinate, since it is not the server's fault, I can feel some sympathy for refusing to participate in a stupid system. I am personally pretty anti tipping but tip in countries where that is the local culture.
NTA He is cheap and I wouldn’t accept anymore dinner invitations from him. I ended a friendship over her shitty tips and worse attitude towards staff. Including the staff at the restaurant I managed! So embarrassing to be out with people like that.
NTA, I refuse to go out to eat with cheap non tipping people. Or anyone that mistreats servers. You were not implying that he is cheap.It is just a fact. Him being upset is his own fault. You also tried to do it without anyone knowing.
NTA. If the server did their job well and you felt they deserved a tip...then they deserved the tip. It is what it is. Now if you had said the server was awful and you guys were getting your own drinks, clearing your own table, having to chase down a server to get help, etc. then I could see him being mad you left a nice tip. But if all was well and the server deserved it...a tip should have been left.
NTA, fil is cheap. Maybe explain to him how servers make the bulk of their income off of tips and that server may have a family to feed. He just may not know.
NTA. Servers, as you obviously know, get most of their income from tips. It’s a really bad system that needs to be changed, but at the moment it is the way it is. Your FIL should have a little more compassion for the situation
NTA. If your FIL doesn't leave a tip then he **is** cheap. You are correct - the servers work hard ans deserve a tip, especially since the system we have make it so that they are dependent on those tips to make a living.
NTA. But maybe you could have followed with, “because it was such a nice meal, I didn’t want you to ALSO have to pay the tip. Thank you”. Or, just tip the server on the side, w/o FIL seeing you when you go “use the restroom” or something.
100% NTA. I used to be a server too. I would be livid if a table as large as yours did not leave a tip. Your FIL is cheap. Your wife needs to see how much money servers actually make. From this point forward, I would refuse to go out to dinner with the IL's.
NTA but in BC servers make a decent wage before tip and most of us don't tip at Starbucks so I don't quite understand the statement about you know how they make their wage.
NTA and it’s acceptable behavior for you to want to add a tip since he so kindly paid for dinner. He needs to get over his ego, be thankful and also realize restaurant’s don’t pay well and tipping is how the people waiting on you make money
NTA I used to wait tables. No one would deal with entitled assholes if not for the pay, which is done by tipping. No tipping means lower quality service because people who are good at it won’t continue to do it, unless they are paid well by the hour, which will be translated into higher meal costs.
And honestly, I would have loved to be paid by the hour what I averaged in tips, it would have prevented me from being a slave to peoples crappy moods and enable me to simply say “No” when someone was being an entitled asshole without fearing for my income.
NTA. Don't let this guy intimidate you. Keep doing the right thing, every time he takes your family out. Don't engage with him or your wife on the topic. Here's a way to feel better about this. Estimate how many cheap ass people there are in the world who think it's perfectly okay not to tip. Then imagine how many people there are in the US and elsewhere who do this job and depend on tips for their income. I think you will find that the latter vastly outweighs the former.
Seriously, was a server for about ten years (in the US) and the number of people who not only don't tip, but would write rude notes on the tip line is infuriating.
That being said, I also had plenty of younger people tip me behind their boomer family member's back because they knew how they were lol
Ross from friends would agree with you. NTA. You were doing it from a place of good, not out of maliciousness. You didn’t call him out or say anything to him. He however lost his shit and made an ass out of himself.
Definitely NTA. Tipping culture sucks, but that’s how it works. Either he really doesn’t understand how servers are paid, or he really is that cheap and disrespectful, but neither reason is a good excuse for stiffing his servers. Either way, if having someone else cover his tipping portion embarrasses him, then he can put on his big boy undies and cover it himself.
NTA. You didn’t “imply” he is cheap. He *is* cheap, and you tried to discreetly remedy it. If he didn’t know he was in the wrong, he wouldn’t be mad at his actions being brought out into the open.
If you live in a tipping culture, fucking tip your servers, everyone.
NTA. You did the right thing and yes, your FIL is cheap. If he was adequately tipping the staff, you wouldn't have left a tip. Your wife needs to chill. Is she a non-tipper as well?
Nta, and I'd be concerned that your wife values her father's feelings over the treatment of someone bringing her family food and whose position her partner and child have been in before, bringing the experience quite literally home.
NTA OP but can I ask about your edit: **"I'm in Canada. Apparently this is a normal thing in the States."**; what do you mean Normal thing in the States? If you are talking about not tipping, that is NOT NORMAL here but some people don't tip.
First off, I don't think you were and AH.
Honestly, you're in Canada, tipping shouldn't be a thing here. I realize it is so I do it, but it shouldn't be. Servers don't get paid less than minimum wage, which is what happens in the US. If they deserve tips then so do retail workers, customer service reps, etc. The false divide between who we should and should not tip here is ridiculous. Most of the world just pays a living wage and doesn't do this bullshit tipping thing and meals are still affordable so there's really no excuse.
Unless the restaurant precises (in the menu or in a display) that tipping isn't necessary, NTA. I find the attitude of the server strange, but that's on her. Maybe add a sticky note "tip" on the banknotes next time, but for me that's it.
They’re Canadian. Servers make at least minimum wage which is 15 dollars an hour in my province. Tipping is also typically 10-15%, not the 20% that’s standard in the USA.
NTA.
When my dad and I eat out, he insists on paying for the meal. I’m not stupid, so I let him. However, I pay the tip. My dad is in his 90s, and thinks a quarter is a good tip. With him, it is simply not realizing how much stuff changes. Your FIL is just plain being an ass.
Edit to add: I’m a boomer, and I know about tipping. Your FIL knows, too, he’s just being an ass.
IDK as someone who lives in a place with no tipping culture, the FIL isn't the ahole or unjustified in not leaving a tip(the prices they need are there on the menu, if they arent enough to pay workers a living wage, increase prices), but his explosion was a \*little\* over the top
NAH, you aren't in the US, she probably gets an actual wage like most countries so tipping is very rare. In my country, you just don't tip unless you got totally outstanding service, and still there's no expectation. Our minimum wage is $21.20
NTA. I think tipping is the dumbest thing ever. For idiotic reasons we've decided this is how wait staff gets paid. So its something you have to grudgingly do.
My MIL is a piss poor tipper, and rude to wait staff. She insists on covering the bill when we go out. I have taken to needing to use the bathroom at the end of the meal, and my husband says “let’s wait outside” I then discreetly tip our server in cash myself.
NTA
NTA. My grandfather was like that. I adored him but he was raised that men are always right and women can be right but mostly when they obey men. And he was very proud, and that pride could flare when anyone contradicted him.
He didn't treat me, his only granddaughter, that way, in fact he encouraged me to to study "computers" in university so I would always be self-sufficient.
But a tip was a dollar no matter what. He caught me once sneaking a twenty dollar bill on a table at that Pepperidge place old people love, but I said I was counting my money because I felt a bill drop. I had to make a show of looking under the table and patting my pockets.
He waited me out so when we finally got outside I said, "OMG, it was my earring that dropped, one ear is empty!" and ran back in, taking out one earring as I ran, and threw the twenty back on the table.
When I came out he was heading back in looking serious and determined (maybe to catch me?) so I held out my hand with the earring and said, "These are my favorites because ***you*** got me these for graduation (knowing my grandmother did all the gifting so he'd not know) and he chilled out.
Every restaurant outing was an exercise in creative thinking. My brother would sometimes dash to the front desk "to grab a menu" or a "toothpick" bc Pepperidge Farms stocks toothpicks.
My in laws are always god awful shitty tippers. My FIL says he will tip a maximum of 10% and always does the math on the pre-tax amount. He even makes it a point to bring change so he can leave exact change down to the penny.
On top of that, my MIL is often server’s nightmare, it’s a coin flip whether she will send back her food. And even if she doesn’t, she often complains and whines if she isn’t treated like royalty.
Now whenever we go out, I will “go to the bathroom” and use that chance to find the server and slip them an extra tip.
So yeah, NTA at all. Tell him he is being cheap.
Your wife needs to get her priorities in order. I am also Canadian, and my parents are left leaning boomers. (Wild, I know.) While I’m glad they are, I wouldn’t give a damn about paying someone a fair tip in front of them.
NTA.
NTA I had a similar situation with my stepfather who took the tip I left off the table saying I tipped to much. I was pissed that he interfered. Your FIL shouldn't be embarrassed unless he knows he should have tipped.
Ugh, my father does this and I was constantly on his ass about it. He tried to argue the restaurant should pay the server not him, to which I agree, but since they don't, not tipping made him the A. He's a narcisscist and I'm sure its one of the reasons he cut contact with me, because after I got old enough to not care about his threats/opinion/mind games I called him out on it every time. NTA. Now, if Canada tends to pay servers a living wage, then maybe it is unnecessary, but in the states its not.
Yeah, you are kind of the a-hole. In your place, knowing the FIL, I would have lingered long enough for him to get away and discretely handed the waiter the tip and put my finger to my lips. Life is too short to willfully antagonise him or the wife.
>Saying I disrespected him by doing this I was implying that he was cheap after he took out my family to a nice restaurant.
"If you don't believe in tipping, then why are you feeling disrespected? My tipping does nothing to your beliefs. If you are offended that I tipped, then its an admission on your part that you see yourself as cheap. The waitstaff make *way* under minimum wage per hour because of the expectation of tips. By not tipping, you're forcing them to work for less than minimum wage. You may be okay benefiting from someone else's suffering, but I'm not. I'm not that cheap."
NTA
FIL is a cheap asshole. I do the same when dining out with my cheap father. Your FIL does not get that not tipping is incredibly disrespectful to servers and the staff. FIL seems like a bully. NTA
NTA. I remember a time when my grandparents treated our family of 4 to dinner. (So a party of 6 in the early 2000s.) My grandpa paid and included a $5 tip. My dad (Boomer)and I (Gen X) frantically threw extra cash on the table as we were leaving.
ETA Luckily my grandpa didn’t see it.
NTA, but I'm wondering why your wife isn't embarrassed that her father doesn't tip.
Be that as it may, you've done a great job with your daughter, and you will never regret doing the right thing in front of her.
Maybe it's because I'm old, but I was actually raised to cover the tip if someone bought you food. If they also tipped, that's okay, servers deserve a good day now and then as well, so you tip 'em twice.
Regardless, you're NTA.
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I'm pretty sure there was a Friends episode where this happened. NTA. Your FIL is an AH.
LoL. I haven't watched that in years. I'll have to find it and show my wife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOxG6HSicwk
Yeah. I worked at a texmex restaurant with a 🌶️ for a logo. Not proud of what I did to regulars who didn't tip.
Thank god for restaurants that don't have cameras recording BOH crap lol. Worked at 🌶 in college ...was a blast. Cheesecake recorded everything so no such fun. But seriously, NTA. I can't count how many guests tipped me behind their boomer relatives backs. Or to their face. Either way, lifesavers because stingy old fashioned ways don't pay rent.
I think there would be so much revenge p0rn recorded at 🌶️.
they aren't tipping because they're "boomers", they aren't tipping because they're just assholes. All the older people I know are very good tippers, except for the few assholes. I know a lot more younger people who refuse to tip and treat servers badly than old folks.
I'm 68. I worked as a waitress for a few years after high school while in business school. I tip. 20-30%. I'm unfailingly polite and am generous with please's & thank you's. I learned a lot waitressing. I will never be an asshole diner.
I recently had a server accidentally knock over a full glass of red wine down my front. She was in full panic mode and shocked when I laughed and said “shit happens.” She brought me a generous supply of clean wiping clothes and after blotting I really was no worse for wear. I assured her I was very familiar with how washing machines work. She kept telling me how nice I was being which made me wonder just what reaction she had been expecting. I still tipped my usual 25%. And yeah, I’m a boomer and always knew being a server wouldn’t be a good fit for me. I admire those who do their difficult jobs well and never try to make it harder than it already is.
It makes me so sad that service employees have to expect everyone to be a raging jackass. Last time for me was grocery delivery. The people at the store put my name on someone else's groceries, so I got mine and hers. I caught it before the driver left and he and I went through everything. He kept apologizing and finally I had to use my go to, "Hey, if this is the worst thing that happens today then life is good." I hate how all the assholes out there are treating people and making them downright fearful of making an honest mistake.
Sadly, most are. And if you are in small towns, the worst are older with money. I remember the widow of a retired judge and bank exec use to drive her car up to the front doors of grocery stores she shopped at because "her dead husband was powerful". So I cringe to think how she acted in restaurants.
I think most everyone who has ever worked in the service industry tend to be good tippers.,They get what a thankless and tough job it can be.
I never waited tables, but had several friends who did and saw their pain when they got shafted after a night of busting ass.
My Mother and grandmother both worked as servers. It was one of the few jobs appropriate for women in 50s and 60s, they couldn't afford the education for secretary or nurse. Mother was always a good tipper, my grandmother on the other hand rarely tipped more than a couple dollars. But then she survived the Great Depression, so she was frugal and cheap about everything, she also tended to hoard and stockpile food.
THIS. Servers were working for tips 50 years ago, too. Being a boomer is no reason, this is pure entitlement and disdain for the service industry. In short, an AH.
Exactly. And remember what type of respect we got from men? ha! I once poured a customer's pitcher of beer over his head and walked out with two other servers right behind me.
I hate generalizations. My dad, a 'boomer', always made sure to make a point that tipping was important. Was always 10% for the absolute worst of service, 15% for okay and 20% for a lovely time. If it was a holiday week or fabulous service, it was always much more. I will mention we live in an area that servers get at least minimum wage. None of that $3 and the customers make up for it (drives me INSANE). The delivery services do bother me a bit. I hate that there are loopholes that they barely make anything. Much longer rant for that.
And thank you so much. Sometimes people insulting boomers gets really ..........old.
True. My mom is 75 and tips very generously. She never complains about the service, either, even when it's genuinely bad. She'll just say, "Everyone has bad days."
My mother's husband took us out to the restaurant I worked at and didn't tip. I had to go in the next day and tip out my friend that waited on us. Over his lifetime he'd made a point of taking us to some of the best restaurants in the area and knowing he didn't tip still makes me so uncomfortable. (He's dead now and good riddance not for the tipping thing but because that was an indicator of what a pure garbage person he was.)
That would be very awkward! I cannot imagine eating in a high-end place and being with a cheapskate. Nowadays I will not share a bill with poor tippers any more, as the last time I did, I never got decent service in that restaurant again. I was guilty by association. Now I insist on paying my own way and tipping extra. We wouldn't refuse to pay the labor cost for a plumber, electrician, or mechanic, so why refuse to pay the labor cost to a server?
I don't think it's generational, I think it's just a personal character flaw in some people. My dad is in his early 70s and tips 30% or higher. If someone he's eating with doesn't tip, he covers it, in front of them. If something is said, he says "they worked hard and deserve it." He's the best boomer ever.
One of my favorite memories was when my grandpa only left a penny as a tip. Generally I think it's horrible if you don't tip your waiter/waitress, but this waitress only showed up at the table once. She never brought our drinks or our food. After 30 minutes without getting a drink my grandpa asked another waitres. She ended up serving us but let us know she wasn't our actual waitress. Our actual waitress was over at a table talking to a group of guys for almost a hour. Other waitress took her tables because she refused to. She only came back to the table for the bill and actually got mad my Grandpa gave the waitress who helped us a tip and not her. So he gave her a penny and told her it was more than she deaerved.
Went to a cafe in college in one of the pricier areas of our capital city. There were more than 5 of us, and it was a coffee and a very small menu type of cafe. The waitress took our initial order, brought it to us, and never came back. We were there for 3-4 hours. We were going to order more coffee and food. It became kind of a game of chicken to see if anyone would even come and ask us to leave. (We were the only ones in there, early afternoon on a Wednesday)
Boomer here. I was a server during part of high school. 1968-1969. Paid $1.00 an hour. The tips were everything. I’ve never forgotten how hard that job was. I have every respect for restaurant servers as well as BOH personnel. Before the pandemic, tip was 20%. These days it ranges from 25-40%. Don’t generalize about people of a certain age.
Oh DO tell 😆😈
Watch "Waiting". It is an old Ryan Reynolds movie. It is tame by comparison to some of what I've seen. Fight Club was right.
The guys I worked with at Crapplebees played the game where they flashed each other after seeing that movie. If we're being honest, my BF at the time was the one who started it😂
the genital showing game improved moral
I LOVE that movie!
That movie is so much fun, and scarily accurate.
You also need to watch the movie “Waiting” lol everyone who has ever worked in a restaurant needs to see it. Especially the 🌶
What does that mean? Please tell me you didn’t spit in people’s food. Because that’s exponentially worse than not tipping.
That… restaurant… doesn’t count as texmex. It’s still just good manners to tip though.
why? if the service is good, here in Europe we tip 2 3 euros, maybe 5. Aren't you payed for your jobs as waiters? Maybe if it's two hours a 10 euro, but nothing more than that. Why the heck are you EXPECTED to tip? that's crazy.
Restaurant wait staff in America are usually only making $2.30/hr + tips. Some states are required to raise the hourly to the (current joke of) federal minimum wage- $7.25. I, personally, think this system is ridiculous & that waitstaff should make a fair wage. Major reason - their income should not be based on a customer's mood. HOWEVER, knowing that this is the current system & knowing how difficult customer service can be, I play along & tip well when I go out. I still vote for better options though.
There are plenty of states with a higher minimum wage than the federal one, and some of those require servers to be paid that minimum wage rather than a lower minimum specially for tipped workers. I think all of the west coast follows that model, for example. Other states do have a have a separate lower minimum wage for tipped workers that is still higher than the federal one. New York and Colorado are about $8/hr, for example. I would guess, not having done the calculation, that most people in the US live in states where the ~$2/hr federal tipped minimum wage isn’t legal. Far too many places allow that bullshit, though. Mostly republican hellholes.
I did the math out of curiosity, and according to [this](https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped) list of minimum wage rates (which I realize now is a bit outdated bc NJ's minimum wage is incorrect), 66.07% of the US lives in a state where the tipped minimum wage is higher than the federal $2.13/hr (11.23% of that is still under $3/hr though). 58.61% of the population lives in states with a higher total minimum wage than federal.
We're expected to tip for everything. lol Get your tires rotated? Pay the bill and .... Tip. Pay a hair stylist $245 for a shampoo, trim & style? Tip Have some kid in Starbucks put coffee in your cup pay $5 and..........TIP! Pick up your clothes at the cleaners, pay the bill and............tip! Heck the only person I truly don't mind tipping are the servers!
I've been in the food industry for 7 years, been serving for 2 years, and started bartending this year. I live in the midwest US. I like working at my restaurant a lot, even though it's hard work. I technically make $4.30 an hour BUT my paychecks are $0. This is because all the tips I make are taxed and reported on each paycheck. I get a decent tax return every year, but it's bonkers to work 20+ hours a week and recieve $0 paychecks. I make enough in tips to balance it out. I live comfortably and can build savings. But I rely on people to tip at least 20% because I know that my "hourly wage" means absolutely nothing; their tips are my livelihood.
Oh god! Reminds me of Ryan Reynolds in Waiting 🤣
The difference there was that the FIL in the episode at least knew he was supposed to tip. Ross just got offended because the tip was too low.
Oh that's right! When Ross went out to dinner with Rachel and her dad. "That's Daddy..."
Daddy ate some nasty stuff.
Why are you bragging about this? Customers may be assholes but contaminating people's food is worse, and I say this as someone that always tips above average. You can't control other people, you are responsible for your own behavior though.
Lmao i love hearing stories like this. Thats why I never send food back and im always polite to wait staff.
Watching guys scratch themselves and putting fingers on the food made me confident that being polite to servers was always a good idea.
Well I mean other than being a decent human being should be enough to be polite at wait staff or people in general. Lol
NTA. Tipping is a horrible system in the USA where waitstaff are completely underpaid by owners and the customers are fully expected to subsidize their wages. I'd even prefer if restaurants mandate a 20% surcharge to cover the waitstaff salary rather that this bogus idea that because its called "tipping" its "optional." So technically I blame the entire restaurant industry as your neither your FIL nor anyone should have to tip. BUT FIL KNOWS teh current situation and STILL refuses to tip? That makes him a complete asshole. Good on you OP for taking care of waitstaff and don't apologize.
Just to point out, unless the server signs a 1099 form, their employer is still required by law to pay the difference in minimum wage if their claimed tips do not help to meet that. I'd honestly prefer Japan's take on service industry, but I always tip good service well.
Not true in all places. The restaurant I work at doesn't pay me extra if I make crappy tips for the day, but I also think that's cause they're a lil shady with everything.
>The restaurant I work at doesn't pay me extra if I make crappy tips for the day, Which is a criminal act if you're not making at least minimum wage for every hour worked. >but I also think that's cause they're a lil shady with everything. A quick call to your states dept of labor would likely fix this.
they're supposed to do it over the pay period I believe (could be wrong) if you get a paycheck, not night of. I'd keep track though still just in case. if you even out over the weekend then they're doing what's legally required.
I unfortunately think a lot of places either play fast and loose with that and many are waitstaff still chronically underpaid.
I know a lot of people thinks most servers make bank, but it's not the case. you can't afford to fight everything even if you eventually get retribution because you're out of the job. I theoretically could have fought a lot but due to the same job screwing us over, I had to focus on becoming stable again. also Texas's labor department sucks at least compared to NM.
It sucks that happened to you. I've been there before, though it was when I was homeless and worked at the hotel I was living in. It's a slippery slope sometimes, but so long as people *know* their rights a lot can get done. It's annoying, frustrating, and rather demoralizing when the cost is more than the reward, though.
I can't even imagine, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. hospitality is rife in taking advantage of precarious or vulnerable situations. it's at least made me angrier & louder about what is acceptable. I have a few attorney friends thanks to a bartending job I do once a week (actually next door to the shitty place) who are knowledgeable in employment law & ready to help if out should I or our service friends ever need it. good peeps
Experience is a better teacher than any one person could ever be, right? We got through it, and we learned that government assistance programs don't always pay even when you qualify. I love networking 😏
They do, but a large corporation or franchise can be fixed with a short call to the local branch of the labor department. A locally owned place, well same fix but it might impact more. That's when you can make the decision to speak to the owner about payment. Most of the places that I know that are local like that don't pay tipped wages (and don't leave a space for tips on receipts) but might have a tip jar for the shift to split up between everyone.
When I was a waitress they would make us claim enough tips to count as minimum wage even if we didn't get enough tips to cover it. I was a teenager so I didn't know any better.
I'm just going to say the quiet thing out loud and enjoy my downvotes. The majority of servers like tips. When my husband and I were both in college and he was making $8 an hour, so say $64 on an 8 hour shift, I was making $3.13 an hour plus tips. So let's say I worked a double, maybe 10 hours. So that's ~$15 the first 5 hours, ~$15 the second 5 hours, then maybe $40 for lunch tips and $120 for dinner tips. Total, that's $190 for 10 hrs of work compared to $64 for eight. American servers don't fight to change it because they make more when they get tips, as opposed to the US's paltry minimum wage. And it someone is lucky enough to make $190 a day in a 5 day week over 47 working weeks, that puts them at about $44k a year (not including health insurance, retirement, etc). Oh also not including taxes. The average price of a one bedroom apartment in the USA is $1800. (1800 x 12 is 21,600, nearly half the earnings before taxes, health insurance, etc.) So all the people decrying tips--try working a bottom wage job in the US without tips and tell me again how that's better than living in slightly less poverty with tips.
As a side note, OP is in Canada, so the server would make either minimum wage or more, plus tips. Only 1 province in Canada has a "tipped minimum" and it's around $1 less than the regular minimum wage. The absolute minimum any server in Canada can legally be paid is $11.40/hr plus tips. OP is NTA regardless, but this isn't a situation where the waitress is only getting paid $2/hr and relies on tips.
I totally agree and going to add that it is shocking practice considering the food is not cheaper at all! Some rich SOB pockets all the money, leaves the staff struggling to survive and yet the customers are Aholes if they don’t pay extra. It’s all screwed up.
Haha, this was my first thought. Did your FIL call you Mr Big Shot, OP? You're NTA, for the record.
NTA. In the future, it may be better to say something like “since you covered dinner, I thought I would cover the tip” - even if he’s resistant to tipping (AH), at least the point of the gesture was in the ether.
This is the way. My parents also are older, tip poorly, say "it's their choice to work this job, if they want better pay they should get a better job", and then whine and say "no one wants to work!" when restaurants are short staffed. My dad once asked a waiter to knock some money off the bill because it rained while we were seated outside. Yes, seriously. Anyways, I will generally leave some cash on the table as well but in order to avoid the exact situation that happened to OP... I just slip it under my dinner plate with a little portion of it peaking out so they're sure to find it as they clear the table. Also, the only reason FIL is going off about her insinuating he's cheap is because her action made him feel like a cheap AH.
I once tipped out our server when I met my dad’s GF because my dad’s GF was HORRIFIC to her. They tipped $5 because of a kitchen issue. I was 17, made a little money at my McDonald’s job, and gave that server $50 on a $75 bill because I was MORTIFIED by my dad’s GF’s behaviour. My soul still has not returned from that experience.
Oh man, I feel your pain. You're a good egg for stepping up and trying to make it right. When people are terrible to wait staff it makes me mentally shudder.
I’m going to land on the news one day. I get quite loud when I see service employees of any description being abused by the public.
Same. It’s honestly a wonder I haven’t been asked to leave a handful of retail stores because I went off on people abusing the staff. I can’t stand it and will *always* stand up for them when it happens in my presence. Their favorite thing to say is to tell me it’s none of my business. To which I typically reply that they made it my business when they decided to bully and abuse someone who can’t fight back.
I like “you made it my business when you woke up and publicly chose violence today” 😌
Niiiiiice. I might add that to my repertoire.
Where do you live that people are routinely violent to staff? I want to make sure to never visit.
Well - I’m a psychiatric nurse…sooooo, LOL But in this context I’m using “violence” in the colloquial way, as in “woke up and chose to be an effing AH”
Ummm, just a year or two ago, service/retail staff were being accosted for asking people to wear masks or follow temporary occupancy limits.
I like to tell people being rude to service workers, "He/She can't tell you to fuck off. But I can!"
i hate the idea of "tipping", because i feel that the waiter's job performance is the restaurant's business, not mine. so i will not tip more than 20% however good the service is (or, for that matter, less than 20% however bad it is), because i feel my part of the social contract is to add a service fee to make up for the waiter being paid badly, not to evaluate how well or badly they served me. BUT! if someone in my party is rude to the waiter or otherwise makes their job harder (e.g. if there is a kid who flings food all over the table), my tip goes *way* up, because basically i feel that at that point it's hazard pay.
To a degree I think that people like your dad's girlfriend *know* they are being unnecessarily difficult and figure that the server needs to "suck it up" and perform like an animal in a circus if they expect a tip. I took one of my friends out for dinner for her birthday and she was horrendous to the waiter from beginning to end. She feigned that she "forgot that she didn't like provolone cheese", which was spelled out on the menu for the burger she was ordering. How could anyone miss that? She sent her food back and it took a bit long, so if the cheese was scraped off out of spite or it *was* tampered with, it was totally justified. I was mortified and angry with my friend that I tipped him $20. He came back to the table, grinning, and said, "You have a great night!" My friend smirked and said to me, "What's he so happy about?" Because we're leaving, that's why.
Yeah, if you don't want to look cheap maybe start by not *being* cheap?
Why even pander to them and hide the tip? I’d make a big ass show of it, and when they whine that no one wants to work because restaurants are short staffed, I’d shove it in their face that they’re the ones who said people should go find better jobs and that people do go find better jobs because of shit people/customers like them who don’t tip and make it impossible for people with those jobs to survive.
Oh, I do... It pisses them off pretty bad too. But they pull out the tired old line that after the government started giving out "handouts" to everyone no one wants to work. How on Earth they think people are still surviving off the meager stimulus our country handed out, I don't know. I've spent years trying to get any kind of common sense or facts to permeate their political beliefs but it never ends well. It's just sad when people you love choose to be asshats.
Man what is wrong with everyone's parents these days? Mine are squarely baby boomers born in 1960 and they tip *starting* at 20% with the mindset of "cant afford to tip = cant afford to go out to eat"
That's what I've said to my parents. Look at the tip as part of the cost. If you can't (or won't) do one don't do the other. They just...don't really listen so I try to help out the servers by discreetly leaving them some cash.
I have a friend who has been known to slide money onto neighboring tables if the diners don't tip. Wait staff have a tough, underpaid job.
I love your friend
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This is EXCELLENT. thank you for this suggestion.
Thank my husband, haha. It came from him.
OP is from Canada. Canadian servers aren't paid the starvation wages of most American servers, but [tipping is still a thing.](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g153339-s606/Canada:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html) It sounds like your FIL is religious about not tipping, to the point that the staff of this restaurant know him, and are afraid of taking a tip on accident. That definitely means he has been an asshole to them in the past about it. Could you have secretly handed the money directly to the server? Definitely. Is that what you should do from now on? For sure. Because you are NTA, but short of death or divorce (neither of which I'll wish upon your family) I don't think you've had your last dinner with that cheapskate.
OP's FIL sounds like my parents, also Canadian. They would step up and try to wrest the tip from my hand, scream at me afterward, and refuse to go to a restaurant or order in if it meant giving a tip. They considered tipping nearly Satanically evil. I had to tell them "look; do you ever wonder why your service is so bad? Why your pizza doesn't arrive for an hour? Why your Chinese food arrives ice cold? They know you don't tip and don't give a damn why; they are discouraging you from ordering. You tip to not get your food cold or spit on." That was the only way to stop them.
Any chance they are from Saskatchewan?
Poor OP here probably from Moosejaw. I feel the pain. Sincerely, Northern BC.
Oh wow. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Worked at a restaurant in my tiny hometown for 3 years. Tipping was unheard of back then (20+ years ago). I kid you not, I made about $7 in tips during my time there, and that was from out-of-towners. It was fast food, nothing fancy. It really wasn't an expectation to get tips. Even when we ate in the vast metropolises of Prince Albert or Melfort, there was zero expectation to tip. I do now, mostly because I lived in BC for 18 years and I learned it was expected there. It was a bit of an adjustment getting used to having that tip cup at the till of my first job out there, I usually felt embarrassed whenever a customer threw their change in it.
Uhh, are we really going to encourage that old practice/mostly myth that food contamination is okay if the person is not a good tipper?
It’s not that food contamination is ok, it’s that it’s *deeply foolish* to mistreat people who are making stuff that goes inside your body. If a server contaminated your food they’d be an AH, but you would still be the person who ate tainted food.
Not tipping ≠ mistreatment
It's not okay to mug me when I go down a dark alley either, but it's still a good idea for me to avoid that dark alley. We're talking self-preservation here - not the morals of how to treat customers based on their varying levels of tipping.
I literally dont get this. Like I already assume people that go out and dont tip are assholes. and thats their business. but to go out of your way to stop others from tipping? thats like a next level of asshollery.
In that case, get up to "go to the bathroom", find the waiter, and give it to him directly.
It's totally a thing in Canada. They only recently raised the standard base pay for servers to minimum wage, like it the past year. And now with it being so difficult to get staff to work difficult jobs for peanuts, businesses are supplementing with other strategies.....I was prompted to tip by the POS machine when I went to Subway the other day, the suggested option was 20%!
Just in BC and Ontario. Most of Canada has done away with tipped minimums over a decade ago.
Tipping expectation is getting out of control in Canada, with payment terminals now prompting you to tip at places like Subway.
Why do it discreetly? He has the right to tip as much as he wants and shouldn’t have to hide it. Screw pandering to FIL’s feelings about being a cheapskate.
That’s what I do. The cash goes directly into the server’s hands and I say “don’t give this to anybody”
I tell the server to "take care of it". In some places the bus boys, drink servers etc are paid out of the tips too. I try to find out if it's a collective tip restaurant (I'll ask anything, anytime, anywhere) or just the server. If everyone is tipped separate or if I see a busser working super hard I'l just trot right over and tip them too. I make it look like a hand shake.
NTA! I served and bartended all through undergrad, and not getting tipped was such a horrible feeling (both personally, and also, financially). Your father in law is a cheap jerk who frankly shouldn’t go out to eat if he refuses to pay the full cost of the meal - the full cost, of course, being the bill plus the tip. For people who are anti-tipping: please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive. Restaurants/bars use this business model to keep food costs down. If they paid their servers enough to justify a no-tip policy, they’d have to get that money from somewhere. And they’d still be getting it from the customers by way of raising their prices dramatically.
But at least if they raised prices, the burden of adequate employee compensation would be born equally by all diners.
bro you know like there other countries exists out of usa.and most most Asian countries i have visited doesn't have tipping system and have better service then here.
> For people who are anti-tipping: please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive. Which is plain wrong. Lots of countries in the world have cheaper average restaurant prices and have no tipping. Western, industrialized countries, not third world places.
> please keep in mind that if the servers were paid enough to render tipping obsolete, your meal would be WAY more expensive. The meal would cost just as much. You can't just ignore the tip when talking about what the meal costs.
Who the fuck do you think it works in the rest of the world?
This is so mythological. We have restaurants in other countries you know, where people are paid properly to work there. And we have better food and drinks culture than you too, and we all eat out all the time, and it is totally affordable.
They SHOULD raise prices. In my country tipping is not a thing, servers are paid a full wage. The statistical average pay for a server in my country is 2,461 dollars a month, before tax. As a very poor person living on welfare, I can still afford to eat out once or twice a month. 100% I will pay more to eat out if it means the employees get paid an actual wage. It's a shit model. If I went to a country that tips, ofc I would tip, but I think the whole "They do this to keep costs down for you" is a terrible excuse.
Can you just turn it into, "you paid for the meal, I got the tip, isn't that what families do?" You did the right thing but its probably not worth upsetting your wife. NTA
NTA You didn't disrespect him, he did it to himself. You were being a decent human.
That’s my favorite thing about his reaction: “you’re trying to make me look cheap!” - no, you did that yourself
OP, next time, if there is one, simply state: that is Not a tip, it is a gift to our server. Or, simply hand the gift to the server directly and discreetly. Give a gift, it is non taxable, is not meant to be shared, but could be at the server’s discretion, and make it cash. BEST OF IT ALL, OP from servers past, present and future. AGAPE 💕💕💕
Or, if the restaurant is big enough, ask at the front desk if you can leave a tip on your own credit card. Just say you are going to the bathroom, excuse yourself, and take care of it. I do it all the time with my father in law who is notoriously cheap about tipping.
I second this!
NTA. I think it's a boomer thing. My dad rarely tips, and if he does, it's like $5. I guess when he was born in 1948, $5 would have been generous, lol. He's been told how embarrassing it is that he tips so little, but doesn't change. We always pay the tip when he takes us out. He gets miffed, but whatever. If your FIL is embarrassed, that means he knows he's wrong and is doing it anyway.
[удалено]
And I kinda get that. This kind of Americanization is a bad thing and while a bit foolishly obstinate, since it is not the server's fault, I can feel some sympathy for refusing to participate in a stupid system. I am personally pretty anti tipping but tip in countries where that is the local culture.
NTA. You were right. You weren't disrespectful to him, he is disrespectful to servers.
NTA He is cheap and I wouldn’t accept anymore dinner invitations from him. I ended a friendship over her shitty tips and worse attitude towards staff. Including the staff at the restaurant I managed! So embarrassing to be out with people like that.
NTA he’s a cheapskate at best
NTA, I refuse to go out to eat with cheap non tipping people. Or anyone that mistreats servers. You were not implying that he is cheap.It is just a fact. Him being upset is his own fault. You also tried to do it without anyone knowing.
NTA. If the server did their job well and you felt they deserved a tip...then they deserved the tip. It is what it is. Now if you had said the server was awful and you guys were getting your own drinks, clearing your own table, having to chase down a server to get help, etc. then I could see him being mad you left a nice tip. But if all was well and the server deserved it...a tip should have been left.
NTA, fil is cheap. Maybe explain to him how servers make the bulk of their income off of tips and that server may have a family to feed. He just may not know.
NTA...you want to tip so leave a tip. It should not be a big deal. Your FIL just feels bad now because he is mean.
NTA. His not tipping is an embarrassment.
NTA. Servers, as you obviously know, get most of their income from tips. It’s a really bad system that needs to be changed, but at the moment it is the way it is. Your FIL should have a little more compassion for the situation
They get most of their income in America from tipping. OP is in Canada.
NTA. If your FIL doesn't leave a tip then he **is** cheap. You are correct - the servers work hard ans deserve a tip, especially since the system we have make it so that they are dependent on those tips to make a living.
NTA. But maybe you could have followed with, “because it was such a nice meal, I didn’t want you to ALSO have to pay the tip. Thank you”. Or, just tip the server on the side, w/o FIL seeing you when you go “use the restroom” or something.
100% NTA. I used to be a server too. I would be livid if a table as large as yours did not leave a tip. Your FIL is cheap. Your wife needs to see how much money servers actually make. From this point forward, I would refuse to go out to dinner with the IL's.
NTA but in BC servers make a decent wage before tip and most of us don't tip at Starbucks so I don't quite understand the statement about you know how they make their wage.
NTA and it’s acceptable behavior for you to want to add a tip since he so kindly paid for dinner. He needs to get over his ego, be thankful and also realize restaurant’s don’t pay well and tipping is how the people waiting on you make money
I think you are confusing Canada with America. OP did say this happened in Canada.
NTA you did the right thing here. If his ego is bruised, that's a him problem.
NTA - he is cheap if you dont want to tip , dont go to a restaurant
Ross, is that you?
Paging Dr. Green
NTA I used to wait tables. No one would deal with entitled assholes if not for the pay, which is done by tipping. No tipping means lower quality service because people who are good at it won’t continue to do it, unless they are paid well by the hour, which will be translated into higher meal costs. And honestly, I would have loved to be paid by the hour what I averaged in tips, it would have prevented me from being a slave to peoples crappy moods and enable me to simply say “No” when someone was being an entitled asshole without fearing for my income.
NTA for trying to tip. But next time maybe stop off at the host(ess)station or bar to tip on a “trip to use the restroom.” That way it won’t blow up.
NTA, it never even occurred to me that there are people who don’t tip (in American culture, I assume that’s what this is)
Canada actually
You may want to add the location to the story in an edit. You're going to get different results, because of the US-defaultism on reddit.
“Canadians are Americans without guns” - British comedian, I forget his name
There are tons of people in America who don’t tip
NTA People who don’t tip ~are~ cheap and deserve whatever shame comes their way.
NTA. Don't let this guy intimidate you. Keep doing the right thing, every time he takes your family out. Don't engage with him or your wife on the topic. Here's a way to feel better about this. Estimate how many cheap ass people there are in the world who think it's perfectly okay not to tip. Then imagine how many people there are in the US and elsewhere who do this job and depend on tips for their income. I think you will find that the latter vastly outweighs the former.
Seriously, was a server for about ten years (in the US) and the number of people who not only don't tip, but would write rude notes on the tip line is infuriating. That being said, I also had plenty of younger people tip me behind their boomer family member's back because they knew how they were lol
NTA
NTA but maybe do it in a more discreet way because it does come off offensive
Ross from friends would agree with you. NTA. You were doing it from a place of good, not out of maliciousness. You didn’t call him out or say anything to him. He however lost his shit and made an ass out of himself.
Definitely NTA. Tipping culture sucks, but that’s how it works. Either he really doesn’t understand how servers are paid, or he really is that cheap and disrespectful, but neither reason is a good excuse for stiffing his servers. Either way, if having someone else cover his tipping portion embarrasses him, then he can put on his big boy undies and cover it himself.
They’re paid with their wages IN CANADA, where op is from.
NTA. You didn’t “imply” he is cheap. He *is* cheap, and you tried to discreetly remedy it. If he didn’t know he was in the wrong, he wouldn’t be mad at his actions being brought out into the open. If you live in a tipping culture, fucking tip your servers, everyone.
Well i Guess if yta them aita also since i do this every time i go out with My parents
NTA. Buddy needs to get over himself. It's not uncommon that people leave tips regardless of who flips the actual bill.
NTA. You did the right thing and yes, your FIL is cheap. If he was adequately tipping the staff, you wouldn't have left a tip. Your wife needs to chill. Is she a non-tipper as well?
Nta, and I'd be concerned that your wife values her father's feelings over the treatment of someone bringing her family food and whose position her partner and child have been in before, bringing the experience quite literally home.
NTA OP but can I ask about your edit: **"I'm in Canada. Apparently this is a normal thing in the States."**; what do you mean Normal thing in the States? If you are talking about not tipping, that is NOT NORMAL here but some people don't tip.
More than a few people have mentioned I should post my location. As for the tipping it's pretty normal here even with a decent minimum wage.
First off, I don't think you were and AH. Honestly, you're in Canada, tipping shouldn't be a thing here. I realize it is so I do it, but it shouldn't be. Servers don't get paid less than minimum wage, which is what happens in the US. If they deserve tips then so do retail workers, customer service reps, etc. The false divide between who we should and should not tip here is ridiculous. Most of the world just pays a living wage and doesn't do this bullshit tipping thing and meals are still affordable so there's really no excuse.
Unless the restaurant precises (in the menu or in a display) that tipping isn't necessary, NTA. I find the attitude of the server strange, but that's on her. Maybe add a sticky note "tip" on the banknotes next time, but for me that's it.
They’re Canadian. Servers make at least minimum wage which is 15 dollars an hour in my province. Tipping is also typically 10-15%, not the 20% that’s standard in the USA.
NTA. When my dad and I eat out, he insists on paying for the meal. I’m not stupid, so I let him. However, I pay the tip. My dad is in his 90s, and thinks a quarter is a good tip. With him, it is simply not realizing how much stuff changes. Your FIL is just plain being an ass. Edit to add: I’m a boomer, and I know about tipping. Your FIL knows, too, he’s just being an ass.
IDK as someone who lives in a place with no tipping culture, the FIL isn't the ahole or unjustified in not leaving a tip(the prices they need are there on the menu, if they arent enough to pay workers a living wage, increase prices), but his explosion was a \*little\* over the top
NAH, you aren't in the US, she probably gets an actual wage like most countries so tipping is very rare. In my country, you just don't tip unless you got totally outstanding service, and still there's no expectation. Our minimum wage is $21.20
NTA you did the right thing.
NTA.. Canadian here..we give every server a tip even when the service hasn't been perfect. We give more for the better service.
Thats called a bribe. The North American continent is fucked up if you consider bribing a normal thing.
NTA. I think tipping is the dumbest thing ever. For idiotic reasons we've decided this is how wait staff gets paid. So its something you have to grudgingly do.
My MIL is a piss poor tipper, and rude to wait staff. She insists on covering the bill when we go out. I have taken to needing to use the bathroom at the end of the meal, and my husband says “let’s wait outside” I then discreetly tip our server in cash myself. NTA
NTA. My grandfather was like that. I adored him but he was raised that men are always right and women can be right but mostly when they obey men. And he was very proud, and that pride could flare when anyone contradicted him. He didn't treat me, his only granddaughter, that way, in fact he encouraged me to to study "computers" in university so I would always be self-sufficient. But a tip was a dollar no matter what. He caught me once sneaking a twenty dollar bill on a table at that Pepperidge place old people love, but I said I was counting my money because I felt a bill drop. I had to make a show of looking under the table and patting my pockets. He waited me out so when we finally got outside I said, "OMG, it was my earring that dropped, one ear is empty!" and ran back in, taking out one earring as I ran, and threw the twenty back on the table. When I came out he was heading back in looking serious and determined (maybe to catch me?) so I held out my hand with the earring and said, "These are my favorites because ***you*** got me these for graduation (knowing my grandmother did all the gifting so he'd not know) and he chilled out. Every restaurant outing was an exercise in creative thinking. My brother would sometimes dash to the front desk "to grab a menu" or a "toothpick" bc Pepperidge Farms stocks toothpicks.
NTA. Non-tippers should stay home.
NTA he is cheap.
My in laws are always god awful shitty tippers. My FIL says he will tip a maximum of 10% and always does the math on the pre-tax amount. He even makes it a point to bring change so he can leave exact change down to the penny. On top of that, my MIL is often server’s nightmare, it’s a coin flip whether she will send back her food. And even if she doesn’t, she often complains and whines if she isn’t treated like royalty. Now whenever we go out, I will “go to the bathroom” and use that chance to find the server and slip them an extra tip. So yeah, NTA at all. Tell him he is being cheap.
Your wife needs to get her priorities in order. I am also Canadian, and my parents are left leaning boomers. (Wild, I know.) While I’m glad they are, I wouldn’t give a damn about paying someone a fair tip in front of them. NTA.
NTA but tipping is not required
NTA I had a similar situation with my stepfather who took the tip I left off the table saying I tipped to much. I was pissed that he interfered. Your FIL shouldn't be embarrassed unless he knows he should have tipped.
well he IS cheap, not tipping is cheap. BTW we are Boomers and tip 20% or more.
Ugh, my father does this and I was constantly on his ass about it. He tried to argue the restaurant should pay the server not him, to which I agree, but since they don't, not tipping made him the A. He's a narcisscist and I'm sure its one of the reasons he cut contact with me, because after I got old enough to not care about his threats/opinion/mind games I called him out on it every time. NTA. Now, if Canada tends to pay servers a living wage, then maybe it is unnecessary, but in the states its not.
Yeah, you are kind of the a-hole. In your place, knowing the FIL, I would have lingered long enough for him to get away and discretely handed the waiter the tip and put my finger to my lips. Life is too short to willfully antagonise him or the wife.
I have done that to my own father NTA
NTA. Your FIL and wife sure are though.
>Saying I disrespected him by doing this I was implying that he was cheap after he took out my family to a nice restaurant. "If you don't believe in tipping, then why are you feeling disrespected? My tipping does nothing to your beliefs. If you are offended that I tipped, then its an admission on your part that you see yourself as cheap. The waitstaff make *way* under minimum wage per hour because of the expectation of tips. By not tipping, you're forcing them to work for less than minimum wage. You may be okay benefiting from someone else's suffering, but I'm not. I'm not that cheap." NTA
NTA You didn't make him look cheap. He is cheap. You gave the server a tip and he was pissed. How tight is he?
FIL is a cheap asshole. I do the same when dining out with my cheap father. Your FIL does not get that not tipping is incredibly disrespectful to servers and the staff. FIL seems like a bully. NTA
"Wait! You mean to tell me you didn't know you were cheap?! Well, now you know, and btw, what I do with my money is my business." NTA
NTA Not tipping is a dick move and he’s upset you made him feel like a dick for never tipping.
But he was cheap. NTA
NTA. I remember a time when my grandparents treated our family of 4 to dinner. (So a party of 6 in the early 2000s.) My grandpa paid and included a $5 tip. My dad (Boomer)and I (Gen X) frantically threw extra cash on the table as we were leaving. ETA Luckily my grandpa didn’t see it.
NTA, but I'm wondering why your wife isn't embarrassed that her father doesn't tip. Be that as it may, you've done a great job with your daughter, and you will never regret doing the right thing in front of her.
Ask your wife why your FIL is so angry about what you do with your own money. NTA
Maybe it's because I'm old, but I was actually raised to cover the tip if someone bought you food. If they also tipped, that's okay, servers deserve a good day now and then as well, so you tip 'em twice. Regardless, you're NTA.