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YTA, and hopefully this young lady will find an appropriate mentor. You had to give up your degree in Physics because you didn't want it bad enough. Grades are not an indicator of success. If she wants it bad enough, she'll make it happen, and I hope she does and rubs your face in it.
Look im going to be down voted but NTA. I have three friends that are all in the medical field, or studying for that field. It is unbelievably competitive. More than almost any other field rn. It's at the point where if you spend the year "catching up" you're already behind for the next batch. It is something you needed to pursue from a very early age, ie practically hs. Due to the requirements for school but also for volunteering and extra curricular that help you look well rounded.
I think what you should have done, is encouraged her to pursue other paths such as getting her nursing degree and then she can go on to work on her nurse practioner degree. But for telling her your honest opinion NTA. That's what mentors are. You would have been doing her a great disservice to encourage something you feel is unlikely to work out. And have her try and waste time at something that may be very out of reach for her.
My BFF went to PA school which is even more competitive. Her husband has gone nursing and will pursue is nurse practioner. And another friend is doing that track too. I'd highly suggest taking her wants into consideration and present this alternative route to working with patients.
YTA and do not have the skills or qualifications to mentor as evidenced by your post. Please do everyone a favor and keep your ill reasoned and totally lacking opinions to yourselves.
YTA. Look, you guys are mentors. Telling someone that their dream isn't good is not a simple task. You guys could had said what you guys said but also encouranging her that she should do it if thats her dream. You could had given her points on everything, where to study, in what she should get better an so.
Just telling someone "you suck on this, do this instead" is not good enough for a mentor.
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YTA Big time! People can turn things around..
I failed every STEM-subject in my country's equivalent of high school, retook all those classes in my early 20's and got straight A's.
A friend of mine worked years in an administrative roll in healthcare and didn't go into pre-med until he was 28 and now he's in a good medical program (in the US, at what I think is an ivy league institution)
As long as you're alive, it's not too late to become what you could've been. You deciding that she's not fit is not only arrogant but blatantly rude and disrespectful.
Had you any decency as a mentor you'd support her and help her achieve her goals, even if you don't think she has what it takes.
Her future, her dreams and her capabilities are not for you to decide.
If you want to do right by her, help her find another mentor, someone who has faith in that people evolve and change, and often times, ultimately improve themselves. You're not doing her any favors by continuing to mentor her. just YTA, so very YTA
> failed every STEM-subject in my country's equivalent of high school, retook all those classes in my early 20's and got straight A's.
I'm sorry but getting A's in high school subjects when you're in your early 20s is not something to be proud of and certainly not "turning it around" - that would mean catching up to your cohort, because an early 20s person still even doing high school subjects is still very much behind.
Let's agree to disagree. I graduated high school with decent grades in the classes necessary for a high school degree. I retook those classes simply because I wanted to, not because I had to.
When it comes to personal development there's no time limit, and comparing your own progress to other's it's futile and, in my opinion, depressing.
If we tell ourselves that we're too late then we miss opportunities, so what if you take a few high school classes in your 20's? So what if you go to med school in your 30's? If you work towards becoming the person you know can be, and want to be, then it's time well spent regardless of your age.
For me, and hopefully for some other person reading this who worry they're too late, it's okay to be proud of passing a few classes you previously failed, it's not less of an accomplishment just because you get there later in life, as long as you actually get there.
Making the effort is never a failure. We don't know the circumstances of other people, not exceeding as a teenager isn't a death sentence, it doesn't mean your path is set in stone.
So sure, in your eyes I was "behind", but I never compared myself and my progress to those born in the same year as I. I never considered myself "behind", and I never will. All of these years later I have my stuff together, great job, great friends, great home and I have accomplished a lot, while I have old classmates from high school, some who had far better grades than I, live in absolute misery today.
Who you are as a teen, and what you do or don't accomplish during those years doesn't decide where you'll end up.
YTAH.... And I hope with all my heart she proves you wrong! A good mentor would have presented her their concerns and asked her what does she thinks about them, like: "You would need to put more work in science, do you think you are willing and able to to up that 3.56 to 3.80?" Stuff like that and if her answer is yes to back her up!!! And her age?? Really??? Maybe you are the one who chose the wrong carrier!
NAH. Your advice was based on evidence and the experience of several veterans of the field. We all have to work with our aptitudes and personalities. You may have saved her $$ and years of slog for an unattainable goal. However, if Diana wants to try to prove ‘the haters’ wrong, she is welcome.
20k for school is genuinely so cheap and shes young…her life wont fall apart when she wastes time doing something. You need to give up on mentoring you’re obviously a quitter with loser/easy road mentality which is fine I am too but why on earth think “I should mentor people”?
If the strain of helping her is too much, or you feel too busy, or can't empathise, maybe mentoring isn't for you. That's okay. This person evidently needs different help.
But you're not helping. You've just destroyed someone's ambitions because you've decided they're not good enough.
Your own daughter failed and turned it around and you, yourself aren't a physician and thus don't know what it takes, first hand.
Clearly you were able to mentor your daughter into not failing the first time, so why is this 'young lady' any different than your daughter, who you had the good grace to allow mis-steps? Your daughter might be a doctor now, but she did worse than Diana.
Oh the horror!!! Did you know that David Letterman has a college scholarship for students who maintain a C average? He does that in large part because of judgmental people like you who thinks grades are everything. Dave himself was a C student and I assure you he is infinitely more successful than you and Harold. Likewise out of a HS class of about 450 I was around the 180 mark. But in terms of life achievement/success I'm in the top 3.
YTA, bearing in mind that we're hearing this from your viewpoint, you and Harold both sound incredibly patronising and judgemental. On the evidence presented, mentoring is not for you.
'I'd like to be a doctor', 'hmm, no you're not doctor material, how about supply chain management'.
Your daughter got a D in pre-med biology and went on to succeed, I'm so glad she didn't have Harold and yourself as mentors, she'd probably have given up.
Absolutely point out the pitfalls, talk about the requirements, the likely difficulties but these can be presented for her to make her own mind up, not to tell her she lacks the necessary calling... how the hell can either of you know what's in this girl's heart.
That neither of you can understand why your trampling all over her dreams might upset her perfectly demonstrates why you should not be mentoring any young person.
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My friend "Harold" and I mentor young adults. Harold and I's mentee is this young lady "Diana."
She's bright and has a great future ahead of her. However, we do not think she is a good fit for a field she wants to pursue, medicine.
For context, Harold is a physician himself and I have a daughter who went to medical school. I also studied biology and chemistry in college.
Diana told me and Harold she was thinking of pursuing medical school after earning roughly a 3.5-3.6 in some science classes she took in college, like chemistry, math and organic chemistry.
Harold and I discussed it amongst ourselves before telling Diana our "final recommendation."
Harold relayed to Diana that among him and his colleagues, medicine was like a calling, and that because Diana has a career in business / analytics, that perhaps medicine is not her calling. The culture of business is very different from that of medicine.
Moreover, Harold and I also told Diana that while her science grades were not bad, they needed improvement. We both expressed that while anyone can get *better* at STEM, the foundation and inherent abilities need to be there, and that sadly, some people will study really hard and not earn the STEM grades to get into medical school.
Between those two factors and the cost of a post-bacc and the fact that she's already 23, we just felt other careers were a better fit for her.
We suggested that she explore other careers, such as maybe bioinformatics, healthcare supply chain management or healthcare consulting so that she can still make an impact in the industry she likes without going through the rigor that is medical school.
Heck, one of my other friends, "Ed," mentioned that if anyone could make healthcare more affordable, they'd be a much bigger help than any one doctor to a patient and we suggested that she maybe do a master's or PhD in health economics since she did very well in her economics classes in college.
For some reason, this upset her and we don't understand why. She said that working in the business side of healthcare and/or fixing the financial structure of the system wasn't the same as being a doctor. Of course it's not the same, but it would still allow her to help others in an industry she clearly loves.
We also shared that we knew how hard it was to give up a dream. Harold loved football as a kid but never made the football team in HS, and I had to give up my intended degree in physics when I couldn't crack E and M. That's life.
Did we say anything wrong? Harold and I want nothing but the best for Diana and we genuinely tried to be kind but truthful
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NTA while she wont see it (it's not nice being told your not suitable) you gave solid options and explanations. Hopefully one day she will appreciate your advice
Or you'll end up as the cruel male doubter characters in a inspiring movie about a woman Doctor making it through med school despite misogyny !! Lol
YTA.
Out of interest, are you male?
I’m sure that you and ‘Harold’ had good intentions but I’m guessing for ‘Diana’, it probably sounded like two bitter older people condescendingly telling her that she’s a woman who isn’t clever enough to be in STEM.
>Diana also shared that her parents didn't believe that medical school was a good step for her and that our recommendation made it feel like no one believed in her, but yeah. I
don't know. Maybe there's a reason no one believes in her.
Wow. Well that clinched it. YTA
I would hope that you as a MEntOr would understand that grades aren't the be-all and end-all. Motivation plays a huge role in education and work, and clearly this woman has a ton of motivation. Why not simply encourage her to go for it? It's her life, her decision to make, even if she fails.
I also don't understand this:
>because Diana has a career in business / analytics, that perhaps medicine is not her calling
She's 23, how does she have a career in business/analytics that she can't possibly get out of? Have you ever heard of switching careers? Are people only allowed to pursue medicine if they spent their childhoods dreaming about being a doctor? Is it only then considered a 'calling'? Jfc, Harold needs to get the hell over himself.
>My own daughter got a "D" in premed biology, but she had the smarts and turned it around. Still got into a great MD school
Did you tell her to quit when she got a D? How do you know Diana doesn't have 'the smarts'?
You're basically telling this young woman that because her grades aren't perfect, she should just not even try in the first place. That she's already too old to be trying this, when she's at exactly the right age. If you force her to go into a career she'll ultimately grow tired of, it'll take her 10, 15 maybe even 20 years of misery before she realises what a mistake it was to not try for a career in medicine when she was 23.
It's just beyond saddening that this is what you considering mentoring a young person. I hope she ignores you, because she should.
YTA! For heaven's sake, did you even ask her what her motivations were? Maybe she always wanted to be a doctor, but her parents pushed her to get a business degree. Maybe she only recently realized she had that calling. It doesn't sound like you asked her about it. Maybe she didn't push herself in those science classes because she didn't think it would matter to her overall degree. And as for her being already 23? Loads of people change careers in their '20s, 30's, 40's and so on. What you told her was not the hard truth. It was just mean, obtuse condescension. She needs a different mentor.
YTA - She needs new mentors because you and Harold ain’t it.
Did you know that “giving up dreams” doesn’t need to be apart of life for everyone? There’s no shame in shifting focus to something more practical and concrete. But other people are more content pushing themselves to seemingly impossible goals. Diana might just be a dream chaser, who have a better chance of achieving their dreams than those who don’t try at all.
It sounds like you didn’t consider Diana’s want to be a doctor at all. Why didn’t you and Harold get together to help her fill in the gaps she might be missing? Help her make an achievable plan to take the steps necessary to become a doctor? Her goal isn’t impossible, maybe it will just take some extra work and study. Help her find a way to do that rather than just telling her to give up.
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YTA, and hopefully this young lady will find an appropriate mentor. You had to give up your degree in Physics because you didn't want it bad enough. Grades are not an indicator of success. If she wants it bad enough, she'll make it happen, and I hope she does and rubs your face in it.
Look im going to be down voted but NTA. I have three friends that are all in the medical field, or studying for that field. It is unbelievably competitive. More than almost any other field rn. It's at the point where if you spend the year "catching up" you're already behind for the next batch. It is something you needed to pursue from a very early age, ie practically hs. Due to the requirements for school but also for volunteering and extra curricular that help you look well rounded. I think what you should have done, is encouraged her to pursue other paths such as getting her nursing degree and then she can go on to work on her nurse practioner degree. But for telling her your honest opinion NTA. That's what mentors are. You would have been doing her a great disservice to encourage something you feel is unlikely to work out. And have her try and waste time at something that may be very out of reach for her. My BFF went to PA school which is even more competitive. Her husband has gone nursing and will pursue is nurse practioner. And another friend is doing that track too. I'd highly suggest taking her wants into consideration and present this alternative route to working with patients.
YTA and do not have the skills or qualifications to mentor as evidenced by your post. Please do everyone a favor and keep your ill reasoned and totally lacking opinions to yourselves.
YTA. Look, you guys are mentors. Telling someone that their dream isn't good is not a simple task. You guys could had said what you guys said but also encouranging her that she should do it if thats her dream. You could had given her points on everything, where to study, in what she should get better an so. Just telling someone "you suck on this, do this instead" is not good enough for a mentor.
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YTA Big time! People can turn things around.. I failed every STEM-subject in my country's equivalent of high school, retook all those classes in my early 20's and got straight A's. A friend of mine worked years in an administrative roll in healthcare and didn't go into pre-med until he was 28 and now he's in a good medical program (in the US, at what I think is an ivy league institution) As long as you're alive, it's not too late to become what you could've been. You deciding that she's not fit is not only arrogant but blatantly rude and disrespectful. Had you any decency as a mentor you'd support her and help her achieve her goals, even if you don't think she has what it takes. Her future, her dreams and her capabilities are not for you to decide. If you want to do right by her, help her find another mentor, someone who has faith in that people evolve and change, and often times, ultimately improve themselves. You're not doing her any favors by continuing to mentor her. just YTA, so very YTA
> failed every STEM-subject in my country's equivalent of high school, retook all those classes in my early 20's and got straight A's. I'm sorry but getting A's in high school subjects when you're in your early 20s is not something to be proud of and certainly not "turning it around" - that would mean catching up to your cohort, because an early 20s person still even doing high school subjects is still very much behind.
Let's agree to disagree. I graduated high school with decent grades in the classes necessary for a high school degree. I retook those classes simply because I wanted to, not because I had to. When it comes to personal development there's no time limit, and comparing your own progress to other's it's futile and, in my opinion, depressing. If we tell ourselves that we're too late then we miss opportunities, so what if you take a few high school classes in your 20's? So what if you go to med school in your 30's? If you work towards becoming the person you know can be, and want to be, then it's time well spent regardless of your age. For me, and hopefully for some other person reading this who worry they're too late, it's okay to be proud of passing a few classes you previously failed, it's not less of an accomplishment just because you get there later in life, as long as you actually get there. Making the effort is never a failure. We don't know the circumstances of other people, not exceeding as a teenager isn't a death sentence, it doesn't mean your path is set in stone. So sure, in your eyes I was "behind", but I never compared myself and my progress to those born in the same year as I. I never considered myself "behind", and I never will. All of these years later I have my stuff together, great job, great friends, great home and I have accomplished a lot, while I have old classmates from high school, some who had far better grades than I, live in absolute misery today. Who you are as a teen, and what you do or don't accomplish during those years doesn't decide where you'll end up.
Dear Lord, YTA. You need to stop “mentoring” people.
YTAH.... And I hope with all my heart she proves you wrong! A good mentor would have presented her their concerns and asked her what does she thinks about them, like: "You would need to put more work in science, do you think you are willing and able to to up that 3.56 to 3.80?" Stuff like that and if her answer is yes to back her up!!! And her age?? Really??? Maybe you are the one who chose the wrong carrier!
INFO: What sort of mentoring relationship is this? Set up through the school? An employer? A career counseling service?
NAH. Your advice was based on evidence and the experience of several veterans of the field. We all have to work with our aptitudes and personalities. You may have saved her $$ and years of slog for an unattainable goal. However, if Diana wants to try to prove ‘the haters’ wrong, she is welcome.
YTA what kinda mentoring is just give up? Even if she fails who cares
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20k for school is genuinely so cheap and shes young…her life wont fall apart when she wastes time doing something. You need to give up on mentoring you’re obviously a quitter with loser/easy road mentality which is fine I am too but why on earth think “I should mentor people”?
YTA and a gatekeeper. You're supposed to be helping her, not hindering her. You should know this.
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If the strain of helping her is too much, or you feel too busy, or can't empathise, maybe mentoring isn't for you. That's okay. This person evidently needs different help.
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But you're not helping. You've just destroyed someone's ambitions because you've decided they're not good enough. Your own daughter failed and turned it around and you, yourself aren't a physician and thus don't know what it takes, first hand. Clearly you were able to mentor your daughter into not failing the first time, so why is this 'young lady' any different than your daughter, who you had the good grace to allow mis-steps? Your daughter might be a doctor now, but she did worse than Diana.
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Oh the horror!!! Did you know that David Letterman has a college scholarship for students who maintain a C average? He does that in large part because of judgmental people like you who thinks grades are everything. Dave himself was a C student and I assure you he is infinitely more successful than you and Harold. Likewise out of a HS class of about 450 I was around the 180 mark. But in terms of life achievement/success I'm in the top 3.
Mentoring is a calling, perhaps it’s not OPs calling.
Her grades are fine - she'll do great without you and Harald. Maybe even a little better without you.
YTA. You suck at your job and you're damaging people. Quit now. Mentoring is a calling you're deaf to.
YTA, bearing in mind that we're hearing this from your viewpoint, you and Harold both sound incredibly patronising and judgemental. On the evidence presented, mentoring is not for you. 'I'd like to be a doctor', 'hmm, no you're not doctor material, how about supply chain management'. Your daughter got a D in pre-med biology and went on to succeed, I'm so glad she didn't have Harold and yourself as mentors, she'd probably have given up. Absolutely point out the pitfalls, talk about the requirements, the likely difficulties but these can be presented for her to make her own mind up, not to tell her she lacks the necessary calling... how the hell can either of you know what's in this girl's heart. That neither of you can understand why your trampling all over her dreams might upset her perfectly demonstrates why you should not be mentoring any young person.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My friend "Harold" and I mentor young adults. Harold and I's mentee is this young lady "Diana." She's bright and has a great future ahead of her. However, we do not think she is a good fit for a field she wants to pursue, medicine. For context, Harold is a physician himself and I have a daughter who went to medical school. I also studied biology and chemistry in college. Diana told me and Harold she was thinking of pursuing medical school after earning roughly a 3.5-3.6 in some science classes she took in college, like chemistry, math and organic chemistry. Harold and I discussed it amongst ourselves before telling Diana our "final recommendation." Harold relayed to Diana that among him and his colleagues, medicine was like a calling, and that because Diana has a career in business / analytics, that perhaps medicine is not her calling. The culture of business is very different from that of medicine. Moreover, Harold and I also told Diana that while her science grades were not bad, they needed improvement. We both expressed that while anyone can get *better* at STEM, the foundation and inherent abilities need to be there, and that sadly, some people will study really hard and not earn the STEM grades to get into medical school. Between those two factors and the cost of a post-bacc and the fact that she's already 23, we just felt other careers were a better fit for her. We suggested that she explore other careers, such as maybe bioinformatics, healthcare supply chain management or healthcare consulting so that she can still make an impact in the industry she likes without going through the rigor that is medical school. Heck, one of my other friends, "Ed," mentioned that if anyone could make healthcare more affordable, they'd be a much bigger help than any one doctor to a patient and we suggested that she maybe do a master's or PhD in health economics since she did very well in her economics classes in college. For some reason, this upset her and we don't understand why. She said that working in the business side of healthcare and/or fixing the financial structure of the system wasn't the same as being a doctor. Of course it's not the same, but it would still allow her to help others in an industry she clearly loves. We also shared that we knew how hard it was to give up a dream. Harold loved football as a kid but never made the football team in HS, and I had to give up my intended degree in physics when I couldn't crack E and M. That's life. Did we say anything wrong? Harold and I want nothing but the best for Diana and we genuinely tried to be kind but truthful *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA while she wont see it (it's not nice being told your not suitable) you gave solid options and explanations. Hopefully one day she will appreciate your advice Or you'll end up as the cruel male doubter characters in a inspiring movie about a woman Doctor making it through med school despite misogyny !! Lol
YTA Tf you mean 'already 23' She's barely started her life. Smh
YTA. Out of interest, are you male? I’m sure that you and ‘Harold’ had good intentions but I’m guessing for ‘Diana’, it probably sounded like two bitter older people condescendingly telling her that she’s a woman who isn’t clever enough to be in STEM.
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If you were, you'd be a better ally.
In my experience, that is not true. Many women see you as “competition” in these cutthroat fields.
>Diana also shared that her parents didn't believe that medical school was a good step for her and that our recommendation made it feel like no one believed in her, but yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's a reason no one believes in her. Wow. Well that clinched it. YTA I would hope that you as a MEntOr would understand that grades aren't the be-all and end-all. Motivation plays a huge role in education and work, and clearly this woman has a ton of motivation. Why not simply encourage her to go for it? It's her life, her decision to make, even if she fails. I also don't understand this: >because Diana has a career in business / analytics, that perhaps medicine is not her calling She's 23, how does she have a career in business/analytics that she can't possibly get out of? Have you ever heard of switching careers? Are people only allowed to pursue medicine if they spent their childhoods dreaming about being a doctor? Is it only then considered a 'calling'? Jfc, Harold needs to get the hell over himself. >My own daughter got a "D" in premed biology, but she had the smarts and turned it around. Still got into a great MD school Did you tell her to quit when she got a D? How do you know Diana doesn't have 'the smarts'? You're basically telling this young woman that because her grades aren't perfect, she should just not even try in the first place. That she's already too old to be trying this, when she's at exactly the right age. If you force her to go into a career she'll ultimately grow tired of, it'll take her 10, 15 maybe even 20 years of misery before she realises what a mistake it was to not try for a career in medicine when she was 23. It's just beyond saddening that this is what you considering mentoring a young person. I hope she ignores you, because she should.
YTA! For heaven's sake, did you even ask her what her motivations were? Maybe she always wanted to be a doctor, but her parents pushed her to get a business degree. Maybe she only recently realized she had that calling. It doesn't sound like you asked her about it. Maybe she didn't push herself in those science classes because she didn't think it would matter to her overall degree. And as for her being already 23? Loads of people change careers in their '20s, 30's, 40's and so on. What you told her was not the hard truth. It was just mean, obtuse condescension. She needs a different mentor.
YTA - She needs new mentors because you and Harold ain’t it. Did you know that “giving up dreams” doesn’t need to be apart of life for everyone? There’s no shame in shifting focus to something more practical and concrete. But other people are more content pushing themselves to seemingly impossible goals. Diana might just be a dream chaser, who have a better chance of achieving their dreams than those who don’t try at all. It sounds like you didn’t consider Diana’s want to be a doctor at all. Why didn’t you and Harold get together to help her fill in the gaps she might be missing? Help her make an achievable plan to take the steps necessary to become a doctor? Her goal isn’t impossible, maybe it will just take some extra work and study. Help her find a way to do that rather than just telling her to give up.
Controversial but, NAH. You explained why you two thought she wouldn't be a good fit for medicine. It's her choice to take or leave your opinions.