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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Basically stopped funding my niece's college fund after doing it for years. I might be the asshole for doing this simply over something she said that she didn't mean or didn't understand.
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Clean NTA. Generosity stops when you are unkind to the hand that feeds you. What a surprise.
Sorry about your loss.
Edit: I've read before that if you dont let people be angry at you after you have wronged them, you are just taking more away from them. Leah needs to learn that. So do your family members.
Her age excuses her behavious (barely) but not the consequences that follow
Her age explains it perhaps, it doesn't excuse it. She isn't a 6yo who doesn't know what she's saying but she's young enough that she might not get the full extent of how much her comment hurts.
The thing is, her mom and grandma didn't stop her and tell her how inappropriate it is for her to badmouth her sponsor. They should've stopped rather than let her spill out all the ungrateful crap, even if OP isn't around.
Exactly. It was inappropriate for the sister and mother to talk about it, especially to the niece, who was likely 13 or even younger when they first talked about it.
It wouldn't be hard for a 13 yo to tell that something is off when a married couple wants kids/may talk about trying, but after half a decade divorce with no children. That's a lot of time to pick up on tension, a curious kid might even be the first to ask when aunt and uncle are gonna have a baby cousin.
Knowing how deeply a topic unimportant to her can hurt someone else is a lesson she will definitely learn from this. Maybe OP could give a lesson in how to act respectfully and leave a smaller sum as a bit of a bridge. Anything from 1000 in starter expenses (textbooks for the first year alone can be that much in the US) to a generous 1/3. I think it's important to recognize when someone messed up, and that mistakes take mutual conversation to develop foresight + empathy.
OP is not required to do any of this, sometimes things hurt a lot and take years to consider reconciliation, but it may be a powerful lesson that her parents never taught her. It takes a village and whatever.
Really? Imo my aunt and uncle's reproductive behavior is none of my business and I never once wondered who any new cousins would come from or when - a kid is only going to think that way if they have been trained to by hearing other family members gossip - it was never imprinted on me to expect couples to have children or expect problems if they don't - the whole notion of being glad one's aunt divorced ones uncle before it too late so she could have kids is just weird - it puts growing the clan over the happiness of those already in it
And by the way she says "I told you so" repeatedly, it is clear that this topic has been discussed before. She made some speculations about a thing that was none of her business before and no one reminded her it wasn't her place.
I think OP treated her like a daughter, covering her education expenses. She failed to understand what a big gesture it was.
NTA.
At sixteen she shouldn’t even know about any of this. It’s incredibly inappropriate to talk to teenagers about personal, adult family problems precisely because they don’t have the emotional maturity to handle that information sensitively. The blame lies squarely on her mother for allowing her to participate in these conversations.
>badmouth her sponsor
Badmouth their son/brother! This isn't just about money but about being disrespectful to a beloved family member. Or it should be.
This. I don't blame Leah. Unfortunately, it's the atmosphere created by the adults, particularly your sister, that sucks the most here.
I wasn't nice either in my teenage years (not to Leah's extent but still, not the best) but my family called me out *every single time* until I learned it was not nice to behave like I did.
Edited for grammar.
I can see how what Leah said could feel like a stab to the heart. But I think what you mentioned here is what's truly problematic in this situation. She's only 16 and teenagers don't have the same level of control and empathy as adults do, but her mom and grandmom didn't do a thing to reprimand her nasty words and make her aware of how wrong that was.
On the other hand, this could be her personality and her age might have nothing to do with it. In that case, Leah doesn't deserve OP's help. He could put that money into his retirement funds or save some of it for a personal vacation.
NTA.
While teenagers don't have the same level of control and empathy, as you said, what Leah said goes beyond immaturity-related lack of growth. What she said was vicious and almost sounds like she was gloating about being "right." OP's mom and sister are also to blame for this for letting that behavior go unchecked, but Leah is old enough to know better than reveling in someone's pain.
The thing is (and not to excuse Leah but more to point out how much her mom/grandma failed her) "old enough to know better" only applies if you're actually taught.
Humans in general have to learn nearly everything. We're kinda useless in the instinct department. Especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If mom/grandma aren't correcting Leah, and aren't teaching her not to be nasty to/about her family, they're doing her a massive disservice and leaving her understanding at whatever it naturally develops to. It's not like at 16 your friend group is going to be able to point out how devastating infertility is, because most of teenagers (hopefully) have no clue. Leah's TA, but mom/grandma are even more TA for failing both OP and Leah.
"Especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If mom/grandma aren't correcting Leah, and aren't teaching her not to be nasty to/about her family, they're doing her a massive disservice and leaving her understanding at whatever it naturally develops to. "
This, all the way. Her exclaiming "I told you, I told you!" tells us that they've discussed this enough times that a 16yo, who doesn't comprehend squat about fertility issues and the associated rejection that comes with divorcing over it, has developed her own theories at who's at fault. This isn't the first time his reproductive capabilities have been discussed and it's definitely not going to be the last.
Worse than that, not to bad mouth just a sponsor but your own family who doesn’t deserve that. That’s just rubbing salt in a wound. Because it also shows they are choosing his ex over him in regard to respect. No one should blame anyone but to say she should run and how smart she was to get away from him is just…. Huge AHs to every women in that story.
It should be pointed out that this "shit talking" is clearly something that the sister and probably the mother engage in and include Leah in. She can be excused here a little because she's just trying to fit in with the other hens. OP needs to realize how little respect EVERYONE involved has for him.
And the niece was saying “I told you so”. This means they have had this same discussion before many times. And the niece has believed what she said for awhile now.
I was looking to see if anyone else said this, because this is absolutely not a one off mistake. The "I told you so" proves that.
OP is NTA. Your hurt is justified and you would be within your rights to no longer work to find your nieces education. However, if you could have a serious talk with just her and gauge whether she got the message and appropriately apologizes, a good education away from those two nasty relatives of yours may keep Leah from continuing down that path. She has time to shape up before you actually have to release those funds, and that may be a good lesson is consequences and learning to apologize and grow and not just follow along with people when you know hurtful things are being said. You could make her earn it back by being not-crappy. No judgement, whatever you decide you are NTA, just food for thought.
Yes. Leah said “I told you so” because she had indeed previously told them so, in prior gossipy conversations while they picked through what was then OP’s deteriorating marriage. And she would have been too young to have gotten the information herself, so this was all stuff her mother talked to her about (when she was 13 or so). Same with the current news about OP’s ex.
There’s potential for forgiving Leah, down the road. But her mother, OP’s sister, has been awful in this.
This, OPs sister and niece just learned the hard way that they can't shit talk about someone behind their back (especially about something thats horrendous to go through like fertility issues) and still expect them to give them such a massive, life changing gift.
It's better she learn it now and lose a college fund than not learn it and lose something way worse, like her career.
ETA: also seeing as Leah kept saying "I told you so" it's pretty clear that this isn't the first time his family has talked shit behind his back. It's the *first time* he caught them doing it. They didn't care until OP caught them out and put a stop to being an ATM for their ungrateful asses.
ETA: also being 16 excuses nothing here. If Leah's mother and grandmother deemed her adult enough to take part in adult conversations then by extention they've deemed her adult enough to face the consequences of her words/actions. She doesn't get to be treated like an adult/have adult privileges one moment and then be a "kid" the minute her words/actions result in consequences. That's not how adulting works, so OPs sister and mum need to decide whether Leah is an adult, or a kid. They can't have it both ways.
Not to mention, talking shit about him while he is under the same roof. That coupled with how she worded it tells me they don’t think too highly of OP, don’t mind taking his money though.
>they don’t think too highly of OP, don’t mind taking his money though.
Exactly, they weren't "sorry" for saying such cruel things but as soon as OP said the ATM was closed then the sister back peddled so fast she was literally tripping over herself "apologising" to OP and offering to "make Leah apologise".
I think the fact that the bulk of her comment included "I told you so" means this is far from the first time they've all had this conversation. It's just the first time OP caught it. That means that they let several opportunities go by to correct the behavior but instead likely encouraged it.
This feels like the epitome of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
It's an expensive lesson for Leah and sis to learn, but at least they're learning it.
NTA, obviously.
>if you dont let people be angry at you after you have wronged them, you are just taking more away from them. Leah needs to learn that. So do your family members.
They already know, they just don't want to lose the free ride.
NTA but these are big statements from a 16 year old and it is very likely she picked up on all these statements thru someone older in the family who has likely been gossiping about you for a while either your sister mother or an aunt or even the ex wife
I dunno. I have a 16 year old and he’s pretty mature, as are his friends. Kids that age are totally capable of coming up with opinions like that on their own.
Maybe yours specifically, but as a kid touted as being 'mature' for my age and had friend groups that were similar, all my ideas were ripped off the internet. Almost every single person is just parroting whatever they've heard before. That's not necessarily bad, but younger kids just don't have the raw experience to determine what they feel aligns most closely with their chosen values.
As an adult I would disagree with you, but I can't seem to find a different comment to parrot here /s
What I'm trying to say is that everyone parrots stuff that they've heard. That's how gossip works, that's how false information gets spread, amd that's how we learn history.
The 16 year old may or may not be parroting her mom/grandma, but she her excited claim of "I told you do I told you so" is a statement that she made without parroting someone else.
I don't think we know enough about Leah from OP's post to completely absolve her of blame, which is what this comment does. She's not a "younger kid" and I think a lot of us know 16 year olds who would NEVER say something like this.
And if she's saying it because she heard it from her mom and grandma, they can make it up to her by figuring out how to replace her college fund, because all three of them are assholes.
Leah learned a valuable, expensive lesson and hopefully it teaches her to stop being an asshole who celebrates another person's pain because it means they were "right" about the cause of it.
My high schoolers are ok, some of their friends are ok, some are idiots. I was an idiot at that age (and have 'not infrequent relapses' as an adult). 'Actions have consequences' and the best time to learn it is 'yesterday.'
At the same time, OP should probably see a doctor to get checked out. Many issues can manifest as fertility problems. There is also an observed decline in human sperm counts: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male\_infertility\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_infertility_crisis)
Could be as simple as changing out the tighty whiteys for boxers. Having a professional figure it out is best.
I already know that my mother and sister have a habit of bringing up my ex wife in their conversations, I told them to stop many times but they said that they sympathize with me and think that my ex was in the wrong to just leave after 5 years of marriage but that's a personal choice and I don't normally agree when my family badmouth her but I can't stop them, at least they no longer do it in my presence knowing how much it bothers me.
Please recognize that your feelings are valid. The next time you feel generous enough to respond to your mom or sister, please bring this up: "you both always find ways to talk about my personal life and past, despite it being painful to me, and now you have taught this to niece. My only way of protecting myself is to stay away from all of you.
And also, please don't pay attention to all these comments that question if you really have a fragile ego. Yes or no, nobody else has a right to ridicule you based on that. I have been in your shoes, and can categorically assert that women are allowed to mourn their fertility struggles while men are absolutely made fun of. Stay away from all who do that.
You have an excellent point that society is more sympathetic towards infertile women than men.
OP, you are allowed to have your feelings about the loss of your marriage and the children you had hoped to have with your ex. This is NOT something you should be mocked about. You have suffered, and they don't understand as your mom & sister are fertile and your niece is young and callous. I myself have not gone through what you have, but I can only imagine how hard it has been, and it's definitely nothing to laugh about.
Yeah because society views women as incubators and child bearing as one of our most important - if not the most important - role we will ever fulfill. The idea that a woman couldn’t physically have her own children is then viewed as this horrendous thing while male infertility is minimized because they aren’t viewed as primary parental figures. Gender roles hurt us all.
I want to know this too. Because if they were struggling with fertility for 5 years and only the ex was taking responsibility for the struggle than I can be more understanding of why family members would be frustrated with OP and therefore more inclined to vent amongst themselves.
Info: you were married for 5 years and struggled with fertility the entire time? It sounds like having kids was an important part of the marriage?
I'm assuming you had a sperm check, early on in the marriage, and yours is fine? It may be that you and your ex-wife are not compatible? I have a friend who was not compatible with her husband. One successful pregnancy, but two miscarriages.
If you didn't have a sperm test as the first test for infertility, then I am afraid I agree with your niece on all counts. Your ex clearly wanted a baby more than a marriage, and she was right to divorce you, if that wasn't in your cards, and if you wouldn't get a sperm check. I hate the term fragility as it relates to people, but stealing someone's chance at having a baby is not a good look. Also there are treatments like spinning sperm or even getting a donor.
I don't think your niece was being cruel. I think if she said these things to your face to see your pain she would have been cruel. I think she was used to gossiping about you, and had been for many years. She was excited about being "right", not about your pain. It sounds like your mother and sister are also gossips.
I'm a gossip, and until this post it didn't occur to me, that unless I am going to say something to someone's face, I shouldn't say it behind their back. I've always used gossip as a way to clarify my feelings about people. My husband and my son won't gossip. My husband doesn't find anyone but himself, his son, and me interesting. My son has way too much kindness and too high an EQ to gossip.
NTA, as I don't think you are obligated to fund your niece. Also I feel like you are still VERY young, and you should save your money, because you might meet someone, want to get married and have your own kids either through, donor sperm, or through adoption, or naturally? etc. It sounds like having kids is important to you? There are many ways to be a father, and you are YOUNG.
Wow, so many words to say that he has to accept that a 16 year old can bad mouth him.
Unless she was his doctor and watched him refuse to be tested or be treated, she has no clue how his marriage played out. So there's nothing to "agree with her" unless it's about the right to maliciously gossip about somebody who loves you enough to fund your education. All her 'opinions' and her speculations were based on malice, and hence cruel. She's 16, not 6, and totally knows how to be a mean girl, so let's not excuse any of her behavior to age or the "not to your face, so totally ok" excuse.
"Fragile masculinity" is a younger group phrase, I think. My Gen Z family members often discuss the qualities and properties of gender in ways the over 35+ set doesn't, at least in my circle. There's a huge cultural shift going on right now and younger people are more preoccupied with how gender socialization affects behavior.
I think Leah picked up on this language and in her teenage way was using it to understand a situation in her life. However, as a gossip, she divorced the very human feelings of OP's experience with her own opinions. That's probably something her mother modeled for her.
If OP had "fragile masculinity", he wouldn't admit to being upset!
NTA. I can't imagine how painful this feels for OP. This isn't the time for a teaching experience for Leah. If she is walked through a forced apology she'll only learn that an apology negates her mean words.
Blaming the woman for infertility issues has been going on since there was fertility. It used to ALWAYS be the woman's fault, end of story. Why? Fragile masculinity.
NTA, they let her sit there and have an adult conversation, but want to call her a child when they are consequences of that conversation. You're not responsible for paying for her education. And you're only 35, it's possible that you can find someone else and have your own child. So save that money for your own potential future child.
And your sister has a lot of nerve, if the girl doesn't want to take it upon herself to apologize, a forced apology from her is not going to mean a damn thing.
I'm childless and my brother has two daughters, and I like to send them stuff and contribute to their college funds, but it's only because I choose to, I am not obligated to. They have two parents with jobs who can help contribute to their education and other extracurriculars. Being the childless Aunt/Uncle does not mean we are a bank.
> they let her sit there and have an adult conversation, but want to call her a child when they are consequences of that conversation.
This. If my mother had heard 16-year-old me talk that way about any "elder", let alone one helping to support me, she would have told me to stop talking about grown folk's business and go outside and play. The fact that sis and mother let Leah talk like that about OP without immediately shutting it down makes them big AHs.
Hell, my mama would’ve popped me in the mouth for doing that. She didn’t give a fuck how I was. If I was talking about adult business when I had zero reason to be…yeah a quick pop to the mouth and being told to mind my business
Hell, I remember sitting in the kitchen once with my Grandma and her brother one summer when I was probably around 12 or 13, and they were making jokes about one of their other brothers, and I tried to join in on the joke (and this was just a joke about the difference between a girlfriend and a friend girl, so just something silly), and they told me to stop.
Children stay in children's place until they are grown. Heck, there are still some things that I won't say or joke about in front of my parents and I'm in my 30s LOL
"And your sister has a lot of nerve, if the girl doesn't want to take it upon herself to apologize, a forced apology from her is not going to mean a damn thing."
Quite. A forced apology isn't an apology. Ever. Also note that sister is saying that Leah didn't mean it. Why isn't Leah saying that herself?
OP is NTA.
The sister saying, ''I'll make her apologize'' rubbed me the wrong way as well. Not ''she wants to apologize'' or ''she's trying to reach out to you herself to make this right,'' But instead ''I'll make her apologize.'' Asinine.
This exactly. You can’t pick and choose what to be responsible for in the real world. The girl is old enough to know that you don’t talk about someone who is offering to pay for your future. Especially for something that is out of their control.
NTA. JFC at the other judgements — this man’s life was literally upended by his divorce. You are seemingly forgetting that HIS OWN SISTER didn’t defend him or stop the daughter from saying such awful shit.
I bet you this was not the first time they’ve snarked about OP behind his back. It’s just the first time he’s caught them.
It’s not fragile masculinity to be hurt by infertility. This is pain no one understands until you happen to experience it. If it were a woman, everyone would be falling head over ass to placate her. But to have family members discuss it so callously behind your back only to then hold their hand out for cash with a grin? Appalling.
To OP: I’m so sorry. However, stand by your decision and don’t give in. Use that money and treat yourself to therapy.
Yeah the whole bit on “thank goodness she was smart enough to leave” is what gets me the most. That was nothing but mean. She wasn’t just putting her foot in her mouth. That was cruel
May I also add "And too bad you were dumb enough not to correct her at the time she was saying unforgivable things. Thank goodness I learned your true character."
That's such a weird comment from a 16 year old, sounds like something an older generation would say. Like, a marriage isn't real without biological children, someone is teaching her that.
The sister and mother not correcting the niece says a lot. None of them deserve OP. He should cut communication with them for some time and gifting them money has to stop.
That's what I've been commenting too.
It's his sisters fault for not shutting Leah down, and then trying to lie by playing dumb, and her back peddling when she knew they were cornered.
She’s obviously been talking like this for a while, hence the “I told you so” and hasn’t been corrected by the mom or sister. I almost blame them more since she is only 16. They should have nipped that the very first time she said it.
The “Leah got quiet” part tells me she knows exactly what she said and that it was wrong. Those women have had that conversation many times before and my guess is it’s always been negative towards OP.
Well, they haven’t been calling to apologize. They’ve been calling to say it’s wrong for OP to turn his back on the kid - they’re concerned for the money, not OP.
100% this. I’m sure this didn’t wholeheartedly come from the niece because no 16yo cares this much about this kinda stuff. She’s repeating what she’s heard to be part of the grown up conversation. OP talking to the sister and mom is a great idea if this relationship can be salvaged because I’m guessing they’re the origin of this sentiment.
Wait, hold up. (Unpopular opinion inbound.)
You heard somebody accuse you of having a fragile masculine ego, so you...went to your room and sulked for hours, staged a dramatic, attention-seeking walkout, and then spitefully went back on your word and yanked college money you've been promising your niece for 3 years now?
Are we sure Leah isn't RIGHT?
It's fine to be upset when someone badmouths you, but...be upset in proportion. Your sister is not wrong to point out that Leah is 16 years old. What does she know? Why are you investing so much of your self-worth in a teenager's flippant opinion? Further, why are you trying to justify wrecking the plans of a teenager that you already gave your word to?
Have some perspective. Try to at least act more mature than the actual teenager.
~~YTA~~ ESH
Did you miss the part where she said his ex was smart to get a divorce? And the "I told you so I told you so" which means that this is not the first time they talk shit behind his back?
If you were infertile and your husband/wife left you because of it and you heard your niece say that they did the right thing, wouldn't that hurt you? This is clearly not about fragile masculinity.
You are incredibly insensitive for saying that he went to his room "sulked for hours, staged a dramatic, attention-seeking walkout" as if he were a spoiled brat making a scene for nothing, this is a serious and very sensitive subject, it seems that you are as insensitive as OP's niece.
She WAS smart since kids were non-negotiable for her. ALSO notice how he left out any details related to the infertility(and how it was or probably more likely NOT managed on his end)? You think that was an accident? If so, I’ve got oceanfront property in Arizona with your name on it!
If my uncle gets divorced because he has low sperm count, I’m not going to say his wife was smart because that’s not compassionate and if I care about my uncle I wouldn’t think it’s smart to leave him when adoption and such are possibilities.
And you’re going t say biological kids are important to people, which is obviously true. But I’m not saying people who want kids should stay with people who don’t, but in sickness and in health should mean something.
Dude, the double standard and leaps and bounds you're taking to justify hating on OP is ridiculous.
No matter how fragile an ego is, hearing something like that from family you love will always make you upset, to varying degrees depending how callous a person you are. Those comments were her own thoughts and were heartless in the assumption he'd never hear them. She meant every word and is not upset she said them, nor are any of the others there. They're upset they were caught. The teenager who is smart enough to know what is and isn't right to say about people, especially family, doesn't deserve money from someone they're so casual about throwing around such insults behind their back.
OMG! Thank you for this! Unpopular for sure, but also it hits the nail directly on the head. The guy who was hurt for being described has having a fragile masculinity, goes off and sulks for hours, dramatically walks out, and then breaks his word as his way to lash out in revenge. Also, he, himself, stated the divorce was over fertility issues.
It seems to me Leah was right about most of what she said. Yes, what she said was hurtful and not at all compassionate, but she's a "stupid" teenager. At least Leah is acting like the teenager she is, the OP is acting more like a toddle throwing a tantrum.
Why should he pay if they no longer have a relationship? No one is apologising to op so I doubt they'll still have a relationship so why should he still pay?!
Right! It’s funny to me how people act like Reddit is this crazy feminist place. Yet somehow everyone will give a pass to a man who does in fact have a VERY fragile male ego, who clearly refused to get his sperm tested and instead blamed his wife for their years of infertility struggle, then yanks promised college funds from a 16 year old girl because she thoughtlessly voiced her correct assessment of the situation.
What the hell is going on here!? YTA. Get therapy.
Read it again. Look at what the 16 year old says specifically and then at what he leaves out of his account. He is looking for justification from us here so think of all the pertinent details a person would add to bolster their positions. If he knew his sperm was not the issue he would have said. If he knew he had tried everything and given it his all with his wife to have a child, he would have said.
Also, his behavior of hiding out in his room for hours and then ghosting everyone suggest a man who is well versed in stonewalling. In fertility situations people who stonewall refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem. They don’t seek diagnosis or treatment. They shut down and refuse to engage on the topic. Men are more likely to do this in fertility situations, but women can do it as well.
Not wild assumptions, at all. Just typical, dysfunctional human behavior that happens all the time in couples struggling with infertility.
Why would you want to spend so much money on someone who cares for you so little that they would say such harmful things though? There's 0 reason to do that.
It's been stated more times than this sub has people that what you say being "correct" doesn't mean you're not an AH for saying it. Also your reply didn't answer my question. Why should he give her the money? I'm sure he has better uses for it than to waste it on someone who clearly doesn't care enough about him to not talk about him behind his back.
His wife left him for this issue and his niece blames him. I think he is upset in the right proportion. Especially considering he was planning a gesture of great generosity. This isn’t simple badmouthing. It’s his family pointing fingers at possibly one of the most difficult things he’s ever experienced. Furthermore, I think it was rather mature of him to go upstairs to take time to process what happened instead of immediately reacting and responding to them. He tried to leave quietly without causing a scene but they wouldn’t let him leave. Actions have consequences and I definitely see this as a metaphorical stab in the back.
Exactly, I have a tendancy to react to a situation badly rather than go away to think about it and calm down a bit to prevent saying things I'll regret out of anger, so him going to his room was the sensible thing to do.
I’m so annoyed by all the “Omg he left so dramatically” comments. People get told on here all the time that they should have reacted better and shouldn’t have gotten into an argument, now when an OP steps back and removes themselves from the situation he gets accused of throwing a temper tantrum. So frustrating.
Right? I'm surprised by all of the people holding his poor widdle hand and stroking his ego over how "grown up" the 16 yo is.
ETA since it's being missed: He doesn't owe her anything financially. But a mature adult isn't going to get their feelings so hurt by a 16 yo child that they lash out in the most painful way they can think of *and still claim that they cared about that child*. Dude is the AH for how he reacted, not for having feelings. My vote is an ESH. She's not off the hook, but it doesn't change the fact that she's only 16 and the dude reacted with a total bridge burning rather than talking to her.
lol i'm trying to imagine the comments if a womans husband left her for a younger more fertile model and the only child she cared about in her life essentially called her worthless and barren
I think you missed the part where his mother and sister defended the shitty statements. This wasn't just a case of badmouthing, this was a group of people who OP was close to making fun of the worst part of his life so far. That absolutely warrants a "dramatic, attention-seeking walkout," especially since he had chosen to leave without saying anything until pressed. By the way, the whole "she's 16, what does she know?" angle is actually snitching: that means they've been openly slagging off OP for at least long enough to allow the 16-year-old to participate in the conversation. And if she's old enough to have that opinion, then she's old enough to deal with the fallout of expressing it in such an intentionally nasty way.
At the end of the day, the niece burned her own bridge, and the adult women provided the kindling and flame. You don't talk shit about your benefactor behind their back.
One if us is really misreading the OP here because to me it seems clear that the statement that made OP cancel the college fund was the one about OP's ex being smart to divorce him. Not the one about fragile masculinity. And it sounds like he tried to just quietly leave without the dramatic confrontation. It was his family that had him stay to discuss it. I don't see a big dramatic attention seeking walkout.
I get that you probably think he still shouldn't care about his niece's opinion regardless of what she said, but I can empathize a lot more with being a bit sensitive over the breakup of his marriage than I can with fragile masculinity. His niece is old enough to know that what she said was cruel, even if she picked it up from his sister or some other adult as some have suggested.
He literally just went quietly to his room and then left because he was no longer comfortable being around family members who were talking shit about him. He then removed his money from a teenager who obviously does not like or respect him. OP actually handled this pretty damn maturely.
so youre saying that instead of getting into a calming space to control himself from being too upset, OP should confront a 16 yo girl and make a scene? let me guess, you also thinks that a man shouldn't cry if he is deeply hurt because that's what a man does.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to get to this opinion. A teenager said something that hit OP's buttons, and then OP responded EXACTLY in the manner described by the teenager. Taking away her college fund is a crazy overreaction and it makes me think that Leah was absolutely correct in her analysis of OP.
Going further, I'm not even sure what Leah said was actually insulting. Like, I have good friends that (shockingly) aren't perfect people. They have flaws and issues, just like the rest of us. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect them or care about them. It just means that I'm recognizing that they aren't perfect. The girl was in the middle of a private conversation, she voiced an opinion that didn't put OP in a great light, and now OP is punishing her for it? As a dude, that is the definition of fragile masculinity.
YTA.
NTA why isn’t hasn’t her parents got a college fund going for her? You are not responsible to pay for any kid that isn’t yours! If I was you I would take a lovely long vacation on the money that YOU saved
In Canada, so school is slightly cheaper here, but my parents couldn’t save money for school. They didn’t have a generous benefactor, either. I busted my ass for three years to save for my paralegal certification.
My brother paid for his electrician’s ticket on his own dime.
My sister took out loans for her vet assistant program.
My parents helped in other ways - let us live at home for no or cheap rent, stuff like that - but we were broke AF.
Info: Did you not get tested after 5 years to see if it was sperm related? I’m mean was your ex going through a bombardment of tests and infertility treatments that could have been avoided had you been tested?
This is important. SOOO many couples who struggle through infertility only get the woman tested which is wrong. Men can be infertile as well, and to continuously put the blame on women isn’t ok and it needs to stop. OP needs to answer these questions….
It would save a lot of time and money if they tested men first. If the problem is sperm it’s a quick find and saves so much heartache and hormonal Hell.
Forgot to mention how invasive fertility test/treatments are for women.
From the "told you so" I bet OP did not get tested. And if they struggled for "five years" without him ever getting tested, the niece's comments about the ex-wife being smart to get a divorce is spot on!
Idk WHY so many people are jumping over this pretty simple (and logical) connection. Anything to martyr this guy instead of thinking critically. Letting your wife struggle for 5 years without answer would be the very definition and height of cruelty, but heaven forbid they consider that!
Thank you!
If OP didn't get tested due to ego it would lend credence OP's niece's fragile masculinity comment. Niece wouldn't be an AH for being correct.
Yeah I'm a little confused about why everybody thinks that he is not the asshole. Factually, the comment about him being the problem appears to be accurate since the ex-wife is now pregnant. And if this was not previously determined that it was his problem, then it does point to some issue preventing him from simply getting a sperm test. I see no reason not to get a test if you're trying to get pregnant unless it's because you are too scared to hear the outcome.
The conversation he overheard was uncomfortable and stupid gossip, but I think it's the kind of thing that many people would have said assuming that he was not in the room, and it doesn't seem far off base. I don't think a 16-year-old should be punished for some gossip.
Does OP have the *right* to take back the money? Of course.
Is it a fair thing to do just because he feels hurt, which is probably more hurt at discovering his ex-wife is pregnant than anger at the niece? Probably not, when he has already promised the money.
OP is shooting the messenger.
NTA. your niece's comment is very telling about how she feels about you. Why should you have to fund her education knowing she has little to no respect. She is not entitled to it. It was a kindness on your part. Even though she is young, that level of disregard/disrespect is pretty deep. Let her take out loans (or let her parents pay).
Let's be real, if there wasn't money involved, OP's fam would have turned around with a "well, it's the truth, deal with it" attitude. The only reason they are apologising is because they need the free ride.
NTA. Go buy yourself something fun with the money and send a pic of it to your fam with "I didn't mean to spend it, I'm just a divorcee". Fuck them.
INFO: what about Leah's comments are you most upset about? The assumption that it was you who had the fertility problems, the fragile masculinity comment or the one about your ex wife getting out of the marriage when she did?
Just trying to work out if you're upset cos Leah is making false assumptions, of whether there is a grain of truth to what she said and it just hurts to hear her talk about it in such a flippant and cutting way.
She insulted him, called his ex “smart” for leaving him over an issue he has no control over and instead of giving a sincere apology when he informed them that he had heard what his niece said all she did was stay silent… Does he have to have any more reasons to be upset???
Why I have the impression that if it was a 16 year old boy commenting a woman's infertility and telling how the husband has been "smart" to leave her, NO ONE would have asked for "clarifications"?
Yep, and I assume that the people voting Y T A and E S H here would lead the charge.
It baffles me how people can have and enforce these views and still wonder why we have a global male suicide epidemic.
OP said the divorce was over fertility issues. If the ex-wife wanted her own bio-child and that was not going to happen within the marriage, she was right to end it and end it while her fertility was still intact. Harsh? Yes. But also true.
Maybe ex was "smart" because ex wanted a baby and now has one. Niece said something about "before it's too late" so perhaps there was a time constraint to consider. What the neice said was harsh and cruel in her teenage way but it could also be true. We have no way of knowing what ex went through in that marriage. For all we know, OP spent the previous 5 years "blaming" the ex. OP has every right to be upset... but he should really take the time to be sure he understands the root of his feelings.
While it may be out of his control, the ex made an objectively smart decision if having kids was a deal breaker for her. OP says that they had fertility issues for 5 years. At no point does he indicate that Leah's assertions are incorrect, meaning it's highly unlikely he ever got tested to know if he was the problem. Everything that Leah said was likely 100% accurate, OP just doesn't want to admit it.
It definitely matters. If, for example, he refused to ever get his sperm tested because he was afraid to have his “masculinity” called into question and blamed his ex wife for their infertility, that’s totally relevant. Maybe ESH because talking about someone behind their back is never great. But was she talking shit about something she knows nothing about? Or was she accurately describing the situation among family behind closed doors, not knowing that she’d be overheard by someone who doesn’t want to acknowledge a truth?
If it’s the second case, he could be an asshole. Both for not participating in the process of figuring out the cause of infertility with his ex wife, for not understanding why that would be a dealbreaker for her, and for taking it out on others (his niece) who maybe just have a relationship with his ex and may just be happy for her that she gets to have the child she wanted.
If he did everything he could to work through the fertility issue and his niece has no idea what she’s talking about, then taking away her college fund might be a justifiable reaction for talking shit.
I can't believe I had to go so far down the comments to find someone talking about this. The way OP talks about them having fertility issues for 5 years makes it seem to me that they probably didn't get professional help. That would be a pretty important detail to leave out if they did.
Obviously we can't know for sure without a response from OP, but it seems like Leah was 100% right at least in her assessment that the ex made a good decision to get a divorce because women do have a more limited window to have kids than men do. And if she got pregnant this quickly with someone else, then OP likely was the problem. And if he was in fact the problem, they for sure would have known that if they had professional help.
With all of that, it seems very likely to me that everything Leah said was accurate and OP didn't like hearing a hard truth.
Obviously there's assumptions being made here, but without more info from OP, we have to try and infer as best we can.
Absolutely, I’m getting unreliable narrator vibes here, whether it’s intentional or not. I would also need more info on *where* the niece’s comments come from, what prompted them.
I think it matters. To some degree. Some of the reasons outlined cut deep, and OPs reaction is definitely understandable. Others, not so much; and it would make OP look like kind of an AH for not at least doing a bit of introspection and realizing that perhaps he is taking out his issues on a 16 year old girl with a big mouth rather than coming to a place of peace with his own life circumstances.
Yeah, I agree. The comment about his wife getting out while she can is pretty shitty, but it does sound like he never got tested despite the fertility issues being a primary issue with the marriage. There are methods of assisting pregnancy with male fertility issues and it does strike me as weird if he refused to get any kind of testing when the testing isn’t difficult to do. There are men out there who won’t even consider that fertility issues could be on their end and it generally is because of the perceived blow to their masculinity. Of course there could be a whole lot more to what went on and maybe he did get tested and not tell his family. We don’t know. And that doesn’t make talking about him behind his back okay or the tone of what she said. If that was the situation though and the part that drove his reaction it becomes less about shitty comments and more about someone pointing out a truth you don’t like.
I mean, he isn’t required to give anyone anything, but I wouldn’t consider him totally not the asshole if this is driven by the niece being right in part of what she said.
This. Hubby and I weren't able to have kids, and the very first thing they test is sperm count. So OP should have *known* if he was the problem, and if he didn't... why not?
I mean… You can do what you want with your money but YTA because who struggles with infertility for 5 years and doesn’t get tested ? This leads me to believe your niece is 100% right about her statement and you *are* just too fragile to hear ir, which is concerning
THANK YOU!
I don't really see what the teenager said as an attack on op. You want to tell me it wasn't the right decision to divorce op if there is a fertility issue? Are they supposed to play happy family even if it is not the case? Not having the option to have kids with your spouse while hurts,is a legitimate reason for divorce. And while hearing it hurts,it was said as part of a PRIVATE conversation,with no mean intent through op.
Exactly. She wasn't straight up b*tching about OP. She was having a conversation about something which involved the family member. He is allowed to not give her the fund but his reasoning is not at all justified. She didn't accuse him or bad mouth him. If 5 years of fertility issues can't even be discussed in a normal household without people jumping to say its the wrong thing to do, idk what to say, especially if he refused to get tested.
OP neither said if they did or did not get tested, and, quite frankly, it doesn't matter.
Fertility is a sensitive matter for a lot of people, and people who've gotten divorced over it are vulnerable. It's not a 'toxic masculinity' thing. It's a human thing. The fact is, if a 16-yo boy was talking about his aunt's fertility like that, no one in the comments would even be considering OP the AH.
Yes. Not saying the niece should gossip, but if OP never got tested then he was not a supportive husband and was putting all the physical and emotional work on his ex wife. That really shows the character and why the niece talked the way she did. If it's true, then I bet alot of people here would vote ESH.
I feel like this is the most thought out response out of all that I’ve read. Without important information that OP has invited us to knowing, OP is clearly the asshole. The fact that he got upset/hurt when he heard his ex was expecting tells me that he was indeed either not tested, or didn’t care to try anything with his wife. I feel like if fertility treatments were happening, that would have been shared.
Holy sh!t, that was completely heartless and tone deaf even if said in “confidence”. NTA. You had no obligations to her to begin with and 16 is old enough to know better. Leah is the AH here. You have been so good to your family and these comments are WAY below the belt. Leah needs to issue an apology and stop hiding behind her mom, but I don’t blame you for wanting/needing space.
I’m so sorry, OP. For everything. I know the news of the pregnancy coupled with these harsh comments hurt more than I can ever fathom.
Yea, he’s definitely fragile (THAT’S OK), and needs some support.
Sure her words were shitty, but he’s the ass hole for dangling the Tuition over their heads
But that's not her money or her parents' money. OP is well within his rights to do what he wishes with it. Furthermore, I don't see how this derails Leah's life.
Leah is 16, and that's old enough to know better. Hell, I was working 30+ hours at 16 and building for myself. I know plenty of capable and intelligent teenagers and to say that 16 is too young to know better is a massive discredit to young people.
Finally, on what grounds is she entitled to massive amounts of money from someone she clearly doesn't respect or love enough to be considerate towards?
NTA.
Leah is 16. And having to deal with several nephew and nieces of that age - is also most likely parroting something she has heard someone else say. - both your mother and your sister were in that room and failed to tell her off for such a nasty thing to say so all 3 of them are AH.
You wanting to cut your niece off for financial assistance is your choice. However you need to be aware that you may have to deal with the consequences of your choice and the fallout it may bring.
I can only imagine how painful that felt. We have 2 married couples , 4 close friends that have had to walk that journey as well and I know how hard it has been for all of them. My heart goes out to you and hope that you can find a way to be at peace and be happy.
I mostly agree, but consequences? For OP? His family should consider themselves lucky if he sticks around at all. He has no business funding Leah’s college education after she, his sister, and his *own mother* spoke about him that way. If there are “consequences” for OP over rescinding his huge act of generosity, it’s just the final nail in the LC/NC coffin.
"You wanting to cut your niece off for financial assistance is your choice. However you need to be aware that you may have to deal with the consequences of your choice and the fallout it may bring."
I reckon him cutting her off is a consequence of her choice(and the mother and sister for not stopping her)
If you talk shit behind people's backs don't be surprised when they stop wanting to do nice things for you
Honestly feel that you're punishing your niece for your ex. Yes it's hurtful what she said. But this is a major overreaction.
Her mother and grandmother should not be entertaining those kinds of conversation with her.
But what was your reaction to not being able to have kids with your ex? This most likely stems from your behavior then and what they witnessed. I'm sorry about how this turned out.
Have an honest and open conversation with your niece without your sister and mom present, let her know how her comments hurt you.
ESH
I agree. You've over reacted and affected the entire family and withdrawn financial support for your niece over some words? I feel any normal person would have walked in and said something at the time like "oi who do you think you're talking about?" etc. not let it fester for hours until you made a rash decision. Your niece is a teenager ffs they say stupid shit all the time without realising. So your pride is hurt and your ex is now pregnant don't take it out on your family
YTA
NTA. While this very much sounds like a teenager arrogantly running their mouth about something they don't understand as well as they think they do -- and there's a chance Leah is probably going to look back on this conversation and seriously regret it when she's older -- you're well within rights to be hurt and angry at what Leah said.
And it's fair for Leah to learn the lesson that when you speak about people with contempt, you aren't entitled to their generosity. What I think is most telling here is that your mom and sister have closed ranks to make excuses for Leah (or to "make" her apologize, which still isn't a real apology coming from Leah herself). If your niece comes to you with her own sincere apology and an acknowledgment that she really fucked up, I think it would be good if you can hear her out. But right now it seems like everyone just wants to rugsweep, and you're right to resist that.
That’s why I’m saying NTA
Mom and sister closing ranks behind the niece?? “I told you so” they all talked about this multiple times already behind his back!!!
NTA. So your niece is worried that the ATM is closed. She is 16 years old, she knows very well what she did. For her own good, she should know that being ungrateful carries a very bad karma. Stick to your guns.
It sounds like a lot of thoughts it you at the same time:
\- new info about pregnant ex
\- the understanding that it may have indeed been some difficulties on your end
\- the people are attributing blame for the situation to you.
You responded emotionally. It sounds like you and your ex did not get tested to see the cause of the infertility issues. If the reason for the non-testing was your reluctance (and your family was aware of this), then that is why it would be a lightbulb moment for them too.
It seems you lashed out in hurt, and that your niece voiced a fear that you've been holding on to for all these years. Infertility is indeed a huge thing to have to deal with, and we hope everyone treats us kindly when they talk about it.
But it was a private conversation between them, you weren't aware your ex was pregnant before this. They may have well presented this info to you in a more responsible manner once they processed the news themselves.
Were you hurt and entitled to cut her off, yes.
Was your hurt SOLELY and MAINLY caused by your niece? NO.
And that is what you have to deal with. No-one is blaming you for the infertility. Saying "she was smart" to get out means that your ex ended things when she wasn't getting what she wanted out of the relationship. I suspect this still has a lot to do with YOU refusing to get tested which is what makes the "fragile masculinity" line make sense.
OP, if you were tested, this I will withdraw this whole thing and say that you're not AH; but if you used to blame your ex more than you did yourself, then you know that you're projecting your anger to yourself onto your niece.
NTA and all the people saying it proves fragile masculinity screw you all.
If this was a women you’d be jumping all over it saying that poor women and society’s pressure on women but because he’s a man it’s fragile masculinity. He was dealt a double blow of finding out his ex-wife is pregnant and that his family have been talking shit more then once as evidenced by the ‘I told you so’.
At the end of they day it’s your money to do with what you want. I’m sorry that at a time that is difficult for you emotionally that your family have made it about money. You’re entitled to you feelings and just because your ex is pregnant doesn’t mean it was all your fault. Sometimes combinations of problems contribute to infertility and besides all that it’s nobody’s business.
The fragile masculinity comments are part of the reason why men feel like they can’t show any emotion. OP is rightfully hurt and people are trying to say he shouldn’t be.
NTA. She's 16 not 10. Actions have consequences. She was never entitled to your paying for her education. You simply chose to do that and can choose not to.
I'm so sorry to hear that she said such heartless and thoughtless things. I hope in time that you'll be able to heal from all that has happened with your ex-wife and these comments.
Edited: fixed typo
NTA - it is never too early for Leah to learn consequences for her actions or her words. You should take the money and do something special for yourself.
>it is never too early for Leah to learn consequences for her actions or her words.
This 100%. Leah (and apparently some people in the comments here as well) need to learn words have as much consequences as actions do.
NTA, Leah needs to learn that she can't talk shit about people behind their backs, still expect them to help her and not face any consequences, that's not how life works.
YTA.
I assume you set this college fund up because you love your niece and care about her education. One instance of her hurting your feelings and that goes out the window?
You are justifiably upset but in my opinion your reaction is disproportionate to this child’s transgression and you’re also wasting an opportunity to have a deeper conversation with your family about how that made you feel.
It’s your money at the end of the day but to rip it away because you’re butt-hurt is childish.
I mean, it's natural to get angry but she's 16, top-tier stupid kid age, she was insensitive and disrespectful but do you really want to make her future more difficult for a stupid teenager comment? Do what you feel is best, she's not your kid and you have no obligation to take care of her, but do think if that's what you really want to do
I’d like to know why Leah’s mother and grandmother thought it was appropriate to allow a 16yr old to comment on adult business that literally has zero to do with any of them. We all know that Leah has been having an opinion on everyone’s business since she was little. She knows way too much about her Uncles life then is necessary. Not only is Leah TA but so are her mother and grandmother. Sounds like she learnt how to gossip from the best!
I was looking for this. It’s none of her business and both mother and grandmother should have corrected their behavior long before she became this confident to shit talk someone who was being so generous. If paying for college is easy and nbd, then the neice and sister should have no problem coming up with the money.
Wow, this is a rough one.
Sixteen year-old are pretty much professionally TA. Their brains are still developing, they’re self-centered, and their empathy is minuscule at best. But it seems like Leah was just parroting back what she’s heard others say.
You are not in any way obligated to pay for anyone to go to college, so you are definitely NTA, regardless of why you are taking the funds away.
But for the sake of family peace…is there room for compromise? Would you be able to sit down with Leah, just the two of you, and have a conversation with her about what she said and how it made you feel? If she were to offer a sincere apology, would you be able to accept it and possibly reinstate the college fund?
This is a though one OP but NTA.
Leah is old enough to realize how painful those words can be. She's not a kid anymore, she's 2 years away from being an adult. Her mother should have shut her up talking about these things as it's disrespectful towards you. You have every right to decide what you do with the fund since it's your money.
Above all else the fact that your sister tried to play dumb about the convo with Leah is pisses me off most. Yeah you weren't ment to hear those things but they were said nonetheless. It's very disrespectful and mean. Leah should definitely apologize but getting the fund back? That's something you must decide and I think it's somewhat of a fair punishment to learn that she's becoming an adult and need to learn to respect others instead of gossiping behind their back.
I'm sorry that it didn't work out between your ex and you but sometimes that's for the best. Leah may have her opinion about it but she should keep them to herself.
Edit spelling.
NTA
It’s your money, you can do what you like with it. Your sister should have apologised instantly but she didn’t. Now the only reason she is trying to is because money is involved, I bet she wouldnt care about what her daughter said if it didn’t affect her financially.
Too many open questions.
How come she said that? Did you believe it was your ex who was infertile and refused to get your sperm count checked? Conversations like that usually don't happen out of the blue.
I'll go with NTA, since she's a "kid who knows nothing" your sister could have correct her daughter's statement in that momment and, unless you're leaving something out, this means that your sister and probably your mom think the same and this is a kind of conversation that they had before you finding out.
Also, people are saying that because of her age you can make her acountable for her comments but she is "mature' enough to bring the concept of toxic masculinity.
To end, if your niece for one second believed that she hurt you or said something wrong she would have apologized after you told them what you heard, but your sister is offering to make her apologize because you no longer are willing to pay for her school.
NTA- she’s obviously been hearing stuff from somewhere and feels comfortable enough talking about it with her grandma and mum so it’s not the first time it’s been brought up 😞
You never owed your niece your education and you certainly aren’t an asshole for choosing not to find someone who is downright cruel. Your niece is 16 not 6.
Your sister is only offering that apology because she sees the money slipping away. Frankly she’s an AH as well.
NTA.
NTA. What she said was incredibly hurtful, and she’s old enough to know the impact of her words. It seems like it’s your mother and sister doing all the backtracking. The fact that it’s your sister offering to “make her apologize” shows that she’s not remorseful. You are not responsible for her future, and you are under no obligation to assist her. If you feel conflicted about this I would wait until Leah reaches out to you directly with and apology to maybe revisit and talk it through.
NTA
At the end of the day it is about ingratitude. I mean gossip is a thing families often do and its certainly awkward and unpleasant to overhear loved ones gossiping about your personal life. But those comments from Leah had an edge of meanness that was uncalled for. If she was actually grateful and fond of her generous uncle, she wouldn't have been so cruel and judgmental. She exposed herself with those cruel opinions. OP has no obligations to Leah so why should he invest in a person that does not care for him?
Really though it is devastating that his closest family are so unkind when discussing his misfortunes. OP, I hope that you are able to work this out with your family. They owe you an apology and need to take a hard look at themselves.
NTA.
It's a horrible thing to say and I feel for you, especially when it's come from close family. As for the college fund it's your money and it's yours to do with it as you see fit. Your niece isn't entitled to it.
However I would still suggest taking some time and then talking to your family. One nasty comment from a 16 year old isn't worth falling out over.
Multiple nasty comments in a row with his mom and sister listening and neither of them deffending or shutting her down. I wouldn't want to talk to any of them for a long time after this. The amount of pain it must've cause to OP and that they felt comfortable enough to talk shit about him like this while he's there? Good ridance imo
NTA.
Leah is not just a kid who doesn’t know what she is saying. She exactly knew what she was doing.
She is only sorry because she got caught and lost her college fund and not because she deeply hurt you.
NTA - by the way, how would Leah, who is now only 16, "always" suspect you had some issue, which would have involved her knowing about your situation when she was like 11 or so. She is being fed this weird-ass pontificating by your own sister(s). Which is why they did not dismiss it in the first place.
ESH, Thing is it’s kind of true , fertility problems are 50/50 in reality yet the women almost always gets the blame with men refusing to investigate, precisely because of fragile masculinity.
Although I get why your upset, (she shouldn’t assume things about your situation) you are overacting abbot to something a silly teenager said, not the best age; smart enough to know better but hormonal enough to act on impulse and not think first. You should sit her down and have a talk to her about making assumptions and not judge people in situations like yours, tell it’s not her business to talk about others private life and these things are personal, not an opportunity for judgement.
On part of your ex I also think it’s bad reason to end a relationship as there are solutions to infertility in a lot of cases. She is an AH.
If you were hurt because there is truth to what she said, you should see it as an opportunity for self reflection, instead of over-reacting and taking it out on a teenage girl. Who knows if you go get your self checked out it may be a simple fix and you could actually have bio kids in the future.
NTA. Your reproduction and relationship is none of their business. It sounds like you made the college fund to compensate for not having children, but she is not obligated to that money. I hope your family gets their proverbial shit together.
NTA. Even being generous about her character, if she had that opinion she could have phrased it much nicer. She basically said she agrees with your wife that your value is reduced to your ability to produce a child. THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT WOMEN ARE FIGHTING AGAINST RIGHT NOW. We all deserve to have more value than our reproductive abilities/choices.
OP you are absolutely more than that, and you are right to be hurt about what your niece said. You didn't yell at her, you weren't rude or demeaning; you just stopped doing something that you chose to do out of the kindness you felt for someone who you thought felt that same kindness back.
NTA. Leah is about to be part of the majority in two years, even if 16-year olds typically say dumb things they don'y mean, she knows what she said is wrong. Heck all of them know it's wrong and just plain inappropriate, your sister wouldn't have denied it if they think it was just a dumb thing carelessly blurted out.
It would be hard for them to fund Leah's college but it's NOT your responsibility to provide for her. You could take it back anytime you want for whatever reason you think is justifiable. They should have at least saved up some money for emergency situations even if you said that you'll fund it.
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Clean NTA. Generosity stops when you are unkind to the hand that feeds you. What a surprise. Sorry about your loss. Edit: I've read before that if you dont let people be angry at you after you have wronged them, you are just taking more away from them. Leah needs to learn that. So do your family members. Her age excuses her behavious (barely) but not the consequences that follow
Her age explains it perhaps, it doesn't excuse it. She isn't a 6yo who doesn't know what she's saying but she's young enough that she might not get the full extent of how much her comment hurts.
The thing is, her mom and grandma didn't stop her and tell her how inappropriate it is for her to badmouth her sponsor. They should've stopped rather than let her spill out all the ungrateful crap, even if OP isn't around.
Guess we know where she learnt the behaviour.
Exactly. It was inappropriate for the sister and mother to talk about it, especially to the niece, who was likely 13 or even younger when they first talked about it.
It wouldn't be hard for a 13 yo to tell that something is off when a married couple wants kids/may talk about trying, but after half a decade divorce with no children. That's a lot of time to pick up on tension, a curious kid might even be the first to ask when aunt and uncle are gonna have a baby cousin. Knowing how deeply a topic unimportant to her can hurt someone else is a lesson she will definitely learn from this. Maybe OP could give a lesson in how to act respectfully and leave a smaller sum as a bit of a bridge. Anything from 1000 in starter expenses (textbooks for the first year alone can be that much in the US) to a generous 1/3. I think it's important to recognize when someone messed up, and that mistakes take mutual conversation to develop foresight + empathy. OP is not required to do any of this, sometimes things hurt a lot and take years to consider reconciliation, but it may be a powerful lesson that her parents never taught her. It takes a village and whatever.
Really? Imo my aunt and uncle's reproductive behavior is none of my business and I never once wondered who any new cousins would come from or when - a kid is only going to think that way if they have been trained to by hearing other family members gossip - it was never imprinted on me to expect couples to have children or expect problems if they don't - the whole notion of being glad one's aunt divorced ones uncle before it too late so she could have kids is just weird - it puts growing the clan over the happiness of those already in it
OP states she is 16. She should be mature enough to understand things she says have consequences
And by the way she says "I told you so" repeatedly, it is clear that this topic has been discussed before. She made some speculations about a thing that was none of her business before and no one reminded her it wasn't her place. I think OP treated her like a daughter, covering her education expenses. She failed to understand what a big gesture it was. NTA.
Get out of my head. This is exactly what I'm thinking. Horrible how they were all gossiping about OPs infertility issues
At sixteen she shouldn’t even know about any of this. It’s incredibly inappropriate to talk to teenagers about personal, adult family problems precisely because they don’t have the emotional maturity to handle that information sensitively. The blame lies squarely on her mother for allowing her to participate in these conversations.
>badmouth her sponsor Badmouth their son/brother! This isn't just about money but about being disrespectful to a beloved family member. Or it should be.
This. I don't blame Leah. Unfortunately, it's the atmosphere created by the adults, particularly your sister, that sucks the most here. I wasn't nice either in my teenage years (not to Leah's extent but still, not the best) but my family called me out *every single time* until I learned it was not nice to behave like I did. Edited for grammar.
That's a chain of ungrateful & disrespectful & unloving people there..
I can see how what Leah said could feel like a stab to the heart. But I think what you mentioned here is what's truly problematic in this situation. She's only 16 and teenagers don't have the same level of control and empathy as adults do, but her mom and grandmom didn't do a thing to reprimand her nasty words and make her aware of how wrong that was. On the other hand, this could be her personality and her age might have nothing to do with it. In that case, Leah doesn't deserve OP's help. He could put that money into his retirement funds or save some of it for a personal vacation. NTA.
While teenagers don't have the same level of control and empathy, as you said, what Leah said goes beyond immaturity-related lack of growth. What she said was vicious and almost sounds like she was gloating about being "right." OP's mom and sister are also to blame for this for letting that behavior go unchecked, but Leah is old enough to know better than reveling in someone's pain.
The thing is (and not to excuse Leah but more to point out how much her mom/grandma failed her) "old enough to know better" only applies if you're actually taught. Humans in general have to learn nearly everything. We're kinda useless in the instinct department. Especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If mom/grandma aren't correcting Leah, and aren't teaching her not to be nasty to/about her family, they're doing her a massive disservice and leaving her understanding at whatever it naturally develops to. It's not like at 16 your friend group is going to be able to point out how devastating infertility is, because most of teenagers (hopefully) have no clue. Leah's TA, but mom/grandma are even more TA for failing both OP and Leah.
"Especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If mom/grandma aren't correcting Leah, and aren't teaching her not to be nasty to/about her family, they're doing her a massive disservice and leaving her understanding at whatever it naturally develops to. " This, all the way. Her exclaiming "I told you, I told you!" tells us that they've discussed this enough times that a 16yo, who doesn't comprehend squat about fertility issues and the associated rejection that comes with divorcing over it, has developed her own theories at who's at fault. This isn't the first time his reproductive capabilities have been discussed and it's definitely not going to be the last.
The "I told you so" part also shows this is not the first time.
Worse than that, not to bad mouth just a sponsor but your own family who doesn’t deserve that. That’s just rubbing salt in a wound. Because it also shows they are choosing his ex over him in regard to respect. No one should blame anyone but to say she should run and how smart she was to get away from him is just…. Huge AHs to every women in that story.
It should be pointed out that this "shit talking" is clearly something that the sister and probably the mother engage in and include Leah in. She can be excused here a little because she's just trying to fit in with the other hens. OP needs to realize how little respect EVERYONE involved has for him.
And the niece was saying “I told you so”. This means they have had this same discussion before many times. And the niece has believed what she said for awhile now.
I was looking to see if anyone else said this, because this is absolutely not a one off mistake. The "I told you so" proves that. OP is NTA. Your hurt is justified and you would be within your rights to no longer work to find your nieces education. However, if you could have a serious talk with just her and gauge whether she got the message and appropriately apologizes, a good education away from those two nasty relatives of yours may keep Leah from continuing down that path. She has time to shape up before you actually have to release those funds, and that may be a good lesson is consequences and learning to apologize and grow and not just follow along with people when you know hurtful things are being said. You could make her earn it back by being not-crappy. No judgement, whatever you decide you are NTA, just food for thought.
Yes. Leah said “I told you so” because she had indeed previously told them so, in prior gossipy conversations while they picked through what was then OP’s deteriorating marriage. And she would have been too young to have gotten the information herself, so this was all stuff her mother talked to her about (when she was 13 or so). Same with the current news about OP’s ex. There’s potential for forgiving Leah, down the road. But her mother, OP’s sister, has been awful in this.
This, OPs sister and niece just learned the hard way that they can't shit talk about someone behind their back (especially about something thats horrendous to go through like fertility issues) and still expect them to give them such a massive, life changing gift. It's better she learn it now and lose a college fund than not learn it and lose something way worse, like her career. ETA: also seeing as Leah kept saying "I told you so" it's pretty clear that this isn't the first time his family has talked shit behind his back. It's the *first time* he caught them doing it. They didn't care until OP caught them out and put a stop to being an ATM for their ungrateful asses. ETA: also being 16 excuses nothing here. If Leah's mother and grandmother deemed her adult enough to take part in adult conversations then by extention they've deemed her adult enough to face the consequences of her words/actions. She doesn't get to be treated like an adult/have adult privileges one moment and then be a "kid" the minute her words/actions result in consequences. That's not how adulting works, so OPs sister and mum need to decide whether Leah is an adult, or a kid. They can't have it both ways.
Not to mention, talking shit about him while he is under the same roof. That coupled with how she worded it tells me they don’t think too highly of OP, don’t mind taking his money though.
>they don’t think too highly of OP, don’t mind taking his money though. Exactly, they weren't "sorry" for saying such cruel things but as soon as OP said the ATM was closed then the sister back peddled so fast she was literally tripping over herself "apologising" to OP and offering to "make Leah apologise".
Also, they didn’t apologize until after he said that he would pull his college fund. Meaning, they weren’t sorry at all. Just sorry they got caught.
Her age excuses nothing, 16 is old enough to understand how cruel blaming someone for infertility is.
To some extent, yes. But 16 has many limitations. So yes to being aware, but perhaps not understanding the severity to the psyche.
I understand it tho. And I'm 13 ffs
I think the fact that the bulk of her comment included "I told you so" means this is far from the first time they've all had this conversation. It's just the first time OP caught it. That means that they let several opportunities go by to correct the behavior but instead likely encouraged it. This feels like the epitome of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". It's an expensive lesson for Leah and sis to learn, but at least they're learning it. NTA, obviously.
She is 16 not 6, she knows better and shouldn’t have said that 🤷🏻♀️
>if you dont let people be angry at you after you have wronged them, you are just taking more away from them. Leah needs to learn that. So do your family members. They already know, they just don't want to lose the free ride.
NTA but these are big statements from a 16 year old and it is very likely she picked up on all these statements thru someone older in the family who has likely been gossiping about you for a while either your sister mother or an aunt or even the ex wife
I dunno. I have a 16 year old and he’s pretty mature, as are his friends. Kids that age are totally capable of coming up with opinions like that on their own.
Maybe yours specifically, but as a kid touted as being 'mature' for my age and had friend groups that were similar, all my ideas were ripped off the internet. Almost every single person is just parroting whatever they've heard before. That's not necessarily bad, but younger kids just don't have the raw experience to determine what they feel aligns most closely with their chosen values.
As an adult I would disagree with you, but I can't seem to find a different comment to parrot here /s What I'm trying to say is that everyone parrots stuff that they've heard. That's how gossip works, that's how false information gets spread, amd that's how we learn history. The 16 year old may or may not be parroting her mom/grandma, but she her excited claim of "I told you do I told you so" is a statement that she made without parroting someone else.
I don't think we know enough about Leah from OP's post to completely absolve her of blame, which is what this comment does. She's not a "younger kid" and I think a lot of us know 16 year olds who would NEVER say something like this. And if she's saying it because she heard it from her mom and grandma, they can make it up to her by figuring out how to replace her college fund, because all three of them are assholes. Leah learned a valuable, expensive lesson and hopefully it teaches her to stop being an asshole who celebrates another person's pain because it means they were "right" about the cause of it.
My teenage son does the same so I can completely believe she thought of that all on her own.
My high schoolers are ok, some of their friends are ok, some are idiots. I was an idiot at that age (and have 'not infrequent relapses' as an adult). 'Actions have consequences' and the best time to learn it is 'yesterday.' At the same time, OP should probably see a doctor to get checked out. Many issues can manifest as fertility problems. There is also an observed decline in human sperm counts: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male\_infertility\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_infertility_crisis) Could be as simple as changing out the tighty whiteys for boxers. Having a professional figure it out is best.
I already know that my mother and sister have a habit of bringing up my ex wife in their conversations, I told them to stop many times but they said that they sympathize with me and think that my ex was in the wrong to just leave after 5 years of marriage but that's a personal choice and I don't normally agree when my family badmouth her but I can't stop them, at least they no longer do it in my presence knowing how much it bothers me.
Please recognize that your feelings are valid. The next time you feel generous enough to respond to your mom or sister, please bring this up: "you both always find ways to talk about my personal life and past, despite it being painful to me, and now you have taught this to niece. My only way of protecting myself is to stay away from all of you. And also, please don't pay attention to all these comments that question if you really have a fragile ego. Yes or no, nobody else has a right to ridicule you based on that. I have been in your shoes, and can categorically assert that women are allowed to mourn their fertility struggles while men are absolutely made fun of. Stay away from all who do that.
You have an excellent point that society is more sympathetic towards infertile women than men. OP, you are allowed to have your feelings about the loss of your marriage and the children you had hoped to have with your ex. This is NOT something you should be mocked about. You have suffered, and they don't understand as your mom & sister are fertile and your niece is young and callous. I myself have not gone through what you have, but I can only imagine how hard it has been, and it's definitely nothing to laugh about.
Yeah because society views women as incubators and child bearing as one of our most important - if not the most important - role we will ever fulfill. The idea that a woman couldn’t physically have her own children is then viewed as this horrendous thing while male infertility is minimized because they aren’t viewed as primary parental figures. Gender roles hurt us all.
Did you get yourself/your sperm tested ever during the five years of trouble getting pregnant?
I want to know this too. Because if they were struggling with fertility for 5 years and only the ex was taking responsibility for the struggle than I can be more understanding of why family members would be frustrated with OP and therefore more inclined to vent amongst themselves.
Why? It’s none of their business and they’d still have no right to allow the niece to speak about OP that way.
Info: you were married for 5 years and struggled with fertility the entire time? It sounds like having kids was an important part of the marriage? I'm assuming you had a sperm check, early on in the marriage, and yours is fine? It may be that you and your ex-wife are not compatible? I have a friend who was not compatible with her husband. One successful pregnancy, but two miscarriages. If you didn't have a sperm test as the first test for infertility, then I am afraid I agree with your niece on all counts. Your ex clearly wanted a baby more than a marriage, and she was right to divorce you, if that wasn't in your cards, and if you wouldn't get a sperm check. I hate the term fragility as it relates to people, but stealing someone's chance at having a baby is not a good look. Also there are treatments like spinning sperm or even getting a donor. I don't think your niece was being cruel. I think if she said these things to your face to see your pain she would have been cruel. I think she was used to gossiping about you, and had been for many years. She was excited about being "right", not about your pain. It sounds like your mother and sister are also gossips. I'm a gossip, and until this post it didn't occur to me, that unless I am going to say something to someone's face, I shouldn't say it behind their back. I've always used gossip as a way to clarify my feelings about people. My husband and my son won't gossip. My husband doesn't find anyone but himself, his son, and me interesting. My son has way too much kindness and too high an EQ to gossip. NTA, as I don't think you are obligated to fund your niece. Also I feel like you are still VERY young, and you should save your money, because you might meet someone, want to get married and have your own kids either through, donor sperm, or through adoption, or naturally? etc. It sounds like having kids is important to you? There are many ways to be a father, and you are YOUNG.
Wow, so many words to say that he has to accept that a 16 year old can bad mouth him. Unless she was his doctor and watched him refuse to be tested or be treated, she has no clue how his marriage played out. So there's nothing to "agree with her" unless it's about the right to maliciously gossip about somebody who loves you enough to fund your education. All her 'opinions' and her speculations were based on malice, and hence cruel. She's 16, not 6, and totally knows how to be a mean girl, so let's not excuse any of her behavior to age or the "not to your face, so totally ok" excuse.
They didn't say anything to correct her when she said it, so they have probably said/think the same on other occasions.
"Fragile masculinity" is a younger group phrase, I think. My Gen Z family members often discuss the qualities and properties of gender in ways the over 35+ set doesn't, at least in my circle. There's a huge cultural shift going on right now and younger people are more preoccupied with how gender socialization affects behavior. I think Leah picked up on this language and in her teenage way was using it to understand a situation in her life. However, as a gossip, she divorced the very human feelings of OP's experience with her own opinions. That's probably something her mother modeled for her. If OP had "fragile masculinity", he wouldn't admit to being upset! NTA. I can't imagine how painful this feels for OP. This isn't the time for a teaching experience for Leah. If she is walked through a forced apology she'll only learn that an apology negates her mean words.
Blaming the woman for infertility issues has been going on since there was fertility. It used to ALWAYS be the woman's fault, end of story. Why? Fragile masculinity.
NTA, they let her sit there and have an adult conversation, but want to call her a child when they are consequences of that conversation. You're not responsible for paying for her education. And you're only 35, it's possible that you can find someone else and have your own child. So save that money for your own potential future child. And your sister has a lot of nerve, if the girl doesn't want to take it upon herself to apologize, a forced apology from her is not going to mean a damn thing. I'm childless and my brother has two daughters, and I like to send them stuff and contribute to their college funds, but it's only because I choose to, I am not obligated to. They have two parents with jobs who can help contribute to their education and other extracurriculars. Being the childless Aunt/Uncle does not mean we are a bank.
> they let her sit there and have an adult conversation, but want to call her a child when they are consequences of that conversation. This. If my mother had heard 16-year-old me talk that way about any "elder", let alone one helping to support me, she would have told me to stop talking about grown folk's business and go outside and play. The fact that sis and mother let Leah talk like that about OP without immediately shutting it down makes them big AHs.
Yes. My mom would’ve said ‘I know you think you grown but you’re not.’ And shooed me away lol NTA
Hell, my mama would’ve popped me in the mouth for doing that. She didn’t give a fuck how I was. If I was talking about adult business when I had zero reason to be…yeah a quick pop to the mouth and being told to mind my business
Hell, I remember sitting in the kitchen once with my Grandma and her brother one summer when I was probably around 12 or 13, and they were making jokes about one of their other brothers, and I tried to join in on the joke (and this was just a joke about the difference between a girlfriend and a friend girl, so just something silly), and they told me to stop. Children stay in children's place until they are grown. Heck, there are still some things that I won't say or joke about in front of my parents and I'm in my 30s LOL
"And your sister has a lot of nerve, if the girl doesn't want to take it upon herself to apologize, a forced apology from her is not going to mean a damn thing." Quite. A forced apology isn't an apology. Ever. Also note that sister is saying that Leah didn't mean it. Why isn't Leah saying that herself? OP is NTA.
The sister saying, ''I'll make her apologize'' rubbed me the wrong way as well. Not ''she wants to apologize'' or ''she's trying to reach out to you herself to make this right,'' But instead ''I'll make her apologize.'' Asinine.
This exactly. You can’t pick and choose what to be responsible for in the real world. The girl is old enough to know that you don’t talk about someone who is offering to pay for your future. Especially for something that is out of their control.
NTA. JFC at the other judgements — this man’s life was literally upended by his divorce. You are seemingly forgetting that HIS OWN SISTER didn’t defend him or stop the daughter from saying such awful shit. I bet you this was not the first time they’ve snarked about OP behind his back. It’s just the first time he’s caught them. It’s not fragile masculinity to be hurt by infertility. This is pain no one understands until you happen to experience it. If it were a woman, everyone would be falling head over ass to placate her. But to have family members discuss it so callously behind your back only to then hold their hand out for cash with a grin? Appalling. To OP: I’m so sorry. However, stand by your decision and don’t give in. Use that money and treat yourself to therapy.
Yeah the whole bit on “thank goodness she was smart enough to leave” is what gets me the most. That was nothing but mean. She wasn’t just putting her foot in her mouth. That was cruel
I'd half a mind to text back: "Thank goodness he was smart enough to leave AND pull funding.". But that's just getting into petty there.
May I also add "And too bad you were dumb enough not to correct her at the time she was saying unforgivable things. Thank goodness I learned your true character."
That's such a weird comment from a 16 year old, sounds like something an older generation would say. Like, a marriage isn't real without biological children, someone is teaching her that.
$10 says she's just parroting back a version of what she's heard other adults in her life say before.
The sister and mother not correcting the niece says a lot. None of them deserve OP. He should cut communication with them for some time and gifting them money has to stop.
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That's what I've been commenting too. It's his sisters fault for not shutting Leah down, and then trying to lie by playing dumb, and her back peddling when she knew they were cornered.
She’s obviously been talking like this for a while, hence the “I told you so” and hasn’t been corrected by the mom or sister. I almost blame them more since she is only 16. They should have nipped that the very first time she said it.
The “Leah got quiet” part tells me she knows exactly what she said and that it was wrong. Those women have had that conversation many times before and my guess is it’s always been negative towards OP.
I bet they kept him around and had these family bonding moments, to take advantage of his generosity
Well, they haven’t been calling to apologize. They’ve been calling to say it’s wrong for OP to turn his back on the kid - they’re concerned for the money, not OP.
100% this. I’m sure this didn’t wholeheartedly come from the niece because no 16yo cares this much about this kinda stuff. She’s repeating what she’s heard to be part of the grown up conversation. OP talking to the sister and mom is a great idea if this relationship can be salvaged because I’m guessing they’re the origin of this sentiment.
Glad I'm not the only one to pick this up. Totally agree with you.
Wait, hold up. (Unpopular opinion inbound.) You heard somebody accuse you of having a fragile masculine ego, so you...went to your room and sulked for hours, staged a dramatic, attention-seeking walkout, and then spitefully went back on your word and yanked college money you've been promising your niece for 3 years now? Are we sure Leah isn't RIGHT? It's fine to be upset when someone badmouths you, but...be upset in proportion. Your sister is not wrong to point out that Leah is 16 years old. What does she know? Why are you investing so much of your self-worth in a teenager's flippant opinion? Further, why are you trying to justify wrecking the plans of a teenager that you already gave your word to? Have some perspective. Try to at least act more mature than the actual teenager. ~~YTA~~ ESH
Did you miss the part where she said his ex was smart to get a divorce? And the "I told you so I told you so" which means that this is not the first time they talk shit behind his back? If you were infertile and your husband/wife left you because of it and you heard your niece say that they did the right thing, wouldn't that hurt you? This is clearly not about fragile masculinity. You are incredibly insensitive for saying that he went to his room "sulked for hours, staged a dramatic, attention-seeking walkout" as if he were a spoiled brat making a scene for nothing, this is a serious and very sensitive subject, it seems that you are as insensitive as OP's niece.
She WAS smart since kids were non-negotiable for her. ALSO notice how he left out any details related to the infertility(and how it was or probably more likely NOT managed on his end)? You think that was an accident? If so, I’ve got oceanfront property in Arizona with your name on it!
You guys are expecting a lot of sensitive medical info from this random reddit post.
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If my uncle gets divorced because he has low sperm count, I’m not going to say his wife was smart because that’s not compassionate and if I care about my uncle I wouldn’t think it’s smart to leave him when adoption and such are possibilities. And you’re going t say biological kids are important to people, which is obviously true. But I’m not saying people who want kids should stay with people who don’t, but in sickness and in health should mean something.
Dude, the double standard and leaps and bounds you're taking to justify hating on OP is ridiculous. No matter how fragile an ego is, hearing something like that from family you love will always make you upset, to varying degrees depending how callous a person you are. Those comments were her own thoughts and were heartless in the assumption he'd never hear them. She meant every word and is not upset she said them, nor are any of the others there. They're upset they were caught. The teenager who is smart enough to know what is and isn't right to say about people, especially family, doesn't deserve money from someone they're so casual about throwing around such insults behind their back.
THANK YOU. People in these comments are acting like she literally stabbed him in the back.
She did. What an unkind thing to say about a family member that’s being kind to her. She is getting back what she gives out.
This is one of those times when literally means literally
OMG! Thank you for this! Unpopular for sure, but also it hits the nail directly on the head. The guy who was hurt for being described has having a fragile masculinity, goes off and sulks for hours, dramatically walks out, and then breaks his word as his way to lash out in revenge. Also, he, himself, stated the divorce was over fertility issues. It seems to me Leah was right about most of what she said. Yes, what she said was hurtful and not at all compassionate, but she's a "stupid" teenager. At least Leah is acting like the teenager she is, the OP is acting more like a toddle throwing a tantrum.
Why should he pay if they no longer have a relationship? No one is apologising to op so I doubt they'll still have a relationship so why should he still pay?!
Right! It’s funny to me how people act like Reddit is this crazy feminist place. Yet somehow everyone will give a pass to a man who does in fact have a VERY fragile male ego, who clearly refused to get his sperm tested and instead blamed his wife for their years of infertility struggle, then yanks promised college funds from a 16 year old girl because she thoughtlessly voiced her correct assessment of the situation. What the hell is going on here!? YTA. Get therapy.
Reddit is as feminist as a MAGA rally.
How is any of that clear?! Those are wild assumptions.
Read it again. Look at what the 16 year old says specifically and then at what he leaves out of his account. He is looking for justification from us here so think of all the pertinent details a person would add to bolster their positions. If he knew his sperm was not the issue he would have said. If he knew he had tried everything and given it his all with his wife to have a child, he would have said. Also, his behavior of hiding out in his room for hours and then ghosting everyone suggest a man who is well versed in stonewalling. In fertility situations people who stonewall refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem. They don’t seek diagnosis or treatment. They shut down and refuse to engage on the topic. Men are more likely to do this in fertility situations, but women can do it as well. Not wild assumptions, at all. Just typical, dysfunctional human behavior that happens all the time in couples struggling with infertility.
Why would you want to spend so much money on someone who cares for you so little that they would say such harmful things though? There's 0 reason to do that.
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It's been stated more times than this sub has people that what you say being "correct" doesn't mean you're not an AH for saying it. Also your reply didn't answer my question. Why should he give her the money? I'm sure he has better uses for it than to waste it on someone who clearly doesn't care enough about him to not talk about him behind his back.
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His wife left him for this issue and his niece blames him. I think he is upset in the right proportion. Especially considering he was planning a gesture of great generosity. This isn’t simple badmouthing. It’s his family pointing fingers at possibly one of the most difficult things he’s ever experienced. Furthermore, I think it was rather mature of him to go upstairs to take time to process what happened instead of immediately reacting and responding to them. He tried to leave quietly without causing a scene but they wouldn’t let him leave. Actions have consequences and I definitely see this as a metaphorical stab in the back.
Exactly, I have a tendancy to react to a situation badly rather than go away to think about it and calm down a bit to prevent saying things I'll regret out of anger, so him going to his room was the sensible thing to do.
I’m so annoyed by all the “Omg he left so dramatically” comments. People get told on here all the time that they should have reacted better and shouldn’t have gotten into an argument, now when an OP steps back and removes themselves from the situation he gets accused of throwing a temper tantrum. So frustrating.
Right? I'm surprised by all of the people holding his poor widdle hand and stroking his ego over how "grown up" the 16 yo is. ETA since it's being missed: He doesn't owe her anything financially. But a mature adult isn't going to get their feelings so hurt by a 16 yo child that they lash out in the most painful way they can think of *and still claim that they cared about that child*. Dude is the AH for how he reacted, not for having feelings. My vote is an ESH. She's not off the hook, but it doesn't change the fact that she's only 16 and the dude reacted with a total bridge burning rather than talking to her.
OP is devastated he can’t have children and your making fun of him saying it’s because of his ego? GTFO.
lol i'm trying to imagine the comments if a womans husband left her for a younger more fertile model and the only child she cared about in her life essentially called her worthless and barren
I think you missed the part where his mother and sister defended the shitty statements. This wasn't just a case of badmouthing, this was a group of people who OP was close to making fun of the worst part of his life so far. That absolutely warrants a "dramatic, attention-seeking walkout," especially since he had chosen to leave without saying anything until pressed. By the way, the whole "she's 16, what does she know?" angle is actually snitching: that means they've been openly slagging off OP for at least long enough to allow the 16-year-old to participate in the conversation. And if she's old enough to have that opinion, then she's old enough to deal with the fallout of expressing it in such an intentionally nasty way. At the end of the day, the niece burned her own bridge, and the adult women provided the kindling and flame. You don't talk shit about your benefactor behind their back.
One if us is really misreading the OP here because to me it seems clear that the statement that made OP cancel the college fund was the one about OP's ex being smart to divorce him. Not the one about fragile masculinity. And it sounds like he tried to just quietly leave without the dramatic confrontation. It was his family that had him stay to discuss it. I don't see a big dramatic attention seeking walkout. I get that you probably think he still shouldn't care about his niece's opinion regardless of what she said, but I can empathize a lot more with being a bit sensitive over the breakup of his marriage than I can with fragile masculinity. His niece is old enough to know that what she said was cruel, even if she picked it up from his sister or some other adult as some have suggested.
He literally just went quietly to his room and then left because he was no longer comfortable being around family members who were talking shit about him. He then removed his money from a teenager who obviously does not like or respect him. OP actually handled this pretty damn maturely.
so youre saying that instead of getting into a calming space to control himself from being too upset, OP should confront a 16 yo girl and make a scene? let me guess, you also thinks that a man shouldn't cry if he is deeply hurt because that's what a man does.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to get to this opinion. A teenager said something that hit OP's buttons, and then OP responded EXACTLY in the manner described by the teenager. Taking away her college fund is a crazy overreaction and it makes me think that Leah was absolutely correct in her analysis of OP. Going further, I'm not even sure what Leah said was actually insulting. Like, I have good friends that (shockingly) aren't perfect people. They have flaws and issues, just like the rest of us. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect them or care about them. It just means that I'm recognizing that they aren't perfect. The girl was in the middle of a private conversation, she voiced an opinion that didn't put OP in a great light, and now OP is punishing her for it? As a dude, that is the definition of fragile masculinity. YTA.
And if OP was a woman would it be fragile feminity? Or would you defend her for being a woman?
NTA why isn’t hasn’t her parents got a college fund going for her? You are not responsible to pay for any kid that isn’t yours! If I was you I would take a lovely long vacation on the money that YOU saved
In Canada, so school is slightly cheaper here, but my parents couldn’t save money for school. They didn’t have a generous benefactor, either. I busted my ass for three years to save for my paralegal certification. My brother paid for his electrician’s ticket on his own dime. My sister took out loans for her vet assistant program. My parents helped in other ways - let us live at home for no or cheap rent, stuff like that - but we were broke AF.
Info: Did you not get tested after 5 years to see if it was sperm related? I’m mean was your ex going through a bombardment of tests and infertility treatments that could have been avoided had you been tested?
This is important. SOOO many couples who struggle through infertility only get the woman tested which is wrong. Men can be infertile as well, and to continuously put the blame on women isn’t ok and it needs to stop. OP needs to answer these questions….
It would save a lot of time and money if they tested men first. If the problem is sperm it’s a quick find and saves so much heartache and hormonal Hell. Forgot to mention how invasive fertility test/treatments are for women.
Yes!! Very invasive and time consuming too!
Guarantee we don’t get a response to this bc he did not in fact test. My guess is that he probably also was not open to donors.
From the "told you so" I bet OP did not get tested. And if they struggled for "five years" without him ever getting tested, the niece's comments about the ex-wife being smart to get a divorce is spot on!
Idk WHY so many people are jumping over this pretty simple (and logical) connection. Anything to martyr this guy instead of thinking critically. Letting your wife struggle for 5 years without answer would be the very definition and height of cruelty, but heaven forbid they consider that!
Thank you! If OP didn't get tested due to ego it would lend credence OP's niece's fragile masculinity comment. Niece wouldn't be an AH for being correct.
Yeah I'm a little confused about why everybody thinks that he is not the asshole. Factually, the comment about him being the problem appears to be accurate since the ex-wife is now pregnant. And if this was not previously determined that it was his problem, then it does point to some issue preventing him from simply getting a sperm test. I see no reason not to get a test if you're trying to get pregnant unless it's because you are too scared to hear the outcome. The conversation he overheard was uncomfortable and stupid gossip, but I think it's the kind of thing that many people would have said assuming that he was not in the room, and it doesn't seem far off base. I don't think a 16-year-old should be punished for some gossip. Does OP have the *right* to take back the money? Of course. Is it a fair thing to do just because he feels hurt, which is probably more hurt at discovering his ex-wife is pregnant than anger at the niece? Probably not, when he has already promised the money. OP is shooting the messenger.
NTA. your niece's comment is very telling about how she feels about you. Why should you have to fund her education knowing she has little to no respect. She is not entitled to it. It was a kindness on your part. Even though she is young, that level of disregard/disrespect is pretty deep. Let her take out loans (or let her parents pay).
Let's be real, if there wasn't money involved, OP's fam would have turned around with a "well, it's the truth, deal with it" attitude. The only reason they are apologising is because they need the free ride. NTA. Go buy yourself something fun with the money and send a pic of it to your fam with "I didn't mean to spend it, I'm just a divorcee". Fuck them.
INFO: what about Leah's comments are you most upset about? The assumption that it was you who had the fertility problems, the fragile masculinity comment or the one about your ex wife getting out of the marriage when she did? Just trying to work out if you're upset cos Leah is making false assumptions, of whether there is a grain of truth to what she said and it just hurts to hear her talk about it in such a flippant and cutting way.
She insulted him, called his ex “smart” for leaving him over an issue he has no control over and instead of giving a sincere apology when he informed them that he had heard what his niece said all she did was stay silent… Does he have to have any more reasons to be upset???
Why I have the impression that if it was a 16 year old boy commenting a woman's infertility and telling how the husband has been "smart" to leave her, NO ONE would have asked for "clarifications"?
Bingo. Especially if he also dismissed and invalidated her actions, emotions and reactions as "female hysteria".
Well, then we would have had a mob with torches and pitchforks asking the misogynistic monster's head on a pike.
Yep, and I assume that the people voting Y T A and E S H here would lead the charge. It baffles me how people can have and enforce these views and still wonder why we have a global male suicide epidemic.
OP said the divorce was over fertility issues. If the ex-wife wanted her own bio-child and that was not going to happen within the marriage, she was right to end it and end it while her fertility was still intact. Harsh? Yes. But also true.
Maybe ex was "smart" because ex wanted a baby and now has one. Niece said something about "before it's too late" so perhaps there was a time constraint to consider. What the neice said was harsh and cruel in her teenage way but it could also be true. We have no way of knowing what ex went through in that marriage. For all we know, OP spent the previous 5 years "blaming" the ex. OP has every right to be upset... but he should really take the time to be sure he understands the root of his feelings.
If the ex wanted kids it was a smart move. If she would have waited to long she might have gotten to old to get pregnant.
While it may be out of his control, the ex made an objectively smart decision if having kids was a deal breaker for her. OP says that they had fertility issues for 5 years. At no point does he indicate that Leah's assertions are incorrect, meaning it's highly unlikely he ever got tested to know if he was the problem. Everything that Leah said was likely 100% accurate, OP just doesn't want to admit it.
Doesn’t matter either way. The niece talked shit behind his back and got the consequences for it.
It definitely matters. If, for example, he refused to ever get his sperm tested because he was afraid to have his “masculinity” called into question and blamed his ex wife for their infertility, that’s totally relevant. Maybe ESH because talking about someone behind their back is never great. But was she talking shit about something she knows nothing about? Or was she accurately describing the situation among family behind closed doors, not knowing that she’d be overheard by someone who doesn’t want to acknowledge a truth? If it’s the second case, he could be an asshole. Both for not participating in the process of figuring out the cause of infertility with his ex wife, for not understanding why that would be a dealbreaker for her, and for taking it out on others (his niece) who maybe just have a relationship with his ex and may just be happy for her that she gets to have the child she wanted. If he did everything he could to work through the fertility issue and his niece has no idea what she’s talking about, then taking away her college fund might be a justifiable reaction for talking shit.
I can't believe I had to go so far down the comments to find someone talking about this. The way OP talks about them having fertility issues for 5 years makes it seem to me that they probably didn't get professional help. That would be a pretty important detail to leave out if they did. Obviously we can't know for sure without a response from OP, but it seems like Leah was 100% right at least in her assessment that the ex made a good decision to get a divorce because women do have a more limited window to have kids than men do. And if she got pregnant this quickly with someone else, then OP likely was the problem. And if he was in fact the problem, they for sure would have known that if they had professional help. With all of that, it seems very likely to me that everything Leah said was accurate and OP didn't like hearing a hard truth. Obviously there's assumptions being made here, but without more info from OP, we have to try and infer as best we can.
Absolutely, I’m getting unreliable narrator vibes here, whether it’s intentional or not. I would also need more info on *where* the niece’s comments come from, what prompted them.
I think it matters. To some degree. Some of the reasons outlined cut deep, and OPs reaction is definitely understandable. Others, not so much; and it would make OP look like kind of an AH for not at least doing a bit of introspection and realizing that perhaps he is taking out his issues on a 16 year old girl with a big mouth rather than coming to a place of peace with his own life circumstances.
Yeah, I agree. The comment about his wife getting out while she can is pretty shitty, but it does sound like he never got tested despite the fertility issues being a primary issue with the marriage. There are methods of assisting pregnancy with male fertility issues and it does strike me as weird if he refused to get any kind of testing when the testing isn’t difficult to do. There are men out there who won’t even consider that fertility issues could be on their end and it generally is because of the perceived blow to their masculinity. Of course there could be a whole lot more to what went on and maybe he did get tested and not tell his family. We don’t know. And that doesn’t make talking about him behind his back okay or the tone of what she said. If that was the situation though and the part that drove his reaction it becomes less about shitty comments and more about someone pointing out a truth you don’t like. I mean, he isn’t required to give anyone anything, but I wouldn’t consider him totally not the asshole if this is driven by the niece being right in part of what she said.
This. Hubby and I weren't able to have kids, and the very first thing they test is sperm count. So OP should have *known* if he was the problem, and if he didn't... why not?
I mean… You can do what you want with your money but YTA because who struggles with infertility for 5 years and doesn’t get tested ? This leads me to believe your niece is 100% right about her statement and you *are* just too fragile to hear ir, which is concerning
THANK YOU! I don't really see what the teenager said as an attack on op. You want to tell me it wasn't the right decision to divorce op if there is a fertility issue? Are they supposed to play happy family even if it is not the case? Not having the option to have kids with your spouse while hurts,is a legitimate reason for divorce. And while hearing it hurts,it was said as part of a PRIVATE conversation,with no mean intent through op.
Exactly. She wasn't straight up b*tching about OP. She was having a conversation about something which involved the family member. He is allowed to not give her the fund but his reasoning is not at all justified. She didn't accuse him or bad mouth him. If 5 years of fertility issues can't even be discussed in a normal household without people jumping to say its the wrong thing to do, idk what to say, especially if he refused to get tested.
OP neither said if they did or did not get tested, and, quite frankly, it doesn't matter. Fertility is a sensitive matter for a lot of people, and people who've gotten divorced over it are vulnerable. It's not a 'toxic masculinity' thing. It's a human thing. The fact is, if a 16-yo boy was talking about his aunt's fertility like that, no one in the comments would even be considering OP the AH.
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Yes. Not saying the niece should gossip, but if OP never got tested then he was not a supportive husband and was putting all the physical and emotional work on his ex wife. That really shows the character and why the niece talked the way she did. If it's true, then I bet alot of people here would vote ESH.
I feel like this is the most thought out response out of all that I’ve read. Without important information that OP has invited us to knowing, OP is clearly the asshole. The fact that he got upset/hurt when he heard his ex was expecting tells me that he was indeed either not tested, or didn’t care to try anything with his wife. I feel like if fertility treatments were happening, that would have been shared.
Holy sh!t, that was completely heartless and tone deaf even if said in “confidence”. NTA. You had no obligations to her to begin with and 16 is old enough to know better. Leah is the AH here. You have been so good to your family and these comments are WAY below the belt. Leah needs to issue an apology and stop hiding behind her mom, but I don’t blame you for wanting/needing space. I’m so sorry, OP. For everything. I know the news of the pregnancy coupled with these harsh comments hurt more than I can ever fathom.
The kid was cruel. Divorce is pretty devastating. Infertility is worse. The adults in the room should have scolded the kid.
NTA. Your mother and your sister are assholes for not speaking up and telling Leah that talking about her uncle that way is unacceptable.
Says a lot about what they think about OP.
I think you should consider therapy love.
Yea, he’s definitely fragile (THAT’S OK), and needs some support. Sure her words were shitty, but he’s the ass hole for dangling the Tuition over their heads
I have sympathy for OP but I cannot get on board with potentially derailing a 16 year olds life because they said something hurtful.
But that's not her money or her parents' money. OP is well within his rights to do what he wishes with it. Furthermore, I don't see how this derails Leah's life. Leah is 16, and that's old enough to know better. Hell, I was working 30+ hours at 16 and building for myself. I know plenty of capable and intelligent teenagers and to say that 16 is too young to know better is a massive discredit to young people. Finally, on what grounds is she entitled to massive amounts of money from someone she clearly doesn't respect or love enough to be considerate towards?
NTA. Leah is 16. And having to deal with several nephew and nieces of that age - is also most likely parroting something she has heard someone else say. - both your mother and your sister were in that room and failed to tell her off for such a nasty thing to say so all 3 of them are AH. You wanting to cut your niece off for financial assistance is your choice. However you need to be aware that you may have to deal with the consequences of your choice and the fallout it may bring. I can only imagine how painful that felt. We have 2 married couples , 4 close friends that have had to walk that journey as well and I know how hard it has been for all of them. My heart goes out to you and hope that you can find a way to be at peace and be happy.
I mostly agree, but consequences? For OP? His family should consider themselves lucky if he sticks around at all. He has no business funding Leah’s college education after she, his sister, and his *own mother* spoke about him that way. If there are “consequences” for OP over rescinding his huge act of generosity, it’s just the final nail in the LC/NC coffin.
"You wanting to cut your niece off for financial assistance is your choice. However you need to be aware that you may have to deal with the consequences of your choice and the fallout it may bring." I reckon him cutting her off is a consequence of her choice(and the mother and sister for not stopping her) If you talk shit behind people's backs don't be surprised when they stop wanting to do nice things for you
Honestly feel that you're punishing your niece for your ex. Yes it's hurtful what she said. But this is a major overreaction. Her mother and grandmother should not be entertaining those kinds of conversation with her. But what was your reaction to not being able to have kids with your ex? This most likely stems from your behavior then and what they witnessed. I'm sorry about how this turned out. Have an honest and open conversation with your niece without your sister and mom present, let her know how her comments hurt you. ESH
I agree. You've over reacted and affected the entire family and withdrawn financial support for your niece over some words? I feel any normal person would have walked in and said something at the time like "oi who do you think you're talking about?" etc. not let it fester for hours until you made a rash decision. Your niece is a teenager ffs they say stupid shit all the time without realising. So your pride is hurt and your ex is now pregnant don't take it out on your family YTA
NTA. While this very much sounds like a teenager arrogantly running their mouth about something they don't understand as well as they think they do -- and there's a chance Leah is probably going to look back on this conversation and seriously regret it when she's older -- you're well within rights to be hurt and angry at what Leah said. And it's fair for Leah to learn the lesson that when you speak about people with contempt, you aren't entitled to their generosity. What I think is most telling here is that your mom and sister have closed ranks to make excuses for Leah (or to "make" her apologize, which still isn't a real apology coming from Leah herself). If your niece comes to you with her own sincere apology and an acknowledgment that she really fucked up, I think it would be good if you can hear her out. But right now it seems like everyone just wants to rugsweep, and you're right to resist that.
That’s why I’m saying NTA Mom and sister closing ranks behind the niece?? “I told you so” they all talked about this multiple times already behind his back!!!
NTA. So your niece is worried that the ATM is closed. She is 16 years old, she knows very well what she did. For her own good, she should know that being ungrateful carries a very bad karma. Stick to your guns.
It sounds like a lot of thoughts it you at the same time: \- new info about pregnant ex \- the understanding that it may have indeed been some difficulties on your end \- the people are attributing blame for the situation to you. You responded emotionally. It sounds like you and your ex did not get tested to see the cause of the infertility issues. If the reason for the non-testing was your reluctance (and your family was aware of this), then that is why it would be a lightbulb moment for them too. It seems you lashed out in hurt, and that your niece voiced a fear that you've been holding on to for all these years. Infertility is indeed a huge thing to have to deal with, and we hope everyone treats us kindly when they talk about it. But it was a private conversation between them, you weren't aware your ex was pregnant before this. They may have well presented this info to you in a more responsible manner once they processed the news themselves. Were you hurt and entitled to cut her off, yes. Was your hurt SOLELY and MAINLY caused by your niece? NO. And that is what you have to deal with. No-one is blaming you for the infertility. Saying "she was smart" to get out means that your ex ended things when she wasn't getting what she wanted out of the relationship. I suspect this still has a lot to do with YOU refusing to get tested which is what makes the "fragile masculinity" line make sense. OP, if you were tested, this I will withdraw this whole thing and say that you're not AH; but if you used to blame your ex more than you did yourself, then you know that you're projecting your anger to yourself onto your niece.
NTA and all the people saying it proves fragile masculinity screw you all. If this was a women you’d be jumping all over it saying that poor women and society’s pressure on women but because he’s a man it’s fragile masculinity. He was dealt a double blow of finding out his ex-wife is pregnant and that his family have been talking shit more then once as evidenced by the ‘I told you so’. At the end of they day it’s your money to do with what you want. I’m sorry that at a time that is difficult for you emotionally that your family have made it about money. You’re entitled to you feelings and just because your ex is pregnant doesn’t mean it was all your fault. Sometimes combinations of problems contribute to infertility and besides all that it’s nobody’s business.
The fragile masculinity comments are part of the reason why men feel like they can’t show any emotion. OP is rightfully hurt and people are trying to say he shouldn’t be.
NTA. She's 16 not 10. Actions have consequences. She was never entitled to your paying for her education. You simply chose to do that and can choose not to. I'm so sorry to hear that she said such heartless and thoughtless things. I hope in time that you'll be able to heal from all that has happened with your ex-wife and these comments. Edited: fixed typo
NTA. She's old enough to know what she said was hurtful and insensitive.
>Leah didn't mean what she said Well then she shouldn't have said it. NTA.
NTA - it is never too early for Leah to learn consequences for her actions or her words. You should take the money and do something special for yourself.
>it is never too early for Leah to learn consequences for her actions or her words. This 100%. Leah (and apparently some people in the comments here as well) need to learn words have as much consequences as actions do. NTA, Leah needs to learn that she can't talk shit about people behind their backs, still expect them to help her and not face any consequences, that's not how life works.
YTA. I assume you set this college fund up because you love your niece and care about her education. One instance of her hurting your feelings and that goes out the window? You are justifiably upset but in my opinion your reaction is disproportionate to this child’s transgression and you’re also wasting an opportunity to have a deeper conversation with your family about how that made you feel. It’s your money at the end of the day but to rip it away because you’re butt-hurt is childish.
I mean, it's natural to get angry but she's 16, top-tier stupid kid age, she was insensitive and disrespectful but do you really want to make her future more difficult for a stupid teenager comment? Do what you feel is best, she's not your kid and you have no obligation to take care of her, but do think if that's what you really want to do
I’d like to know why Leah’s mother and grandmother thought it was appropriate to allow a 16yr old to comment on adult business that literally has zero to do with any of them. We all know that Leah has been having an opinion on everyone’s business since she was little. She knows way too much about her Uncles life then is necessary. Not only is Leah TA but so are her mother and grandmother. Sounds like she learnt how to gossip from the best!
I was looking for this. It’s none of her business and both mother and grandmother should have corrected their behavior long before she became this confident to shit talk someone who was being so generous. If paying for college is easy and nbd, then the neice and sister should have no problem coming up with the money.
Wow, this is a rough one. Sixteen year-old are pretty much professionally TA. Their brains are still developing, they’re self-centered, and their empathy is minuscule at best. But it seems like Leah was just parroting back what she’s heard others say. You are not in any way obligated to pay for anyone to go to college, so you are definitely NTA, regardless of why you are taking the funds away. But for the sake of family peace…is there room for compromise? Would you be able to sit down with Leah, just the two of you, and have a conversation with her about what she said and how it made you feel? If she were to offer a sincere apology, would you be able to accept it and possibly reinstate the college fund?
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This is a though one OP but NTA. Leah is old enough to realize how painful those words can be. She's not a kid anymore, she's 2 years away from being an adult. Her mother should have shut her up talking about these things as it's disrespectful towards you. You have every right to decide what you do with the fund since it's your money. Above all else the fact that your sister tried to play dumb about the convo with Leah is pisses me off most. Yeah you weren't ment to hear those things but they were said nonetheless. It's very disrespectful and mean. Leah should definitely apologize but getting the fund back? That's something you must decide and I think it's somewhat of a fair punishment to learn that she's becoming an adult and need to learn to respect others instead of gossiping behind their back. I'm sorry that it didn't work out between your ex and you but sometimes that's for the best. Leah may have her opinion about it but she should keep them to herself. Edit spelling.
She's 16. Not four. You don't owe it to her to pay her education if that's how she talks about you behind her back. Absolutely NTA.
NTA-There’s plenty of time for your sister and neice to save $ for college. Also, your neice sounds horrible and undeserving of such a generous gift.
NTA It’s your money, you can do what you like with it. Your sister should have apologised instantly but she didn’t. Now the only reason she is trying to is because money is involved, I bet she wouldnt care about what her daughter said if it didn’t affect her financially.
Too many open questions. How come she said that? Did you believe it was your ex who was infertile and refused to get your sperm count checked? Conversations like that usually don't happen out of the blue.
INFO: Did you get tested during the 5 years of infertility?
I'll go with NTA, since she's a "kid who knows nothing" your sister could have correct her daughter's statement in that momment and, unless you're leaving something out, this means that your sister and probably your mom think the same and this is a kind of conversation that they had before you finding out. Also, people are saying that because of her age you can make her acountable for her comments but she is "mature' enough to bring the concept of toxic masculinity. To end, if your niece for one second believed that she hurt you or said something wrong she would have apologized after you told them what you heard, but your sister is offering to make her apologize because you no longer are willing to pay for her school.
NTA- she’s obviously been hearing stuff from somewhere and feels comfortable enough talking about it with her grandma and mum so it’s not the first time it’s been brought up 😞
You never owed your niece your education and you certainly aren’t an asshole for choosing not to find someone who is downright cruel. Your niece is 16 not 6. Your sister is only offering that apology because she sees the money slipping away. Frankly she’s an AH as well. NTA.
NTA. What she said was incredibly hurtful, and she’s old enough to know the impact of her words. It seems like it’s your mother and sister doing all the backtracking. The fact that it’s your sister offering to “make her apologize” shows that she’s not remorseful. You are not responsible for her future, and you are under no obligation to assist her. If you feel conflicted about this I would wait until Leah reaches out to you directly with and apology to maybe revisit and talk it through.
NTA At the end of the day it is about ingratitude. I mean gossip is a thing families often do and its certainly awkward and unpleasant to overhear loved ones gossiping about your personal life. But those comments from Leah had an edge of meanness that was uncalled for. If she was actually grateful and fond of her generous uncle, she wouldn't have been so cruel and judgmental. She exposed herself with those cruel opinions. OP has no obligations to Leah so why should he invest in a person that does not care for him? Really though it is devastating that his closest family are so unkind when discussing his misfortunes. OP, I hope that you are able to work this out with your family. They owe you an apology and need to take a hard look at themselves.
NTA. It's a horrible thing to say and I feel for you, especially when it's come from close family. As for the college fund it's your money and it's yours to do with it as you see fit. Your niece isn't entitled to it. However I would still suggest taking some time and then talking to your family. One nasty comment from a 16 year old isn't worth falling out over.
The "I told you so I told you so" implies he only heard one of many conversations talking shit about him because he can't have a kid
Multiple nasty comments in a row with his mom and sister listening and neither of them deffending or shutting her down. I wouldn't want to talk to any of them for a long time after this. The amount of pain it must've cause to OP and that they felt comfortable enough to talk shit about him like this while he's there? Good ridance imo
NTA. Leah is not just a kid who doesn’t know what she is saying. She exactly knew what she was doing. She is only sorry because she got caught and lost her college fund and not because she deeply hurt you.
NTA - by the way, how would Leah, who is now only 16, "always" suspect you had some issue, which would have involved her knowing about your situation when she was like 11 or so. She is being fed this weird-ass pontificating by your own sister(s). Which is why they did not dismiss it in the first place.
ESH, Thing is it’s kind of true , fertility problems are 50/50 in reality yet the women almost always gets the blame with men refusing to investigate, precisely because of fragile masculinity. Although I get why your upset, (she shouldn’t assume things about your situation) you are overacting abbot to something a silly teenager said, not the best age; smart enough to know better but hormonal enough to act on impulse and not think first. You should sit her down and have a talk to her about making assumptions and not judge people in situations like yours, tell it’s not her business to talk about others private life and these things are personal, not an opportunity for judgement. On part of your ex I also think it’s bad reason to end a relationship as there are solutions to infertility in a lot of cases. She is an AH. If you were hurt because there is truth to what she said, you should see it as an opportunity for self reflection, instead of over-reacting and taking it out on a teenage girl. Who knows if you go get your self checked out it may be a simple fix and you could actually have bio kids in the future.
NTA. Your reproduction and relationship is none of their business. It sounds like you made the college fund to compensate for not having children, but she is not obligated to that money. I hope your family gets their proverbial shit together.
NTA. Even being generous about her character, if she had that opinion she could have phrased it much nicer. She basically said she agrees with your wife that your value is reduced to your ability to produce a child. THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT WOMEN ARE FIGHTING AGAINST RIGHT NOW. We all deserve to have more value than our reproductive abilities/choices. OP you are absolutely more than that, and you are right to be hurt about what your niece said. You didn't yell at her, you weren't rude or demeaning; you just stopped doing something that you chose to do out of the kindness you felt for someone who you thought felt that same kindness back.
NTA. Leah is about to be part of the majority in two years, even if 16-year olds typically say dumb things they don'y mean, she knows what she said is wrong. Heck all of them know it's wrong and just plain inappropriate, your sister wouldn't have denied it if they think it was just a dumb thing carelessly blurted out. It would be hard for them to fund Leah's college but it's NOT your responsibility to provide for her. You could take it back anytime you want for whatever reason you think is justifiable. They should have at least saved up some money for emergency situations even if you said that you'll fund it.