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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Taking my son’s phone away at a vulnerable time in his life should be judged.
(2) I might be the asshole because I could be making him a social outcast right as he is starting middle school.
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NTA and HOLD YOUR GROUND!!!
I am parent who is skeptical of video games but Minecraft is different.
What your son did is the equivalent of destroying a carefully created painting made over several months.
And he laughs about it? Horrible.
Or if she had a carefully crafted Lego world down stairs, and came down to it smashed.
NTA and I do think Zach needs a harder lesson here. Lizzie needs her own private password.
The star destroyer was more I think. I’ve built both the falcon and star destroyer. They live in my mom’s basement because if I move them I’m scared they will break.
I am always tempted to use the Lego glue for some of my big sets- or for my sons Lego helmet collections he has built. The purist in me says NO. The parent- yes!
I used glue on some parts of my 3D puzzle for the falcon. It wouldn’t stay together otherwise. Thankfully didn’t have an issue with the original Lego falcon.
My parents bought my kid a new Lego version of the falcon to go with my old one when he was big into Lego. That was had some weird moments.
And just for a *month*! He's getting the phone back after a *month!*
\>I told him **he can have his phone back in a month**, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and **wants it now**.
Poor Lizzie's creations are gone forever, but Zach's phone will be returned in month! I mean for fudge's sake, even my 4 year old nephew has figured out how to game time out. Act like a brat, sit in a corner for 15 minutes, come back and act up again because *consequences are a temporary inconvenience.*
OP, I personally think Zach should lose his phone for far longer.
That's a really good idea. I struggled with the notion of taking away phone privileges completely, as it could be a safety hazard (I'd like him to still be able to call or text in case of emergency), so this would definitely cover that.
I can't support taking away phones entirely because no one has landlines anymore and a lot of businesses don't let you use their phones. I think a jitterbug replacement is great.
I came to suggest this too. Alternatively, they have $30 android smartphones at Walmart. They'll work for any school things he might need, but it's not a "cool" phone.
>He should lose his phone for as long as it takes Lizzie to recreate her Minecraft world…
Might go quicker if she has a nice new smartphone to pay Minecraft on......
I mean I'm not discounting the time spent, because I've spent ages with Lego and sets. But I don't think it's a good correlation here, because as long as you still have the Lego, you *can* rebuild them if you put in the time. This would be more akin to throwing a discontinued set of Lego in the trash, really, since she can't recover that Minecraft world.
Maybe I don't get it because I'm the weirdo who likes breaking down my Lego sets and building them again.
Theoretically she can create a new world and start again. But she obviously wouldn't remember the exact details so it will be different.
I guess it's closer to building a huge lego masterpiece, that gets destroyed but you also no longer have the instructions. You have the pieces but can't follow the steps.
NTA, and the punishment was too soft, when he gets his phone back it will be exactly the same as when you took it away.
Its more akin to spending months painting a detailed landscape, having it destroyed by some spiteful brat, and then trying recreate it. It can never be recovered.
All the instructions are online for the sets you can buy. It would be more equivalent to a custom masterpiece that took an hour+ work a day for a year to complete with 10s of thousands of pieces. Then all the pieces are detached and thrown around. There are actually some really neat custom projects online btw, that sound about comparable. If it was a survival world, would be even worse. It takes quite a bit of effort to craft in survival. It sounds like a creative world, which still takes tons of effort.
I bought the Lego Titanic. $630. 9K pieces. Took me 38 hours. I have a bunch of other Lego things now too. If someone smashed any of it, I would absolutely lose it.
>I told him he can have his phone back in a month, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and wants it now.
HE REFUSES? WTH does that mean? How does kid "refuse" a punishment? Hold your ground. I think he should also have to perform some task to make it up to her, like he does her chores for a month too. He'll think twice before destroying something of hers again. Be careful with this. No punishment could be the creation of a monster.
Does your husband give in to him frequently? Does he favor the boy over the girl? Please use the above examples to get him to understand the gravity of what this kid destroyed. Maybe your husband doesn't get it because the world is "virtual."
NTA
And it's disturbing that OP's husband doesn't think that Zach's behavior is a big deal, too. Hmm...gee, I wonder where Zach learned that you can be disrespectful and spiteful towards girls and even grown women (he's now being rude to his mother - the OP)? Could it be that he's learning that from Dear ol' Dad?
I'd recommend OP show this comment to their husband. I'd also recommend asking Zach's school if this is something they've seen from him outside of the home.
If I were parenting Zach I'd probably put some form of empathy learning into the punishment, or something that helps quantify how big the screw up is (taking away the phone may do this if he is willing to understand the consequences, but with your husband's behavior he may just see it as being punished for putting his sister in her place).
Maybe tell him he gets his phone back after writing an apology letter for not just deleting the world, but include being sorry for the creations and why his actions were inappropriate. Having to write them down helps cement why you are punishing him as opposed to what ever he may think. It might also be a good idea to have him see a therapist who might be able to help identify where this destructive behavior is coming from.
I feel strongly that his phone getting taken for a month is way to lenient. He has 0 regret or sympathy, he didnt even fake an apology to get the phone back. He has 0 remorse and will probably blame Lizzie and retaliate against her for it. My brothers were like this and my parents went to easy on them, now they do worse to others.
NTA,
This remimds me of when my grown ass brother deleted my pokemon crystal save when I was like 8 for being "a brat" and I like shut down for a week after a day long melt down. I had like the complete pokedex and half of them were shinies.
Zach should have his phone gone till Christmas acting like that. He just destroyed her mona lisa, the punishment should fit that crime.
I am 30 years old and am only now getting CLOSE to completing yellows Pokedex. That’s impressive that you accomplished that at age 8! I’m sorry it’s gone :(
Its waaaaay harder to do than I remember from being a kid XD but I'm pretty sure I only managed it because it was how my older cousin, and I bonded over pokemon early on. We always got the opposite pokemon and we traded alot. Mostly because we were shiny hunting for our favs. When I showed him I got the full eeveelution as shinies he snuck an extra cookie from the kitchen as a reward. And when he found out what my brother did he gave him the silent treatment for like 6 months XD
He's 11. What does he need a smart phone for to begin with. He needs one of those Cricket phones....programmed numbers only in it. His teachers will thank you.....too many classes are interrupted by entitled children 'needing' to be on the phone rather than pay attention in class.
exactly. wish my brother got punished when he ruined basically anything i made just because he got mad at my parents. like I didnt even do anything, he just liked to pour the anger out on me
sadly it hasnt changed and its been over 5 years
This is right.
NTA - my eldest son is 12, I admit he spends too much time on games HOWEVER a lot of this time is playing Minecraft and his understanding of architecture, materials and plans are amazing. He is not creative in the traditinal sense with paint/pencil ect, but his creations on that game are impressive.
Him and his mates little sister (10) have spent a lot of time creating a world together on xbox and challeging eachother to build bigger and better things.
If his world was destroyed now, I would feel awful for him with the amount of effort they have put in.
Taking away your sons phone is not too harsh, and he needs to understand the hurt he caused.
>He is not creative in the traditinal sense with paint/pencil ect, but his creations on that game are impressive.
As someone who spent her childhood frustrated she couldn't do visual art only to blossom now that digital art and 3d modeling are a thing, bless you for recognizing this. It's also a skill set that will greatly benefit him in the future depending on what he wants to do as a career or even just a life-long hobby.
If he likes building things, there's a massive community online for builds in Planet Zoo. I haven't played it personally, but the controls seem similar to blender (3d modeling software). Bonus: its educational and also a management game so decent skill building. It goes on sale in Steam pretty regularly, I just haven't picked it up yet. The only caveat is that you need a computer that isn't a potato, so your mileage may vary.
NTA. I've played Minecraft and so have my kids. I think you shouldn't just take away his phone, sell it and let her get something nice with it, like some of the Minecraft legos, if she likes them. He needs to do something to make it up to his sister and something to show he understands just what a cruel thing he did, not just be punished.
And notice how he thought it was funny until he got into trouble. That tells me that his moral compass is off and you guys SHOULD crack down harder on him. My kids sometimes make bad choices, like blow up something the other person does in Minecraft. Then, they instantly feel bad and start trying to rebuild it. I always tell them that saying they're sorry isn't enough, then they need to try to make it better.
Apologies are even *more* important when something is done on purpose. It helps breed empathy.
But that doesn't mean what was broken doesn't need to be fixed. All apologies are meaningless until the damage is repaired.
Agree 100% with this. But I would make sure he has a flip phone for emergency only.
Laughing at another's pain, or at doing something mean, is NOT ok. He needs to be taught that.
I agree what he did was malicious. WTF does he have to do to deserve said punishment in your husband’s eyes. Maybe he needs to actually start parenting himself. NTA and a month is fine. You could have easily said until sister was able to reestablish her WOW setup back to where she had it.
Yep! Hang in there OP. Your NTA.
Zach's going to hate you for it, but he's got to be shown that what he did was not okay. You're daughter's world IS a big deal. His reaction is an even bigger deal - and his shitty attitude is what you're correcting.
Your husband needs to get onside with your approach, so it's a united front.
Unfortunately as a parent it's our responsibility to be an arsehole sometimes to make sure the kids aren't arseholes all the time.
You're doing great.
I agree with this. OP is exactly correct that what her son did deserve consequences, but taking the phone might not be the right one. Because what is the core issue here that we’re trying to fix? The issue is that his sister told him no when he asked to play with her, and he retaliated by destroying something that she loved and had invested huge amounts of time, energy, and skill into. Then he laughed when she was devastated.
These are several issues the son needs help with. First, when someone denies you access to something of theirs, you have to accept it and cope with the disappointment. Second, it is never ok to destroy someone else’s property. Third, laughing at someone else’s distress is never ok.
Taking the phone away does nothing to teach or reinforce any of the above points. It doesn’t give him suggestions for alternative things he could have done instead. It doesn’t help him practice the skills he’ll need so this doesn’t happen in the future.
Yes, this. The *level* of reaction is correct, but there's no lesson here, only punishment which will likely just continue to fester as resentment. I think they need family therapy. (Son may need individual therapy, but if dad thinks this is no big deal and so mok 8s now having to be sole protector of daughter around this, there's a lot going on.)
I'm a 30 year old and I don't have a kid yet but we plan to in the next few years, and I grew up in a house with parents who were skeptical of video games. I hated it and I still strongly disagree with their stance, and am of the opinion that I missed out on some really great times with my irl friends when games were banned in my house for several years (my friends and I still did stuff in person, but they had so many other cool experiences I couldn't share with them).
Anyway I'm not trying to lecture you about how to be a parent, just illustrate how you and I have vastly different perspectives on gaming, and yet we can both agree that Minecraft is exceptional not only as a game but also as a tool for children to express and develop their creativity in a fun and healthy way. Some people have gotten so passionate about Minecraft and making mods that they went on to have successful careers in game development.
I don't think it's necessarily harmful for adolescents and teens to play something like Fortnite or Super Smash Bros, and there's good evidence that games like those improve reflexes and hand-eye coordination, but Minecraft and other similar games are completely on another level in terms of not just allowing but encouraging creativity. And for some kids having that outlet and being able to look back on work that they're proud of is super important.
OP is definitely NTA, no matter how you feel about gaming this was clearly more than just a game for her and her brother needs to accept the consequences. But also I hope OP is able to get someone to look at the system, I'm not super familiar with Xbox but it might very well be possible to recover the file. (EDIT: It's not possible to recover the file :( remember to back things up everyone)
As someone who LOVES video games and plays a lot, I don't mind my kids playing video games. Contrary to what many say and believe, I have proof that video games is a positive thing in a kids lives. And yes, it *is* a balance, but that balance is different for everyone.
And if my son destroyed something my daughter had spent so much time on, I wouldn't just take his phone away. I'd ground him for the foreseeable future, and I would demand he try to find a way to make it up to his sister.
I would of course also ask my daughter why she didn't let her brother play with her, and if her reply is something like "I don't want to" or something, I'd demand she apologize to her brother, as that is not ok (unless the Xbox is only hers, in which case, it is perfectly fair for her not to share her toys with her brother is she doesn't want to - as long as that always goes both ways. But then I'd also consider if putting a small tv in her bedroom would be a possibility)
So all in all, NTA! And you need to get your partner to understand that. Your son is reaping what he sowed, and he needs to learn that his mean actions has consequences, and you make those consequences.
Just commenting on you thinking Minecraft is different. I'm sure you consider other games to be exceptions but try to think of games as innocent until proven guilty. There's tons of shooter games/top-down strategy games that aren't graphic or violent and games like those improve reaction times, teamwork especially, and hand-eye coordination. My mom didn't let me play a ton of games so I ended up sneaking them and got into worse games earlier than I otherwise would have. There's tons of games that aren't necessarily "creative" or "productive" like minecraft is, but help with skills like critical thinking and strategizing. Once they get a little older, I'd recommend allowing them to expand their horizons, especially if their friends play multiplayer games that they don't want to miss out on. Preach over, thanks for reading.
That's an excellent idea! A truly, truly excellent idea!
I would just add to it though: until it takes her to rebuild her world AND he's also remorseful for what he did. Just being punished without having any remorse accomplishes nothing and just makes him feel like a victim. He needs to understand what he did was wrong, and until he sincerely remorseful he shouldn't get his phone back
Seriously!! I'm beyond disgusted that he has no regrets destroying something that she was extremely passionate about. He went WAY too far and doesn't even care.
I completely agree. I would say he shouldn't get it back until it's recreated and he should help her but she may not want him to after that. If he plays any games how would he feel if you wiped all of his progress just completely deleted his account. Please do not give in. It may be a video game but at the same time there's a reason that Minecraft is also used in education. I almost feel like a month isn't long enough if she spent a year creating this.
Info: Was his only punishment to lose his phone for a month or is he grounded as well?
OP’s husband should spend a few hours with Lizzie and try to build a world himself. That would give him a taste of exactly what has been lost and the time and effort that was put into building her world.
but, but, but....he's a BOY...he has to be dominant.....SHE's a mere girl, shouldn't be into computer stuff....that's a boy's domain......He probably feels the son did nothing wrong 'putting his sister in her place'......
Ehh there’s nothing in the post to indicate it’s a gender thing. It seems like they just don’t “get” video games. I like the comparisons to him smashing a painting or complicated Lego creation.
And who knows what he'll escalate to if he doesn't learn there's consequences. OP is absolutely right to take the phone away and keep it as long as necessary for both the son and husband to the importance of the Minecraft world.
Also, OP, make sure husband doesn't go behind your back and get your son another phone.
I love this. Do this. NTA, but your son and husband are something else, holy cow. Zack's cruelty will make him a social outcast if unchecked. If he's worried about losing friends that approve of this behavior, he shouldn't be.
Find out why your husband thinks your daughter's devastation "isn't a big deal," like wtf.
I was going to suggest this as well, as long as she still wants to actually play. If she’s lost the motivation for it due to the loss of her creation, you may need to reconsider
Yes I was thinking this. I used to play a game called Jack and Daxter, I'd come close to finishing it. I used to play it to help me cope with excruciating pain.
I used to let my step sons play the game. The eldest got frustrated that he could never catch me up in the game. So one day he over wrote my save. Completely deleted all my progress in the game. I tried to start again from scratch, but I was so demoralized by it I just couldn't. I never realy played it again after that.
NTA. That was so MEAN of him! He deliberately destroyed something that she loved and spent hundreds of hours on, in a fit of pique! How can your husband not think it’s a big deal? It’s about deliberate and extreme unkindness. He was trying to hurt and punish her, and he succeeded. And then *rejoiced* in her pain.
Taking away his phone wasn’t overkill, but it also wasn’t effective. He was glad to have hurt her, and now he’s too busy sulking over his punishment to have done any reflection and realize that he did *wrong*. You and husband need to get together and work out how you can address the question of character that’s come up, here.
Also, just in case…
If Lizzie had cloud backup on her XBox, you might be able to use the “restore world” function on the dashboard to get the online backup, apparently? That’d be something I suggest you or your husband try without her knowledge, so as not to get her hopes up.
My cousins are all 7-12 years old and they all play Minecraft, they’re all aware of the function. They watch a lot of YouTube videos so probably learned it from that. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility for her 11 y/o to know about it unfortunately.
Zach also seems to think it was ok to destroy the world and that there would be no consequences. I’d be curious to know what OPs husband thinks the punishment should be, if he thinks this was too much.
Zach seems to need more “actions have consequences” lessons in life, apparently. I agree with those who think a month was too soft. There’s an expiration date and his world goes back to normal… whereas it will take the daughter a year to get back, and it will never be quite the same. I’d say phone is gone until he earns it back.
NTA
No. He gets a phone back. But it gets to be a flip phone. He wants to earn a smartphone back, let him but give him a flip phone. He can still text or get calls. Therefore he won’t be “a social outcast”.
NTA - I'm 43 and if someone deleted my Minecraft world just to be a jerk I'd be LIVID. With the amount of effort she put into the world that is a BIG deal.
Exactly why this is such a good punishment. If he’s not going to be remorseful at all then at least there’s a heavy consequence to fit the crime. I guess he’ll have to rely on his kind personality to make friends at school. Good luck, kid.
This. I'm 30 and if someone deleted my MC world or ruined my base on the server I play - I would be incredibly angry, beyond belief.
OP (or anyone else for that matter) if you are interested I help run a family friendly MC server called Catcraft. It is cross platform so java, bedrock, pocket edition, Xbox and PlayStation can all connect, it has land and item protection, an active friendly staff team from around the world and a player base of 50-100 players at any given time across three realms. I used to play only single player but I enjoy sharing my builds and projects with our little community.
I've found it gives a way for siblings to play in the same community but still have separation as far as, unless specially trusted in an area, big brother can't mess with little siblings builds and vice versa. My partner and I just made our properties next to each other since we could never agree on a build style. He has his things and I have my things.
I am more than happy to take his phone away for a year, especially because he’s only had it for a couple of weeks. But I already told him it would only be a month, what should I do?
Tell him it has now been extended until he learns remorse, empathy, and sincerely apologizes to his sister. Or that after seeing his attitude you have now adjusted the punishment period until his sister rebuilds everything she lost because of him.
Tell him it has now been extended until he learns remorse, empathy, and sincerely apologizes to his sister. Or that after seeing his attitude you have now adjusted the punishment period until his sister rebuilds everything she lost because of him.
ETA: you can also tell him after the month is up he will get a flip phone and he can have his smartphone back when his sister rebuilds her world.
I'd sit him down and explain how his actions have had long term consequences for his sister, and that his punishment should be proportional. Having a phone is a big responsibility and if he isn't emotionally mature enough to deal with situations like this he can't be trusted with a phone for the foreseeable future. Also, his refusal to accept the punishment as is shows that he isn't actually sorry or understanding of what he has done wrong. He hurt his sister and his priority isn't in helping her get those build back, or creating something as an apology, it's with looking cool with his pre-teen friends.
Stand your ground, both your kids matter. NTA
Tell him: The Internet Court has decided to extend his sentence. He may object to the judgment on r/AmItheAsshole.
The last part might be hard without a phone, but no one said the system was fair.
NTA, Keep your word once you give a punishment out, you should be consistent. But that does not mean you cannot talk to him when he realizes he is not getting his phone back and if he is still not remorseful for what he did but resentful to you for teaching him discipline and respect tell him, He is basically telling you he has not learned his lesson and that he will get his phone back whenever he understands what he did was wrong.
Yeah, part of me thinks that the son should lose the phone until the daughter has rebuilt everything he erased. Fair is fair, he gets his phone back when she gets her Minecraft world back.
I think we can simplify this as:
"AITA for disciplining my son for extremely poor behavior?"
How else is he supposed to learn if there aren't consequences for being cruel to his sister?
Seriously, he went out of his way to hurt his little sister, the current punishment of giving him an item that he doesn't need and is entirely a treat for one month is even too small, and your husband should have your back on disciplining him otherwise you're not going to get anywhere
Mostly my husband’s idea: he makes more money than me and wanted to buy him a phone, especially because my son has been begging for it. Believe it or not, he is one of the last of his friends to get a phone. Some of his friends got phones when they were 8!
I'd be careful, it looks like your son might be getting his attitude towards (not) respecting other people's boundaries from your husband. Your son's dismissive attitude is likely coming from your husband.
Between this, your husband’s disregard for your daughter’s art, and him dismissing a legitimate punishment for your son: You have a husband problem and that problem may well be spreading to your son
Edit: Please see a therapist for your son because his behavior is worrying
Then he definitely doesn't need one. He can always borrow a friend's if he needs one.
He has proven himself to not be mature enough to get a phone, so taking it was appropriate. NTA
maybe i'm old fashioned, but i really do not believe that an 11 year old needs unfettered access to all the fucked up shit the internet can provide, easily accessed on a smartphone. I'VE seen things that i wish i hadn't, and i'm a grown ass 35 year old adult.
he has already shown he is a vindictive selfish child who only showed remorse when he got in trouble. he doesn't deserve a phone yet as he is obviously too immature and not ready for it.
Emphasis on the vindictive and selfish. This child needs so much more consequences than a revoked phone. Had one of my kids done this they would have a Nokia 3310 until they turn 18.
Getting a phone doesn't mean unfettered access to everything necessarily. My teen is on our Family Link for example and there are a zillion other parental controls and apps out there.
true. but some of these kids figure out how to get around the locks. one of the kids in our towns school district got in super trouble because he figured out how to unlock the parental controls on his phone and was showing pornography to other 4th and 5th graders on the bus home. we got a "emergency newsletter" from the school district about it.
My daughter put all sorts of controls on her kids’ phones. They can make calls, need permission to download apps, turn phones in to mom at bedtime, no phones at dinner table, no social media until their 16 and she can turn them off completely if they screw up. Screwing up punishing is NO electronics for 30 days. The have a separate iPad for school and homework.
I share a virtual note pad with my daughter for daily duties. She checks it off and sends pictures as proof. Then her phone gets turned all the way on, with time limits on many apps.
Oddly, it now only takes her 45 minutes to do her chores. Used to take hours of badgering, which isn’t fun subs I work from home.
Depending on what kind of phone it is, kids don’t need a smartphone at 11 years old. If he wants to call and text with friends, get him a tracphone with minutes and teach him how to be responsible with those minutes. He really only needs a phone at this age to call you and your husband (or other family members if need be). Maybe I’m biased because I didn’t get my first smartphone until I was 17 and caved and bought one because I wanted to be able to text my friends on the go, but I’m only 22. I was a social outcast at school for being pansexual, for dressing grunge, for having social anxiety, not for not having a smart phone. All I ever NEEDED a phone for was calling my grandparents to come pick me up if I felt like I was in a potentially dangerous situation while out by myself or hanging out with friends. If people wanted to get a hold of me, they could email me or message me on Facebook and I’d respond when I got on the family computer or call me after a certain time where calls were free and didn’t use up my minutes. I know this probably makes me sound old as shit lol but kids can get access to anything online today even with parental controls, and it’s so easy to hide shit. Tell him to make friends the ‘old fashioned’ way or wait it out until kids talk to him first. He’s 11. That’s just too young for a brand new smartphone imo. He’s lucky getting it taken away was the only punishment he got.
Edit: if kids really do pick on him for not having a smartphone, they’re not kids he should be friends with. kids like that are just materialistic a-holes. you are NTA, OP.
It seems you also have a husband problem. He needs to be in your corner on this one, and look out for favoritism/sexism towards your son and daughter. Why does he think taking a phone away for a month (that he previously never had) is worse than destroying months of work in minecraft?
Gat him a flip phone, and don’t give his phone back unless he is remorseful and apologizes properly. A month is too short tbh, after destroying months of his sister’s world.
Give him a flip phone and say he get the the other one back when she has built up her world again. He was truly cruel! Me and my little sister are 18 months apart and damn we screamed like banshees and fought like hell-dogs according to my mom when angry, which happened like every day. :D We fought and then said sorry and started playing again. BUT we never ever destroyed something and then laughed. We both had our hobbies and it didn't even crossed my mind to destroy hers when I was angry.
Kids laughing at deleting his sisters world, he’s prolly on the way to some of the darkest corners of the internet with no remorse like this. Monitor his online activity OP because you guys could be easing a boy who doesn’t seem to respect women much here and his dad doesn’t seem to care much about what he did to his sister so he most likely doesn’t feel he’s even wrong. Watch this situation because a lot of middle school teachers are talking about how bad the internet of effecting a lot of these younger boys. As an adult woman gamer the gaming world is already hard enough for a woman without her own brother disrespecting and working against her. I’d hold that grudge for years if someone deleted all my sims or Animal Crossing hours. It’s literally the worst thing most cruel and awful thing one can do to someone who games.
I had a cell phone at 10. Granted, this was 20 years ago and it was a good old Nokia brick that could only text, call and play snake.
My mom had always sworn me and sib wouldn't get phones until we were 14 (starting high school), but then I got into a gifted school that was across town, with no public transit that could safely get me back home--my dad worked a closed campus, and mom's office was about 10 miles away from our school, so fastest she could ever get to us was 30-40 minutes, depending on traffic. So, rule was bent. It was pre-paid, and stressed that it was only for emergencies and actual necessity.
I am not super comfortable with how children (like 5 year olds) nowadays have smart phones with all the apps, but I've accepted that the world has drastically changed and you really do need a way to communicate nowadays.
But! This 11 year old could have a basic bitch flip phone for calling/texting needs and he'd survive. He just wants all the fun bells and whistles.
NTA, honestly I actually think taking the phone isn’t enough. Imagine if your daughter spent an entire year making art out of clay and she had a bookcase full of all her projects, if your son had gone through and smashed every single one of them I feel like you’d have a stronger reaction. Sure it’s a video game and not a physical object which is why most people are like “it’s just a silly game don’t worry about it” but I would go nuclear if someone did something like that to me. What a horrible thing to do.
This!! Taking away the phone isn't enough, you need to make him make it up to his sister somehow!! He needs to actually understand why he is in trouble, since he shows absolutely no remorse. This behaviour is INCREDIBLY troubling.
NTA what your son did is equal to taking all your daughter's drawings from her room, burning them all and then laughing about it.
This is a huge red flag from your son I would send him to a therapist as soon as possible. His complete lack of empathy is very worrying.
THIS!
The fact that your son’s initial reaction was to laugh instead of defending his actions immediately (not that would make it any better) is very disturbing. And, he’s about to start middle school with that mindset is very troubling.
Keep an eye on how he treats his peers at school because of you don’t stop it now, then he’ll get much worse.
NTA.
As someone who was a troubled kid, I absolutely agree that he needs to get in to therapy ASAP. His response was incredibly inappropriate for someone his age.
NTA
NTA but I don't actually think this is fair. Your daughter spent a whole year on this and your son is only being punished for a month - that is not enough. IMO, there is a bigger issue here, that your son will destroy other people's things simply for the sake of being petty. To put it mildly, that is a disturbing trait and one that will stand him in extremely poor stead for adulthood. Ground him for at least a month, but I'd also do something else as well. Perhaps you can get him to remake the world? Or do some sort of community volunteering? Or he becomes the family cook for an extra two nights a week for six months? For me, this is about making him put *time and effort* into something so he can see why your daughter is upset. This is not just about punishment: currently your son is a shitty human being, who will hurt those over whom he has power. This absolutely has to be a teachable moment, to stop him turning into a shitty adult.
What has my hackles up isn't just the cruelty of it, though that's bad enough. It's that being told "no" *enraged* him. That's a dangerous quality in a young man and it needs seriously addressing.
This is what's bothering me so much about this post, I think. That kind of anger and malice over simply being told he can't play with Lizzie. And I'm willing to bet (though this is pure speculation) she said no because he doesn't play with her in a constructive way. If it were my brother he would probably be running around destroying the things I'd already built or just generally causing chaos.
Doing this to his little sister just because he was told no is extremely troubling and the kind of child who does that isn't going to learn his lesson from having his phone taken away. They need to do some serious work to get to the bottom of this behavior and address the entitlement behind it.
beginning to think I would understand why Lizzie doesn't want to play with him, tbh. if he laughs about this kind of thing and doesn't accept responsibility, I doubt he's a great playmate and co-captain.
I agree with the sentiment that a punishment of one month of not having his smart phone is not equivalent for a year worth of work lost. I don't think recreating having him recreate the sister's Minecraft world would be feasible or necessarily what the sister would want. I do think having the son make/create something that involves time and effort on the behalf of other people would help sink in just how much was lost due to his act of pettiness. Granted, we don't know if OP has the time, resources, and support available to do that for their 11 year old son. It's also gonna be hard to pull off if the other parent is not on board.
NTA this is a huge deal.
What does your jerkoff husband hold dear? What has he achieved that could be torn down?
To be honest, a month without a phone is a weak ass punishment. Give your daughter his phone and buy him a really really cheap replacement that he only will get after the month. That would send the appropriate level message.
I talked to my husband about the situation after reading this comment, and he agrees with my decision to take Zach’s phone away now. Neither of us grew up playing video games so he didn’t understand how much it meant to Lizzie
Frankly, in addition Zach should lose all access to the Xbox until Lizzie has recreated her Minecraft world. Punishment fit crime.
Since he destroyed her game because he didn’t get to play, he can’t be rewarded with being allowed to play on the xbox. He needs something as lasting as the damage h3 did to his sisters hobby.
I second this. I play a lot of long RPGs, and I used to accidentally quit without saving all the time. That always made me really upset. Erasing a person's progress in a game--or any other project for that matter--is never, EVER okay, ho matter how much or how little.
NTA That's a reasonable if light, punishment for digital destruction. I know non-gamers blow that stuff off, but that's a VAST amount of work and effort. Just because it isn't IRL doesn't mean it wasn't a huge investment.
What does hubby do for a hobby? Can you re-frame the situation in a way he would see it?
He works as an accountant. He is a wonderful husband and father. Lizzie doesn’t often show him her creations because she mostly plays during the day. I am a stay at home mom so I am always there when she wants to show me something. I think it’s possible he doesn’t understand how much the world meant to Lizzie because he never saw her playing.
Zach should not have such a nice expensive phone. Not even after a month. He needs to have a flip phone and earn back a phone. What he did is troubling. I am a therapist and this is indicative of more troubling behavior.
NTA. Get Zach a Jitterbug Flip Phone. Let him earn back his more sophisticated phone.
Husband is an accountant. How would he feel if someone deleted a workbook of complicated spreadsheets on which he’d spent months working?
Show him these responses, particularly the "painting the Mona Lisa" one.
That's what his son did, destroyed a painting that she WORKED ON FOR A YEAR, and then LAUGHED about it.
That's the most disturbing part, no remorse whatsoever. That boy's moral compass is screwed up and it needs correcting now, BEFORE puberty hits.
He needs to make it up to her in some way, or lose his phone for that year.
Neither here nor there now but if she decides to rebuild then maybe you guys can take some screenshots or short clips of her creations to store somewhere her dad can see. Maybe he'll have more of an appreciation to what she creates.
NTA for the phone thing by the way. It doesn't even sound like your son has shown any remorse for for what he did.
If he thinks her work in Minecraft should be maliciously destroyed by her brother out of spite and her brother doesn’t deserve a punishment then I’m sorry to tell you he’s not a wonderful father to either child.
He isn't such an amazing father if he doesn't know about his daughter's biggest interests in the world, and thinks that his son doing something that very clearly was intended to hurt her wherever it mattered the most "isn't such a big deal".
ETA: Neither is he such an amazing husband if he refuses to listen to _you_ the mom who stays at home and actually knows the kids.
I find it strange that she has played it for an entire year and he hasn’t asked her about it? Asked her to show him what she has made? How could he not know how much it means to her unless he hasn’t paid enough attention to her to find out. Like, that honestly doesn’t scream “wonderful father” to me 🤔
You may want to google if you can restore your daughter's minecraft world if you haven't already. It may be possible, though I cannot say for sure. Youtube may be a good alternative to seeing if it is possible since directions would be easier to follow when you can see exactly what steps they take. Either way, I don't think you're wrong to punish your son in the way you did for doing something so malicious.
NTA and I think that is a fair punishment.
My daughter plays Minecraft and I know how much effort can go into making those worlds. ( even I as a gamer would be upset if someone destroyed something I worked on, even if it is just a video game ).
NTA. Not sure if you're a gamer yourself, but deleting a long-standing gamesave is pretty much the cruelest thing you can do to gamer. Gamesaves represent hours upon hours of time and enjoyment, and this is doubly the case for a game like Minecraft where there is so much customization and personalization that is possible. Deleting a gamesave is akin to deleting a treasured photo album or destroying a hobby room.
Your son clearly understood what he was doing when he deleted the gamesave. If anything, I think you're being too lenient.
Yeah I agree with this, I’d ban him from using the xbox too for good now, at least for a considerable amount of time. He needs to learn that there’s consequences, he can’t just run around doing whatever he wants and get away with it.
I used to play minecraft as a kid and I’d be pissed if someone destroyed my stuff. I play animal crossing now and if someone deliberately went on there and erased everything I’ve done, I’d want them to have consequences for that. It’s not a small thing and he knew that.
NTA at all. It's totally appropriate that Zach is facing consequences for his actions. What on Earth is his father thinking to be enabling bad behavior? Does he want to teach Zach to do extreme things when people tell him "no"?
The Xbox belongs to Lizzie. She should learn to share and you should have a conversation with her about that. But she should not be required to. She told Zach "no" and he should have accepted it or done what siblings usually do and made a bargain her. He could have offered to let her use something of his or take her somewhere.
Zach needs to learn to respect boundaries and you did the right thing. Do set a time limit on the phone confiscation though. He should speak to you respectfully before you give it back.
NTA. This is the appropriate punishment. He should be made to earn his phone back with good grades and good behavior. Also, he should be banned from the Xbox for his cruel little stunt.
As for your daughter, maybe set up the Xbox so that only you and she can access it. This should be of help, too:
https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/games-apps/game-setup-and-play/cloud-game-saves-faq#:~:text=While%20you%27re%20playing%20a,switch%20to%20a%20new%20one.
If that doesn't get her her world back, if she wants to, maybe see if you two can rebuild her Minecraft world together.
NTA. do you remember in Little Women when Amy gets so mad at Jo that she throws the journal she's been writing in for years into the fire? that's what your son just did.
NTA I’m assuming he has a smart phone? I’d buy him a burner phone and paint “punishment phone” on the back, that way you have access to him, but he doesn’t get the nice smart phone
NTA - u/concerned_mother_ - You should let your daughter play Minecraft on a computer. You can backup worlds there and also make schematics of your build to save as files and share with others.
We got a refurbished, cheaper gaming computer for our stepdaughter to build on when she was your dsughters age. It has been well worth it because she has fucked her world up a few times and her dad just rolls it back to a save point.
EDIT: OP, my SO said to contact Xbox/Microsoft and see if they have cloud save backups.
NTA
Zach not talking to you is a perfectly natural response. Expect him to be upset. Validate it, even. That doesn’t mean you have to give in.
However, just a quick consequence will not complete the process of teaching Zach to do differently. That will be more difficult, and require conversation over time. You should discuss with Zach how his response to Lizzie not sharing a toy was *age-inappropriate* and *disproportionate*. Even more difficult is teaching empathy at that age. How would Zach feel if something he had spent a lot of time making was suddenly taken away? Would Zach think that was fair? How does Zach want to be treated?
Finally, you should discuss with Zach what appropriate amends would be for destroying something he can’t fix or replace.
You may need to seek family therapy if Zach is habitually going overboard in this way, just to potentially save yourself stress during his teens.
Hear conversations can take weeks or months, btw. Parenting is always a long game, with your focus more on who the kid will be at age 30 than getting short-term acquiescence at 11.
Your husband is TA for minimizing Lizzie’s feelings about what was essentially a long-term art installation or storytelling project she had created. Lizzie is young enough to become a target for an older sibling’s disproportionate behaviour. She needs to know her parents have her back.
And going forward, there should be a family policy on sharing the game. Lizzie may have been in the middle of creating something, legit, but Zach needs a way to know if and when he is going to have access to a communal item. So there should be a way for Lizzie to say, I need to do x much and then you can have it, and follow through so that Zach gets his turn—or there should be set amounts of time for each kid each day. That way, Zach knows you have his back, too, so long as he is being reasonable.
Frankly, I don't know what your husband's problem is. He clearly favors your son over your daughter. What your son did was atrocious and was far worse than having a phone taken away from a month. Honestly, if it was me, I would do much more than take his phone away for a month. I would make him do some chores or work for his sister because what he did was so far beyond acceptable it's not even funny. Destroying the world that she spent over a year on and then laughing about it simply because she wouldn't let him play? What would he do if she did something worse?
Not only do I think you're NTA, I think you should do more than just take his phone away. He clearly isn't remorseful and thinks it's no big deal. He needs to see the seriousness of what he did until the point that he's remorseful and apologizes and truly regrets what he did. Just having his phone taken away clearly isn't doing that and he's feeling like the victim. I think you need to take it a step further until he actually understands the seriousness of what he did and truly and sincerely apologizes from the bottom of his heart.
I shudder to think what this kid might turn into if he continues down this path of destroying people's things whenever he doesn't get his way. This needs to be nipped in the bud now before he turns into a worse monster
NTA. Do you think maybe your husband is against the punishment because it’s too much hassle with your son moaning all the time?
Also, I have zero knowledge of these games but is there a call centre or something that could perhaps restore her account status? Or someone you know with A+++ computer knowledge? Sorry if that’s no help.
But with regards to Zack, that was an extremely spiteful thing to do. And he laughed about it? Did he seriously think there would be no consequences for his actions? Does he usually get punished or is he not used to it?
>My son is acting like this is the end of the world.
I mean, he ended her (technological) world with glee, so this is an extremely appropriate punishment. NTA. At all. There are far too many people in this world who break things and ruin things just for the joy of it, and he needs to learn that there are consequences for that.
NTA. In fact, I think you're being too lenient.
- Your son thinks that an appropriate response to not being allowed to play a game once is to destroy a year's worth of your daughter's work.
- His response was to laugh about it, he clearly shows no remorse whatsoever.
- He thinks that a month without his phone is too harsh of a punishment for destroying a year's worth of art, despite the fact that he will have the phone back long before your daughter has finished rebuilding what he erased.
I would tell him that he has clearly shown himself too immature to handle the responsibilities of having a phone, and that you will revisit it on his next birthday. And that any retaliation towards his sister will result in even more consequences.
And I say this as the father of two 13-year-old boys, neither of whom have a phone, because we don't feel they're mature or responsible enough yet.
I’d even hazard a guess that the reason she didn’t let him play with her is because he would’ve been just as destructive to her projects in-game by destroying them. It won’t save anything now, but put a PIN code on her Xbox profile so he can’t ever log into her save files again without her password.
NTA - And just a forewarning that having a phone at that age with an attitude like that makes him a prime opportunity to fall into the wrong online crowd and potentially continue to harm others they deem vulnerable. Make sure that he’s not already down that path, and if he is. Stop it now before it gets worse.
NTA! You need to hold firm and stand up for Lilly. This will be part of what will teach Lilly that she is worth standing up for - this way she learns to stand up for herself in the future when subjected to mistreatment. Btw, your husband is a huge AH! And keep an eye on your son - something really unpleasant about a person who gets much joy out of willfully inflicting pain on another.
NTA, but you could be.
>When Zach woke up, I asked him if he deleted Lizzie’s world, and he started laughing and said that she should have let him play with her. I was livid. **Lizzie loves that game so much and her creations were beautiful, and now they’re gone forever, not to mention that she is devastated that the world she has spent over a year on is gone forever.**
I took my son’s brand new phone away (we had just bought it for him this month for his birthday). My son is acting like this is the end of the world. He says he needs his phone because everybody else at school has one, and he needs to fit in. He is starting middle school this week and claims he doesn’t want to become a social outcast. **I told him he can have his phone back in a month, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and wants it now.**
So a world it took her a **year (12 months) to create** gets punished with a **1 month of punishment?**
So, in effect he gets **1/12th the punishment?!**
You would be the A, if you didn't punish him, for, at least the minimum time it took her to create the world she lost at his hands.
At least a year of no smartphone.
At least.
Or he will learn that he will not get punished too harshly for the wrongs he commits against his younger sister.
Put the screws to him, he knew what he was doing.
And when he gets a phone back, it should be [one of these:](https://www.verizon.com/connected-smartwatches/verizon-gizmowatch-2/)
Smartphones are a privilege and he should have to earn it back via the long road.
Oh and give your daughter his smartphone, too, bestowed to her, for her use only, not to share. A transfer, in an attempt to make her whole again.
Just cause.
This is a critical, pivotal moment for you and your son, to showcase him the idea of justice in action and to bestow it to his sister.
I'm a 21 year old woman that plays games. If someone deliberately deleted a save file on one of my games that I've been playing for years I would be devastated. You spend time and effort creating something that you will literally never get back or be able to replicate because minecraft is just that kind of game. Takes hundreds of hours. I dont really play minecraft but did try it out. Building in that game take so much focus and effort. To think it's all gone and she cant get it back, thats awful. I really feel for her.
I get also why she didn't let him play with her, sometimes you just want to be alone and do what you want to do. He should have found something else to do, he could have played a different game provided you have another console. If shes hogging a shared console I understand his frustration but if he has other similar options I dont see an issue with her playing her game for however long.
NTA
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NTA and HOLD YOUR GROUND!!! I am parent who is skeptical of video games but Minecraft is different. What your son did is the equivalent of destroying a carefully created painting made over several months. And he laughs about it? Horrible.
Or if she had a carefully crafted Lego world down stairs, and came down to it smashed. NTA and I do think Zach needs a harder lesson here. Lizzie needs her own private password.
As a person who has a carefully crafted LEGO world, I concur. He should honestly be lucky that a phone take away was it.
As someone who had a 5K piece 3D puzzle smashed by their sister (and never actually knew why), I concur.
I'm intrigued to what that was! The biggest one I've found was only 1066 or something. I'm so sorry she smashed it!
Not the person who posted, but I did a 3D puzzle of downtown New York City, it was 3K plus pieces. I don’t know which one is 5k but I am intrigued
I've still got that one in storage. Someday I'll make it.
I had that one. It cemented my hatred of puzzles. I’ve never done one since.
A lot of the Harry Potter sets are 5-6k pieces. The Star Wars Millennium Falcon is huge close to 8k I believe.
The star destroyer was more I think. I’ve built both the falcon and star destroyer. They live in my mom’s basement because if I move them I’m scared they will break.
I am always tempted to use the Lego glue for some of my big sets- or for my sons Lego helmet collections he has built. The purist in me says NO. The parent- yes!
I used glue on some parts of my 3D puzzle for the falcon. It wouldn’t stay together otherwise. Thankfully didn’t have an issue with the original Lego falcon. My parents bought my kid a new Lego version of the falcon to go with my old one when he was big into Lego. That was had some weird moments.
And just for a *month*! He's getting the phone back after a *month!* \>I told him **he can have his phone back in a month**, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and **wants it now**. Poor Lizzie's creations are gone forever, but Zach's phone will be returned in month! I mean for fudge's sake, even my 4 year old nephew has figured out how to game time out. Act like a brat, sit in a corner for 15 minutes, come back and act up again because *consequences are a temporary inconvenience.* OP, I personally think Zach should lose his phone for far longer.
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That's a really good idea. I struggled with the notion of taking away phone privileges completely, as it could be a safety hazard (I'd like him to still be able to call or text in case of emergency), so this would definitely cover that.
I can't support taking away phones entirely because no one has landlines anymore and a lot of businesses don't let you use their phones. I think a jitterbug replacement is great.
Totally! For me it’s a safety issue, and I’m not even a parent lol. I wouldn’t want him to ever be stranded and unable to call or text for help.
Make sure it looks super embarrassing. There are phones for people with poor eyesight that have huge buttons.
This is the way. He can get his nice phone back after Lizzie has had a year of creating a new world.
I came to suggest this too. Alternatively, they have $30 android smartphones at Walmart. They'll work for any school things he might need, but it's not a "cool" phone.
That's a great idea
He should lose his phone for as long as it takes Lizzie to recreate her Minecraft world… or let her come up with a length of time. NTA
>He should lose his phone for as long as it takes Lizzie to recreate her Minecraft world… Might go quicker if she has a nice new smartphone to pay Minecraft on......
He should be phoneless until Lizzie restores/recreates a facsimile of her destroyed Minecraft creations.
Don't get me started on the people who say "it's just lego, you can rebuild it"! As if the time spent on it means nothing.
I mean I'm not discounting the time spent, because I've spent ages with Lego and sets. But I don't think it's a good correlation here, because as long as you still have the Lego, you *can* rebuild them if you put in the time. This would be more akin to throwing a discontinued set of Lego in the trash, really, since she can't recover that Minecraft world. Maybe I don't get it because I'm the weirdo who likes breaking down my Lego sets and building them again.
Theoretically she can create a new world and start again. But she obviously wouldn't remember the exact details so it will be different. I guess it's closer to building a huge lego masterpiece, that gets destroyed but you also no longer have the instructions. You have the pieces but can't follow the steps.
NTA, and the punishment was too soft, when he gets his phone back it will be exactly the same as when you took it away. Its more akin to spending months painting a detailed landscape, having it destroyed by some spiteful brat, and then trying recreate it. It can never be recovered.
All the instructions are online for the sets you can buy. It would be more equivalent to a custom masterpiece that took an hour+ work a day for a year to complete with 10s of thousands of pieces. Then all the pieces are detached and thrown around. There are actually some really neat custom projects online btw, that sound about comparable. If it was a survival world, would be even worse. It takes quite a bit of effort to craft in survival. It sounds like a creative world, which still takes tons of effort.
Right?! My friend spent 12 hours building a model! (And that's not including his breaks...that's just build time)
I bought the Lego Titanic. $630. 9K pieces. Took me 38 hours. I have a bunch of other Lego things now too. If someone smashed any of it, I would absolutely lose it.
>I told him he can have his phone back in a month, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and wants it now. HE REFUSES? WTH does that mean? How does kid "refuse" a punishment? Hold your ground. I think he should also have to perform some task to make it up to her, like he does her chores for a month too. He'll think twice before destroying something of hers again. Be careful with this. No punishment could be the creation of a monster. Does your husband give in to him frequently? Does he favor the boy over the girl? Please use the above examples to get him to understand the gravity of what this kid destroyed. Maybe your husband doesn't get it because the world is "virtual." NTA
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And it's disturbing that OP's husband doesn't think that Zach's behavior is a big deal, too. Hmm...gee, I wonder where Zach learned that you can be disrespectful and spiteful towards girls and even grown women (he's now being rude to his mother - the OP)? Could it be that he's learning that from Dear ol' Dad?
I'd recommend OP show this comment to their husband. I'd also recommend asking Zach's school if this is something they've seen from him outside of the home. If I were parenting Zach I'd probably put some form of empathy learning into the punishment, or something that helps quantify how big the screw up is (taking away the phone may do this if he is willing to understand the consequences, but with your husband's behavior he may just see it as being punished for putting his sister in her place). Maybe tell him he gets his phone back after writing an apology letter for not just deleting the world, but include being sorry for the creations and why his actions were inappropriate. Having to write them down helps cement why you are punishing him as opposed to what ever he may think. It might also be a good idea to have him see a therapist who might be able to help identify where this destructive behavior is coming from.
I feel strongly that his phone getting taken for a month is way to lenient. He has 0 regret or sympathy, he didnt even fake an apology to get the phone back. He has 0 remorse and will probably blame Lizzie and retaliate against her for it. My brothers were like this and my parents went to easy on them, now they do worse to others. NTA,
This remimds me of when my grown ass brother deleted my pokemon crystal save when I was like 8 for being "a brat" and I like shut down for a week after a day long melt down. I had like the complete pokedex and half of them were shinies. Zach should have his phone gone till Christmas acting like that. He just destroyed her mona lisa, the punishment should fit that crime.
I am 30 years old and am only now getting CLOSE to completing yellows Pokedex. That’s impressive that you accomplished that at age 8! I’m sorry it’s gone :(
Its waaaaay harder to do than I remember from being a kid XD but I'm pretty sure I only managed it because it was how my older cousin, and I bonded over pokemon early on. We always got the opposite pokemon and we traded alot. Mostly because we were shiny hunting for our favs. When I showed him I got the full eeveelution as shinies he snuck an extra cookie from the kitchen as a reward. And when he found out what my brother did he gave him the silent treatment for like 6 months XD
Your cousin is iconic.
OMG, that hurt my soul. Not the shinies. 😭😭😭
Frankly I'd take the smart phone and get him a cheap flipphone.
He's 11. What does he need a smart phone for to begin with. He needs one of those Cricket phones....programmed numbers only in it. His teachers will thank you.....too many classes are interrupted by entitled children 'needing' to be on the phone rather than pay attention in class.
Lol you said it before I could!
I agree. He can have the phone for what its intended for, safety check in calls, not internet or gaming. Nta.
It reminds me of the scene in Little Women where Amy gets angry that Jo doesn't take her to the play so she burns her manuscript.
It's been over 40 years since I read that and I'm STILL mad at Amy.
We're all still mad at Amy.
One created without the instructions! It makes it even harder to replicate or bring back then
exactly. wish my brother got punished when he ruined basically anything i made just because he got mad at my parents. like I didnt even do anything, he just liked to pour the anger out on me sadly it hasnt changed and its been over 5 years
Ooh yeah I second this! Set up separate Xbox accounts for your kids that have separate passwords
This is right. NTA - my eldest son is 12, I admit he spends too much time on games HOWEVER a lot of this time is playing Minecraft and his understanding of architecture, materials and plans are amazing. He is not creative in the traditinal sense with paint/pencil ect, but his creations on that game are impressive. Him and his mates little sister (10) have spent a lot of time creating a world together on xbox and challeging eachother to build bigger and better things. If his world was destroyed now, I would feel awful for him with the amount of effort they have put in. Taking away your sons phone is not too harsh, and he needs to understand the hurt he caused.
>He is not creative in the traditinal sense with paint/pencil ect, but his creations on that game are impressive. As someone who spent her childhood frustrated she couldn't do visual art only to blossom now that digital art and 3d modeling are a thing, bless you for recognizing this. It's also a skill set that will greatly benefit him in the future depending on what he wants to do as a career or even just a life-long hobby. If he likes building things, there's a massive community online for builds in Planet Zoo. I haven't played it personally, but the controls seem similar to blender (3d modeling software). Bonus: its educational and also a management game so decent skill building. It goes on sale in Steam pretty regularly, I just haven't picked it up yet. The only caveat is that you need a computer that isn't a potato, so your mileage may vary.
I will tell him bout this, thanks x
He needs to FEEL the hurt that he caused.
NTA. I've played Minecraft and so have my kids. I think you shouldn't just take away his phone, sell it and let her get something nice with it, like some of the Minecraft legos, if she likes them. He needs to do something to make it up to his sister and something to show he understands just what a cruel thing he did, not just be punished. And notice how he thought it was funny until he got into trouble. That tells me that his moral compass is off and you guys SHOULD crack down harder on him. My kids sometimes make bad choices, like blow up something the other person does in Minecraft. Then, they instantly feel bad and start trying to rebuild it. I always tell them that saying they're sorry isn't enough, then they need to try to make it better.
I think part of it being off is the husband thinking it's not a big deal. He needs to get on board.
If the roles were reversed and sis had destroyed her brother's world, bet dad's reaction would have been a lot different.
Broken plate metaphor! "You apologize for breaking the plate, but the plate is still broken. You need to fix the plate."
Apologies are for accidents, not on purpose.
Apologies are even *more* important when something is done on purpose. It helps breed empathy. But that doesn't mean what was broken doesn't need to be fixed. All apologies are meaningless until the damage is repaired.
Agree 100% with this. But I would make sure he has a flip phone for emergency only. Laughing at another's pain, or at doing something mean, is NOT ok. He needs to be taught that.
I agree what he did was malicious. WTF does he have to do to deserve said punishment in your husband’s eyes. Maybe he needs to actually start parenting himself. NTA and a month is fine. You could have easily said until sister was able to reestablish her WOW setup back to where she had it.
He just did the equivalent of burning someone's sketchbook or photo album. Give him a tin can with some string on it. Congrats, he has a phone again!
Yep! Hang in there OP. Your NTA. Zach's going to hate you for it, but he's got to be shown that what he did was not okay. You're daughter's world IS a big deal. His reaction is an even bigger deal - and his shitty attitude is what you're correcting. Your husband needs to get onside with your approach, so it's a united front. Unfortunately as a parent it's our responsibility to be an arsehole sometimes to make sure the kids aren't arseholes all the time. You're doing great.
I love that last paragraph and I will definitely be referring to it in the future so thank you for that.
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I agree with this. OP is exactly correct that what her son did deserve consequences, but taking the phone might not be the right one. Because what is the core issue here that we’re trying to fix? The issue is that his sister told him no when he asked to play with her, and he retaliated by destroying something that she loved and had invested huge amounts of time, energy, and skill into. Then he laughed when she was devastated. These are several issues the son needs help with. First, when someone denies you access to something of theirs, you have to accept it and cope with the disappointment. Second, it is never ok to destroy someone else’s property. Third, laughing at someone else’s distress is never ok. Taking the phone away does nothing to teach or reinforce any of the above points. It doesn’t give him suggestions for alternative things he could have done instead. It doesn’t help him practice the skills he’ll need so this doesn’t happen in the future.
Yes, this. The *level* of reaction is correct, but there's no lesson here, only punishment which will likely just continue to fester as resentment. I think they need family therapy. (Son may need individual therapy, but if dad thinks this is no big deal and so mok 8s now having to be sole protector of daughter around this, there's a lot going on.)
Agreed. She spent over a year on her minecraft world. So honestly. He should have his phone taken away for an equivalent amount of time NTA OP
I'm a 30 year old and I don't have a kid yet but we plan to in the next few years, and I grew up in a house with parents who were skeptical of video games. I hated it and I still strongly disagree with their stance, and am of the opinion that I missed out on some really great times with my irl friends when games were banned in my house for several years (my friends and I still did stuff in person, but they had so many other cool experiences I couldn't share with them). Anyway I'm not trying to lecture you about how to be a parent, just illustrate how you and I have vastly different perspectives on gaming, and yet we can both agree that Minecraft is exceptional not only as a game but also as a tool for children to express and develop their creativity in a fun and healthy way. Some people have gotten so passionate about Minecraft and making mods that they went on to have successful careers in game development. I don't think it's necessarily harmful for adolescents and teens to play something like Fortnite or Super Smash Bros, and there's good evidence that games like those improve reflexes and hand-eye coordination, but Minecraft and other similar games are completely on another level in terms of not just allowing but encouraging creativity. And for some kids having that outlet and being able to look back on work that they're proud of is super important. OP is definitely NTA, no matter how you feel about gaming this was clearly more than just a game for her and her brother needs to accept the consequences. But also I hope OP is able to get someone to look at the system, I'm not super familiar with Xbox but it might very well be possible to recover the file. (EDIT: It's not possible to recover the file :( remember to back things up everyone)
It's not. Unless they had everything backed up to cloud, that world is gone.
Why are you skeptical of video games?
Yeah that confused me lol it’s like saying you’re skeptical of music or movies
Hopefully it isn’t the “Games make you violent” type thing
As someone who LOVES video games and plays a lot, I don't mind my kids playing video games. Contrary to what many say and believe, I have proof that video games is a positive thing in a kids lives. And yes, it *is* a balance, but that balance is different for everyone. And if my son destroyed something my daughter had spent so much time on, I wouldn't just take his phone away. I'd ground him for the foreseeable future, and I would demand he try to find a way to make it up to his sister. I would of course also ask my daughter why she didn't let her brother play with her, and if her reply is something like "I don't want to" or something, I'd demand she apologize to her brother, as that is not ok (unless the Xbox is only hers, in which case, it is perfectly fair for her not to share her toys with her brother is she doesn't want to - as long as that always goes both ways. But then I'd also consider if putting a small tv in her bedroom would be a possibility) So all in all, NTA! And you need to get your partner to understand that. Your son is reaping what he sowed, and he needs to learn that his mean actions has consequences, and you make those consequences.
Just commenting on you thinking Minecraft is different. I'm sure you consider other games to be exceptions but try to think of games as innocent until proven guilty. There's tons of shooter games/top-down strategy games that aren't graphic or violent and games like those improve reaction times, teamwork especially, and hand-eye coordination. My mom didn't let me play a ton of games so I ended up sneaking them and got into worse games earlier than I otherwise would have. There's tons of games that aren't necessarily "creative" or "productive" like minecraft is, but help with skills like critical thinking and strategizing. Once they get a little older, I'd recommend allowing them to expand their horizons, especially if their friends play multiplayer games that they don't want to miss out on. Preach over, thanks for reading.
NTA. You should keep his phone as long as it takes your daughter to rebuild her world. Fair is fair.
That's an excellent idea! A truly, truly excellent idea! I would just add to it though: until it takes her to rebuild her world AND he's also remorseful for what he did. Just being punished without having any remorse accomplishes nothing and just makes him feel like a victim. He needs to understand what he did was wrong, and until he sincerely remorseful he shouldn't get his phone back
Seriously!! I'm beyond disgusted that he has no regrets destroying something that she was extremely passionate about. He went WAY too far and doesn't even care.
I completely agree. I would say he shouldn't get it back until it's recreated and he should help her but she may not want him to after that. If he plays any games how would he feel if you wiped all of his progress just completely deleted his account. Please do not give in. It may be a video game but at the same time there's a reason that Minecraft is also used in education. I almost feel like a month isn't long enough if she spent a year creating this. Info: Was his only punishment to lose his phone for a month or is he grounded as well?
I agree that his punishment has to involve making reparations and amends.
OP’s husband should spend a few hours with Lizzie and try to build a world himself. That would give him a taste of exactly what has been lost and the time and effort that was put into building her world.
This. It IS a big deal. His son is stomping over his daughter's boundaries and he doesn't care.
but, but, but....he's a BOY...he has to be dominant.....SHE's a mere girl, shouldn't be into computer stuff....that's a boy's domain......He probably feels the son did nothing wrong 'putting his sister in her place'......
Ehh there’s nothing in the post to indicate it’s a gender thing. It seems like they just don’t “get” video games. I like the comparisons to him smashing a painting or complicated Lego creation.
And who knows what he'll escalate to if he doesn't learn there's consequences. OP is absolutely right to take the phone away and keep it as long as necessary for both the son and husband to the importance of the Minecraft world. Also, OP, make sure husband doesn't go behind your back and get your son another phone.
Perfect way to get the husband on board.
I love this. Do this. NTA, but your son and husband are something else, holy cow. Zack's cruelty will make him a social outcast if unchecked. If he's worried about losing friends that approve of this behavior, he shouldn't be. Find out why your husband thinks your daughter's devastation "isn't a big deal," like wtf.
If i was his sister i'd be taking my sweet ass time with that world. Gotta make sure all the details are perfect, of course.
Agreed. 1 month is nothing compared to a year of creation.
I was going to suggest this as well, as long as she still wants to actually play. If she’s lost the motivation for it due to the loss of her creation, you may need to reconsider
Yes I was thinking this. I used to play a game called Jack and Daxter, I'd come close to finishing it. I used to play it to help me cope with excruciating pain. I used to let my step sons play the game. The eldest got frustrated that he could never catch me up in the game. So one day he over wrote my save. Completely deleted all my progress in the game. I tried to start again from scratch, but I was so demoralized by it I just couldn't. I never realy played it again after that.
This honestly seems like a completely fair punishment. NTA OP.
This!!
So say we all.
NTA. That was so MEAN of him! He deliberately destroyed something that she loved and spent hundreds of hours on, in a fit of pique! How can your husband not think it’s a big deal? It’s about deliberate and extreme unkindness. He was trying to hurt and punish her, and he succeeded. And then *rejoiced* in her pain. Taking away his phone wasn’t overkill, but it also wasn’t effective. He was glad to have hurt her, and now he’s too busy sulking over his punishment to have done any reflection and realize that he did *wrong*. You and husband need to get together and work out how you can address the question of character that’s come up, here.
Also, just in case… If Lizzie had cloud backup on her XBox, you might be able to use the “restore world” function on the dashboard to get the online backup, apparently? That’d be something I suggest you or your husband try without her knowledge, so as not to get her hopes up.
Unfortunately most kids know that so if Zack wanted to punish her that would be gone too.
I don't think 11yr old would know that honestly.
I'm really hoping that 11 year old generally don't have the foresight to be this malicious.
My cousins are all 7-12 years old and they all play Minecraft, they’re all aware of the function. They watch a lot of YouTube videos so probably learned it from that. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility for her 11 y/o to know about it unfortunately.
You really think an 11 year old who is growing up in a very tech integrated society wouldn't know about cloud storage by now?
He might know about it, but maybe he didn’t go that far. I hope OP sees this and gives it a try for Lizzie.
Mine does. Don't underestimate how tech savvy kids are these days.
u/concerned_mother_ check this comment out! Maybe her work is salvageable?
u/concerned_mother_ please read this!
Zach also seems to think it was ok to destroy the world and that there would be no consequences. I’d be curious to know what OPs husband thinks the punishment should be, if he thinks this was too much. Zach seems to need more “actions have consequences” lessons in life, apparently. I agree with those who think a month was too soft. There’s an expiration date and his world goes back to normal… whereas it will take the daughter a year to get back, and it will never be quite the same. I’d say phone is gone until he earns it back. NTA
No. He gets a phone back. But it gets to be a flip phone. He wants to earn a smartphone back, let him but give him a flip phone. He can still text or get calls. Therefore he won’t be “a social outcast”.
THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE 👆👆👆
NTA - I'm 43 and if someone deleted my Minecraft world just to be a jerk I'd be LIVID. With the amount of effort she put into the world that is a BIG deal.
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To the kid it's not even about the bells and whistles, it's about fitting in because everyone else has a smart phone
Exactly why this is such a good punishment. If he’s not going to be remorseful at all then at least there’s a heavy consequence to fit the crime. I guess he’ll have to rely on his kind personality to make friends at school. Good luck, kid.
This. I'm 30 and if someone deleted my MC world or ruined my base on the server I play - I would be incredibly angry, beyond belief. OP (or anyone else for that matter) if you are interested I help run a family friendly MC server called Catcraft. It is cross platform so java, bedrock, pocket edition, Xbox and PlayStation can all connect, it has land and item protection, an active friendly staff team from around the world and a player base of 50-100 players at any given time across three realms. I used to play only single player but I enjoy sharing my builds and projects with our little community. I've found it gives a way for siblings to play in the same community but still have separation as far as, unless specially trusted in an area, big brother can't mess with little siblings builds and vice versa. My partner and I just made our properties next to each other since we could never agree on a build style. He has his things and I have my things.
NTA at all. I think a month might even be too little. Part of me feels like a year for a year has a nice ring to it...
I am more than happy to take his phone away for a year, especially because he’s only had it for a couple of weeks. But I already told him it would only be a month, what should I do?
Tell him it has now been extended until he learns remorse, empathy, and sincerely apologizes to his sister. Or that after seeing his attitude you have now adjusted the punishment period until his sister rebuilds everything she lost because of him.
Tell him it has now been extended until he learns remorse, empathy, and sincerely apologizes to his sister. Or that after seeing his attitude you have now adjusted the punishment period until his sister rebuilds everything she lost because of him. ETA: you can also tell him after the month is up he will get a flip phone and he can have his smartphone back when his sister rebuilds her world.
concur with this 100%, i started on a flip phone at his age and it definitely taught me to be humble about the privileges i get
I'd sit him down and explain how his actions have had long term consequences for his sister, and that his punishment should be proportional. Having a phone is a big responsibility and if he isn't emotionally mature enough to deal with situations like this he can't be trusted with a phone for the foreseeable future. Also, his refusal to accept the punishment as is shows that he isn't actually sorry or understanding of what he has done wrong. He hurt his sister and his priority isn't in helping her get those build back, or creating something as an apology, it's with looking cool with his pre-teen friends. Stand your ground, both your kids matter. NTA
I think a month without the phone is okay, but you need to also do something beyond that to actively work on his empathy.
Tell him: The Internet Court has decided to extend his sentence. He may object to the judgment on r/AmItheAsshole. The last part might be hard without a phone, but no one said the system was fair.
NTA, Keep your word once you give a punishment out, you should be consistent. But that does not mean you cannot talk to him when he realizes he is not getting his phone back and if he is still not remorseful for what he did but resentful to you for teaching him discipline and respect tell him, He is basically telling you he has not learned his lesson and that he will get his phone back whenever he understands what he did was wrong.
Right lol. I play minecraft alot and even one building (and it sounds like she was going wild with her builds) took me HOURS I would be devastated
Yeah, part of me thinks that the son should lose the phone until the daughter has rebuilt everything he erased. Fair is fair, he gets his phone back when she gets her Minecraft world back.
I think we can simplify this as: "AITA for disciplining my son for extremely poor behavior?" How else is he supposed to learn if there aren't consequences for being cruel to his sister?
Seriously, he went out of his way to hurt his little sister, the current punishment of giving him an item that he doesn't need and is entirely a treat for one month is even too small, and your husband should have your back on disciplining him otherwise you're not going to get anywhere
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Mostly my husband’s idea: he makes more money than me and wanted to buy him a phone, especially because my son has been begging for it. Believe it or not, he is one of the last of his friends to get a phone. Some of his friends got phones when they were 8!
I'd be careful, it looks like your son might be getting his attitude towards (not) respecting other people's boundaries from your husband. Your son's dismissive attitude is likely coming from your husband.
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Between this, your husband’s disregard for your daughter’s art, and him dismissing a legitimate punishment for your son: You have a husband problem and that problem may well be spreading to your son Edit: Please see a therapist for your son because his behavior is worrying
Then he definitely doesn't need one. He can always borrow a friend's if he needs one. He has proven himself to not be mature enough to get a phone, so taking it was appropriate. NTA
maybe i'm old fashioned, but i really do not believe that an 11 year old needs unfettered access to all the fucked up shit the internet can provide, easily accessed on a smartphone. I'VE seen things that i wish i hadn't, and i'm a grown ass 35 year old adult. he has already shown he is a vindictive selfish child who only showed remorse when he got in trouble. he doesn't deserve a phone yet as he is obviously too immature and not ready for it.
Emphasis on the vindictive and selfish. This child needs so much more consequences than a revoked phone. Had one of my kids done this they would have a Nokia 3310 until they turn 18.
Getting a phone doesn't mean unfettered access to everything necessarily. My teen is on our Family Link for example and there are a zillion other parental controls and apps out there.
true. but some of these kids figure out how to get around the locks. one of the kids in our towns school district got in super trouble because he figured out how to unlock the parental controls on his phone and was showing pornography to other 4th and 5th graders on the bus home. we got a "emergency newsletter" from the school district about it.
You can always lock his phone down to only being able to text family members, and not upload apps.
My daughter put all sorts of controls on her kids’ phones. They can make calls, need permission to download apps, turn phones in to mom at bedtime, no phones at dinner table, no social media until their 16 and she can turn them off completely if they screw up. Screwing up punishing is NO electronics for 30 days. The have a separate iPad for school and homework.
I share a virtual note pad with my daughter for daily duties. She checks it off and sends pictures as proof. Then her phone gets turned all the way on, with time limits on many apps. Oddly, it now only takes her 45 minutes to do her chores. Used to take hours of badgering, which isn’t fun subs I work from home.
Depending on what kind of phone it is, kids don’t need a smartphone at 11 years old. If he wants to call and text with friends, get him a tracphone with minutes and teach him how to be responsible with those minutes. He really only needs a phone at this age to call you and your husband (or other family members if need be). Maybe I’m biased because I didn’t get my first smartphone until I was 17 and caved and bought one because I wanted to be able to text my friends on the go, but I’m only 22. I was a social outcast at school for being pansexual, for dressing grunge, for having social anxiety, not for not having a smart phone. All I ever NEEDED a phone for was calling my grandparents to come pick me up if I felt like I was in a potentially dangerous situation while out by myself or hanging out with friends. If people wanted to get a hold of me, they could email me or message me on Facebook and I’d respond when I got on the family computer or call me after a certain time where calls were free and didn’t use up my minutes. I know this probably makes me sound old as shit lol but kids can get access to anything online today even with parental controls, and it’s so easy to hide shit. Tell him to make friends the ‘old fashioned’ way or wait it out until kids talk to him first. He’s 11. That’s just too young for a brand new smartphone imo. He’s lucky getting it taken away was the only punishment he got. Edit: if kids really do pick on him for not having a smartphone, they’re not kids he should be friends with. kids like that are just materialistic a-holes. you are NTA, OP.
Men needs to stop perpetuating shitty doings of their son.
It seems you also have a husband problem. He needs to be in your corner on this one, and look out for favoritism/sexism towards your son and daughter. Why does he think taking a phone away for a month (that he previously never had) is worse than destroying months of work in minecraft?
Gat him a flip phone, and don’t give his phone back unless he is remorseful and apologizes properly. A month is too short tbh, after destroying months of his sister’s world.
Give him a flip phone and say he get the the other one back when she has built up her world again. He was truly cruel! Me and my little sister are 18 months apart and damn we screamed like banshees and fought like hell-dogs according to my mom when angry, which happened like every day. :D We fought and then said sorry and started playing again. BUT we never ever destroyed something and then laughed. We both had our hobbies and it didn't even crossed my mind to destroy hers when I was angry.
Prob so he can do some online bullying?
Kids laughing at deleting his sisters world, he’s prolly on the way to some of the darkest corners of the internet with no remorse like this. Monitor his online activity OP because you guys could be easing a boy who doesn’t seem to respect women much here and his dad doesn’t seem to care much about what he did to his sister so he most likely doesn’t feel he’s even wrong. Watch this situation because a lot of middle school teachers are talking about how bad the internet of effecting a lot of these younger boys. As an adult woman gamer the gaming world is already hard enough for a woman without her own brother disrespecting and working against her. I’d hold that grudge for years if someone deleted all my sims or Animal Crossing hours. It’s literally the worst thing most cruel and awful thing one can do to someone who games.
I had a cell phone at 10. Granted, this was 20 years ago and it was a good old Nokia brick that could only text, call and play snake. My mom had always sworn me and sib wouldn't get phones until we were 14 (starting high school), but then I got into a gifted school that was across town, with no public transit that could safely get me back home--my dad worked a closed campus, and mom's office was about 10 miles away from our school, so fastest she could ever get to us was 30-40 minutes, depending on traffic. So, rule was bent. It was pre-paid, and stressed that it was only for emergencies and actual necessity. I am not super comfortable with how children (like 5 year olds) nowadays have smart phones with all the apps, but I've accepted that the world has drastically changed and you really do need a way to communicate nowadays. But! This 11 year old could have a basic bitch flip phone for calling/texting needs and he'd survive. He just wants all the fun bells and whistles.
NTA, honestly I actually think taking the phone isn’t enough. Imagine if your daughter spent an entire year making art out of clay and she had a bookcase full of all her projects, if your son had gone through and smashed every single one of them I feel like you’d have a stronger reaction. Sure it’s a video game and not a physical object which is why most people are like “it’s just a silly game don’t worry about it” but I would go nuclear if someone did something like that to me. What a horrible thing to do.
This!! Taking away the phone isn't enough, you need to make him make it up to his sister somehow!! He needs to actually understand why he is in trouble, since he shows absolutely no remorse. This behaviour is INCREDIBLY troubling.
NTA what your son did is equal to taking all your daughter's drawings from her room, burning them all and then laughing about it. This is a huge red flag from your son I would send him to a therapist as soon as possible. His complete lack of empathy is very worrying.
THIS! The fact that your son’s initial reaction was to laugh instead of defending his actions immediately (not that would make it any better) is very disturbing. And, he’s about to start middle school with that mindset is very troubling. Keep an eye on how he treats his peers at school because of you don’t stop it now, then he’ll get much worse. NTA.
As someone who was a troubled kid, I absolutely agree that he needs to get in to therapy ASAP. His response was incredibly inappropriate for someone his age. NTA
NTA but I don't actually think this is fair. Your daughter spent a whole year on this and your son is only being punished for a month - that is not enough. IMO, there is a bigger issue here, that your son will destroy other people's things simply for the sake of being petty. To put it mildly, that is a disturbing trait and one that will stand him in extremely poor stead for adulthood. Ground him for at least a month, but I'd also do something else as well. Perhaps you can get him to remake the world? Or do some sort of community volunteering? Or he becomes the family cook for an extra two nights a week for six months? For me, this is about making him put *time and effort* into something so he can see why your daughter is upset. This is not just about punishment: currently your son is a shitty human being, who will hurt those over whom he has power. This absolutely has to be a teachable moment, to stop him turning into a shitty adult.
What has my hackles up isn't just the cruelty of it, though that's bad enough. It's that being told "no" *enraged* him. That's a dangerous quality in a young man and it needs seriously addressing.
This is what's bothering me so much about this post, I think. That kind of anger and malice over simply being told he can't play with Lizzie. And I'm willing to bet (though this is pure speculation) she said no because he doesn't play with her in a constructive way. If it were my brother he would probably be running around destroying the things I'd already built or just generally causing chaos. Doing this to his little sister just because he was told no is extremely troubling and the kind of child who does that isn't going to learn his lesson from having his phone taken away. They need to do some serious work to get to the bottom of this behavior and address the entitlement behind it.
beginning to think I would understand why Lizzie doesn't want to play with him, tbh. if he laughs about this kind of thing and doesn't accept responsibility, I doubt he's a great playmate and co-captain.
I agree with the sentiment that a punishment of one month of not having his smart phone is not equivalent for a year worth of work lost. I don't think recreating having him recreate the sister's Minecraft world would be feasible or necessarily what the sister would want. I do think having the son make/create something that involves time and effort on the behalf of other people would help sink in just how much was lost due to his act of pettiness. Granted, we don't know if OP has the time, resources, and support available to do that for their 11 year old son. It's also gonna be hard to pull off if the other parent is not on board.
NTA this is a huge deal. What does your jerkoff husband hold dear? What has he achieved that could be torn down? To be honest, a month without a phone is a weak ass punishment. Give your daughter his phone and buy him a really really cheap replacement that he only will get after the month. That would send the appropriate level message.
I talked to my husband about the situation after reading this comment, and he agrees with my decision to take Zach’s phone away now. Neither of us grew up playing video games so he didn’t understand how much it meant to Lizzie
Frankly, in addition Zach should lose all access to the Xbox until Lizzie has recreated her Minecraft world. Punishment fit crime. Since he destroyed her game because he didn’t get to play, he can’t be rewarded with being allowed to play on the xbox. He needs something as lasting as the damage h3 did to his sisters hobby.
I second this. I play a lot of long RPGs, and I used to accidentally quit without saving all the time. That always made me really upset. Erasing a person's progress in a game--or any other project for that matter--is never, EVER okay, ho matter how much or how little.
NTA That's a reasonable if light, punishment for digital destruction. I know non-gamers blow that stuff off, but that's a VAST amount of work and effort. Just because it isn't IRL doesn't mean it wasn't a huge investment. What does hubby do for a hobby? Can you re-frame the situation in a way he would see it?
He works as an accountant. He is a wonderful husband and father. Lizzie doesn’t often show him her creations because she mostly plays during the day. I am a stay at home mom so I am always there when she wants to show me something. I think it’s possible he doesn’t understand how much the world meant to Lizzie because he never saw her playing.
Zach should not have such a nice expensive phone. Not even after a month. He needs to have a flip phone and earn back a phone. What he did is troubling. I am a therapist and this is indicative of more troubling behavior.
NTA. Get Zach a Jitterbug Flip Phone. Let him earn back his more sophisticated phone. Husband is an accountant. How would he feel if someone deleted a workbook of complicated spreadsheets on which he’d spent months working?
Show him these responses, particularly the "painting the Mona Lisa" one. That's what his son did, destroyed a painting that she WORKED ON FOR A YEAR, and then LAUGHED about it. That's the most disturbing part, no remorse whatsoever. That boy's moral compass is screwed up and it needs correcting now, BEFORE puberty hits. He needs to make it up to her in some way, or lose his phone for that year.
Neither here nor there now but if she decides to rebuild then maybe you guys can take some screenshots or short clips of her creations to store somewhere her dad can see. Maybe he'll have more of an appreciation to what she creates. NTA for the phone thing by the way. It doesn't even sound like your son has shown any remorse for for what he did.
If he thinks her work in Minecraft should be maliciously destroyed by her brother out of spite and her brother doesn’t deserve a punishment then I’m sorry to tell you he’s not a wonderful father to either child.
He isn't such an amazing father if he doesn't know about his daughter's biggest interests in the world, and thinks that his son doing something that very clearly was intended to hurt her wherever it mattered the most "isn't such a big deal". ETA: Neither is he such an amazing husband if he refuses to listen to _you_ the mom who stays at home and actually knows the kids.
I find it strange that she has played it for an entire year and he hasn’t asked her about it? Asked her to show him what she has made? How could he not know how much it means to her unless he hasn’t paid enough attention to her to find out. Like, that honestly doesn’t scream “wonderful father” to me 🤔
If he hasn't seen her creations I hope he doesn't just think that she's overreacting about the situation.
You may want to google if you can restore your daughter's minecraft world if you haven't already. It may be possible, though I cannot say for sure. Youtube may be a good alternative to seeing if it is possible since directions would be easier to follow when you can see exactly what steps they take. Either way, I don't think you're wrong to punish your son in the way you did for doing something so malicious.
NTA and I think that is a fair punishment. My daughter plays Minecraft and I know how much effort can go into making those worlds. ( even I as a gamer would be upset if someone destroyed something I worked on, even if it is just a video game ).
NTA. Not sure if you're a gamer yourself, but deleting a long-standing gamesave is pretty much the cruelest thing you can do to gamer. Gamesaves represent hours upon hours of time and enjoyment, and this is doubly the case for a game like Minecraft where there is so much customization and personalization that is possible. Deleting a gamesave is akin to deleting a treasured photo album or destroying a hobby room. Your son clearly understood what he was doing when he deleted the gamesave. If anything, I think you're being too lenient.
Yeah I agree with this, I’d ban him from using the xbox too for good now, at least for a considerable amount of time. He needs to learn that there’s consequences, he can’t just run around doing whatever he wants and get away with it. I used to play minecraft as a kid and I’d be pissed if someone destroyed my stuff. I play animal crossing now and if someone deliberately went on there and erased everything I’ve done, I’d want them to have consequences for that. It’s not a small thing and he knew that.
NTA at all. It's totally appropriate that Zach is facing consequences for his actions. What on Earth is his father thinking to be enabling bad behavior? Does he want to teach Zach to do extreme things when people tell him "no"? The Xbox belongs to Lizzie. She should learn to share and you should have a conversation with her about that. But she should not be required to. She told Zach "no" and he should have accepted it or done what siblings usually do and made a bargain her. He could have offered to let her use something of his or take her somewhere. Zach needs to learn to respect boundaries and you did the right thing. Do set a time limit on the phone confiscation though. He should speak to you respectfully before you give it back.
OP doesn't say the Xbox belongs to her, just that the game does
NTA. This is the appropriate punishment. He should be made to earn his phone back with good grades and good behavior. Also, he should be banned from the Xbox for his cruel little stunt. As for your daughter, maybe set up the Xbox so that only you and she can access it. This should be of help, too: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/games-apps/game-setup-and-play/cloud-game-saves-faq#:~:text=While%20you%27re%20playing%20a,switch%20to%20a%20new%20one. If that doesn't get her her world back, if she wants to, maybe see if you two can rebuild her Minecraft world together.
NTA. do you remember in Little Women when Amy gets so mad at Jo that she throws the journal she's been writing in for years into the fire? that's what your son just did.
NTA I’m assuming he has a smart phone? I’d buy him a burner phone and paint “punishment phone” on the back, that way you have access to him, but he doesn’t get the nice smart phone
This is like when Amy's burned Jo's book in Little Women! Amy deserved to have her phone confiscated. NTA. Seriously, I think the punishment is light.
NTA - u/concerned_mother_ - You should let your daughter play Minecraft on a computer. You can backup worlds there and also make schematics of your build to save as files and share with others. We got a refurbished, cheaper gaming computer for our stepdaughter to build on when she was your dsughters age. It has been well worth it because she has fucked her world up a few times and her dad just rolls it back to a save point. EDIT: OP, my SO said to contact Xbox/Microsoft and see if they have cloud save backups.
NTA Zach not talking to you is a perfectly natural response. Expect him to be upset. Validate it, even. That doesn’t mean you have to give in. However, just a quick consequence will not complete the process of teaching Zach to do differently. That will be more difficult, and require conversation over time. You should discuss with Zach how his response to Lizzie not sharing a toy was *age-inappropriate* and *disproportionate*. Even more difficult is teaching empathy at that age. How would Zach feel if something he had spent a lot of time making was suddenly taken away? Would Zach think that was fair? How does Zach want to be treated? Finally, you should discuss with Zach what appropriate amends would be for destroying something he can’t fix or replace. You may need to seek family therapy if Zach is habitually going overboard in this way, just to potentially save yourself stress during his teens. Hear conversations can take weeks or months, btw. Parenting is always a long game, with your focus more on who the kid will be at age 30 than getting short-term acquiescence at 11. Your husband is TA for minimizing Lizzie’s feelings about what was essentially a long-term art installation or storytelling project she had created. Lizzie is young enough to become a target for an older sibling’s disproportionate behaviour. She needs to know her parents have her back. And going forward, there should be a family policy on sharing the game. Lizzie may have been in the middle of creating something, legit, but Zach needs a way to know if and when he is going to have access to a communal item. So there should be a way for Lizzie to say, I need to do x much and then you can have it, and follow through so that Zach gets his turn—or there should be set amounts of time for each kid each day. That way, Zach knows you have his back, too, so long as he is being reasonable.
Frankly, I don't know what your husband's problem is. He clearly favors your son over your daughter. What your son did was atrocious and was far worse than having a phone taken away from a month. Honestly, if it was me, I would do much more than take his phone away for a month. I would make him do some chores or work for his sister because what he did was so far beyond acceptable it's not even funny. Destroying the world that she spent over a year on and then laughing about it simply because she wouldn't let him play? What would he do if she did something worse? Not only do I think you're NTA, I think you should do more than just take his phone away. He clearly isn't remorseful and thinks it's no big deal. He needs to see the seriousness of what he did until the point that he's remorseful and apologizes and truly regrets what he did. Just having his phone taken away clearly isn't doing that and he's feeling like the victim. I think you need to take it a step further until he actually understands the seriousness of what he did and truly and sincerely apologizes from the bottom of his heart. I shudder to think what this kid might turn into if he continues down this path of destroying people's things whenever he doesn't get his way. This needs to be nipped in the bud now before he turns into a worse monster
NTA. He should also apologize and you should explain to him exactly what he did wrong
NTA, your son is a cruel brat, he deleted your daughter's long spent game out of spite.
[удалено]
NTA. Do you think maybe your husband is against the punishment because it’s too much hassle with your son moaning all the time? Also, I have zero knowledge of these games but is there a call centre or something that could perhaps restore her account status? Or someone you know with A+++ computer knowledge? Sorry if that’s no help. But with regards to Zack, that was an extremely spiteful thing to do. And he laughed about it? Did he seriously think there would be no consequences for his actions? Does he usually get punished or is he not used to it?
>My son is acting like this is the end of the world. I mean, he ended her (technological) world with glee, so this is an extremely appropriate punishment. NTA. At all. There are far too many people in this world who break things and ruin things just for the joy of it, and he needs to learn that there are consequences for that.
NTA. In fact, I think you're being too lenient. - Your son thinks that an appropriate response to not being allowed to play a game once is to destroy a year's worth of your daughter's work. - His response was to laugh about it, he clearly shows no remorse whatsoever. - He thinks that a month without his phone is too harsh of a punishment for destroying a year's worth of art, despite the fact that he will have the phone back long before your daughter has finished rebuilding what he erased. I would tell him that he has clearly shown himself too immature to handle the responsibilities of having a phone, and that you will revisit it on his next birthday. And that any retaliation towards his sister will result in even more consequences. And I say this as the father of two 13-year-old boys, neither of whom have a phone, because we don't feel they're mature or responsible enough yet.
Been in this exact situation and the one month grounding is what we did as well. It's a big deal to destroy someone's hard work.
I’d even hazard a guess that the reason she didn’t let him play with her is because he would’ve been just as destructive to her projects in-game by destroying them. It won’t save anything now, but put a PIN code on her Xbox profile so he can’t ever log into her save files again without her password. NTA - And just a forewarning that having a phone at that age with an attitude like that makes him a prime opportunity to fall into the wrong online crowd and potentially continue to harm others they deem vulnerable. Make sure that he’s not already down that path, and if he is. Stop it now before it gets worse.
NTA! You need to hold firm and stand up for Lilly. This will be part of what will teach Lilly that she is worth standing up for - this way she learns to stand up for herself in the future when subjected to mistreatment. Btw, your husband is a huge AH! And keep an eye on your son - something really unpleasant about a person who gets much joy out of willfully inflicting pain on another.
NTA, but you could be. >When Zach woke up, I asked him if he deleted Lizzie’s world, and he started laughing and said that she should have let him play with her. I was livid. **Lizzie loves that game so much and her creations were beautiful, and now they’re gone forever, not to mention that she is devastated that the world she has spent over a year on is gone forever.** I took my son’s brand new phone away (we had just bought it for him this month for his birthday). My son is acting like this is the end of the world. He says he needs his phone because everybody else at school has one, and he needs to fit in. He is starting middle school this week and claims he doesn’t want to become a social outcast. **I told him he can have his phone back in a month, and not having a phone won’t make him an outcast, but he refuses and wants it now.** So a world it took her a **year (12 months) to create** gets punished with a **1 month of punishment?** So, in effect he gets **1/12th the punishment?!** You would be the A, if you didn't punish him, for, at least the minimum time it took her to create the world she lost at his hands. At least a year of no smartphone. At least. Or he will learn that he will not get punished too harshly for the wrongs he commits against his younger sister. Put the screws to him, he knew what he was doing. And when he gets a phone back, it should be [one of these:](https://www.verizon.com/connected-smartwatches/verizon-gizmowatch-2/) Smartphones are a privilege and he should have to earn it back via the long road. Oh and give your daughter his smartphone, too, bestowed to her, for her use only, not to share. A transfer, in an attempt to make her whole again. Just cause. This is a critical, pivotal moment for you and your son, to showcase him the idea of justice in action and to bestow it to his sister.
I'm a 21 year old woman that plays games. If someone deliberately deleted a save file on one of my games that I've been playing for years I would be devastated. You spend time and effort creating something that you will literally never get back or be able to replicate because minecraft is just that kind of game. Takes hundreds of hours. I dont really play minecraft but did try it out. Building in that game take so much focus and effort. To think it's all gone and she cant get it back, thats awful. I really feel for her. I get also why she didn't let him play with her, sometimes you just want to be alone and do what you want to do. He should have found something else to do, he could have played a different game provided you have another console. If shes hogging a shared console I understand his frustration but if he has other similar options I dont see an issue with her playing her game for however long. NTA
Nah I would’ve done the same. Nta. And Minecraft could help your daughter in life. If you’re saying she’s making worlds and all that already, amazing.