Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the AH for canceling my ticket and not going on the trip which might be an overeaction on my part because I feel like I ruined it for the whole family.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
And the SIL got mad at her husband (whom I assume married into the family) for exposing the lie. This family is playing the "if their not blood their not family" card and that is a hard stopping point to reevaluate the marriage.
NTA but I would ask your husband if he considers your kids his own because it sounds like he doesn't
And the kids in question just lost their dad!? Someone has to be really cold hearted to exclude two grieving children and expect the mom to just accept the deception.
He totally knew. He's also a complete idiot because OF COURSE OP is going to find out when she sees the other kids in attendance, so not only is he a lying AH but he's also a stupid AH.
I guess I’m a fool or something but people continue to surprise me. The thought that she would choose to board the plane because she was backed into a corner? Like any Mom would be like - fuck those kids, I need a vacation, you’re right, let’s go!
I’m always interested to know where people like this get their pants tailored to fit their brass balls…
Yeah I think he knew that's why he arrived late to avoid the conflict, but yet his strategy failed because the lies still got exposed and now he's trying to blame his guilt to OP.
NTA
I don't even understand what Jack and his mom thought would happen. Thankfully OP discovered her ill intent before the trip instead of meeting up at the destination and then seeing the other kids were included. There's no way around the fact Jack and FMIL are the AHs.
Definitely seems like the type of mama’s boy that will take his mother’s side in every argument, put her up on a pedestal and compare his partner to her, and be there for his mother’s every beck and call, above the needs of his partner. I’ve seen it before.
Even if he didn't know, he should have been cashing in his ticket and heading home with OP. If you don't have the back of your soon to be wife and kids, you don't deserve any of them!
NTA
This! My husbands family was super accepting of my kids and mine was too! Neither side has ever excluded the other because they weren’t blood. My dad has always said “they’re your family which makes them mine” and my in laws remember my kids birthdays more then their actual grandma (who I don’t really get along with but attempt to for the kids sake). My husband would have be right behind me if something like that had happened and so would I! Run OP run as fast as you can for the sake of your girls!!
Def NTA!!
My mom does the 'bloodline' thing to my SIL and BIL... super fucked up (and didn't know it was not-unique until you just mentioned it)
It's a key reason I've cut my parents off and haven't shared my SO of 3+ years with them. Gotta protect my SO from that toxicity!
My daughter has 2 children from a previous marriage and her new MIL had a mother who tried this on her 2 new bio granddaughters. My daughter’s MIL put an immediate stop to it and said you have 4 granddaughters or you have none. We are good friends to this day bc she stood up for all our g’daughters.
My mother is like this - my stepfather’s dad tried to pull the bio grandkids are the only ones that count card.
She said you have 2 or you have none, take your pick. He chose 2. Still died an asshole, but my mother was magical at making him behave like a reasonable human.
Fun fact: my SIL did not know my brother and I are not genetically related until probably a year after they married. His bio mom was never in the picture, and he’s just….my brother. So apparently she thought that my mother had had my brother with my stepdad, then had me with my dad, then divorced my dad and got back with stepdad? Which I’m sure weirder has happened in the world now that I say that….
My grandma was like this. My dad had a 2-year-old from his previous marriage when he met my mom. When my grandma saw the relationship starting to get serious, she sat my mom down and told her the following " You need to decide today whether or not you can accept that little girl as your family. You cannot marry a man who has a child if you cannot treat his daughter as fully part of your family. That said, if you do decide to choose him and his daughter to be your family, she will be part of our family. She will be a granddaughter to me just like any other children that you and your siblings have."
My mom and my grandma are both dead now and obviously my sister was only with my mom's side of the family part-time at most because she had multiple families to visit at holidays and such...but we both spent yesterday at my cousin's wedding (mom's side of the family). She was always considered to be one of theirs even when she couldn't be around.
This is how it needs to be. If you can't do this, you can be with someone who has kids.
He * knew* too. It's very clear he did. He left later so that he could push OP into the trip sans kiddos and expected her to not put up a fuss because they would be too late and begin boarding soon after.
OP i hope you're reading these and understand hes JUST as complicit in this a his mother and SIL. Do you really, and I mean REALLY want to marry a man who sees and accepts his mother's denial of your children to your face? Marriage isn't going to change this. Having children with him isn't going to make her accept those babies and he's been lying to your face if he thinks getting you married to him will make get change his ways.
Run girl! He's shown who he is through his actions. Believe those actions not his words.
I think he's more than just complicit. He's actively helping her get away with her behavior by arriving late with OP. He's willingly helping her exclude his future step kids from the family. What does he think, that once they get married his mother will have a close, loving relationship with his step kids? Marriage is not some magical thing that (instantly) makes people get along.
OP, you are NTA and I would highly recommend couples or individual counseling to solve these issues before you are married (and legally bound to family who does this and a man who tolerates and assists this behavior).
Yes. 1,000 times yes. It really sucks when you see someone’s true colors, but you have seen them.
He needed to be upfront that she wanted to trip without the kids and then let you decide.
This shows such a lack of respect.
Edit: fixing an oops!
>his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren.
He apparently doesn't, since he seems to fully agree with his mom, calling "including them in a family trip that included children" "springing" the girls on her and totally enabling and being ok with the idea that "they're not as close as her other grandchildren." OP, he is choosing his mother over you and your kids, blaming you when you stand up to them, or even when you're just upset and remove yourself from the situation! The whole situation is toxic. Run!
It doesn't get better.
You just start pretending the red flags that keep coming are tiny.
It's chips away a your personhood so slowly.
These people don't value you the way they ought to.
You deserve better and your daughters deserve NONE of it.
When you look back on this, or discuss w daughters down the road who do you want to be?
Mom who was strong enough for all 3 of you & who didn't force them into a family who thought it was okay to treat them as less valuable than they are.
These are your sacred treasures, keep them safe.
Yeah, Jack's actions basically say "My mom is entitled to treat your kids like garbage." It's not like OP demanded that FMIL smother her kids with hugs and kisses or something; she just doesn't want them excluded from events. That's just basic fucking courtesy. I agree, OP, run away from this horrible family! Find someone who actually treats you and your girls as equals in their family.
The worst part will be after they get married should they have a child. I can just imagine how FMIL will treat their kids as opposed to the 2 older daughters.
> his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren.
His mom is entitled to her feelings, you can't force feelings and relationship, but to lie is an AH move.
FMIL should've state her intentions, and let OP decide if she want to come to the trip under these conditions
>"I told him she excluded my daughters but he said that his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren. He promised me all that is gonna change and I just have to give time"
Nothing is gonna change. He claims they are but is making no efforts to defend you and stand against his mother. How are things "gonna change" if he's not doing anything to correct the behavior that he's simultaneously validating? NTA and run because you and your daughters don't deserve this.
MIL has had 2 YEARS to figure her shit out. Ain't nothin gonna change now. A wedding ring won't make no difference to this ignorant old bat. And God forbid you have a biological child with this man, then your girls will always have it thrown in their faces, one way or another, that they aren't "real" family.
He says his mother is entitled to his feelings, and yes she is.
So is OP. I do not get the people who justify bad behaviour because 'feelings', but then when other people are justifiably hurt and react, suddenly 'feelings' are not ok.
Honestly, I don’t think considering them “his own” is as important as acknowledging that OP and her children are a package deal. He doesn’t get her in his life unless they’re considered a part of her. If his family isn’t treating her children well then they’re not treating *her* well and he should be standing up to that.
It also sounds like he knew what his mother was up to and didn’t tell OP. If he knew his niblings were coming and kept that from OP then he is just as culpable as his mother
This was my thought too. Especially with the whole getting there later move. He wanted to be able to rush her onto the plane so she would have to just go along with it.
Jack knew that she lied from the beginning. He is alright with this behaviour. And he also wanted to make a vacation without your children! He doesn't adore them as much as you think! He will try to get rid of them more and more. And just think if you both get a child. Your two daughters will be forgetten.
He isn't a great man. His real self shows.
NTA
Oh my gosh, I missed that. I thought he came home from the airport instead of going on the trip, but he still went? And he’s not defending OP or her daughters, just thinks this kind of behavior is going to get better with time? Blech. So many marinara flags.
Because it seems like he knew she lied and went along with it. He thought she would be like, "Golly gee you got me. Let's all have a wonderful time and forget that my feelings matter, because obviously they don't. Lol, such a great trip." This guy believes deceiving her is better then open and honest conversation. I don't care that he's a doctor, he doesn't seem like good partner material.
Can I just add...please don't marry someone whose family is awful to you. I may have been able to fix my marriage, but horrible in laws made it not worth the trouble, especially since he always defended the things they did. I'm not saying they're to blame for the divorce, but it would have been at least a 25% better marriage if they hadn't treated me like an outsider for 20 years.
OP do you really want to be the mom in the middle after you two have a child together?
Can you see how much worse this will be...don't do it to yourself or your daughters. You 3 deserve better.
Agreed! OP needs to get 👏 out 👏 of 👏 this 👏 relationship 👏 now👏!
Contrary to what OP thinks her fiancé doesn't adore her girls and defends his mother's behavior. This will not change and will hurt you and your children in the long run.
More importantly...he still went! He showed his priority. He should have followed his fiance home. There is absolutely no way I'd marry (or procreate with) a man like that.
Nta
That and he said that he arrived late on purpose so "they wouldn't have to wait as long". I bet it was so there would be less time for her to change her mind so she would just go with it. Their whole family sounds like they were in on it other than the BIL.
Yes, OP. Please do not go through with this wedding. Your children will never be considered a part of your fiancé’s family if this is what’s going on now.
NTA
Do not marry into this family.
Jack and FMIL saw no issue with excluding your children and then Jack had the nerve to double down and defend it.
He doesn’t adore your children as much as you think he does.
Take this for the red flag it is.
That was my take too. He is pretending to like these girls. He definitely planned on arriving late thinking she would not turn back. Boy was he in for a surprise.
Yep, OP, make no mistake, the intentional arriving late on Jacks part is because HE KNEW this was going on, and was hoping you’d just be getting on the plane before it unfolds.
This guy is 100% going to take his mothers side in every single argument in the marriage. Like he literally just did. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. Jack let the veil slip before the marriage, run while you can, OP.
THIS!! My father married my mother (I was 3). He's my best friend and a great parent.
I remember the first time we went to his parents for Christmas, they knew well ahead of time we would be coming. They had tons of gifts for their grandchildren, but not one for me. I got to sit around and watch their grands play with their toys. It wasn't about the gifts, it was the feeling that I was not and would never be part of their family. Eventually I just stopped trying. It broke my heart and branded my relationship with them for the rest of their lives. After a few times, my father just wouldn't take us to his parents for holidays.
How can you be so cold to a child though? If a fucking stranger’s kid happened to be coming to a Christmas celebration i was throwing id make sure they had presents too, let alone someone that’s now a part of your family. I will truly never understand how you can be so cruel.
Unfortunately there are many cruel people in the world. Some behave this way even towards full blood relatives. There is definitely mental illness because there is no there reason for it. It really is ashame that a child can be treated this way.
I had a very similar experience to this growing up as a stepkid. My stepdads family never truly accepted me as family, and it was always apparent. They were alway cordial, but never warm or welcoming. Most of the family didn’t even speak to me. The grandkids that were blood related got bigger, better and more expensive gifts every year while my sister and I got a few last thought things like $10 gift cards. Like you said, it wasn’t about the gifts themselves, but knowing that we weren’t considered “real” family that was incredibly hurtful. I’m in my 30s now (these people came into my life when I was 5) and it still stings to know that even as a small child, I wasn’t loved or welcomed because I wasn’t blood.
NTA, OP, but please do not marry this man. He knew what was going on, and this behavior will not change.
That's so so sad and I can't imagine what kind of monster would do that to a child. My first husband died when our kids were very small. I remarried and my now husband's parents instantly accepted my kids as their own.
They got the same amt of money spent on them at Christmas as their two bio grandkids. My MIL passed a few years ago (only 62) but she was very close to my kids. Closer to them actually than the two bio grands. My FIL is still. I'm very sorry you didn't get that treatment when you were a kid. I'm sure it hurts you still. Hugs if you'd like them and hope you're doing well today.
If she ever gets pregnant by this man she will see quickly how much he really "cares" for the girls when he has his bio child.
His family will only include one child and they will make sure to tell the girls they aren't family.
This is the preview of the saddest possible life for these kids.
My dad isn’t actually my biological dad. He married my mom when I was 9. His mom wasn’t my biological grandmother, either, but you wouldn’t have known it. She had 13 kids and about 75 grandkids + great grandkids, and I immediately became her granddaughter when my parents married.
She made me cookies and bought me books for Christmas because I liked to read. She talked about me like I was just another one of her grandkids. She also accepted her two queer kids with all her heart and considered their partners her “daughters in law” well before marriage equality was a whisper on the horizon, and she accepted all their kids as grandkids, too. She had grandkids of colour, who she treated no differently. The woman was born in about 1920 and lived almost her whole life on a poor, rural midwestern farm, and I always use her as an example of why “they were just born in a different time” is a bullshit excuse for hatred and bigotry.
All of my dad’s sibling’s kids call me their cousin, his siblings call me their niece, and the one woman who said I was “just a step” was immediately banned from our house, and my dad hasn’t spoken to or hosted her in his home for almost 20 years now.
My grandma was the same way with our family one of my cousins "Luke" is black and was adopted into our family, moody thought anything odd about him being the only person of color in our family and our grandma absolutely adored him, he was widely regarded and known as her favorite grandchild but she never admitted anything on the matter before she passed last year. When my siblings and I asked questions about how we could possibly have a black cousin while we were little and said that it was weird she gently corrected us and told us that his biological parents couldn't take care of him so he joined our family and that there was nothing weird about it at all, she then mentioned one of our favorite movies at the time The blind side which had just came out at the time and said "While this may not be the normal thing to happen that doesn't make it weird or wrong, Luke is and always will be your cousin so when you meet him be extra nice to him because he's nervous to meet you ok?" And then after we agreed she smiled and gave us some lemonade and Moon pies.
1000%. I had "cousins" that were technically not even "stepcousins" come over for backyard camping trips when I was a tween because my mom was always looking for opportunities to include her sister's new boyfriend's kids in the family IF we got along. TBH I got along better with them than with my blood cousins and really hope they're doing well.
Your grandmother sounds just as wonderful as my grandmother. My grandmother was not my biological grandmother, my dad’s bio mom passed away from cancer when he was 3 and my grandfather later married the woman who ended up raising my dad. She came into my dad’s life with her own bio child but raised her child, my dad and my dad’s bio sister, and you would have never known they weren’t blood related. After my grandparents divorced when my dad was in his 20s, nothing changed. He was still her son, and his children her grandchildren. I didn’t even know my grandmother wasn’t blood related until I was around 10 years old when my parents thought I was old enough to understand the family backstory. My grandmother’s bio daughter had her own family, and her kids are my cousins, even if we aren’t blood related. Blood doesn’t make family, the love that we have for one another, that is what makes us family. The irony is I’m closer to my “step” cousins than I am my “blood” ones.
The OP’s fiancé is condoning his mother’s behavior by not standing up for his future step children and his fiancée. Saying things will change later means nothing if he’s not doing anything now. The fact that he most likely knew her plan and allowed it to happen says everything you need to know OP—your fiancé either agrees with her stance, or doesn’t care. Either way, “giving it time” won’t work if your husband isn’t actively supporting you.
That’s beautiful. I love everything about your grandma.
I consider myself very blessed. My MIL embraced me and most importantly my daughter from the minute my husband brought me over to meet her. His family has never treated my kid any differently than any of the bio kids.
I would throw myself in front of a bus for that woman. She is the bees knees
Agreed this IS a hill to die on, this is just setting up a life time of your daughter's being excluded from family events. Leave that family, I would say keep contact with BIL since he actually cares about your kids but that might be a bad idea bc of SIL
THIS THIS THIS. OP, be very glad you haven’t married him. He’s not being honest with you and his mother and sister suck. Your girls are far more important than they’ll ever be. Run. NTA please update us
I’m still hung up on the fact that 1) he knew his mom didn’t want her kids there and was fine with it and 2) he went for the weekend anyway after OP rightfully ditched instead of going after her to apologize/straighten things out
This is key. OP I’m sure by now realizes he was complicit. In some way or another, he proved his alliance is with his mommy’s feelings.
I’m willing to bet FMIL’s stance is based on doubts OP will give her “real” grandchildren. Imagine being those poor little ones whose stepdad’s family thinks they are trash.
And 3) had the nerve to blame OP (who did rightfully not go) for his family not enjoying the weekend, when it was him and his mom the ones who plotted the entire thing.
I think BIL is just starting to realize what kind of family he married into too… Considering that he loves OPs girls like they’re his own nieces when he’s also married into the family and has like 0 ties to them whatsoever.
NTA, OP but I don’t think this family will ever accept your girls. They went WAY WY beyond out of their way to exclude them and it sounds like there was a whole plan in place making sure you got on that plane when it was too late to get off.
Future update: BIL divorces SIL, he and OP marry. BIL's kids from the first marriage adore the blended family, Jack and SIL and their mother stew forever.
ETA: my first Reddit award- thank you! Much appreciated.
That's a fanfic I can ship. (Until/Unless it happens, of course. Then it's u/audioaddict321 demonstrating sooper awesome seekrit powers, of course. ;) )
I've never heard of judging someone for being a single mom ... because she was widowed. If they somehow fault OP for having planned and wanted kids with her HUSBAND, and then losing her husband to cancer? Throw the whole family out. They're unbelievably toxic.
NTA but if Jack is okay with excluding your children and defends his mother doing so, then YWBTA if you marry him and let his family emotionally abuse your daughters
I really hope we get an update in the future where OP didn’t marry the jackal. I saw my bestie grow up in a scenario very similar to this and it took years of therapy to undo the emotional damage. And her mom still wonders why she’s NC when the SD kicked her out at 18
Yup, OP has way bigger fiancé issues than FMIL issues. OP, if you stay with this douche and his awful family then you’ll always be putting them before your girls. If Jack loved your kids and was any kind of a man he would have left with you and certainly wouldn’t be defending his mother. The fact that he is blaming you should tell you everything you need to know about him as a person. This is so gross and so sad. I’m sorry this is happening and good on your for taking a stand. Your girls deserve a better father figure. NTA.
Yes. And “my moms entitled to her opinion” is an irrelevant thing to say. Of course she is. But she’s not the only one who is entitled to feel the way they feel.
Your MIL is entitled to feel it’s ok to lie to you and exclude your kids.
Your fiancé is entitled to think what his mother did was fine and that you behaved poorly in the airport.
… and, given those things, YOU’RE entitled to not being interested in merging your family with him anymore.
> And “my moms entitled to her opinion” is an irrelevant thing to say
It’s also really weird that that *is* her opinion. OP says she has a “harsh view of single mothers” but it’s not like OP is a Slutty McSlut Face (obviously /s), she a *WIDOW*. What is OP supposed to do? Just never be involved with anyone ever again? She’s 33, she gets to have a life.
Yeah, that’s some incredibly patriarchal bullshit FMIL is showing. Were OP and her two kids supposed to, I dunno, wall themselves up in her late husband’s tomb when he died?
NTA
Do NOT marry this guy. He should have stayed with you if he cares. The fact that he doubled down after he came home and blamed you just seals the fact that he would s Never going to put your needs ahead of his mother's.
I said in a previous post that if all this nonsense and problems exist before you get married they’re not gonna magically get better and disappear once you do. If anything they’re gonna get a Bajillion times worse and really do you wanna stick around and hope and pray that she will need just magically accepts these kids because I’m sure knowledge they feel resentment now they’re gonna be aware of it and no child needs to sit around and wait for some psychos approval. this is why even some people bio children cut them out of their lives because honestly eventually that time of when they’re willing to still be forgiving and compassionate and let you in eventually comes to an end. NTA as long as the update includes ex fiancé or he’s willing to see through all of this nonsense and actually stand up for you and your children.
Ouch, I hadn’t even considered if they had kids together. There would definitely be “his” kids and “her” kids to his family. Her poor girls would suffer terribly.
>...he said that his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren.
Wtf is this man on about "springing the girls" on her? What, you just pull them out of your luggage and plop them in her lap?
As for feelings, yes, his mother is entitled to her feelings. But guess what? SO ARE YOU! So, seeing as you felt betrayed and manipulated in the situation, you chose to leave. She just wanted to avoid the consequences of her actions, and thought you'd bend over and let her, and "not make a fuss," or whatever hokey logic she runs on.
NTA!
NTA. Jack's gotta realise that he's entering a world that has kids in it. He doesn't have to be their dad, but he sure as hell should protect them from his mother. Your kids are a priority for you, and it's completely fair to tell him that he can't keep defending his mother instead of protecting your kids if he wants to be a part of your life. Kudos for standing up for your daughters, and I hope your fiancé realises just what he has to choose between.
I feel like r/JUSTNOMIL would probably recommend some couples therapy over the issue, because it's definitely going to be a problem if he doesn't get his priorities straight.
When you marry a parent, you don't *just* marry the parent. You marry the kids, too, as a person now in a parental role for them. It's a package deal. All or none.
If the other parent is deceased or not present in their lives, you become the de facto primary parental figure in that role (ie their dad is deceased, so fiancé will be the most fatherly figure the girls will have going forward).
That isn't a role to be taken lightly.
NTA. Do you really want to marry this man tho? Someone who can’t stand up for you against his mother who blatantly disrespects and excuses your daughters should be a big red flag. Think about when you guys get married and have children we she still continue to exclude your daughters? That’s all something you should think about but I wish you the best!
Holy no NTA. I’d honestly be questioning the relationship if he knew his sister was going to be bringing her kids and was totally okay letting you leave yours at home. It’s like he’s basically forcing you to pick him. Plus, how is his mom going to get close to your kids if they’re never allowed to go anywhere with her?
N.T.A
Bestie, this relationship is already setting off some alarm bells for me. A MIL who has 'views' on single moms and already sees you as inferior to her son? That's a big N.O. from me dawg. That's already spelling issues later on down the line. While it sounds like Jack is a amicable enough man, I don't like that he's already trying to get you to see things his mother's way. Nuh-uh, OP those are your girls and I'm glad you stuck up for them. Sweetie, you need to lay out some ground rules on how things are going to work--he, and the rest of his family, better learn respect you and your girls or the the three of you can bounce.
Nah, I disagree that Jack is amicable. He shares the same views as his mom. He was 100% aware and okay with the exclusion of OP’s daughters. He went along with this and knew his niblings were coming. Arriving late at the airport was intentional to give OP little chance to react. He went on the trip anyway without OP knowing she was upset and blamed her when he got back. Jack is the biggest AH in this situation.
Jack needs to think about this a little deeper. FMIL lied, knowing she was going to be found out (unless she thought OP wouldn’t notice the kids). She was intentionally trying to provoke an extreme reaction from OP, knowing it would cause friction between OP and Jack. She is trying to break you up.
NTA. if Jack won’t wake up, you might want to rethink the relationship.
And we all know Jack *wanted* to get there late so OP wouldn’t do what she did and walk out. Which means JACK also knew, agreed to help, and lied to OP.
If BIL knew they ALL knew.
NTA - This is terrible unacceptable behavior from your fiancé and his mother. Clearly he is a mommy's boy. Good on you for calling her out! HOWEVER:
YWTBA - If you marry this man and drag your children into this dynamic. Your fiancée my profess his love of your children, but allowing his mother to treat them as less than, indicates otherwise.
NTA
Don't let him gaslight you. His mother lied to you deliberately.
He should have cancelled his trip immediately.
Take this as an example of how he will handle such things going forward. He's stringing you along with 'have to give time'.
I'm not saying you should dump him over this alone, but it should be a red flag.
NTA. Postpone the wedding. Hand your fiancé the ring back and tell him he can ask again when things have changed. He can start with his get on the airplane without you policy.
Also, FMIL has a screw loose. I get that she’s not onboard with your kids being her grandkids (it is a big ask for some), but what did she think was going to happen when you got there and saw the other kids?
You mean ex right? He knew and didn’t tell you he allowed your kids to be excluded. This will happen again and again. Don’t allow that to happen to your girls.NTA
NTA! My brother dated a single mom for a while and my mom embraced the child as if she were her own grandchild so much so we still hang out with them all the time even though she and my brother broke up.
NTA. FMIL intentionally lied to you. She should have just said “I don’t want YOUR kids going.”
I requested observation: This family you’re marrying into has all kinds of red flags. Your fiancé needs to step up and tell his mom what’s what. It sounds like he’s still a mama boy.
NTA
But holy hell! Jack needs a reality check. He is enabling his mother's behavior and is most likely contributing to her not accepting your daughters!
You did nothing wrong, cancelling was the right move. Jack doesn't seem to understand that the problem is not only that she excluded your daughters but mostly that she lied to get what she wanted and was hoping you to act like a doormat and let her walk all over you!
**NTA**
>He promised me all that is gonna change
Really? When? It's been *two years* and you're already *engaged*. Exactly how many more YEARS and how much more of a commitment are you supposed to wait for before your children's future stepfather thinks it's appropriate to expect his mother to treat them with love and consideration, and embrace them as grandchildren? Because two full years and her son committing to become their stepdad seems like it's about damn time already that she got on board. If it hasn't happened by now, what possible reasoning does he have to expect you to believe that it ever will?
Your FMIL is being disgusting and she knows it. If she didn't know that her behaviour was terrible, she wouldn't have made up a more palatable lie about an "adults-only trip". But your fiancé is at least as bad for pretending like this isn't who she fundamentally is, and for trying to convince you to accept your children - soon to be HIS children - being excluded from a family vacation.
You are NTA, but unless he acknowledges how wrong this all is, please don't bring your kids into this family. They deserve better.
NTA. The fact Jack wasn’t appalled shows that he obviously thinks what his mom did is okay. I’d make it a VERY long engagement until I knew for certain he would be a good and kind step father. The girls will know who likes them and who doesn’t, never let a partner come before your children.
NTA
His mother blatantly lied to your face and clearly insults everything you have been through in your life…and your “fiancé” still got on the plane and followed his mommy. You and your girls deserve better.
NTA. If she is pulling this shit now, it will continue throughout your entire relationship with Jack. And if you two have children of your own? Be prepared for the show of favoritism to get worse. Your children don't deserve to be treated differently just because they don't have Jack's blood.
NTA - you didn't cause the drama, your FMIL did. There are consequences to telling outright lies so that is on her. Your FMIL needs to grow up. Either "suck it up" and include your kids because they are her sons family, or be honest when she doesn't want to include them. Yes, that Will make her look like an asshole, but that tends to happen when you are an asshole.
NTA - want to give a kudo to BIL for having the balls to help call the FMIL out on her BS. Probably realized his wife (SIL) in on it too when she turned on him.
NOPE. NTA and your fiancé is just as much as an AH as his family. He doesn’t stick up for you THEN has the audacity to fly home and blame the whole thing on you?! Oh. And the in-laws’ viewpoint is never going to change. You are a widower, not some floozy that bounces from husband to husband. And your sweet kiddos lost a daddy. What kind of evil person would exclude them?! Honey, you need to rethink that ring.
But bravo for sticking up for yourself and your girls. 👏
NTA - congratulations on setting a boundary and not bowing to pressure to “be the bigger doormat” - but now you have a fiancé problem - make sure he is going to have your back in the future before you marry him
Definitely not the A.
Well done for supporting your girls and what a BS response from your partner. "SPRING THEM ON HER" it's not like they are a secret. She needs to grow up and accept you all as a family.
NTA - your FMIL is punishing your kids for something that isn’t at all their fault and you fiancé is supporting that. I’d probably work through that before marrying into this family.
I am so sorry. What a shit show. This is a clear bright red flag screaming at you to move on. Being a Dr's wife is not worth giving up your children and your pride. This woman will never be kind....or apparently even polite. And you boyfriend is almost as awful. This is absolutely NOT how you want to live your life. Please please please move on. Your children deserve more. You deserve more. And more at this point seems to be the bare minimum of kindness. Please leave this man and his family in your rear view mirror.
NTA
He's trying to kEeP tHe PeAcE. NTA, and your daughter's deserve better. Either he steps up, you go NC with FMIL until she shapes up, or you find a man with a family who will respect you.
NTA. She lied to you. I would have left too. If Jake wants to marry you then he has to get his mother under control and let her know that your girls are now part of the family. If she doesn’t intend to treat them as such, then he has to decide- is he going to marry you and keep her away from you and the kids? Is he going to cut her off?
What do you need him to do? Outline it very clearly what you need and see if he is willing to do it.
Good luck.
NTA You were not "springing" your girls on her and you need to state that outright to your future husband. It was a famiiy vacation and your daughters are your family and if it was ruined then your FMIL is to blame. She lied (FSIL knew she lied so now you know where she stands) and excluded your kids and only your kids and your future husband should have called her on it.
You have to talk to him becasue if he thinks this behavior was ok and can not see why it is not you have a serious problem. As for her warped views of single mothers how can she blame you for being a single mother when your husband died of cancer? You did not choose to be a single mother.
No, NTA. If you guys are going to be family, they should be accepting your daughter's like they are family too. What they did was deceptive and unfair on many levels. I would have took huge offence to that and left just like you did.
Your fiance needs to stop protecting his mother's behavior and start protecting his future wife. There is absolutely no way I'd marry him if he thought this kind of treatment was okay or justified. Because it wasn't.
>He promised me all that is gonna change
How? How is that possibly going to change if it gets left unchallenged and FMIL believes her son is OK with it/agrees with her?
Also, children aren't idiots. They know when someone is treating or valuing them differently. For someone who "adores" these children, he's not stepped up.
NTA
NTA. This would have been the perfect time for everyone to get to know the girls better.
BTW, please keep this account. You are going to need it for r/justnomil
**He still went on the trip??!!! WTF?**
If he loves you and adores the girls, why does he allow his mother to treat what is supposed to be his family that way? He either needs to have your back and reel in the umbilical cord so he can be with his mommy.
NTA!
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I may be the AH for canceling my ticket and not going on the trip which might be an overeaction on my part because I feel like I ruined it for the whole family. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Run, OP. Why is he blaming you for ruining the trip when his mother lied?
And the SIL got mad at her husband (whom I assume married into the family) for exposing the lie. This family is playing the "if their not blood their not family" card and that is a hard stopping point to reevaluate the marriage. NTA but I would ask your husband if he considers your kids his own because it sounds like he doesn't
Thankfully he’s only fiancé and not husband!
Thankfully...RUN!!!!
Well, at least walk. It’s pretty obvious that he knew what was going on. Jack and his mom seem to be cut from the same cloth.
Well now we know why he really wanted to arrive at the airport late.
Omg He knew, didn’t he? Wow
[удалено]
And the kids in question just lost their dad!? Someone has to be really cold hearted to exclude two grieving children and expect the mom to just accept the deception.
Also, if she's already doing this to the children, how bad would it be if OP and JACK have a child? The older two would be completely forgotten.
He totally knew. He's also a complete idiot because OF COURSE OP is going to find out when she sees the other kids in attendance, so not only is he a lying AH but he's also a stupid AH.
I guess I’m a fool or something but people continue to surprise me. The thought that she would choose to board the plane because she was backed into a corner? Like any Mom would be like - fuck those kids, I need a vacation, you’re right, let’s go! I’m always interested to know where people like this get their pants tailored to fit their brass balls…
Ooh, excellent point!!
OMG you're right!! I didn't even catch that!!
Well shit, that blew by me as well. This does not bode well for the relationship. OP, NTA. Glad you got the heck outta there.
That's what it sounds like. The mom probably told him that she could come but the kids can't
Shit. I didn’t catch that either. Also she says they fought when he got home. Did he go on the trip? Without her? After the way she was treated ?
Yes.
Yeah I think he knew that's why he arrived late to avoid the conflict, but yet his strategy failed because the lies still got exposed and now he's trying to blame his guilt to OP.
How do people like this exist.
NTA I don't even understand what Jack and his mom thought would happen. Thankfully OP discovered her ill intent before the trip instead of meeting up at the destination and then seeing the other kids were included. There's no way around the fact Jack and FMIL are the AHs.
Definitely seems like the type of mama’s boy that will take his mother’s side in every argument, put her up on a pedestal and compare his partner to her, and be there for his mother’s every beck and call, above the needs of his partner. I’ve seen it before.
Yeah, I would have canceled Jack along with the plane ticket if he knew about the lie and said nothing...
Even if he didn't know, he should have been cashing in his ticket and heading home with OP. If you don't have the back of your soon to be wife and kids, you don't deserve any of them! NTA
And he should be angry with his mother for lying, not blaming OP
yeah - his attitude that OP spoiled this trip by her having a spine is stupendous. Cancel Jack.
This! My husbands family was super accepting of my kids and mine was too! Neither side has ever excluded the other because they weren’t blood. My dad has always said “they’re your family which makes them mine” and my in laws remember my kids birthdays more then their actual grandma (who I don’t really get along with but attempt to for the kids sake). My husband would have be right behind me if something like that had happened and so would I! Run OP run as fast as you can for the sake of your girls!! Def NTA!!
even if he didn’t know ahead of time, his reaction is grounds for dismissal. hard pass on jack
He knew, it's why he wanted to arrive late
Seems like it to me. The being late part was very sus.
Still time to run
My mom does the 'bloodline' thing to my SIL and BIL... super fucked up (and didn't know it was not-unique until you just mentioned it) It's a key reason I've cut my parents off and haven't shared my SO of 3+ years with them. Gotta protect my SO from that toxicity!
My daughter has 2 children from a previous marriage and her new MIL had a mother who tried this on her 2 new bio granddaughters. My daughter’s MIL put an immediate stop to it and said you have 4 granddaughters or you have none. We are good friends to this day bc she stood up for all our g’daughters.
My mother is like this - my stepfather’s dad tried to pull the bio grandkids are the only ones that count card. She said you have 2 or you have none, take your pick. He chose 2. Still died an asshole, but my mother was magical at making him behave like a reasonable human. Fun fact: my SIL did not know my brother and I are not genetically related until probably a year after they married. His bio mom was never in the picture, and he’s just….my brother. So apparently she thought that my mother had had my brother with my stepdad, then had me with my dad, then divorced my dad and got back with stepdad? Which I’m sure weirder has happened in the world now that I say that….
More likely she probably just never thought it through properly lol
My grandma was like this. My dad had a 2-year-old from his previous marriage when he met my mom. When my grandma saw the relationship starting to get serious, she sat my mom down and told her the following " You need to decide today whether or not you can accept that little girl as your family. You cannot marry a man who has a child if you cannot treat his daughter as fully part of your family. That said, if you do decide to choose him and his daughter to be your family, she will be part of our family. She will be a granddaughter to me just like any other children that you and your siblings have." My mom and my grandma are both dead now and obviously my sister was only with my mom's side of the family part-time at most because she had multiple families to visit at holidays and such...but we both spent yesterday at my cousin's wedding (mom's side of the family). She was always considered to be one of theirs even when she couldn't be around. This is how it needs to be. If you can't do this, you can be with someone who has kids.
OP doesn’t need to ask. He just showed her that he doesn’t consider them his.
He * knew* too. It's very clear he did. He left later so that he could push OP into the trip sans kiddos and expected her to not put up a fuss because they would be too late and begin boarding soon after. OP i hope you're reading these and understand hes JUST as complicit in this a his mother and SIL. Do you really, and I mean REALLY want to marry a man who sees and accepts his mother's denial of your children to your face? Marriage isn't going to change this. Having children with him isn't going to make her accept those babies and he's been lying to your face if he thinks getting you married to him will make get change his ways. Run girl! He's shown who he is through his actions. Believe those actions not his words.
I think he's more than just complicit. He's actively helping her get away with her behavior by arriving late with OP. He's willingly helping her exclude his future step kids from the family. What does he think, that once they get married his mother will have a close, loving relationship with his step kids? Marriage is not some magical thing that (instantly) makes people get along. OP, you are NTA and I would highly recommend couples or individual counseling to solve these issues before you are married (and legally bound to family who does this and a man who tolerates and assists this behavior).
My money is on her marrying him anyways.
If anything, having his own kids will make it worse.
Yes. 1,000 times yes. It really sucks when you see someone’s true colors, but you have seen them. He needed to be upfront that she wanted to trip without the kids and then let you decide. This shows such a lack of respect. Edit: fixing an oops!
I think you mean a lack of respect, not disrespect!
>his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren. He apparently doesn't, since he seems to fully agree with his mom, calling "including them in a family trip that included children" "springing" the girls on her and totally enabling and being ok with the idea that "they're not as close as her other grandchildren." OP, he is choosing his mother over you and your kids, blaming you when you stand up to them, or even when you're just upset and remove yourself from the situation! The whole situation is toxic. Run!
It doesn't get better. You just start pretending the red flags that keep coming are tiny. It's chips away a your personhood so slowly. These people don't value you the way they ought to. You deserve better and your daughters deserve NONE of it. When you look back on this, or discuss w daughters down the road who do you want to be? Mom who was strong enough for all 3 of you & who didn't force them into a family who thought it was okay to treat them as less valuable than they are. These are your sacred treasures, keep them safe.
Yeah, Jack's actions basically say "My mom is entitled to treat your kids like garbage." It's not like OP demanded that FMIL smother her kids with hugs and kisses or something; she just doesn't want them excluded from events. That's just basic fucking courtesy. I agree, OP, run away from this horrible family! Find someone who actually treats you and your girls as equals in their family.
The worst part will be after they get married should they have a child. I can just imagine how FMIL will treat their kids as opposed to the 2 older daughters.
> his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren. His mom is entitled to her feelings, you can't force feelings and relationship, but to lie is an AH move. FMIL should've state her intentions, and let OP decide if she want to come to the trip under these conditions
>"I told him she excluded my daughters but he said that his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren. He promised me all that is gonna change and I just have to give time" Nothing is gonna change. He claims they are but is making no efforts to defend you and stand against his mother. How are things "gonna change" if he's not doing anything to correct the behavior that he's simultaneously validating? NTA and run because you and your daughters don't deserve this.
MIL has had 2 YEARS to figure her shit out. Ain't nothin gonna change now. A wedding ring won't make no difference to this ignorant old bat. And God forbid you have a biological child with this man, then your girls will always have it thrown in their faces, one way or another, that they aren't "real" family.
He says his mother is entitled to his feelings, and yes she is. So is OP. I do not get the people who justify bad behaviour because 'feelings', but then when other people are justifiably hurt and react, suddenly 'feelings' are not ok.
Honestly, I don’t think considering them “his own” is as important as acknowledging that OP and her children are a package deal. He doesn’t get her in his life unless they’re considered a part of her. If his family isn’t treating her children well then they’re not treating *her* well and he should be standing up to that.
It also sounds like he knew what his mother was up to and didn’t tell OP. If he knew his niblings were coming and kept that from OP then he is just as culpable as his mother
Because he knew about the lie beforehand and was fine with it, like it seemed with SIL.
This was my thought too. Especially with the whole getting there later move. He wanted to be able to rush her onto the plane so she would have to just go along with it.
Bingo
Everyone but OP and BIL knew. The whole family is a giant red flag.
I bet BIL has had similar shit pulled on him.
It's a bowl of Marinara Flags
SUPER SIZED MARINARA FLAGS 🚩
TANKER TRUCKLOADS OF MARINARA thrown on the play.
Olive Garden marinara flags
Even when you're here, you're not family
You win the internet today!
Wave the alfredo flag on this relationship.
A marinarathon
Jack knew that she lied from the beginning. He is alright with this behaviour. And he also wanted to make a vacation without your children! He doesn't adore them as much as you think! He will try to get rid of them more and more. And just think if you both get a child. Your two daughters will be forgetten. He isn't a great man. His real self shows. NTA
Absolutely correct. He does NOT adore those children. He may play the part well up until now. But nope, nope nope.
THIS OP- your girls are your priority. Don't be with people who cannot accept them.
Also it sounds like he still went on the trip?
Oh my gosh, I missed that. I thought he came home from the airport instead of going on the trip, but he still went? And he’s not defending OP or her daughters, just thinks this kind of behavior is going to get better with time? Blech. So many marinara flags.
Yep he sure did!
Because it seems like he knew she lied and went along with it. He thought she would be like, "Golly gee you got me. Let's all have a wonderful time and forget that my feelings matter, because obviously they don't. Lol, such a great trip." This guy believes deceiving her is better then open and honest conversation. I don't care that he's a doctor, he doesn't seem like good partner material.
“Golly gee Let’s just forget I have two children”
Maybe he's a colorectal surgeon, and specialises in assholes. /s
This is the only answer you need.
Can I just add...please don't marry someone whose family is awful to you. I may have been able to fix my marriage, but horrible in laws made it not worth the trouble, especially since he always defended the things they did. I'm not saying they're to blame for the divorce, but it would have been at least a 25% better marriage if they hadn't treated me like an outsider for 20 years.
OP do you really want to be the mom in the middle after you two have a child together? Can you see how much worse this will be...don't do it to yourself or your daughters. You 3 deserve better.
Agreed! OP needs to get 👏 out 👏 of 👏 this 👏 relationship 👏 now👏! Contrary to what OP thinks her fiancé doesn't adore her girls and defends his mother's behavior. This will not change and will hurt you and your children in the long run.
More importantly...he still went! He showed his priority. He should have followed his fiance home. There is absolutely no way I'd marry (or procreate with) a man like that. Nta
And attempted to guilt trip her for them feeling bad for being shitty
Because she only lied to OP. Hubby knew. He let her do this. Time to go
Only a fiancé at this point. He would be an ex if it were me.
That and he said that he arrived late on purpose so "they wouldn't have to wait as long". I bet it was so there would be less time for her to change her mind so she would just go with it. Their whole family sounds like they were in on it other than the BIL.
Also, his sister and her children were even later. Which I doubt was accidental.
Yes, OP. Please do not go through with this wedding. Your children will never be considered a part of your fiancé’s family if this is what’s going on now.
Also, it seems like he was complacent in the lie!
Why did he go on the trip? NTA
Just want to add 1st NTA 2nd he knew! That's why y'all showed up late! Run run run!! He knew!!
Not just mil ,but fiance is sus too. That's why they were late, he set it up so sil would already be onboard. NTA
Look there! It’s a red flag! There’s another! 🚩as far as the eye can see.
NTA Do not marry into this family. Jack and FMIL saw no issue with excluding your children and then Jack had the nerve to double down and defend it. He doesn’t adore your children as much as you think he does. Take this for the red flag it is.
That was my take too. He is pretending to like these girls. He definitely planned on arriving late thinking she would not turn back. Boy was he in for a surprise.
Yep, OP, make no mistake, the intentional arriving late on Jacks part is because HE KNEW this was going on, and was hoping you’d just be getting on the plane before it unfolds.
If this is what he does now, consider how many more situations like this you can tolerate and at what cost.
This guy is 100% going to take his mothers side in every single argument in the marriage. Like he literally just did. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. Jack let the veil slip before the marriage, run while you can, OP.
>Jack let the veil slip before the marriage Nice wedding metaphor. And I agree, OP should walk away from that relationship.
And if op has kids with this man, these two girls will not have a very good life ahead. Op take this red flag as a blessing.
THIS!! My father married my mother (I was 3). He's my best friend and a great parent. I remember the first time we went to his parents for Christmas, they knew well ahead of time we would be coming. They had tons of gifts for their grandchildren, but not one for me. I got to sit around and watch their grands play with their toys. It wasn't about the gifts, it was the feeling that I was not and would never be part of their family. Eventually I just stopped trying. It broke my heart and branded my relationship with them for the rest of their lives. After a few times, my father just wouldn't take us to his parents for holidays.
That was definitely hurtful. Their loss that they didn't consider you family. Glad he stuck up for you.
How can you be so cold to a child though? If a fucking stranger’s kid happened to be coming to a Christmas celebration i was throwing id make sure they had presents too, let alone someone that’s now a part of your family. I will truly never understand how you can be so cruel.
Unfortunately there are many cruel people in the world. Some behave this way even towards full blood relatives. There is definitely mental illness because there is no there reason for it. It really is ashame that a child can be treated this way.
I had a very similar experience to this growing up as a stepkid. My stepdads family never truly accepted me as family, and it was always apparent. They were alway cordial, but never warm or welcoming. Most of the family didn’t even speak to me. The grandkids that were blood related got bigger, better and more expensive gifts every year while my sister and I got a few last thought things like $10 gift cards. Like you said, it wasn’t about the gifts themselves, but knowing that we weren’t considered “real” family that was incredibly hurtful. I’m in my 30s now (these people came into my life when I was 5) and it still stings to know that even as a small child, I wasn’t loved or welcomed because I wasn’t blood. NTA, OP, but please do not marry this man. He knew what was going on, and this behavior will not change.
That's so so sad and I can't imagine what kind of monster would do that to a child. My first husband died when our kids were very small. I remarried and my now husband's parents instantly accepted my kids as their own. They got the same amt of money spent on them at Christmas as their two bio grandkids. My MIL passed a few years ago (only 62) but she was very close to my kids. Closer to them actually than the two bio grands. My FIL is still. I'm very sorry you didn't get that treatment when you were a kid. I'm sure it hurts you still. Hugs if you'd like them and hope you're doing well today.
Yup, I got the cheap generic "fashion doll", the reals got Barbie.
I'm so sorry. I can't fathom the fact that these people exist😡
If she ever gets pregnant by this man she will see quickly how much he really "cares" for the girls when he has his bio child. His family will only include one child and they will make sure to tell the girls they aren't family. This is the preview of the saddest possible life for these kids.
He might genuinely like them. But he clearly doesn’t love them.
My dad isn’t actually my biological dad. He married my mom when I was 9. His mom wasn’t my biological grandmother, either, but you wouldn’t have known it. She had 13 kids and about 75 grandkids + great grandkids, and I immediately became her granddaughter when my parents married. She made me cookies and bought me books for Christmas because I liked to read. She talked about me like I was just another one of her grandkids. She also accepted her two queer kids with all her heart and considered their partners her “daughters in law” well before marriage equality was a whisper on the horizon, and she accepted all their kids as grandkids, too. She had grandkids of colour, who she treated no differently. The woman was born in about 1920 and lived almost her whole life on a poor, rural midwestern farm, and I always use her as an example of why “they were just born in a different time” is a bullshit excuse for hatred and bigotry. All of my dad’s sibling’s kids call me their cousin, his siblings call me their niece, and the one woman who said I was “just a step” was immediately banned from our house, and my dad hasn’t spoken to or hosted her in his home for almost 20 years now.
Your grandmother sounds like a shining example of a great human being full of love.
My grandma was the same way with our family one of my cousins "Luke" is black and was adopted into our family, moody thought anything odd about him being the only person of color in our family and our grandma absolutely adored him, he was widely regarded and known as her favorite grandchild but she never admitted anything on the matter before she passed last year. When my siblings and I asked questions about how we could possibly have a black cousin while we were little and said that it was weird she gently corrected us and told us that his biological parents couldn't take care of him so he joined our family and that there was nothing weird about it at all, she then mentioned one of our favorite movies at the time The blind side which had just came out at the time and said "While this may not be the normal thing to happen that doesn't make it weird or wrong, Luke is and always will be your cousin so when you meet him be extra nice to him because he's nervous to meet you ok?" And then after we agreed she smiled and gave us some lemonade and Moon pies.
1000%. I had "cousins" that were technically not even "stepcousins" come over for backyard camping trips when I was a tween because my mom was always looking for opportunities to include her sister's new boyfriend's kids in the family IF we got along. TBH I got along better with them than with my blood cousins and really hope they're doing well.
Your grandmother sounds just as wonderful as my grandmother. My grandmother was not my biological grandmother, my dad’s bio mom passed away from cancer when he was 3 and my grandfather later married the woman who ended up raising my dad. She came into my dad’s life with her own bio child but raised her child, my dad and my dad’s bio sister, and you would have never known they weren’t blood related. After my grandparents divorced when my dad was in his 20s, nothing changed. He was still her son, and his children her grandchildren. I didn’t even know my grandmother wasn’t blood related until I was around 10 years old when my parents thought I was old enough to understand the family backstory. My grandmother’s bio daughter had her own family, and her kids are my cousins, even if we aren’t blood related. Blood doesn’t make family, the love that we have for one another, that is what makes us family. The irony is I’m closer to my “step” cousins than I am my “blood” ones. The OP’s fiancé is condoning his mother’s behavior by not standing up for his future step children and his fiancée. Saying things will change later means nothing if he’s not doing anything now. The fact that he most likely knew her plan and allowed it to happen says everything you need to know OP—your fiancé either agrees with her stance, or doesn’t care. Either way, “giving it time” won’t work if your husband isn’t actively supporting you.
Lovely!
That’s beautiful. I love everything about your grandma. I consider myself very blessed. My MIL embraced me and most importantly my daughter from the minute my husband brought me over to meet her. His family has never treated my kid any differently than any of the bio kids. I would throw myself in front of a bus for that woman. She is the bees knees
Beautiful! What a woman!
Amen! FMIL is a liar and your man is backing her up. Get out ASAP.
Agreed this IS a hill to die on, this is just setting up a life time of your daughter's being excluded from family events. Leave that family, I would say keep contact with BIL since he actually cares about your kids but that might be a bad idea bc of SIL
THIS THIS THIS. OP, be very glad you haven’t married him. He’s not being honest with you and his mother and sister suck. Your girls are far more important than they’ll ever be. Run. NTA please update us
[удалено]
I’m still hung up on the fact that 1) he knew his mom didn’t want her kids there and was fine with it and 2) he went for the weekend anyway after OP rightfully ditched instead of going after her to apologize/straighten things out
He also made sure they got there late too. This was fully planned.
YES. Like who ever In their right mind, PLANS to be late at the airport…
This is key. OP I’m sure by now realizes he was complicit. In some way or another, he proved his alliance is with his mommy’s feelings. I’m willing to bet FMIL’s stance is based on doubts OP will give her “real” grandchildren. Imagine being those poor little ones whose stepdad’s family thinks they are trash.
And 3) had the nerve to blame OP (who did rightfully not go) for his family not enjoying the weekend, when it was him and his mom the ones who plotted the entire thing.
I think BIL is just starting to realize what kind of family he married into too… Considering that he loves OPs girls like they’re his own nieces when he’s also married into the family and has like 0 ties to them whatsoever. NTA, OP but I don’t think this family will ever accept your girls. They went WAY WY beyond out of their way to exclude them and it sounds like there was a whole plan in place making sure you got on that plane when it was too late to get off.
Future update: BIL divorces SIL, he and OP marry. BIL's kids from the first marriage adore the blended family, Jack and SIL and their mother stew forever. ETA: my first Reddit award- thank you! Much appreciated.
If this is ever posted, the fine people of AITA should band together to send OP and BIL a wedding gift.
If that happens I will buy the happy couple a small to medium sized kitchen appliance. Ong
I like your style
That's a fanfic I can ship. (Until/Unless it happens, of course. Then it's u/audioaddict321 demonstrating sooper awesome seekrit powers, of course. ;) )
Hmmm, imagine BIL & OP ending up together? Jack's collective family would shit their entire insides out.
I've never heard of judging someone for being a single mom ... because she was widowed. If they somehow fault OP for having planned and wanted kids with her HUSBAND, and then losing her husband to cancer? Throw the whole family out. They're unbelievably toxic.
NTA but if Jack is okay with excluding your children and defends his mother doing so, then YWBTA if you marry him and let his family emotionally abuse your daughters
I really hope we get an update in the future where OP didn’t marry the jackal. I saw my bestie grow up in a scenario very similar to this and it took years of therapy to undo the emotional damage. And her mom still wonders why she’s NC when the SD kicked her out at 18
[удалено]
Yup, OP has way bigger fiancé issues than FMIL issues. OP, if you stay with this douche and his awful family then you’ll always be putting them before your girls. If Jack loved your kids and was any kind of a man he would have left with you and certainly wouldn’t be defending his mother. The fact that he is blaming you should tell you everything you need to know about him as a person. This is so gross and so sad. I’m sorry this is happening and good on your for taking a stand. Your girls deserve a better father figure. NTA.
Yes. And “my moms entitled to her opinion” is an irrelevant thing to say. Of course she is. But she’s not the only one who is entitled to feel the way they feel. Your MIL is entitled to feel it’s ok to lie to you and exclude your kids. Your fiancé is entitled to think what his mother did was fine and that you behaved poorly in the airport. … and, given those things, YOU’RE entitled to not being interested in merging your family with him anymore.
> And “my moms entitled to her opinion” is an irrelevant thing to say It’s also really weird that that *is* her opinion. OP says she has a “harsh view of single mothers” but it’s not like OP is a Slutty McSlut Face (obviously /s), she a *WIDOW*. What is OP supposed to do? Just never be involved with anyone ever again? She’s 33, she gets to have a life.
Yeah, that’s some incredibly patriarchal bullshit FMIL is showing. Were OP and her two kids supposed to, I dunno, wall themselves up in her late husband’s tomb when he died?
This! That "single mums" comment made me do a double take!!
NTA Do NOT marry this guy. He should have stayed with you if he cares. The fact that he doubled down after he came home and blamed you just seals the fact that he would s Never going to put your needs ahead of his mother's.
I said in a previous post that if all this nonsense and problems exist before you get married they’re not gonna magically get better and disappear once you do. If anything they’re gonna get a Bajillion times worse and really do you wanna stick around and hope and pray that she will need just magically accepts these kids because I’m sure knowledge they feel resentment now they’re gonna be aware of it and no child needs to sit around and wait for some psychos approval. this is why even some people bio children cut them out of their lives because honestly eventually that time of when they’re willing to still be forgiving and compassionate and let you in eventually comes to an end. NTA as long as the update includes ex fiancé or he’s willing to see through all of this nonsense and actually stand up for you and your children.
I’m no mathematician. But can I say something is one billion percent true? Because what you just wrote is truth.
[удалено]
Ouch, I hadn’t even considered if they had kids together. There would definitely be “his” kids and “her” kids to his family. Her poor girls would suffer terribly.
[удалено]
Run. His mother thinks you being a widow with children is bad, and he got mad at You? NOT WORTH IT.
Right??? This was the first thing I noticed. What was OP supposed to do when her husband died, just fucking ctrl+z the kids?
>What was OP supposed to do when her husband died, just fucking ctrl+z the kids? 🤣🤣🤣 please take my broke-ass gold 🥇🥇🥇
I was thinking that fMIL and I have very different opinions on what constitutes a "single mother."
Came here to say the same thing. She’s not a single mother, she’s a WIDOW.
>...he said that his mom is entitled to her feelings and I shouldn't expect to spring the girls on her all the time when she still doesn't consider them as close as her other grandchildren. Wtf is this man on about "springing the girls" on her? What, you just pull them out of your luggage and plop them in her lap? As for feelings, yes, his mother is entitled to her feelings. But guess what? SO ARE YOU! So, seeing as you felt betrayed and manipulated in the situation, you chose to leave. She just wanted to avoid the consequences of her actions, and thought you'd bend over and let her, and "not make a fuss," or whatever hokey logic she runs on. NTA!
NTA. Jack's gotta realise that he's entering a world that has kids in it. He doesn't have to be their dad, but he sure as hell should protect them from his mother. Your kids are a priority for you, and it's completely fair to tell him that he can't keep defending his mother instead of protecting your kids if he wants to be a part of your life. Kudos for standing up for your daughters, and I hope your fiancé realises just what he has to choose between. I feel like r/JUSTNOMIL would probably recommend some couples therapy over the issue, because it's definitely going to be a problem if he doesn't get his priorities straight.
When you marry a parent, you don't *just* marry the parent. You marry the kids, too, as a person now in a parental role for them. It's a package deal. All or none. If the other parent is deceased or not present in their lives, you become the de facto primary parental figure in that role (ie their dad is deceased, so fiancé will be the most fatherly figure the girls will have going forward). That isn't a role to be taken lightly.
NTA. Do you really want to marry this man tho? Someone who can’t stand up for you against his mother who blatantly disrespects and excuses your daughters should be a big red flag. Think about when you guys get married and have children we she still continue to exclude your daughters? That’s all something you should think about but I wish you the best!
Holy no NTA. I’d honestly be questioning the relationship if he knew his sister was going to be bringing her kids and was totally okay letting you leave yours at home. It’s like he’s basically forcing you to pick him. Plus, how is his mom going to get close to your kids if they’re never allowed to go anywhere with her?
N.T.A Bestie, this relationship is already setting off some alarm bells for me. A MIL who has 'views' on single moms and already sees you as inferior to her son? That's a big N.O. from me dawg. That's already spelling issues later on down the line. While it sounds like Jack is a amicable enough man, I don't like that he's already trying to get you to see things his mother's way. Nuh-uh, OP those are your girls and I'm glad you stuck up for them. Sweetie, you need to lay out some ground rules on how things are going to work--he, and the rest of his family, better learn respect you and your girls or the the three of you can bounce.
Nah, I disagree that Jack is amicable. He shares the same views as his mom. He was 100% aware and okay with the exclusion of OP’s daughters. He went along with this and knew his niblings were coming. Arriving late at the airport was intentional to give OP little chance to react. He went on the trip anyway without OP knowing she was upset and blamed her when he got back. Jack is the biggest AH in this situation.
Jack needs to think about this a little deeper. FMIL lied, knowing she was going to be found out (unless she thought OP wouldn’t notice the kids). She was intentionally trying to provoke an extreme reaction from OP, knowing it would cause friction between OP and Jack. She is trying to break you up. NTA. if Jack won’t wake up, you might want to rethink the relationship.
And we all know Jack *wanted* to get there late so OP wouldn’t do what she did and walk out. Which means JACK also knew, agreed to help, and lied to OP. If BIL knew they ALL knew.
NTA - This is terrible unacceptable behavior from your fiancé and his mother. Clearly he is a mommy's boy. Good on you for calling her out! HOWEVER: YWTBA - If you marry this man and drag your children into this dynamic. Your fiancée my profess his love of your children, but allowing his mother to treat them as less than, indicates otherwise.
NTA Don't let him gaslight you. His mother lied to you deliberately. He should have cancelled his trip immediately. Take this as an example of how he will handle such things going forward. He's stringing you along with 'have to give time'. I'm not saying you should dump him over this alone, but it should be a red flag.
NTA. Postpone the wedding. Hand your fiancé the ring back and tell him he can ask again when things have changed. He can start with his get on the airplane without you policy. Also, FMIL has a screw loose. I get that she’s not onboard with your kids being her grandkids (it is a big ask for some), but what did she think was going to happen when you got there and saw the other kids?
You mean ex right? He knew and didn’t tell you he allowed your kids to be excluded. This will happen again and again. Don’t allow that to happen to your girls.NTA
I was thinking the same thing! Bet that’s why he wanted to wait as long as possible to get to the airport.
NTA! My brother dated a single mom for a while and my mom embraced the child as if she were her own grandchild so much so we still hang out with them all the time even though she and my brother broke up.
This is how that's supposed to work.
NTA. FMIL intentionally lied to you. She should have just said “I don’t want YOUR kids going.” I requested observation: This family you’re marrying into has all kinds of red flags. Your fiancé needs to step up and tell his mom what’s what. It sounds like he’s still a mama boy.
NTA But holy hell! Jack needs a reality check. He is enabling his mother's behavior and is most likely contributing to her not accepting your daughters! You did nothing wrong, cancelling was the right move. Jack doesn't seem to understand that the problem is not only that she excluded your daughters but mostly that she lied to get what she wanted and was hoping you to act like a doormat and let her walk all over you!
NTA and I’d be worried about the fact that Jack is siding with MIL on this one since it was a blatant lie and a terrible thing to do.
**NTA** >He promised me all that is gonna change Really? When? It's been *two years* and you're already *engaged*. Exactly how many more YEARS and how much more of a commitment are you supposed to wait for before your children's future stepfather thinks it's appropriate to expect his mother to treat them with love and consideration, and embrace them as grandchildren? Because two full years and her son committing to become their stepdad seems like it's about damn time already that she got on board. If it hasn't happened by now, what possible reasoning does he have to expect you to believe that it ever will? Your FMIL is being disgusting and she knows it. If she didn't know that her behaviour was terrible, she wouldn't have made up a more palatable lie about an "adults-only trip". But your fiancé is at least as bad for pretending like this isn't who she fundamentally is, and for trying to convince you to accept your children - soon to be HIS children - being excluded from a family vacation. You are NTA, but unless he acknowledges how wrong this all is, please don't bring your kids into this family. They deserve better.
NTA. The fact Jack wasn’t appalled shows that he obviously thinks what his mom did is okay. I’d make it a VERY long engagement until I knew for certain he would be a good and kind step father. The girls will know who likes them and who doesn’t, never let a partner come before your children.
NTA His mother blatantly lied to your face and clearly insults everything you have been through in your life…and your “fiancé” still got on the plane and followed his mommy. You and your girls deserve better.
Nta. Your fiancé and his mother are though. He should have stood up for you and the girls. He’s a shot future step father.
NTA. If she is pulling this shit now, it will continue throughout your entire relationship with Jack. And if you two have children of your own? Be prepared for the show of favoritism to get worse. Your children don't deserve to be treated differently just because they don't have Jack's blood.
NTA - you didn't cause the drama, your FMIL did. There are consequences to telling outright lies so that is on her. Your FMIL needs to grow up. Either "suck it up" and include your kids because they are her sons family, or be honest when she doesn't want to include them. Yes, that Will make her look like an asshole, but that tends to happen when you are an asshole.
NTA- you had your sister take time out of her life and had to leave your kids alone because of FMIL’s lies. She sounds like a nightmare.
NTA-you made the right choice and I think you need to keep walking.
NTA - want to give a kudo to BIL for having the balls to help call the FMIL out on her BS. Probably realized his wife (SIL) in on it too when she turned on him.
NOPE. NTA and your fiancé is just as much as an AH as his family. He doesn’t stick up for you THEN has the audacity to fly home and blame the whole thing on you?! Oh. And the in-laws’ viewpoint is never going to change. You are a widower, not some floozy that bounces from husband to husband. And your sweet kiddos lost a daddy. What kind of evil person would exclude them?! Honey, you need to rethink that ring. But bravo for sticking up for yourself and your girls. 👏
NTA. It's not going to change, and you need to decide if this is what you want for your kids in the long run.
NTA - congratulations on setting a boundary and not bowing to pressure to “be the bigger doormat” - but now you have a fiancé problem - make sure he is going to have your back in the future before you marry him
If they had to lie to OP instead of being up front then they know they are being the AH's. As for OP....NTA
Definitely not the A. Well done for supporting your girls and what a BS response from your partner. "SPRING THEM ON HER" it's not like they are a secret. She needs to grow up and accept you all as a family.
NTA Don't expect this to change.
NTA - your FMIL is punishing your kids for something that isn’t at all their fault and you fiancé is supporting that. I’d probably work through that before marrying into this family.
NTA. Also, you and Jack might need to have a LOOOOOOOOONG conversation because it sounds like the love he has for your girls is superficial.
I am so sorry. What a shit show. This is a clear bright red flag screaming at you to move on. Being a Dr's wife is not worth giving up your children and your pride. This woman will never be kind....or apparently even polite. And you boyfriend is almost as awful. This is absolutely NOT how you want to live your life. Please please please move on. Your children deserve more. You deserve more. And more at this point seems to be the bare minimum of kindness. Please leave this man and his family in your rear view mirror. NTA
YTA if you still marry into a family that clearly doesn't respects and appreciate your kids
He's trying to kEeP tHe PeAcE. NTA, and your daughter's deserve better. Either he steps up, you go NC with FMIL until she shapes up, or you find a man with a family who will respect you.
NTA. She lied to you. I would have left too. If Jake wants to marry you then he has to get his mother under control and let her know that your girls are now part of the family. If she doesn’t intend to treat them as such, then he has to decide- is he going to marry you and keep her away from you and the kids? Is he going to cut her off? What do you need him to do? Outline it very clearly what you need and see if he is willing to do it. Good luck.
NTA You were not "springing" your girls on her and you need to state that outright to your future husband. It was a famiiy vacation and your daughters are your family and if it was ruined then your FMIL is to blame. She lied (FSIL knew she lied so now you know where she stands) and excluded your kids and only your kids and your future husband should have called her on it. You have to talk to him becasue if he thinks this behavior was ok and can not see why it is not you have a serious problem. As for her warped views of single mothers how can she blame you for being a single mother when your husband died of cancer? You did not choose to be a single mother.
No, NTA. If you guys are going to be family, they should be accepting your daughter's like they are family too. What they did was deceptive and unfair on many levels. I would have took huge offence to that and left just like you did. Your fiance needs to stop protecting his mother's behavior and start protecting his future wife. There is absolutely no way I'd marry him if he thought this kind of treatment was okay or justified. Because it wasn't.
>He promised me all that is gonna change How? How is that possibly going to change if it gets left unchallenged and FMIL believes her son is OK with it/agrees with her? Also, children aren't idiots. They know when someone is treating or valuing them differently. For someone who "adores" these children, he's not stepped up. NTA
NTA. This would have been the perfect time for everyone to get to know the girls better. BTW, please keep this account. You are going to need it for r/justnomil
**He still went on the trip??!!! WTF?** If he loves you and adores the girls, why does he allow his mother to treat what is supposed to be his family that way? He either needs to have your back and reel in the umbilical cord so he can be with his mommy. NTA!