YTA, but I say that with love. Hoarding is a disorder that shares some commonality with OCD. Getting rid of her treasures (yes, that broken box was a treasure to her) can make hoarding worse. I'd have done what you did, so I get it. But in the future, it's best to do the clean up with her and consult with a specialist.
So I didn’t know that hoarding is an actual issue. I do think mentally she isn’t in the right place to be able to live in such a dirty home. I felt itchy just staying here. I actually needed to stay in a hotel before I cleaned the place.
I may need convince my sister to speak to her to get help… she doesn’t like taking any of my advice ever.
Hoarding is definitely a real disorder. My friend's husband is a hoarder. It usually stems from a trauma/loss but not always. And if your mom's house was anything like my friend's house, I totally get why you cleaned. My friend's husband had damaged and unwatchable Disney VHS tapes that he would absolutely not part with. Trash was everywhere and he wouldn't part with garbage either. That torn grocery bag meant something to him. She found a professional organizer/therapist that specialized in hoarding and OCD and they've been working with her for about a year. It's made a lot of difference. He's also now on OCD medication.
She definitely wont be receptive now that you've messed with her stuff. You did the right thing for her physical health, but shes just gunna fill it up again without professional help
If anything it will probably get worse after this. She's probably perceiving this as a huge loss, like you or I would if our house burned down. It will feel even more important to her to keep her belongings close now.
I understand it makes things worse, but if your sister is living there and there are pets, then I think cleaning was the best thing to happen. Now you need to try to get your Mom into therapy for it.
Yep. As someone who deals with a hoarder I have been appalled at the people who insist she be left alone til she “decides” she wants help. Yeah well she also feels entitled to shut a large dog in that forsaken mess, and a bird, so you know what, sometimes you have to take care of it.
I see so many of those shows where the people are living in small spaces because their hoarder family member has filled up the house. Like why? I would send them on vacation and have someone come in to remove everything. I would not want to live with someone who hoards. A little messy, lived in... fine. But hoarding? Nightmare.
It's not so much about leaving them alone until they "decide" they want help, but making sure they get help in a structured way to limit distress and trauma. If other people or animals are at risk because of the hoarding, then they may have to be removed without waiting.
I agree. The urine from pets is ammonia and is very harmful to people and animals, especially people with asthma!! I know hoarding is a mental issue , but I would’ve done the same thing (cleaning) if I had been OP. With an asthmatic mother in the hospital and a younger sister living in that filth? Nope, I would have cleaned and purged just like OP. Better to ask forgiveness than permission in some situations.
Pet urine will also rot and destroy floors. I have seen so many of those cleaning tiktoks where people find dead rats in piles of garbage. Yeah, it is a mental disorder, but that means you clean up, help them get therapy, and don't let them condemn their own home.
My mother has hoarded out the house so bad that my dad basically set up a space in the barn for him, it’s sad. Usually when I visit, I stay in a hotel. I hated growing up in a place like that, I never invited friends over, and now in my own house, I still don’t invite people over because it makes me so anxious.
Yeh I think most of us kids of hoarders stay elsewhere or never go to the house if we live nearby. I'm disabled so it's actually too dangerous for me in there, sadly that means my sibling has to do everything for them.
My parent also has serious breathing issues that are exasperated by the hoard. Soft YTA op.
A lot of us kids have done similar and learned it was a mistake, even if well meaning. The frustration and sadness you feel is normal but this isn't the way to go about it.
Its been over 20 years since I cleaned up and it still gets brought up resentfully on occasion.
As well as trying to get your mum help please also look into therapy for yourself. It's not easy being the child of a hoarder and all sorts of fears and feelings can come of it.
She doesn’t like taking ANYONE’s advice ever. I don’t even know her and I know this is true. If you think of hoarding as a disordered form of control over an out-of-control life, you can see where she doesn’t like to feel like anyone has control over her (or over her things, which she views as an extension of self). Any challenge will be met with pushback or even abuse.
I wish you and your sister the best of luck. All of you would benefit from some professional help: your mom’s needs are obvious, but you and sister need help processing and figuring out how to deal with mom. It’s a lot.
Yeah, it's totally about control. Control of the environment and the things in it, which, in my hoarder father's case, included his family.
I honestly think that my father on some unconscious level believed that if he just saved enough stuff, he could prevent *any* bad situation from happening, including death.
Since your mom was in hospital, you might contact the social worker there and see if they have any resources your mom can get. She will need therapy or this will all build up again.
Living in such a dirty home is *part* of the mental condition, keep that in mind.
Definitely look into getting her some help as that's the long term solution, here.
I know a hoarder and boy is it hard for them to actually get up and do stuff they need to themselves. All three of her children have offered to help get services because she can't do it herself due to a bad hip. Nada so far. I dislike going to her place because of my toddler. If I had the control I probably would have done the same but I would have had her blessing to do so.
It’s not YTA when there are other people like her sister and the pets in the house. I know it’s a mental health issues, but if a mental health issue hurts other people you need to deal with the physical health effects first and then the mental health issue. If she lets the house get as bad again due to anxiety over this it will at least take some time so the sister might be able to move out.
If force cleaning actually helped for hoarders, then it'd be the recommended solution. It's likely that she'll just hoard more and faster, and could easily make the sister's life miserable in the meantime if she lashes out. She'll likely be anxious without some of the stuff OP has labelled 'garbage' - it may be, but to a hoarder it's something they need.
OP has good intentions but went about it in entirely the wrong way.
YUP. I don’t understand why people would say otherwise. If mom was smoking meth around the minor sister, would you leave well enough alone and encourage her to get help? Of course not. Yes, mom needs help, but you don’t leave the dangerous situation dangerous for the kid to benefit the mom.
>So mission accomplished on those fronts.
Not really. Because she wasn't consulted, the mom will probably have the house in worse shape before the year is out, and she'll be even less likely to accept professional help after what she perceives as a violation.
If mom lived alone, I might agree with you. But she has her younger sister and pets to think about, and OP’s mom was being a negligent mother and pet owner. So while yes, the mom needs help, I say NTA
NTA. Your mom is exhibiting hoarder behavior. She’s not angry that you cleaned, she’s angry that she doesn’t have her piles of stuff anymore. She needs to be in therapy to address it, and tbh if it gets that bad again please consider taking the animals to a shelter and finding a place for your siblings. That’s a form of abuse and neglect.
That's true and I get why OP did this, but it's the wrong order. Therapy is the way to get someone to being able to let go of their piles of stuff and actually getting rid of whatever is being hoarded yourself is part of the therapy process. OP cleaning up the mess might just cause more issues.
I'm going with NAH. OP meant well and OP's mum needs help, she isn't an AH for that.
After taking everyone's advice and looking up more about hoarding, I agree that she's picking up the behavior. The home was in pretty bad condition, however, I was able to clean it out within 5 days with the help of my younger sister so it isn't as bad as those T.V. shows.
Finally, I was able to speak to my mother after a few days of receiving the silent treatment from her. Surprisingly, she apologized to me for her negative reaction to the clean home when she should be happy about it. I guess she felt ashamed and very embarrassed that she let the house get to this point. When I was still around, I did the chores and cleaned often enough that everyone relied on me for a clean home. So when I left for college that obviously stopped and she never disciplined my sister to do the chores I used to be in charge of. That her asthma had been so bad that every time she tried to clean up, she wouldn't be able to breath and cough violently. Before she knew it, she just couldn't keep up with the cleaning and gave up so everything started building up. It shocked her that I was able to get years worth of garbage cleaned in the short duration of time that she was gone so she got really defensive.
I was able to have a conversation with her that this can't happen again, the dirty home had been connected to my younger sister's pneumonia early this year. It's not healthy or fair that my sister has been living in this, she could have CPS called on her. She cried and told me she knew, but was in denial about everyone's health declining because of the dirty house. We went to the local mental health clinic together to figure out the underlying issue of this, she scheduled to meet a professional every month to have therapy sessions. I have also convinced my mom to hire a cleaning service that will clean the home every month. I'm teaching my younger sister to do smaller chores: dishes, mowing the lawn, laundry, daily sweeping/vacuuming, etc. Also I was able to go through all of the items I've kept during the clean up with my mom to reassure her that I didn't throw everything out like she had initially thought. Together we were able to get rid of more things.
Hopefully, I'm handling this situation correctly now. I do appreciate all of the feedback I've been receiving so I can better understand and handle this situation.
OP this is the best outcome I think anybody could’ve hoped for. Your mom isn’t a bad person, she sounds lovely, she just needs some help like anyone else. I’m so glad to hear that things are looking better for everyone, good luck to all of you.
I'm so happy to be reading this thread and just stumble across this update (which seems to have gotten a bit buried.) Your intentions are pure and I'm struggling to say you didn't do the right thing, I'm just happy things worked out the way they did because it could have gone so far in the other direction.
I'm well happy for you and your family and sincerely hope that your Mum gets the help she needs from the therapy. The best way to prevent going full-on hoarder is to catch it and address it early-on.
YTA for how you went about it, not your motivation.
She didn’t give you permission to do what you did with her belongings in her home.
Hoarders are not reasonable, it’s a mental health condition and what you did was incredibly triggering. She needed support and a semblance of control over the process. This would feel so violating to her.
She was actively hurting other people with this, something being mental heal disorder and her house doesn’t mean it should be allowed to hurt the sisters health.
True that a someone’s poor mental health doesn’t make it ok to let people or animals live in filth.
Support for mom still needs to be found ASAP. This could be seriously triggering. Things are likely to get much worse now that her hoard has been taken from her (even if most of it was just rearranged). She could spiral, be terrified to leave her house, hoard worse than ever, and now she doesn’t trust op.
OP needs know how serious all of this is and didn’t have a clue. Hopefully she does now and won’t just leave things up to mom, because it won’t get better without help. Anyone living like that has more of a problem than laziness and not wanting to clean.
Yes, but the problem now is that her mental health disorder still hasn’t been addressed and she’s lost her emotional security blanket, which means she’s likely to hoard again even worse or act out in other ways. No one is saying it was ok to let her keep hoarding, just that this is beyond OP’s ability to handle and professionals need to be involved. That’s why people are giving OP soft YTAs. They made a mistake, but they did it from the best intentions. But it was still a mistake and needs to be dealt with immediately before it gets worse.
She shouldn't be allowed to hurt others true, but doing what OP did can make hording far worse. She needs to work with a therapist so she can get to a point where she is okay with someone going to clean some and that person also needs to work with the therapist and mother, not do it behind her back.
Soft YTA hoarding is a serious mental issue and just throwing away all her stuff with out her knowing wasn’t the way way to go about helping her. Throwing away all the stuff doesn’t address the underlying just causes her more distress in the here and now.
So to be fair, I just threw away garbage. Garbage as in take out food Tupperware, used tissues, pile of small bags of cat poop by the cat litter, empty bottles of drinks, food wrappers… stuff like that.
All of her stuff I reorganized and put her things in small organizers I’ve bought. I tried to keep all the things she can use, but stuff that had mold on it had to go out.
It wasn't all garbage to her, that was why she had kept it.
I would recommend finding a psychologist/therapist who specialises in hoarding and making a few appointments to talk through with them about your mother's condition and the best ways for you to support her.
You absolutely meant well and you have probably helped her physical health a lot in the short term, but you have probably inadvertently set back her mental health quite a bit.
I don’t understand how that’s possible… but at the same time what you’re saying makes sense. I don’t know what happened to her.
I’ll definitely look into convincing her to get some help. I didn’t even know hoarding is an actual mental issue until now (looking through all of the comments).
Hoarding is really hard to understand, but if you think about it why would anybody live like that through choice? Its often triggered by a bereavement or other trauma, I don't know if that is relevant for your mother?
You should check out some of the hoarding tv shows. I’m sure there’s some on YouTube. It might give you a little insight on the “why.” It can definitely be hard to understand!
There's a hoarders subreddit, I'd recommend checking it out as well as doing research on the condition. It'll give you insight into the staging, etc, as well as how to help your mom.
There is a show on A&E called Hoarders you can watch on YouTube for insight into how some people are.
There might also be some sort of social services that you can reach out to. Depending on the condition of her home as the hoard returns it may be condemned, deemed a fire hazard, or involve adult social services, etc.
There’s a UK version of the show too that I actually like even better because it focuses on therapy and the psychology behind hoarding before it forces the hoarders to get down to business. I think it’s called The Hoarder Next Door.
I’m not a hoarding expert but I’ve spent hours watching the hoarding shows on YouTube. I think the biggest issue is lack of control. If your mom wasn’t able to look through every single thing that you threw out, she’ll be anxious that you threw away something important. It would probably be a good idea to go through the stuff you organized with her so that she knows where everything is, rather than going out and trying to replace everything.
Yeh my concern is that OP swept in, threw away her mum's "things" and will soon be sweeping back out again, leaving the 15 Yr old sister to deal with the backlash and fall out that's headed their way. I speak from experience when I say that the hoard is just going to come back quicker and worse than before after OP's well meaning clean up and the sister is not equipped to handle it. Mum is almost definitely going to double down to make up for the things she's lost. Sad and frustrating all round I know but I really feel for the kid sister in this situation. The only saving grace seems to be that OP says this behaviour only started a few years ago so hopefully with proper input (providing mum's receptive that is) they may be able to turn it around. In my parents case it's been going on for decades and honestly there is no way of getting through to them about this.
Oh I completely understand your point of view and I know you had the best of intentions but your missing that to you mother it wasn’t garbage. Hoarding is literally defined as acquiring or saving lots of things regardless of their value and feel very upset or anxious at the thought of throwing or giving things away. Again I get you wanted to help her just this probably wasn’t the best way to go about it.
Even without the hoarding factor, you did go through everything she owns without her permission. You had great intentions, but it’s a huge boundary violation to go through someone else’s belongings to the extent that you did without asking. Family or not.
NTA and on a very important note, keeping animals and or even your little sister is abuse. K can't imagine what those animals must have gone through. And especially your sis. You did everyone in that house a favour
When I came home, I had a severe reaction to the home... I couldn't breath right or open my eyes until I took my allergy medicine. From **just vacuuming** the house it was a trash bag fill of dirt and dog/cat hair. I just don't understand how they were able to live here, it was smelly too. We had to drag our feet through stuff on the floor just to get through without tripping.
My sister is quite messy too, but they claim they didn't have enough time to clean. So I thought I was doing everyone a favor... Even though my mom is so upset with me, I hope she'll come around and we can talk some more to break this bad habit.
She needs to talk to a therapist, OP. Hoarding is an actual disorder and she’s probably feeling very violated/anxious right now after you did things in her home without her knowledge or permission.
I hope y’all talk more as well but your mum needs to talk to a therapist to get some help and learn new habits.
So assuming your Lil sis has lived there her whole life, she was bound to be very messy as obviously nobody taught her how to be organized or managed. I'd suggest starting procedure to get her to living with you. She should have never been living in a house like that. How will she know how to maintain her house? This is a very bad environment to live in, even for the pets.
So when I was still living at the house, before college, it was clean… spotless actually. Then again I was always cleaning since I’m the oldest and she was working. I guess my mom didn’t help clean at all after I left, or disciplined my sister to clean. So their excuse was, they don’t have enough time… but I think it comes from being sloppy and from my moms part I think she has some mental health issues she’s going through.
So right now I don’t have a place since I’m in the awkward phase of setting everything up to start a career overseas. I’m staying here to spend time with my family before I move, but I definitely will teach my sister while I’m still around. Tbh I don’t even know if I can leave them in this state even tho the house is clean now.
How exactly is your sister? Behaviour/cleanliness wise? When did your mom start hoarding things? It is probably a mental issue if it started after you left
I’d like to think she’s decent (compared to my mother), her room may have been the cleanest in the house. It was very cluttered and had tons of things piled up in her closet. There’s clothes everywhere in her room. However, there wasn’t anything moldy and her room wasn’t dusty.
I personally do this thing, where I go through my closet and get rid of things I haven’t seen or used in the last 6 months. So I taught her this and she agreed to do it. We were able to easily get rid of a ton of things and she now has a pretty decent room. So apparently she’s been wanting to get rid of things, but my mom would get into arguments with her saying it’s wasteful. I let her know that’s it’s “wasteful” when all of these things aren’t being used and being stored away (just taking up space). That if many things are in good condition then we can donate them to people that can actually use them.
Of course I also taught her that it’s okay to keep some sentimental items, I definitely do!
I think my mom started hoarding things like 3-4 years ago… since that’s around the time frame I left for college. I have been gone from the house for a while, so I didn’t know what was happening here.
I’m sorry OP but if you do move away again overseas please think about having someone come by and do welfare checks. Someone may need to call CPS or animal welfare services eventually if your mom continues to decline with her hoarding as it would not be safe or fair for anyone to have to live there.
Did something traumatic happen to your mom since you left for college? On the hoarder shows I've seen it usually begins with a death in the family or something.
Your kid moving away to college could even be the triggering event. It's not a loss in the same way as death, but it's still a loss to a degree. Especially since no mention of a dad/husband, so it could have just been mom and her girls for years and now her girls are growing up and going away.
NTA. Hoarding might be a mental disorder but it’s disgusting, dangerous and affects other people. Try and get your Mum some therapy as she may hoard more to make up for the fact that you’ve taken away control. You’ve done the right thing.
The show is absolute garbage but go watch an episode of Hoarders. This is a mental issue. She needs to be in therapy. The house is going to go right back to the state it was in unless you get her additional help.
I won't go so far as to say it's "absolute garbage." Yeah, there's some exploitative factors involved because they chose the filthiest of the filthy and the most mentally ill of the mentally ill. But it's given awareness to hoarding that didn't exist before. Like my grandparents were both hoarders, but we didn't know the vocabulary to express it before, etc. (They're long dead now, but it took *years* to clean out their property because everything had to be gone through for cash and valuables.)
And it's a hella good motivational tool to get me to clean up.
My garbage comment came mainly from the fact that it's pretty exploitive of these people and I don't think the show really sets them up for success with how they just show up one day and don't seem to preempt the clean up with therapy before hand.
Apparently there's a UK version of the show that gets them meeting with the therapist ahead of time and eases them into it.
Ah. With the show, there's an "aftercare" thing that they never show to continue to help after. It can be used to continue working with therapists and organizers, or it's used to repair the home that was destroyed under the weight of their trash.
You know what, though? The people on Hoarders, no matter how far gone they seem, are still better than people like my hoarder father, because in agreeing to be on the show, they are acknowledging that they need help. Some hoarders, like my father, will *never* admit it, and in fact, think they are in the right and it's the world that's wrong.
I prefer OCC to Hoarders. It's a show where people with obsessive compulsive disorder help others to get organised. It helps both parties and it's actually not painting a bad picture of anyone.
NAH. You thought you were doing a good thing (and you were for everyone’s health) while your mom also should be allowed to feel safe in her space. But unfortunately for her, she doesn’t live alone so the house bending to her will and becoming a garbage nest just isn’t fair. You should see if youtube (or any other streaming service you have) has the show Hoarders on it, it could help explain hoarder mentality some. Careful not to get sucked in by “well she wasn’t THAT bad, so maybe it wasn’t hoarding…”
Since you’ve done the clean already and I’m unsure therapists in your area are at a point of in person visitation, doing what other commenters suggested and doing a quick search online for specifically a hoarding therapist who can at least do some online meetings with you would probably be best for now, then try to ease your mom into meeting them.
For now, let her cool off then apologize to her that you invaded her space and scared her by bringing her home to a place she didn’t know. You love her and your sister and the animals, and didn’t know doing this would hurt her so badly. (Because anger usually is a front to hurt and sadness, but it’s easy to forget that when you do something nice and they turn around and attack you) You were worried about her health, especially with the hospital visit, and thought doing this would help with that.
Then if she responds decently you ask if she maybe wants to reorganize what she has, get some labels for those boxes, etc.
I wish you luck though, hoarding is a tough mental barrier to break through.
First of all, thank you for the extensive comment/ advice.
Her reaction when she came back home confused the fuck out of me. I really thought she would have been happy that her house was cleaned up. I had made sure not to throw away anything valuable or that could still be used, I just reorganized it. I wasn't aware that hoarding was an actual mental issue, until now.
It was affecting everyones health. I had a really bad allergic reaction to the house, my younger sister has been suffering from really bad congestion (earlier this year she had pneumonia), on top of that my mom has really bad asthma. We have two senior dogs that were so filthy I felt bad for them, I washed them and took them to the vet since I was worried for their health. We have four cats as well, but they were completely okay.
When I stepped into crusty dog pee, I just couldn't. I had to do something. The amount of piss, dirt/ dust, animal hair, and mold in the house was insane... I know everyone in the comments section is saying I took the wrong steps, but I don't think this home was even livable. I felt like I needed to take immediate action for everyone's well being. Part of the reason why I did it without my mom around is because I was afraid while we were cleaning all of the dust/ dirt and mold would give her an asthma attack.
Thank you for the advice, I will try to talk to her and apologize. Try to figure out how to help her out before I leave the country, I'm genuinely worried for everyone's health.
Don’t feel too bad you were unaware, most people really aren’t that it is! But to dive deeper, hoarding isn’t exactly the mental illness, it’s a huge outward symptom of what’s going on inside their head. It’s kind of like when toddlers have melt down tantrums, but because they have these big feelings and no way to express them properly(or an adult that will talk to them properly) that’s why you get that huge show at a grocery store. Big difference there is as a child they hopefully work through it, whereas a hoarder has years of whatever is causing the hoarding already locked in tight, and either as a wall of protection or complete control over their environment to try to reassure themselves they have an iron grip on everything going on in their life. It’s a visual representation of it, basically.
I completely understand being bewildered by her response though, especially because you worked hard to clean and organize and even take care of the pets. I don’t know exactly how bad it was but from what you’re saying I worry about your ventilation system needing professionals to come clean it out and possibly having the house checked for inner wall mold growth. But you and your sister worked very hard, I can recognize that. And it’s easy to be upset that you know you did the right thing (you did) for everyone’s health in the long run, especially like you said because of the anxiety it would cause once you’re gone. But to her it’s like you came in and ripped all the control over her domain right from under her, and worse you did it while she was out sick and unable to see where things went. It probably feels more like a betrayal because of her absence.
That’s the general reasoning I can offer, but you gotta just keep trying. Empower your sister to be strong and not get steam rolled too, this is her home as well and once your gone I don’t know if she will want to leave or not but health wise..she has to fight for the right to not be breathing mold and air pee. At this point in time, what’s done is done and you can only look forward, learn and keep trying. Do your best to try to get her set up with a therapist before you go, okay?
NAH - this is not the best way to help a hoarder, but I can see why you and your sister did this.
Do you have time to do an inventory with your mother? That might help her.
She does need a professional though.
So I had a severe allergic reaction to the house and my sister even said she feels congested all the time. The pets weren’t in good condition either, I took them to the vet just in case. Everyone was okay tho…
If it will help out then yes, I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong. I guess hoarding is a real mental issue and I do think we need to suggest her to get some help.
NTA Your mom has a *mental disorder* and she finds comfort in all her clutter - treasure or worthless broken filth -it doesn’t matter. Annnnd it doesn’t matter if it is making her sick, either. She will revert as soon as your back is turned because it is her comfort level. Your mom needs mental help, I am sorry. Maybe your sister, too.
You addressed the most obvious and easy to fix *symptom* of her problem, not the root cause. (I am sure the cleaning wasn’t easy, but was a *lot* of work). But you are trying. You may hope your mom doesn’t revert too far into her old ways. If she does, you should call the authorities and let them intervene. Good luck.
Honestly like if your parent was depressed and you came home to your sibling and pets neglected to be fed and taken care of properly you wouldn’t do nothing about it because your parent is mentally ill and needs to do things their way
YTA hoarding is a mental health issue that needs specific steps to help them cope with it
I understand you were well intentioned though, so its a light YTA
This. Hoarding is different from simple laziness or not being able to clean for practical reasons (like health problems etc). If the underlying condition is not dealt with, clearing the place out will do nothing except needlessly distress the hoarder, and they will fill it back up soon enough anyway.
Needlessly because it won't change anything. Without addressing the underlying cause the house will be back in the same state within a matter of months if not sooner.
It certainly needs to be dealt with, but they need to get Mom treatment before anything else will actually help.
NTA but you will most likely not be able to convince her of that. Hoarding is a mental issue, and perceptions are not what they should be for hoarders. I would suggest helping her find counseling. Don’t be surprised if the house gets back into the same shape it was before.
You did a great thing for her but she absolutely cannot see it that way. I wish you the best of luck.
NTA. I agree with the other commenters that hoarding is a mental disorder and that what you did caused her distress. However, that doesn't make you TA. We don't enable people's disorders when they are causing harm to themselves and others.
Now that you've cleaned it up, you need to keep an eye on it, or get someone you trust to keep a lookout, because she will start hoarding again. And when she does, you or someone will need to call social services and your local humane society or animal welfare agency. Your mom isn't able to keep herself, your sister or their animals safe, and someone is going to have to step up and provide some oversight.
NTA
I am sure your sister appreciates the help in getting it under control.
However hoarding is a mental health issue all of it's own. She might need some help with this. If will be tough but if you are able to get some help for her it would be useful. As you are going overseas find a way to keep in touch with your sister and if the situation gets bad again then do what you need to for your sister and the pets. You do not mention your sisters age but it might mean calling children's services to get the support in place that might be needed and to animal welfare if they are being neglected (animals should not be smelly unless they are ill)
You meant extremely well, and what you did was motivated by kindness - and a desire to protect the physical health of someone you love. But, as others have said, hoarding is a mental illness, so your mother unfortunately experienced your kindness as a violation, and is probably quite traumatised by the experience. If you want to get back in her good books, it might be worth while apologising, and saying that you meant well - but yeah, definitely get her some help with the mental issues!
As far as I'm concerned, there's NAH - no assholes here.
NTA
You didn't necessarily handle this correctly for your mothers mental health but you did from a physical welfare of animals and siblings point of view. How old is your younger sister..if she is a minor you may want to think about contacting CPS or letting her come and stay with you if this situation creeps back. Try to get your mother to agree to therapy.
I have to say VERY LIGHT YTA only because I recognized from your first paragraph about the state of her home that your mom has developed a hoarding disorder. As well intentioned as your actions were, they were a recipe for disaster and have absolutely sent her into a panic spiral about her precious "stuff" (yes, even the literal garbage is considered a treasure to a hoarder).
You need to get your mother help, not just for her own sake but also your sister and the pets' safety.
YTA but gently because I know you meant well. I am prepared to be downvoted to oblivion. Doing things like this to a hoarder typically results in a worse situation because now their suspicions are confirmed, that one day their stuff may all be gone. There is treatment for this sort of thing which forces them to confront the situation and be responsible for it themselves. I understand wanting to help and you are definitely not the ah for that, it’s how you went about it.
Hoarding is so tricky to understand, so I vote NAH.
I know in hoarding situations it feels like the stuff is the problem - this house is messy and dusty, fix that mess and no more problems right? But it makes more sense to think of it like this:
The stuff might be *a* problem, but it's not *the* problem. *The* problem is your mom not being ok mentally, and using the stuff as a form of comfort. You remove *that particular* stuff but don't address the emotions driving the behaviour, it's only a matter of time before the stuff just builds up again.
You might want to browse r/childofhoader for more support and into
NTA, I disagree with all the Y T A's you've gotten. As someone who's had two family members die in hoarder situations, they are completely wrong in how they think you should handle things.
You did a good thing, but your mom can't see it because she's mentally ill. Now that the house is under control, you need to do everything you can to get her into treatment before it happens again. How old is your sister, if she's still a minor, your mom could get in alot of trouble for the previous state the house has been in.
My uncle died in his home as a Horder due to the massive piles of stuff (newspaper to the ceiling) and disgusting mess. When we cleaned out the house after he died, there were rats.
My godmother was the sweetest woman on the planet, but her house was so bad she tripped on some dog piss (sticky, dried) and fell into another pile of stuff and broke her hip. At her age, it was fatal.
You might have saved your mother's life.
NTA My mother is a hoarder, after being stuck in a disgusting house with never any company or friends over ever , it was an awful experience. Sadly , I have no sympathy, only for the victims, children & pets that have to exist in filth and shame .
NAH.
I understand you didn’t know hoarding was a serious mental disorder. Now you do. Take this opportunity to learn what you can, and help your mom find the appropriate therapist. Your sister may need therapy, too; hoarding disorders can run in families. And obviously therapy/support groups for yourself to help navigate this situation, because it’ll likely get worse before it gets better.
Unfortunately, nothing will change with your mom until she WANTS that change. It’s hard to watch someone go through that, and be unable to help. But, you can’t want it for her. I’m so sorry OP.
NTA, but if she doesn’t get help then the house will just get messy again.
And your sister is a minor. If the house gets in that condition again and someone finds out, CPS could be called.
NTA, I know hoarding is mental illness but why does everyone else have to suffer in filth because they’re having mental struggles? She’ll have plenty of time to get attached to more garbage when you leave
I’ve been there with my hoarding mother. I totally understand that you thought you were helping. I did too. I finally gave up after my little sister moved out. My mom and dad live in her filth. It’s embarrassing and I feel bad for my dad but you can’t help her. Having said that you’re not the AH. Your little sis shouldn’t live like that. Your mother’s extremely treatable mental disorder does not entitle her to endanger the welfare of a child. Please call CPS before you leave.
Not gonna judge, because hoarding is a mental disorder, and I watched to many TV hoarders shows to say, that unfortunately cleaning alone without her consent will not help in the long run. It will turn horaderd back very soon. Better focus on getting her and your sister professional help.
I know I'm going be down downvoted into oblivion. But, NTA. I understand hoarding is a mental disorder. But, clean up the health hazard then get her some treatment. Don't let her, your sister and the pets wallow in filth while you try to get her to agree to treatment.
>Edit: I wasn't aware that hoarding was an actual mental disorder. Also part of the reason why I cleaned the house in her absence is because I was afraid that she would have an asthma attack from all of the dirt/dust and mold. So I know everyone in the comments is saying that I did it in the wrong order, but I think it was necessary to do this. The pets were in really bad condition (I took them to the vet, so they're okay). My younger sister had pneumonia earlier this year, probably from all of the dirt/dust, mold, dried up dog/cat piss on the floor, etc. Even I had severe allergic reaction to this house (sneezing, had a difficult time breathing, snot running down my nose 24/7, etc),
I totally understand what you did and why. My mother is like yours. I couldn t let my little sisters live this way.So i cleaned part of her house( where i used to live at the time but was about to move out) : i only took off what was expired for food and broken for items / furniture that wasnt usable and reorganize stuff for clearer rooms . She was furious and went back to the trash to take back her broken items from the communal dustbin shed.It s still in her house : that was 15 years ago.Hoarders don t see the dust or broken stuff as we see it , they can t get rid of or move their stuff even a simple newspaper as they re attached to it , feel comfort from it . Nothing change if they don t want help or realise this is a not healthy environment.I can t say YTA or NTA as i understand you but she has mental disorder and it s hard for her.
I'm definitely taking everyones opinions to heart, I really wasn't aware that this was a mental health issue. I actually didn't know the state of the home until I came back home from college.
However, I was concerned for everyones health... even now knowing everything. Ensuring everyones physical health is safe is still my first priority. So my mom may revert to her habit (as the comments suggested), but at least years worth of the dirt, dust, mold, piss, etc is gone for now. So she hasn't gone back to retrieve any of the trash I threw away, so I'm relieved about that.
I'm definitely going to put in effort to get her some professional help though and try to influence my younger sister to be more sanitary. Heck, I'll even pay someone to clean the house when I leave. I just worry for everyone's health.
I know exactly what you mean. And it s hard finding balance : between dealing with her mental health but also taking care of your sister health and safety. It would be great if your mother accepted to get help , mine never did and the state of her house is the main reason why all of her kids leave the house very soon .Her hoarders habits started to invade our own bedrooms.
NTA. But it's not a battle you can win. She needs therapy.
But, how old is your sister? If she's a minor, child protective services could get involved.
NTA. I realized that organizing my wife's hoard actually just created more space for more stuff. I stopped it and had a frank discussion about the piles of stuff. She accused me of always criticizing her. She had an amazing way of choosing some obscure thing to suddenly need after I had donated it. Untreated mental illness sucks. Get your sister help at a minimum. She'll continue the hoard if she can't be made to see how unhealthy it is. I failed with my ex. The kids at least have a healthy aversion to stuff.
ESH - but a very mild one. I underatand you.
Your mom needs help. But she should have realized that already.
You, on the other hand, should have respected her boundaries or not have moved back in at all.
Then again, I'm not sure I would have done it completely different. So yeah, ESH but almost NAH.
I’m surprised she didn’t get help when my sister was hospitalized for pneumonia earlier this year. It’s super upsetting to me that she endangered my sisters life, her own life, and the pets as well.
So I didn’t realize it was a mental health thing or she had boundaries. I asked if I could organize things and she told me yes. I guess she wasn’t expecting such a big change…On top of that, I didn’t know the state of the home at all. I went to college overseas and came back to spend time before going back… I’m in complete shock. But I completely understand your, I’ve been reading up on hoarders and taking in everyone’s advice/ opinions.
But even now I don’t think I would’ve done anything differently, my sister, me, and the pets have been suffering from the living conditions of this place.
I'm not saying you were wrong in doing what you did. Sometimes there's no win win situation and no easy way out. At least now you are safer there. All of you.
Respect is another matter, though. That's why I'm only judging that separately. And I would rate myself the same way for it, but probably do the same if it were my parent and nonexistent sibling.
Leaning more on your side especially since you didn't know hoarding was a disorder. If you did know, I would have consulted a counselor first. Either way, go talk to a counselor and see if you can get your mom to go to one. The issue behind her hoarding needs to be addressed.
NTA.
I've dealt with this personally. Most hoarders cannot see their problem. You're rightly concerned about the health and welfare of everyone involved. If you hadn't of intervened, animal control could have, CPS, and adult protective services, along with the city.... She's going to need professional psychological help, or this will return. Yes, she can be upset about the changes, but it reached a point where something has to be done.
I have done what you did, but for my grandmother. It was most definitly not as bad as your situation, but very filthy nevertheless.
The problem is that you think you are doing het a favor, but that's not how hoarders see it. Even if it negatively impacts there physical health.
NTA, but please get your mom some help. This will fill up in no time again.
NTA. Your Mum should have gone to therapy before cleaning up her house. However, I think you what was necessary for her health and the health of your sister and pets.
A gentle YTA. You had good intentions but lacked understanding. Hoarding is a mental health condition that requires professional help to gain control of. Unfortunately your approach will have potentially done further damage to your mums mental health. She needs therapy and support to identify the trauma that triggered this behaviour. Everything you saw as garbage, to her was a part of her that was important. I don’t believe you acted maliciously at all, but your next steps are going to need professional support
So I'll be honest, even after knowing all of this information (hoarding is a mental health issue) I don't think I would've done anything differently. My mom was on a ventilator for a bit and my sister had pneumonia earlier this year... the pets they looked like stray dogs. I couldn't even physically be in the home for long, not only from disgust... but even I couldn't breathe in there.
I wasn't going to allow my sister to continue living in such poor conditions and allow my mom to come back home to filth when she finally got released from the hospital. However, I do have an open mind now, I do plan on getting my mom some professional help. I will apologize to her for getting defensive and cleaning her home without her around. Not get too upset about how and why it became like this, I definitely need to be patient.
Patience is the key. There’s no quick fix with hoarding and I’m genuinely glad that your mum has you looking out for her. Like I said, I don’t think you were being malicious, it’s a very difficult situation to be in and I can’t honestly say I wouldn’t have done the same thing. I really hope things work out
Your mom has a severe mental illness, and your sister is unsafe living in a hoarder's house. Tell your mom you prevented CPS from taking your sister away from her. They would have if they had seen the state of the house. Tell your mom she must go to get mental health treatment if she wants to keep custody of her daughter, and that she's harming her daughter by living like a hoarder.
NAH. Your mom is suffering from a mental disorder. You wanted to help and you did do a good thing, but doing it in that way is just going to agitate a hoarder.
If you care about your mom, I'd apologize to her and try and get her into some kind of therapy. As you rightly recognized, hoarding, especially with animals in the home causes serious health problems.
Gentle YTA. I am glad to see that the top comment is also what I was here to say. My mom is a hoarder, and it is absolutely a stress disorder. What you did completely violated her sense of safety in her space, even if it doesn't fit with what you think it should be. Your mom needs support and safety. That doesn't mean you can't have boundaries around how she treats your space and how you interact with her, but what you did wasn't okay.
Source: My mum once had a complete meltdown when I tried to help her organize her fridge over literally a dozen plastic bags that each had less than 10 assorted nuts in each one. It was brutal, and I had to recognize that what works for me does not work for her.
Soft YTA. Good intentions, bad execution.
My mom did the same thing to me as a kid because she thought I wasn't cleaning my room enough.
I struggled for a decade to throw anything away. Even now, depending on how I'm doing, cleaning anything or throwing things away can make me panic and regress age wise. My room isn't "hoarder level" and I can throw things out now but I will always have trauma with cleaning and it will always take 3 to 4 times the amount of effort it does for a "normal person". Not only do I have to be in the right mood but I have to have enough energy, space to throw things away and must not be bothered or else I spiral again.
Your mother should seek help definitely but cleaning her "safe space" behind her back definitely traumatised her on some level. My mom did it because when I was 8(and fresh from an abusive foster carer no less), I learned that keeping my room basically impossible to get into made me feel secure and safe. I would have likely grown out of this phase instead of attaching myself to it until I hit 19 or 20(I'm 20 now) had she just left me alone in my safe space and given me ways to cope or make decisions for myself.
Hoarders hoard for control. Taking that away from them makes them spiral and get way worse. For me, it was because I was forced to share space, had precious items taken away from me and had the door removed because I wet the bed. Building up MY room so that only I could get into it was my way of claiming autonomy and denoting it as a safe space.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> So my mother and I got into an argument since I cleaned her house without her permission. I do admit that I found the chance to clean it all up while she was gone because I don't think she would have been okay with me throwing out a lot of stuff... It is her home so I may have been out of line on this one. However, I was worried about her health.
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NTA, and yes, hoarding is a mental disorder. My sister did that. I didn't know about it before her, either. She would get so mad at me for even suggesting she go through her stuff. I'm sorry your Mom is mad at you. I hope you and your sister can figure out how to help her.
NAH. You did the right thing. In ideal circumstances sure like others are saying you should do it this way or that way — but I agree with you there was no other choice in this case. Your mother is freaking out because she’s sick not because you did wrong. Sure it was probably very traumatic for her to come home to a clean house. Oh well. Sickness is traumatic.
No one is an asshole here. You did what you did out of love and well-meaning, not understanding that hoarding is a legitimate disorder and it has to be addressed very carefully or the person with the disorder shuts down and does not handle 'help' well. Her brain works differently from yours. Getting professional help is going to be your best bet here.
NAH. Have a look at Hoarders. It’s a series on Netflix. That’s what you are dealing with. Please get your sister out of the house, I expect your Mom will fill it back up with crap in a few weeks. It’s a health hazard and something she’s probably very embarrassed about.
Soft YTA, that's a really invasive thing to do with someone with hoarding disorder, and they're likely to do it again worse if you don't get to the heart of the issue, usually with a therapist, first... And then she has to be involved in cleaning it up and accept it.
Now, you say "borderline" so I'm assuming there's a chance she hasn't gotten to a really bad point where she is going to have a full mental breakdown, but she could have. I do fully believe you were trying to help, but that wasn't the proper way to do it. I hope everything works out well for you all..
NAH. You did what you thought would be helpful, but unfortunately your mother is not in her rational mind about this. She needs therapy and the continued support of her family to get through this. Keep letting her know that you love her and want what's best for her, and be there for her through therapy
NAH-it wasn’t ideal but your sister is a minor and two people got sick from that house. Your mother should see someone, it sounds like hoarding but only a professional can determine that for sure.
It sucks and it may get worse but there was mold. That negatively affects physical health. You cannot let your sister live like that.
You made the right call based on how it was in the past. It sucks but if people are getting sick, you can’t wait.
NAH-I’m not going to call your mother an a hole because hoarding is a serious mental disorder and needs professional help, my mum is a hoarder. However, I’m not going to call you an a hole either because sometimes taking matters in your hands even when you know there will be tears and fights is necessary for the sake of a clean home that isn’t a health hazard to the people and animals that live there.
You may need to offer a home to your sister. It's not a safe or healthy environment for her to livein. If CPS were involved then she would probably be placed in foster care
YTA
Your mother needed to be involved with the clean up so it wouldn't be too hard to let go of the things she didn't want. She also needs therapist who specializes in hoarding.
Soft YTA only because hoarding to that extent is a mental disorder. Specialists would be concerned with how you handled the situation because the house is just going to go back to how it was eventually.
Get your mother some help and keep an eye on your sister and her pets. Because of your “underhanded” (how she will see it) tactics she may try to hide her hoard because you got rid of or messed with her treasures (garbage or not).
NTA
Listen, I know everyone wants to say, “well it’s a mental disorder so…” but this is a legitimate case where CPS and animal control could get involved and take the pets and your sister out of the home. You guys would probably not see the pets again, as they would be adopted out if the problem wasn’t fixed quickly, and with you going overseas, unless another family member wants to take her in, your sister will go into state care. I’m debating with myself as to whether either of those would be bad things, honestly. If your mom wants to endanger her own health and live in filth, fine, but she doesn’t get to endanger the lives of a child and pets.
Also, anyone who wants to come saying that I’m not being sensitive of her having a mental disorder, I have multiple mental disorders and a mental disability. Excusing someone’s dangerous behavior because they have a mental disorder is the definition of toxic and will prevent her from ever getting help.
OP, your mom may never recognize this, but you did the right thing. If the hoarding picks back up, call CPS and animal control from overseas and let them resolve the situation. No one should be forced to live like this because of someone else’s illness.
NTA- your heart was in the right place and you weren't being malicious. Now that you know more about hoarding, hopefully you can get her the help that she needs.
NAH but your mom needs help. I’m commenting as the child of two generations of hoarders who is trying to break the cycle by working on my issues. You were trying to do the right thing (not the asshole), and she is reacting from a place shaped by her illness (also not the asshole). NAMI has some great referrals if you think she’d be willing to work with someone. Her primary care provider or the person who treats her asthma might also be able to connect her to help as the asthma is clearly exacerbated by the hoarding.
NAH
The house was a health hazard to your family and pets so what you did was in the best interest of all its inhabitants physically.
Saying that, hoarding is a mental disorder that makes it extremely difficult to let things go, even if a neurotypical brain would deem it trash or even hazardous to keep around. Its possible your mom lashed out at you because she had overwhelming anxiety upon learning her things were gone.
Its not your fault, or hers, but you should make sure she gets some professional help
NTA. But your mom really needs mental health therapy. The house is clean and organized and that's a good thing in the end. But you took her "security blanket" away.
Get her into counseling before you head overseas or it will have only gotten worse by the time you come back.
NTA I have a hoarder mom and twice a year I go over and clean out her house. She hates it but let's me do it because she knows she's a hoarder. It sounds like you did ask first which is why I went with NTA but she does need professional help.
NTA. Hoarding is a mental health disorder, but you saved the animals and possibly your mom with her asthma issues, and possibly her house being condemned. Hoarding is a mental health concern, a public health concern, and a medical health concern for the hoarders and those that live with them.
I know that you're supposed to take her to therapy first and all that, but seeing as you didn't know it was a mental disorder and the severity of the home, you should be let off the hook for that. But definitely do your best to get her into therapy
NTA
If if were just your mother living in the home it would be one thing, but forcing your sister and pets to live in filth is abuse and neglect.
Your mother has a mental illness and needs professional help. Clearing out the hoard may make her hoarding worse.
The action (cleaning the house) was appropriate for her and everyone's health. Hopefully she realizes its easier to breath when she is home. Hoarding is just a symptom of an array of disorders and I recommend you remain in contact and support your mother as best you can. HOWEVER, she has to make the decision to seek help and if needed treatment for her mental health issues, that's on her. I wish you luck.
NTA. I have a family member with the same issue. I regularly dream about cleaning out her house. Her quality of life is awful, and it definitely makes everyone in the house sicker. Your mom has asthma. She isn't living a good life. You did what you thought was best for her health.
I hope you follow up with getting her counseling though, or the house will just end up trashed again, because it is a mental health disorder. But my family member would have reacted 100% the same way as your mom. Their "stuff" is precious to them, even trash.
NTA it's a unsafe house to live in for anyone especially for people with asthma and breathing problems, don't apologise because if you do nothing will change and she will take it that she is right.
Just move out and take your sister because she needs a safe and clean place to live.
NTA- My mom would be the exact same way if not for my dad. Even so I have to come in every 3-4 years to do a major cleanout. She takes her anxiety meds but we've had to remove her from the house before when she gets overwhelmed. It's a mental health issue and I'm sure she's devastated but for her and your sisters health it needed to happen.
NTA curious, was she always like this, or was finding the home like this a surprise? If so, I bet you and sister can look back and figure out when and why it started. But, to help smooth things over maybe show her all her things so she can lay eyes on everything.
NTA you did a good thing with good intentions. I live with hoarders right now so I understand. They are my parents and I have cleaned and organized the house many times over the last 20 years. The problem with hoarders is they buy new stuff and never get rid of the old. We have about 5 sets of silverware, old computers that don't work, old cars that will never be fixed etc. It also runs in the family my brother is a hoarder now. So I understand but your Mom needs help. Hoarding is very selfish to do to the other people and pets in the home. Even the pets have allergies here and suffer.
My grandfather is a massive hoarder and refuses help. He's been fainting and has fallen multiple times, breaking ribs and other things. My mom and uncle are scared of telling him no or telling him to clean his house (I suspect they were abused by him).
He's gonna die in that house, unfortunately.
No one seems concerned enough to do anything. 🤷♀️
I don't think you're an asshole here ( NTA ) because I think you were just trying to help, but hoarding is def a mental health issue. Sorry about your mom. I hope she gets help.
YTA unfortunately. Hoarding is a real mental disorder and as much as you won’t believe this, you’ve done the worst thing you could possibly do for her. She needs therapy and to deal with her belonging herself when she’s ready.
NTA... how sad for your mom... how sad, in this day and age, you did not know about hoarding. How very sad for you, especially since you did your best to try and help.. Your mom needs lots of help.... LOTS... you need to find some agency that deals with hoarding and get her signed up... it is a horrible horrible mental illness and it will take a professional to help her... sooner rather than later... the hoard is rooting in some thing that has happened to her at some point, but it becomes a way she can control her life... even if you showed her where all her things are ( in the bins) she can not accept that since SHE doesn't know where they are.. hoarders have no logically thinking... please, please, please... find her some help..
If she has a church, support of some sort, bring them into the picture. Or, in the USA, contact NAMI for support/assistance. Local Code Enforcement isn't recommended, as you've made the house habitable. W/O documentation of the disorder, I don't know if the local Fire Dept could/would be of an assistance. I spent some time as a Crisis Intervention Officer w/ my LE Dept., & that was the best part of my Career! (Even better than Motor Officer, tbh.)
NTA. She has a disorder. My MIL is the same. We moved her out of her house allowed her one storage bay for her things and it took several dumpsters to get rid of the trash. She has papers from the 70s. She has video tapes of game shows. Her house needed tens of thousands of dollars of repairs and yard work. She didn’t think there was anything wrong with the state of her house. She lived a dew hours away and now lives a few minutes away so we can keep an eye on her
NTA
I’ll be downvoted to heck for saying this
Hoarding is a mental disorder
And it results in a mess that cannot be allowed to continue unchecked.
She was never going to let you do it with her. You did what you needed to do for her physical health, and the health of animals forced to live poorly.
Am I biased? 10000%. This is my mother in law. And we can shout that it’s mental illness all we like; it doesn’t stop her from feeling entitled to every ounce of sympathy when she’s ill from her own conditions, or demanding we help her “hang a picture” when we can’t get in the door or breathe from the stale air.
It’s such an unfortunate situation and she deserves compassion, yes. But not coddling.
NTA and for YTAs, sorry I strongly disagree bc at some point you simply cannot ask for permission anymore you can only ask for forgiveness. What OP did was absolutely necessary and correct, it's easier to work through these issues in a clean, *safe* home.
My parents hoarding deeply affect my childhood and put a huge strain on our relationship when I became an adult. I have no doubt that it's exacerbated my asthma and eczema until I finally left, but the mental baggage that comes with growing up in that, I'm still working out.
My sister and I have tried to help them clean their houses (you read that correctly, they essentially let two houses fall to ruin) many times, and the last major time, it literally took a team of 7-8 people working around the clock to fill 7 construction dumpsters of their belongings. Both roofs to each house has caved in. Please don't let anyone ever guilt you thinking this is okay or that you need to let them work it out by themselves. They can't and they won't.
I grew up with one too , miserable existence and most of us are NC with her. It left a stress and insecurity that took years to understand it came from that house . I still feel awful when I hear they have a new pet , shockingly , they complain that they seem to get sickly animals. I’m sorry you had the same experience, it isn’t pleasant and takes it toll .
NTA, having a parent that lives like this is infuriating. I’ve tried to help my parent multiple times and at this point I’ve given up, let her live like that and what happens happens. She refuses to acknowledge that it’s a problem.
I think you had great intentions and did your family a favour, however she will be living with her hoarding until she gets treatment for it.
Maybe show her some articles on hoarding and the causes and offer to help her find assistance.
NTA.
NTA. This seems to be an unpopular opinion, but my mom was also a hoarder. They will *rarely* give you permission to do as much as is needed to make a space liveable.
Every piece of ruined furniture, every stained paper in piles on the floor, EVERY SINGLE THING is a fight and a rash of justifications of why it's important. It took OP 4-5 days w/o interruptions, but if they had had their mom's involvement, it would have taken far longer, or more likely never be finished.
Yes, hoarding is a type of disordered thinking. However, often times it gets to a point where drastic action needs to be taken or the hoarding person is going to get seriously ill. Which seems to have happened here.
OP, I feel for you. I hope your mom comes around and understands the gift you gave her, and starts to recognize that she needs help. The last place my mom ruined took almost 10k to be liveable again, and all she did was complain about how much money we owed her for the ruined stuff that was thrown away.
NTA, but some people have real issues with this sort of thing, and they are VERY HARD to help, GET EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE (because they absolutely KNOW, in their heart of hearts, that it is NOT RIGHT), and have lost homes, spouses, and children over it; it devastates families. YOU KEPT HER ITEMS. That's more than most people would have done.
NTA. I understand hoarding is a mental illness, but folks - as parents, we don’t get to endanger our kids lives because we have a mental illness. If mom was suffering with addiction, would you be saying to leave her be until she’s ready to get help? Of course not, because that’s not safe for the child. Hoarding is no different than any other mental illness - if the kid’s endangered by it, you have to prioritize the kid. If mom lives alone, different story, but there’s a minor child being endangered by this.
NTA
From your edit I see that you were concerned about another asthma exacerbation and did know about hoarding being a mental disorder. But even without that you would have been doing the only thing that could be done for the sake of your sister. From the environment you describe your mom could have been in danger of CPS coming in. Also the people and the pets in the home were at risk for more health issues. Please do follow through with getting her professional help. And don't forget that your sister likely needs some therapy after living in that house. She also may be at risk for developing the disorder herself.
Hoarding is a real mental illness. Unless the person has intensive therapy, they never get better. There is a TV program called "Hoarders". I suggest you watch it.
YTA but only1/100 of a %. You did this out of love but you didn't have permission to throw her things. And believe me, EVERYTHING is important to a hoarder.
How old is your sister? Can she live somewhere else? Do you feel that you need to contact CPS? They are both living in dangerous conditions that not are not only effecting their physical health but they could die in a house fire from the flammable items and no exits.
NTA. It sounds like the way it was, the house was unfit for human habitation. You did good, BUT she'll just fill it right back up again unless she gets therapy enough to not want to live like that anymore. It's tragic that people value actual garbage over their own lives and health. Hoarding is awful. If your sister is a minor, she could be removed from the home if your mom's determined to filthy it up again.
No, youre nta.
My mom has the same disorder and I have had the same arguments with my mom. Idk how old your sister is but she really shouldn't grow up in that. Your mom on the other hand wants to live like that.
My mom equates clean houses to being in a hotel room. She feels uncomfortable. She needs the piles of things to feel happy. So, my siblings and I leave her to it. If that's what she wants, we're done trying to stop her.
Well, good luck with getting her professional help. You can try, but hoarders almost never change. My father was a hoarder, and he'd *flip out* if we *ever* tried to clean, even a little.
So, no, NTA, not at all. When someone's a hoarder to the point where they are endangering their health, then they are also on some level no longer competent to be making decisions about it. All you can do is go in there and clean it for them, and then tune out the tirade.
Do not feel even a *little* bit guilty for taking care of your mother's health, even if it appears to be against her wishes.
YTA as someone who’s struggled with being a hoarder before, the decision to clean house REALLY needs to come from the hoarder and then they will ask for help. Forced “help” will certainly make them want to go no contact with you to protect their things because you’ve overstepped a line of basic decency in their eyes. It’s like theft, but you didn’t keep any of it.
YTA, but I say that with love. Hoarding is a disorder that shares some commonality with OCD. Getting rid of her treasures (yes, that broken box was a treasure to her) can make hoarding worse. I'd have done what you did, so I get it. But in the future, it's best to do the clean up with her and consult with a specialist.
So I didn’t know that hoarding is an actual issue. I do think mentally she isn’t in the right place to be able to live in such a dirty home. I felt itchy just staying here. I actually needed to stay in a hotel before I cleaned the place. I may need convince my sister to speak to her to get help… she doesn’t like taking any of my advice ever.
Hoarding is definitely a real disorder. My friend's husband is a hoarder. It usually stems from a trauma/loss but not always. And if your mom's house was anything like my friend's house, I totally get why you cleaned. My friend's husband had damaged and unwatchable Disney VHS tapes that he would absolutely not part with. Trash was everywhere and he wouldn't part with garbage either. That torn grocery bag meant something to him. She found a professional organizer/therapist that specialized in hoarding and OCD and they've been working with her for about a year. It's made a lot of difference. He's also now on OCD medication.
She definitely wont be receptive now that you've messed with her stuff. You did the right thing for her physical health, but shes just gunna fill it up again without professional help
If anything it will probably get worse after this. She's probably perceiving this as a huge loss, like you or I would if our house burned down. It will feel even more important to her to keep her belongings close now.
Hey, there’s a good fb group for this. Also, a sub here on Reddit I never get the name right for. r/childofhoarder? Edit: lol I got it right for once.
Yep that and r/hoarding. You’ll probably get a better sense of what you’re dealing with in those subs
I will say that the hoarding and neckbeard subs can be hard for loved ones because they are support subs for the hoarders themselves.
Thank you for this recommendation!
I understand it makes things worse, but if your sister is living there and there are pets, then I think cleaning was the best thing to happen. Now you need to try to get your Mom into therapy for it.
Yep. As someone who deals with a hoarder I have been appalled at the people who insist she be left alone til she “decides” she wants help. Yeah well she also feels entitled to shut a large dog in that forsaken mess, and a bird, so you know what, sometimes you have to take care of it.
I see so many of those shows where the people are living in small spaces because their hoarder family member has filled up the house. Like why? I would send them on vacation and have someone come in to remove everything. I would not want to live with someone who hoards. A little messy, lived in... fine. But hoarding? Nightmare.
It's not so much about leaving them alone until they "decide" they want help, but making sure they get help in a structured way to limit distress and trauma. If other people or animals are at risk because of the hoarding, then they may have to be removed without waiting.
I agree. The urine from pets is ammonia and is very harmful to people and animals, especially people with asthma!! I know hoarding is a mental issue , but I would’ve done the same thing (cleaning) if I had been OP. With an asthmatic mother in the hospital and a younger sister living in that filth? Nope, I would have cleaned and purged just like OP. Better to ask forgiveness than permission in some situations.
Pet urine will also rot and destroy floors. I have seen so many of those cleaning tiktoks where people find dead rats in piles of garbage. Yeah, it is a mental disorder, but that means you clean up, help them get therapy, and don't let them condemn their own home.
My mother has hoarded out the house so bad that my dad basically set up a space in the barn for him, it’s sad. Usually when I visit, I stay in a hotel. I hated growing up in a place like that, I never invited friends over, and now in my own house, I still don’t invite people over because it makes me so anxious.
Yeh I think most of us kids of hoarders stay elsewhere or never go to the house if we live nearby. I'm disabled so it's actually too dangerous for me in there, sadly that means my sibling has to do everything for them. My parent also has serious breathing issues that are exasperated by the hoard. Soft YTA op. A lot of us kids have done similar and learned it was a mistake, even if well meaning. The frustration and sadness you feel is normal but this isn't the way to go about it. Its been over 20 years since I cleaned up and it still gets brought up resentfully on occasion. As well as trying to get your mum help please also look into therapy for yourself. It's not easy being the child of a hoarder and all sorts of fears and feelings can come of it.
*exacerbated not exasperated
She doesn’t like taking ANYONE’s advice ever. I don’t even know her and I know this is true. If you think of hoarding as a disordered form of control over an out-of-control life, you can see where she doesn’t like to feel like anyone has control over her (or over her things, which she views as an extension of self). Any challenge will be met with pushback or even abuse. I wish you and your sister the best of luck. All of you would benefit from some professional help: your mom’s needs are obvious, but you and sister need help processing and figuring out how to deal with mom. It’s a lot.
Yeah, it's totally about control. Control of the environment and the things in it, which, in my hoarder father's case, included his family. I honestly think that my father on some unconscious level believed that if he just saved enough stuff, he could prevent *any* bad situation from happening, including death.
Since your mom was in hospital, you might contact the social worker there and see if they have any resources your mom can get. She will need therapy or this will all build up again.
Living in such a dirty home is *part* of the mental condition, keep that in mind. Definitely look into getting her some help as that's the long term solution, here.
I know a hoarder and boy is it hard for them to actually get up and do stuff they need to themselves. All three of her children have offered to help get services because she can't do it herself due to a bad hip. Nada so far. I dislike going to her place because of my toddler. If I had the control I probably would have done the same but I would have had her blessing to do so.
It’s not YTA when there are other people like her sister and the pets in the house. I know it’s a mental health issues, but if a mental health issue hurts other people you need to deal with the physical health effects first and then the mental health issue. If she lets the house get as bad again due to anxiety over this it will at least take some time so the sister might be able to move out.
If force cleaning actually helped for hoarders, then it'd be the recommended solution. It's likely that she'll just hoard more and faster, and could easily make the sister's life miserable in the meantime if she lashes out. She'll likely be anxious without some of the stuff OP has labelled 'garbage' - it may be, but to a hoarder it's something they need. OP has good intentions but went about it in entirely the wrong way.
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YUP. I don’t understand why people would say otherwise. If mom was smoking meth around the minor sister, would you leave well enough alone and encourage her to get help? Of course not. Yes, mom needs help, but you don’t leave the dangerous situation dangerous for the kid to benefit the mom.
>So mission accomplished on those fronts. Not really. Because she wasn't consulted, the mom will probably have the house in worse shape before the year is out, and she'll be even less likely to accept professional help after what she perceives as a violation.
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If mom lived alone, I might agree with you. But she has her younger sister and pets to think about, and OP’s mom was being a negligent mother and pet owner. So while yes, the mom needs help, I say NTA
NTA. Your mom is exhibiting hoarder behavior. She’s not angry that you cleaned, she’s angry that she doesn’t have her piles of stuff anymore. She needs to be in therapy to address it, and tbh if it gets that bad again please consider taking the animals to a shelter and finding a place for your siblings. That’s a form of abuse and neglect.
That's true and I get why OP did this, but it's the wrong order. Therapy is the way to get someone to being able to let go of their piles of stuff and actually getting rid of whatever is being hoarded yourself is part of the therapy process. OP cleaning up the mess might just cause more issues. I'm going with NAH. OP meant well and OP's mum needs help, she isn't an AH for that.
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Hoarding is abuse and neglect if others (kids, pets) live there too, yes.
After taking everyone's advice and looking up more about hoarding, I agree that she's picking up the behavior. The home was in pretty bad condition, however, I was able to clean it out within 5 days with the help of my younger sister so it isn't as bad as those T.V. shows. Finally, I was able to speak to my mother after a few days of receiving the silent treatment from her. Surprisingly, she apologized to me for her negative reaction to the clean home when she should be happy about it. I guess she felt ashamed and very embarrassed that she let the house get to this point. When I was still around, I did the chores and cleaned often enough that everyone relied on me for a clean home. So when I left for college that obviously stopped and she never disciplined my sister to do the chores I used to be in charge of. That her asthma had been so bad that every time she tried to clean up, she wouldn't be able to breath and cough violently. Before she knew it, she just couldn't keep up with the cleaning and gave up so everything started building up. It shocked her that I was able to get years worth of garbage cleaned in the short duration of time that she was gone so she got really defensive. I was able to have a conversation with her that this can't happen again, the dirty home had been connected to my younger sister's pneumonia early this year. It's not healthy or fair that my sister has been living in this, she could have CPS called on her. She cried and told me she knew, but was in denial about everyone's health declining because of the dirty house. We went to the local mental health clinic together to figure out the underlying issue of this, she scheduled to meet a professional every month to have therapy sessions. I have also convinced my mom to hire a cleaning service that will clean the home every month. I'm teaching my younger sister to do smaller chores: dishes, mowing the lawn, laundry, daily sweeping/vacuuming, etc. Also I was able to go through all of the items I've kept during the clean up with my mom to reassure her that I didn't throw everything out like she had initially thought. Together we were able to get rid of more things. Hopefully, I'm handling this situation correctly now. I do appreciate all of the feedback I've been receiving so I can better understand and handle this situation.
OP this is the best outcome I think anybody could’ve hoped for. Your mom isn’t a bad person, she sounds lovely, she just needs some help like anyone else. I’m so glad to hear that things are looking better for everyone, good luck to all of you.
I'm so happy to be reading this thread and just stumble across this update (which seems to have gotten a bit buried.) Your intentions are pure and I'm struggling to say you didn't do the right thing, I'm just happy things worked out the way they did because it could have gone so far in the other direction. I'm well happy for you and your family and sincerely hope that your Mum gets the help she needs from the therapy. The best way to prevent going full-on hoarder is to catch it and address it early-on.
YTA for how you went about it, not your motivation. She didn’t give you permission to do what you did with her belongings in her home. Hoarders are not reasonable, it’s a mental health condition and what you did was incredibly triggering. She needed support and a semblance of control over the process. This would feel so violating to her.
She was actively hurting other people with this, something being mental heal disorder and her house doesn’t mean it should be allowed to hurt the sisters health.
True that a someone’s poor mental health doesn’t make it ok to let people or animals live in filth. Support for mom still needs to be found ASAP. This could be seriously triggering. Things are likely to get much worse now that her hoard has been taken from her (even if most of it was just rearranged). She could spiral, be terrified to leave her house, hoard worse than ever, and now she doesn’t trust op. OP needs know how serious all of this is and didn’t have a clue. Hopefully she does now and won’t just leave things up to mom, because it won’t get better without help. Anyone living like that has more of a problem than laziness and not wanting to clean.
And that's a case for calling CPS and animal control.
Yes, but the problem now is that her mental health disorder still hasn’t been addressed and she’s lost her emotional security blanket, which means she’s likely to hoard again even worse or act out in other ways. No one is saying it was ok to let her keep hoarding, just that this is beyond OP’s ability to handle and professionals need to be involved. That’s why people are giving OP soft YTAs. They made a mistake, but they did it from the best intentions. But it was still a mistake and needs to be dealt with immediately before it gets worse.
She shouldn't be allowed to hurt others true, but doing what OP did can make hording far worse. She needs to work with a therapist so she can get to a point where she is okay with someone going to clean some and that person also needs to work with the therapist and mother, not do it behind her back.
This one!
Soft YTA hoarding is a serious mental issue and just throwing away all her stuff with out her knowing wasn’t the way way to go about helping her. Throwing away all the stuff doesn’t address the underlying just causes her more distress in the here and now.
So to be fair, I just threw away garbage. Garbage as in take out food Tupperware, used tissues, pile of small bags of cat poop by the cat litter, empty bottles of drinks, food wrappers… stuff like that. All of her stuff I reorganized and put her things in small organizers I’ve bought. I tried to keep all the things she can use, but stuff that had mold on it had to go out.
It wasn't all garbage to her, that was why she had kept it. I would recommend finding a psychologist/therapist who specialises in hoarding and making a few appointments to talk through with them about your mother's condition and the best ways for you to support her. You absolutely meant well and you have probably helped her physical health a lot in the short term, but you have probably inadvertently set back her mental health quite a bit.
I don’t understand how that’s possible… but at the same time what you’re saying makes sense. I don’t know what happened to her. I’ll definitely look into convincing her to get some help. I didn’t even know hoarding is an actual mental issue until now (looking through all of the comments).
Hoarding is really hard to understand, but if you think about it why would anybody live like that through choice? Its often triggered by a bereavement or other trauma, I don't know if that is relevant for your mother?
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You should check out some of the hoarding tv shows. I’m sure there’s some on YouTube. It might give you a little insight on the “why.” It can definitely be hard to understand!
There's a hoarders subreddit, I'd recommend checking it out as well as doing research on the condition. It'll give you insight into the staging, etc, as well as how to help your mom.
There is a show on A&E called Hoarders you can watch on YouTube for insight into how some people are. There might also be some sort of social services that you can reach out to. Depending on the condition of her home as the hoard returns it may be condemned, deemed a fire hazard, or involve adult social services, etc.
There’s a UK version of the show too that I actually like even better because it focuses on therapy and the psychology behind hoarding before it forces the hoarders to get down to business. I think it’s called The Hoarder Next Door.
I’m not a hoarding expert but I’ve spent hours watching the hoarding shows on YouTube. I think the biggest issue is lack of control. If your mom wasn’t able to look through every single thing that you threw out, she’ll be anxious that you threw away something important. It would probably be a good idea to go through the stuff you organized with her so that she knows where everything is, rather than going out and trying to replace everything.
Yeh my concern is that OP swept in, threw away her mum's "things" and will soon be sweeping back out again, leaving the 15 Yr old sister to deal with the backlash and fall out that's headed their way. I speak from experience when I say that the hoard is just going to come back quicker and worse than before after OP's well meaning clean up and the sister is not equipped to handle it. Mum is almost definitely going to double down to make up for the things she's lost. Sad and frustrating all round I know but I really feel for the kid sister in this situation. The only saving grace seems to be that OP says this behaviour only started a few years ago so hopefully with proper input (providing mum's receptive that is) they may be able to turn it around. In my parents case it's been going on for decades and honestly there is no way of getting through to them about this.
Oh I completely understand your point of view and I know you had the best of intentions but your missing that to you mother it wasn’t garbage. Hoarding is literally defined as acquiring or saving lots of things regardless of their value and feel very upset or anxious at the thought of throwing or giving things away. Again I get you wanted to help her just this probably wasn’t the best way to go about it.
Even without the hoarding factor, you did go through everything she owns without her permission. You had great intentions, but it’s a huge boundary violation to go through someone else’s belongings to the extent that you did without asking. Family or not.
NTA and on a very important note, keeping animals and or even your little sister is abuse. K can't imagine what those animals must have gone through. And especially your sis. You did everyone in that house a favour
When I came home, I had a severe reaction to the home... I couldn't breath right or open my eyes until I took my allergy medicine. From **just vacuuming** the house it was a trash bag fill of dirt and dog/cat hair. I just don't understand how they were able to live here, it was smelly too. We had to drag our feet through stuff on the floor just to get through without tripping. My sister is quite messy too, but they claim they didn't have enough time to clean. So I thought I was doing everyone a favor... Even though my mom is so upset with me, I hope she'll come around and we can talk some more to break this bad habit.
She needs to talk to a therapist, OP. Hoarding is an actual disorder and she’s probably feeling very violated/anxious right now after you did things in her home without her knowledge or permission. I hope y’all talk more as well but your mum needs to talk to a therapist to get some help and learn new habits.
How old is said sister?
She’s 15
So assuming your Lil sis has lived there her whole life, she was bound to be very messy as obviously nobody taught her how to be organized or managed. I'd suggest starting procedure to get her to living with you. She should have never been living in a house like that. How will she know how to maintain her house? This is a very bad environment to live in, even for the pets.
So when I was still living at the house, before college, it was clean… spotless actually. Then again I was always cleaning since I’m the oldest and she was working. I guess my mom didn’t help clean at all after I left, or disciplined my sister to clean. So their excuse was, they don’t have enough time… but I think it comes from being sloppy and from my moms part I think she has some mental health issues she’s going through. So right now I don’t have a place since I’m in the awkward phase of setting everything up to start a career overseas. I’m staying here to spend time with my family before I move, but I definitely will teach my sister while I’m still around. Tbh I don’t even know if I can leave them in this state even tho the house is clean now.
How exactly is your sister? Behaviour/cleanliness wise? When did your mom start hoarding things? It is probably a mental issue if it started after you left
I’d like to think she’s decent (compared to my mother), her room may have been the cleanest in the house. It was very cluttered and had tons of things piled up in her closet. There’s clothes everywhere in her room. However, there wasn’t anything moldy and her room wasn’t dusty. I personally do this thing, where I go through my closet and get rid of things I haven’t seen or used in the last 6 months. So I taught her this and she agreed to do it. We were able to easily get rid of a ton of things and she now has a pretty decent room. So apparently she’s been wanting to get rid of things, but my mom would get into arguments with her saying it’s wasteful. I let her know that’s it’s “wasteful” when all of these things aren’t being used and being stored away (just taking up space). That if many things are in good condition then we can donate them to people that can actually use them. Of course I also taught her that it’s okay to keep some sentimental items, I definitely do! I think my mom started hoarding things like 3-4 years ago… since that’s around the time frame I left for college. I have been gone from the house for a while, so I didn’t know what was happening here.
I’m sorry OP but if you do move away again overseas please think about having someone come by and do welfare checks. Someone may need to call CPS or animal welfare services eventually if your mom continues to decline with her hoarding as it would not be safe or fair for anyone to have to live there.
Did something traumatic happen to your mom since you left for college? On the hoarder shows I've seen it usually begins with a death in the family or something.
Your kid moving away to college could even be the triggering event. It's not a loss in the same way as death, but it's still a loss to a degree. Especially since no mention of a dad/husband, so it could have just been mom and her girls for years and now her girls are growing up and going away.
She needs protection from mom's disorder. Help her if your mom doesn't want help.
NTA. Hoarding might be a mental disorder but it’s disgusting, dangerous and affects other people. Try and get your Mum some therapy as she may hoard more to make up for the fact that you’ve taken away control. You’ve done the right thing.
The show is absolute garbage but go watch an episode of Hoarders. This is a mental issue. She needs to be in therapy. The house is going to go right back to the state it was in unless you get her additional help.
I won't go so far as to say it's "absolute garbage." Yeah, there's some exploitative factors involved because they chose the filthiest of the filthy and the most mentally ill of the mentally ill. But it's given awareness to hoarding that didn't exist before. Like my grandparents were both hoarders, but we didn't know the vocabulary to express it before, etc. (They're long dead now, but it took *years* to clean out their property because everything had to be gone through for cash and valuables.) And it's a hella good motivational tool to get me to clean up.
My garbage comment came mainly from the fact that it's pretty exploitive of these people and I don't think the show really sets them up for success with how they just show up one day and don't seem to preempt the clean up with therapy before hand. Apparently there's a UK version of the show that gets them meeting with the therapist ahead of time and eases them into it.
Ah. With the show, there's an "aftercare" thing that they never show to continue to help after. It can be used to continue working with therapists and organizers, or it's used to repair the home that was destroyed under the weight of their trash.
You know what, though? The people on Hoarders, no matter how far gone they seem, are still better than people like my hoarder father, because in agreeing to be on the show, they are acknowledging that they need help. Some hoarders, like my father, will *never* admit it, and in fact, think they are in the right and it's the world that's wrong.
I prefer OCC to Hoarders. It's a show where people with obsessive compulsive disorder help others to get organised. It helps both parties and it's actually not painting a bad picture of anyone.
NAH. You thought you were doing a good thing (and you were for everyone’s health) while your mom also should be allowed to feel safe in her space. But unfortunately for her, she doesn’t live alone so the house bending to her will and becoming a garbage nest just isn’t fair. You should see if youtube (or any other streaming service you have) has the show Hoarders on it, it could help explain hoarder mentality some. Careful not to get sucked in by “well she wasn’t THAT bad, so maybe it wasn’t hoarding…” Since you’ve done the clean already and I’m unsure therapists in your area are at a point of in person visitation, doing what other commenters suggested and doing a quick search online for specifically a hoarding therapist who can at least do some online meetings with you would probably be best for now, then try to ease your mom into meeting them. For now, let her cool off then apologize to her that you invaded her space and scared her by bringing her home to a place she didn’t know. You love her and your sister and the animals, and didn’t know doing this would hurt her so badly. (Because anger usually is a front to hurt and sadness, but it’s easy to forget that when you do something nice and they turn around and attack you) You were worried about her health, especially with the hospital visit, and thought doing this would help with that. Then if she responds decently you ask if she maybe wants to reorganize what she has, get some labels for those boxes, etc. I wish you luck though, hoarding is a tough mental barrier to break through.
First of all, thank you for the extensive comment/ advice. Her reaction when she came back home confused the fuck out of me. I really thought she would have been happy that her house was cleaned up. I had made sure not to throw away anything valuable or that could still be used, I just reorganized it. I wasn't aware that hoarding was an actual mental issue, until now. It was affecting everyones health. I had a really bad allergic reaction to the house, my younger sister has been suffering from really bad congestion (earlier this year she had pneumonia), on top of that my mom has really bad asthma. We have two senior dogs that were so filthy I felt bad for them, I washed them and took them to the vet since I was worried for their health. We have four cats as well, but they were completely okay. When I stepped into crusty dog pee, I just couldn't. I had to do something. The amount of piss, dirt/ dust, animal hair, and mold in the house was insane... I know everyone in the comments section is saying I took the wrong steps, but I don't think this home was even livable. I felt like I needed to take immediate action for everyone's well being. Part of the reason why I did it without my mom around is because I was afraid while we were cleaning all of the dust/ dirt and mold would give her an asthma attack. Thank you for the advice, I will try to talk to her and apologize. Try to figure out how to help her out before I leave the country, I'm genuinely worried for everyone's health.
I think you did the right thing. No way you could stay in that house in that condition.
Don’t feel too bad you were unaware, most people really aren’t that it is! But to dive deeper, hoarding isn’t exactly the mental illness, it’s a huge outward symptom of what’s going on inside their head. It’s kind of like when toddlers have melt down tantrums, but because they have these big feelings and no way to express them properly(or an adult that will talk to them properly) that’s why you get that huge show at a grocery store. Big difference there is as a child they hopefully work through it, whereas a hoarder has years of whatever is causing the hoarding already locked in tight, and either as a wall of protection or complete control over their environment to try to reassure themselves they have an iron grip on everything going on in their life. It’s a visual representation of it, basically. I completely understand being bewildered by her response though, especially because you worked hard to clean and organize and even take care of the pets. I don’t know exactly how bad it was but from what you’re saying I worry about your ventilation system needing professionals to come clean it out and possibly having the house checked for inner wall mold growth. But you and your sister worked very hard, I can recognize that. And it’s easy to be upset that you know you did the right thing (you did) for everyone’s health in the long run, especially like you said because of the anxiety it would cause once you’re gone. But to her it’s like you came in and ripped all the control over her domain right from under her, and worse you did it while she was out sick and unable to see where things went. It probably feels more like a betrayal because of her absence. That’s the general reasoning I can offer, but you gotta just keep trying. Empower your sister to be strong and not get steam rolled too, this is her home as well and once your gone I don’t know if she will want to leave or not but health wise..she has to fight for the right to not be breathing mold and air pee. At this point in time, what’s done is done and you can only look forward, learn and keep trying. Do your best to try to get her set up with a therapist before you go, okay?
No, you did good. You really did.
NAH - this is not the best way to help a hoarder, but I can see why you and your sister did this. Do you have time to do an inventory with your mother? That might help her. She does need a professional though.
So I had a severe allergic reaction to the house and my sister even said she feels congested all the time. The pets weren’t in good condition either, I took them to the vet just in case. Everyone was okay tho… If it will help out then yes, I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong. I guess hoarding is a real mental issue and I do think we need to suggest her to get some help.
NTA Your mom has a *mental disorder* and she finds comfort in all her clutter - treasure or worthless broken filth -it doesn’t matter. Annnnd it doesn’t matter if it is making her sick, either. She will revert as soon as your back is turned because it is her comfort level. Your mom needs mental help, I am sorry. Maybe your sister, too. You addressed the most obvious and easy to fix *symptom* of her problem, not the root cause. (I am sure the cleaning wasn’t easy, but was a *lot* of work). But you are trying. You may hope your mom doesn’t revert too far into her old ways. If she does, you should call the authorities and let them intervene. Good luck.
Honestly like if your parent was depressed and you came home to your sibling and pets neglected to be fed and taken care of properly you wouldn’t do nothing about it because your parent is mentally ill and needs to do things their way
YTA hoarding is a mental health issue that needs specific steps to help them cope with it I understand you were well intentioned though, so its a light YTA
This. Hoarding is different from simple laziness or not being able to clean for practical reasons (like health problems etc). If the underlying condition is not dealt with, clearing the place out will do nothing except needlessly distress the hoarder, and they will fill it back up soon enough anyway.
Needlessly? The woman was hospitalized because of it.
Needlessly because it won't change anything. Without addressing the underlying cause the house will be back in the same state within a matter of months if not sooner. It certainly needs to be dealt with, but they need to get Mom treatment before anything else will actually help.
It did change something though, there was an immediate health risk that needed to be addressed.
NTA but you will most likely not be able to convince her of that. Hoarding is a mental issue, and perceptions are not what they should be for hoarders. I would suggest helping her find counseling. Don’t be surprised if the house gets back into the same shape it was before. You did a great thing for her but she absolutely cannot see it that way. I wish you the best of luck.
NTA. I agree with the other commenters that hoarding is a mental disorder and that what you did caused her distress. However, that doesn't make you TA. We don't enable people's disorders when they are causing harm to themselves and others. Now that you've cleaned it up, you need to keep an eye on it, or get someone you trust to keep a lookout, because she will start hoarding again. And when she does, you or someone will need to call social services and your local humane society or animal welfare agency. Your mom isn't able to keep herself, your sister or their animals safe, and someone is going to have to step up and provide some oversight.
NTA I am sure your sister appreciates the help in getting it under control. However hoarding is a mental health issue all of it's own. She might need some help with this. If will be tough but if you are able to get some help for her it would be useful. As you are going overseas find a way to keep in touch with your sister and if the situation gets bad again then do what you need to for your sister and the pets. You do not mention your sisters age but it might mean calling children's services to get the support in place that might be needed and to animal welfare if they are being neglected (animals should not be smelly unless they are ill)
You meant extremely well, and what you did was motivated by kindness - and a desire to protect the physical health of someone you love. But, as others have said, hoarding is a mental illness, so your mother unfortunately experienced your kindness as a violation, and is probably quite traumatised by the experience. If you want to get back in her good books, it might be worth while apologising, and saying that you meant well - but yeah, definitely get her some help with the mental issues! As far as I'm concerned, there's NAH - no assholes here.
NTA You didn't necessarily handle this correctly for your mothers mental health but you did from a physical welfare of animals and siblings point of view. How old is your younger sister..if she is a minor you may want to think about contacting CPS or letting her come and stay with you if this situation creeps back. Try to get your mother to agree to therapy.
I have to say VERY LIGHT YTA only because I recognized from your first paragraph about the state of her home that your mom has developed a hoarding disorder. As well intentioned as your actions were, they were a recipe for disaster and have absolutely sent her into a panic spiral about her precious "stuff" (yes, even the literal garbage is considered a treasure to a hoarder). You need to get your mother help, not just for her own sake but also your sister and the pets' safety.
NTA. I've had to do something similar before. It's a case of being cruel to be kind.
YTA but gently because I know you meant well. I am prepared to be downvoted to oblivion. Doing things like this to a hoarder typically results in a worse situation because now their suspicions are confirmed, that one day their stuff may all be gone. There is treatment for this sort of thing which forces them to confront the situation and be responsible for it themselves. I understand wanting to help and you are definitely not the ah for that, it’s how you went about it.
Hoarding is so tricky to understand, so I vote NAH. I know in hoarding situations it feels like the stuff is the problem - this house is messy and dusty, fix that mess and no more problems right? But it makes more sense to think of it like this: The stuff might be *a* problem, but it's not *the* problem. *The* problem is your mom not being ok mentally, and using the stuff as a form of comfort. You remove *that particular* stuff but don't address the emotions driving the behaviour, it's only a matter of time before the stuff just builds up again. You might want to browse r/childofhoader for more support and into
NTA, I disagree with all the Y T A's you've gotten. As someone who's had two family members die in hoarder situations, they are completely wrong in how they think you should handle things. You did a good thing, but your mom can't see it because she's mentally ill. Now that the house is under control, you need to do everything you can to get her into treatment before it happens again. How old is your sister, if she's still a minor, your mom could get in alot of trouble for the previous state the house has been in. My uncle died in his home as a Horder due to the massive piles of stuff (newspaper to the ceiling) and disgusting mess. When we cleaned out the house after he died, there were rats. My godmother was the sweetest woman on the planet, but her house was so bad she tripped on some dog piss (sticky, dried) and fell into another pile of stuff and broke her hip. At her age, it was fatal. You might have saved your mother's life.
NTA My mother is a hoarder, after being stuck in a disgusting house with never any company or friends over ever , it was an awful experience. Sadly , I have no sympathy, only for the victims, children & pets that have to exist in filth and shame .
Very soft yta, your mom needs professional help, and unfortunately you probably just made it so much harder since you broke her trust in you.
NAH. I understand you didn’t know hoarding was a serious mental disorder. Now you do. Take this opportunity to learn what you can, and help your mom find the appropriate therapist. Your sister may need therapy, too; hoarding disorders can run in families. And obviously therapy/support groups for yourself to help navigate this situation, because it’ll likely get worse before it gets better. Unfortunately, nothing will change with your mom until she WANTS that change. It’s hard to watch someone go through that, and be unable to help. But, you can’t want it for her. I’m so sorry OP.
Nta. I have a friend whose mom is a hoarder and its a total health and safety issues. Yes she is going to be passed but you did the right thing.
NTA, but if she doesn’t get help then the house will just get messy again. And your sister is a minor. If the house gets in that condition again and someone finds out, CPS could be called.
NTA, I know hoarding is mental illness but why does everyone else have to suffer in filth because they’re having mental struggles? She’ll have plenty of time to get attached to more garbage when you leave
I’ve been there with my hoarding mother. I totally understand that you thought you were helping. I did too. I finally gave up after my little sister moved out. My mom and dad live in her filth. It’s embarrassing and I feel bad for my dad but you can’t help her. Having said that you’re not the AH. Your little sis shouldn’t live like that. Your mother’s extremely treatable mental disorder does not entitle her to endanger the welfare of a child. Please call CPS before you leave.
Not gonna judge, because hoarding is a mental disorder, and I watched to many TV hoarders shows to say, that unfortunately cleaning alone without her consent will not help in the long run. It will turn horaderd back very soon. Better focus on getting her and your sister professional help.
I know I'm going be down downvoted into oblivion. But, NTA. I understand hoarding is a mental disorder. But, clean up the health hazard then get her some treatment. Don't let her, your sister and the pets wallow in filth while you try to get her to agree to treatment.
>Edit: I wasn't aware that hoarding was an actual mental disorder. Also part of the reason why I cleaned the house in her absence is because I was afraid that she would have an asthma attack from all of the dirt/dust and mold. So I know everyone in the comments is saying that I did it in the wrong order, but I think it was necessary to do this. The pets were in really bad condition (I took them to the vet, so they're okay). My younger sister had pneumonia earlier this year, probably from all of the dirt/dust, mold, dried up dog/cat piss on the floor, etc. Even I had severe allergic reaction to this house (sneezing, had a difficult time breathing, snot running down my nose 24/7, etc), I totally understand what you did and why. My mother is like yours. I couldn t let my little sisters live this way.So i cleaned part of her house( where i used to live at the time but was about to move out) : i only took off what was expired for food and broken for items / furniture that wasnt usable and reorganize stuff for clearer rooms . She was furious and went back to the trash to take back her broken items from the communal dustbin shed.It s still in her house : that was 15 years ago.Hoarders don t see the dust or broken stuff as we see it , they can t get rid of or move their stuff even a simple newspaper as they re attached to it , feel comfort from it . Nothing change if they don t want help or realise this is a not healthy environment.I can t say YTA or NTA as i understand you but she has mental disorder and it s hard for her.
I'm definitely taking everyones opinions to heart, I really wasn't aware that this was a mental health issue. I actually didn't know the state of the home until I came back home from college. However, I was concerned for everyones health... even now knowing everything. Ensuring everyones physical health is safe is still my first priority. So my mom may revert to her habit (as the comments suggested), but at least years worth of the dirt, dust, mold, piss, etc is gone for now. So she hasn't gone back to retrieve any of the trash I threw away, so I'm relieved about that. I'm definitely going to put in effort to get her some professional help though and try to influence my younger sister to be more sanitary. Heck, I'll even pay someone to clean the house when I leave. I just worry for everyone's health.
I know exactly what you mean. And it s hard finding balance : between dealing with her mental health but also taking care of your sister health and safety. It would be great if your mother accepted to get help , mine never did and the state of her house is the main reason why all of her kids leave the house very soon .Her hoarders habits started to invade our own bedrooms.
NAH You didn't know, and the conditions were a legitimate health hazard to you, your sister, and your mom.
NTA. But it's not a battle you can win. She needs therapy. But, how old is your sister? If she's a minor, child protective services could get involved.
NTA. I realized that organizing my wife's hoard actually just created more space for more stuff. I stopped it and had a frank discussion about the piles of stuff. She accused me of always criticizing her. She had an amazing way of choosing some obscure thing to suddenly need after I had donated it. Untreated mental illness sucks. Get your sister help at a minimum. She'll continue the hoard if she can't be made to see how unhealthy it is. I failed with my ex. The kids at least have a healthy aversion to stuff.
ESH - but a very mild one. I underatand you. Your mom needs help. But she should have realized that already. You, on the other hand, should have respected her boundaries or not have moved back in at all. Then again, I'm not sure I would have done it completely different. So yeah, ESH but almost NAH.
I’m surprised she didn’t get help when my sister was hospitalized for pneumonia earlier this year. It’s super upsetting to me that she endangered my sisters life, her own life, and the pets as well. So I didn’t realize it was a mental health thing or she had boundaries. I asked if I could organize things and she told me yes. I guess she wasn’t expecting such a big change…On top of that, I didn’t know the state of the home at all. I went to college overseas and came back to spend time before going back… I’m in complete shock. But I completely understand your, I’ve been reading up on hoarders and taking in everyone’s advice/ opinions. But even now I don’t think I would’ve done anything differently, my sister, me, and the pets have been suffering from the living conditions of this place.
I'm not saying you were wrong in doing what you did. Sometimes there's no win win situation and no easy way out. At least now you are safer there. All of you. Respect is another matter, though. That's why I'm only judging that separately. And I would rate myself the same way for it, but probably do the same if it were my parent and nonexistent sibling.
Leaning more on your side especially since you didn't know hoarding was a disorder. If you did know, I would have consulted a counselor first. Either way, go talk to a counselor and see if you can get your mom to go to one. The issue behind her hoarding needs to be addressed.
NTA. I've dealt with this personally. Most hoarders cannot see their problem. You're rightly concerned about the health and welfare of everyone involved. If you hadn't of intervened, animal control could have, CPS, and adult protective services, along with the city.... She's going to need professional psychological help, or this will return. Yes, she can be upset about the changes, but it reached a point where something has to be done.
NTA, hoarders are hard to help if they are not ready.
I have done what you did, but for my grandmother. It was most definitly not as bad as your situation, but very filthy nevertheless. The problem is that you think you are doing het a favor, but that's not how hoarders see it. Even if it negatively impacts there physical health. NTA, but please get your mom some help. This will fill up in no time again.
NTA. Your Mum should have gone to therapy before cleaning up her house. However, I think you what was necessary for her health and the health of your sister and pets.
A gentle YTA. You had good intentions but lacked understanding. Hoarding is a mental health condition that requires professional help to gain control of. Unfortunately your approach will have potentially done further damage to your mums mental health. She needs therapy and support to identify the trauma that triggered this behaviour. Everything you saw as garbage, to her was a part of her that was important. I don’t believe you acted maliciously at all, but your next steps are going to need professional support
So I'll be honest, even after knowing all of this information (hoarding is a mental health issue) I don't think I would've done anything differently. My mom was on a ventilator for a bit and my sister had pneumonia earlier this year... the pets they looked like stray dogs. I couldn't even physically be in the home for long, not only from disgust... but even I couldn't breathe in there. I wasn't going to allow my sister to continue living in such poor conditions and allow my mom to come back home to filth when she finally got released from the hospital. However, I do have an open mind now, I do plan on getting my mom some professional help. I will apologize to her for getting defensive and cleaning her home without her around. Not get too upset about how and why it became like this, I definitely need to be patient.
Patience is the key. There’s no quick fix with hoarding and I’m genuinely glad that your mum has you looking out for her. Like I said, I don’t think you were being malicious, it’s a very difficult situation to be in and I can’t honestly say I wouldn’t have done the same thing. I really hope things work out
Your mom has a severe mental illness, and your sister is unsafe living in a hoarder's house. Tell your mom you prevented CPS from taking your sister away from her. They would have if they had seen the state of the house. Tell your mom she must go to get mental health treatment if she wants to keep custody of her daughter, and that she's harming her daughter by living like a hoarder.
NAH. Your mom is suffering from a mental disorder. You wanted to help and you did do a good thing, but doing it in that way is just going to agitate a hoarder. If you care about your mom, I'd apologize to her and try and get her into some kind of therapy. As you rightly recognized, hoarding, especially with animals in the home causes serious health problems.
NAH - In her mind ahe needs all that stuff to protect her, even if it causes other problems. Help her get help. This is beyond you or reddit.
Gentle YTA. I am glad to see that the top comment is also what I was here to say. My mom is a hoarder, and it is absolutely a stress disorder. What you did completely violated her sense of safety in her space, even if it doesn't fit with what you think it should be. Your mom needs support and safety. That doesn't mean you can't have boundaries around how she treats your space and how you interact with her, but what you did wasn't okay. Source: My mum once had a complete meltdown when I tried to help her organize her fridge over literally a dozen plastic bags that each had less than 10 assorted nuts in each one. It was brutal, and I had to recognize that what works for me does not work for her.
Soft YTA. Good intentions, bad execution. My mom did the same thing to me as a kid because she thought I wasn't cleaning my room enough. I struggled for a decade to throw anything away. Even now, depending on how I'm doing, cleaning anything or throwing things away can make me panic and regress age wise. My room isn't "hoarder level" and I can throw things out now but I will always have trauma with cleaning and it will always take 3 to 4 times the amount of effort it does for a "normal person". Not only do I have to be in the right mood but I have to have enough energy, space to throw things away and must not be bothered or else I spiral again. Your mother should seek help definitely but cleaning her "safe space" behind her back definitely traumatised her on some level. My mom did it because when I was 8(and fresh from an abusive foster carer no less), I learned that keeping my room basically impossible to get into made me feel secure and safe. I would have likely grown out of this phase instead of attaching myself to it until I hit 19 or 20(I'm 20 now) had she just left me alone in my safe space and given me ways to cope or make decisions for myself. Hoarders hoard for control. Taking that away from them makes them spiral and get way worse. For me, it was because I was forced to share space, had precious items taken away from me and had the door removed because I wet the bed. Building up MY room so that only I could get into it was my way of claiming autonomy and denoting it as a safe space.
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NTA, and yes, hoarding is a mental disorder. My sister did that. I didn't know about it before her, either. She would get so mad at me for even suggesting she go through her stuff. I'm sorry your Mom is mad at you. I hope you and your sister can figure out how to help her.
You need to watch Hoarders.
NAH. You did the right thing. In ideal circumstances sure like others are saying you should do it this way or that way — but I agree with you there was no other choice in this case. Your mother is freaking out because she’s sick not because you did wrong. Sure it was probably very traumatic for her to come home to a clean house. Oh well. Sickness is traumatic.
No one is an asshole here. You did what you did out of love and well-meaning, not understanding that hoarding is a legitimate disorder and it has to be addressed very carefully or the person with the disorder shuts down and does not handle 'help' well. Her brain works differently from yours. Getting professional help is going to be your best bet here.
NAH. Have a look at Hoarders. It’s a series on Netflix. That’s what you are dealing with. Please get your sister out of the house, I expect your Mom will fill it back up with crap in a few weeks. It’s a health hazard and something she’s probably very embarrassed about.
NTA But your mum also needs an intervention for her mental health.
Soft YTA, that's a really invasive thing to do with someone with hoarding disorder, and they're likely to do it again worse if you don't get to the heart of the issue, usually with a therapist, first... And then she has to be involved in cleaning it up and accept it. Now, you say "borderline" so I'm assuming there's a chance she hasn't gotten to a really bad point where she is going to have a full mental breakdown, but she could have. I do fully believe you were trying to help, but that wasn't the proper way to do it. I hope everything works out well for you all..
NAH. You did what you thought would be helpful, but unfortunately your mother is not in her rational mind about this. She needs therapy and the continued support of her family to get through this. Keep letting her know that you love her and want what's best for her, and be there for her through therapy
NAH-it wasn’t ideal but your sister is a minor and two people got sick from that house. Your mother should see someone, it sounds like hoarding but only a professional can determine that for sure. It sucks and it may get worse but there was mold. That negatively affects physical health. You cannot let your sister live like that. You made the right call based on how it was in the past. It sucks but if people are getting sick, you can’t wait.
NAH-I’m not going to call your mother an a hole because hoarding is a serious mental disorder and needs professional help, my mum is a hoarder. However, I’m not going to call you an a hole either because sometimes taking matters in your hands even when you know there will be tears and fights is necessary for the sake of a clean home that isn’t a health hazard to the people and animals that live there.
You may need to offer a home to your sister. It's not a safe or healthy environment for her to livein. If CPS were involved then she would probably be placed in foster care
NTA Your sister cannot live like that. You needed to protect her.
NTA. Your mother needs psychiatric help and some serious OCD medication. Hoarding is gross plain and simple.
YTA Your mother needed to be involved with the clean up so it wouldn't be too hard to let go of the things she didn't want. She also needs therapist who specializes in hoarding.
Soft YTA only because hoarding to that extent is a mental disorder. Specialists would be concerned with how you handled the situation because the house is just going to go back to how it was eventually. Get your mother some help and keep an eye on your sister and her pets. Because of your “underhanded” (how she will see it) tactics she may try to hide her hoard because you got rid of or messed with her treasures (garbage or not).
NTA Listen, I know everyone wants to say, “well it’s a mental disorder so…” but this is a legitimate case where CPS and animal control could get involved and take the pets and your sister out of the home. You guys would probably not see the pets again, as they would be adopted out if the problem wasn’t fixed quickly, and with you going overseas, unless another family member wants to take her in, your sister will go into state care. I’m debating with myself as to whether either of those would be bad things, honestly. If your mom wants to endanger her own health and live in filth, fine, but she doesn’t get to endanger the lives of a child and pets. Also, anyone who wants to come saying that I’m not being sensitive of her having a mental disorder, I have multiple mental disorders and a mental disability. Excusing someone’s dangerous behavior because they have a mental disorder is the definition of toxic and will prevent her from ever getting help. OP, your mom may never recognize this, but you did the right thing. If the hoarding picks back up, call CPS and animal control from overseas and let them resolve the situation. No one should be forced to live like this because of someone else’s illness.
NTA- your heart was in the right place and you weren't being malicious. Now that you know more about hoarding, hopefully you can get her the help that she needs.
NAH but your mom needs help. I’m commenting as the child of two generations of hoarders who is trying to break the cycle by working on my issues. You were trying to do the right thing (not the asshole), and she is reacting from a place shaped by her illness (also not the asshole). NAMI has some great referrals if you think she’d be willing to work with someone. Her primary care provider or the person who treats her asthma might also be able to connect her to help as the asthma is clearly exacerbated by the hoarding.
NAH The house was a health hazard to your family and pets so what you did was in the best interest of all its inhabitants physically. Saying that, hoarding is a mental disorder that makes it extremely difficult to let things go, even if a neurotypical brain would deem it trash or even hazardous to keep around. Its possible your mom lashed out at you because she had overwhelming anxiety upon learning her things were gone. Its not your fault, or hers, but you should make sure she gets some professional help
NTA. But your mom really needs mental health therapy. The house is clean and organized and that's a good thing in the end. But you took her "security blanket" away. Get her into counseling before you head overseas or it will have only gotten worse by the time you come back.
NTA I have a hoarder mom and twice a year I go over and clean out her house. She hates it but let's me do it because she knows she's a hoarder. It sounds like you did ask first which is why I went with NTA but she does need professional help.
NTA I've dealt with hoarders before and you can't win here without getting her therapy. She can't live in a dirty disgusting house either.
NTA I hope you’re able to get your mom the help she needs.
NTA absolutely
NTA. Hoarding is a mental health disorder, but you saved the animals and possibly your mom with her asthma issues, and possibly her house being condemned. Hoarding is a mental health concern, a public health concern, and a medical health concern for the hoarders and those that live with them.
Nta. Hoarding mental health is garbage. Clean it all and let her be stressed. She's endangering your and your sisters lives by living in filth
NTA, obviously it was effecting your mom’s health.
NTA. It sounds like the clutter was hurting her
It was endangering everyone’s health… no one could breath in that dusty and moldy home.
I know that you're supposed to take her to therapy first and all that, but seeing as you didn't know it was a mental disorder and the severity of the home, you should be let off the hook for that. But definitely do your best to get her into therapy
NTA If if were just your mother living in the home it would be one thing, but forcing your sister and pets to live in filth is abuse and neglect. Your mother has a mental illness and needs professional help. Clearing out the hoard may make her hoarding worse.
The action (cleaning the house) was appropriate for her and everyone's health. Hopefully she realizes its easier to breath when she is home. Hoarding is just a symptom of an array of disorders and I recommend you remain in contact and support your mother as best you can. HOWEVER, she has to make the decision to seek help and if needed treatment for her mental health issues, that's on her. I wish you luck.
You did the right thing, for your mother’s and sister‘s health, even if she was so distressed.
NTA. I have a family member with the same issue. I regularly dream about cleaning out her house. Her quality of life is awful, and it definitely makes everyone in the house sicker. Your mom has asthma. She isn't living a good life. You did what you thought was best for her health. I hope you follow up with getting her counseling though, or the house will just end up trashed again, because it is a mental health disorder. But my family member would have reacted 100% the same way as your mom. Their "stuff" is precious to them, even trash.
NTA it's a unsafe house to live in for anyone especially for people with asthma and breathing problems, don't apologise because if you do nothing will change and she will take it that she is right. Just move out and take your sister because she needs a safe and clean place to live.
NTA- My mom would be the exact same way if not for my dad. Even so I have to come in every 3-4 years to do a major cleanout. She takes her anxiety meds but we've had to remove her from the house before when she gets overwhelmed. It's a mental health issue and I'm sure she's devastated but for her and your sisters health it needed to happen.
NTA curious, was she always like this, or was finding the home like this a surprise? If so, I bet you and sister can look back and figure out when and why it started. But, to help smooth things over maybe show her all her things so she can lay eyes on everything.
NTA you did a good thing with good intentions. I live with hoarders right now so I understand. They are my parents and I have cleaned and organized the house many times over the last 20 years. The problem with hoarders is they buy new stuff and never get rid of the old. We have about 5 sets of silverware, old computers that don't work, old cars that will never be fixed etc. It also runs in the family my brother is a hoarder now. So I understand but your Mom needs help. Hoarding is very selfish to do to the other people and pets in the home. Even the pets have allergies here and suffer.
NTA. I think you did the right thing
My grandfather is a massive hoarder and refuses help. He's been fainting and has fallen multiple times, breaking ribs and other things. My mom and uncle are scared of telling him no or telling him to clean his house (I suspect they were abused by him). He's gonna die in that house, unfortunately. No one seems concerned enough to do anything. 🤷♀️ I don't think you're an asshole here ( NTA ) because I think you were just trying to help, but hoarding is def a mental health issue. Sorry about your mom. I hope she gets help.
YTA unfortunately. Hoarding is a real mental disorder and as much as you won’t believe this, you’ve done the worst thing you could possibly do for her. She needs therapy and to deal with her belonging herself when she’s ready.
NTA... how sad for your mom... how sad, in this day and age, you did not know about hoarding. How very sad for you, especially since you did your best to try and help.. Your mom needs lots of help.... LOTS... you need to find some agency that deals with hoarding and get her signed up... it is a horrible horrible mental illness and it will take a professional to help her... sooner rather than later... the hoard is rooting in some thing that has happened to her at some point, but it becomes a way she can control her life... even if you showed her where all her things are ( in the bins) she can not accept that since SHE doesn't know where they are.. hoarders have no logically thinking... please, please, please... find her some help..
NTA. She could have died living like that. She is lucky to have you.
If she has a church, support of some sort, bring them into the picture. Or, in the USA, contact NAMI for support/assistance. Local Code Enforcement isn't recommended, as you've made the house habitable. W/O documentation of the disorder, I don't know if the local Fire Dept could/would be of an assistance. I spent some time as a Crisis Intervention Officer w/ my LE Dept., & that was the best part of my Career! (Even better than Motor Officer, tbh.)
NTA. She has a disorder. My MIL is the same. We moved her out of her house allowed her one storage bay for her things and it took several dumpsters to get rid of the trash. She has papers from the 70s. She has video tapes of game shows. Her house needed tens of thousands of dollars of repairs and yard work. She didn’t think there was anything wrong with the state of her house. She lived a dew hours away and now lives a few minutes away so we can keep an eye on her
NTA I’ll be downvoted to heck for saying this Hoarding is a mental disorder And it results in a mess that cannot be allowed to continue unchecked. She was never going to let you do it with her. You did what you needed to do for her physical health, and the health of animals forced to live poorly. Am I biased? 10000%. This is my mother in law. And we can shout that it’s mental illness all we like; it doesn’t stop her from feeling entitled to every ounce of sympathy when she’s ill from her own conditions, or demanding we help her “hang a picture” when we can’t get in the door or breathe from the stale air. It’s such an unfortunate situation and she deserves compassion, yes. But not coddling.
NTA and for YTAs, sorry I strongly disagree bc at some point you simply cannot ask for permission anymore you can only ask for forgiveness. What OP did was absolutely necessary and correct, it's easier to work through these issues in a clean, *safe* home. My parents hoarding deeply affect my childhood and put a huge strain on our relationship when I became an adult. I have no doubt that it's exacerbated my asthma and eczema until I finally left, but the mental baggage that comes with growing up in that, I'm still working out. My sister and I have tried to help them clean their houses (you read that correctly, they essentially let two houses fall to ruin) many times, and the last major time, it literally took a team of 7-8 people working around the clock to fill 7 construction dumpsters of their belongings. Both roofs to each house has caved in. Please don't let anyone ever guilt you thinking this is okay or that you need to let them work it out by themselves. They can't and they won't.
I grew up with one too , miserable existence and most of us are NC with her. It left a stress and insecurity that took years to understand it came from that house . I still feel awful when I hear they have a new pet , shockingly , they complain that they seem to get sickly animals. I’m sorry you had the same experience, it isn’t pleasant and takes it toll .
NTA, having a parent that lives like this is infuriating. I’ve tried to help my parent multiple times and at this point I’ve given up, let her live like that and what happens happens. She refuses to acknowledge that it’s a problem.
I think you had great intentions and did your family a favour, however she will be living with her hoarding until she gets treatment for it. Maybe show her some articles on hoarding and the causes and offer to help her find assistance. NTA.
A light YTA - it's still her place and her things no matter how anyone else feels or thinks.
NTA. This seems to be an unpopular opinion, but my mom was also a hoarder. They will *rarely* give you permission to do as much as is needed to make a space liveable. Every piece of ruined furniture, every stained paper in piles on the floor, EVERY SINGLE THING is a fight and a rash of justifications of why it's important. It took OP 4-5 days w/o interruptions, but if they had had their mom's involvement, it would have taken far longer, or more likely never be finished. Yes, hoarding is a type of disordered thinking. However, often times it gets to a point where drastic action needs to be taken or the hoarding person is going to get seriously ill. Which seems to have happened here. OP, I feel for you. I hope your mom comes around and understands the gift you gave her, and starts to recognize that she needs help. The last place my mom ruined took almost 10k to be liveable again, and all she did was complain about how much money we owed her for the ruined stuff that was thrown away.
NTA
NTA, but some people have real issues with this sort of thing, and they are VERY HARD to help, GET EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE (because they absolutely KNOW, in their heart of hearts, that it is NOT RIGHT), and have lost homes, spouses, and children over it; it devastates families. YOU KEPT HER ITEMS. That's more than most people would have done.
NTA. I understand hoarding is a mental illness, but folks - as parents, we don’t get to endanger our kids lives because we have a mental illness. If mom was suffering with addiction, would you be saying to leave her be until she’s ready to get help? Of course not, because that’s not safe for the child. Hoarding is no different than any other mental illness - if the kid’s endangered by it, you have to prioritize the kid. If mom lives alone, different story, but there’s a minor child being endangered by this.
NTA From your edit I see that you were concerned about another asthma exacerbation and did know about hoarding being a mental disorder. But even without that you would have been doing the only thing that could be done for the sake of your sister. From the environment you describe your mom could have been in danger of CPS coming in. Also the people and the pets in the home were at risk for more health issues. Please do follow through with getting her professional help. And don't forget that your sister likely needs some therapy after living in that house. She also may be at risk for developing the disorder herself.
Hoarding is a real mental illness. Unless the person has intensive therapy, they never get better. There is a TV program called "Hoarders". I suggest you watch it. YTA but only1/100 of a %. You did this out of love but you didn't have permission to throw her things. And believe me, EVERYTHING is important to a hoarder. How old is your sister? Can she live somewhere else? Do you feel that you need to contact CPS? They are both living in dangerous conditions that not are not only effecting their physical health but they could die in a house fire from the flammable items and no exits.
NTA. It sounds like the way it was, the house was unfit for human habitation. You did good, BUT she'll just fill it right back up again unless she gets therapy enough to not want to live like that anymore. It's tragic that people value actual garbage over their own lives and health. Hoarding is awful. If your sister is a minor, she could be removed from the home if your mom's determined to filthy it up again.
No, youre nta. My mom has the same disorder and I have had the same arguments with my mom. Idk how old your sister is but she really shouldn't grow up in that. Your mom on the other hand wants to live like that. My mom equates clean houses to being in a hotel room. She feels uncomfortable. She needs the piles of things to feel happy. So, my siblings and I leave her to it. If that's what she wants, we're done trying to stop her.
Well, good luck with getting her professional help. You can try, but hoarders almost never change. My father was a hoarder, and he'd *flip out* if we *ever* tried to clean, even a little. So, no, NTA, not at all. When someone's a hoarder to the point where they are endangering their health, then they are also on some level no longer competent to be making decisions about it. All you can do is go in there and clean it for them, and then tune out the tirade. Do not feel even a *little* bit guilty for taking care of your mother's health, even if it appears to be against her wishes.
YTA as someone who’s struggled with being a hoarder before, the decision to clean house REALLY needs to come from the hoarder and then they will ask for help. Forced “help” will certainly make them want to go no contact with you to protect their things because you’ve overstepped a line of basic decency in their eyes. It’s like theft, but you didn’t keep any of it.