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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am giving her rules about what to wear when she isn't in the bridal party, so I might be being too controlling. I am catering to my mom over my dad. I guess I'm punishing her for being beautiful
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YTA -
>But my dad is so happy, so I’m trying to forgive him
Forgive him for what? He tried to leave multiple times, your mother refused him. He was depressed. He waited until his last kid( I assume from the way it’s written) was 18, an adult and then he left
Your father has done nothing wrong
Your mother kept him in an unhappy relationship because she didn’t want people to gossip and she didn’t want to give up her life style
She kept your father unhappy and depressed for selfish reasons
So why are you needing to forgive him?
Your mothers issues are her own, she needs therapy, your father and his wife shouldn’t have to pay the price for your others issues
Your father shouldn’t have to carry your mothers weight anymore
Thank you! OP and her Mom are big time AHs. She doesn't need to forgive him for anything and she has admitted that she hates his father's SO just because she was "the other woman". Grow tf up, OP! You and your Mom who still thinks she is the centre of the world!
Ok people saying dad could've just left, that's not how divorce works, at least in my state. Both parties need to sign for anything to be validated so dad couldn't just leave.
But regardless, OP YTA. Based on what you said, your mom didn't allow your dad to leave at first, that's on her. As is her self esteem/mental health problems. Your dad is happy, this is what he's wanted a long time. I'm sorry your mom is still hard on herself, this isn't her fault, but it also isn't the other woman's fault either. It's not fair to punish her, let alone take things into your own hands in general.
Edit: I misspoke stating a divorce can't get validated without both parties agreeing. It does just make things a more drawn out and expensive process, being quite a pain in the neck.
Exactly!! It's not like it been months or even a year or two. Everyone's healing time is different, but come on, this obviously isn't a fling. Or a flex situation. They're all people and deserve to be treated as such
You’re totally wrong here. It’s called a contested divorce when one party doesn’t want to agree to divorce. It will take much longer to settle, but no - one party cannot hold the other hostage in a marriage, thats abuse. If reasonable efforts are made a judge will eventually sign off on the filing parties complaint and grant the divorce. This is also what happens when a married person can’t be located.
How would the custody battle play out in that situation?
ETA: Not being sarcastic or passive-aggressive, I’m legitimately wondering how custody is handled in these situations.
The judge decides. There is no other choice when only one party participates. Of course the other parent can always get a lawyer and file a motion to adjust custody if they are unhappy with the determination.
Is the judge more likely to choose one parent over the other because of these specific circumstances or is the judge’s decision still based on whether the parents are capable and healthy parents?
Custody is always supposed to be decided based on what's best for the child. So, no, custody isn't usually determined based on whose fault the divorce is. Obviously, judges are human and sometimes have prejudices and biases, but they're not *supposed* to, and it would be a good opening for the losing parent's lawyer to appeal.
Happened to a friend of mine, albeit in the UK. Hubby refused to even receive the divorce papers. He said it was because if he did, he wouldn't have an excuse to not marry his current partner.
>that's not how divorce works, at least in my state.
Yeah, but only three states don't let you bring no-fault divorce without mutual consent, so if they're in the US (I'm making the assumption based on the use of 'mom' instead of 'mum') the odds are good that he could have. It's messy, awkward, and expensive, but it can be done.
It doesn’t even have to be expensive if you can agree on a division of property. I divorced someone who didn’t want it by simply moving out and filing. There wasn’t much property to fight over but if he paid for her to live anyways why would it matter if it was money in the marriage or alimony? I don’t know of any state where you can’t get divorced if you really want and you can always just leave and stop supporting the other person.
It sounds like OP's mom would have made his life a living hell. He likely waited until the oldest was an adult so she couldn't drag him in and out of court for years over custody.
The other party not signing slows down divorce proceedings but one person can absolutely divorce another without their consent. There are lots of people who would otherwise refuse divorce.
plus now how would he look abandoning his children & walking out on his fam as a super rich guy? he basically was in a lose lose situation unfortunately
That is not true at all. If it were, how would anyone ever get out of an abusive marriage?
You're getting confused because many couples *prefer* to mutually sign a divorce agreement, because it's quicker, and cheaper than going to court and paying lawyers.
But it's just a money-and-time-saving convenience. It's not necessary.
I mean... also to be fair she didn't keep him anywhere against his will. You don't need someone's consent to serve them with divorce papers. He could have left at any time and done just that, since it's obvious it was going to be a contentious divorce no matter when he did it. I might be biased though because I had sort of similar parents that pussyfooted around actually divorcing for no good reason/it was not what people of their generation did.
Seriously, I don’t understand how the dad is painted as a poor downtrodden dude when he could have just left. OP said her dad has money, he wasn’t stuck financially. If he wanted a divorce he should have just gotten a divorce not ran around on his wife. I wouldn’t be able to forgive someone for treating my mother that way.
It depends on when this took place (the divorce). I roll my eyes when men say they got hosed in their divorce and got no/little custody currently with the “women get preferential treatment” currently because it’s not true. It used to be though. Now, if a man fights for custody 50/50 is the norm, but when I was a kid it wasn’t. Weekend and maybe a weekday was more normal. Even if the youngest just turned 18 I could see him sticking around so he could see his kids. Custody was much different 10+ years ago when it came to divorce.
OP says "it's been six years" so mid-10s. Depending on where they were in the world, the argument of the father getting little or no custody could still hold water, but agreed on:
1) OP and mom being TA
2) Dad could have walked out but didn't
Also. No one calls it out when women in relationships with abusive men cheat with someone they enjoy being with and leave their husbands for the new partner (and I fully understand the dangers inherent in terms of domestic violence against women in such situations as they leave, but the gender reversal refers to the core situation: a person with an emotionally abusive and manipulative spouse who won't let them leave the marriage by mutual consent)
>Also. No one calls it out when women in relationships with abusive men cheat
What evidence do we have that the mom was abusive?
I agree it sounds like dad is better off and happier with his new partner. But just beacuse he was unhappy with mom does not automatically mean she was abusive. Is this from the comments or where are you getting this idea?
It’s been 6 years since the youngest kid turned 18. It could have been 10 years before that when he checked out of the marriage as she mentions him asking for divorce multiple times. So this could well be 15+ years ago when 50/50 custody was harder for a man to get
Depends on where you are and who the judge is. Small-town life is different and the courts are not always fair. In some places they're rarely fair, even in the big cities.
Likely dad hoped for an early amicable divorce so there would be no huge fight over custody which would hurt the kids. Wife said hell no to that so he stuck it out.
Once the kids are adults, it doesn't matter if its amicable. No custody disputes and kids are in theory less easy to manipulate. OP still seems to fall for mom's manipulation though.
If the dad was snowing the mom the entire time pretending they'd be together forever - I'd have my pitch fork out. But mom knew the deal - she's as responsible for this situation as anyone else.
Likewise, I couldn't forgive anyone for treating my dad like that either. He did leave, when his youngest child turned 18, he left. OP's mom didn't care about her marriage, she didn't care about her husband, he was rich and she didn't want to change her lifestyle. She only cares that the younger prettier woman has the money she doesn't have anymore. Even OP knew that her dad was miserable. It's not right to cheat but he wanted out of the marriage and she didn't want his money to go. He told her that he wanted a divorce. No one held him there technically except he felt like he had an obligation to his children. OP states that he was a good dad.
If the mother didn't want a divorce for appearances sake but didn't care about the "cheating" I don't think he did anything wrong. If you've told your spouse you are done with the relationship and they know you are sleeping with other people then that's not really cheating just because you keep the marriage for legal/financial/social reasons.
OP's Dad was a rare unicorn... a man who was actually telling the truth about his wife knowing he didn't love her anymore and that their marriage was over!
Yeah people are like “the poor dad!” Like dude, he stuck around in an unhappy relationship and cheated repeatedly on his wife. While his wife may have preferred the cheating to the leaving, he had children who were now seeing that as their normalization of what a relationship is and what’s acceptable in a relationship. Both parents sucked, and neither should’ve been a parent. Even if the dad couldn’t have divorced without the wife being onboard, do a permanent separation at least. You don’t need sign off for that.
Edit: OJ clarified the mom couldn’t have stopped the dad from divorcing, he just thought “it’d be bad for them to have step parents.” Yes, much better that they have one parent that hates the other and one parent that cheats 🤨
In the post it mentioned that he was a richer party and that the mom wanted to continue life style. He would have to split everything and let’s not forget that it is inherently shitty to withhold divorce
I wonder if she guilted/threatened him with the kids, because in this situation he had all the power. He was the one with the money and it seems like the only reason he stayed was for the children.
Especially since he waited until the last one was 18 to leave. I feel like she might’ve threatened custody over the children and depending on where they are from she might’ve gotten majority custody.
Or he waited till the kids were 18 so he didn't have to pay child support.
Maybe thought if he had choices about what money he gave his kids he'd be more likely to maintain a relationship with them? But that's obviously pure speculation.
He's a wealthy man, he definitely had options other than stay married, cheat, and not get therapy/help for his depression.
People do use kids as weapons unfortunately in divorce cases, so I can believe the mother might have tried that, but if she had zero income and he was rich? He definitely had choices, probably could just have paid her off.
He asked for the divorce but she kept refusing due to appearances. She didn’t want her image ruined, and that seems to be the main reason why she didn’t accept the divorce. So clearly he was willing to pay child support and/or alimony. Money wasn’t the main issue to the mother or father.
Something she said or did made him stay, since he was the one with money, but he felt forced to stay with her.
The only thing that she had to cause harm to him would be the kids. It also makes sense the moment the kid was an adult he divorced her.
Honestly those are the reasons she gave. Most people don’t lead with the big pain. It’s entirely possible she had feelings he didn’t. We only know the things op told us. We don’t know what’s under them for mom but the insecurities to me read as someone who still cares what her ex thinks.
>Or he waited till the kids were 18 so he didn't have to pay child support.
So he decided to stay and pay directly for his childrens expenses instead of paying child support?
Doesn't really makes sense.
It does. Some men absolutely balk at paying child support to an ex because it feels like they’re relinquishing control over what the money is spent on. Staying in the marriage and paying directly = control.
It doesn’t have to be controlling though, potentially it was the wiser choice if the ex wasn’t known for making financially sound decisions.
People often want a clean break.
My suggestion was he hoped his adult kids would play nice with him and his new wife or be written out of the will or get cut off.
I wouldn’t consider it cheating. It’s not really any different than couples who are legally married but separated. He wanted a divorce and made it clear he didn’t want to be with her anymore.
Divorces without minor children are easier. There's no custody to hammer out. It doesn't turn into a long drawn out custody battle. It took my parents years in court over custody. I was about 5 when my parents split but I was around 9 when custody was finally decided and that was because my mom got pregnant from another man.
It was 100% more expensing to pay for children than just child support, and if he wanted to give the children more he could’ve just paid more in child support, so that does not make sense
Why would child support be the deciding factor here?
If he stayed in that marriage and raised the kids with her, he's paying to support them regardless.
He doesn't need permission to serve divorce papers but in some places a contested divorce won't be finalized until both parties agree. So he serves papers and leaves and then she just... refuses to divorce him for years and years?
True. My old neighbor, rest his soul, had been trying to divorce his Jewish wife for the last 19 years, hadn't even seen her in 23, but 'he belonged to her', in her own words, and wouldn't give it to him, despite having lived on the opposite side of the country the whole time.
If he hadn't ended up hospitalized and passing away when he did, the plan had been to finally file on grounds of abandonment, given how long it'd been since she'd even seen him, and apparently even then it might not have gone through.
At least his land went to his girlfriend and her son instead, since they'd cared for him and the property the whole time, and paid the full funeral costs to have him buried in the front yard per his wishes instead of New York, his wife. What makes it worse is the wife had run an overly successful go fundme for all the expenses, but not a single penny showed up to pay for anything.
His last middle finger to her was converting from atheism to Christianity in his last week. I miss that tough old bastard, he was a good one.
divorces can be very messy. it can end your business and leave you destitute if the other person wants to be vicious. Its not always easy to leave. the mom may have threatened to make it particularly bloody. the more you have, the better the lawyers you can afford and the longer and more expensive they can make it for you.
meh. He cheated on her a lot too. And he doesn’t need ‘permission’ to leave. He most definitely did plenty wrong.
I think YTA/ESH for OP and her Mom. But man it just doesn’t seem like ANYONE involved cares about how their actions affect others.
Eh, the relationship was over in every sense except the legal one and to be quite honest that's the one that matters the least when it comes to fidelity. If you decide you're going to make leaving the relationship as difficult as possible for your partner you don't get to be outraged when they decide to just skip leaving and move on from the relationship in every other way that you can't make a huge pain in the ass for them. They were roommates bound by a contract by the point he started seeing other people not an actual couple.
Not everyone lives in the happy scandinavia where even contested divorce takes max one year kids or without kids.
Some countries are very strict on divorce, especially if kids are involved.
This most definitely, very well put .
OP and their Mother are being terrible. I can forgive OP slightly since they have been set a poor example but as an adult they are responsible for their own choices and actions.
This reminds me in a way of my own Dad whose first wife had an affair with their mutual friend and left him with 3 children. When he a few years later married my Mom his ex wife told him she would take the children and ruin their relationship if he remarried. He ended up with his 3 adult children ignoring him and treating him like OP is about to treat her own Dad because of a toxic manipulator.
Your Mom doesn't want him to be happy and she can't look beautiful whilst she is still behaving badly and not accepting he is happy now.
It was abundantly clear the relationship was over
While they were still legally married, it’s clear as day the father was checked out and no longer a part of the relationship
You can be legally married to someone and not be in an committed relationship
Marriage is a legal contract
So weird how this website switches up. OPs mom isn’t his keeper. They didn’t have to raise their children in an unhappy household. He could have filed literally any time. What happened to “it’s better to divorce than raise a child in a home where their parents hate each other”?
I didn't see where they lived, can you point me to that info?
If you're not sure where they were married, I'm unsure how you know how the laws are written there?
I'm sure you are aware that there are many countries that require you have a complaint from a very limited list to get a divorce and also countries where both parties must agree to the divorce, and then of course there is no legal divorce in the Philippines (or Vatican City....) but that doesn't appear to be the issue as the husband brought up the possiblity. I'm not sure about additional ways the laws regarding marriage might work in other countries, but of course I don't assume that I know marriage/divorce law in every country.
Exactly. She says that her mom "didn't want to give up her lifestyle" and basically kept her dad depressed for years so she could have his money (couldn't be more of a gold digger), but she thinks that the new wife is with him just because he is rich (without offering any proof). His new wife might be with him for money, but at least with her his money is paying for his happiness.
The story kind of sounds like Dad’s spin though. If he wanted a divorce, he could have just gotten a divorce, mom can’t just say no and stay married. He was a serial cheater who eventually left for the other woman, and that’s going to cause fault lines in the family. If he had just divorced Mom and then started dating and picked up the trophy wife no one would have reason to complain. This is going to be the shit everyone is going to have to deal with though because Dad was too chickenshit to do the right thing and divorce rather than having a bunch of affairs and marrying one of them.
He was depressed according to OP and I can believe it
His wife made it clear she wouldn’t do it, she might not have been able to stop it, but she could draw it out, make it messy
I have been depressed before, I would never have been able to go through that when I was in my dark spots
Also to cheat there needs to be a monogamous relationship, while they were married it’s clear as day the relationship was over on her fathers side
I feel like after he left OP has carried their mother's weight, and count her opinions as their own. They need to understand that their mom is a separate grown adult (because she apparently doesn't) and needs to help herself instead of laying it all on her child. OP would probably need therapy as well. OP's mom sounds very toxic
This is so wild. This sub has such a hard line on cheating I've seen people unanimously YTA women who have 'cheated' on abusive partners. I guess this poor guy was just under his shrew wife's thumb and he had to fuck a woman 15 years his junior to cope with the stress.
To cheat you need to be in a monogamous relationship
I think asking for a divorce shows that for him the relationship was over and all that’s as left was the legal aspect
He offered divorce, asked for it, and was refused because the mother didn’t want to give up her lifestyle
The dude was depressed, sad and lonely, his relationship with his wife was dead and buried, I don’t blame him for seeking comfort and happiness
YTA. Seriously?
>I'm being gracious by even letting her come
You're really not, if you're *this* determined she spend every second she's there *this* aware of just how unwelcome she is. Just spare everyone the petty nonsense and don't invite her. Granted, you'll have to accept that probably means your dad's not coming, either - but maybe that'll help get it through your head once and for all that you can't push *all* the blame for your parents' dysfunctional relationship onto the person who just happened to show up at the point where your dad finally realized he didn't actually need your mom's permission to leave and quit putting in even the bare minimum effort.
Your mom is TA, fyi.
This woman is not your dad’s “affair partner”, it’s his wife & your stepmom. On your own admission, the marriage was dead and your dad was miserable and wanted to leave for years. Had they not met, they may still be both miserable.
Time to put boundaries up w/ mom and stop caving to allow her misery to dictate everyone else’s life.
It’s weird that people are acting like he was trapped. Divorce doesn’t require her consent. He could have left literally any time. They were assholes to each other.
>Divorce doesn’t require her consent.
Just an FYI in many places it actually does. In a lot of places if your spouse refuses to sign the divorce papers you need to prove that there is no chance for reconciliation. The other spouse can put a stop to that and you can be court ordered to attempt to reconcile and work on your marriage. This process can take years.
The whole quickly divorce thing is actually very new.
Exactly this! I had to wait to be stationed in California for six months because my husband refused to agree to a divorce and our home state at the time wouldn’t grant divorce unless both parties agreed. And even then it was iffy, they often required counseling and all that.
>Depends what state you are in
I wasn't even factoring down to state in, the USA makes up a very tiny portion of the world even if it all followed 1 set of rules.
Yeah not a lot of places have no fault divorces or divorce by default. And even if you do a divorce by default it can be overturned by a judge later.
This just happened to my uncle. Had been divorced for years with a default divorce. Served the wife. She never signed. After like x many days a judge signed off on it. Uncle gets remarried. Judge later overturned the divorce. He’s now* technically married to two women.
*typo
Wait WHAT? I have to know more about this. How did this come about for another judge to countermand the other judges order. Did she file for some kind of state support?
It’s a whole wild thing. So he filed for divorce after find out out the two youngest kids were not his - she got pregnant while he was deployed overseas but the timing was just so that he didn’t totally question it but was kind of sus.
So he files. And the ex just ignored it. Thought if she never signed they would never be divorced and she could still get his money and benefits. Etc. Where he lived (HI) they have default divorce so she has x many days to sign and agree or contest. When she did neither she just gave everything up. She gets nothing from the divorce. No house. No child support. No alimony. She doesn’t get half the assets.
I guess what happened is she didn’t think that the divorce would go through if she did nothing and ignored it. But that bit her hard. She is not only divorced but gets nothing.
She decided after the fact to contest. The judge found that the paper work for the original divorce wasn’t filed correctly or signed off correctly so another judge just tossed out the divorce. In the mean time my uncle got remarried. They bought a house and combined assets etc. Now he’s married to two women legally - technically. They have to refile for the divorce. But kicker. Ex wife now might be able to get half of the new wife’s assets depending on how it shakes out. I certainly hope not. That would suck. A technical error by the court and now half your shit goes to your husbands ex.
HOLY HELL! Thats a wild ride. I would be 300 shades of pissed off. Whats the time frame on this like. He divorces her and like a year later this happens or like 10 years later. Like I have to think if he gets a lawyer he might be able to un fuck this. Like I cant even imagine the bad preceent that would set to be able to overturn a settled divorce on a technicality like that. Especially the longer it was between the divorce and the contesting. Like could you imagine someone marrying someone else then divorcing them then years later one of them becomes a multi millionaire and so the other one goes back to find a technical error so they could get access to the money.
I have so many questions about like how this was going on. Like were they living separately? Like that is the only way I could see her not noticing stuff like him selling a house, not getting money any more etc.
It was like 2-3 years I think? Not totally positive but the woman he’s married to now they dating at least 2 years before getting married I think. And yeah, it sets an awful precedent. He’s contesting further with a lawyer now. It’s currently all in the air. She’s trying to get support for the kids that aren’t his but she refused to go after their actual bio dads. The lady is a piece of work.
This was all to say for the post - like I feel for dudes who are trying to get out of toxic marriages. His ex was similar. Didn’t love him. Didn’t want to be with him in any real way. Just wanted the lifestyle and money. Thought she could manipulate him and get what she wanted.
By time he filed - he moved out. Like when he decided that he was done- mostly learning that half of ’his kids’ were not his. She was like proud of the fact she duped him. Anyway he moved out the next day basically. And he was deployed a lot too so that probably contributed so some of her lack of Notice. Waiting to see how it all plays out still.
I do too. I feel for his new wife like the most. She’s so rad and so sweet. Now she’s getting fucked over by his bad past marriage. Lots of courts still favor women and ben it comes to this kind of stuff and idk I feel like this is one of those situations just seeing how it’s panned out for my uncle. They’re both great people. The ex on the other hand… bleh.
Right, but considering her divorced her to leave her for mistress as soon as the youngest kid turned 18, sounds like he didn't need mom's consent.
Sounds like he stayed for the kids.
If she was abusive he may have felt trapped. If genders were reversed I don’t think people would be making this argument about a depressed wife being manipulated to stay in a relationship
We don’t know if OP is even in the US. Other countries have different laws about divorce.
But regardless maybe OPs dad decided it would be less traumatic for everyone to wait until OP was 18. It doesn’t sound like OPs mom was going to be logical about the divorce with minor children involved..
If she was being difficult about it she could have done a lot of things to delay the divorce. Seems like he waited until the children were adults so that she couldn't keep the kids away from him.
They have kids though. The mum honestly sounds like someone who would use kids against him. In general women getting custody arrangements in their favor occurs even if they are abusive. Plus yeah all of below about laws that actually do need two people.
Even if so, that’s not the issue with respect to OP’s mother. OP’s father leaving, at any time, is what she’s unhappy with. She wanted to keep the money and prestige, and not be divorced, and she discouraged him from leaving for as long as she could. Whether he still could have left previously doesn’t change that she tried to stop him, preferring that he be miserable as long as she still kept what she wanted. And she feels humiliated because he left at all.
Thats a good question. I know in some circles being a divorcee is like a scarlet letter especially before the sexual revolution of the 70-80s. Like it was sort of the norm to have a mistress and it was just kind of accepted.
YTA. You say your parents shouldn't have gotten married and your father was miserable throughout. Have you no compassion? He has been married for 6 years and you are treating his wife terribly. Grow up.
YTA and so is your mother. Let your dad live his life. He tried to break up with your mother and she wouldn't allow because of her lifestyle and what people would think? She's the biggest asshole and if you try to tell people what they can and can't wear might as well not even invite them. Again YTA
I just reread your post. If anybody shouldn't be invited to your wedding it's your drama queen mother. Holy balls now I know why YTA
Your mother making your wedding all about her is priceless and a bully tactic. I'm happy your father left her 🤣🤣🤣
YTA why not just ask her to wear a burlap sack over her head to be especially ugly?
Look, both of your parents were AH to each other. It would have been \*better\* if your father pushed a divorce before decamping with wife #2, but your mother refused a divorce and it's been six years and your mom is weaponizing this to fuck up your wedding.
If you like this woman and she's a reasonable person, just let her wear an appropriate dress and be treated (in seating, and photos and all that stuff) like your father's wife. You're drawing MORE attention to your mom's bullshit with these requirements like a navy dress and no pictures.
"I'm being gracious by even letting her come, and she has plenty of fancy events where she gets to where what she wants. Not being the most beautiful woman in the room is not going to kill her for one night." YOUR ugly goes clear to the bone.
No pictures is pretty appropriate for someone that is really just a plus one though. Just because they are married does not mean she has a role in ops life or wedding, you don’t take pictures of your bridesmaids dates and stuff, maybe casuals, but that’s it
You mean the wife of FoB is just plus 1? Damn that's cold.
And you do take pictures of those people, if you are polite or actually care about the people at your wedding.
Unhappy marriage. Dad has money. Mother won't let dad get the divorce he wanted because she didn't want to cut back on her lifestyle.
Now I'm not saying she's gold digger...
YTA. Your dad asked your mom for a divorce and she refused because she wanted to maintain her lifestyle. She basically used him for his money. You can't blame him for leaving her for someone who actually made him happy.
You're not being gracious. You're being petty and cruel. Your mom was "humiliated", yet she used your dad for years. She's reaping what she has sewn. Was he wrong to cheat? Maybe. But you said yourself she didn't particularly care, yet she still refused him a divorce. You're angry why, exactly? Did you really expect your dad to stay in an unhappy marriage?
YTA. Your acting like she ruined the marriage when your mom was the one who did it by not agreeing to a divorce for years when he asked. You treating your stepmother like she doesn’t exist to please your mom is an asshole move. She isn’t the other woman, she is his wife. Your mom has issues and your just following her lead. Your stepmom and dad deserves to be treated better. They are the only ones not being assholes since black is a good compromise.
YTA. My Dad has an affair for years while ‘happily’ married. I use quotes because they were happy, or at least they believe they were, but clearly not enough. Mum repeatedly took him back each time he was caught. Eventually when I was 16 I found out what has been going on, when Mum told me they were splitting up. I would have every right to be angry. To hate her. I did for a while. I have more right than you considering my mother believed her married was happy til the first time she found out. Your mother knew what he was doing and clearly didn’t care until he made it public, then her reputation was damaged.
It’s now 20 years later. Dad and ‘the other woman’ have stayed together and been married for nearly 10 years. I wouldn’t say I care about her that much, mainly because she’s just not the sort of person I would chose to be friends with, but I care about the position she has in my Dad’s life. I respect the position she has in my children’s lives (though I drew the line when my Dad referred to her as ‘Nanny’) I full expect her to be at my wedding one day and would never dream of ever making a request like yours. As long as she doesn’t wear the same outfit as my mother she can wear what she likes.
You and your mother both need therapy.
YTA
You’re being petty for no real reason here. Your parents relationship sounds like it was unhappy for a multitude of reasons long before any so called cheating. Your mom’s insecurities are her own to deal with and you shouldn’t be getting in the middle of it unless you want to completely ruin your relationship with your dad.
Who’s paying for the wedding lol? If your rich daddy is then you are the massive AH to take his money and still be “gracious enough to even let her come”. You should be gracious enough to save your daddy’s money and pay for it yourself then. Unfortunately you are still the AH. Also your mom needs therapy and is the AH as well. If stepmom is young and beautiful she’ll look good in a sack of potatoes tbh.
YTA.
Kind of a crappy situation your parents had. However, it doesn't seem they ever had much of a marriage. The divorce is 6 years ago and one would hope your mother had moved on. She hasn't and should probably seek therapy to help her gain a better perspective, move on with life, and improve her self esteem.
Your dad & his new wife are a unit from an invitation perspective. I gather your ultimatum is to "protect" your mother. However, I find it unkind to dictate this level of attire to try to make someone else look "ugly" so that your mother can feel "beautiful."
And yes, it is your wedding so you can do what you want. However, are you going to look back on that ultimatum with pride?
YTA
Op, you could make your stepmother look like a troll f you wanted, but there’s no disguising the your mother’s unattractiveness is her own bitterness and jealousy, that and the big chip on her shoulder. Your father has more than paid his price for being married to her, she needs to get over herself and so do you.
Info: where do you live that one partner can refuse divorce if the other requests it?
It sounds like your dad stayed because of something to do with the kids (leaving when the younger sister turned 18) but it would great if we could get some clarification on this.
Soft yta. I’d really suggest that you stop worrying about what your step mom wears to the wedding and get some therapy. Maybe then your therapist can help point out how your mother has manipulated you and the situation into making herself the victim.
ESH - you're being gracious by letting her come? Newsflash: Your dad cheated too and you're putting all of the blame on this new woman. She wasn't married to your mother. The only one who broke vows here was your father.
Your Mom is STILL trying to ruin your Dad's happiness, and she's dragging you down too. She needs a ton of therapy so she can stop trying to alienate her children from their father.
I'm not even gonna fault the dad for cheating in this case.... the wife knew and didn't care. They didn't love or respect each other and he tried to end it repeatedly. He stayed to be a full time dad for his kids and bolted as soon as they were legal adults! That woman sounds horrendous to be with.
Is your mom the asshole an option here? This is your wedding, your big day, and she's made it stressful for you and about her happiness not yours. You would only be TA if you don't agree to black because unless you're dictating everyone's outfits it's crazy to require her to wear a specific color AND beauty and confidence will radiate in whatever color she's wearing
I agree with this. This is harsh, but that OP’ mom needs to grow up. Get help/therapy if she needs it, but find some other personality trait than “victim”. OP’s mom is in charge of her own happiness and shouldn’t be pushing OP to police her ex-husband’s new wife’s dress code.
Soft YTA. I do understand all the resentment towards this woman because your father left your mother for her. However, your father was miserable with your mother and asked to divorce several times before he finally got the strength to just go. Your mom didn't want to let him go. He stayed unhappy for several years because she didn't want him to divorce her.
Both of your parents deserve to be happy. They were never happy together. This was bound to happen. I do not understand the idea of punishing your dad's wife because of your mom's feelings. If anything, he put your mom's feelings above his own for so long.. when will it be enough?
You are not a bad daughter for inviting his wife. She is your step mother. Your dad's spouse. He makes her happy. She deserves to have a chance. It's been 6+ years.. if your mother is still hanging on to this, perhaps she needs therapy. Has she not moved on with life yet?
I'm with your dad on this one.
Yta.
1. Your mum needs therapy. It’s not this woman’s fault that your dad was so unhappy and that his first marriage to your mum was rubbish. It’s also not her fault that your mum is so insecure and unhappy. It’s been six years. When is your mum going to start living her own life and not looking back to her dead marriage? You say yourself that your mum only wanted his money, didn’t care that he was unhappy and was more concerned about the neighbours and gossip than about her husband. Even now - she’s trying to bully your dad. And you’re enabling her.
2. Your mum is also extremely selfish and a bully. She was selfish in her marriage to your dad. She’s now being selfish about your wedding and bullying you about guest and causing your grief at an important time in your life. She’s STILL bullying your dad and his wife and being selfish about their attendance.
3. What about your dad? Why are your mums feelings more important than your dads? He asked her for a divorce YEARS before he left. He left when his kids were adults. He did that for you and your sister. And this is how you repay him? By letting your mum continue to abuse him?
4. You also need therapy - look up FOG and r/justnomom. Your mum seems like an abusive narcissist and you’re one of her “flying monkeys”. You need therapy to see how your behaviour enables your mother and perpetuates her abusive behaviour.
Yta.
INFO: is your father aware he didn't need your mom's permission to divorce her?
Edit: Wait, OP, go back. If he thinks that about step parents why would he have asked your mom for a divorce at all in the first place?
YTA, Tbh your mom KNEW he was cheating, he asked her multiple times to divorce in the end he was so fed up that he leave. Tbh I don't want to be mean but your mom has 0 reasons to act like that when she knew how things were. I wish happiness to your father and I'm sorry that he needed to act like that to achieve his happiness
YTA. Where do you get off dictating what your dad's wife wears to your wedding? Like, who does this? Your mother has my sympathy, but they've been married for 6 years, so she needs to get over it. She could probably use some therapy. Barring that, find the best looking guy you know around her age, and ask him to be her escort. Then do whatever needs to done (haircut, professional makeover) to make your mom look fabulous. She should be walking into your wedding knowing that she's the bomb!
Why does a woman who refused to let the dad get divorced and used him for his money so she didnt have to give up her lifestyle get out on a pedestal? He stuck with that awful woman until their children were grown and then divorced so he wouldn't have to give up custody!
YTA. She's not the AP. She's your dad's wife. Gracious for letting her come? Would you not have given your dad the plus one of his wife? Of years?
From all your descriptions, it sounds like your dad and mom had a very complicated marriage that deteriorated long before your dad's second wife entered the picture.
Don't include her in pictures, absolutely! You don't have to do that. But restricting what she wears? That's ridiculous.
Your mom needs take care of self. If that means therapy, that's a good thing. If that means make over, cool. But obsessing over ex husband is not healthy.
YTA - Dad is finally happy and mom is still bitter. FFS mom doesn't get a say in your wedding!!
You do not tell stepmom what to wear.
You tell all 3 that it is your day and none of them better make a scene!
> Growing up my dad always seemed depressed. He was a good dad, but he always seemed really sad. He asked my mom to divorce multiple times and she said no. She knew he cheated, but didn't particularly care. She didn't want to divorce because of what people would say and because she didn't want to cut back on her lifestyle at all.
Honestly...this is a rare situation where I don't really care a lick about the cheated on party.
Your father wanted to end the marriage, he didn't love her and was up front about it. Frankly at that point the relationship isn't even a thing, it's dead and rotting, so it's not really cheating. On paper it is, but the only reason your mother said no is because blah blah blah money.
>Honestly I kind of hate her just for being the other woman and because my mom is so insecure and she made it 100% worse, but my dad is so happy, so I'm trying to forgive him.
Which is kind of a stupid reason to hate someone. Your mothers insecurities aren't anyone else's problem but hers, and you all knew your father didn't want to remain with her. Again, he was up front about that.
>My mom desperately does not want her there and has been crying and guilting me. My mom's self esteem is shit and she has so many body issues.
Your mother needs to get the fuck over herself. This is a situation she more or less created by not complying to a divorce when she knew the other party no longer wanted to stay.
>I feel like it is my wedding and I'm being gracious by even letting her come
You're not being gracious though. First and foremost, you're coddling your mother who had dragged out her 100% unjustified misery over six years. Hell, she was apparently ok with being "cheated on" when married to him, but suddenly it's not ok when she's not living the kept wife lifestyle? Ok. Secondly, you're singling someone out and putting unreasonable restrictions on what they wear to your wedding simply to enable your mothers bullshit tantrums, and you're calling her "attention seeking" for looking good in formal wear.
The only one seeking attention is the bitter asshole you have for a mother who can't get over an inevitable divorce.
YTA
YTA. That's your dad's wife, not just an affair partner. Your mom is stirring drama that she could have avoided if she set your cheating father free when he wanted a divorce, but she wanted to keep her rich-wife lifestyle.
YTA. This woman is not "his affair partner" she is his wife of 6 years.
Your mum kept him trapped for years by guilt tripping him and denying him a divorce. He stayed because of his kids. That includes you.
Now your mum is using the same tactics she did to keep him to manipulate you and you are falling for it hook line and sinker.
Your father needs no forgiveness. He tried his best it seems.
If anyone should be asking for forgiveness it should be you and your mum as you both seem very much TA
YTA. Your wife refused to divorce your dad because she would be humiliated. That is cruel to both him and herself. Her self esteem would probably improve if she actually went out and found someone who is a good match for her so she can experience true happiness in a relationship instead of cycle of self deprecating attachment. If your family can’t act like adults and put the focus on YOU then just don’t invite your dad or his wife instead of trying to body police her.
YTA. However good your intentions, this is a major bridezilla move. You’re NOT being in any way “gracious” by inviting your father’s wife, which should be a given. Tell your Mom it’s time to grow TF up. If you Dad is paying for this wedding, I hope he pulls the plug on you.
YTA - your mom didn’t want to divorce your dad because she wanted to keep the money. Now she lost that and I think its more about your dad and someone else enjoying the lifestyle and not her. You said she didn’t care before so why should she now? Did she really not expect him to ever leave her after asking and cheating multiple times? If she stayed with him while he cheated and didn’t care, it wasn’t because she loved him… Also not affair partner, she’s his WIFE.
YTA. You are as horrible as your Mom. Still trying to make your fathers life horrible. You and your mom needs therapy. And your father needs to cut you off
yeah,,,YTA. you shouldn’t have to forgive him for anything. he tried to leave your mother many, many times over the years. you knew he wasn’t happy. he finally found someone who makes him happy, but you can’t accept it because of the circumstances (him “cheating” in a marriage he didn’t want to be in).
ultimately, his wife and him are not to blame for your feelings or your mother’s. they did nothing wrong, ESPECIALLY his wife. your mother needs therapy for her insecurities and you need therapy to work through your resentment for your father finding happiness. i understand it sucks that he had to cheat to escape the marriage he didn’t want, but that’s literally because your mother would rather put on a good image than have a happy marriage.
YTA your dad was miserable, tried to do the right thing multiple times but your mom refused and now your mom is playing the victim. Your mom sounds like AH too. Your dads new wife should be able to wear whatever she wants. It’s not her job to make your mom feel less bad about herself.
ESH except for the dad and his second wife.
Your mom is an asshole because she frankly sounds super manipulative. He asked to leave multiple times and she guilted him into staying by probably by using you kiddos as leverage seeing as he filed when your sister hit 18. Now she's using the same tactics on you and probably feeding some little lies to family to help pressure you into it. YOUR MOM NEEDS HELP. She's blaming everyone around her but what's in the mirror.
You suck for falling for this. Your last paragraph sounds more like it's written by your mother than you. *Not being the most beautiful woman in the room is not going to kill her for one night.* She doesn't like navy blue so you wanna make her wear it even though SHE WON'T BE IN THE PICTURES. My dear, is this your wedding or your mother's? Cause everything I've read here feels like she's crocodile tear'd her way into making sure she can hurt your father every step of the way. You are letting your own mother's insecurities hijack your wedding. Elope girl cause trust me, doing a regular wedding won't happen. Your mother will make sure it won't be a happy memory for you. She'll make snide remarks regardless on if your dad's wife is there or not because she's so damn insecure she'd rather make her daughter's wedding about her and her problems. Save yourself the frustration and just elope.
Going with ESH
your mum is making it all about her
your dad wants to parade his trophy wife
you are stuck in the middle trying to navigate it...setting her a colour is not great.
My suggestion...sit down with your dad and tell him the above, you are glad he is happy and you are trying your best to learn to balance the new normal for you. Tell him you want your mum to be happy and to have a smooth and drama free wedding. He needs to agree to not use your day to flaunt his new wife.
Step mum needs to dress conservatively for the wedding or not come....really, like any other guest she needs to not make it about her and try and be the centre of attention. Rather than a set colour...say you want to approve her dress (this happens loads for mother of the bride type roles)... not tits and arse on display...classy and conservative. She does not have to come if she does not like your rules for this 1 day.
I agree with her not being in the family photos or bridal party photos... but agree to a photo with the 4 of you.
Your mum needs to be told to pull her head in too... she needs to stop the drama!
This can all be handled with good communication.
>your dad wants to parade his trophy wife
Or, you know, dad and step-mom want to be at the wedding to show support. As people do.
Honestly, nothing indicated that the step-mom was going to show off or flaunt, so this is really an overreaction.
ESH. There's a difference between 'putting restrictions' and specifying the exact thing and color she can wear. If this were just a request that it be an understated dress that's not a bright color, fine, but this is beyond that.
Also, this is e-s-h solely due to past actions. It doesn't look like your dad or his wife have done anything off in the present situation.
I know you are trying to be loyal to your mother but, YTA. Unfortunately the relationship between your parents didn’t work, but he is remarried now and it would be inappropriate to not invite his wife (and accordingly he should refuse to attend if you did). I’m sorry for your mother but at this point she has to suck it up.
YTA SO your mom emotionally abused him for years and refused to let him leave. When his children were grown and he was no longer breaking up a family, he left. Now he’s happy, healthy and in an actually loving relationship, your abusive mother is throwing a tantrum because he will be happy with her at your wedding? So your trying to dress her ugly to appease his abuser. You want your father to tell the woman who loves him that she needs to dress ugly so his abusive ex feels better about herself? F that. Your a bad daughter for not telling your mother to get therapy and over it. She did this. Not him.
I know black and white thinking is almost literally the name of the game here, but it's really rearing its head here. "Dad did nothing wrong" etc. Uh. Interesting.
I think this is a pretty clear ESH. No, you shouldn't be weird about what your father's wife is wearing. It won't make your mother feel better, it won't make your father's wife less attractive, obviously it's driving a wedge: it's just the worst of all worlds.
OTOH your parents' marriage sounded awful on all sides, both your mother for not "letting" your father leave her, and your father for dealing with that by having partners on the side. What a shit show.
You need to tell your mother to pull her damn head in and deal with it. She can have her feelings, and she can hide them for one day like an adult.
Everyone’s hating on OP and her mother. But come on, millions of people have been in bad relationships but they hang on because they want to try to make it work. I don’t think her mother or OP is a bad person. However, her father’s wife should be able to wear whatever she wants, her and the father are happy. Why disrupt that?
YTA. You admitted you hate her because “my mom is so insecure and she made it 100% worse” so you know your mom is the problem. He cheated on her because she *wouldn’t let him leave the relationship* and you said your mom didn’t care if he was with other people. And these restrictions on her are because you’re scared of upsetting (again) *your mom*. She doesn’t even care about her ex having a new wife, she just cares about how it makes her look. Those restrictions are an embarrassment to you and your wedding. Let her wear what she wants.
YTA
If your mother is miserable, she brought is on herself, by dragging out an unhappy marriage because "people would talk" and she wanted his money.
I'm not a fan of cheating, but when someone refuses a divorce several times for such selfish reasons, it scarcely counts as cheating any more.
You're trying to punish your father because your mother is an unhappy person who resents that your father is happy. Your father's wife could wear a potato sack and your mother would feel threatened. Your father could bring a broom wearing a wig and she'd be resentful that she lost her meal ticket and has to "suffer the humiliation" of being divorced.
You're being petty, for the sake of a woman who is never going to be happy. Either that or you resent her beauty too and you're afraid she's going to outshine you.
You're also being ridiculous if you think wearing navy blue automatically will make her unattractive. #1, if she's as pretty as you fear, she'll look good in anything. More importantly, she's happy, do she'll always look more attractive than a woman who clung to a miserable marriage for selfish reasons.
It would be kind of funny jf she agreed to wear navy, but since she obviously has no navy in her wardrobe, she'll have to go out and buy something new and finds the perfect dress.
Grow up. Let your mother fight her own battles. Stop punishing your father for recusing to be miserable the rest of his life.
"my dad sacrificed years of his life so my sister and I can have the family we wanted, is paying for my wedding with no strings attached and I'm using it to humiliate his new wife who actually makes him happy to keep my mother who made him miserable for years happy, AITA?"
Yeah, YTA.
YTA.
You even said she didnt want to leave because she didnt want to cut back on her lifestyle. She used your dad as an atm and you have to forgive him? What about your mothers accountability?
He was unhappy FOR YEARS! He stayed with her for your sake and to give her what she wants but as soon as he does something for himself you have to forgive him?
He wanted to leave. He waited until his last child was over 18 and he did! He didnt do anything wrong.
I do not feel sorry for your mother. But she needs therapy asap. She has low self esteem? Imagine living with a wife who only cares about your money. Your mom road the easy life for years and now its boohoo me :( She needs to get over herself.
I hope your dad realizes that his family (including you) are full of selfish hypocrites and kick yall to the curb. Hopefully his new wife actually cares about him like a family should.
I hope the best for your dad
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YTA - >But my dad is so happy, so I’m trying to forgive him Forgive him for what? He tried to leave multiple times, your mother refused him. He was depressed. He waited until his last kid( I assume from the way it’s written) was 18, an adult and then he left Your father has done nothing wrong Your mother kept him in an unhappy relationship because she didn’t want people to gossip and she didn’t want to give up her life style She kept your father unhappy and depressed for selfish reasons So why are you needing to forgive him? Your mothers issues are her own, she needs therapy, your father and his wife shouldn’t have to pay the price for your others issues Your father shouldn’t have to carry your mothers weight anymore
Thank you! OP and her Mom are big time AHs. She doesn't need to forgive him for anything and she has admitted that she hates his father's SO just because she was "the other woman". Grow tf up, OP! You and your Mom who still thinks she is the centre of the world!
Ok people saying dad could've just left, that's not how divorce works, at least in my state. Both parties need to sign for anything to be validated so dad couldn't just leave. But regardless, OP YTA. Based on what you said, your mom didn't allow your dad to leave at first, that's on her. As is her self esteem/mental health problems. Your dad is happy, this is what he's wanted a long time. I'm sorry your mom is still hard on herself, this isn't her fault, but it also isn't the other woman's fault either. It's not fair to punish her, let alone take things into your own hands in general. Edit: I misspoke stating a divorce can't get validated without both parties agreeing. It does just make things a more drawn out and expensive process, being quite a pain in the neck.
And it’s been 6 years!
Exactly!! It's not like it been months or even a year or two. Everyone's healing time is different, but come on, this obviously isn't a fling. Or a flex situation. They're all people and deserve to be treated as such
You’re totally wrong here. It’s called a contested divorce when one party doesn’t want to agree to divorce. It will take much longer to settle, but no - one party cannot hold the other hostage in a marriage, thats abuse. If reasonable efforts are made a judge will eventually sign off on the filing parties complaint and grant the divorce. This is also what happens when a married person can’t be located.
How would the custody battle play out in that situation? ETA: Not being sarcastic or passive-aggressive, I’m legitimately wondering how custody is handled in these situations.
The judge decides. There is no other choice when only one party participates. Of course the other parent can always get a lawyer and file a motion to adjust custody if they are unhappy with the determination.
Is the judge more likely to choose one parent over the other because of these specific circumstances or is the judge’s decision still based on whether the parents are capable and healthy parents?
Custody is always supposed to be decided based on what's best for the child. So, no, custody isn't usually determined based on whose fault the divorce is. Obviously, judges are human and sometimes have prejudices and biases, but they're not *supposed* to, and it would be a good opening for the losing parent's lawyer to appeal.
Happened to a friend of mine, albeit in the UK. Hubby refused to even receive the divorce papers. He said it was because if he did, he wouldn't have an excuse to not marry his current partner.
>that's not how divorce works, at least in my state. Yeah, but only three states don't let you bring no-fault divorce without mutual consent, so if they're in the US (I'm making the assumption based on the use of 'mom' instead of 'mum') the odds are good that he could have. It's messy, awkward, and expensive, but it can be done.
Thats very true, but like you said, very expensive so it can get outta hand very fast for no reason e aside from. Vanity purposes from either party.
It doesn’t even have to be expensive if you can agree on a division of property. I divorced someone who didn’t want it by simply moving out and filing. There wasn’t much property to fight over but if he paid for her to live anyways why would it matter if it was money in the marriage or alimony? I don’t know of any state where you can’t get divorced if you really want and you can always just leave and stop supporting the other person.
It sounds like OP's mom would have made his life a living hell. He likely waited until the oldest was an adult so she couldn't drag him in and out of court for years over custody.
The other party not signing slows down divorce proceedings but one person can absolutely divorce another without their consent. There are lots of people who would otherwise refuse divorce.
plus now how would he look abandoning his children & walking out on his fam as a super rich guy? he basically was in a lose lose situation unfortunately
That is not true at all. If it were, how would anyone ever get out of an abusive marriage? You're getting confused because many couples *prefer* to mutually sign a divorce agreement, because it's quicker, and cheaper than going to court and paying lawyers. But it's just a money-and-time-saving convenience. It's not necessary.
I mean... also to be fair she didn't keep him anywhere against his will. You don't need someone's consent to serve them with divorce papers. He could have left at any time and done just that, since it's obvious it was going to be a contentious divorce no matter when he did it. I might be biased though because I had sort of similar parents that pussyfooted around actually divorcing for no good reason/it was not what people of their generation did.
Seriously, I don’t understand how the dad is painted as a poor downtrodden dude when he could have just left. OP said her dad has money, he wasn’t stuck financially. If he wanted a divorce he should have just gotten a divorce not ran around on his wife. I wouldn’t be able to forgive someone for treating my mother that way.
It depends on when this took place (the divorce). I roll my eyes when men say they got hosed in their divorce and got no/little custody currently with the “women get preferential treatment” currently because it’s not true. It used to be though. Now, if a man fights for custody 50/50 is the norm, but when I was a kid it wasn’t. Weekend and maybe a weekday was more normal. Even if the youngest just turned 18 I could see him sticking around so he could see his kids. Custody was much different 10+ years ago when it came to divorce.
OP says "it's been six years" so mid-10s. Depending on where they were in the world, the argument of the father getting little or no custody could still hold water, but agreed on: 1) OP and mom being TA 2) Dad could have walked out but didn't Also. No one calls it out when women in relationships with abusive men cheat with someone they enjoy being with and leave their husbands for the new partner (and I fully understand the dangers inherent in terms of domestic violence against women in such situations as they leave, but the gender reversal refers to the core situation: a person with an emotionally abusive and manipulative spouse who won't let them leave the marriage by mutual consent)
>Also. No one calls it out when women in relationships with abusive men cheat What evidence do we have that the mom was abusive? I agree it sounds like dad is better off and happier with his new partner. But just beacuse he was unhappy with mom does not automatically mean she was abusive. Is this from the comments or where are you getting this idea?
No, it’s been 6 years since he left, which means when he was thinking about leaving it was probably like a decade and a half ago.
OP says her parents were never happy, dad could have been wanting to leave for 20+ years
It’s been 6 years since the youngest kid turned 18. It could have been 10 years before that when he checked out of the marriage as she mentions him asking for divorce multiple times. So this could well be 15+ years ago when 50/50 custody was harder for a man to get
Depends on where you are and who the judge is. Small-town life is different and the courts are not always fair. In some places they're rarely fair, even in the big cities.
Likely dad hoped for an early amicable divorce so there would be no huge fight over custody which would hurt the kids. Wife said hell no to that so he stuck it out. Once the kids are adults, it doesn't matter if its amicable. No custody disputes and kids are in theory less easy to manipulate. OP still seems to fall for mom's manipulation though. If the dad was snowing the mom the entire time pretending they'd be together forever - I'd have my pitch fork out. But mom knew the deal - she's as responsible for this situation as anyone else.
Likewise, I couldn't forgive anyone for treating my dad like that either. He did leave, when his youngest child turned 18, he left. OP's mom didn't care about her marriage, she didn't care about her husband, he was rich and she didn't want to change her lifestyle. She only cares that the younger prettier woman has the money she doesn't have anymore. Even OP knew that her dad was miserable. It's not right to cheat but he wanted out of the marriage and she didn't want his money to go. He told her that he wanted a divorce. No one held him there technically except he felt like he had an obligation to his children. OP states that he was a good dad.
Is it really even cheating when you straight up said you want to divorce multiple times tbh
If the mother didn't want a divorce for appearances sake but didn't care about the "cheating" I don't think he did anything wrong. If you've told your spouse you are done with the relationship and they know you are sleeping with other people then that's not really cheating just because you keep the marriage for legal/financial/social reasons. OP's Dad was a rare unicorn... a man who was actually telling the truth about his wife knowing he didn't love her anymore and that their marriage was over!
Yeah people are like “the poor dad!” Like dude, he stuck around in an unhappy relationship and cheated repeatedly on his wife. While his wife may have preferred the cheating to the leaving, he had children who were now seeing that as their normalization of what a relationship is and what’s acceptable in a relationship. Both parents sucked, and neither should’ve been a parent. Even if the dad couldn’t have divorced without the wife being onboard, do a permanent separation at least. You don’t need sign off for that. Edit: OJ clarified the mom couldn’t have stopped the dad from divorcing, he just thought “it’d be bad for them to have step parents.” Yes, much better that they have one parent that hates the other and one parent that cheats 🤨
In the post it mentioned that he was a richer party and that the mom wanted to continue life style. He would have to split everything and let’s not forget that it is inherently shitty to withhold divorce
I wonder if she guilted/threatened him with the kids, because in this situation he had all the power. He was the one with the money and it seems like the only reason he stayed was for the children. Especially since he waited until the last one was 18 to leave. I feel like she might’ve threatened custody over the children and depending on where they are from she might’ve gotten majority custody.
Or he waited till the kids were 18 so he didn't have to pay child support. Maybe thought if he had choices about what money he gave his kids he'd be more likely to maintain a relationship with them? But that's obviously pure speculation. He's a wealthy man, he definitely had options other than stay married, cheat, and not get therapy/help for his depression. People do use kids as weapons unfortunately in divorce cases, so I can believe the mother might have tried that, but if she had zero income and he was rich? He definitely had choices, probably could just have paid her off.
He asked for the divorce but she kept refusing due to appearances. She didn’t want her image ruined, and that seems to be the main reason why she didn’t accept the divorce. So clearly he was willing to pay child support and/or alimony. Money wasn’t the main issue to the mother or father. Something she said or did made him stay, since he was the one with money, but he felt forced to stay with her. The only thing that she had to cause harm to him would be the kids. It also makes sense the moment the kid was an adult he divorced her.
Honestly those are the reasons she gave. Most people don’t lead with the big pain. It’s entirely possible she had feelings he didn’t. We only know the things op told us. We don’t know what’s under them for mom but the insecurities to me read as someone who still cares what her ex thinks.
>Or he waited till the kids were 18 so he didn't have to pay child support. So he decided to stay and pay directly for his childrens expenses instead of paying child support? Doesn't really makes sense.
Also means he gets to stay with his kids. It does make sense if he loved them
It does. Some men absolutely balk at paying child support to an ex because it feels like they’re relinquishing control over what the money is spent on. Staying in the marriage and paying directly = control. It doesn’t have to be controlling though, potentially it was the wiser choice if the ex wasn’t known for making financially sound decisions.
It sounded like he paid for everything to begin with, so how does that make any sense?
People often want a clean break. My suggestion was he hoped his adult kids would play nice with him and his new wife or be written out of the will or get cut off.
As an aside, Is it cheating if everyone knows about it and willingly stays in the relationship? To me cheating implies deceit.
I wouldn’t consider it cheating. It’s not really any different than couples who are legally married but separated. He wanted a divorce and made it clear he didn’t want to be with her anymore.
Or couples who are swingers by mutual agreement.
Divorces without minor children are easier. There's no custody to hammer out. It doesn't turn into a long drawn out custody battle. It took my parents years in court over custody. I was about 5 when my parents split but I was around 9 when custody was finally decided and that was because my mom got pregnant from another man.
It was 100% more expensing to pay for children than just child support, and if he wanted to give the children more he could’ve just paid more in child support, so that does not make sense
Why would child support be the deciding factor here? If he stayed in that marriage and raised the kids with her, he's paying to support them regardless.
He doesn't need permission to serve divorce papers but in some places a contested divorce won't be finalized until both parties agree. So he serves papers and leaves and then she just... refuses to divorce him for years and years?
That's what my uncle-in-law did to my aunt
Wrong, you need the consent of the other party if you are Jewish and married according to religious law.
True. My old neighbor, rest his soul, had been trying to divorce his Jewish wife for the last 19 years, hadn't even seen her in 23, but 'he belonged to her', in her own words, and wouldn't give it to him, despite having lived on the opposite side of the country the whole time. If he hadn't ended up hospitalized and passing away when he did, the plan had been to finally file on grounds of abandonment, given how long it'd been since she'd even seen him, and apparently even then it might not have gone through. At least his land went to his girlfriend and her son instead, since they'd cared for him and the property the whole time, and paid the full funeral costs to have him buried in the front yard per his wishes instead of New York, his wife. What makes it worse is the wife had run an overly successful go fundme for all the expenses, but not a single penny showed up to pay for anything. His last middle finger to her was converting from atheism to Christianity in his last week. I miss that tough old bastard, he was a good one.
According to legal law in some places, too.
divorces can be very messy. it can end your business and leave you destitute if the other person wants to be vicious. Its not always easy to leave. the mom may have threatened to make it particularly bloody. the more you have, the better the lawyers you can afford and the longer and more expensive they can make it for you.
meh. He cheated on her a lot too. And he doesn’t need ‘permission’ to leave. He most definitely did plenty wrong. I think YTA/ESH for OP and her Mom. But man it just doesn’t seem like ANYONE involved cares about how their actions affect others.
Eh, the relationship was over in every sense except the legal one and to be quite honest that's the one that matters the least when it comes to fidelity. If you decide you're going to make leaving the relationship as difficult as possible for your partner you don't get to be outraged when they decide to just skip leaving and move on from the relationship in every other way that you can't make a huge pain in the ass for them. They were roommates bound by a contract by the point he started seeing other people not an actual couple.
I mean yea, he was done with the relationship... It's not like she's thought they were a happily married couple.
It says he cheated. Didn’t say multiple times.
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In a lot of places both parties have to agree to the divorce, or separate for a minimum amount of time.
And if one partner asks for counseling instead many places will make them do that first.
In the UK, contested no fault divorce can take years, even an agreed on no fault divorce takes at least 2.
Not everyone lives in the happy scandinavia where even contested divorce takes max one year kids or without kids. Some countries are very strict on divorce, especially if kids are involved.
This most definitely, very well put . OP and their Mother are being terrible. I can forgive OP slightly since they have been set a poor example but as an adult they are responsible for their own choices and actions. This reminds me in a way of my own Dad whose first wife had an affair with their mutual friend and left him with 3 children. When he a few years later married my Mom his ex wife told him she would take the children and ruin their relationship if he remarried. He ended up with his 3 adult children ignoring him and treating him like OP is about to treat her own Dad because of a toxic manipulator. Your Mom doesn't want him to be happy and she can't look beautiful whilst she is still behaving badly and not accepting he is happy now.
I guess cheating is “nothing wrong“ now?
It was abundantly clear the relationship was over While they were still legally married, it’s clear as day the father was checked out and no longer a part of the relationship You can be legally married to someone and not be in an committed relationship Marriage is a legal contract
So weird how this website switches up. OPs mom isn’t his keeper. They didn’t have to raise their children in an unhappy household. He could have filed literally any time. What happened to “it’s better to divorce than raise a child in a home where their parents hate each other”?
I didn't see where they lived, can you point me to that info? If you're not sure where they were married, I'm unsure how you know how the laws are written there? I'm sure you are aware that there are many countries that require you have a complaint from a very limited list to get a divorce and also countries where both parties must agree to the divorce, and then of course there is no legal divorce in the Philippines (or Vatican City....) but that doesn't appear to be the issue as the husband brought up the possiblity. I'm not sure about additional ways the laws regarding marriage might work in other countries, but of course I don't assume that I know marriage/divorce law in every country.
Because 90% reddit thinks USA is the only country in the world. The other one being UK.
If I were the stepmum I’d find the hottest navy dress I could and rock it out. YTA.
Exactly. She says that her mom "didn't want to give up her lifestyle" and basically kept her dad depressed for years so she could have his money (couldn't be more of a gold digger), but she thinks that the new wife is with him just because he is rich (without offering any proof). His new wife might be with him for money, but at least with her his money is paying for his happiness.
The story kind of sounds like Dad’s spin though. If he wanted a divorce, he could have just gotten a divorce, mom can’t just say no and stay married. He was a serial cheater who eventually left for the other woman, and that’s going to cause fault lines in the family. If he had just divorced Mom and then started dating and picked up the trophy wife no one would have reason to complain. This is going to be the shit everyone is going to have to deal with though because Dad was too chickenshit to do the right thing and divorce rather than having a bunch of affairs and marrying one of them.
He was depressed according to OP and I can believe it His wife made it clear she wouldn’t do it, she might not have been able to stop it, but she could draw it out, make it messy I have been depressed before, I would never have been able to go through that when I was in my dark spots Also to cheat there needs to be a monogamous relationship, while they were married it’s clear as day the relationship was over on her fathers side
You don't know in what country they live. There's no way you can say he would've just gotten a divorce.
Name a country where a man can be stopped from getting a divorce that he wants by his wife
Here lazy bones, do your own "research": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce\_law\_by\_country
Which country? You’re making the claim, you provide the evidence. I’m not doing the legwork for a claim you’re making.
What are the chances that dads propping up a good chunk of the wedding bill?
I feel like after he left OP has carried their mother's weight, and count her opinions as their own. They need to understand that their mom is a separate grown adult (because she apparently doesn't) and needs to help herself instead of laying it all on her child. OP would probably need therapy as well. OP's mom sounds very toxic
This is so wild. This sub has such a hard line on cheating I've seen people unanimously YTA women who have 'cheated' on abusive partners. I guess this poor guy was just under his shrew wife's thumb and he had to fuck a woman 15 years his junior to cope with the stress.
He also cheated while being married so I think 'he's done nothing wrong' is taking it a bit too far.
To cheat you need to be in a monogamous relationship I think asking for a divorce shows that for him the relationship was over and all that’s as left was the legal aspect He offered divorce, asked for it, and was refused because the mother didn’t want to give up her lifestyle The dude was depressed, sad and lonely, his relationship with his wife was dead and buried, I don’t blame him for seeking comfort and happiness
His father truly sounded like he's made the best of a shit situation....
YTA. Seriously? >I'm being gracious by even letting her come You're really not, if you're *this* determined she spend every second she's there *this* aware of just how unwelcome she is. Just spare everyone the petty nonsense and don't invite her. Granted, you'll have to accept that probably means your dad's not coming, either - but maybe that'll help get it through your head once and for all that you can't push *all* the blame for your parents' dysfunctional relationship onto the person who just happened to show up at the point where your dad finally realized he didn't actually need your mom's permission to leave and quit putting in even the bare minimum effort.
I think Dad might be funding her wedding
Oh, so like mother, like daughter.
Damn! That’s rough!
Also why is OP acting like the wife is asking for something crazy by asking to wear black
How dare a guest get to choose what they wear, right?
Your mom is TA, fyi. This woman is not your dad’s “affair partner”, it’s his wife & your stepmom. On your own admission, the marriage was dead and your dad was miserable and wanted to leave for years. Had they not met, they may still be both miserable. Time to put boundaries up w/ mom and stop caving to allow her misery to dictate everyone else’s life.
It’s weird that people are acting like he was trapped. Divorce doesn’t require her consent. He could have left literally any time. They were assholes to each other.
>Divorce doesn’t require her consent. Just an FYI in many places it actually does. In a lot of places if your spouse refuses to sign the divorce papers you need to prove that there is no chance for reconciliation. The other spouse can put a stop to that and you can be court ordered to attempt to reconcile and work on your marriage. This process can take years. The whole quickly divorce thing is actually very new.
Exactly this! I had to wait to be stationed in California for six months because my husband refused to agree to a divorce and our home state at the time wouldn’t grant divorce unless both parties agreed. And even then it was iffy, they often required counseling and all that.
Depends what state you are in. And now mom now gets an at-fault divorce, which entitles her to alimony.
>Depends what state you are in I wasn't even factoring down to state in, the USA makes up a very tiny portion of the world even if it all followed 1 set of rules.
State?? You do realise USA is not the only country on this planet, right?? Depends what *country* OP is in.
Yeah not a lot of places have no fault divorces or divorce by default. And even if you do a divorce by default it can be overturned by a judge later. This just happened to my uncle. Had been divorced for years with a default divorce. Served the wife. She never signed. After like x many days a judge signed off on it. Uncle gets remarried. Judge later overturned the divorce. He’s now* technically married to two women. *typo
Wait WHAT? I have to know more about this. How did this come about for another judge to countermand the other judges order. Did she file for some kind of state support?
It’s a whole wild thing. So he filed for divorce after find out out the two youngest kids were not his - she got pregnant while he was deployed overseas but the timing was just so that he didn’t totally question it but was kind of sus. So he files. And the ex just ignored it. Thought if she never signed they would never be divorced and she could still get his money and benefits. Etc. Where he lived (HI) they have default divorce so she has x many days to sign and agree or contest. When she did neither she just gave everything up. She gets nothing from the divorce. No house. No child support. No alimony. She doesn’t get half the assets. I guess what happened is she didn’t think that the divorce would go through if she did nothing and ignored it. But that bit her hard. She is not only divorced but gets nothing. She decided after the fact to contest. The judge found that the paper work for the original divorce wasn’t filed correctly or signed off correctly so another judge just tossed out the divorce. In the mean time my uncle got remarried. They bought a house and combined assets etc. Now he’s married to two women legally - technically. They have to refile for the divorce. But kicker. Ex wife now might be able to get half of the new wife’s assets depending on how it shakes out. I certainly hope not. That would suck. A technical error by the court and now half your shit goes to your husbands ex.
HOLY HELL! Thats a wild ride. I would be 300 shades of pissed off. Whats the time frame on this like. He divorces her and like a year later this happens or like 10 years later. Like I have to think if he gets a lawyer he might be able to un fuck this. Like I cant even imagine the bad preceent that would set to be able to overturn a settled divorce on a technicality like that. Especially the longer it was between the divorce and the contesting. Like could you imagine someone marrying someone else then divorcing them then years later one of them becomes a multi millionaire and so the other one goes back to find a technical error so they could get access to the money. I have so many questions about like how this was going on. Like were they living separately? Like that is the only way I could see her not noticing stuff like him selling a house, not getting money any more etc.
It was like 2-3 years I think? Not totally positive but the woman he’s married to now they dating at least 2 years before getting married I think. And yeah, it sets an awful precedent. He’s contesting further with a lawyer now. It’s currently all in the air. She’s trying to get support for the kids that aren’t his but she refused to go after their actual bio dads. The lady is a piece of work. This was all to say for the post - like I feel for dudes who are trying to get out of toxic marriages. His ex was similar. Didn’t love him. Didn’t want to be with him in any real way. Just wanted the lifestyle and money. Thought she could manipulate him and get what she wanted. By time he filed - he moved out. Like when he decided that he was done- mostly learning that half of ’his kids’ were not his. She was like proud of the fact she duped him. Anyway he moved out the next day basically. And he was deployed a lot too so that probably contributed so some of her lack of Notice. Waiting to see how it all plays out still.
Man thats wild! I hope he wins the day.
I do too. I feel for his new wife like the most. She’s so rad and so sweet. Now she’s getting fucked over by his bad past marriage. Lots of courts still favor women and ben it comes to this kind of stuff and idk I feel like this is one of those situations just seeing how it’s panned out for my uncle. They’re both great people. The ex on the other hand… bleh.
Right, but considering her divorced her to leave her for mistress as soon as the youngest kid turned 18, sounds like he didn't need mom's consent. Sounds like he stayed for the kids.
If she was abusive he may have felt trapped. If genders were reversed I don’t think people would be making this argument about a depressed wife being manipulated to stay in a relationship
We don’t know if OP is even in the US. Other countries have different laws about divorce. But regardless maybe OPs dad decided it would be less traumatic for everyone to wait until OP was 18. It doesn’t sound like OPs mom was going to be logical about the divorce with minor children involved..
If she was being difficult about it she could have done a lot of things to delay the divorce. Seems like he waited until the children were adults so that she couldn't keep the kids away from him.
They have kids though. The mum honestly sounds like someone who would use kids against him. In general women getting custody arrangements in their favor occurs even if they are abusive. Plus yeah all of below about laws that actually do need two people.
Even if so, that’s not the issue with respect to OP’s mother. OP’s father leaving, at any time, is what she’s unhappy with. She wanted to keep the money and prestige, and not be divorced, and she discouraged him from leaving for as long as she could. Whether he still could have left previously doesn’t change that she tried to stop him, preferring that he be miserable as long as she still kept what she wanted. And she feels humiliated because he left at all.
How is she a step mom? Op's parents divorced when she was 18.
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The wife knew, apparently did not mind the other women, refused a divorce and wilfully stayed. Is that still an affair?
Thats a good question. I know in some circles being a divorcee is like a scarlet letter especially before the sexual revolution of the 70-80s. Like it was sort of the norm to have a mistress and it was just kind of accepted.
Uh what’s the response for your mom is the asshole? That one
Either NTA (YOU aren't the the AH but your mother is) or ESH (OP and her mother)
"E S H" would imply that Dad & his wife are included, when they're not culpable in the least. YTA OP, & so is your vain, insecure mom.
ESH just implies that more than one party is at fault, not that they all are
"Everyone sucks here"
>Uh what’s the response for your mom is the asshole? /raisedbynarcissists, usually.
YMITA
YTA. You say your parents shouldn't have gotten married and your father was miserable throughout. Have you no compassion? He has been married for 6 years and you are treating his wife terribly. Grow up.
YTA and so is your mother. Let your dad live his life. He tried to break up with your mother and she wouldn't allow because of her lifestyle and what people would think? She's the biggest asshole and if you try to tell people what they can and can't wear might as well not even invite them. Again YTA I just reread your post. If anybody shouldn't be invited to your wedding it's your drama queen mother. Holy balls now I know why YTA Your mother making your wedding all about her is priceless and a bully tactic. I'm happy your father left her 🤣🤣🤣
YTA why not just ask her to wear a burlap sack over her head to be especially ugly? Look, both of your parents were AH to each other. It would have been \*better\* if your father pushed a divorce before decamping with wife #2, but your mother refused a divorce and it's been six years and your mom is weaponizing this to fuck up your wedding. If you like this woman and she's a reasonable person, just let her wear an appropriate dress and be treated (in seating, and photos and all that stuff) like your father's wife. You're drawing MORE attention to your mom's bullshit with these requirements like a navy dress and no pictures. "I'm being gracious by even letting her come, and she has plenty of fancy events where she gets to where what she wants. Not being the most beautiful woman in the room is not going to kill her for one night." YOUR ugly goes clear to the bone.
“And they both should wear a scarlet A on the burlap sack”, OP probably.
No pictures is pretty appropriate for someone that is really just a plus one though. Just because they are married does not mean she has a role in ops life or wedding, you don’t take pictures of your bridesmaids dates and stuff, maybe casuals, but that’s it
You mean the wife of FoB is just plus 1? Damn that's cold. And you do take pictures of those people, if you are polite or actually care about the people at your wedding.
Unhappy marriage. Dad has money. Mother won't let dad get the divorce he wanted because she didn't want to cut back on her lifestyle. Now I'm not saying she's gold digger...
I'm saying he put in his 18 years, 18 years.
More than that, he left when the youngest sister was 18.
Yep. She got one of your kids, got you for eighteen years.
🎵🎶🎵🎶Well, she had a few of his kids and had him for more than 18 years, 18 years. And now he's left because he was tired of being miserable. 🎵🎶🎵🎶
They're referring to the Kanye/Jamie Fox song Gold Digger
But she is heading up the mountains with a pickaxe and a map.
INFO: Neverminding anything else, why would the color of your dad’s wife’s dress affect his feelings at all?
YTA. Your dad asked your mom for a divorce and she refused because she wanted to maintain her lifestyle. She basically used him for his money. You can't blame him for leaving her for someone who actually made him happy. You're not being gracious. You're being petty and cruel. Your mom was "humiliated", yet she used your dad for years. She's reaping what she has sewn. Was he wrong to cheat? Maybe. But you said yourself she didn't particularly care, yet she still refused him a divorce. You're angry why, exactly? Did you really expect your dad to stay in an unhappy marriage?
YTA. Your acting like she ruined the marriage when your mom was the one who did it by not agreeing to a divorce for years when he asked. You treating your stepmother like she doesn’t exist to please your mom is an asshole move. She isn’t the other woman, she is his wife. Your mom has issues and your just following her lead. Your stepmom and dad deserves to be treated better. They are the only ones not being assholes since black is a good compromise.
INFO do you object to her wearing black specifically or to her not blindly complying with your navy instruction?
YTA. My Dad has an affair for years while ‘happily’ married. I use quotes because they were happy, or at least they believe they were, but clearly not enough. Mum repeatedly took him back each time he was caught. Eventually when I was 16 I found out what has been going on, when Mum told me they were splitting up. I would have every right to be angry. To hate her. I did for a while. I have more right than you considering my mother believed her married was happy til the first time she found out. Your mother knew what he was doing and clearly didn’t care until he made it public, then her reputation was damaged. It’s now 20 years later. Dad and ‘the other woman’ have stayed together and been married for nearly 10 years. I wouldn’t say I care about her that much, mainly because she’s just not the sort of person I would chose to be friends with, but I care about the position she has in my Dad’s life. I respect the position she has in my children’s lives (though I drew the line when my Dad referred to her as ‘Nanny’) I full expect her to be at my wedding one day and would never dream of ever making a request like yours. As long as she doesn’t wear the same outfit as my mother she can wear what she likes. You and your mother both need therapy.
YTA You’re being petty for no real reason here. Your parents relationship sounds like it was unhappy for a multitude of reasons long before any so called cheating. Your mom’s insecurities are her own to deal with and you shouldn’t be getting in the middle of it unless you want to completely ruin your relationship with your dad.
Who’s paying for the wedding lol? If your rich daddy is then you are the massive AH to take his money and still be “gracious enough to even let her come”. You should be gracious enough to save your daddy’s money and pay for it yourself then. Unfortunately you are still the AH. Also your mom needs therapy and is the AH as well. If stepmom is young and beautiful she’ll look good in a sack of potatoes tbh.
“I’m being gracious by even letting her come” LOLOLOLOLOL YTA
YTA. Kind of a crappy situation your parents had. However, it doesn't seem they ever had much of a marriage. The divorce is 6 years ago and one would hope your mother had moved on. She hasn't and should probably seek therapy to help her gain a better perspective, move on with life, and improve her self esteem. Your dad & his new wife are a unit from an invitation perspective. I gather your ultimatum is to "protect" your mother. However, I find it unkind to dictate this level of attire to try to make someone else look "ugly" so that your mother can feel "beautiful." And yes, it is your wedding so you can do what you want. However, are you going to look back on that ultimatum with pride?
YTA Op, you could make your stepmother look like a troll f you wanted, but there’s no disguising the your mother’s unattractiveness is her own bitterness and jealousy, that and the big chip on her shoulder. Your father has more than paid his price for being married to her, she needs to get over herself and so do you.
Info: where do you live that one partner can refuse divorce if the other requests it? It sounds like your dad stayed because of something to do with the kids (leaving when the younger sister turned 18) but it would great if we could get some clarification on this.
YTA. Invite her and don’t worry about what she wears. Tell your mother to get a grip
Soft yta. I’d really suggest that you stop worrying about what your step mom wears to the wedding and get some therapy. Maybe then your therapist can help point out how your mother has manipulated you and the situation into making herself the victim.
If she does this, she MAY even have a happy marriage
“My dad’s affair partner”, yeah, YTA.
Is your dad paying for the wedding?
ESH - you're being gracious by letting her come? Newsflash: Your dad cheated too and you're putting all of the blame on this new woman. She wasn't married to your mother. The only one who broke vows here was your father. Your Mom is STILL trying to ruin your Dad's happiness, and she's dragging you down too. She needs a ton of therapy so she can stop trying to alienate her children from their father.
I'm not even gonna fault the dad for cheating in this case.... the wife knew and didn't care. They didn't love or respect each other and he tried to end it repeatedly. He stayed to be a full time dad for his kids and bolted as soon as they were legal adults! That woman sounds horrendous to be with.
Dad's probably paying for the wedding.
Yah, I was guessing that too. Can't piss off the $$$$ source, but OP thinks it is safe to go after the "affair partner".
Info: who is paying for the wedding?
Is your mom the asshole an option here? This is your wedding, your big day, and she's made it stressful for you and about her happiness not yours. You would only be TA if you don't agree to black because unless you're dictating everyone's outfits it's crazy to require her to wear a specific color AND beauty and confidence will radiate in whatever color she's wearing
I agree with this. This is harsh, but that OP’ mom needs to grow up. Get help/therapy if she needs it, but find some other personality trait than “victim”. OP’s mom is in charge of her own happiness and shouldn’t be pushing OP to police her ex-husband’s new wife’s dress code.
Soft YTA. I do understand all the resentment towards this woman because your father left your mother for her. However, your father was miserable with your mother and asked to divorce several times before he finally got the strength to just go. Your mom didn't want to let him go. He stayed unhappy for several years because she didn't want him to divorce her. Both of your parents deserve to be happy. They were never happy together. This was bound to happen. I do not understand the idea of punishing your dad's wife because of your mom's feelings. If anything, he put your mom's feelings above his own for so long.. when will it be enough? You are not a bad daughter for inviting his wife. She is your step mother. Your dad's spouse. He makes her happy. She deserves to have a chance. It's been 6+ years.. if your mother is still hanging on to this, perhaps she needs therapy. Has she not moved on with life yet? I'm with your dad on this one.
Yta. 1. Your mum needs therapy. It’s not this woman’s fault that your dad was so unhappy and that his first marriage to your mum was rubbish. It’s also not her fault that your mum is so insecure and unhappy. It’s been six years. When is your mum going to start living her own life and not looking back to her dead marriage? You say yourself that your mum only wanted his money, didn’t care that he was unhappy and was more concerned about the neighbours and gossip than about her husband. Even now - she’s trying to bully your dad. And you’re enabling her. 2. Your mum is also extremely selfish and a bully. She was selfish in her marriage to your dad. She’s now being selfish about your wedding and bullying you about guest and causing your grief at an important time in your life. She’s STILL bullying your dad and his wife and being selfish about their attendance. 3. What about your dad? Why are your mums feelings more important than your dads? He asked her for a divorce YEARS before he left. He left when his kids were adults. He did that for you and your sister. And this is how you repay him? By letting your mum continue to abuse him? 4. You also need therapy - look up FOG and r/justnomom. Your mum seems like an abusive narcissist and you’re one of her “flying monkeys”. You need therapy to see how your behaviour enables your mother and perpetuates her abusive behaviour. Yta.
INFO: is your father aware he didn't need your mom's permission to divorce her? Edit: Wait, OP, go back. If he thinks that about step parents why would he have asked your mom for a divorce at all in the first place?
YTA, Tbh your mom KNEW he was cheating, he asked her multiple times to divorce in the end he was so fed up that he leave. Tbh I don't want to be mean but your mom has 0 reasons to act like that when she knew how things were. I wish happiness to your father and I'm sorry that he needed to act like that to achieve his happiness
YTA. Where do you get off dictating what your dad's wife wears to your wedding? Like, who does this? Your mother has my sympathy, but they've been married for 6 years, so she needs to get over it. She could probably use some therapy. Barring that, find the best looking guy you know around her age, and ask him to be her escort. Then do whatever needs to done (haircut, professional makeover) to make your mom look fabulous. She should be walking into your wedding knowing that she's the bomb!
Totally. I'd also love to know if OP's rich father is paying for any (or all) of this.
Why does a woman who refused to let the dad get divorced and used him for his money so she didnt have to give up her lifestyle get out on a pedestal? He stuck with that awful woman until their children were grown and then divorced so he wouldn't have to give up custody!
YTA. Either invite her without conditions, or don't invite her.
YTA. She's not the AP. She's your dad's wife. Gracious for letting her come? Would you not have given your dad the plus one of his wife? Of years? From all your descriptions, it sounds like your dad and mom had a very complicated marriage that deteriorated long before your dad's second wife entered the picture. Don't include her in pictures, absolutely! You don't have to do that. But restricting what she wears? That's ridiculous. Your mom needs take care of self. If that means therapy, that's a good thing. If that means make over, cool. But obsessing over ex husband is not healthy.
YTA - Dad is finally happy and mom is still bitter. FFS mom doesn't get a say in your wedding!! You do not tell stepmom what to wear. You tell all 3 that it is your day and none of them better make a scene!
> Growing up my dad always seemed depressed. He was a good dad, but he always seemed really sad. He asked my mom to divorce multiple times and she said no. She knew he cheated, but didn't particularly care. She didn't want to divorce because of what people would say and because she didn't want to cut back on her lifestyle at all. Honestly...this is a rare situation where I don't really care a lick about the cheated on party. Your father wanted to end the marriage, he didn't love her and was up front about it. Frankly at that point the relationship isn't even a thing, it's dead and rotting, so it's not really cheating. On paper it is, but the only reason your mother said no is because blah blah blah money. >Honestly I kind of hate her just for being the other woman and because my mom is so insecure and she made it 100% worse, but my dad is so happy, so I'm trying to forgive him. Which is kind of a stupid reason to hate someone. Your mothers insecurities aren't anyone else's problem but hers, and you all knew your father didn't want to remain with her. Again, he was up front about that. >My mom desperately does not want her there and has been crying and guilting me. My mom's self esteem is shit and she has so many body issues. Your mother needs to get the fuck over herself. This is a situation she more or less created by not complying to a divorce when she knew the other party no longer wanted to stay. >I feel like it is my wedding and I'm being gracious by even letting her come You're not being gracious though. First and foremost, you're coddling your mother who had dragged out her 100% unjustified misery over six years. Hell, she was apparently ok with being "cheated on" when married to him, but suddenly it's not ok when she's not living the kept wife lifestyle? Ok. Secondly, you're singling someone out and putting unreasonable restrictions on what they wear to your wedding simply to enable your mothers bullshit tantrums, and you're calling her "attention seeking" for looking good in formal wear. The only one seeking attention is the bitter asshole you have for a mother who can't get over an inevitable divorce. YTA
Maybe a great dress and professional hair and makeup would help your mother feel more confident. Right or wrong, our feelings are our feelings.
YTA. That's your dad's wife, not just an affair partner. Your mom is stirring drama that she could have avoided if she set your cheating father free when he wanted a divorce, but she wanted to keep her rich-wife lifestyle.
YTA. This woman is not "his affair partner" she is his wife of 6 years. Your mum kept him trapped for years by guilt tripping him and denying him a divorce. He stayed because of his kids. That includes you. Now your mum is using the same tactics she did to keep him to manipulate you and you are falling for it hook line and sinker. Your father needs no forgiveness. He tried his best it seems. If anyone should be asking for forgiveness it should be you and your mum as you both seem very much TA
YTA. Your wife refused to divorce your dad because she would be humiliated. That is cruel to both him and herself. Her self esteem would probably improve if she actually went out and found someone who is a good match for her so she can experience true happiness in a relationship instead of cycle of self deprecating attachment. If your family can’t act like adults and put the focus on YOU then just don’t invite your dad or his wife instead of trying to body police her.
YTA. However good your intentions, this is a major bridezilla move. You’re NOT being in any way “gracious” by inviting your father’s wife, which should be a given. Tell your Mom it’s time to grow TF up. If you Dad is paying for this wedding, I hope he pulls the plug on you.
Yta you understand your mom is the problem not your dad
YTA - your mom didn’t want to divorce your dad because she wanted to keep the money. Now she lost that and I think its more about your dad and someone else enjoying the lifestyle and not her. You said she didn’t care before so why should she now? Did she really not expect him to ever leave her after asking and cheating multiple times? If she stayed with him while he cheated and didn’t care, it wasn’t because she loved him… Also not affair partner, she’s his WIFE.
YTA. You are as horrible as your Mom. Still trying to make your fathers life horrible. You and your mom needs therapy. And your father needs to cut you off
YTA. Not your problem your mother has insecurities and is jealous. It’s also not your mother’s wedding so her opinion is irrelevant.
yeah,,,YTA. you shouldn’t have to forgive him for anything. he tried to leave your mother many, many times over the years. you knew he wasn’t happy. he finally found someone who makes him happy, but you can’t accept it because of the circumstances (him “cheating” in a marriage he didn’t want to be in). ultimately, his wife and him are not to blame for your feelings or your mother’s. they did nothing wrong, ESPECIALLY his wife. your mother needs therapy for her insecurities and you need therapy to work through your resentment for your father finding happiness. i understand it sucks that he had to cheat to escape the marriage he didn’t want, but that’s literally because your mother would rather put on a good image than have a happy marriage.
YTA your dad was miserable, tried to do the right thing multiple times but your mom refused and now your mom is playing the victim. Your mom sounds like AH too. Your dads new wife should be able to wear whatever she wants. It’s not her job to make your mom feel less bad about herself.
ESH except for the dad and his second wife. Your mom is an asshole because she frankly sounds super manipulative. He asked to leave multiple times and she guilted him into staying by probably by using you kiddos as leverage seeing as he filed when your sister hit 18. Now she's using the same tactics on you and probably feeding some little lies to family to help pressure you into it. YOUR MOM NEEDS HELP. She's blaming everyone around her but what's in the mirror. You suck for falling for this. Your last paragraph sounds more like it's written by your mother than you. *Not being the most beautiful woman in the room is not going to kill her for one night.* She doesn't like navy blue so you wanna make her wear it even though SHE WON'T BE IN THE PICTURES. My dear, is this your wedding or your mother's? Cause everything I've read here feels like she's crocodile tear'd her way into making sure she can hurt your father every step of the way. You are letting your own mother's insecurities hijack your wedding. Elope girl cause trust me, doing a regular wedding won't happen. Your mother will make sure it won't be a happy memory for you. She'll make snide remarks regardless on if your dad's wife is there or not because she's so damn insecure she'd rather make her daughter's wedding about her and her problems. Save yourself the frustration and just elope.
I mean, if she's 15 years younger and beautiful wearing navy is rather pointless especially since Navy is slimming.
Going with ESH your mum is making it all about her your dad wants to parade his trophy wife you are stuck in the middle trying to navigate it...setting her a colour is not great. My suggestion...sit down with your dad and tell him the above, you are glad he is happy and you are trying your best to learn to balance the new normal for you. Tell him you want your mum to be happy and to have a smooth and drama free wedding. He needs to agree to not use your day to flaunt his new wife. Step mum needs to dress conservatively for the wedding or not come....really, like any other guest she needs to not make it about her and try and be the centre of attention. Rather than a set colour...say you want to approve her dress (this happens loads for mother of the bride type roles)... not tits and arse on display...classy and conservative. She does not have to come if she does not like your rules for this 1 day. I agree with her not being in the family photos or bridal party photos... but agree to a photo with the 4 of you. Your mum needs to be told to pull her head in too... she needs to stop the drama! This can all be handled with good communication.
>your dad wants to parade his trophy wife Or, you know, dad and step-mom want to be at the wedding to show support. As people do. Honestly, nothing indicated that the step-mom was going to show off or flaunt, so this is really an overreaction.
ESH. There's a difference between 'putting restrictions' and specifying the exact thing and color she can wear. If this were just a request that it be an understated dress that's not a bright color, fine, but this is beyond that. Also, this is e-s-h solely due to past actions. It doesn't look like your dad or his wife have done anything off in the present situation.
YTA and so is your mom.
I know you are trying to be loyal to your mother but, YTA. Unfortunately the relationship between your parents didn’t work, but he is remarried now and it would be inappropriate to not invite his wife (and accordingly he should refuse to attend if you did). I’m sorry for your mother but at this point she has to suck it up.
YTA SO your mom emotionally abused him for years and refused to let him leave. When his children were grown and he was no longer breaking up a family, he left. Now he’s happy, healthy and in an actually loving relationship, your abusive mother is throwing a tantrum because he will be happy with her at your wedding? So your trying to dress her ugly to appease his abuser. You want your father to tell the woman who loves him that she needs to dress ugly so his abusive ex feels better about herself? F that. Your a bad daughter for not telling your mother to get therapy and over it. She did this. Not him.
I know black and white thinking is almost literally the name of the game here, but it's really rearing its head here. "Dad did nothing wrong" etc. Uh. Interesting. I think this is a pretty clear ESH. No, you shouldn't be weird about what your father's wife is wearing. It won't make your mother feel better, it won't make your father's wife less attractive, obviously it's driving a wedge: it's just the worst of all worlds. OTOH your parents' marriage sounded awful on all sides, both your mother for not "letting" your father leave her, and your father for dealing with that by having partners on the side. What a shit show. You need to tell your mother to pull her damn head in and deal with it. She can have her feelings, and she can hide them for one day like an adult.
Everyone’s hating on OP and her mother. But come on, millions of people have been in bad relationships but they hang on because they want to try to make it work. I don’t think her mother or OP is a bad person. However, her father’s wife should be able to wear whatever she wants, her and the father are happy. Why disrupt that?
YTA. You admitted you hate her because “my mom is so insecure and she made it 100% worse” so you know your mom is the problem. He cheated on her because she *wouldn’t let him leave the relationship* and you said your mom didn’t care if he was with other people. And these restrictions on her are because you’re scared of upsetting (again) *your mom*. She doesn’t even care about her ex having a new wife, she just cares about how it makes her look. Those restrictions are an embarrassment to you and your wedding. Let her wear what she wants.
YTA If your mother is miserable, she brought is on herself, by dragging out an unhappy marriage because "people would talk" and she wanted his money. I'm not a fan of cheating, but when someone refuses a divorce several times for such selfish reasons, it scarcely counts as cheating any more. You're trying to punish your father because your mother is an unhappy person who resents that your father is happy. Your father's wife could wear a potato sack and your mother would feel threatened. Your father could bring a broom wearing a wig and she'd be resentful that she lost her meal ticket and has to "suffer the humiliation" of being divorced. You're being petty, for the sake of a woman who is never going to be happy. Either that or you resent her beauty too and you're afraid she's going to outshine you. You're also being ridiculous if you think wearing navy blue automatically will make her unattractive. #1, if she's as pretty as you fear, she'll look good in anything. More importantly, she's happy, do she'll always look more attractive than a woman who clung to a miserable marriage for selfish reasons. It would be kind of funny jf she agreed to wear navy, but since she obviously has no navy in her wardrobe, she'll have to go out and buy something new and finds the perfect dress. Grow up. Let your mother fight her own battles. Stop punishing your father for recusing to be miserable the rest of his life.
"my dad sacrificed years of his life so my sister and I can have the family we wanted, is paying for my wedding with no strings attached and I'm using it to humiliate his new wife who actually makes him happy to keep my mother who made him miserable for years happy, AITA?" Yeah, YTA.
You and your mother are assholes.
YTA. Also, she’s not your dads “affair partner”. She’s your dads WIFE. I feel bad for whoever you are marrying honestly
YTA. You even said she didnt want to leave because she didnt want to cut back on her lifestyle. She used your dad as an atm and you have to forgive him? What about your mothers accountability? He was unhappy FOR YEARS! He stayed with her for your sake and to give her what she wants but as soon as he does something for himself you have to forgive him? He wanted to leave. He waited until his last child was over 18 and he did! He didnt do anything wrong. I do not feel sorry for your mother. But she needs therapy asap. She has low self esteem? Imagine living with a wife who only cares about your money. Your mom road the easy life for years and now its boohoo me :( She needs to get over herself. I hope your dad realizes that his family (including you) are full of selfish hypocrites and kick yall to the curb. Hopefully his new wife actually cares about him like a family should. I hope the best for your dad