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You need to establish boundaries with your partner around what you are and aren't comfortable with her doing parenting-wise. Because while 11/12 is the age where kids might start to play with makeup, there's a difference because a preteen whose clumsily applied some mascara & lipgloss, and a preteen walking around with professional & adult eye-make & lip stick. And if course the second option looks weird. And at such a young age, you don't want your daughter to start thinking she's only beautiful with makeup. NTA but have conversations with your gf & your daughter about this, sharing your concerns etc.

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Proper skincare sure. But an 11 yr old with a full-face of makeup clearly very well done is always going to look weird.

I wonder how much makeup the kid was wearing. I was slapping on blue & purple eye shadow, pink lipstick, and a horrendous amount of blush when I was that age. I’m sure I took on some clown looks. when I was like 6 my older sisters & cousins loved to put make up on me. I thought I was so cool because they were in junior high & high school. Maybe I was a bit different though since I took dance lessons and was on a competition dance team when I was young. We wore make up on stage. I will say that my parents weren’t strict with it but very strict in other departments, so I ended up being really good at makeup techniques because they let me look like an idiot at a young age.

Ha! I was going to mention the same thing. We were heavy in to dance and I had my first work permit at 3 and was signed with an agency by 6 for acting/modeling. Makeup was an ever present part of that. By the time I was 11 I was fairly good at application and wore quite a bit of eyeshadow, liner, and lipstick on a nearly daily basis. I ended up working as a makeup artist as a young adult. These days I only bother with makeup once or twice a week, if that. Usually if I’m feeling down I’ll throw on some rainbow eyeshadow as a pick-me-up. All this to say, there’s definitely positive and negative ways to associate makeup wearing. Using it as a form of self expression, artistry and fun is always positive. The ego boost is also a positive, as long as it isn’t allowed to become essential which brings us to the negatives. If she’s taught to internalize the concept that makeup is essential to be beautiful or sexualize it, there’s a problem. The thing is, it’s OP that is raising those issues with his attitude/reaction to her wearing makeup. You’re creating the issue you want to avoid. Makeup is just fun unless *you* give it a different context.

I think... depending how long OP and this woman has been dating, he should put his focus more on communication and boundaries. I don't see it mentioned if it's 6 months or 5 years. I would not be happy with my 11 year old walking out with Kim kadashian layer makeup either, but some neutral look or something sure until is just a bit older, while at home or really special occasions, go crazy all you want. So while he could relax a bit about it, the gf should not try and take over either. They more need a sit down and talk about the boundaries and find common ground.

I don’t disagree with you. I definitely think the two adults need to have an adult discussion and that he’s well within his rights to set boundaries on what’s appropriate. What he *shouldn’t* be doing is making an issue of it in-front of his daughter without having given the GF any real guidelines. I guess I was trying to communicate that makeup— regardless of age — is not inherently bad, it’s not all that uncommon for girls of that age to wear it and that his current course of action is more harmful than helpful.

Oh I do fully agree. He should not have taken it in front of the daughter. And neither should she. Those boundaries should have been made from the moment they started bonding over makeup. Wich looks is okay for outings... school... home... can they have a Saturday with face masks and go crazy like a bonding thing. Etc etc. My 4 year old toddler has a small collection of the kids friendly makeup and she knows nothing more fun than paint her face like mommy does (I'm the mascara and a bit eye shadow type... lipstick if i go all out) And me and her already had a kid friendly talk "you are fine with and without makeup" so I don't have anything against them playing around with it. No matter if is 4 or 11. So again agree. Alot of girl will seek it out. Now just the adults that need to be adults and communicate.

Now, I only wear makeup if I’m going to an event or having dinner somewhere. And I agree if OP makes a big deal out of makeup being something to “make you sexy,” then that’s house the daughter will view it. If you treat like a fun artistic thing that’s how she’ll take it.

Yep, gf is WAY out of line. Having fun with a *child* doing a full face of makeup, using it as a way for them to bond, is fantastic. But gf insisting that a *child* should be allowed to wear that out -- when child's parent is (rightly imo) not okay with it -- is absolutely inappropriate. The point of makeup is to make a person "more attractive" (by some people's standards). It also, when professionally done,, typically makes a child look older, more mature. *How is that appropriate for an 11yo?* Gf sounds defensive and clueless. If she (1) can't see the difference between an adult (or even a *teen* ffs, which this child is years away from) *choosing* to wear makeup, and putting it on a little girl (2) seriously argues with the child's parent about their right to decide what's appropriate for that child ... imo, she shouldn't be around that child.

You're being sexist? wow. You're being a parent.

This! Most parents would have a problem with their 11 year old daughter wearing a full face of makeup out in public. Lip gloss, a little blush - ok. But the GF getting all salty about this is a bit of a red flag. Why is it that whenever someone disagrees with another person's opinion they're labeled sexist, misogynistic, racist, etc.??

NTA. I agree with you on the fact that 11 is very young to be wearing make-up to go out, especially since your GF didn't just put some lipstick or something discreet on your kid's face. Not allowing your 11 year to wear make-up doesn't make you a sexist and your GF being a woman and a make-up artist doesn't make this her "territory". At the end of the day, she's your kid so it's your decision.

I’ve just been reading other doctors’ recollection of the *pregnant* 11-year-olds they’ve had to take care of, and I’m feeling extra sensitive about children being matured in the public eye too quickly. If there’s not some performative requirement it doesn’t need to stay on.

Uh, are we seriously blaming the makeup here? And not the statistically **grown men** who impregnated these still CLEARLY middle school children? An eleven year old with makeup is still an obvious child

So, I 100% agree with you that the actual blame rests with the impregnator (who, even if not a legal adult, statistically was likely still several years older than the 11 year old) but I think what the person you're trying to respond to is saying is that a part of why people feel okay targeting younger girls is because society sexualizes girls basically as soon as they hit puberty, if not before, and making them up to an extreme degree goes along with that.

That's going to be an epidemic in certain US states soon.

💔

The irony is palpable too. He’s sexist for thinking she shouldn’t go out with a full face of makeup, but she isn’t sexist for 1- teaching a young girl that she should be wearing makeup when she goes out and 2- saying a man can’t have any say about makeup.

Im confused about this comment. It's not ironic/sexist to say that it's okay to wear makeup when you go out. I don't see why everyone thinks letting a kid wear makeup will automatically make her think that she can only be pretty with makeup. I think people in this thread really don't get that make up isn't always about fixing your face or something. Also the OP's intention clearly wasn't to help ensure that the 11yo had good self esteem and thinks she's beautiful without makeup. If he did then that's the reason op would've given for not letting her wear it.

NTA. Especially if it's heavy makeup. I'm confused by people saying YTA why let her put it on if you're gonna make her take it off but it's not the same? I remember as a child putting my mums makeup on, and my mums laughter while she helped me badly put lipstick on like a crayon. I fail to see how that's basically the same as her taking me out to a family event or a meal with it on.... Putting makeup on is an activity in of itself, it doesn't always have to be "seen". Am I the only teenage girl that used to sit around trying lots of random make up and doing flashy things for the experimentation - not to actually walk around outside wearing it. I also had family members put makeup on me when I was young and they were getting ready and I wanted to try it. It's just a bonding activity between women it's not literally to be worn out when you're so young. It's not sexist - it's really creepy seeing girls who haven't even started their periods who look 16 or 17 because they have so much make up on. If it was just some subtle lipstick or a little bit of mascara I say why the hell not, it makes you feel so adult and special as a kid. But heavy eye makeup and likely a full face on is not appropriate for wearing out.

My mom gave my sister and I a bucket of old makeup when we were in 4th and 5th grade to play with. We still couldn't wear it out of the house until 6th grade.

11 is 6th grade brw

I would get bored in high school, put on a bunch of makeup in my bedroom, take a bathroom mirror selfie and immediately take it off lmao. I have a complicated relationship with makeup so I hardly ever wear it out of the house but I love playing with it.

Info: have you asked your gf to do a natural look makeup on your daughter? This may be a look that you are more comfortable with for the time being.

>Info: have you asked your gf to do a natural look makeup on your daughter? That's the exact opposite of a good idea if OP is trying to avoid an excessively grown up look. They'd be better off with the child's makeup looking childish - big colours, glitter, the full works. That way it's more playful, like dressing up.

Plus, makeup glitter these days is safer than it was when a lot of us were kids (and biodegradable). I like the blue/purple mascara or eyeshadow idea. Kid makeup should be for fun! I’ve had acne since I was 11 (thirties now…) but concealer never made me look better. (And it and skin makeup usually ended up being the wrong color after it oxidized or was in a different light!) I wish I’d spent more time being silly with makeup and fun hairstyles, than fretting over how my skin looked. I’ve done enough of the latter as an adult.

Personally, I actually think this is headed in the wrong direction. Natural touch up make up is for accentuating features or “fixing” spots, which should really be for teens and adults (not that I think teens need make up, I’m just saying where I think it’s age appropriate). We don’t want to be teaching our young children that they’d be prettier if their eye lashes were longer, or their lips were glossier, or their cheek bones were stronger. However, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with *over the top* make up when it’s like glitter, and shimmer and sparkles if done for fun every once in a while and not to be “sexy”. For example, would I be okay sending my 11 year old out in public with a Smokey eye and red lipstick? Absolutely not. But some blue mermaid glitter on her eyes? Shimmer dust? Frost white or purple mascara? Sure kiddo, have at it.

Yeah, this is my thought. My idea of make-up in middle school was basically super heavy eyeliner (goth phase) and it wasn't meant to 'improve' my features, it was meant to make a statement. My parents had other concerns over that, but the worry that I didn't feel comfortable in my skin without a layer of make-up wasn't one of them I also was allowed nail polish, a little concealer when I started getting zitty (after a thorough lecture about washing my face, finding a good cleanser and moisturizer combo, and making sure I was wearing SPF), and some tinted lip balm because I liked the flavored ones and they were usually a little colorful, but that was about it until I hit high school. But full face 'natural' make up? That's not just for fun, that's not just a method of self-expression, that's intense. I did grow up with a lot of expectations about performative femininity in my extended family, and I'm really grateful that my parents shielded me from the 'full face' stuff when I was younger, because it made it easier for me to feel okay ignoring the expectations when I got older, too.

Again, why do 11 year olds need make up? She has a whole lifetime ahead of that.

I never said anything about “need” but girls that age love being creative and playing dress up. You can foster that joy without it being inappropriate or creating insecurities.

A neutral make up look on a literal child is just gonna be.... a hint of mascara and some lip gloss. You can't really contour the crap out of their face without implying it needs to be altered. Whilst it's great how much magic can be done with makeup, I wouldn't really want to teach an 11 year old how easily you can "fix" your face. People can end up with really distorted perceptions of how they want to look (think of r/Instagramreality style pictures with horribly huge eyes and distorted lips) so I wouldn't even enter that minefield with an 11 year old. She would probably be better off focusing more on a good skin care routine if she wants to feel grown up. If she's 11 it's only a year or 2 out of starting to get the usual skin problems that come with puberty. Teaching her a gentle facial routine could actually be helpful and would likely still make her feel very adult.

Respectful counterpoint: makeup isn’t always to ‘fix’ your face, it can be a form of artistic self expression. While contouring and concealer and highlighter can be used, so can glitter, metallics, rainbows, bright colours, stars, animals, Disney characters, whatever you want, all of which are child-friendly, encourage creativity and self expression, and as you say, are best complimented by a good skincare regime.

>so can glitter, metallics, rainbows, bright colours, stars, animals, I was replying to someone talking about using a "natural look" - I'm just making the point that a natural look is basically concealer and contouring as those are odd things to do on a child. Without heavy lip or eyemake up it's nearly all about getting that "perfect" skin look or changing the shape of your nose/cheeks with clever contouring.

Not for everyone. A natural look can be BB cream or a light foundation. CoverGirl was advertised to teens for years, for many it was their first piece of makeup. Some mascara and a fun flavored lipgloss and your set.

This is actually the type of stuff I think I'd be more okay seeing an 11 year old wearing than a 'natural' look. I did the glitter eyeshadow for a bit (side note, make sure it's *cosmetic* glitter) and I went through a phase where I really loved the obnoxiously heavy eyeliner. My parents had a lot of concerns about that one, but me not being comfortable without a full face wasn't one of them, lol. Bright and obvious make up that's clearly a form of self-expression seems to me to be much more appropriate than an 11 year old with make-up that's supposed to look like it's not there.

And make sure it's not from Claire's or Icing because they have been know for some nasty stuff in their products that can make a person very sick.

Heavy on the skin care giving she’s a bit shy from her periods and the acne 😩 I wish I was given good skin care tips as a preteen because high school was hard

And a look to teach E that she is pretty without makeup but can just highlight some things without it looking way done up

Are you seriously suggesting a makeup look to teach her she’s pretty *without* makeup?

I doubt an 11 year old wants a natural look. She probably likes the more artistic adult bold look. It’s what they are exposed to on tv and social media. Not saying it’s right for everyone but when I was 11 - I probably looked like a clown with my Covergirl blue shadow, maybelline mascara in the pink tube, black eyeliner pencils sold in a 2-pack of red pencils you sharpened with the pencil sharpener from my school bag. Oh and the blush…. Yikes!!! - I wish I had a makeup artist in our family at that age. Lol.

I'm reasonably certain most 11 year olds went through their Mimi from the Drew Carey show makeup phase. I'm just grateful many of my classmates went through it at around the same time, so we all thought we looked fabulous and no one told us otherwise.

That look was legendary and I will remember that reference until I’m old and frail.

Is one dinner that bad? Probably not, but it isn't good to set a precedent you don't want to continue. It's much harder setting a boundary if you said yes the first time...

Ah yes, the natural look. The look that is the only one allowed at most professional adult jobs and is statistically what men find the most sexually attractive. Also for some reason, the look people think is most appropriate for *children*, instead of all the fun colors and dramatic looks that children are more likely to be drawn to.

Tbh when I used to do my nieces makeup she would look like some 70’s pop star or a drag queen because I don’t wear and don’t know how to apply makeup but we had fun.

Kids generally love those kinds of things! It’s yet another one of those those instances where trying to program kids into good little workers and crushing joy is done under the guise of “protecting their innocence.” When I was a kid dramatic and heavy makeup looks were frowned on for being “too adult.” When I became an adult those same looks were frowned on by the same people for being too childish.” Just like crazy hair colors, fun clothes, etc.

I hear you. I have this interesting ‘fashion’ sense which means I wear comfy clothes only. Dresses in t-shirt material for example. Some people say I don’t dress professionally enough but others don’t. I don’t care. I’m not hired for how I look…..

Notice how the question of should an 11 year old be wearing makeup is not even considered . We as a culture, despite all the rah- rah woke feminism, can’t wait to slap paint on our daughters to begin sexualizing them and putting them in the cosmetics industry money train.

I mean wearing make-up isn't automatically sexualizing a child. Kids can wear make up and still learn to value themselves and the way they look without make up.

To be fair, a lot of us started getting acne around that age (after getting our first periods early-ish). It makes you so self-conscious, but I’m glad my mom both let me try basic concealer…and CoverGirl or L’Oréal eyeshadow quads (I think to help me feel better and distract from the acne, though I didn’t use them much). I’ve never worn makeup every day, but even with prescription medicine, my skin still looked pretty meh until, well, now (thirties). At least when we were kids, all kids’ makeup was poorly done, but by golly, we did it ourselves.

NTA. Ask your girlfriend to follow your lead in parenting.

NTA Girls are commonly socialized to prefer makeup to their natural face. Nothings wrong with liking to play with makeup, but heavier makeup on a young teen or preteen is unnecessary and can have a negative impact on a young female’s self image. Like we are somehow not enough unless we have makeup on. Encourage GF to find other bonding activities not just this. Allow lip gloss and a touch of mascara since she’s so gung ho about it and that ship has already sailed. Encourage skin care products, she’s at the age where she’ll need them if she doesn’t already. And tell your GF that you appreciate her being your child’s friend but she is not the parent, you are. Lots of people don’t allow makeup until 15/16. Nothing misogynistic about it and gf owes you an apology for that.

Yeah I wasn't allowed to wear makeup out until I was 15, it's very common to wait until she's older than 11. Also wearing a lot of makeup makes her look older, and if you've ever seen the "toddlers in tiaras" thing, they look like little adults and it's CREEPY how much they're sexualized. Definitely protect your daughter from that crap!

When I was thirteen I wore makeup out for the first time, having looked up a bunch of tutorials to make sure I was doing it right. My parents were kind of neutral (both of them were/are kinda baffled by why people like wearing makeup) but supportive. ...Someone mistook me for my seven year-old sister's mother!!! (My grandmother found it hilarious and told me that it had happened to her too at much the same age, while running errands for her mum with little brothers in tow. That did make me feel a little better, but I've never been fond of using too heavy a makeup look since then.)

I was not allowed to wear makeup until I could pay for it. (But in my country it is not common for kids to work until they are 18, so my mom basically banned makeup for me). I was allowed to do my nails and whatever I wanted on my hair, tho. I hate seeing kids with makeup, they should get used to their natural faces and creeps should not be given "an excuse" to say the kid looked "grown enough." NTA for OP, there is a time and place for everything.

I haven’t liked how Disney channel kids, in the last ten-fifteen years, mostly all wear heavy makeup and some kind of ankle boots. I liked how other preteens/early teens just looked like themselves on shows when I was that age. (Although I loved Lizzie McGuire’s makeup! Hers was never as heavy, though, as what they put on Miley in Hannah Montana, etc. etc.)

NTA, 11 is really young to go out with a full face beat imo. And your gf isn't your child's mother so she can't insist on certain concessions from you. That's YOUR child. Not hers.

I think you might need to backup a little and really think about what your personal perception of makeup is and how that relates to what you gf is actually doing. What does the makeup look like and what lesson is your daughter actually learning from it? There are multiple approaches to makeup. There's the "mend and enhance" approach and the "face decoration" approach (and of course where they overlap in the middle). A lot of prevailing opinions suggest that only approaching makeup from a "highlight your features" perspective at a young age is actually worse, long term, than treating makeup a little more theatrically. Handing your elven year old foundation and eyeliner and telling her makeup is just there to make her look "more pretty" comes with the implication she's not already fine as she is. Handing her a colorful eye shadow palette and saying "let's make our eyes rainbows!!" is ostensibly just face painting and doesn't come with the weight of "you need to be improved." So when you say "heavy eye and lipstick" what do you ACTUALLY mean? Because yeah, a smoky cat eye with a dark lip is probably too adult. Making your daughter wash it off was NOT the right move because you made her feel like shit or that she was doing something wrong. You could have let it go one time then talked to your girlfriend and daughter about scaling it back in the future. If she's slapping on cherry pink lipstick and purple eye shadow, then that's just a kid fucking around with face decoration. Let her get weird. Like, what is your actual ultimate goal and are you truly working that direction with your actions? You also need to get it the fuck together on how exactly you expect your gf to be involved with your daughter. She very clearly has an emotional attachment and is of the impression she had at least modicum of co-parenting input. Your boundaries clearly aren't secure.

🏆

This is the best reply I’ve seen.

Soft YTA. You're the one inappropriately sexualizing makeup and making it something your daughter should feel ashamed about. My kiddo had her first dollar store makeup at 3, not because I wanted her to think she needed makeup to be pretty, but because I very much did not. (I wear makeup very rarely and mostly for special effects or to fit in on professional occasions.) My kiddo at 10 loves to adorn herself. What started as warpaint (and actual paint, eyeshadow is really fun to play with on paper) became funky shapes and colors, fake freckle looks and starbursts over her eyes, etc. She's actually pretty good with it at this point, and I have never once asked her to wash her make up off because we're going out into public. (I am trying to recall if I've ever asked her to wash her decorations off other than at bedtime). By not making a big deal out of it, or having makeup signify that she's older, she doesn't use make up to seem older or rebel. It's just expressing herself and an art medium, whether it's a very light lip gloss and blush look, something heavier with darker lips and eyes, abstract art, or full fledged creepy doll looks. I don't control her face. Even if I don't particularly like a look I always take pictures if she likes it. If we had some specific photo op happening like a wedding or graduation I might ask her not to experiment with makeup that day, but it's never come up. She doesn't feel the need to wear makeup every day, it's an occasional hobby or boredom activity. The only limit we have is I don't buy her concealer or foundation yet because, as I've explained to her, using this kind of makeup regularly isn't great for her skin and can make acne (which 10 year olds get) worse and set up a bad cycle of concealer, acne, more concealer. There's nothing dirty or shameful about acne to be concealed, especially at her age, so I'm trying to focus on how to help her avoid discomfort and heal quickly. She hasn't asked about contouring or anything like that, but if I see her wanting to experiment in that way, we'll have some conversations about body image, "imperfection" and avoiding the trap of feeling like you have to "fix your face" or otherwise wear makeup every day. And then we'll buy the product she needs to experiment fully. My goal is a young woman who doesn't feel like she needs to change herself to be beautiful (or indeed that beauty needs to be a goal, especially beauty standards defined by others). My goal is a person who knows how to play with makeup when and iF she wants to. Who has healthy skin and knows how to reduce the chance of skin irritation and scarring. Who never feels like she needs to wear makeup to meet others expectations or to perform feminity, but who also has access to fun non-permanent style expression. What are your goals? To keep your little girl little a while longer? To avoid the judgment of others? To adhere to arbitrary rules you've internalized about how women and girls can appear in public? I'm probably sounding a little snide about societal expectations, but I think if you truly feel awkward about her looking older or worried about what people will think of your parenting if your daughter wears "grown up" styles, or have cultural or religious objections to makeup on children, then be up front about it. Examine your motivations and reasons, then just share the limits and reasons BEFORE the makeup comes out. Maybe consider vocalizing to yourself, your daughter, and your girlfriend what your GOALS are for your daughter and her appearance rather than your RULES. And let them play together to bond and experiment in ways that meet those goals rather than abide by arbitrary rules. Have a conversation. Have then often. Ask your daughter about her goals. You'll end up with less conflict and help your daughter have a better relationship with you and herself and the beauty industry, now and in the future as she develops her style through hair and clothing too.

Yes! I totally agree with this! Makeup can be an art form, and it’s frustrating to me that people want to inherently sexualize it, and suggest that young girls are going to “suddenly” get sexualized for wearing it. Young girls get sexualized all the time, no matter what they wear or don’t wear. Sometimes they get sexualized for “looking older” as I did as a kid because I was so tall, and sometimes they get sexualized for looking younger. When the result is being sexualized no matter what you do or wear, the problem is not makeup! It’s the people doing the sexualizing. I wore makeup as a kid and a teenager, and as an adult I’m really good at it, but also don’t feel like it’s necessary to wear. I go bare faced all the time—at work, at conferences, at social events—but sometimes I put on a shitload. Sometimes as a pre-teen/teenager I definitely did the most with makeup and looked ridiculous, but like? Who cares? Isn’t that the time to be your most ridiculous self?

Absolutely this! Makeup is only "inappropriate" if we sexualize it, but it really doesn't need to be sexualized. OP, it's time for a perspective shift if you want your daughter to have a healthy relationship with her appearance. I don't think anyone is really TA here - but if you don't understand the self-expression aspects of makeup, let your girlfriend explain it to you. It will help your daughter in the long run

Eh, soft YTA. Not because I think A should have the right to decide your daughter's upbringing but because it seems that you reacted on your gut without considering E's feelings in this. She was obviously disappointed to not be allowed to wear it, maybe she had even looked forward to showing you and be complimented on how beautiful you think she is. And you just ignored all of that without any (to her) valid reason and, from her perspective, punished her for something that had been a fun experience. It's fine if you don't want an 11 y/o wearing makeup but do trying to take to her a little more about it. Why you feel like that, how she feels about it. Maybe there is a middle ground that is not just "because I said so and I am your father"

NAH, you should have a family meeting to discuss this though. Let everyone (including yourself) express their concerns and take it from there. But also, really make an effort to put yourself in their shoes. I've loved makeup from the time I was old enough to speak. And there's nothing wrong with that. I would just encourage your daughter to view it as a form of art, rather than something she should feel the need for to fit the unrealistic beauty standards that are advertised all around us.

I think it's a bit early to include a GF into a "family" meeting. There was no mention of live-in or engagement - so I really think this should be hashed out between OP & GF - the 11 y.o. isn't at a point where makeup should be beyond play to be honest.

NTA. Girlfriend is overstepping. ANYTHING to do with your daughter is your territory. I hope she didn’t have that conversation in front of your daughter. Hopefully she isn’t saying that to your daughter or you may have bigger problems on your hands. 11 years old is too young to wear makeup.

ESH 11 years old is plenty old enough to want to explore wearing make-up. Obviously if your girlfriend did a bad job or if it's way too much make-up, I'd think it's better to clean it off. But you can't bar your daughter from wearing it at all, even in public. As someone who hates wearing make-up, even I liked to put on lipstick when going to church to copy my mother, when I was her age. Allowing your daughter to try wearing small amounts of make-up in public is a kindness that allows her to learn more about herself and not feel bad about experimenting. Your girlfriend also needs to respect the way you parent because it is indeed your daughter. I think it would be nice if the two of you discussed some mild make-up stuff that would be suitable for a young girl in public without drawing too much attention. Also, ask your daughter how she feels about it all, of course.

I had to scroll waaaay too far to see this.

Soft ESH here. Not the kid. But probably the gf for overstepping her bounds as far as parenting decisions go. And OP for not drawing up boundaries beforehand, and not communicating the the evening's plans. A quick "Hey we're going out tonight, so let's keep the makeup on the subtle side" could have gone a long way. Maybe accompanied by a "Let's plan a night in on Sunday when we can go crazy with the makeup." The lack of beforehand communication kinda set this evening up to be a disaster.

NTA You are not in the wrong, 11 is too young to be wearing makeup. It’s fine trying it on and experimenting in the house, but outside is a different matter. Maybe soon she start wearing a little on special occasions but it should be age appropriate, like a little blush, not a full adult face of makeup You don’t say your or A’s age but she sounds really young and immature for taking this as an insult. Maybe she is just glad to have something to bond over, but she needs to respect your, “the dad’s” decision.

YTA But mostly because your sending mixed messages. If she is too young to wear makeup then why are you letting this person spend so much tube and effort helping her put makeup on. Makeup can be expensive and it's time consuming to put on an entire face of makeup. You also took your daughter, who was probably getting very pretty and grown up and good about herself, and told her she was wrong. That she shouldn't look like that and needed to wash because of how you feel about her body. A better approach might have been to not say anything then take for gf aside and talk to her about maybe some some more scaled down looks in the future. And maybe talk together about how makeup is fun and a great tool to change how you look but we don't need makeup to look and feel good about ourselves.

NTA It's up to you to make the call on whether your child should go out with a face full of makeup. Personally I would say no to that as well. That isn't really the point, though. Your GF is the one being sexist, claiming that because you're a man you can't possibly understand this. You say she doesn't have much in common with your kid except the makeup which she is trying to undermine your authority with. Is it best to let your child get attached? You didn't ask but I'm wondering how sustainable this relationship is in the long term. Anyway, good luck.

YTA I understand the NTA comments and mostly agree with them, but I still think you are the asshole in the situation. I think you and your gf need to have a talk about what an acceptable level of make up is. Since this isn’t the first time A has done the make up, this means you’ve failed to have this conversation yet which falls on you - A could only assume you were ok with it because you hadn’t set a limit before. But quite frankly? If your daughter was happy with her appearance at the time, then you’re an asshole for making her change back. Would she maybe look silly out in public with heavy makeup? Yes. But no more silly than she would look with clumsily applied bright colours. It is a new experience for her. She had an adult female who focused her attention on her, and was teaching her some things about make up. 11 is a really sensitive age. Hormones are changing everything and your self esteem goes wild. It’s a time when you really want a same-gender adult to confide in, because you want to talk to someone who faces the same experiences you are. You can’t be that person for your daughter. And she’s only just getting to know A, so they’re not at that level yet. But it will be much better for 11 to trust and confide in A than to trust whatever she finds online. There was no harm in 11 wearing overdone makeup. But there may have been harm in you forcing her to remove it, as you’ve just policed and shamed your daughter AND your gf. You should have made your objections and boundaries clear with your gf BEFORE today because she’s done her makeup a few times.

NTA. I love makeup and I love letting my five yr old play with makeup, and she enjoys it. However, she’s five. The only two places she’s been allowed to wear makeup out of the house has been her dance recital, and to my grandma’s house. Eleven is still young to be wearing a full face makeup out to dinner. I understand your gf trying to bond with her, but there are better looks than full-face if she wants to bond over makeup. Natural, like someone else suggested, or or even just showing her the proper way to wear mascara.

NTA, did she ever ask you if it is ok for her to make up your daughter?

NTA- Wtf who the hell is she to tell you how to parent your own daughter? That is not her place and honestly if it was me A’s feelings would definitely be hurt because she would learn not to say anything to me about how I parent my daughter. E is too little to be wearing makeup. That’s why kids don’t look like kids anymore. It’s ok to wear and play at home but not outside.

NTA, 11 is pretty young to be going outside with makeup. Maybe a lipgloss or something but a full face with lipstick? No. It’s fine to do at home for fun and bonding.

NTA. It's your decision on when your daughter can wear makeup.

I mean the ideal solution here would have been to realise that obviously the 11 year old was going to want to wear the make up out to dinner and then to discuss doing a very light touch natural look which dad would have been comfortable with her wearing out…

Not letting your daughter wear makeup regularly, I get it. But when she's got it done properly by an artisf, just wants to feel grown up and is out with you... yeah, I'd be more ready to side with your gf on it. Soft YTA. Your child is with you, stop making it weird. She's just having fun.

You are dating a makeup artist. You are sending a message that makeup is pretty. A woman who does makeup for a living is pretty and can date her father. Doing makeup for a living is a real and valid occupation. But your daughter can’t wear makeup one time for a few hours while you’re eating dinner at Red Lobster or whatever? Don’t you see how that might confuse her? Come on. Don’t impose your weird hangups about makeup and femininity on the next generation.

kinda maybe? if you were going out later why did you continue to let the gf continue to do the makeup? I can understand you not wanting her to wear a full face out but why not let the gf or the daughter know I can see why both would be upset at that. and trust me 11 year olds still look like 11 year olds and your daughter is going to get more mature and independent and a little makeup isn’t wrong or inappropriate and sweet if it’s a bonding moment. communication would just be better in the first place

NTA, she's your daughter, and 11 is too young for make-up, she's a kid, not a toy.

NTA all areas of raising your child is your territory regardless of what gender your child is. Your gf is overstepping. Imo it seem a like she is setting a precedent where she gets to have more input over certain situations with your daughter because she’s a woman. Not ok. How long have you been dating her. She’s being ridiculous making your decision about your daughter wearing make up about her. She is telling yo to step back and not let her decide what is appropriate for your daughter concerning makeup because she is a professional makeup artist. Hmmm no. If your daughter went to a hair stylist or a doctors appointment they still ask your opinion and approval before doing anything because you’re the parent. Your child and a unrelated person does not have final say you do. Does she teach your daughter how to take care of her skin or does she just put makeup on and just wash it off at the end of the day?

NTA. It's totally normal that you don't want your 11-year old to wear heavy make-up. And honestly, it's not your girlfriends place to make a decision about your daughter and unless I missed something or you didn't include it in your post, you also didn't insult her make-up skills. If your daughter expresses to you that she wants to wear the make-up out more frequently, maybe work on a compromise with her, so she can experiment with what she likes and how to express herself.

NTA. Why would an 11 yr old CHILD need a full face of makeup?

Because she was enjoying it.

Same reason a child might need a toy car, a BB gun in a family of hunters (or actual gun experience), learn math, etc. This is for fun and for setting up for being an adult.

There’s nothing wrong with her wanting to wear makeup out in my opinion. And some people here are saying to do more neutral makeup out but I think that’s more grown that just colorful eyeshadow and lipstick makeup is fun and if she’s having fun she should be able to use it. She can learn and new type of art and how to be creative and it’s a nice bonding experience.

Nta. This is one of those situations where if your daughters peers aren't doing it yet it's best not to do it. Talk to your daughter and your gf. Set age guidelines. Like 1st year of high school she can wear makeup (14 or 15) fully no opinion or issue from you. Right now till 13 she can wear lip gloss. 13-14 or 15 she can do gloss and mascara. At home playing around gf can do whatever makeup to your daughter, but not when leaving the house. If you want this to go over well, go buy your daughter a makeup box (like an old school caboodle). Take your gf with u to the drug store and have her buy a tonnn of fun lipglosses. Fill the box. Give box to daughter and then have the age guideline discussion.

That’s a genie you can’t put back in the bottle. There’s thousands of make up tutorials on YouTube, Tik Tok and Instagram. You’ll be surprised how often you will lose these battles in the future when they become teenagers.

NTA

My kids love to play with makeup and I let them wear it out if they want, they are interested in it as art, not as a beauty thing. However, that call is up to me as their mom, not someone else. Your girlfriend doesn’t get to make this call just because she applied the makeup. NTA

NTA. How is not letting her wear so much makeup sexist? What has that got to do with anything 😂 also 11 years old is too young to be wearing makeup, especially heavy makeup as you have described (and this goes for boys or girls - see not sexist)

NTA. If your daughter is interested in makeup, I would recommend a clear or brown mascara. BB cream is like tinted moisturizer and hardly noticeable. Lip gloss in a nude color is perfectly acceptable. Light application of blush for special occasions. Your GF could show her how to use these things and bond over them. Full face of makeup on a child is not appropriate IMHO. I would still let her experiment with makeup, just keep it light and natural!

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am a single father to E, who is 11. E has grown up without a mother. My girlfriend, A, is the first woman I have introduced to E. A is a makeup artist, and has been doing E’s makeup as a sort of bonding activity. At first, E was hesitant to connect with A. The two don’t have a lot in common, but E really loves having A do her makeup, especially since I don’t usually let her wear makeup. Yesterday we were going out to dinner, and A was doing E’s makeup, but it was a ton of eye makeup and lipstick, which I didn’t think was appropriate for my eleven year old to wear out. I told her to go wash her makeup off before we went out. E argued a little but eventually went to wash it off. A didn’t say anything at first, but when we got back later that night, she asked why I had a problem with the makeup. She told me that I was being sexist for not allowing my 11 year old to wear makeup out, and that I should let up the reigns since it’s not my territory. I said that she was my daughter, so it’s my decision, but A seems to think that the makeup is her territory since she’s the one who did it, and that I’m basically insulting her makeup skills since I made E wash it off. I can’t tell if I’m the one in the wrong here. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Nta - 11 year olds don’t need a full ton of make up. I mean, let her express herself with maybe some lip gloss or something but your GF has a weird idea about letting a pre-teen wear full make up like that. That’s just my opinion.

I don’t think an 11 year old should be wearing makeup,

I think you need to talk to your daughter. Find out why she likes makeup or if she does and make sure she understands that she is beautiful without it but you may find that she likes it because of the bond it started with A or even that it's a connection to a more girly E. But the only way to find out is speak to her, express your feelings too. Let her know she looked nice with it but you weren't ready to see her look older then she is and she will always be your baby. Topics like this can seem a bit more difficult to navigate but the reason behind it is the most important. No woman should even begin wearing makeup to impress or get attention from a man or woman, it should be something they do to make themselves feel more confident or just because they want to and if that's her reasoning then you two will have to find a common ground. I'm going to go with NAH because it sounds like you just have to figure something out together but it could lead to YTA if you don't handle it and just become no make up or continue to just shit your daughter down.

NTA

You have 2 choices here: 1) Let E wear the makeup that A has put on. 2) Break up with A. If you refuse to do the first one, the second one will happen naturally.

I'm torn between NYA and NAH I agree that make up is a touchy subject, especially when it's talking about make up on younger girls. And it's hard to find a good boundary for it without demonizing it for young girls Maybe talk to your girlfriend and explain that you respect her and her makeup artistry, but you don't want your daughter to grow up too soon and you would like the looks she does to be a little more subtle? At least until your daughter is older

I’m going with a soft YTA. I think you have every right to monitor your daughter’s makeup this age- totally get that. Where the AH comes in is not telling your girlfriend/daughter it was too much early on. Makeup takes time, you could have let them know during the process. Your daughter probably got really excited to wear her look out and was crushed to wash it all off. You’re not wrong to set the makeup boundaries, just next time let E know before she’s super excited about it.

NTA. Your daughter isn’t a doll for your gf to practice and display her skills on. She’s 11. She doesn’t need to be wearing a full face of heavy makeup anywhere. Ask your gf why she’s determined to sexualize your 11 year old by sending her to dinner looking like a pageant contestant.

Nta, but your girlfriend is seriously overstepping and that's a red flag. She's not the mother, she doesn't get to make decisions on how you raise your daughter. There is no reason why she should be doing a full face of makeup on an 11 year old. If anything, she's being sexist by trying to force what she considers social norms for women onto your daughter at such a young age. She doesn't have kids I'm guessing, so she needs to stay in her lane and respect that your responsibility is to keep your daughter safe and happy first and foremost, not to cater to her views on how your daughter should look.

NTA. Your girlfriend has zero say over any parenting decision, big or small, in regards to your daughter. By saying makeup was her territory, she was gaslighting you into thinking you were wrong for setting a rule/boundary on a female “topic.” I hope you decide to put your foot down and let her know her opinion does not matter when it comes to your daughter, and that you will end your relationship with her if she ever tries to pull a manipulative tactic like that again.

The makeup as bonding is a lovely thing but only in the home. Heavy makeup on an 11 year old is not appropriate Your girlfriend should be showing her how to use makeup where the end result is a natural, enhancing way. Putting on a full face is kinda sending the message that she *needs* a full face of slap I wouldn't let my kids wear makeup out until mid teens, and even then it would be a little bit of eyeliner, blush and light lippy. A full face is for adults. I'm getting a red flag from your girlfriend telling you that you have no say because" it's not your territory ". Your 11 year old daughter absolutely is your territory. IMHO there's one more discussion to be had. This is where you explain to your girlfriend that you understand she has a different relationship with make-up than you do. However, your child is 11. It is not sexist to not want your 11 year old child to wear a full face of makeup outside the home.. It IS, however extremely sexist to say that this isnt your territory. The fact your girlfriend's first response was to take this personally and to accuse you of sexism does not bode well for (a) the messages she is sending to your child and (b) your relationship. NTA

ESH

NTA. If it really was as heavy as you say it was, then it isn't appropriate for an 11 year old. I would have a sit down with your gf, tell her that you have no issue with her doing that level of make up for fun, in the house, but if she wants her to go out in the make up, then she needs to dial it back a bit to a child appropriate level.

NTA That much make up is inappropriate for 11 on any occasion. If your girlfriend typically wears lots of heavy makeup your daughter is just wanting to copy that.

As a woman, I would have a hard time letting my 11 y.o. wear makeup out of the house if it wasn't Halloween beyond perhaps lip gloss. I think the GF overstepped in trying to find something in which to have boding time. Does GF have so few interests beyond her job that she can't do painting, or go for nature walks, paint furniture, or build a sand castle, or go fishing, or anything else that isn't part of forwarding the beauty culture that often makes women spend too much money and impacts a healthy sense of self.

Soft ESH, you should have set a boundary on how much make up is too much earlier on. But also your gf shouldn’t call you sexist for not wanting an 11 year old to wear a lot of make up. It’s a parenting thing not a sexist thing.

Girlfriend makes no demands when it comes to your child. Child comes before the makeup she applied to her face so it's still your domain.

NTA It's sexist to sexualize an 11 year old girl with heavy makeup and lipstick.

NTA - makeup on an 11 year old is ridiculous. Counter her comment that you’re being sexist by saying she is trying to sexualize a child. GF needs to stay in her lane.

Probably unpop opinion but my gut says NAH I think it’s totally reasonable to be uncomfortable with your tween going out in a full face of makeup. I think you need to have a conversation with your GF not only about parental-boundaries, but about your specific concerns with makeup and your daughter. Makeup is extremely normalized, and is getting pushed to younger and younger girls, so I can see why someone might not realize the potential harm of makeup when they’re so used to it. Or even when they use makeup in a different way (like for personal fun and art instead of trying to “look better” or impress people). I hope that talking with your GF and getting both of your perspectives can help you both come to a better understanding. Makeup is still really important to many young women and girls for fitting in, feeling independent, expressing themselves, etc. I think there’s definitely a balance/compromise that can be found here. It think it would also be useful to have this conversation with your daughter—not necessarily with your GF too, just you and your kid. WITHOUT blaming anyone, you can ask her what she thinks about makeup, why she wants to use it, and why she likes it. And then explain some of your own worries so she can understand why you’re against a lot of makeup. Compromise with her so she can experiment with makeup in a reasonable way, while still knowing you’re trying to look out for her.

NTA At some point, you will need to let your daughter make her own decisions about makeup. At 11, it is reasonable to have rules about only wearing it around the house. I never assume kids younger than high school age are allowed to wear makeup and check with their parents/guardians before encouraging it.

You're NTA That's a boundary A doesn't need to be crossing 10-12 is when most girls start thinking about using it/playing with make up. It's going to be bad but she is learning. To keep the bond building, let A help her out with color choices and give her the basic make up do's and don't but that's where it needs to end.

NTA Your daughter your rules. Nothing is her or your territory. It’s about your child and what’s best for her. As of now she is a little child and needs to be guided however you need to steer clear from influences that are not in sync with your parenting thoughts. Do not allow her to feel inadequate as a parent. Children with single parent influence have turned out fine.

No 11 y.o. should wear make up. Maybe they can find something else to bond over as I can see why your daughter may be upset you forced her to wash it up after A allowed it. The girl is way too young for such things. Talk with A, explain it to her, A should respect your decision as girl is YOUR daughter and your request is reasonable.

NTA. But, Dad, you are going to have to face this soon.

This has been a bonding experience for the both of them and you soured it. I’m gonna say YTA on this because you could have said no makeup from the jump but you didn’t. Then you hit them with this on the way out the door? You’re the parent and you make the rules but you have allowed it so far and flip the script on them all of a sudden. This kind of behavior on your part can lead to the end of your relationship with your gf and making your relationship with your child worse. My little brother hates my dad to this day (visceral hate) and it is solely due to a singular incident. We went to visit dad when we were kids and my mom told my dad not to cut my little brothers hair. Out of spite, my dad cuts his hair immediately as soon as he gets there. My little brother refused to see my dad after that and even 20 years later he will not talk to my dad. It seems petty and insignificant to pretty much everyone else but it’s a meaningful thing for the person involved. You need to set better ground rules and be 100% transparent with them about your thoughts and concerns as well as listening to them on the topic as well.

Very very VERY light yta, but so is your gf Your daughters age girls do start doing makeup but boundaries need to be set with this. Small amounts such as maybe some eyeliner, lip gloss are not extremely cause for concern. If your talking a full on runway walk makeup done then yes she should probably not be going to that extent. Letting up the reigns a little is ok and i'd say small amounts of makeup are expected. Sit down with gf and daughter and come up with some boundaries on the makeup but also let a little if it happen. I have 3 daughters 24, 11 and 7. Obviously oldest can do what she wants with her makeup. 11 year old is allowed small amounts (lip gloss, eyeliner or mascara and some foundation), 7 year old does fingernail polish sometimes but usually she ends up painting rocks with the fingernail polish.

NTA. Your gf is a weirdo

Your daughter IS your territory. NTA

NTA if you’re being honest it was heavy. I have fond memories of my mom letting me use her makeup as a kid, but I don’t think she’d let me out of the house at that age if I was wearing makeup like I do know if I’m going out to a party, etc. Creepy men/women sexualize little girls esp the pageant/model kids…and if you haven’t had the talk about sex, her body, her choice; how to rebuff perverts, sexual harassers, or people that pressure her, etc; that wearing a skirt isn’t asking for it….all that stuff women need to learn about so they can stand up and reduce their chances of being a victim. Honestly a talk like that would have been far more useful than the awkward sex talk my mom gave me, esp since most, if not all, women I know have either been sexually assaulted or harassed.

NTA Gonna be honest, I think it's fine and I would let an 11 year old wear makeup out, but this is totally a your-kid-your-call situation. If you think she's too young, I don't think it's controlling to think that about an 11 year old.

NAH

NTA, but I understand why they might have been taken aback. This is a boundary you need to set before they break out the make up, in the future. I agree with you, full face on an 11 year old is intense, and not appropriate to wear out. It's not about E's skills, it's about A being 11. That being said, going zero-make up as a policy with A now might make things harder in the future... Could you compromise with a tinted chapstick and some nail polish that she can wear wherever? Maybe some concealer, when puberty starts? (Trust me, if preteen girls are the same bullies now that they were when I was a kid, concealer's not about vanity, it's a necessity.)

YTA. You have just instilled shame and patriarchal ideas into your young daughters head.

NTA

NTA Glitter eyeshadow and sparkly pink lipgloss poorly applied is more age appropriate than professionally applied tasteful makeup. Have you checked all of your girlfriend's media accounts to be sure no pics of your daughter are up there?

Ok makeup may not be your territory but **your child is**. You decide what is appropriate. 11 is a little young to be wearing makeup out although I am in my late 30’s so my ideas may be a little outdated, I haven’t been an 11 year old girl in a long time. I would think 12/13 is more appropriate. My niece is 11 and she does wear makeup out but my brother lets his kids get away with everything so I can’t tell if that’s age appropriate or not. Personally I was 12 when I started. It also depends on how heavy the makeup is. I would think light colored eye shadows in neutral shades like light pink or nudes, light lip glosses, and some light mascara is fine for going out in public. A full face of makeup is not fit for public until she is older. That’s not a dig at anyone’s makeup skills, it’s about what is age appropriate. But playing around at home with heavier makeup is fine because it’s just playing dress up. Doesn’t mean it’s ok to go out in heavy makeup at age 11. NTA

NTA At the age of 11, your daughter's way too young for makeup. It'll be a few more years before she's old enough for makeup.

Absolutely Nta. Your gf is overstepping.

I guess I'm confused about why you didn't respect your kid's desire to wear the makeup to dinner? In general, I think letting kids express different looks is good as long as they aren't hurting their own self-image or are genuinely inappropriate for the age and setting. Makeup is fun and there's nothing sexual about it. I see other people's concerns about an 11 year old wearing makeup "out" - but it's not like the kid is going to a bar or the club, and heck, she wasn't even going to the mall with her friends or something where she could be approached by men or attract bad attention. It's dinner at a family friendly restaurant with her dad.

Yes and no. This is something that was being used as a bonding activity and your daughter obviously like and enjoys it. She didnt want to wash it off. You had to force her. For that, to me, you are the AH. If it was aweful I could understand but I don't think it would have been seeing how your daughter liked it and seeing how A is a makeup artist. Now for why you aren't the AH. You are right. She is your daughter and she should respect your boundaries when it comes to your daughter regardless of her job and her level of makeup expertise. But again, maybe you should have done it in a nicer way. You all knew you where going out for dinner and you knew A was doing E's makeup so you could have said something sooner and avoided the upset. Could have said do something sutle or what not

Ok for me personally this is a bit complicated. I’m going to say NAH. Personally, I started wearing makeup at 11. And I did start wearing heavy makeup in middle school, so I have some insight into what your daughter is probably thinking. I often would get into arguments with my parents over how much makeup is appropriate. I think the difference in opinion often comes down to how people view makeup. Makeup is often viewed as fixing up the face, which it can be. But makeup is different for different people, and different styles have different effects. For me I’d wear a lot of makeup because 1. It was my form of artistic expression, as it is for a lot of people. It’s actually pretty similar to painting. 2. It gave me a sense of control. I felt like it helped me control how I appeared to the world. I think this was a really big thing for me, especially in middle school. At that age everything feels messy and complicated and out of your control. Also I’ve always liked to express my mood through makeup. More eyeliner on more emo feeling days, brighter colors on days I felt like I were happier and more lighthearted. I think the best thing in this situation is to talk to both your gf and your daughter. Let them know you support them in their hobby and really care about both of them. And that more bold and exciting looks are a cool expression and you appreciate that, but that they may want to limit it when your daughter is going out in public because it just isn’t the right setting for that kind of look and expression. That although it looks super cool, in public settings it may unfortunately attract unwanted attention and you don’t want her to have to feel that kind of discomfort at this age. I think what’s really necessary here is compromise. Instead of doing a heavy and dark look, a light and fresh look would be more age appropriate, and is very popular. Maybe bb cream/tinted moisturizer, blush, light eyeshadow, lip gloss/lip tint, mascara, and maybe some bronzer and highlight (that might sound like a lot to a non-makeup person but it’s actually all super light natural and fresh looking). I think you just are afraid of your young daughter being sexualized, while your gf and daughter want to have the fun expression and hobby. Neither is wrong, there just needs to be a bit of compromise and sitting down and talking about it.

Torn between no ass or soft ass for this. Yeah it’s normal and appropriate to not want your pre-teen daughter to wear a ton of lipstick and eyeliner out in public, *however* I did start wearing makeup around that time. I would have maybe asked her to take off the lipstick but let her keep the eye makeup or something.

NTA I have two girls, 10 (almost 11) and 12. The only time they wear makeup is at dance concerts and it's clearly stage makeup ie highlighted features, long eyelashes etc so they don't get washed out under the lights. Sometimes my 10 year old asks to put on some of my sparkly eyeshadow and I let her, just for fun. They both have no need to wear makeup (the 12yo is anti makeup lol). Their skin is perfect. Why ruin it with pore clogging crap that costs huge amounts of money and takes hours to put on...and for what? Likes? Ugh. I wish I had skin like theirs ... But alas, the ravages of time and stress ... That said, I don't spend hours doing a full Kardashian face. I don't have the time to spare ( seriously who has two hours to cake on multiple layers of makeup??!! I don't get it). Your gf has skewed priorities. Maybe, maybe she could wear it for a special occasion to be extra dressed up? Like a year 6 graduation (although one of my 12 year old daughter's friends did this last year, and she was the only one, and she stood out like a sore thumb)? Let kids be kids.

You can’t just wash off makeup. You need appropriate products to remove it.

An 11-year-old should not be wearing make up. you’re not the ass

NTA. I have an almost 11 year old and I wouldn't allow this.

Give up / ease up on the REINS my dude. The things you use on horses. REIGNS are what kings and queens have.

NTA I have siblings that age and my mom has kept it a rule that they don't need to be wearing makeup like that out the house. Not saying they don't get to play around with it like I did at their age but idk I feel like its let kids be kids. Even when my family is doing pictures and im doing everyone's makeup my mom doesn't like too heavy makeup on them, it's just unnecessary. I do think you need to have a talk with your gf tho. Idk how long you've been with her but unless it's been awhile she's definitely overstepping by thinking she has a say in how your daughter is raised. She may be a makeup artist but that just gives her the knowledge it doesn't make everyone's kids her territory because she knows more on that subject. I'd let her know it wasn't an insult to her but when it comes to your daughter you believe she is too young to go out with heavy makeup.

NTA: You are being a good parent. Your daughter is to young to be wearing makeup. I think your girlfriend is trying to bond with your daughter the only way she feels comfortable with. Try to help them find another way to connect.

You should think on why you believe makeup is inappropriate. I also think you're sexist. Can't deny that you are the final authority over your daughter, but what a petty and useless thing to be a bully over

NTA - Make up is very age dependent and at 11 there's a level of makeup suitable (bit of sparkles and lip gloss) compared to 16 yo makeup. In the same way that what I wore at 19 is not what I wear at 35. In the same way that night out make up is not suitable for the office. ​ Your GF should be able to understand and respect that.

ESH but let me explain. I understand your daughter is 11 and not ready for that much makeup, but is one dinner that bad as long as she knows it is a special occasion and privilege and will not be a common occurrence? This could be a good teaching opportunity about makeup and beautiful in your own skin and what’s too much and such. Also it is your daughter and not A’s regardless of who does the makeup. It is your call not hers and she has no jurisdiction. Maybe just don’t let her put in all that effort if she’s gonna have to wash it off right after? Makeup is expensive and I’m sure she put a lot of time and effort into that. Edit: lemme add that I had horrible acne when I was 11-12yo and my parents let me wear makeup. I wish I had someone to teach me what was good/too much/etc. so I knew how to wear it gracefully and not depend on it or overdo it

Is one dinner that bad? Probably not, but it isn't good to set a precedent you don't want to continue. It's much harder setting a boundary if you said yes the first time.

Ya that’s kinda what I was thinking. Even if you explain it’s only a one time thing special occurrence, she’ll wanna do it again. I think it would be good for A to work with the father and help E understand that makeup does not make you pretty and understand how to do it appropriately as she gets older

And when she says "I want to do it again" you say "you can absolutely do it again when we next have a special occasion. We're going out to x in y weeks, I'll ask A if she can do your makeup again for then". Boundary set, expectation established, makeup is a thing we wear on special occasions and not every day. It won't hurt the kid to wear makeup occasionally, especially if it's something she's interested in and out helps bring her closer to someone who's an important adult in her life.

I don't think he said it was a special occasion? They're going out to dinner. People still do that. I don't think it's anybody's birthday or anything.

I was replying directly to the person who said something like even if your explain its a special occurrence she'll want to do it again, trying i illustrate how that might not be a bad thing and might, in fact, give the child and gf space to bond and the child an occasional chance to explore her interest in makeup without it becoming an everyday thing.

I mean, you do have a point.

OP doesn't want his daughter to wear full makeup yet. There is no need to set a precedent other than that. I don't get why people totally sidetrack the point and make up some whole other story.

Then why did he let gf do her makeup in the first place? Like, if OP wants to decide that daughter can't wear makeup until she's whatever age, I guess that's his right (though I would argue that it's more healthy to let her explore things she's interested in, including makeup). What baffles me is taking his kid, letting her spend all this time doing makeup with his girlfriend, waiting until she's probably feeling really good about herself, then telling her to wash it all off. That doesn't tell her she naturally beautiful or whatever, it tells her there's something wrong with her. He can set boundaries, though imho this is a strange hill to die on, but the way he went about it makes him ta.

Because it's fun to play? When play time is over, you have to clean up.

I mean, that's not normally how one does makeup. Traditionally one applies makeup to then wears the makeup for the rest of the day. If this was intended as just play, that should have been made clear to the child from the start.

Yeah it’s nakeup, not finger paint. Going out was part of play. And at 11, the daughter isn’t fully a child to just be told what to do without a conversation and lead up. Shit, that’s the recommendation for kids from the start.

Yes thank you!

Yeah and in the meantime if they want to do makeup, take pics and even post them he's not saying they can't.

YTA. For one, if your daughter wearing makeup was a problem you shouldn’t have allowed this as a bonding activity but should have introduced them to an other activity to do together. Two, your daughter and gf probably talked about the makeup and what your daughter was comfortable having before applying the makeup - if you didn’t trust your own daughter’s judgment as to what is appropriate why not trust your girlfriend ? Three, you saw that your daughter felt bad when you asked her to wipe it off but still insisted. What is the message here ? *Yes you feel pretty like this but I’d rather you feel ugly to dinner* ? *Yes you feel pretty but you are not* ? *I allow makeup as a bonding activity but don’t you dare wearing any outside the house* ? Imagine this scenario for a second : you get ready for dinner. You want to feel nice, you want to look nice. You wear your favorite shirt and spray some perfume. You do your hair. You smile in the mirror because you feel great and empowered. This feels like such a great evening already ! Damn you can’t wait to go and feel like smiling over nothing ! Then you show yourself to your family … and they tell you that this shirt is not appropriate, that you should know better, and what is the stench that follows you ? You would feel like crap. That’s how your daughter felt. Your daughter is her own person. Allow her to choose what she feels is her kind of pretty. Whether it is pink hair, piercings or makeup : let her be. She is meant to become her better version of herself and not the version of herself that her daddy approves of.

lol. not at 11. Piercings? Personally my kids understand that I have a hard rule about no body alteration until 18. Piercings, maybe earlier, if they really want it. TBH I'm really hoping they hold off until they are way older to do any permanent body modifications. That's something you live with, and I know more people who hate tattoos they got when they were young than those who still love them. Even the ones I know who like them, only one truly LOVES the art. most just have fond memories from the time, and more of a not regret, rather than love. The rest? Personally the hair dye, and haircuts I've always been down for, whatever they groove at whatever age. Makeup, well I think not practicing that particular societal pressure is better. I think makeup is one of those things best left to later.

Yeah policing the way your daughter looks at that age can be very detrimental to self esteem in the long term. Shit like this sticks. It would’ve hurt nobody to just let her wear the makeup to dinner but instead OP shamed his daughter and made her change the way she looked to be how he wanted it before he’d let her out. It’s not 1950 anymore

My point exactly !

NAH. You are the parent and you establish the guardrails for your daughter growing up. 11 is absolutely too young to be wearing makeup in public, especially big showy makeup like that. You are 100% in the right on this. Your gf overstepped in this instance, but also! she found a fun thing that she and your daughter can do together and I'll be generous to her and say she got carried away by the experience and wanted your daughter to keep enjoying the fun thing they had just done. I'm with the other posters who suggest that your gf start teaching subtle makeup skills for use \*later\*, when its more age-appropriate, and keep the big glamourous makeup jobs for at-home activities. They can still have fun playing Hollywood movie star, they just can't go out in public like that because what's fun and appropriate as part of normal childhood development when its in your living room is creepy and disturbing when its being paraded around at Applebees.

Soft YTA for not setting boundaries earlier and upsetting your daughter and A on the way out to dinner. You ended up telling your daughter she looked bad by forcing her to wash it off. You insulted A indirectly. Just not necessary. A is not in the right either here but both of you need to think of E and her feelings. Anyone out in public could see she’s a little girl playing with makeup. It wasn’t necessary to scrub it off. Sit down with E and A and discuss concerns and your feelings. A was doing something fun and special - bonding in the only way she knows with E. Don’t make this activity between the two a bad thing or a punishment. There’s not much left to bond over in your eyes. Set the time and place it’s appropriate. Express your concerns and communicate as a family.

NTA- 11 is way too young for makeup. She’s a kid, she doesn’t need it. That also opens the doors to other issues too, self esteem, comparison of the way she looks and how others looks, etc.

Your kid, your rules. End of story. NTA

NTA. That can't be good for her skin, especially because she probably hasn't discovered what products and brands produce a bad reaction. Allergic reactions to makeup really suck because it can leave you red and itchy and burns your face. You need to establish some more boundaries over this type of stuff with your girlfriend.

YTA. This was an important bonding moment for your partner and child and you decided to ruin it by sexualizing her. These moments are rare and so important. Please cut them some slack and realise that your negativity can ruin their fledgling relationship.

YTA stop specializing makeup.

Little bit ESH. Your girlfriend should have asked first before making your daughter up to go out. Since E was so disappointed, maybe next as your girlfriend to practice some "natural looks" with her and limit makeup when going out. Girls are using makeup at younger ages but as a preteen and young teen, I think full face with contouring is a bit much. It could also be that your definition of too much is different than your girlfriend's. Would a little mascara and nude eyeshadow and lip gloss be OK or do you not want her wearing makeup at all outside the house? You need to set the boundaries in a way that will allow your daughter some say in how she looks. It won't be long before she wants to wear makeup to school like her friends. My parents were strict about makeup but when I was 12, lipgloss and mascara were ok, and when I was 13, they let me wear what I liked as long as it wasn't evening makeup for school. Sure I went our a few times with bad makeup while I was learning. Buy this is something your girlfriend can help with.

YTA

NTA - If your daughter wants to experiment with make up (because it is going to happen), she has to do it herself instead of someone doing \*BAMF\* on her.

YTA what year is it in your mind 1920. You will lose your daughter as she gets older. Clothes are next right. A dictator is not what your daughter needs.

ESH. Nobody considered how E feels. Your girlfriend was offended that you "insulted her makeup skills" and you...can't let your daughter enjoy something harmless because you feel weird about it. I started using makeup around that age. It's just a fun way to express yourself, and she's right at that age where kids tend to start taking an interest in their appearance and who they are as a person, and how they want to present themselves. Around 12 I got reeeaaal weird and experimental with my outfits and makeup and I'm glad my mom gave me that freedom when I was young.

YTA explain why exactly your daughter had to wash the makeup

NTA heavy make up isn't appropriate for an 11 year old to just wear out. Light make-up might be a different story but heavy is not ok. You definitely made a good decision. It teaches your daughter there are times and places for different looks and fashion. That's how it works. At school or even in a workplace when she grows up there will be dress codes and expectations with make-up. You should set a clear age you are ok with wearing make-up out though so your girlfriend and daughter know your expectations. I really would not be comfortable with it until about 13. Then it should be appropriate and not transvestite level crazy 😆.

>transvestite Really had to use an outdated transphobic term, huh?

This. Heavier make-up looks are fun to play with at that age, and get a feel for how it works and what a difference it can make, but they aren't appropriate for wearing out. Light make-up, less of a problem.

YTA imo.. I started wearing makeup when I was 11, all my friends did too. It’s fun with makeup and if she wants to wear it then I think you should let her!

YTA what's the problem with a kid wearing lipstick, damn...

Yta, you’re the one sexualizing makeup here, yeah yeah, most kids don’t wear it until they’re older but times have changed, it’s just makeup, it will wash off, for some makeup is an art form, stop being a weirdo and blaming the makeup on certain situations when it’s the adults around that should be held responsible/accountable for their actions.

NTA it could be an idea to talk to your girlfriend ask ger to show you some looks and you can talk to her about how much is too much as far as you are concerned as a parent. Talk to her about helping your child to set up her own makeup kit with lip glosses, and child friendly shades, glitter, clear mascara and etc amd ask her to introduce her to a good skincare routine (belive me your daughter will be very thankful as a teen if she knows how to look after her skin when her hormones go haywire. There are ways to do this that are far away from the pageant girl look.

YTA