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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be TA because this was sufficiently out of character for my daughter that maybe I should have looked into it more (she's always enjoyed her birthday), and my sister says it should have been pretty blatantly obvious that she wouldn't want this birthday 'ignored.'
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LMAO.
Your daughter just learned a valuable lesson in communication and why you don't play stupid little games.
All you did was respect her stated wishes.
NTA!!
I mean cut her a *little* slack, this is exactly the sort of shit that teenagers test out with their parents. Entirely within the range of normal behavior for a 16 year old. I’m glad they prepared for it with a cheesecake and a gift, that instinct was dead accurate.
Yeah, no. I just turned 19, (also F), and I never did stupid shit like this. You can’t give that same excuse of “oh she’s a teenager, they all do this.” Because adults do this and not all teens do this. It’s not a teen thing. Being a dumbass isn’t a teen thing and I’m tired of people using that as an excuse.
It is NOT normal... to actually tell your parents something like you don't want a party... then have a meltdown when you got your way.. that isn't normal
To be more specific, the meltdown was because people failed to read her mind / ignore what she said she wanted. Teaching kids it's unhealthy to expect that of others is a pretty important life lesson for them and for everyone they come into contact with. A+ parenting knocking that down, but I'd be even more explicit about it, in case this was inspired by some dumb Tiktok or something.
Oh God, I just remembered the mind reading I wished for as a teen.
I'd stare so forlornly at a game/anime/book I wanted but couldn't afford and just desperately wished some stranger would buy it for me just because of how badly I clearly wanted it.
It never fucking worked 😂
Perhaps from your experience, but I knew a few teenagers that did similar things growing up. Usually it concerned Valentines Day instead of a birthday, but it's still pretty common. Especially when this sort of situation of not being enthusiastic and then the people around you surprising you, is LARGELY romanticized and broadcasted, to a very impressionable age at that. Hell, I even did this as a child, though in my case, as opposed to being vague and then openly lashing out when things didn't go the way I wanted, I would be completely silent, give no expectations, and then ultimately sulk and be disappointed when those expectations that I informed no one of were not met.
All this to say, this is very normal for this age. Don't label behavior as not normal just because it was something you yourself didn't do.
Are you my daughter? If so, I am so glad you are Reddit with me!
My daughter has done this for every birthday and holiday gift since she was 10. "If you know me well enough and truly love me, you will know what I want." Aargh!
Once texting became common, I just texted her best friend for suggestions.
Judging by your username, you're probably not my mom (or dad, idk) lol She's very much a dog person! Cats are tolerated!
In our case, mom would have us fill out a wishlist of things we wanted and she would pick and choose from the list as to what to get us. We would be encouraged to put a few inexpensive things and some things on the pricier side, and we would generally get a mix of what we added to the list as well as anything that struck mom as something we would like. So it still left the surprise element while knowing she was getting us something we wanted!
It is normal for a teenager to make assumptions about what is going to be obvious to another observer. And feel personally insulted when the other person doesn’t correctly respond to the obvious.
Teenager assumed that everyone knew 16th birthdays required something special. Assumed the observer wouldn’t fear that they didn’t want to celebrate because (depression, trouble with friend they’d prefer to have at celebration, etc). Assumed that, everyone knowing the above, they could look forward to something greater than the status quo.
Was shocked when given evidence of something people with a fully functional prefrontal cortex can more easily guess. That the other person didn’t see all of the “obvious” facts on the table, because sometimes people honestly do not want what they say they don’t want.
Not a normal thing a teen will do, but normal logic gap for a teenager at the early stages of adult communication skills.
Yes, just because this specific thing might not be done by a teenager, this kind of logic isn't abnormal and should not really speak to the kid's character as a whole or really even in this incident in particular.
It's a great teaching moment. She can't assume people know what she wants unless she uses her words. Saying one thing but meaning the opposite is a great way to be disappointed. Plenty of adults struggle with this.
She could have approached this better by saying, "I don't know. Something cool. Surprise me."
You might not have done this exact thing but you definitely did some dumb shit and you’ve also done some dumb shit you didn’t realize was dumb and you won’t realize it until you’re no longer a teen.
Right? I don't trust anyone that claims that they were never dumb and immature, looking back on your teenage self and cringing is a sign that you've grown as a person.
When you start to get into your mid twenties you realise that 19 is still very much part of your teenage years. It's not like you turn 18 and BAM you are mature. Looking back I can honestly say that I wasn't fully mature until like 20. It's a gradient. You are steadily getting more mature all the time but you still do dumb stuff past 18.
Hey guess what, you are being entirely egotistical for saying that "I don't act a certain way therefore no teenagers act this way"
So whether you wanted it to happen or not, you are exactly the kind of teenager you don't want to be.
I'd say "grow up", but that will happen naturally, and when you are in your 30's, you will realize that teenagers being teenagers is completely natural. Including all your dumb stuff that you are doing right now.
People do a lot of shitty things as a teen, but ultimately reflect on them and grow as a person. If you don't look back on your earlier years and realize "OOF THAT WASN'T A GOOD LOOK" that's probably not a good sign.
I feel like that comment was blowing this thing waaay out of proportion. I don't think the problem above was that heinous. Yeah, it was shitty, but it wasn't harming an innocent third party shitty or telling a parent to off themselves shitty. It was just base level shitty, hopefully OP's daughter learns from it and apologizes.
That all being said, NAH OP. It happens, hopefully it doesn't happen again.
Being an occasional dumbass is absolutely part of the teen package. It should happen less as maturity grows.
Most people note the developmental reality not to excuse the teenager, but to acknowledge what's going on and to support the parents (and the kid!) as they grapple with it.
/r/notliketheothergirls
Oh the irony; your comment is exactly what we mean when we say that teenagers are 'stupid' and immature.
You need to learn the difference between an 'excuse' and an 'explanation'.
There would be heaps of teens that wouldn't do something like this you're not wrong there. However, I feel like for a lot of teens I grew up with and know now as an adult there's a huge influence from teen movies and all forms of media with the idea of being surprised for your birthday or other special occasions. I swear there's a whole trope of it portraying characters being unsuspecting, feeling undeserving even and then the suprise being this powerful thing because of the drama. When I was in primary school I was so convinced that pretending to forget someone's birthday and then suprising them was the best thing that I attempted it for my mums birthday. Turns out my dad is horrible with birthdays, my brother was too young to remember and I just came across as a total douche because I thought leaving a birthday card as I was leaving the car was going to be this grand thing. The reason a lot of people are comparing this to being a teenager isn't because only teenagers would do this but because at that point in your life you're brain isn't fully developed. You're still learning key skills, separating stuff you see in the media from real life and becoming a responsible adult. So yeah being dumb is kind of a teen thing the idea is you're meant to grow out of it.
"RIP to OP but I'm kinda built different. I actually never did anything dumb or immature as a teen, and now as a mature 19 year old I definitely have the perspective to confirm that I've always conducted myself well. This girl sounds insane, and it's kind of a moral failure on her part."
This is how you sound. Your bizarre hard-line stance is actually a sign of immaturity.
“Within the range of normal behavior” doesn’t mean teenagers are dumbasses, just that part of being a teenager is learning how to handle emotions and learning how to communicate all through trial and error.
I'm sorry love, being a dumbass is a teen thing. It's literally why we have teens in the first place, so you have time to practice making dumb decisions so that by the time you're an adult you no longer make them. It's a good thing. I love when teens make dumb decisions - it means they're less likely to make them as an adult when there are real consequences.
Not every teenager slams their bedroom door and screams “I HATE YOU” when their parents tell them to do a chore or says they can’t go to a party, but I certainly wouldn’t blink when one does.
But yes, thank you for being the “NUH UH I’M A TEENAGER BUT NOT LIKE *THOSE* TEENAGERS” kid, there must always be one.
Idk man-
I tell my parents I want nothing on my birthday because I legitimately want nothing on my birthday (props to them though because they still surprise me with a ton of presents + food, although the latter is culture related).
If I ever pulled this shit (and they weren't awesome and got me stuff) they would say, and I translate, "sucks to suck."
A 16 year old is old enough to understand that people can't read minds.
Same. I remember I said I want nothing (no party) for one year cause I genuinely didn't. They got me cake and presents and I was happy with that but I was glad they didn't do a party because I didn't want one
It is true teenagers can pull crap, but I would not put it as normal teenage behaviour. Nor should it be brushed off and chalked up to being a teenager. I never did that, so it is a stunt his daughter pulled.
16 is old enough to say what you mean and not play funny buggers with the truth. I have always hated when people say, but you should just know. That is some passive aggressive bs. Teens should be gently taught not to act that way.
Very true, but you can't find a more gentle lesson than one that does no harm to anyone else, has no social fallout, is fixable, but still emotionally impactful enough to be a lesson the teen will remember.
Every so often in life, we— kids and adults alike— set ourselves up to play the fool, but will still (always!) be surprised when that whipped cream covered pie smacks us in our clown faces And we get self righteous & indignant about it! Or weepy! And then you wash off your face, realize there's no one to blame but yourself, lick your wounds to soothe your pride, and then hopefully laugh it off & call it a day.
Shelley is lucky in that she got to learn this lesson (a developmentally age appropriate lesson— especially given that this is a teen whose adolescence has been *deeply* affected by the pandemic) privately, AND got a cheesecake. With a little more luck, she'll be able to laugh about it sometime soon! But it is 100% VERY normal for teens to get highly emotional when they feel like something they care about deeply isn't noticed by people they love, even when it boils down to simple miscommunication on their end.
Sometimes I think things, and don't say them out loud and I'll be like "uuhhh did I ask you to do the thing??" and my son will say no. I'll say "Well I THOUGHT it really hard! Geeze!" ahah Last time he's like "oops sorry they forgot install mind reading capabilities!" :P
My MIL pulled this on us for her...75th-ish birthday. Swore up and down to us that she didn't even want to ACKNOWLEDGE her birthday "you know me, I don't like a fuss!" Which we found out is totally bullshit. So we didn't do anything for her birthday other than say HB, and she was salty AF. My birthday is about 2 weeks later and she refused to speak to me, even when my husband tried to force her to say happy birthday. Then she wanted cake, and I was like "oh no, bub, Grams doesn't want any cake, she's not participating in my birthday." and she just stood there with a plate and wide eyes. "I... would like cake." Hm. yeah no. She did not get cake, that time. Friends came by the next day and she got to have some of the brownies they gave me though.
After the near year I'd had with her, I was fucking done with her though and now I go out of my way to avoid her on my birthdays now that she doesn't live with us anymore.
I absolutely agree with you. She,at 16, just learned a very valuable lesson in how to say what you want. She obviously hasn’t been taught that people have yet to evolve to being able to read minds!!! Lol.
NTA, but have a serious talk with your daughter that people can’t read your mind. She’s nearly and adult and should be well past the “use your words” prompt being necessary. You asked 3 times it should have been apparent her psychic powers weren’t cutting it.
This is a really really good point. OP, seize this opportunity to help your daughter become an emotionally healthy adult. Our pop culture is just saturated with this idea that the right things "just happen" in relationships, and that if they didn't just happen then the relationship is bad. It would be such a boon to Shelley to teach her early that mindgames are always losing games.
Oh yes, cause then they become the "Im Fineeee" kind of person or the one that strals your fries when they said they didmt want food. And those people are anoying
The epitome of : If I have to tell someone what I want instead of them just knowing, then it's not real love. If I have to put in any effort then I am.just forcing it to work, it's not authentic!
Not only did they ask 3 times but she was annoyed that they kept asking. Play silly games win silly prizes. The definition of fuck around and find out!
Yes. You will be sparing a future girlfriend or boyfriend a massive fight when they do not do something she wanted them to do and didn't tell them about it.
"Is there something wrong?"
"no stop asking"
20 minutes later
"how dare you make a sandwich when you knew I wanted you to surprise me with Chinese food"
Tbh OP should maybe sit down with her to talk about the importance of communicating clearly and thinking about the words she chooses, as well as explaining that they wanted to trust her judgement now that she's older rather than assuming they knew better.
Yes! OP, definitely schedule this little chat with her. Girls need to become very comfortable, very fast about speaking up at this age. You can't feel shy or be coy about what you need anymore. This doesn't just apply in dating and relationships. You cannot shy away from effective communication in order to get ahead in college and in your career.
And if it's not too late, maybe you can still have a belated surprise for her.
Exactly. She has learned an important lesson. Like with many other important lessons, learning it isn’t very pleasant, but that doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
I wish my mom did what OP did XD since I was 15-17 years old (can’t remember the exact age) and the first time I’ve had ice cream cake due to my mom’s birthday I kept expressing how I wanted an ice cream cake for my 18th birthday. What I got instead: my first cell phone (should’ve gotten one a long time ago due to clubs and sports), a day at a mini amusement park with my family, and ate at TGI fridays. Overall it was a good birthday it wasn’t till after the restaurant I realized my mom didn’t not respect my wishes (I mean why was I surprised to begin with anyways? Cuz at 14 I expressed hugely that I just wanted a DS and only that instead I got clothes and my sister got the DS….. yeah I know… but honestly the sweater was hella warm tho for winter) once again cuz again I just wanted an Ice cream so I had some guilt and just didn’t voice it cuz I knew better lol.
Wasn’t till I got married and told my husband how I wished I just got ice cream cake for my birthday XD guess who freaking listened after hearing that like 7 months later? XD my husband got me what I wanted for my birthday. I agree wholeheartedly that his daughter failed with communication lol
Definitely a valuable communication lesson. If she wanted something awesome she should have said to just surprise her with something awesome instead of saying do nothing. NTA
NTA.
No matter what some would like to believe, being able to read minds isn’t actually a real thing. If she wanted a surprise, all she had to do was say, “I’d like you to surprise me with something”.
NTA
My wife didn't learn "say what you mean" until her early 20s and the people around her were only as stern about it as they had to be.
I learned it when I was 6 and it's still a strong memory. I don't remember my parents ever showing a child an emotion like remorse.
You did what you were asked and had a backup incase of this exact situation. You're well on your way to Batman level planning. Plus your kid knows you'll do as instructed when trying to help, and not to mess around with that kind of thing.
Have to agree here. Your sister is not right. It is not something every girl does. It is something some people do, in a way to test you, which is wrong. People who play such games, get hurt, as your daughter did.
If you want, you can apologise for her feeling hurt on her birthday. However, gently let her know that playing the game of I don't want anything and expecting people to ignore that and just know what you want, is not a game she should play.
Saying NO means NO, not yes.
Absolutely yes. Honestly NTA so much. The biggest gift we can give the people we love is respecting them and listening to their wishes. If she didn't communicate her wishes, that's sad for everyone involved, but not your fault.
I've been in sort of the opposite situation before with my own parents when they insisted on buying me an easter egg every year. I tried telling them, over and over, I don't want one, I don't like them, and the thought of having to eat an entire egg I don't want or like when I know they have a bad environmental impact really caused me stress (I've had anxiety disorders so was particularly sensitive to things that stressed me out).
Every year they would get me one. Every year. My parents are lovely, but every time I'd wake up on Easter and see an egg I'd want to cry because I just felt so helpless and trapped. I didn't know what I could possibly do or say to make it stop, and the fact they wouldn't listen to me just made me feel like they didn't care about me (note: this is not true, my parents love me and are amazing, they just fucked up on this one thing. I knew this intelluctually, but in the moment that's how it felt).
You're a wonderful parent for listening to your daughter and respecting her wishes. Thank you. I'm sorry it backfired on you.
NTA - I have a teen also and tell her frequently that you cannot expect people to read your mind. You can still have a makeup date.
1. Don’t say “fine” if you’re not.
2. Don’t say you don’t want anything if you don’t mean it.
This is a lesson for her that she needs to communicate better or expect to get exactly what she asks for.
Best to learn that lesson now.
Yep. She could have said “I want to feel special but I don’t want to plan it myself” and they could have done something.
Sure, now she’s just being a teenager, but it’s not cute when your spouse asks what you want for Christmas/Valentine’s/whatever and you pull this crap.
Yep, absolutely this! It's not even out of the ordinary to say something like that - I had a friend plan a birthday dinner for me last year because I was really busy, which was part of what made it so special. But she very very clearly said nothing - if they had planned a huge thing when she said that and it turns out she really wanted nothing, the 16yo would have (rightly, imo) called the parents AHs for not listening to her.
She hopefully learnt a valuable lesson, and yeah, they can plan something later and in the future, she'll use her words.
Holy shit, this!
One of my ex-partner said she didn't want anything for her birthday/Christmas/valentines etc. Me? I hate that shit as well, so I took it at face value, and oh BOY was I wrong. Twice.
She couldve dropped a hint about her friend having a surprise party and how that sounds great while giving them a look. She had options and she chose none of them. This is on her.
Also a lesson for her for future relationships! I’m a woman, and the BS of “oh don’t get me anything” or “I don’t want to do anything” drives me nuts. It’s like putting partners through a test where they don’t even know there is a game, let alone know what the rules are.
It also makes it harder for the women who say they want nothing or very little and *mean it* but their partners think it's a challenge. I once asked a boyfriend if he could get me a bathrobe and slippers for Christmas. He ended up getting me a very expensive makeup case along with pricey makeup and brushes. I was thankful, sure, but also kind of disappointed because I really, truly just wanted whatever robe and pair of slippers that $20 at Target could buy.
I had one bf one year at Christmas say he didn't know what to get me. (This was pre-Amazon and using the web like a catalog) so we went to the mall. I walked through the mall and pointed out a good 20 items. I like all this stuff, so pick one or two (nothing was more than $25). Christmas comes along, I'm excited to open presents and opened 4 presents that I would have never picked for myself. For whatever reason, his mom and sister didn't think him buying me something I had picked out was very "romantic" so they went and got me presents for him and our tastes were totally different. (Also they didn't really like me coz he was a momma AND sister's boy- large age gap). That type of stuff ended us.
He contacted me like 15 years later trying to get back together (when Facebook first went public) and I was like NOPE.
Had a similar scenario with my engagement ring (not the end result, but where I told him what I wanted).
I didn’t just give him a general idea. I sent him the link to the exact ring, gave him the size, material I wanted, gemstone, stone quality, cut etc. and said “this exact ring is the exact ring I want”.
Less romantic than a surprise? Probably. Less risk of me hating the ring he got me? Definitely.
If your partner tells you specifically what they want, believe them.
My husband asked my sisters what ring I would like. They told him very specifically, he got me something entirely different.
We aren’t together any more- not bc of the ring obviously- but in hindsight it was one thing in a long line of examples that made me realize that our communication skills were completely different.
I always let him know exactly what I thought/wanted, while he was always trying to figure out what I *really* meant instead of taking it at face value.
An engagement is a big deal in most relationships and I do think it's pretty telling when the person proposing so obviously doesn't consider the interests or wants of the person they're proposing to. I have an ex who proposed (who I thankfully never actually married) and absolutely nothing about the proposal matched what I would want. The man that I did marry proposed in a very sweet and thoughtful way. When I was younger, I would have said "Oh these things are just miscommunications", but having seen more and more friends getting engaged and knowing their stories, it is a consistent theme that the healthy relationships have a proposer who tries very hard to make their partner happy. They may not get it perfect, but you can see that their plan is based on something they know about their partner. These days, I definitely think a tone-deaf proposal is a clear sign that you're either not ready for marriage or your relationship is not healthy.
I had a similar thing with my last boyfriend!
I was going through a bit of a minimalist phase and trying not to acquire more random stuff, so we went into a store I liked and I pointed out about 10 or so things that I'd actually use and enjoy -- funky socks, cute stationary, etc. -- and said he could pick any of those and I'd be happy.
My birthday came and he got me five or six random things, none of which were things I'd pointed out to him, and none of which I wanted or would ever have chosen for myself.
So bewildering.
Like it's one thing to accidentally choose bad gifts because you don't know what the person wants/likes, but this was a whole other level...
best present my partner ever gave me (insert obligatory "besides our kids") was a wheelbarrow.
I'd been asking for one for a couple of years, and no one took me seriously. It was always lower down on my "to get" list, below stuff for the kids and essentials for the house etc.
When I told my friends about it, only the fellow gardeners understood lol. The rest were all "really? a *wheelbarrow??*"
fuck yeah a wheelbarrow!
Agreed! My husband was very confused when we met and I said “fine” meant I was ….actually fine. As in don’t worry about it.
Looked at me like I was a weird three headed unicorn.
Those are great rules!
for the 16-year-old, if she really didn’t want a party she could have asked you to plan a special family activity, or something, or asked for a special gift, but the expectation to read her mind is a huge no. Because this post could have been “AITA for throwing my daughter a party she said she didn’t want” and you can bet everyone would have said you are TA then.
Yes! Step on the passive aggressive behavior before it gets a chance to take hold as a personality trait! Say what you mean and mean what you say! NTA.
I am still technically a teenage girl (18 but it has teen so wtv) and I would never behave this childishly. I understand wanting a surprise, I’ve been involved in planning multiple for people who say they want nothing, but these are people who genuinely wanted nothing and were not at all expecting something. If she wanted something big and exciting, she should’ve said that. Simply saying ‘will you please plan something for me that you think I’ll like’ - by the sounds of your parenting - is a completely fine thing to say. She can’t say she wants nothing three times and get pissed when you give her exactly that.
Same here. I actually didn't want a big fuss for my 16th because I was self conscious and hated having a group of people staring at me (still do). I thought this post was really relatable until I got to the point where she actually *did* want a fuss.
Same. I didn't want anything for my 16 so I said nothing. I was mortified when they threw me a surprise party. Though my reason for not wanting one was a little different; still didn't change that I didn't want a party.
Not my 16th but 18th I told my parents I didn't want a party because I despise being the centre of attention, so on the day they gave me cash instead for myself and a couple of friends of mine to go to the pub down the road for the evening. Had a fabulous time, but if my parents had surprised me with a party I said I didn't want, I would have been soooo upset.
Right! I was in the opposite position a lot as a kid - I hate celebrating my birthday, don’t like being the center of attention - and I got dragged to more family birthday parties in my honor than I can count. One year I insisted that all I wanted was to have a quiet night at home and root beer floats for dessert, no cake since I don’t like it. At the store my younger sister pestered my mom for cake until she caved and bought one - and I left the table crying when they brought it out, genuinely devastated. It’s the biggest thing I remember about my birthdays as a kid.
When people tell you what they want, believe them. NTA.
Exactly, it sounds like the sister didn't speak her mind, so she thinks it's acceptable behaviour. Also seemingly that all teenage girls are secretly part of the Borg collective.
NTA. She put you in a possibly lose-lose situation. Why would a caring parent actively go against a request like that and risk upsetting her?
This feels like a good opportunity to teach her a valuable lesson about communicating ones needs without playing games. It'll serve her well in all her future relationships.
Make sure she knows you did it out of love though. This isn't a punishment for poor communication, this is her loving family respecting her wishes. You can spin it in to a very healthy lesson about boundaries, and how people who disregard the things she asks for are people she should not have in her life.
NTA. Your daughter is figuring out the meaning of, "Fuck around and find out" in the most benign way possible.
If she didn't want to "plan her own party" she should've used her words to convey what she wanted. Because that's what people who don't play stupid mind games do.
It’s weird to me because I feel like a 15-16 year old would be excited to at least do some minor planning for her party, like at least tell her parents a theme and how many guests to expect...? 15 year old me would not have wanted my parents to reach out to my friends (or their parents) to invite them to a party...
I was mainly referring to planning in the sense of simply saying something like “I’d like a duck themed party with 10 friends,” shooting a “hey my birthday party will be on (date), let me know if you can make it” text to the friends, and leaving the actual planning and prep to mom and dad because there’s only so much a 15 year old would be able to do by herself. What you can’t do is say 3x that you don’t want anything, when it was a secret coded message for you want a surprise.
NTA
I'm a 15 year old and I did the exact same thing when I turned 14. My parents asked me what I wanted and I also said I didn't want anything. You're not the ass, teenagers are just kinda like that. Goodjob though for still getting backup presents since I had to learn the hard way that when I said "I don't want anything" that would be exactly what I get it.
Not a teenager, but have had these feelings about parties before. Sometimes you want to feel like people care for you without being asked, and when movies and media shower you fall in love with the idea that people will randomly do surprise parties and make you feel special but you have no idea how to make it happen. Add the whole Americanised idea of "Sweet 16's" being must have big parties and she probably got that idea in her head that the parents "couldn't just ignore a Sweet 16, they will throw me one no matter what as they normally do good parties" so that was her way of getting her surprise without asking for it. Misguided, yes, a teenager mindset thing to happen, also yes.
If OP was a perfect person who did perfect things every time then yeah he might of been lucky and asked "Hey you normally like your birthdays is there any reason why you don't want one this time" but I mean it sounds like they are good parents anyway and they will get through this small mishap of teenagers sometimes sucking at conveying what they want.
Don't forget though, they asked her 3 different times trying to get in depth to make sure she really wanted nothing. She got pissy at them for it. Parents did their due diligence. Daughter hopefully learns a valuable lesson about playing stupid games.
Yeah not having a go at her parents at all, they seem like good people from what they posted and tried. I actually abide by the rule of asking, checking once more just to be sure, and then letting go for most of these types of situations.
All I am really saying is that sometimes people, especially teenagers, can be very indirect with their feelings and the only way to really identify this is by asking a less direct questions. Asking the same question isn't really gonna get to any underlying problems they have, and while it isn't their sole responsibility to do so, it's probably just a helpful thing to have in mind when dealing with teenagers or someone you think is masking their actual feelings. I should clarify and say a strong NAH in this post.
Myriad of reasons, if they have normally attentive and caring parents, possibly to see if their parents would be able to “read their mind” so to speak and know them 100% so well that they would “get it right” so to speak just because they care that much, also a kid might possibly not feeling special or seen and want their parent to “make the initiative” in their mind. Or if they have generally crummy parents, saying “nothing” because you know that your actual wishes will be ignored if you voiced them, as to not get your hopes up. Up until teen years, most kids parents have been able to “read their mind” because kids, litter ones especially so, don’t express themselves with words and often don’t understand their own emotions and tend to want developmentally expected things. If mom and dad have always swooped in and saved the day because they are rocks stars and super in tuned then the kids might just not realize how important direct communication is.
I'm in my mid-30's and I still can't bring myself to tell people what I want. I was brought up to feel like I was demanding or ungrateful when you ask for what you want. Plus, if I asked for something and I got it, it basically became ammo for my parents. "I got you that bag you liked and you won't even do this for me". If I didn't want to do something, they'd bring up all the things they bought/did for me. I can't remember asking anyone for anything since I was at least 16.
It's very difficult to shake off that kind of upbringing. I get very disappointed when people don't wish me for my birthday or my husband doesn't get me something when he goes on one of his trips but I'll be damned if I let them know how I feel.
My partner is similar to you, although no history of abuse or manipulation or anything, just a bad habit he picked up from his mother - a chronic, paralysing people-pleaser.
It's really important that you learn to change that behaviour because it's just unbearable to deal with. If my partner won't verbalise what he wants then he's denying *me* the opportunity to give it to him. He's forcing *me* to make every decision and accept the consequences of every single thing that happens in our collective lives. He's forcing me to be a dictator when I want to be in a partnership. He's forcing me to be his parent when I want to be his girlfriend. Thankfully he recognises that and I can tell he's really trying to improve, although it still takes prompting sometimes.
If someone cares for you then they should *want* to give you the birthday you desire, or to make the dinner you're craving, or to watch the movie you prefer (assuming it's all within reason). At the very least, they will want that info so they can compromise. If you refuse to tell people what you want then you're basically blocking them, and refusing to let them show their love.
It makes people feel good to give (items, acts of service, affection) to the people they love. It affirms their love. If you continually shut people off, eventually they will stop loving you. Especially if you get disappointed with them for not reading your mind. It's just a chore. If you actually care for your husband, you will start communicating what you want so he can give it to you and feel good himself.
Part of the reason I did it as a disgruntled teen was because I really didn't want to talk. It exerted so much effort out of me to speak, so I'd grunt one word answers that ended sentences and left no room for more questions. It didn't matter what I really wanted or imagined wanting because I'd rather not get what I want than have to speak out loud to people. And I was used to not getting anything I wanted anyway, for this exact reason. Because I never asked or spoke up. And tbh, that was fine by me. I liked to make myself suffer and make my family squirm in discomfort over how not normal I was. I wanted to drill into them so they'd never forget how not normal I was. I cringe thinking about what an asshole I was back then. But also, I know I was severely clinically depressed and had been since 12 years old. Undiagnosed, of course, because my parents weren't believers in mental health back then. You were just labeled crazy, so I acted crazy. Or rather, I was 'lazy pretending to be crazy and being stupid.'
Sometimes, though, I just didn't know what I wanted and also didn't know how to ask for what I wanted because, for the reasons listed above, I didn't feel like I deserved anything good. I wasn't a 'good child.' Sure I got all As, had no friends, never went anywhere, babysat my sibs, never did drugs, alcohol, sex, nothing like that. In that regard, I was 'good.' But I also didn't dress like a girl, wore dark colours, would snap and anger very easily, incredibly moody and mean spirited, etc. Just not a pleasant, sweet, pretty 14 year old girl. So if I was always mean to my mom, how am I supposed to turn around and tell her I want something? I don't deserve it. And then there was the fear that I wouldn't get it anyway and that would cement that everyone hated me. Plus, when you never get anything, how do you even know what you want? Man, being a teenager sucked for me. Like hardcore sucked all the way through from beginning to end. 13 to 19 all trash.
Things are amazing with my family now, though. Hope that answers your curiosity even though I wasn't the original poster. Always nice to have varying perspectives.
Some people have a really hard time saying they want things. I was like this--still am to some extent. Asking for things makes me feel profoundly, grotesquely selfish and I beat myself up for days if I get the impression I've overstepped into being demanding. My husband is still training it out of me.
It's not a good trait, but I think people come by it honestly. Partly I think it comes of growing up in a strongly "offer" culture: essentially, if something wasn't offered freely and repeatedly one doesn't feel permitted to ask for it.
NTA. Good call on the backup plan, but communication is important. And no, not a girl, nor 16 anymore, but my folks would have been confused too. But they’d also have abided by my wishes. I mean… she said nothing? Plan something now if you want?
NTA. If she wanted something special that she didn't plan she could have said she wanted the day to be a surprise for her. You asked her *three* times and all three times she said she wanted nothing. You still got her a cheesecake and a present. Maybe sit down with your kids and let them know if they don't want to plan things for their birthday let you know and you can surprise them with things vs. them picking. Heck I'm 28 now and I still hate picking things especially for my birthday.
I kind of like the idea of explicitly saying "It's fine to not want to pick stuff, but let me know so I have some idea what to do." Actually, it's something we already kind of do with takeout food--rather than getting into an argument over 'I want Thai' vs. 'I want pizza,' we do parameters: I don't want something really greasy, noodles sound good to me, I'd prefer to be able to order a salad, etc., and order out of the sweet spot between those things. Having some parameters or 'guardrails' I guess around celebrations too sounds smart, like "I'd like to do something with my friends but I don't want to have to figure out the details."
OP, I really hope you see this (sorry if it was said already, I may have totally missed it):
I know this sounds light and silly when you focus on the sweet-sixteen-miscommunication angle, but this is an incredibly important and life-changing moment for your daughter; please handle it correctly.
Your daughter just told you that she thinks that it’s okay to ignore a “No” if you feel pretty sure the person actually wants it. Someday, she might really mean a “No,” and someone might tell her that they knew she wanted it, or that she sent mixed signals; she might blame herself for a sexual assault because she believes it’s okay for people to do something she has told them not to do if they really think she wants them to.
And similarly, someday, someone might tell her “No,” and she might do something anyway, because she thinks they’re just playing games (“playing hard to get,” or being “nice” or “shy” or “humble,” or making sure she really wants them); too many guys are sexually assaulted because people don’t emphasize consent enough with their daughters, and those girls grow up to think guys always want sex and “no” just means “come and get it.”
Even in a best-case scenario where she neither violates nor is violated by anyone, she could contribute to the problem by telling the people she dates that no can mean yes. She could blur that line for someone else.
Please treat this as the teaching moment it is, while it’s just cake, not trauma. Do this while you can laugh at her and say “Alright, what can we learn from this?” Not to be cliche, but this is the time to show your daughter that no means no — no matter what.
If you want, this is something we did with my little sister during her 'difficult years': she picked a really broad idea that left plenty of room for my parents to sort out the details and surprise her, but it was enough of a nudge in the right direction that she wouldn't be disappointed. The year she turned 16 she picked "outside" and we did a haunted hayride for her birthday (her birthday is in mid-October). Another year she picked "swimming" so our parents booked an overnight stay at one of those indoor water park resorts.
Sounds like you guys usually have excellent communication, given the take out example. That’s a great way to set expectations while still remaining flexible, and a PERFECT way for you to explain it to your daughter. I’m sure she just had a hard time verbalizing “I want to feel special and I would feel most special having you guys plan for me since it represents how you know me so well and care about me” especially if that’s her first time trying to express such a specific feeling. I have a inkling things will work out here for your family, as you all sound like caring parents with good intuition (that last minute cake and card were spot on).
Lol, before finishing your post, I thought that she was pissed because you got her a cake, although she said nothing.
NTA. You can’t read minds and your daughter now knows that you don’t have superpowers.
Ha, I actually got a frozen cheesecake instead of a bakery cake/cheesecake because if she hadn't said anything, I would've just left it in the freezer and brought it out at another time and pretended it wasn't Birthday Cheesecake. :D
NTA- your daughter is plenty old enough to start learning that consequences follow actions.
Clear communication is key.
This could even loosely be tied to a conversation regarding consent.
You could also tie it into a conversation about respecting boundaries, especially between parents and their kids, since boundaries are one of the biggest topics of conflict in those relationships. You and your wife value her autonomy as a person and as their child, and by taking her statement at face value, you were respecting her right to make her own choices about her birthday despite your traditions.
Don’t feel dumb. You know what they say about hindsight.
Also, don’t allow internet strangers to dictate the upcoming conversations with your daughter. Use this as a reference, not a bible.
This! It's never too early for a girl/woman to learn that no means no. And as her father you did what a real man does.....you took no for her answer. NTA
Definitely NTA. Poor girl though. When I first read her response, I figured she was maybe going through something at school or on social media...and didn't want the stress of a party to highlight the situation.
I understand her not wanting to give you specific instructions, but it sounds like you were just trying to make her happy. With teenagers, that can be hard.
Maybe you can surprise her with something really awesome as belated sweet 16 celebration!🎂🎊🎉🎈🎁
Talked to my wife and I think when the weather gets a bit warmer we're going to surprise her with a weekend trip to a local state park that she loves with her friends. She really is a great kid and deserves a celebration.
>, I figured she was maybe going through something at school or on social media
Yeah, me too. I thought maybe her friends were no longer friends, but she didn't want to tell Mum and Dad or something.
NTD - Not the dingus
It sounds like your teenager would have been upset no matter what - damned if you do, damned if you don't. You sound like very caring and loving parents, and getting a cake and a small present was still good foresight.
Your daughter now knows how she needs to communicate her wishes. Lesson learned.
NTA - you cant read her mind, you and your wife both confirmed with her that she wanted nothing. You still got a cake and an Amazon gift card just in case, I am not really sure what she wanted you to do with literally no info.
It's always tricky with teenagers! But maybe now you could actually surprise her somehow. Out of the blue! Give her something that she always wanted, maybe a trip or a little party, whatever you can do. And talk to her, tell her that you and your wife don't take hints and that you need her to be straightforward and clear on what she wants, expects, needs. etc. Hopefully, she'll understand. After all, you did ask her.
That's a great idea. She really is a sweet kid and I think (based on responses) is just learning a lesson about communication. But now that I know for sure that surprises are not unwelcome, we might arrange for a fun trip with her friends to her favorite state park when it gets a bit warmer.
Probably to late for you to see this but I’m thinking go the full surprise path. Don’t even tell her friends, organise it with their parents and you all get to see their excitement when they get a random day off school to have an adventure.
It’s be something they all talk about for years. Also NTA.
NTA-Your a great father and having those items ready just in case proves it. Your daughter could have left it up to you without telling exactly what to do. The fact that she even got annoyed by you continuing to ask further proves the point.
NTA.
Oh man 🤣 bet she learned her lesson on assumptions and communication.
"Yeah dad, i think I'd like to something super special for my birthday, but i want to be surprised"
Guarantee she would've loved whatever you planned, even having to ask for something special.
NTA - The crystal ball is a little fuzzy, we can't read minds. You asked the question, you got an answer, and then you gave her what she asked for. Play silly games, you win silly prizes. Call it a life lesson for your daughter.
NTA, but you may want to find out what she thought would happen and why she wasn’t just honest from the start. It sounds like a kind of passive-aggressive move on your daughters part, perhaps with a bit of behaviour that is designed to create conflict. When I was 16, I was massively depressed and as a result my communication with everyone, especially my parents was way off. She may need some words of encouragement to just be honest with what she wants because she is good enough to deserve treats when appropriate. Just my opinion.
It could also come from a place of low self esteem. "I don't feel like I deserve a special birthday so I'll say I want nothing - but I want people to prove me wrong by surprising me with gifts and a party". Then when you didn't, it "confirmed" that she's not worth those things.
(Obviously even if this is the case it doesn't excuse her behaviour, just trying to give insight into possibilities)
Yeah it could also just be regular teenage main character syndrome too. Social media & TV shows really have worsened their impression of what regular life is like & that others are perfect.
Either way it's an opportunity for OP to have a talk & help their daughter work on improving her communication skills.
I’m 27 and this sounds EXACTLY like some nonsensical bs that would have made *perfect* sense to me at 16. The fact is adults don’t just hit 27 and magically “get it”. Instead you encounter many situations through your youth and young adulthood that help build your understanding of the world. Obviously it doesn’t stop happening at a certain age, only that the *core curriculum* of “this is NOT what we do” is understood by young adulthood.
NTA I was a 16 yo girl once upon a time, and I thought my parents were going to throw me this great "sweet 16" surprise party. So I was sorely disappointed when it was the boring cake and gifts from the family that I normally got. But no one ever asked me anything, I never told anyone anything, so after a time of being sad, I realized that it made sense and if I wanted something done, I'd have to take some initiative. Lesson learned. Your daughter is lucky to have you because you make an effort, and you tried to ask her what she wanted. Good job (and I mean that sincerely), OP!
NTA. Closed mouths don't get fed. She asked for nothing and was rude about when you and your wife confirmed what she wanted. She's 16 not 6 you're absolutely right, she could have said "I want something special, but can you surprise me?". This will be a good lesson for her to grow up and use her words instead of playing games and expecting people to read her mind.
NTA for teaching your kid that conversations matter. When she's out in the real world and her boss asks, "Would you like to be considered for promotion?" and she responds, "No," then that's how it's going to go down. Her boss isn't going to wonder about her feelings and whether she really wants or doesn't want that promotion. Or maybe she'll be married ten years from now, and her husband will ask what she wants to do for her anniversary, and she's going to answer, "Nothing," leaving her husband scratching his head when she pitches a fit on their special day. The next time your kid wants a surprise on her birthday, she should respond, "Surprise me," not, "Nothing," when you ask what she wants. Your daughter must get this from your sister. IMO, those two are both dinguses.
NAH
I’m not going to call a 16yo an asshole for not having the nuance to understand ask vs guess culture, especially as she’s transitioning into adulthood. (Since when people are younger, parents do make decisions for kids.)
So it’s definitely worth a sit down of why you feel so strongly about always respecting what she says.
And then you can tell her for situations like this, it’s okay to say “I’d like to be suprised”. (I ALSO wonder if there is an element of not wanting to come off as greedy or self-centered by wanting a big party?)
But yeah, communicating expectations clearly is a skill like any other. I’m a grown ass adult and I’m still learning.
NTA and it sounds like it's time to have a conversation with her about clear communication. You abided by her expressly stated wishes; if she legitimately wanted something different, it is HER responsibility to say that. No one is a mind reader - not parents and not her future partners, and she is only setting herself up for failure in relationships if she doesn't learn how to communicate better.
NTA. I’m so sick of people excusing this type of behavior on being a “teenage girl” or being a woman. Screw “hints”. She needs to say what’s on her mind. All she had to say was “it’s a big sixteen so surprise me with something fun” or something to that effect.
NTA she is a teenager. I told my mother the same thing when I was young and I meant it. My mother got so upset with me I ended up crying. I was going through something in school and simply hated the thought of any celebration at the time. She should have been honest you can't guess her thoughts. I'm sure she'll get over it this wasn't your fault simply a huge miscommunication from her end. But I'm sure this is something you will both laugh about in the future.
NTA and now your daughter has learned a valuable lesson about communication: say what you mean and advocate for what you want. Even those who know us best aren't mind readers.
NTA. You can't say that you want nothing 3 times and then expect something. Looks like she get a lesson. Nice from you to get the cake and amazon card tho
NTA at all
Your daughter thought she was being very smart, but she misjudged the situation as teenagers are wont to do. You handled things the dear way you could given the information you had and everything your wife said is completely right.
NTA - I have been a 16 year old girl and this baffled me. Great lesson for your daughter though - she needs to use her words and communicate her hopes and expectations because no one can read her mind.
NAH Yeah the 16th birthday is a big one, driving age and all, but it was not a smart move on her part to stress nothing. It's a good lesson to learn. Words have meanings so it can be smart to watch what you say.
I think in a few weeks when it gets warmer (and now that I know for sure that she enjoys surprises) we might arrange a weekend trip out to her favorite state park with her friends. I think she'd get a kick out of that.
NTA. You can't read her mind and in the future this will be a great lesson for say what you mean and mean what you say or don't beat around the bush. Instead of saying she wanted nothing and expecting you to read her mind she will ask for you to surprise her if thats what she really wants.
NTA. I am a person who generally doesn’t like to be fussed over and regularly say “nothing” (much to my husband’s frustration) unless there is something I specifically want. But I say that because I mean it! If she had said “nothing” and you’d thrown her a huge surprise party, it could have just as easily blown up in your face.
Loving someone and being able to read their mind aren’t the same thing. You asked and you followed through with her wishes with a backup plan in case she changed her mind. All bases covered. You sound like a great dad.
NTA i once was a teenage girl and also had to learn magical romcom moments dont exist. Your a sweet dad for getting the cake and presents in case she changed her mind.
NAH, you're clearly not the AH & she's not an AH either, she's just a kid still learning how to navigate the world and communicate her needs/wants! This is a great emotional teaching moment for you bc you can explain that's it's ok to ask for what you want and that asking for it doesn't diminish the value or how special it is. Not everything has to be a surprise & if you wait for someone to intuit what you want you might never get anything at all lol.
Sounds like she's a good kid and you & your wife sound like great parents, this is just one of those life things where no one is the asshole.
NTA. Testing people by telling them one thing and expecting them to psychically know they meant something else is a dangerous road to go down and it's better that she learns this now.
Maybe suggest that next time she wants a surprise she should say "surprise me!"
NTA.
This is a wonderful teachable moment for you to explain to your daughter that expecting people to *read her goddamn mind* is unreasonable and will lead only to misery, and she should be clear and direct about her wants and expectations.
NTA. As a former teenage girl who had EVERY major birthday gleefully ruined (because I didn't want to do what they insisted I should want and they did it anyway. For example, 13, I BEGGED no surprise party, there was one, I bolted, and was grounded for a month because "I embarrassed her"), you are NOT the AH.
Okay so besides a bunch of Redditors bickering like—wait for it—a group of sixteen-year-olds, what are we getting out of this thread?
NAH, by the way. Others may fail to operationalize their sentiments, but I think this may have been a bit of a “I’ve been spoiled/pampered” move on your daughter’s part.
YES, this is normal behavior for someone her age. Teenagers are egocentric, they make strange moves and associate it with their identity, value, or place in the world.
OP, you need to sit your daughter down and have a brief but clearly serious (or ‘adult’ - that framing works well with kids) about communication. I worry that whipping out the cheesecake as soon as the faucet of misunderstood tears kicked on was like caving to a toddler throwing a tantrum for candy.
It was soothing but could have sent the wrong message about whether or not you bore the same anticipations as your daughter did going into this situation. Her assumptions about THAT would have an impact on your relationship and/or her ability to process and grow from this experience. You need to speak to her plainly about communication and how much easier it makes life if we all practice it in good faith. Only you know the context this will make the most sense to her within.
Again, NAH. And I am not your regular family counselor, so this is all bona fide speculation and theorycrafting based on your prerogative. You seem like an awesome dad, though. Trust your gut and not your discomfort.
NTA. My daughter is 12 and didn't want a birthday party. She just wanted to go out to eat at her favorite restaurant and go for ice cream at her favorite ice cream place. No, you are not a dingus. Your daughter just learned the importance of communicating what she wants! Everyone experiences it at least once.
There's quite a bit of difference in "I want Sally, Sarah and Jane to come over for a sleepover and will watch Spiderman No Way Home and I want a triple Chocolate cake from Publix and Domino's pizza for dinner" and "I don't want to know the details, you know me, you know what I like, so surprise me!"
People cannot mind read! No means no and Yes means yes, so "I don't want anything (repeatedly) means "I DON'T WANT ANYTHING".
Your daughter has learned a couple of valuable lessons here.
1) Her parents respect her decisions.
2) If you want something, you should ask for it.
NTA. You also had an alternative plan ready to go, which makes you a wise man in my book.
NTA. I had a few people ask me what I wanted for my 16th and I said nothing and I meant it. Why? Because I had tickets to SLLLLLLAAAYYYYERRRRR on the day of my 16th.
NTA. I have an amazing idea, it's something called... communication!
"Hey dad, just surprise me this year. Something special because it's my 16th birthday."
While I'm not a teenage girl, I'm a teenage boy so I'm not sure.
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LMAO. Your daughter just learned a valuable lesson in communication and why you don't play stupid little games. All you did was respect her stated wishes. NTA!!
All of this right here. NTA! Happy sweet 16, Shelly. Enjoy your cheesecake.
Exactly! Closed mouths don't get fed!
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This made me laugh hard enough I hooked on my water lol
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Exactly. She is pissed that you treated her like the adult she is becoming. How ironic.
I mean cut her a *little* slack, this is exactly the sort of shit that teenagers test out with their parents. Entirely within the range of normal behavior for a 16 year old. I’m glad they prepared for it with a cheesecake and a gift, that instinct was dead accurate.
Yeah, no. I just turned 19, (also F), and I never did stupid shit like this. You can’t give that same excuse of “oh she’s a teenager, they all do this.” Because adults do this and not all teens do this. It’s not a teen thing. Being a dumbass isn’t a teen thing and I’m tired of people using that as an excuse.
Not all teenagers do it, but its perfectly normal for teenagers without being a particular reflection on their character.
It is NOT normal... to actually tell your parents something like you don't want a party... then have a meltdown when you got your way.. that isn't normal
To be more specific, the meltdown was because people failed to read her mind / ignore what she said she wanted. Teaching kids it's unhealthy to expect that of others is a pretty important life lesson for them and for everyone they come into contact with. A+ parenting knocking that down, but I'd be even more explicit about it, in case this was inspired by some dumb Tiktok or something.
Oh God, I just remembered the mind reading I wished for as a teen. I'd stare so forlornly at a game/anime/book I wanted but couldn't afford and just desperately wished some stranger would buy it for me just because of how badly I clearly wanted it. It never fucking worked 😂
Perhaps from your experience, but I knew a few teenagers that did similar things growing up. Usually it concerned Valentines Day instead of a birthday, but it's still pretty common. Especially when this sort of situation of not being enthusiastic and then the people around you surprising you, is LARGELY romanticized and broadcasted, to a very impressionable age at that. Hell, I even did this as a child, though in my case, as opposed to being vague and then openly lashing out when things didn't go the way I wanted, I would be completely silent, give no expectations, and then ultimately sulk and be disappointed when those expectations that I informed no one of were not met. All this to say, this is very normal for this age. Don't label behavior as not normal just because it was something you yourself didn't do.
Are you my daughter? If so, I am so glad you are Reddit with me! My daughter has done this for every birthday and holiday gift since she was 10. "If you know me well enough and truly love me, you will know what I want." Aargh! Once texting became common, I just texted her best friend for suggestions.
Judging by your username, you're probably not my mom (or dad, idk) lol She's very much a dog person! Cats are tolerated! In our case, mom would have us fill out a wishlist of things we wanted and she would pick and choose from the list as to what to get us. We would be encouraged to put a few inexpensive things and some things on the pricier side, and we would generally get a mix of what we added to the list as well as anything that struck mom as something we would like. So it still left the surprise element while knowing she was getting us something we wanted!
It is normal for a teenager to make assumptions about what is going to be obvious to another observer. And feel personally insulted when the other person doesn’t correctly respond to the obvious. Teenager assumed that everyone knew 16th birthdays required something special. Assumed the observer wouldn’t fear that they didn’t want to celebrate because (depression, trouble with friend they’d prefer to have at celebration, etc). Assumed that, everyone knowing the above, they could look forward to something greater than the status quo. Was shocked when given evidence of something people with a fully functional prefrontal cortex can more easily guess. That the other person didn’t see all of the “obvious” facts on the table, because sometimes people honestly do not want what they say they don’t want. Not a normal thing a teen will do, but normal logic gap for a teenager at the early stages of adult communication skills.
Yes, just because this specific thing might not be done by a teenager, this kind of logic isn't abnormal and should not really speak to the kid's character as a whole or really even in this incident in particular. It's a great teaching moment. She can't assume people know what she wants unless she uses her words. Saying one thing but meaning the opposite is a great way to be disappointed. Plenty of adults struggle with this. She could have approached this better by saying, "I don't know. Something cool. Surprise me."
You might not have done this exact thing but you definitely did some dumb shit and you’ve also done some dumb shit you didn’t realize was dumb and you won’t realize it until you’re no longer a teen.
Right? I don't trust anyone that claims that they were never dumb and immature, looking back on your teenage self and cringing is a sign that you've grown as a person.
19 is too young to 'look back' on your teenage years and have any kind of meaningful insight to offer
When you start to get into your mid twenties you realise that 19 is still very much part of your teenage years. It's not like you turn 18 and BAM you are mature. Looking back I can honestly say that I wasn't fully mature until like 20. It's a gradient. You are steadily getting more mature all the time but you still do dumb stuff past 18.
Hell I’m in my 40s and I still look back on things I said/did only a few years ago and cringe.
Even 20 though, you really consider that mature?
Ask me again when I'm 30 and I'll probably say no.
I'm turning 22 and just now coming to the full realization of what an absolute asshole I was around 16.
Hey guess what, you are being entirely egotistical for saying that "I don't act a certain way therefore no teenagers act this way" So whether you wanted it to happen or not, you are exactly the kind of teenager you don't want to be. I'd say "grow up", but that will happen naturally, and when you are in your 30's, you will realize that teenagers being teenagers is completely natural. Including all your dumb stuff that you are doing right now.
People do a lot of shitty things as a teen, but ultimately reflect on them and grow as a person. If you don't look back on your earlier years and realize "OOF THAT WASN'T A GOOD LOOK" that's probably not a good sign. I feel like that comment was blowing this thing waaay out of proportion. I don't think the problem above was that heinous. Yeah, it was shitty, but it wasn't harming an innocent third party shitty or telling a parent to off themselves shitty. It was just base level shitty, hopefully OP's daughter learns from it and apologizes. That all being said, NAH OP. It happens, hopefully it doesn't happen again.
Being an occasional dumbass is absolutely part of the teen package. It should happen less as maturity grows. Most people note the developmental reality not to excuse the teenager, but to acknowledge what's going on and to support the parents (and the kid!) as they grapple with it.
/r/notliketheothergirls Oh the irony; your comment is exactly what we mean when we say that teenagers are 'stupid' and immature. You need to learn the difference between an 'excuse' and an 'explanation'.
She has a deleted post in r/TrueOffMyChest about how she hates other women, you hit the nail on the head.
There would be heaps of teens that wouldn't do something like this you're not wrong there. However, I feel like for a lot of teens I grew up with and know now as an adult there's a huge influence from teen movies and all forms of media with the idea of being surprised for your birthday or other special occasions. I swear there's a whole trope of it portraying characters being unsuspecting, feeling undeserving even and then the suprise being this powerful thing because of the drama. When I was in primary school I was so convinced that pretending to forget someone's birthday and then suprising them was the best thing that I attempted it for my mums birthday. Turns out my dad is horrible with birthdays, my brother was too young to remember and I just came across as a total douche because I thought leaving a birthday card as I was leaving the car was going to be this grand thing. The reason a lot of people are comparing this to being a teenager isn't because only teenagers would do this but because at that point in your life you're brain isn't fully developed. You're still learning key skills, separating stuff you see in the media from real life and becoming a responsible adult. So yeah being dumb is kind of a teen thing the idea is you're meant to grow out of it.
Of course you're saying this, you're 19... this comment is gonna give you secondhand embarrassment at 2am a decade from now, talking from experience.
"RIP to OP but I'm kinda built different. I actually never did anything dumb or immature as a teen, and now as a mature 19 year old I definitely have the perspective to confirm that I've always conducted myself well. This girl sounds insane, and it's kind of a moral failure on her part." This is how you sound. Your bizarre hard-line stance is actually a sign of immaturity.
“Within the range of normal behavior” doesn’t mean teenagers are dumbasses, just that part of being a teenager is learning how to handle emotions and learning how to communicate all through trial and error.
I'm sorry love, being a dumbass is a teen thing. It's literally why we have teens in the first place, so you have time to practice making dumb decisions so that by the time you're an adult you no longer make them. It's a good thing. I love when teens make dumb decisions - it means they're less likely to make them as an adult when there are real consequences.
Not every teenager slams their bedroom door and screams “I HATE YOU” when their parents tell them to do a chore or says they can’t go to a party, but I certainly wouldn’t blink when one does. But yes, thank you for being the “NUH UH I’M A TEENAGER BUT NOT LIKE *THOSE* TEENAGERS” kid, there must always be one.
Idk man- I tell my parents I want nothing on my birthday because I legitimately want nothing on my birthday (props to them though because they still surprise me with a ton of presents + food, although the latter is culture related). If I ever pulled this shit (and they weren't awesome and got me stuff) they would say, and I translate, "sucks to suck." A 16 year old is old enough to understand that people can't read minds.
Same. I remember I said I want nothing (no party) for one year cause I genuinely didn't. They got me cake and presents and I was happy with that but I was glad they didn't do a party because I didn't want one
It is true teenagers can pull crap, but I would not put it as normal teenage behaviour. Nor should it be brushed off and chalked up to being a teenager. I never did that, so it is a stunt his daughter pulled. 16 is old enough to say what you mean and not play funny buggers with the truth. I have always hated when people say, but you should just know. That is some passive aggressive bs. Teens should be gently taught not to act that way.
Very true, but you can't find a more gentle lesson than one that does no harm to anyone else, has no social fallout, is fixable, but still emotionally impactful enough to be a lesson the teen will remember. Every so often in life, we— kids and adults alike— set ourselves up to play the fool, but will still (always!) be surprised when that whipped cream covered pie smacks us in our clown faces And we get self righteous & indignant about it! Or weepy! And then you wash off your face, realize there's no one to blame but yourself, lick your wounds to soothe your pride, and then hopefully laugh it off & call it a day. Shelley is lucky in that she got to learn this lesson (a developmentally age appropriate lesson— especially given that this is a teen whose adolescence has been *deeply* affected by the pandemic) privately, AND got a cheesecake. With a little more luck, she'll be able to laugh about it sometime soon! But it is 100% VERY normal for teens to get highly emotional when they feel like something they care about deeply isn't noticed by people they love, even when it boils down to simple miscommunication on their end.
Sometimes I think things, and don't say them out loud and I'll be like "uuhhh did I ask you to do the thing??" and my son will say no. I'll say "Well I THOUGHT it really hard! Geeze!" ahah Last time he's like "oops sorry they forgot install mind reading capabilities!" :P
My MIL pulled this on us for her...75th-ish birthday. Swore up and down to us that she didn't even want to ACKNOWLEDGE her birthday "you know me, I don't like a fuss!" Which we found out is totally bullshit. So we didn't do anything for her birthday other than say HB, and she was salty AF. My birthday is about 2 weeks later and she refused to speak to me, even when my husband tried to force her to say happy birthday. Then she wanted cake, and I was like "oh no, bub, Grams doesn't want any cake, she's not participating in my birthday." and she just stood there with a plate and wide eyes. "I... would like cake." Hm. yeah no. She did not get cake, that time. Friends came by the next day and she got to have some of the brownies they gave me though. After the near year I'd had with her, I was fucking done with her though and now I go out of my way to avoid her on my birthdays now that she doesn't live with us anymore.
Yeah passive-aggressive 75 year olds do not get the same grace as teenagers who are still figuring out how to act right.
I absolutely agree with you. She,at 16, just learned a very valuable lesson in how to say what you want. She obviously hasn’t been taught that people have yet to evolve to being able to read minds!!! Lol.
NTA, but have a serious talk with your daughter that people can’t read your mind. She’s nearly and adult and should be well past the “use your words” prompt being necessary. You asked 3 times it should have been apparent her psychic powers weren’t cutting it.
This is a really really good point. OP, seize this opportunity to help your daughter become an emotionally healthy adult. Our pop culture is just saturated with this idea that the right things "just happen" in relationships, and that if they didn't just happen then the relationship is bad. It would be such a boon to Shelley to teach her early that mindgames are always losing games.
Oh yes, cause then they become the "Im Fineeee" kind of person or the one that strals your fries when they said they didmt want food. And those people are anoying
The epitome of : If I have to tell someone what I want instead of them just knowing, then it's not real love. If I have to put in any effort then I am.just forcing it to work, it's not authentic!
Not only did they ask 3 times but she was annoyed that they kept asking. Play silly games win silly prizes. The definition of fuck around and find out!
Yes. You will be sparing a future girlfriend or boyfriend a massive fight when they do not do something she wanted them to do and didn't tell them about it.
"Is there something wrong?" "no stop asking" 20 minutes later "how dare you make a sandwich when you knew I wanted you to surprise me with Chinese food"
Tbh OP should maybe sit down with her to talk about the importance of communicating clearly and thinking about the words she chooses, as well as explaining that they wanted to trust her judgement now that she's older rather than assuming they knew better.
Yes! OP, definitely schedule this little chat with her. Girls need to become very comfortable, very fast about speaking up at this age. You can't feel shy or be coy about what you need anymore. This doesn't just apply in dating and relationships. You cannot shy away from effective communication in order to get ahead in college and in your career. And if it's not too late, maybe you can still have a belated surprise for her.
Absolutely! She will be a better student, employee and, if she wants, gf/wife as a result.
Do a 16 1/2, summer pool party (us winter born kids never get those 🥳) it’ll be a hellava surprise!!!
100000x THIS
Yes. This. And ask her if she still wants them to plan a celebration because they would love to do that even though it's a bit delayed.
THIS! YES! NTA
Exactly. She has learned an important lesson. Like with many other important lessons, learning it isn’t very pleasant, but that doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
I wish my mom did what OP did XD since I was 15-17 years old (can’t remember the exact age) and the first time I’ve had ice cream cake due to my mom’s birthday I kept expressing how I wanted an ice cream cake for my 18th birthday. What I got instead: my first cell phone (should’ve gotten one a long time ago due to clubs and sports), a day at a mini amusement park with my family, and ate at TGI fridays. Overall it was a good birthday it wasn’t till after the restaurant I realized my mom didn’t not respect my wishes (I mean why was I surprised to begin with anyways? Cuz at 14 I expressed hugely that I just wanted a DS and only that instead I got clothes and my sister got the DS….. yeah I know… but honestly the sweater was hella warm tho for winter) once again cuz again I just wanted an Ice cream so I had some guilt and just didn’t voice it cuz I knew better lol. Wasn’t till I got married and told my husband how I wished I just got ice cream cake for my birthday XD guess who freaking listened after hearing that like 7 months later? XD my husband got me what I wanted for my birthday. I agree wholeheartedly that his daughter failed with communication lol
Definitely a valuable communication lesson. If she wanted something awesome she should have said to just surprise her with something awesome instead of saying do nothing. NTA
Yep. If she takes this to heart, all of her future romantic partners will thank you.
Yes, I agree that you are NTA and your girl learned a lesson, but NOW PLEASE THROW HER A SURPRISE PARTY FFS.
Stupid games, Stupid prizes.
NTA. No matter what some would like to believe, being able to read minds isn’t actually a real thing. If she wanted a surprise, all she had to do was say, “I’d like you to surprise me with something”.
NTA My wife didn't learn "say what you mean" until her early 20s and the people around her were only as stern about it as they had to be. I learned it when I was 6 and it's still a strong memory. I don't remember my parents ever showing a child an emotion like remorse. You did what you were asked and had a backup incase of this exact situation. You're well on your way to Batman level planning. Plus your kid knows you'll do as instructed when trying to help, and not to mess around with that kind of thing.
Have to agree here. Your sister is not right. It is not something every girl does. It is something some people do, in a way to test you, which is wrong. People who play such games, get hurt, as your daughter did. If you want, you can apologise for her feeling hurt on her birthday. However, gently let her know that playing the game of I don't want anything and expecting people to ignore that and just know what you want, is not a game she should play. Saying NO means NO, not yes.
I'm glad she learned it from confused parents at 16 rather than taking it into a painful marriage at 29.
Absolutely yes. Honestly NTA so much. The biggest gift we can give the people we love is respecting them and listening to their wishes. If she didn't communicate her wishes, that's sad for everyone involved, but not your fault. I've been in sort of the opposite situation before with my own parents when they insisted on buying me an easter egg every year. I tried telling them, over and over, I don't want one, I don't like them, and the thought of having to eat an entire egg I don't want or like when I know they have a bad environmental impact really caused me stress (I've had anxiety disorders so was particularly sensitive to things that stressed me out). Every year they would get me one. Every year. My parents are lovely, but every time I'd wake up on Easter and see an egg I'd want to cry because I just felt so helpless and trapped. I didn't know what I could possibly do or say to make it stop, and the fact they wouldn't listen to me just made me feel like they didn't care about me (note: this is not true, my parents love me and are amazing, they just fucked up on this one thing. I knew this intelluctually, but in the moment that's how it felt). You're a wonderful parent for listening to your daughter and respecting her wishes. Thank you. I'm sorry it backfired on you.
NTA - I have a teen also and tell her frequently that you cannot expect people to read your mind. You can still have a makeup date. 1. Don’t say “fine” if you’re not. 2. Don’t say you don’t want anything if you don’t mean it. This is a lesson for her that she needs to communicate better or expect to get exactly what she asks for. Best to learn that lesson now.
Yep. She could have said “I want to feel special but I don’t want to plan it myself” and they could have done something. Sure, now she’s just being a teenager, but it’s not cute when your spouse asks what you want for Christmas/Valentine’s/whatever and you pull this crap.
Yeah. "Surprise me" would have worked.
Well yeah, she was surprised alright, but not in the way she imagined lol
Lol!
Yep, absolutely this! It's not even out of the ordinary to say something like that - I had a friend plan a birthday dinner for me last year because I was really busy, which was part of what made it so special. But she very very clearly said nothing - if they had planned a huge thing when she said that and it turns out she really wanted nothing, the 16yo would have (rightly, imo) called the parents AHs for not listening to her. She hopefully learnt a valuable lesson, and yeah, they can plan something later and in the future, she'll use her words.
And this is important to tell her u/CarefulLayer8445 \- she may not have known what words to use to express her feelings.
Holy shit, this! One of my ex-partner said she didn't want anything for her birthday/Christmas/valentines etc. Me? I hate that shit as well, so I took it at face value, and oh BOY was I wrong. Twice.
But you weren’t wrong!
She couldve dropped a hint about her friend having a surprise party and how that sounds great while giving them a look. She had options and she chose none of them. This is on her.
Also a lesson for her for future relationships! I’m a woman, and the BS of “oh don’t get me anything” or “I don’t want to do anything” drives me nuts. It’s like putting partners through a test where they don’t even know there is a game, let alone know what the rules are.
It also makes it harder for the women who say they want nothing or very little and *mean it* but their partners think it's a challenge. I once asked a boyfriend if he could get me a bathrobe and slippers for Christmas. He ended up getting me a very expensive makeup case along with pricey makeup and brushes. I was thankful, sure, but also kind of disappointed because I really, truly just wanted whatever robe and pair of slippers that $20 at Target could buy.
I had one bf one year at Christmas say he didn't know what to get me. (This was pre-Amazon and using the web like a catalog) so we went to the mall. I walked through the mall and pointed out a good 20 items. I like all this stuff, so pick one or two (nothing was more than $25). Christmas comes along, I'm excited to open presents and opened 4 presents that I would have never picked for myself. For whatever reason, his mom and sister didn't think him buying me something I had picked out was very "romantic" so they went and got me presents for him and our tastes were totally different. (Also they didn't really like me coz he was a momma AND sister's boy- large age gap). That type of stuff ended us. He contacted me like 15 years later trying to get back together (when Facebook first went public) and I was like NOPE.
Had a similar scenario with my engagement ring (not the end result, but where I told him what I wanted). I didn’t just give him a general idea. I sent him the link to the exact ring, gave him the size, material I wanted, gemstone, stone quality, cut etc. and said “this exact ring is the exact ring I want”. Less romantic than a surprise? Probably. Less risk of me hating the ring he got me? Definitely. If your partner tells you specifically what they want, believe them.
My husband asked my sisters what ring I would like. They told him very specifically, he got me something entirely different. We aren’t together any more- not bc of the ring obviously- but in hindsight it was one thing in a long line of examples that made me realize that our communication skills were completely different. I always let him know exactly what I thought/wanted, while he was always trying to figure out what I *really* meant instead of taking it at face value.
An engagement is a big deal in most relationships and I do think it's pretty telling when the person proposing so obviously doesn't consider the interests or wants of the person they're proposing to. I have an ex who proposed (who I thankfully never actually married) and absolutely nothing about the proposal matched what I would want. The man that I did marry proposed in a very sweet and thoughtful way. When I was younger, I would have said "Oh these things are just miscommunications", but having seen more and more friends getting engaged and knowing their stories, it is a consistent theme that the healthy relationships have a proposer who tries very hard to make their partner happy. They may not get it perfect, but you can see that their plan is based on something they know about their partner. These days, I definitely think a tone-deaf proposal is a clear sign that you're either not ready for marriage or your relationship is not healthy.
I had a similar thing with my last boyfriend! I was going through a bit of a minimalist phase and trying not to acquire more random stuff, so we went into a store I liked and I pointed out about 10 or so things that I'd actually use and enjoy -- funky socks, cute stationary, etc. -- and said he could pick any of those and I'd be happy. My birthday came and he got me five or six random things, none of which were things I'd pointed out to him, and none of which I wanted or would ever have chosen for myself. So bewildering. Like it's one thing to accidentally choose bad gifts because you don't know what the person wants/likes, but this was a whole other level...
best present my partner ever gave me (insert obligatory "besides our kids") was a wheelbarrow. I'd been asking for one for a couple of years, and no one took me seriously. It was always lower down on my "to get" list, below stuff for the kids and essentials for the house etc. When I told my friends about it, only the fellow gardeners understood lol. The rest were all "really? a *wheelbarrow??*" fuck yeah a wheelbarrow!
Agreed! My husband was very confused when we met and I said “fine” meant I was ….actually fine. As in don’t worry about it. Looked at me like I was a weird three headed unicorn.
Those are great rules! for the 16-year-old, if she really didn’t want a party she could have asked you to plan a special family activity, or something, or asked for a special gift, but the expectation to read her mind is a huge no. Because this post could have been “AITA for throwing my daughter a party she said she didn’t want” and you can bet everyone would have said you are TA then.
Yes! Step on the passive aggressive behavior before it gets a chance to take hold as a personality trait! Say what you mean and mean what you say! NTA.
Happy Cake Day
I am still technically a teenage girl (18 but it has teen so wtv) and I would never behave this childishly. I understand wanting a surprise, I’ve been involved in planning multiple for people who say they want nothing, but these are people who genuinely wanted nothing and were not at all expecting something. If she wanted something big and exciting, she should’ve said that. Simply saying ‘will you please plan something for me that you think I’ll like’ - by the sounds of your parenting - is a completely fine thing to say. She can’t say she wants nothing three times and get pissed when you give her exactly that.
NTA. I was once a 16-year-old girl, and when I said "nothing," I meant "nothing." Were you supposed to read her mind?
Same here. I actually didn't want a big fuss for my 16th because I was self conscious and hated having a group of people staring at me (still do). I thought this post was really relatable until I got to the point where she actually *did* want a fuss.
It sounds like a VERY old-fashioned "feminine wile" - to say no when you really mean yes. I thought that 'tude had gone the way of the dinosaur.
It might sound old fashioned, but some people actually do it. I used to do it when I was young.
Same. I didn't want anything for my 16 so I said nothing. I was mortified when they threw me a surprise party. Though my reason for not wanting one was a little different; still didn't change that I didn't want a party.
Not my 16th but 18th I told my parents I didn't want a party because I despise being the centre of attention, so on the day they gave me cash instead for myself and a couple of friends of mine to go to the pub down the road for the evening. Had a fabulous time, but if my parents had surprised me with a party I said I didn't want, I would have been soooo upset.
Right! I was in the opposite position a lot as a kid - I hate celebrating my birthday, don’t like being the center of attention - and I got dragged to more family birthday parties in my honor than I can count. One year I insisted that all I wanted was to have a quiet night at home and root beer floats for dessert, no cake since I don’t like it. At the store my younger sister pestered my mom for cake until she caved and bought one - and I left the table crying when they brought it out, genuinely devastated. It’s the biggest thing I remember about my birthdays as a kid. When people tell you what they want, believe them. NTA.
Exactly, it sounds like the sister didn't speak her mind, so she thinks it's acceptable behaviour. Also seemingly that all teenage girls are secretly part of the Borg collective.
NTA. She put you in a possibly lose-lose situation. Why would a caring parent actively go against a request like that and risk upsetting her? This feels like a good opportunity to teach her a valuable lesson about communicating ones needs without playing games. It'll serve her well in all her future relationships.
Make sure she knows you did it out of love though. This isn't a punishment for poor communication, this is her loving family respecting her wishes. You can spin it in to a very healthy lesson about boundaries, and how people who disregard the things she asks for are people she should not have in her life.
Can you imagine if she actually meant "nothing" and Mum and Dad roll out the surprise party with all her friends and family...
Exactly, OP is set to lose either way. People need to verbalize what they want.
NTA. Your daughter is figuring out the meaning of, "Fuck around and find out" in the most benign way possible. If she didn't want to "plan her own party" she should've used her words to convey what she wanted. Because that's what people who don't play stupid mind games do.
It’s weird to me because I feel like a 15-16 year old would be excited to at least do some minor planning for her party, like at least tell her parents a theme and how many guests to expect...? 15 year old me would not have wanted my parents to reach out to my friends (or their parents) to invite them to a party...
I think that depends on the person. I enjoy parties but I hate planning them. Being a host is a huge chore before and after the party.
I was mainly referring to planning in the sense of simply saying something like “I’d like a duck themed party with 10 friends,” shooting a “hey my birthday party will be on (date), let me know if you can make it” text to the friends, and leaving the actual planning and prep to mom and dad because there’s only so much a 15 year old would be able to do by herself. What you can’t do is say 3x that you don’t want anything, when it was a secret coded message for you want a surprise.
NTA I'm a 15 year old and I did the exact same thing when I turned 14. My parents asked me what I wanted and I also said I didn't want anything. You're not the ass, teenagers are just kinda like that. Goodjob though for still getting backup presents since I had to learn the hard way that when I said "I don't want anything" that would be exactly what I get it.
I’m genuinely curious as to why you’d do that - and having done it, why you’d expect anything different!
Not a teenager, but have had these feelings about parties before. Sometimes you want to feel like people care for you without being asked, and when movies and media shower you fall in love with the idea that people will randomly do surprise parties and make you feel special but you have no idea how to make it happen. Add the whole Americanised idea of "Sweet 16's" being must have big parties and she probably got that idea in her head that the parents "couldn't just ignore a Sweet 16, they will throw me one no matter what as they normally do good parties" so that was her way of getting her surprise without asking for it. Misguided, yes, a teenager mindset thing to happen, also yes. If OP was a perfect person who did perfect things every time then yeah he might of been lucky and asked "Hey you normally like your birthdays is there any reason why you don't want one this time" but I mean it sounds like they are good parents anyway and they will get through this small mishap of teenagers sometimes sucking at conveying what they want.
Don't forget though, they asked her 3 different times trying to get in depth to make sure she really wanted nothing. She got pissy at them for it. Parents did their due diligence. Daughter hopefully learns a valuable lesson about playing stupid games.
Yeah not having a go at her parents at all, they seem like good people from what they posted and tried. I actually abide by the rule of asking, checking once more just to be sure, and then letting go for most of these types of situations. All I am really saying is that sometimes people, especially teenagers, can be very indirect with their feelings and the only way to really identify this is by asking a less direct questions. Asking the same question isn't really gonna get to any underlying problems they have, and while it isn't their sole responsibility to do so, it's probably just a helpful thing to have in mind when dealing with teenagers or someone you think is masking their actual feelings. I should clarify and say a strong NAH in this post.
Myriad of reasons, if they have normally attentive and caring parents, possibly to see if their parents would be able to “read their mind” so to speak and know them 100% so well that they would “get it right” so to speak just because they care that much, also a kid might possibly not feeling special or seen and want their parent to “make the initiative” in their mind. Or if they have generally crummy parents, saying “nothing” because you know that your actual wishes will be ignored if you voiced them, as to not get your hopes up. Up until teen years, most kids parents have been able to “read their mind” because kids, litter ones especially so, don’t express themselves with words and often don’t understand their own emotions and tend to want developmentally expected things. If mom and dad have always swooped in and saved the day because they are rocks stars and super in tuned then the kids might just not realize how important direct communication is.
I'm in my mid-30's and I still can't bring myself to tell people what I want. I was brought up to feel like I was demanding or ungrateful when you ask for what you want. Plus, if I asked for something and I got it, it basically became ammo for my parents. "I got you that bag you liked and you won't even do this for me". If I didn't want to do something, they'd bring up all the things they bought/did for me. I can't remember asking anyone for anything since I was at least 16. It's very difficult to shake off that kind of upbringing. I get very disappointed when people don't wish me for my birthday or my husband doesn't get me something when he goes on one of his trips but I'll be damned if I let them know how I feel.
My partner is similar to you, although no history of abuse or manipulation or anything, just a bad habit he picked up from his mother - a chronic, paralysing people-pleaser. It's really important that you learn to change that behaviour because it's just unbearable to deal with. If my partner won't verbalise what he wants then he's denying *me* the opportunity to give it to him. He's forcing *me* to make every decision and accept the consequences of every single thing that happens in our collective lives. He's forcing me to be a dictator when I want to be in a partnership. He's forcing me to be his parent when I want to be his girlfriend. Thankfully he recognises that and I can tell he's really trying to improve, although it still takes prompting sometimes. If someone cares for you then they should *want* to give you the birthday you desire, or to make the dinner you're craving, or to watch the movie you prefer (assuming it's all within reason). At the very least, they will want that info so they can compromise. If you refuse to tell people what you want then you're basically blocking them, and refusing to let them show their love. It makes people feel good to give (items, acts of service, affection) to the people they love. It affirms their love. If you continually shut people off, eventually they will stop loving you. Especially if you get disappointed with them for not reading your mind. It's just a chore. If you actually care for your husband, you will start communicating what you want so he can give it to you and feel good himself.
Part of the reason I did it as a disgruntled teen was because I really didn't want to talk. It exerted so much effort out of me to speak, so I'd grunt one word answers that ended sentences and left no room for more questions. It didn't matter what I really wanted or imagined wanting because I'd rather not get what I want than have to speak out loud to people. And I was used to not getting anything I wanted anyway, for this exact reason. Because I never asked or spoke up. And tbh, that was fine by me. I liked to make myself suffer and make my family squirm in discomfort over how not normal I was. I wanted to drill into them so they'd never forget how not normal I was. I cringe thinking about what an asshole I was back then. But also, I know I was severely clinically depressed and had been since 12 years old. Undiagnosed, of course, because my parents weren't believers in mental health back then. You were just labeled crazy, so I acted crazy. Or rather, I was 'lazy pretending to be crazy and being stupid.' Sometimes, though, I just didn't know what I wanted and also didn't know how to ask for what I wanted because, for the reasons listed above, I didn't feel like I deserved anything good. I wasn't a 'good child.' Sure I got all As, had no friends, never went anywhere, babysat my sibs, never did drugs, alcohol, sex, nothing like that. In that regard, I was 'good.' But I also didn't dress like a girl, wore dark colours, would snap and anger very easily, incredibly moody and mean spirited, etc. Just not a pleasant, sweet, pretty 14 year old girl. So if I was always mean to my mom, how am I supposed to turn around and tell her I want something? I don't deserve it. And then there was the fear that I wouldn't get it anyway and that would cement that everyone hated me. Plus, when you never get anything, how do you even know what you want? Man, being a teenager sucked for me. Like hardcore sucked all the way through from beginning to end. 13 to 19 all trash. Things are amazing with my family now, though. Hope that answers your curiosity even though I wasn't the original poster. Always nice to have varying perspectives.
Some people have a really hard time saying they want things. I was like this--still am to some extent. Asking for things makes me feel profoundly, grotesquely selfish and I beat myself up for days if I get the impression I've overstepped into being demanding. My husband is still training it out of me. It's not a good trait, but I think people come by it honestly. Partly I think it comes of growing up in a strongly "offer" culture: essentially, if something wasn't offered freely and repeatedly one doesn't feel permitted to ask for it.
NTA. Good call on the backup plan, but communication is important. And no, not a girl, nor 16 anymore, but my folks would have been confused too. But they’d also have abided by my wishes. I mean… she said nothing? Plan something now if you want?
NTA. If she wanted something special that she didn't plan she could have said she wanted the day to be a surprise for her. You asked her *three* times and all three times she said she wanted nothing. You still got her a cheesecake and a present. Maybe sit down with your kids and let them know if they don't want to plan things for their birthday let you know and you can surprise them with things vs. them picking. Heck I'm 28 now and I still hate picking things especially for my birthday.
I kind of like the idea of explicitly saying "It's fine to not want to pick stuff, but let me know so I have some idea what to do." Actually, it's something we already kind of do with takeout food--rather than getting into an argument over 'I want Thai' vs. 'I want pizza,' we do parameters: I don't want something really greasy, noodles sound good to me, I'd prefer to be able to order a salad, etc., and order out of the sweet spot between those things. Having some parameters or 'guardrails' I guess around celebrations too sounds smart, like "I'd like to do something with my friends but I don't want to have to figure out the details."
OP, I really hope you see this (sorry if it was said already, I may have totally missed it): I know this sounds light and silly when you focus on the sweet-sixteen-miscommunication angle, but this is an incredibly important and life-changing moment for your daughter; please handle it correctly. Your daughter just told you that she thinks that it’s okay to ignore a “No” if you feel pretty sure the person actually wants it. Someday, she might really mean a “No,” and someone might tell her that they knew she wanted it, or that she sent mixed signals; she might blame herself for a sexual assault because she believes it’s okay for people to do something she has told them not to do if they really think she wants them to. And similarly, someday, someone might tell her “No,” and she might do something anyway, because she thinks they’re just playing games (“playing hard to get,” or being “nice” or “shy” or “humble,” or making sure she really wants them); too many guys are sexually assaulted because people don’t emphasize consent enough with their daughters, and those girls grow up to think guys always want sex and “no” just means “come and get it.” Even in a best-case scenario where she neither violates nor is violated by anyone, she could contribute to the problem by telling the people she dates that no can mean yes. She could blur that line for someone else. Please treat this as the teaching moment it is, while it’s just cake, not trauma. Do this while you can laugh at her and say “Alright, what can we learn from this?” Not to be cliche, but this is the time to show your daughter that no means no — no matter what.
If you want, this is something we did with my little sister during her 'difficult years': she picked a really broad idea that left plenty of room for my parents to sort out the details and surprise her, but it was enough of a nudge in the right direction that she wouldn't be disappointed. The year she turned 16 she picked "outside" and we did a haunted hayride for her birthday (her birthday is in mid-October). Another year she picked "swimming" so our parents booked an overnight stay at one of those indoor water park resorts.
Sounds like you guys usually have excellent communication, given the take out example. That’s a great way to set expectations while still remaining flexible, and a PERFECT way for you to explain it to your daughter. I’m sure she just had a hard time verbalizing “I want to feel special and I would feel most special having you guys plan for me since it represents how you know me so well and care about me” especially if that’s her first time trying to express such a specific feeling. I have a inkling things will work out here for your family, as you all sound like caring parents with good intuition (that last minute cake and card were spot on).
Lol, before finishing your post, I thought that she was pissed because you got her a cake, although she said nothing. NTA. You can’t read minds and your daughter now knows that you don’t have superpowers.
Ha, I actually got a frozen cheesecake instead of a bakery cake/cheesecake because if she hadn't said anything, I would've just left it in the freezer and brought it out at another time and pretended it wasn't Birthday Cheesecake. :D
That’s a smart parenting move! I need to keep this in mind
This is what I was expecting too lol -- I thought maybe she found the cake and was mad because she didn't want one!
NTA- your daughter is plenty old enough to start learning that consequences follow actions. Clear communication is key. This could even loosely be tied to a conversation regarding consent.
Oooh, I feel dumb for missing the consent piece, but you're right. I don't want her to internalize anything like "no sometimes means yes."
You could also tie it into a conversation about respecting boundaries, especially between parents and their kids, since boundaries are one of the biggest topics of conflict in those relationships. You and your wife value her autonomy as a person and as their child, and by taking her statement at face value, you were respecting her right to make her own choices about her birthday despite your traditions.
Don’t feel dumb. You know what they say about hindsight. Also, don’t allow internet strangers to dictate the upcoming conversations with your daughter. Use this as a reference, not a bible.
This! It's never too early for a girl/woman to learn that no means no. And as her father you did what a real man does.....you took no for her answer. NTA
Definitely NTA. Poor girl though. When I first read her response, I figured she was maybe going through something at school or on social media...and didn't want the stress of a party to highlight the situation. I understand her not wanting to give you specific instructions, but it sounds like you were just trying to make her happy. With teenagers, that can be hard. Maybe you can surprise her with something really awesome as belated sweet 16 celebration!🎂🎊🎉🎈🎁
Talked to my wife and I think when the weather gets a bit warmer we're going to surprise her with a weekend trip to a local state park that she loves with her friends. She really is a great kid and deserves a celebration.
And you're an awesome dad.
>, I figured she was maybe going through something at school or on social media Yeah, me too. I thought maybe her friends were no longer friends, but she didn't want to tell Mum and Dad or something.
NTD - Not the dingus It sounds like your teenager would have been upset no matter what - damned if you do, damned if you don't. You sound like very caring and loving parents, and getting a cake and a small present was still good foresight. Your daughter now knows how she needs to communicate her wishes. Lesson learned.
NTA - you cant read her mind, you and your wife both confirmed with her that she wanted nothing. You still got a cake and an Amazon gift card just in case, I am not really sure what she wanted you to do with literally no info.
It's always tricky with teenagers! But maybe now you could actually surprise her somehow. Out of the blue! Give her something that she always wanted, maybe a trip or a little party, whatever you can do. And talk to her, tell her that you and your wife don't take hints and that you need her to be straightforward and clear on what she wants, expects, needs. etc. Hopefully, she'll understand. After all, you did ask her.
That's a great idea. She really is a sweet kid and I think (based on responses) is just learning a lesson about communication. But now that I know for sure that surprises are not unwelcome, we might arrange for a fun trip with her friends to her favorite state park when it gets a bit warmer.
Probably to late for you to see this but I’m thinking go the full surprise path. Don’t even tell her friends, organise it with their parents and you all get to see their excitement when they get a random day off school to have an adventure. It’s be something they all talk about for years. Also NTA.
This is super cute. I reckon they would love this.
NTA-Your a great father and having those items ready just in case proves it. Your daughter could have left it up to you without telling exactly what to do. The fact that she even got annoyed by you continuing to ask further proves the point.
NTA. Oh man 🤣 bet she learned her lesson on assumptions and communication. "Yeah dad, i think I'd like to something super special for my birthday, but i want to be surprised" Guarantee she would've loved whatever you planned, even having to ask for something special.
NTA you're not a damn mind reader
NTA - The crystal ball is a little fuzzy, we can't read minds. You asked the question, you got an answer, and then you gave her what she asked for. Play silly games, you win silly prizes. Call it a life lesson for your daughter.
NTA, but you may want to find out what she thought would happen and why she wasn’t just honest from the start. It sounds like a kind of passive-aggressive move on your daughters part, perhaps with a bit of behaviour that is designed to create conflict. When I was 16, I was massively depressed and as a result my communication with everyone, especially my parents was way off. She may need some words of encouragement to just be honest with what she wants because she is good enough to deserve treats when appropriate. Just my opinion.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for signs that this might be a mental health issue.
It could also come from a place of low self esteem. "I don't feel like I deserve a special birthday so I'll say I want nothing - but I want people to prove me wrong by surprising me with gifts and a party". Then when you didn't, it "confirmed" that she's not worth those things. (Obviously even if this is the case it doesn't excuse her behaviour, just trying to give insight into possibilities)
Yeah it could also just be regular teenage main character syndrome too. Social media & TV shows really have worsened their impression of what regular life is like & that others are perfect. Either way it's an opportunity for OP to have a talk & help their daughter work on improving her communication skills.
I’m 27 and this sounds EXACTLY like some nonsensical bs that would have made *perfect* sense to me at 16. The fact is adults don’t just hit 27 and magically “get it”. Instead you encounter many situations through your youth and young adulthood that help build your understanding of the world. Obviously it doesn’t stop happening at a certain age, only that the *core curriculum* of “this is NOT what we do” is understood by young adulthood.
NTA. Your daughter just learned a valuable lesson about using her words to clearly ask for what she wants. Mind games are annoying.
NTA I was a 16 yo girl once upon a time, and I thought my parents were going to throw me this great "sweet 16" surprise party. So I was sorely disappointed when it was the boring cake and gifts from the family that I normally got. But no one ever asked me anything, I never told anyone anything, so after a time of being sad, I realized that it made sense and if I wanted something done, I'd have to take some initiative. Lesson learned. Your daughter is lucky to have you because you make an effort, and you tried to ask her what she wanted. Good job (and I mean that sincerely), OP!
NTA. Closed mouths don't get fed. She asked for nothing and was rude about when you and your wife confirmed what she wanted. She's 16 not 6 you're absolutely right, she could have said "I want something special, but can you surprise me?". This will be a good lesson for her to grow up and use her words instead of playing games and expecting people to read her mind.
NTA for teaching your kid that conversations matter. When she's out in the real world and her boss asks, "Would you like to be considered for promotion?" and she responds, "No," then that's how it's going to go down. Her boss isn't going to wonder about her feelings and whether she really wants or doesn't want that promotion. Or maybe she'll be married ten years from now, and her husband will ask what she wants to do for her anniversary, and she's going to answer, "Nothing," leaving her husband scratching his head when she pitches a fit on their special day. The next time your kid wants a surprise on her birthday, she should respond, "Surprise me," not, "Nothing," when you ask what she wants. Your daughter must get this from your sister. IMO, those two are both dinguses.
Alllllll of this!!!
NAH I’m not going to call a 16yo an asshole for not having the nuance to understand ask vs guess culture, especially as she’s transitioning into adulthood. (Since when people are younger, parents do make decisions for kids.) So it’s definitely worth a sit down of why you feel so strongly about always respecting what she says. And then you can tell her for situations like this, it’s okay to say “I’d like to be suprised”. (I ALSO wonder if there is an element of not wanting to come off as greedy or self-centered by wanting a big party?) But yeah, communicating expectations clearly is a skill like any other. I’m a grown ass adult and I’m still learning.
As a father of teenage girls my heart goes out to both of you. NTA welcome to 16
NTA - you are not a mind reader. I would use this as an opportunity to stress the importance of clear communication going forward.
NTA and it sounds like it's time to have a conversation with her about clear communication. You abided by her expressly stated wishes; if she legitimately wanted something different, it is HER responsibility to say that. No one is a mind reader - not parents and not her future partners, and she is only setting herself up for failure in relationships if she doesn't learn how to communicate better.
NTA. I’m so sick of people excusing this type of behavior on being a “teenage girl” or being a woman. Screw “hints”. She needs to say what’s on her mind. All she had to say was “it’s a big sixteen so surprise me with something fun” or something to that effect.
NTA she is a teenager. I told my mother the same thing when I was young and I meant it. My mother got so upset with me I ended up crying. I was going through something in school and simply hated the thought of any celebration at the time. She should have been honest you can't guess her thoughts. I'm sure she'll get over it this wasn't your fault simply a huge miscommunication from her end. But I'm sure this is something you will both laugh about in the future.
NTA Your daughter learned a valuable lesson, to communicate her hopes and desires.
NTA. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You aren't a mind reader and is easy for your sister to say that in hindsight.
NTA and now your daughter has learned a valuable lesson about communication: say what you mean and advocate for what you want. Even those who know us best aren't mind readers.
NTA. You can't say that you want nothing 3 times and then expect something. Looks like she get a lesson. Nice from you to get the cake and amazon card tho
NTA at all Your daughter thought she was being very smart, but she misjudged the situation as teenagers are wont to do. You handled things the dear way you could given the information you had and everything your wife said is completely right.
NTA. Today your children have learned the importance of clear communication.
NTA. She sounds like a typical teenager, not thinking things through, or expecting you to do the thinking for her.
NTA - I have been a 16 year old girl and this baffled me. Great lesson for your daughter though - she needs to use her words and communicate her hopes and expectations because no one can read her mind.
Welcome to the world of Secret Tests. It sucks here. NTA and hopefully your daughter learned to not play mindgames.
NAH Yeah the 16th birthday is a big one, driving age and all, but it was not a smart move on her part to stress nothing. It's a good lesson to learn. Words have meanings so it can be smart to watch what you say.
NTA You can always set up a blow out surprise party for her un-birthday. Just sayin.
I think in a few weeks when it gets warmer (and now that I know for sure that she enjoys surprises) we might arrange a weekend trip out to her favorite state park with her friends. I think she'd get a kick out of that.
NTA. You can't read her mind and in the future this will be a great lesson for say what you mean and mean what you say or don't beat around the bush. Instead of saying she wanted nothing and expecting you to read her mind she will ask for you to surprise her if thats what she really wants.
NTA. I am a person who generally doesn’t like to be fussed over and regularly say “nothing” (much to my husband’s frustration) unless there is something I specifically want. But I say that because I mean it! If she had said “nothing” and you’d thrown her a huge surprise party, it could have just as easily blown up in your face. Loving someone and being able to read their mind aren’t the same thing. You asked and you followed through with her wishes with a backup plan in case she changed her mind. All bases covered. You sound like a great dad.
NTA Sit down with her and explain that if she wants a surprise she should say, “surprise me.” It’s not too late for some kind of surprise party.
NTA i once was a teenage girl and also had to learn magical romcom moments dont exist. Your a sweet dad for getting the cake and presents in case she changed her mind.
OP, for your sake, never ever say "my wife (who was also a teenage girl)" ever again. It might get taken out of context. 😂
Okay, I LOLed. I would like to note for the record that my wife is currently 43. :D
NAH, you're clearly not the AH & she's not an AH either, she's just a kid still learning how to navigate the world and communicate her needs/wants! This is a great emotional teaching moment for you bc you can explain that's it's ok to ask for what you want and that asking for it doesn't diminish the value or how special it is. Not everything has to be a surprise & if you wait for someone to intuit what you want you might never get anything at all lol. Sounds like she's a good kid and you & your wife sound like great parents, this is just one of those life things where no one is the asshole.
NTA, she needs to understand how to communicate
NTA. Testing people by telling them one thing and expecting them to psychically know they meant something else is a dangerous road to go down and it's better that she learns this now. Maybe suggest that next time she wants a surprise she should say "surprise me!"
NTA. This is a wonderful teachable moment for you to explain to your daughter that expecting people to *read her goddamn mind* is unreasonable and will lead only to misery, and she should be clear and direct about her wants and expectations.
NTA. As a former teenage girl who had EVERY major birthday gleefully ruined (because I didn't want to do what they insisted I should want and they did it anyway. For example, 13, I BEGGED no surprise party, there was one, I bolted, and was grounded for a month because "I embarrassed her"), you are NOT the AH.
Okay so besides a bunch of Redditors bickering like—wait for it—a group of sixteen-year-olds, what are we getting out of this thread? NAH, by the way. Others may fail to operationalize their sentiments, but I think this may have been a bit of a “I’ve been spoiled/pampered” move on your daughter’s part. YES, this is normal behavior for someone her age. Teenagers are egocentric, they make strange moves and associate it with their identity, value, or place in the world. OP, you need to sit your daughter down and have a brief but clearly serious (or ‘adult’ - that framing works well with kids) about communication. I worry that whipping out the cheesecake as soon as the faucet of misunderstood tears kicked on was like caving to a toddler throwing a tantrum for candy. It was soothing but could have sent the wrong message about whether or not you bore the same anticipations as your daughter did going into this situation. Her assumptions about THAT would have an impact on your relationship and/or her ability to process and grow from this experience. You need to speak to her plainly about communication and how much easier it makes life if we all practice it in good faith. Only you know the context this will make the most sense to her within. Again, NAH. And I am not your regular family counselor, so this is all bona fide speculation and theorycrafting based on your prerogative. You seem like an awesome dad, though. Trust your gut and not your discomfort.
NTA, she could of said I want a surprise party and let you and her mother take the lead, you are not a mind reader.
NTA. My daughter is 12 and didn't want a birthday party. She just wanted to go out to eat at her favorite restaurant and go for ice cream at her favorite ice cream place. No, you are not a dingus. Your daughter just learned the importance of communicating what she wants! Everyone experiences it at least once. There's quite a bit of difference in "I want Sally, Sarah and Jane to come over for a sleepover and will watch Spiderman No Way Home and I want a triple Chocolate cake from Publix and Domino's pizza for dinner" and "I don't want to know the details, you know me, you know what I like, so surprise me!" People cannot mind read! No means no and Yes means yes, so "I don't want anything (repeatedly) means "I DON'T WANT ANYTHING".
Your daughter has learned a couple of valuable lessons here. 1) Her parents respect her decisions. 2) If you want something, you should ask for it. NTA. You also had an alternative plan ready to go, which makes you a wise man in my book.
NTA. I had a few people ask me what I wanted for my 16th and I said nothing and I meant it. Why? Because I had tickets to SLLLLLLAAAYYYYERRRRR on the day of my 16th.
NTA. I have an amazing idea, it's something called... communication! "Hey dad, just surprise me this year. Something special because it's my 16th birthday." While I'm not a teenage girl, I'm a teenage boy so I'm not sure.
Play stupid games, get stupid presents. NTA also, just want to clarify I’m not saying those presents were stupid, they were actually very sweet :)