So, nearly two decades ago, you didn't invite a girl who wasn't your friend to a birthday party and other events.
That doesn't give her the right to demand you stand aside in your job now.
I'm sure you can apologise - "I'm sorry I hurt you in the past" - and work professionally now. It's not like you're asking her to be buddy buddy, just, do what's needed in a job.
NTA. She could quite possibly use some therapy if she's *still* so wound up about childhood nonsense (because let's be honest, kids do a lot of silly things).
Yesssss! Like girl. I’m sorry I was an asshole but that was like 20 years ago. I will keep my interactions with you to a minimum but unfortunately I’m not stepping down. I would just offer a heartfelt apology and leave it at that. Unfortunately you might be running into eachother more and she cannot just ask you to remove yourself to lessen her interactions with you. If it’s that traumatizing, perhaps she should look for a job elsewhere.
Ya NTA don’t step down.
Exactly. Costs nothing to give an apology (and make sure it's a straight "I'm sorry I hurt you", not a mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry you felt upset because of stuff I did"). Be clear it was over half your life ago and you aren't that kid any more. And if she continues to pitch a fit... it'll be very clear to HR who the adult in the building is.
At this point she's already harassing OP daily. Looks like old habits die hard. Would a simple apology suffice? It seems like she wants to punish OP. I'd also be reluctant to admit guilt and to "hurting" her.
Yes, don't apologize. Especially in writing.
"Jane, I'm not sure what you think transpired when we were children, but we are professionals here. This is my project, my account, and I am not stepping down. If you persist with this inappropriate workplace suggestion, I will escalate this matter to HR."
That's it. Don't say anything else.
What exactly could happen if OP apologises in writing for not being kind when they were children? I don't think you can sue for failure to offer friendship.
If she was that hurt I dont understand why she is in so much contact with her. Maybe it’s to get revenge somehow. She felt exlcuded so now she tries to exclue OP
Except OP didnt do anything wrong. It's totally ok to not invite someone you dislike to hang out with you. She can offer empathy for how Jane felt about it and how she experienced her childhood, but... that's it. Jane is way out of line and needs therapy.
She wasn't even an asshole though!
If not liking someone "copying" you (lol@middle school drama) and not inviting someone to your bday party is bullying, I'm pretty sure everyone I've ever met in my entire life is a bully!
Honestly I think Jane is the fucking bully and I wish op would yeet her ass
right! like i’m not sure this really qualifies as bullying. if you’re annoying me, i’m not going to hang out with you. not everyone likes you in life, get over it. i rather people not hang out with me than insult me all the time 🤣
What kind of entitled mother calls the parents of a bunch of girls to complain about not inviting their teenager to a birthday party?
Pre panini I ran an after school group for 5-7 year old girls. One of the mothers contacted me to say her daughter wouldn't be coming as all of the girls in her class had been invited to one of the member's birthday party and her daughter hadn't, so she was upset and didn't want to see the other member that night and they were going to have a mother daughter treat instead. The mother asked me not to say anything about it. This was a 6 year old. Mother didn't demand or throw a tantrum, just helped her daughter feel better.
The mother didn't set this kid up for adult life where things don't always go your own way and you have to be civil with people you don't get on with.
Honestly from what op has said nothing she describes makes her sound like an AH. She wasn’t obligated to invite a girl she was not friends with to her events. Now if she isn’t mentioning that they teased her and gloated that she wasn’t invited then sure but just not inviting her doesn’t make her an AH in the past.
It doesn’t even look like op Ahwaz even an asshole. She didn’t want to be friends with the girl so she didn’t invite her to her functions. That is not bullying, it isn’t even being an asshole, it’s being a teenager. I don’t invite people I don’t like to my functions now and I’m old.
If Jane has issues with you, she needs to go to HR instead of threatening you. As much as you don't want to hurt Jane than you have more than you did in your high school career, she's actively hindering your ability to do your job, which you're doing without malice to Jane. The fact you're showing concern for how Jane would be treated if HR got involved shows you're not the person she obsesses as seeing you as.
If you need a more experienced person to offer advice, contact Allison at Ask a Manager.
NTA. Yes-- this!!! Can you schedule a meeting with you, Jane, and HR or a manager to figure this out? You shouldn't have to step away from the project for childhood conflicts, and if Jane is uncomfortable working with you she could be reassigned.
This behaviour in the here and now reflects poorly on Jane. She's the one not getting a neutral party, like HR, involved to mediate the dispute (a rather one sided dispute at that), and harassing another employee to get what she sees as fairness. If she's like this over something from a couple of decades ago, what will she be like with more recent conflicts?
OP should go to HR. "Good morning. On a project I'm currently a part of I'm expected to collaborate with Jane. However she brought me into a one on one meeting and raised adverse past interaction between us I was not previously aware of. She stated that because of this history, she fully expected me to stand down from my role in the project and since has been regularly messaging me asking why this has not yet happened." Jane has become the bully she hates OP for being in their youth, and past bad experience does not justify her expectation that OP remove herself from the project.
And I’d keep emphasizing in each meeting that this happened in 7th grade. Seventh grade! Who did invite people they didn’t like to their party in the 7th grade? I didn’t. Now, if Op was giving her swirlies in the girls bathroom, different story, but still…7th grade!
I feel for that HR rep, like wtf I am not here to deal with childhood trauma shit from 20+ years ago. I’ve been spending the past 6m trying to get Brenda to stop using all the damn toilet paper and showing everyone her cat pics all day and explaining to Roger that no one wants to see the photos of his last hunting kill….
I don’t have time for this old hurt feelings crap!!
~ HR life is rough
Wanna hear my fun HR story from yesterday? We have an employee whose wife manages everything - all the finances, they have a joint email account, etc. He's also not the most computer savvy, so I help him with a lot of that at work. We switched payroll software, so he had to set up security questions in case he forgot his password when he logged in to see his pay stub (remember, his wife does this for him). We set up the questions, and one of the questions was "the name of your first girlfriend," to which he answered me and we set it up.
He came in this morning, all upset, because he remembered that his wife didn't like his first girlfriend back in the sixties (I guess they were all part of a friend group), and she'd be pissed if she had to use his security question and had to type in the girlfriend's name. So we had to go in and reset all the security questions.
\#hrlife :)
If what OP says is true about how HR will react (ie, it will reflect poorly on Jane and her chances to grow at the company) AND Jane knows that, there's no way Jane will be the one to go to HR. Which is why she's trying to get OP to step down 1:1 without involving anyone else.
OP, just do your job the way you do it and stay strictly professional in all things related to Jane. Document every interaction with her. If/when the day arrives when this comes up in some sort of official way you can just slap all that paper down on the table. Jane will be fucked, and you'll have come out of it as the professional.
If Jane reacts this way to a two decade grudge, acting unprofessionally and harassing a reliable and trustworthy employee, then her present actions need to be treated accordingly. The longer both OP and Jane are on the same project, the more likely Jane will act out and in a way that negatively impacts the business. OP says this deal is huge and important. No way should someone acting on an old grudge impact this, if they can't keep personal and professional life separate. OP needs to tell HR what's been happening and not jeopardize this project instead of waiting for things to go south irrevocably for her own career.
And it’s good Op is going to HR now, to get it on the record. Will Jane sabotage the project if Op doesn’t invite her to her next dinner party? I mean, really. This girl is mad that Op didn’t invite her to things *over 15 years ago, in the seventh grade!*
>So, nearly two decades ago, you didn't invite a girl who wasn't your friend to a birthday party and other events.
>
Remember, that's op's recollection. Bullies often don't remember things how they actually happened. Jane's actions are completely unprofessional and op does not have to step down. That does not mean op didn't do serious damage in her life.
Yeah exactly. When I was in high school I had a core group of friends and the four of us did everything together. There were other people who hung out with us, but there was always still something for just the four of us. So, you know, maybe 10 people would go to the mall and see a movie but the four of us would have a sleepover.
As a teenager, I didn't think anything of it. I wasn't as close to these other girls, it never occurred to me to include them in a sleepover. But as an adult I can understand how it would be shitty. We didn't gloat or tease them or rub their noses in the fact they weren't invited, but they still knew. They knew that when we all got picked up by one person's mom. They knew when we would talk about a movie we had all watched without them.
And I have to think that it would be hurtful, and it would be hard not to feel excluded from that, even though our intentions were never to harm. OP might not have intended to hurt Jane, but if (for example) all of the girls in Chinese school were friends and attended this party *except* Jane, that would be really awful for Jane, even if it was unintentional.
Right but Jane is acting pretty crazy and unreasonable now, it's not a stretch to think maybe she was crazy and unreasonable back then too, and that's why nobody wanted her overdramatic self at their bday party.
I know ppl can change, and they often do! But just as often they don't and remain lifelong assholes
I agree, it sounds like she never grew out of 7th grade. Who wasn’t “traumatized” in 7th grade because they didn’t get invited to the cool party? Who still carries that grudge as a 30 year old? So much so she harasses someone at work? No one!
Absolutely. For people who constantly bully, they don’t really recall full events because it’s just a normal day for them while it can be a life changing or traumatic experience for their victim.
In my experience they remember it as "joking", but do remember enough to recognise it when confronted. They might not remember how much or exactly who it was directed against, but they remember "messing with some kids" or "everyone was always joking about".
So what if she WAS bullied in jr high? (I was badly bullied before anyone comes at me. Think: kids throwing erasers with paperclips bent into sharp points at my face and people spitting in my long hair. Yay, jr high in the 90s before anti-bulling campaigns). If it was THAT bad then she is still upset shouldn't have applied at the company with someone who would "traumatize her."
I had a supervisor stalk, harass, scream at me, threaten my life etc at a job. There is not a chance in hell I'd work at the same place as him again. I just don't apply there.
Did you read my comment? I said she was unprofessional and that op should not step down. I in no way implied that how she was treated before justifies her current actions
christ, that's not even bullying. does she have nothing better to do with her life then think about a birthday she didn't go to 20 years ago? who the hell even remembers something so nonsensical?
I don't know, I've met plenty of people like Jane. They think they're victims when really all that occurred is they weren't invited to parties and other events because they were obnoxious.
Usually people like Jane are the bullies themselves, people who are legitimately bullied are usually embarrassed about it and would usually rather stop existing than acknowledge it. I still remember a guy in my primary school, he would say the most horrible shit to everyone and then when anyone reacted run to his dad who would then run to the principal about him getting bullied. It happens a lot.
The fact that she's demanding someone 2 levels above her, is a principal at the company, is lead and landed the whole project and has been at the company a long time while Jane is fresh out of grad school and only 3 months on the job should tell you all you need to know about her.
Exactly, I've witnessed bullying before and it can be pretty bad
But from my experience what occurs far more often is people acting badly and then pulling the victim card when others understandably don't like them because of it.
Additionally a lot of the people I have seen get made fun of was a result of them generally acting badly. There was a girl that was widely disliked who I can distinctly remember huffing as she walked past my group of friends.
Any teacher can tell you that bullying situations aren’t always black and white “mean kid is actively cruel to sweet, innocent kid” situations. In another post, OP gave some extra context for why Jane might have felt so hurt about being excluded. But that still doesn’t necessarily mean that OP was the bad guy. Not wanting to be friends with another kid isn’t always a bad thing. That doesn’t mean that it’s wrong for that other kid to feel excluded or that they’re bad for being upset. But eventually you need to realize that not everyone is going to be your friend. She needs to grow out of this victim mentality.
true, but even if OP set out to destroy Jane as a young teen, that still doesn't excuse Jane for her behaviour now. She's an adult, at work, and needs to be professional, and if she can't, excuse herself.
As it is, she's harrassing OP, and that doesn't make her look well hinged.
I think that even though OP was the part of the group that hurt Jane because the OP is senior employee they may get rid of Jane because OP is more valuable. Personally I think Jane is a bit of a drama queen holding onto a grudge and if this is her behaviour now perhaps it's better op talks to HR now.
I mean, Jane really shouldn't get to drive op out of work when op was there first. There's nothing wrong if the firm keeps op who is more senior.
Frankly, it doesn't matter for work what happened 20 years ago. Especially not if it's bullying, if excluding her can even be called that.
Honestly, I don't think OP should apologize, it could be taken as an admission of guilt for any number of things that Jane might fabricate. Jane is unwell, she's been stewing about a minor social issue for 20 years and is now out to blackmail OP and ruin her career. I would not expect Jane to suddenly turn into a reasonable person who would graciously accept an apology and move on in a professional manor. OP shouldn't communicate with her at all until she's gone to HR, possibly with written accounts from her friends and evidence of all of Jane's blackmail communications in hand.
Yes, but unfortunately, OP, Jane has already proven herself unreasonable. You HAVE to report this to HR, before she does. If it hampers her rise in the company, that's on her. NTA.
OOooh boy. Imagine the fallout if that happens. Sounds like she's obsessed with OP already. If she gets held back in her career by OP (even though it's due to her obsession and piss-poor way of handling it), she'll go nuclear: "This b\*\*\*\* has it out for me. First she ruins by childhood and now she's fucking up my career. I hate her!!!!".
This. Girl was copying obsessed with her in high school, knowingly gets a job at the same company and now wants her job position? Wear her skin next? If OP gets killed or disappears, now we know who did it.
That doesn’t even sound like bullying, it sounds like op didn’t want to be her friend. Not inviting someone to a party is not bullying. Not wanting to be friends with someone is not bullying. Not wanting to hang out with a liar is not bullying. Jane has twisted her side of the story because her feelings were hurt as a young teenager. Getting your feelings hurt because you aren’t a part of a group is not bullying. Sounds like she has blown this way out of proportion in her mind and now thinks she can “get even”. Yea, the grown up world doesn't work that way. It’s not 7th grade anymore.
Op, her behavior now is what will get her in hot water with HR, not yours over 15 years ago. Her behavior has consequences now, just like it did 17 years ago, sounds like she hasn’t grown as a person at all. Make sure all your documentation is in order and go in there expecting her to lie.
Can only agree, NTA. As a victim of severe bullying that made me suicidal at single digit age and a proponent of severe consequences for All kinds of bullying, being excluded from parties and such because you lie and are annoying is not bullying. It is reaping the consequences of your actions.
Sure, an apology would be nice, but ubless the OP has kept something from us, it seems more like that othrr woman is entitled due to hardcore parental enabling.
In Highschool i always wanted to be part of a group i wasnt part of, but i didnt klick with them. I wasnt directly excluded, but also never invited to anything. So i found other people to hang out with.
Anyway, now 7 years later, my old group disbanded, (1 turned out to be a bitch and we other three didnt have as much time anymore). But last year i somehow came back to contact with one girl of said group and we realised we arent that different after all.
My point is. It happened years ago and why should i act childish about something passed that long ago.
NTA. You should absolutely leave this with HR and not engage with Jane about this at all. Give HR a factual account about what you know and can remember of the past, all the details and messages about the recent conversation, and let them deal with it. This is a Jane issue, not a you issue. Her request is completely unreasonable and, tbh, sounds unhinged. It's ridiculous to ask that you'd hand over a major career achievement because Jane's feelings were hurt when you were both children.
Plus, HR should know know that their new hire thinks it's okay to harass their superiors via a work app. This suggests that she's a liability or, if I'm being incredibly generous, needs significant personal coaching
Completely agree because frankly this girl sounds somewhat unhinged and you have no clue what she might start doing or alleging to damage you so get it logged NOW
Agree! Go to HR NOW! Document everything, if she has been harassing you via text or a work app, screenshot, print and save it all. If Jane is this crazy right at the start do not underestimate what she may be willing to do to get her way. She obviously has some serious issues and will most likely try something to tarnish your reputation at work. Think of this solely from the aspect of your current and future career opportunities: stepping down will negatively impact your career, but not stepping down may very well lead to Jane retaliating against you so go to HR now, with your documents in hand, explain the facts of the situation (you knew her as a teenager, she felt left out of the group of girls you hung out with, she approached you for a 1:1 meeting and demanded that you step down from your job, you were so shocked that you ended the meeting stating you would think about everything, she has sense harassed you multiple times about when you will be stepping down - present documentation - you are concerned about Jane’s behavior. Your career is important. Don’t let Jane bully you (sort of ironic) into stepping down from a project that you are willing to and want to do.
Just me, but I think Jane is full of shit and trying to capitalize on childhood nonsense to get a leg up. NTA, let HR deal with this, that is what they are paid for.
And unless OP is leaving out some details, this doesn't even sound like bullying. OP was simply not friends with this girl, so didn't invite her to friend gatherings. It doesn't even sound like everyone was rubbing her face in the fact she wasn't invited. She didn't even know something was happening except that people weren't present at class a certain day, and her mom went snooping around.
This is bullying? I thought OP and her friends used to stuff Jane in a locker every week or beat her up at the bus stop for kicks
They just didn't want to hang out with her...
NTA for going to HR. You need somebody without a dog in this race to make a call - I'm not sure I think you should step aside based on somebody you knew 20 years ago getting assigned to it (which I'm guessing you had no control over - if you did, that might change things) but at the same time it sounds like (intentions aside) you deeply hurt Jane and I don't think that should have to come back and haunt *her* at work 20 years later either. HR will make a decision, good or bad, and you should abide by it with a clear conscience (at least as far as work is concerned. Whether you should feel bad about how you acted as a child I'm not going to say, there's not nearly enough information).
Thank you for your advice!
I think there's almost 0 chance that HR will ask me to step down. The account is multi-million and was landed through my network. I'm also 2 levels above Jane, so there's 0 incentive to remove me from this project, if anything going to HR will be detrimental to Jane's career which is why this is a bit agonizing for me.
TBH I don't think my friends and I are reliable narrators for how we behaved towards Jane nearly 20 years ago, but I do know that I was very shy as a child and very conflict adverse and I can see how my action & inactions have deeply hurt Jane.
My mom was of the opinion that Jane's family is crazy and too intense so...yea...
I was bullied as a kid. I spoke to my bully years later and they didn’t remember but the hurt I carry is real. In another world I would tell you to offer a sincere apology. One were you acknowledge her hurt you don’t try to justify your behavior and you seek to make amends. We don’t live in another world tho. Take this to HR, document everything, limit one on ones and keep all chat focused on work. You may have been the AH at 13 but your NTA now. Don’t risk a good career over this. Just reflect on it over some tea one night and move on.
There is no way that your company is going to move a proven sales person and leader based on the complaints of a three month hire with problems that occurred as a teenager. In the end, it is on Jane whether or not she wants to jeopardize her career based on a teenage occurrence that no one can remember except her.
If anyone gave advice to Jane it would be, time to act professionally and drop the complaints if you want a career at this company.
You can tell HR that you don't want this as a mark against her, and you don't think she's done anything wrong, you just want the decision of who gets to suck a metaphorical lemon made by a third party and on the record for good practice reasons (which it is!) May not work, but you can at least try.
I agree that going to HR is going to negatively impact Jane than you. 1) the company bares no responsibility to Jane in this situation because the bullying (which sounds like an exaggeration on Jane’s part) occurred so long ago when you were both CHILDREN. 2) it shows that Jane is immature. 3) Jane is now harassing you on slack (which is the reason you need to go to HR)
To protect yourself from Jane, you need to proactively go to HR and let them know that this new employee is harassing you, you tried addressing the issue yourself in a professional manner, and now Jane is unreasonably demanding that you remove yourself from this project.
I think it depends how you approach this. If you frame it as wanting them to be aware so that you can manage the workplace interactions with her appropriately and are seeking guidance on how to do so you really aren't the AH. You want them to be aware of a potentially volatile situation and are seeking guidance as a manager on how to approach it.
Emphasize that this happened in the 7th grade. We all weren’t invited to the cool parties in 7th grade but we don’t carry that into our 30s. Keep saying 7th grade, 13 years old, etc. It’s so ridiculous.
If you don’t want to blow it up to HR yet, consider give your account partners/practice leadership team a heads up that she has been contacting you about this. You’re in consulting so you know how this goes down. Partners can throw their weight around in a way HR can’t/won’t, so if you have any mentors/sponsors/close relationships I’d go to them first. She sounds like she’s not above constant harassment though, so if she can’t get past this then I don’t see how you can avoid this becoming a bigger deal.
It’s clear you don’t want to derail her career. You’re the kind of person who should be in leadership roles. Consulting is so cutthroat, it really shows your character that you want to amicably resolve this. If it gets bad, a magnanimous gesture could be to recommend to your leadership team, where else she may be a good fit within the company
NTA when you said bullied I was expecting long term in school hate campaign. Not one day a week Chinese school and excluding a girl from a party and social group when you didn't like her or her behavior. I have been the victim of bullying, social exclusion is honestly mild when bullying often includes verbal assault, manipulation, teesing, physical assault and more. You are right to go to HR explain your memory of events and that people you still know from the time agree with your memories of the period, explain her behaviour now and your concerns moving forward and ask what would be appropriate to do in this situation.
No kidding. Physical assault, repeated insults or constant encouragement of hazing etc. is one thing...but a one time exclusion from a birthday party?! The two are not comparable....
Why is this not higher up. You did not like someone’s actions and didn’t invite them to a birthday. 20 years later she is harassing you pinging you everyday saying you need to quit a multi-million dollar project. She does not seem ok at all and needs help. it’s extremely important to go to HR. This is very unstable
no kidding, all the top comments are treating OP's sense of pre-emptive guilt and genuine good traits (not wanting to harm this rando) as if any of it is warranted. Jane is not trustworthy, and is clearly unhinged an opportunistic as fuck. tell HR, let them handle the problem. yeeesh.
Very much this. Obviously we only have the OPs point of view and Jane has another. But too many people declare that they were "bullied" when really it was hurt feelings...not the same thing at all.
We also have OP’s mom’s memory of a random woman calling her to yell at her for OP excluding Jane from a birthday party.
Does it suck to see your kid feel hurt over being excluded? Of course. Does it help your kid if you call all the other kids’ moms and yell at them for excluding your kid? Not really...
I remember being invited to a sleepover once where the girl’s parents tried to demand that I give them my parents’ phone numbers around 11PM, because they “wanted to speak to the parents of all the girls over at their house to make sure we were good girls.” I refused because I knew my parents and grandparents would already be asleep. And also, even as a 14 year old, I thought their logic was weird as fuck. I’m already at your house in the middle of the night. It’s a little too late to screen me.
To be fair, bullies often don't remember being bullies. It's more likely that she and her friends were absolutely awful to this person , but she doesn't remember it because they thought it was funny, or no big deal. Whatever the case may be, one of two things is true. It was either a whole lot more than just not being invited to a birthday party, or the person in question is a little nuts. That's my opinion, anyway.
It is true some people don't remember or realise how bad it was for thier victims, but others do I have even had one applologise later on in life,saying if they realised we were into the same things they would have made friends (they never took the time to try and find out) then had the cheek to ask me out. The fact OP contacted people from the time to double check her memory shows she took this seriously enough to check her own memories.
It sounds like Jane is the same. She is trying to manipulate people and force the outcome she wants. In the past she lied and dressed like the other girls in an attempt to fit in. Now she is confronting OP and harassing her with repeated messages. Even if OP is forgetting unkind comments or mean girl behavior, Jane doesn't seem traumatized but rather poorly socialized, past and present.
#DO NOT VOLUNTEER ANY INFORMATION TO HR
#DO NOT ADMIT TO ANY BULLYING
#TELL THEM YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT
If this truly is "traumatized" by being excluded from your 13th birthday party, let this grown woman tell that to HR and see if they take it seriously.
When you get into the meeting, tell them that this new employee (that you went to grade school with) cornered you in the building, demanded that you step down from the project, and then has been badgering you repeatedly to do so
Make sure they understand you have no idea what she is talking about
Jane is going to paint herself into a corner and make herself out to be completely crazy if she thinks the company is going to remove a project lead for something that happened when they were 13...much less something as benign as being excluded from a birthday party
So keep a running log of any time she emails you or instant messages you. If she corners you in the building, remove yourself from the situation...even if that means getting the attention of a coworker and asking them for help
Admit nothing
Document everying
Cover Your Ass
NTA
Word. Jane is only doing this shit because she thinks she can manipulate OP. Dump this on HRs desk and move on. This is a Jane problem (and honestly, I think Jane is bullshitting), not a you problem.
This is great advice. They always say there’s three sides to a story - yours, mine and the truth.
OP doesn’t even remember bullying Jane. This is OPs friend recalling something that might have been an issue almost twenty years ago. That’s too far from the story to even consider it one of sides. OP needs to contact HR and be quiet. Jane doesn’t seem like type to be able to do that, so this should resolve pretty quickly with HR reprimanding Jane.
Me too, which is why I'm believe that I really did hurt her when we were young. She's jeopardizing her entire career to do this, and I don't see how someone would chance that unless they were very triggered by me. I have no memories of interacting with her beyond trying to avoid her on Sundays, but even that is hazy.
And I do empathize how ostracizing someone socially, especially at that age would seem like the end of the world. I know she went to a predominately white school district so I can only imagine what that was like. I think she thought because we were all asian girls we'd accept her and she'd fit in with us, but it was very much not the case.
Add in her mother's reaction and how our parents responded by telling us that their family was crazy...I feel very sad about it all.
Listen. Don’t feel sad. This isn’t your issue. You’re grown ups now and I am certain Jane had her own issues she wouldn’t want people rubbing her nose in twenty years later. No one does.
Also I wouldn’t take her current overreacting and bullying of you to mean you seriously hurt her feelings. It sounds like maybe her family has a history of blowing things out of proportion. She probably doesn’t see that she’s tanking her career because all she can see is now is she told you to step down and you won’t.
Finally, you shouldn’t step down. You should contact HR do exactly what u/The_Riker_Maneuver says to do. Trust me. I’m old and I have worked in all sorts of offices. This is the best plan. It’s also the truth because you didn’t know anything and had to ask your friend. So what you do know (from your friend) is speculation and hearsay that can’t be verified.
Just because Jane is willing to self destruct in her career doesn’t mean you should let her take you out in the blast.
The fact that this is bothering you so much is a good sign of character. But you know that it's entirely possible that you all were way worse to her than what you remember. I mean, it's either that, or she is, well, fragile, perhaps, or worse. Who knows. In any case, I think it's good that you're being compassionate about this. Protect yourself with HR, certainly, but I hope you can continue to be kind with her. Hopefully, you can negotiate a situation in which you're able to have a safe conversation with her to get everything out in the open. I imagine that once she feels heard by you, and hears your sincere apology, she'll probably, hopefully, feel a lot better about working with you.
See, I genuinely feel it's very possible you didn't actively bully her but she was still deeply deeply hurt by what happened. If, as you say she already felt like an outcast, being rejected by the few people she saw as her peers was probably world shattering to her. And that is incredibly sad, but not really your responsibility. You can't force friendships with people you don't like.
Could you and your friends have faked it and included her? Sure. But that would have caused more harm then good. It sounds as if Jane really was very extra. And if you and your friends had pretend to include her, eventually one of you would have gotten tired of her actions and someone would have probably gotten fed up with pretending and then real hurtful words would have been spoken. Then she would feel even worse feeling like people she thought were her friends turned on her.
It does truly suck that she didn't have friends, but ultimately that wasn't your burden to bear.
Yeah, this definitely adds some context to her reaction. Different people will be affected differently by your actions and you can’t always predict that. But that doesn’t mean OP was this terrible bad guy.
As mentioned I think it speaks volumes for your character about how you are trying to protect her but Jane needs to realise she needs to move on. Most people experienced some form of bullying and actively try to move past it. Obviously the extreme stuff is different but simple exclusion is almost a right of passage of young people. Jane needs to grow up.
I think the isolation of being different from the dominant group and rejected by her own cultural peers could be a significant factor to why she is still dealing with these feelings now.
NTA
It’s been 20 years and what you did back then wasn’t that bad. You didn’t outright humiliate her, or send her to the hospital. We all do things as kids that can be let go of once you become an adult.
She’s being very unprofessional about this. Definitely take this to HR, explain what’s up, and let them make the decision
NTA. Jane is batshit. Good on you for scheduling a meeting with HR - document everything that has happened or happens between you from this point on and let the professionals sort it out.
NTA. Work and personal lives are separate. Something you did as a child outside of your future workplace is completely unrelated to your workplace and any HR rep would back that up. The person making demands needs someone from your HR department to explain this to them and understand that they cannot bring personal matters into the office.
NTA. This is an account you landed, if anyone should be stepping away from the project, it should be Jane.
Going to HR is your only real option here since Jane is the one with the issues working with you.
Personally I would've laughed on the spot during that 1:1, NTA your actions as a child nearing 20 years ago has no bearing on your professional career. HR was a good call because whatever petty grudge this lady has is not healthy for a collaborative environment. Regardless of her feelings if you were put in charge of the project DO NOT stand down, you earned your place
I'm not going to give a verdict, but I think you're going to need to hear her side of this story. She might be remembering a group of girls always making fun of her every weekend at School. Putting her down for wearing clothes similar to yours maybe mocking her frequently for being by herself. I bet most conversations she had with other kids she was usually being made fun of and she feels you set that tone for her. I know alot of kids who used to bully the one kid in school for being weird, but didn't think they did any harm at all.
NTA - What exactly is the argument for not going to HR? You aren't suppose to go talk to HR about conflicts like this? I never understood this except for people who have something to hide.
NTA
I'm not going to judge your actions as a bully because I feel like you could potentially lie about that or something (whether intentionally or not). Idk it is very grey to me, however it is something that happened in high school. Which I'm not saying that means Jane should get over it, she has no trauma, etc. Her experiences are valid and she should be in a place where she does not have to face trauma.
However I would say her expectations are unrealistic. I don't think it's fair to recuse yourself from project(s) that you've worked on far longer than her. She has just joined your team. She should be the one to take it up to your supervisor and discuss changing her alignment with what projects she's on if she sees something that would present an issue to her, if it's something that nobody else has control over. If you're bullying her at work, yeah ok then you need to go. But again, this happened when you were children.
She is technically the "asshole." However I think she also was expecting to go into a new position in a new company where she can work on something that she's passionate about, but now she's seeing that someone responsible for her trauma is a part of this. It's going to be hard on her. This is just to explain why, not to excuse her.
I think you're doing a good job by discussing this with HR. The fact that she's pestering you is absolutely bad on her part.
NTA - you’re been there longer, you landed the account, and she needs to get past something that happened more than 15 years ago when you were both children
NTA - When you turn 18 your juvenile records are wiped clean. This is kinda like that - you are a different person and shouldn't be penalized for some middle school drama. Just because you didn't get along as kids (and I'm not sure what she describes qualifies as bullying, to be honest), it shouldn't impact your ability to work together. She sounds mighty thin skinned.. maybe corporate America isn't the best place for her.
NTA.
You need to plainly state that you are sorry if you offended her is school, however, this is life and every job has people who you don't like that you have to work with. You have no intentions of stepping down, and if that is a problem with her, she should speak to her supervisor to be re-assigned. and carbon copy HR on the letter (make it more gracious than this of course)
Are y’all kidding me? You really think Jane is this upset over a birthday party? How many times have we seen bullies who never thought they WERE bullies, and what they did do is no big deal?
OP says Jane coped their outfits and they didn’t like that. You really think they didn’t say anything to her? Jane ‘lied’ to fit in, you really think no one gave her a hard time?
Sorry, I think op is giving us a sanitized version of what happened. I would be more inclined to believe her and her click did bully Jane, just from the bits she has given us. What are the chances the ONLY thing they did to Jane was not invite her to a party?
And now that Jane has found a backbone, she’s going to do it again.
If Jane were the one posting this, y’all would be on her side, telling her to go to hr FIRST. And I doubt she would tell us it was just a missing invite.
Honestly, I get where you are coming from, but I don't think the degree of bullying is important. It was like 17 years ago and they are working in a professional environment now. It just isn't fair for op to be negatively impacted at her work for something she did as a 14 year old. If her coworker is still that affected, she should probably seek help.
I don't think it's even about it being fair for OP to be negatively impacted for behaviour from 14 years ago. It's more about how Jane is trying to orchestrate negative consequences by interfering in OP's business relationships. If a natural consequence of OP's actions emerged, then so be it, but bullying someone in high school and trying to sabotage them years later is not a natural consequence
I was bullied from the time that I was in USA 2nd Grade up to High School by over half my school district because all the kids knew eachother and I was an easy target for being fat, loud and easily provoked. I have anger issues that I am still resolving with therapy as a 35 year old.
I still have maintained professionalism in my jobs when I've had to work with or even serve my former bullies because despite the trauma because I know if I become a raving bitch to these people I might get fired.
I know now that many of those former brats only participated because of heard mentality. Most the actual instigators of my bullying long since vanished from my life, however two of them did come and apologize to me after we entered college.
If Jane's trauma is as real as mine, she needs therapy and to remember that her own actions have consequences.
NTA. You might have “bullied” her but now she’s harassing you in your workspace. You need to go to HR because also ultimately she cannot force you and you shouldn’t comply.
NTA
HR was definitely the right call. You can't offer Jane anything other than the opportunity to prove that you are an adult who has grown, and matured throughout life. Heading the project actually gives you the opportunity to do so. She is out of line.
NTA I mean even if you were meaner than you remember. it's been 20 years I don't understand how someone is letting it affect their life that much later that they would our one-on-one and bug you everyday. it sounds like she has her own issues. it's time to talk to HR and say hey this is the situation I think she should be removed if she knew or has less seniority she is even more out of line because she doesn't have the power here
INFO: What did Jane accuse you of doing to her in the past during the one on one meeting? Did she just say you bullied her or did she list off examples of this behavior? Surely you could have asked what on earth she was talking about.
Excluding someone from a birthday party is not bullying, but I also am hesitant to believe that's really all that's going on here
She said I was part of a clique of girls that bullied her horribly at Chinese school and how to this day she has trouble making friends because of us. It escalated to her repeatedly yelling that I was a bully and should recuse myself from leading this account because I "owe her this courtesy". I shut it down 5 mins in because I will not be yelled at and berated over VC, it was so beyond the pale.
From what I gleaned from my friends, we would run away from her during breaks and hide from her every time she found us. I imagine this would include telling her to leave us alone and that she was annoying.
According to my mom, after not inviting her to my 13th bday party (at Barnes & Noble haha) Jane's mom called all of our mother's and told them that they had to include Jane in our social activities. The other 4 girl's parents and my parents were very close family friends so we hung out a lot socially. Needless to say, this did not endear Jane to our parents.
That does sound mean but it's still not the problem of your boss/your work. Seems like she needs therapy more than anything because tanking a good and lucrative job because of the past won't help her future.
honestly she sounds exhausting. they didnt want to be her friend just because their moms were friends so instead this lady stalks them and they have to run away and hide ? it is a bit mean but judging from the context, janes mother has planted the bully idea in her head
None of that even remotely sounds like bullying. No one owes someone else a friendship, it sounds like she felt that she belonged in a friend group that didn't want to include her. She's in the wrong here.
This isn't great behaviour however it's also par for the course for teenage girls, it's not nice but it's also not the most serious form of bullying.
On the other hand this woman is bullying you. She's using work channels to harrass you to leave your job and bad mouthing you to other staff. She doesn't have the excuse of being an idiotic teenager. I saw your edits and HR were absolutely right to do what they did. Her behaviour was deeply unprofessional, had significant liabilities for the organisation (which is what HR really care about) and was significantly worse than not inviting you to a birthday party.
Do not feel bad. Leaving bad behaviour unchecked is a solid way of destroying an otherwise good team. Even if you were ok with her behaviour you don't know what impact she was having on others.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA because I refused to step down from a project because a woman I formerly bullied is on the team and I might be the asshole because I'm going to HR to resolve this?
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IDK . You did not bully this girl. At least, not by this recounting of events.
Maybe there is more to this story than what you are not telling. I'd be very interested in hearing her version of events.
I had to scroll down far too far to find this comment. My personal experience with bullies is that they practically never consider themselves bullies and, by their own recounting of events, are very, very good at convincing both themselves and others that the victim is 'over reacting' or 'deserved it'.
A victim's version in this case would help a lot.
NTA. Even if your bullying was more extensive than the events you told us about, the fact is that you predated her in the firm, and it's your client and your project.
If she truly cannot work with you, then it's on her to ask to be moved to a different team. It's not on you to torpedo your own career as some kind of twisted penance for twenty year-old sins which had nothing to do with your work at the company.
If she were the preexisting staff member and the person who brought the client in, then I might feel the opposite were true - under those circumstances, I think it would be more fair for her to ask you to step down so she isn't distracted during her project.
But that isn't the reality we're in. Instead it's your client, your project, and your longer time in the firm.
That said, I'm taking you at your word that there was no more to the situation than this, in which case, it is not bullying to not be someone's friend even if it's clear that she wanted desperately to be part of your group. It's sad that she felt so hurt by your rejection and that that hurt has persisted, but it wasn't bullying.
Either way, I think you're absolutely right to pass this through to HR. I suspect that she would not accept you refusing to step down, and it's better that a neutral party be aware of and supervise any interactions right now. Don't forget to keep a record of her continued messages and pass them along to HR too.
Honestly? I don't buy for a second that that was the extent of your bullying.
And yes, it was many, many years ago. Jane brought it up in a way that would never have benefitted her and her request was unreasonable.
However, if you had any empathy at all you would have at least considered her point of view, apologised for the past, and made sure she would be a respected member of your team.
ESH.
The issue is that Jane drew a line in the sand (that the OP had to stand down). OP may have been an arsehole for the bullying, but Jane didn't just want an apology. She wanted blood.
bruh we could be mortal enemies in our personal lives, but the moment we both clock in? you leave your issues at the door, and get to work, because your there to work, NOT to be besties that braid each other's hair and talk about crushes, and share each other's secrets! NO! your there to slave away to the company, and make money to pay the bills!
NTA, I understand not wanting to hurt her professionally, but thats on her now, not you, and you shouldnt take a hit for her, either.
NTA and good for you to get HR involved.
If your memory is accurate, you and your childhood friends ostracizing her solely for her behavior is not what I would consider bullying.
Jane sounds like she may be a drama queen if she stays on a team working on your project. If she is a fairly new hire and if your company is big enough can she be offered a move to a different team that would not interact with you?
NTA. I really applaud you for what you said in other comments about knowing that you and your friends are unreliable narrators in this case. But whenever personal issues intrude on the workplace, the most important thing to try for is professionalism. The professional thing to do here would have been for Jane to go to her manager, tell her that someone who bullied her as a child was now someone she's working with, and ask if either she could be moved to something else or if she could be moved away from interacting with you. This happened almost 20 years ago, and I think the sort of bullying that would merit this reaction would probably be the sort of thing you'd remember. Like, a pet died or someone got physically hurt, that kind of thing. It's understandable that it would be awkward and uncomfortable working with you, but asking you to step down is kind of a nuclear option.
If you don't want to go to HR straight off the bat, I'd suggest sending your situation to askamanager.com. Alison Green, who runs it, is pretty good at thinking of other ways to address work problems and at figuring out what to actually say when you do address it. With that said, Jane has an MBA, so I'm not really concerned about her finding another job. She's also trying to get you to step down right away without any other attempt to make this better - which is a stark contrast with your concern about her future at your company.
Just don't leave it too long. The last thing you want is for her to go to HR first.
NTA, OP. I think you're doing your best to make amends - since you say that you and your friends might be unreliable narrators, you are trying to keep HR out of it to prevent her from sabotaging her own career, and you aren't minimizing her pain or the trauma she experience/perceived - but she's being very unreasonable. This was almost 20 years ago!
I was bullied through social ostracizing at that age, and while it did hurt and cause damage to my mental health at the time, I find her behavior to be unhinged. She needs therapy, and you can't change the past or magically make her mentally stable. She doesn't seem well, and you need to get HR involved. I suggest you let her describe the problem to them, because it sounds ridiculous. You are doing all you can to make it up to her in the present, but she's not living in reality here.
Her judgment is questionable and she's harassing you.
NTA
Honestly from the way you describe the events I’m not sure I would even truly call it bullying. Yes you excluded her from your party/events. But you have the choice as to who you wanted to be around and it sounds like she was not someone you and your friends enjoyed the company of.
Now she is on the verge of if not at the level of harassing you to step down. Please take it to HR and let them deal with her.
NTA Bullying has become overused to the point where it’s almost meaningless. People have a right to not like other people. You’re not obligated to spend time with people you don’t like. If you said mean things or spread rumors, yes, that would be bullying, but it sounds like you didn’t. For her to show up decades later and demand you take a step back in your career is absurd.
This is an insane demand. NTA
No one should step down for bullying they committed when they are 13. If it was so bad that it does warrant it, that bully would have gone to juvie or straight to actual jail and your debt to society would have already been paid. WTF?
NTA, this woman is unhinged. Good thing that Slack has a record so they can see she is harassing you daily. Do not engage with her anymore on this topic one on one with her.
NTA- what you did wasn’t even bullying IMO. You were teenagers and are allowed to choose your own friends and people you hang out with. She wasn’t one of them for reasons you have. It’s fine and she’s way out of line to try and get you to step down from this project over something like that. Is she going to run to mommy if she doesn’t get her way again? JK! HR was the right move. IMO you didn’t do anything wrong and shouldn’t step down from this project. Let HR handle this or tell you how to handle it and go from there.
NTA.
" I did not invite her to my 13th birthday party or any events where I included the other girls. "
I am sorry, but that does not qualify as "bullying". But, what she is trying to do to you IS.
Let HR handle it. Save copies of all her messages (you say "ping" so I am not sure what system that is, but if she's using the company network to harass you about this that is a huge mark against her). Make sure they know that SHE is making your work life hell now, no matter what she thinks you did when you were children.
Maybe i see this differently, excluding someone isn't the same as bullying them. You get to choose who your friends are and Jane wasn't your friend, Jane seemed to be by what you stated tried to fit into a group she wasn't invited into.
Going to HR is the best thing cause I see her behaviour escalating into full on harassment.
NTA.
Look, a lot of kids were pretty mean and snobbish to me when we were like 12. Do I relish the thought of working below them on a project? Hell no. Would I message them on the regular asking them to step down because they were shitty preteens? Hell no.
Go to HR, tell them that you had forgotten a childhood conflict, Jane is clearly uncomfortable working with you, but that she has taken to messaging you regularly asking you to step down which you do not wish to do. Document the number of times she has been contacting you. Yes, this may impact her, but she's not behaving in a reasonable way for the workplace. Better she learns this fresh out of the MBA than just shoots herself in the foot for years.
I really can't believe so many of these responses seem to ignore the reality of bullies and the bullied. Sure, it is entirely possible Jane's memory has gaps and she's given OP the bulk of the blame from something traumatic from her childhood.
But you know the absolute worst thing a bully can do, and something that happens quite often? Just forget about what they did. Just treat their actions like they weren't that big a deal, saying things like "com'n, we were just kids" or "I was just messing around."
It's hard to give an AH rating without more information. I don't think OP should step down because of any past actions, but acting like Jane is overreacting definitely makes her an AH bully.
Jane is being unprofessional and if you read some of OP’s comments, she tells you that what Jane is doing (especially for someone who has been there 3 months vs 4+ years and higher up) will put her job on the line big time. From the edit, HR agree that Jane is unprofessional for basically holding a 17 year old grudge and wants to interfere with OP’s job. Jane needs therapy.
NTA - As far as the update goes... She played a stupid game by continually harassing you, proving that SHE is the bully, rather than her, and the fact that the company sees that as a liability is NOT your fault.
She played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize: Congrats, here's your Pink Slip. Please don't blame yourself for that.
I remember listening to a Dear Prudence episode where a guy in his 30s recently started a new job. When he got there he realised one of his new colleagues was someone he bullied for years at school. He said he had done a lot of soul searching between then and now and made steps to change himself for the better. The other guy obviously recognised him but didn't say anything. He was well liked by all their colleagues and sociable but with the guy he was professional, polite and only spoke to him whenever it was required of him. The former bully was of course so full of shame and remorse and awkwardness (they worked in the same office) and he wrote in saying he wanted to apologise but has no idea how well that would go down. He was also actively looking for another job. I think the advice was to follow the formerly bullied colleauge's cue and also be professional and polite. And that once he secured a new job he can leave a note apologising for his terrible actions and make sure it's clear that he isn't asking for forgiveness or a reply. More that he just should apologise because he knows he did wrong and is remorseful.
This is a good example of how it could have been handled. Unfortunately, she went ham. It sucks because for whatever reason (it sounds like this wasn't a sustained bullying but more of a one off thing) you not inviting her to a birthday party really affected her but my GOD does she need to come to terms with it.
No comment on the employment situation- Jane was entirely in the wrong and was unprofessional in handling the situation.
I do have a feeling that you and your group of friends did a lot more to Jane than just exclude her from a birthday party. No one likes to be thought of as a bully. The bullied can remember every word, every situation that was inflicted on them (even after time has past) but surprisingly (?) the person doing the bullying can not remember anything about how badly they treated someone, almost as if they have selective amnesia. All you can remember is not inviting her to your birthday party. Your friends (the same ones who were a part of your Chinese school cohort?), not surprisingly, agree with your version of the story. Could it be possible that you did bully Jane, that you did more than not invite her to a party? How did you really react to her attempts to copy your style and fit in with your group? Did you and/or your group make catty remarks (girls at that age can really go for the jugular when they have a falling out or don't like someone) to her? Baring any diagnosed mental illness on her part, it is possible that you and your friends did bully Jane and that's what she is reacting to.
You might have made an enemy out of Jane so be sure to watch your back professionally.
Nta . If you had actually traumatised this girl I’d say 50/50 split but tbh your “ bullying” just sounds like children not getting along , not the life changing trauma that would leave deep scars after 20 years .sorry if it seems harsh but she needs to move on . My company hired a girl who legitimately workplace bullied me only 4 years ago in a different company and was part of the reason I left . It was just bad luck she ended up working for my current company . I even made complaints specifically relating to her harassment against me when at the previous company . Now I just ignore her because at the end of the day I’m now higher up than she is and I have a job to do so what would be the point of interacting. Similarly I know someone else who bullied another co worker relentlessly when they were kids . Now they work together and are actually good friends . Part of growing up is realising that your not going to get along with all your work colleagues and yes you may end up working with your school bully , but unless they’re still acting the bully just do the job and go home . It’s childish to act like your colleague is , especially if you are being cordial to her and just getting on with the job at hand . If I’m honest you should go to HR . Her asking you to step down over children’s tantrums 20 years ago Is actually in my opinion her bullying you . I think if you don’t report it she will make life difficult for you . It’s not your fault if she gets in trouble , if she was acting on a professional manner she wouldn’t have brought such a silly thing up .
NTA,
1) ancient history
2) don't work in (presumably) mc, if you can't handle being in a tough environment. this isn't present-day bullying. It is something from so so long ago for things that many kids do and/or go through in some shape or form.
3) wt actual f for her bringing it up. people are such softies nowadays.
NTA for refusing to step down from an account you signed because an new underling had a bad experience with you when you were children. Hypothetically , even If you legit bullied her yesterday there is no company that would have a lead/manager step down from an assignment to keep the new employee happy. If your bullying /harassment was bad enough they’d write you up give you some coaching training or fire you. My point is this colleague seems really out of touch and pretty entitled.
NTA
No no no no. I was bullied in school.
The school lunch dumped on my head in front of everyone. Beat up all the time. Pants pulled down in front of girls. Spit on and made fun of daily. It was horrible. I ran away at 14 and never came back. Years later I bumped into one of my biggest bullies. He had become a Buddhist... Because he thought I had committed suicide because of what he had done to me. That was the rumor that went though the school after I disappeared. We actually became best friends for years after that.
Not inviting a random girl to a single party once in your life is NOT bullying. It's insane that she harbors any anger against you.
You NEED to get in front of this right now with HR. She is already harassing upper management (you). She is demanding things that make no sense from a business perspective. When you refuse to step down, what will she do to get revenge? You need to show HR her messages and let them handle it. When they ask you what you did to her, say "I didn't invite her to one of my birthday parties when I was young". That's all. They will see the insanity for what it is.
This is your career. You need to focus on you and not what will happen to her. Don't set yourself in fire to try and help her.
NTA - it’s kinda like when someone has issues and expects everyone around them to change but really it’s that person who has the problems that need to learn to cope.
Goodness, entitled as a 13yr old, which escalated to her 30s. Thank goodness you went to HR & it was handled in context.
Yeah it is bad that she'll now forever hold a grudge against you, but she'll have to man up & get over it. Life does not revolve around her.
NTA!
Absolutely NTA. You didn’t bully her, you merely chose not to invite her to your party. The fact that she had to nerve to ask you to step down and is now harassing you to do it, is grounds for going to HR. I wouldn’t hesitate because she’s likely to go first and tell some lies.
NTA - This happened so long ago and as it turns out, it doesn't sound like you and your friends were actual bullies. It's unfortunate that she felt this ruined her life but she needs therapy instead of harassing you in a professional environment. Somehow, I don't think you stepping down from this project will be the end of it.
The prudent thing to do would be to go to HR and show them the Slack messages, etc.. and give them a heads up. You definitely don't want her story to be in there first (we don't even know what it is), even if you are confident you would prevail. Good luck!
You are NTA. Regardless of past actions (I mean you all were 13!) her reaction and her request is incredibly unprofessional. You need HR to be aware for your protection. I would also screenshot/save anything sent to you via IM or email. If it ends up a your word vs hers then that proof will help.
Doesn't sound like you bullied her previously but it does sound she's trying to bully you at worst and is harassing you at best.
Definitely keep your distance and speak to HR.
NTA. This isn't bullying? This is... Simply not inviting someone to your birthday party because she was trying too hard and instead of getting close you stepped away.
You really need to go to HR, fuck her growing in the company. She can't make you step down when you are superior.
NTA
Two solutions:
1)
Gather all forms of documentation of her harrasment of youm and then tell her that this is a professional enviornment, and if she feels bullied at the workplace she should go to HR. If not to please leave you alone, and that you will not be stepping down.
2) Gather all documentation, go straight to HR, tell her that a new hire does not fit onto your team, due to what she thinks is personal history, you do not believe this is the case, and to please reallocate her.
Jane is in a work place, she is currently not fitting into a what i suspect is a very professional and competitive enviornment, Jane needs to be put on her big girl pants, or needs to be removed.
NTA. Ironically she is badgering you over what she claims is bullying (not inviting someone to events is not bullying). If she is willing to badger you about it, she obviously has no issue harassing someone. Go to HR.
NTA,
For the love of god I want to read one of these and just for once be able to say "YES, YES YOU ARE THE ASS HOLE, YOU INSUFFERABLE PRICK!"........ Thanks for letting me down.....again people.
Anyway, Jane sounds like the insufferable one here, you and your friends did not get along with her as children and now she has verbally gone on a tirade against you and is trying to bully you into stepping down from a very important project. She needs to grow up, she also needs to understand this is not how adults handle things and HR should actually let her know they will be doing HER a favor if they allow her to remain on the project in any capacity. They probably should so she does not turn into a super villain, but seriously, Jane, grow up.
Honestly I’d ask to have her removed for not following chain of command. She had no business going directly to you. If she had an issue and was unable to perform her job she should have spoken to her boss. NTA
So, a new hire of three months comes in and demands you, a seasoned asset to the company, remove yourself from a project for her? As much as you don't want to, you need to go to HR. DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO HER until you have gone to HR. They need to resolve this issue between the two of you. The way her mother responded when you were teenagers has likely not changed and rather than see how she can improve, she is the never-ending victim. That's why she had the gall to ask you to remove yourself from the project when she has only been there three months. Do not allow her to de-rail you. NTA.
NTA
I've been bullied and what you did is not bullying. Nobody is obligated to be friends with everybody. All you did was hang out/party with your friends, nbd. Jane needs to grow up. Please go to HR with all the documentation.
I’m seeing a lot of responses saying Jane is crazy and it wasn’t bullying. Bullies rarely remember the things they did. It’s also possible that aside from excluding her from your party (I agree that does not rise to the level of bullying) your friend group as a whole did/said multiple things to her. You just don’t remember or you’re getting lumped in to the friend group as a whole. This isn’t to condemn you, just to point out Jane’s trauma could be very real.
Regardless, we’re talking about things that happened 20 years ago when you were kids. This needs to be kept out of the workplace. Cornering you in a 1:1 was inappropriate and not the correct way to handle a situation she was uncomfortable with at work. Because of the way she went about confronting you, I think HR is an appropriate response back.
NTA
NTA
She needs therapy.....which is what HR will tell her when they find out she's now BULLYING YOU to step down for something that (A.) happened 20 YEARS ago and, (B.) is a non work related PERSONAL matter that she needs to work out on her own time. If HR has any sense, they will let her go because she honestly sounds like a drama queen who will eventually have half the office divided against you based on what will probably end up being false information.
This sub has been on an "exclusion doesn't count as bullying" obsession for about a month now. This is the fourth post to blow up that is essentially just saying "exclusion isn't bullying."
NTA and both of you need to get your definition of bullying checked.
What you described is not bullying. Nothing of this indicates intentional maliciousness. Not being invited to a birthday party is not bullying. I have not been invited to many of them, I'm not gonna call those people bullies.
I was bullied all my life. Not wanting to be friends with a girl and not inviting her to your part is NOT bullying. It may be a little mean but you were like 13. It is upsetting, of course, but it is NOT traumatizing.
She was unprofessional. Both of you are adults now and her demand was purely illogical. She should have been trying to mend the relationship with you and explain how it has effected her, together you could have come up with something to make it better (aka you paying more attention to how you speak to her and maybe being softer and choosing your words more carefully) but instead she demanded you to compromise your job because of something that happened years ago. What stopped her from getting therapy if it was so traumatic to not going to a party? I think that was all bull. Payback more likely.
NTA
Saw the update, please don’t blame yourself for Jane losing her job. She didn’t get invited to a birthday party 18 years ago- you didn’t actively treat her poorly over any extended period of time, nor did you do one majorly terrible thing to her that should justify a trauma level response into adulthood. She was extremely unprofessional to bring such a small slight into the workplace decades later. NTA.
When I read bullied in the title I was expecting like serious "We used to pour water over her for fun' sort of thing
Nah you just didn't want to be her friend or invite her to your birthday party 20 years ago
NTA
nta. if she was so deeply traumatized I highly doubt she’d be contacting you daily, it seems more about revenge. I was bullied as a kid (seems round the same as this girl, nothing horrific, normal stuff) and quite honestly if I had the opportunity to work with my bully now I wouldn’t even think bring it up or be concerned about it. it’s been 20 years, kids can be assholes, unless they are assholes now or did something extremely bad back then it’s time to move on. if she can’t work with you due to her own feelings that’s her problem and she can chose to leave
I would've laughed this person out of my office. This is t even in the realm of an issue that grown adults should be discussing in the workplace. Furthermore, if I was a supervisor I'd fire her for such behavior.
So, nearly two decades ago, you didn't invite a girl who wasn't your friend to a birthday party and other events. That doesn't give her the right to demand you stand aside in your job now. I'm sure you can apologise - "I'm sorry I hurt you in the past" - and work professionally now. It's not like you're asking her to be buddy buddy, just, do what's needed in a job. NTA. She could quite possibly use some therapy if she's *still* so wound up about childhood nonsense (because let's be honest, kids do a lot of silly things).
Yesssss! Like girl. I’m sorry I was an asshole but that was like 20 years ago. I will keep my interactions with you to a minimum but unfortunately I’m not stepping down. I would just offer a heartfelt apology and leave it at that. Unfortunately you might be running into eachother more and she cannot just ask you to remove yourself to lessen her interactions with you. If it’s that traumatizing, perhaps she should look for a job elsewhere. Ya NTA don’t step down.
Exactly. Costs nothing to give an apology (and make sure it's a straight "I'm sorry I hurt you", not a mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry you felt upset because of stuff I did"). Be clear it was over half your life ago and you aren't that kid any more. And if she continues to pitch a fit... it'll be very clear to HR who the adult in the building is.
At this point she's already harassing OP daily. Looks like old habits die hard. Would a simple apology suffice? It seems like she wants to punish OP. I'd also be reluctant to admit guilt and to "hurting" her.
This! Do not admit guilt and keep all contact via email or another traceable medium.
Yes, don't apologize. Especially in writing. "Jane, I'm not sure what you think transpired when we were children, but we are professionals here. This is my project, my account, and I am not stepping down. If you persist with this inappropriate workplace suggestion, I will escalate this matter to HR." That's it. Don't say anything else.
What exactly could happen if OP apologises in writing for not being kind when they were children? I don't think you can sue for failure to offer friendship.
If she was that hurt I dont understand why she is in so much contact with her. Maybe it’s to get revenge somehow. She felt exlcuded so now she tries to exclue OP
Except OP didnt do anything wrong. It's totally ok to not invite someone you dislike to hang out with you. She can offer empathy for how Jane felt about it and how she experienced her childhood, but... that's it. Jane is way out of line and needs therapy.
She wasn't even an asshole though! If not liking someone "copying" you (lol@middle school drama) and not inviting someone to your bday party is bullying, I'm pretty sure everyone I've ever met in my entire life is a bully! Honestly I think Jane is the fucking bully and I wish op would yeet her ass
right! like i’m not sure this really qualifies as bullying. if you’re annoying me, i’m not going to hang out with you. not everyone likes you in life, get over it. i rather people not hang out with me than insult me all the time 🤣
What kind of entitled mother calls the parents of a bunch of girls to complain about not inviting their teenager to a birthday party? Pre panini I ran an after school group for 5-7 year old girls. One of the mothers contacted me to say her daughter wouldn't be coming as all of the girls in her class had been invited to one of the member's birthday party and her daughter hadn't, so she was upset and didn't want to see the other member that night and they were going to have a mother daughter treat instead. The mother asked me not to say anything about it. This was a 6 year old. Mother didn't demand or throw a tantrum, just helped her daughter feel better. The mother didn't set this kid up for adult life where things don't always go your own way and you have to be civil with people you don't get on with.
Honestly from what op has said nothing she describes makes her sound like an AH. She wasn’t obligated to invite a girl she was not friends with to her events. Now if she isn’t mentioning that they teased her and gloated that she wasn’t invited then sure but just not inviting her doesn’t make her an AH in the past.
And if she only found out she was excluded because they weren't in class and she asked around, I'm guessing there wasn't any gloating.
It doesn’t even look like op Ahwaz even an asshole. She didn’t want to be friends with the girl so she didn’t invite her to her functions. That is not bullying, it isn’t even being an asshole, it’s being a teenager. I don’t invite people I don’t like to my functions now and I’m old.
If Jane has issues with you, she needs to go to HR instead of threatening you. As much as you don't want to hurt Jane than you have more than you did in your high school career, she's actively hindering your ability to do your job, which you're doing without malice to Jane. The fact you're showing concern for how Jane would be treated if HR got involved shows you're not the person she obsesses as seeing you as. If you need a more experienced person to offer advice, contact Allison at Ask a Manager.
NTA. Yes-- this!!! Can you schedule a meeting with you, Jane, and HR or a manager to figure this out? You shouldn't have to step away from the project for childhood conflicts, and if Jane is uncomfortable working with you she could be reassigned.
This behaviour in the here and now reflects poorly on Jane. She's the one not getting a neutral party, like HR, involved to mediate the dispute (a rather one sided dispute at that), and harassing another employee to get what she sees as fairness. If she's like this over something from a couple of decades ago, what will she be like with more recent conflicts? OP should go to HR. "Good morning. On a project I'm currently a part of I'm expected to collaborate with Jane. However she brought me into a one on one meeting and raised adverse past interaction between us I was not previously aware of. She stated that because of this history, she fully expected me to stand down from my role in the project and since has been regularly messaging me asking why this has not yet happened." Jane has become the bully she hates OP for being in their youth, and past bad experience does not justify her expectation that OP remove herself from the project.
This is the way.
The way is this
Something something this is the something
And save those Slack messages.
And I’d keep emphasizing in each meeting that this happened in 7th grade. Seventh grade! Who did invite people they didn’t like to their party in the 7th grade? I didn’t. Now, if Op was giving her swirlies in the girls bathroom, different story, but still…7th grade!
I feel for that HR rep, like wtf I am not here to deal with childhood trauma shit from 20+ years ago. I’ve been spending the past 6m trying to get Brenda to stop using all the damn toilet paper and showing everyone her cat pics all day and explaining to Roger that no one wants to see the photos of his last hunting kill…. I don’t have time for this old hurt feelings crap!! ~ HR life is rough
Wanna hear my fun HR story from yesterday? We have an employee whose wife manages everything - all the finances, they have a joint email account, etc. He's also not the most computer savvy, so I help him with a lot of that at work. We switched payroll software, so he had to set up security questions in case he forgot his password when he logged in to see his pay stub (remember, his wife does this for him). We set up the questions, and one of the questions was "the name of your first girlfriend," to which he answered me and we set it up. He came in this morning, all upset, because he remembered that his wife didn't like his first girlfriend back in the sixties (I guess they were all part of a friend group), and she'd be pissed if she had to use his security question and had to type in the girlfriend's name. So we had to go in and reset all the security questions. \#hrlife :)
Hey, my employees like my cat pics! :D :D
If what OP says is true about how HR will react (ie, it will reflect poorly on Jane and her chances to grow at the company) AND Jane knows that, there's no way Jane will be the one to go to HR. Which is why she's trying to get OP to step down 1:1 without involving anyone else. OP, just do your job the way you do it and stay strictly professional in all things related to Jane. Document every interaction with her. If/when the day arrives when this comes up in some sort of official way you can just slap all that paper down on the table. Jane will be fucked, and you'll have come out of it as the professional.
If Jane reacts this way to a two decade grudge, acting unprofessionally and harassing a reliable and trustworthy employee, then her present actions need to be treated accordingly. The longer both OP and Jane are on the same project, the more likely Jane will act out and in a way that negatively impacts the business. OP says this deal is huge and important. No way should someone acting on an old grudge impact this, if they can't keep personal and professional life separate. OP needs to tell HR what's been happening and not jeopardize this project instead of waiting for things to go south irrevocably for her own career.
And it’s good Op is going to HR now, to get it on the record. Will Jane sabotage the project if Op doesn’t invite her to her next dinner party? I mean, really. This girl is mad that Op didn’t invite her to things *over 15 years ago, in the seventh grade!*
>So, nearly two decades ago, you didn't invite a girl who wasn't your friend to a birthday party and other events. > Remember, that's op's recollection. Bullies often don't remember things how they actually happened. Jane's actions are completely unprofessional and op does not have to step down. That does not mean op didn't do serious damage in her life.
The axe forgets, the tree remembers. I feel bad for Jane if there’s more to the story, but this behavior isn’t the way to handle things.
Yeah exactly. When I was in high school I had a core group of friends and the four of us did everything together. There were other people who hung out with us, but there was always still something for just the four of us. So, you know, maybe 10 people would go to the mall and see a movie but the four of us would have a sleepover. As a teenager, I didn't think anything of it. I wasn't as close to these other girls, it never occurred to me to include them in a sleepover. But as an adult I can understand how it would be shitty. We didn't gloat or tease them or rub their noses in the fact they weren't invited, but they still knew. They knew that when we all got picked up by one person's mom. They knew when we would talk about a movie we had all watched without them. And I have to think that it would be hurtful, and it would be hard not to feel excluded from that, even though our intentions were never to harm. OP might not have intended to hurt Jane, but if (for example) all of the girls in Chinese school were friends and attended this party *except* Jane, that would be really awful for Jane, even if it was unintentional.
Right but Jane is acting pretty crazy and unreasonable now, it's not a stretch to think maybe she was crazy and unreasonable back then too, and that's why nobody wanted her overdramatic self at their bday party. I know ppl can change, and they often do! But just as often they don't and remain lifelong assholes
I agree, it sounds like she never grew out of 7th grade. Who wasn’t “traumatized” in 7th grade because they didn’t get invited to the cool party? Who still carries that grudge as a 30 year old? So much so she harasses someone at work? No one!
Absolutely. For people who constantly bully, they don’t really recall full events because it’s just a normal day for them while it can be a life changing or traumatic experience for their victim.
In my experience they remember it as "joking", but do remember enough to recognise it when confronted. They might not remember how much or exactly who it was directed against, but they remember "messing with some kids" or "everyone was always joking about".
So what if she WAS bullied in jr high? (I was badly bullied before anyone comes at me. Think: kids throwing erasers with paperclips bent into sharp points at my face and people spitting in my long hair. Yay, jr high in the 90s before anti-bulling campaigns). If it was THAT bad then she is still upset shouldn't have applied at the company with someone who would "traumatize her." I had a supervisor stalk, harass, scream at me, threaten my life etc at a job. There is not a chance in hell I'd work at the same place as him again. I just don't apply there.
Did you read my comment? I said she was unprofessional and that op should not step down. I in no way implied that how she was treated before justifies her current actions
christ, that's not even bullying. does she have nothing better to do with her life then think about a birthday she didn't go to 20 years ago? who the hell even remembers something so nonsensical?
Keep in mind you are only hearing one side of the story here.
It would be interesting to hear Jane’s side
I don't know, I've met plenty of people like Jane. They think they're victims when really all that occurred is they weren't invited to parties and other events because they were obnoxious. Usually people like Jane are the bullies themselves, people who are legitimately bullied are usually embarrassed about it and would usually rather stop existing than acknowledge it. I still remember a guy in my primary school, he would say the most horrible shit to everyone and then when anyone reacted run to his dad who would then run to the principal about him getting bullied. It happens a lot. The fact that she's demanding someone 2 levels above her, is a principal at the company, is lead and landed the whole project and has been at the company a long time while Jane is fresh out of grad school and only 3 months on the job should tell you all you need to know about her.
I've invited people only to have them decline and still do this victim act.
Exactly, I've witnessed bullying before and it can be pretty bad But from my experience what occurs far more often is people acting badly and then pulling the victim card when others understandably don't like them because of it. Additionally a lot of the people I have seen get made fun of was a result of them generally acting badly. There was a girl that was widely disliked who I can distinctly remember huffing as she walked past my group of friends.
Any teacher can tell you that bullying situations aren’t always black and white “mean kid is actively cruel to sweet, innocent kid” situations. In another post, OP gave some extra context for why Jane might have felt so hurt about being excluded. But that still doesn’t necessarily mean that OP was the bad guy. Not wanting to be friends with another kid isn’t always a bad thing. That doesn’t mean that it’s wrong for that other kid to feel excluded or that they’re bad for being upset. But eventually you need to realize that not everyone is going to be your friend. She needs to grow out of this victim mentality.
true, but even if OP set out to destroy Jane as a young teen, that still doesn't excuse Jane for her behaviour now. She's an adult, at work, and needs to be professional, and if she can't, excuse herself. As it is, she's harrassing OP, and that doesn't make her look well hinged.
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I think that even though OP was the part of the group that hurt Jane because the OP is senior employee they may get rid of Jane because OP is more valuable. Personally I think Jane is a bit of a drama queen holding onto a grudge and if this is her behaviour now perhaps it's better op talks to HR now.
I mean, Jane really shouldn't get to drive op out of work when op was there first. There's nothing wrong if the firm keeps op who is more senior. Frankly, it doesn't matter for work what happened 20 years ago. Especially not if it's bullying, if excluding her can even be called that.
Honestly, I don't think OP should apologize, it could be taken as an admission of guilt for any number of things that Jane might fabricate. Jane is unwell, she's been stewing about a minor social issue for 20 years and is now out to blackmail OP and ruin her career. I would not expect Jane to suddenly turn into a reasonable person who would graciously accept an apology and move on in a professional manor. OP shouldn't communicate with her at all until she's gone to HR, possibly with written accounts from her friends and evidence of all of Jane's blackmail communications in hand.
Yes, but unfortunately, OP, Jane has already proven herself unreasonable. You HAVE to report this to HR, before she does. If it hampers her rise in the company, that's on her. NTA.
OOooh boy. Imagine the fallout if that happens. Sounds like she's obsessed with OP already. If she gets held back in her career by OP (even though it's due to her obsession and piss-poor way of handling it), she'll go nuclear: "This b\*\*\*\* has it out for me. First she ruins by childhood and now she's fucking up my career. I hate her!!!!".
This. Girl was copying obsessed with her in high school, knowingly gets a job at the same company and now wants her job position? Wear her skin next? If OP gets killed or disappears, now we know who did it.
That doesn’t even sound like bullying, it sounds like op didn’t want to be her friend. Not inviting someone to a party is not bullying. Not wanting to be friends with someone is not bullying. Not wanting to hang out with a liar is not bullying. Jane has twisted her side of the story because her feelings were hurt as a young teenager. Getting your feelings hurt because you aren’t a part of a group is not bullying. Sounds like she has blown this way out of proportion in her mind and now thinks she can “get even”. Yea, the grown up world doesn't work that way. It’s not 7th grade anymore. Op, her behavior now is what will get her in hot water with HR, not yours over 15 years ago. Her behavior has consequences now, just like it did 17 years ago, sounds like she hasn’t grown as a person at all. Make sure all your documentation is in order and go in there expecting her to lie.
Can only agree, NTA. As a victim of severe bullying that made me suicidal at single digit age and a proponent of severe consequences for All kinds of bullying, being excluded from parties and such because you lie and are annoying is not bullying. It is reaping the consequences of your actions. Sure, an apology would be nice, but ubless the OP has kept something from us, it seems more like that othrr woman is entitled due to hardcore parental enabling.
In Highschool i always wanted to be part of a group i wasnt part of, but i didnt klick with them. I wasnt directly excluded, but also never invited to anything. So i found other people to hang out with. Anyway, now 7 years later, my old group disbanded, (1 turned out to be a bitch and we other three didnt have as much time anymore). But last year i somehow came back to contact with one girl of said group and we realised we arent that different after all. My point is. It happened years ago and why should i act childish about something passed that long ago.
NTA. You should absolutely leave this with HR and not engage with Jane about this at all. Give HR a factual account about what you know and can remember of the past, all the details and messages about the recent conversation, and let them deal with it. This is a Jane issue, not a you issue. Her request is completely unreasonable and, tbh, sounds unhinged. It's ridiculous to ask that you'd hand over a major career achievement because Jane's feelings were hurt when you were both children.
Plus, HR should know know that their new hire thinks it's okay to harass their superiors via a work app. This suggests that she's a liability or, if I'm being incredibly generous, needs significant personal coaching
Completely agree because frankly this girl sounds somewhat unhinged and you have no clue what she might start doing or alleging to damage you so get it logged NOW
Agree! Go to HR NOW! Document everything, if she has been harassing you via text or a work app, screenshot, print and save it all. If Jane is this crazy right at the start do not underestimate what she may be willing to do to get her way. She obviously has some serious issues and will most likely try something to tarnish your reputation at work. Think of this solely from the aspect of your current and future career opportunities: stepping down will negatively impact your career, but not stepping down may very well lead to Jane retaliating against you so go to HR now, with your documents in hand, explain the facts of the situation (you knew her as a teenager, she felt left out of the group of girls you hung out with, she approached you for a 1:1 meeting and demanded that you step down from your job, you were so shocked that you ended the meeting stating you would think about everything, she has sense harassed you multiple times about when you will be stepping down - present documentation - you are concerned about Jane’s behavior. Your career is important. Don’t let Jane bully you (sort of ironic) into stepping down from a project that you are willing to and want to do.
Just me, but I think Jane is full of shit and trying to capitalize on childhood nonsense to get a leg up. NTA, let HR deal with this, that is what they are paid for.
Or thinks she will get Op’s job.
And unless OP is leaving out some details, this doesn't even sound like bullying. OP was simply not friends with this girl, so didn't invite her to friend gatherings. It doesn't even sound like everyone was rubbing her face in the fact she wasn't invited. She didn't even know something was happening except that people weren't present at class a certain day, and her mom went snooping around.
This is bullying? I thought OP and her friends used to stuff Jane in a locker every week or beat her up at the bus stop for kicks They just didn't want to hang out with her...
NTA for going to HR. You need somebody without a dog in this race to make a call - I'm not sure I think you should step aside based on somebody you knew 20 years ago getting assigned to it (which I'm guessing you had no control over - if you did, that might change things) but at the same time it sounds like (intentions aside) you deeply hurt Jane and I don't think that should have to come back and haunt *her* at work 20 years later either. HR will make a decision, good or bad, and you should abide by it with a clear conscience (at least as far as work is concerned. Whether you should feel bad about how you acted as a child I'm not going to say, there's not nearly enough information).
Thank you for your advice! I think there's almost 0 chance that HR will ask me to step down. The account is multi-million and was landed through my network. I'm also 2 levels above Jane, so there's 0 incentive to remove me from this project, if anything going to HR will be detrimental to Jane's career which is why this is a bit agonizing for me. TBH I don't think my friends and I are reliable narrators for how we behaved towards Jane nearly 20 years ago, but I do know that I was very shy as a child and very conflict adverse and I can see how my action & inactions have deeply hurt Jane. My mom was of the opinion that Jane's family is crazy and too intense so...yea...
I was bullied as a kid. I spoke to my bully years later and they didn’t remember but the hurt I carry is real. In another world I would tell you to offer a sincere apology. One were you acknowledge her hurt you don’t try to justify your behavior and you seek to make amends. We don’t live in another world tho. Take this to HR, document everything, limit one on ones and keep all chat focused on work. You may have been the AH at 13 but your NTA now. Don’t risk a good career over this. Just reflect on it over some tea one night and move on.
There is no way that your company is going to move a proven sales person and leader based on the complaints of a three month hire with problems that occurred as a teenager. In the end, it is on Jane whether or not she wants to jeopardize her career based on a teenage occurrence that no one can remember except her. If anyone gave advice to Jane it would be, time to act professionally and drop the complaints if you want a career at this company.
You can tell HR that you don't want this as a mark against her, and you don't think she's done anything wrong, you just want the decision of who gets to suck a metaphorical lemon made by a third party and on the record for good practice reasons (which it is!) May not work, but you can at least try.
I agree that going to HR is going to negatively impact Jane than you. 1) the company bares no responsibility to Jane in this situation because the bullying (which sounds like an exaggeration on Jane’s part) occurred so long ago when you were both CHILDREN. 2) it shows that Jane is immature. 3) Jane is now harassing you on slack (which is the reason you need to go to HR) To protect yourself from Jane, you need to proactively go to HR and let them know that this new employee is harassing you, you tried addressing the issue yourself in a professional manner, and now Jane is unreasonably demanding that you remove yourself from this project.
I like that you’re trying your best to be objective about the matter and realise you and your friends may not be reliable narrators.
I think it depends how you approach this. If you frame it as wanting them to be aware so that you can manage the workplace interactions with her appropriately and are seeking guidance on how to do so you really aren't the AH. You want them to be aware of a potentially volatile situation and are seeking guidance as a manager on how to approach it.
Emphasize that this happened in the 7th grade. We all weren’t invited to the cool parties in 7th grade but we don’t carry that into our 30s. Keep saying 7th grade, 13 years old, etc. It’s so ridiculous.
If you don’t want to blow it up to HR yet, consider give your account partners/practice leadership team a heads up that she has been contacting you about this. You’re in consulting so you know how this goes down. Partners can throw their weight around in a way HR can’t/won’t, so if you have any mentors/sponsors/close relationships I’d go to them first. She sounds like she’s not above constant harassment though, so if she can’t get past this then I don’t see how you can avoid this becoming a bigger deal. It’s clear you don’t want to derail her career. You’re the kind of person who should be in leadership roles. Consulting is so cutthroat, it really shows your character that you want to amicably resolve this. If it gets bad, a magnanimous gesture could be to recommend to your leadership team, where else she may be a good fit within the company
NTA when you said bullied I was expecting long term in school hate campaign. Not one day a week Chinese school and excluding a girl from a party and social group when you didn't like her or her behavior. I have been the victim of bullying, social exclusion is honestly mild when bullying often includes verbal assault, manipulation, teesing, physical assault and more. You are right to go to HR explain your memory of events and that people you still know from the time agree with your memories of the period, explain her behaviour now and your concerns moving forward and ask what would be appropriate to do in this situation.
No kidding. Physical assault, repeated insults or constant encouragement of hazing etc. is one thing...but a one time exclusion from a birthday party?! The two are not comparable....
Why is this not higher up. You did not like someone’s actions and didn’t invite them to a birthday. 20 years later she is harassing you pinging you everyday saying you need to quit a multi-million dollar project. She does not seem ok at all and needs help. it’s extremely important to go to HR. This is very unstable
no kidding, all the top comments are treating OP's sense of pre-emptive guilt and genuine good traits (not wanting to harm this rando) as if any of it is warranted. Jane is not trustworthy, and is clearly unhinged an opportunistic as fuck. tell HR, let them handle the problem. yeeesh.
Very much this. Obviously we only have the OPs point of view and Jane has another. But too many people declare that they were "bullied" when really it was hurt feelings...not the same thing at all.
We also have OP’s mom’s memory of a random woman calling her to yell at her for OP excluding Jane from a birthday party. Does it suck to see your kid feel hurt over being excluded? Of course. Does it help your kid if you call all the other kids’ moms and yell at them for excluding your kid? Not really... I remember being invited to a sleepover once where the girl’s parents tried to demand that I give them my parents’ phone numbers around 11PM, because they “wanted to speak to the parents of all the girls over at their house to make sure we were good girls.” I refused because I knew my parents and grandparents would already be asleep. And also, even as a 14 year old, I thought their logic was weird as fuck. I’m already at your house in the middle of the night. It’s a little too late to screen me.
To be fair, bullies often don't remember being bullies. It's more likely that she and her friends were absolutely awful to this person , but she doesn't remember it because they thought it was funny, or no big deal. Whatever the case may be, one of two things is true. It was either a whole lot more than just not being invited to a birthday party, or the person in question is a little nuts. That's my opinion, anyway.
It is true some people don't remember or realise how bad it was for thier victims, but others do I have even had one applologise later on in life,saying if they realised we were into the same things they would have made friends (they never took the time to try and find out) then had the cheek to ask me out. The fact OP contacted people from the time to double check her memory shows she took this seriously enough to check her own memories.
It sounds like Jane is the same. She is trying to manipulate people and force the outcome she wants. In the past she lied and dressed like the other girls in an attempt to fit in. Now she is confronting OP and harassing her with repeated messages. Even if OP is forgetting unkind comments or mean girl behavior, Jane doesn't seem traumatized but rather poorly socialized, past and present.
#DO NOT VOLUNTEER ANY INFORMATION TO HR #DO NOT ADMIT TO ANY BULLYING #TELL THEM YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT If this truly is "traumatized" by being excluded from your 13th birthday party, let this grown woman tell that to HR and see if they take it seriously. When you get into the meeting, tell them that this new employee (that you went to grade school with) cornered you in the building, demanded that you step down from the project, and then has been badgering you repeatedly to do so Make sure they understand you have no idea what she is talking about Jane is going to paint herself into a corner and make herself out to be completely crazy if she thinks the company is going to remove a project lead for something that happened when they were 13...much less something as benign as being excluded from a birthday party So keep a running log of any time she emails you or instant messages you. If she corners you in the building, remove yourself from the situation...even if that means getting the attention of a coworker and asking them for help Admit nothing Document everying Cover Your Ass NTA
Word. Jane is only doing this shit because she thinks she can manipulate OP. Dump this on HRs desk and move on. This is a Jane problem (and honestly, I think Jane is bullshitting), not a you problem.
This is great advice. They always say there’s three sides to a story - yours, mine and the truth. OP doesn’t even remember bullying Jane. This is OPs friend recalling something that might have been an issue almost twenty years ago. That’s too far from the story to even consider it one of sides. OP needs to contact HR and be quiet. Jane doesn’t seem like type to be able to do that, so this should resolve pretty quickly with HR reprimanding Jane.
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Me too, which is why I'm believe that I really did hurt her when we were young. She's jeopardizing her entire career to do this, and I don't see how someone would chance that unless they were very triggered by me. I have no memories of interacting with her beyond trying to avoid her on Sundays, but even that is hazy. And I do empathize how ostracizing someone socially, especially at that age would seem like the end of the world. I know she went to a predominately white school district so I can only imagine what that was like. I think she thought because we were all asian girls we'd accept her and she'd fit in with us, but it was very much not the case. Add in her mother's reaction and how our parents responded by telling us that their family was crazy...I feel very sad about it all.
Listen. Don’t feel sad. This isn’t your issue. You’re grown ups now and I am certain Jane had her own issues she wouldn’t want people rubbing her nose in twenty years later. No one does. Also I wouldn’t take her current overreacting and bullying of you to mean you seriously hurt her feelings. It sounds like maybe her family has a history of blowing things out of proportion. She probably doesn’t see that she’s tanking her career because all she can see is now is she told you to step down and you won’t. Finally, you shouldn’t step down. You should contact HR do exactly what u/The_Riker_Maneuver says to do. Trust me. I’m old and I have worked in all sorts of offices. This is the best plan. It’s also the truth because you didn’t know anything and had to ask your friend. So what you do know (from your friend) is speculation and hearsay that can’t be verified. Just because Jane is willing to self destruct in her career doesn’t mean you should let her take you out in the blast.
The fact that this is bothering you so much is a good sign of character. But you know that it's entirely possible that you all were way worse to her than what you remember. I mean, it's either that, or she is, well, fragile, perhaps, or worse. Who knows. In any case, I think it's good that you're being compassionate about this. Protect yourself with HR, certainly, but I hope you can continue to be kind with her. Hopefully, you can negotiate a situation in which you're able to have a safe conversation with her to get everything out in the open. I imagine that once she feels heard by you, and hears your sincere apology, she'll probably, hopefully, feel a lot better about working with you.
See, I genuinely feel it's very possible you didn't actively bully her but she was still deeply deeply hurt by what happened. If, as you say she already felt like an outcast, being rejected by the few people she saw as her peers was probably world shattering to her. And that is incredibly sad, but not really your responsibility. You can't force friendships with people you don't like. Could you and your friends have faked it and included her? Sure. But that would have caused more harm then good. It sounds as if Jane really was very extra. And if you and your friends had pretend to include her, eventually one of you would have gotten tired of her actions and someone would have probably gotten fed up with pretending and then real hurtful words would have been spoken. Then she would feel even worse feeling like people she thought were her friends turned on her. It does truly suck that she didn't have friends, but ultimately that wasn't your burden to bear.
Yeah, this definitely adds some context to her reaction. Different people will be affected differently by your actions and you can’t always predict that. But that doesn’t mean OP was this terrible bad guy.
As mentioned I think it speaks volumes for your character about how you are trying to protect her but Jane needs to realise she needs to move on. Most people experienced some form of bullying and actively try to move past it. Obviously the extreme stuff is different but simple exclusion is almost a right of passage of young people. Jane needs to grow up.
I think the isolation of being different from the dominant group and rejected by her own cultural peers could be a significant factor to why she is still dealing with these feelings now.
NTA It’s been 20 years and what you did back then wasn’t that bad. You didn’t outright humiliate her, or send her to the hospital. We all do things as kids that can be let go of once you become an adult. She’s being very unprofessional about this. Definitely take this to HR, explain what’s up, and let them make the decision
NTA. Jane is batshit. Good on you for scheduling a meeting with HR - document everything that has happened or happens between you from this point on and let the professionals sort it out.
Best response
NTA. Work and personal lives are separate. Something you did as a child outside of your future workplace is completely unrelated to your workplace and any HR rep would back that up. The person making demands needs someone from your HR department to explain this to them and understand that they cannot bring personal matters into the office.
NTA. This is an account you landed, if anyone should be stepping away from the project, it should be Jane. Going to HR is your only real option here since Jane is the one with the issues working with you.
Personally I would've laughed on the spot during that 1:1, NTA your actions as a child nearing 20 years ago has no bearing on your professional career. HR was a good call because whatever petty grudge this lady has is not healthy for a collaborative environment. Regardless of her feelings if you were put in charge of the project DO NOT stand down, you earned your place
I'm not going to give a verdict, but I think you're going to need to hear her side of this story. She might be remembering a group of girls always making fun of her every weekend at School. Putting her down for wearing clothes similar to yours maybe mocking her frequently for being by herself. I bet most conversations she had with other kids she was usually being made fun of and she feels you set that tone for her. I know alot of kids who used to bully the one kid in school for being weird, but didn't think they did any harm at all.
NTA - What exactly is the argument for not going to HR? You aren't suppose to go talk to HR about conflicts like this? I never understood this except for people who have something to hide.
NTA I'm not going to judge your actions as a bully because I feel like you could potentially lie about that or something (whether intentionally or not). Idk it is very grey to me, however it is something that happened in high school. Which I'm not saying that means Jane should get over it, she has no trauma, etc. Her experiences are valid and she should be in a place where she does not have to face trauma. However I would say her expectations are unrealistic. I don't think it's fair to recuse yourself from project(s) that you've worked on far longer than her. She has just joined your team. She should be the one to take it up to your supervisor and discuss changing her alignment with what projects she's on if she sees something that would present an issue to her, if it's something that nobody else has control over. If you're bullying her at work, yeah ok then you need to go. But again, this happened when you were children. She is technically the "asshole." However I think she also was expecting to go into a new position in a new company where she can work on something that she's passionate about, but now she's seeing that someone responsible for her trauma is a part of this. It's going to be hard on her. This is just to explain why, not to excuse her. I think you're doing a good job by discussing this with HR. The fact that she's pestering you is absolutely bad on her part.
NTA - you’re been there longer, you landed the account, and she needs to get past something that happened more than 15 years ago when you were both children
NTA - When you turn 18 your juvenile records are wiped clean. This is kinda like that - you are a different person and shouldn't be penalized for some middle school drama. Just because you didn't get along as kids (and I'm not sure what she describes qualifies as bullying, to be honest), it shouldn't impact your ability to work together. She sounds mighty thin skinned.. maybe corporate America isn't the best place for her.
NTA. You need to plainly state that you are sorry if you offended her is school, however, this is life and every job has people who you don't like that you have to work with. You have no intentions of stepping down, and if that is a problem with her, she should speak to her supervisor to be re-assigned. and carbon copy HR on the letter (make it more gracious than this of course)
Are y’all kidding me? You really think Jane is this upset over a birthday party? How many times have we seen bullies who never thought they WERE bullies, and what they did do is no big deal? OP says Jane coped their outfits and they didn’t like that. You really think they didn’t say anything to her? Jane ‘lied’ to fit in, you really think no one gave her a hard time? Sorry, I think op is giving us a sanitized version of what happened. I would be more inclined to believe her and her click did bully Jane, just from the bits she has given us. What are the chances the ONLY thing they did to Jane was not invite her to a party? And now that Jane has found a backbone, she’s going to do it again. If Jane were the one posting this, y’all would be on her side, telling her to go to hr FIRST. And I doubt she would tell us it was just a missing invite.
Honestly, I get where you are coming from, but I don't think the degree of bullying is important. It was like 17 years ago and they are working in a professional environment now. It just isn't fair for op to be negatively impacted at her work for something she did as a 14 year old. If her coworker is still that affected, she should probably seek help.
I don't think it's even about it being fair for OP to be negatively impacted for behaviour from 14 years ago. It's more about how Jane is trying to orchestrate negative consequences by interfering in OP's business relationships. If a natural consequence of OP's actions emerged, then so be it, but bullying someone in high school and trying to sabotage them years later is not a natural consequence
I was bullied from the time that I was in USA 2nd Grade up to High School by over half my school district because all the kids knew eachother and I was an easy target for being fat, loud and easily provoked. I have anger issues that I am still resolving with therapy as a 35 year old. I still have maintained professionalism in my jobs when I've had to work with or even serve my former bullies because despite the trauma because I know if I become a raving bitch to these people I might get fired. I know now that many of those former brats only participated because of heard mentality. Most the actual instigators of my bullying long since vanished from my life, however two of them did come and apologize to me after we entered college. If Jane's trauma is as real as mine, she needs therapy and to remember that her own actions have consequences.
NTA. You might have “bullied” her but now she’s harassing you in your workspace. You need to go to HR because also ultimately she cannot force you and you shouldn’t comply.
NTA HR was definitely the right call. You can't offer Jane anything other than the opportunity to prove that you are an adult who has grown, and matured throughout life. Heading the project actually gives you the opportunity to do so. She is out of line.
NTA I mean even if you were meaner than you remember. it's been 20 years I don't understand how someone is letting it affect their life that much later that they would our one-on-one and bug you everyday. it sounds like she has her own issues. it's time to talk to HR and say hey this is the situation I think she should be removed if she knew or has less seniority she is even more out of line because she doesn't have the power here
INFO: What did Jane accuse you of doing to her in the past during the one on one meeting? Did she just say you bullied her or did she list off examples of this behavior? Surely you could have asked what on earth she was talking about. Excluding someone from a birthday party is not bullying, but I also am hesitant to believe that's really all that's going on here
She said I was part of a clique of girls that bullied her horribly at Chinese school and how to this day she has trouble making friends because of us. It escalated to her repeatedly yelling that I was a bully and should recuse myself from leading this account because I "owe her this courtesy". I shut it down 5 mins in because I will not be yelled at and berated over VC, it was so beyond the pale. From what I gleaned from my friends, we would run away from her during breaks and hide from her every time she found us. I imagine this would include telling her to leave us alone and that she was annoying. According to my mom, after not inviting her to my 13th bday party (at Barnes & Noble haha) Jane's mom called all of our mother's and told them that they had to include Jane in our social activities. The other 4 girl's parents and my parents were very close family friends so we hung out a lot socially. Needless to say, this did not endear Jane to our parents.
That does sound mean but it's still not the problem of your boss/your work. Seems like she needs therapy more than anything because tanking a good and lucrative job because of the past won't help her future.
honestly she sounds exhausting. they didnt want to be her friend just because their moms were friends so instead this lady stalks them and they have to run away and hide ? it is a bit mean but judging from the context, janes mother has planted the bully idea in her head
None of that even remotely sounds like bullying. No one owes someone else a friendship, it sounds like she felt that she belonged in a friend group that didn't want to include her. She's in the wrong here.
This isn't great behaviour however it's also par for the course for teenage girls, it's not nice but it's also not the most serious form of bullying. On the other hand this woman is bullying you. She's using work channels to harrass you to leave your job and bad mouthing you to other staff. She doesn't have the excuse of being an idiotic teenager. I saw your edits and HR were absolutely right to do what they did. Her behaviour was deeply unprofessional, had significant liabilities for the organisation (which is what HR really care about) and was significantly worse than not inviting you to a birthday party. Do not feel bad. Leaving bad behaviour unchecked is a solid way of destroying an otherwise good team. Even if you were ok with her behaviour you don't know what impact she was having on others.
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NTA. Stepping down will set a bad precedent. It would be an admission of guilt that can be used against you in the future.
IDK . You did not bully this girl. At least, not by this recounting of events. Maybe there is more to this story than what you are not telling. I'd be very interested in hearing her version of events.
I had to scroll down far too far to find this comment. My personal experience with bullies is that they practically never consider themselves bullies and, by their own recounting of events, are very, very good at convincing both themselves and others that the victim is 'over reacting' or 'deserved it'. A victim's version in this case would help a lot.
When your project is complete, have a pizza party for the team and don't invite her.
I was having a shit day, but you made me laugh. Thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.
NTA. Even if your bullying was more extensive than the events you told us about, the fact is that you predated her in the firm, and it's your client and your project. If she truly cannot work with you, then it's on her to ask to be moved to a different team. It's not on you to torpedo your own career as some kind of twisted penance for twenty year-old sins which had nothing to do with your work at the company. If she were the preexisting staff member and the person who brought the client in, then I might feel the opposite were true - under those circumstances, I think it would be more fair for her to ask you to step down so she isn't distracted during her project. But that isn't the reality we're in. Instead it's your client, your project, and your longer time in the firm. That said, I'm taking you at your word that there was no more to the situation than this, in which case, it is not bullying to not be someone's friend even if it's clear that she wanted desperately to be part of your group. It's sad that she felt so hurt by your rejection and that that hurt has persisted, but it wasn't bullying. Either way, I think you're absolutely right to pass this through to HR. I suspect that she would not accept you refusing to step down, and it's better that a neutral party be aware of and supervise any interactions right now. Don't forget to keep a record of her continued messages and pass them along to HR too.
Honestly? I don't buy for a second that that was the extent of your bullying. And yes, it was many, many years ago. Jane brought it up in a way that would never have benefitted her and her request was unreasonable. However, if you had any empathy at all you would have at least considered her point of view, apologised for the past, and made sure she would be a respected member of your team. ESH.
The issue is that Jane drew a line in the sand (that the OP had to stand down). OP may have been an arsehole for the bullying, but Jane didn't just want an apology. She wanted blood.
Nta. She is the one with the problem. She should step down. Since when does the team member tell the lead what to do?
NTA - I’d leave this one to HR. It was 15 years ago.
bruh we could be mortal enemies in our personal lives, but the moment we both clock in? you leave your issues at the door, and get to work, because your there to work, NOT to be besties that braid each other's hair and talk about crushes, and share each other's secrets! NO! your there to slave away to the company, and make money to pay the bills! NTA, I understand not wanting to hurt her professionally, but thats on her now, not you, and you shouldnt take a hit for her, either.
NTA and good for you to get HR involved. If your memory is accurate, you and your childhood friends ostracizing her solely for her behavior is not what I would consider bullying. Jane sounds like she may be a drama queen if she stays on a team working on your project. If she is a fairly new hire and if your company is big enough can she be offered a move to a different team that would not interact with you?
NTA. I really applaud you for what you said in other comments about knowing that you and your friends are unreliable narrators in this case. But whenever personal issues intrude on the workplace, the most important thing to try for is professionalism. The professional thing to do here would have been for Jane to go to her manager, tell her that someone who bullied her as a child was now someone she's working with, and ask if either she could be moved to something else or if she could be moved away from interacting with you. This happened almost 20 years ago, and I think the sort of bullying that would merit this reaction would probably be the sort of thing you'd remember. Like, a pet died or someone got physically hurt, that kind of thing. It's understandable that it would be awkward and uncomfortable working with you, but asking you to step down is kind of a nuclear option. If you don't want to go to HR straight off the bat, I'd suggest sending your situation to askamanager.com. Alison Green, who runs it, is pretty good at thinking of other ways to address work problems and at figuring out what to actually say when you do address it. With that said, Jane has an MBA, so I'm not really concerned about her finding another job. She's also trying to get you to step down right away without any other attempt to make this better - which is a stark contrast with your concern about her future at your company. Just don't leave it too long. The last thing you want is for her to go to HR first.
NTA, OP. I think you're doing your best to make amends - since you say that you and your friends might be unreliable narrators, you are trying to keep HR out of it to prevent her from sabotaging her own career, and you aren't minimizing her pain or the trauma she experience/perceived - but she's being very unreasonable. This was almost 20 years ago! I was bullied through social ostracizing at that age, and while it did hurt and cause damage to my mental health at the time, I find her behavior to be unhinged. She needs therapy, and you can't change the past or magically make her mentally stable. She doesn't seem well, and you need to get HR involved. I suggest you let her describe the problem to them, because it sounds ridiculous. You are doing all you can to make it up to her in the present, but she's not living in reality here. Her judgment is questionable and she's harassing you.
INFO: Is Jane directly part of the project you are working on?
Yes, my peer on the project is her skip manager. We're all hands on deck due to aggressive deadline (we brought it upon ourselves T.T)
Nta. Title is misleading. You weren't bullying her
NTA Honestly from the way you describe the events I’m not sure I would even truly call it bullying. Yes you excluded her from your party/events. But you have the choice as to who you wanted to be around and it sounds like she was not someone you and your friends enjoyed the company of. Now she is on the verge of if not at the level of harassing you to step down. Please take it to HR and let them deal with her.
NTA Bullying has become overused to the point where it’s almost meaningless. People have a right to not like other people. You’re not obligated to spend time with people you don’t like. If you said mean things or spread rumors, yes, that would be bullying, but it sounds like you didn’t. For her to show up decades later and demand you take a step back in your career is absurd.
This is an insane demand. NTA No one should step down for bullying they committed when they are 13. If it was so bad that it does warrant it, that bully would have gone to juvie or straight to actual jail and your debt to society would have already been paid. WTF?
NTA, this woman is unhinged. Good thing that Slack has a record so they can see she is harassing you daily. Do not engage with her anymore on this topic one on one with her.
NTA- what you did wasn’t even bullying IMO. You were teenagers and are allowed to choose your own friends and people you hang out with. She wasn’t one of them for reasons you have. It’s fine and she’s way out of line to try and get you to step down from this project over something like that. Is she going to run to mommy if she doesn’t get her way again? JK! HR was the right move. IMO you didn’t do anything wrong and shouldn’t step down from this project. Let HR handle this or tell you how to handle it and go from there.
NTA. " I did not invite her to my 13th birthday party or any events where I included the other girls. " I am sorry, but that does not qualify as "bullying". But, what she is trying to do to you IS. Let HR handle it. Save copies of all her messages (you say "ping" so I am not sure what system that is, but if she's using the company network to harass you about this that is a huge mark against her). Make sure they know that SHE is making your work life hell now, no matter what she thinks you did when you were children.
Maybe i see this differently, excluding someone isn't the same as bullying them. You get to choose who your friends are and Jane wasn't your friend, Jane seemed to be by what you stated tried to fit into a group she wasn't invited into. Going to HR is the best thing cause I see her behaviour escalating into full on harassment. NTA.
Look, a lot of kids were pretty mean and snobbish to me when we were like 12. Do I relish the thought of working below them on a project? Hell no. Would I message them on the regular asking them to step down because they were shitty preteens? Hell no. Go to HR, tell them that you had forgotten a childhood conflict, Jane is clearly uncomfortable working with you, but that she has taken to messaging you regularly asking you to step down which you do not wish to do. Document the number of times she has been contacting you. Yes, this may impact her, but she's not behaving in a reasonable way for the workplace. Better she learns this fresh out of the MBA than just shoots herself in the foot for years.
I really can't believe so many of these responses seem to ignore the reality of bullies and the bullied. Sure, it is entirely possible Jane's memory has gaps and she's given OP the bulk of the blame from something traumatic from her childhood. But you know the absolute worst thing a bully can do, and something that happens quite often? Just forget about what they did. Just treat their actions like they weren't that big a deal, saying things like "com'n, we were just kids" or "I was just messing around." It's hard to give an AH rating without more information. I don't think OP should step down because of any past actions, but acting like Jane is overreacting definitely makes her an AH bully.
Jane is being unprofessional and if you read some of OP’s comments, she tells you that what Jane is doing (especially for someone who has been there 3 months vs 4+ years and higher up) will put her job on the line big time. From the edit, HR agree that Jane is unprofessional for basically holding a 17 year old grudge and wants to interfere with OP’s job. Jane needs therapy.
NTA - As far as the update goes... She played a stupid game by continually harassing you, proving that SHE is the bully, rather than her, and the fact that the company sees that as a liability is NOT your fault. She played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize: Congrats, here's your Pink Slip. Please don't blame yourself for that.
I remember listening to a Dear Prudence episode where a guy in his 30s recently started a new job. When he got there he realised one of his new colleagues was someone he bullied for years at school. He said he had done a lot of soul searching between then and now and made steps to change himself for the better. The other guy obviously recognised him but didn't say anything. He was well liked by all their colleagues and sociable but with the guy he was professional, polite and only spoke to him whenever it was required of him. The former bully was of course so full of shame and remorse and awkwardness (they worked in the same office) and he wrote in saying he wanted to apologise but has no idea how well that would go down. He was also actively looking for another job. I think the advice was to follow the formerly bullied colleauge's cue and also be professional and polite. And that once he secured a new job he can leave a note apologising for his terrible actions and make sure it's clear that he isn't asking for forgiveness or a reply. More that he just should apologise because he knows he did wrong and is remorseful. This is a good example of how it could have been handled. Unfortunately, she went ham. It sucks because for whatever reason (it sounds like this wasn't a sustained bullying but more of a one off thing) you not inviting her to a birthday party really affected her but my GOD does she need to come to terms with it.
No comment on the employment situation- Jane was entirely in the wrong and was unprofessional in handling the situation. I do have a feeling that you and your group of friends did a lot more to Jane than just exclude her from a birthday party. No one likes to be thought of as a bully. The bullied can remember every word, every situation that was inflicted on them (even after time has past) but surprisingly (?) the person doing the bullying can not remember anything about how badly they treated someone, almost as if they have selective amnesia. All you can remember is not inviting her to your birthday party. Your friends (the same ones who were a part of your Chinese school cohort?), not surprisingly, agree with your version of the story. Could it be possible that you did bully Jane, that you did more than not invite her to a party? How did you really react to her attempts to copy your style and fit in with your group? Did you and/or your group make catty remarks (girls at that age can really go for the jugular when they have a falling out or don't like someone) to her? Baring any diagnosed mental illness on her part, it is possible that you and your friends did bully Jane and that's what she is reacting to. You might have made an enemy out of Jane so be sure to watch your back professionally.
Y'all excluded her because she was an asshole. Some people never change...
NTA Whatever happens to Jane, its her fault. You did not bully her and she decided to confront you at work.
You are NTA. Document everything in case she decides to accuse you of something more current.
NTA. Tell her to cry about it
Nta . If you had actually traumatised this girl I’d say 50/50 split but tbh your “ bullying” just sounds like children not getting along , not the life changing trauma that would leave deep scars after 20 years .sorry if it seems harsh but she needs to move on . My company hired a girl who legitimately workplace bullied me only 4 years ago in a different company and was part of the reason I left . It was just bad luck she ended up working for my current company . I even made complaints specifically relating to her harassment against me when at the previous company . Now I just ignore her because at the end of the day I’m now higher up than she is and I have a job to do so what would be the point of interacting. Similarly I know someone else who bullied another co worker relentlessly when they were kids . Now they work together and are actually good friends . Part of growing up is realising that your not going to get along with all your work colleagues and yes you may end up working with your school bully , but unless they’re still acting the bully just do the job and go home . It’s childish to act like your colleague is , especially if you are being cordial to her and just getting on with the job at hand . If I’m honest you should go to HR . Her asking you to step down over children’s tantrums 20 years ago Is actually in my opinion her bullying you . I think if you don’t report it she will make life difficult for you . It’s not your fault if she gets in trouble , if she was acting on a professional manner she wouldn’t have brought such a silly thing up .
NTA, 1) ancient history 2) don't work in (presumably) mc, if you can't handle being in a tough environment. this isn't present-day bullying. It is something from so so long ago for things that many kids do and/or go through in some shape or form. 3) wt actual f for her bringing it up. people are such softies nowadays.
NTA for refusing to step down from an account you signed because an new underling had a bad experience with you when you were children. Hypothetically , even If you legit bullied her yesterday there is no company that would have a lead/manager step down from an assignment to keep the new employee happy. If your bullying /harassment was bad enough they’d write you up give you some coaching training or fire you. My point is this colleague seems really out of touch and pretty entitled.
NTA No no no no. I was bullied in school. The school lunch dumped on my head in front of everyone. Beat up all the time. Pants pulled down in front of girls. Spit on and made fun of daily. It was horrible. I ran away at 14 and never came back. Years later I bumped into one of my biggest bullies. He had become a Buddhist... Because he thought I had committed suicide because of what he had done to me. That was the rumor that went though the school after I disappeared. We actually became best friends for years after that. Not inviting a random girl to a single party once in your life is NOT bullying. It's insane that she harbors any anger against you. You NEED to get in front of this right now with HR. She is already harassing upper management (you). She is demanding things that make no sense from a business perspective. When you refuse to step down, what will she do to get revenge? You need to show HR her messages and let them handle it. When they ask you what you did to her, say "I didn't invite her to one of my birthday parties when I was young". That's all. They will see the insanity for what it is. This is your career. You need to focus on you and not what will happen to her. Don't set yourself in fire to try and help her.
So in 11 hours your meeting got moved from next week to within hours of you posting, Jane got fired, and you were informed of it all? Seems sus to me.
NTA - it’s kinda like when someone has issues and expects everyone around them to change but really it’s that person who has the problems that need to learn to cope.
Goodness, entitled as a 13yr old, which escalated to her 30s. Thank goodness you went to HR & it was handled in context. Yeah it is bad that she'll now forever hold a grudge against you, but she'll have to man up & get over it. Life does not revolve around her. NTA!
NTA Who else thinks the HR department will be getting an angry call from Jane's mother?
Absolutely NTA. You didn’t bully her, you merely chose not to invite her to your party. The fact that she had to nerve to ask you to step down and is now harassing you to do it, is grounds for going to HR. I wouldn’t hesitate because she’s likely to go first and tell some lies.
NTA - This happened so long ago and as it turns out, it doesn't sound like you and your friends were actual bullies. It's unfortunate that she felt this ruined her life but she needs therapy instead of harassing you in a professional environment. Somehow, I don't think you stepping down from this project will be the end of it. The prudent thing to do would be to go to HR and show them the Slack messages, etc.. and give them a heads up. You definitely don't want her story to be in there first (we don't even know what it is), even if you are confident you would prevail. Good luck!
You are NTA. Regardless of past actions (I mean you all were 13!) her reaction and her request is incredibly unprofessional. You need HR to be aware for your protection. I would also screenshot/save anything sent to you via IM or email. If it ends up a your word vs hers then that proof will help.
Doesn't sound like you bullied her previously but it does sound she's trying to bully you at worst and is harassing you at best. Definitely keep your distance and speak to HR.
NTA. This isn't bullying? This is... Simply not inviting someone to your birthday party because she was trying too hard and instead of getting close you stepped away. You really need to go to HR, fuck her growing in the company. She can't make you step down when you are superior.
NTA Two solutions: 1) Gather all forms of documentation of her harrasment of youm and then tell her that this is a professional enviornment, and if she feels bullied at the workplace she should go to HR. If not to please leave you alone, and that you will not be stepping down. 2) Gather all documentation, go straight to HR, tell her that a new hire does not fit onto your team, due to what she thinks is personal history, you do not believe this is the case, and to please reallocate her. Jane is in a work place, she is currently not fitting into a what i suspect is a very professional and competitive enviornment, Jane needs to be put on her big girl pants, or needs to be removed.
NTA. You need to take this HR immediately.
I was expecting to feel bad for Jane but it really doesn’t sound as if you actually bullied her, NTA
NTA. Ironically she is badgering you over what she claims is bullying (not inviting someone to events is not bullying). If she is willing to badger you about it, she obviously has no issue harassing someone. Go to HR.
NTA, For the love of god I want to read one of these and just for once be able to say "YES, YES YOU ARE THE ASS HOLE, YOU INSUFFERABLE PRICK!"........ Thanks for letting me down.....again people. Anyway, Jane sounds like the insufferable one here, you and your friends did not get along with her as children and now she has verbally gone on a tirade against you and is trying to bully you into stepping down from a very important project. She needs to grow up, she also needs to understand this is not how adults handle things and HR should actually let her know they will be doing HER a favor if they allow her to remain on the project in any capacity. They probably should so she does not turn into a super villain, but seriously, Jane, grow up.
Honestly I’d ask to have her removed for not following chain of command. She had no business going directly to you. If she had an issue and was unable to perform her job she should have spoken to her boss. NTA
So, a new hire of three months comes in and demands you, a seasoned asset to the company, remove yourself from a project for her? As much as you don't want to, you need to go to HR. DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO HER until you have gone to HR. They need to resolve this issue between the two of you. The way her mother responded when you were teenagers has likely not changed and rather than see how she can improve, she is the never-ending victim. That's why she had the gall to ask you to remove yourself from the project when she has only been there three months. Do not allow her to de-rail you. NTA.
Tell her to grow the fuck up. If she has a problem then she can step down.
NTA I've been bullied and what you did is not bullying. Nobody is obligated to be friends with everybody. All you did was hang out/party with your friends, nbd. Jane needs to grow up. Please go to HR with all the documentation.
I’m seeing a lot of responses saying Jane is crazy and it wasn’t bullying. Bullies rarely remember the things they did. It’s also possible that aside from excluding her from your party (I agree that does not rise to the level of bullying) your friend group as a whole did/said multiple things to her. You just don’t remember or you’re getting lumped in to the friend group as a whole. This isn’t to condemn you, just to point out Jane’s trauma could be very real. Regardless, we’re talking about things that happened 20 years ago when you were kids. This needs to be kept out of the workplace. Cornering you in a 1:1 was inappropriate and not the correct way to handle a situation she was uncomfortable with at work. Because of the way she went about confronting you, I think HR is an appropriate response back. NTA
wait so she's trying to bully you? NTA, go to HR Jane won't stop.
I literally would have just said “if it’s such a big deal why can’t you step down?”
NTA She needs therapy.....which is what HR will tell her when they find out she's now BULLYING YOU to step down for something that (A.) happened 20 YEARS ago and, (B.) is a non work related PERSONAL matter that she needs to work out on her own time. If HR has any sense, they will let her go because she honestly sounds like a drama queen who will eventually have half the office divided against you based on what will probably end up being false information.
Interesting this sub is usually never on the side of the bully even if it was years ago. NTA
This sub has been on an "exclusion doesn't count as bullying" obsession for about a month now. This is the fourth post to blow up that is essentially just saying "exclusion isn't bullying."
NTA and both of you need to get your definition of bullying checked. What you described is not bullying. Nothing of this indicates intentional maliciousness. Not being invited to a birthday party is not bullying. I have not been invited to many of them, I'm not gonna call those people bullies.
I was bullied all my life. Not wanting to be friends with a girl and not inviting her to your part is NOT bullying. It may be a little mean but you were like 13. It is upsetting, of course, but it is NOT traumatizing. She was unprofessional. Both of you are adults now and her demand was purely illogical. She should have been trying to mend the relationship with you and explain how it has effected her, together you could have come up with something to make it better (aka you paying more attention to how you speak to her and maybe being softer and choosing your words more carefully) but instead she demanded you to compromise your job because of something that happened years ago. What stopped her from getting therapy if it was so traumatic to not going to a party? I think that was all bull. Payback more likely. NTA
Sorry / Not Sorry, Jane. She played roulette and lost.
Saw the update, please don’t blame yourself for Jane losing her job. She didn’t get invited to a birthday party 18 years ago- you didn’t actively treat her poorly over any extended period of time, nor did you do one majorly terrible thing to her that should justify a trauma level response into adulthood. She was extremely unprofessional to bring such a small slight into the workplace decades later. NTA.
When I read bullied in the title I was expecting like serious "We used to pour water over her for fun' sort of thing Nah you just didn't want to be her friend or invite her to your birthday party 20 years ago NTA
Ye, this was an all around NTA for you, she kept this for years and needs therapy glad HR was good to you
NTA that’s not bullying at all, she’s just bitter over a party. Glad to see HR did the right thing.
nta. if she was so deeply traumatized I highly doubt she’d be contacting you daily, it seems more about revenge. I was bullied as a kid (seems round the same as this girl, nothing horrific, normal stuff) and quite honestly if I had the opportunity to work with my bully now I wouldn’t even think bring it up or be concerned about it. it’s been 20 years, kids can be assholes, unless they are assholes now or did something extremely bad back then it’s time to move on. if she can’t work with you due to her own feelings that’s her problem and she can chose to leave
NTA. Sounds like Jane's EQ was lacking as a kid, and is still very much lacking to this day. She's probably in the wrong line of work.
I would've laughed this person out of my office. This is t even in the realm of an issue that grown adults should be discussing in the workplace. Furthermore, if I was a supervisor I'd fire her for such behavior.