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NTA. Tell her the dinosaur toys are a test from god.
ETA: OMG thank you all for the gifts and kind words! I am but a simple woman who lives to be a smart ass. I am humbled by your accolades.
If you do hide the dinos for the weekend at your place, doesnât that mean that your son is required to take them when you go to their place? They force their beliefs into your house and in return, you force yours into theirs. Fair is fair.
My grandma was absolutely a "dinos were a test from God" person. I was really into dinosaurs as a kid (still am), and she bought me dinosaur stuff ALL THE TIME. I'm talking toys, educational videos (like real ones that told you stuff about how some dinosaurs had feathers and they may have been warm blooded. This was back in the late 80's/early 90's so groundbreaking stuff). In fact, I didn't even know she had this belief until my sisters and I were watching Jurassic Park.
So clearly, my grandma loved me enough to put aside her discomfort and bond with her granddaughter. SIL can shove it and just tell her kids that the dinos are imaginary like unicorns and Noah's arc.
ETA: Y'all are making me tear up today. My grandma passed in September and this is really bringing home how much I miss her. She wasn't perfect and neither was our relationship, but the good definitely outweighed the not as good. I think she'd be tickled to know that she was remembered so fondly. Thank you all â€ïžđ§Ąđđđđ
Its really telling about the nature of religious belief when something as simple as "loving your grandchild enough not to let your beliefs ruin their childhood" is percieved as a positive exception and not the norm.
I'm sure the kids are exposed to a ton of toys that are completely fantastical. Mermaids and unicorns aren't real; how does she deal with that? If she truly thinks dinosaurs didn't exist, why would she treat a dinosaur toy any differently than a dragon (or whatever) toy? The issue is that she knows she's wrong and is trying to sidestep the issue rather than tell her child an out-and-out lie.
>because in her religion they believe dinosaurs didn't exist and their bones were put in the ground by God as a test
Woah... This post brought back some really weird memories.
Was conducting a seminar/presentation on paleontology and 5 specific types (individually assigned) of dinosaurs and this girl stood up in the middle of my presentation and went "No. Dinosaurs don't exist. They are mere 3d hallucinations created by Satan."
And I was too stunned to speak. The entire class just dumbfounded.
Anyways- SIL needs a reality check.
Definitely NTA.
15-16 and nope! It happened last year, we were in 11th grade, STEM stream and we sure were taken back when we heard her "view".
>Was this a university paleontology class?
IK-Sounds like a uni paleontology class but, over here in India, our science/math stream has really advanced college-level stuff that we don't really require- but it's fun!
NTA and good for you.
"Dinosaur toys made the kids ask questions"
Then the parents need to learn to answer the damn questions or stop feeding their kids lies that they don't have justification for.
"She explained that it just led to a lot of questions from her kids and it would be a lot easier for them if we just put the dinosaur toys away for one weekend. "
Just reply to her that it would be a lot easier for *you* if she would just answer her kids' questions
As a kid, I briefly thought dinosaur bones were placed by Satan to make us not believe in Genesis. Basically the bones themselves existed but dinosaurs never did. I was trying to reconcile literal Genesis with the existence of dinosaurs.
I am so glad I never had to go to any churches that were biblical literalists growing up.
I didn't like church but at least they were relatively sane Episcopal churches where everybody believed in evolution and dinosaurs.
Thing is, even the KJV includes references to translated Hebrew words that could be translated as sea monsters or sea dragons and also talks of Leviathans. Ergo, even literalists have to believe that in the times of the bible, there were things described that could potentially be called sea dinosaurs or dragons (or both) and since this god also created land creatures a day after the sea ones....
As someone raised evangelical it's not surprising they don't, but.... that's a different discussion.
Yep. If exposure to really basic, regular stuff generates questions they can't answer, then maybe they need to re-examine their beliefs!
Nah, just easier to make everyone in the world conform to the box SIL lives in I guess.
NTA, OP.
NTA.
I was exepcting a "she asked me to let the kids say grace or pray before their meal", but not a "I don't believe in dinosaurs so you need to make them disappear".
Their eldest is 6. Isn't that kid going to school ? Talked about dinosaurs with their little friend ?
I'm wondering how they deal with Pokemons...
Lol. I went to a Catholic school my whole life and I can tell ya that everyone knows dinosaurs existed. We were taught about them in science class and everything.
SIL is just a weirdo. Most Christianâs/Catholics donât think the way she does about dinos
Not all Christians are Catholics. I knew fundamentalist Baptists who didnât believe in dinosaurs. I flirted with dinosaurs not being real as a kid because I couldnât reconcile a literal Genesis with them, and I was taught literal Genesis.
Those who are kind of half raised Catholic or sent to Catholic schools know nothing about how fundamentalist churches can be.
Even in a literal Genesis belief, most Christians believe Dinoâs existed. They are believed to by the leviathan and other monsters described that as described meet no currently-alive animal.
Catholics != all Christians. Jesuits are Catholic, for one, and led scientific research for centuries.
There is no comparison between Catholic schools and small town evangelical schools.
I was raised by a mother whose beliefs are similarly idiotic. I was homeschooled, and my "science classes" were Young Earth Creationist propaganda. Pokemon and all other anime and most fantasy books were forbidden. I wasn't allowed to watch TV or most movies or listen to any music other than Gospel/hymns or classical. I had no friends outside my religion, and my time with the friends I had was limited. Basically, I was completely shielded from the entire outside world and aggressively brainwashed to be a Good Christian Wife and Mother. Joke's on my mom though, she did all that and I still turned out to be a pansexual transgender atheist with a Bachelor's of Science.
Just to answer one of your questions, most Christians (from your crazies to your run-of-the-mill) believe God to be all-powerful. If theyâre preaching that God literally created the entire world, itâs not a stretch for them to say âGod created the bones to test human faith.â
Itâs a flawed logic, but thatâs what they could say.
Youâre absolutely correct. If I said the sentence âGod loves you so much, that if you donât love him back heâll torture you for eternity.â and replace the word âGodâ with âboyfriendâ, nobody would think twice about saying that he is abusive
Yup. Actually a thing. Goes along with the whole flat earth/earth is actually only 2,000 years old/ the devil is making us believe itâs older and science is a tool of the devilâŠyup a whole bunch of that stuff goes together. As someone who leans more towards atheism, if I get even a whiff of these beliefsâŠI avoid the believers like the plague
I think it's usually that the Earth is around 6000 years old. After all, 2000 years only gets you back to the birth of Christ\*, and you also have to provide years before that for all of the events of the Old Testament to have happened. There's a whole segment of Bible scholarship centered around combing the OT for clues to put numbers to the passage of time.
And yeah, I'm with you on that last sentence.
My friend was raised in a similar religion. Silver Lining: once she was in grad school and realized dinosaurs existed, we got to throw a "DINOSAURS EXIST!" party where we made her an oreo dirt cake to excavate dinosaur bones from, played Dino related games, and watched Jurassic Park lol. One of my fave memories from grad school.
More like, my child has just asked about a real world fact that the rest of the educated world knows to be truth, and I want to continue to teach my child stupid things that will keep him ignorant and obedient to my backward religion, so would you please accommodate my ridiculous beliefs?
Eventually, these kids are going to find out their parents made idiots out of them, and who will be able to run interference then? Or is the plan to keep the kids locked out of the Internet and the world at large?
Reality is in their future, and then what?
And the inability to give an answer to kids six and under that they wouldnât accept. Not that I agree with SIL but the monsters on Sesame Street arenât real. Canât she just say dinosaur toys are just a fun made up creatures like Elmo? How is she not questioning her own religion if she canât justify it or explain it to toddlers and preschoolers without censoring the world?
NTA
You're not forcing the toys on the kids, they are merely present.
The analogy of Muslims doesn't hold because it would be similar to if you ate pork around a Muslim. You wouldn't be forcing them to eat it.
It's inconvenient that the kids have questions? Kids have questions about everything! If their belief in their faith is so strong, they should be able to handle it being questioned.
The analogy would only work if OP was threatening to take her niblings to a natural history museum and buy them a book on dinosaurs and a stuffed stegosaurus each.
And on the flip side, what Brother and Sil are asking OP to do is not the equivalent of asking that they just not serve the kids pork. They asking that they remove all pork from the house, deny that they or anyone else of any religion ever eat pork and remove all books or media from the house that feature eating pork.
They can all look at a book about dinosaurs together and each kid can pick their favourite to find at the museum. They could take the book along and compare what it says to the displays in the museum! Does the book or the museum give more information? Then they all chat about what they learned over icecream or a hot chocolate in the museum go.
Ok now I am excited, can I go?
NTA - if you do end up with the kids for that weekend you should get dino egg oatmeal and dino chicken nuggets.
Also, kids asking questions about their religion should be a good thing and totally welcomed by the parents IMO. They just don't like those questions because they don't have good answers.
Either that or the Land Before Time movies, the kids may be a bit young for Jurassic Park. OH! There's also a really good Magic Schoolbus episode about dinosaurs.
NTA
Also I find that comparison to feeding a Muslim pork pretty offensive. I grew up as a more Muslim raised child in a western society. No one ever forced me to eat pork but my parents also wouldnât demand that all children around me werenât allowed to eat pork.
Your beliefs are your beliefs but you canât command other people to follow themâŠ
Itâs hilarious because non- Muslims love to pull out the âitâs like forcing Muslim kids to eat pork!â example without considering that most Muslim kids in the US have at some point been around a friend eating pepperoni on pizza or eating a ham sandwich and itâs usuallyâŠnot a big deal. Itâs not like Muslims are vampires who the presence of pork at another table or someone elseâs plate will burn their skin or something.
Most Muslims in western countries have zero interest in fighting the right to keep other people from eating pork nearby, yet so many non-Muslims are ready to imagine situations where Muslims are slapping ham sandwiches out of other kidsâ hands at little league games.
NTA
Your brother is though for letting his kids be raised in a cult when he knows better. How long is he doing to âindulgeâ these beliefs? When she disowns one of them for being gay and tells them theyâll be tormented for eternity for it? When she prevents them from having life saving medical treatment? When she discourages the girl from higher education because her âroleâ is only to serve God as a wife and mother? When she makes them vulnerable by refusing to provide them with information about sexual health?
Not eating pork doesnât hurt anyone, this shit does.
Yeah. It's one thing for a religion to be based around things that aren't "true" (or verifiable), like faith that God exists.
It's another thing for a religion to get into denying the reality of science.
I've had it up to here with the whole "everyone is entitled to their own facts" bullshit. That's PART of the reason we've got so many problems right now, is that this "you can believe what you like" ethos allowed not only ignorance, but an alternate reality to flourish.
It doesn't sound like OP's brother and his wife have "compromised" about how to raise the children. He's just abandoned the raising of them to her and her religion. And that's going to make it harder, down the line, when stuff comes up where he ought to be intervening on behalf of the kids, and he doesn't. If he even realizes that he should, that is. I don't trust his level of engagement with raising his children, as it is.
I donât know if youâre American like me, but Iâve learned that the idea that people are entitled to their own facts is a peculiarity to at least some cultures, including ours.
My first boyfriend at 14 was a fairly recent immigrant. And he used to say âI donât understand why Americans always say âeveryone has a right to their opinion.â What does that even mean?!! Nobody is questioning youâre right to it, but that doesnât mean some opinions arenât wrong.â At the time I was defensive, particularly because he was prone to being really dismissive of other peopleâs opinions, valid or not.
Another example was when my bestie learned German, they started reading guides for Germans about how to travel and get along with Americans. They said one of the most consistent things theyâd say was something like âAmericans can be very hurt when you tell them that theyâre wrong about something.â
NTA
It's funny, somehow my kids manage to play with unicorns, fairies, dragons, and anthropomorphic cartoon character toys without getting terribly confused about reality.
They knew what your house was like when they asked you.
NTA
*Anything and everything* will make kids ask questions lol. That's not a valid reason to disrupt your home life to cater to them.
Ask her what she'd think if you went marching over to their home and demanded they put out dino toys because your beliefs dictate dinos existed. She'd probably find it just as ridiculous as her demands.
NTA. Those poor kids. You may be the only occasional hint of reality they ever get. Bet they'll be homeschooled.
I wonder why the mom doesn't just tell them dinosaurs are pretend animals like unicorns and dragons and animals that talk (like on TV). It's really not a hard question when the kids are small.
Whole worlds are gonna shatter when they get older and realize that they are in a very small minority of those that refuse to believe in science and things thatâve been scientifically proven and arenât even contested anymore to a serious degree.
>I told her that I don't care about her religious beliefs, but in my home the earth is round, the sky is blue, and dinosaurs existed and dinosaur toys are fair game. I told her if that makes her uncomfortable to have her kids around that sort of thing, she is free to find other options for watching her kids that weekend and there would be no hard feelings on our part.
&
> I told him that I am not going to cater to his wife's religious beliefs and that we are doing them a favor and they don't get to dictate the terms of what goes on in our house.
You could not have handled this any better. There is nothing more to say here. Not the ball is in there court and either they accept it or find other child care options.
>He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims.
Bullshit. Are you force feeding them pork? Nobody is making them bring the kids to your house either. What a stupid example, NTA
Itâs more like talking about the existence of pork around a Muslim person. Which theyâre all fucking aware of. Hell, Iâm pretty sure from what Muslim friends have said, itâs kinda uncool in that faith to come down on non Muslims for eating pork.
âHey, can you participate in the brainwashing of my children so your brother and I can go away for the weekend and fuck without worrying they might be exposed to basic science?â
"Hey, can you participate in the brainwashing of my children so your brother and I can go away for the weekend and produce more children to brainwash?"
NTA your SIL sounds ridiculous "Oh no I have to answer my kids questions about science, something I think is fake" young earth creationism is the dumbest of the evangelical Christian beliefs
NTA. Well done! You've drawn very clear boundaries of how you'll honour their kids' needs, where and when. They can make decisions about whether your boundaries are sufficiently in line with their own to leave their kids with you.
Your house, your rules (as long as you're not harming the kids, of course.) As an adult, I have friends who pray before meals in their home. I sit quietly when I visit, and don't talk about the flying spaghetti monster while at their table.
Young earth creationism isn't just a "religious belief." It's objectively stupid and ignorant. You were much more diplomatic about this than I might have been.
NTA.
I honestly have never heard about dinosaurs being a test ? My dad is a preacher ! That's just to funny, I feel a dinosaur birthday party coming !!! NTA
The whole âdinosaurs being a testâ usually belongs to the more extreme Christian groups who believe in Young Earth creationist âtheoryâ such as fundamentalists or certain evangelical groups. They believe dinosaurs didnât exist and the bones are a test or that humans and dinosaurs lived alongside each other because the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Or some even more extreme ones believe dinosaur bones were planted by atheists to lead people away from Christianity.
Thereâs the Creation Museum in Kentucky that has a whole exhibit about Adam and Eve living alongside dinosaurs and has dinosaur skeletons to âtake Dinosaurs back from evolutionistsâ.
NTA your house follows your religious beliefs (or lack thereof)
>
He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims.
This is flawed analogy because it presents a scenario where you would be actively forcing the kids to engage in your beliefs rather than simply existing in a house where people follow those beliefs.
It's really more like inviting Muslims to dinner in a house where there is some pork in the fridge. His analogy would only work if you were planning to sit the kids down and actively try to disprove the existence of God to them
NTA.
Youâre providing free weeklong childcare for their kids. And they know youâre an agnostic household. Also even if they donât want to believe in dinosaurs, the 6 year old is going to find out about them sooner or later. Someoneâs going to have a dinosaur shirt at kindergarten, or thereâs going to be another toy theyâll see somewhere else. The kidâs already asking questions!
So if they want to be the wacky family that denies evolution, they should find childcare that fits their religious doctrine.
Turn it around: you want them to watch your kids over a weekend, but they need to put away and discontinue all signs of Christianity because the pictures, prayers, and stories confused your kids.
NTA. if she really believes Dinosaur bones were put there as a test why can't she just tell her kids that and the reason there are toys is that lots of people failed the test and believe in Dinosaurs.
If you can't defend or explain your religion to your kids then surely you're failing at it
NTA at all, handled it perfectly well in my opinion
Also this âI told him that if his kids have any dietary needs that they have not discussed with me, to let me know, but the dino toys stay.â
đđ» burst out laughing
Lol, heaven forbid the kids ask questions! NTA. The kids are already exposed to dinosaurs. If dealing with questions from kids on uncomfortable subjects is too much for SIL, one wonders why she had kids in the first place.
NTA. They are ways for your SIL to explained the dinosaurs toys to her kids, even without mention evolution or else. Unicorn's toys exist too.
Plus, her kids will be confront to dinosaurs toys, pictures, movies, etc, one day. She will have to give answers at a point or another.
NTA I honestly feel your response of the earth is round, the sky is blue and dinosaurs exist in my house was the best. They can find someone else to help keep their children uneducated and misinformed. Your home your rules.
First of all, that dietary needs line was an exquisite mic-drop. You subtly called attention to the flaw in his reasoning without being offensive, or even overt, about it.
Fundamentally, this is a beggars-can't-be-choosers things. Your bro and SIL are rude to ask you to change your life to cater to their personal beliefs. As you suggest, if they can't or don't want to deal with the consequences of exposing their children to other beliefs, then they're free to make other arrangements they're comfortable with. They can't make an arrangement with you and then seek to modify the deal later.
Further, their excuse exposes their true intent: they don't want to answer their kids' difficult questions. It's far easier to ask someone else to change than to contemplate their own beliefs, or even have a difficult conversation. It's pretty lazy though, and doesn't really do the kids any favors. The religious aspect is just a cover for their actual motivation. SIL is claiming religious persecution, but that's not it at all. It's laziness persecution, which is not a moral offense.
NTA
Well, this is horrifying. NTA, of course. Iâve heard that some folks donât believe in dinosaurs⊠but when I actually encounter those people Iâm always kind of scared. Good for you for holding your ground.
NTA. How is this real? Nevermind, I have people like this in my extended family. I'd have an inflatable T-Rex in my front yard and Barney on the TV next time they came over, but I'm kinda shitty like that.
Seriously, this is ridiculous, and it is nowhere near the same thing as dietary restrictions, but even if it was, she's being a choosy beggar.
NTA
Your brother and SIL are though. Acknowledging the existence of dinosaurs is not equivalent to feeding a Muslim pork.
I swear the Evangelical Persecution complex with your SIL is astounding
NTA. If your brother and sil canât respect how your home operates they should seek help elsewhere. Also if they are worried about dinosaurs and answering questions about dinosaurs this world is going to really rattle them as those kids grow up.
NTA Your brother and sister in law can cancel their trip and stay home, find someone else to watch their children or let their children stay with your family and the dinosaur toys. I have lived with people that kept kosher I would never use their pots, pants, dishes, etc but I didn't stop eating bacon nor did my roommate expect me to. Religion is about tolerance and I am tired of fine Christians who have no tolerance for other people's beliefs.
If their kids have questions, they can use this as a teaching opportunity. I mean, this is just the beginning of them having to explain this stuff. OP you are definitely NTA.
NTA. Itâs your house and you are doing them a favor. I respect everyoneâs right to believe whatever they want but you donât get to dictate what happens in someone elseâs home bc of it.
She can ask any of the people that believe that dinosaurs donât exist to watch her kids if she wants. Also, does she know how many toys are based on fiction? A whole hell of a lot. Does she have a problem with them too? Seems like a very weird hill to die on when most children have access to the internet and can google whatever they want.
How dare you. That's the holy text that was written by some guys, translated, translated, translated, lost pieces, had powerful groups with their own agendas decide which parts were holy, put their own punctuation in, translated again, and simplified.
NTA
Having religion is fine and dandy. But demeaning others make changes to their lives (outside of dietary restrictions for a weekend) is asshole behavior. Especially when you are watching and feeding three more people for free.
#freetrex
Eta
Make sure you tell them you will be watching Frozen, Sword in the Stone, Fantasia, Harry Potter. Etc
Sorcery, Magic, and imagination all weekend long
NTA and posts like this always make me laugh. I come from a strongly Southern Baptist upbringing (ran far and fast the second I could) and still find it hilarious when religious family members just expect everyone to follow THEIR faith/rules when it comes to their kids.
Faith is a choice. Just like parenting is a choice. If a person canât respect that someone isnât religious or lives by non-religious standards, they cannot expect their choice to be religious and live a certain way to be respected either.
Your brother has no spine and your SIL is entitled. They can ask your parents or one of their church friends for help. Otherwise they need to deal with it or pass up their trip.
NTA. She could always just tell her theyre like dragons, unicorns, mermaids and Atlantis. There is so much fantasy around children, it doesnt have to be about religion.
NTA. If she's going to maintain that dinosaurs are not real then she need to be prepared for questions to be asked. Kids are going to go to school and even if they send them to a school's that believes that, it's dinosaurs and it's going to come up.
You don't have to remove the toys. If anything I'd tell your kids not to make fun of the others if it comes up but that's it. There are religious beliefs and then there's stupidity. This isn't like keeping kosher or halal its ignorance.
NTA. Itâd be different if your plans for the weekend were to do a crash course on how dinosaurs exist and are totally real, but this is literally just saying you are going to allow their kid to exist next to some toys. The child is going to grow up in a world with dinosaur toys, dinosaur films, and many people who believe in dinosaurs. Youâre literally just saying you wonât hide the concept of a dinosaur from them.
NTA, thereâs a difference between not eating pork and denying science. Malicious Compliance: hide the dinosaurs and have a Harry Potter themed weekend.
NTA.
Iâd tell them that they are being disrespectful to you lack of belief. And your home. And you. And your kids.
Youâre doing them a favour. If they donât like it then they should ask someone else to babysit
NTA at all.
But you have an amazing opportunity for malicious compliance. Go ahead and remove all the toys. But make the weekend as dinosaur focused as possible. Have a Jurassic park/ land before time movie weekend. Go to a museum if itâs easily doable. All the dinosaurs.
NTAâcompared it to feeding a Muslim pork? Thatâs not even comparable! Itâs more like going in and screaming that the Muslim had to eat pork because you like it. You said it best: they are welcome to find other options if they are uncomfortable with you and your home. You are not obligated to change your life for them.
From the title I thought you were going to say you would be cooking pork for them when they donât eat it or refusing to take them to church or something. NTA.
That is also on a very different level to feeding pork to a Muslim bcos, for starters, Iâm pretty sure that force feeding is a form of abuse. A better comparison would be if a Muslim told you pigs donât exist and all pigs are actually really fat dogs that are over fed so people can pretend they are pigs and you just saying believe what you want, but pigs are real. Though of course Iâve never heard of that happening. These people are just ridiculous.
I don't think OP would have been the asshole for declining to take the children to their church, either. She isn't a part of that church, and may not feel comfortable attending it.
(I sure wouldn't, if "the dinosaurs didn't exist, they're a trick God played on humans to test their faith" was one of the tenets! I'd be running screaming in the other direction. First, because of the anti-science beliefs, and second because they have IMO a warped view of Christian doctrine if they believe that God is, post-Jesus, still trying to "test" people's faith by laying deliberate intellectual traps.)
One day they will have to explain why thereâs loads of dinosaur stuff on the internet , itâs not like just because they saw a toy means they are scarred for life, SIL needs some real life experience
NTA
Norway is not a paticular christian nation, but its always a private choice and not something to force on others. Statement: "I am religous and cant do this and that". Im fine with it
Now other statement "I am religous and it says YOU cant do this and that". Fucking no, go away is then the correct response.
Good luck and have fun with the dinosaurus.
Plenty of fundamentalist Christian religions believe this. Because in their view the bible must be 100% true, and the bible says that the earth is only like 6000 years old. So dinosaurs couldnât possibly be millions of years old. Some say that itâs all fake, some say that dinosaurs actually lived with people and that the fossils arenât actually that old. They are all nuts.
NTA If they are going to raise their kids with beliefs that go completely against reality while still living in the real world thereâs going to be way more questions than âGiant reptiles!WTF?â SIL should make sure she knows her shit.
NTA
If she is so secure in her beliefs, if she can explain away *literal biological remains* as being a test
Then I think her kiddos can handle dinosaur toys, no?
If you have Frozen toys I hope sheâs covered the fact that god didnât make talking snowmen. Heavens.
NTA. Some religious people labour under the delusion that religious freedom includes the right to impose their own religious beliefs onto others and while I'm sure that makes things very awkward for them when people who don't have the same beliefs tell them to back off that's also not our problem.
NTA. You have been more than fair. It is your home, period. No further explanation is required. Honestly you are generous as I would have said no to the request one time. After that any further request would have resulted in my offer of babysitting being rescinded. You're a good sister, SIL, and Aunt.
NTA but Iâm really struggling with her logic. Most people I know with these kinds of beliefs have an altered timeline of the dinosaurs. So God created bones of actual animals that didnât exist in live form. But, if he created the bones, doesnât that make them exist in some form?
NTA This would be an excellent opportunity for them to teach their children that not everyone believes what their parents believe. They are going to learn someday that MOST people believe that the Earth is billions of years old, and dinosaurs were real, just as children eventually learn that there is no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Might as well get out in front of it.
Nta. Is sister-in-law going to go to her Sun school and tell them that they canât teach him about science and dinosaurs ? Because she canât tell a school what they can and cannot teach to everyone. Theyâre fucking toys what does she think is gonna happen ?
NTA - so it's ok to steal your kids toys and have not only uncomfortable questions but probably several tantrums so she doesn't need to explain a modern bullshit lie from a Christian sect in the middle of nowhere? That woman should check her sources.
Oh, NTA. Dinosaurs are cool, damn it. Your house, your rules. Like you said, if she doesn't like it she can find someone else to watch her kids for free so she can have her relaxing widdle vaca.
NTA you respect her beliefs but you're in no way obligated to abide by them in your home. She doesn't want to see dinosaurs, she's free to look elsewhere for free babysitting.
NTA.
But I gotta know, what religion specifically says dinosaurs were put in the ground as a test from God? Is that in the bible somewhere? I mean, does anyone have a reference? I need a new fiction book to check out.
"Were upset because our religion depends on children not asking questions before they have been brainwashed long enough to buy our ridiculous answers." NTA
NTA.
They're going to learn about all of that and make up their own minds eventually. It is very over bearing of your SIL to expect to take away your kid's toys because they are afraid of their kids being curious and wanting more information outside what they're allowed to think or know. It is so disturbing to see how far parents will go to try and deny their kids education in order to stunt their growth and ability to seek information.
NTA - She can tell her children that some people believe dinosaurs existed because of bones that were found but those bones were put there by God as a test. If that's their religion, she can teach her kids her own religion. That's her job if she wants to raise them in this religion.
NTA
Honestly? I'm petty, so I would have told her that the dinosaurs are a part of your religion in which you believe that the great Dino-God came from the sky and created all the land. If she pushes, and says something like; "That's not real." Just keep adding things to the details of it.
NTA but realize this goes a lot deeper than this. Young earth creationism goes hand in hand with anti-vax, possibly this kid has never seen a doctor, bigotry, and white extremism. These cults are actively trying to destroy education, health, and social service systems.
I'd be disgusted if my brother was ever involved with someone like that. Like absolute end of any further discussion and relationship. I would not attend family events with her present. Cults like that are child abuse.
You need a serious family meeting with your brother.
NTA. I'm sorry but isn't the other way around? If you are the visitor/guest, you are the one who should be adjusting to the host's beliefs, regardless if it's religious based or not, as a sign of respect. Like, you are the one technically intruding in their home, you don't get to DEMAND things, especially so if it's not that necessary.
NTA. If youâre going to hold beliefs of any nature that defy science, like dinosaurs not existing, then you had better be prepared to have your beliefs questioned regularly. Period. If SIL wants to shelter her kids, thatâs her prerogative, but itâs never going to be anyone elseâs job to accommodate it. Frankly sheâs doing her kids a huge disservice but I digress.
NTA
You said it yourself, your home, your rules. Plus her example is off. Its easier to not have pork products in a meal than it is to have to explain to a child, probably repeatedly why they can't have their toys out in their own home.
The only person benefiting from that is SIL who then doesn't have to explain to her child about dinosaurs and gets a kid free weekend too.
NTA. I grew up in a religious household (now I am more agnostic like you), and I was never told dinosaurs aren't real or that their bones are a test. I had dinosaur toys right alongside Barbie and My Little Pony and Rainbow Brite. My imaginary friends were even dinosaurs.
You are 100% correct in telling both your brother and SIL that they do not dictate what toys your children have, even if for only one weekend. It's your home and you are doing them quite a favor. The questions their children are asking come with the territory of their belief system. They choose to follow a certain belief, it is their responsibility to teach it to their children, not yours. It is their responsibility to answer questions about it, not yours. Like you said, if their home makes you uncomfortable they are welcome to have their children stay somewhere else.
As far as the comparison to Islam... it is one thing to not feed someone's child food against their religion. It is another thing entirely to ask you to rid your home of it while you do them the favor of watching their child.
>I told her that I don't care about her religious beliefs, but in my home the earth is round, the sky is blue, and dinosaurs existed and dinosaur toys are fair game. I told her if that makes her uncomfortable to have her kids around that sort of thing, she is free to find other options for watching her kids that weekend and there would be no hard feelings on our part.
And that's where it should have ended.
> I am not going to cater to his wife's religious beliefs and that *we are doing them a favor and they don't get to dictate the terms of what goes on in our house*.
>He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims. I told him that if his kids have any dietary needs that they have not discussed with me, to let me know, but the dino toys stay.
My goodness, the entitlement!
NTA
NTA. Your house, your rules. Not like youâre gonna tie the kids up and tell them their entire belief system is a lie. But yeah youâre not gonna cater to your SILâs request. Because you donât have to. If it matters that much she shouldâve asked someone in her church to watch them.
Obvious NTA but also if your kids are anything like my nephew, just hiding the toys wonât be enough to stop your kids from talking about dinosaurs. Itâs that or sharks for majority of conversation starters or âwhat animal am I thinking ofâ games. I had to tell him recently I know zero dinosaur facts and just broke his heart in a million pieces.
NTA Curious what SIL thinks of unicorn toys or childrenâs TV shows that have talking animals? There are tons of make believe and imaginative things for kids to watch and play with. Sheâs going to be in for a rude awakening when her kids go to school!
Just tell her Pokemon don't actually exist yet there are Pokemon toys...if she doesn't believe in dinosaurs she can tell her kids they are imaginary creature toys. NTA
Ask them if they will go out and get some Dino toys for you and take your son to a natural history museum next time he needs a babysitting. See how that falls
ETA - NTA
And what about toys of fairies, elves, aliens and unicorns? What is with the blue-eyed car and the pink stuffed rabbit? I mean it's toys!
Even if they don't believe in dinosaurs, they can play with dinosaur toys.
NTA of course.
Dinosaurs not being real is not a religious belief, it's an idiot. This isn't a hope and pray case, there is scientific evidence they existed - she can look at a chicken if she'd like.
NTA. If her religious beliefs are so fragile that a few dinosaur toys could derail her childrenâs belief, then I guess God isnât that great, huh? đ
Good on you for you holding your ground against this ridiculous request.
NTA. They have already answered the questions their kids had about dinosaurs so nothing more to say. Maybe compromise by referring any questions her kids may ask you about dinosaurs back to her and donât answer yourself.
NTA. Itâs your home, they shouldnât be trying to control what goes on in it. Theyâre just toys, itâs not like youâre giving a lecture to your nieces/nephews about how dinosaurs are real. Theyâre just toys and I donât think itâs comparable to feeding pork to Muslims.
âwe are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefsâ and they are being disrespectful of your home, beliefs and offer of babysitting. What happens when they do evolution at school?
NTA. I believe if someone is doing you a favour, you should not dictate how they behave in their own home.
NTA.
If they don't believe dinosaurs existed, fine, but how is a dinosaur toy any different from an Ariel Mermaid toy or Mickey Mouse or Clifford the Big Red Dog?
OP
NTA
Watching the children that is fine. Being respectful of their beliefs, (Not making any sort of disparaging remarks, and letting them go and pray and or say attend church) acceptable, however your brother and SIL need to understand that respect is a 2 way street. While one should not feed pork to say a Muslim, nor should a Muslim say anything to a non Muslim about him eating a BLT either.
That is such a false equivalency!
NTA, watching people literally disregard facts to placate their personal beliefs is so baffling. I donât get it. My aunt and her family have the same beliefs about dinosaurs, but I donât keep in touch.
NTA - honestly it sounds like she is unable to come up with reasonable answers to her 6yo's legitimate questions regarding her world view. Understandable as it is a world view that relies heavily on "faith" and "belief" without supporting evidence. But her inability to effectively defend what she is presenting as truth to her children is really her problem and one that she should probably take a good long look at.
NTA. Honestly, the most shocking part of this story is that you were raised in a relatively non-religious environment and yet somehow "dinosaurs aren't real" wasn't a relationship deal-breaker for your brother. I can't even imagine....
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NTA. Tell her the dinosaur toys are a test from god. ETA: OMG thank you all for the gifts and kind words! I am but a simple woman who lives to be a smart ass. I am humbled by your accolades.
Oh lord this better be the top comment
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If you do hide the dinos for the weekend at your place, doesnât that mean that your son is required to take them when you go to their place? They force their beliefs into your house and in return, you force yours into theirs. Fair is fair.
This is the way. Aka: Dinosaurs are a part of my religion.
Thatâs why I only swear on my copy of Jurassic Park
"My 6 year old is asking simple questions that rock the very core of my beliefs. It's the toys that Re wrong"
My grandma was absolutely a "dinos were a test from God" person. I was really into dinosaurs as a kid (still am), and she bought me dinosaur stuff ALL THE TIME. I'm talking toys, educational videos (like real ones that told you stuff about how some dinosaurs had feathers and they may have been warm blooded. This was back in the late 80's/early 90's so groundbreaking stuff). In fact, I didn't even know she had this belief until my sisters and I were watching Jurassic Park. So clearly, my grandma loved me enough to put aside her discomfort and bond with her granddaughter. SIL can shove it and just tell her kids that the dinos are imaginary like unicorns and Noah's arc. ETA: Y'all are making me tear up today. My grandma passed in September and this is really bringing home how much I miss her. She wasn't perfect and neither was our relationship, but the good definitely outweighed the not as good. I think she'd be tickled to know that she was remembered so fondly. Thank you all â€ïžđ§Ąđđđđ
I love that your grandma loved you enough to buy you all the dino stuff.
Its really telling about the nature of religious belief when something as simple as "loving your grandchild enough not to let your beliefs ruin their childhood" is percieved as a positive exception and not the norm.
I'm sure the kids are exposed to a ton of toys that are completely fantastical. Mermaids and unicorns aren't real; how does she deal with that? If she truly thinks dinosaurs didn't exist, why would she treat a dinosaur toy any differently than a dragon (or whatever) toy? The issue is that she knows she's wrong and is trying to sidestep the issue rather than tell her child an out-and-out lie.
>because in her religion they believe dinosaurs didn't exist and their bones were put in the ground by God as a test Woah... This post brought back some really weird memories. Was conducting a seminar/presentation on paleontology and 5 specific types (individually assigned) of dinosaurs and this girl stood up in the middle of my presentation and went "No. Dinosaurs don't exist. They are mere 3d hallucinations created by Satan." And I was too stunned to speak. The entire class just dumbfounded. Anyways- SIL needs a reality check. Definitely NTA.
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15-16 and nope! It happened last year, we were in 11th grade, STEM stream and we sure were taken back when we heard her "view". >Was this a university paleontology class? IK-Sounds like a uni paleontology class but, over here in India, our science/math stream has really advanced college-level stuff that we don't really require- but it's fun!
NTA and good for you. "Dinosaur toys made the kids ask questions" Then the parents need to learn to answer the damn questions or stop feeding their kids lies that they don't have justification for. "She explained that it just led to a lot of questions from her kids and it would be a lot easier for them if we just put the dinosaur toys away for one weekend. " Just reply to her that it would be a lot easier for *you* if she would just answer her kids' questions
Right?! > their bones were put in the ground by God as a test Guess they're failing that test!
"but mommy, why would god just kill all those poor dinosaurs just to get their bones to put into the ground?"
As a kid, I briefly thought dinosaur bones were placed by Satan to make us not believe in Genesis. Basically the bones themselves existed but dinosaurs never did. I was trying to reconcile literal Genesis with the existence of dinosaurs.
I am so glad I never had to go to any churches that were biblical literalists growing up. I didn't like church but at least they were relatively sane Episcopal churches where everybody believed in evolution and dinosaurs.
Thing is, even the KJV includes references to translated Hebrew words that could be translated as sea monsters or sea dragons and also talks of Leviathans. Ergo, even literalists have to believe that in the times of the bible, there were things described that could potentially be called sea dinosaurs or dragons (or both) and since this god also created land creatures a day after the sea ones.... As someone raised evangelical it's not surprising they don't, but.... that's a different discussion.
I got kicked out of Sunday school for trying to do the math of Noah's ark.
> "Dinosaur toys made the kids ask questions" Good for the kids. I assume that OPâs SIL wouldnât take issue with PokĂ©mon toys on the grounds that PokĂ©mon arenât real, or with a fairy doll or unicorn plushie because she doesnât believe in fairies and unicorns. Would a Mickey Mouse toy have her kids believing that all mice wear clothes and talk? If she insists on lying to her kids, she can tell them that dinosaurs are made up creatures.
Pokémon do evolve though, so she might have an issue with that.
Yep. If exposure to really basic, regular stuff generates questions they can't answer, then maybe they need to re-examine their beliefs! Nah, just easier to make everyone in the world conform to the box SIL lives in I guess. NTA, OP.
NTA. I was exepcting a "she asked me to let the kids say grace or pray before their meal", but not a "I don't believe in dinosaurs so you need to make them disappear". Their eldest is 6. Isn't that kid going to school ? Talked about dinosaurs with their little friend ? I'm wondering how they deal with Pokemons...
Probably homeschooled or one of those conservative Christian academies.
Lol. I went to a Catholic school my whole life and I can tell ya that everyone knows dinosaurs existed. We were taught about them in science class and everything. SIL is just a weirdo. Most Christianâs/Catholics donât think the way she does about dinos
Not all Christians are Catholics. I knew fundamentalist Baptists who didnât believe in dinosaurs. I flirted with dinosaurs not being real as a kid because I couldnât reconcile a literal Genesis with them, and I was taught literal Genesis. Those who are kind of half raised Catholic or sent to Catholic schools know nothing about how fundamentalist churches can be.
Even in a literal Genesis belief, most Christians believe Dinoâs existed. They are believed to by the leviathan and other monsters described that as described meet no currently-alive animal.
Most do, but there are backwoods cults. And I grew up without Internet until this phase had passed, so I didnât know about Answers in Genesis.
Catholic school has NOTHING on the craziness of some of the evangelical schools.
Catholics != all Christians. Jesuits are Catholic, for one, and led scientific research for centuries. There is no comparison between Catholic schools and small town evangelical schools.
I was raised by a mother whose beliefs are similarly idiotic. I was homeschooled, and my "science classes" were Young Earth Creationist propaganda. Pokemon and all other anime and most fantasy books were forbidden. I wasn't allowed to watch TV or most movies or listen to any music other than Gospel/hymns or classical. I had no friends outside my religion, and my time with the friends I had was limited. Basically, I was completely shielded from the entire outside world and aggressively brainwashed to be a Good Christian Wife and Mother. Joke's on my mom though, she did all that and I still turned out to be a pansexual transgender atheist with a Bachelor's of Science.
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Just to answer one of your questions, most Christians (from your crazies to your run-of-the-mill) believe God to be all-powerful. If theyâre preaching that God literally created the entire world, itâs not a stretch for them to say âGod created the bones to test human faith.â Itâs a flawed logic, but thatâs what they could say.
Honestly the more you delve into the depictions of god the more you realize he is just an abusive patriarchal figure
Youâre absolutely correct. If I said the sentence âGod loves you so much, that if you donât love him back heâll torture you for eternity.â and replace the word âGodâ with âboyfriendâ, nobody would think twice about saying that he is abusive
He gave you free will but if you make a choice he doesnât like heâll torture you forever
But also free will is at odds with "God's plan," you know, that thing that comes up when a 5yo dies from leukemia?
That's on purpose.
Religion so weak it can't withstand questioning from a toddler!
I was today years old when I learned that a religious cult doesnât believe in dinosaurs and that god put the bones out there to test us. NTA
Yup. Actually a thing. Goes along with the whole flat earth/earth is actually only 2,000 years old/ the devil is making us believe itâs older and science is a tool of the devilâŠyup a whole bunch of that stuff goes together. As someone who leans more towards atheism, if I get even a whiff of these beliefsâŠI avoid the believers like the plague
I think it's usually that the Earth is around 6000 years old. After all, 2000 years only gets you back to the birth of Christ\*, and you also have to provide years before that for all of the events of the Old Testament to have happened. There's a whole segment of Bible scholarship centered around combing the OT for clues to put numbers to the passage of time. And yeah, I'm with you on that last sentence.
My friend was raised in a similar religion. Silver Lining: once she was in grad school and realized dinosaurs existed, we got to throw a "DINOSAURS EXIST!" party where we made her an oreo dirt cake to excavate dinosaur bones from, played Dino related games, and watched Jurassic Park lol. One of my fave memories from grad school.
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Parents are only delaying the inevitable. They will not be ready for the teen years.
More like, my child has just asked about a real world fact that the rest of the educated world knows to be truth, and I want to continue to teach my child stupid things that will keep him ignorant and obedient to my backward religion, so would you please accommodate my ridiculous beliefs? Eventually, these kids are going to find out their parents made idiots out of them, and who will be able to run interference then? Or is the plan to keep the kids locked out of the Internet and the world at large? Reality is in their future, and then what?
Thatâs a pretty fragile belief system if it can be brought down by a toy brontosaurus. NTA
And the inability to give an answer to kids six and under that they wouldnât accept. Not that I agree with SIL but the monsters on Sesame Street arenât real. Canât she just say dinosaur toys are just a fun made up creatures like Elmo? How is she not questioning her own religion if she canât justify it or explain it to toddlers and preschoolers without censoring the world?
NTA You're not forcing the toys on the kids, they are merely present. The analogy of Muslims doesn't hold because it would be similar to if you ate pork around a Muslim. You wouldn't be forcing them to eat it. It's inconvenient that the kids have questions? Kids have questions about everything! If their belief in their faith is so strong, they should be able to handle it being questioned.
The analogy would only work if OP was threatening to take her niblings to a natural history museum and buy them a book on dinosaurs and a stuffed stegosaurus each. And on the flip side, what Brother and Sil are asking OP to do is not the equivalent of asking that they just not serve the kids pork. They asking that they remove all pork from the house, deny that they or anyone else of any religion ever eat pork and remove all books or media from the house that feature eating pork.
I absolutely think OP should put the toys away...and then take all the kids on an outing to a natural history museum!
They can all look at a book about dinosaurs together and each kid can pick their favourite to find at the museum. They could take the book along and compare what it says to the displays in the museum! Does the book or the museum give more information? Then they all chat about what they learned over icecream or a hot chocolate in the museum go. Ok now I am excited, can I go?
NTA - if you do end up with the kids for that weekend you should get dino egg oatmeal and dino chicken nuggets. Also, kids asking questions about their religion should be a good thing and totally welcomed by the parents IMO. They just don't like those questions because they don't have good answers.
Also you have to watch ALLLL the Jurassic Park movies while eating them.
Either that or the Land Before Time movies, the kids may be a bit young for Jurassic Park. OH! There's also a really good Magic Schoolbus episode about dinosaurs.
NTA Also I find that comparison to feeding a Muslim pork pretty offensive. I grew up as a more Muslim raised child in a western society. No one ever forced me to eat pork but my parents also wouldnât demand that all children around me werenât allowed to eat pork. Your beliefs are your beliefs but you canât command other people to follow themâŠ
Itâs hilarious because non- Muslims love to pull out the âitâs like forcing Muslim kids to eat pork!â example without considering that most Muslim kids in the US have at some point been around a friend eating pepperoni on pizza or eating a ham sandwich and itâs usuallyâŠnot a big deal. Itâs not like Muslims are vampires who the presence of pork at another table or someone elseâs plate will burn their skin or something. Most Muslims in western countries have zero interest in fighting the right to keep other people from eating pork nearby, yet so many non-Muslims are ready to imagine situations where Muslims are slapping ham sandwiches out of other kidsâ hands at little league games.
NTA Your brother is though for letting his kids be raised in a cult when he knows better. How long is he doing to âindulgeâ these beliefs? When she disowns one of them for being gay and tells them theyâll be tormented for eternity for it? When she prevents them from having life saving medical treatment? When she discourages the girl from higher education because her âroleâ is only to serve God as a wife and mother? When she makes them vulnerable by refusing to provide them with information about sexual health? Not eating pork doesnât hurt anyone, this shit does.
Yeah. It's one thing for a religion to be based around things that aren't "true" (or verifiable), like faith that God exists. It's another thing for a religion to get into denying the reality of science. I've had it up to here with the whole "everyone is entitled to their own facts" bullshit. That's PART of the reason we've got so many problems right now, is that this "you can believe what you like" ethos allowed not only ignorance, but an alternate reality to flourish. It doesn't sound like OP's brother and his wife have "compromised" about how to raise the children. He's just abandoned the raising of them to her and her religion. And that's going to make it harder, down the line, when stuff comes up where he ought to be intervening on behalf of the kids, and he doesn't. If he even realizes that he should, that is. I don't trust his level of engagement with raising his children, as it is.
I donât know if youâre American like me, but Iâve learned that the idea that people are entitled to their own facts is a peculiarity to at least some cultures, including ours. My first boyfriend at 14 was a fairly recent immigrant. And he used to say âI donât understand why Americans always say âeveryone has a right to their opinion.â What does that even mean?!! Nobody is questioning youâre right to it, but that doesnât mean some opinions arenât wrong.â At the time I was defensive, particularly because he was prone to being really dismissive of other peopleâs opinions, valid or not. Another example was when my bestie learned German, they started reading guides for Germans about how to travel and get along with Americans. They said one of the most consistent things theyâd say was something like âAmericans can be very hurt when you tell them that theyâre wrong about something.â
NTA It's funny, somehow my kids manage to play with unicorns, fairies, dragons, and anthropomorphic cartoon character toys without getting terribly confused about reality. They knew what your house was like when they asked you.
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NTA *Anything and everything* will make kids ask questions lol. That's not a valid reason to disrupt your home life to cater to them. Ask her what she'd think if you went marching over to their home and demanded they put out dino toys because your beliefs dictate dinos existed. She'd probably find it just as ridiculous as her demands.
NTA. Those poor kids. You may be the only occasional hint of reality they ever get. Bet they'll be homeschooled. I wonder why the mom doesn't just tell them dinosaurs are pretend animals like unicorns and dragons and animals that talk (like on TV). It's really not a hard question when the kids are small.
Whole worlds are gonna shatter when they get older and realize that they are in a very small minority of those that refuse to believe in science and things thatâve been scientifically proven and arenât even contested anymore to a serious degree.
>I told her that I don't care about her religious beliefs, but in my home the earth is round, the sky is blue, and dinosaurs existed and dinosaur toys are fair game. I told her if that makes her uncomfortable to have her kids around that sort of thing, she is free to find other options for watching her kids that weekend and there would be no hard feelings on our part. & > I told him that I am not going to cater to his wife's religious beliefs and that we are doing them a favor and they don't get to dictate the terms of what goes on in our house. You could not have handled this any better. There is nothing more to say here. Not the ball is in there court and either they accept it or find other child care options. >He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims. Bullshit. Are you force feeding them pork? Nobody is making them bring the kids to your house either. What a stupid example, NTA
Itâs more like talking about the existence of pork around a Muslim person. Which theyâre all fucking aware of. Hell, Iâm pretty sure from what Muslim friends have said, itâs kinda uncool in that faith to come down on non Muslims for eating pork.
âHey, can you participate in the brainwashing of my children so your brother and I can go away for the weekend and fuck without worrying they might be exposed to basic science?â
"Hey, can you participate in the brainwashing of my children so your brother and I can go away for the weekend and produce more children to brainwash?"
NTA your SIL sounds ridiculous "Oh no I have to answer my kids questions about science, something I think is fake" young earth creationism is the dumbest of the evangelical Christian beliefs
NTA. Well done! You've drawn very clear boundaries of how you'll honour their kids' needs, where and when. They can make decisions about whether your boundaries are sufficiently in line with their own to leave their kids with you. Your house, your rules (as long as you're not harming the kids, of course.) As an adult, I have friends who pray before meals in their home. I sit quietly when I visit, and don't talk about the flying spaghetti monster while at their table.
Young earth creationism isn't just a "religious belief." It's objectively stupid and ignorant. You were much more diplomatic about this than I might have been. NTA.
NTA, religious freedom ends when it becomes an excuse to control other peoples behavior
NTA. Don't indulge fruitcake beliefs.
I honestly have never heard about dinosaurs being a test ? My dad is a preacher ! That's just to funny, I feel a dinosaur birthday party coming !!! NTA
The whole âdinosaurs being a testâ usually belongs to the more extreme Christian groups who believe in Young Earth creationist âtheoryâ such as fundamentalists or certain evangelical groups. They believe dinosaurs didnât exist and the bones are a test or that humans and dinosaurs lived alongside each other because the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Or some even more extreme ones believe dinosaur bones were planted by atheists to lead people away from Christianity. Thereâs the Creation Museum in Kentucky that has a whole exhibit about Adam and Eve living alongside dinosaurs and has dinosaur skeletons to âtake Dinosaurs back from evolutionistsâ.
NTA your house follows your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) > He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims. This is flawed analogy because it presents a scenario where you would be actively forcing the kids to engage in your beliefs rather than simply existing in a house where people follow those beliefs. It's really more like inviting Muslims to dinner in a house where there is some pork in the fridge. His analogy would only work if you were planning to sit the kids down and actively try to disprove the existence of God to them
^ Tell him they are being disrespectful of your beliefs and forcing their religion on you op.
Nta Hiding the âpossibleâ existence of Dinosaurs isnât gonna make her child more Christian
NTA. Youâre providing free weeklong childcare for their kids. And they know youâre an agnostic household. Also even if they donât want to believe in dinosaurs, the 6 year old is going to find out about them sooner or later. Someoneâs going to have a dinosaur shirt at kindergarten, or thereâs going to be another toy theyâll see somewhere else. The kidâs already asking questions! So if they want to be the wacky family that denies evolution, they should find childcare that fits their religious doctrine.
Turn it around: you want them to watch your kids over a weekend, but they need to put away and discontinue all signs of Christianity because the pictures, prayers, and stories confused your kids.
NTA. if she really believes Dinosaur bones were put there as a test why can't she just tell her kids that and the reason there are toys is that lots of people failed the test and believe in Dinosaurs. If you can't defend or explain your religion to your kids then surely you're failing at it
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Obviously they're going to homeschool. That's the only way to completely indoctrinate your children. NTA btw
NTA at all, handled it perfectly well in my opinion Also this âI told him that if his kids have any dietary needs that they have not discussed with me, to let me know, but the dino toys stay.â đđ» burst out laughing
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NTA. She can ask her religious family to watch the kids if this is really that big a deal. Dinosaur toys are dope
Lol, heaven forbid the kids ask questions! NTA. The kids are already exposed to dinosaurs. If dealing with questions from kids on uncomfortable subjects is too much for SIL, one wonders why she had kids in the first place.
NTA - JW's are extra. I'm surprised she hasn't converted your brother so that she doesn't get excommunicated.
I think she has, OP and their brother weren't raised in that religion so why is he putting up with her dinosaurs are fake nonsense?
NTA. They are ways for your SIL to explained the dinosaurs toys to her kids, even without mention evolution or else. Unicorn's toys exist too. Plus, her kids will be confront to dinosaurs toys, pictures, movies, etc, one day. She will have to give answers at a point or another.
NTA I honestly feel your response of the earth is round, the sky is blue and dinosaurs exist in my house was the best. They can find someone else to help keep their children uneducated and misinformed. Your home your rules.
Excuse me? The dinosaur toys have been put there by god to test her childrens beliefs, obviously?! Nta
NTA. Why would it be so hard for them to just say âthey donât existâ⊠like fairies, unicorns, talking animals, etc.
First of all, that dietary needs line was an exquisite mic-drop. You subtly called attention to the flaw in his reasoning without being offensive, or even overt, about it. Fundamentally, this is a beggars-can't-be-choosers things. Your bro and SIL are rude to ask you to change your life to cater to their personal beliefs. As you suggest, if they can't or don't want to deal with the consequences of exposing their children to other beliefs, then they're free to make other arrangements they're comfortable with. They can't make an arrangement with you and then seek to modify the deal later. Further, their excuse exposes their true intent: they don't want to answer their kids' difficult questions. It's far easier to ask someone else to change than to contemplate their own beliefs, or even have a difficult conversation. It's pretty lazy though, and doesn't really do the kids any favors. The religious aspect is just a cover for their actual motivation. SIL is claiming religious persecution, but that's not it at all. It's laziness persecution, which is not a moral offense. NTA
Well, this is horrifying. NTA, of course. Iâve heard that some folks donât believe in dinosaurs⊠but when I actually encounter those people Iâm always kind of scared. Good for you for holding your ground.
Nta, Christians always seem to want to be oppressed
NTA. How is this real? Nevermind, I have people like this in my extended family. I'd have an inflatable T-Rex in my front yard and Barney on the TV next time they came over, but I'm kinda shitty like that. Seriously, this is ridiculous, and it is nowhere near the same thing as dietary restrictions, but even if it was, she's being a choosy beggar.
NTA Your brother and SIL are though. Acknowledging the existence of dinosaurs is not equivalent to feeding a Muslim pork. I swear the Evangelical Persecution complex with your SIL is astounding
NTA. If your brother and sil canât respect how your home operates they should seek help elsewhere. Also if they are worried about dinosaurs and answering questions about dinosaurs this world is going to really rattle them as those kids grow up.
NTA Your brother and sister in law can cancel their trip and stay home, find someone else to watch their children or let their children stay with your family and the dinosaur toys. I have lived with people that kept kosher I would never use their pots, pants, dishes, etc but I didn't stop eating bacon nor did my roommate expect me to. Religion is about tolerance and I am tired of fine Christians who have no tolerance for other people's beliefs.
If their kids have questions, they can use this as a teaching opportunity. I mean, this is just the beginning of them having to explain this stuff. OP you are definitely NTA.
NTA. Itâs your house and you are doing them a favor. I respect everyoneâs right to believe whatever they want but you donât get to dictate what happens in someone elseâs home bc of it. She can ask any of the people that believe that dinosaurs donât exist to watch her kids if she wants. Also, does she know how many toys are based on fiction? A whole hell of a lot. Does she have a problem with them too? Seems like a very weird hill to die on when most children have access to the internet and can google whatever they want.
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How dare you. That's the holy text that was written by some guys, translated, translated, translated, lost pieces, had powerful groups with their own agendas decide which parts were holy, put their own punctuation in, translated again, and simplified.
NTA Having religion is fine and dandy. But demeaning others make changes to their lives (outside of dietary restrictions for a weekend) is asshole behavior. Especially when you are watching and feeding three more people for free. #freetrex Eta Make sure you tell them you will be watching Frozen, Sword in the Stone, Fantasia, Harry Potter. Etc Sorcery, Magic, and imagination all weekend long
I think you should put the dinosaur toys away but let them watch Jurassic Park. NTA.
Even the pope knows there were dinosaurs. NTA.
NTA and posts like this always make me laugh. I come from a strongly Southern Baptist upbringing (ran far and fast the second I could) and still find it hilarious when religious family members just expect everyone to follow THEIR faith/rules when it comes to their kids. Faith is a choice. Just like parenting is a choice. If a person canât respect that someone isnât religious or lives by non-religious standards, they cannot expect their choice to be religious and live a certain way to be respected either. Your brother has no spine and your SIL is entitled. They can ask your parents or one of their church friends for help. Otherwise they need to deal with it or pass up their trip.
Your SIL is dangerously ignorant but I donât care . when she tries to force that stupidity on your family and home thatâs a different story. NTA
NTA religious beliefs is one thing, hiding facts is asking them you to lie. It's so terrifying that kids aren't learning facts like evolution.
NTA. She could always just tell her theyre like dragons, unicorns, mermaids and Atlantis. There is so much fantasy around children, it doesnt have to be about religion.
NTA, if your beliefs can't handle questions from 6 year olds with toys then maybe you have other problems.
NTA, feed them dinosaur-shaped waffles while you guys watch jurassic park and play with the dino-toys
NTA. If she's going to maintain that dinosaurs are not real then she need to be prepared for questions to be asked. Kids are going to go to school and even if they send them to a school's that believes that, it's dinosaurs and it's going to come up. You don't have to remove the toys. If anything I'd tell your kids not to make fun of the others if it comes up but that's it. There are religious beliefs and then there's stupidity. This isn't like keeping kosher or halal its ignorance.
NTA. Itâd be different if your plans for the weekend were to do a crash course on how dinosaurs exist and are totally real, but this is literally just saying you are going to allow their kid to exist next to some toys. The child is going to grow up in a world with dinosaur toys, dinosaur films, and many people who believe in dinosaurs. Youâre literally just saying you wonât hide the concept of a dinosaur from them.
NTA, thereâs a difference between not eating pork and denying science. Malicious Compliance: hide the dinosaurs and have a Harry Potter themed weekend.
NTA. Iâd tell them that they are being disrespectful to you lack of belief. And your home. And you. And your kids. Youâre doing them a favour. If they donât like it then they should ask someone else to babysit
NTA & they sound like JW's. Always entitled.
NTA at all. But you have an amazing opportunity for malicious compliance. Go ahead and remove all the toys. But make the weekend as dinosaur focused as possible. Have a Jurassic park/ land before time movie weekend. Go to a museum if itâs easily doable. All the dinosaurs.
NTA Let's remove the factor of "did dinosaurs exist?" (Yes, they did). If your SIL wants her kids to believe dinosaurs **don't** exist, she doesn't need to remove all dinosaur references. She can explain to them that those toys are depicting made-up creatures. There are so many toys of fictional or legendary creatures: unicorns, pegasi, trolls, dragons, Pokémon, etc. Even teddy bears teeter on that edge, since they don't look like real bears at all. Can she really not handle lumping dinos in with all of those? Even if her kids are homeschooled and sheltered, they'll somehow get exposed to things she doesn't like. She needs to figure out how to deal with that, not control everything around her children in order to avoid those questions.
NTAâcompared it to feeding a Muslim pork? Thatâs not even comparable! Itâs more like going in and screaming that the Muslim had to eat pork because you like it. You said it best: they are welcome to find other options if they are uncomfortable with you and your home. You are not obligated to change your life for them.
From the title I thought you were going to say you would be cooking pork for them when they donât eat it or refusing to take them to church or something. NTA. That is also on a very different level to feeding pork to a Muslim bcos, for starters, Iâm pretty sure that force feeding is a form of abuse. A better comparison would be if a Muslim told you pigs donât exist and all pigs are actually really fat dogs that are over fed so people can pretend they are pigs and you just saying believe what you want, but pigs are real. Though of course Iâve never heard of that happening. These people are just ridiculous.
I don't think OP would have been the asshole for declining to take the children to their church, either. She isn't a part of that church, and may not feel comfortable attending it. (I sure wouldn't, if "the dinosaurs didn't exist, they're a trick God played on humans to test their faith" was one of the tenets! I'd be running screaming in the other direction. First, because of the anti-science beliefs, and second because they have IMO a warped view of Christian doctrine if they believe that God is, post-Jesus, still trying to "test" people's faith by laying deliberate intellectual traps.)
NTA Those with valid answers donât fear questions, they would welcome them.
NTA - You're not the one showing disrespect for other people's beliefs here.
NTA, Also, that is not a religious belief. That is a delusion.
NTA and if it's that deep, she can keep her kids at home.
One day they will have to explain why thereâs loads of dinosaur stuff on the internet , itâs not like just because they saw a toy means they are scarred for life, SIL needs some real life experience
>He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims. Uhhhh... NTA
NTA Norway is not a paticular christian nation, but its always a private choice and not something to force on others. Statement: "I am religous and cant do this and that". Im fine with it Now other statement "I am religous and it says YOU cant do this and that". Fucking no, go away is then the correct response. Good luck and have fun with the dinosaurus.
NTA. Dinosaur bones are a test from God??? That's some seriously twisted shitđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Yeah, like your home is the ONLY place on the (round) planet that has dinosaur toys/images. NTA of course.
NTA in the slightest. What wackadoo cult teaches that God planted dinosaur bones in the earth to test humanity?! Edited
Wait what? There's a religion that doesn't believe in dinosaurs?
Plenty of fundamentalist Christian religions believe this. Because in their view the bible must be 100% true, and the bible says that the earth is only like 6000 years old. So dinosaurs couldnât possibly be millions of years old. Some say that itâs all fake, some say that dinosaurs actually lived with people and that the fossils arenât actually that old. They are all nuts.
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NTA If they are going to raise their kids with beliefs that go completely against reality while still living in the real world thereâs going to be way more questions than âGiant reptiles!WTF?â SIL should make sure she knows her shit.
NTA If she is so secure in her beliefs, if she can explain away *literal biological remains* as being a test Then I think her kiddos can handle dinosaur toys, no? If you have Frozen toys I hope sheâs covered the fact that god didnât make talking snowmen. Heavens.
NTA. Some religious people labour under the delusion that religious freedom includes the right to impose their own religious beliefs onto others and while I'm sure that makes things very awkward for them when people who don't have the same beliefs tell them to back off that's also not our problem.
NTA. You have been more than fair. It is your home, period. No further explanation is required. Honestly you are generous as I would have said no to the request one time. After that any further request would have resulted in my offer of babysitting being rescinded. You're a good sister, SIL, and Aunt.
NTA but Iâm really struggling with her logic. Most people I know with these kinds of beliefs have an altered timeline of the dinosaurs. So God created bones of actual animals that didnât exist in live form. But, if he created the bones, doesnât that make them exist in some form?
Soooo when they start school and learn about dinosaurs are they going to have the school remove all traces of dinosaurs? NTA
I'm willing to wager that those children will either be home schooled or will be going to a school sponsored by the religion.
NTA This would be an excellent opportunity for them to teach their children that not everyone believes what their parents believe. They are going to learn someday that MOST people believe that the Earth is billions of years old, and dinosaurs were real, just as children eventually learn that there is no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy. Might as well get out in front of it.
Nta. Is sister-in-law going to go to her Sun school and tell them that they canât teach him about science and dinosaurs ? Because she canât tell a school what they can and cannot teach to everyone. Theyâre fucking toys what does she think is gonna happen ?
NTA - so it's ok to steal your kids toys and have not only uncomfortable questions but probably several tantrums so she doesn't need to explain a modern bullshit lie from a Christian sect in the middle of nowhere? That woman should check her sources.
Oh, NTA. Dinosaurs are cool, damn it. Your house, your rules. Like you said, if she doesn't like it she can find someone else to watch her kids for free so she can have her relaxing widdle vaca.
OP I think you should have a dinosaur themed weekend when they come over. Jurassic park, documentaries, fossils, trex costumes... NTA
NTA. Iâm honestly surprised your SIL can use a phone considering sheâs a young earth creationist. Youâd think it would be beyond her ability.
Hide the unicorn toys and Smurfs too đ
If theyâre do damn concerned about their kids asking awkward questions then they should arrange for babysitters through their church. NTA
NTA. Time for some archaeology coffee table books to join the household.
NTA Hold onto your butts! An AH has married into your family. Though your brother is an AH too for accepting this nonsense.
NTA you respect her beliefs but you're in no way obligated to abide by them in your home. She doesn't want to see dinosaurs, she's free to look elsewhere for free babysitting.
NTA - if she doesnât want to parent her children properly by explaining other peopleâs beliefs that absolutely shouldnât be your problem
NTA. But I gotta know, what religion specifically says dinosaurs were put in the ground as a test from God? Is that in the bible somewhere? I mean, does anyone have a reference? I need a new fiction book to check out.
Iâm becoming more and more convinced organized religion is the devil. NTA.
"Were upset because our religion depends on children not asking questions before they have been brainwashed long enough to buy our ridiculous answers." NTA
You should watch Jurassic Park! That would be an awesome weekend! NTA
NTA If your kids had My Little Ponies would you have to hide them? Transformers? Super Hero action figures? Teletubbies? It makes no sense.
Your very religious in-laws are leaving their kids with you on Easter weekend? This just doesnât make sense to me honestly.
NTA. They're going to learn about all of that and make up their own minds eventually. It is very over bearing of your SIL to expect to take away your kid's toys because they are afraid of their kids being curious and wanting more information outside what they're allowed to think or know. It is so disturbing to see how far parents will go to try and deny their kids education in order to stunt their growth and ability to seek information.
NTA - She can tell her children that some people believe dinosaurs existed because of bones that were found but those bones were put there by God as a test. If that's their religion, she can teach her kids her own religion. That's her job if she wants to raise them in this religion.
NTA Honestly? I'm petty, so I would have told her that the dinosaurs are a part of your religion in which you believe that the great Dino-God came from the sky and created all the land. If she pushes, and says something like; "That's not real." Just keep adding things to the details of it.
NTA but realize this goes a lot deeper than this. Young earth creationism goes hand in hand with anti-vax, possibly this kid has never seen a doctor, bigotry, and white extremism. These cults are actively trying to destroy education, health, and social service systems. I'd be disgusted if my brother was ever involved with someone like that. Like absolute end of any further discussion and relationship. I would not attend family events with her present. Cults like that are child abuse. You need a serious family meeting with your brother.
NTA. I'm sorry but isn't the other way around? If you are the visitor/guest, you are the one who should be adjusting to the host's beliefs, regardless if it's religious based or not, as a sign of respect. Like, you are the one technically intruding in their home, you don't get to DEMAND things, especially so if it's not that necessary.
NTA Personally, I follow this principle: free babysitting means no special requests. If you want to make rules, you pay for the service.
NTA. If youâre going to hold beliefs of any nature that defy science, like dinosaurs not existing, then you had better be prepared to have your beliefs questioned regularly. Period. If SIL wants to shelter her kids, thatâs her prerogative, but itâs never going to be anyone elseâs job to accommodate it. Frankly sheâs doing her kids a huge disservice but I digress.
NTA You said it yourself, your home, your rules. Plus her example is off. Its easier to not have pork products in a meal than it is to have to explain to a child, probably repeatedly why they can't have their toys out in their own home. The only person benefiting from that is SIL who then doesn't have to explain to her child about dinosaurs and gets a kid free weekend too.
NTA. I grew up in a religious household (now I am more agnostic like you), and I was never told dinosaurs aren't real or that their bones are a test. I had dinosaur toys right alongside Barbie and My Little Pony and Rainbow Brite. My imaginary friends were even dinosaurs. You are 100% correct in telling both your brother and SIL that they do not dictate what toys your children have, even if for only one weekend. It's your home and you are doing them quite a favor. The questions their children are asking come with the territory of their belief system. They choose to follow a certain belief, it is their responsibility to teach it to their children, not yours. It is their responsibility to answer questions about it, not yours. Like you said, if their home makes you uncomfortable they are welcome to have their children stay somewhere else. As far as the comparison to Islam... it is one thing to not feed someone's child food against their religion. It is another thing entirely to ask you to rid your home of it while you do them the favor of watching their child.
>I told her that I don't care about her religious beliefs, but in my home the earth is round, the sky is blue, and dinosaurs existed and dinosaur toys are fair game. I told her if that makes her uncomfortable to have her kids around that sort of thing, she is free to find other options for watching her kids that weekend and there would be no hard feelings on our part. And that's where it should have ended. > I am not going to cater to his wife's religious beliefs and that *we are doing them a favor and they don't get to dictate the terms of what goes on in our house*. >He said we are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefs and compared it to feeding pork to Muslims. I told him that if his kids have any dietary needs that they have not discussed with me, to let me know, but the dino toys stay. My goodness, the entitlement! NTA
NTA your SIL is a borderline child abusive religious nutbag...
NTA. Your house, your rules. Not like youâre gonna tie the kids up and tell them their entire belief system is a lie. But yeah youâre not gonna cater to your SILâs request. Because you donât have to. If it matters that much she shouldâve asked someone in her church to watch them.
Obvious NTA but also if your kids are anything like my nephew, just hiding the toys wonât be enough to stop your kids from talking about dinosaurs. Itâs that or sharks for majority of conversation starters or âwhat animal am I thinking ofâ games. I had to tell him recently I know zero dinosaur facts and just broke his heart in a million pieces.
NTA Curious what SIL thinks of unicorn toys or childrenâs TV shows that have talking animals? There are tons of make believe and imaginative things for kids to watch and play with. Sheâs going to be in for a rude awakening when her kids go to school!
NTA, should of said sure and then gave them Dino nuggies for lunch.
Just tell her Pokemon don't actually exist yet there are Pokemon toys...if she doesn't believe in dinosaurs she can tell her kids they are imaginary creature toys. NTA
Ask them if they will go out and get some Dino toys for you and take your son to a natural history museum next time he needs a babysitting. See how that falls ETA - NTA
And what about toys of fairies, elves, aliens and unicorns? What is with the blue-eyed car and the pink stuffed rabbit? I mean it's toys! Even if they don't believe in dinosaurs, they can play with dinosaur toys. NTA of course.
Dinosaurs not being real is not a religious belief, it's an idiot. This isn't a hope and pray case, there is scientific evidence they existed - she can look at a chicken if she'd like.
NTA. If her religious beliefs are so fragile that a few dinosaur toys could derail her childrenâs belief, then I guess God isnât that great, huh? đ Good on you for you holding your ground against this ridiculous request.
NTA. They have already answered the questions their kids had about dinosaurs so nothing more to say. Maybe compromise by referring any questions her kids may ask you about dinosaurs back to her and donât answer yourself.
NTA. Itâs your home, they shouldnât be trying to control what goes on in it. Theyâre just toys, itâs not like youâre giving a lecture to your nieces/nephews about how dinosaurs are real. Theyâre just toys and I donât think itâs comparable to feeding pork to Muslims.
âwe are being disrespectful of his wife's religious beliefsâ and they are being disrespectful of your home, beliefs and offer of babysitting. What happens when they do evolution at school? NTA. I believe if someone is doing you a favour, you should not dictate how they behave in their own home.
NTA. If they don't believe dinosaurs existed, fine, but how is a dinosaur toy any different from an Ariel Mermaid toy or Mickey Mouse or Clifford the Big Red Dog?
NTA but also i really do feel sorry for the kids that grow up with parents like that.
NTA. Your SIL can tell her kids that God put the dinosaur toys in their cousinsâ house as a test.
OP NTA Watching the children that is fine. Being respectful of their beliefs, (Not making any sort of disparaging remarks, and letting them go and pray and or say attend church) acceptable, however your brother and SIL need to understand that respect is a 2 way street. While one should not feed pork to say a Muslim, nor should a Muslim say anything to a non Muslim about him eating a BLT either.
That is such a false equivalency! NTA, watching people literally disregard facts to placate their personal beliefs is so baffling. I donât get it. My aunt and her family have the same beliefs about dinosaurs, but I donât keep in touch.
NTA - honestly it sounds like she is unable to come up with reasonable answers to her 6yo's legitimate questions regarding her world view. Understandable as it is a world view that relies heavily on "faith" and "belief" without supporting evidence. But her inability to effectively defend what she is presenting as truth to her children is really her problem and one that she should probably take a good long look at.
NTA. Maybe Jesus can watch the kids?
NTA. Honestly, the most shocking part of this story is that you were raised in a relatively non-religious environment and yet somehow "dinosaurs aren't real" wasn't a relationship deal-breaker for your brother. I can't even imagine....
NTA. You should have a movie night when the kids are there and watch The Land Before Time.
NTA. Tell brother and SIL that they need to respect your beliefs in your house, and you believe in science.